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Saturday, April 19, 2014

Knicks Morning News (Friday, Aug 10 2012)

  • [New York Times] Lakers Set to Obtain Dwight Howard in Four-Team Trade (Fri, 10 Aug 2012 06:20:06 GMT)
    Under the proposed deal, the Lakers would acquire Dwight Howard, the N.B.A.’s top center, from Orlando while sending their own All-Star center, Andrew Bynum, to Philadelphia.

  • [New York Times] Lakers Complete Deal to Acquire Dwight Howard: Report (Fri, 10 Aug 2012 04:23:30 GMT)
    The Los Angeles Lakers have reached a deal to land six-time All-Star Dwight Howard from the Orlando Magic as part of a four-team trade including the Philadelphia 76ers and Denver Nuggets, ESPN reported on Thursday.

  • [New York Times] Reports: Dwight Howard Headed to Lakers (Fri, 10 Aug 2012 09:11:40 GMT)
    The Los Angeles Lakers have a deal in place to acquire Dwight Howard from Orlando in a four-team, eight-player trade also involving Denver and Philadelphia, and the NBA has scheduled a conference call Friday with the four general managers to finish the deal, according to multiple reports.

  • [New York Post] Melo’s tight hammy brings trainer back (Fri, 10 Aug 2012 04:20:34 -0500)
    LONDON â?? Team USA forward Carmelo Anthony said at yesterday’s Olympic practice he is dealing with a “tight” left hamstring, causing Knicks trainer Anthony Goenaga to be summoned back to London to work with him.
    Goenaga was with Team USA early in these Games working with Anthony and Tyson Chandler…

  • [New York Post] U.S. set for Argentine rematch (Fri, 10 Aug 2012 03:41:53 -0500)
    LONDON â?? To Argentina’s Pablo Prigioni, Carmelo Anthony is still the enemy, so he had little sympathy for his future Knicks teammate.
    The U.S. men’s basketball team faces Argentina Friday night in the Olympics semifinals at North Greenwich Arena and bad blood still festers from Saturday’s showdown…

  • 101 comments on “Knicks Morning News (Friday, Aug 10 2012)

    1. SeeWhyDee77

      Since I missed the previous thread..allow me to issue my hate for the D12 trade here. At first, I was in love with the trade although I’d rather see Bynum land in Cleveland. I loved it because the 1st version I heard had Gasol and Afflalo goin to Orlando and Harrington and Howard goin to LA. But now?? I guess Stern is letting LA get away with murder in return for takin CP3 away from them. Seriously?/ They get to keep Gasol AND Howard???? WTF??? This is the third steal of the century in the past few years for them. Let’s see….they stole Pau for Marc (who ended up bein a nice player), Stole Nash for next to nothin, and now stole a franchise cornerstone for a 2nd option while keeping a perennial all star in Gasol Now they have incredible enviable roster flexibility. Don’t get me wrong..I like Bynum and I think he will flourish in Philly. And I think as an all around player he is almost on Howard’s level. But he’s still not good enuf to essentially swap for Howard. He had 1 really good season where he was more consistent than he has ever been. But he still disappears too much. Howard has played at an all star level every season of his career. I know the numbers work but Orlando didn’t even gain any real cap relief as Harrington and Richardson’s contracts are nearly identical. Gasol and Turk should’ve been thrown into that trade somehow. But now LA has all kinds of possibilities. Gasol for Horford or Smith?? Gasol for Noah?? Just anything. They can use Gasol now to get younger AND better. Yup..I’m a hater today.
      In other news..I saw the video of Stat workin with Olajuwon and I must say..I am seriously intrigued and anxious to see it on the court. Watchin it validated that if he wanted to, Stat can do almost anything on the court. He already has the requisite quickness to thrive in the paint in the myriad of ways Olajuwon did. But this is Stat so I must temper my excitement…sigh..

    2. Frank O.

      I confess a year ago I was saying Howard was the most dominant center in basketball, but the aw y he has behaved has changed my view of him.
      First, last year, he instigates for a trade, jerks his teammates around, then signs the option, then almost immediately instigates for a trade.
      His team and he was the team most likely to quit, got blown out more than any other team in the nba. And he just lacked heart, and character.
      So, I kind of think he’s a giant schmuck, and given his character, I kind of think he won’t ever win a championship, so long as he is “the guy” for his team.
      On the other hand, I think this will be great for Bynum – bad for the Knicks – getting to be the guy. I think Kobe retards his teammates these days.

    3. Juany8

      Frank O.:
      I confess a year ago I was saying Howard was the most dominant center in basketball, but the aw y he has behaved has changed my view of him.
      First, last year, he instigates for a trade, jerks his teammates around, then signs the option, then almost immediately instigates for a trade.
      His team and he was the team most likely to quit, got blown out more than any other team in the nba. And he just lacked heart, and character.
      So, I kind of think he’s a giant schmuck, and given his character, I kind of think he won’t ever win a championship, so long as he is “the guy” for his team.
      On the other hand, I think this will be great for Bynum – bad for the Knicks – getting to be the guy. I think Kobe retards his teammates these days.

      Howard won’t have to be the guy though. On LA’s roster, there are 3 other people that deserve to have the ball in their hands just as much. Howard can basically play like a Tyson Chandler on steroids, and against a smaller team like the Heat he’ll be able to feast inside. The Lakers are also possibly the best rebounding team in the league now, it’s nowhere near as bad if Kobe is missing shots if they’re getting constantly rebounded anyways.

    4. thenamestsam

      A couple thoughts:

      1. Imagine an NBA Final 4 of OKC against the Lakers and Miami against NY or Boston. Wow. Both David Stern and I just got a little too excited.

      2. I think everyone is getting a little ahead of themselves declaring the Lakers champions. The Heat are very legit and will clearly have the easier road to the finals. The Lakers now have the highest ceiling in my opinion, but with mismatched pieces, an ancient backcourt, no bench to speak of, Howard coming off back surgery and a potentially overmatched coach I think there’s a very good chance they fall short of that ceiling.

    5. thenamestsam

      Oh, also we don’t know for sure what other offers Orlando had on the table over the last 18 months, but it’s very hard to be believe this was the best one. They got essentially five first rounders once you count Harkless and Vucevic, but no lottery picks and no potential stars and they had to take back one terrible contract. I like Afflalo but I think he’s making essentially what he’s worth. He’s not a great asset by any means. It’s extremely hard for me to believe that Morey went through all those gymnastics and never made a better offer than this.

    6. ephus

      With the Howard trade, the Nets are locked into this roster for the next year (and probably more). I do not think they are someplace between a 5 and 8 seed in the East, with few obvious ways to upgrade the team. They will be over the Apron, so they will not be able to either sign free agents or acquire any through a sign and trade. They are going to be a really bad interior defensive team, and slow (but strong) on the perimeter.

      The miniscule odds of Chris Paul forcing his way to the Knicks probably went up slightly with this trade. CP3 has to know that he and Griffin are unlikely to lead a team through both OKC and the Lakers for the next two years. Plus, the paltry return that Orlando got for Howard makes the Knicks potential offering non-laughable.

    7. ephus

      thenamestsam: Oh, also we don’t know for sure what other offers Orlando had on the table over the last 18 months, but it’s very hard to be believe this was the best one. They got essentially five first rounders once you count Harkless and Vucevic, but no lottery picks and no potential stars and they had to take back one terrible contract. I like Afflalo but I think he’s making essentially what he’s worth. He’s not a great asset by any means. It’s extremely hard for me to believe that Morey went through all those gymnastics and never made a better offer than this.

