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Wednesday, August 20, 2014

Knicks Morning News (Friday, Dec 28 2012)

  • [New York Post] Knicks point to Jason with Felton out (Fri, 28 Dec 2012 03:38:30 -0500)
    SACRAMENTO, Calif. â?? Bring it on, Jason Kidd says.
    With the Knicks formally announcing Thursday night Raymond Felton is out four to six weeks with a broken right pinkie, the starting point guard position is all Kidd’s, all the time, all at age 39.
    As the Knicks moved on for…

  • [New York Post] Iman to start practicing (Fri, 28 Dec 2012 03:32:46 -0500)
    SACRAMENTO, Calif. â?? Iman Shumpert said he will join the Knicks for Sunday’s practice on a limited basis when the club returns from its West Coast trip, but is not ready to be cleared for contact â?? the final step to his long-awaited return.
    Shumpert declined to pick a target date…

  • [New York Daily News] Knicks veteran Kidd to fill in for Felton at point guard (Fri, 28 Dec 2012 04:39:20 GMT)
    Several Knicks players are going to have to contribute to make up for Raymond Felton’s absence, and 39-year-old Jason Kidd will do most of it by moving over from shooting guard to the point.

  • [New York Times] On Pro Basketball: P.J. Carlesimo, Nets Interim Coach, Puts Choke in Past (Fri, 28 Dec 2012 10:10:05 GMT)
    After being dismissed from previous N.B.A. coaching stints, including with Golden State, where he was infamously choked by Latrell Sprewell, P.J. Carlesimo will take over as the Nets’ interim coach.

  • [New York Times] Clippers Bully Celtics to Extend Winning Streak (Fri, 28 Dec 2012 08:34:27 GMT)
    The Los Angeles Clippers left the Boston Celtics battered and bruised in a physical 106-77 victory on Thursday to extend their franchise-record winning streak to 15 games and remain on top of the NBA standings.

  • [New York Times] Clippers Roll Past Celtics 106-77 (Fri, 28 Dec 2012 07:43:33 GMT)
    The Clippers came roaring out of the opening tip and kept on going to their 15th consecutive victory.

  • [New York Times] Raymond Felton’s Broken Finger Reshuffles Knicks’ Lineup (Fri, 28 Dec 2012 06:37:18 GMT)
    An injury to Raymond Felton, the Knicks’ primary point guard, means the team may need to fill the spot by a committee led by Jason Kidd.

  • [New York Times] Slumping Brooklyn Nets Fire Coach Avery Johnson (Fri, 28 Dec 2012 06:27:35 GMT)
    Despite the Nets’ franchise-best start, recent turmoil led Nets ownership to dispatch Coach Avery Johnson.

  • [New York Times] Wade Picks Up One-Game Ban for Kicking Incident (Fri, 28 Dec 2012 06:25:28 GMT)
    Miami Heat guard Dwyane Wade was handed a one-game suspension without pay on Thursday for kicking out at Charlotte’s Ramon Sessions in a contest the previous evening.

  • [New York Times] Thunder 111, Mavericks 105: Westbrook Rallies Thunder Past Dallas (Fri, 28 Dec 2012 05:49:37 GMT)
    Kevin Durant scored 40 points while Russell Westbrook added eight of his 16 points in overtime to help the Oklahoma City Thunder beat Dallas on Thursday night for their 11th straight win at home.

  • [New York Times] Dwyane Wade Is Suspended One Game Without Pay (Fri, 28 Dec 2012 05:10:38 GMT)
    Miami Heat guard Dwyane Wade was suspended one game without pay by the NBA on Thursday for flailing his leg and making contact with the groin of Charlotte Bobcats’ Ramon Sessions.

  • 93 comments on “Knicks Morning News (Friday, Dec 28 2012)

    1. Frank

      Can anyone actually imagine Phil Jackson taking this Nets job? Since when has Phil ever taken on a team that didn’t have top 3 talent in the league? No cap flexibility, everyone getting old, Billy freaking King as your GM.

      I’m not sure any of the coaching candidates who can pretty much pick their spot (Phil, JVG, SVG, maybe Jerry Sloan) will bite at this mess.

    2. Frank

      It’s also amazing to me that they fired Avery Johnson and installed a guy who was choked by a player as interim coach, all while apparently having no plan at all for who was going to replace Avery. Either the locker room was way more toxic than we know, or this is just a total mess. Or both.

    3. danvt

      I think NYK keeps rolling until Ray gets back. They’ll be more post oriented which may not be a bad thing. They’ll definitely be more patient. JKidd is one of the best PG’s ever. Nice to have depth. Kudos to Grunwald. Last year, there was really no one on the team outside of the big three at the outset and at the end. There was some semblance of a bench once we discovered Lin, Novak and signed JR but then injuries decimated us by playoff time. This year it seems that we have enough to not have glaring weaknesses depending on roster health. Ray will be back 100% for the playoffs, so this might be a blessing in disguise, as opposed to a ball handler with bruised hands for months.

      Roster depth has worked well with one of the Camby, Wallace, and Thomas always being available. We’ve won without Stat and are 3-2 without Melo, so that says all you need to know.

