Knicks Morning News (2022.05.24)

  • Will the Knicks Pair Bennedict Mathurin With RJ Barrett? – The Knicks Wall
    [theknickswall.com] — Tuesday, May 24, 2022 6:28:18 AM

    Will the Knicks Pair Bennedict Mathurin With RJ Barrett?  The Knicks Wall

  • NBA Rumors: Knicks Could Pursue Collin Sexton Sign-And-Trade If His Contract Extension Talks With Cavaliers Fall Through – Fadeaway World
    [fadeawayworld.net] — Monday, May 23, 2022 10:51:06 PM

    NBA Rumors: Knicks Could Pursue Collin Sexton Sign-And-Trade If His Contract Extension Talks With Cavaliers Fall Through  Fadeaway World

  • NBA Draft: Could Shaedon Sharpe Help – Or ‘Burn’ – the New York Knicks? – Sports Illustrated
    [www.si.com] — Monday, May 23, 2022 6:38:12 PM

    NBA Draft: Could Shaedon Sharpe Help – Or ‘Burn’ – the New York Knicks?  Sports Illustrated

  • Pelicans Creating a Bidding War for 8th Pick in 2022 NBA Draft – Sports Illustrated
    [www.si.com] — Monday, May 23, 2022 5:04:20 PM

    Pelicans Creating a Bidding War for 8th Pick in 2022 NBA Draft  Sports Illustrated

  • Harlem native Mo Bamba does his best to recruit Donovan Mitchell to Knicks – Daily Knicks
    [dailyknicks.com] — Monday, May 23, 2022 5:00:00 PM

    Harlem native Mo Bamba does his best to recruit Donovan Mitchell to Knicks  Daily Knicks

  • Trae Young Reflects On His Game 1 Game-Winner Against Knicks | SLAM – SLAM Online
    [www.slamonline.com] — Monday, May 23, 2022 4:24:28 PM

    Trae Young Reflects On His Game 1 Game-Winner Against Knicks | SLAM  SLAM Online

  • Report: Knicks have ‘always coveted’ Collin Sexton and are a team worth ‘watching’ … – Cavaliers Nation
    [cavaliersnation.com] — Monday, May 23, 2022 4:00:34 PM

    Report: Knicks have ‘always coveted’ Collin Sexton and are a team worth ‘watching’ …  Cavaliers Nation

  • Eastern Draft Notes: Pistons, Pacers, Nets, Knicks – hoopsrumors.com
    [www.hoopsrumors.com] — Monday, May 23, 2022 1:59:00 PM

    Eastern Draft Notes: Pistons, Pacers, Nets, Knicks  hoopsrumors.com

  • Johnny Davis Connects With Knicks Coach Tom Thibodeau – Sports Illustrated
    [www.si.com] — Monday, May 23, 2022 12:02:26 PM

    Johnny Davis Connects With Knicks Coach Tom Thibodeau  Sports Illustrated

  • Knicks will workout ‘buzzworthy’ 7’3″ Filipino draft prospect Kai Sotto – Daily Knicks
    [dailyknicks.com] — Monday, May 23, 2022 12:00:00 PM

    Knicks will workout ‘buzzworthy’ 7’3″ Filipino draft prospect Kai Sotto  Daily Knicks

  • Philadelphia 76ers: 3 potential Matisse Thybulle trades – The Sixer Sense
    [thesixersense.com] — Monday, May 23, 2022 11:47:00 AM

    Philadelphia 76ers: 3 potential Matisse Thybulle trades  The Sixer Sense

  • Potential Julius Randle Trade Jump-Starts Knicks & Kings – Sports Illustrated
    [www.si.com] — Monday, May 23, 2022 11:28:35 AM

    Potential Julius Randle Trade Jump-Starts Knicks & Kings  Sports Illustrated

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    108 thoughts to “Knicks Morning News (2022.05.24)”

    1. Some tidbits from Jeremy Woo, who tends to be pretty plugged in:

      “If there was ever actually any doubt, we can put it to rest: Daniels is a lock to come off the board in the top 10, and it may come sooner than you think.”

      “There’s a pretty real chance [Sochan] goes in the top 10, and if he doesn’t, I wouldn’t expect him to fall much further.”

      “Many around the league have wondered for months whether Williams can be the first center selected in this draft and overtake Memphis’s Jalen Duren, who was penciled in there for a while. It’s an idea that’s gathered momentum over time, and right now it feels to me like things are trending that way. While Duren—whom keen observers have felt appears shorter than his listed 6′ 11″—opted not to test or measure at the combine, Williams turned out to be even larger than expected.”

      The piece (https://www.si.com/nba/2022/05/23/nba-draft-combine-stock-watch-dyson-daniels-shaedon-sharpe-andrew-nembhard) is worth reading in its entirety but that’s the gist of it as far as guys who could conceivably be in our first-rounder range.

      Sad to see it sounds like Daniels is no longer an option, but I strongly agree with everyone who says winding up with Eason would be a perfectly good outcome. I’d be fine picking him at 11, but it’d be even better in a trade down obviously. T

      There are plenty of college bigs who put up great numbers that the eye-test screams are somewhat hollow as far as the NBA is concerned (e.g. Kessler), but Eason is definitely not one of them IMO. He’s a pretty explosive athlete, and what I really like about him is his handle is good enough to make him a tough matchup for most other PF/Cs.

      I think he can play 3-5 on both sides of the ball (mostly as a 4 or 5 but you can steal some wing minutes from him in some funky jumbo lineups) so as long as Randle is gone there should be no fit issues whatsoever.

    2. Alan: I may have had a lot of thoughts about last night’s Saul.

      Here is what I will say about the BB vs BCS debate: I think the creative team on Better Call Saul is simply better at what they do than they were on Breaking Bad. Older, wiser, learned lessons from the first show, etc. On a pure storytelling craft level, it’s a richer and better-executed series. At the same time, I would argue that Breaking Bad has the more compelling overall story, and does not have the prequel problem that frequently hamstrings the cartel world half of Saul. On BB, it always felt like anything could happen, short of Walt dying before the end, whereas here we know exactly how long Gus, Mike, the Cousins, etc., will live, and it can really hem in the narrative, regardless of how great those actors are. (Also, I remain amazed by how great a villain Lalo has turned out to be. Tony Dalton was such an amazing find by the casting team, so late in the game.)

      Well, just because we know how certain things happen doesn’t necessarily make the journey less interesting. Though, now that I think about it the building of the superlab storyline was pretty bad/boring (though it ended well) and lasted for several seasons so that might drag BCS back below BrBa.

    3. thenoblefacehumper: “If there was ever actually any doubt, we can put it to rest: Daniels is a lock to come off the board in the top 10, and it may come sooner than you think.”

      That would definitely be disappointing though maybe it means someone like Mathurin would become available at 11.

    4. Numbers mean either a lot or a little and usually only well after the fact. But Eason and Williams have better numbers than the other guys.

    5. vincoug: Well, just because we know how certain things happen doesn’t necessarily make the journey less interesting. Though, now that I think about it the building of the superlab storyline was pretty bad/boring (though it ended well) and lasted for several seasons so that might drag BCS back below BrBa.

      Yes, prequels are not inherently less interesting. But I do think this show in particular is very hemmed in by certain absolutes. Like, there was a scene earlier this season where danger was in the air, yet all but one character in the scene was alive on Breaking Bad. Or we know there is no way Lalo can win because of all Gus gets away with on BB.

      I have generally found the cartel half of the show less compelling than the lawyer half, especially since Gus was brought back. Love Giancarlo Esposito, but I don’t he or the writers have figured out an interesting take on this slightly younger and less powerful Gus. He is just a guy checking off boxes on things that need to happen before BB season 2.

    6. Alan: I have generally found the cartel half of the show less compelling than the lawyer half, especially since Gus was brought back. Love Giancarlo Esposito, but I don’t he or the writers have figured out an interesting take on this slightly younger and less powerful Gus. He is just a guy checking off boxes on things that need to happen before BB season 2.