      Woj is reporting that the Nets last offer in July was 4 unprotected first round picks, Brook Lopez, Marshon Brooks and Kris Humphries (@$9.6 million for one year) for Howard, Duhon, Clark and J. Richardson (what Orlando is reported to be sending out in this trade). I understand why Orlando preferred this package, because I think Brook Lopez cannot be one of the top three pieces of a successful team.

    8. thenamestsam

      ephus: Woj is reporting that the Nets last offer in July was 4 unprotected first round picks, Brook Lopez, Marshon Brooks and Kris Humphries (@$9.6 million for one year) for Howard, Duhon, Clark and J. Richardson (what Orlando is reported to be sending out in this trade).I understand why Orlando preferred this package, because I think Brook Lopez cannot be one of the top three pieces of a successful team.

      Yeah, I understand the preference for this package over the Nets package although they’re going to be paying Harrington+Afflalo a very similar salary to what they would have paid Brook right? And I don’t think that’s any more of a winning recipe.

      The mystery to me is Houston. They clearly wanted Howard. They wouldn’t have been giving back any bad long term deals. And they could have matched the supply of non-lottery 1st rounders easily while also having Toronto’s guaranteed lottery pick to throw in which is worth at least 2 or 3 of those protected picks. Did they never make that offer? Did Hennigan really prefer what he got?

    9. johnlocke

      I think Howard made it clear he definitely wouldn’t resign there, so that probably left them out of the running.
      Key questions
      - Where does this leave Lin’s Rockets, re: room for improvement?
      - After they got Gasol for a song, now they get Howard for Bynum? Why is there FO so much better than ours? Oh yeh, Dolan!
      - Nash, Kobe, Metta, Gasol, Howard – there is not a better starting lineup in the league is there?
      Other thoughts:
      Happy Howard got traded out of the conference — that helps the Knicks
      Iggy is an exciting piece for the Nuggets – they still don’t get past the 2nd round and have no chance of the WCF. They still don’t have a top 10-25 player.
      Orlando – welcome to rebuilding hell.
      ATL – let the Howard to Atlanta Hawks talk begin..now!

      thenamestsam: Yeah, I understand the preference for this package over the Nets package although they’re going to be paying Harrington+Afflalo a very similar salary to what they would have paid Brook right? And I don’t think that’s any more of a winning recipe.

      The mystery to me is Houston. They clearly wanted Howard. They wouldn’t have been giving back any bad long term deals. And they could have matched the supply of non-lottery 1st rounders easily while also having Toronto’s guaranteed lottery pick to throw in which is worth at least 2 or 3 of those protected picks. Did they never make that offer? Did Hennigan really prefer what he got?

    10. thenamestsam

      johnlocke:
      I think Howard made it clear he definitely wouldn’t resign there, so that probably left them out of the running.

      Key questions
      -Why is there FO so much better than ours? Oh yeh, Dolan!

      According to Woj tweet from 15 minutes ago they still offered everything we assumed they offered – space isntead of Afflalo, recent 1sts, future 1sts including a lottery pick and no Harrington. I think they were (smartly) willing to chance it since he had no better options really. Where was he going to go?

      The contrast between the Lakers and Knicks is so stark. One of my first thoughts last night was how similar we SHOULD be to them. Great market, great building, devoted fans etc. And yet almost every year for the last 35 they’ve had a true superstar player on a contending team. Really frustrating.

    11. johnlocke

      Stop it man! You’re going to have wild google searches for Shump flying around

      New Guy:
      It’s now a 5 team trade.Dolan threw Shump in.

    12. Jafa

      @8:

      I think Hennigan got taken to school. The Houston offer was better than this offer for all the reasons you listed. And there has been no indication that Houston wouldn’t listen again if Orlando called.

      Where does this leave Houston? Well, as many have pointed out, the Lakers can now move Gasol for a SF and/or bench players to deepen their team. The best SF for them would have been Iggy, but he is now in Denver. Houston has lots of good players on cheap deals than can fill out the Lakers’ bench and I assume Houston is still fond of Gasol. I would not be surprised if this trade happens next.

    13. ephus

      thenamestsam: The mystery to me is Houston. They clearly wanted Howard. They wouldn’t have been giving back any bad long term deals. And they could have matched the supply of non-lottery 1st rounders easily while also having Toronto’s guaranteed lottery pick to throw in which is worth at least 2 or 3 of those protected picks. Did they never make that offer? Did Hennigan really prefer what he got?

      According to John Hollinger, Alex Martins (team president) not Henninger was the decision maker here.

      On the substance, I think Orlando got too little, unless Harkless is a special wing player. Afflalo and Harrington are known quantities. Orlando is betting a lot that Harkless is better than Houston’s recent picks.

      I am surprised that Orlando would take lottery-protected picks that are spread over the next five years. At a minimum, they should have demanded that the Lakers not protect their first round pick in 2017.

    14. knicknyk

      Jafa:
      @8:

      I think Hennigan got taken to school.The Houston offer was better than this offer for all the reasons you listed.And there has been no indication that Houston wouldn’t listen again if Orlando called.

      Where does this leave Houston?Well, as many have pointed out, the Lakers can now move Gasol for a SF and/or bench players to deepen their team.The best SF for them would have been Iggy, but he is now in Denver.Houston has lots of good players on cheap deals than can fill out the Lakers’ bench and I assume Houston is still fond of Gasol.I would not be surprised if this trade happens next.

      The rockets once were high on Pau, now probably not anymore. I think they are definitely going to rebuild.

    15. Gideon Zaga

      Hahahaha the rich get richer. Most def. So glad I live in LA half of the year most times and I think I’ll be here when the Knicks come to town. This is great. This is fun. Knicks need more firepower.

    16. JC Knickfan

      johnlocke:
      I think Howard made it clear he definitely wouldn’t resign there, so that probably left them out of the running.
      Key questions
      - Where does this leave Lin’s Rockets, re: room for improvement?
      - After they got Gasol for a song, now they get Howard for Bynum? Why is there FO so much better than ours? Oh yeh, Dolan!
      - Nash, Kobe, Metta, Gasol, Howard – there is not a better starting lineup in the league is there?
      Other thoughts:
      Happy Howard got traded out of the conference — that helps the Knicks
      Iggy is an exciting piece for the Nuggets – they still don’t get past the 2nd round and have no chance of the WCF. They still don’t have a top 10-25 player.
      Orlando – welcome to rebuilding hell.
      ATL – let the Howard to Atlanta Hawks talk begin..now!

      Morey said he take D12 with out extension. Basically Houston would own Bird-rights and could do S&T next offseason and possible parley that even better deal. It’s a risk, but all quotes from Morey say he was willing to do this.

      Also D12 enjoy time maybe then would resign. No state tax in Texas and Lin could possible get D12 more sponsors with Asian market.

      http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/8254353/nba-offseason-dwight-howard-deal-head-scratcher-magic
      The picks Orlando got, 2 of them are not even for next year. Like title say “Head scratcher”

    17. thenamestsam

      In terms of league implications it’s also interesting to note that this has to force the Thunder to hesitate in their plans to amnesty Perk if that was part of their plan to escape their luxury tax hell. Perkins would be a pretty important part of a Lakers-OKC matchup presumably and it’s Ibaka who might be the odd man out in that series.

    18. thenamestsam

      And something funny that I saw someone tweet:

      If you were starting a team and could pick a nine man rotation from the Lakers and Heat or all the other teams, which would you pick?