      JR Smith is playing at an all star level, btw. Can’t wait to see Amar’e. Hopefully another feel good win with a denuded lineup tonight.

    4. Frank

      We are a little lucky with the upcoming schedule – only 1 back-to-back in the next 4 weeks. Hopefully Shumpert is back by then (Jan 10-11) so JKidd has more time to rest. With that favorable a schedule, I’m thinking Kidd can probably play 30-32 min/game without breaking down.

      According to the NY Post, Shumpert will be practicing on a limited basis with the team again (still not full contact). He can’t be more than a couple weeks away (in my totally uninformed opinion!).

      http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/knicks/iman_to_start_practicing_jpAfyzwcj87sILwZsTK3bI?utm_medium=rss&utm_content=Knicks

    5. jon abbey

      Frank:
      Either the locker room was way more toxic than we know, or this is just a total mess.Or both.

      probably both, Williams and Humphries both are playing tonight, their injuries have mysteriously disappeared along with Avery.

    6. Frank

      jon abbey: probably both, Williams and Humphries both are playing tonight, their injuries have mysteriously disappeared along with Avery.

      Still funny/sad that they fired a guy because of locker room mutiny and replaced him with a guy who was so disliked by a player that he got choked for it.

    7. Z-man

      The Nets have taken a lot of abuse here, much deserved via their recent play, but I still think they are better than their record indicates and will make a run.

      The Celts, on the other hand, look like a time bomb. They aer small and slow, a bad combo.

    8. flossy

      Frank: Still funny/sad that they fired a guy because of locker room mutiny and replaced him with a guy who was so disliked by a player that he got choked for it.

      I mean… it was Sprewell. I love Spree, but I feel bad for PJ that his entire coaching career to date boils down to “got memorably choked by Latrell Sprewell.” That’s like if you were at least competent at your job as a traffic cop but one day got pushed in front of a bus by a crazy person (and survived), and then for the rest of your life people were like “yeah but he DID get pushed in front of a bus, so…”

      It’s actually kind of weird that the stigma of being choked by Sprewell seems to have lasted a lot longer than the stigma surround Spree *because* he choked his coach. As if Carlesimo provoked Mr. Rogers into assaulting him. It was Sprewell, after all.

    9. Frank

      flossy: I mean… it was Sprewell.I love Spree, but I feel bad for PJ that his entire coaching career to date boils down to “got memorably choked by Latrell Sprewell.”That’s like if you were at least competent at your job as a traffic cop but one day got pushed in front of a bus by a crazy person (and survived), and then for the rest of your life people were like “yeah but he DID get pushed in front of a bus, so…”

      It’s actually kind of weird that the stigma of being choked by Sprewell seems to have lasted a lot longer than the stigma surround Spree *because* he choked his coach.As if Carlesimo provoked Mr. Rogers into assaulting him.It was Sprewell, after all.

      Not that anyone ever “deserves” to be choked, but PJ has/had a long reputation for being very hard on players. And Spree was basically a model citizen here while playing for the Knicks, as far as I remember (obviously that was after the PJ incident so I’m sure he learned something from it). Clearly Spree shouldn’t have choked him, but I doubt that PJ was totally blameless in the incident like the guy shoved in front of the bus in your example was.

    10. flossy

      I’m also a bit curious to see if any of the ol’ Popovic magic rubbed off on PJC. Jacque Vaughn certainly seems to have benefited from his tutelage (not that ending up at the bottom of the lottery will benefit the Magic, but Vaughn sure has polished that turd of a roster better than anyone could reasonably have expected).

    11. JC Knickfan

      Shumpert playing PG last year was a disaster. Don’t see how Shump returning relieves Kidd on the running team. I guess there was a suggestion to use JR.

      So basically Knicks are stuck with Prigs as the backup. Who at times look terrible, but going to get around 18 minutes night for at least 14 games. I wouldn’t mind waiving White and signing another PG, but currently dumbfounded who to get.

      Little Nate if Chicago waives him when Rose come back?

    12. flossy

      Frank: Not that anyone ever “deserves” to be choked

      You could pretty much leave it at that… Lots of coaches are tough on their players–it’s not an invitation to assault. But my point was more about how that incident has followed him around forever in an unfortunate way.

    13. flossy

      JC Knickfan:

      I wouldn’t mind waiving White and signing another PG, but currently dumbfounded who to get.

      Little Nate if Chicago waives him when Rose come back?

      I guess Delonte West is out there? We don’t have much to offer in a trade, but the Kings have more back-up PGs than they need and nothing to lose (I’d take either Thomas or Brooks)…

    14. Z-man

      I don’t think we make a trade unless Plan B fails due to injury.

      I also don’t get why people are so concerned with the possibility of Kidd breaking down or getting injured. He knows how to pace himself and Woody will not “ride him like Secretariat.” As to Shump playing some minutes at PG, this is a different team with more weapons and a veteran mentor. Shump will be fine for 5-10 MPG, as would JR if need be.

      If Nate is available, I’d give him a look.