      The cartel side is definitely less interesting than the lawyer side though Tony Dalton has really elevated it.

    7. Macri this morning on Mitch:

      “I dug into the rumor a bit and heard something similar: baring a significant change of course, Mitch will have a new home next season…All that being said, if – and it is a Mitchell Robinson-sized “if” at this point – New York lost their starting center for nothing and he simply walked into another team’s cap space in July, it would be a bungling of massive proportions on the part of Leon Rose and his front office…And why would losing Mitch for nothing be so bad? Let’s assume Robinson gets his market value of $13.5 million annually, which is the average annual salary Robert Williams III received on his extension with Boston last summer, and would put Mitch right around the 50th percentile in salary for starting centers across the league. Over the last two off-seasons, only once has a player switched teams in free agency by signing a contract worth at least that much per year and the team he was leaving didn’t get anything in return. That was when the Hawks signed Bogdan Bogdanovic to a four-year, $72 million offer sheet, but even that should come with an asterisk since it only took place after the initial sign and trade sending Bogey to the Bucks for Donte DiVincenzo and some other stuff was ruled illegal by the league due to tampering.”

    8. How can we bamboozle portland or sacramento?

      I said it last week (and I’m confident GM Dred would approve): RJ Barrett to Sacramento for the #4. Then take Murray or Ivey.

      Per Hollinger in the athletic:

      Sacramento has a clear win-now expectation, several front office members on the last year of their contracts and the fourth pick in the draft burning a hole in its pocket. One suspects that pick might be in play in return for some wing help.

    9. DRed: How can we bamboozle portland

      Ask our city government. They’ve been doing it for years.

    10. Man, just think about how good the Kings would be if they had RJ. They should really go for that.

    11. As for Portland, Hollinger also had this to say:

      The pick that seems even more certain to be on the move is Portland’s at No. 7, with sources saying the Blazers will push to immediately put a competitive team around Damian Lillard rather than start over. Detroit’s Jerami Grant has been the hot name here, but the Blazers could look at other options.

      If we take back Eric Bledsoe, the Blazers have about $40-$45 million in cap space to absorb salary. That’s enough to fit Randle and Burks. Maybe even Randle & Fournier with some more throw ins.

    12. Alan: Yes, prequels are not inherently less interesting. But I do think this show in particular is very hemmed in by certain absolutes. Like, there was a scene earlier this season where danger was in the air, yet all but one character in the scene was alive on Breaking Bad. Or we know there is no way Lalo can win because of all Gus gets away with on BB.

      I have generally found the cartel half of the show less compelling than the lawyer half, especially since Gus was brought back. Love Giancarlo Esposito, but I don’t he or the writers have figured out an interesting take on this slightly younger and less powerful Gus. He is just a guy checking off boxes on things that need to happen before BB season 2.

      Totally agree here. The lawyer half is where there is plenty of room to surprise viewers, including the ultimate fate of Jimmy in the frame story. I thought the cartel stuff would be a bit less focused on than it has, but that’s okay.

    13. TheClashFan: Totally agree here.The lawyer half is where there is plenty of room to surprise viewers, including the ultimate fate of Jimmy in the frame story.I thought the cartel stuff would be a bit less focused on than it has, but that’s okay.

      When it was a Mike Ehrmantraut character study, I thought that stuff was pretty excellent. Once you bring in Gus, though, and then Juan Bolsa, the Cousins, etc., etc. you’re not so much telling a story anymore as you are filling in gaps in the mythology, many of which did not need filling. Had anyone ever wondered how the Super Lab got built?

    14. Getting a decent lottery pick for Jerami Grant would be such a big win for Detroit.

    15. NBA Trade Report
      @NBATradeReport
      #Sources — Knicks will look to move C Nerlens Noel this off-season. Re-signing Mitchell Robinson becoming top priority. #NBA

      I mean, sure…..

    16. And I hear you, Noble and everyone else who thinks Julius Randle has the worst contract in the NBA and cannot be traded. But from Portland’s perspective, Randle’s contract status is actually better than Grant’s.

      Jerami Grant is in the final year of his contract before hitting UFA. If you’re Portland, you probably aren’t making that trade without an extension. And an extension isn’t going to be cheap. I would guess it would take something like 4 years, $125mm, to get Grant to forfeit becoming an UFA.

      So in truth, it would be Randle at 4 years, $107mm vs. Jerami Grant at 5 years, $145mm. Plus we can throw in a valuable vet like Fournier or Burks.

      If Portland is actually in the market for Grant, our offer makes much more sense.

    17. thenoblefacehumper: All that being said, if – and it is a Mitchell Robinson-sized “if” at this point – New York lost their starting center for nothing and he simply walked into another team’s cap space in July, it would be a bungling of massive proportions on the part of Leon Rose and his front office

      Macri’s take re; “Allowing a player to walk into someone’s else’s cap space” suggests that we have a modicum of control over whether a player decides to do so or not. In this case, the Knicks have absolutely no control over that decision whatsoever. The cards are all in Mitch’s hands. He would have to agree to a sign-and-trade.

      Macri fails to mention that it’s rare that a player would consider the “cap space” kind of deal the most desirable situation. It’s much more common for there to be multiple options, and for the player and his agent to choose an offer consistent with his needs. If another team offers more salary for more years to Mitch but has to execute a S&T to get it done, but Mitch prefers Detroit or a team that has enough open cap space to pay him w/o a S&T, that’s not on the Knicks. The same is true if no other team enters the bidding other than the team with open cap space and Mitch decides to take their offer, whether it is above, the same, or below what we offered.

      Obviously, if a S&T is both agreed to by Mitch and for desirable incoming assets (i.e. not just a bad contract or G-league stiffs) then I agree that it would be “bungling of massive proportions” to turn it down. But barring that, the “bungling” would be about either not offering Mitch 4/52 while he was coming off of a career-threatening injury, or not trading him at the deadline for a 2nd rounder.

    18. If Detroit gets that Portland pick, they would quickly become an exciting young team, especially if they sign Mitch. They could add some combo of Keegan/Dyson/Mathurin/Griffin to Cunningham and Bey. That’s a great, young lineup.

      I’m pretty sure Portland would prefer a newly signed Grant, but if that fell through, Randle could be a good consolation prize. I’m honestly not sure our FO would do that trade, though. A Sacto trade that would guarantee us a shot at Jaden Ivey would be better, but the money doesn’t really work there unless they want to trade Harrison Barnes (I don’t think they do.)

    19. ess-dog, I don’t think our front office would make either of those trades, too. And both of them are steals for us!

      But any notion that Jerami Grant is preferable to Julius Randle is, IMO, rooted in the anti-endowment effect that is frequently present here.

    20. It seems like at least some intriguing options will be on the board at 11. I just hope this doesn’t turn into “none of the three guys we liked was left so we’re trading down and getting nothing in return then drafting some high floor low ceiling guy at 22 instead.”

    21. Alan: When it was a Mike Ehrmantraut character study, I thought that stuff was pretty excellent. Once you bring in Gus, though, and then Juan Bolsa, the Cousins, etc., etc. you’re not so much telling a story anymore as you are filling in gaps in the mythology, many of which did not need filling. Had anyone ever wondered how the Super Lab got built?

      Yeah, I did wonder a bit, but I’d agree there has been a bit too much of that stuff. The Werner Ziegler subplot started out interesting, but I didn’t care for how it resolved (trying to avoid spoilers here). I realize it was really more about developing Mike’s character, but it ended up making me less sympathetic to him rather than more.

      I guess one emphasis of the show is developing ironic parallels between the lawyer and cartel “halves” of the story, illustrating in how lawyers and law firms sort of behave like drug lords and cartels in their own way. Maybe that’s why so much on that part of the storylines?

    22. Jerami Grant is a good (at least in theory) and versatile defensive player who unlocks a lot of lineups by being capable of slotting in as either a big or a wing depending on who else is on the floor. I definitely think he’s become pretty overrated over the last couple years and Detroit would be fortunate to get a high lottery pick for him but I don’t think Randle is a substitute for him at all.

