Knicks Morning News (2021.12.07)

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    106 thoughts to “Knicks Morning News (2021.12.07)”

    1. Athletic has a new article going into detail of how extraordinarily awful RJ has been. Lots of good info.

      The author suggests the issue might be RJ is exhausted as he’s been missing short more often. Otherwise RJ hasn’t changed too much of his game.

    2. The exhaustion is something we talked about in preseason since hes now in the Bullock role of taking the best perimeter defender every night. He started out locking down guys like Beal,Lavine, Tatum so there might be something to it.

    3. The tidbit about missing more shots short is definitely interesting but without a broader dataset it’s hard to know how much to make of that. I guess my big question is whether it’s really accurate to call it a slump or whether RJ just broadly struggles to make the ball go in the basket. Rookie year 84 eFG+; 2nd season 93 eFG+ during a season where he shot over 40% from 3 (there are like 50 players in league history who are career 40% 3 point shooters); now 89 eFG+ in his 3rd season. The fact that he started the season so hot and then has gotten so cold leads to a lot of narrativizing but it totals up to a season where he’s basically right at his career eFG+.

      That’s why I struggle with people saying “RJ will be fine”. I don’t doubt that he will revert more towards his long-term average which in this case would constitute playing significantly better than he has been over the last month. But in his case “playing like himself” isn’t really a particularly appealing proposition. We need him to still be on a dramatic upward trajectory, not simply getting back to where he was. How many times have we heard Clyde say that this was the season he expected him to make the jump to all-star status, and how far are we away from that?

    4. The good news is that RJ can play at an all-star level for multi-game stretches and has. So it’s hard to conclude that he doesn’t have that in him.

      The bad news is also has bad streaks and they go on too long and are too bad and too cold.

      So the answer is … he needs to become less streaky. Or he needs to make the cold streaks less bad and of shorter duration. I don’t believe his cold streaks are reversions of his hot streaks to some mean. His hot streaks are real.

      I have no prescription for how to become less streaky. I do think he’d be better without both Randle and Thibodeau, but it’s not as though I’m somehow wildly confident that would end the cold streaks because I’m not. I do entirely believe in his basketball character and makeup and his basketball IQ. He’s a winner. That’s obviously not enough.

    5. It’s time to recall our resident RJ tracker, Mr Djphan, from his self-imposed exile. We need some of his unique analysis. Someone throw up the bat signal or something.

    6. I’ve always been a big RJ supporter, was always impressed with his attitude and it seemed like he was a really hard worker (recent comments by Thibs notwithstanding)

      But this prolonged slump is truly alarming, and right now if a blockbuster trade opportunity came our way, he’d be pretty damaged goods. I’m not sure many GM’s are gonna look at him as a valuable trade piece.

      So right now all we can hope is that somehow he turns it around, but I don’t feel overly optimistic. If he’s not making 3’s at an above league average level, I’m not sure what else he does that makes him a legit NBA starter.

    7. @swift

      The first episode of the Beatles doc is hard to watch, so if you enjoyed it, wait till Billy Preston arrives. Also, it made a huge difference getting the fuck out of Twickenham and getting the director to shut up about Tripoli.

      The the best thing to come of watching it for me was not the talent or the work ethic or the genuine cameraderie but the innovation – they broke up before I was born, so those songs always existed as finished objects, but seeing them cohere made it clear how original they were. The riffs and construction of I Dig a Pony, for instance – it feels so natural and organic, but there was nothing like that in pop music at the time. Well worth the 8 hours for me.

      Next up, a certain podcast about Sly and the Family Stone. I hate podcasts, but that one I’ll listen to!

    8. Someone mentioned the last episode of Succession and how incredible it was. Don’t think it’s gonna be a spoiler at this point since I assume fans on this blog have already watched, but that dick pic scene might have been the most cringe worthy moment in the history of television.

      Also made me appreciate Kieran Culkin’s acting chops.

    9. I’m a Beatle fanatic, have been since I was a small child, and thought I knew every possible thing there was to know about them, so it was incredibly overwhelming to see all of that footage and to have all this new information.

      It’s amazing how little direction they had at the start of the project: they have a really short window of time to write and arrange all the material, and they show up on day one and there is no console, no tape machine, no microphones, no PA. None of this was figured out beforehand. They’re talking about loading a boat full of Beatlemaniacs and sailing to Libya, which takes three days, with zero logistics or planning having taken place and the concert like a week away.

