Knicks Morning News (2021.09.26)

  • Key issues facing the Knicks as season set to get underway – The Madison Leader Gazette
    [wmleader.com] — Sunday, September 26, 2021 5:09:08 AM

    Key issues facing the Knicks as season set to get underway  The Madison Leader Gazette

  • Nets rivals watch: how the latest Sixers, Knicks updates impact Brooklyn – ClutchPoints
    [clutchpoints.com] — Saturday, September 25, 2021 8:35:01 PM

    Nets rivals watch: how the latest Sixers, Knicks updates impact Brooklyn  ClutchPoints

  • COVID New York City Update: Knicks fully vaccinated, some Nets not yet eligible to play home games as training camps set to begin – WABC-TV
    [abc7ny.com] — Saturday, September 25, 2021 1:51:18 PM

    COVID New York City Update: Knicks fully vaccinated, some Nets not yet eligible to play home games as training camps set to begin  WABC-TV

  • Knicks Add Wayne Selden To Camp Roster – hoopsrumors.com
    [www.hoopsrumors.com] — Saturday, September 25, 2021 1:08:00 PM

    Knicks Add Wayne Selden To Camp Roster  hoopsrumors.com

  • Examining the Knicks roster heading into training camp – New York Post
    [nypost.com] — Saturday, September 25, 2021 12:53:00 PM

    Examining the Knicks roster heading into training camp  New York Post Knicks Rumors: NY staying aggressive in pursuit of a Superstar trade  Daily KnicksKnicks organization is fully vaccinated, can comply completely with NYC COVID-19 mandate  Yahoo SportsKnicks news: New York ‘aggressive’ in pursuit of blockbuster trade  ClutchPointsOpinion: Former All-Star DeMarcus Cousins? The Brooklyn Nets, New York Knicks And Indiana Pacers Should Take A Look At The Former Kings, Pelicans, Warriors, Rockets And Clippers Star  Sports IllustratedView Full Coverage on Google News

  • Michael Jordan Knew Knicks Fans Were Scared When He Came to Madison Square Garden Since He Always Put On a Show: ‘There’s Some People That Don’t Want to See Me Come There, but Tough S***’ – Sportscasting
    [www.sportscasting.com] — Saturday, September 25, 2021 12:50:46 PM

    Michael Jordan Knew Knicks Fans Were Scared When He Came to Madison Square Garden Since He Always Put On a Show: ‘There’s Some People That Don’t Want to See Me Come There, but Tough S***’  Sportscasting

  • Knicks News: Leon Rose details ‘aggressive’ approach, team signs Wayne Selden to camp roster – Yardbarker
    [www.yardbarker.com] — Saturday, September 25, 2021 11:24:31 AM

    Knicks News: Leon Rose details ‘aggressive’ approach, team signs Wayne Selden to camp roster  Yardbarker

  • Knicks Rumors: NY staying aggressive in pursuit of a Superstar trade – Daily Knicks
    [dailyknicks.com] — Saturday, September 25, 2021 11:16:00 AM

    Knicks Rumors: NY staying aggressive in pursuit of a Superstar trade  Daily KnicksExamining the Knicks roster heading into training camp  New York Post New York Knicks fully vaccinated, in compliance with New York City mandate, GM Scott Perry says  ESPNKnicks news: New York ‘aggressive’ in pursuit of blockbuster trade  ClutchPointsKnicks say they’re fully vaccinated and eligible to play  NBC SportsView Full Coverage on Google News

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    61 thoughts to “Knicks Morning News (2021.09.26)”

    1. From the article Alan shared on the last thread, i think everyone should listen to Kareem’s words:

      “The NBA should insist that all players and staff are vaccinated or remove them from the team,” NBA legend Kareem Abdul-Jabbar tells Rolling Stone. “There is no room for players who are willing to risk the health and lives of their teammates, the staff and the fans simply because they are unable to grasp the seriousness of the situation or do the necessary research. What I find especially disingenuous about the vaccine deniers is their arrogance at disbelieving immunology and other medical experts. Yet, if their child was sick or they themselves needed emergency medical treatment, how quickly would they do exactly what those same experts told them to do?”

      In case you haven’t already read the article, here’s the link: https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-features/nba-anti-vaxxers-covid-1231988/

    2. A reporter didn’t recognize Jordan Clarkson and asked him if he went to Jazz games!? :O
      He replied: “Yeah, a lot”
      Hilarious! LOLOL!

