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Tuesday, September 30, 2014

Knicks Morning News (Friday, Jan 20 2012)

  • [New York Post] Stoudemire, D’Antoni say Knicks must speed up the offense (Fri, 20 Jan 2012 05:31:35 -0500)
    Amar’e Stoudemire called Knicks coach Mike D’Antoni “an offensive genius” and implored his teammates yesterday to buy into the coach’s famed speed-ball system.
    As the Knicks bad luck would have it, the player needing to change most was absent during yesterday’s offensive-intensive practice. The slumping Carmelo…

  • [New York Post] Knicks should make run at Tinsley (Fri, 20 Jan 2012 05:14:29 -0500)
    Kobe Bryant recently “pinpointedâ? Jamaal Tinsley as an ideal conductor of offensive arrangements, exactly what the Lakers (and Knicks) distinctly lack.
    While there’s really no reason to solicit a second opinion on Tinsley once Bryant expressed his considered “viewpointâ?, it’s germane to note the third-string Jazz orchestra leader…

  • [New York Post] It’s reality: Nuggets the team with a TV show (Fri, 20 Jan 2012 05:05:24 -0500)
    NBA TV’s reality series has chosen to spotlight Danilo Gallinari and Timofey Mozgov instead of Carmelo Anthony, Amar’e Stoudemire and Tyson Chandler.
    The Nuggets, who visit the Garden tomorrow in what stands as a referendum of last February’s Anthony blockbuster, was announced yesterday as the club that…

  • [New York Daily News] Nuggets walk away winners after Knicks trade for Melo (Fri, 20 Jan 2012 07:06:48 GMT)
    In fairness, the Denver Nuggets were a playoff team long before Dolan orchestrated the Carmelo Anthony trade. But since the team’s owner ordered Donnie Walsh to gut the Knicks to bring Anthony to the Garden, the Nuggets have continued on an upward trajectory, while the Knicks find themselves these days with â??Melo often grinding the offense to a halt and Amar’e Stoudemire very likely longing for the days he was king of New York.

  • [New York Daily News] Knicks desperately seek ‘O’ (Fri, 20 Jan 2012 04:06:47 GMT)
    After practice on Thursday, Mike D’Antoni again used the “crisisâ? to describe what the Knicks are in these days. That’s as good a description as any, since the Knicks’ offense is in chaos, despite having Carmelo Anthony and Amar’e Stoudemire on the same team. Or, maybe because of it.

  • [New York Times] Even Ailing, James Leads Heat Past Lakers (Fri, 20 Jan 2012 05:23:04 GMT)
    LeBron James shook off flu-like symptoms to score 31 points, and the Miami Heat topped the visiting Los Angeles Lakers, 98-87.

  • [New York Times] Bryant Struggling With Brown’s Blueprint (Fri, 20 Jan 2012 06:22:02 GMT)
    Kobe Bryant confessed he was finding life after Phil Jackson “strange” after the Los Angeles Lakers fell to another road defeat at the Miami Heat on Thursday.

  • [New York Times] Marion’s 22 Points Lift Mavericks Over Jazz 94-91 (Fri, 20 Jan 2012 06:30:10 GMT)
    Shawn Marion scored a season-high 22 points, including a late layup, as the Dallas Mavericks defeated the Utah Jazz 94-91 Thursday night to snap a two-game losing streak and cool off the league’s hottest team.

  • [New York Times] Feverish LeBron Helps Heat Scorch Listless Lakers (Fri, 20 Jan 2012 05:34:07 GMT)
    LeBron James shrugged off flu-like symptoms to deliver a game-winning 31 points as the Miami Heat beat Kobe Bryant and the L.A. Lakers 98-87 in the clash of the NBA’s two biggest names on Thursday.

  • [New York Times] LeBron Outguns Kobe as Heat Burn Lakers (Fri, 20 Jan 2012 04:24:52 GMT)
    LeBron James shrugged off flu to deliver a game-winning 31 points as the Miami Heat beat Kobe Bryant and the L.A. Lakers 98-87 in the clash of the NBA’s two biggest names on Thursday.

  • [New York Times] Martin Scores 32 in Houston’s 90-88 OT Win (Fri, 20 Jan 2012 03:57:06 GMT)
    Kevin Martin scored 27 of his 32 points in the first half, Samuel Dalembert grabbed a season-high 17 rebounds and the Houston Rockets survived one of the worst fourth quarters in team history to beat the New Orleans Hornets 90-88 in overtime on Thursday night.

  • [New York Times] All-Star Westbrook Signs Extension With Thunder (Fri, 20 Jan 2012 00:57:02 GMT)
    The Oklahoma City Thunder signed All-Star point guard Russell Westbrook to a multiyear contract extension on Thursday.

  • [New York Times] Off the Dribble: Nagging Injury Wave Hits N.B.A. Stars (Fri, 20 Jan 2012 02:30:08 GMT)
    The list of who’s ailing reads like the All-Star ballot — Kobe Bryant, Carmelo Anthony, Dirk Nowitzki, Chris Paul — but it is hard to pinpoint the exact reason for the rash of injuries.

  • [New York Times] On Basketball: For Knicks, Celebrated Trade, Celebrated No More (Fri, 20 Jan 2012 07:30:12 GMT)
    As the Knicks prepare to play the visiting Denver Nuggets, the blockbuster trade for Carmelo Anthony that redefined both teams is under renewed scrutiny.

  • 88 comments on “Knicks Morning News (Friday, Jan 20 2012)

    1. Z-man

      Nice piece by Beck, as usual.

      Going to the game tonight with another KBer, hope Shump continues where he left off and Amare and Melo come out of their respective funks. Still think BD will have a major impact on the quality of the offense.