      Nobody was managing them at the time, and it seems pretty clear that Brian Epstein’s death and the failure to adequately replace him is what ended the band. It’s remarkable how rudderless they are, how basic details of things are not taken care of. They’re a bunch of stoned 20-somethings, and the main guy trying to keep things moving (Paul) has insanely grandiose ambitions.

      The day before the rooftop concert he still thinks they’re going to learn like 10 songs that they can barely play.

    10. ***the issue might be RJ is exhausted***

      Did he have Covid? Could he be long hauling? Or maybe he has chronic fatigue syndrome, or Epstein Barr, or Narcolepsy? If otherwise healthy, though, “playing defense” is not an acceptable excuse for being too tired to make a shot since October. We’ll need a note from his Doctor.

    11. The day before the rooftop concert he still thinks they’re going to learn like 10 songs that they can barely play.

      They pretty much did, though – the 5 they did on the roof, and the 3 or 4 acoustic numbers they recorded live immediately afterward. Unreal.

    12. ***The day before the rooftop concert he still thinks they’re going to learn like 10 songs that they can barely play. They pretty much did, though – the 5 they did on the roof, and the 3 or 4 acoustic numbers they recorded live immediately afterward. Unreal.***

      How did they have the energy to do that? RJ is still tired from guarding Tatum on opening day.

    13. Yeah, Ringo especially is stoned out of his mind. My wife and I were joking about all the shots of Ringo just sitting there behind the drums, bored. We were talking about making memes of those shots saying stuff like “when you have to sit through a meeting that could have been an email” and things like that.

    14. Donnie Walsh:
      ***The day before the rooftop concert he still thinks they’re going to learn like 10 songs that they can barely play. They pretty much did, though – the 5 they did on the roof, and the 3 or 4 acoustic numbers they recorded live immediately afterward. Unreal.***

      And then didnt they go into the studio to start working on Abbey Road only like 3 weeks later? Their output of music in a short time frame is incredible

    15. John and Ringo – constantly stoned.

      George – smokes periodically but only to “expand his mind.”

      Paul – “OK, guys, i’ll have a toke. But just this once!”

    16. JK47: Nobody was managing them at the time, and it seems pretty clear that Brian Epstein’s death and the failure to adequately replace him is what ended the band. It’s remarkable how rudderless they are, how basic details of things are not taken care of. They’re a bunch of stoned 20-somethings, and the main guy trying to keep things moving (Paul) has insanely grandiose ambitions.

      Epstein’s death definitely led to a leadership scrum, and Lennon’s newfound codependency with Yoko (and heroin) certainly didn’t help. It may have been Paul’s self-assigned captainship that inspired Lennon’s rage (and George’s quiet resentment), but Lennon was about fifteen years late to get himself into psychotherapy, so the drug addiction and Yoko’s manipulation weren’t going to yield some happy outcome no matter the circumstances.

      One thing I remember vividly from the huge Spitz biography is just how terrible they were at managing money, and saying no to people. Apple Music was basically a hand-out factory. Hippies could walk in with an elevator pitch and walk out with cash. It was totally stupid.

      But it was that way before Epstein too. He signed away some merchandising rights early on that cost the Beatles tens of millions of dollars. And he also liked it when sailors and other rough sorts would take him home and rob him.

      The whole bunch of them were brilliant, petulant overgrown adolescents, except for Ringo. He was a saint.

    17. if the change is mitch for nerlens it would be a slightly weird game to do it since poeltl is a better mitch matchup

    18. Allen Klein was a nightmare for the Beatles and the whole industry but was a knee-jerk reaction from John and the rest not wanting Paul’s father-in-law to manage the band (which probably would have been better, ironically).

      It was a tough position to be in, but they should’ve done a lot more research before hiring Klein.

    19. Glyn Johns tries to warn Lennon about Allen Klein. Glyn clearly sees through Klein’s bullshit, but Lennon falls for it hook, line, and sinker.

      Lennon was not a great judge of character. He loved Phil Spector too.

    20. Hubert:
      It’s time to recall our resident RJ tracker, Mr Djphan, from his self-imposed exile. We need some of his unique analysis. Someone throw up the bat signal or something.

      If RJ improves at this, this, this and this, he’ll be Paul Pierce. There, fixed it.

    21. Shams says the Pacers are gonna rebuild and are open to trading Lavert and either one of the big men. Sabonis seems redundant with Randle (though an argument could be made that he’s the better player). Turner is better than any of our centers but still feels wildly overpaid. Would Lavert instantly be our best wing player?

    22. I’m skeptical on Dame to begin with, but this especially has me worried:

      The most complicating factor in Portland’s GM search: Damian Lillard’s desire to be extended and become the NBA’s highest-paid player in his mid-30’s.

