Knicks Morning News (2021.10.25)

  • New York Knicks to host Philadelphia 76ers Tuesday – WBNG.com
    [wbng.com] — Monday, October 25, 2021 3:16:16 AM

    New York Knicks to host Philadelphia 76ers Tuesday  WBNG.com

  • Knicks Mitchell Robinson briefly exits after tweaking right ankle – New York Post
    [nypost.com] — Sunday, October 24, 2021 11:31:00 PM

    Knicks Mitchell Robinson briefly exits after tweaking right ankle  New York Post

  • Magic Get Revenge, Beat Knicks at MSG – OrlandoMagic.com
    [www.nba.com] — Sunday, October 24, 2021 10:41:24 PM

    Magic Get Revenge, Beat Knicks at MSG  OrlandoMagic.com

  • Knicks stunned by lowly Magic for first loss of season – New York Post
    [nypost.com] — Sunday, October 24, 2021 9:53:00 PM

    Knicks stunned by lowly Magic for first loss of season  New York Post Knicks takeaways from Sunday’s 110-104 loss to Magic, including rough night from three  Yahoo SportsMagic 110, Knicks 104: Scenes from the revenge of Terrence Ross  Posting and ToastingRobinson gets injury scare but seems OK  NewsdayHow to watch Knicks vs. Magic: NBA live stream info, TV channel, time, game odds  CBS SportsView Full Coverage on Google News

  • Orlando 110, N.Y. Knicks 104 – New Haven Register
    [www.nhregister.com] — Sunday, October 24, 2021 9:52:50 PM

    Orlando 110, N.Y. Knicks 104  New Haven Register

  • How to watch Knicks vs. Magic: NBA live stream info, TV channel, time, game odds – CBS Sports
    [www.cbssports.com] — Sunday, October 24, 2021 9:00:23 PM

    How to watch Knicks vs. Magic: NBA live stream info, TV channel, time, game odds  CBS SportsOrlando Magic at New York Knicks: Game Preview  OrlandoMagic.comOrlando Magic at New York Knicks (Oct. 24, 2021): 3 Things To Watch, Odds and Prediction  Orlando Magic DailyKnicks vs. Magic – Game Recap – October 22, 2021  ESPNGame stream: New York Knicks vs. Orlando Magic  Hoops HypeView Full Coverage on Google News

  • Immanuel Quickley working to avoid potentially diminished Knicks role – New York Post
    [nypost.com] — Sunday, October 24, 2021 8:18:00 PM

    Immanuel Quickley working to avoid potentially diminished Knicks role  New York Post New York Notes: Uptempo Knicks, Quickley, Irving, Nash  hoopsrumors.comKnicks news: Tom Thibodeau drops huge Julius Randle truth bomb  ClutchPointsTom Thibodeau is exactly what New York has been waiting for  New York Daily NewsNew York Knicks Star Fined After Win Over Celtics  Heavy.comView Full Coverage on Google News

  • High-flying Knicks hope to continue 3-point barrage – New York Daily News
    [www.nydailynews.com] — Sunday, October 24, 2021 6:36:00 PM

    High-flying Knicks hope to continue 3-point barrage  New York Daily News

  • How to Watch New York Knicks vs. Orlando Magic: Live Stream, TV Channel, Start Time – Sports Illustrated
    [www.si.com] — Sunday, October 24, 2021 5:00:00 PM

    How to Watch New York Knicks vs. Orlando Magic: Live Stream, TV Channel, Start Time  Sports Illustrated

  • B/R has NY Knicks in the 2022 NBA Draft lottery, selecting Dyson Daniels – Daily Knicks
    [dailyknicks.com] — Sunday, October 24, 2021 2:00:00 PM

    B/R has NY Knicks in the 2022 NBA Draft lottery, selecting Dyson Daniels  Daily Knicks

  • NY Knicks: The 3 biggest strengths of the Knicks’ roster – Daily Knicks
    [dailyknicks.com] — Sunday, October 24, 2021 10:00:00 AM

    NY Knicks: The 3 biggest strengths of the Knicks’ roster  Daily Knicks

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    76 thoughts to “Knicks Morning News (2021.10.25)”

    1. 1. The Knicks probably came into the game a little overconfident.

