Knicks Morning News (2022.01.22)

  • Knicks face the Clippers on 3-game skid – Charlotte Observer
    [www.charlotteobserver.com] — Saturday, January 22, 2022 5:29:37 AM

    Knicks face the Clippers on 3-game skid  Charlotte Observer

  • Clippers vs. Knicks – Game Preview – January 23, 2022 – ESPN
    [www.espn.com] — Saturday, January 22, 2022 3:08:52 AM

    Clippers vs. Knicks – Game Preview – January 23, 2022  ESPN

  • Knicks face the Clippers on 3-game skid | National | dailyunion.com – Daily Union
    [www.dailyunion.com] — Saturday, January 22, 2022 3:02:50 AM

    Knicks face the Clippers on 3-game skid | National | dailyunion.com  Daily Union

  • Immanuel Quickley, Alec Burks’ struggles coming at damaging time for Knicks – New York Post
    [nypost.com] — Saturday, January 22, 2022 1:05:00 AM

    Immanuel Quickley, Alec Burks’ struggles coming at damaging time for Knicks  New York Post Kemba Walker back in lineup for Knicks after missing 9 games  NBA.comKnicks Notes: Walker, Randle, Toppin, Grimes, Reddish  hoopsrumors.comThunder 95, Knicks 80: Scenes from a sobering reminder that the Knicks aren’t good  Posting and ToastingObi Toppin leads the New York Knicks in this advanced stat  Daily KnicksView Full Coverage on Google News

  • The New York Knicks Have Waived A Player And Signed A Player – Sports Illustrated
    [www.si.com] — Friday, January 21, 2022 11:38:19 PM

    The New York Knicks Have Waived A Player And Signed A Player  Sports Illustrated

  • Knicks have turned Madison Square Garden into home-court disadvantage – New York Post
    [nypost.com] — Friday, January 21, 2022 6:54:00 PM

    Knicks have turned Madison Square Garden into home-court disadvantage  New York Post

  • ESPN replaces one of Memphis Grizzlies’ nationally televised games with Heat vs. Knicks – Commercial Appeal
    [www.commercialappeal.com] — Friday, January 21, 2022 6:01:35 PM

    ESPN replaces one of Memphis Grizzlies’ nationally televised games with Heat vs. Knicks  Commercial Appeal

  • NY Knicks: The Joker comes to Gotham – Daily Knicks
    [dailyknicks.com] — Friday, January 21, 2022 6:00:00 PM

    NY Knicks: The Joker comes to Gotham  Daily Knicks

  • Agent Ron Anderson: Knicks Go ‘Seems To Run Around The Turn As Fast As He Does Around The Straight’ – Horse Racing News – Paulick Report
    [www.paulickreport.com] — Friday, January 21, 2022 4:19:00 PM

    Agent Ron Anderson: Knicks Go ‘Seems To Run Around The Turn As Fast As He Does Around The Straight’ – Horse Racing News  Paulick Report

  • NBA Trade Deadline: Derrick Rose Return Could Give New York Knicks Boost Without Need for Major Deal – Sportscasting
    [www.sportscasting.com] — Friday, January 21, 2022 3:45:52 PM

    NBA Trade Deadline: Derrick Rose Return Could Give New York Knicks Boost Without Need for Major Deal  Sportscasting

  • BetMGM New York: Bet $10 to get $200 Bonus Code – Rocky Top Insider
    [www.rockytopinsider.com] — Friday, January 21, 2022 12:59:50 PM

    BetMGM New York: Bet $10 to get $200 Bonus Code  Rocky Top Insider

  • Should RJ Barrett be the New York Knicks 1st option? – Daily Knicks
    [dailyknicks.com] — Friday, January 21, 2022 10:18:00 AM

    Should RJ Barrett be the New York Knicks 1st option?  Daily Knicks

  • Pelicans 102, Knicks 91: “The ship be sinking” – Posting and Toasting
    [www.postingandtoasting.com] — Friday, January 21, 2022 10:00:49 AM

    Pelicans 102, Knicks 91: “The ship be sinking”  Posting and Toasting

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    132 thoughts to “Knicks Morning News (2022.01.22)”

    1. I’m gonna try something out of the Parcells playbook and express slight displeasure with someone who’s playing well…

      Mitch, my boy! You have confidence in your jumper, right? According to all those summer workout vids..videos.. must have confidence! I don’t want you to be insubordinate- but my guy! You gotta take a jumper in a game- I don’t care if Thibs yanks you for it or not. At this point, we need a wrinkle, and the lane is too clogged for Julius to accack the basket if he wants to. See, it’s different for RJ, because he’s a wing. When Randle drives, he has a C and a PF there- unless he completely blows by his man. So help him out- take that 15 footer. You already have taken these slow footed Centers off the dribble- NOW MAKE THEM GUARD YOU OUTSIDE OF THE PAINT FOR PAT’S SAKE(see what I did there?)!! Shit!!

    2. Been a crazy week for me, have watched the games but haven’t had time to weigh in much. In reading the blog, seems like the consensus is that it’s time to blow it up. I find that kind of humorous given that teams like the Lakers, Celtics, Hawks and Clippers are all in the mix with us as disappointing teams.

      My take: beyond the obvious Randle quandary, we have several glaring holes:
      1) competent 2-way PG play
      2) athletic wing play
      3) backup C

      for 1), we are missing arguably our best “clutch” player. How many times last year did DRose just take over a few minutes of games in the 2nd half? The dropoff from Rose to Kemba/Quickley is literally off a cliff.

      For 2), it just seemed like RJ and Burks couldn’t keep up with the waves of long, athletic wings that CHA, Min and NOP kept throwing at us. Combined with out PG limitations, it seemed like we were very vulnerable to those wings pressuring our scorers out on the perimeter, and neither Randle nor RJ has the burst or shooting ability to deal with them, and Grimes is green and not especially long or athletic. We just look like a plodding, unathletic team that can’t keep up, and that’s not helped by problems 1) and 3). Maybe Cam can help out here, but probably not. Can Obi play some 3? eh, not without Nerlens back there to erase his many mistakes.

      for 3), a healthy Nerlens Noel is sorely missed. He played very well during our ascent to the 4-spot last year. I love Taj but his rim protection and other aspects of defense can’t compare with Nerlens, who was perfect for a transition-oriented 2nd unit.

