Knicks Morning News (2021.10.13)

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    [heavy.com] — Wednesday, October 13, 2021 4:46:59 AM

    Tom Thibodeau Spotted at Knicks Practice  Heavy.com

  • October 12: Former New York Knicks Player Charlie Ward Born, 1970 – Lasentinel
    [lasentinel.net] — Wednesday, October 13, 2021 12:39:32 AM

    October 12: Former New York Knicks Player Charlie Ward Born, 1970  Lasentinel

  • Knicks news: Derrick Rose pulls dream proposal Madison Square Garden – ClutchPoints
    [clutchpoints.com] — Tuesday, October 12, 2021 9:48:54 PM

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    [empiresportsmedia.com] — Tuesday, October 12, 2021 7:47:16 PM

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    [dailyknicks.com] — Tuesday, October 12, 2021 6:00:00 PM

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  • The Knicks added Kemba Walker to be good, not to save them ? and that’s good – Posting and Toasting
    [www.postingandtoasting.com] — Tuesday, October 12, 2021 3:00:00 PM

    The Knicks added Kemba Walker to be good, not to save them ? and that’s good  Posting and ToastingIn twist, the Knicks are the drama-free team  New York Post Randle, Knicks hope to keep building on surprising success  Associated PressKnicks head coach Tom Thibodeau talks RJ Barrett’s development entering Year 3: ‘The sky is the limit’  Yahoo SportsNY Knicks: Where does Tom Thibodeau rank among NBA coaches?  Daily KnicksView Full Coverage on Google News

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    [www.sportskeeda.com] — Tuesday, October 12, 2021 10:20:29 AM

    Detroit Pistons vs New York Knicks Prediction & Match Preview – October 13th, 2021 | NBA Preseason 2021-22  Sportskeeda

  • Is Raul Neto the second coming of Steve Kerr? – Bullets Forever
    [www.bulletsforever.com] — Tuesday, October 12, 2021 8:00:00 AM

    Is Raul Neto the second coming of Steve Kerr?  Bullets Forever

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    132 thoughts to “Knicks Morning News (2021.10.13)”

    1. It’s funny, Mike’s algo seems to just copy the titles of the articles but in this case the algo title and the article title are different.

    2. BernieEarnie:
      It’s funny, Mike’s algo seems to just copy the titles of the articles but in this case the algo title and the article title are different.

      This could be the result of any of a number of different kind of quirks in the web publishing game, from the site screwing up the headline initially (I’m assuming it’s a story about Jim Boylan being a visitor at practice as he tours the league, like Thibs did after his own firing) to someone at Heavy deciding that putting Thibs’ name in a non-public version of the headline would be better to attract web search traffic, etc. It’s a strange business.

    3. BernieEarnie: Mike’s algo seems to just copy the titles of the articles but in this case the algo title and the article title are different

      Maybe since the bot collected the news they changed the article title, but the page title (on the browser’s tab) still is the wrong one.

    4. This is encouraging…

      In NYPost.com:
      Knicks center Mitchell Robinson is getting closer and Thibodeau wouldn’t completely rule him out for the preseason finale Friday against Washington.
      “He’s making really good progress,’’ Thibodeau said. “He is doing a lot more in practice. He’s doing most of practice right now.’’

    5. Good to hear about Mitch. I thought he was further away from playing but seems the team was just being super cautious.

    6. That’s the coach of the year advantage, you know Thibs will show up to practice, not like these Allen Iverson coaches

    7. I’ll be at the garden tonight, and FYI tickets are super cheap. Was hoping to see Cade and Hayes but still looking forward to seeing the new look Knicks. Hoping we play the kids a bit but also will not pretend it’s a big deal either way.

      I’m a bit worried about the center depth to start the season considering Noel and Mitch’s statuses, largely just because I really, really want to beat the Celtics on opening night (which I am also attending, and those were decidedly not super cheap). Maybe we see, like, 5 Obi/Randle minutes at some point? Taj is a warrior but 48 minutes still seems like a bit much for a 36 year old.

    8. off topic, but man… this Gruden stuff is the highest level of schadenfreude I’ve experienced in a long time. I just watched Keyshawn Johnson’s rant on how he always knew Gruden was a fraud. You could feel how happy he was to finally let that out.

      I don’t normally take pleasure in another person’s misery but Gruden always rubbed me wrong, and not just because he ruined MNF broadcasts for years. That guy was the living embodiment of the most exteme kind of privilege. He was a mediocre coach — no better than the Giants’ Jim Fassel, IMHO — who somehow got the Bucs to give up 2 first round picks for him and got the Raiders to hand him $100mm. And he was a terrible broadcaster who somehow got one of the prime jobs in the industry.

      The guy was made for no reason. Kind of fun to see him become undone.

      Also happy for JK47. Too bad you can’t get Khalil Mack back.

    9. off topic again: this wu-tang series on hulu keeps getting better. today’s released episode is great.

    10. On topic: Lowe’s top 10 is out, and I believe his logic for placing Charlotte and Chicago so high is sound.

      I agree. Ball brothers passing to high level dunkers like Zach and Miles Bridges should be a lot of fun to watch. I think we’ll play an aesthetically pleasing brand of basketball, too, but there will definitely be a good amount of Randle iso possessions, and Obi and Mitch are really our only human highlight film type players.

    11. I still can’t post links, so did anyone else see that Jordan Poole crossover driving dunk from last night? Man, if that guy is for real, the Dubs could actually make waves. I think Klay will come back a shell of his former self (but capable of hitting catch-and-shoot threes, just not the motion-oriented player he used to be) and Draymond continues to age, but Poole could save the end of Steph’s prime on his own. Just horrifically stupid, still, that they didn’t take LaMelo. They wouldn’t even need Klay if they could roll out a 1-2-3 of LaMelo, Steph and Poole.

    12. Just horrifically stupid, still, that they didn’t take LaMelo.

      LaMelo might have done himself a disservice by playing in Australia. We say it’s stupid in hindsight, but at the time it was legitimately challenging to try to benchmark his production down under. Had he gone to any college in America, he likely would have established himself as the clear top pick in the draft.

    13. Hubert: LaMelo might have done himself a disservice by playing in Australia. We say it’s stupid in hindsight, but at the time it was legitimately challenging to try to benchmark his production down under. Had he gone to any college in America, he likely would have established himself as the clear top pick in the draft.