      2. Orlando was moving the ball and playing better defense.

      3. When the Knicks got behind they weren’t just shooting high quality open 3s in transition, off a kick out, or off excellent ball movement. They were also hoisting up some garbage trying to stay in the game or get back into it. That made matters worse.

      4. Live by the 3, die by the 3. Either get quality 3s or don’t take them.

      5. I’m starting to think if Randle played with Curry and Durant he’d still drive into brick walls and make foolish passes more often than he should.

    2. Regarding Kemba. Far from ideal but far from very bad. I rather a semi-cooked Kemba rather than a sharp but serious injury prone Kemba at this point of the season (I will ignore the possibility that he is both semi-cooked and seriously injury-prone otherwise my logic starts falling apart). My worst case was that Kemba would get injured in training camp or just be visibly limping. What I have seen is a step slower and no lift version of his Charlotte days. If this is the Kemba we have I think we are deep enough to make the proper line up and minute adjustments.

      I am sure as the season progresses I will worry about many things but after 3 games the only thing I am a bit worried about is the FT shooting %.

    3. Just like I didn’t get too high on the first 2 wins, I’m not gonna get too low on this loss. Though we didn’t play to our standards, last season we were the type of team that usually beat the teams we were supposed to. So once the kinks are worked out, I expect the team to continue that trend.

      By “kinks”, I mean:
      1. Getting used to having Kemba and Fournier
      2. Re-integrating the new Mitch
      3. Quickley and RJ finding their shots. RJ started last season this way and found his way, so I’m less worried about him.
      4. Getting Noel back

      The only real complaint I have about last night(apart from the loss) is the team didn’t trust the ball movement all night. Maybe we underestimated Orlando. Maybe we overestimated ourselves because we had just blown them out. Whatever the case may be- they came ready to play. And Cole Anthony was UNCONSCIOUS, as was Ross in the 4th. I think it’s good for our Knicks to have this type of loss early and while we’re still working the kinks out. I am worried for Mitch though. 3 straight games he had me TERRIFIED. Shit! I almost shed a tear when I saw how he reacted when he thought he hurt his foot. I was shook lol. Glad he’s up though.

      We’ll play better against Philly. Big barometer for Mitch. I can’t wait

    4. Carmelo had a night. Saved the Lakers from 0-3. 28 points on 15 shots is no joke. The Grizzlies bench got absolutely shellacked.

      Tyrese had an interesting line. 8 points on 9 shots, 7 boards, 9 assists. Davion had a breakout night, 22 points on 17 true shots but negative 14.

    5. The are 3 lousy teams in the Easy: Detroit, Cleveland, Orlando.
      If you shoot for a good spot, or even for just a postseason spot, you need to crush these teams in every game.
      Yesterday game was embarrassing, as Thibs’ disgusted face showed post game, and will cost us at the end of the year, when we’ll be fighting to avoid the play in or to get home advantage.

      Underestimate the opponent, feel entitled, playing stupid iso-ball, stop moving the ball… last year team lost games like this in the pre-DRose era (a drubbing at home by OKC and a massacre in Charlotte stood out in my memory), and it’s not a solace for me to think it happened before.

      The next game will be a good litmus test about the ability of this group to learn from mistakes.

    6. I think the Cavs might be decent. Mobley looks legit, they should be able to play good defense with him and Allen upfront

    7. It sucks we lost but in the NBA even the absolute worst teams can beat anyone on any given night. They were embarrassed a few days before and came out ready to play. We took them for granted and let them hang around and didn’t play the way we should play.

    8. We’ve been one of the awful teams for most of the last 20 years, and there have been nights in those dark years where we have come out and smoked far better teams than the 2021-22 Knicks are looking to be. It happens, especially on the back end of a home-and-home, especially when the Magic were so humiliated in their home arena on Friday night.

      There are things to be concerned about, particularly the offense’s tendency to ditch the ball movement and resort to Randle heroball isolations when things aren’t going well. But I figured we would probably split one of these two. It sucks, but it’s not a season-ruiner. We’ll have games this season where we beat an elite team like Milwaukee, and things will balance out.