      There’s no easy way out of this, but selling low on Randle just to dump his contract would not be ideal. I guess it’s a decent long-term strategic move but if you keep Thibs around it seems like an impossibility. I think Thibs and Julius are kind of joined at the hip, so my guess is that it doesn’t happen. The above three issues are sort of excuses for Julius’s and RJ’s poor play. My guess is that we ride out the year with this roster and then make some moves in the offseason. But if the Lakers are that desperate, sure, make something big happen!

    3. Yeah, someone made the point that we are missing Rose and Noel yesterday and I was going to second it also. We are a better team with those two guys healthy. Although the fact they aren’t should hardly be surprising.

      Mitch shooting jumpers, I don/t know. Why don’t we just feed him at the rim instead 10 times a game like we have been begging them to do for three years?

    4. As to Mitch, sorry stans, I just see a very low-IQ, very limited player living off of his massive talent around the rim. There is zero excuse for him fouling out against Minny the way he did, that’s basketball 101. Sure, I can live with signing him to the max extension we can give him, but I worry that his inability to think the game is going to cost us in big spots at some point.

    5. Owen: Why don’t we just feed him at the rim instead 10 times a game like we have been begging them to do for three years?

      Some folks make it sound like this is so easy. Yet my guess is that even a more conscious effort wouldn’t positively change his stats or game outcomes much. His FT shooting is a serious issue. My guess is that if we had more success on those plays, teams would just adapt a bit and either just send him to the line or goad him and the guy feeding him into enough turnovers and bad shots to water down the efficiency of those plays.

    6. It’s a take Z-Man.

      I’d like to see Mitch play with a real point guard before accepting the notion that this is his limit for touches in a game.

    7. I don’t think they’ll blow it up.
      I’d be okay with playing the kids more, without throwing everything away, but that too isn’t going to happen.
      Rose can “disarm” Thibs trading away some of the veterans but I doubt even that.
      To change course they need to change coach and I don’t see it happening.
      Meanwhile the team looks like a rudderless ship.
      I hope I’m dead wrong.

      Maybe having Rose and Noel back can help (but when will they be?) and/or Reddish will give us some athleticism.

      Godspeed to every Knicks fan.

    8. Z-man:
      As to Mitch, sorry stans, I just see a very low-IQ, very limited player living off of his massive talent around the rim. There is zero excuse for him fouling out against Minny the way he did. I I can live with signing him to the max extension we can give him, but his inability to think the game is going to cost us in big spots at some point.

      You know, I was getting used to Mitch as a player who could score but in limited opportunities and who wasn’t improving, but lately I’m not so sure. He’s been getting better as the season has progressed and he had 17 points and 15 rebounds in 30 minutes against the Pelicans which is a great game for him. He did foul out the game before but it was against Towns and Taj also fouled out. He may be a slow learner, but he does seem to be learning. Let’s see how he does the rest of the season.

    9. Chandler was never a good free throw shooter, either, but some very good Knick offenses looked to him on the PnR at the start of, like, every offensive set. Melo fed off of those sets a lot. It was highly effective and the Knicks currently just don’t even try it. It wasn’t like Raymond Felton was John Stockton out there, either, ya know? The only PnR looks that Mitch gets now are…not accidental, but they’re sure not planned, either.

    10. I agree that Mitch doesn’t think the game well. But, since he’s had Kenny Payne, he has improved in that area. He’ll never be Prime Noah defensively- that guy was a defensive savant. I think Mitch’s biggest problem is he’s just so athletic. It’s so much easier to rely on that athleticism than it is to slow down and think the game. With his gifts, he should land somewhere in the realm of Chandler, Camby and Ewing defensively- and that is still very, very good. I will take that 8 days out of the week. He’s starting to show he’s willing to work for it, so he’s a guy we should keep. Noel thinks the game better, and I wonder how much he’s actually helping Mitch out. Noel’s still fairly young and might be selfish enough to not help the guy learn faster. This is where we really need Payne and Thib’s tutelage to be effective.

    11. It’s kind of sad that Mitch and…sort of Grimes are the only bright spots of the last week or so. It’d be swell if IQ or Obi or RJ started playing well, as well. Just give us something to pin our hopes to, people!!

    12. It seems like most of our pick and rolls are with the Randle-Fournier tandem… maybe the two slowest guys we have. Needless to say, it doesn’t work that often. If we traded Randle and made Mitch the pnr big, that would be fun. Or put Randle on the wing while PG/Mitch run the pnr. Both of those are very unlikely to happen, though.

    13. I just think Mitch’s development or lack of is the least of our concerns. He’s effective in a limited role, he clearly isn’t set up for success on our offensive schemes and he doesn’t have a really good defense around him to help him on that end either. We’ve seen Capela be very effective in a similar limited role last season, hell, even JaVale McGee has been pretty great for the Suns and he’s even more limited. There’s definitely space in a good roster for a guy like him, but when everything else is a mess of course he won’t be fully utilized in an optimal manner.

    14. The Suns are so good, though, that they are making Bismack Biyombo seem competent as McGee’s current backup with Ayton out!

    15. JaVale McGee is a good comparison, since he was also a very low IQ/limited type of player early on and has since become much more versatile in his important but limited role while playing alongside all-time great players. Thing is, his greatest value was as a vet’s minimum player acquired after a core was built. And that’s my point about Mitch. At his current salary, he’s a great rotation piece. But once you pay him starter’s money, you are sort of punting on having a high IQ starting C because you don’t want to lock into Mitch on an inflated salary as a bench player that would make getting those guys harder w/o an all-out tank.

      I don’t like the Chandler comparison as much because Chandler seemed to have a much better understanding of spacing and team defense at age 22-23 than Mitch. And the game has changed pretty dramatically since he was on the Mavs/Knicks so maybe his salary during those years was proportionally more valuable than in the current NBA. Somehow I feel that prime Chandler would be more effective on our team than current Mitch, but it’s just a feeling, and I doubt that it would solve our problems.

      I guess we’ll have to wait until we have a solid PG and efficient wings to space the floor a bit for Mitch before passing final judgment. He has shown some signs of development this year but has taken some steps back in some areas. So it’s really more about team-building timing for me than anything else. He’s still not out of the woods as being injury-prone, so locking him up for 4 years seems risky on a couple of levels, but sure, I can’t argue that it would definitely be a bad idea. Just not an exciting one for me in that we can find a reasonable analog more cheaply at a later date.

