Knicks Morning News (2022.01.25)

  • Evan Mobley’s short memory a gift for the Cavaliers – cleveland.com
    [www.cleveland.com] — Tuesday, January 25, 2022 5:01:00 AM

    Evan Mobley’s short memory a gift for the Cavaliers  cleveland.com

  • On this day: IT goes for 38 vs. Rockets; Celtics hold Knicks to 46 points – Celtics Wire
    [celticswire.usatoday.com] — Tuesday, January 25, 2022 4:09:04 AM

    On this day: IT goes for 38 vs. Rockets; Celtics hold Knicks to 46 points  Celtics Wire

  • Kevin Love helps surging Cleveland Cavaliers clip New York Knicks – Yahoo News
    [news.yahoo.com] — Tuesday, January 25, 2022 1:00:21 AM

    Kevin Love helps surging Cleveland Cavaliers clip New York Knicks  Yahoo News

  • Cavaliers 95, Knicks 93: “I hate this team” – Posting and Toasting
    [www.postingandtoasting.com] — Tuesday, January 25, 2022 12:49:45 AM

    Cavaliers 95, Knicks 93: “I hate this team”  Posting and ToastingJulius Randle’s erratic night dooms Knicks in loss to Cavaliers  New York Post Knicks may be inconsistent, but here’s how you can profit off them  Yahoo SportsCavs Starting Lineup Against The Knicks  Sports IllustratedNew York Knicks vs Cleveland Cavaliers: Best Bets and Predictions  Daily KnicksView Full Coverage on Google News

  • As Knicks seek role for Cam Reddish, Quentin Grimes earns spot in rotation – Yahoo Sports
    [sports.yahoo.com] — Tuesday, January 25, 2022 12:46:00 AM

    As Knicks seek role for Cam Reddish, Quentin Grimes earns spot in rotation  Yahoo Sports

  • Derrick Rose back on road with Knicks as optimism for return grows – New York Post
    [nypost.com] — Tuesday, January 25, 2022 12:35:00 AM

    Derrick Rose back on road with Knicks as optimism for return grows  New York Post

  • Knicks vs. Cavaliers – Game Recap – January 24, 2022 – ESPN
    [www.espn.com] — Monday, January 24, 2022 9:52:02 PM

    Knicks vs. Cavaliers – Game Recap – January 24, 2022  ESPN

  • Cleveland 95, N.Y. Knicks 93 – CT Post
    [www.ctpost.com] — Monday, January 24, 2022 9:33:35 PM

    Cleveland 95, N.Y. Knicks 93  CT Post

  • Cavs beat Knicks 95-93 – Bleacher Report
    [bleacherreport.com] — Monday, January 24, 2022 9:14:05 PM

    Cavs beat Knicks 95-93  Bleacher Report

  • Knicks Notes: Reddish, Dolan, Randle, Robinson – hoopsrumors.com
    [www.hoopsrumors.com] — Monday, January 24, 2022 8:28:00 PM

    Knicks Notes: Reddish, Dolan, Randle, Robinson  hoopsrumors.com

  • The 3 unsung heroes of the Knicks in 2022 – ClutchPoints
    [clutchpoints.com] — Monday, January 24, 2022 7:13:02 PM

    The 3 unsung heroes of the Knicks in 2022  ClutchPoints

  • Rajon Rondo’s Official Injury Status For Knicks-Cavs Game – Sports Illustrated
    [www.si.com] — Monday, January 24, 2022 7:07:37 PM

    Rajon Rondo’s Official Injury Status For Knicks-Cavs Game  Sports Illustrated

  • New York Knicks vs Cleveland Cavaliers Jan 24, 2022 Game – Scores, Stats & Highlights – NBA.com
    [www.nba.com] — Monday, January 24, 2022 6:39:13 PM

    New York Knicks vs Cleveland Cavaliers Jan 24, 2022 Game – Scores, Stats & Highlights  NBA.com

  • Michael Beasley says Knicks hurt his feelings in free agency – New York Daily News
    [www.nydailynews.com] — Monday, January 24, 2022 6:15:00 PM

    Michael Beasley says Knicks hurt his feelings in free agency  New York Daily News

  • Padma Lakshmi Was Seen With These Two Celebrities At A Knicks Game – Mashed
    [www.mashed.com] — Monday, January 24, 2022 3:42:00 PM

    Padma Lakshmi Was Seen With These Two Celebrities At A Knicks Game  Mashed

  • Rajon Rondo’s Status For Knicks-Cavs Game – Sports Illustrated
    [www.si.com] — Monday, January 24, 2022 2:42:43 PM

    Rajon Rondo’s Status For Knicks-Cavs Game  Sports Illustrated

  • Cox sentimental about Knicks Go’s final work – Daily Racing Form
    [www.drf.com] — Monday, January 24, 2022 12:59:21 PM

    Cox sentimental about Knicks Go’s final work  Daily Racing Form

  • Westchester Knicks trounced by Maine Celtics, 126-99 – Posting and Toasting
    [www.postingandtoasting.com] — Monday, January 24, 2022 10:32:30 AM

    Westchester Knicks trounced by Maine Celtics, 126-99  Posting and Toasting

  • New York Knicks: Three Trade Ideas – Last Word on Baseball
    [lastwordonsports.com] — Monday, January 24, 2022 10:30:46 AM

    New York Knicks: Three Trade Ideas  Last Word on Baseball

  • Cam Reddish Receives Diminished Role with New York Knicks – Sports Illustrated
    [www.si.com] — Monday, January 24, 2022 10:07:28 AM

    Cam Reddish Receives Diminished Role with New York Knicks  Sports Illustrated

  • Here’s What Julius Randle Said After The Knicks Beat The Clippers – Sports Illustrated
    [www.si.com] — Monday, January 24, 2022 8:21:06 AM

    Here’s What Julius Randle Said After The Knicks Beat The Clippers  Sports Illustrated

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    131 thoughts to “Knicks Morning News (2022.01.25)”

    1. Fun loss, they fought, they (mostly) defended and our top picks in the last three drafts were our best players.

      Interesting newsletter from Macri about Randle and Thibs and interesting piece on the Athletic from Katz about our snail-like pace and it’s negative impact on our games (sorry, can’t add snippets right now, I’ll do it later).

      I’m curious to watch how long the Reddish-drama will go on and if there will be consequences.

    2. It’s just ridiculous that Thibodeau would single out RJ for criticism on that last three, when Randle walked the ball up and dilly-dallied and, after standing in place and dribbling and doing exactly nothing productive, gave it to RJ with 5 and change on the shot clock — in the exact same place where he could have given it to him with 13 or 14 on the shot clock.

    3. The look for the RJ 3P was a good look. If he wants to be “the man”, he must make those shots. But hey, now he gets to practice it during game time with the game on the line, which is much better than the previous Randle iso sh*t. Baby steps.

    4. It did have shades of “why did Beno pass him the ball.” Thanks to Randle’s dalliance, the entire Cavs defense was set. Had Barrett driven, he would would have had to beat two defenders (one being Mobley) perfectly positioned to guard against a drive.