    9. My grades:

      Rose B
      The spark of every good stretch. This “D-Rose with an outside shot” model is very nice, I’m worried he’s forced to play too much now.

      Mitchell B
      Every time he falls we keep our breath, he’s showing his importance, needs to hit FTs asap and learn to play with Kemba more.

      Burks C-
      Line drives went foul a lot. Somehow plus-2 for the game.

      Randle C-
      Stuffed the boxscore as usual, doesn’t seems ready to yield the scepter of power in favor of a better ball movement. We’re at our best when the ball moves, Sticky Fingers is only good when played by the Stones.

      Barrett D
      1-12 from 3 in the last two games, eerily similar, close to a carbon copy, to the uninspired RJ that started last year so bad. And this time it wasn’t because of his effort on D. Expected to come back soon.

      Fournier C-
      Started well, lost rythm to Randle’s Isos, clunked everything in the second half.

      Walker D
      Another one lost in the shuffle. He’s a liability on D, can give us a pnr-pull up dimension that we didn’t have last year but is clear that the team is not accustomed to have one.

      Toppin D
      Bad game for laying an egg. We didn’t run enough to activate him and he missed (badly) from deep.

      Quickley F
      Was the game in Orlando a flash in the pan? This version is detrimental to the team and I’d rather have Deuce play, at least he’s not a zero on defense. From surprise to competent to worrysome to trade fodder? Really needs to wake up.

      Gibson D
      Excused for personal reasons.

      McBride A
      4 seconds, can’t say he wasn’t ready.

    10. On Kemba I’m keeping expectations in the dirt for him and pretending what we’ve seen is the most we’ll get out of him. Also Quickley needs to get his act together hes been off shooting wise since SL. The rookies can at least offer some defense if their shot isnt falling.

      We still need to figure out a long term answer at PG(Rokas save us) and I dont think Leon will wait till the offseason.

    11. I might have thrown Deuce out there for a few minutes in the 4th quarter to hound Ross, he just destroyed us in the 4th quarter

    12. Rokas isn’t the saviour, not next year.

      He’s mostly coming of the bench in Barcelona (he’s playing less than 13 MPG in ACB and just over 16 MPG in EuroLeague, mostly on blowouts) and had 8 points in the last two games combined. He’s shooting well from 2PT and so-so from 3PT.

      He’s a project and he needs some seasoning, he’ll be good probably for 2023-2024 (read: when Kemba’s contract expires).

    13. ***It sucks we lost but in the NBA even the absolute worst teams can beat anyone on any given night.***

      If it’s ANY solace, the 73 win Warriors lost to the 29 win Timberwolves in 2016.

    14. There were definitely things we could’ve done better but I didn’t view that as some kind of pathetic loss. Some of the Magic kids played really well, we went ice cold, and we got Terrence Rossed. Tip your cap and move on.

      It’s great to see Mitch looking this good after such a long layoff. Would like to see him set more solid screens, gotta think it would open up even more lob opportunities.

      Philly sans Simmons should be a decent litmus test for where this team is right now. If we’re a contender for a top-4 seed, we should be able to beat them at home or at least make it very competitive.

    15. ***It sucks we lost but in the NBA even the absolute worst teams can beat anyone on any given night.***

      If it’s ANY solace, the 73 win Warriors lost to the 29 win Timberwolves in 2016.

      Yes, and last year we smoked the eventual champions Milwaukee Bucks by 20 in the third game of the season.

      My point is different. There are games during the 82-games stretch that are just “games” and other that are “exams”.

      Beating a lousy team at home, start 3-0 after 120 years and shout to the League “we’re here now!” is an exam.
      And we failed, badly.

      That’s why I’m so pissed,

      And now let’s beat the Sixers.

    16. I’m not a 10 on the Quickley panic meter but I’m also not a 1. It’s rare, but there have been players who had intriguing rookie seasons and then never really put it together. The new foul rules certainly don’t help, but I have to think at least the threes will start falling with more regularity.