    15. Frank

      Doubt Nate will be available. Why would Chicago let him go? He’s on a minimum contract and is playing the best ball of his career.

      Re: Kidd – right now he is playing PG on offense and often guarding the likes of Kobe Bryant on defense. That means regardless of whether he is playing 28 or 35 minutes, he’s expending enormous amounts of energy on both ends of the floor. That’s a far cry from his offensive role when Felton was there, which was basically a spot-up shooter behind the 3 point line and a secondary (or tertiary when JR’s in the game) ballhandler. He’s already had back spasms this year, and recovery time just isn’t the same when you’re 39 and not 23. The lack of back-to-backs is just huge for this stretch.

      At the very least, Shump could bring the ball up if the other team is pressuring the ball on inbounds. And certainly Shump would take primary responsibility for guarding the other team’s best PG/SG when in the game.

    16. Frank

      And re: making a trade or picking up a PG – I just don’t see it. It’s not like Felton is out until April. He’ll be out until late Jan/early Feb. Kidd can certainly play 30 min/game until then considering there’s only that 1 back-to-back and Shumpert will make his return reasonably soon. We’ve got a 6.5 game lead in the Atlantic, and no one else in the division really looks like they want to make a push. The first order of business has to be to win the division, then worry about 1-2-3-4 seeding next. If we even go .500 in January, we’d probably still have a 3-4 game lead in the division by the time Ray Ray comes back.

      In the meantime, Prigs can play 15 min at the point, JR can do some things, and Melo can play point forward for a few minutes a game too.

    17. Nick C.

      This is the Wikipedia section on Spree and PJ version which coincides with my recollection just so wee have the facts closer to reality and less tainted by any fond memories of Spree as a Knick or loathing of the Nets. You would have to dig if they exist but my recollection is that there were issues between Spree and teammates including Tim Hardaway.

      Anyhow:
      1997 choking incident
      Though a four-time All-Star, a significant mark on Sprewell’s career was an incident which took place on December 1, 1997, in which he attacked head coach P. J. Carlesimo during a Warriors practice. When Carlesimo yelled at Sprewell to make crisper passes (specifically asking him to “put a little mustard” on a pass[2]), Sprewell responded that he was not in the mood for criticism and told the coach to keep his distance. When Carlesimo approached, Sprewell threatened to kill him and dragged him backwards by his throat, choking him for 7–10 seconds before his teammates and assistant coaches pulled Sprewell off of his coach. Sprewell returned about 20 minutes later after showering and changing and again accosted Carlesimo. He landed a glancing blow at Carlesimo’s right cheek before being dragged away again by the assistant coaches. It was not his first violent incident with the Warriors; in 1995, Sprewell fought with teammate Jerome Kersey and returned to practice carrying a two-by-four, and reportedly threatened to return with a gun.[3] In a 1993 practice, Sprewell fought with Byron Houston, who was 50 pounds heavier than Sprewell and had what many teammates describe as having a Mike Tyson-like demeanor and physique.[4]
      Sprewell was suspended for 10 games without pay. The next day, in the wake of a public uproar, the Warriors voided the remainder of his contract, which included $23.7 million over three years, and the NBA suspended him for one year. Sprewell took the case to arbitration, and, as a result, the contract voiding was overturned and the league suspension was reduced to…

    18. Nick C.

      apparently I hit the Ted Nelson word limit. Frank, I’m not trying to snipe at you, just that my recollection of Spree is less favorable.

    19. Frank

      Man I am so excited about Shump’s return. Even if he’s just Tony Allen 2.0, I just love watching him play.

    20. Frank

      Nick C.:
      apparently I hit the Ted Nelson word limit. Frank, I’m not trying to snipe at you, just that my recollection of Spree is less favorable.

      whoops. i guess you’re right. i just have such rosy Spree memories.

    21. lavor postell

      flossy:
      I’m also a bit curious to see if any of the ol’ Popovic magic rubbed off on PJC.

      I doubt that Carleismo has polished his head coaching skills at all. He was the assistant coach for the Spurs during their 2003, 2005 and 2007 championship teams. He was then hired by Seattle to lead them in rebuilding around Durant and Green.

      He lasted all of 13 while he lead them to a 1-12 start. One of the main highlights of this period was trying to make Durant (now the best scorer in the NBA), the best scoring 3 in college since Carmelo, into a shooting guard.

      If Phil is actually serious about listening then they should do everything within their power to get him. This really seems like Phil trying to massage his own ego more than anything. It is highly unlikely they can beat Miami, NYK or Chicago in a series regardless of who is caling the shots from the sidelines.

      The source in the story claims that Phil is intrugued because of the fit of this roster with the triangle. Is that a joke?

      The triangle requires your big men to be excellent at reading defensive rotations and making the appropriate passes from the block. Lopez is an effective scoring center, both with his mid-range and post up game, but not an effective passer. Blatche has rejuvenated his career, but his IQ is not where it needs to be to execute a multiple read system like the triangle. Evans? Hump? Please.

