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Saturday, July 20, 2019

Knicks Morning News (2019.07.06)

  • [FOXsports] Pelicans-Knicks game cut short by earthquake
    (Friday, July 05, 2019 11:39:19 PM)

    Earthquake causes early finish to Knicks-Pelicans Summer League game

  • [YahooSports] Report: Players ‘took notice’ when James Dolan banned Charles Oakley from Knicks games
    (Saturday, July 06, 2019 2:17:49 AM)

    In case you hadn’t heard, the New York Knicks didn’t blow away the NBA in free agency. After a putrid regular season that most fans endured with the hopes that Zion Williamson and some marquee free agents like Kevin Durant and Kyrie Irving were on the way, the team instead ended up with R.J. Barrett and Julius Randle. Those aren’t bad players, but few expect the Knicks to make the playoffs next year.

  • [TheRinger] Report: Players ‘took notice’ when James Dolan banned Charles Oakley from Knicks games
    (Saturday, July 06, 2019 2:17:49 AM)

    In case you hadn’t heard, the New York Knicks didn’t blow away the NBA in free agency. After a putrid regular season that most fans endured with the hopes that Zion Williamson and some marquee free agents like Kevin Durant and Kyrie Irving were on the way, the team instead ended up with R.J. Barrett and Julius Randle. Those aren’t bad players, but few expect the Knicks to make the playoffs next year.

  • [Sports Illustrated] Watch: Earthquake Disrupts Knicks-Pelicans Summer League Game in Las Vegas
    (Friday, July 05, 2019 11:57:51 PM)

    The games at the Thomas & Mack Center were postponed until a later date. 

  • [Sports Illustrated] Knicks Favored to Win Las Vegas Summer League Championship
    (Friday, July 05, 2019 2:21:20 PM)

    Yes, you read that right.

  • [NYPost] Zion Williamson show cut short after knee-to-knee hit
    (Saturday, July 06, 2019 1:56:08 AM)

    LAS VEGAS — The buzz began before noon local time Friday, well before the first of 10 games tipped off on the opening day of the Las Vegas Summer League. A hot sun was beating down on the concrete, though it did little to discourage the never-ending line of fans that zigzagged around the Thomas…

  • [NYPost] Knicks’ Mitchell Robinson gets picked for US Select Team
    (Saturday, July 06, 2019 1:31:23 AM)

    LAS VEGAS — Knicks center Mitchell Robinson will be back in Las Vegas in August. Robinson, coming off a season in which he garnered second-team All-Rookie honors, found out Monday he will be on the Select Team that will practice against the U.S. World Cup team from Aug. 2-8 in Las Vegas, according to a…

  • [NYPost] Earthquake brings entire NBA Summer League to a halt
    (Friday, July 05, 2019 9:13:31 PM)

    LAS VEGAS — Friday night’s Pelicans-Knicks matchup was expected to be a showstopper, just not like this. The summer league game was halted in the middle of play with 7:53 left in the fourth quarter, the Pelicans leading the Knicks, 80-74, after a 7.1-magnitude earthquake shook the Thomas & Mack Center. As the speakers and…

  • [NYPost] Zion Williamson-RJ Barrett clash stopped after fourth-quarter earthquake
    (Friday, July 05, 2019 7:57:39 PM)

    LAS VEGAS — The earth moved in the fourth quarter of Friday night’s ballyhooed summer league-opening showdown between the Pelicans’ Zion Williamson and the Knicks’ RJ Barrett at the Thomas & Mack Center — but not the way you would have expected it. With Williamson sitting out the second half because of left-knee soreness and…

  • [NYPost] Spencer Dinwiddie fanning rivalry flames with Knicks jab
    (Friday, July 05, 2019 6:09:44 PM)

    LAS VEGAS — Spencer Dinwiddie wouldn’t say how much of a role his recruiting played in the Nets landing Kyrie Irving and Kevin Durant. But the guard wasn’t shy in vowing the Nets’ newfound star power will lift them up the standings and boost them up the New York sports pecking order. “We definitely are…

  • [NYPost] Knicks’ free agency whiffs mean its time for an image overhaul
    (Friday, July 05, 2019 1:33:43 PM)