      Absolutely. I don’t think he was a slam dunk #1 pick, so it’s not like the Warriors passed on Luka or Zion, two of the most obvious #1s in my lifetime (Shaq, Duncan, AD, LeBron, Bargnani round out the list). But I do think that his passing was already Magic Johnson-like, and that alone should have had him going to the Dubs. You cannot pass on a 6’7″ point guard when you’re running an offense like theirs. Whether he will top out as a .560 or .620 TS% shooter is still up the in air.

      Also, he ranked 12th in AST% and 5th in STL% as a rookie. That’s pretty sick.

      Test link:

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPB8qKcnC4g

      Skip ahead to 0:47 (WHO THE HELL HAS A 47-SECOND INTRO FOR A PRESEASON HIGHLIGHT REEL)

      I mean, look at that pass at 1:30 to Bridges. Absolutely fucking filthy.

    14. @alderalmo
      Thibs said in the training camp that they’d added analytics guys. Here’s 1 of them: Chris Feller, the Knicks’ new Basketball Strategy Manager. He’s got M.S. in Business Analytics and previously worked full-time with Nuggets, Pelicans, Nike & various NBA teams as a consultant.

      That’s in addition to this guy whose hiring was announced in early September:

      @alderalmo
      Knicks hired former Indiana Pacers senior basketball data analyst Nick Fleder last July as their new data science manager. Fleder spent his first 3 seasons in the NBA with the Pacers.

    15. You can tell Jowles lives on the west coast because the Dubs hype machine has got its hooks in him.

    16. LaMelo played 12 games, shot like ass and then got hurt in Australia. That was certainly a possibility if he played college ball.

    17. I am going to work harder this year to be present and not think about how much I enjoy watching Miles Bridges dunk and Mikal Bridges play defense.

    18. ***@alderalmo
      Thibs said in the training camp that they’d added analytics guys. ***

      Wait, Thibodeau was at training camp too? How was he not spotted there?!

    19. Approximately 69% of current Portland residents bought a house in the Bay in 2011 and sold it to retire in Portland, which is how I know so much about the Warriors, because their fans outnumber Blazers fans at this point

    20. Hubert:
      off topic, but man… this Gruden stuff is the highest level of schadenfreude I’ve experienced in a long time. I just watched Keyshawn Johnson’s rant on how he always knew Gruden was a fraud. You could feel how happy he was to finally let that out.

      I don’t normally take pleasure in another person’s misery but Gruden always rubbed me wrong, and not just because he ruined MNF broadcasts for years. That guy was the living embodiment of the most exteme kind of privilege. He was a mediocre coach — no better than the Giants’ Jim Fassel, IMHO — who somehow got the Bucs to give up 2 first round picks for him and got the Raiders to hand him $100mm. And he was a terrible broadcaster who somehow got one of the prime jobs in the industry.

      The guy was made for no reason. Kind of fun to see him become undone.

      Some conspiracy theory type stuff out there, too….like this was a hit by the NFL on him while protecting higher ups (owners?). I guess we’ll see.

    21. And just like it is with vaccines, there was no chance politics was going to be kept out of this thread either. Fine if you detest Gruden, that’s certainly your prerogative, but as best I can tell, his “crime” was in “harboring the attitudes of a dinosaur.” Absent evidence that he ever acted on said attitudes, and there is none that I can see, his offense is basically a thoughtcrime and I don’t support the sanctioning of thoughtcrimes. I never will. The non-personing of him by the Buccaneers, taking him off their Wall of Fame, is straight out of George Orwell.

      Now, one might argue that if a person thinks certain things, he might act certain ways in sympathy with those thoughts, and it makes prophylactic sense to get out in front of things the person says to prevent the bad acts he might commit. But if that’s going to be the principle and it was really going to be applied across the board — it won’t be; it will only be applied against older white males, that’s crystal clear — we’d start sanctioning people for song lyrics, expressions that they’d like to kill someone, and all the rest. There’s no thought of ever doing that among the Gruden schadenfreude types.

      If you’re looking for the world of professional football to harbor only delicate, perfectly multicultural attitudes among its membership, and a bunch of men who would be comfortable at faculty cocktail parties, you are going to be sadly disappointed. It’s unclear how people actually got ideas to the contrary in their heads. These people are basically phys-ed teachers. I’ve been an NFL fan for many years and never a single time did I ever look to the NFL as a repository of anything other than high-level football. There’s really a degree of, I don’t know … childishness? … in expecting it to be anything other than that and somehow needing it to be anything other than that.

      Some of us out here, including committed liberals, do not support authoritarianism. Anti-authoritarianism used to be not so long ago a core liberal value. It’s still mine and always will be. (*) If all you do is pay attention to Twitter mobs, you might not know this, but it’s very real.

      (*) That has obvious applicability to vax mandates, too, which is blatantly obvious.

    22. I could write a 50,000 word hit piece on Jon Gruden off the top of my head.

      All of his bad football decisions came from personal hubris, the idea that he’s smarter than everybody else. His thinking on the Khalil Mack trade went like this: Why should I give Khalil Mack a big contract when I can just trade him for a couple of picks and then bring in my own guys? I’ll just find my own Khalil Mack in the draft, then use that salary cap space to bring in some Gruden Grinders!

      Mack was traded for two first round picks that both ended up being late round picks. One was spent on Josh Jacobs, an okay running back but not a first round talent. Generally you only want to draft a RB in the first if he’s a versatile, workhorse, all-downs player like Christian McCaffrey, but Jacobs is just a power runner, doesn’t even catch the ball well. So that’s one Khalil Mack pick wasted— you can find RBs of Jacobs’ caliber much later in the draft.

      The other 1RP was burned on Damon Arnette, a reach pick CB who has been practically unplayable since arriving to the team. Never should have been selected in the first round, he was looked at like more of a day two pick. And that’s it. That’s the “haul” for Khalil Mack.

      The cap space was mostly spent on tackle Trent Brown, who was not considered an elite player, and who was usually injured. He was traded eventually for a sixth round pick I think.

      Gruden did get a #3 overall pick in a draft and tried to draft his Khalil Mack replacement with that pick. He reached mightily for Clelin Ferrell, who most experts had pegged as a late first rounder. Godawful value pick at 3, but like Khalil Mack, Ferrell was supposed to be that rare kind of pass rush monster who was also great at blowing up run plays. Problem is that Ferrell has no explosiveness as a pass rusher and is a bench level player.

      Should have just kept Khalil Mack, bro! Now make that scrunched up Chucky face like you’re real mad. Yeah, that’s the stuff.

    23. The punchline to the Khalil Mack saga is that this past offseason Gruden contacted the Bears and tried to trade for Khalil Mack.