    3. Idk, I think Kyrie should be allowed to not get vaxed and nyc (or the nets, or both) should be allowed to tell him he can’t play without getting vaxed. Whether he gets paid should depend on what his contract with the Nets says. If he’s willing to play and practice but regulations don’t allow for it, I’m not sure if he should be financially penalized for making what is ultimately a personal health decision, unless his contract has stipulations that would require him to. It’s a dumb decision, and it potentially has negative externalities on his team and society, but it is his to make. He’s not an at will employee and whether he gets paid is determined by the CBA and his contract.

    4. howdy unreason, I got one for ya, was reflecting the other day on exactly why I haven’t spent more than a few days sober over the last 30 years or so…

      in my head I equate it to submerging myself inside a warm pool, and while underwater I feel insulated from the sights and sounds of the world around me…I feel safe, warm and protected…

      I think I’m trying to wrap my mind in a cocoon that blocks out a good bit of all the overwhelming sensory input I always feel…

      tough part is: even with about 100 mg of mostly indica dominant thc and 1 mg of xanax in me daily, I’m still waaaaay more lucid than I care to be…the adrenaline I feel from anxiety simply burns through any kind of “blocker” I’m trying to use…

      I feel like wolverine sitting at a bar trying to get drunk, that shit just ain’t happening, bub…

      okay, fair trade please – tell me about a recent time unreason where you had a dining experience which far exceeded your expectations…

    5. I got an odd question to ask, anyone here good on neolithic, preferably late paleolithic (15k to 10k bc) cultures/societies?

      I’m curious to know what may have been going on culturally/societally prior to the most recent ice melt…

      it’s tough, I’m not sure exactly what latitudes the ice sheets where at, and generally a large portion of communities would settle by the water’s edge, which is now under about 300 feet of water…

      I know though there’s a lot of work being done now to investigate and research our continental shelves in certain areas of the world…

    6. BJ: penalized for making what is ultimately a personal health decision

      Sorry BJ, but I think that’s the wrong way to frame it. It’s also a personal decision to throw your lit cigarette out the car window in California during the drought.

      I’d love a thread on the Paleolithic.

    7. Raven: Sorry BJ, but I think that’s the wrong way to frame it. It’s also a personal decision to throw your lit cigarette out the car window in California during the drought.

      I’d love a thread on the Paleolithic.

      I think that’s a bad analogy. You are liable if you negligently start a wildfire in California because there are laws against doing so. There is no law against not being vaccinated.

      Even the negative externalities are debatable for someone in Kyrie’s position. He doesn’t need to go out to grocery stores or anywhere he would circulate with the general population. He’s not allowed to go out to bars or clubs in NYC. New York has a vaccination rate over 70% and a lot of the unvaccinated have some level of immunity from being exposed to Covid and recovering. It’s a bit of a free rider problem, but the risk posed by unvaccinated people is not what it once was and what risk there is is concentrated on unvaccinated people who haven’t been exposed and have other risk factors.

      Also who really believes Kyrie wasn’t one of the “mystery Nets” that already tested positive. If he was then his immunoprotection status would not be meaningfully different from a vaccinated person. So then what would be the justification for not paying out a contract that the Nets had agreed to?

    8. Also, throwback to a few threads ago but I spotted Stratos Dionyssiou’s Ta Orthodoxa at my record store for a dollar and picked up the vinyl. Just listened to side A love it so far really took me back to Greece.

    9. BJ: I think that’s a bad analogy. You are liable if you negligently start a wildfire in California because there are laws against doing so. There is no law against not being vaccinated.

      I disagree. I would argue that if a non-vaxxed person who did not have prior infection and therefor anitbodies could be proven to be the person who caused the infection of another then that person would be liable under tort law. The claim that it would almost impossible to prove that one person was the infector does not vitiate the premise that it is unreasonable ( and immoral) to expose others to a potentially deadly virus. People have successfully sued others who have transmitted STDs.

    10. You can sue someone who knowingly infected you with an STD without telling you their infective status. This requires them to know they have the STD and also not inform you that they have it. I don’t see how that applies to an employee under a CBA with a contract not getting vaccinated.

