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Tuesday, October 21, 2014

Knicks Morning News (Friday, Dec 07 2012)

  • [New York Times] Mayo’s 23 Lead Mavericks Past Skidding Suns 97-94 (Fri, 07 Dec 2012 07:51:42 GMT)
    Fans were guaranteed a good time or their money back at the Phoenix Suns’ game against Dallas.

  • [New York Times] Knicks 112, Heat 92: Knicks Rout Heat With 3-Point Barrage (Fri, 07 Dec 2012 06:57:16 GMT)
    Playing the second game of a back-to-back on the road and without Carmelo Anthony, the Knicks hit 18 3’s en route to routing the defending champion Miami Heat.

  • [New York Times] Heat, Slack on Defense, Endure Their First Home Defeat (Fri, 07 Dec 2012 06:30:25 GMT)
    A troubling bout of defensive lapses tripped up Miami in its loss to the Knicks, who routed the Heat for the second straight time.

  • [New York Times] Golden State Warriors Are Winning, Just Like They Planned It (Fri, 07 Dec 2012 06:27:18 GMT)
    Coming off a 23-43 season, the Warriors are 11-7 this season and will face the Nets in Brooklyn on Friday night with two ex-Knicks in David Lee and Coach Mark Jackson.

  • [New York Times] Without Anthony, Knicks Crush Heat in Miami (Fri, 07 Dec 2012 05:54:20 GMT)
    The Miami Heat suffered their worst home defeat of the ‘Big Three’ era as the defending NBA champions crashed to a 112-92 loss to a New York Knicks team without their star forward Carmelo Anthony.

  • [New York Times] Without Melo, Knicks Top Heat 112-92 (Fri, 07 Dec 2012 05:09:29 GMT)
    Another Knicks-Heat game, another 20-point Knicks win.

  • [New York Times] Without Anthony, Knicks Crush Heat in Miami (Fri, 07 Dec 2012 04:24:20 GMT)
    The Miami Heat suffered their worst home defeat of the ‘Big Three’ era as the defending champions crashed to a 112-92 loss to a New York Knicks team without their star forward Carmelo Anthony.

  • [New York Times] Off the Dribble: Carmelo Anthony Sits Out Game Against Heat (Fri, 07 Dec 2012 01:16:19 GMT)
    After getting stitches for a cut finger, Carmelo Anthony was told by Coach Mike Woodson to sit out Thursday’s game against the Miami Heat.

  • [New York Daily News] FELT UP: Ray leads three spree as Knicks rout Heat (Fri, 07 Dec 2012 07:00:42 GMT)
    It is one thing to bully the likes of the Wizards, Suns and Hornets, and quite another to push LeBron James around and render Dwyane Wade and Chris Bosh useless. The Knicks, in every sense of the word, are legit.

  • [New York Daily News] Lawrence: Shorthanded Knicks torch Heat from deep (Fri, 07 Dec 2012 06:42:47 GMT)
    Long after the Knicks had made their 18th and final 3-pointer, LeBron James had to admit the obvious. “They kicked our ass,â? he said. Without Carmelo Anthony. Without Amar’e Stoudemire. Without Iman Shumpert. Go figure.

  • [New York Daily News] Finger injury forces Melo to miss Heat game (Fri, 07 Dec 2012 01:43:46 GMT)
    Carmelo Anthony ruled himself out of Thursday’s game against the Heat due to a lacerated left middle finger. Anthony, injured the in final 2:10 of Wednesday’s win over Charlotte, made the decision after going through shooting drills for 20 minutes and struggling to catch the ball cleanly with his non-shooting hand.

  • 54 comments on “Knicks Morning News (Friday, Dec 07 2012)

    1. DS

      On the one hand, I enjoyed last night’s game thoroughly.

      On the other hand, the Heat are not deep enough to dominate an 82 game season. I think it’s pretty clear they’re not playing every game as if it were Game 7 of the Finals in order to conserve energy and some elder players. I’d be shocked if they didn’t look better once the playoffs start. That might be obvious, but it’s a departure from the 80’s, 90’s, and 00’s when teams seemed to be more focused for greater portions of the season.

    2. thenamestsam

      The 7 unassisted 3-pointers the Knicks made last night were the most in the NBA in the last 4 years. The league average is one a game. Simply unbelievable shot-making last night. I’m still a little giddy.