    LAS VEGAS — With $70 million of cap space, Knicks brass bought time instead of a star player. Striking out shouldn’t be shocking when reviewing their past lack of conquests. The Knicks’ narrative for the last several months, despite the league-worst 17-65 record, is the company had changed its image league-wide, changed the culture. Knicks…

  • [NYPost] Why favored Knicks aren’t smart bet to win Vegas summer league
    (Friday, July 05, 2019 12:01:20 PM)

    LAS VEGAS — The offseason for the Knicks has not gone as planned. They missed out on the top pick in the draft lottery, and struck out with both Kyrie Irving and Kevin Durant in free agency. However, not all is lost. The NBA Summer League in Las Vegas tips off Friday, and despite the…

  • [NYPost] Stephen A. Smith is the one man who can save the Knicks
    (Friday, July 05, 2019 6:58:05 AM)

    Stephen A. Smith’s new plan to save the Knicks involves … himself. The ESPN analyst and noted Knicks fan posted a highlight montage of himself piloting the franchise to NBA 2K glory on Twitter. This comes just days after a miserable Smith ranted on Twitter about his team’s failure to nab Kevin Durant and Kyrie…

  • [SNY Knicks] Former Knicks’ free agency target Kawhi Leonard reportedly heading to Clippers
    (Saturday, July 06, 2019 2:31:52 AM)

    Kawhi Leonard stunned the NBA early Saturday morning, committing to the Los Angeles Clippers in free agency and bringing Oklahoma City star Paul George along with him.

  • [SNY Knicks] Knicks’ RJ Barrett calls Summer League debut ‘a great experience’
    (Saturday, July 06, 2019 2:20:16 AM)

    R.J. Barrett didn’t shoot the ball well in his Summer League debut, but Knicks Coach Jud Buechler had a simple message for the rookie after the game: don’t stop shooting.

  • [SNY Knicks] Knicks-Pelicans Summer League game cancelled due to earthquake
    (Friday, July 05, 2019 11:48:30 PM)

    The Knicks’ Summer League debut against the Pelicans was stopped with 7:53 left in the fourth quarter due to an earthquake.

  • [SNY Knicks] Why NBA’s star free agents are avoiding Knicks
    (Friday, July 05, 2019 3:27:19 PM)

    To make matters worse, these stars would rather play for New York’s other team, the Brooklyn Nets, who do not carry as much cachet as the Knicks.

  • [SNY Knicks] Sources: Elfrid Payton will have ‘every opportunity’ to win Knicks’ starting PG job
    (Friday, July 05, 2019 1:21:31 PM)

    Elfrid Payton will have ‘every opportunity’ to win the Knicks’ starting point guard position over Dennis Smith Jr., according to SNY sources.

  • [SNY Knicks] Latest updates from Knicks Summer League: Henry Ellenson leaves team
    (Friday, July 05, 2019 3:38:02 PM)

    Knicks fans will get an early look at some of the team’s young talent during the Summer League schedule.

  • [SNY Knicks] Where the Knicks stand among NBA Summer League betting favorites
    (Friday, July 05, 2019 1:43:38 PM)

    The Knicks’ Summer League team consisting of RJ Barrett, Mitchell Robinson and Kevin Knox may be tough to beat.

  • [SNY Knicks] Knicks’ Mitchell Robinson invited to USA Select Team
    (Friday, July 05, 2019 12:37:01 PM)

    Mitchell Robinson will get a chance to play with USA Basketball this summer.

  • [ESPN] Knicks favored to win Vegas Summer League title
    (Friday, July 05, 2019 8:56:12 AM)

    The Knicks, led by No. 3 overall draft pick RJ Barrett, are the 8-1 favorites to win the Las Vegas Summer League title, according to Caesars Sportsbook.

  • [ESPN] The hours leading up to Zion Williamson’s pro debut
    (Friday, July 05, 2019 4:51:19 PM)

    Zion Williamson’s day included a chat with AD, an energetic crowd that included LeBron, a sore knee and a game cut short by an earthquake.

  • [ESPN] Vegas Summer League postponed by 7.1 quake
    (Saturday, July 06, 2019 12:01:19 AM)

    A 7.1 magnitude earthquake hit in Southern California on Friday night and was felt all the way in Las Vegas, forcing the postponement of a summer league game between the Pelicans and Knicks.