    11. Even the negative externalities are debatable for someone in Kyrie’s position. He doesn’t need to go out to grocery stores or anywhere he would circulate with the general population.

      Unvaccinated people are not being asked to be held captive in his home… just not to be in massive public indoor gatherings, which are one of the riskiest settings for covid transmission, i think that is reasonable.

      EDIT: I think I missed the point

    12. So, re-reading a bit, I guess the point is about Kyrie facing financial penalty because he is not willing to put his health at “risk” by being vaccinated. I think he should forfeit his pay in that case. I think the analogy would be the following: If a healthy player decides to retire in order to preserve his knees, then he would would lose money of his contract. (not a very reallistic situation, since there would be injuries / insurance meddling things, but I think you get the point)

    13. Am I a bad Giants fan for deeply wanting them to lose? I’ve been quietly rooting against them this whole game. This organization is too tolerant of ongoing failure. They only take action when there’s a dumpster fire. So we need a dumpster fire.

    14. iserp:
      So, re-reading a bit, I guess the point is about Kyrie facing financial penalty because he is not willing to put his health at “risk” by being vaccinated. I think he should forfeit his pay in that case. I think the analogy would be the following: If a healthy player decides to retire in order to preserve his knees, then he would would lose money of his contract. (not a very reallistic situation, since there would be injuries / insurance meddling things, but I think you get the point)

      I think the better analogy would be if the team wants Kyrie to have a procedure on his knee but he says he is healthy and refuses to get the procedure. If they don’t play him in that scenario they are still required to pay out his contract, right?

    15. A recent study from a prison population where it’s easier to study Covid transmission suggested the following.

      90% of the inmates that were not vaccinated caught Covid.

      70% of the inmates that were vaccinated caught Covid.

      There were 4 deaths. 3 were unvaccinated and 1 was vaccinated.

      The prisoners that were vaccinated were vaccinated 4 month ago.

      Those results are consistent with data coming out of Israel. The vaccine is still very effective at preventing “serious” cases, but loses efficacy to prevent transmission and spread after a few months. Then it slowly deteriorates further over time (as does it’s ability to prevent serious cases). That’s why Israel is giving out boosters and the US is starting to give out boosters to the elderly and other high risk people once they reach 6 months since vaccination.

      NBA players will probably need boosters at some point too.

      But right now, the chances of vaccinated NBA players catching it would not be very different if they were all vaccinated or just mostly vaccinated (as is the case). Both vaccinated and unvaccinated people are catching it and spreading in large numbers even if it’s worse and more severe among unvaccinated.

      The chances of a young super healthy vaccinated player getting a serious case from one of the 40-50 (or whatever) unvaccinated players has got be extremely low. They have more to fear from all the women and people they club and sleep with than 40-50 guys like Kyrie (and probably not just because of Covid). They would have virtually nothing to fear if guys like Kyrie would at least submit to regular testing like last year. No matter what, I’d bet almost anything some vaccinated players are going to get it and spread it to other vaccinated players this year. It’s seems inevitable. IMO, they should strongly encourage vaccination and educate the players, but I think they are over the top if they won’t let them play given that vaccinated people transmit also. Just test them.

    16. Am I a bad Giants fan for deeply wanting them to lose? I’ve been quietly rooting against them this whole game. This organization is too tolerant of ongoing failure. They only take action when there’s a dumpster fire. So we need a dumpster fire.

      I’ve been here for multiple seasons at this point. I watch most Giants games but I don’t even follow the NFL closely and I was still able to tell years ago that Gettleman didn’t know his ass from his elbows. Clown organization.

    17. Also who really believes Kyrie wasn’t one of the “mystery Nets” that already tested positive. If he was then his immunoprotection status would not be meaningfully different from a vaccinated person.

      If a player can be shown via antibody test to have already have Covid, he has SUPERIOR protection than vaccination. That has been proven. The only debate left in that area is how long it will last, but it’s better and lasts longer. Anyone like that should be considered equal or superior to someone with a vaccination card. My guess is the only reason they aren’t telling people that broadly is that they are afraid there are people out there crazy enough to try to catch Covid rather than getting vaccinated. The risks of Covid are massively larger than the risk of vaccination. So even if the immunity is better from infection, you’d have to be nuts to try to catch it. Unfortunately, a lot of people can’t do that math.