      It also completely de-emphasizes the point guard. This is why the Bulls and Lakers never had particularly great point guard play and when the Lakers did acquire a ball dominant pg in Gary Payton he struggled mightily the entire season. Can’t imagine D-Will being happy. JJ would probably thrive in this system with it’s emphasis on wing post ups, but if you’re playing to maximize his strengths you will not an elite team.

      Not sure where Crash fits and his contract…

    22. jon abbey

      Frank:
      Man I am so excited about Shump’s return. Even if he’s just Tony Allen 2.0, I just love watching him play.

      plus a bonus huge flat top this year!!

    23. Eternal OptiKnist

      hey guys…been gone for a while but wow; lots happening! On the Nets, it seems like everyone has just changed their tune on them after they played poorly. To start the season, Billy King was a genius for picking up the pieces after Dwight-Gate; was praised for his plan B. All the experts were saying how the Nets pieces ‘fit’ better than the Knicks (me included..although im a moron). I thought the Gerald Wallace trade was nuts but at least for the short-term appear to have been one of the best moves. Now though, King is an idiot the roster was/is ill-conceived, etc, etc. Nobody had that opinion going in…now everyone is a genius. I just think Deron is shooting like shit (as is JJ) and Brook Lopez was out with injury. I think Deron’s wrist is a major thing..didnt he hurt it like 2 years ago? I dunno..he’s better than this. If he gets his shit together, they will be fine. You could see the Avery firing a mile away..i just didnt think it’d happen this quick. I remember hearing Prokerov saying something about how ‘its a big year for Avery’ but the way he said it was…whats the word…not menacing…foreshadowing? I dunno..it was not a ringing endorsment. Will be interesting to see who the next coach is..I thought one of the Van Gundy boys…who knows. I’d be hurt if it was JVG…he and Popovic are the only 2 coaches i’d rather have than Woody right now.

    24. Z-man

      If I were the Nets, I would tend to go JVG rather than Jackson. Who needs a prima donna control freak in the twilight of his coaching career demanding control over personnel decisions after the roster is pretty much locked in?

    25. Nick C.

      JVG doesn’t sound bad. Jackson is never coaching the Nets. As noted above, he has only taken cherry picked jobs of teams on the cusp of winning it all.

      I don’t think the Knicks need to make any trades. All we have heard and said is that the team is deep. The only reason to consider a move is if Felton is out for the year. Shump returns soon or so we hear that gives us Kidd and Prigs with JR and Shump as combo guards. If things get desparate, Shaun Livingston was waived recently, he could handle 5 minutes or so. Nate I hate so you won’t get an unbiased opinion from me.

    26. danvt

      Yeah, I thought the Gerald Wallace trade was daft at the time. Then it looked good. Now, they can’t win so you look at what could have been. Deron Williams is amazing and will prove the naysayers wrong. He seems disinclined to shoot. He should play 2 with CJ at the 1 and find the three point line. Amazing that Carmelo has more range than Dwill right now. That can be remedied.

    27. Eternal OptiKnist

      On my beloved Knicks…wow! Every year i do a game-by-game forecast; this year has been my most aggressive at 54-28; I LOVED the offseason (with the exception of Lin); i was a big Felton fan. I cant believe i’m 2 games ahead of pace right now. Here’s what I’m seeing…1) i want to have Jason Kidd’s baby 2) where the hell did our defense go? I almost feel like someone is doing some math and just trying to create more possessions that the opposition (almost like SSOL). Take care of the ball and defend with the goal being forcing turnovers as opposed to contesting shots. We’re just not playing the 90s style defense that the talking heads are only now starting to mention; they all said we were playing great defense when that hasnt been the case since week 3! It just appears to no longer be a priority. I dont want to hear “when shumpert comes back”; the team philosophy is clearly no longer to defend maniacly; we’re a slow-paced D’antoni team. We’re in alot more close games than we were after the first few weks of the season 3) Maybe this is tied to my prior comment, but does Tyson seem only engaged part of the time? 4) why does everyone say JR Smith doesnt defend. I actually think he works on that end..he rebounds..always seems to fill more than just the scoring column. 5) i’m concerned about J-Kidd’s playing time (i had this concern back in preseason..now worse with Felton out); he appears in great shape and playing well but we need him in April. 6) I want to punch Steve Novak in the face 7) I think the Felton, Melo and Wallace injuries are blessings in disguise so nice and early in the season…real opportunities for Prigs, Cope and white to get time, experience and confidence. It might hurt a few games now but will be worth it in the end. 8) STAT is going to be great on this team…what does he need to be successful? Great PG play..check…3pt shooting to space the floor…check; and we’re not playing great defense..he’ll actually give us…

    28. ephus

      I watched the start of the Charlotte Bobcats walkthrough this morning, and boy is that team young. I had watched K-State practice earlier this season, and the Bobcats roster did not look that much older than the Wildcats. If Bismack Biyombo ever gets basketball skills to harnass his ridiculous athleticism, he will be an All-Star.

    29. Eternal OptiKnist

      Finishing my point on STAT…we’re no longer a defensive team so he’s not going to ruin that end of the floor; he might actually provide some much-needed shot-blocking. I’m biased though..i’m a big stat fan. But i have hope for him; he’s at least making good on my belief in him being a team-first guy…concerned with winning.