      PS love your avatar, Robert, I too am sickened by the needless switching. Mismatches should be avoided as much as possible, yet our defensive strategy has them occurring on nearly every halfcourt set. I think the decent defensive ranking is misleading, and eventually will get worse as teams get better at exploiting thee mismatches and spreading the floor against us, especially those like Orlando that have good 3-pt shooters backed up by a strong post presence.

    2. Eternal OptiKnist

      So, I was not insanely thrilled about the Melo trade when we made it last year…he just gave me douche-chills..the type of guy that probably gets along great with other stars of the league but doesn’t respect any other player he deems beneath him. Consider me a typical New Yorker who falls in love with the home-grown player, or a Knicks fan so starved for good basketball that the shade over .500 we achieved last year was like a championship. I’ve always said that he could have gotten NY AND we could have kept most of our beloved players by him simply saying “hey, listen…i don’t care about the lockout…i’m blessed to make so much money playing a game that i love when there are so many less fortunate then me struggling right now…so i don’t care about losing money under the new CBA” The result would have been that Denver would think he’d be willing to go to free agency, Walsh would have maintained his leverage AND we would have gotten him for a bag of balls a la Pau Gasol…Melo is happy, he gets his money and we get him for very little. But he’s not that smart..go ahead and watch his MTV cribs episode on youtube…i dare you…chilling (granted i’m sure he’s grown up a bit…but wow). Anyway, enough digression. The point i want to make is..even if we didnt give up a ton, we’d still be where we are today (maybe the bench would be a little better) because he refuses to buy in to the team concept. And to be honest, although we loved him…you can make the argument that Gallinaris grow on trees. Melo is hands-down a superior talent…unfortunately, he’s also a superior douche. After all this….believe it or not…this is an optimistic post. If there’s one thing this town can do, its humble you. You can feel it when the crowd boos…I’m telling you guys, he can feel it. He tried to prove them wrong by just staying the course and continuing the chuck-show. He WILL get it..he WILL buy in and we’ll be on our way. A PG would help, but this…

    3. Eternal OptiKnist

      So i ran out of characters…:) A point guard would be very helpful, but this is about HIM. Even if Bob Cousy was here…the team will take the identity of its leader and he has clearly executed a hostile takeover in that regard. When he decides to buy in, and HE WILL, we will get much better. Why will he buy in you ask? His ego. For all his ego, you can see the insecurity in his eyes…he’s always known that he wasn’t doing it like Kobe…like Lebron…like D-Wade. But in Denver, they coddled him…that truth was hidden, he didnt have to deal with it, they felt too lucky to have him. This ain’t Denver…it’s only been few months but this town is a short cab-ride away from completely turning on him (the cab arrives with a Saturday loss). He will be exposed nightly on 34th and 7th and his ego…will guide him to the conclusion that if he wants the success of Kobe, D-Wade, Lebron and to really be regarded in their company…he has to win..and the only way to do that is buy in. This town is too smart to go for the ‘holding-your-wrist-after-every-missed-shot’ bullshyt. The ‘i’m-a-hero-playing-hurt’ did not sell. We may have a lame-duck coach (who i believe in) who is having a tough time subtly implying that the owner’s new man-crush is fuc!ing everything up, but there are no lame duck fans..our contract is infinite and we can say whatever we want. HE WILL COME AROUND.

    4. Eternal OptiKnist

      Z: …or he’ll just start eating Vaseline.

      That was one of the top 5 funniest things I’ve ever heard. I sharted laughing.

    5. Eternal OptiKnist

      Z: …or he’ll just start eating Vaseline.

      And sadly if the Melo experiment doesn’t go well we’re in for a media shitstorm that will make his value plummet and we’re in barney….barney…barney rubble…TROUBLE!

    6. Bruno Almeida

      Z:
      …or he’ll just start eating Vaseline.

      that’s the funniest / saddest / most awesome post I’ve seen in a long time.

      well, we still have at least 4 more years with Carmelo, and we’ll see what he’s made of… he’ll get plenty of criticism and he’ll surely react.

      he’ll either do a Marbury and become a crazy, self-absorbed dude who’ll be one of the main culprits of a disastrous debacle;

      or he’ll figure it out, look critically at his own game and see that he’s much more efficient (and his team is much better) when he cuts down on the isos and plays within the flow of an offense.

      I tend to believe that Anthony is a smart guy with a lot of guts, who will hate losing in the big lights of NYC, so my guess is that he’ll eventually understand that he has to become a better player for the sake of his team.

      I just hope it happens sooner rather than later.

    7. hoolahoop

      Eternal OptiKnist:
      So i ran out of characters…:)A point guard would be very helpful, but this is about HIM.Even if Bob Cousy was here…the team will take the identity of its leader and he has clearly executed a hostile takeover in that regard.When he decides to buy in, and HE WILL, we will get much better.Why will he buy in you ask?His ego.For all his ego, you can see the insecurity in his eyes…he’s always known that he wasn’t doing it like Kobe…like Lebron…like D-Wade.But in Denver, they coddled him…that truth was hidden, he didnt have to deal with it, they felt too lucky to have him.This ain’t Denver…it’s only been few months but this town is a short cab-ride away from completely turning on him (the cab arrives with a Saturday loss).He will be exposed nightly on 34th and 7th and his ego…will guide him to the conclusion that if he wants the success of Kobe, D-Wade, Lebron and to really be regarded in their company…he has to win..and the only way to do that is buy in.This town is too smart to go for the ‘holding-your-wrist-after-every-missed-shot’ bullshyt.The ‘i’m-a-hero-playing-hurt’ did not sell.We may have a lame-duck coach (who i believe in) who is having a tough time subtly implying that the owner’s new man-crush is fuc!ing everything up, but there are no lame duck fans..our contract is infinite and we can say whatever we want.HE WILL COME AROUND.