      Lakers and Heat gives you:

      Nash/Wade/Kobe/Allen guards
      Lebron/Metta swingmen
      Howard/Pau/Bosh bigs

      Rest of the league obviously has better depth but I think it’s pretty darn close in terms of who you’d pick.

    19. Count de Pennies

      Well, the success of this deal from the Lakers’ perspective will largely hinge on Kobe’s ego.

      He’s always wanted to be the Alpha Dog. Even as a young punk teamed up with an in-his-prime-and-still-dominant Shaq, he visibly chafed at playing the role of second banana.

      Now, he’s a 35-year old jump shooter who no longer has the quicks to break defenders down and regularly take it to the rack. Realistically, he’s probably the 3rd best offensive option on that team. Whether he now has the self-awareness to recognize that and accept a subordinate role is very much an open question.

      If he can not, that team could get really dysfunctional in a hurry. Especially with Mike Brown as head coach – a man who’s never known for his willingness to challenge superstar egos.

    20. Gideon Zaga

      Kupchak just outdid Grunwald in two Moves. Got the Knight and the King in two Moves. I need to play chess with that guy.

    21. Gideon Zaga

      Oh and they both play again in 2015 when both teams major contracts come off the books. We’ll see how Mitch jets Melo to LA hahahaha. The Knicks are such a joke.

    22. Gideon Zaga

      They should hire Dantoni lol

      Count de Pennies:
      Well, the success of this deal from the Lakers’ perspective will largely hinge on Kobe’s ego.

      He’s always wanted to be the Alpha Dog. Even as a young punk teamed up with an in-his-prime-and-still-dominant Shaq, he visibly chafed at playing the role of second banana.

      Now, he’s a 35-year old jump shooter who no longer has the quicks to break defenders down and regularly take it to the rack. Realistically, he’s probably the 3rd best offensive option on that team. Whether he now has the self-awareness to recognize that and accept a subordinate role is very much an open question.

      If he can not, that team could get really dysfunctional in a hurry. Especially with Mike Brown as head coach – a man who’s never known for his willingness to challenge superstar egos.

    23. ephus

      Count de Pennies: Now, he’s a 35-year old jump shooter who no longer has the quicks to break defenders down and regularly take it to the rack.

      Kobe believes, with great justification, that he is still a great post player. With Kobe, Pau and Howard, the Lakers have three strong post players. Of course, when Nash is on the court, the Lakers will favor PnR over post-up play. But during the 15-18 minutes per game when Nash is on the bench, the Lakers will have some strong play in the hole.

      Kobe has proven to me that he has the Basketball IQ to adjust his game as necessary. He has not been trying to get to the hole on isolations in about five years. If the Lakers stay healthy, I favor them to win the West.

    24. Gideon Zaga

      So ur saying the Knicks just lost the championship until 2015. Even if we beat Miami how the hell are we going to beat LA. An LA v NY finals tho? A boy can dream!

      ephus: Kobe believes, with great justification, that he is still a great post player.With Kobe, Pau and Howard, the Lakers have three strong post players.Of course, when Nash is on the court, the Lakers will favor PnR over post-up play.But during the 15-18 minutes per game when Nash is on the bench, the Lakers will have some strong play in the hole.

      Kobe has proven to me that he has the Basketball IQ to adjust his game as necessary.He has not been trying to get to the hole on isolations in about five years.If the Lakers stay healthy, I favor them to win the West.

    25. johnlocke

      Haha, yes. I see your Chris Paul, and raise you Steve Nash and Dwight Howard! How’s them apples?

      Maybe this opens a slight sliver of possibility that Chris forces trade to Knicks? Not sure how/what assets we could use to get him. Maybe some combo of Felton, Shump and Chandler + ‘Garbah-ge’ ?

      Gideon Zaga:
      In other news the Clippers are back to being Little Brother!

    26. Gideon Zaga

      That Lock out thing was so funny. Where is Gilbert now. Forget Cleveland, 27 teams just lost the NBA title for 2 years. See why we shouldn’t kept Lin and flipped him together with filler for Paul. I still don’t want to lose Chandler. Grunwald could have flipped Lin for Nash??

    27. Gideon Zaga

      Paul can force his way here but he has to do it via free agency sign and trade. I don’t want to lose Chandler.

      johnlocke:
      Haha, yes. I see your Chris Paul, and raise you Steve Nash and Dwight Howard! How’s them apples?

      Maybe this opens a slight sliver of possibility that Chris forces trade to Knicks? Not sure how/what assets we could use to get him. Maybe some combo of Felton, Shump and Chandler + ‘Garbah-ge’ ?

    28. ephus

      Actually, Shumpert + Chandler (with or without Felton) for CP3 works under the salary cap without need for filler. If the Clippers were going to do that, they would have to trade DeAndre Jordan.

      The Clippers are always capable of shooting themselves in the foot, so I hold out a glimmer of hope for CP3 in NY.

    29. ephus

      Gideon Zaga: Paul can force his way here but he has to do it via free agency sign and trade. I don’t want to lose Chandler.

      Nope. The Knicks will be over the Apron, so starting this offseason, they cannot obtain a player through a sign and trade.

      There are CP3 trades that could work under the salary cap without Chandler, but they revolve around Novak/Camby/Felton/Shumpert. I doubt even the Clippers would take that package.

    30. Gideon Zaga

      Lakers starting 5 features: 3 MVP awards, 4 DPOYs, a combined 33 All-star Game & 18 1st Team All-NBA appearances, 4 ASG MVPs, 2 Finals MVPs.

      The Knicks have 1 DPOY, a couple of ASG and Jim Dolan.

    31. Gideon Zaga

      But they will have no choice. We have to play some hardball sometime. We can’t be suckered in like the Melo trade. Cleveland Lost Lebron and are still dead. Denver lost Melo and now are almost on par with us. They have Iggy, Gallo and Chandler in just over 2 years of losing Melo. Not even mentioning Farief and Lawson plus McGee. Oh Lord!!

      ephus: Nope.The Knicks will be over the Apron, so starting this offseason, they cannot obtain a player through a sign and trade.

      There are CP3 trades that could work under the salary cap without Chandler, but they revolve around Novak/Camby/Felton/Shumpert.I doubt even the Clippers would take that package.

    32. ephus

      Gideon Zaga: But they will have no choice. We have to play some hardball sometime. We can’t be suckered in like the Melo trade. Cleveland Lost Lebron and are still dead. Denver lost Melo and now are almost on par with us. They have Iggy, Gallo and Chandler in just over 2 years of losing Melo. Not even mentioning Farief and Lawson plus McGee. Oh Lord!!

      Actually, they probably will have lots of choices. Dallas and Atlanta both will have the ability to put together better packages and have the salary cap space to sign CP3 if he is not traded. The only way this one works is if CAA presents the ultimatum to the Clippers that he is going to leave in the offseason for nothing, so you should trade him to the Knicks.

      At that point, the Clippers would contact the Hawks and the Mavericks to see if they would offer a bigger package. Either team would rather get CP3 as a free agent, but would be at risk that the Clippers would send him to NY to recoup something. CAA’s ultimate powerplay would be to tell both Dallas and Atlanta that if either trades for him, he will leave for the other as a free agent during the summer. But that would require Paul to leave behind a $3 million over the first four years of the contract, plus forego a fifth year at $23 million.

      This is all wild speculation, since we do not even have recent confirmation that he wants to come to MSG. And, it would not be unreasonable for the Clippers to say they would rather let Chris Paul walk for nothing than take a non-Chandler package (Novak is probably fairly paid, but Felton and Camby are almost certainly paid more than they could get from anyone else).