    3. jon abbey

      DS:
      That might be obvious, but it’s a departure from the 80?s, 90?s, and 00?s when teams seemed to be more focused for greater portions of the season.

      I think the trend towards some top teams and players pacing themselves started with Charles Barkley on PHX in the nineties, he and Shaq were masters of this (as they began to age), I don’t listen to them much on TV but I would love to hear them honestly talk about this.

      the best example of a team is the one I cited recently, the defending champion (argh) 94-95 Rockets who went 47-35 and then beat four teams with way better records to win their second straight title. trading for Clyde Drexler mid-season didn’t hurt either, of course.

    4. johnlocke

      Yeh and by my count only 4 of the 18 were open threes …

      thenamestsam:
      The 7 unassisted 3-pointers the Knicks made last night were the most in the NBA in the last 4 years. The league average is one a game. Simply unbelievable shot-making last night. I’m still a little giddy.

    5. thenamestsam

      johnlocke:
      Yeh and by my count only 4 of the 18 were open threes …

      Wow. Thanks for taking the time to count and share that. Their defense is definitely having some issues, but we just broke their back last night with the difference in shooting. I mean how often do you see Ray Allen miss 3 wide open 3s in a game (including one from his favored left corner), or Bosh bricking 18 footer after 18 footer.

      I guess what I’m saying is I’m not sure we can consistently beat them by 20 on the road without Melo. :)

    6. billybaggs

      Incredible back to back victories, very happy Knick fan today…..I was wondering what it would take to bring Jimmer Fredette back to Ny, maybe James White and a second rounder….any thoughts on this? I would love to see him play with team!!!!

    7. billybaggs

      billybaggs:
      Incredible back to back victories, very happy Knick fan today…..I was wondering what it would take to bring Jimmer Fredette back to Ny, maybe James White and a second rounder….any thoughts on this? I would love to see him play with this team!!!!

    8. Z-man

      While Sheed’s shooting line didn’t look great, he made three huge plays that I felt helped keep the mojo going:

      1) Someone drove baseline (Cole?) and I could see what was going to happen before it did. Sheed stood tall and nonchalantely rejected the shot starting a trip the other way. I remember that heppening to me in my youth, when an old man would slap my shit away and laugh at me, saying,”Get that shit outta here, Sonny!”

      2) With 24 second clock running out, somehow Sheed figured out how to take an awkward jump-stem and fire a prayer at the rim, which missed but led to a new 24. Smart, amart play, a bit lucky but heady just the same.

      3) The missed tip, recovery and putback on the left side of the basket, great hands and use of length and position.

      I thought all of these plays were subtle parts of the road the the ultimate backbreaker. How beautiful was it to see Chandler receive that pass under the basket, and to see a totally flummoxed Heat team start walking off the court even before Chandler slammed it home? I was wondering if a foul had been called, but it was just utter realization that their asses were officially kicked.

    9. DS

      jon abbey: I think the trend towards some top teams and players pacing themselves started with Charles Barkley on PHX in the nineties, he and Shaq were masters of this (as they began to age), I don’t listen to them much on TV but I would love to hear them honestly talk about this.

      the best example of a team is the one I cited recently, the defending champion (argh) 94-95 Rockets who went 47-35 and then beat four teams with way better records to win their second straight title. trading for Clyde Drexler mid-season didn’t hurt either, of course.

      Did you not realize that Kenny Smith was a ’95 Rocket or is he just so annoying that you wouldn’t want to hear him talk about anything? You raise a good point. The only real insight these guys have is what it’s like to be a person in that situation but instead they give us terrible “analysis” on games…

      … I think depth is a factor in addition to aging. Mario Elie and Chucky Brown were 6th and 7th in minutes played during the ’95 Rockets’ playoff run. Before Miami traded for White Chocolate, ‘Toine, and Posey they were really thin (like, Damon Jones playing 31 MPG thin).

    10. DRed

      DS: Kenny Smith

      DS: Did you not realize that Kenny Smith was a ’95 Rocket or is he just so annoying that you wouldn’t want to hear him talk about anything?You raise a good point.

      Kenny Smith is from Queens. He used to play ball in my alley when I was a really little. He was definitely a Knicks fan growing up, so he’s at least not a hater like Chuck.

      Anyhow, Kenny and Chuck aren’t serious analysts-they’re just supposed to provide entertaining banter to get people interested in the broadcast. I like them (except for Shaq, who is turrible), but they’re nothing to say seriously.