      I’m pretty sure Rondo goaded Randle and Barrett into settling for that long jumper by doubling Randle. Sure it was a clean look but it was deep. That shot is gonna miss 70% of the time.

      The subject of the Katz article Max mentioned is that play and how emblematic it is our offense. Possessions where Alec Burks plays PG take an average of 19 seconds, dead last in the league. Kemba isn’t faring much better.

      The play before, RJ grabbed the rebound and attacked. The ball should always be in his hands for these situations. At least he puts pressure on the defense.

    5. Here’s the Athletic piece Max mentioned. A striking snippet:

      Get this: The Knicks average 19.4 seconds on possessions that Burks brings the ball up, which ranks dead last among the 88 players who have initiated at least 500 possessions this season, according to information compiled by Second Spectrum and supplied to The Athletic. Walker, meanwhile, is second to last among those 88.

      Either Walker or Burks has started at point guard for 44 of the Knicks’ 48 games this season.

      This is good empirical support for my strongest opinion about the starters, which is that they are fucking boring to watch.

      Thibs’ comment about RJ wasn’t scathing by any means, but you can’t help but notice he hasn’t said anything nearly as critical of Randle all season. It’s quite possible that’s not a bad thing, part of being a coach is knowing which players respond well to that kind of public criticism and which ones don’t.

      We can safely say whatever the current “approach” is with Randle is not working though. Maybe it would be even worse if Thibs were to make these kinds of light public criticisms of him, I don’t know. Either way, if Thibs can’t get through to Randle at all it makes the argument that Thibs’ benefits outweigh his…eccentricities a lot more specious. It’s also not a great sign regarding the guy we have signed for 4 more seasons after this one.

    6. Hubert: The play before, RJ grabbed the rebound and attacked. The ball should always be in his hands for these situations. At least he’s decisive.

      You’re right, but as i said baby steps. This is an improvement on those Randle iso fadeaway midrange jumpers that were driving us all nuts.

    7. “Play the kids” should not be synonymous with tanking any more. Randle sucks. Evan Fournier is fungible. I’d like to see some extended runs with Deuce, RJ, Cam, Obi, and Mitch playing together, and Grimes spelling either of the wings.

    8. It is also becoming clear, as someone pointed out last night, that playing IQ at pg is ruining him. Even if Deuce cannot shoot, which has not been established definitively, it seems grossly negligent* to not give him a chance. Given the abundance of wings, be interesting to see if Leon deals one or more.
      * To Thibs’s credit, he did let Grimes finish.

    9. Hubert:
      “Play the kids” should not be synonymous with tanking any more. Randle sucks. Evan Fournier is fungible. I’d like to see some extended runs with Deuce, RJ, Cam, Obi, and Mitch playing together, and Grimes spelling either of the wings.

      Yes but start Grimes and bring Cam off the bench

    10. Hubert:
      “Play the kids” should not be synonymous with tanking any more. Randle sucks. Evan Fournier is fungible. I’d like to see some extended runs with Deuce, RJ, Cam, Obi, and Mitch playing together, and Grimes spelling either of the wings.

      i know hes obviously not a kid but i really like the active-ness that Noel plays with when hes playing with like-minded active players… hes was solid last night with that second unit… how he shows and gets back to his man, his terrible hands on offense are a godsend on defense… anyways…

    11. Bo Nateman:
      It is also becoming clear, as someone pointed out last night, that playing IQ at pg is ruining him. Even if Deuce cannot shoot, which has not been established definitively, it seems grossly negligent* to not give him a chance. Given the abundance of wings, be interesting to see if Leon deals one or more.
      * To Thibs’s credit, he did let Grimes finish.

      IQ isnt half the player he should be when he has to play this slow, probing (which hes not great at) game … it is ruining his effectiveness for sure

    12. It is a credit to Leon Rose that he’s put together enough kids to form a credible team. Let’s pivot to this by the start of next year:

      1 Rokas, Deuce
      2 Barrett, Quickley
      3 Reddish, Grimes
      4 Toppin
      5 Mitch, Sims

      Insert another lottery pick somewhere, too. Unleash Obi. Maybe keep Rose and Noel around to support them.

    13. Thibs prefers boring. He prefers boring and slow and low-risk/low-ceiling and then, he thinks, if things stay in that boring-ass lane, he can get his team to beat you with paint defense and elbow grease. Which is why he’ll always prefer the plain vanilla, slow-paced veteran to a young guy, no matter what kind of modern data you throw at him.

      He’s obviously completely full of shit and essentially a fossil at this point.

    14. For all its worth we’re a top 10 defense again… yay?

      If Rose was healthy, we’d have a solid team. Unfortunately that won’t happen often enough to matter. We need some damn PGs.

    15. RJ has a .547 TS% since Randle first missed a game for Covid. He’s shot 65.5% from the FTline over that span.

      It’d be so easy for him to get up to league average efficiency if he could just hit his FTs.

    16. It is also becoming clear, as someone pointed out last night, that playing IQ at pg is ruining him.

      Personally I think it’s a good thing long-term to give IQ reps at PG because it’s the position at which he potentially has starter upside and it’s worth some growing pains now to see if he can tap into that. Obviously a lot of the concerns about him long-term have come to the forefront this year with a lot of the cheap FTs disappearing and his inability to get much of anything going inside the arc but his passing is probably the one area where he really has made progress so I can’t call it a complete loss.

    17. i was excited about grimes’ defense yesterday. maybe it’s just game to game variance but he seemed to bring all of his usually chihuahua energy but without sticking his hands in the cookie jar or getting his feet tangled as often

    18. i do not believe in pg iq. he just lacks so many of the core traits that make a good pg — nearly all of them in fact. he seems like a tweener guard through and through

    19. I don’t like the idea of putting all the blame on Burks and Kemba for possessions going so late into the clock. A lot of the time when Randle touches the ball, he’s going to hold it, survey the situation, and put it on the floor. He slows down the possessions and doesn’t move the ball. That’s part of why I am always whining.

      When was the last time you saw Randle get the ball, make a quick decision, and move the ball?

      We don’t have a PG. We all know that’s a major part of the problem. But Randle is a ball stopper in the Melo mode – except Melo could overcome some of the damage he inflicted on ball movement because he was way more skilled at making the difficult shots he created for himself later in the clock.

      If you don’t have a true PG, you can still play effective basketball. We’ve occasionally seen that with other teams. But it’s absolutely necessary for there to be a lot of ball and player movement and it helps if you play with pace. You can’t hold the ball, dribble the ball, and then let role players play ISO ball.

      Randle has to go!

    20. I like Quick as a 6th man scorer off the bench. He has that streaky hotness that can change the momentum of a game at times. He’s actually more than that because his defense is improving. But he’s not a PG. I think he’ll probably be more efficient when Rose is back and he’s playing off the ball more again.

    21. Yeah in retrospect, maybe going after Van Vleet was the exact right thing to do. I really don’t understand why we didn’t even try.