    18. geo: okay, fair trade please – tell me about a recent time unreason where you had a dining experience which far exceeded your expectations…

      A few weeks ago, on a balmy summer evening, we were lounging in makeshift seating under a tree in a friend’s small backyard garden on the outskirts of Toulouse. A semi-dilapidated fence around the yard was covered with sweet-scented vines and songbirds were going off in the tree above us as the light faded and we lit candles everywhere. My wife’s oldest friend – a lightning storm waiting to break on her calmest days – made us a salad for the ages. While she cooked and chatted with us through the window, we munched idly on fig saucisson and extra creamy mild blue cheese and a fresh baguette we’d bought at the butcher, creamery, and bakery that morning. The salad was very simple, made from a few local greens lightly dressed, but with plentiful plump slices of juicy mango. Each tall salad serving had a big thick steak-like slab of fois on top. She had quickly pan-seared the slabs on both sides giving them a perfect seal and texture. We each had a small side of fresh papardelle with just olive oil and garlic for sauce. Her boyfriend comes from an old winemaking family in Bordeaux. He brought several amazing bottles. The two I remember are a young fresh light-bodied Beaujolais we had with the salad, and a dusty old bottle of marc from the deep recesses of his grandmother’s wine cellar. I’d never had marc before. It’s distilled from the pomace of white wine grapes and tastes kind of like cognac or armagnac but not as dry. It was incredible. We all got slowly smashed and danced and laughed like kids until the wee hours. No wild arguments broke out and nobody got ill. All of it was great, but the mango salad with fois and the marc are what will stay with me.

    19. BJ: I think the better analogy would be if the team wants Kyrie to have a procedure on his knee but he says he is healthy and refuses to get the procedure. If they don’t play him in that scenario they are still required to pay out his contract, right?

      That is a bad analogy, because in that case Kyrie could go on play (without the procedure) although perhaps in a diminished way.

      In the covid case the team is not forcing anything on the player, it is about complying with local laws. Kyrie can’t play if he is unvaccinated. It is not about satisfying an optional desire of the team.

      I presented my analogy in a way that the player has total control about playing or not playing and chooses not to, while the team has no interference whatsoever (aside from not paying if the player does not comply with his contract).

    20. Shams Charania: Phoenix Suns star Devin Booker will miss time to start training camp this upcoming week due to health and safety protocols. – via Twitter ShamsCharania

      Personally, I wouldn’t be shocked if Devin Booker is vaccinated. It may have started even faster than I thought.

    21. I think the better question is: is it within the NBA’s purview to demand vaccination of its players? Obviously it is within the purview of hospitals to do so, but many corporate and university workplaces also are beginning to demand vaccination by their workforce or risk financial penalty or even firing. If it holds in those latter cases it should hold in the NBA’s case, especially given the close contact people are often in, no? Nevermind the larger moral context, where it’s important to have as many people vaccinated as possible. Prominent organizations like the NBA are in a great position to signal to vaccine-hesitant populations that the vaccine is safe and effective, and a vaxx mandate and a successful lockdown free NBA season would be the perfect way to bring that point across. It seems to me that it’s in the NBA’s business interests to demand vaccination and also the morally best option available, so I have no problem with a mandate even if the personal risk to the Kyries and Wigginses of the league and the larger social risk they pose is actually quite low.

      A question whose answer might be very relevant: does the NBA already demand other forms of vaccination (eg the vaccines everyone has for public school) for its players?

    22. I’m with you, Hubert. The giants need to start over from scratch. No more half measures.

      Unfortunately, so long as John Mara remains the owner, half measures are what we will get. How excited are you for the Kevin Abrams Era?!?!

    23. Kyrie is violating the law. The relevant analogy is if he demanded to play naked. The team may be fine with Kyrie being naked or unvaccinated (hypothetically), but it’s illegal and so not under the team’s control. It would not surprise me if the Nets rather he play, presumably with some sort of testing regimen similar to last year. They’ve invested a lot of money in Kyrie. He should not get paid.

      Getting vaccinated is completely under Kyries control & the Nets have no say in his getting vaccinated or local laws. As a General principle the party that has agency/control over the issue should be held liable.

      There should be a clause in Kyrie’s contract, as there should be in any contract, that reflects liability for not complying with the law.

      There’s no downside to getting vaccinated even if you have natural antibodies, it’s no excuse for Kyrie.