    23. More from the above-linked story:

      Lillard wants a two-year, $107 million extension in July, and he and his agent need the next general manager to sell ownership on the idea. As much as anything, this cuts to the core of the Blazers’ search process. His desire for an extension into his advanced NBA years has turned into a battle for the franchise’s future, an existential threat to reshaping and redirecting the organization in a post-playoff reality.

    24. @wojespn
      Pacers guard TJ McConnell had surgery to repair torn ligaments in his right hand and is expected to miss several months, sources tell ESPN. McConnell could be lost for the rest of the season.

      Pacers blowing it up could be a real thing. They arent making the playoffs with this team

    25. Jeez, never mind. LeVert has never really even been average, and he’s already 28. I guess a Turner trade would be ok, but I wouldn’t do it for Obi, who could end up being a better offensive player. And Indy probably won’t want Mitch. That leaves a trade centered around RJ or Quickley, and we already lack good guard play as it is.

      Also, Lillard’s numbers are atrocious this season. He’s too close to the cliff to trade for IMO.

      I would rather just roll with the guys we have… maybe trade the Fournier mistake for a shorter contract or a disgruntled PG at most. I’m liking the next draft and we could easily have two decent firsts in it.

    26. ess-dog:
      RJ, Knox, Toppin, Kemba, and two firsts for Turner and LeVert.

      This leaves us with

      PG ??????
      SG Fournier
      SF LeVert
      PF Randle
      C Turner

      Bench
      PG Rose
      SG Quickley
      SF Burks
      PF ???????
      C Noel

      That still seems like an extremely mediocre team. If you take two mediocre teams and swap around their mediocre pieces, you’re left with slightly rearranged mediocrity.

    27. @JCMacriNBA
      Article notes that the Knicks never made an offer for Lillard over the summer.

      More importantly, Woj strapped many sticks of dynamite to any notion that Lillard’s whole “Blazer for life” routine was anything more than positioning for a cash grab. This is SCATHING.

    28. Alan:
      I’m skeptical on Dame to begin with, but this especially has me worried:

      yea feels like a moderately hard pass… since dame doesnt get us there on his own after the gut… we’d need an additional gut for another guy… talk about gutted with no guarantees…

    29. Dame would come with opportunity cost. If we’re going to put together some sort of Godfather offer for a franchise player, we could probably do better.

    30. Pacers claim they’re ready to rebuild and trade one of their 2 bigs every year. Not sure if that’s sincere or just testing the waters to see if anyone wants to overpay.

      My take on Caris Levert is he’s a 6’6″ version of Elfrid Plagueton, but with fewer assists and rebounds.

      Would still love either Sabonis or Turner.

    31. Still early in the season but Turner looks like hes finally turned into the stretch 5 needed to keep defenses honest. Also Thibs comments about every team having a stretch 5 so I’m sure Leon will be on the phone soon for him.

    32. Trading for Lillard is pointless and at the kind of numbers he’s agitating for, a non-starter. Simmons is a way better idea.

    33. @BobbyMarks42
      Here is what a Damian Lillard extension would like next offseason:

      Current

      2021/22-$39.3M
      2022/23-$42.5M
      2023/24- $45.6M
      2024/25- $48.8M

      Extension

      2025/26-$51.2M
      2026/27-$55.3M

      The same extension is available (after 6 mos.) in a scenario where Lillard is traded.

    34. Nothing confirmed but there were rumors Simmons isnt even vaccinated so thats potentially a non starter.

    35. @SBondyNYDN
      Mitchell Robinson acknowledged his conditioning is still an issue:

      “I’m getting tired real quick. I run for about six or seven minutes, and then boom — I’m gassed. So it’s something I need to work on real bad.”

      What was issue against Jokic?

      “Just be in better shape.”

      @SBondyNYDN
      Robinson said he’s down to 265 pounds after starting training camp at 280.

      If he’s removed from lineup, Robinson said, “I wouldn’t react. I’d just go out and play hard.”

    36. That sounds about right Swift we can throw in some of our extra seconds as well. I imagine the market for Myles will be pretty competitive tho every team wants a stretch 5.

    37. I don’t care what the data says, if it disagrees, it’s not measuring something correctly.

      RJ is missing some shots he should be making, but he’s also taking shots this year he wouldn’t have taken last year. He’s taking 3s this year where he’s clearly defended well enough that he personally should probably pass, but he puts them up anyway. There are guys around the league that can take those shots, but RJ is not one of them (at least at this stage and based on last year).