    22. Hubert:
      It is a credit to Leon Rose that he’s put together enough kids to form a credible team. Let’s pivot to this by the start of next year:

      1 Rokas, Deuce
      2 Barrett, Quickley
      3 Reddish, Grimes
      4 Toppin
      5 Mitch, Sims

      Insert another lottery pick somewhere, too. Unleash Obi. Maybe keep Rose and Noel around to support them.

      We have some good young talent that’s going to get better and we still have an extra 1st rounder to do something with. I don’t mind veterans. I like having some of them around as part of being competitive and developing young players as long as the contracts are short and fair.

      I think our biggest problems right now are Randle and Fournier.

      Fournier is a good player. He’s almost certainly better than he’s showing in this busted offense. But I don’t think he’s good enough to commit to long term the way we did. He doesn’t do enough besides score and he’s not a good enough scorer to be just that. Grimes is probably going to be better than him all around, possibly soon.

      You can’t be more patient than I’ve been with Randle, but this year I finally realized he’s hopeless. imo we can’t get rid of him fast enough. His best use is probably trying to dominate second string players off the bench. I don’t want run the offense through him. I don’t want him being a high usage scorer in the starting lineup. I barely want him touching the ball. He clearly has some very good skills, but he uses them as badly as you can possibly can.

    23. There was a possession near the end, maybe 2-3 possessions before RJ’s shot, where Randle was dribbling at the top, then picked up his dribble, then had throw a tough pass to I think Noel 30 feet from the basket, and then ran to collect the ball. He then had like 8 seconds to do something. It’s just kind of maddening how many possessions are like that if he doesn’t commit a stupid turnover first.

      Randle is a fine player but will never be the #1 player on a very good team. And I don’t see how he can be a #2 with how much of the ball he needs.

      RJ is a third year player. He’s showing flashes but the overall picture is pretty grim. His TS% should be above league average at this point.

      I am all for playing the kids. I think the reality is that if we went with the youth movement next year we would win 25 games but I’d be fine with that.

    24. A lot of people annoyed with Randle’s stupid play overlooking the fact that Cam Reddish plays basketball like a fucking idiot.

    25. It is extremely annoying watching Randle leisurely jog the ball up the court tho, especially late game.

    26. Two things that should be utterly and completely deleted from the Knicks Playbook:

      1. Julius Randle brings the ball upcourt.

      2. Person bringing the ball upcourt hands it off to Julius Randle above the 3-point line.

      The second is even more egregious, as what happens is a solid 10 seconds of mulling, followed by 5 seconds of pounding the ball, followed by a bad shot, an errant jump pass/turnover, or a pass with less than 5 seconds left to a teammate who has to heave a terrible shot. Or a shot clock violation.

      We’d probably score 5-10 points more a game if they just wiped out those two plays. Addition by subtraction.

    27. DRed
      January 25, 2022 at 11:30 am
      A lot of people annoyed with Randle’s stupid play overlooking the fact that Cam Reddish plays basketball like a fucking idiot.

      But he’s a new, young, shiny fucking idiot who hasn’t gotten his idiot all over the carpet yet. Also, he’s not about to cost $30M a year and Thibs can laugh his ass off when he demands the ball at the end of the game.

      I actually think it’s perfectly fine to keep Cam out of the rotation until he shows better decision making in practice. I’d prefer to yank him when he does something dumb.

      It’s just that (1) we’re frustrated we gave up anything for him, incinerated or not, (2) the “we have a rotation comment” is so emblematic of bad Thibs tendencies on par with Woodson’s “the East is BIG”, and (3) the clock is ticking on his contract.

    28. ptmilo:
      i do not believe in pg iq.he just lacks so many of the core traits that make a good pg — nearly all of them in fact.he seems like a tweener guard through and through

      IQ needs to play mostly off the ball. He really has no idea how to play the PG position. Chicken without a head comes to mind. It’s actually hurting the parts of his game that he’s good at.

    29. I’ve been as much a Randle defender as anyone on this board, but I will admit I’m getting really sick of those possessions where he supposedly has a “mismatch” and backs his defender down until there’s like 5 seconds left on the shot clock. Have you noticed teams a lot of times don’t bother to double team him? They’ll live with one of his fadeaway 20 footers or him bullying his way to the basket. And when they do double him, it’s because they know they can force a turnover.

      Between bogging down the offense and his shitty attitude lately, I’m pretty much done with the guy. Unfortunately, I don’t think we’re gonna get much for him as other GM’s aren’t blind.

    30. Randle is a hard working man and has added another wrinkle to his game. Now he stops dribbling and leaves his feet WITHOUT A CLEAR PLAN of what to do, as if the fact that he has jumped into the air will somehow present a play that wasn’t there before it.

    31. I think its’ worth giving IQ a shot at PG. Such transitions rarely work, but we don’t have a PG and I don’t think those transitions do any lasting harm. He’s shooting poorly because it’s difficult to focus on 4 players and the basket rather than just the basket. Move him back to SG & he’ll regain his basket-only focus.

      They’ll live with one of his fadeaway 20 footers or him bullying his way to the basket. And when they do double him, it’s because they know they can force a turnover.

      It’s the anti-Sophie’s choice where both options are so enticing to opposing coaches they’re transfixed with indecision.

    32. ptmilo:
      i do not believe in pg iq.he just lacks so many of the core traits that make a good pg — nearly all of them in fact.he seems like a tweener guard through and through

      To be clear I don’t really believe in PG IQ either. I just think there’s a lot worse things than asking a young player on a pretty bad team to do some things that are a bit outside of his projected comfort zone in the hopes that it turns out he rises to the challenge. In fact I’d like to see us doing more of that, not less.

    33. ptmilo: i do not believe in pg iq.he just lacks so many of the core traits that make a good pg — nearly all of them in fact.he seems like a tweener guard through and through

      I feel this way too. And that might make him expendable. He has value and for the future RJ will get back to SG, with Grimes as the backup, thus we can use Quick to “win trades”.
      I’d add him to the Brunson trade: Mitch + Quick + DAL 2023 pick for Brunson + Moses Brown.
      It’s a more attractive trade for the Mavs, or still doesn’t cut it?

    34. We are 28th in the NBA in 2pt%. Playing Cam-who is shooting a robust 43% from inside the arc in his NBA career-is probably not going to help one of the biggest problems with our offense. We don’t score in transition, we run a lot of pick and roll and aside from Mitch and Kemba and surprisingly Evan we don’t have anyone who is good at scoring in the PnR. It’s a slow, inefficient offense.

    35. @Cyber, unfortunately I don’t think the Mavs are moving Brunson for anything short of a superstar. He fits their young KP/Luka core, and I could see them upsetting teams in the playoffs and making a deep run (Mr. November’s health pending).

      Maybe RJ and a couple 1sts for Brunson, but then we don’t want to make that trade.

    36. i do not believe in pg iq.he just lacks so many of the core traits that make a good pg — nearly all of them in fact.he seems like a tweener guard through and through

      I haven’t watched as much basketball as in years past, but every time a see Quickley try to work a PnR, it looks like a mid-tier D1 team’s PG trying to create dribble penetration and just passing out of it to a teammate on the wing.