      Great post!
      Unfortunately, I don’t think he’ll change while he’s here. When he leaves for another team and he’s not “the man” he may start playing great team ball. With an older body, diminished physical skills, he’ll become one of the best players ever.
      That’s the knicks legacy. We’re a cursed bunch.

    8. Eternal OptiKnist

      Bruno Almeida: he’ll either do a Marbury and become a crazy, self-absorbed dude who’ll be one of the main culprits of a disastrous debacle

      As much as i blame Marbury (and rightfully so) for so much of what happened over the last decade, i must admit that poor management and the undisciplined environement has shoulders alot of blame for his demise. Isiah is gone and thats good, but we still have JD and the Straight Shot. The Rangers coach appears to be strong enough to insulate his team from him – see Tortorella’s posgame comments after the Predator’s game…wow, but we’ll see how long he has his job after that…i suspect he’ll be ok, that was true leadership and the team is doing well…and oh yea, most of his focus is on the Knicks. I’m not sure if Dolan is stupid or if his actions are a product of his demons (alcoholism, temper, daddy issues, etc). I can at least see why he doesn’t speak much..just awful. I’m sure a big reason whay Lebron was not impressed. Companies take the identity of their owners (especially active ones), and thats not a good thing in this case. Donnie was our insulation, but he got run out. But, hey, he’s my owner and not going anywhere so i support him and hope he does well. I do believe he wants to win. And oh yea…Anthony is not smart, but i agree that the big lights of NYC will get him to do what it takes to win. I believe he cares about winning and cares about his legacy enough to want to do what it takes and listen to reason…but smart, he is not. I always believed that we’d come out of the gate weak after the lockout so I’m not judging too much yet, even though my rants suggest I am! :)

    9. taggart4800

      I know i’m most likely on my own in ‘La-la’ Land, there is a pun in there somewhere, but I am not all that worried about the Knicks. Sure they are not going to contend and may even struggle to get in the top half of the east, but does that matter. We are 18 games into a crazy season, there are some pretty shocking losses about. Things will regress to the mean and by Mid to late February we will see how we are.
      Look at the positives, stay with me, injuries and necessity have afforded two rookies quality minutes. In a normal season they would have been stifled by MDA, however they have had to play minutes and will be of some actual use come playoff time. So its really just…. one… positive…but still, not to be sniffed at.
      There will be a game, in the not to distant future, where the bench (Fields and Douglas) shakes of the heeby jeebies and start raining buckets from range. This will reset the sizable deficit in confidence and we will move forward. Mark my words

    10. Eternal OptiKnist

      hoolahoop: Great post!Unfortunately, I don’t think he’ll change while he’s here. When he leaves for another team and he’s not “the man” he may start playing great team ball. With an older body, diminished physical skills, he’ll become one of the best players ever.That’s the knicks legacy. We’re a cursed bunch.

      I think he’ll change while here…it might not be for this coach, but I believe he will change. One of two things will happen, he will respond to the ‘you-blew-up-our-team-to-get-here’ pressure buying in to the team concept so we can win or, like “Z” said, he completely wilts and begins consuming petroleum products. If he doesn’t buy in soon though, it will cost D’antoni his job…which i almost feel like he wants (scapegoat?). I hope i’m wrong about that. I’m a defense 1st guy so i don’t like that about D’antoni, but he’s earned a fair shot with a full team this year..even relented on the defensive coordinator..he’s bought in…its Melo’s turn.

    11. Eternal OptiKnist

      taggart4800: I know i’m most likely on my own in ‘La-la’ Land, there is a pun in there somewhere, but I am not all that worried about the Knicks. Sure they are not going to contend and may even struggle to get in the top half of the east, but does that matter. We are 18 games into a crazy season, there are some pretty shocking losses about. Things will regress to the mean and by Mid to late February we will see how we are.Look at the positives, stay with me, injuries and necessity have afforded two rookies quality minutes. In a normal season they would have been stifled by MDA, however they have had to play minutes and will be of some actual use come playoff time. So its really just…. one… positive…but still, not to be sniffed at.There will be a game, in the not to distant future, where the bench (Fields and Douglas) shakes of the heeby jeebies and start raining buckets from range. This will reset the sizable deficit in confidence and we will move forward. Mark my words

      Amen brother, well said. I’ve got my problems with Melo but there are other problems with this team that are lockout/no camp-oriented. Too bad the Denver game came so early.

    12. Brian Cronin (@Brian_Cronin)

      I really don’t get why anyone has to denigrate Melo’s character to point out that his style of play has negatively affected Amar’e (and to an extent, Fields). He can be a poor fit without having to call him dumb or otherwise personally insult the guy. Dude’s just a person, same as us. I don’t think his style of play fits well with the current team and I certainly am frustrated by his over-reliance on isos and his insistence on trying to shoot himself out of a slump when his injured wrist keeps him from making a good percentage of his shots, but that doesn’t mean anyone should personally insult him. Just criticize his game.

    13. Eternal OptiKnist

      Hey Brian. I know alot of what i said sounds not so nice, but he is a celebrity so he does open himself up to multiple levels of criticism. Now this is going to sound bad and mean, but what i said about him being not smart and kind of a douche are really what i think. I’m not insulting him for the sake of insulting him. It’s not calling someone stupid or an azzhole because they disagreed with me or i just didnt like them (which i’ve done and know the difference). It is my honest and unvarnashed opinion that he is not smart and is a douche AND it has a direct affect on the team…which makes the observation all the more relevant. But i did say he is uber-talented and the sky is the limit for him and this team…as he goes, we go. I think thats a pretty big complement…please give me credit.

    14. CapB

      I think for this team to change they need to change the coach. D’Antoni is not a coach who commands the respect to change nor does he command respect from players. What makes a guy like Phil Jackson or a Joe Torre so successful is getting the respect from their players and controlling egos, not necessarily strategy or X’s and O’s

    15. hoolahoop

      All living things should be treated with kindness and respect, but c’mon, this is a message board discussing uber-celebrity athletes. I think we can take the gloves off when discussing the players amongst ourselves. It’s not like he yelled out at Melo during the game that he’s dumb. More important, we should treat each other in this forum with respect – no ifs, ands, or buts.