    16. At this point we are looking at drafting around 10th which isnt a horrible spot. I’m looking at Fournier replacements or the elusive long term solution at PG.

      Kendall Brown, Keegan Murray and AJ griffin are interesting wing talent around our range. Ty Ty Washington and Kennedy Chandler are both good PG prospects. Really like Kennedy he has pretty much everything we need from a PG.

    17. Will be interesting to see what the team does with IQ and Miles if we draft a PG and bring Rokas over next season.

    18. Z-man: There is zero excuse for him fouling out against Minny the way he did, that’s basketball 101.

      Gotta push back on this. Sure it was stupid and some of the fouls were egregious, but the “brilliant” veteran basketball mind Taj Gibson fouled out, too, and Mitch hasn’t fouled out of game since who knows when, and is rarely in foul trouble these last two years. Was it a stupid move on Mitch’s part? Yeah. Sign of the Mitch Apocalypse? No.

      On that topic: there were two super obvious moments in that last game when Mitch was wide open under the basket and various people never looked. WIDE open. There should be a fine for that. Rule One, look to see if Mitch is open. If not, Plan B.

      Finally, didn’t Chandler develop a really nice little 10-15 ft jumper he’d pull out once or twice a game?

    19. KevinR:
      Will be interesting to see what the team does with IQ and Miles if we draft a PG and bring Rokas over next season.

      Deuce worries me. He can’t buy a shot and there was reason to think that’d be his problem coming out of college. I’m not pinning my hopes on Deuce being the PG of the future.

      IQ is more of a 2 anyway. So I’m not worried about him creating a logjam at PG.

      If all these guys are capable of running the point, that’s a very good problem to have.

    20. This roster is so frustrating to figure out. I don’t even Leon one bit. We gotta get Cam in there, and keep Grimes in the rotation. Considering there’s probably not gonna be a Kemba move out there outside of waiving him(unfortunately), our options are probably limited to making a lateral move like Fournier for Bertans- while making Kemba and RJ the starting backcourt. Then maybe we can see about packaging Burks, Obi, and Kemba in a move for a starting PG and a match-up based PF to cover for Taj and Sims if the need ever arises for them to play heavy minutes. If something like that happens, I’d probably start Cam at the 3(spacing be damned) and make Bertans a combo forward with the 2nd unit- which is probably his optimal role anyway. I really don’t want to lose Burks. I think he’s perfect for our second unit and as a spot starter at the 2

    21. Hey, for anybody who wasn’t there last night to watch me and Mero talk to Chris Herring about his 90s Knicks book, the recording’s still up here. Mero’s audio has issues, but if nothing else, it’s worth it for Chris talking about how he tried and failed to answer the important question of whether Biggie’s “A Story To Tell” was about Anthony Mason.

    22. Our DRTG has crept up to 13th. That’s mostly due to a healthy Mitch. A Mitch who is covering for a bunch of terrible defenders.

      Mitch is worth keeping. Offense be damned.

    23. I was late on Macri’s newsletter, but Trent Tucker is 7th in the history of the Knicks for games played?
      WOW

    24. I’m gonna go out on a long limb and predict the Knicks win their next 2 against the Clips and Cavs. It would be very Knicksy to suck us back in just when we were ready to abandon all hope.

      And then we’ll get our asses kicked by the Kings in our next home game.

    25. And this one from Fred Katz is not bad too:

      “Burks is nearly shooting worse on layups than he is on 3s. He’s making only 41 percent of his shots in the restricted area, easily a career low. And it gets worse. Of the 184 players who have taken at least as many shots in the restricted area as Burks this season, Burks’ 41 percent places him dead last.
      ….
      ….
      The last time a player took as many shots in the restricted area as Burks has this season and shot a worse percentage was in 2016-17, when … Alec Burks did it.”

    26. I’m not too high on Miles either. The defense and shooting is nice but you need a PG to creat separation and thats always been his weak point.

      On IQ hes struggling this year because his 3’s aren’t falling. On twitter someone mentioned this has been the worst 3pt % year league wide since ‘04. This is coming off last season where it was the 2nd highest 3pt % year since that ‘04. The biggest fault seem to be the new ball.

    27. I got it..
      Philly is hard capped no matter what, and is win now mode right?
      Why not offer Noel/Burks/Kemba/Obi/our 1st this year and the 2nd we got from Detroit for Simmons & Drummond? That seems like a steal for someone who’s not playing for them- no matter how talented. I’m even cool throwing a future unprotected first in there to sweeten the pot

    28. This:

      Brian Cronin: Chandler was never a good free throw shooter, either, but some very good Knick offenses looked to him on the PnR at the start of, like, every offensive set. Melo fed off of those sets a lot. It was highly effective and the Knicks currently just don’t even try it.

      And this:

      Raven: On that topic: there were two super obvious moments in that last game when Mitch was wide open under the basket and various people never looked. WIDE open. There should be a fine for that. Rule One, look to see if Mitch is open. If not, Plan B.

      Thibs’s Knicks are allergic to easy baskets. I don’t know why.

      And thanks for the link, Alan. Bought the book.

    29. In the meantime, gave a little thought to the subject, and i think we can do a lot better than Westbrick. Randle is a good player, it’s just that he might be 3rd banana, after all. We were hoping he was 2nd banana, because of last season, but unless he wins MIP again, he’s not at that level. But a 3rd banana can net us a good return also, so it’s not wise to dump him.
      The other course of action, which is the option of team patience, is to keep him and hope he gets to all star level again. It’ll be quite as painful as Westbrick, because Randle style of play when things aren’t working is awful to the eyes. But without tanking, even if for a season like this one that seems lost (except to people that don’t know our next 22 games), it’ll probably involve trading Randle all the same, when the time to trade for 1st or 2nd banana comes.
      Choices that Leon must make, so let’s wait and see.

    30. Thibs’s Knicks are allergic to easy baskets. I don’t know why.

      Maybe for the same reason why we’re 30th in pace?

    31. KevinR: I’m not too high on Miles either.

      Apparently this is the day for me to (be) disagree(able). Kid’s in a really unfortunate shooting slump right now — which we also saw at the start of the summer league, when he went the first few games throwing up crap. Ended up shooting 53%, and 50% from 3, even with that bad start. In the G league he’s averaging 29.2 points, 8.2 assists, 6.4 rebounds and 2.4 steals on 44.4% shooting from 3-point range. Yeah, Summer and G leagues, but it’s a track record.