  • [NYTimes] Knicks favored to win Vegas Summer League title
    (Friday, July 05, 2019 8:56:12 AM)

    The Knicks, led by No. 3 overall draft pick RJ Barrett, are the 8-1 favorites to win the Las Vegas Summer League title, according to Caesars Sportsbook.

  • [NYTimes] The hours leading up to Zion Williamson’s pro debut
    (Friday, July 05, 2019 4:51:19 PM)

    Zion Williamson’s day included a chat with AD, an energetic crowd that included LeBron, a sore knee and a game cut short by an earthquake.

  • [NYTimes] Vegas Summer League postponed by 7.1 quake
    (Saturday, July 06, 2019 12:01:19 AM)

    A 7.1 magnitude earthquake hit in Southern California on Friday night and was felt all the way in Las Vegas, forcing the postponement of a summer league game between the Pelicans and Knicks.

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    171 comments on “Knicks Morning News (2019.07.06)

    1. alsep73

      Wait can someone explain all the Russ hate? I get that he’s starting to decline but he’s still a very good player who should outplay his contract. Why wouldn’t the Knicks want him?

      Because he plays a hero ball style that drives his teammates away, and because his game is so tied to his athleticism that his decline phase is likely to be very ugly.

      In other words, the exact kind of guy we’ve historically tried to acquire.

    2. alsep73

      That we can’t trade any of our new signings until December may be the thing that saves us from ourselves. That, or Perry looks at what the Lakers season will be now and decides to wait for another shot at Davis.

    3. Name is Bron - James Bron

      Just made a note to myself to remember to go into a self-induced coma in December. You know the FO is gonna trade RJ/Knox/6 picks for Westbrook. Starting lineup will be: Russ/Wayne/Reggie/Randle/Mitch.

      Maybe Bron injury and/or drop off might rescue us keeping hope of AD next summer. But maybe that just incents FO to trade for Westbrook if they feel that Russ being here raises chance of AD to Knicks (though might have to be through trade).

    4. Ingmarrrr

      The Clippers are sending Oklahoma City their unprotected 2022, 2024 and 2026 picks, their unprotected 2021 and protected 2023 first-round picks via Miami, and the rights to swap picks with the Clippers in 2023 and 2025, league sources said.

      I like the trade for both teams. The Clippers can get their 1st championship, and OKC is set up for a quick rebuild.

    5. E

      So the reporting that KD and Kawhi talked about playing together is clearly accurate, since Kawhi was talking about it with PG. Which means KD chose Flat Earth over Kawhi which is … like … really weird.

    6. Brian Cronin

      So the reporting that KD and Kawhi talked about playing together is clearly accurate, since Kawhi was talking about it with PG. Which means KD chose Flat Earth over Kawhi which is … like … really weird.

      It seems clear, though, that one of Kawhi’s main preferences was to play for an instant title contender and that wouldn’t be the case if the teamed up with KD. So it could be that it was Kawhi who backed out of working with KD, not the other way around.

    7. Hubert

      Not for nothing, but with Danny Green now signing for $15 million, the list of “good players who you could sign three of them instead of signing one max guy,” which included names like:

      Darren Collison
      Ricky Rubio
      Danny Green
      Robert Covington (who isn’t a free agent)
      DeAndre Jordan
      Paul Millsap

      went for:

      Weird retirement
      $17 million
      $15 million
      Again, not a free agent
      $10 million
      $30 million option picked up

      In other words, you can’t sign three good third tier veterans for $32 million. The Knicks couldn’t even sign five good players period for $70 million. ;)

      Brian, you could have gotten Danny Green, DeAndre Jordan, and had $7.7mm left over to sign a decent support player or work with in a trade (Smith and a pick for Covington, for example).

      In other words, you definitely can get three good third tier veterans for $32mm.

    8. Name is Bron - James Bron

      Vexing Question: If KD had not been injured, would KD and Kawhi both be Knicks right now?

    9. alsep73

      I think Kawhi really wanted to play in Los Angeles. Or at least that’s what I’ll tell myself as I cry in bed at night.