      I hope Grunwald (and not Dolan) is placed in charge of the situation. I think he would out-negotiate Donald Sterling every day of the week.

    33. ruruland

      Gideon Zaga:
      But they will have no choice. We have to play some hardball sometime. We can’t be suckered in like the Melo trade. Cleveland Lost Lebron and are still dead. Denver lost Melo and now are almost on par with us. They have Iggy, Gallo and Chandler in just over 2 years of losing Melo. Not even mentioning Farief and Lawson plus McGee. Oh Lord!!

      Chandler is an average NBA player. Had they simply lost Billups and Melo in FA they would have been able to sign two players of Iggy’s caliber, but certainly the picks helped.

    34. JK47

      Great, so the Knicks trade Chandler for Paul, the defense completely collapses and the team is still mediocre. This is what we’re hoping and dreaming for. Awesome.

    35. ephus

      Gideon Zaga: Grunwald could have flipped Lin for Nash??

      There was no way for this to happen. The Knicks could not sign Lin to anything more than a full MLE (4 years/$24 million) unless they were matching an offer sheet. If they were signing him to as sign and trade, the raises would have been limited to 4.5% per year, so the overall contract could not have been more than $23 million. Once they were matching an offer sheet, they could not use Lin in a sign-and-trade. And once Houston made its first offer to Lin of 4 years/$38.6 million (last year team option), Lin was never going to settle for 4 years/$23 million to get shipped to Phoenix.

      Once again, the Knicks choices were to match on Lin and keep him at least until Jan. 15 (with Lin having the right to block any trade this season) or let him go. I (and just about everyone who posts here) would have matched, but it would not have led to Nash.

    36. Gideon Zaga

      @Ephus

      Can you please explain how the Lakers are making the salaries work with that starting 5? If they can do it. I’m sure we can too.

    37. Juany8

      Lin, Shump, and Novak would have been a much better package for CP3 than what the Magic got for Dwight. Not matching Lin has to be the close to the worst basketball move of the off season, right on par with Chicago not matching on Asik and letting their whole bench go. Sure, there are understandable financial reasons for those moves, but it totally sucks as a fan of the teams, or as an NBA fan that doesn’t like the thought of Lebron winning the next 5 championships (or at least making it to 5 finals because the east is a joke)

    38. JK47

      Gideon Zaga:
      @Ephu

      Can you please explain how the Lakers are making the salaries work with that starting 5? If they can do it. I’m sure we can too.

      The Lakers are willing to spend luxury tax if it means bringing in quality players. The Knicks are content to keep that money in James Dolan’s wallet and send Ray Felton out there.

    39. ephus

      Gideon Zaga: @EphusCan you please explain how the Lakers are making the salaries work with that starting 5? If they can do it. I’m sure we can too.

      Kobe, MWP and Pau have contracts from before the current CBA. Nash’s salary fits into the trade exception created when the Lakers sent Lamar Odom to Dallas. Howard’s salary fits into the trade exception created when Bynum was shipped out (more or less). Duhon fits into the C. Eyenga trade exception and Earl Clark fits into a pre-existing trade exception.

      The Knicks do not have any trade exceptions and they are precluded from trading their first round pick for the next three years. Their most lucrative assets that the Knicks have right now are:

      1. Carmelo Anthony (but Dolan won’t send him out for just about anything);
      2. Tyson Chandler (he has outplayed his salary for the last two years);
      3. Iman Shumpert (still has three years to go on his rookie scale);
      4. 2016 First round pick (which is subject Denver’s right to flip/flop)
      5. 2017 & 2018 First Round Picks (can’t trade a first round pick for two years in a row).
      6. J.R. Smith (really cheap contract).

    40. ephus

      Juany8: Lin, Shump, and Novak would have been a much better package for CP3 than what the Magic got for Dwight. Not matching Lin has to be the close to the worst basketball move of the off season, right on par with Chicago not matching on Asik and letting their whole bench go. Sure, there are understandable financial reasons for those moves, but it totally sucks as a fan of the teams, or as an NBA fan that doesn’t like the thought of Lebron winning the next 5 championships (or at least making it to 5 finals because the east is a joke)

      I agree that Lin, Shump and Novak would have been a more compelling package to try to get CP3, but Lin’s consent still would have been required. Unlike baseball, a NBA team cannot pay to obtain that consent. So matching on Lin would not necessarily have created an asset that could be used to try to get Chris Paul this season.

    41. Juany8

      ephus: Kobe, MWP and Pau have contracts from before the current CBA.Nash’s salary fits into the trade exception created when the Lakers sent Lamar Odom to Dallas.Howard’s salary fits into the trade exception created when Bynum was shipped out (more or less).Duhon fits into the C. Eyenga trade exception and Earl Clark fits into a pre-existing trade exception.

      The Knicks do not have any trade exceptions and they are precluded from trading their first round pick for the next three years.Their most lucrative assets that the Knicks have right now are:

      1.Carmelo Anthony (but Dolan won’t send him out for just about anything);
      2.Tyson Chandler (he has outplayed his salary for the last two years);
      3.Iman Shumpert (still has three years to go on his rookie scale);
      4.2016 First round pick (which is subject Denver’s right to flip/flop)
      5.2017 & 2018 First Round Picks (can’t trade a first round pick for two years in a row).
      6.J.R. Smith (really cheap contract).

      A big part of it is that the Lakers have been over the luxury tax forever. Under the previous CBA, there was virtually no penalty to being above the tax, in fact teams like the Lakers and Mavericks have used their enormous salaries in the past to just take on contracts before that other teams couldn’t or wouldn’t pay anymore. It was very easy to change the roster around if you had a bunch of players getting payed significant money and were way over the tax. The Knicks only got past the regular salary cap last season, meaning it’s very hard for them to sign anyone anymore. Since teams trading above the cap are also limited, the Knicks don’t have anywhere near the flexibility teams like the Lakers and Mavericks have enjoyed this past decade. The Lakers are still using what’s left of the assets from the last championship (Odom and Bynum) to get their new core (Nash and Bynum)

    42. Juany8

      ephus: I agree that Lin, Shump and Novak would have been a more compelling package to try to get CP3, but Lin’s consent still would have been required.Unlike baseball, a NBA team cannot pay to obtain that consent.So matching on Lin would not necessarily have created an asset that could be used to try to get Chris Paul this season.

      If we’re talking about the regular season, sure, but the Knicks could have picked up Paul afterwards. Up until free agency starts, the Clippers could have made that trade with the Knicks, especially since not being able to trade picks would be less of an issue. Maybe the Rockets would have found a way to blow away that offer (on another note, imagine how scary it would be if Chris Paul was available and the Lakers still had Pau and whoever they acquired with Odom’s trade exception to dangle out there.) But then maybe the rockets trade Chris Paul before free agency if he tells the team in no uncertain terms that he’s leaving. No matter what, losing Lin was such a terrible blow for this franchise, even if Felton, Kidd, and Camby all turn back the clock 2 years. The Knicks just gave up an enticing trade chip with a solid amount of potential to improve. They also ensured that Melo is going to need the ball in his hands a lot if Felton can’t handle Miami or Boston’s intense defense

    43. Gideon Zaga

      Wait I just heard that the Lakers will pay $123 million in salary and tax this year. Oh my goodness. Can I get that Lin trade back now.