    37. There’s not a strong case for playing Cam on the merits. He’d probably be better than Randle because he’s an NBA basketball player in 2022 but that’s about it and there are a million reasons that won’t, and probably shouldn’t, happen.

      The case for playing him is we traded 4 years of [insert 2021 pick who went 19th or later e.g. Ayo Dosunmu and his .629 TS%] for 1.5 years of him. The front office is going to have to either make a trade that clears up the rotation or just mandate Thibs play him over someone probably better than him.

      There’s nothing about any of this that’s particularly ideal.

    38. DRed
      January 25, 2022 at 12:38 pm
      We are 28th in the NBA in 2pt%. Playing Cam-who is shooting a robust 43% from inside the arc in his NBA career-is probably not going to help one of the biggest problems with our offense. We don’t score in transition, we run a lot of pick and roll and aside from Mitch and Kemba and surprisingly Evan we don’t have anyone who is good at scoring in the PnR. It’s a slow, inefficient offense.

      Both Fournier & Kemba are having near career worsts within 3ft of the basket, both getting there and finishing. Burks and RJ also have well-documented struggles at the rim. Fournier gets there only 10% (!!) of the time.

      Part of me wonders if that’s Thibs’s offensive scheme, or Mitch & Randle clogging the paint. But I watch Kemba & Fournier and they just both look cooked. Thibs scheme, Taj, & Obi didn’t slow Rose down at all when he was healthy either.

    39. We’re ruining Quickley as a prospect, trying to jam a square peg into a round hole with him. He’s not a PG, he is not going to be a PG, and he’s trying to do that instead of just doing things he can actually do. The lack of competent PG play has a cascade effect on the whole team and it might have the extra side effect of ruining one of our better prospects. The way Thibs is “developing” Quickley and Toppin is pretty inexcusable.

      The incineration trade looks worse by the day. Horrible trade.

    40. I recall that the most strenuous defense of Leon trading the 19th pick was that we’d have been using it on “some guy who wouldn’t play anyway.” #irony

    41. It’s interesting to contrast what Steve Nash, who has the pressure of chasing a CHP, is doing with his rooks and what Thibs is not. Nash has managed to give Thomas, Edwards, Duke Jr., and Sharpe non-garbage time run without seemingly hurting the Net’s ongoing record and finding out what he has for the playoffs. It seems this approach might be even more appropriate for the Knicks.

    42. thenoblefacehumper: There’s nothing about any of this that’s particularly ideal.

      It’s been approaching ideal for Knox, who got 11 minutes of burn in the last Atlanta game he wouldn’t have gotten if he’d stayed glued to the Knicks bench.

    43. If Knox develops into a useful player for Atlanta and we just keep Reddish glued to the bench until he eventually leaves after next season we will have reached peak Knicks, it would be a new low even for this god forsaken franchise.

    44. JK47:
      We’re ruining Quickley as a prospect, trying to jam a square peg into a round hole with him. He’s not a PG, he is not going to be a PG, and he’s trying to do that instead of just doing things he can actually do. The lack of competent PG play has a cascade effect on the whole team and it might have the extra side effect of ruining one of our better prospects. The way Thibs is “developing” Quickley and Toppin is pretty inexcusable.

      The incineration trade looks worse by the day. Horrible trade.

      I’m starting to wonder now whether the idea of offering 19 for Reddish was kicked around at the draft and the faction that wanted to do it let Thibs talk them out of it. Or the idea was proposed by said faction to Leon and Thibs voted no and Leon decided to go with Thibs. And now that the season isn’t going very well and Reddish is still out there, it was revisited and Leon decided to pull the trigger this time, but Thibs is still a no.

    45. I’m rooting for the FO to trade Cam again before the deadline just to watch the ensuing chaos.

    46. IQ was prolly my favorite player last year, so I’m torn. I do want him to become a slashing PG without sacrificing his scoring, and I applaud Thibs for giving him the chance. I just don’t know how much longer I can watch him fail. To his credit, Quickly has taken to the challenge, improved his handle, improved his defense, and every so often makes a slick pass that makes me think, “maybe?” But his ceiling seems very low as a PG compared to him becoming a sixth man or even starting SG who regularly pours in 15 points and is a key problem for the other team at the buzzer. Right now Quick looks joyless out there and (worst of all) ordinary. Never thought I’d see that.

    47. these next 2 weeks should be interesting…next ten games…best case scenario is likley 3-7…so we’ll be 6 under 500 by the trade deadline…which…assuming the 10th seed is going to be a 500 team…would put us still nipping at the heels of say wash/atl…but then the next 10 games after that…we might win 2 of those so then we’re cooked, i.e., out of contention ….seems like we should go straight to asset accumulation at the deadline if anybody at the helm is competent/on team realist …however, not sure this roster has much value other than burks or maybe walker…if no moves, best case is with the white flag raised halfway through the 2nd nasty road trip…thibs has to give a looksy to some different guys …but likley will run rose and his freshly healed ankle for 40 min pg so he can beef up his win total..

    48. Obi should play more at Randle’s expense, but otherwise I think Thibs has generally played the younger guys enough. IQ is 6th on the team in minutes. Grimes is getting real minutes. Knox didn’t play but Knox sucks. I guess you could want to see more McBride, but he’s been terrible in his limited minutes so I can also see an argument for letting him play more in the G league

    49. Darius Garland played 2 years and 3500 minutes of below replacement-level basketball before busting out this year.

    50. Early Bird:
      I’m rooting for the FO to trade Cam again before the deadline just to watch the ensuing chaos.

      That might be the plan. Someone must definitely be moved, whether it’s Cam or whoever he’s replacing.

    51. Not Knicks related, but I just saw where the Rockets were demanding a 1st to send John Wall to the Lakers. But..wouldn’t a swap of Russ for Wall be perfect for those 2 teams as constructed? Houston also needs to move off of Kevin Porter. Silas shouldn’t be forced to deal with him and Christian Wood lol. Send Porter somewhere like Philly or to Phoenix for Elfrid lol

    52. It is pretty funny that Harden came to Brooklyn to be the third member in a Big Three and he’s right back to being the lone star on the team (in home games). I can see that being annoying to him.

    53. Z-man: Darius Garland played 2 years and 3500 minutes of below replacement-level basketball before busting out this year.

      Exactly. I don’t think a place in the 9th/10th game should prevent us from giving minutes to young players that might breakout like Garland is doing.

    54. Quickley’s problem is that he doesn’t create separation. He doesn’t have a first step and isn’t particularly crafty. He’s a jump shooter who takes advantage of mismatches but can’t create them.

      That’s why he can’t be a PG. All of his probing goes nowhere if the defense is set. He’s got pretty good passing vision but can’t get teammates open by forcing defensive rotations.

      Rose and RJ are the only guys we have who collapse a defense. And RJ gets tunnel vision so he can’t be the primary playmaker.