    23. Had anyone ever wondered how the Super Lab got built?

      although it was actually kind of interesting, point taken…

      the episode is still on the dvr, i’ll watch it after running some errands today…

      funny with all the bad folks on the show – lalo’s the bad guy…i’m not so sure about that…

      i understand the production roster is a little different for BCS versus BB, i also think though a lot of the enhanced show quality comes from laying such a strong foundation over so many years now…

      whatever breaking bad iteration 3 comes along – it’ll be great…

      it’s very possible to still be “surprised”/engaged with a story even though you may know the “historical” outcome…

      and do what you can al to get our gal rhea’s name in the mix come emmy time…

    24. One thing that made me even higher on Eason was about his combine measurements. Per the Athletic:

      “Tari Eason (LSU) measured as well as expected at 6-foot-8 in shoes with a 7-foot-2 wingspan. The thing that popped off the page though was his 11-inch hand-width. That’s essentially a Kawhi Leonard-like mark, as the former San Diego State forward had 11 1/4-inch hands when he was at the combine back in 2011. Eason had the biggest hands at this combine. It’s hard to come up with a more ideal frame for a combo forward than Eason’s.”

      That might not sound like much, but I think hand width is a fairly important measurement for ball-handling wings–it’s what allows for Kawhi to put the ball on the floor and finish with such ease and grace even when driving into traffic (and helps him on defense, since, you know, giant hands). This doesn’t mean that Eason is going to be Kawhi (though his stats compare well to Kawhi’s…), but I don’t really see any box he doesn’t check outside of his shooting touch (and he shoots 80% from the line anyway, so I’m not all *that* worried about that). He’s still my top guy at #11 I think, especially if Daniels is gone, though I’d be happy with Mathurin or TyTy. and slightly less so with Branham or Jalen Williams.

    25. Z-man: not trading him at the deadline for a 2nd rounder.

      [citation needed]

      thenamestsam: Jerami Grant is a good (at least in theory) and versatile defensive player who unlocks a lot of lineups by being capable of slotting in as either a big or a wing depending on who else is on the floor. I definitely think he’s become pretty overrated over the last couple years and Detroit would be fortunate to get a high lottery pick for him but I don’t think Randle is a substitute for him at all.

      Yeah, I guess you could argue Randle is a better option as your highest usage player (not convinced of that FWIW)…but you don’t want either player in that role anyway. In a more circumscribed role you can rely on Grant to be a switchable if overrated defender, a reasonably good shooter, and a sneakily adept off-ball cutter. He’s a nearly ideal everyman for a contender.

      Does that sound like Julius Randle? I think every contending team would pick Grant over Randle.

    26. Z-man: Macri’s take re; “Allowing a player to walk into someone’s else’s cap space” suggests that we have a modicum of control over whether a player decides to do so or not. In this case, the Knicks have absolutely no control over that decision whatsoever. The cards are all in Mitch’s hands. He would have to agree to a sign-and-trade.

      The reason this is a rare occurrence and is associated with incompetent teams like the Kings when it does happen is smart teams don’t let it get to this point. This is why Aller wanted to trade him at the deadline, I presume.

      I know you think 4 teams called and all offered the same top-55 protected second-rounder. I guess we have no way of knowing who is right, but with 4 teams involved, and with Mitch being a good basketball player, I think we passed on more than that.

    27. JK47: “none of the three guys we liked was left so we’re trading down and getting nothing in return then drafting some high floor low ceiling guy at 22 instead.”

      But JK, none of THEIR GUYS were available! Don’t you get it?

      THEIR. GUYS.

    28. I would not be averse to trading down under the right circumstances. I’m always of the belief that two stabs in the dark are better than one when it comes to the draft because you really never know who will pan out.

      That being said, I’d also be interested in a trade up for Jaden Ivey, for instance. I can’t pretend to know as much as most of these scouts, but I believe that Aller is there to optimize our draft potential (even if last year’s #19 still sticks in your craw).

      Re: Eason, I like him but it’s not like he’s a guaranteed win. I know he’s got that sick BPM number, but 1. he played almost entirely bench minutes, 2. he has a funky, low shot release, and 3. his passing/dribbling is weak, making him, primarily IMO, a post player. I guess if we trade Randle he could be a nice backup for Toppin or even become better than him, but it’s not really where we should be putting our resources.

      If Agbaji really is the next Dez Bane, or Ivey the next Morant, sign me up. I think we can trust Perrin to figure it out.

    29. Jerami Grant is a good (at least in theory) and versatile defensive player who unlocks a lot of lineups by being capable of slotting in as either a big or a wing depending on who else is on the floor.

      Do you think the same isn’t true of Randle? I’m looking at their three-year averages (link below). They’re dead even in steals. Grant has a non-impactful edge in blocks. And Randle dominates Grant on the defensive boards. Randle has the edge in DRtg, too.

      Randle could unlock as many lineups as Grant can playing as a wing or a big. And Randle actually has some playmaking skills (albeit at a high turnover cost), whereas Grant passes to no one.

      Grant is a better shooter, but 98% of his 3PA’s are assisted. Randle is between 76-80% over the last two seasons.

      I just don’t see an evidence-based case for Grant being more suitable to being Lillard’s sidekick than Randle. And by this time next year, the contract situation will be overwhelmingly pro Randle (It will be 3 years, $80MM vs something like 4 years, $125-140MM).

      https://stathead.com/basketball/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&player_id1=grantje01&p1yrfrom=2020&p1yrto=2022&player_id2=randlju01&p2yrfrom=2020&p2yrto=2022

    30. thenoblefacehumper: I know you think 4 teams called and all offered the same top-55 protected second-rounder. I guess we have no way of knowing who is right, but with 4 teams involved, and with Mitch being a good basketball player, I think we passed on more than that.

      There’s some theoretical line between a team passing on an offer in a given situation being an terrible blunder and being totally justifiable. Where would you have put that line? A pick likely to convey as a top 40?

    31. “Re: Eason, I like him but it’s not like he’s a guaranteed win. I know he’s got that sick BPM number, but 1. he played almost entirely bench minutes, 2. he has a funky, low shot release, and 3. his passing/dribbling is weak, making him, primarily IMO, a post player. I guess if we trade Randle he could be a nice backup for Toppin or even become better than him, but it’s not really where we should be putting our resources.”

      He’s not really a post-player. He’s a very athletic combo forward who can’t really go left (solid handle right though with some shake even) and is mostly a catch and shoot guy from 3 at this point. But he’s a hellacious defender and a high IQ guy (I think his passing is a bit underrated, since LSU had him mostly play as a tertiary ball handler/finisher) who scored 28 points per 40 by shooting a few 3s, shooting 56% from 2, and getting to the line 9 (!) times per 40. He profiles more as an off-the-bounce forward right now than a slow-footed post-player in that respect (think someone like Antawn Jamison, Deng, or Josh Smith) I think if you draft him and fix his shooting mechanics (as the Spurs did with Kawhi) you have a bonafide all-star on your hands. If he doesn’t pan out you still have a rotation level multipositional combo forward who can stretch the floor and defend 3 or 4 positions. I think his floor and ceiling together represent the best value at our position in the draft, despite some fit worries with Obi and Randle around (though IQ/RJ/Grimes/Eason/Obi lineups would be the most fun lineup in the league next year)

    32. DRed: How can we bamboozle portland or sacramento?

      If somehow SAC loves Randle, i can see a deal being made, without it i don’t think we have pieces they would give the 4th pick for.
      About Portland, i’ll repeat that i think a deal would be easy. They want to trade out, and they want Jerami. The Pistons want a 1RP for Jerami, but pick #11 is also a lottery pick, Portland doesn’t need to send pick #7. Jerami’s contract doesn’t fit Portland’s TPE (by a little margin, 20.955 to 20.865), so we can offer a vet (Fournier, DRose or Burks) that fits the TPE with pick #11 for pick #7. Then they pack Bledsoe and pick #11 to Detroit for Jerami. One pick, two good vets. Win-win for everyone.