    16. DS

      It’s such a shame that we’ll prob. never get see a Knicks team with some talented players run an offense the way D’Antoni likes to. Chandler and Carmelo just do not have games like Joe Johnson and Boris Diaw. I guess there’s a flicker of hope Baron Davis can withhold the ball from Carmelo to avoid slow, isolation plays and can run a PnR better than Shumpert, but I won’t hold my breath.

      I say let D’Antoni go to Charlotte or the Clippers and get a coach who will get Baron, STAT, and Carmelo to play some D and see how deep we can go in the playoffs in the next 2 seasons.

    17. Eternal OptiKnist

      Robert Silverman (@BobSaietta): There’s no way of knowing what kind of person Melo or anyone in the nba is.

      Heya Bob…i remember this piece vividly. Agreed. I don’t “know” what kind of person he is. I can only judge by the evidence I have before me. But people make make judgements about others every day…you do, i do…right or wrong, we do. If you have a daughter and you meet her new boyfriend for the first time you will most certainly develop opinions on him before he opens his mouth. In that situation, you have the opportunity to probe deeper and make ‘better’ judgements based on more data. Hell, you don’t know what Troy had going on that day, maybe he’s on medication he forgot to take…maybe he didn’t like something the kids said to him…maybe he’s part dog. Now i agree, that you’re data that he is an ‘asshat’ is much stronger than my ‘douche ‘argument for Melo…I’ve never been within 5 feet of the guy. But either way, we’re judging someone’s character based on what we see (in this case for me…see and read). Like i said, i honestly believe he has the traits i described and that they have a direct affect on the team…i didnt bring them up for any desire at poking random fun. That being said, you couldn’t find a person happier than me to be wrong about him (except maybe his coach, teammates, assistant coaches, scouts, ball-boys, customer service operators to name a few). Ok, i’m being silly…but really..i am pulling for him in a big, big way!!! I want him to succeed.

    18. hoolahoop

      Robert Silverman (@BobSaietta):
      I agree with Brian. There’s no way of knowing what kind of person Melo or anyone in the nba is. Sorry, Opti, but you’re assuming a lot based on scant evidence

      Look at my run in with Troy Murphy, for example: http://knickerblogger.net/fear-and-loathing-with-troy-murphy/

      I read the post you linked. That was really well observed, well written, and insightful.
      One day I’ll tell my story(s) of being in the knicks locker room with the boys after a game. Very interesting.

    19. EB

      On the one hand our offense is abysmal, our good defense is an illusion and we have all our money tied up in two non-stars.

      On the other hand, SHUMP SHUMP!

    20. jon abbey

      not only do I agree that Melo is a bit on the dumb side, I think it’s absurd for anyone to question the relevance of that here.

      when you repeatedly take 22 foot jumpers with a hand in your face with lots of time left on the shot clock, it has something to do with intelligence, sorry. also his decision making is consistently slow, which is one reason he holds the ball endlessly, but the play I always think of was at the end of game 2 in the playoffs last year, Boston inbounding up by 1 with 4 seconds left. they threw it into the backcourt, and it took forever for Melo to react as if he’d forgotten the rules or total brainlock or something, ball game.

      so, yes, I think he’s of below average intelligence (basketball at least) for a NBA superstar, both true and relevant, unfortunately.

    21. Eternal OptiKnist

      DS: Would the Lakers be dumb enough to take ‘Melo for Pau?

      I’m not giving up on Melo (unless its for Dwight Howard, lol). The man has too much talent. Like my opinion on D’antoni, he deserves a legit shot and 14 games is just not enough.

    22. Robert Silverman (@BobSaietta)

      Z-man:

      PS love your avatar, Robert, I too am sickened by the needless switching.

      Any KB’ers who want to joing the Stop Switching movement can snag the avatar here: http://twitpic.com/88zqyr

      And if you’d like to sport it whilst commenting on KB, get yet avatar up here: https://en.gravatar.com/

      TDM:
      Mark Stein just tweeted that Devin Harris has been made available by Utah.Are there any scraps the Knicks could cobble together to get him?

      https://twitter.com/#!/ESPNSteinLine

      Not w/Harris’ 10mil salary.

    23. Eternal OptiKnist

      I was actually referring to him being not smart in the way he engineered his way out of Denver (not on the court). He just seemed so proud of getting the contract before the lockout..and I don’t disagree, it’s good business to get as much $$ as possible, he could have HAD BOTH the trade to the Knicks and a full team to join..but the way he and Dolan overplayed their hands was so comical…you can tell they must have been patting themselves on the back in Vegas while getting fleeced. I don’t think he’s dumb on the court…I think thats ego. I could be wrong, but i hope I’m not.

    24. TDM

      Robert Silverman (@BobSaietta): Not w/Harris’ 10mil salary.

      His contract runs through 2012-13, and its not $10M.

      Besides, even if it was $10M, if the Knicks could swing it, we are in desparate need for what he brings to the table. Last season, he tallied 15 pts, 7 dimes and less than 3 tos per game.

      Chances are the Lakers will grab him to replace Fisher, but if we had a chance to snag him, I think you’d have to consider it.

      Salt Lake Trib is not reporting same: http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/blogsjazznotes/53338995-62/harris-utah-jazz-points.html.csp

    25. JK47

      D-Will is possibly looking to get out of NJ/Brooklyn:

      “Deron Williams’ first choice is to stay with the Nets and to build something special in Brooklyn, but if it doesn’t work out with his current team, his short list of desirable destinations includes the Mavericks, the Knicks and the Lakers, according to sources close to the situation.”