    30. Douglas

      Nick C.: If things get desparate, Shaun Livingston was waived recently, he could handle 5 minutes or so.

      Cavs picked up Livingston; they waived Donald Sloan for him. (I’m not sure why I remember that.)

    31. Brian Cronin

      Livingston would have been a great fit.

      As for Nate, yeah, why would the Bulls cut Nate? If they really didn’t want him around any more, he’s played more than well enough to get something for him in a trade.

    32. lavor postell

      Brian Cronin:
      Livingston would have been a great fit.

      As for Nate, yeah, why would the Bulls cut Nate? If they really didn’t want him around any more, he’s played more than well enough to get something for him in a trade.

      From what I’ve read Nate has a non-guaranteed contract until Jan. 15 after which it becomes guaranteed. I believe that when his contract becomes guaranteed it would push them into paying the luxury tax, something that Reinsdorf has never done as owner of the Bulls.

      If that actually happens and we are struggling without Felton it would be prudent to make an inquiry. If I was a Bulls fan and that happened I would be furious. This is a major market team, with a fan base that has sold out the United Center for about a decade and their cheap ass owner can’t pony up for a contender and dip a little bit into the coffers.

      Their offseason firesale really said it all. Granted that Thibodeau is that good of a coach that he can coax a 50 win effort from this squad, but it simply is not a championship contender with the losses in depth they’ve experienced.

    33. KnickfaninNJ

      I am not thrilled with the thought JVG returning as Knicks coach. I watched his teams play. He had excellent talent on his team and did fine with it in an unimaginative way. When the team’s talent level started to slip and it was harder to win games he got very stressed and decided to resign. The Nets would get a methodical defense out of him, but I am not sure he would do much for them offensively. I also doubt he wants to go back to coaching.

    34. Brian Cronin

      JVG is only coming back if it is the perfect situation. The Nets situation is so bad I don’t know if any good candidate would want to coach there. I’m shocked at the Phil Jackson rumors. How could anyone want that job? For instance, let’s say OKC doesn’t make it to the NBA Finals. Isn’t there at least a chance that Brooks gets fired?

    35. Brian Cronin

      From what I’ve read Nate has a non-guaranteed contract until Jan. 15 after which it becomes guaranteed. I believe that when his contract becomes guaranteed it would push them into paying the luxury tax, something that Reinsdorf has never done as owner of the Bulls.

      If that actually happens and we are struggling without Felton it would be prudent to make an inquiry. If I was a Bulls fan and that happened I would be furious. This is a major market team, with a fan base that has sold out the United Center for about a decade and their cheap ass owner can’t pony up for a contender and dip a little bit into the coffers.

      Their offseason firesale really said it all. Granted that Thibodeau is that good of a coach that he can coax a 50 win effort from this squad, but it simply is not a championship contender with the losses in depth they’ve experienced.

      Fascinating. Thanks, LP!

      But in that scenario, couldn’t the Bulls trade someone else to get back under the luxury tax? The tax is based on your salaries at the end of the season, so they’d still have time to get under the luxury cap before the year ends.

      That said, yeah, I’ve written here a few times about how disgusted I am by the Bulls and their cheapness.

    36. KnickfaninNJ

      I agree about JVG. But I am not sure the Nets situation is desperate. It’s true they have a lot of salary commitments, but they are still a .500 team that is not so old and in a dIvision where .500 could get into the playoffs. A lot of teams are worse off.

    37. mokers

      Lots of intrigue with the Bulls. Basically the thinking is that Marquis Teague may be good enough to play backup minutes and that would hold them until Rose comes back.

      http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/basketball/bulls/ct-spt-1219-bits-bulls-celtics-chicago–20121219,0,2027684.story

      You would think the more likely scenario is to find somebody who wants Rip Hamilton’s expiring contract, but the ownership is notoriously cheap. Indiana and Milwaukee are going to challenge them for the Central, but maybe they think that a 5, 6 or 7 seed in East gives them a favorable enough matchup in the playoffs.

    38. flossy

      The Bulls are cheap, but I get the firesale last offseason. This year, with Rose returning late from injury and probably not being 100% right out of the gate was always going to amount to treading water at best. Why go into the luxury tax for that? Were they really supposed to match a massive offer for Asik when they already have one of the best centers in the league? Having seen Ronnie Brewer play the last 30 or so games, are you shocked they weren’t falling over themselves to bring him back? So who else does that leave that they let go, CJ Watson? Knucklehead N8 Robinson is playing better than him this year, by a considerable margin.

    39. KnickfaninNJ

      I can see Chicago not being able to get much for Robinson in a trade and ending up waiving him. He’s a much better passer than he used to be, but I don’t think this is really appreciated around league and everyone has to worry about how he can defend bigger guards. Owners don’t always do what’s right or what’s popular. Just look at the two teams that waived Lin, much to their fans eventual displeasure.