    33. Z-man: There’s some theoretical line between a team passing on an offer in a given situation being an terrible blunder and being totally justifiable. Where would you have put that line? A pick likely to convey as a top 40?

      When the alternative is nothing and you’re a team like the Knicks (i.e. light years away from contention, in need of every last edge), I will repeat that this is quite a low bar. So sure, a second-rounder outside of the typical buyable range would suffice.

      A non-zero chance at finding the next Herb Jones, Xavier Tillman, Daniel Gafford, Terance Mann, Nic Claxton, Mitchell Robinson, Jalen Brunson, De’Anthony Melton, Devonte’ Graham, Bruce Brown, Gary Trent Jr., etc. (these are examples just from the last four drafts) is worth more than…nothing! Nothing at all! Zip, zilch, nada.

      I am going to repeat that we have no idea if a non-buyable second-rounder is all we passed on, as you repeating it a bunch of times without evidence does not make it so. However even if that was the case, it is quite easy to make the case we should’ve taken that instead of letting Mitch worsen our draft position for 20 some odd games if he wasn’t gonna be here long-term. Our own pick would be better and we’d have an extra pick.

      But hey, nothing is nice too.

    34. Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada: I think his floor and ceiling together represent the best value at our position in the draft, despite some fit worries with Obi and Randle around (though IQ/RJ/Grimes/Eason/Obi lineups would be the most fun lineup in the league next year)

      Easy… TRADE RANDLE! :D And btw, you’re starting to convince me we should take Eason. ;)

    35. Grant is like a Morris twin. Very useful, versatile rotation wing for a lot of teams. We traded Marcus for the 27th pick, I think.

    36. I want no part of Agbaji. I do not mind drafting older players but there are some things I look for before drafting an older prospect.

      First, were they prospects before their breakout final year?
      Agbaji was not. He was not a highly recruited player out of high school and if he had declared for the draft last year he would have probably been undrafted. In fact prior to this year his stats are extremely underwhelming.

      Second, were they dominant?
      Agbaji was not a dominant player. He was a good player and the best player on a great team, but he did not carry the team or put up huge numbers in any way.

      Third, is he elite at anything?
      Agbaji seems like a good defnder and a solid shooter but neither thing particularly stands out. In fact he is elite at nothing. None of his stats stand out in any particular way.

      Four year college players to be worth lottery picks need to truly dominate and even then they often underperform their draft spot. Agbaji was not even dominant and I would be shocked if he overperforms his draft spot. I would be okay. but still not excited, drafting him at the end of the first round but no way is he worth a top 20 pick.

    37. There will be Agbaji-level prospects available in the second-round. Would be a disaster in the lottery. This is not Desmond Bane, who was an elite shooter for four years while he slowly rounded out his game. Agbaji was a non-prospect before he turned 22.

      Hubert: Do you think the same isn’t true of Randle? I’m looking at their three-year averages (link below). They’re dead even in steals. Grant has a non-impactful edge in blocks. And Randle dominates Grant on the defensive boards. Randle has the edge in DRtg, too.

      Randle could unlock as many lineups as Grant can playing as a wing or a big. And Randle actually has some playmaking skills (albeit at a high turnover cost), whereas Grant passes to no one.

      Grant is a better shooter, but 98% of his 3PA’s are assisted. Randle is between 76-80% over the last two seasons.

      Grant needs to be respected from 3, while Randle is reaching “just let him take those” status. I have no idea how to properly weigh his outlier season, but even with it Grant’s shooting numbers are better.

      Defensively, Randle is pretty limited to 4s and 5s and that’s assuming he’s in a good headspace or whatever. Sometimes he’s limited to uselessness on that end.

      Grant is not a lockdown defender, but at a minimum you can get away with putting him on 1-4 and his effort doesn’t wax and wane depending on how a video coordinator looked at him or something.

      Randle might be the more talented basketball player overall but what matters is how you can fit into a winning concept. Grant has shown he can do that pretty easily, Randle has shown he’s willing to do it if he’s the alpha, meaning the “winning” part of “winning concept” will be pretty limited.

    38. Tari Eason seems a reasonably safe bet to turn into a Thaddeus Young-type player as median outcome. Even if the shooting never comes around, he’s long/athletic/disruptive and can handle the ball a bit. And Thaddeus has been traded for first round picks like 5 times, so I would highly favor this pick if guys like Mathurin and Dyson Daniels are off the board.

    39. Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada: though IQ/RJ/Grimes/Eason/Obi lineups would be the most fun lineup in the league next year

      This made me think that Mitch is also super fast down the court, are the centers from the scrapheap fast down the court? I don’t think so. If we’re switching to a faster pace with the kids, we should re-sign Mitch.

    40. thenoblefacehumper: However even if that was the case, it is quite easy to make the case we should’ve taken that instead of letting Mitch worsen our draft position for 20 some odd games if he wasn’t gonna be here long-term.

      Context is important. You have made clear from the get-go that you wouldn’t have chosen to be in the position we were in, starting from the very moment that Rose was hired (and many years before, I may add.)

      But the context of this discussion is what it is. The team was still trying to be competitive. The FO and the coach acted on the belief that it was still useful to try to win games on the backs of a) market-value vets, b) Julius Randle and c) Mitch. If you are unable to factor that context into the discussion, there’s no point in having the discussion in the first place. The original sins make nearly every individual move Rose et. al. has made or will make pretty irrelevant.

      You also discount the gambling aspect of not trading him for a pittance. There was no information at the deadline available to us as to whether or not Mitch would agree to an extension. Maybe his agent indicated that he would be amenable, and then changed his mind. If we traded Mitch for a 2nd rounder and then his agent said afterwards that he would have signed an extension but the Knicks refused to wait, then my guess is that the same folks who are crying foul an fossibly losing him for nothing now would be doing the same over trading him for “nothing” then.

    41. was just drafting my life’s story and suddenly realized – where’s max???

      hope all is well for you sir…it’s funny, what made me think of max was how i had planned to spend this morning…things didn’t go as planned, but – still made me think of max :)

    42. I didn’t watch Breaking Bad until the series was long over, but I found it so compelling I was bingeing a season every two days. I think it was superior to Better Call Saul even though I love the characters in Better Call Saul. Unfortunately, this season of BCS has been disappointing to me. I’m not exactly sure what it is, but I’m not enjoying the lawyer part much this season and I don’t think they are developing the cartel part up to its potential even though it’s good.

      I just finished binging Ozark. That’s another great show. Julia Garner may have an Academy Award in her future. IMO, her job with “Ruth” was sensational. I loved that character.

    43. If the Knicks like Robinson, and think they can convince him to stay this summer, isn’t that reason enough not to trade him at the deadline (and risk losing him “for nothing”)? There’s more to the game than just asset-maximization (but I’ve said my peace on this already).

    44. “Do you think the same isn’t true of Randle? I’m looking at their three-year averages (link below). They’re dead even in steals. Grant has a non-impactful edge in blocks. And Randle dominates Grant on the defensive boards. Randle has the edge in DRtg, too.”

      I very much am not a believer in Randle’s defense, but even if you think he’s decent on that end, I don’t think anyone would claim he’s “versatile”. Randle is a one-position PF in a league where that position barely exists as a concept anymore; maybe he can play C (although we haven’t seen it at all the last couple years) but certainly you’re not going to expect to guard anyone in those alignments and the idea of playing him on the wing is silly. Jerami Grant had the primary assignment on Lebron in a playoff series two seasons ago, the concept of even trying to do that with Randle pretty obviously does not compute. If Randle can do all the things you’re attributing to him, why would we want to trade him?

    45. “I know you think 4 teams called and all offered the same top-55 protected second-rounder. I guess we have no way of knowing who is right, but with 4 teams involved, and with Mitch being a good basketball player, I think we passed on more than that.”

      The complication was that Mitch was hurt last season, came to camp this season out of shape, and was rushed into game action because Nerlens was hurting. So management learned very little about him last year and even less in the first part of this season. He was just beginning to round into peak form around the time of the deadline. How do you trade a guy when you don’t know what you have yet?