    44. ephus

      Actually, the Knicks could not have traded Lin without his consent for a full year from the time they matched his offer sheet, so they could not have moved him without his consent during the stub period between the end of the playoffs and July 1 (when free agency opens). More importantly, the Clippers cannot trade Chris Paul after the trade deadline since he is about to become a free agent.

      If the Knicks are going to get Chris Paul, they will have to trade for him before the trade deadline.

    45. ephus

      Gideon Zaga: Wait I just heard that the Lakers will pay $123 million in salary and tax this year. Oh my goodness.

      Just wait until next year, when the tax rate goes from 100% to a graduated scale from 150% and up to 325% at the $20 million threshold. If the Lakers do not amnesty MWP, they are looking at a total payroll of around $140 million.

    46. dogrufus

      ephus: Just wait until next year, when the tax rate goes from 100% to a graduated scale from 150% and up to 325% at the $20 million threshold.If the Lakers do not amnesty MWP, they are looking at a total payroll of around $140 million.

      Who cares? Why is it that so few people here understand that it’s a far, far better value to pay 140 million for a team that is a favorite to be a championship dynasty than it is to pay 70 million for a team that reliably loses in the first or second round and has no hope of doing anything anyone will remember in 5 years?

    47. thenamestsam

      ephus: Just wait until next year, when the tax rate goes from 100% to a graduated scale from 150% and up to 325% at the $20 million threshold.If the Lakers do not amnesty MWP, they are looking at a total payroll of around $140 million.

      I mean we say that like it’s something crazy, and it’s obviously a ton compared to what other teams are spending, but $140 dollars is pretty middling for a baseball payroll for example. Are the Lakers revenues really that much lower than the Detroit Tigers (payroll $132 million this year)? I have no idea, but it seems unlikely to me.

    48. dogrufus

      JC Knickfan: Gerald Hatten “Jerry” Buss

      He cares so much that he’s happily willing to shell out that cash to win rings and rake in big returns on his next tv deal, while we peasants all wring our hands over what a big sum Lord Buss is doling out.

    49. ephus

      On second look, the Lakers total bill next year (with MWP) would be around $160 million.

      Dogrufus is absolutely correct. The Lakers are spending on this roster to build franchise equity value, which comes from being the dominant team in LA. They already have signed a long-term cable contract with Time Warner (20 years/$3 billion, reportedly), but more championships means more loyalty from the fan base and, ultimately, more money. It is a small price to pay to beat down the threat of the LA Clippers stealing the marketplace.

    50. JC Knickfan

      Quick search found this on Lakers revenue.
      “This seasons 08-09′ valuation for the Lakers in Forbes says that they made $191 million in revenue, have $82 million in gate receipts, $77 million in player expenses, and $47.9 million in Operating Inc. ”

      Take awesome 5% growth rate that put revenue around 221 Million.

      I do think and predict Metta will get Amestied next season.

      I don’t give crap about payroll either. I’m just amazed how Mitch Kupchak continue make these deals.

    51. JK47

      The Lakers are a class organization, and they are committed to winning and maintaining the standard of excellence their fans are accustomed to. The seamless manner in which they have turned over their roster from the Shaq era to the Gasol/Bynum era and now to the Dwight Howard era is truly impressive.

      The difference between the people who run the Lakers and the people who run the Knicks couldn’t be any more stark.

    52. ephus

      JC Knickfan,

      Those numbers are dated, because the Lakers new media deal brought their TV revenue alone up to $150 million/year (if you believe Forbes). MWP will get amnesited (unless Pau or Kobe get hurt and amnestied) because the marginal rate on his $7.8 million next season will be around 350% (or $27 million).

      But the $4 million difference each year between Bynum and Howard is a wise investment (IMO), even if they pay another $14 million per year in tax on that difference.

    53. ephus

      The Nuggets sent the Magic the 2014 First Round Pick (which is the better of Denver or NY’s pick), not the 2013 First Round Pick. So the Magic get their picks in 2014, 2015 (Sixers) and 2017 (Lakers). I do not know if those picks will be valuable, but I am virtually certain that Jaques Vaughn will not be coaching the team in 2017.

    54. knicknyk

      ephus:
      Actually, the Knicks could not have traded Lin without his consent for a full year from the time they matched his offer sheet, so they could not have moved him without his consent during the stub period between the end of the playoffs and July 1 (when free agency opens).More importantly, the Clippers cannot trade Chris Paul after the trade deadline since he is about to become a free agent.

      If the Knicks are going to get Chris Paul, they will have to trade for him before the trade deadline.

      Aside from potentially trading him not handling Lin’s free agency better looks even more absurd now. The Knicks have mortgaged there future to win now. Our chances of winning now look slimmer and slimmer (teams like Boston, Miami and the Lakers are out there) not to mention OKC Spurs. If things end up not going well with Amare and we have to trade him (as seen from Joe Johson there is no such thing as an untradable contract) that decreases the luxury tax implications and especially if Lin improves enough (potential to get MIP?). The pressure is firmly on the Knicks this year to be honest and in the regular season I think we will do well but in the playoffs is where I for see a lot of problems.

    55. Z-man

      Kudos to the Lakers for pulling this off. However, I’m not convinced that this is move makes them a championship team unless everything goes right. Nash needs to stay healthy and productive just for O, and no matter what, his D is a problem. Gasol may be slipping into decline. MWP is always living on the edge of sanity. Not crazy about their bench. And last but not least, I’m not so sure that Howard is more than marginally better than Bynum right now, and that is assuming that Howard’s back is 100%. Bynum’s stats at age 24 compare favorably to Howard’s at the same age, and Bynum can make FTs. And there is a realistic chance that Bynum improves to the point where they become more or less equal. Whatever, I’m glad the drama is over and that Brooklyn didn’t get him.

    56. JK47

      @60

      Howard is a 3-time DPOY and a committed defender. Bynum has the athleticism to play good defense but lacks the drive. He is just not an elite defensive big man. The Lakers were a middling defensive team last year. Watch the effect that Howard has on the club. They will move up quite a few notches in defensive rating, I guarantee it.

    57. ephus

      JK47:
      @60

      Howard is a 3-time DPOY and a committed defender. Bynum has the athleticism to play good defense but lacks the drive.He is just not an elite defensive big man. The Lakers were a middling defensive team last year. Watch the effect that Howard has on the club. They will move up quite a few notches in defensive rating, I guarantee it.

      +1.

      Howard’s ability to defend the pick and roll and to protect the rim from slashers will be particularly useful for the Lakers, because they will help to cover up for Nash’s defensive deficiencies. I do not have the numbers, but watching Bynum defend in space on the perimeter was ugly.

    58. TheRant

      Lordy, I hope someone is watching USA vs. Argentina. Melo has started raining three pointers like it’s nobody’s business. This is from about 8:30-6:30 left in the fourth. Insane.

    59. Juany8

      You know what, I’m watching this USA-Argentina game and Carmelo has looked like the second best player the second half, if not the best. I still don’t get how people can watch amazing coaches treat Carmelo as a star and then say he doesn’t belong in the top 50. Even when he wasn’t making his shots, he’s been a great rebounder, a good passer, and an excellent off the ball scorer. He’s also had some of the tougher defensive assignments of team USA, he’s been asked to play freaking centers quite often.

    60. Juany8

      ephus: +1.

      Howard’s ability to defend the pick and roll and to protect the rim from slashers will be particularly useful for the Lakers, because they will help to cover up for Nash’s defensive deficiencies.I do not have the numbers, but watching Bynum defend in space on the perimeter was ugly.