      Mack remained a Bear and singlehandedly blew up Gruden’s pathetic offense in what turned out to be Chucky’s final game.

    24. I’m sorry, I taught 1984 and Animal Farm for many a years, and the idea that what is happening to Gruden is “straight out of George Orwell” is utter nonsense. I suppose if the NFL decides to completely remove Gruden’s name from all its records, as if he never existed, then that will be something like the *unpersons* of 1984. However, in the novel, that was the state doing it, totally eradicating non desirables from existence, not just a super big business worried that an employee might damage their bottom line in some ways.

      Also, not sure “thoughtcrime” is the issue when the guy apparently put his stuff in numerous emails to others, thus “publishing” his thoughts, possibly with the intent of influencing others to his way of thinking. That’s a bit of a stretch from poor Winston Smith in the book. I just don’t see Gruden as some kind of anti-authoritarian hero…

    25. TheClashFan:
      I’m sorry, I taught 1984 and Animal Farm for many a years, and the idea that what is happening to Gruden is “straight out of George Orwell” is utter nonsense.I suppose if the NFL decides to completely remove Gruden’s name from all its records, as if he never existed, then that will be something like the *unpersons* of 1984.However, in the novel, that was the state doing it, totally eradicating non desirables from existence, not just a super big business worried that an employee might damage their bottom line in some ways.

      Also, not sure “thoughtcrime” is the issue when the guy apparently put his stuff in numerous emails to others, thus “publishing” his thoughts, possibly with the intent of influencing others to his way of thinking.That’s a bit of a stretch from poor Winston Smith in the book.I just don’t see Gruden as some kind of anti-authoritarian hero…

      Then I’m afraid that you taught it wrong. You’re right; in the book it was the state alone. Now it’s a corporatist combination of the state and big business. Distinction without a difference. If anything, adding big business to the authoritarian mix makes it worse and harder to avoid/resist.

      And he didn’t “publish” his thoughts in any serious sense. He emailed them to a friend and then they were leaked and published by someone else. An email to a single friend is no different than saying something to the same friend in your basement or at the local pub. Had he said them out loud to a public group that would of course be an entirely different story, but he never did, which strongly implies that he knew he wasn’t supposed to and that he was just blowing off steam to a friend.

      The thing about this is that no one ever really thinks they’re an authoritarian. Most likely, the bigwigs in the Chinese government don’t get up in the morning and look themselves in the…

    26. mirror and say, “Time to get my coffee and go out and commence another day of being a tyrant.” Yet somehow the world still has all manner of tyranny and authoritarianism in it.

    27. You don’t really have to go down a rabbit hole to see that Gruden fucked up by calling Goodell a “pussy” in those emails. I am sure ol’ Roger wasn’t happy when his office found those derogatory emails against him in the course of their investigation on Snyder’s front office. My guess is that Goodell leaked it out of pettiness as payback. Our social media atmosphere did the rest.

    28. ***he didn’t “publish” his thoughts in any serious sense.***

      Can you be more like him then? Thanks.

    29. Tyranny is when I use abhorrent slurs and share pictures of topless women taken without their permission and other people think that’s bad

      TheClashFan: not just a super big business worried that an employee might damage their bottom line in some ways.

      Whoa, let’s be real here. 1. Gruden wasn’t fired, he quit. 2. He didn’t get in trouble because anyone thought he was going to hurt their bottom line. He got in trouble because he talked shit about Goodell, the biggest baby that’s ever run a sports league, and to try to distract people from the truly awful things Dan Snyder and the rest of the Washington Football Team were doing to their cheerleaders.

    30. > Then I’m afraid that you taught it wrong.

      Orwell was a democratic socialist.

      > An email to a single friend is no different than saying something to the same friend in your basement or at the local pub.

      If you’ve ever worked at a job, you’ve probably had to take some kind of business conduct training. And that training would tell you that neither email, nor a bar, nor a party makes it OK. IE – you can’t say “Dum­b­oriss Smith has lips the size of michellin tires” in a work email, at a pub, or in a party (if your employees are within ear-shot).

      > he was just blowing off steam to a friend.

      So am I the only one who doesn’t say racist, homophobic, and sexist things in their off time, to blow off steam? Usually I’ll grab a drink, hit the gym, play a game with my kids, take a walk, etc. Funny how I don’t send naked pictures of women to co-workers or tell them I wish we didn’t hire “f****ts”. Maybe I’m doing it wrong?

      Boys will be boys, I guess?

    31. The comment that was obviously a slur against Michael Sam was enough to get him fired on its own.

      Sorry that the times have passed Jon Gruden by. He’s was still trying to play three yards and a cloud of dust in 2021 so maybe the NFL isn’t for him anymore. Plus there are “queers” in it now.

      Such a shame when bullying blowhard loudmouth bigots get their comeuppance. Totes 1984, bros. Let’s all sit here and be sad about how the incompetent Jon Gruden managed to asshole his way out of $60 million.

    32. Donnie, you really make me chuckle.

      Mike – Look, THIS IS JUST LOCKER ROOM TALK.

      I don’t have any interest in this conversation.

      I will admit to having gone down an absolute rabbit hole this week trying to understand Chappelle’s stand up special from every possible angle and how I felt about it. My conclusion was that I do not have the mental firepower to figure this cancel culture/free speech thing out.

    33. “An email to a single friend is no different than saying something to the same friend in your basement or at the local pub. ”

      The problem for Gruden isn’t the First Amendment one, but the Fourth Amendment. He sent those derogatory emails to work addresses, from his own ESPN work address I believe. So Fourth Amendment protections against unreasonable searches and seizures don’t apply here. The law is very clear on this issue – work emails are the intellectual property of the company you work for. Gruden should’ve known this as I bet it was mentioned in his contract. With that kind of information released his employer had the legal right to terminate him for a number of reasons.

    34. I was taught when I was like five years-old to never put anything in an email you wouldn’t be comfortable publishing. I would imagine this is an especially important lesson to internalize when you regularly send emails to people who are liable to be investigated for harboring a workplace absolutely rife with sexual harassment and abuse.

      Seems like less of a “thought” crime and more of a “I put my thoughts in writing and created permanent digital records of them by sending them to someone who appears to have fostered a workplace consistent with said thoughts” crime.

    35. On top of everything else, Gruden has a public facing job. His personality and his brand are a big part of what he is. Head football coaches and broadcasters are both in the job of PR just as much as coaching or commentating. So when your job is your brand and you say a bunch of abhorrent things it should not be a surprise when you get dragged for it.