      If you move him for anything less than a great return and he breaks out for a new team you are a moron.

      If you don’t move him and you wind losing him for nothing you are a moron.

      It’s a tough situation. They wanted to see the rest of the season before making a decision. That has left them in an uncomfortable position, but nothing bad has happened yet. We have no idea what the conversations have been like both last year and now.

    46. Eason has a shot at being one of the best defenders in the league. Even if his offense never progresses, that’s a valuable piece. He looks like a potential shutdown defender 1-4, with the potential and length to do the same to 5s.

      On the other side, Eason shot very well from 3 (albeit on few attempts) & from the line despite having a shooting motion most considered broke. I generally think those that can hit shots with a broken mechanic are a better bet than those with good mechanics but still miss, some players have an innate ability to aim well.

      Some question his scoring because he often scored on fast breaks and against college 5s. But when you put up as many points as Eason did, then I think you trust your development staff to figure it out. Watching clips, I’m not sure many 4s can stay in front of Eason either.

    47. Some question his scoring because he often scored on fast breaks and against college 5s.

      This was a critique against Obi, too. It doesn’t sound like their offensive games are identical, but a high energy Obi type who is a genuine asset on defense as opposed to someone where you hold your breath on that end? That could be interesting.

    48. caught the covid cooties…woke up with a sore throat saturday morning, didn’t think much of it…later on noticed a cough…sunday morning had a bit of a fever…no fever since…cough and congestion though…tested today…

      who knows exactly when or where it came…I have a feeling though that 311 concert last week may have played a role…feeling like typhoid mary for possibly exposing some loved ones…

      nothing too bad as far as symptoms, was putting together a nice outfit for the black crowes show friday, oh well…was meaning to figure out the whole food delivery thing sooner or later, looks like it’s gonna be sooner…must get better by erykah badu :)

      fuck, I was just starting to be social again, now I gotta bunker up…thankfully there’s plenty of weed and food in the house…my plan this morning was that after I got my negative covid results I was gonna head over to sprouts to go pick up some cold milk in a bottle…I love cold milk in a bottle…then I was gonna head over to severinos to pick up some lunch meat, cheese and salad (not the green kind)…somewhere along the way pick up a baguette or two…

      bit of humor thrown in – after hearing the results (so hard to refrain from asking: are you sure?!?!?) I cussed and screamed all the way back to my car, hahahahahahahahaha…

      thankfully I had a mask on, which may have left some people to wonder where all the noise was coming from…therapy has taught me that damn near every emotion ends in anger somehow…

      i realize, relatively I’m doing fine…i’m just pissed…cuz, anger beats most other easily achievable emotions…oh, another daily bean revelation, humor doesn’t equal happiness, that and I can’t really tell the difference between excitement and anxiety…

      anyways, hope everyone’s day is flowing along smoothly…time to go say prayers for the people I may have fucked over with my germs…

    49. Strat, don’t get me started on Ozark. Yes, Julia Garner is incredible (the second she turned up on The Americans, my wife and I were like, “Who IS this?”), and there some other good elements, but my god was so much of it complacent repackaging of material from much better shows like Breaking Bad and Justified. It seemed a show designed entirely to service the “If you liked that, you’ll enjoy this” part of the Netflix algorithm.

    50. Z-man: The team was still trying to be competitive.

      We were 25-31 on the day of the trade deadline. Everyone on Earth knew the goal to be “competitive” in this particular season was already not met. The only remaining question was whether we could get the 10th “seed” (in quotes because this is a “seed” that did not exist until recently).

      Reasonable minds can differ on the merits of being “competitive” in a meaningful sense of the word, but is there a constituency here that advocates surrendering assets for the damn 10th seed?!

      Z-man:

      There was no information at the deadline available to us as to whether or not Mitch would agree to an extension. Maybe his agent indicated that he would be amenable, and then changed his mind. If we traded Mitch for a 2nd rounder and then his agent said afterwards that he would have signed an extension but the Knicks refused to wait, then my guess is that the same folks who are crying foul an fossibly losing him for nothing now would be doing the same over trading him for “nothing” then.

      Yet somehow other teams manage to not let their valuable free agents slip away in unrestricted free agency for nothing. Brock Aller sure seemed to know things were headed in this direction.

      The idea that people would’ve been furious if we flipped him ignores the fact that *at the time* the people you’re saying would have “cried foul” were saying “I would strongly prefer to just re-sign Mitch, but if we’re not going to we should obviously trade him for the best package available.”

    51. geo: was just drafting my life’s story and suddenly realized – where’s max???
      hope all is well for you sir…it’s funny, what made me think of max was how i had planned to spend this morning…things didn’t go as planned, but – still made me think of max :)

      That’s cool, sometimes i miss Max’s comments too. ;)
      Back in March i asked Max about his annual expedition to the Dolomites, and his answer was: “June 11th to July 16th, five weeks this year, I’m counting the days…”. I bet he’s training hard to be ready for this expedition. :)

    52. “But the context of this discussion is what it is. The team was still trying to be competitive. The FO and the coach acted on the belief that it was still useful to try to win games ”

      Some of these discussion have become pointless.

      If some people think there is no upside to trying to win games unless the team is already becoming a contender then they are going to be focused on accumulating young players and picks and maximizing the draft position.

      That’s not what most teams do and it’s not what we are doing.

      This management wants to accumulate picks and young talent where it can, but it also wants the current young players to learn faster by playing with good veterans, learn how to close out close games because they are actually good enough to be in that position a lot, get mentally tougher from the experience of a playoff push and then the playoffs themselves, and importantly make the team a better trade and FA destination.

      Once you understand what THEY are trying to do instead of what you want to do, you can better understand and evaluate their moves. They are NOT going to do what the consensus on this forum wants because they don’t think it’s the best way to go. The End. You have to get past that even you’d prefer the 76er/OKC route.

    53. Donnie Walsh:
      If the Knicks like Robinson, and think they can convince him to stay this summer, isn’t that reason enough not to trade him at the deadline (and risk losing him “for nothing”)? There’s more to the game than just asset-maximization (but I’ve said my peace on this already).

      This remains my strongly preferred outcome! If we re-sign Mitch I will happily withdraw any and all complaints about the situation. I’m basing my opinion on the reports that he’s as good as gone.

      I have adored the guy since his first summer league game and very much am hoping against hope he’s starting for us on opening night.

      geo: caught the covid cooties…woke up with a sore throat saturday morning, didn’t think much of it…later on noticed a cough…sunday morning had a bit of a fever…no fever since…cough and congestion though…tested today…

      You and me both. NYU Law graduation appears to have been a superspreader event. I’m honestly fine and would’ve had no idea if I didn’t test, which I only did to satisfy the request of the host of a party I was supposed to attend on Sunday. I had a low grade cold for about a day and now have no symptoms. Vaccines work, folks!

      Obviously, mild/asymptomatic cases are way, way better than any alternative, but it is a bit frustrating to feel completely normal and still be confined to your tiny NYC apartment (in my case anyway). Still, happy to do my part.

    54. Get well guys! I have to say, everyone I know who hadn’t gotten covid seems to have gotten in it in the last month.

    55. Eason is not going to get those easy layups in a league with mobile 7-footers waiting for him, and it’s laughable to compare him to Kawhi. He has close to no midrange game and isn’t some terrific leaper, despite being long/tall. His defensive effort should translate, at least.

      But whatever, everyone falls in love with “their” guys around this time. I’m sure he’ll be a decent pro like many of these kids.

    56. Get better soon GEO.

      A lot of Covid still going around.

      It’s a miracle I didn’t catch it yet. My girlfriend caught at a wedding we both attended. I drove home with her in a closed car, slept with her for several days when she was already sick (but still testing negative), worked with her in a small bedroom while she was sneezing and coughing, and she refused to wear a mask in my presence (I wore one) for days while she was positive. I never caught it. There is zero question I came into close contact with her multiple times while she was contagious. She says I must have inherited some special immunity from Sicilian plagues survivors. I think it was the vitamin D3, A, C, Echinacea, Goldenseal, and Betadine nasal spray I used 4 times daily as a preventative measure. Most likely it was luck.