      I honestly think that even this year, Bynum will be a better offensive player than Dwight Howard. Fortunately for the Lakers, they needed defense much more than offense, and on defense it’s not remotely close. Bynum is a fine post defender, but he can’t defend the pick and roll even close to what Dwight can. Bynum’s also not as committed on that end, and can be inconsistent as a rebounder, while Dwight just lead the league 3 of the past 4 years.

    61. Z-man

      I can’t really argue with what Juany and JK47 are saying. Dwight is a monster, no doubt, but he has flaws. Bynum has deeper flaws, but his strengths are very, very impressive as well. I’m not suggesting that it was a lateral move, but essentially they went from having the 2nd best center in the league to the best one. It remains to be seen whether this is a marginal improvement or a huge game-changer.

    62. knicknyk

      Z-man:
      I can’t really argue with what Juany and JK47 are saying. Dwight is a monster, no doubt, but he has flaws. Bynum has deeper flaws, but his strengths are very, very impressive as well. I’m not suggesting that it was a lateral move, but essentially they went from having the 2nd best center in the league to the best one. It remains to be seen whether this is a marginal improvement or a huge game-changer.

      It is more about which player is the better fit as opposed to going from the second best centre to the best centre. It looks like Howard will end up being the best fit.

    63. Z-man

      Juany8: You know what, I’m watching this USA-Argentina game and Carmelo has looked like the second best player the second half, if not the best. I still don’t get how people can watch amazing coaches treat Carmelo as a star and then say he doesn’t belong in the top 50. Even when he wasn’t making his shots, he’s been a great rebounder, a good passer, and an excellent off the ball scorer. He’s also had some of the tougher defensive assignments of team USA, he’s been asked to play freaking centers quite often.

      I would have to agree that Melo has not yet put up upper-echelon advanced stat numbers. There is no question in my mind that he is capable of it. He just has sooooo much talent, and is the best combo of size, strength and skill not named LeBron. It’s all about b-ball IQ and dedication to team ball, and this year he will be in the best situation he has ever been in. He is older and wiser, there are no contractual issues, coaching controversies, or other stuff to distract him or to serve as an excuse for inefficient play.

      I just take issue with those who think that he is what he is and can’t get better. I also think that this team, loaded with accomplished veterans as it is, will offer support for his positive development. Same goes for Amare. I think that Kidd, Camby, Thomas, Chandler and Prigioni are all super-smart players that will rein Melo in, and even Felton won’t be afraid to assert himself should Melo plays selfishly. More likely, though, I think Melo just picks up where he left off with team USA, plays his ass off and puts up his best statistical season this year.

    64. BigBlueAL

      I give Melo alot of credit for today’s game because when he entered the game in the 1st quarter Argentina went on a huge run and alot of it had to do with Melo’s awful play. Scola and Nocioni scored on him on like 3 possessions in a row and he missed all of his shots and they were all rushed/forced 3pters. He got pulled from the game real quick too.

      But he re-entered in the 2nd quarter and was a different player. Rebounding, passing and defending great (had a nice drive for a dunk too). Then of course in the 4th quarter he made 4 treys in a roughly 2 minute span with the last one being a heat check from barely past half-court lol. Finished with 18 pts on 7 for 14 (4 for 8 from 3pt) 6 rebs and 3 asts.

      When he is this engaged on both ends of the court he really is fun to watch.

    65. Z-man

      I also think that Woodson is not George Karl or Mike D’Antoni. He may not be a brilliant x’s and o’s guy, but all indications are that he will definitely not hesitate to hold players accountable, including the stars.

      I continue to be impressed by Prigioni, he just seems to get to good spots for pasing angles.

    66. BigBlueAL

      Isola tweeted:

      New Knicks point guard Pablo Prigioni on Carmelo detonating in the fourth quarter: “I hope he shoots like this during the whole season.”

    67. Z-man

      In Karl’s case, he’s OK, but I just think that Woody is the better fit for this roster, having to deal with Melo and JR’s flakiness.

    68. knicknyk

      Z-man:
      In Karl’s case, he’s OK, but I just think that Woody is the better fit for this roster, having to deal with Melo and JR’s flakiness.

      I think Woodson definitely has the respect of the entire roster and they were willing to play hard for him. I still do have my reservations as to how he will make adjustments in the post-season. I think that is where it will all come down to for the Knicks championship success. We will definitely be a top defensive team and if we can improve our offense and get a top 3 seeding I imagine Woodson being in discussion for COY. Unlike MDA, Woodson has the respect of the entire squad but I can see him being out coached by Spo or Doc. Fortunately for us we have Kidd who is a coach on the floor, but at this stage in his career I am not sure if that will be enough.

    69. thenamestsam

      BigBlueAL:
      I give Melo alot of credit for today’s game because when he entered the game in the 1st quarter Argentina went on a huge run and alot of it had to do with Melo’s awful play.Scola and Nocioni scored on him on like 3 possessions in a row and he missed all of his shots and they were all rushed/forced 3pters.He got pulled from the game real quick too.

      But he re-entered in the 2nd quarter and was a different player.Rebounding, passing and defending great (had a nice drive for a dunk too).Then of course in the 4th quarter he made 4 treys in a roughly 2 minute span with the last one being a heat check from barely past half-court lol.Finished with 18 pts on 7 for 14 (4 for 8 from 3pt) 6 rebs and 3 asts.

      When he is this engaged on both ends of the court he really is fun to watch.

      +1. That’s what I noticed most as well. He was awful in his first run on the floor, but he bounced back really well.

      I’m interested to know what the more hardcore WP/48 disciples think of Melo’s Olympic play. Watching how much easier his scoring opportunities are, and consequently how much better his efficiency is when he plays as a 4th option would seem to lend strength to the idea that your role matters a lot in basketball.

      THCJ, for example, often mocks the idea that a lot of Harden’s efficiency for OKC can be explained by being the third option, which means going against weaker defenders and getting more open looks. But when Melo is a 3rd option, all the sudden his efficiency goes through the roof and he’s a devastating offensive weapon. I’m legitimately curious what THCJ or others think of that.

    70. ruruland

      What people perhaps are forgetting is that Melo’s played like this before for long stretches basically every season.

      What he did last April: 29.2 ppg, 7rpg, 3.5apg/2.7topg, 49.7/43% from 3 (.586 TS)

      Last 37 games of 2011: 27.8ppg, 48%/43% from 3, (.593 TS)

      First 35 games of 2010: 30.4 ppg, 48%/36% (.577 TS)

      Last 62 games of 2008: 25.3ppg, 8rpg, 50.3%/37% (.577 TS)

      First 22 games of 2007 prior to Iverson trade: 31.6ppg, 4.1 apg 50.6% (prior to 3pt shot developing) (.570 TS)

      Last 67 games of 2006: 27.7 ppg, 49% (.573 TS)

    71. ruruland

      thenamestsam: +1. That’s what I noticed most as well. He was awful in his first run on the floor, but he bounced back really well.

      I’m interested to know what the more hardcore WP/48 disciples think of Melo’s Olympic play. Watching how much easier his scoring opportunities are, and consequently how much better his efficiency is when he plays as a 4th option would seem to lend strength to the idea that your role matters a lot in basketball.

      THCJ, for example, often mocks the idea that a lot of Harden’s efficiency for OKC can be explained by being the third option, which means going against weaker defenders and getting more open looks. But when Melo is a 3rd option, all the sudden his efficiency goes through the roof and he’s a devastating offensive weapon. I’m legitimately curious what THCJ or others think of that.

      We ask them about this all the time. Everyone can create shots equally, some chose to create poorer ones than others. That is all.