      I haven’t seen any evidence that would lead me to believe those statements are proven anyways. The only study I know of was an observational study contingent on people voluntarily showing up for covid testing. It’s reasonable to assume the unvaccinated won’t voluntarily get show up for testing because they share a fundamental belief the virus isn’t dangerous and that the doctors don’t have their best interest in mind.

    24. Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada: I think the better question is: is it within the NBA’s purview to demand vaccination of its players?

      I think it is. I just think it “may” be the wrong policy.

      The future of the NBA is probably going to involve multiple boosters and many cases of Covid anyway. And God forbid one of these players that didn’t want it gets a case myocarditis or something else related to the vaccine, then they have huge problem on their hands.

      They made it through a full season with just careful testing and some vaccination. If they can get the players and staff up to 95% vaccinated overall and test those that aren’t they are in a massively better position than they were last year.

      If the vaccine is not protecting you from catching it really well anymore (which it’s not), not preventing you from spreading it easily (which it’s not anymore), or getting a serious case (which it’s still doing well but not as well as hoped). then maybe the approach was a failure other than getting Pfizer rich and buying us some time to figure out a better way (therapeutics may be a better approach). I don’t want to get boosters and shots for different variants every 6 months either.

    25. that was beautiful, thank you unreason…

      it’s not the whole world i’m trying to block out, mostly just the humanity part of it…your story illustrates the opportunity for different possibilities…

      i’m going to take the opportunity to examine your query: applications to place-based health research – open science large-scale research on healthcare data? as a means for preparing myself for potentially serving in this type role…

      most of my contacts are limited to logistics, but, i do know a few smart folks in the company whom may be able to help direct me…it’s a great exercise for me – thank you :)

    26. Silky,

      Yes corporations and universities fire people for not being vaccinated. Those are at will employees. Kyrie is not an at will employee, he has the CBA and a contract. There is a reason the NBA has imposed a vaccination mandate on pretty much every member of the teams organization that will be within 15 feet of the players, but not on the players themselves. If they wanted to do that they would have to collectively bargain for it with the Player’s Association.

      Just like Kyrie can’t say he quits and get a contract with another team, the Nets can’t just stop paying him. The fact that NYC passed a law that unvaccinated people can’t enter the arena doesn’t cancel the contract.

      I don’t think the contract would allow the Nets to not pay him, but even if they could they wouldn’t because they’d still need him for road games. It would be a horrible look to other players since they could just trade him to a team that could play him instead of forcing the issue by keeping and not paying him…

    27. Strat

      I honestly don’t think a prison study is a good model for general transmission. The advantage is that it’s a controlled environment. The massive disadvantage is that it’s a highly unnatural setting compared to normal life, with people pretty closely packed together indoors without great ventilation. All sorts of diseases move through prisons like wildfire, so of course even the vaccinated transmission is quite higher than you’d see normally. The unvaccinated transmission is basically maxed out, so the delta between vaccinated and unvaccinated is lower than it should be. The study has something interesting to say about prisons but I don’t think it’s generalizable in the way you are implying.

    28. If NYC passed a law that college professors need to have a PhD, what would happen to tenured professors that only had a masters degree? Could universities stop paying them? They don’t even have a CBA…

    29. I feel like all these stands against the unvaccinated are also ignoring who is actually unvaccinated in NYC. The communities with the lowest vaccination rates are
      African American and Jewish. Since both communities have good reason to be skeptical of the medical community given that both were experimented on in a horrific and unethical manner, I think that a heightened need for autonomy is understandable.

    30. Iserp

      NYC says Kyrie can’t enter Barclays if he’s unvaccinated. But the Nets don’t HAVE to play their home games there. Teams play at alternate venues all the time, and if the Nets moved their home games back to Jersey then there would be no obstacle to Kyrie playing. I think they are obligated to pay him if he is willing to play.

    31. There is a zero percent chance they move their stadium for one unvaccinated player. Zero.

    32. Jowles

      I think you know I didn’t say they are going to move their stadium. I’m just saying if the Nets argue that Kyrie shouldn’t be paid because he can’t play, then Kyrie could argue that he is willing to play and would be able to at any venue outside of NYC. I’ve said before that I don’t think it will come to that, just saying Kyrie will almost certainly get paid.

