But still, it’s not like Kobe was riding solo. Frankly, I think the WP and WS types make a pretty good case Gasol was the most important part of that team, with the game 7 performance in 2010 being perfect message board fodder for that argument….

The Honorable Cock Jowles: LeBron had never won a game in the Finals before he had Wade on his team. Can’t be that good.

He had literally never won a game in the playoffs, period. That’s a far cry from putting a talent-deficient Cavs team on your back and dragging it to the finals. People give Melo shit for not having gone farther in the playoffs, but Gasol had never won a single postseason game before becoming Kobe’s wingman.

Juany8: Everyone always wants to make Gasol out to seem like a second Shaq, but he had literally never won a game in the playoffs until he came to the Lakers.

LeBron had never won a game in the Finals before he had Wade on his team. Can’t be that good.

Now Pau Gasol was awesome during those championship years, but in terms of big men he wasn’t any better than guys like Dirk, Duncan, Garnett, and Dwight. Bynum was injured and playing part time minutes throughout those 2 championship runs, I still remember the Lakers Rockets series in 09 where Bynum threatened to get more fouls than points against Yao Ming. Odom was their 3rd best player, and he never made an all star team (an imperfect measure, but he was a pretty uneven player throughout his career) after that, their main contributors were Derrick Fisher and Artest/Ariza. Their bench consisted of guys like DJ MBenga, Jordan Farmar, and Shannon Brown. They missed Luke Walton when he got injured, because he was their best backup wing.

Comparing that Lakers team to this Heat team, are Odom and Gasol better than Wade and Bosh? You could possibly make that case, even if you ignore that Wade had an incredible series against Dallas 2 years ago and that it was Lebron who choked away a ring. Go a little deeper though, and Miami has guys like Chalmers, Haslem, and Battier while the Lakers had to pray an ancient Derrick Fisher and guys like Ariza and Artest could make 3′s consistently. Even the Shaq Kobe Lakers had guys like Robert Horry and a young Fisher himself off the bench.

jon abbey: (Pippen is wildly overrated by people now, a choking dog on offense his whole career)

I disagree about Pippin, he’s possibly overrated but not wildly overrated. I saw him take and make many a big shot over the years, including against the Knicks. However, there was a time when people were debating whether Pippin or Jordan was better (towards the tail end of the champ run) which was a joke.

Agree, though, that the Bulls teams were generally not as deep at Magic’s, Bird’s or Kobe’s, but this Heat team is not deep either.

BigBlueAL: MJ won his first ring in his 7th season, LeBron in his 9th.Also LeBron won his ring by leaving his own team to play with 2 other All-Stars on a different team.

age seems to matter a lot more than experience, and who cares about the second thing? Jordan didn’t have to go anywhere because he had Pippen and Grant already there, I don’t think either had an especially good supporting cast (Pippen is wildly overrated by people now, a choking dog on offense his whole career) like Magic or Bird or Kobe when he played with Shaq all did.

I don’t think any comparison can be made until LeBron wins at least two more titles, but there’s no need to give Jordan even more credit than he deserves. he had a sociopathic need to win coupled with almost unparalleled talent, but LeBron is a better passer and a more versatile defender (maybe not better, but he can guard the post if necessary which Jordan couldn’t).

BigBlueAL: I don’t want the NBA to become the WNBA, sorry.

Well that’s not a very appealing prospect, I agree. Maybe that’s what it would be like. I tend not to think so. I was thinking it’d be more like when Julius and David Thompson were the exceptions not the rule, but who knows.

The Honorable Cock Jowles:
Here’s a question:

Would you guys support relegation or contraction?

I always thought baseball and basketball would work with a relegation and promotion system. I don’t know if you take it down 7 levels like some countries do for soccer. I would also think it makes sense to rid the pretense of student athletes and let the pro leagues play for player development after high school.

jon abbey: Jordan’s first ring was at 28, about a year older than LeBron’s first.

It’s true. And he certainly getting stronger, more confident, and dominant. Still hard for me to image he can keep up the way Jordan did. That was the most impressive as you’re saying. That he did it year after year. It was just hard to believe when you were watching it happen. Apart from the talent and athleticism, does Lebron have that in him?