    55. I don’t think it is fair to judge guys on this, but IQ also looks miserable out there playing the point while he looked like he was having a blast last season.

    56. I agree with all the Quickley takes, with the exception that he’s not a point guard — yet. Apply Z-man’s Darrius Garland take to this. IQ has significantly improved on various point guard skills in just his year 2 as has been noted, so there’s no real reason to think he can’t continue to improve.

      I’d rather see him in a bench shooter role, but if the alternative is Burks or (god forbid) Randle, let him develop. People are crying to ‘develop’ the kids, but sometimes that’s painful, as humans tend to suck before they get good at something. Either let them develop (suck) or stop asking for that.

      Of course we could play the kid who plays ferocious D and blew up the Summer and G leagues, but nah.

    57. DRed:
      A lot of people annoyed with Randle’s stupid play overlooking the fact that Cam Reddish plays basketball like a fucking idiot.

      lmao

      That’s an assertion. I have 2 1/2 years of solid evidence when it comes to Randle. Plus Reddish is young. Let’s give him more than 5 minutes. :-)

    58. cybersoze: If he wants to go back to Texas, Mavs can send the unicorn back to NY in exchange for Harden. Would Strat root for the Nets then? LOL

      No.

      I tend to root for teams other than the Knicks when they have a lot of ex Knicks players (I followed the Nuggets closely for awhile after the Melo trade too), but to get me to root for the Nets the deal would have to include Frank. :-)

    59. d-mar: I know Harden would be the best player the Knicks have had since…Clyde?

      But I would find it really hard to root for that fucking guy

      He’s also 32 (33 this summer), doesn’t take good care of himself, and is in the middle of his worst shooting year since he was a rookie. Also, his BPM, VORP, WS, and WS/48 have dropped each year since 2018-19. He’s a good guy for a great or nearly great team to put them over the top, probably much less so for a team struggling to make the play-in game.

    60. ***Darius Garland played 2 years and 3500 minutes of below replacement-level basketball before busting out this year.***

      Basing one’s hope for success on an outlier can be fun, but it can also lead to a lot of pain.

    61. People are crying to ‘develop’ the kids

      Not calling out anyone in particular with this observation but I think there is often a tendency to want the young kids to play and develop but then to turn around and think they’re trash if they don’t immediately become good. Quickly is a second year player, drafted late in the first round, being asked to play point guard, a position he isn’t naturally suited for (and also the most difficult position to learn in the NBA). And yet on this very thread people are saying he is expendable. I’m not saying we should keep him at all costs but it is weird that people want to rebuild with youth but then turn around and want to trade any player that isn’t Zion or second year Lebron.

      I mean, just look at The CAVS! If I had the time, I could go back through threads from last year or two years ago where people would comment about the Cavs being “the worst roster in the league” or “a joke.” And now look at them. People on this blog are oohing and awwing over how great their roster is and how they’re “set up” for the future and why can’t we be like that? It’s not like they grabbed a tone of new players. They just made their picks and allowed them to suck for a few years and now some of them are taking that leap and they’re looking good.

      But people want to trade RJ, not resign Mitch, trade Quick, etc. IT seems on this blog a player gets a pass their rookie year and after that, the clock is ticking on them to immediately turn into a star or their worthless.

    62. Darius Garland looked pretty good last year. If you look at any one of his stats you’ll see a clear progression.

      eFG%: 47.6 > 51.7 > 54.1
      AST/36: 4.5 > 6.6 > 8.5

      It looks like that across the board for him.

    63. The front office is going to have to either make a trade that clears up the rotation or just mandate Thibs play him over someone probably better than him.

      Remember, the FO’s goal is to improve the team each year, win as many games as they can, and make the playoffs.

      From their perspective, they have to know how good Cam is in this group soon. Then they can contemplate whether they should trade Burks for a pick or possibly even Fournier. They aren’t going to trade current rotation players and take a step backwards just to play Cam. But they might consider it if they feel Cam brings enough to the table now and in the future including greater versatility in how they can use other players like Grimes more.

      Thibs is so obsessed with winning, I can see him wanting to ease Cam in as he shows he’s more comfortable with the schemes. But he has to play him enough before the trade deadline to give the FO the information it needs to consider other moves. If he doesn’t do that, he’s being a stubborn a$$ like D’Antoni was at times.

    64. And yet on this very thread people are saying he is expendable.

      No one did that. One person floated the idea of trading him for a very good player in Brunson. You can agree or disagree that we should do that if given the opportunity, but it’s hardly tantamount to saying he’s expendable.

      I mean, just look at The CAVS! If I had the time, I could go back through threads from last year or two years ago where people would comment about the Cavs being “the worst roster in the league” or “a joke.”

      Well, I think peoples’ opinions of the Cavs’ roster strongly account for the 20 year-old anchoring the league’s 3rd ranked defense. So it wouldn’t be surprising if those opinions are a lot different than they were a year ago. High lottery picks have a way of doing that!

      But people want to trade RJ, not resign Mitch, trade Quick, etc. IT seems on this blog a player gets a pass their rookie year and after that, the clock is ticking on them to immediately turn into a star or their worthless.

      These are all real decisions the New York Knicks will have to make, so we’re discussing them. For example it’s fine to think we shouldn’t trade RJ, but that requires thinking we should re-sign him, and then the question is to what contract? Do you really think there’s some clear cut answer to these series of questions that you have to be a hater to not see?

    65. From their perspective, they have to know how good Cam is in this group soon. Then they can contemplate whether they should trade Burks for a pick or possibly even Fournier. They aren’t going to trade current rotation players and take a step backwards just to play Cam. But they might consider it if they feel Cam brings enough to the table now and in the future including greater versatility in how they can use other players like Grimes more.

      I’m not really sure what you’re saying. Do you think they’ll trade players who have been better than Reddish, both this year and historically, to open up minutes for him or not?

    66. High lottery picks have a way of doing that!

      The Cavs are an interesting study in the importance of getting into the top five in the draft. You might have shitty drafts where Isaac Okoro is the best you end up with, but it’s still a heck of a lot better, on average, than the back half of the top ten.

    67. swiftandabundant: Not calling out anyone in particular with this observation but I think there is often a tendency to want the young kids to play and develop but then to turn around and think they’re trash if they don’t immediately become good.

      Why can’t I want the kids to play and develop but also be willing to trade them in the right deal? It’s not like any of them have shown future superstar/MVP caliber potential.

    68. I’m procrastinating from work (where I’m reviewing W. Kamau Bell’s excellent Bill Cosby docu-series) by having a pro-tanking meltdown on Twitter.

      I’ve been on team optimist and team Thibs for a long time, but I’m just over this incarnation of the team. Trade whatever vets you can, play the kids as much as you can, and accrue more ping pong balls. This current approach ain’t it.

    69. Alan: I’m procrastinating from work (where I’m reviewing W. Kamau Bell’s excellent Bill Cosby docu-series) by having a pro-tanking meltdown on Twitter.