      One of the goals of the off season was to expand his ability to shoot off the dribble, go right etc.. So maybe that’s part of what he’s trying to do, but some of his misses are clearly not the same quality shots he was taking last year.

      That was to be expected.

      Last year they were leaving him open at times because his reputation was that he was a poor shooter. If you start making some of them (like he did), they are going to start taking the highest quality ones away. That’s why you try to expand you game to begin with. If they start taking one thing away you have to be able to do something else really well.

      I think some of the problem is random noise, some of it is mental, and some of it is shot quality. Just give it time. He’ll get his head right and hopefully grow into a more complete player that can shoot off the bounce, go right, take contact against SFs and still finish etc.. He’s a kid going through a rough patch. No one ever said he was going to be a franchise player at 21. We are hoping he can be an all star caliber player at 25-26.

    38. Not straightforward to get to Myles’s cap$ without including one of the bigger-salaried players, such as one or more of RJ, Obi, Burks, Noel in addition to presumably Mitch + picks + one of the rookies. I am presuming also that Indiana does not want Fournier.

    39. Is it any shock that Mitch is admitting he’s not 100% fit?

      He missed a TON of time. It takes quite awhile to get back to 100% under perfect circumstances, but when you are in and out of the lineup every other game it keeps setting you back both from a fitness perspective and skill perspective. If he could ever get healthy and stay healthy he’ll start making forward progress. He’s basically KP but with foot, ankle, hand etc.. issues instead of knee issues.

    40. Myles Turner would be an excellent fit next to Randle. Randle could be less of a stretch PF and get to the basket more often and easier. It’s a matter of the price.

    41. Dame is pointless.

      I don’t care about giving up picks for the right player, but he’s 31, not a defender, and we’d probably have to give up some quality players to go along with the picks. When the dust settled we wouldn’t be good enough, we’d have a tight widow, and we would have traded away our future to some degree. I’d love to have him, but I can’t see a way it can happen and make sense.

    42. 55 of RJs last 58 attempted 3s have been considered open. Hes shooting 21.8% on the open shots. He’s 0-10 from the left corner and 4-23 from the right.

      Coming into the NBA RJ had a rep as a non-shooter. Maybe the rep was right. Maybe he’s just in a prolific slump. But it’s ugly and he doesn’t belong on an NBA court right now.

      Also, RJ is so bad inside the arc that he needs to shoot 40%+ to be slightly below average scoring the ball, as last year demonstrated.

      Hope he goes on a prolonged hot streak but last year looks like a fluke.

    43. Myles would be such a boon for Julius if we are serious about building around him it makes a lot of sense.

    44. Not straightforward to get to Myles’s cap$ without including one of the bigger-salaried players, such as one or more of RJ, Obi, Burks, Noel in addition to presumably Mitch + picks + one of the rookies. I am presuming also that Indiana does not want Fournier.

      Knox’s salary plus Kemba’s gets you to 14.5 million. Add in Mitch, and you’re more or less in range of the salary rules for trades. (I can’t try it on the trade machine because Kemba’s not eligible to be moved for another eight days.) The question is what kind of assets Indiana would want for Turner, because other than maybe Mitch, all those guys are essentially salary filler. Also, I don’t know if Kemba would be any happier in Indiana, since they have Brogdon and McConnell already at PG.

    45. Mcconell might be out for for the season so Kemba may be happy to get some playing time at least in Indy

    46. I don’t care what the data says

      Honestly, you don’t care what anyone or anything says if it conflicts with your gut. Just be straight about it.

    47. If you’re going to ask me
      RJ’s shot is gone as you can see
      I don’t know just who to blame for this catastrophe
      But my one wish on Christmas Eve is as plain as can be

      All I want for Christmas is RJ to learn to drive to the right…

    48. Turner is interesting, but I’m not sure his shot is for real. He’s a very good defender, but if he’s shooting 34% from 3 he’s giving a lot of it back on offense. This year he’s shooting 39% and he’s a really nice player. Last year he was shooting 33% and he wasn’t.

    49. The numbers in Dame’s extensions are crazy,
      I love him but if he’s expecting this kind of money he can finish his career in Portland,
      the price will be painful and the money absurd.
      Hard pass.

    50. Turner’s game logs are mixed, he already has 9 single-digit games and one 40 points one…
      He’s not exactly “steady” but he can be a significant upgrade on offense compared to Mitch and Noel…
      I don’t think he’ll come away cheap…

    51. Well last year RJ did have a little mini-slump before he took off. So maybe he’s about to take off even higher because he’s a peaks and valleys type of player?