    33. I don’t even think it’s a definite lock that Kyrie not getting vaccinated makes unvaccinated people less likely to get vaxed. Kyrie is pretty widely thought of as kind of a kook. Him doing something paints it as more fringe and crazy. Also the more coverage of him not being vaccinated keeps the idea of getting vaccinated in the news and is a reminder to people who were just hesitant before or too busy. It’s kind of like getting endorsed by David Duke, some people who were never getting vaxed are still not getting vaxed, but some people on the fence won’t want to be in the same boat as Kyrie.

    34. BJ, even with a union contract you have to go to work to get paid. I haven’t read an NBA contract, but I’m sure it, and the CBA, require attendance at training camp and at games and has lots of clauses that talk about what happens to pay if you miss a game for various reasons. Kyrie is actually lucky he could skip half the games and get paid for the other half. In most companies, even ones with union contracts, if you don’t show up for work you get fired. It’s not well, we just won’t pay you for that day. Ditto with safety regulations. If you don’t follow them you violated conditions of employment and can be fired.

    35. Again, most employment contracts will have a clause that requires the employee to follow the law. If Kyrie isn’t following the law, then he forfeits his pay for those games.

      Tenured academics have contracts. Violations of contracts allow employers to fire employees. Undoubtedly, violating the law is grounds for termination. There’s several other issues with your hypothetical, but yes you can fire tenured academics for not getting vaccinated if required by the university or by law.

    36. We really need to start calling the Covid shot a flu shot. It clearly isn’t a vaccine. I don’t understand why it hasn’t been reworked for the variants by Pfizer because that’s the approach they’re going to have to take with it for the shot to remain effective.

      The other thing to remember is that the shot only protects against the spike protein which is why we’re having such a problem with the variants.

      Optimistically I’m hoping one more year from now this thing will have mutated itself down to more near the common cold level. Pessimistic me thinks it will probably take two more years.

    37. “If the vaccine is not protecting you from catching it really well anymore (which it’s not), not preventing you from spreading it easily (which it’s not anymore),“

      Strat – I am curious why you this this?

      Because it isn’t true.

    38. But the NBA doesn’t mandate players get vaccinated. NYC doesn’t require vaccination for visiting players. Players get paid even if they can’t play due to injury. I don’t think the contracts have a requirement to be at the arena. Injured players or those on various forms of leave aren’t at the arena. You have to be available and willing to play when the team asks you to play. If the team doesn’t play you for whatever reason you still get paid.

    39. BJ:
      But the NBA doesn’t mandate players get vaccinated. NYC doesn’t require vaccination for visiting players. Players get paid even if they can’t play due to injury. I don’t think the contracts have a requirement to be at the arena. Injured players or those on various forms of leave aren’t at the arena. You have to be available and willing to play when the team asks you to play. If the team doesn’t play you for whatever reason you still get paid.

      NYC can’t require vaccines for visiting players, it violates the interstate commerce clause. NYC can and is requiring vaccines for local players which includes Kyrie. If Kyrie is opposed to the local NYC vaccine mandate he has the choice to play for a different team or to retire.

    40. The vaccine is quite effective against all variants we have seen so far. The spike protein is pretty homologous between variants. Covid was more dangerous when you haven’t been exposed to anything like it. Exposure even to just the spike protein gives you a good degree of protection, especially from the worst outcomes.

      Antibody protection prevents the virus from infecting you even if you’re exposed. This does fade over time, especially for older people or people with weak immune response. However cell mediated immune response is more durable, and will ensure if you’re infected it won’t be as bad. The challenge from that infection will give you renewed antibody protection.

      IMO boosters should only go to those 80 and over, that is largely who is getting hospitalized and dying out of the vaccinated population. But 65+ is fine to be safe.

      The real ethical issue around vaccines in this country is that we are hoarding doses that should be going out to areas and populations that actually need and want them. Even from a self interested standpoint it doesn’t make sense because that is where the variants are coming from…

    41. *Greek Intermission*

      #Also, throwback to a few threads ago but I spotted Stratos Dionyssiou’s Ta Orthodoxa at my record store for a dollar and picked up the vinyl. Just listened to side A love it so far really took me back to Greece.#

      One of Stratos’ best albums.
      Lots of credits should go tho to the composer Apostolos Kaldaras who’s among the very best of the genre.