    11. Juany8

      DRed:
      Kenny Smith is from Queens.He used to play ball in my alley when I was a really little.He was definitely a Knicks fan growing up, so he’s at least not a hater like Chuck.

      Anyhow, Kenny and Chuck aren’t serious analysts-they’re just supposed to provide entertaining banter to get people interested in the broadcast.I like them (except for Shaq, who is turrible), but they’re nothing to say seriously.

      I will say that Charles Barkley two years ago called both the Memhpis over San Antonio upset (for the reasons it happened) and that Dallas was the best team in the league. He gets basketball, he just has an agenda sometimes and ever since Shaq came and they had to get him involved it kind of ruined the show

    12. DS

      DRed:
      Kenny Smith is from Queens.He used to play ball in my alley when I was a really little.He was definitely a Knicks fan growing up, so he’s at least not a hater like Chuck.

      Anyhow, Kenny and Chuck aren’t serious analysts-they’re just supposed to provide entertaining banter to get people interested in the broadcast. I like them (except for Shaq, who is turrible), but they’re nothing to say seriously.

      Fair enough. I appreciate Kenny’s love for New York, but just find his rambling esp. annoying. I think I had mute games when he was working for MSG briefly. I still think Chuck is colorful, if not terribly accurate.

      Here’s a complete summary of what those clowns had to say last night: http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/miami-heat/heat-blog/sfl-miami-heat-charles-barkley-s120712,0,3378962.story

      Jon – Shaq actually DOES allude to “pacing” oneself as one ages.

    13. Owen

      Shaq totally killed the show for me. He is so obsessed with reminding everyone how much better he was as a player than Chuck, since Chuck is so much better at the broadcasting thing. It’s just awkward….

    14. d-mar

      You know, lost in all the Lin vs. Felton discussion (and I think that’s over) is the fact that we pursued Nash really hard and he was very close to signing with us. We are SOOOO much better with J Kidd (and not just because Nash is injured); sometimes the moves you don’t end up making turn out to be the best.

    15. BigBlueAL

      Kenny Smith has mentioned a few times when Shaq and Barkley talk about shooting 3pters is not gonna work in the playoffs and the whole live by the jumper die by the jumper crap that he has 2 rings because of 3pters and that it can work in the playoffs and win championships.

    16. ephus

      Let’s start with the obvious: Son of Wood for Coach of the Year. He has taken this team to a level of team defense that I did not think was possible. The ball movement on offense is spectacular. ‘Melo is playing balls-out and JR Smith is [largely] under control.

      Now a little more poignant. As some of you may know from my countless posts on the topic, I have turned my 9 year old daughter into a major Knick fan. She watches the games with me, can recite all of the players with their numbers and positions by heart, and give me an accurate recap if I leave the game for a minute. I have often wondered whether I did something horribly selfish by indoctrinating her to be a Knick fan, since we have only known heartbreak since 1973. I know she loves watching the games, but that is because she loves sharing something with me that I passionately love. I have been tormented by the question of whether I should have downplayed my Knicks’ passion to her, so that she would not have fallen into the love of the Orange and Blue.

      After last night, I am optimistic that I did the right thing. I have genuine hope that this team, as currently constituted, can contend for the championship. If STAT and Shumpert come back healthy and are integrated into the program, I have believe in my bones that the KNICKS HAVE MORE TALENT FROM 1 – 10 THAN ANY OTHER TEAM IN THE LEAGUE. I may be delusional, but that is my credo.

      I am so glad to be a Knick fan at this moment. I am glad my daughter is a Knick fan to share this ride with me:

      I find I’m so excited, I can barely sit still or hold a thought in my head. I think it’s the excitement only a free man can feel, a free man at the start of a long journey whose conclusion is uncertain. I hope I can make it across the border. I hope to see my friend and shake his hand. I hope the Pacific is as blue as it has been in my dreams. I hope.

      Call me Red [Holtzman].

    17. danvt

      Thoughts.

      Truly this team belongs to Tyson Chandler. Last year with Lin and this year even more so with Ray, you can just spread the floor and let them make play after play in the P&R. People say the 3pt efficiency is going to come down but I don’t think so because we’re playing inside out. Not traditional post play from Tyson but he commands a lot of attention now. It’s hard for defenders to recover. Plus we have great passing on the perimeter. So if the first catch back outside is covered we swing it FOR THE LITTLE JAMES WHITE SIDE JUMPER!!