    17. thenoblefacehumper: The new foul rules certainly don’t help

      I logged on to post this early-returns stat:

      NBA FTr

      2020-21 .247
      2021-22 .214

      Very, very, very small sample (about 2000 total minutes per team) but should be interesting to see how it shakes out. Clearly we’re seeing a different whistle. It would be a seismic shift if the FTr dipped below .200 and stayed there.

      As with the MLB’s midseason rule change, the NBA is essentially picking winners and losers with the foul changes. I think the NBA should be forced to offer roster relief when making such a change. Brooklyn sells the farm for James Harden, and with the new rules, he’s a shell of his former self (even if his recent play is small-sample theater). The Mavs offer a supermax to their generational talent and he’s now going to have to change what makes him so effective.

      It’s just not good for the sport to have teams committing huge amounts of money to players and then change the ROI arbitrarily.

    18. in watching these early games around the league…it seems like the new rule change on the fouling has extended to allowing more physical play in general…it just seems like there is way less “and one” calls on drives/under the hoop put backs and a lot of complaining…like these used to be called all the time and now I can’t get a whistle type complaining..perhaps they are tyring to keep the game flowing more with less stoppages..

    19. That’s an interesting take Jowles.

      You could respond by saying that any smart team would be prepared for these kinds of rule changes, which were widely mooted. Strat will probably say that actually.

      I think Harden will figure it out and my vague theory of players having an immutable quantum of talent across any permutation of coaches, teammates, opposition, rules etc will be confirmed.

    20. I’m sure theres gonna be some adjustment phase for the refs as well they will eventually find a good medium on what they should call a foul and not. It does feel early on they are trying too hard not to call those foul baiting calls.

      As a Harden hater tho I’m loving it early on.

    21. Not gonna panic about this early-season trap game, but this team definitely needs to focus on 1. ball movement and 2. defensive intensity every night or it will get cooked by hot teams.

      Athletically, Mitch kind of scares me. It doesn’t look like he worked on his legs as much as his upper body (maybe that was tricky with the injury), and he just seems out of control sometimes. His next to-do should be taking Tae Kwon Do lessons.

    22. A disappointing loss, but nowhere near the level of the Jets totally no-showing in NE after a bye week. Sheesh.

      The Knicks were ice cold in the 4th quarter. It happens…let’s just hope not too often.

    23. *** It’s just not good for the sport to have teams committing huge amounts of money to players and then change the ROI arbitrarily. ***

      Hey, looting the capital was condoned by the government on January 5th. Is it really fair that people committed huge amounts of time and money planning for and executing it, just to have the government change the rules arbitrarily?

    24. Donnie Walsh: Hey, looting the capital was condoned by the government on January 5th. Is it really fair that people committed huge amounts of time and money planning for and executing it, just to have the government change the rules arbitrarily?

      checkmated

    25. Max: There are games during the 82-games stretch that are just “games” and other that are “exams”.

      Attempting to beat a cream puff team 2 days after destroying them is the least “examy” game I can think of. What would we have learned about them if they won? Celtics OT was a mini exam. Philly will be an exam.

    26. I’d rather we lose a game like this early than mid season or late. The Knicks went undefeated in the preseason, had a huge opening night win and then crushed Orlando. The press had been hugely positive and I think there is something to be said for they probably were feeling themselves a little too much this early on. This is humbling. Its been said before but last year we could grind out games where our offense sucked bc the defense was better. This is a wake up call to keep working on the defense so its there on nights the offense isn’t.

    27. Randle C-
      Stuffed the boxscore as usual, doesn’t seems ready to yield the scepter of power in favor of a better ball movement. We’re at our best when the ball moves, Sticky Fingers is only good when played by the Stones.

      as an mmo fantasy fan – i just love this reference about the “scepter of power” :)

    28. Rule changes have been going on for a long time. They added a shock clock, changed then width of the lane, added a 3 point line, changed the length of the 3 point line, changed the 3 point line again, allowed zone defense, changed FT rules, changed hand checking rules, call fouls in the lane differently etc.. The game evolves.