      Good bye and good riddance. The best way to avoid getting in trouble for saying abhorrent things is first not to think them and second if you do keep it to your damn self.

    36. JK47: Sorry that the times have passed Jon Gruden by.

      Yeah, as I first said, that’s ultimately his “offense.” All the efforts to make his offense something else are either factually inaccurate or insincere or analytically misguided, or some combo of the three.

      And the “offense” has to be refined even more, because Jon Gruden didn’t act as if the times had passed him by; he expressed entirely private thoughts to a friend that made it appear superficially as if the times had passed him by. If he’d gone out in public and said something like, “I don’t believe the NFL should be drafting queers,” that would obviously be an immediate firing offense and there would be widespread agreement and would have been widespread agreement in 1981 as much as 2021. But he didn’t do anything close to that and it’s false to suggest that he did.

      So, yeah, it’s pretty much the quintessential thoughtcrime. He was obviously dumb af to put the thoughts that constitute the thoughtcrime in a preservable email, but the fact that the fact that the medium is preservable doesn’t change a thought into something else. It’s still a thought.

    37. vincoug:
      Tyranny is when I use abhorrent slurs and share pictures of topless women taken without their permission and other people think that’s bad

      Whoa, let’s be real here.1. Gruden wasn’t fired, he quit.2. He didn’t get in trouble because anyone thought he was going to hurt their bottom line.He got in trouble because he talked shit about Goodell, the biggest baby that’s ever run a sports league, and to try to distract people from the truly awful things Dan Snyder and the rest of the Washington Football Team were doing to their cheerleaders.

      Mmm. Maybe, but E’s post mentioned Gruden being removed from Tampa Bay’s Ring of Honor as being Orwellian. I may be cynical, but I think that’s ultimately a “bottom line” issue for that franchise, rightly or wrongly.

    38. “If he’d gone out in public and said something like, “I don’t believe the NFL should be drafting queers,” that would obviously be an immediate firing offense and there would be widespread agreement. But he didn’t do anything close to that and it’s false to suggest that he did.”

      But he put those thoughts in print, on a forum that he didn’t privately own, in association with a third-party employer, and then that information was publicized. He didn’t have any right to privacy in this matter according to basic constitutional law.

    39. Since Father Time remains and will always remain undefeated, the Millennials will one day be in a position where if we’re in a similar world to today’s, younger generations will be hectoring them for being dinosaurs. I doubt they realize this, but it’s inevitable. Hopefully, those younger generations will be more empathetic and fair-minded and attentive to detail, and less authoritarian and less shrill and less bitchy. My guess is that they will be, and the M’s will escape any sort of earthly karma for their advancing decrepitude. But we shall see.

    40. Barrettcuda:
      “If he’d gone out in public and said something like, “I don’t believe the NFL should be drafting queers,” that would obviously be an immediate firing offense and there would be widespread agreement. But he didn’t do anything close to that and it’s false to suggest that he did.”

      But he put those thoughts in print, on a forum that he didn’t privately own, in association with a third-party employer, and then that information was publicized. He didn’t have any right to privacy in this matter according to basic constitutional law.

      No one’s saying he had a legal right to privacy. The discussion isn’t about any legal claims he might have or any legal wrong he might have suffered. He was dumb as fuck to put these things down on email. He was retrograde to think the things he put down in the email (assuming he actually thought them). All that’s true. None of it means the wider response to it isn’t authoritarian or that the real nature of his “offense” can’t be deconstructed.

    41. I do agree that the process by which Gruden got got is one that makes me cringe. It’s hypocritical of me to ignore that and enjoy the outcome. But I’m going to do it anyway.

    42. Fine if you detest Gruden, that’s certainly your prerogative, but as best I can tell, his “crime” was in “harboring the attitudes of a dinosaur.” Absent evidence that he ever acted on said attitudes, and there is none that I can see, his offense is basically a thoughtcrime and I don’t support the sanctioning of thoughtcrimes. I never will. The non-personing of him by the Buccaneers, taking him off their Wall of Fame, is straight out of George Orwell.

      i just love it when you get all litigious E, it just makes me smile…so many different ways to perceive the world – who’s to say who’s right and who’s wrong…yeah, life requires a pretty thick rulebook…

      i will say this – my one big gripe with christian teachings is the whole – “think it and your guilty”…wtf is that, seriously, you think mother theresa had pure thoughts 24/7…i mean jesus, we’re all only human, right…

      i guess the answer is to write fiction and put out whatever inherent madness you might have in the pov of some fictional character…yeah, that’s not really me, that’s just how this particular character thinks…

      and fuck john gruden, his voice is irritating…it’s hard to contain stupidity and/or ignorance forever when you combine it with excessive arrogance…

    43. “Hopefully, those younger generations will be more empathetic and fair-minded and attentive to detail, and less authoritarian.”

      Why are you blaming Millennials for this? Jimmy the Greek was fired in 1988 by CBS for stating the Blacks were bred for sports during on the air. You just can’t say controversial shit about groups of people and expect not to face repercussions. The difference is that we live in a digital age where the Internet is an open book. But that is not the fault of one generation vs. the next. Jimmy said his piece of ignorance on one medium, Gruden said his on another. Both had it coming based on where they worked at and what they said.

    44. “None of it means the wider response to it isn’t authoritarian or that the real nature of his “offense” can’t be deconstructed.”

      What is authoritarian? That an employer can fire you for whatever ignorant comments you are proven to have made? Welcome to corporate capitalism, pal. They can fire you for a lot less if they think it threatens their bottom line. Authoritarianism is inherent to any hierarchal structure like this in a nation where constitutional protections are very limited in the workplace. It’s always been this way.

    45. Owen: I will admit to having gone down an absolute rabbit hole this week trying to understand Chappelle’s stand up special from every possible angle and how I felt about it. My conclusion was that I do not have the mental firepower to figure this cancel culture/free speech thing out.

      I did not spend any time considering it, even when a very smart friend of mine started discussing it with me, because I realized that now that I am without Facebook and Twitter, I am far less online and care far less about the cultural war du jour. If the LGBTQ community wants to boycott him, cool. If Netflix doesn’t want to bankroll and platform him, cool. If some trans or otherwise-queer people want to still watch his specials and laugh at his jokes, cool. I just don’t care. This is not a matter of public health like vaccine mandates, nor a matter of democratic principles, like the protection of a free press, so I’m just over here shrugging.