      Looks like it’s Dwight Howard or bust for the Nets, and if they can’t pull that off it just makes way too much sense to flip Williams for either Melo or Stat, especially if NYK continues to struggle.

    26. Z-man

      Z: …or he’ll just start eating Vaseline.

      Don’t knock it…on a Ritz cracker with capers, it’s quite good!

    27. Robert Silverman (@BobSaietta)

      Eternal OptiKnist:
      I was actually referring to him being not smart in the way he engineered his way out of Denver (not on the court).He just seemed so proud of getting the contract before the lockout..and I don’t disagree, it’s good business to get as much $$ as possible, he could have HAD BOTH the trade to the Knicks and a full team to join..but the way he and Dolan overplayed their hands was so comical…you can tell they must have been patting themselves on the back in Vegas while getting fleeced.I don’t think he’s dumb on the court…I think thats ego.I could be wrong, but i hope I’m not.

      Fair enough. I think given the uncertainties of what the CBA would look like (franchise tags, a hard cap at 50 mil, etc.) you could just as easily argue that even though the Knicks overpaid, there was a risk that they wouldn’t be able to sign Melo as an FA at all. Making the deal last year was the only way to ensure he’d be a Knick.

      I’m not saying I disgree w/you. For my money, even w/the risk, Dolan botched the deal. It was colossally dumb. But “Seemed” is the operative word in your post above. I’m all for debating how the players function on the court but I’m not interested speculating about what they’re like as people or extrapolating opinions based on press conferences.

    28. Robert Silverman (@BobSaietta)

      TDM: .

      Harris makes 9.3 million this year. Here’s a trade that works under the cap. It’s Shump, Douglas, Balkman, Fields, Walker, and Jordan for Harris. We can’t trade a first rounder till 2018. http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=8xxskgc

      I can’t see Utah doing that, can you?

      Or you’re talking about bigger deal involving either Stat or Melo with Jefferson or Millsap coming back. W/Utah in rebuilding mode, that seems highly unlikely as well.

    29. Jake S.

      As Brian has proposed, I think a deal that centers around Deron Williams and Melo makes the most sense if the Knicks decide to blow this thing up early. The Nets are guaranteed a star for their move to Brooklyn and the Knicks have a point guard that will make this D’Antoni team go. They can probably even find a way to sneak Baron into the backcourt with Deron if the former comes back in any kind of meaningful way.

    30. Robert Silverman (@BobSaietta)

      Jake S.:
      As Brian has proposed, I think a deal that centers around Deron Williams and Melo makes the most sense if the Knicks decide to blow this thing up early. The Nets are guaranteed a star for their move to Brooklyn and the Knicks have a point guard that will make this D’Antoni team go. They can probably even find a way to sneak Baron into the backcourt with Deron if the former comes back in any kind of meaningful way.

      It makes total basketball sense. Here’s the problem: w/the Nets moving to Brooklyn, a big trade between the two teams is all but impossible b/c neither franchise is going to risk it failing miserably and having the deal rubbed in their faces, PR-wise.

      There’s a reason that the Knicks and the Nets haven’t made a major trade since the Maurice Lucas for Ray Williams swap in 1981. Just like the Yanks/Mets, Rangers/Islanders and even Giants/Jets, the NY area teams do NOT do deals w/one another.

    31. Jake S.

      Not to take this sad, impatient fantasy too far, but the Knicks could also slide Fields to Small Forward, where he probably should be playing anyway.

    32. Eternal OptiKnist

      Robert Silverman (@BobSaietta): Fair enough. I think given the uncertainties of what the CBA would look like (franchise tags, a hard cap at 50 mil, etc.) you could just as easily argue that even though the Knicks overpaid, there was a risk that they wouldn’t be able to sign Melo as an FA at all. Making the deal last year was the only way to ensure he’d be a Knick.
      I’m not saying I disgree w/you. For my money, even w/the risk, Dolan botched the deal. It was colossally dumb. But “Seemed” is the operative word in your post above. I’m all for debating how the players function on the court but I’m not interested speculating about what they’re like as people or extrapolating opinions based on press conferences.

      Now I’m going to talk out of the other side of my mouth a bit, lol. Melo put Dolan in a bad spot. He made it so public how important the looming lockout was. I remember at one point during the height of the trade speculation him saying publicly something to the effect of “my first order of business is getting this extension”. He gave away ALL donnie’s leverage. Then he further trounced on it by meeting with the Nets in Vegas..he forced Jim’s hand. I prescribed in my post way above how he coulf have had his cake and eat it too…a trade to the Knicks with a pre-lockout contract, the Knicks and a FULL team. Now even if he didn’t follow that, he coulf have at least kept his mouth SHUT! That is not smart in my opinion. Maybe the language I used in trying to be funny made me come off as mean-spirited…which really isn’t me. But what I saw that happened is bad poker…not smart and that’s why I think Donnie is gone. Further, I do think he’s a selfish player and its having a negative effect on the team. I hope and think he will change as a result of his ego and desire to win.

    33. Eternal OptiKnist

      I think that’s a better way to express what I think is a legitimate opinion. Keep in mind my whole point in posting is to point out that his ego and desire to win (and win with the knicks) will trump all and he’ll do what it takes to make us successful. Go TEAM, go KNICKS!

    34. Jake S.

      Now I can’t get this Deron Williams trade idea out of my head. It just makes so much sense for all parties involved. I blame the Knicks for my childlike impatience.

    35. Robert Silverman (@BobSaietta)

      Jake S.:
      Now I can’t get this Deron Williams trade idea out of my head. It just makes so much sense for all parties involved. I blame the Knicks for my childlike impatience.

      Maybe this’ll help. If it does happen, NJ will want Shumpert in the deal and Dolan will cave. Still thinking about it?