      There’s a lot to theorize about with what is going on with RJ. But I do think its fair to say that progress isn’t always a neat straight line up with young players. They can take leap forwards and then stumble back before leaping forward again. Especially if they’re trying to add new things to their game (whether that’s being asked to take on a harder defensive assignment every night or shoot different types of 3’s). And struggling in one area of the game can have a cascading effect on other areas of your game because the mental aspect of basketball is important.

      Someone can be a 90 percent free throw shooter but if they’re missing their shots in a game that might affect their free throw shooting in the game too. Or they could be clanking shots, go to the line, hit some free throws and now they start hitting shots in the game cause they gained confidence. Clyde often says that sometimes a player just needs to see the ball go through the hoop. So if the increased defensive assignment is too much for RJ, it could affect his offense. Saying he’s tired or worn out isn’t exactly correct I think. Although he was sick recently. Maybe this time off from being sick will actually be good for him?

      Nick Anderson missed 4 free throws in game one of the NBA Finals and was never the same player after that.

    52. I’m the biggest Lillard guy here, and even at the prices tossed around don’t have a problem. But, if Myles Turner is the consolation prize, that’s cool too. Either of those guys would be exciting and both are better than anybody on the current roster.

    53. Why would Kemba’s happiness be a factor?

      Because Leon prizes himself on being a Relationships Guy, and it’s bad optics if you bring a beloved NBA player back to his hometown, and then a few months later ship him off somewhere he really doesn’t want to be.

    54. Tyreke Evans is applying for reinstatement. It would seem wrong for his career to end without ever being a Knick. That always seemed like his destiny.

    55. Brian Cronin: Tyreke Evans is applying for reinstatement. It would seem wrong for his career to end without ever being a Knick. That always seemed like his destiny.

      Dude must be flat broke.

      Donnie Walsh:
      Tyreke Evans was banned from the NBA? For what? Performance un-enhancing drugs?

      Coke, IIRC. He either partied at the exact wrong time (with a 48h testing window) or had a serious problem.

    56. The Honorable Cock Jowles: Honestly, you don’t care what anyone or anything says if it conflicts with your gut. Just be straight about it.

      I only care about reality.

      Stats are an attempt to capture reality better than observation, but they have weaknesses and are open to interpretive error. So I consider them more a tool than actual reality. We can sometimes see subtle things the stats are not capturing correctly. So watching is also a tool. Without looking at the stats (and they may even support this), this year I see RJ rushing more tough, slightly off balance, and other 3s I’m not so thrilled about. He’s also seems to be getting fewer wide open, set you feet, take your time from a good spot, 3s where I am screaming at the TV “there it is”. So while his 3p% is down a lot, I don’t think it’s all shooting.

      Edit: The data and my observations told me that Nepo was very prone to blunders and playing too fast under pressure. So I laid a price and made my first ever bet on a chess game and took Magnus. The data and my observations seem right. lol

    57. Early Bird: 55 of RJs last 58 attempted 3s have been considered open. Hes shooting 21.8% on the open shots. He’s 0-10 from the left corner and 4-23 from the right.

      Deeefense!!: He’s also seems to be getting fewer wide open, set you feet, take your time from a good spot, 3s where I am screaming at the TV “there it is”. So while his 3p% is down a lot, I don’t think it’s all shooting.

      Only one of you guys is right, i wonder who that is?

    58. You all know i’m a fan of Myles Turner, so count me in on a deal to get him. But i also have interest in Brogdon, despite the 4 year contract*. My kingdom for a PG! LOL
      * – maybe offloading Fournier (one long contract for another) and Kemba+Selden (salary match), getting also TJ Warren to replace Fournier.

    59. Early Bird:
      55 of RJs last 58 attempted 3s have been considered open. Hes shooting 21.8% on the open shots. He’s 0-10 from the left corner and 4-23 from the right.

      I don’t doubt that’s what the data says, but imo there’s no way that’s correct in terms of describing his shot quality relative to last year. High quality is not just a matter how many feet a player is away from you. It’s a matter of having your feet set, how much time you have, whether someone is closing out on you fast and you see the pressure coming, whether you dribbled first, etc.. He’s probably had three 3s in a single game I didn’t particularly like.

      I agree with the rest of what you said.

    60. cybersoze:
      Only one of you guys is right, i wonder who that is?

      We are both correct.

      The data describes a set of conditions and accumulates stats.

      The set of conditions does not fully capture all the relevant details on the difficulty of the shot attempt for that player.