      Will he turn into prime DRose or Ja? No. But we’ve been pining for two of the shortest and most unathletic-looking point guards in the NBA recently (FVV and Brunson, both straight out of the Mark Jackson “No way” department). Kid was a quarterback, I think he’s got the smarts and talent. He’s a rookie at the hardest position to learn in the sport. Giving up on him after a Thibsian dog-collar 146 minutes is just so Knicksy.

    32. Totes McGoats as Totes McGoats: Why not offer Noel/Burks/Kemba/Obi/our 1st this year and the 2nd we got from Detroit for Simmons & Drummond? That seems like a steal for someone who’s not playing for them

      Totes, there’s no way Morey accepts this offer. Philly will get more draft capital for Simmons, and Burks is probably the best player you’re sending them. Oof.

    33. Max: Maybe for the same reason why we’re 30th in pace?

      Exactly. Doesn’t Thibs often say stuff like, “We just gotta slow the game down and make the right reads.” Well, like you say, coach is getting his wish, but everyone on the planet knows the read that’s coming.

      As for “blowing this team up,” our chatter here does’t seem so different from our chatter last season before DRose came over and “fixed it.” Of course he is not the longterm answer, but we sorted some of these same problems with easy transition buckets from Obi and with IQ shooting set threes, all on a more fluid 2nd unit, etc. This helped Randle (IMO) as well.

      Sadly, Thibs only “suffers” that 7 seconds or less team if we’re down by 20 or if DRose is running the show. Otherwise, it doesn’t seem to be Thibs’s wish at all, so, sadly, Leon may not even be looking for the kind of PG savior we’re hoping for … yet.

    34. In the meantime, gave a little thought to the subject, and i think we can do a lot better than Westbrick. Randle is a good player, it’s just that he might be 3rd banana, after all.

      The problem is the longer we wait, the more likely it becomes that Randle becomes downright untradable period. The Lakers might be able to talk themselves into Randle after half a season of awfulness, but what about a full season? What about two seasons?

      I get the appeal of waiting until Randle turns it around to broach the topic, but that assumes Randle will turn it around. The Nowitzkian shot diet is not going to start yielding better efficiency, or at least not by nearly enough to substantially change the course of his season. That means if he turns it around it will be because he fundamentally changed his game, and I’m seeing no signs whatsoever he’s willing to do that. Why wouldn’t it have happened by now?

    35. The other reason to move Randle now instead of waiting is his extension hasn’t kicked in. Trade $21M is a lot easier than trading $29-30M.

    36. Furthermore, I see no reason to think that this team is “blown up” without Randle and Fournier. We’ve played better without them.

    37. DudeInKnicksTown:
      How can Deuce be in a shooting slump when he almost never gets to play or to shoot?

      Right. Deuce got (basically) no opportunity to fail/learn while both Kemba and DRose were out, so I don’t think Thibs considers him a potential solution — at all. Instead, Deuce is just there for the fan narrative, i.e. for us to chat about him like so many Knickerblogger “what if” players that have come before ;-)

    38. Matinee at MSG. Predict we lay another egg. Agree that the longer we wait on Randall the lower his trade value becomes. Thibs has lost this locker room. No one is listening and no amount of talent or X’s and O’s will make a difference until the culture changes and they establish an identity. Starts with a change at the top. Need a shock to the system.

      Edited: But I’ll be lighting the incense and chanting and dancing like a fool anyway because that’s what we do right? #ItsAHardKnicksLife

    39. Rose will probably help a bit. We were also 11-15 in games he played this year. He’s not turning this season around to an extent necessary to justify chasing wins.

      BRef gives us a 9.1% chance to make the playoffs and a 38.4% chance to make a play-in game. We don’t have any cap space opening up this offseason and if the season ended today our pick would be 11th.

      It’s almost a caricature of the worst position a team can be in, and we all would’ve agreed with that before the season. It’s NBA 101.

      If you want to give it until the deadline to see if we can make a miraculous run to…the 7th seed, I guess that’s fine but I’m not seeing any reason, Derrick Rose’s return included, to believe we’ll turn this around.

    40. Orlando Magic North

      cybersoze: i think we can do a lot better than Westbrick

      The point is to get out from Randle’s contract, not to pin hopes to Westbrook. If the man can’t win on the Lakers, he sure as hell isn’t going to win here. And that’s okay.

    41. DudeInKnicksTown:
      How can Deuce be in a shooting slump when he almost never gets to play or to shoot?

      He’s shooting sub-28% from the field. Anyway you slice it and no matter how sporadic his minutes, that is not a good number.

    42. Instead of a PG, is there any appetite/suggestion here for a trade target that’s an available stretch 5 (and don’t say KP ;-)).

      As oft mentioned by our esteemed community: when our opponent can clog the paint, RJ gets blocked, Fournier looks useless, Randle gets frustrated and complains about fouls for 47.5 minutes a game. Everything is just so difficult. Sometimes, I suggest, when our opponent has basically no center, RJ, Fournier, and Randle look like the f-ing Globetrotters.

      Surely we can acquire some tall, 2nd-tier-quality-guy who must be defended on the perimeter for 10 minutes a game. Even with our own embarrassment of riches at the 5 (Mitch, Noel, Taj, Sims, Randle in a pinch) it’s all same-same-game-game. We could use an alternate look just to force a different defense once in a while.

      And, sadly, Thibs has not wanted to experiment with Randle at the 5 for more than a few minutes a month because (presumably) Obi would then score too many points.

    43. Apparently, our G-League team just acquired the rights to Allen Crabbe. Am I correct in remembering that people here wanted to try to sign Crabbe as an RFA before Brooklyn swooped in?

    44. KB Apprentice: Thibs’s Knicks are allergic to easy baskets. I don’t know why.

      Ah, you people with your schemes and your shortcuts and your gimmicks. Easy baskets are for pussies. And if there’s one thing that Tom Thibodeau will not abide, it’s coaching a team of pussies.

    45. thenoblefacehumper: It’s almost a caricature of the worst position a team can be in, and we all would’ve agreed with that before the season. It’s NBA 101.