      As for Gruden, I also don’t care what happens to him. I do find it pretty funny that the business that actively employs Antonio Brown decided to make a symbolic gesture about their former employer. But as others have mentioned, he is really taking it on the chin for what he said about Goodell and other members of the NFL’s plantation owners. And so he must be punished.

    46. Barrettcuda: Why are you blaming Millennials for this? Jimmy the Greek was fired in 1988 by CBS for stating the Blacks were bred for sports during on the air. You just can’t say controversial shit about groups of people and expect not to face repercussions.

      Because it’s way worse now. No Twitter mobs in 1988. JtG said his ridiculous shit on camera. Al Campanis said his ridiculous shit on camera. Etc. They were not private thoughtcrimes.

    47. Barrettcuda:
      “None of it means the wider response to it isn’t authoritarian or that the real nature of his “offense” can’t be deconstructed.”

      What is authoritarian? That an employer can fire you for whatever ignorant comments you are proven to have made? Welcome to corporate capitalism, pal. They can fire you for a lot less if they think it threatens their bottom line. Authoritarianism is inherent to any hierarchal structure like this in a nation where constitutional protections are very limited in the workplace. It’s always been this way.

      Because it’s one guy being run down and massively sanctioned by a massive counterforce for a thoughtcrime. I assume that there isn’t some kind of counterargument here that there’s no such thing as “authoritarian.”

    48. “Because it’s way worse now. No Twitter mobs in 1988.”

      Well, because there was no Twitter or a fucking commercialized Internet in 1988 so ignorant shit didn’t go as viral back then either. But that’s not on Millennials.

      “JtG said his ridiculous shit on camera. Al Campanis said his ridiculous shit on camera. Etc. They were not private thoughtcrimes.”

      You still don’t get it, do you? We’re right back to the point I detailed about Fourth Amendments privacy rights. You have zero right to privacy when you are using an employer’s email. That isn’t a private space. Legally, its the same as Jimmy using CBS airwaves to talk about slave eugenics in front of a nationally televised audience. The only difference is the medium and the size of the audience, but again, that’s not any Millennial’s fault.

    49. > I will admit to having gone down an absolute rabbit hole this week trying to understand Chappelle’s stand up special from every possible angle and how I felt about it. My conclusion was that I do not have the mental firepower to figure this cancel culture/free speech thing out.

      Yeah and one of the Wayans brothers stood up for him & said Chappelle had “freed the slaves” by allowing comedians to be free of political correctness restraints. I mean I wonder if Chappelle & Damon are a member of some minority group that some comedians would love to use in a non-political correct way? Maybe we should return to a time when political correctness was out of comedy! I wonder what that would look like…

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_swtbIi2F0

    50. Sorry dude, but if my manager wrote emails saying that our organization shouldn’t be hiring queers, he’d get fired, whether it were made public or not.

    51. Hey guys, basketball news! Remember basketball!

      @_Andrew_Lopez
      Willie Green says there’s no update on Zion Williamson. Still waiting on results from scans.

      Pelicans season starts in a week. So that’s not great.

    52. Barrettcuda: Well, because there was no Twitter or a fucking commercialized Internet in 1988 so ignorant shit didn’t go as viral back then either. But that’s not on Millennials.

      How is it not on Millennials? Millennials are the ones who’ve taken the new tools and the sane 1988 atmosphere and extended it to private stuff with much wider reach and sanction. And the worst of them pretend that sanctioning people for this kind of shit only happens in the new woke world we created, when it’s been the case for 50+ years that if you say this kind of shit truly publicly, you were done.

      People walking their dogs on the weekend didn’t get fired in 1988 because of Twitter mobs. That’s entirely on Millennials. To a degree, it’s on the pusillanimous elders who the mobs have intimidated, but the ultimate source is the mobs.

    53. Mike Kurylo: Maybe we should return to a time when political correctness was out of comedy! I wonder what that would look like…

      Probably a lot like “In Living Color.” Pre Facebook and Twitter. The pattern is easy to discern for anyone paying attention.

    54. I definitely hear you Mike and that’s how I thought I would feel about it but the final story he tells really threw me for a loop.

      That blackface clip is really hard to watch. Which is to say I couldn’t watch more than 14 seconds of it.

    55. “How is it not on Millennials? Millennials are the ones who’ve taken the new tools and the sane 1988 atmosphere and extended it to private stuff with much wider reach and sanction.”

      I don’t know how many different ways I can tell you politely that what you write in an email correspondence within a workplace evironment isn’t “private stuff” by any definition of the law. You keep on saying that is as if it were so. But repeating this line and missing the point doesn’t make it so. Gruden didn’t get in trouble for his private thoughts. He got in trouble for expressing sentiments where others could see them and he faced repercussions for it the same today in 2021 as he would’ve in 1988.

    56. Millennials are the ones who’ve taken the new tools and the sane 1988 atmosphere and extended it to private stuff with much wider reach and sanction.

      Gruden said abhorrently racist, homophobic, misogynistic shit. From reading your comments one would get the impression he accidentally misgendered someone or something. This garbage would’ve gotten him fired in the ’70s.

      Ras/Barretrcuda is absolutely right that this has fuck all to do with millennials and everything to do with an idiot getting burned because he apparently didn’t realize an employer email is pretty much a public forum, both legally and practically.

    57. “Sorry dude, but if my manager wrote emails saying that our organization shouldn’t be hiring queers, he’d get fired, whether it were made public or not.”

      Or called a higher ranking executive in your company a “pussy” and “faggot”. Gruden got treated like most anyone else would’ve been in the same situation, except most don’t get to go home millions of dollars richer.

    58. Barrettcuda:
      “How is it not on Millennials? Millennials are the ones who’ve taken the new tools and the sane 1988 atmosphere and extended it to private stuff with much wider reach and sanction.”

      I don’t know how many different ways I can tell you politely that what you say in an email correspondence with a company email isn’t “private stuff” by any definition of the law. You keep on saying that is as if it were fact. But repeating this line and missing the point doesn’t make it so. Gruden didn’t get in trouble for his private thoughts. He got in trouble for expressing them where others could see them and he faced repercussions for it the same today in 2021 as he would’ve in 1988.

      For like the third time, I’m not talking about the legal status of email or the fineprint on company email systems that no one pays attention to. In standard English and in every real sense, one person emailing something to another person is a private conversation.

    59. watched squid game recently, interesting to see some of the cultural korean perspective that comes through in the show…

      as for the show itself, i liked it…

      dang, still 7 days until our tip-off…

    60. I’d love to know where Vegas would set the over/under for how many total regular season and playoff games Zion will play in his career.