      I think what’s happening now to some extent is that the very smartest teams/players have data available and use it to try to take advantage of the rules. But if you are truly a great player you are going to adjust your game to the rules and be very effective no matter what.

    29. anyone have any real interest in the world series this year…easy to imagine about 99% of the baseball fanbase will be rooting for the braves…

      football wise, i’m pretty ambivalent about the g-men…win/lose, just don’t really care…as folks have mentioned before – it’s hard for a team to be successful and overcome ownership issues…

      it took us nearly two decades to finally get our front office/roster and coaching situation right…

    30. geo: anyone have any real interest in the world series this year…easy to imagine about 99% of the baseball fanbase will be rooting for the braves…

      This assumes that Mets fans only make up about 1% of the baseball fanbase.

    31. This is like the Worst Case Scenario World Series.

      Phillies-Astros might have been worse, but that’s about it.

    32. football wise, i’m pretty ambivalent about the g-men…win/lose, just don’t really care…as folks have mentioned before – it’s hard for a team to be successful and overcome ownership issues…

      Same, but what’s wild to me about the current situation is it’s making me rethink everything I thought about the Giants even pre-Gettleman. I thought they were pretty well-run, but looking back on it it’s quite possible this has been a clown car for 20 some odd years that was papered over by two fun-as-hell-but-realistically-anomalous championships.

    33. I thought they were pretty well-run, but looking back on it it’s quite possible this has been a clown car for 20 some odd years that was papered over by two fun-as-hell-but-realistically-anomalous championships.

      that’s exactly my situation, until folks here started speaking about the family injecting themselves in to football operations, i had no idea how bad the situation actually is…

      ownership involvement in sports operations is probably not that unique – but, when family ties are placed above competence in that whatever specialty area, kinda scary..

    34. This assumes that Mets fans only make up about 1% of the baseball fanbase.

      too funny, as soon as i posted that, i suddenly remembered all our met fans here…yeah, guess you all aren’t too eager to see any kind of braves ticket tape parade going down peachtree any time soon…

      i just hate the astros, a lot…maybe even more than the red sox right now…

    35. JK47:
      This is like the Worst Case Scenario World Series.

      Phillies-Astros might have been worse, but that’s about it.

      I mean, Phillies-Yankees happened not that long ago.

    36. Same, but what’s wild to me about the current situation is it’s making me rethink everything I thought about the Giants even pre-Gettleman. I thought they were pretty well-run, but looking back on it it’s quite possible this has been a clown car for 20 some odd years that was papered over by two fun-as-hell-but-realistically-anomalous championships.

      Ernie Accorsi and Tom Coughlin were both very good at their jobs.

    37. If you offer roster relief following a rule change, then you’ll need the owners and players union to agree to those terms. I don’t think that’d be resolved in any short period of time.

      I don’t think Luka or Harden are suddenly bad players due to the rule change. They need to adjust, but they can both still pass, score, & rebound. I wouldn’t conclude either is worth less than the max yet.

    38. The fouls that Harden “drew” were never really fouls to begin with (*), so I’m perfectly fine with a quick “caveat emptor” to the Nets and moving to more pressing concerns.

      (*) I’ve seen some Nets this year and seen five or six plays where he’s tried his bullshit flopping and diving in only to get glazed eyes from the refs and I’m like, “Yeah, exactly.”

    39. geo: too funny, as soon as i posted that, i suddenly remembered all our met fans here…yeah, guess you all aren’t too eager to see any kind of braves ticket tape parade going down peachtree any time soon…

      i just hate the astros, a lot…maybe even more than the red sox right now…

      Especially down here in East Tennessee, where I have to deal with the fair weather Braves fans from time to time…
      :-)

    40. Harden-style foul baiting is a genuine eyesore, that tactic is universally despised. If the new interpretation of the rule means that guys like Harden and Doncic are less valuable because their annoying tactic is no longer rewarded as much, I believe that’s what’s referred to as “tough titties.”

      I think the same thing about baseball, where the robo ump is almost certainly going to be part of the game in the future. Yes, it will hurt the value of catchers who are good pitch framers, but it will make the game better and more watchable.