      I’m reading the “twitter war”. Go Alan! :)

    70. Keep repeating the top five bit! It’s something that I think people always misunderstand. It’s not just about winning the top pick, it’s getting into the top five.

    71. swiftandabundant: Not calling out anyone in particular with this observation but I think there is often a tendency to want the young kids to play and develop but then to turn around and think they’re trash if they don’t immediately become good.

      You prolly don’t mean me, but, for the record, I think IQ is really struggling at PG but I don’t want to trade him — at all. I’m actually impressed Thibs is giving him such a long time to learn the position. I only worry IQ will never get there, so these minutes will be at the expense of him learning to hit logo threes at will off the ball. All will be revealed it seems, and I wouldn’t abandon the experiment just yet. More to the point, I wish the same answers could be “revealed” for Obi, Deuce, Grimes, and Jericho, just like I wish Mitch was forced to roll more with an adequate PG, and so on.

      (As I’ve whined before) For this entire season, the only reason to play Kemba, Burks, and even DRose is to slot our kids in the right places next to them and simulate what we want those kids to do best. If IQ’s best use is penetrating and dishing to Burks for an open three, so be it. Do it again and again even when it fails. Otherwise, Burks (or Kemba or DRose) should be penetrating and dishing to IQ for that same three. Likewise, if IQ can learn to run a strong pick and roll with Mitch, great. If not, Kemba or Burks or DRose should be running that play every other time down the floor with Mitch.

      As someone else said (way) above, there is absolutely no reason to “practice” Julius bringing the ball up the court — ever. There is absolutely no reason to “practice” IQ dribbling up the court then handing off to Julius at the top of the arc. Every single possession like this is a waste of everyone’s time. For Thibs not to see that is malpractice.

    72. I loved how Grimes shut down Garland last night and was lights out shooting. We picked a winner.

    73. thenoblefacehumper: I’m not really sure what you’re saying. Do you think they’ll trade players who have been better than Reddish, both this year and historically, to open up minutes for him or not?

      I think they will want to see Cam play in NY, for this coach, with these teammates, in this offense, in this defense for enough minutes to evaluate him better before making a decision on trading someone else at the deadline. I don’t think they are going to evaluate him just off his prior stats in ATL. I don’t think they are going to trade Burks for a pick if we are still in the playoff hunt and they think it may cost us wins down the stretch. If Cam comes in and looks good enough to replace Burks, then you can move move Burks, maybe gain a pick, and give Cam those minutes.

    74. Grimes is good, and Thibs’ willingness to play him is another reminder that even our resident Grumpy Old Man doesn’t completely hate kids.

      This will never happen, and it would probably just keep piling up the losses, but in a lost season, I wouldn’t at all mind seeing this rotation for the rest of the year once everyone is healthy:

      PG: Deuce/Rose (with a smattering of IQ, especially before Rose is back)
      SG: Barrett/IQ
      SF: Grimes/Reddish (or vice versa)
      PF: Obi/Taj
      C: Mitch or Noel (but not both)/Sims

      That is not a good team by any means, but it would be more enjoyable to watch than whatever the hell we’re currently doing.

    75. Alan:
      Grimes is good, and Thibs’ willingness to play him is another reminder that even our resident Grumpy Old Man doesn’t completely hate kids.

      This will never happen, and it would probably just keep piling up the losses, but in a lost season, I wouldn’t at all mind seeing this rotation for the rest of the year once everyone is healthy:

      PG: Deuce/Rose (with a smattering of IQ, especially before Rose is back)
      SG: Barrett/IQ
      SF: Grimes/Reddish (or vice versa)
      PF: Obi/Taj
      C: Mitch or Noel (but not both)/Sims

      That is not a good team by any means, but it would be more enjoyable to watch than whatever the hell we’re currently doing.

      does above assume Randle has been vaporized by a ray gun and/or traded for future considerations?

      I am pretty much done with Taj…give him the Herb Williams seat on the bench at this point…

    76. Grimes has been playing really well, and we should be pretty happy about him. By my count he’s about #5 or #6 overall in BPM among rookies (behind Mobley, Sengun, Yurtseven, Barnes, and ahead of Herbert Jones), and the only non- big on the list. He might be a genuine hit on the part of our FO. The defense looks more than notional and the shot seems sustainable, and he’s doing this while shooting pretty poorly from inside the arc. There’s only going up from here, and currently he’s a perfectly cromulent bench wing, which is pretty good for a #25 pick. Perhaps our FO should trust themselves more in the draft than going after the Cam Reddishes of the world!

    77. Alan:

      PG: Deuce/Rose (with a smattering of IQ, especially before Rose is back)
      SG: Barrett/IQ
      SF: Grimes/Reddish (or vice versa)
      PF: Obi/Samanic
      C: Mitch or Noel (but not both)/Sims

      That is not a good team by any means, but it would be more enjoyable to watch than whatever the hell we’re currently doing.

      I changed the backup power forward for you. You’re welcome, Alan.

    78. Our recent draft history makes me ok with wherever we end up draft position wise. Ofc you want to be as high as possible but if we win on the back of guys like RJ and Grimes playing well cant be mad.

    79. Brian’s making a good point about Cleveland. They picked 8th, 5th, 5th, and 4th during a 4 year stretch. During that same stretch we tried to make the playoffs in 3 of the 4 seasons and ended up picking 9th, 3rd, 8th, and 19th.

      They got Sexton, Garland, Okoro, and Mobley. They whiffed on 2 out of the 4, but the 2 hits are a franchise-changing pair. And frankly, the two whiffs might be better than anyone we got.

    80. I changed the backup power forward for you. You’re welcome, Alan.

      Dammit, I keep forgetting about New Luka! Abso-smurf-ley!

    81. does above assume Randle has been vaporized by a ray gun and/or traded for future considerations?

      The above assumes I don’t care. It’s my fantasy, and in that fantasy, Randle is either traded or sent home to enjoy time with his wife and kids until we can find them all a new home in the offseason.

    82. Alan:
      Grimes is good, and Thibs’ willingness to play him is another reminder that even our resident Grumpy Old Man doesn’t completely hate kids.

      This will never happen, and it would probably just keep piling up the losses, but in a lost season, I wouldn’t at all mind seeing this rotation for the rest of the year once everyone is healthy:

      PG: Deuce/Rose (with a smattering of IQ, especially before Rose is back)
      SG: Barrett/IQ
      SF: Grimes/Reddish (or vice versa)
      PF: Obi/Taj
      C: Mitch or Noel (but not both)/Sims

      That is not a good team by any means, but it would be more enjoyable to watch than whatever the hell we’re currently doing.

      Thibs likes Grimes because he’s low-risk/low-ceiling. He’s basically Landry Fields 2.0, but even less adroit off the dribble and penetration. Nothing wrong with that, but you ain’t getting a superstar there. He’s safe. That’s why Thibs plays him.

    83. Brian’s making a good point about Cleveland. They picked 8th, 5th, 5th, and 4th during a 4 year stretch. During that same stretch we tried to make the playoffs in 3 of the 4 seasons and ended up picking 9th, 3rd, 8th, and 19th.