    40. Frank

      Melo out tonight.
      Smart move – no need to play him against Sac if he’s not 100%.
      Next game’s not until Tuesday when Amare is hopefully back.

    41. Eternal OptiKnist

      yup…try and steal one more win off the imploding kings then have 3 days before the next game. Would be ridiculous to play him tonight!

    42. Hubert Davis

      This would be his 6th missed game out of 30. That’s 20% of our games. And with a win tonight we’d be 22-8 despite that.

    43. Eternal OptiKnist

      KnickfaninNJ: Actually, on second thought, the Lakers might want Robinson. They have a very weak bench.

      Makes sense under normal circumstances…D’antoni hates him. But desperate times call for desperate measures maybe..

    44. Brian Cronin

      Lots of intrigue with the Bulls. Basically the thinking is that Marquis Teague may be good enough to play backup minutes and that would hold them until Rose comes back.

      http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/basketball/bulls/ct-spt-1219-bits-bulls-celtics-chicago–20121219,0,2027684.story

      You would think the more likely scenario is to find somebody who wants Rip Hamilton’s expiring contract, but the ownership is notoriously cheap. Indiana and Milwaukee are going to challenge them for the Central, but maybe they think that a 5, 6 or 7 seed in East gives them a favorable enough matchup in the playoffs.

      That’s just ridiculous if they’re seriously considering cutting Nate for luxury tax reasons. Oh well, at the end of the day, Chicago doing dumb stuff is fine by me!

    45. ruruland

      Raymond Felton was 12th in the nba in total PnR ppp according to ESPN.
      Higher than CP3. Kidd already mentioned feeling tired from running all these PnR. The Knicks will have to reinvent much of the offense. Expect Chandler usage and efficiency to drop. Same with 3 pt shot.

    46. Eternal OptiKnist

      Brian Cronin: That’s just ridiculous if they’re seriously considering cutting Nate for luxury tax reasons. Oh well, at the end of the day, Chicago doing dumb stuff is fine by me!

      From a business standpoint it makes a ton of sense.

    47. flossy

      ruruland:
      Raymond Felton was 12th in the nba in total PnR ppp according to ESPN.
      Higher than CP3. Kidd already mentioned feeling tired from running all these PnR. The Knicks will have to reinvent much of the offense. Expect Chandler usage and efficiency to drop. Same with 3 pt shot.

      The nice thing is that with Melo, and with Amar’e coming back, can have a legit post threat or even two on the floor for all 48 minutes (assuming Amar’e comes back healthy and that the time with Hakeem payed off). Kidd can’t run 30 PnR plays every night, but he can make an entry pass into the post and swing or shoot the ball off of the doubles it creates.

      I imagine they’ll still run the high PnR with Pablo and the side PnR with JR, but if anything this might help strengthen some other parts of the Knicks offense going forward and let them work on a scoring style that’ll come in handy as an alternative to Raymond Felton going 6-19 every time the other team can stick with Chandler on the dive.

      This would be a good time for Marcus Camby to show he can play 20 mpg, since his superb passing from the high post and willingness to at least take/sometimes hit a few mid-range jumpers every game will open things up a bit also.

    48. Brian Cronin

      From a business standpoint it makes a ton of sense.

      Depends on whether you believe Nate’s production isn’t worth whatever the luxury tax penalty is. And I’d say it pretty clearly is so far.

    49. Frank

      Brian Cronin: Depends on whether you believe Nate’s production isn’t worth whatever the luxury tax penalty is. And I’d say it pretty clearly is so far.

      It’s not just the tax – it’s also that they don’t get $ back from the taxpayers, isn’t it? So it’s like a double whammy. Plus, taxpayers can’t do a whole bunch of things, like give the MLE, do S&Ts, etc.

      Does anyone know if you can trade a vet’s minimum to a team over the cap (ie. for a 2nd round pick or something)?

      If he gets cut, one would think there are lots of teams out there that would want him – then again, he did play basically just as well in GS last year and no one wanted him at anything above the minimum.

    50. Brian Cronin

      The Bulls would only be over the tax for this season, though. since Hamilton’s contract is effectively up at the end of the season, so they’d dip back below the tax so they wouldn’t have to worry about sign and trades and the like in the offseason.

      But yes, it is true that Nate’s production would have to be weighed against the tax plus whatever monies non tax-payers get from the tax-paying teams. Anyone know how much money that is nowadays?

    51. JK47

      Felton vs. Prigioni

      TS%
      Felton .460
      Prigioni .570

      eFG%
      Felton .440
      Prigioni .545

      AST%
      Felton 31.9
      Prigioni 28.0

      TOV%
      Felton 12.1
      Prigioni 27.3

      STL%
      Felton 1.9
      Prigioni 3.8

      USG%
      Felton 26.9
      Prigioni 14.2

      WS/48
      Felton .050
      Prigioni .108

      Interesting numbers. WS/48 and WP48 far prefer Prigioni. Felton turns the ball over far less, but the sky-high usage and the horrific efficiency would seem to offset a lot of that value, even adjusting for Kobessists. Felton ranks #15 in the NBA in USG%, a truly depressing stat. Prigioni will cost you a few possessions per game because of turnovers, but he also gets twice as many steals as Felton on a per minute basis, which helps offset the turnover problem.