    41. People hated VAR, maybe a lot of people still do, but I think it’s actually added to football. It’s pretty strange when you watch a match that doesn’t have it and they blow a call completely with no option to review. Doesn’t feel right.

      Harden will figure it out but may be a great player now instead of a transcendent one.

    42. As frustrated as I was last night I think we’d be reacting differently if the Knicks had blown a 6 pt lead going into the 4th quarter in Orlando cause Ross went off then returned home to beat them by 25. The fact the Knicks destroyed them Fri in Orlando then blew the game at home is more frustrating than if it had happened the other way around.

    43. Maybe we should wait more than 2 or 3 games before we decide that the new rules on fouls are actually hurting players and it’s not super small sample size noise (or horrific coaching from Jason Kidd).

    44. Randle had a very good boxscore last night but I was cringing most of the time watching him. He needs to play smarter and move the ball.

    45. Randle had a very good boxscore last night but I was cringing most of the time watching him. He needs to play smarter and move the ball.

      I cringe too. After 3 games Randle’s Usage% is 4 points higher that last year (33.2% vs 29,3%).

      This is not a good sign.
      We added players to ease his burden and lower his usage after our pathetic playoffs display clearly showed that you can’t win with only one offensive threat.

      We can fulfill our potential only if we keep the ball moving to take advantage of the improved firepower and right now he’s the biggest obstacle to that.
      He needs to realize that he can be our leader even scoring 20 efficient points instead of 30 forced ones.

      To give him his due he’s playing well on defense (most of the times).

    46. swiftandabundant: Roster relief because soft ass players like Harden and Doncic can’t bait for fouls? GIVE ME A F’N BREAK!!!

      I fucking know that if Harden or Doncic had somehow worn blue and orange you’d be falling all over yourself to defend him, like lying prostrate at the feet of Adam Silver saying, “Daddy, please, please, please, let him play his game… daddy, please…”

    47. anyone have any real interest in the world series this year…easy to imagine about 99% of the baseball fanbase will be rooting for the braves…

      I don’t follow baseball hardly at all and usually don’t care who wins the series, but in this case I’m rooting for the Braves. My dad was a big braves fan but they were often terrible, so I will root for them in his stead.

    48. Watching Josh Giddey highlights and he might be top 5 slowest players I’ve ever seen

      Giddey is quite reminiscent of Kyle Anderson, a similarly skilled but slow-footed player.

    49. The Honorable Cock Jowles: I fucking know that if Harden or Doncic had somehow worn blue and orange you’d be falling all over yourself to defend him, like lying prostrate at the feet of Adam Silver saying, “Daddy, please, please, please, let him play his game… daddy, please…”

      So unfortunate…

    50. Wait, don’t we have the poverty stricken homeless man’s version of Harden in IQ? Nobody’s bitching that it’s not fair to him (although we’re all noting he’s sucked recently…).

    51. I’d love for them to get rid of the side-to-side call…if you purposely swipt your arms into the defender’s stationary arms, it should be a no-call.

    52. Dammit, was going to throw out that Kyle Anderson comp.

      And yeah, wish I could watch the Hornets beat the Celts

    53. @FredKatz
      Nerlens Noel is “doing more” in practice, Tom Thibodeau says. Said Noel is 50-50 to play tomorrow against the 76ers. He’s missed the first three games and all four preseason games because of a knee injury.

    54. “I’m not worried about RJ. He’s a terrific player,” Thibodeau said. “There’s gonna be some ups and downs. We have to figure things out and get better. But I think he has confidence in who he is and it’s come from his preparation, which is important. We are asking him to do more this year, but I think he’s ready for that challenge.”

    55. How are the Cavs starting Markkenen, Allen, and Mobley? Is Mobley playing SF?

      Markkenen is. It’s fascinating.

    56. 8 steals for PG. definitely a shadow MVP candidate. And they crushed the Blazers.

      Bit if a throwback game from Love too.

      NBA going to be super weird and pretty interesting this year.

      Might go to the game tonight if a few things fall into place. Hope they do.

    57. Teams are still figuring it out, so I would expect that the second 10 games will be a lot different than the first 10 games

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