    18. nicos

      d-mar:
      You know, lost in all the Lin vs. Felton discussion (and I think that’s over) is the fact that we pursued Nash really hard and he was very close to signing with us. We are SOOOO much better with J Kidd (and not just because Nash is injured); sometimes the moves you don’t end up making turn out to be the best.

      I think the key is we got Kidd AND Felton rather than Nash. Kidd has really benefitted by playing off of the ball. He’s posting a career low TOV% of just 10.2- he’s never been under 15% before and has been over 20% in each of the last seven seasons. Kidd’s no longer a top five point guard (or even top ten) but he’s been absolutely sensational at the two.

    19. d-mar

      nicos: I think the key is we got Kidd AND Felton rather than Nash.Kidd has really benefitted by playing off of the ball. He’s posting a career low TOV% of just 10.2- he’s never been under 15% before and has been over 20% in each of the last seven seasons.Kidd’s no longer a top five point guard (or even top ten) but he’s been absolutely sensational at the two.

      Excellent point. And I love how those two never panic when the other team goes on a run (like last night when the Heat looked like they were going to go on a major one in the 1st half) Their demeanor never changes, they just run the offense and get back into the game.

    20. Frank

      nicos: I think the key is we got Kidd AND Felton rather than Nash.Kidd has really benefitted by playing off of the ball. He’s posting a career low TOV% of just 10.2- he’s never been under 15% before and has been over 20% in each of the last seven seasons.Kidd’s no longer a top five point guard (or even top ten) but he’s been absolutely sensational at the two.

      Meanwhile, how great is it that we are essentially paying the same money COMBINED to our 2-guard types (JR 2.8, Kidd 3.1, Brewer 1.1 (of which only ~400K is paid by team I think) as Toronto is paying just to Landry Fields in average salary? Grunwald deserves executive of the year just for that.

    21. daJudge

      There is a real joy in watching this team move the ball and play music that actually harmonizes. It’s not just the winning either. There are a number of characters in this play like Sheed and Earl, odd couples, like Novak and Earl, guards that look like ducks (Raymond), a star who is becoming a real mensch before our very eyes, beasts like Chandler, an old wizard (Kidd) and of course, Prigs. What can I say about Prigs, but I think he will steal an inbounds every game for the rest of the damn year. Can’t forget Coach, who looks like the guy inside the plastic bubble with the metal filings and the magnet—‘Wooly Woodson’. And Z-Man, I still get my shot blocked regularly by guys that say, “get that shit out a here”, but I’m the old guy.

      Z-man:
      http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nba-ball-dont-lie/without-melo-knicks-rain-18-3-pointers-heat-154857674–nba.html

      This article has a montage of the 18 3?s. Some of the passing is just jaw-dropping, the best I’ve seen since the ’70?s.

    22. daJudge

      You know Felton’s situation is really interesting. He got a shot with the Knicks, played well and got traded. Of course he never wanted to get traded, and he ate and he sulked. Now he’s got a second shot and is driving and thriving, shaking and baking and posting and toasting. What other NBA players fit this pattern? Coach Wood kind of fits too, but I know there are other’s. I can’t name them off hand and now I need to cook a lot of brisket for tomorrow.

    23. nicos

      Here’s a question- if Kidd keeps up even close to this level of play, should he start at the 2 in the all-star game? It’ll almost certainly be Wade but you can make the argument that Kidd’s been the best 2 guard in the East and almost certainly a top five 2 guard overall.

    24. JK47

      I’m not watching the Nuggets-Pacers game because I’m in Spain right now but I can’t help but notice that David West is 8-9 from the floor and Kenneth Faried is -13 for the game. I’m guessing these two things are related.

    25. JK47

      Also, the Bulls will be facing us in the second game of a back-to-back tomorrow, and tonight they’re playing a short 8-man rotation against a woeful Detroit team and losing at the half. So that’s nice.

    26. BigBlueAL

      JK47:
      I’m not watching the Nuggets-Pacers game because I’m in Spain right now but I can’t help but notice that David West is 8-9 from the floor and Kenneth Faried is -13 for the game.I’m guessing these two things are related.

      Go to a Real Madrid or Barcelona game!!!