      I love him so much but I fear he will have a very short career.

    61. Owen: That blackface clip is really hard to watch.

      I’ve never really quite understood in these kind of conversations why people post clips from like 1935 as if nothing happened in American cultural life between then and today.

    62. In standard English and in every real sense, one person emailing something to another person is a private conversation.

      You went to law school, passed the bar, and believe this to be true?

    63. Barrettcuda:
      “Sorry dude, but if my manager wrote emails saying that our organization shouldn’t be hiring queers, he’d get fired, whether it were made public or not.”

      Or called a higher ranking executive in your company a “pussy” and “faggot”. Gruden got treated like most anyone else would’ve been in the same situation, except most don’t get to go home millions of dollars richer.

      In 1988, if someone was in his basement with a co-worker and expressed the opinion that their boss was a pussy,(*) the odds that he would be fired would be zero. If the co-worker tried to rat him out and ran to the local newspaper, the local newspaper wouldn’t print anything about it.

      (*) Which happened a whole lot back then and still happens a whole lot today.

    64. The Honorable Cock Jowles: You went to law school, passed the bar, and believe this to be true?

      Even legally, it’s still a private conversation; it’s just that the maintainer of the system is allowed to eavesdrop if they so choose. I’d call private conversations in the old East Germany or today’s China private, even if everyone knew there was a massive chance somebody somewhere was listening in.

    65. “In standard English and in every real sense, one person emailing something to another person is a private conversation.”

      Not according to the law when you are involved with a work email owned by an employer. You’re just wrong. It’s not a private conversation. And for your edification, neither is a conversation on a social media site like this. You should know this stuff.

    66. Probably because Mike wants my Youtube feed to get really racist and white supremacisty.

      You know, I have discovered Youtube in the last year, since going ad free. It’s pretty great for cooking videos, poker videos, and soccer highlights. But you can totally tell when the algo is fishing for bad tendencies.

      E – I suspect Mike felt it was very relevant to the conversation. Reading about Blackface and actually seeing it for the first time turn out be very different things. It was actually pretty educational.

    67. That blackface clip is really hard to watch. Which is to say I couldn’t watch more than 14 seconds of it.

      like watching hairy cave people have sex, ewwwww, not exactly dolphin smooth…

      i don’t know, more people (7.5 billion and counting) means more rules needed to control those people…means weeding out the dinosaurs one gruden at a time…

      O wonder!
      How many goodly creatures are there here!
      How beauteous mankind is! O brave new world,
      That has such people in’t.

    68. “In 1988, if someone was in his basement with a co-worker and expressed the opinion that their boss was a pussy,(*) the odds that he would be fired would be zero.”

      If it was recorded by the employer’s video or some other type of media where that insult be proven as more than just petty hearsay then the boss can definitely discipline you with termination for insubordination. I don’t know where you’re living but its not the actual world if you aren’t aware of this.

    69. Barrettcuda:
      “In standard English and in every real sense, one person emailing something to another person is a private conversation.”

      Not according to the law when you are involved with a work email owned by an employer. You’re just wrong. It’s not a private conversation. And for your edification, neither is a conversation on a social media site like this. You should know this stuff.

      I know not according to the law; that’s why I said “standard English and normal conversation” without including “the law.” The thing you keep saying you have to repeat to me, I already know.

      Gruden had no actual right of privacy against his employer re the email. Happy now? But that’s all form and technicality, with no real substance.

    70. If you had the 1st pick in the draft and a soothsayer gave you this tidbit of advanced knowledge, which player would you draft?

      Prospect #1 – Will be an all-NBA first teamer during his 4 year prime.
      Prospect #2 – Will be an on-again-off-again all-star during his 8 year prime.
      Prospect #3 – Will be a durable and consistent starter during his 12 year prime.

    71. “I know not according to the law; that’s why I said “standard English and normal conversation” without including “the law.” The thing you keep saying you have to repeat to me, I already know.”

      Um, but it’s actual U.S. law that determines what is considered private or not on a societal level, not what YOU consider to be “standard English and normal conversation.”

      You’re basically admitting to just making up your own idea of what privacy should be and projecting it upon a real-world case. This is an Is-Ought Fallacy.

    72. Barrettcuda:
      “In 1988, if someone was in his basement with a co-worker and expressed the opinion that their boss was a pussy,(*) the odds that he would be fired would be zero.”

      If it was recorded by the employer’s video or some other type of media where that insult be proven as more than just petty hearsay then the boss can definitely discipline you with termination for insubordination. I don’t know where you’re living but its not the actual world if you aren’t aware of this.

      But it wouldn’t have been “recorded by the employer’s video” in the worker’s basement in 1988.(*) That’s exactly what I’m talking about.

      (*) If you’re U-30 or whatever the historically accurate age to denote the age where you’ve always been around iPhones, yeah, it’s probably tough to imagine a world where there weren’t a bunch of people taking pictures and videos all the time. There was no “employer’s video” recording people in their basements. There weren’t “employer’s videos” recording people at work and if there had been, there would have been an outcry. It was a significantly more private world, by orders of magnitude. What has this cheap and easy video ultimately engendered? Yep, authoritarianism.

    73. hey everyone, last time I checked, the title of this blog is covidvaxblog, not cancelcultureblog. Please stop engaging in off-topic discussion such as the prospects of this season’s New York Knicks or whether you should be fired for calling someone ‘f*ggot’ in a work email

    74. Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada:
      hey everyone, last time I checked,the title of this blog is covidvaxblog, not cancelcultureblog. Please stop engaging in off-topic discussion such as the prospects of this season’s New York Knicks or whether you should be fired for calling someone ‘f*ggot’ in a work email

      here…here …on that…

      as we approach our end of calendar year award season…i think we have a clear frontrunner for the “most likley to follow in bob neptune’s shoes” candidate…

    75. Z – In a vacuum, I think you want the first team All NBA guy for four years. Because generic all stars come in all shapes and sizes and I would rather have Lebron in his prime than two average all stars.

      But yeah, people make different choices about what they want to optimize. Win curve is pretty important too of course.

    76. There’s been reports of tensions between Zion and the Pels medical staff before based on how they handled his recovery in his rookie year so my spidey sense is definitely tingling when there’s this injury situation where mysteriously nobody with the team seems to really know what’s going on. I wonder if Zion is working with his own people on this or something? I’m still definitely not getting the vibe that everything is hunky dory over there.