    36. ess-dog

      I think basically Shumpert and Jerome Jordan for old man Harris is a great deal for Utah, but should we do it? Harris hasn’t been good since ’08-’09. Of course, Baron hasn’t been good since ’07-’08…

      The Melo/Deron swap does make sense if Deron won’t re-sign with Brooklyn, but I can’t imagine it happening in this universe.

      Yep, we’re stuck with (hopefully) Baron/Shump/Fields/Melo/Stat/Chandler this year and there’s really absolutely no reason that core can’t be an above average team. Slow start be damned, if this team doesn’t have an above .500 record come playoff time, D’Antoni should resign.

    37. Jake S.

      Robert Silverman (@BobSaietta): Maybe this’ll help. If it does happen, NJ will want Shumpert in the deal and Dolan will cave. Still thinking about it?

      Yes! Anything for a quick fix! I NEED it.

      (Locks himself in his apartment with separate buckets from feces, urine and vomitus a la Renton in Trainspotting).

    38. MKinLA

      Why would you trade Melo for D Will when you could trade Amare and get out from under the injury risk?

      Melo + Chandler + D Will is a great core with the right (defensive-minded coach).

    39. Jake S.

      MKinLA:
      Why would you trade Melo for D Will when you could trade Amare and get out from under the injury risk?

      Melo + Chandler + D Will is a great core with the right (defensive-minded coach).

      Um, would you want Amar’e’s uninsured, max contract? STAT ain’t goin’ nowherez.

    40. MKinLA

      If the Nets have D Will leaving them, with no draft picks to re-build (because they traded all of them to Utah), they aren’t really going to be in a position to negotiate. Their owner is sufficiently rich that the lack of insurance won’t scare them off – one of the few teams in the league you could say that about.

      D Will has already publicly moved to limit the pool of potential bidders to the Lakers, Mavs and us (http://espn.go.com/new-york/nba/story/_/id/7484258/new-jersey-nets-deron-williams-list-teams-go-to). From those teams, an Amare deal might be the most palatable, unless the Lakers are willing to offer Pau.

    41. LamontWallace

      I honestly feel like we as New York Knicks fans need to stop wanting to trade the team every time we have a bad stretch of games.

      Let us not forget that Amare Stoudemire is notorious for bad starts and it goes without mentioning that this time last year, on a game by game basis, the Knicks had the same exact record.

      I honestly feel like we’re running in place and until Mike D’Antoni has a team in place that’s not moving anywhere—because I’m sure we’ve made more roster changes than any team in the league —we will continue to go down the same path, on the treadmill of endless roster changes and falsely high expectations, season after season.

      We got a great team, not even just our big three, cats like; Landry Fields, Toney Douglas, Bill Walker, Jorts, Shump these guys are gamers when everything starts clicking we got a dangerous team. Let’s not let trigger-happy GM-ing ruin our potential this year either.

    42. Brian Cronin (@Brian_Cronin)

      I honestly feel like we as New York Knicks fans need to stop wanting to trade the team every time we have a bad stretch of games.

      I wanted to trade Melo for a star point guard before the season started. It just makes so much sense. And like I mentioned when I brought the trade up initially, since D-Will is playing not so great and Melo is having a good year, the Knicks should be able to get D-Will plus an asset (I think Morrow would be the guy to target).

    43. Jake S.

      MKinLA:
      If the Nets have D Will leaving them, with no draft picks to re-build (because they traded all of them to Utah), they aren’t really going to be in a position to negotiate. Their owner is sufficiently rich that the lack of insurance won’t scare them off – one of the few teams in the league you could say that about.

      D Will has already publicly moved to limit the pool of potential bidders to the Lakers, Mavs and us (http://espn.go.com/new-york/nba/story/_/id/7484258/new-jersey-nets-deron-williams-list-teams-go-to). From those teams, an Amare deal might be the most palatable, unless the Lakers are willing to offer Pau.

      Prok is impulsive, so I could be wrong, but I think the Nets would be more inclined to sit tight than commit all that money to Stoudemire without any real pieces around him.

    44. Jake S.

      Brian Cronin (@Brian_Cronin): I wanted to trade Melo for a star point guard before the season started. It just makes so much sense. And like I mentioned when I brought the trade up initially, since D-Will is playing not so great and Melo is having a good year, the Knicks should be able to get D-Will plus an asset (I think Morrow would be the guy to target).

      What he said.

    45. Brian Cronin (@Brian_Cronin)

      Prok is impulsive, so I could be wrong, but I think the Nets would be more inclined to sit tight than commit all that money to Stoudemire without any real pieces around him.

      Agreed. They would take Melo because he’s someone they would want to spend the cap space on. If they can’t get someone that they’d actually willingly spend the cap space on, they’d be better off just letting D-Will walk and try to sign someone else in the future with the cap space that they’d just be wasting on STAT.

    46. Z-man

      Only a chump would dump Shump. Dude’s gonna be a superstar. He is already one of the best defensive guards in the NBA. Give him some time with Baron to work on his O.

      Harris has the B-ball equivalent of a glass jaw. Even healthy, he’s not that good. Why would we trade anything of value for him until we see what we have in Baron? STAY CALM!! ALL IS WELL!!

    47. JK47

      The Nets are possibly the one team in the NBA that is more starved for “stars” than we are. If Deron Williams walks without NJN getting something in return it would have to go down as one of the worst trades in NBA history. If they can’t pull off a deal for Dwight Howard, they are royally screwed.

      I would be irate if I were a Nets fan– they gave up Derrick Favors, an unprotected lottery pick that became Enes Kanter and another partially protected lottery pick in this year’s draft for 1 1/3 seasons of an unmotivated, unproductive Deron Williams. Favors and Kanter are 19 and 20 respectively and both look like potential beasts. Now it looks like Deron is putting the gun to their head and killing their leverage.