      I’d like to see Prig’s minutes get bumped up to 20 or so per game during Felton’s absence, both to give Kidd a rest and to see what Prigs can do in a bigger sample size. He’s averaged 9.1 points and 6.9 assists per 36 minutes against 3.0 turnovers and 2.6 steals. Those are solid backup point guard numbers. In games he doesn’t always look dazzling but the advanced stats like him.

      Plus/minus numbers favor Felton, but remember that Felton is running with the first unit an awful lot more of the time. Prigs has rarely been on the floor with the Knicks’ two best players, Tyson Chandler and Carmelo Anthony.

    52. KnickfaninNJ

      Nate has a per of 17 and a salary of 1.1M$. His plus/minus isnt negative So he can come off the bench and hold the fort so to speak It’s hard to believe some team wouldnt want that combination.

    53. Frank

      Just read Robert’s article at HP – a few comments:

      #1 – as far as I know, Felton didn’t lie about anything and the Knicks didn’t hide anything about his finger. He didn’t get his x-ray until halftime of the PHX game. And talked about it right afterward.

      #2 – as a health care professional, I can tell you that things are not always obvious. Probably 99 out of 100 times when someone has what Felton had, it’s just a jammed finger/sprain/etc. When he woke up the next day and it was purple, that sent off warning lights because fractures are the things that bleed and swell like that.

      #3 – the last time we all went into a tizzy about an injury to Melo that was called “not serious”, he missed 2 games, then came back to play 40 min/game scoring 32 points/game with a TS of 58.4.

      #4 – re: Amare’s knee injury – sometimes people are just wrong. But I highly doubt they were lying about it. He didn’t get the MRI for 10 days after the initial injury, so it’s not like they were withholding that information. Then they said 2-3 weeks, then it increased to 4-6 weeks after surgery. But sometimes it’s not cut-and-dry. If things were so obvious all the time, we’d all be James Andrews. But we’re not. There’s only one of him, and it’s because he can take these cases that are complicated and not obvious, and make sense of them. And in a knee like Amare’s, which is post-microfracture surgery and with years of pounding after that, it is definitely going to be a non-obvious film.

      So I think it’s fine to ask “should they get a precautionary MRI on Melo?” – but I think it’s a little ridiculous to author an entire rant on HP based on this.

      Just my 2 cents.

    54. ephus

      Frank: Does anyone know if you can trade a vet’s minimum to a team over the cap (ie. for a 2nd round pick or something)?

      According CBAFAQ.com, if a team trades for a vet’s minimum player, they do not have to worry about salary matching. But if Nate is making $1.1 million, he was signed for more than the vet’s minimum, so salary matching would be required.

    55. KnickFanInCelticLand

      @ 55

      Frank, I agree with the gist of your overall post. One minor clarification is in order, though. You stated that only fractures “bleed and swell.” This is untrue as both fractures and sprains exhibit “bleeding and swelling.”

    56. DRed

      ruruland:
      Raymond Felton was 12th in the nba in total PnR ppp according to ESPN.
      Higher than CP3. Kidd already mentioned feeling tired from running all these PnR. The Knicks will have to reinvent much of the offense. Expect Chandler usage and efficiency to drop. Same with 3 pt shot.

      Get Donald Sterling on the phone! Let’s make a deal!

    57. cgreene

      Frank:
      Just read Robert’s article at HP – a few comments:

      #1 – as far as I know, Felton didn’t lie about anything and the Knicks didn’t hide anything about his finger. He didn’t get his x-ray until halftime of the PHX game. And talked about it right afterward.

      #2 – as a health care professional, I can tell you that things are not always obvious. Probably 99 out of 100 times when someone has what Felton had, it’s just a jammed finger/sprain/etc.When he woke up the next day and it was purple, that sent off warning lights because fractures are the things that bleed and swell like that.

      #3 – the last time we all went into a tizzy about an injury to Melo that was called “not serious”, he missed 2 games, then came back to play 40 min/game scoring 32 points/game with a TS of 58.4.

      #4 – re: Amare’s knee injury – sometimes people are just wrong. But I highly doubt they were lying about it. He didn’t get the MRI for 10 days after the initial injury, so it’s not like they were withholding that information.Then they said 2-3 weeks, then it increased to 4-6 weeks after surgery. But sometimes it’s not cut-and-dry.If things were so obvious all the time, we’d all be James Andrews. But we’re not. There’s only one of him, and it’s because he can take these cases that are complicated and not obvious, and make sense of them.And in a knee like Amare’s, which is post-microfracture surgery and with years of pounding after that, it is definitely going to be a non-obvious film.

      So I think it’s fine to ask “should they get a precautionary MRI on Melo?” – but I think it’s a little ridiculous to author an entire rant on HP based on this.

      Just my 2 cents.

      AMEN!!! So tired of hearing Robert and Seth from P&T rant about this nonsense. Every single team does this. I also mentioned this in a post yesterday.