      A team of 3 Novaks and 2 Chandlers is the best evar.

    72. The Honorable Cock Jowles

      Are we really using Olympic basketball as an indicator of efficiency? Is this seriously an argument being made right now?

    73. The Honorable Cock Jowles

      ruruland:
      What people perhaps are forgetting is that Melo’s played like this before for long stretches basically every season.

      What he did last April: 29.2 ppg, 7rpg, 3.5apg/2.7topg, 49.7/43% from 3 (.586 TS)

      Last 37 games of 2011: 27.8ppg, 48%/43% from 3, (.593 TS)

      First 35 games of 2010: 30.4 ppg, 48%/36% (.577 TS)

      Last 62 games of 2008: 25.3ppg, 8rpg,50.3%/37% (.577 TS)

      First 22 games of 2007 prior to Iverson trade: 31.6ppg, 4.1 apg 50.6% (prior to 3pt shot developing) (.570 TS)

      Last 67 games of 2006: 27.7 ppg, 49% (.573 TS)

      Arbitrary endpoints. Shh.

    74. JK47

      ruruland:
      What people perhaps are forgetting is that Melo’s played like this before for long stretches basically every season.

      What he did last April: 29.2 ppg, 7rpg, 3.5apg/2.7topg, 49.7/43% from 3 (.586 TS)

      Last 37 games of 2011: 27.8ppg, 48%/43% from 3, (.593 TS)

      First 35 games of 2010: 30.4 ppg, 48%/36% (.577 TS)

      Last 62 games of 2008: 25.3ppg, 8rpg,50.3%/37% (.577 TS)

      First 22 games of 2007 prior to Iverson trade: 31.6ppg, 4.1 apg 50.6% (prior to 3pt shot developing) (.570 TS)

      Last 67 games of 2006: 27.7 ppg, 49% (.573 TS)

      This is the most irritating thing you do. Pick a completely arbitrary series of games in which your favorite player played well, cite the statistics from those games, then pretend that is the player’s true level of ability. You could do the same thing for just about any player in the league. I can make John Wall or Jamal Crawford look like efficient players if I cherry pick the best stretches of their seasons.

    75. The Honorable Cock Jowles

      Z-man:

      I just take issue with those who think that he is what he is and can’t get better. I also think that this team, loaded with accomplished veterans as it is, will offer support for his positive development. Same goes for Amare.I think that Kidd, Camby, Thomas, Chandler and Prigioni are all super-smart players that will rein Melo in, and even Felton won’t be afraid to assert himself should Melo plays selfishly. More likely, though, I think Melo just picks up where he left off with team USA, plays his ass off and puts up his best statistical season this year.

      I’ve never said he couldn’t do it. I’ve said that he probably won’t do it. Historically, few players become hyper-efficient at his age. It’s all about risk. You know, Faried could end up becoming the best PF of all-time. He’s super-athletic, is a ridiculous rebounder, and he could “learn” NBA defensive skills and improve on his .220+ WS/48. Should we trade for him based on the possibility that he could make a serious leap into an elite player?

    76. ruruland

      :
      I’m interested to know what the more hardcore WP/48 disciples think of Melo’s Olympic play.

      Here’s what I’ve argued for a long time after following this closely for close to a decade.

      Melo’s been lights out efficient on extremely high usage for long chunks of the season since his game turned the corner in 2005.

      For a 96 game stretch, Melo scored about 30 points per 36 on 50-55% from two point range, with Andre Miller as the point guard.

      During that stretch, 55-65% of Melo’s baskets were assisted.

      All of that occurred prior to Melo developing a 3pt shot. But in 2006 and 2007 he was one of the NBA’s leaders in dunks and did virtually all of his damage inside 18 feet.

      When Iverson come aboard, Melo’s game had to change. More isolations and post-ups, more offensive rebounds and he began to improve his 3pt shot.

      The .593 TS he put up the final 62 games of 2009 he was a second option much of the time, getting kick-outs from Iverson and Carter and spending a lot of time under the basket on Iverson drives.

      His game once again had to change in Billups era. With less penetration, fewer offensive rebound opportunities, Melo’s job was to create the offense the vast majority of the time. That’s when his assisted basket percentage started to dip into the mid and upper 40s.

      He became a great spot-up player in both Denver and New York two years ago.
      ————————————————————
      I think a great deal of the inconsistency stems from having to create for himself at such a high frequency, which eventually leads to his body breaking down, as it has basically every year since playing without Miller.

      It’s no coincidence that his longest stretches of extremely efficient play have been when he’s been able to have a balance of off and on ball plays, instead of the every-possession-grappling he’s endured…

    77. ruruland

      JK47: This is the most irritating thing you do. Pick a completely arbitrary series of games in which your favorite player played well, cite the statistics from those games, then pretend that is the player’s true level of ability. You could do the same thing for just about any player in the league. I can make John Wall or Jamal Crawford look like efficient players if I cherry pick the best stretches of their seasons.

      Well, it’s interesting that Melo’s season typically breaks down into a very efficient portion and an inefficient portion.

      I can expound on my argument above, but basically you can read it there.

      Melo can play large chunks of the season very efficiently as a self-shot creator, but he cannot do it over a whole season.

      However, when paired with a point guard that allows him to play more off the ball, he’s much more consistent.

      He’s only had two stretches with a point guard that allowed him to play off the ball.

      I make the argument that his game turned a corner in 2005 after a series of prior experiences.

      You may make the claim that I chose an arbitrary beginning point, but I would argue that the light came for Melo in November of 2005 in a game against San Antonio.

      But the 96 games afterward with Miller as the pg were extremely efficient without a 3pt shot. The Iverson/Miller trade IS not an arbitrary endpoint.

      I make the argument that there was a significant adjustment to Allen Iverson’s game. You can make the argument that I chose an arbitrary beginning in 2007, but he did finish off his time with Iverson by shooting .593 TS over their final 62 games together. It really took an off-season and a month for Melo to figure out how to get good shots with AI.

      And there was a similar transition with Chauncey Billups, a situation that demanded Melo to create for himself more than ever before.

    78. ruruland

      JK47: This is the most irritating thing you do. Pick a completely arbitrary series of games in which your favorite player played well, cite the statistics from those games, then pretend that is the player’s true level of ability. You could do the same thing for just about any player in the league. I can make John Wall or Jamal Crawford look like efficient players if I cherry pick the best stretches of their seasons.

      If Melo is asked to create 65-75% of his own shots, he certainly won’t put up very efficient numbers overall (even if he’s one of the best iso and post-up players in the game)

      But if Melo’s shot distribution changes, he can put up those numbers and, IMO, better, as his 3pt shot has become pretty good since.

      Past 2008, all of those arbitrary statistical samples where of Melo creating offense for himself. In each instance, his body either broke down before or thereafter.

    79. JK47

      Who’s supposed to get him all these great looks? Fatty Felton? 50-year old Jason Kidd? My guess is that he plays the same iso-ball style he’s always played, with the same results. We’ll see, I guess.

    80. knicknyk

      JK47:
      Who’s supposed to get him all these great looks? Fatty Felton? 50-year old Jason Kidd? My guess is that he plays the same iso-ball style he’s always played, with the same results. We’ll see, I guess.

      Yes. Kidd Felton and Prig are supposed to get Melo these looks. Essentially what the Knicks have done is gone all in, for our big 3. They have surrounded Melo and Amare and Tyson with more help defensively. They have provided stability at the guard position with quality players. Little upside (aside from Shump) but they are veterans who have reached there peak. Now it is up to our big 3 to carry us the rest of the way. We are definitely a veteran team and we have gotten rid of all the extra distractions. It will be interesting to see how everything develops. It is all on Melo & Amare.