    57. Alan:
      Strat, don’t get me started on Ozark. Yes, Julia Garner is incredible (the second she turned up on The Americans, my wife and I were like, “Who IS this?”), and there some other good elements, but my god was so much of it complacent repackaging of material from much better shows like Breaking Bad and Justified. It seemed a show designed entirely to service the “If you liked that, you’ll enjoy this” part of the Netflix algorithm.

      I know exactly what you saying, but I didn’t mind it. I guess that formula worked well for me again. I needed more. :-)

    58. You and me both.

      another plus from the therapy stuff is my “bigger” picture perspective…you know i talk every week and go over the shit that’s happened, and, it’s always like – wow, that’s a lot of shit going on…

      i’m only now really understanding – that everyone’s life is like this…maybe a little less, maybe a little more…all 100 billion plus of us over time…

      oh yeah – finally got my work termination date, end of august…i should be back at it by early to mid august though…my desire to shop seems to outweigh my desire to not have to work…

      i’m just gonna try to be a lot smarter about how i work going forward…hell, a lot smarter with my health too…

      breathe…breathe…breathe…

    59. ess-dog:
      Eason is not going to get those easy layups in a league with mobile 7-footers waiting for him, and it’s laughable to compare him to Kawhi. He has close to no midrange game and isn’t some terrific leaper, despite being long/tall. His defensive effort should translate, at least.

      But whatever, everyone falls in love with “their” guys around this time. I’m sure he’ll be a decent pro like many of these kids.

      It would have been laughably to compare Kawhi the college player to Kawhi the 2xFMVP back in 2011. Except for one or two players in every draft, most draftees are really a question mark, even the highest floor-low ceiling projected guys end up anywhere from from end of the bench to all-stars. Tari Eason has a lot of things going for him, he has good numbers, good size, and he is not too old. Steals and blocks usually translate to good players, and 80%FT gives credibility to his shooting numbers. He is a reasonable bet… and I dont see that many mobile 7 footers in the playoffs right now, ;-)

    60. geo:

      putting together a nice outfit for the black crowes show friday, oh well…

      i was thinking of going to see them when they are here in norcal but the ticket prices were insane…then again…i just paid 300 for a dylan ticket for one of his oakland shows…

    61. “If you liked that, you’ll enjoy this” part of the Netflix algorithm.

      i was just watching the latest episode of Barry and it was funny that Sally’s show got canceled because of an algorithm…

    62. ess-dog:
      Eason is not going to get those easy layups in a league with mobile 7-footers waiting for him, and it’s laughable to compare him to Kawhi. He has close to no midrange game and isn’t some terrific leaper, despite being long/tall. His defensive effort should translate, at least.

      But whatever, everyone falls in love with “their” guys around this time. I’m sure he’ll be a decent pro like many of these kids.

      I wouldn’t bet on Eason becoming Kawhi, but it’s worth mentioning that nobody thought Kawhi was going to become Kawhi either. People expected Kawhi to be somewhere between bad and mediocre on offense.

      Kawhi was a much better passer than Eason as Eason doesn’t pass a ton and turns the ball over a lot.

      But falling short of being Kawhi isn’t a knock on a player at any draft position, let alone 11.

      Eason is a year older, but did racked up 3.2 more STOCKS/100 than Kawhi did. Eason also nearly doubled Kawhi’s FT/100 and took more 3s than Kawhi while hitting them at a higher %. Eason played in the SEC while Kawhi played in a mid-major.

      Eason looks to have a high floor and high ceiling. He could develop into a standout 2-way player, a Trevor Ariza type defensive stopper, or maybe the next Draymond Green.

      Eason does a lot of things well. For instance, Sochan is 2 years younger and has some passing upside Eason didn’t have, but Sochan has shown nothing as a shooter, scored half as many PTS/36, and looks slower defending the perimeter than Eason. People are gambling on Sochan developing any offensive game at all. Eason already has one.

      Picking 11 I just don’t think you can ignore Eason’s numbers on both sides of the ball.

    63. Grant needs to be respected from 3,

      He’s converted 35% of 1,656 3PA’s. And over 97% were assisted. That does not demand respect.

      Grant is not a lockdown defender, but at a minimum you can get away with putting him on 1-4

      Citation needed. I suspect that if Jerami Grant switches on to a WC-playoff team’s 1 or 2 (we’re talking Booker, Mitchell, Curry, Murray, etc), he’s completely toast.

      his effort doesn’t wax and wane depending on how a video coordinator looked at him or something

      That’s just a gratuitous swipe at Randle, as I do not believe you paid attention to Jerami Grant’s mental focus over the last two years.

      what matters is how you can fit into a winning concept. Grant has shown he can do that pretty easily,

      Grant has not been part of much winning since he stopped being the 4th or 5th best player on his team. And I don’t think you want to give up the #7 pick in the draft and paying big money to the guy who had a 15.4 USG on OKC.

      Randle has shown he’s willing to do it if he’s the alpha

      I am not buying the idea that Julius Randle will be unwilling to play winning basketball if he is Dame Lillard’s beta.

    64. Grant may not demand respect as a shooter, but Randle was often ignored in the 2nd half of the season.

      Grant playing off the ball is a plus for Portland. They have Simons & Lillard for creation. And Lillard is one of the few players who can basically take every shot if need be.

      Portland might welcome Randle, but there’s legitimate reasons to think Portland rather have Grant. If nothing else, Portland was actively seeking Grant and wouldn’t need to give up an actual player. Portland is dedicated to their very weird flash rebuild for Dame, so holding their current players has a lot of appeal.

      The #7 pick is a steep price for Grant, I’d guess Portland tries to trade down and exchange their new, lower pick for Grant. NOP making the playoffs screwed them out of a pick (lol, Lakers)and the more straight forward Grant for pick exchange.

    65. Also, theoretically Portland can acquire Grant and Randle. Grant for the trade exception and Randle for 1yr of the walking corpse of Bledsoe. Plus whatever picks get the deals done.

    66. well I was going to write something about something but I see there’s another school shooting, now in an elementary school with 14 kids and 1 teacher dead, and, well, this country is totally fucked. Wonder whether a Sandy Hook-type event happening in gun country might change anything… who am I kidding.

    67. Likewise something about something pre-empted. Columbine opened up a massive gape in the nation’s soul from which it has yet to recover.

      On the policy front, there’s a very good chance the Supreme Court will hold that laws like New York’s where you have to have a license to carry, are unconstitutional — which means that essentially the Second Amendment, according to the court, will mean anyone anytime gets to have a gun on the NYC subway if they want and the citizens of NY can’t legislate otherwise.

      That state of affairs in the year 2022, in a highly urban nation, is abjectly insane.

      That decision will come out at roughly the time the Dobbs decision overruling Roe v. Wade comes out. That very well could be the end. If those two cases turn out that way — and the odds are very high that they do — you’ll start hearing massive rumblings that the blue states/areas have to get out.

    68. Hubert: He’s converted 35% of 1,656 3PA’s. And over 97% were assisted. That does not demand respect.

      Worth nothing he’s at 37% over the last 4 seasons and his career number is weighed down by early struggles he seems to have put in the past, but 35% reflects the fact that he is in fact respected from behind the arc and thus doesn’t just get to shoot open 3s.

      We can measure this–only 42% of his 3s from this past season were wide open. Why isn’t that 100% if teams are treating him like Dwight Howard out there?

      Hubert: Citation needed. I suspect that if Jerami Grant switches on to a WC-playoff team’s 1 or 2 (we’re talking Booker, Mitchell, Curry, Murray, etc), he’s completely toast.

      Yes I don’t think anyone is acquiring Jerami Grant with the idea that he’s the Superstar Stopper, but he can in fact credibly guard 4 positions. I am sure there are ways to quantify this but it’s pretty much just common sense–he’s a fairly mobile 6’8″ guy whose teams haven’t suffered defensively when he’s on the floor. Again, this does not apply to Julius Randle.