    48. The Honorable Cock Jowles

      LamontWallace:
      I honestly feel like we as New York Knicks fans need to stop wanting to trade the team every time we have a bad stretch of games.

      Let us not forget that Amare Stoudemire is notorious for bad starts and it goes without mentioning that this time last year, on a game by game basis, the Knicks had the same exact record.

      I honestly feel like we’re running in place and until Mike D’Antoni has a team in place that’s not moving anywhere—because I’m sure we’ve made more roster changes than any team in the league —we will continue to go down the same path, on the treadmill of endless roster changes and falsely high expectations, season after season.

      I think you’re being far too optimistic.

      Many people didn’t want Carmelo or Amar’e to begin with, and for all the talk of a deferred “gelling,” it doesn’t look like it’s going to happen anytime soon.

      No one’s advocating trading Carmelo for 50 cents on the dollar (nor is it likely that he’ll EVER be traded, at least not until he’s expiring), but I would advocate a trip to Basketball Reference to check how many possessions the Knicks have played so far this season. After 2300 possessions, should we start calling it as it is? Or keep deferring judgment to a time in which it will be more “accurate?” It’s not like these guys are learning to play basketball for the first time, and it’s not like teams like the Sixers have some sort of edge on the Knicks as far as preseason preparation goes. I’m sure you’ve all played pick-up basketball games. Even though they’re usually of a shoot-first, set-picks-never sort, you can play ball with four guys you’ve never played with before. And yeah, the NBA is a different thing, but we shouldn’t be waiting on our “All-NBA” PF to start playing like one. He should be doing it now.

    49. Z

      Brian Cronin (@Brian_Cronin): I wanted to trade Melo for a star point guard before the season started. It just makes so much sense.

      Yeah, but that star point guard was Chris Paul, right? A trade that probably could have happened if we’d offered it to NO. Trading with the Nets, as mentioned above, isn’t likely to happen, no matter how much sense it makes.

      I think Melo is going to be here for 4 more years, whether we like it or not.

    50. MKinLA

      The Nets letting D Will go doesn’t make sense. Who would sign with the Nets with no draft picks and no talent on the roster?

      They would be in almost the same position we were in pre-Stat… loads of money with no one to spend it on. The only difference is they’re moving into a new city and need someone to make the face of their marketing campaign. While we all know the truth about Stat now, he’s still perceived as an all-star – just the kind of guy to help market the new stadium.

    51. LamontWallace

      Trading either Stoudemire or Carmelo would equal to giving up on the season this year.

      It’s a shortened season with no practices and we’d be bringing in an outside guy with no experience in the system and just came back from an injury.

      It makes absolutely no sense to me. I think the one thing this team needs is just a little stability. Teams like Chicago, Oklahoma, Portland, San Antonio, they were not built by trading everybody and starting a new group every season.

      If we keep our core guys it will work out. There’s no way in hell that a team with both Stoudemire and Carmelo can struggle like this for an entire season.

    52. Brian Cronin (@Brian_Cronin)

      The Nets letting D Will go doesn’t make sense. Who would sign with the Nets with no draft picks and no talent on the roster?

      They would be in almost the same position we were in pre-Stat… loads of money with no one to spend it on. The only difference is they’re moving into a new city and need someone to make the face of their marketing campaign. While we all know the truth about Stat now, he’s still perceived as an all-star – just the kind of guy to help market the new stadium.

      I don’t think STAT is perceived as an All-Star right now. He certainly isn’t making the All-Star team this year, for instance.

    53. Brian Cronin (@Brian_Cronin)

      Yeah, but that star point guard was Chris Paul, right? A trade that probably could have happened if we’d offered it to NO. Trading with the Nets, as mentioned above, isn’t likely to happen, no matter how much sense it makes.

      I think Melo is going to be here for 4 more years, whether we like it or not.

      Yeah, Chris Paul but only because I figured D-Will wasn’t available (well, that and I like Paul more than D-Will). If D-Will is available, then I’d like that trade. Although, sure, New Jersey might not be willing to deal with New York, which is too bad.

    54. Brian Cronin (@Brian_Cronin)

      Trading either Stoudemire or Carmelo would equal to giving up on the season this year.

      It’s a shortened season with no practices and we’d be bringing in an outside guy with no experience in the system and just came back from an injury.

      It makes absolutely no sense to me. I think the one thing this team needs is just a little stability. Teams like Chicago, Oklahoma, Portland, San Antonio, they were not built by trading everybody and starting a new group every season.

      If we keep our core guys it will work out. There’s no way in hell that a team with both Stoudemire and Carmelo can struggle like this for an entire season.

      Deron Williams would have little problem adjusting to D’Antoni’s system, and everyone else knows how to play it already (I guess Chandler might not technically, but does anyone think Tyson Chandler is a guy who has trouble adjusting to systems on offense?)

    55. Ben R

      Amare with his terrible contract reminds me of the kind of players Isiah would trade for, overpaid former all-stars on the downside of their prime getting worse fast. Amare still has some cache but his stock league wide is really low. He got passed up for even trying out for the olympic squad. We need to trade him as soon as possible. We might be able to trick another team into pulling an Isiah and actually get an asset but by this time next year he will be viewed as a Rashard Lewis, Gilbert Arenas level albatross of a contract.

      I say offer him to utah for Harris and either Millsap or Jefferson, offer him to Denver for Miller and something, offer him somewhere fast because he will soon become untradable and it will be ugly in a couple years.

      As for Melo I would trade him for Williams but first I would push hard for Howard. There is no way Orlando gets a better offer than Melo and Howard is the second best player in the NBA.

    56. JK47

      @67

      Utah is not taking Stat and doesn’t need him; they have two excellent young forwards in Kanter and Favors and they need Stat like they need a hole in the head.

    57. Ben R

      JK47:
      @67

      Utah is not taking Stat and doesn’t need him; they have two excellent young forwards in Kanter and Favors and they need Stat like they need a hole in the head.