    81. The Honorable Cock Jowles

      There will always be an excuse for Melo’s unexceptional efficiency. What’s the point in arguing with him?

    82. ruruland

      JK47:
      Who’s supposed to get him all these great looks? Fatty Felton? 50-year old Jason Kidd? My guess is that he plays the same iso-ball style he’s always played, with the same results. We’ll see, I guess.

      There’s a reason the Mavs couldn’t keep Jason Kidd off the floor and it wasn’t his lateral quickness or spot-up shooting.

      The one year Felton played on up-tempo teams he put up 8.2 assists per 36, certainly better than Chauncey Billups or Allen Iverson.

      Felton can drive and kick, find Melo in transition/semi-transition or on the weakside pick and roll.

    83. knicknyk

      ruruland: There’s a reason the Mavs couldn’t keep Jason Kidd off the floor and it wasn’t his lateral quickness or spot-up shooting.

      The one year Felton played on up-tempo teams he put up 8.2 assists per 36, certainly better than Chauncey Billups or Allen Iverson.

      Felton can drive and kick, find Melo in transition/semi-transition or on the weakside pick and roll.

      I doubt we will be playing in an uptempo system this year.

    84. JK47

      There’s a reason the Mavericks couldn’t keep Jason Kidd off the floor, and it’s because their next best point guard was Delonte West. Maybe I’d be more impressed with Jason Kidd’s ubiquitous presence in Dallas’ lineup last year if the Mavs finished better than 22nd in the NBA in offensive rating.

    85. ruruland

      JK47:
      There’s a reason the Mavericks couldn’t keep Jason Kidd off the floor, and it’s because their next best point guard was Delonte West. Maybe I’d be more impressed with Jason Kidd’s ubiquitous presence in Dallas’ lineup last year if the Mavs finished better than 22nd in the NBA in offensive rating.

      Watch the video from last year and it’s evident still what he can do.

      I think he can have a better year next season. That whole team was out of shape to start, and condensed schedule should hurt the older teams the most.

      If he gets back to what he did 2-3 years ago he might still be one of the top 10 point guards in the NBA.

    86. Z-man

      The Honorable Cock Jowles: I’ve never said he couldn’t do it. I’ve said that he probably won’t do it. Historically, few players become hyper-efficient at his age. It’s all about risk. You know, Faried could end up becoming the best PF of all-time. He’s super-athletic, is a ridiculous rebounder, and he could “learn” NBA defensive skills and improve on his .220+ WS/48. Should we trade for him based on the possibility that he could make a serious leap into an elite player?

      It is not necessary for Melo to be “hyper-efficient,” just plain efficient, or efficient when it is needed for his team to win. Kobe was the highest usage player on several championship teams w/o being hyper-efficient. It’s not so much about whether Melo can play better, but whether he can play smarter.

      Melo can do many things that Faried will never, ever be able to do, little things, like make a shot from beyond 5 feet or attack the rim with either hand when more than 1 dribble is required. Comparing them in terms of their roles is silly. Is Faried worth more, dollar for dollar? Whatever. Let’s see what happens when Landry Fields II goes around the league a couple of times. PS we have Tyson Chandler doing everything that Faried does, but even more efficiently and with DPOY skills, most of which have almost no impact on WP48. (Of course, altering shots or forcing teams to take less efficient shots have no impact on who ultimatley wins a game, so while Faried is one of the worst interior defenders in the league and Chandler is one of the best, they grade out about evenly in WP48.)

      Re risk, what risk? Melo is a certainty to be here,so debating risk at this point is futile. The only operative question is whether a hand-picked supporting cast with some super-smart, super-efficient, super-experienced players can help Melo go from shooting 10-22 to 10-20 on average.

    87. Z-man

      JK47: Who’s supposed to get him all these great looks? Fatty Felton? 50-year old Jason Kidd? My guess is that he plays the same iso-ball style he’s always played, with the same results. We’ll see, I guess.

      If Felton is indeed fat when training camp opens, or if Kidd plays like a 50yo, I agree that it will be a long season, just like it would have been if Lin was exposed as a 1-hit wonder after we gave him the keys to the car in the most important season for the NYK in more than a decade.

    88. massive

      Well, Raymond Felton has been an above average PG for every playoff team he’s played for (according to WP/48) and Carmelo Anthony hasn’t produced a WS/48 under .157 as a New York Knickerbocker. As long as Felton can get Melo the ball where he can score (and Woodson runs the “pre-Lin injury” offense), we should be fine.

      Besides, this team ended the season on a 18-6 run. I feel good about this season. Not Miami/LAL good about it, but I think we’ll be watching the Knicks play in mid-May 2013.

    89. knicknyk

      I think Felton Prig and Kidd will be capable enough guards to be honest. Veteran guards that Woodson can trust. It all comes down to Melo Amare and Tyson to get the job done.

    90. ruruland

      Did I write this?

      http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/49063/melos-improved-jumper-is-golden-for-usa

      “He’s making over eight 3-pointers per 48 minutes. He’s never made as many as two 3-pointers per 48 minutes in an NBA season. The most 3-pointers per 48 minutes in a season in NBA history is 5.3 by J.R. Smith in 2007-08.”

      Sure, one can argue the competition in the Olympics doesn’t compare to the NBA. But Carmelo is averaging nearly 13 more points per 48 minutes than any other USA player. Every other USA player is around or below their per 48 minutes average from last season.

      He’s shooting 53 percent on jump shots, tops of any Olympian with at least 25 attempts.”

      Similarly, Carmelo has drastically improved on guarded catch-and-shoot jumpers the last couple seasons. His percentage skyrocketed from 29 in 2009-10 to 47 last season, which ranked 5th of the 134 players with at least 50 attempts. Giving extra value to 3-pointers, he had the 3rd-highest effective field-goal percentage of those same 134 players.

      Maybe he’s shooting so well because he’s getting a ton of open shots? Not really. Only 35 percent of his catch-and-shoot jumpers have been unguarded in the Olympics……..”

      Wait for it, wait for it……….
      “Last season, more than a third of his plays were isolation. He’s been the most efficient isolation player in the Olympics. But only 14 percent of his plays have been isolation.

      Instead, more than half of Carmelo’s points have come on transition and spot-up plays. Thirty percent of his points have come from catch-and-jumpers in the Olympics, whereas only 12 percent of his points were scored that way last NBA season.

      If Carmelo can find easier ways to score other than isolation, the Knicks the Knicks could reap the benefits of his best NBA season yet.”

    91. Juany8

      I guess it all really comes down to how well Melo’s teammates can get him the ball in good spots. Derrick Rose had the same problem a few years ago, the Bulls didn’t look anywhere near as impressive in the playoffs (even before Miami) because nobody on that Bulls team could help Rose get an easy shot against a set defense. Since Amar’e and Chandler can’t pass well (Chandler can’t really hold the ball for more than 3 seconds, but even Camby can pass pretty well) It all really comes down to the PG’s JR, and Shumpert to attack well enough for Melo to get some easy cuts or jumpers. Honestly, if I was Woodson I could go look at what the Dallas Mavericks did their Championship year and start running staggered screens with either Melo and Chandler or Amar’e and Chandler (JR or Felton would be the only guys who have the speed and ability to run this) Either way, Melo can’t be starting the offense outside the 3 point line unless our backcourt collapses

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