      Check out if you like 3 of his “heavy” Top Guns:
      Min perimeneis pia (Mihalis Menidiatis)
      Rixte sto gyali farmaki (Manolis Aggelopoulos)
      Sto trapezi pou ta pino (Stelios Kazantzidis)

    42. NYC isn’t even mandating the vaccine for players, it’s a mandate to enter the arena. Unless Kyrie’s contract requires him to play in that arena I really think they have to pay him.

    43. A general thought on vaccinations. The situation really angers me.

      1) When did not getting vaccinated become an option? It shouldn’t be. It’s social responsibility.

      2) Players that refuse to get vaccinated should be suspended. I hope more cities side with NY and SF.

      3) Why do people who have no idea what they are talking about giving scientific advice? If you have a degree in microbiology with a concentration in virology, I value your scientific opinion. Otherwise, no.

      4) The politicization of this subject is the purest form of evil. If I was writing a scary novel, I might have the devil come to earth, strike a deal with a charismatic politician and have him persuade the feebleminded to avoid all ways to stay safe from a deadly virus that was planted. All this so that the could begin harvesting souls for hell.

      I am scheduled for my booster on Wednesday.
      Oh, I asked Kyrie and he told me I could have his.

    44. BJ:
      NYC isn’t even mandating the vaccine for players, it’s a mandate to enter the arena. Unless Kyrie’s contract requires him to play in that arena I really think they have to pay him.

      I can’t understand why you think this. Of course the team could pay him for not playing if they wanted too, but if he doesn’t show up at his contracted place of work he’s refusing to do what he was hired to do. The arena is his workplace, after all. Of course they don’t have to pay him if he doesn’t show up. I don’t know where you work, but do you really think you could just blow off half your work days and still get paid?

    45. If the vaccine was worse and didn’t give pretty robust protection, I could see an argument for a mandate. In that world the only way to get protection is if everyone gets vaccinated. But luckily that isn’t the world we live in. The vaccine works well and if you are vaccinated you largely are protected. Children have less risk than vaccinated adults.

      Full vaccination would be nice, but vaccination rates are high enough that it wouldn’t make much difference to the vaccinated and children. The vast majority of the benefit would go to the current unvaccinated. At this point in the pandemic, I don’t think a mandate that would have a mostly paternalistic benefit is worth taking away the autonomy of people’s decisions.

      Also a lot of the unvaccinated have immunity from recovery from Covid. So even that benefit is overblown. In terms of selective pressure on the virus, it is probably good that some people have a more broad immune protection against various parts of the virus instead of everyone having protection against the spike. THAT would be a very strong pressure to change the spike. Of course that would probably be a less infective variant, but a lot of people would now be susceptible to it.

      So in a lot of ways not having full vaccination is fine, and seeing as there aren’t many places with low vaccination numbers and low cases of recovered Covid, I’m optimistic we’re close to it being an endemic disease. The numbers have been trending down and even schools opening has made them plateau at worst. It’s too late for a mandate to really do very much. We’d be better off mandating the flu shot TBH, because that strain we might not have been exposed to.

    46. The NBPA is a much stronger Union than any of the ones that have been mentioned. I don’t think what happens at my job is really relevant. But yes, last year I did not show up at work for the vast majority of the days and that was actually encouraged by my employer. Strange days…

    47. Since both communities have good reason to be skeptical of the medical community given that both were experimented on in a horrific and unethical manner

      I’m quite sick of hearing this bullshit excuse for skepticism. This isn’t Tuskegee or Nazi Germany. The whole damn world is taking these shots. If you take a Z-Pack, if you take aspirin, if you take Plan B… you can take the fucking vaccine. The idea that we made one vaccine for the white people and another vaccine for african-americans and jewish communities is beyond ludicrous.

    48. I’d like to think that when the NHL said mandated players to wear helmets following the death of Bill Masterson, they agreed and moved on. But, apparently, they did not, and older players were grandfathered in because they were stubborn and archaic imbeciles. Like with helmets, there is no downside to the vaccine. It’s Pascal’s Wager all over again. I really don’t care whether the holdouts are paid or not while they stand outside the arena (it’s not my money), but I do judge them for it.

      (And, no, there’s no free pass for being black and skeptical. Why? Because even the asshole white men in the government that represent all the most unvaccinated cities and states in the country have gotten the shot. Do Wiggins and Irving really think that Mike Pence went on national television with a needle in his arm just to bamboozle the black community? C’mon guys!)