      Yes. Only thing more Knicksy might be if we had indeed “won” the lottery and were spending eternity Waiting for (injured) Godot-Zion while watching him eat nachos in street clothes at the Garden. That might crush me.

    46. There just aren’t many stretch 5s. But I’d take any of Myles Turner, Christian Wood, and some dude named Naz Reid on Minnesota.

      Sign me up for any of those options, but those guys aren’t coming cheap. Minnesota has Naz locked up on a cheap contract for several years, so I doubt he’s getting moved.

    47. Also, since we’re capped out for the next few years anyway it strikes me as a terrible idea to let Mitch walk and get nothing in return. Yes, he’s limited in many ways, but he’s also anchored our defensive renaissance and has never gotten to play with a point guard because not having a point guard is a big part of what we do here.

      He completely missed Rose’s arrival last season, and this season they’ve only played 185 minutes together (FWIW Mitch’s numbers are better from both a volume and efficiency standpoint in those minutes).

      Maybe there’s a trade that makes sense and I’m aware it’s not wise to spend a lot on unexceptional centers, but does it not feel like a stone cold lock that he’d make us regret losing him somewhere else? Spending $27M AAV on Randle, who has been one of the worst players in the NBA this season, and saving money on Mitch does not feel like a smart way to go about things.

    48. E, all merc’d out: Ah, you people with your schemes and your shortcuts and your gimmicks.Easy baskets are for pussies.And if there’s one thing that Tom Thibodeau will not abide, it’s coaching a team of pussies.

      Haha.

      I would love to watch footage of Thibs’s practices. I expect his offense succeeds (in slow motion) b/c the 2nd team guys on defense pretend they don’t know what’s coming. By contrast, real live opponents must seem to play D at triple speed with uncanny anticipation as they easily swat away all our lame shit. Then our guys complain to the refs.

    49. Apparently, our G-League team just acquired the rights to Allen Crabbe. Am I correct in remembering that people here wanted to try to sign Crabbe as an RFA before Brooklyn swooped in?

      He had some support, but looking back at the conversations, most of us (me included) felt that you’d have to crack $20 million a year before Portland would flinch, as anything up until that point, I think they believed they could still move him the next year and that cracking $20 million and maxing Allen Crabbe was a bad idea. And sure enough, the Nets offered $18.75 million a year and Portland matched and then, sure enough, dealt him the next year to the Nets. Then he got hurt for the Nets and was never the same player again (not that he was ever that great to begin with, of course).

    50. Early Bird: He’s shooting sub-28% from the field. Anyway you slice it and no matter how sporadic his minutes, that is not a good number.

      How much worse could Deuce be? ;-)

      According to the Post: “Since a Jan. 12 win over the Mavericks, the fill-in point guards have combined to shoot 22-for-77 (30.6 percent) from the field.”

      The story neglects to mention that neither Quickley or Burks are actually point guards and offers none of our speculation that their shooting percentages might be dipping b/c they … are … being used … as point guards.

    51. An underrated Leon Rose front office blunder was not just signing Christian Wood, as many a Knickerblogger poster would’ve done.

    52. KB Apprentice: How much worse could Deuce be? ;-)

      According to the Post: “Since a Jan. 12 win over the Mavericks, the fill-in point guards have combined to shoot 22-for-77 (30.6 percent) from the field.”

      The story neglects to mention that neither Quickley or Burks are actually point guards and offers none of our speculation that their shooting percentages might be dipping b/c they … are … being used … as point guards.

      I’m not saying trade or give up on the kid, I’m just saying he’s not a good reason to avoid drafting a PG. He should be playing for his defense alone.

    53. Early Bird: He’s shooting sub-28% from the field. Anyway you slice it and no matter how sporadic his minutes, that is not a good number.

      He’s taken only 54 shots in 18 games. Give the kid a chance.

    54. thenoblefacehumper: The problem is the longer we wait, the more likely it becomes that Randle becomes downright untradable period. The Lakers might be able to talk themselves into Randle after half a season of awfulness, but what about a full season? What about two seasons?

      Yeah, that is the problem, no doubt. But right now he’s probably at an all time low, i think he will regress to the mean and be more tradeable.

    55. DudeInKnicksTown: He’s taken only 54 shots in 18 games. Give the kid a chance.

      Early Bird: I’m not saying trade or give up on the kid, I’m just saying he’s not a good reason to avoid drafting a PG. He should be playing for his defense alone.

    56. Early Bird: I’m not saying trade or give up on the kid, I’m just saying he’s not a good reason to avoid drafting a PG. He should be playing for his defense alone.

      Totally. I didn’t get “trade or give up” from you at all. Rather, I’m agreeing with your point about Deuce’s low shooting percentage and just pointing out that Thibs’s plan is faring no better. If nothing else, playing Deuce might help on D and get Burks and IQ to shoot better.

      With all coach’s talk about the next guy needing to step up, he did the exact opposite (IMO) by forcing IQ and Burks outside their comfort zones instead of just playing the next available PG — Deuce. And it’s doubly frustrating (to me) that Thibs even wasted some easy justification to play the kids since there was a lot of Covid going around. Some games were basically “freebies” so he should have used those games as such.

    57. The Honorable Cock Jowles: The point is to get out from Randle’s contract, not to pin hopes to Westbrook. If the man can’t win on the Lakers, he sure as hell isn’t going to win here. And that’s okay.

      Yeah, i know none of us want Westbrick. What i was saying is that i think Randle probably still has some shine from the all-star appearance and we can get a better deal for him, instead of dumping him for a bad contract (be it Westbrick or not). Would MIN accept Randle for McDaniels and Beasley? They might, because they’re trying to win now. It’s deals like this that i think we should be searching for.

    58. Thibodeau said Cam Reddish is 100 percent healthy. Said he’ll see where he is tomorrow but cautioned about patience as he has a rotation.— Marc Berman (@NYPost_Berman) January 22, 2022

      We traded 4 years of team control of Player X for 1.5 Reddish, so unfortunately I think there is some urgency to collecting data points on the guy.

      Yeah, that is the problem, no doubt. But right now he’s probably at an all time low, i think he will regress to the mean and be more tradeable.

      It’s quite possible, but my concern is we don’t know what the mean is for the version of Randle who’s in the 80th+ percentile for his position on shot frequency from the midrange. That version has only existed since he became a Knick. The data points we have are his 2019-2020 season, which was better than this one but still bad, and his 2020-2021 season, which was excellent but perhaps the product of all of the weirdness associated with that season.