    77. “But it wouldn’t have been “recorded by the employer’s video” in the worker’s basement in 1988.(*) That’s exactly what I’m talking about.”

      It certainly could have been recorded in 1988. Employers had the right to record you in the workplace even back then as long as they can justify it for business purposes, like when cashiers are recorded handling money. My suggestion to you is to read up on workplace laws.

    78. It’s amazing that one person can have such a dazzling array of shitty takes on so many different topics. Truly a polymath of wack takes

    79. I have zero sympathy for Gruden but if you’re forcing him to resign, please do the same for Daniel Synder and all the toxic people involved in the Washington Football Team. After all, the emails surfaced as a result of the NFL investigation into the WFT. But of course since the NFL is running the inquiry, and not an independent team, they will protect their owners and the thin GREEN line. Synder will probably come away unscathed.

      Shifting to basketball and undeserved coaches, Billups. I’m still pissed Portland passed on Becky Hammon in favor of Billups. Hammon may eventually take over for Pop in San Antonio but I think she wanted the chance to prove herself with another team. Can’t tell me she’s not experienced (way more than Billups) and deserving of the gig. You can argue maybe the NBA is not ready for a female head coach or you don’t know how Dame would’ve reacted to the hire but how that played out just rubbed me the wrong way.

      And Jason Kidd in Dallas should not be anywhere near a team, let alone one with an all time player like Doncic.

    80. Wait! Can we make Dolan resign?

      This is a fantastic idea. I think we are finally onto something!

    81. “A worker’s basement isn’t the “workplace.””

      Oh, I misunderstood your analogy/ You mean someone’s own house? Then no. But your analogy doesn’t apply. An employee owns his own basement. It’s not a workplace issue. Gruden’s emails are most definitely work-related and the property of his company and the company email account he sends them to.

    82. And that’s still totally form over substance.

      Change the analogy from a worker talking to a co-worker in his basement to a worker talking to a co-worker in his office with the door closed in 1988. Result’s the same. The plain English “privacy” of the conversation doesn’t change. Both are private conversations, the place they happen doesn’t matter at all.

      Nor does the Gruden situation even turn on the technicality of the employer’s rights over the email. If the very same emails had leaked from his personal Gmail account, the result would be exactly the same. Not a single Grudenfrueudist would be saying “Oh, he got a raw deal; he used Gmail.”

      The real distinction is the one I made in my first salvo — merely harboring bad thoughts versus expressing bad thoughts publicly. The latter have always been punished, even under legacy old school media conditions. The former is a newfangled development, with big huge whiffs of authoritarianism and thoughtcrime.

    83. E, all merc’d out: In 1988, if someone was in his basement with a co-worker and expressed the opinion that their boss was a pussy,(*) the odds that he would be fired would be zero. If the co-worker tried to rat him out and ran to the local newspaper, the local newspaper wouldn’t print anything about it.

      No, but if someone was in their basement having a sexual liaison with someone of the same sex they could, and many times were, fired if their boss found out. So, what’s your point?

    84. BTW I have to give it to E to steer the conversation towards what constitutes private conversation, so we ignore that he’s taking time out of his life to defend and lend sympathy to an asshole who has revealed himself to be a vile, hateful, bigoted small minded idiot. He’s been “here’s the thing…” on it for like 3+ hours now.

    85. Noble principles sometimes get to be used by, or benefit, vile, hateful assholes. The fourth amendment is used all the time by murderers and other random felons to get set free.

    86. There are people on this site with whom I passionately disagree about matters both Knicks and real life-related, but who are willing to have a real debate with me and others about them. And then there are people on this site — or, in some cases, people who have been banned from this site — who will die on every goddamned stupid hill there is, never giving an inch, never remotely conversing in good faith, and who are thus not worth engaging with at all. And the more that any of us try to engage with these people, the more frustrating this site can be to read.

    87. Mike Kurylo:
      BTW I have to give it to E to steer the conversation towards what constitutes private conversation, so we ignore that he’s taking time out of his life to defend and lend sympathy to an asshole who has revealed himself to be a vile, hateful, bigoted small minded idiot. He’s been “here’s the thing…” on it for like 3+ hours now.

      Wait. So Gruden isn’t an Orwellian hero guilty of nothing more than thoughtcrime?
      :-)

    88. “And the more that any of us try to engage with these people, the more frustrating this site can be to read.”

      I am looking forward to a seminar on how to implement this not engaging thing in practice Alan. I do think between the previous administration and pandemic it has gotten pretty hard to ignore when someone leaves a matzo ball out there.

      But anyway, preseason game baby! Maybe TNFH will give us some live reportage.

    89. If you’re talking about me, Alan, I’m conversing in entirely good faith and entirely respectfully. I believe exactly what I say and haven’t said a mean thing about anyone. As far as debate, I’m not sure exactly how this differs in the least from an honest and open debate. I say my thing, they say theirs, we engage each other’s points, etc.

      And I’ve given plenty of inches. I’ve said over and over that if Gruden had said something like “The NFL shouldn’t be drafting queers” he’d have been rightly fired.

      It’s actually kind of depressing that an honest and respectful discussion could be termed “frustrating to read.” How is it frustrating? Because I won’t “concede” what I believe and what I’ve honestly explained, after people other than me started the political ball rolling? Really? I don’t expect other people to “concede,” so why should I?

    90. I am looking forward to a seminar on how to implement this not engaging thing in practice Alan.

      Step 1. Do not respond.
      Step 2. Post about other stuff.
      Step 3. Do not respond.
      Step 4. Did I mention do not respond?

      It’s a very simple process, actually.

    91. From my perspective it’s:

      Step 1: Don’t turn the thread into politics and then expect everyone else to refrain from politics.
      Step 2: See Step 1.

    92. I have to say, I am proud of myself for not directly responding, but then I had to editorialize a little bit.

      Alright, Deuce and Grimes, Episode 4. Lets do this!

      If Brian doesn’t post a link I will.

    93. I’m going to listen to some 60s garage punk till the game from Pebbles vol5:
      The Plague – Go away

    94. @IanBegley
      Tom Thibodeau says Kemba Walker is out due to rest and Nerlens Noel is getting closer to returning to the court. Noel won’t play vs. DET tonight.

      By god, is that Deuce McBride’s music I hear?!?!?

      (And/or Quentin Grimes’ music if IQ is primarily a point guard tonight?!?!?)