    27. BigBlueAL

      Heard Jeff Van Gundy on the Dan Le Batard radio show today along with Stan Van Gundy and JVG had a funny comment. Le Batard asked him if he thought the Knicks can beat the Heat in the playoffs because Stan said no and JVG said dont listen to Stan’s take on Knicks-Heat playoff matchups because he always thought the Heat were going to beat the Knicks when JVG was coaching the Knicks and Stan was always wrong lol

    28. Conor

      Owen:
      Shaq totally killed the show for me. He is so obsessed with reminding everyone how much better he was as a player than Chuck, since Chuck is so much better at the broadcasting thing. It’s just awkward….

      Totally agree. Shaq is also clearly very sensitive about the FT knocks, because he always claims he “made them when it counts” whenever they bring it up.

      Did anyone see the Open Court episode where he claimed Dream team 2 (94 world championships) would beat the original dream team? He was listing the guys on the team, and he’s like “we got Joe Dumars, Dan Majerle, Reggie Miller” like that it supposed to be impressive. Dream Team 1 had Michael Jordan at the 2, I think he’d be able to handle Dumars or Thunder Dan.

    29. Z-man

      BTW, a question for the “no brainer”camp: would having a massive luxury tax hit for a third/fourth string PG have affected our chances of signing Brewer and/or JR to a long term deal?

    30. Juany8

      Z-man:
      BTW, a question for the “no brainer”camp: would having a massive luxury tax hit for a third/fourth string PG have affected our chances of signing Brewer and/or JR to a long term deal?

      I think it’s become blatantly obvious there’s a line teams aren’t willing to cross when it comes to the luxury tax. Dallas, OKC, New York, and even the Lakers have all made some cost cutting moves since the new CBA came out. Everyone talked about OKC being a small market, but I’m pretty sure the issue is not paying money but having flexibility. There’s a chance to keep some of the younger role players, like Felton, JR, and Brewer, for the rest of Melo and Chandler’s window. Whatever Amar’e gives this team, it’s clear they can contend with this core, although Jason Kidd will be very hard to replace.

      I also can’t help but wonder if Amar’e could be traded if Shump and maybe Novak are involved. Maybe getting some added depth makes getting Amar’e more attractive for the Lakers, and I seriously just laugh when I think of the potential of this team with Pau. The Lakers haven’t had the spacing to make their big men lineups work since Odom left and Fisher and Artest forgot how to shoot. That clearly isn’t a problem on this Knicks team, and Pau’s passing and shooting are a tremendous fit next to Chandler. Of course I’m probably day dreaming, I guess we’ll see what happens when they come back, I love Shump but don’t see the space for him

    31. jon abbey

      just noticed that Chandler is second in the league in TS% among guys who have 200+ minutes, right in between noted offensive legends Hasheem Thabeet and Chris Wilcox. :)

    32. jon abbey

      interesting matchup tomorrow/tonight, CHI has a really weak backcourt with Rose and Hamilton out and their starters all played a ton tonight. Noah had the best game of his career with 30 points/23 boards, Chandler’s going to have his work cut out for him in this one if Chicago isn’t too exhausted from tonight. NY has lost 17 of their last 20 in Chicago, it’d be nice to get a W there.

    33. Brian Cronin

      Is the League always this top heavy? It is insane to me that the Knicks are 14-4 and three teams have better records!! Three!! How does that make any sense? It’s probably always been like this and I just haven’t paid attention since the Knicks haven’t been in this situation in so long, but still, seems nuts. 14-4 is not even in the top three records in the NBA?!?!

    34. mokers

      One of the great things about the Knicks success is that we have had a heavy road schedule early. Only the spurs and okc have better road records. Of course the Knicks have the best home record. In the conference, only Cleveland and Toronto have played as few home games as the Knicks.

      It’s also the reason I think the nuggets can go on a monster run. They have played 14 road games already and just 6 at home. It’s also why the lakers could be in trouble as they have only has 8 road games and are 2-6.

    35. Frank

      Juany8: Shump and maybe Novak are involved. Maybe getting some added depth makes getting Amar’e more attractive for the Lakers, and I seriously just laugh when I think of the potential of this team with Pau. The Lakers haven’t had the spacing to make their big men lineups work since Odom left and Fisher and Artest forgot how to shoot. That clearly isn’t a problem on this Knicks team, and Pau’s passing and shooting are a tremendous fit next to Chandler. Of course I’m probably day dreaming, I guess we’ll see what happens when they come back, I love Shump but don’t see the space for him

      Usually agree with you but there really is no reason to make this deal. We are the 1 seed in the eastern conference and just spanked the defending champs in their own building. And we’ve gotten nothing from 3 guys that we were expecting to rely heavily on in Camby, Shumpert, and Amare. And with our starting unit, which has absolutely destroyed other teams, the spacing without Amare and with Melo at the 4 is why it has been such a great unit. If you throw Gasol in there, that spacing goes away. Yes he is a great player and passer but I’m pretty sure his presence will make that deadly PNR less effective. Then you’re trading away our best 3 point shooter AND our only high ceiling young talent? Remember, JR, Brewer, and Prigioni could all be gone next year, and Kidd is 58 years old. If not this year, we will definitely need Shumpert going forward.