      Personally I’ve come to the conclusion he’s not going to succeed playing this way and he’s going to have to revert to at least some extent to the version we saw from 2017-2019, who was actually above the 50th percentile in shot frequency at the rim (65th and 59th percentile those two season, compared to 11th and 18th this one and last one).

      That comes down to his willingness to accept he’s probably not making another all-NBA team and needs to be a more typical play finisher type. I’m not getting the impression that’s going to sit well with him.

    59. Yeah, with Cam Reddish here the Knicks should move Fournier. I don’t like Cam, but we have him and we should give him the opportunity to play.

      FWIW, Randle can’t be traded until Feb 2nd. So even if there’s a pre-deadline deal, there won’t be one before that date.

    60. ***seems like the consensus is that it’s time to blow it up. I find that kind of humorous given that teams like the Lakers, Celtics, Hawks and Clippers are all in the mix with us as disappointing teams.***

      I think that the teams who are waiting for their all-nba first teamers to get healthy aren’t really in the same disappointment category. They will improve over time simply by doing nothing, whereas the Knicks will not.

    61. thenoblefacehumper: BRef gives us a 9.1% chance to make the playoffs and a 38.4% chance to make a play-in game. We don’t have any cap space opening up this offseason and if the season ended today our pick would be 11th.
      It’s almost a caricature of the worst position a team can be in, and we all would’ve agreed with that before the season.

      This made me sad, because it’s true.

    62. I think the shine from Randle’s last year will wear off faster than a bounce back year from Randle (probably to his 1st year Knicks numbers) will restore his value. I don’t think it’s worth the risk in delaying if we can dump him for Russ.

      I also worry that Randle vs the Fans will reach a further boiling point that tanks his value even more.

    63. When RJ and Reddish are on the court together, can we call them the Dukes of Hazard?

      Or Winston and Mortimer Duke, as the Knicks trade places with the 2015-2020 Orlando Magic.

    64. Bondy:

      Wouldn’t expect many minutes for Cam Reddish if he’s available. Thibs said:

      “We have a rotation so he has to be patient and work his way through that.”

    65. If Thibs doesn’t play Reddish at all I’m firmly going to be in the camp that he needs to get fired. What sort of disfunction would have to be in place for the front office to trade a 1st for a player with a 1 and a half year contract and the coach refuses to put him in the rotation?

      I don’t like Reddish, I didn’t like the trade and I don’t think he’ll contribute to many wins, but the trade has been made and it’s imperative that we get Reddish in the mix as early as possible to see if he can provide anything.

    66. Thibs attitude towards Reddish is making me think Luca Vildoza actually was available for the playoffs. (Sorry Alan).

    67. Yeah, holy shit, Thibs, what in the fuck does “We have a rotation” mean in this context? He wasn’t on your fucking team when you “had a rotation,” so why in the fucking world would your rotation before he got here have anything to do with the guy your team just dealt a slightly charred first round pick for and who is up for an extension this summer?

    68. This kind of disconnect between the FO and Thibs is concerning but i assume it means a trade is in the works to clear room and force Thibs to play him.

    69. I mean, it does make sense to not rush Cam into the rotation. Cam will probably be better served if he needs to cut out his bad tendencies before getting minutes. Plus, the team is still close to a play-in spot.

      It’s fine. I’m just ready to punt on the season. Thibs clearly isn’t. He’s a coach, so that’s what he “should” be doing.

    70. Guessing Obi or Fournier is gone idk if they want to trade Burks considering how good hes been for us.

    71. We have three signs now that Thibs & Leon might not be working together cohesively:

      1. Rose wouldn’t give him Bullock back, who he desperately wanted.

      2. Thibs’ quick trigger banishment of Kemba to Siberia.

      3. This Reddish situation.

      Sounds reminiscent of his Chicago days.

    72. I don’t want to defend Austin Rivers, but we had a 10-men rotation last year, Derrick Rose came in, played 20 minutes in his first game (then 20, 23, 24 and so on) while Rivers was glued to the bench for good and then traded when he had the boldness to questions his coach “the rules are the same for everyone” fake stance.

      Culture.

    73. “Incinerate” is not strong enough of a term to describe what you’ve done to a pick if you trade it for 1.5 years or Cam Reddish and then don’t play Cam Reddish

    74. Other than his Truly Committed pets, everyone grew to detest Thibs in Chicago and everyone grew to detest him in Minnesota — and in Minnesota it took about half the time. It will also happen here.

    75. Thibs attitude towards Reddish is making me think Luca Vildoza actually was available for the playoffs. (Sorry Alan).

      NOT COOL EARLY BIRD

    76. not sure who this dude is but this is what he had in his mock for us (left the “incinerated now AtL pick in there to stir the pot) today on ESPN:

      14. New York Knicks

      Sidy Cissoko | Baskonia | SG | Age: 17.8

      17. Atlanta Hawks (from Charlotte)

      Dillon Mitchell | Texas* | SF/PF | Age: 18.3

      18. New York Knicks (from Dallas)

      Caleb Houstan | Michigan | SF | Age: 19.0

    77. Hubert:
      We have three signs now that Thibs & Leon might not be working together cohesively:

      1. Rose wouldn’t give him Bullock back, who he desperately wanted.

      2. Thibs’ quick trigger banishment of Kemba to Siberia.

      3. This Reddish situation.

      Sounds reminiscent of his Chicago days.

      This is not at all an unfair assessment. And losing exacerbates such things. Still, I wouldn’t bet on their relationship being sour at this point.

    78. pepper:
      not sure who this dude is but this is what he had in his mock for us (left the “incinerated now AtL pick in there to stir the pot) today on ESPN:

      14. New York Knicks

      Sidy Cissoko | Baskonia | SG | Age: 17.8

      17. Atlanta Hawks (from Charlotte)

      Dillon Mitchell | Texas* | SF/PF | Age: 18.3

      18. New York Knicks (from Dallas)

      Caleb Houstan | Michigan | SF | Age: 19.0

      We never had the Dallas pick this year.

    79. tnfh I agree that Mitch is an asset and it would be lousy asset management to let him walk for nothing. I just worry about where the correct price/years point on an extension is for an oft-injured rim-runner/shot-blocker who has major holes in his game on both ends. Thankfully there is a cap on the salary we can offer him, so there’s limited risk in offering the “max,” and Noel being injured all year has made more it imperative that we do so.