    95. E, all merc’d out:
      From my perspective it’s:

      Step 1:Don’t turn the thread into politics and then expect everyone else to refrain from politics.
      Step 2:See Step 1.

      really?

      if you go back up the thread…Hubert raised the Gruden point and there was one reply but neither was per se “Political”…however, in very predictable fashioin…like the dog waiting for the owner to toss the ball…you pounced on it and said it was inevitable that politics was going to be brought into the thread…yeah…right..because you fucking brought it into the thread…gtfoh…

    96. Kemba out so possibly IQ starting? I think Thibs would rather keep Rose with the second unit

    97. @FredKatz
      Knicks starters:

      Derrick Rose
      Evan Fournier
      RJ Barrett
      Julius Randle
      Taj Gibson

    98. Yeah, the thing a lot of people tend to do with things like Gruden or vaccines or Kyrie is to interject them and then say they aren’t “political” when they obviously are in every dimension. Cultural, too. Same thing. I suppose it’s possible that some people don’t think they are because they spend too much time hearing and reading exactly the same lockstep things, which makes them think that it’s somehow “outside of politics.” (And then when they hear something non-lockstep, it’s a source of “frustration.”)

      I’m not going to be a dick and sit around policing the threads for “politics,” and never have, but from time to time when I get up in the morning and turn on KB and see it, I might respond. I would presume that if I was the first to interject it, which I rarely if ever do, people would hop all over my shit, too. They hop all over my shit when I’m not the first to interject it, so it stands to reason.

    99. @pepper
      If you like compilations and heavy psych/underground hard rock check out the “Brown Acid” series. They’re my latest addiction.

    100. kevin5318:
      @FredKatz
      Knicks starters:

      Derrick Rose
      Evan Fournier
      RJ Barrett
      Julius Randle
      Taj Gibson

      Meh. Would rather see IQ run with the starters. Rose and Randle have generally not been a great combo, it feels like.

    101. Yeah, the thing a lot of people tend to do with things like Gruden or vaccines or Kyrie is to interject them and then say they aren’t “political” when they obviously are in every dimension.

      They’re political. Of course they are. Politics is nothing if not the relationship between the individual and any given polity, or a polity and another polity. In this case, Gruden’s exercise of his right, over third-party-monitored email, to deploy the word “faggot” and the term “clueless anti football pussy” (sic) lost out to the NFL’s assertion, to whatever ends, that its franchises’ head coaches not deploy the word “faggot” and the term “clueless anti football pussy” in describing its very commissioner. A mere thought-crime! He dun it. And now he’s unemployed because we do indeed live in a society. And you’re clutching your pearls over it. Cool.

      When’s opening night, again?

    102. When’s opening night, again?

      Close enough that Al Horford won’t be playing against us due to just testing positive for Covid.

    103. We all prefer to watch our youngest and sexiest players proving that they were steals but ol’Thibs has to build a stable situation before checking out rooks
      Patience gentlemen

    104. Would be funny and sad if Thibs only ran a 9 man rotation tonight to avoid playing Deuce and Grimes. On IQ I’m fine with him getting main ball handler reps with the bench unit. I’m guessing he will get more minutes than Rose tonight anyways

    105. Knew Your Nicks:
      @pepper
      If you like compilations and heavy psych/underground hard rock check out the “Brown Acid” series. They’re my latest addiction.

      check out

      Scarey Business
      Uptight Tonight

      both of those compliation sets are pretty good also..

    106. Let me get this argument straight. The big thing that has changed is that 30 years ago Gruden wouldn’t have been exposed to as many things that could have recorded his conversation so he might not have gotten caught and that is somehow better. I’m sorry just because bigots could hide better 30 years ago doesn’t make it better. If Gruden thinks the way he does it 100% affects his hiring and firing practices whether or not it is obvious.

      Rooting out bigots from places of power is never a bad thing. I am all for privacy and I think we have lost a lot over the last 30 years but giving less cover to assholes is not something I am sad about.

      This was not a thoughtcrime. Gruden said terrible things got caught and got in trouble. That is a good thing. The end.

    107. #check out

      Scarey Business
      Uptight Tonight#

      Never heard of these 2 but the label (big beat) is a very trusted one!
      Uptight Tonight seems like a very strong one for beginners since it’s got mostly classics that are in many comps but the other one seems a good one to put on my wishlist! Thanks man!

    108. The way Porzingis looks tonight Jason Kidd is the early favorite for coach of the year. He’s playing excellent center on both sides of the court. He looks fresher, thicker, stronger, and happier. The Knicks would be contenders with this version of Porzingis at Center.

    109. It is good that Gruden was called out, but it’s also true that part of his crime was getting caught. He seems to have said so many wrong things, it would be surprising that a lot of people in the NFL didn’t know his thoughts. But nothing happened until the outside world knew them too. And that has nothing to do with new technology. When a public figure’s actual crummy thoughts are revealed to the public it’s trouble for him or her, no matter what time period he lives in.

    110. You Can’t Handle The Truth:
      The way Porzingis looks tonight Jason Kidd is the early favorite for coach of the year. He’s playing excellent center on both sides of the court.He looks fresher, thicker, stronger, and happier.The Knicks would be contenders with this version of Porzingis at Center.

      Pump the brakes a bit dude, it’s preseason.

      (And the LaMelo-stans probably don’t want to hear he’s 2-10)

    111. needed to re-up my league pass, yay, that’s done so now:

      I got a color tv
      so I can see
      the Knicks play basketball

      oh yeah :)

      real happy to welcome mike and clyde back in to my home…man, how lucky are we…

    112. Ben R: Let me get this argument straight. The big thing that has changed is that 30 years ago Gruden wouldn’t have been exposed to as many things that could have recorded his conversation so he might not have gotten caught and that is somehow better.

      And bear in mind that his conversation wasn’t “caught”, he literally wrote it down and sent it to people.

    113. Change the analogy from a worker talking to a co-worker in his basement to a worker talking to a co-worker in his office with the door closed in 1988. conversation doesn’t change. Both are private conversations, the place they happen doesn’t matter at all.

      This is categorically false. The spaces where we interact are the very basis of what constitutes public vs. private conversation. There are certain places where certain conversations are acceptably private between the parties involved and others where you don’t have an expectation of privacy. If I am in therapy then I can expect privacy in my conversation with my therapist if I use a slur. If I am in a workspace—which includes company owned email system—then I can’t expect privacy from my employers.

    114. Saying that from your perspective the Gruden firing is political begs the question:

      “Which political party gains when employees try to keep homosexuals from gaining employment in their industry?”

      “Which political party wants a man who says racist jokes deserves to keep their multi-million high-profile dollar job?”

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