    10. The Glass Half Rebuilt

      Durant’s achilles tear forced the Knicks to do a full rebuild. Hopefully our 31 win Knicks will have some lottery luck and get bounced into the top 5 picks the way LAL, MEM, and NOP some luck. I’d hate to be a 20 win team that ends up with the #6 pick. That seems far too unfair.

      And we’re not trading for Russell Westbrook. He’d probably love to be in New York with his interest in fashion, but we’d likely have no interest in him. He doesn’t make us contenders by himself and he’s superstar repellent.

    11. Brian Cronin

      I think Kawhi really wanted to play in Los Angeles. Or at least that’s what I’ll tell myself as I cry in bed at night.

      He wanted to play for in Los Angeles, but he also wanted to play for a legit title contender. That was what was so fascinating about the George deal, as the Clippers only really became a legit title contender when that trade was made. Jerry freakin’ West, man.

    12. alsep73

      So assuming the Lakers are as screwed as they seem, whoa the title favorite this season? Bucks? Clips? Jazz?

    13. Name is Bron - James Bron

      @11 When RJ and Knox appear to be busts in December and FO is staring at 22 win season, Dolan will be desperate. Issue is how many picks Presti will extract from NYK. He just received a king’s ransom from a desperate Logo. December Russ trade could make that Melo trade appear not so bad in comparison.

      Our 9-man rotation in December:
      1: Russ, Payton
      2: Ellington, Trier
      3: Reggie, Dot
      4: Randle, Taj
      5; Mitch, Taj

    14. Brian Cronin

      So assuming the Lakers are as screwed as they seem, whoa the title favorite this season? Bucks? Clips? Jazz?

      Gotta be the Bucks by a country mile, since their biggest competitor just lost its best player. The West, meanwhile, all have to play against each other. But I’d put the Clippers at the top of the Western pack at the moment, with the Jazz and some others right there.

    15. Early Bird

      KD seemingly had his heart set on NY, Kawhi on LA. Could have happened, wouldn’t have.

    16. Jack Bauer

      Please no Westbrook…that would definitely be the Knicksy thing to do.

      Glad the Lakers got jilted and happy for the Clippers. The Logo knows a thing or two about building a winner.

      Next year is going to be crazy with all of these good players on new teams (Kawhi, AD, Kyrie, Horford, Conley, Redick, etc..) and others out injured (KD & Klay).

    17. Early Bird

      Without too much research I have the Clips, Rockets, 76ers, Bucks, & Portland in that order. I’m 100% sure I’m forgetting someone.

    18. Brian Cronin

      I dunno, the Sixers are pretty formidable in the east.

      I think that they’re definitely the second best team in the East, but the Bucks just won a ton of games and basically just brought the same team back with a few changes here and there (added Robin Lopez and Wes Matthews, lost Brogdon and Mirotic). I like Brogdon a lot, but it’s not like the Bucks struggled in his absence, ya know?

    19. Brian Cronin

      The Russ thing would be so stupid that I don’t think it’s even saying much about the Knicks front office that I doubt that they’d do it.

    20. Brian Cronin

      Without too much research I have the Clips, Rockets, 76ers, Bucks, & Portland in that order. I’m 100% sure I’m forgetting someone.

      The Jazz look insanely tough right now, no? The only big problem is that Ingles is now their everyday power forward. And even there, they nicely added Ed Davis.

    21. Early Bird

      lost Brogdon and Mirotic

      Those are big losses. I may over value Horford, but he and Embiid will be a handful on offense & Defense.

      And didn’t we cut Wes Matthews for sucking too much on a tanking, 17 win team?

    22. Early Bird

      The Jazz look insanely tough right now, no? The only big problem is that Ingles is now their everyday power forward. And even there, they nicely added Ed Davis.

      Knew I forgot someone, definitely the Jazz are up there. No idea where to place them. Ahead of Portland, behind Bucks??

    23. d-mar

      I’m just really, really happy the Lakers didn’t get Kawhi. I’d compare the Clippers stealing the spotlight from the Lakers to the Nets and the Knicks, except the Lakers still have LeBron and AD and we have the Island of Misfit Toys.