    80. cybersoze: Totes, there’s no way Morey accepts this offer. Philly will get more draft capital for Simmons, and Burks is probably the best player you’re sending them. Oof.

      Yea..I forgot to add my LOL

    81. The process behind the incineration saga has really been something to behold. There was allegedly no way a pick could’ve helped us within 4 years, but Cam Reddish will within 1.5 years, but also we don’t know if/when Cam Reddish will play.

      Meanwhile plenty of players who were available at 19 are either literally already good like Dosunmu or seem well on their way to getting there like Cam Thomas.

      Sorry, but I refuse to accept that incinerating the opportunity to add a good player on a rookie-scale deal is “not a big deal in the grand scheme of things” or whatever. Teams way better than us, with way better track records than us, seem to think continuously bolstering their young core is actually kind of a big deal.

    82. Raven: Gotta push back on this. Sure it was stupid and some of the fouls were egregious, but the “brilliant” veteran basketball mind Taj Gibson fouled out, too, and Mitch hasn’t fouled out of game since who knows when, and is rarely in foul trouble these last two years. Was it a stupid move on Mitch’s part? Yeah. Sign of the Mitch Apocalypse? No.

      I give Taj more of a pass because he’s old, slow, undersized, a third stringer on a vet’s minimum deal. If we’re talking about paying Mitch $13 mill AAV for 4 years, not being able to stay on the floor in games against KAT/Embiid/Jokic/Giannis, etc. especially when your primary backup is down and your 3rd stringer is a 6’9″ 232lb converted PF is bad enough. Committing idiotic fouls 35 feet from the basket is totally inexcusable.

    83. tnfh I agree that Mitch is an asset and it would be lousy asset management to let him walk for nothing. I just worry about where the correct price/years point on an extension is for an oft-injured rim-runner/shot-blocker who has major holes in his game on both ends. Thankfully there is a cap on the salary we can offer him, so there’s limited risk in offering the “max,” and Noel being injured all year has made more it imperative that we do so.

      This is all fair, but I should note that the maximum we can offer him will be significantly higher in the offseason than it is right now. It’s the difference between extending him and signing him as a free agent.

      I could be wrong, but I believe once the extension window closes he’s eligible for a full 25% max. Obviously he will not get anything close to that, but if he finishes the season strong it’s not out of the question he gets more than the $13.5M AAV he can get via extension.

      In any event, letting him walk for nothing would be a catastrophe.

    84. My Miami Hurricanes just lost an absolute heartbreaker to FSU, but Isaiah Wong will make a team happy in the 2nd round/UDFA like Bruce Brown before him.

    85. thenoblefacehumper:
      “Incinerate” is not strong enough of a term to describe what you’ve done to a pick if you trade it for 1.5 years or Cam Reddish and then don’t play Cam Reddish

      That’s fair, if it holds up. 1.5 years is a long time, though, so I don’t how you can pass judgment right now. If Cam turns the corner next year in a big way, it could a fine return for that pick. If he has to earn playing time at first, that’s not a biggie for me.

    86. thenoblefacehumper: This is all fair, but I should note that the maximum we can offer him will be significantly higher in the offseason than it is right now. It’s the difference between extending him and signing him as a free agent.

      I could be wrong, but I believe once the extension window closes he’s eligible for a full 25% max. Obviously he will not get anything close to that, but if he finishes the season strong it’s not out of the question he gets more than the $13.5M AAV he can get via extension.

      In any event, letting him walk for nothing would be a catastrophe.

      Well $13.5M is a lot of money, so I’m not sure paying him even that is worse than letting him walk for nothing if you can replace him with someone like JaVale McGee for the minimum. And if he can get far more than that after that deadline, I’d wish him well and move on.

    87. It really has become a PG/Athletic Wing league. To me, only the very best bigs seem to be worth big money the way the game is currently played, and only ultra-mobile guys with some offensive tools beyond putbacks and lobs are worth 8-figure long term deals to me, e.g. Timelord, Capela, Allen-type guys. Mitch continues to be more promise than performance except in matchups that he clearly dominates, like the KP-less Mavs.

    88. Which topic will we let go first:
      1) Which team won the KP to Dallas trade?
      2) Why Thibs didn’t play Vildoza in the playoffs? (LOL)
      3) Is Frank Ntilikina a good basketball player?

    89. pepper: oops…that is for 2023…a little early for that…guess he has nothing better to do…

      Hahaha, i was thinking “who the hell are these guys?”

    90. Cyber, I think we’re finally all of one mind that Frank is not a good basketball player, with one holdout that he’s almost there. (In one of my only real acts of trolling I do like to drop in plus-minus examples to suggest he’s the special sauce, but it’s largely tongue in cheek.)

    91. Raven: (In one of my only real acts of trolling I do like to drop in plus-minus examples to suggest he’s the special sauce, but it’s largely tongue in cheek.)

      LOL

    92. Its hilarious to me how people here complain that the Knicks dont generate easy baskets on offense as if its so simple to get “easy” baskets.

    93. Z-man why aren’t we starting Noel over Mitch? He’s so much better on offense and Mitch gets hurt all the time.

    94. The two best players in the NBA are a fat center and Giannis, so my big takeaway is it’s a PG/wing league. It would be great if we had a really good PG or a playmaking wing who can score efficiently, but our problem writ large is we don’t have any star players at all. Our best player is one of Mitch, Rose or Alec Burks. That’s not good!

    95. DRed:
      Z-man why aren’t we starting Noel over Mitch?He’s so much better on offense and Mitch gets hurt all the time.

      Well Noel started during the best run of Knicks play since 2012-13, how are we doing with Mitch starting?

    96. BigBlueAL:
      Its hilarious to me how people here complain that the Knicks dont generate easy baskets on offense as if its so simple to get “easy” baskets.

      I’m prolly one of the “hilarious” ones you mean. I’m just suggesting they run more pick and roll with Mitch and actually pass to him. I could be wrong, but I don’t see it enough (ever?). Honestly, I’d rather watch that play fail twenty times more per game than watch some of what goes on instead. Likewise I’d rather see more failed alley oops to Obi, whether from the set offense or in transition, instead of grinding the shot clock to zero and launching a fadeaway.