    49. The people in Tuskegee didn’t think it was Tuskegee either. I understand that there is good science to justify taking the vaccine but if someone isn’t science literate I can understand why they think it’s new and don’t trust it. And at this point I don’t think it’s important enough to force the issue.

    50. Wasn’t there a study that helmets make brain injuries worse because players hit harder and don’t protect themselves and their heads?

    51. It’s not just Tuskegee, black patients are systematically ignored in their interactions with the medical establishment and their symptoms, pain and complaints are minimized and not taken seriously. Skepticism is a rational response. Even if people believe crazy things that they read online or at their church, there should be a pretty unavoidable reason to take away their choice.

    52. BJ:
      GoNY
      I don’t know about basketball but I can promise you I know about microbiology.

      Do you have a degree in it? Can you tell me the difference between RNA and DNA molecules?

    53. Low social trust is a real problem these days. There are certain groups that have very good reasons for having low social trust, and then there are idiot QAnon chucklefucks who believe everything is a conspiracy simply because they are very stupid.

    54. BJ:
      Sugar and strands

      One of several answers that you could have given that hints at some (at least) elementary understanding. Thing is you would therefore know there’s an infinitely lower risk from the vaccine than the disease. You would also know that not attacking it with close to 100% immunization, the disease can and will evolve into more deadly forms. Our society has become delusional and NBA players should be leaders in the effort to get folks vaccinated. Ass-wipes like Kyrie Irving are a stain on our society for their very public “private decisions”. Their ignorance and stupidity is dangerous. It feeds into the distrust.

      I side with Kareem Abdul-Jabbar when it comes to this subject. And
      while I cannot have personal experience as a black person dealing with the medical industry (an accident of birth), I believe black folks haven’t been dealt with equitably because if they were, it would be one of the first things in America where they did get treated fairly.

    55. Hey guys. It’s been a minute. These first 5-6 weeks of the fall sports season here has been craaaay. Haven’t had time until today to pay any attention to my teams and chew the fat with yall.

      Hubert:
      Am I a bad Giants fan for deeply wanting them to lose? I’ve been quietly rooting against them this whole game. This organization is too tolerant of ongoing failure. They only take action when there’s a dumpster fire. So we need a dumpster fire.

      The best thing Mara can do is remove himself from the decision making process and fade into silent ownership. Because I have zero faith that he can make the type of decisions this franchise needs to make once they hit full dumpster-fire level (and honestly it shouldn’t even have to come to that). At this point, he’s just a more classy, upstanding, honorable version of James Dolan. (He thought he got booed today just because the team was 0-2? Oh word?)

      Build a leadership team of non-“Giant Way” people that understand 2020s NFL football and who don’t pine for the old glory days of the 80/90s. There is a deep-rooted organization problem when it comes to basically every aspect of the team, and Mara and “his” people need to realize they can’t do it anymore.

      I don’t need this team to win the “Giant Way”, anymore – maybe that may upset some of the fans, but you know what will bring them back? Winning. Consistent winning. In this era of football, not in 1985, 1990, 2007 or 2010.

    56. JK47:
      Low social trust is a real problem these days. There are certain groups that have very good reasons for having low social trust, and then there are idiot QAnon chucklefucks who believe everything is a conspiracy simply because they are very stupid.

      Indeed.
      I feel the conundrum with many African Americans is that, in this case of Covid, the logic behind the low social trust doesn’t match up with the logic of taking the vaccines.

      Actually, let me word that better: the fear and skepticism that usually would be justified to varying degrees is disallowing people to trust and understand the science behind the vaccines and how they work/what makes them effective. I’ve had conversations with some of my family members who will not give up on their fear or skepticism of the vaccines no matter how much logic you present that makes sense.

    57. People are really hard to understand.

      I tried to get someone to take the vaccine for months. She had a friend who got intubated and had five people who were acquaintances who died. I had a friend who had a terrible case of Covid. I got it and had a pretty mediocre time with it. Nothing moved her.

      Then the Planet Fitness she goes to announced they were requiring vaccination. She got it that week.

      The staff in the building I work in mostly refused to get it. Then last month the management company offered 200 bucks for them to take it. They all took it immediately.

      A lot of people have died for absolutely no fucking reason and there really is no good explanation for it.

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