    61. Even if you concede that it’s true that RJ is trying to take some harder shots and he’s missing all of them, A. that doesn’t really fully explain the fact that he’s not making anything right now, and B. he’s supposed to be getting better! The fact that trying to add something to his game has gone so miserably seems like inarguably a really bad sign, even if it makes it more likely he can get back to being the mediocre player he was before. “Nothing to worry about, as long as RJ never tries to shoot off the dribble or take an even marginally difficult shot he can stay within 5-10% of league average efficiency.” That’s supposed to be comforting?

    62. ***Lillard will be 36 making $55.3M. Hard pass.***

      I understand the pass, but perhaps I can soften it a bit?

      Back in September of 2018, Woj reported that Jimmy Butler had requested a trade to the Knicks. The hive-mind here (everybody except me, I think) agreed that trading for Butler was dumb because he was “old”, he was “expensive”, he would “cost to many assets” and he “didn’t fit the win curve”. All those reasons were sound, but he subsequently went on to play the best basketball of his career AFTER he turned 30, and let his team to the NBA finals.

      Butler wouldn’t have brought the Knicks a championship. But he would have made the team infinitely more interesting, and I don’t see how the team would be worse off today if they had gotten that bird in their hand. And Lillard and Butler share similar traits that made Butler a good bet to age well: fitness, intelligence, coachability, passion, and, importantly, they are both with less mileage than others their age because they came into the league older.

    63. RJ shooting that poorly on open 3s is probably a reason or optimism because it’s likely he’ll stop being that terrible

    64. thenamestsam:
      Even if you concede that it’s true that RJ is trying to take some harder shots and he’s missing all of them, A. that doesn’t really fully explain the fact that he’s not making anything right now, and B. he’s supposed to be getting better! The fact that trying to add something to his game has gone so miserably seems like inarguably a really bad sign, even if it makes it more likely he can get back to being the mediocre player he was before. “Nothing to worry about,as long as RJ never tries to shoot off the dribble or take an even marginally difficult shot he can stay within 5-10% of league average efficiency.” That’s supposed to be comforting?

      I didn’t say I was happy about any of this. :-)

      All I’m trying to do is temper the gloom by pointing out I believe he’s been trying to expand his game a little or he’s trying to keep his shot volume up even though there’s more offensive power on the court. It’s not working well at all. On top of that when you are going as badly as he is, it can become a problem mentally. I think he’ll be fine. I’m not panicking yet just because he’s off to a disappointing start. He had a few game stretch where he looked like a budding star and I probably overreacted to the upside. I’m trying to not make the same mistake.

    65. forget getting together to watch a knicks’ game, seems like it would have been a bunch of fun to get together to watch ‘get back’…

      right now i’m paused just after ringo says he wants to go up on the roof…very touching to see’s paul’s entire demeanor change…he was hella nervous and didn’t wanna do anything live at that moment…the two george’s (what a dick george martin was, that “uncouth” comment should have got him hit with some flying some thing) and john had already talked him in to it, but – ringo saying that’s what he wanted to do got him in to it…very touching…

      i can’t believe no one’s mentioned it yet but – what a freaking nightmare yoko ono’s voice is – holy cow, she sounds scary, and super annoying, very “supportive” though…

      oh yeah, definitely developed a man-crush on john during the doc…

    66. RJ Barett

      At Duke: couldn’t shoot
      NBA Rookie: couldn’t shoot
      NBA Sophomore: could kinda shoot
      This year: can’t shoot

      Which is the outlier?

    67. took me a while to figure out who the heck richard starkey was…

      biggest takeaway to date – the beatles were the greatest cover band ever…

      too funny, i’m already thinking about re-watching the whole thing…i have a feeling i’m gonna be watching this thing more than a few times…

    68. JK47:
      RJ Barett

      At Duke: couldn’t shoot
      NBA Rookie: couldn’t shoot
      NBA Sophomore: could kinda shoot
      This year: can’t shoot

      Which is the outlier?

      We know which is the outlier, but we also know he’s very young and improved his FT shooting where defense and shot selection are not a factor. So why not wait and see if he turns it around before pushing the panic button?

      People (including myself of course) tend to overreact to recent events.

    69. The film doesn’t really address it, but the Beatles kind of screwed George Martin over on the “Let It Be” project. He had always been their producer, and then for this record he was basically in the back seat as Glyn Johns took over. George Martin was pretty hurt about it, but because he’s very British and never shows his emotions he didn’t ever talk about it much. It was an extra insult because the studio world was very hierarchical at that time, and Glyn Johns was a mere “engineer” and not a “producer.” It was unheard of for a lowly engineer to produce such a prestige project. So there was some politics with that as well.