    36. Frank

      That’s the scary thing about this team though- I really see no weaknesses. When Amare/Shumpert/Camby get back, we will literally be 3 deep at every spot with guys that can PLAY, not just filler. Next year we will probably have some spots to fill, but this year?

      Front court depth? Check
      3 point shooting? Apparently awesome
      PG depth? 3 solid PGs compared to zero last year
      Bailout scoring? Lots of “shot creators”if we need them
      Post scoring? Check
      Best PNR in the league? check, EVEN WITHOUT AMARE
      Team defense? Excellent even without arguably our best perimeter on ball defender and without the best rebounder in the league

      This team is scary. At this point and especially considering the sorry state of the eastern conference, I’d be crushed if we are not a top 2 seed. Maybe I’m just drinking the kool aid but 32-10 is not a hot streak- it’s domination.

    37. Juany8

      Frank: Usually agree with you but there really is no reason to make this deal. We are the 1 seed in the eastern conference and just spanked the defending champs in their own building. And we’ve gotten nothing from 3 guys that we were expecting to rely heavily on in Camby, Shumpert, and Amare. And with our starting unit, which has absolutely destroyed other teams, the spacing without Amare and with Melo at the 4 is why it has been such a great unit. If you throw Gasol in there, that spacing goes away. Yes he is a great player and passer but I’m pretty sure his presence will make that deadly PNR less effective. Then you’re trading away our best 3 point shooter AND our only high ceiling young talent? Remember, JR, Brewer, and Prigioni could all be gone next year, and Kidd is 58 years old. If not this year, we will definitely need Shumpert going forward.

      I don’t disagree with this overall except for the fact that I don’t see why Amar’e would do any better with the starting lineup than Pau Gasol. Personally I wanted to say Ryan Anderson more than anybody (although he’s not worth giving up Shump and Novak) but I don’t want THCJ and Owen talking about how the Knicks would win 70 games if they would just bench Melo lol.

      I’ve been drinking the Kool-aid since we started 3-0, the way this team plays is simply the way the best teams in the league play, on offense and defense. The Knicks have the best 3 point shooting in the league not because they have the best 3 point shooters, but because they’re getting the most open 3 looks. As THCJ and Owen are actually right about, NBA players will make open shots, and they will mostly shoot at their given efficiency. So the only thing that matters in offense is players and coaches that can give you a good distribution of shots. Right now, no one does it better than Kidd, Melo, Felton, and Chandler

    38. Juany8

      I would like to hammer point the home that the Knicks played just as well last year with Woodson with guys like Baron Davis and Landry Fields taking the spots of Raymond Felton and Ronnie Brewer. It also had Jorts in place of Rasheed, and there was no Jason Kidd to make everything work. They still dominated a tough schedule and went like 18-6. This team works because of Melo, Chandler, and Woodson, the role players they added just make them a proper contender. I really think that other than Jason Kidd, every player we signed this season is pretty replaceable. The Knicks got Novak, Brewer, Felton, and Camby for virtually nothing, and it’s not because they were unknown players like Jeremy Lin that hadn’t been given a chance. As long as veteran players around the league respect this core and like living in New York while playing for a contender and awesome coach (is there any doubt that Woody is coach of the year?) the Knicks will keep getting nice role players for dirt cheap. Hell I think the Knicks overpayed Novak, Carlos Delfino was out there and I like him better as a gunner on the team, he can actually do stuff with the ball in his hands and a defender nearby, while providing average defense. I can’t ignore how poorly players like Korver, Novak, and Bonner tend to play once the playoffs start though, one dimensional 3 point shooters simply become black holes when the defense can close out on them every time, and they all happen to suck at defense.