    24. Z-man

      I was hoping that RJ looked better than he did. But at least Knox, Trier and Mitch looked good!

    25. KnickfaninNJ

      I’m picking the Bucks and Clippers, basically because among the teams mentioned, they have two of the best coaches

    26. Brian Cronin

      Those are big losses. I may over value Horford, but he and Embiid will be a handful on offense & Defense.

      They were already far and away the best team in the East before they got Mirotic, though, no?

      And when they lost Brogdon for a couple of months, it didn’t slow them down at all.

      And didn’t we cut Wes Matthews for sucking too much on a tanking, 17 win team?

      They cut Matthews because he was an expiring veteran and those players almost always get cut to get a chance to join a playoff team. Kanter got bought out, too, and he just got signed to start for the Celtics!

      That said, I agree that the Sixers are quite good.

    27. Z-man

      It’s nice to go into a season without a heavy favorite to win it all. Even though the Warriors lost, they were the presumed champs all year and only injuries derailed them. And the East was ruled by LeBron for 8 years. I can’t remember the last times things were this wide open!

    28. ptmilo

      westbrook and late career riley are meant to be. seems like the dallas segregationists would be a good fit for gallo’s expiring year.

    29. Sly Wi-yums

      “I am drooling over the impending reality of Mitch destructing Zion at the rim.”

      Sort of got that when Mitch swatted that weak 3 pointer and leaked out for the dunk. Interesting that with Zion’s ups that he only has a set shot right now. That said he’s a freak. His two-handed dunks are so reminiscent of young Charles Barkley bouncing it against the floor through the hoop as hard as he can.

      Summer league summary (only saw first half)
      -Mitch looked dominant
      -RJ looked uncomfortable.
      -Knox looked like Knox – not really aware of teammates around him – chucker.
      -Trier looked like a pro, slumming it summer league

      Say no to russ.

    30. Brian Cronin

      I love Mitch so very, very much. He’s by far my favorite Knick player since, I dunno, Tyson Chandler, I guess? But Mitch is pretty much like Tyson Chandler now! So he might be so much better in the future!

    31. Early Bird

      @Cronin, I won’t push the point too much because I don’t really disagree (I think a lot of these teams are pretty even). Giannis dominated the regular season, but I think the Bucks have too much concentrated in Giannis for the playoffs. I recognize it’s a bias more than an empirical or well thought out position, but that’s why I have the 76ers out in front.

    32. Early Bird

      Summer league summary (only saw first half)

      Boy was that the right half to watch. The 7.1 earthquake was slightly less destructive than whoever F. Jackson is (I legitimately don’t know his first name) against the Knicks in the third quarter. (I hope everyone is okay from the earthquake and realize that natural disasters aren’t a joking matter, but wow was that a bad third quarter).

    33. Owen

      Russ? That’s a nightmare scenario. Feels pretty knicksy.

      Having Barrett and Russ competing for shots might cause the singularity.

      RJ could have had a much better night if he had dropped the Maple Mamba shit and passed the ball. He created space and passing lanes but then threw up bad shot after bad shot.

      The guy is yoked but he’s not much of an aerialist. He doesn’t actually have the lift and explosion to finish in traffic like a Kobe from what I have seen, though he draws contact and fouls.

      To me, he should try to emulate Simmons rather than Kobe. Work on the bully ball, the patient interior scoring, and work on the distributing, while being a productive rebounder and defender.

    34. Farfa

      Definitely tooooo early to say that RJ is a bust. I didn’t like much of what I saw last night but I think he was crazy nervous.

      What I liked:

      – Showed the ability and willingness to get boards
      – Can pass the ball nicely (his oop for Knox was total eye candy)
      – Doesn’t shy away from contact, which should translate to a nice FTR

      What I didn’t like:

      – Crazy slow on defense and rotations. That’s what worries me the most, I doubt there’s much that can be done. His man routinely roasted him
      – Maple Mamba mentality in full effect: looked hell-bent on shooting and got tunnel vision a lot of times
      – Terrible shooting consistency. His first free throws were a clinic on how never to shoot a freebie (only wings and guards)
      – Bad body language. Knox hustled a lot more than him, and that’s saying something

      In the end, I think that next game will be much better and he’ll play much more in rhythm. There is certainly cause for concern but he has the tools to make it.