      Don’t forget they also dealt George Hill for a draft pick and then dealt that draft pick for Jarrett Allen. Dealing off vets who aren’t helping you be a contender is typically a good idea. Like the Marcus Morris trade that got the Knicks Quickley.

    84. And before the recent run, the Cavs got to pick LeBron James and Kyrie Irving and then had another #1 and then yet another #1. They’ve been extraordinarily lucky; the Knicks have been very unlucky.

    85. The Cavs have had lottery luck, for sure. But they have also been smart: they never once tried to travel the middle path.

      The Knicks, frankly, have not been unlucky at all. We’ve consistently gotten exactly what we deserved for the choices we made.

      I was too drunk to argue coherently (or respectfully) the other night, but this is what you get when you think making the playoffs is a worthy goal.

      We have set out to make the playoffs in 20 of the last 21 seasons! That’s insane!!! Most teams in the bottom of the standings with us are there on purpose.

      And he we are again, squeaking out wins bc we hired a win now coach who runs his best players into the ground for the pursuit of a 10th seed.

      We’re not unlucky. We’re dumb. And the worst thing is people endorse this shit.

    86. E, all merc’d out:
      And before the recent run, the Cavs got to pick LeBron James and Kyrie Irving and then had another #1 and then yet another #1.They’ve been extraordinarily lucky; the Knicks have been very unlucky.

      Luck can be a huge factor, but we also made some questionable decisions that set us back.

      We picked 3rd and 4th in recent years after dropping down in the lottery both times.

      KP is gone and we got trash for him. Let’s hope Cam turns into something.

      There was immediate agreement we blew the Knox pick by passing on Mikal Bridges (which looks worse with each passing year because Miles has also become a good player)

      We blew the Frank pick because we allowed Phil to take someone that fit perfectly into his long term vision of a 2 guard front with Frank behind a veteran 3&D free agent guard (we put Hardaway into that spot instead). Then we fired him. If we were going to fire him, why did he make that pick? Love him or hate him, Frank was a raw player without a position in a traditional offense. We wasted years trying to make him a PG. (Are we doing the same with Quickly now?)

      I don’t want to say we blew the Obi pick yet even though Hali looks a lot better and most people had Hali above him, but that’s another tough call.

      We had plenty of chances to select quality players. I’m not talking about players that were selected much later that just happened to wind up being very good (hindsight is 20-20). I’m talking about keeping KP or getting fair value for him in that trade, Mikal Bridges, and someone other than Frank who fit. We could easily be way better even without good luck.

    87. We blew the Frank pick because we allowed Phil to take someone that fit perfectly into his long term vision of a 2 guard front with Frank behind a veteran 3&D free agent guard (we put Hardaway into that spot instead).

      Let me fix this for you.

      We blew the Frank pick

    88. And before the recent run, the Cavs got to pick LeBron James and Kyrie Irving and then had another #1 and then yet another #1. They’ve been extraordinarily lucky; the Knicks have been very unlucky.

      Oh sure, I didn’t mention their past success because that really was just legit luck. They were doing the Knick thing of trying to make the playoffs with a team not good enough to make the playoffs and they lucked into back to back picks. Their more recent results are more typical.

    89. Jokic’s first-half stats are what I wish Randle could do in a full game.

    90. You know who Sacramento could use? A recent second team All-NBA Power Point Forward, that’s who!

    91. pepper: berman heard you

      https://nypost.com/2022/01/25/quentin-grimes-earning-bigger-knicks-role-by-impressing-thibodeau/

      For those of you who seem to think young guys have to get playing time right away to develop there is this quote from Grimes in the article.

      Grimes said not playing early was a blessing in disguise.

      “It really benefitted me,’’ Grimes said. “During that time period I was just staying in the gym, coming back late at nights. Thibs always told me back then: Stay ready. That time prepared me for right now. I stayed true to my work ethic, and I was ready for a night like tonight.’’

    92. ***Grimes has been playing really well, and we should be pretty happy about him. By my count he’s about #5 or #6 overall in BPM among rookies (behind Mobley, Sengun, Yurtseven, Barnes, and ahead of Herbert Jones), ***

      BPM is cited a lot here, and I admit I have no idea how it’s calculated, but how on earth is Quintin Grimes rated higher than Herbert Jones by any reasonable all-in-one metric? Jones has played three times the career minutes, has a higher TS%, And is being touted as an all-defensive teamer as a rookie. How is he a net negative per BPM and Grimes a net positive? Is it a sample size flaw that’s likely to correct over time? Or is the stat just useless?

    93. How is he a net negative per BPM and Grimes a net positive? Is it a sample size flaw that’s likely to correct over time? Or is the stat just useless?

      BPM is a rate stat. Defensive BPM is not particularly useful-despite the name it’s a box score stat.

    94. “It really benefitted me,’’ Grimes said. “During that time period I was just staying in the gym, coming back late at nights. Thibs always told me back then: Stay ready. That time prepared me for right now. I stayed true to my work ethic, and I was ready for a night like tonight.’’

      So if he was playing in games, he wouldn’t be staying in the gym working out? That’s kind of odd, no?

    95. Blowing a 35 point lead and losing to a Luke Kennard 4 point play would be tough to take

      Man, the Wizards players were heated about the foul not being called before Kennard got the three off. You foul him there, the game’s pretty much over, right, since the Clippers had no timeouts left.

    96. Ty Lue absolutely deserves to be in the conversation for best coach in the league, his team never gives up on a single play. Absurd that they’re staying afloat without George and Leonard.

    97. Brian Cronin: So if he was playing in games, he wouldn’t be staying in the gym working out? That’s kind of odd, no?

      I assume players take light gym sessions during the regular season so that they aren’t worn out for games. At the very least during game days Grimes could go much harder than the rotation players, if for no other reason he didn’t just play 30-40min of an NBA game.

    98. Brian Cronin: So if he was playing in games, he wouldn’t be staying in the gym working out? That’s kind of odd, no?

      I thought about that and wondered if maybe playing significant minutes in a game takes something out of you physicality or mentally and makes practice different. He seems to think not playing let him focus on getting better.

      Edit: Early Bird, our posts crossed so we said the same thing

    99. Bruno Almeida:
      Ty Lue absolutely deserves to be in the conversation for best coach in the league, his team never gives up on a single play. Absurd that they’re staying afloat without George and Leonard.

      I agree

    100. ***BPM is a rate stat. Defensive BPM is not particularly useful-despite the name it’s a box score stat.***

      I get all that. But what is the justification for any all-in-one stat to value Grimes higher than Jones? Jones is more efficient, rebounds better, assists more, and shoots much better from the line, even ignoring the fact that he plays A LOT more and displays eye-opening defensive abilities.

    101. This brings up a discussion we had before. BPM has the words plus minus in its name and says that it compared a players performance to that of other players; but, according to pisters here, it composed of box score statistics. If it does have some sort of player comparison in it, then the teams other players could affect it; and also, like a lot of combined stats, it could be stronger for players on better teams. And we do have a better record than the Pelicans. If none of these are true and it really is a rate stat, then maybe it discounts the rebounding difference through a positional adjustment because forwards like Jones are in position to get more rebounds than guards are.