    39. johnno

      Juany8: I also can’t help but wonder if Amar’e could be traded if Shump and maybe Novak are involved. Maybe getting some added depth makes getting Amar’e more attractive for the Lakers, and I seriously just laugh when I think of the potential of this team with Pau

      Five problems with this —
      – Pau has as much potential (or maybe more, since there’s at least a chance that Amare will accept a lesser role, and Pau is already whining about not enough “touches”) to disrupt team chemistry as Amare, especially since his presence would mean Melo’s not playing the 4.
      – Pau has been terrible this year, is 2 years older than Amare and has tendinitis in BOTH knees. Tendenitis tends to linger and not just go away, and he said last night that he has no idea when he will play.
      – You’re giving away the best outside shooter in the league and his ability to spread the floor has been critical to the Knicks’ success so far. Who fills his role?
      – You’re giving away the best perimeter defender on the team, who also can serve as an emergency point guard. What if Brewer gets hurt? What if the long season takes its toll on Kidd and Prigioni?
      – You point out that the Lakers might be interested in doing the deal to “add depth.” Depth is a Knicks strength. Why would they give up one of their biggest strengths?

    40. The Honorable Cock Jowles

      I wouldn’t make that deal. Gasol for Amar’e straight up? Sure, in a heartbeat. But throwing in one of the best (if not the best) 3-pt shooter for an aging player who hasn’t been particularly good over the last two seasons? No thanks.

    41. Z-man

      Yeah, I don’t like that deal either but make the Amare straight up deal. Maybe throw in Camby now that Sheed has proven he can be a viable backup, or someone like White (lakers need backcourt depth) but not Shump, who is a potential star if his shooting continues to improve. I’m not a big believer in Brewer’s O but he made some incredible defensive plays vs. Heat.

      Kidd is indispensable, he is the brains of this team. Even if he only plays 5-10 mpg, his calming presence in the huddle is huge. Players listen to him, even Melo, Felton and JR.

    42. Z-man

      @40 The one thing we lack is an inside banger (e.g. Reggie Evans.) Our primary rebounders are long guys with high centers of gravity (Chandler, Sheed, Camby) and Thomas is too old and slow to fill this role. The Nets and Griz seemed to have their way with us on the boards at times. It’s not a huge deal, and maybe a healthy Camby can mask this void even more, but just something I noticed.

    43. d-mar

      You know, as Knicks fans we are conditioned to expect the worst, even when things are going well. It can’t be this good, something horrible has to happen, right? Well, the beauty of this team is we can afford to lose almost any player for a few games or even a few weeks and still survive. Even if Melo went out for a couple of weeks, this team could play .500 ball at a minimum. Tyson being out would hurt a lot, but with Sheed, and eventually Camby and STAT in the wings, we could survive that as well. So for those who say health is the critical issue for this team (and isn’t it for every team?) I would disagree and point to our ridiculous depth.

      (Now health come playoff time, that’s a whole other story!)

    44. Juany8

      I admit that Pau Gasol is not the ideal candidate, but as it stands it’s going to be tough to find minutes for everyone on this team. They already have a full rotation, if the goal is winning a championship then it’s better to concentrate your talent in your top 7 rather than on spots 8-11. I would prefer someone like Lamarcus Aldridge or Ryan Anderson, but getting Amar’e and Shump back is going to squeeze productive players out of the rotation, and I honestly have no faith in someone like Novak actually producing anything in the playoffs. I really like Shump, but the reasons I like him are also why he’s the only truly valuable trade chip on this team.

      I’d rather a legit piece and give up Shump and Novak than just bench guys like Prigs or even Brewer because there’s no minutes. Everyone risks injuries, if Wade just breaks down and Ray Allen tweaks his ankle in the playoffs, all of the sudden the Knicks would be the favorites to make the Finals. At this point, the Knicks aren’t trying to win a bunch of games and look cool in the standings, they’re looking straight at postseason strategy. Guys like Chandler, Kidd, and Sheed aren’t here to get excited about a 60 win season. Sacrificing 15 minute players for a key rotation player makes perfect sense to me.

      I will say that I’m coming around to Pau Gasol not being the right guy, I will agree with you guys on that.

    45. johnno

      Juany8: I will say that I’m coming around to Pau Gasol not being the right guy, I will agree with you guys on that.