    97. DRed:
      The two best players in the NBA are a fat center and Giannis, so my big takeaway is it’s a PG/wing league.It would be great if we had a really good PG or a playmaking wing who can score efficiently, but our problem writ large is we don’t have any star players at all.Our best player is one of Mitch, Rose or Alec Burks.That’s not good!

      Giannis is actually an oversized wing, as is Durant, as is AD. The team built around true centers seem to die in the playoffs year after year. Look at recent versions of finals teams: MIL, MIA, PHX, TOR, LAL, GSW…all have PGs and wings as their best players.

    98. Not sure if this will work:

      Boss Hogg Thibodeau

      i don’t smell no redneck in him birdman, i see thibs more as paul giamatti’s john adams – hard working and stubborn as hell…sadly, just not nearly as intelligent though…

      okay: knicks knicks knicks, basketball basketball basketball – holy hell though – is this weekend of american pro football starting off well…potentially best weekend of games this year…

    99. Randall Pink Floyd’s coach in Dazed and Confused and it’s guaranteed that Thibs has donned those coach’s shorts more than once in his career.

    100. Mitch shouldn’t be starting, I don’t know why we’re not playing Noel. Mitch gets hurt all the time and he stinks on offense.

    101. If Mitch Robinson was playing with Chris Paul, maybe he’d make an all-nba team and get paid $151,000,000 to rebound, block shots, and catch lobs. But he doesn’t get to have DeAndre Jordan’s life, just because he has DeAndre Jordan’s skills. He has to live his own life, which involves Elf, Burks, and Kemba’s knees.

    102. Our best player is one of Mitch, Rose or Alec Burks. That’s not good!

      This is true, and makes the situation I described upthread even worse. Not only are we mediocre and capped out, but the players most responsible for our wins are a couple of guys on the wrong side of 30 and a pending UFA.

      Hard to see the case for anything other than a major directional shift.

    103. I think how aggressively the team tries to pursue a PG at the deadline will tell us what direction we are going in for the short term. Surely they know this team isnt accomplishing anything without a quality lead guard so if they end up overpaying for a PG that means they want to make a push this year.

    104. It’s obvious … we have zero identity … our starters have zero identity … our bench does not have the same identity as it did last year … is it because we have different personnel… yes … Is it because we are now hunted instead of hunter … yes … is it because our coach is not inventive and completely rigid … yes

      Even though 75% of the team is basically same as last year, We turned over just enough key pieces… different players playing completely different roles on both units … the lineups don’t work, they aren’t competitive for long stretches. Our starters seem so outmatched sometimes … and the fact that Thibs refuses to meaningfully tinker is a massive problem … the fact that the rotations are clockwork regardless of how effective units are playing … I mean, is this a freaking joke

    105. KevinR:
      I think how aggressively the team tries to pursue a PG at the deadline will tell us what direction we are going in for the short term. Surely they know this team isnt accomplishing anything without a quality lead guard so if they end up overpaying for a PG that means they want to make a push this year.

      Whatever PG we end up getting is still gonna have to split ball handling duty with Julius Randle … I think we’re mess top down right now … every organization has cracks … I don’t think we have that many but the ones we do have are massive voids

    106. Randall Pink Floyd’s coach in Dazed and Confused and it’s guaranteed that Thibs has donned those coach’s shorts more than once in his career.

      okay, as far as i know john adams never coached basketball, ya got me there – but, whoever that was in dazed in confused wasn’t it either…thibs is like some stereotypical prussian drill instructor, ruthless, stubborn, detailed and driven – he ain’t stupid, he’s just not next level sharp, thibs needs a system…

      i can’t think of any similarly stylized fictional coach type to analogize to thibs, drawing a blank…thibs is not without humor though…

    107. We have to unload either one of Kemba or Rose at the deadline if we can get anything at all for one of them, right? At this point we don’t need two injury prone vet PGs-we can roll with the Burks/IQ combo for a bit and then just play whichever vet is left and McBride

    108. Its hilarious to me how people here complain that the Knicks dont generate easy baskets on offense as if its so simple to get “easy” baskets.

      it seems pretty simple for our opponents.

    109. We have to unload either one of Kemba or Rose at the deadline if we can get anything at all for one of them, right? At this point we don’t need two injury prone vet PGs-we can roll with the Burks/IQ combo for a bit and then just play whichever vet is left and McBride

      They really should have tried to deal Kemba as soon as he scored 44 points.

    110. I’m still disappointed that they didn’t try to lock down Mitch in the offseason. It made total sense to wait to re-sign Mitch when it looked like they could time it so that they would have max cap room and then could re-sign Randle, Mitch and extend RJ in the 2022 offseason, but then they decided to punt on 2022 cap room by signing everyone to two year deals and extending Randle early, thus meaning that they would have no cap room in 2022. So that’s when you try to extend Mitch, as well. The downside was paying a little more than Nerlens Noel to an injured Mitch which really isn’t much of a downside when you have the guy on a four-year deal for his age 24-27 seasons. So now, you’re either committing more money than the extension or you’re losing the guy for nothing. I guess you can sign and trade him. Still, the upside move was clearly giving him the extension. Even when he opened the season out of shape, that was the perfect time to try to get him to commit. Instead, they played stupid games and won, well, you know, stupid prizes.

    111. Nice little Berman hit piece on Randle went online over his media silence, even suggesting he may be quietly seeking a trade behind the scenes (doubtful). It is kind of lame though. Randle should just face the music. Now it’s a bigger deal than it should be.

    112. ess-dog:
      Nice little Berman hit piece on Randle went online over his media silence, even suggesting he may be quietly seeking a trade behind the scenes (doubtful). It is kind of lame though. Randle should just face the music. Now it’s a bigger deal than it should be.

      In his head I bet he wouldn’t mind a move elsewhere …

    113. I can’t believe any good team would take Randle. Or give us anything for Kemba. I am all for it but seems pie in the sky.

    114. two guesses for the night: moreno retains in a decision and ciryl submits ngannou…

      Ngannou answered allllllllll the critics, huh? Guess his cardio is just fine.

    115. I can’t believe any good team would take Randle. Or give us anything for Kemba. I am all for it but seems pie in the sky.

      Now that Kemba’s knees aren’t letting him play a lot, then yes, it looks to be difficult. Playing him a ton of minutes was probably not the best strategy if the goal was to deal him.

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