    102. I assume players take light gym sessions during the regular season so that they aren’t worn out for games. At the very least during game days Grimes could go much harder than the rotation players, if for no other reason he didn’t just play 30-40min of an NBA game.

      But how is that better than playing in the games?

      It just sounds like a dude who is trying to put a positive spin on not playing. But, at the same time, I mean, I guess I’m happy he was working out while not playing, better than not working out!

    103. When I practice a sport I can take time to work on my form and build useful muscle memories. When I’m playing an actual match or game I don’t have time for that and, in addition, the opponent is making things as hard as possible for me. I need both sorts of experiences to get better. I read once about how Dutch academies for football (soccer) train young players. They do lots of drills and few competitive games. If you follow international football at all you’ll know that the Dutch do very well for a country of their size.

    104. We’ve had discussions before about the developmental value of playing vs. not playing. I don’t know the clear answer, but I totally get Thibs’ philosophy that playing “undeserved” minutes is actually more detrimental than not playing, both to the individual and the team. In other words, playing for a team that is not fully committed to winning (somewhat regardless of the results) can also be not as conducive to development as sitting and busting your ass in the gym working on your deficiencies until you have demonstrated in practice that you can be trusted to play well when your number is called.

      Vets have bigger contracts and egos that need to be stroked, and benching vets gets coaches fired unless it’s okay with the FO. If Thibs shifts Randle’s minutes to Obi and Randle starts publicly asking for a trade, Thibs is as good as gone. Yet Thibs has shifter minutes to younger guys in select games…Fournier was benched during certain 4th quarters early on and a couple of times recently.

      I don’t know the answer but there are currently 5 guys in the 10-player rotation that are 23 or younger. McBride was not good in his chances and Reddish comes with KB-certified warts, so it’s not surprising that they are not playing until they light it up in practice. Sims is the rawest of raw projects. I truly don’t see anything wrong with that.

    105. Thibodeau made an interesting remark Monday when talking about Grimes, indicating the team can use more “tough’’ players like him. It could’ve been a shot at Fournier, the Frenchman who has hardly established himself as the closer even if he’s started all the games he has played in.

      Multiple NBA insiders have told The Post across the years Thibodeau has never been a big fan of some European players, feeling sometimes they can lack a certain on-court grit.

      The fatuous notion that Europeans were somehow “soft” left hockey like 25 years ago or more.

    106. Now if the argument is that playing the younger guys more would actually give Thibs a better chance of winning, I don’t know what to say there except that in the games that Julius was out we got murdered. There’s more to being a legit NBA high-minutes, high-usage, focal point player than scoring efficiency.

    107. Z-man: Now if the argument is that playing the younger guys more would actually give Thibs a better chance of winning, I don’t know what to say there except that in the games that Julius was out we got murdered. There’s more to being a legit NBA high-minutes, high-usage, focal pointplayer than scoring efficiency.

      I agree, but can we settle this on middle ground? Play Randle starter’s minutes, but don’t play him 38 mins, especially when Obi is killing it. Those days Randle should play 28 mins, or something like that, Obi gets the other 20 mins and some more if they play together for a little time (say 4 to 6 mins). Maybe this is a solution that is good for both sides, don’t you think?

    108. Miles McBride was the point guard in those two games. In the Cleveland game, the plus-minus difference between Obi Toppin and Julius Randle was +41 in Obi’s favor. Julius Randle is empirically and by the eye test, the most inefficient high-usage player in the NBA. He’s a net negative player and I have zero doubt that a bigger sample size where the only real change is reducing his minutes in favor of other players would be a net benefit to the team.

    109. I get all that. But what is the justification for any all-in-one stat to value Grimes higher than Jones? Jones is more efficient, rebounds better, assists more, and shoots much better from the line, even ignoring the fact that he plays A LOT more and displays eye-opening defensive abilities.

      here a few things bpm likes about grimes relative to jones that generate a higher obpm. note this is obviously education not editorial since as you know herb is my son.

      -bpm gives a constant positive coefficient to 3pm (0.389) over and above the value implicit in overall points, for all positions. you can think of this as a “spacing” bonus, but you can alternatively think of anything in bpm as just the outcome of a regression. this makes a big difference bc grimes is at 5.0 3pm/100 while herb is at 1.1.

      -the negative foul coefficient is similar to the 3pm and grimes has a moderately lower 4.5 vs 5.2 per 100.

      -most of the differences you noted above are very small. a ts of .582 vs .577 especially on jones’ anemic volume is trivial in the calculation. the ast/100 are actually identical. the ft% is subsumed in ts% so it’s individually irrelevant.

      -bpm doesn’t like defensive reb/100 for non-bigs so that doesn’t help herb, but his orb edge does def help him

      -and, of course, grimes scoring more pts at a TS above his team % is a relative boost to his bpm

      isaiah hartenstein currently has a higher bpm than gobert and towns in more minutes than grimes so maybe you should spend your time looking for the real killer instead of bashing one of our few specks of hope.

    110. I think it’s safe to conclude that Grimes is the best rookie that has ever been and will ever be.

    111. Z-man: playing for a team that is not fully committed to winning (somewhat regardless of the results) can also be not as conducive to development as sitting and busting your ass in the gym working on your deficiencies until you have demonstrated in practice that you can be trusted to play well when your number is called.

      I get that the team’s ethos should be “earn your minutes” but I do think it’s good to cycle young players into actual games if only to find out if we want to hold onto them, especially in a season that is distinctly not about winning a championship. For example, one of two things seems to be happening with Deuce. Either Thibs has decided Deuce can never be a starting point guard on this team OR Thibs has kicked that decision down the road. If it’s the former, then move Deuce off the roster and cycle someone else in. If it’s the latter, then we’re wasting time.

      Sadly, I feel the same about Obi. Either Thibs has decided he never wants that guy slashing to the basket for 20 minutes a game, or he’s delaying us finding out how good/bad Obi can be. And for what? So Julius can be among the league leaders in minutes? A vet can be “respected” without leading the league in minutes. It makes no sense. Instead of rolling his eyes and yanking Obi, Thibs should have him out there consistently and should implore him to shoot that three over and over and over. Worst case we find out Obi should be traded. Better now than later.

      OTOH I respect that IQ is getting a long look. I respect that Grimes is finding his way into games. Obvs RJ has had a long leash. So I won’t say overall that Thibs is not playing the kids. I just want more actionable info about the other ones we have.

    112. Even RJ’s old man’s game fits into Thibs’s heuristic “low-risk” preferences and that’s why he’s ok with RJ. Even at that, we still get the one-way silliness and the bullshit like the “RJ needs to get into the gym” and the “RJ should have gone downhill with that play rather than shoot.”

      And it’s really no surprise, is it, that Thibs apparently has an association rep for having a strong and rather crudely nativist preference for “tough” Americans in lieu of Euros.

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