      I know, wishful thinking

    58. BigBlueAL

      Stephen Jackson suspended by team for tonight’s game. Scott Skiles continues to work his magic!!

    59. Robert Silverman (@BobSaietta)

      BigBlueAL:
      Stephen Jackson suspended by team for tonight’s game.Scott Skiles continues to work his magic!!

      Thus enabling Carlos Delfino to rack up 25+ points tonight. (Or Ersan Ilyasova or Jon Leuer or Beno Udrih or Shaun Livingston or whichever member of the Boris Diaw All-Stars you prefer)

    60. bobneptune

      Robert Silverman (@BobSaietta): It makes total basketball sense. Here’s the problem: w/the Nets moving to Brooklyn, a big trade between the two teams is all but impossible b/c neither franchise is going to risk it failing miserably and having the deal rubbed in their faces, PR-wise.

      There’s a reason that the Knicks and the Nets haven’t made a major trade since the Maurice Lucas for Ray Williams swap in 1981. Just like the Yanks/Mets, Rangers/Islanders and even Giants/Jets, the NY area teams do NOT do deals w/one another.

      don’t you consider raphael santana to the yankees a blockbuster :-) :-)

    61. art vandelay

      Stat has been awful thus far…but I wouldn’t say it is out of the realm of possibility that he still makes the all-star team as a reserve…he has quite a bit of time to pull it together….it took him only 9 games last season to be in the MVP hunt for crying out loud.

    62. art vandelay

      btw, our beloved savior Deron Williams has been at least as bad as STAT at his position thus far this season…but no one here is writing him off like that are Stoudemire.

    63. art vandelay

      Imagine if STAT had had the playoffs Gasol had last season in LA…he would have been absolutely run out of town in NY.

    64. Robert Silverman (@BobSaietta)

      art vandelay:
      btw, our beloved savior Deron Williams has been at least as bad as STAT at his position thus far this season…but no one here is writing him off like that are Stoudemire.

      Deron’s supporting cast < STAT’s. Doesn’t matter how good a PG you are if you’re dishing to Sundiata Gaines, Jordan Farmar, and Johan Petro.

    65. ruruland

      Brian Cronin (@Brian_Cronin): I really don’t get why anyone has to denigrate Melo’s character to point out that his style of play has negatively affected Amar’e (and to an extent, Fields). He can be a poor fit without having to call him dumb or otherwise personally insult the guy. Dude’s just a person, same as us. I don’t think his style of play fits well with the current team and I certainly am frustrated by his over-reliance on isos and his insistence on trying to shoot himself out of a slump when his injured wrist keeps him from making a good percentage of his shots, but that doesn’t mean anyone should personally insult him. Just criticize his game.

      A lot of us saw this coming.

    66. Jake S.

      Robert Silverman (@BobSaietta): Deron’s supporting cast < STAT’s. Doesn’t matter how good a PG you are if you’re dishing to Sundiata Gaines, Jordan Farmar, and Johan Petro.

      (Carmelo Anthony glances in the general direction of Jared Jeffries, Toney Douglas, Bill Walker and Landry Fields and whips his lap top across the locker room).

    67. JK47

      @81

      That’s a pretty poor excuse for Deron. Most of the other Nets are shooting the ball with very good efficiency, it’s just Deron’s shot that has been off. Humphries, Marshon Brooks, Jordan Farmar and Morrow all have TS% over .560, so I’m not sure about the argument that Deron hasn’t had anybody to pass to or how that excuses Deron’s .509 TS% and .438 eFG%. The Nets are 11th in the league in offensive efficiency but they don’t even attempt to guard anybody, ranking dead last in defense.

    68. bobneptune

      Eternal OptiKnist: Now I’m going to talk out of the other side of my mouth a bit, lol. Melo put Dolan in a bad spot. He made it so public how important the looming lockout was. I remember at one point during the height of the trade speculation him saying publicly something to the effect of “my first order of business is getting this extension”. He gave away ALL donnie’s leverage. Then he further trounced on it by meeting with the Nets in Vegas..he forced Jim’s hand.

      nothing “forced” jimmy d’s hand other than his addictive- compulsive behavior and his desire to jump prices 50%. i’m just sick of the argument he had on alternative other than to cave to all of melo’s and the nugget’s ownership’s desires. just like in horse racing, it is often best to “sit chilly”!

      he could have said no and stuck with his 2 games over .500 team that probably would have been at least 5 games over .500 at the trade deadline had there not been all the trade confusion and subterfuge. carmelo wasn’t the only good basketball player in the world and he would have had room for a big player when curry and azubukie expired and moved on from there with all sorts of flexibility.

      but noooooooooo…… the franchise is stuck with mediocrity moving forward, capped out with a very , unlikable, uninteresting team. but they will always sell you on the next savior right around the corner…. just keep going to the games and pay those cable bills.

      please…. someone tell me how this misfit group of players can ever be a threat to win big moving forward?

    69. danvt

      Eternal OptiKnist: “hey, listen…i don’t care about the lockout…i’m blessed to make so much money playing a game that i love when there are so many less fortunate then me struggling right now…so i don’t care about losing money under the new CBA”

      This argument has been shot down consistently on this site.

      We gave up too much for Melo. We pay Melo too much of our cap. We’re not as good as we feel we should be right now. It’s hard to watch them get hammered, yes. But the situation isn’t as dire as all that. We have a talented front line. We need guards and depth. This will happen over the next couple of seasons. The pro Carmelo argument was that, though Gallo’s don’t grow on trees, there are some available for the mid level exception, or in the 2nd round of the draft, etc. I’m amazed that the meme in the mainstream media now is “McNuggets got the best of the Melo deal…” Please, those guys were screaming that the Knicks “Had to do it, at any price”.

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