    58. BigBlueAL

      One thing I do find odd is how long the Knicks wait to get MRI/X-rays for injured players (unless they are lying and dont always report when players get an MRI/X-ray). I mean why not get an MRI on Melo’s knee and if they have and is the reason they know there is no structural damage then why hide that fact??

      The Yankees are the opposite, they are notorious for getting MRI/X-rays for players all the time lol.

    59. ruruland

      JK47: Felton vs. PrigioniTS%Felton .460Prigioni .570eFG%Felton .440Prigioni .545AST%Felton 31.9Prigioni 28.0TOV%Felton 12.1Prigioni 27.3STL%Felton 1.9Prigioni 3.8USG%Felton 26.9Prigioni 14.2WS/48Felton .050Prigioni .108P>Plus/minus numbers favor Felton, but remember that Felton is running with the first unit an awful lot more of the time. Prigs has rarely been on the floor with the Knicks’ two best players, Tyson Chandler and Carmelo Anthony.

      JK:

      It will be interesting to see what Prigs can do with Ty and Melo.

      But to reiterate, Felton is 12th in the NBA in the PNR excluding Chandler offensive rebounds and including his putrid shooting!!

      It’s (one of) the best play in basketball in large part because of Felton’s ability to get beneath the free throw line.

      That’s not something Prigs does nearly as consistently.

      This is another area where the advanced metrics completely break down. Prigs inability to penetrate is going to cost teammates a lot of possessions where they have to create off the dribble.

      Felton’s penetration doesn’t just create the lobs, the Melo 3s, but the offensive rebounds on the weakside and the ball-movement on the perimeter because it forces penetration.

      Prigs is definitely a better shooter, and probably just as good of a passer, but I think he’s going to have a negative effect on the offense in comparison to Felton.

      We’ll see. Amar’e coming back changes things, too.

    60. lavor postell

      Heat coach Erik Spoelstra implied the Heat’s stars are being targeted by opposing teams. During the game Wednesday in Charlotte, Bobcats forward Gerald Henderson fouled LeBron James hard.

      “That was a very physical game; there were a lot of hard hits in that game,” Spoelstra told reporters in Detroit. “What we’re getting tired of as an organization are the hits, particularly to Dwyane and LeBron and Chris (Bosh). That is the game plan against us.”

      This has to be a complete joke. Wade clearly deserved a suspension for blatantly kicking Sessions in the nuts and the idea that the Heat’s superstars take some kind of punishment is a joke. Lebron to a certain extent takes some hits, but he gets his fair share of freebies. Wade might be the most entitled superstar in the league, not to mention his current stature in the game is not an indication of his current level of play.

      Also Lebron didn’t get called for a foul for over 6 games. His ability to be a ball hawk, lockdown perimeter defender and rim protecter is the rock Miami’s D is predicated on. It is an impossibility for a player of that magnitude and constant action to not commit a foul in a period of time of that length.

    61. jon abbey

      ruruland: I don’t really agree with robert, but per usual, it was worth the time to read it.

      strongly disagree, Robert may be a nice guy (no idea) but he is a dreadful basketball writer, incredibly self-indulgent style and not much content underneath to make the wade through worth it.

    62. ruruland

      jon abbey: strongly disagree, Robert may be a nice guy (no idea) but he is a dreadful basketball writer, incredibly self-indulgent style and not much content underneath to make the wade through worth it.

      agree that it’s self-indulgent and at times way too esoteric/pedantic, but a lot these grafs are just awesome.

      His style isn’t for everyone, but I think if you take it for what it is, it’s hard to deny some of it is pretty brilliant. It’d be hating to say they suck.

      I agree though, but sometimes talented writers have the leeway to go overboard…. Both Cavan and Silverman do this quite a bit. I think if they mixed up their metaphors with some understated prose, they could still have their brilliant grafs, but would be more accessible.

      You don’t have to show us how smart and over-educated you are ALL THE TIME!!

    63. jon abbey

      well, I’d say in general that the more insightful content is underneath, the more stylistic leeway I’m willing to tolerate. I know I’m in the minority on Robert, though.

    64. BigBlueAL

      jon abbey:
      meanwhile, the early signs are that the Nets are very happy to have Avery gone.

      I think they are even happier to be playing the Bobcats lol.

    65. ephus

      I know that Kidd said he is getting tired running all of the PnR action, but Cousins absolutely cannot move his feet in space. When he is trying to defend Chandler, the PnR is an absolute must.

    66. Nick C.

      Not so splendid: leaving guys wide open, meh rebounding, hitting maybe three jump shots, Tyson unable to do anything if he catches the ball on the move …

    67. ephus

      I know Copeland made that shot, but a contested 21′ off the bounce with 14 seconds on the shot clock is no way to run an offense.

    68. Will the Thrill

      This isn’t just the Kings getting hot, they are shooting wide open threes like it was a shootaround.

    69. BigBlueAL

      yellowboy90:
      Coach really doesn’t like White. lol. Talk about a quick hook and he hasn’t been back since.

      Got a quick hook cause he picked up 2 fouls in less than 2 minutes.

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