      Glyn Johns is a legend in his own right, but I thought he seemed a bit intimidated by the Beatles, and didn’t give them a lot of direction. George Martin’s role in the project really wasn’t very clear, so as a result George Martin didn’t get involved a whole lot. He’d sit around and read the newspaper most of the time.

    70. So why not wait and see if he turns it around before pushing the panic button?

      I mean, I agree. He should be given every chance to get it going and I’m against demoting him to the bench or cutting his minutes or whatever.

      Still. Pretty disconcerting. Makes you think the empty arenas were maybe a factor.

    71. I haven’t seen any of the Beatles film yet, but my earliest memory is my father bringing home the original 45s and 33s from the record store near the shoe store he worked at. He used to swap shoes for records. lol I still have all of them, but they are badly scratched and some of the 45s don’t have the original packaging. I was a young kid.

      The one thing I learned over the years is that George was a better guitarist than I gave him credit for in my teens and 20s. Each generation learns from the previous and expands. So it’s hard to make comparisons. But when I look back at some of his guitar work now, I love some of his note selection and playing way more than I used to. I had the same experience with BB king. I appreciate his playing way more now than I did in my teens and 20s.

    72. If the 2nd big starting lineup chg is Noel for Mitch, well that’s quite ……underwhelming

    73. All I’m trying to do is temper the gloom by pointing out I believe he’s been trying to expand his game a little or he’s trying to keep his shot volume up even though there’s more offensive power on the court. It’s not working well at all. On top of that when you are going as badly as he is, it can become a problem mentally. I think he’ll be fine.

      I guess my first question is how you’re bridging the gap from “he’s trying to expand his game and it has gone disastrously, plus that disaster has affected him mentally which has compounded the problem” to “I think he’ll be fine”. Nothing about that sounds fine to me.

      My second question is what “fine” means in this context. Getting back to hitting the occasional open 3 and making some layups would certainly constitute a nice return to form when compared to being the worst player in the league for a 20 game stretch but I’m not sure I’d call it fine for a #3 pick in his third season who’s going to be highly paid starting next season.

    74. I am way more worried about a Julius regression than an RJ regression. A million things could be going on with RJ…the new ball, a bit of bravado, new teammates, higher expectations…but he’s young enough to be patient with and there’s no long-term commitment yet. With Julius, his new contract was signed on the basis of him being at least reasonably efficient from 3, but he has been bad enough that defenders are daring him to drive, making it harder for him to get a step.

    75. Yeah, swapping Mitch for Noel would be a bizarre change, to say the very least. A funny joke I saw on Twitter about it was “When your car breaks down so you swap out the air freshener hanging from the rear view mirror.”

    76. I mean, if the Pacers are really looking to rebuild, and we’re looking to compete/overhaul:

      Sabonis or Turner and Brogdon works in the trade machine for RJ/Knox/Mitch/Nerlens/Kemba plus whatever picks we would need.

      a 10 man rotation of:
      Brogdon/Burks/Fournier/Randle/Sabonis or Turner
      Rose/IQ/Grimes/Obi/Taj or Sims

      is pretty good! Maybe you don’t think Grimes is ready, in which case maybe you unload some 2nds to go for someone like Kenrich Williams/another SF. But in any case I’m pretty out on RJ at this point, So this would be something I would think about. This would knock us out of the 2023 sweepstakes, which shouldn’t matter, since to pin all of our hopes on 2023 is dumb anyway (and the players we’d be acquiring are actually moveable, because they’re good at basketball). How many picks would this cost? 2 firsts and one second?

      People might balk at this proposal, but I really don’t see a better move to make other than dismantling this team. And tanking is out of the question given Rose’s MO. We’d be getting by far the better players in a trade that fill actual positions of need for us, for the cost of some picks and RJ. I think I’d pull the trigger.

    77. I guess my first question is how you’re bridging the gap from “he’s trying to expand his game and it has gone disastrously, plus that disaster has affected him mentally which has compounded the problem” to “I think he’ll be fine”. Nothing about that sounds fine to me.

      My second question is what “fine” means in this context. Getting back to hitting the occasional open 3 and making some layups would certainly constitute a nice return to form when compared to being the worst player in the league for a 20 game stretch but I’m not sure I’d call it fine for a #3 pick in his third season who’s going to be highly paid starting next season.

      1. Mentally, all he needs is a couple of good games and his confidence will return. The shot selection is a choice. He can get more conservative tonight. As far as expanding his game goes, it was always going to be a multi year process. It’s hard to think in terms of the type of player he can be at 25 or 26 when we want to win games now, but it’s going to take a long time for him to reach whatever his peak is ultimately going to be.