      Hubert: That’s just a gratuitous swipe at Randle, as I do not believe you paid attention to Jerami Grant’s mental focus over the last two years.

      Randle’s success seems to rely on various external factors, evidenced by the volatility in his play over the past 4 years. Grant has pretty much been the exact same player for the past 4 years. It makes sense the a team trying to win now would prefer that certainty.

    69. Hubert: Grant has not been part of much winning since he stopped being the 4th or 5th best player on his team. And I don’t think you want to give up the #7 pick in the draft and paying big money to the guy who had a 15.4 USG on OKC.

      He was on a conference finalist Nuggets team! They wanted to keep him so badly they matched Detroit’s intentional overpay of an offer. The fact that he’s willingly limited his usage to facilitate winning is a feature not a bug to Portland–they’re looking for a reliable 4th option, not a miscast 1/2nd option like Randle.

      Is the 7th overall pick too much to trade for a reliable 4th option? Yes, if you ask me, but that’s a separate question from whether they should prefer him to Randle.

      Hubert: I am not buying the idea that Julius Randle will be unwilling to play winning basketball if he is Dame Lillard’s beta.

      I have no earthly clue, but I suspect we’ll find out that the Blazers feel this way when they trade for Grant, not Randle. Hope I’m wrong!

    70. Basketball:

      1. Yes, letting an asset like Mitch walk for nothing is Sacto-adjacent or worse.
      2. Agbaji was very much a prospect before this year. He in part drove Quentin Grimes out of Kansas. If the argument is that 11 is too high for him, fine — but he’s absolutely a prospect. He’s a better prospect than Grimes and way above a second-rounder.
      3. It’s a fair fantasy that either Sacto or Portland rationalize moving real assets for Randle.
      4. I’d maybe think of RJ for 4, but the only way that works/makes sense is if you strip everything else down other than the last two draft classes and start over. There’s no sense “restarting the clock” if they’re not actually restarting the clock — and they aren’t going to restart the clock. They’ll never do it.

    71. what a tragedy…

      yay free market and the environment it creates…especially when your top sellers are guns, drugs and alcohol…

      yeah, no shortages anywhere in the US of that kind of stuff…

    72. E, I don’t agree with you much, but tip of the hat today. Sadly so.

      I think the Julius/Jerami question is fascinating. As someone earlier said, Jerami can slot into almost any team rather seamlessly, or so it seems. But he seems a solid #3 guy at best, maybe a #4 on a very good team. Julius, assuming what we saw two years ago wasn’t entirely some mass hallucination (and we can’t rule that out) and that his Hendryx-level manic-depression (or whatever) is fixable, brings some really interesting synergy to Dame’s game. One can imagine an offensive pairing that would be a nightmare to defend.

      I wouldn’t touch Julius with a 10-foot pole, but I could see the potential positives as seductive to a FO.

    73. “That state of affairs in the year 2022, in a highly urban nation, is abjectly insane.”

      I often wonder if people who say or write things like that actually have any idea of what the actual statistics are on gun violence over time in the United States. Or where gun violence happens in relation to the severity of gun control laws.

      This discussion too frequently has little to do with facts or even theory and too much to do with narcissistic contempt for fellow citizens, combined with a bizarrely childlike faith that letting the government be the only one with guns won’t have any impact on how society functions or our liberties are protected.

      Mike

    74. It’s true, Mike, I really feel I don’t shoot enough people who impinge on my liberties. Maybe I need to change that.

      Although no driving with guns. Bad Raven, bad…

    75. MBunge: narcissistic contempt for fellow citizens

      I think the narcissistic contempt for fellow citizens is being demonstrated by the side that fights to make sure events like this are possible, you utter fucking clown.

    76. thenoblefacehumper: thenoblefacehumper
      May 24, 2022 at 3:21 pm
      Donnie Walsh:
      If the Knicks like Robinson, and think they can convince him to stay this summer, isn’t that reason enough not to trade him at the deadline (and risk losing him “for nothing”)? There’s more to the game than just asset-maximization (but I’ve said my peace on this already).

      This remains my strongly preferred outcome! If we re-sign Mitch I will happily withdraw any and all complaints about the situation. I’m basing my opinion on the reports that he’s as good as gone.

      I have adored the guy since his first summer league game and very much am hoping against hope he’s starting for us on opening night.

      This question and your response sort of sum up my issue with your position. On one hand, you say that we should have traded Mitch at the deadline for a pittance rather than risk losing him for nothing. On the other hand, you say that losing him for nothing is a horrific blunder, so you are thrilled that we still have a chance to sign him. These positions are not compatible.

      I get that you love the guy, he’s usually fun to watch and root for. But there’s a point where it seems to be hampering your ability to objectively consider the circumstances without resorting to a hyperbolic blame game if you beloved Mitch flies the coop of his own accord.

    77. MBunge:
      “That state of affairs in the year 2022, in a highly urban nation, is abjectly insane.”

      I often wonder if people who say or write things like that actually have any idea of what the actual statistics are on gun violence over time in the United States.Or where gun violence happens in relation to the severity of gun control laws.

      This discussion too frequently has little to do with facts or even theory and too much to do with narcissistic contempt for fellow citizens, combined with a bizarrely childlike faith that letting the government be the only one with guns won’t have any impact on how society functions or our liberties are protected.

      Mike

      Mike, do you really believe that places like England, Australia, Canada, etc. are police states where liberties are constantly at risk?

    78. Narcissistic contempt is kind of a hilarious phrasing, truly . If you have any experience with a true malignant narcissist, the DSM version, you are definitely for gun control.

    79. letting the government be the only one with guns won’t have any impact on how society functions or our liberties are protected

      Nobody is saying to “let the government be the only one with guns” so take your straw man and shove it up your ass

    80. Z-man: These positions are not compatible.

      They are quite easily compatible. I hope we keep him, but if we don’t that’s something we should’ve foresaw and traded him accordingly.

      Again, there’s a reason only stupid teams lose valuable UFAs for nothing in return–in this situation the smart teams assess the likelihood that they’ll be able to keep the player in question, and unless they’re contending for something remotely interesting (i.e. not the “10th seed”), they make the decision on that basis.

      It seems like we did the first part and concluded he’d probably leave, hence Aller wanting to trade him. But Thibs wanted to keep him so that we’d have a better record over our last 27 games and won that particular power struggle.

      That is the process of a dumb team.

      I mean Dallas was competing for far, far more than we were this season, obviously, and people were still saying they should trade Brunson at the deadline if he was going to walk in the offseason. They didn’t, and they’ll have egg on their face if he walks (I don’t think he will). Atlanta was better than us this season and traded Reddish rather than watching him walk. I could go on and on but this is standard practice.

      The examples of a team letting a good, young player walk for nothing in free agency really are quite sparse and are almost always examples of rank incompetence. Even the Kings had a deal for Bogey lined up before it got quashed by the league.

      If we join those ranks and you defend it, it might be an example of your instinct to defend these guys hampering your ability to objectively consider the circumstances.

    81. I can understand why some people gun people are afraid of what our police would do if private citizens didn’t have guns. In this country our police are fuckjng scary and basically act with impunity and zero consequences when they kill people. We have a hyper militarized police state. So some people are afraid to give up their guns. The irony is those people tend to also be super pro police and scoff at any notion of police reform. Cops in Canada, Australia, etc…generally don’t walk around with loaded guns all the time and don’t shoot their citizens as often as ours do here.

    82. Who exactly fights back against cops and lives to tell the tale? What the fuck are you going to do with your gun against a cop?

    83. Most gun reform is about performing background checks or a brief psych evaluation. You know, preventing career criminals and psychopaths from going on shooting sprees. These reforms have near universal support among voters when explained. However, these bills are DOA thanks to the NRA and dumbass voters instinctively saying no without bothering to understand the bill.

    84. Any man’s death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind; and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee.