      But why make any trade at all? We’re not playing fantasy basketball, where you can just plug guys in statistically — whether you’re talking old school ppg and rpg, or “advanced” stuff like wins produced or win shares or efficiency or plus/minus, etc., etc. Chemistry matters and right now the Knicks have great chemistry. Why mess with it when things are going well? Why not wait to see how Amare and Shump play out? It’s a loonnnngggg season. It might work out really well, especially since neither is physically going to be able to jump right in and play 35 minutes a night anyway. They will have to be slowly worked into the rotation. If it doesn’t work, then you think about a trade. The deadline is almost three months away.

    46. jon abbey

      yeah, no reason to make a trade, especially since most of our role players don’t have huge value for other teams.

    47. Z-man

      Gasol would be a nice piece (if healthy) but Sheed is a poor man’s Gasol so there is no urgency there. My biggest issue with this team is that we don’t have a guard who shoots consistently well coming off the bench. JR is amazing at times but very erratic, Felton is also hot and cold, Kidd really doesn’t fit that role, Prigs, forget it. Shump and Brewer are similarly limited offensively. Obviously, any guy like that who isn’t a serious liability in some way is not going to come on the cheap. Maybe with Melo and soon Amare this is less of a need, especially if we move and protect the ball as well as we have been.

      Overall, though, I’m totally fine with finishing out the season with what we have, and have so much faith in Glen G that I feel he would only pull the trigger on a no-brainer type of deal. The team is playing the best ball in the EC by any objective standard, and has an impressive road record as well. I guarantee that every team in the league is taking notice. This next stretch of games will really test us, though.

    48. Z-man

      I will say this, we have been a bit fortunate as well. The Melo injury gives him some rest at a good time, and winning the these last two games ensures that it won’t cost us much in the standings. Kidd getting a rest is always a good thing. And after these two games, we don’t have another back-to-back for a couple of weeks, and have lots of games at home and Brooklyn. We could separate ourselves from other EC teams a bit by New Year’s.

    49. johnno

      Juany8: Hell I think the Knicks overpayed Novak, Carlos Delfino was out there and I like him better as a gunner on the team, he can actually do stuff with the ball in his hands and a defender nearby, while providing average defense.

      More than a few problems with your Delfino preference —
      – While he was “out there,” the Knicks couldn’t have signed him. He’s making $3 million this year and the Knicks could have only offered him the vet minimum. They were able to pay Novak what they did because they had his Bird rights. They couldn’t just take that money and use it to pay Delfino.
      – He’s 6’6″. Whose minutes do you want him to take — Kidd, Felton, Shumpert, Brewer, Prigioni or JR? If he took minutes from any of those guys, it would be a lateral move at best, not an improvement.
      – A Delfino-Novak comparison is not apples to apples. Novak is 6’10”, which presents unique problems for the other team. They can put a guard on him, in which case he’ll shoot over him, or they can put a “big” on him, in which case he takes one of the big defenders/rebounders away from the lane. Other teams can put a guard on Delfino, which doesn’t space the floor as much as having a 6’10” sharpshooter. Besides that, over the last two years, Novak has hit 46%v of his 3 pointers, while Delfino has hit 36%. That is a huge difference. A Delfino-JR comparison is much more apt, in which case you can say that, while Delfino is more consistent than JR, he is nowhere near as athletic and explosive. If you want to compare Novak to Ryan Anderson, that is a much more reasonable comparison and I would agree with you that Anderson is better, but the Knicks had no way to get him.

    50. Juany8

      Johno,

      It was a one year deal, I think he would have considered coming to the Knicks had they offered the minimum but who knows? Anyways, although you have some good points about Novak’s advantages, you left out his weaknesses. He is easily the Knicks worst defender, and it is not close. That same height that makes him a mismatch on offense makes him a mismatch everywhere on defense. Delfino is at least an average defender.

      One thing that’s also ignored far too often about Novak’s offensive skills is his complete lack of ability to do anything but shoot. It’s nice when all the looks are wide open, but if he has a defender closing out on him he doesn’t make the extra pass, or pump and make a dribble inside, or drive past his out of control defender, all things Delfino is capable of doing. Instead, Novak has to sit there and essentially wait and waste precious shot clock time waiting for someone to come rescue him and take the ball away. That’s a very underrated limitation for a 3 point specialist, in the playoffs especially those wide open looks tend to dry up and you have to be able to make a play other than shooting when the ball comes to you. Bonner, Korver, and even Novak last year were all useless in the playoffs, becoming black holes where a possession went to die, except for like once or twice a game in transition. If Amar’e and Shump come back healthy somebody is getting squeezed our of the rotation, and I’m pretty sure it’s going to be Novak

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