      2. I think he still has a chance to be an all star caliber player eventually. Someone mentioned Paul Pierce in dismissive terms. I’d take Paul Pierce in a heartbeat. We’ll be lucky if he’s that good eventually.

    78. “I’d take Paul Pierce in a heartbeat. We’ll be lucky if he’s that good eventually.”

      with all due respect to DJ Phan…the closest RJ will be to mirroring Paul Pierce is he might get into one of those viral videos doing lines on a stripper’s belly…but on the basketball court…uh…I don’t think so…paul pierce is going into the hall of fame…rj ain’t going there…

    79. The one thing I learned over the years is that George was a better guitarist than I gave him credit for in my teens and 20s.

      He’s one of my favorite guitarists ever.

      Remember, he’s younger than the other guys. He had just turned 21 when The Beatles played Ed Sullivan, and he was just shy of his 26th birthday when they did the Let It Be project. Most of his years developing as a guitar player, like really growing as a player, were spent in the studio. So he learned to play guitar in the context of making records, not so much in the context of playing live. He did the latter too, of course, but what I love is how George always just came up with the right part for the song. Most of my favorite guitar players are similar players, guys who just know how to play on a record: Lindsey Buckingham, Rick Nielsen, Johnny Marr, Mike Campbell.

      Another interesting thing about George is that he didn’t develop his signature weeping slide guitar style (think “My Sweet Lord”) until AFTER he had left The Beatles.

    80. All i got to say is that the Charlie Ward curse is real. In the beginning of the season i was 99% sure RJ would end the curse, but here we are…

    81. awwwww, thank you so much for sharing jk :)

      how crazy is it for a band to still come out looking that crazy cool, musically at least, although the furs looked pretty comfy, some fifty years later…

      just wondering – about how many songs do you have in your head that you can play jk?

    82. I think Barrett might be like Wiggins. Wiggins was overpaid and underperformed but us now filling a nice niche on the Warriors.

    83. Noel might be better than Mitch but since they essentially split minutes at center when they’re both healthy it’s not apparent one of them starting over the other has been what’s wrong with the team

    84. I don’t think the Pacers can trade Brogdon this season since they just extended him, so to the extent we engage them it will probably be for Turner. Naturally his value is likely at an all-time high.

      It’s worth wondering what exactly we’d be doing trading future assets to the Pacers, who are rightfully acknowledging it’s time to rebuild despite a pythagorean record of 14-12. Ours is 11-12 and I’m not sure how much Turner minus whoever we’d have to send out from our current roster changes that.

      Anyway, I think Knox, Obi, Mitch, and some small random salary like Selden’s works salary wise for Turner. Since Mitch is a pending UFA, I think we’d need to throw a future first in there too. I would also say that’s more or less the over/under for a Turner package. We might prefer to include a future pick(s) instead of Obi and could try to negotiate for that too.

      Where do we stand on that?

      Someone mentioned Paul Pierce in dismissive terms. I’d take Paul Pierce in a heartbeat. We’ll be lucky if he’s that good eventually.

      I am assuming they were dismissive of the possibility RJ Barrett would be as good as Paul Pierce. There’s not a Knicks fan in the world who wouldn’t sign up for that insanely good outcome.

      You’re not wrong that RJ is taking some more difficult shots, but as others have pointed out you’re wrong that that’s a significant reason he’s been struggling. He is missing everything–spot up, step back, you name it.

    85. i also have interest in Brogdon, despite the 4 year contract*. My kingdom for a PG! LOL
      * – maybe offloading Fournier (one long contract for another) and Kemba+Selden (salary match), getting also TJ Warren to replace Fournier.

      brogdon seems to have recovered well from his injury, i like his game, he would play well with julius, who plays a bit like sabonis…then again, the pacers aren’t that great a team right now either…i wonder what it would cost?

    86. @ShamsCharania
      Trail Blazers guard CJ McCollum has a pneumothorax (collapsed right lung) and will be further evaluated, team says.

    87. The Pacers can’t trade Brogdon until next season because he signed a 2 year extension, so if he’s moved iy will be on the off-season. It’s certainly going to be whoever gets the best offer out of Turner and Sabonis, and LeVert if they somehow can leverage some other sucker to believe the random hype that was generated around him for nothing.

      I hope we don’t come even close to LeVert but I’d be very open to either Turner or Sabonis at the right price. Turner is a great fit, Sabonis is a very very good player on a great contract, so I’m fine with either to be honest.

    88. Sir Charles is going after KP, saying that he plays hard 2 out of every 6 games. Lol.

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