    35. ptmilo

      i love mitch as much as any two of you combined but it also has to be said that he needs to find at least one other gear between 5th and neutral to really exploit his unparalleled defensive talent. last night he looked look amazing as usual but also like the chris farley van down by the river guy as usual.

      i’m not saying it with disappointment.; i didn’t expect him to magically show up to summer league with duncanesque positioning and restraint (though maybe i hope for a sign or two, which i could not detect). there is nothing more important the coaching staff can do than instill at least a few habits of conservatism and positioning into their most talented prospect.

      i have similar thoughts about trier. his 3pt shot is fluid as fuck and he needs to stopping starting his iso possessions 21 feet out. that doesn’t even take much rewiring. just strong, specific coaching.

    36. Max

      Happy that Kawhi didn’t land on the LA Fuckers.
      In the last 12 months their FO did everything wrong (including blatantly interfering with another team’s player still under contract for 2 years) and was rewarded with LeBron and AD “just because”, to get Kawhi would have been an insult to the basketball gods.

      Sorry for Toronto, but their gamble got them a title and Kawhi is a really strange dude.

      I’m worried about George forcing OKC to trade him (BTW a great trade considering the circumstances, Shea and Gallo are really good and the picks so far in the future that the Clippers could be a lottery team), for me it’s another step toward a lockout, too much players empowerment for the vast majority of the teams to accept anymore.

      Next year’ll be fun, lot of very good (but imperfect) teams fighting for all the marbles.

      Didn’t watch the SL game but I’m leaning on your comments guys :-)

      I know that everything’s dark and nothing good will ever happen to the Knicks and their fans, but just for our collective mental health, could we ban the discussions on Frank and postpone the Russ’ ones until it actually happens (yes, it’ll be a very stupid trade)?
      Don’t worry, even without those two we still have a lot of bad things to talk about (Dolan must sell, Knox is the worst player in league history, RJ will be the greatest lottery bust in league history, the FA signings are a shame, the FO is so stupid that we’d rather have Phoenix’s…).
      The sun always shines on KB.

    37. Stratomatic: Management consists of talent evaluation, fitting pieces together coherently, & contract/valuation level decisions. The Knicks are bad at all three.

      Notice how some of the smartest teams are using picks to get established players instead of actually drafting players and building that way. That’s because as I’ve been saying for the last couple of years, the value of draft picks has declined as the league has moved towards drafting 18-19 year old players. It’s more of a crap shoot drafting players at that age, they are often not productive relative to their salary in years 1 or 1/2, the real payoff of building that way is too far into the future, and you are sometimes (perhaps often) forced to extend them or let them walk before you are sure what their ceiling is. The alternative of drafting older players probably makes sense if you are mid 1st round, but not as much at the top because most of the elite talent comes out early.

      The Knicks discovered draft picks at the exact time some of the smartest people are selectively using them as currency to build their teams faster and with less uncertainty and variance.

    38. Stratomatic: Management consists of talent evaluation, fitting pieces together coherently, & contract/valuation level decisions. The Knicks are bad at all three.

      Definitely tooooo early to say that RJ is a bust. I didn’t like much of what I saw last night but I think he was crazy nervous.

      There was one close up of his face before the game started where he looked like he was walking into the ring to face peak Mike Tyson. lol I didn’t know whether to laugh or feel sorry for him.

      The one thing I didn’t like is that he looked really slow.

    39. Max

      Quinn Cook signed with the Lakers…
      Was it “Venom” Vecsey that troll him as a Knicks’ target after Durant spurn us?

    40. heavencent35

      I think Kawhi is really interested to join the Knicks. He wants to build his legacy. But will we mortgage our future for a Kawhi and George? It’s 50 50.

    41. swiftandabundant

      The Clippers traded 5 first round picks and the swap rights to two more plus one of their nice young players and somehow the Knicks are dumb because of it.

      Yeah, sure, GMs can use picks to trade for stars. The clippers were also much more in a position to lure Kawhi than we were and had the assets to get him a superstar. We weren’t and aren’t in the same position as the clippers to make those kind of moves yet.