      …bunge…bunge…bunge…

    85. combined with a bizarrely childlike faith that letting the government be the only one with guns won’t have any impact on how society functions or our liberties are protected

      There are a hell of a lot of guns in this country and it didn’t seem to protect the right of a woman to have a medical procedure that could save her life from a deadly ectopic pregnancy. Maybe we need a little violence to save the country from fascism, no?

      But actually, why the fuck can’t we own frag grenades, Mike? You expect guns to be enough? How about anti-aircraft weapons? Should we be able to own them? The government has choppers and planes. You surely can’t expect me to defend myself from a drone strike with a measly little AR-15. Since 1986 I haven’t been able to buy an M249 or M2 Browning or RPD or GE Minigun without the ATF getting involved. Where’s the outrage, Mike? Why aren’t you standing up for our freedoms?

    86. He was on a conference finalist Nuggets team! They wanted to keep him so badly they matched Detroit’s intentional overpay of an offer. The fact that he’s willingly limited his usage to facilitate winning is a feature not a bug to Portland.

      And he liked that role so much that he walked away from it to go be the man on the worst team in the NBA, without even getting a better offer. That is a pretty big bug if you ask me.

      Grant’s extension demand is rumored to be 4 years, $112mm. That would make his total contract 5 years, $132MM. If Jerami Grant were a Knick and Leon Rose gave him 5 years, $132MM, you would be calling it the worst and most untradeable contract in the NBA.

    87. they’re looking for a reliable 4th option, not a miscast 1/2nd option like Randle

      You don’t give up the #7 pick in the draft and shell out $132MM for a reliable 4th option. They are looking for Lillard’s #2 and depth. We can offer them Randle and Burks, possibly even Randle and Fournier. Detroit can only offer Grant.

      I think we’d have a huge advantage if we actually put the offer on the table. But we’re not, because we’re trying to do the same stupid flash rebuild Portland is.

    88. thankfully, the one thing that hasn’t stopped happening in america over time is change…

      everything comes at a cost, who knows what it will be, this alternative is unimaginable…armed to the teeth, and civilized nation, just don’t seem to go together…

      it’s like some incredibly evil lottery floating around through out our country…

      edit: what makes it even worse, it’s been very well documented for decades now…

      we just listened and witnessed over the last decade these murderous bigoted bombs be created…

      it sucks…

    89. Someone wrote a letter to the editor of NY TImes after the Buffalo shooting that perfectly sums up the Republican response to gun violence:

      The Republican checklist after a mass shooting:

      Thoughts and prayers: Check.

      This is not the time: Check.

      Let’s not politicize: Check.

      Guns are not the problem: Check.

      Just enforce the laws we have: Check.

      More mental health care: Check.

      (Repeat.)

      Jon Merritt
      Los Angeles

    90. The Pistons seem willing to trade Grant and Portland wants him. It’s likely to get done, even if now there are better possibilities on the table for Portland. I mean “decisions were already made”. I say this because I just finished reading “The Guns of August” which describes how World War I started. Some decisions were made in the expectation of certain events and then not changed when events changed. For example, invading Serbia. The Serbians basically accepted all the conditions Austria-Hungary said were needed to avoid the invasion. But those conditions were set with the expectation that Serbia would say no. Austria-Hungary invaded anyway.

    91. By the way, it’s a great book with lots of parallels to events today.

    92. On the very day that 14 school children were shot to death, the GOP nominated Herschel Walker to run for the US Senate. He has a long history of domestic violence and held a gun to a woman’s while threatening to kill her.

      Sad day for America.

    93. It’s so fucking scary. Shootings at elementary schools and a good portion of the country thinks we have too much gun restriction. I’ve lost one daughter. The thought of sending my second one to a school in a few years where some psycho can walk in and shoot her is terrifying.Never mind the psychological trauma she is going to endure at a way too early age having to learn about this stuff through active shooter drills.

      How anyone can read what happened today (or a few days before that or a few days before that) and think we don’t need to do something about guns in this country is beyond me. Our country is swimming in them. We want to protect all unborn fetuses but the second they’re born if they get shot at a school oh well. WTF is wrong with us?

    94. I’m just sick … as a parent of young children I feel completely helpless … I feel like I need to sit outside their school and patrol it myself … what in the world is happening

    95. The numbers are up to like 18 dead children and 3 adults (maybe one being the 18 year old shooter). And, it’ll change nothing.

      Sickening.

    96. I have a four year old and also a wife who is a teacher. So yeah. Not great.

      I’m sure this will get much better when the fascist theocracy takes over though.

    97. It really is an incredible display of collective paranoia that the same people who are proud of living in the nation that has the strongest army ever assembled also believe they need guns to protect themselves against their own government.

      Like dude, if your government somehow decides to take over your shitty home because they’ve unveiled themselves as a communist conspiracy state they’ll just drone strike that shit like they do to middle eastern family homes, what good is a damn AR-15 going to do.

    98. thenoblefacehumper: Again, there’s a reason only stupid teams lose valuable UFAs for nothing in return

      Stupid teams also sign “valuable” guys to long term deals only to deeply regret it in short order. Funny how you never mentioned those outcomes. You also seem to ignore that when teams give up something for signing a UFA it’s nearly always because they don’t have the cap space to make the deal work, so it depends on whether the UFA is willing to go to a team with cap space or not. You neglect to mention that most UFAs want to choose their teams and tend to choose competitive teams that don’t have enough cap space to outright sign them. Or alternatively, that the sign-and-trade allows a player to sign a higher max deal than if he just did a straight UFA deal.

      But sure, we should have taken one of those second rounders offered for him at the deadline. I’m sure that would have put an end to the complaining. Right. Just like if we get a David Lee-type return for him in a sign-and-trade, that would stop the complaining. Right.

    99. “what good is a damn AR-15 going to do.”

      Ask the guys now running Afghanistan.

      The other side, of course, is that the same people who run around screaming FASCIST and NAZI at their political opponents are perfectly content to let a government run by those fascists and Nazis have the only guns. I mean, everybody does realize that Donald Trump is right now the odds on favorite to win the Presidency in 2024? Think he might have a few grudges he’ll want to resolve?

      Mike

    100. The other side, of course, is that the same people who run around screaming FASCIST and NAZI at their political opponents are perfectly content to let a government run by those fascists and Nazis have the only guns.

      Except that literally nobody is saying that they want to ban guns. This is just some made up bullshit, but you’ve proven over and over again here that you’re a complete simpleton who feels the need to sign his name to all of his posts so I guess I should keep my expectations low.

    101. We lost a 5-year-old niece last Sunday to a sudden health emergency. Woke up one morning and she was unresponsive from seizures. Died the next day. Just got back from Utah, having put my hands for the first time on a child’s casket to carry her into her funeral service. Just a beautiful young life lost for nothing, for no reason, no purpose.

      I cannot imagine how anyone involved can process what happened today, especially knowing that other countries have done what needs to be done to minimize the risk of this happening to our children, our fucking children. Our country is run by psychopaths and 40% of the country keeps them in power. It’s fucking disgusting.

    102. Just got up to go to work and it’s a struggle. My heart is so heavy with its share of out country’s collective grief. What do I say to my community this time? How do I assuage and yet not further traumatize? We already had a building-wide (3 schools share my building) lockdown drill scheduled for tomorrow. Better to have it or postpone it? The weight of these events is just suffocating, paralyzing. The Sandy Hook massacre took a toll on me as a parent and educator that is hard to put into words. Every recurrence is a painful reminder of how much ignorance and meanness is deeply woven into our country’s fabric. The older I get, the more it hurts, the harder it is to have hope that schools will ever be considered a safe place for our children again. Hearing the parents of the Sandy Hook and Parkland kids pour what’s left of their hearts out while they relive their own tragedies, seeing in their faces and hearing in their words their utter despair as our leaders trample on their little one’s graves, is beyond bearable.

      I am so truly sorry to hear of your and your family’s loss, Jowles. Senseless loss of the life of any child is life’s greatest hardship. Wishing solace to you and all those who love her.

    103. Oh man, Jowles, i was really saddened to hear about your niece and i don’t even know what to say, we shouldn’t survive our younger generations, ever. My thoughts are with you and your family.

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