    42. Z-man

      I know that everything’s dark and nothing good will ever happen to the Knicks and their fans, but just for our collective mental health, could we ban the discussions on Frank

      let me say that I swear, on the souls of my grandchildren, that I will not be the one to break the peace we have made here today.

    43. bobneptune

      I was hoping that RJ looked better than he did. But at least Knox, Trier and Mitch looked good!

      Mitch looked great as expected. Knox shot the ball the way he can and Trier was himself but they were both truly putrid on defense and ole’d the bejesus out of anyone who put the ball on the floor. Just no defensive effort saver one drawn charge by Trier. Those two guys need to be held accountable and I hope the presence of competition leads to an early trip to the FIZ dog box when they predictably dog it on defense.

      Barrett was having an out of the body experience last night…. or at least I hope so. we can wait a few more games before throwing him on the scrap heap……

    44. Max

      @47
      Kawhi has already built a legacy, he won a title for the only non-US team in the NBA.
      During the Finals there were Jurassic Parks full of fans all over Canada.
      He is, sorry he was, the idol of an entire nation.
      Now he’ll be the idol of (barely) half a city.

      And BTW are we sure the Clippers are clear favorite for next year title?

    45. bobneptune

      There is some funny shit written on this board:

      Russ? That’s a nightmare scenario. Feels pretty knicksy.

      Having Barrett and Russ competing for shots might cause the singularity.

      My only comment to that is:

      ALL THESE WORLDS
      ARE YOURS EXCEPT
      EUROPA
      ATTEMPT NO
      LANDING THERE
      USE THEM TOGETHER
      USE THEM IN PEACE

    46. Hugo Busto

      i really wish OKC thunder never existed. bring back the Seattle SuperSonics and fuck Clay Bennett and his ownership group

    47. mase

      It sure seems like the clips gave up a lot for pg13 considering they were over a barrel!?!

    48. bobneptune

      Now the important question is does AD insist on his 4 M trade kicker now that a max partner is out of the question leaving the Lakers 4 M less to work with to sign FAs and does Jared Dudley now want more than the minimum?

    49. Hugo Busto

      It sure seems like the clips gave up a lot for pg13 considering they were over a barrel!?!

      Sure but you have to think of it as they traded for Paul George AND Kawhi

    50. Max

      @57
      Rumors are that AD will renounce his 4M trade kicker because… he’ll get 4M “from LeBron” for Space Jam 2.

      LeBron’s formal “non-involvement” in Klutch Sports is a fucking joke (see the contracts of Kantavious Caldwell Pope, JR Smith, Tristan Thompson).

    51. The Glass Half Rebuilt

      I can’t get over how nasty Kawhi, PG, and Beverley will be on defense. They’re going to have to let Harden take 3 extra steps in order to have a chance.

    52. Frank O.

      Btw, we have seen NBA players leave a lot of money on the table to shape their own futures. It is noteworthy: for the right system, team and circumstance they will take less. Unlike certain players that force a team to give up almost everything to get them…I will never forgive a certain sf/pf for that.
      And it does look like the draft has become even more uncertain. Tanking gives you only a 14% chance to get No. 1. Drafting teenagers is fraught…so many great players taken later than top 10.
      Certainly makes free agency a bit “safer.”

      Trading for Westbrook would be monumentally stupid.
      The man didn’t respect stars on his team. Imagine how he would behave on a team with unpolished kids. He might be a triple double machine, but his body will break and even if it doesn’t the Knicks would have a ceiling of 42 wins.

    53. The Glass Half Rebuilt

      The Thunder offered Toronto Westbrook and Paul George for a package surrounding Pascal Siakim and Ujiri said no. That is a ballsy decision if I’ve ever seen one.

    54. Hugo Busto

      The Thunder offered Toronto Westbrook and Paul George for a package surrounding Pascal Siakim and Ujiri said no. That is a ballsy decision if I’ve ever seen one.

      Who knows if that is true and the matching contracts for that would’ve been interesting.

    55. Hugo Busto

      Right now after the trade the Thunder are 11.59M into the tax. They are a repeater tax team, that would add up to a 31.82M tax. Tax isn’t calculated till at the end of the season so they have time to dump salaries.

      They have been trying to unload Roberson/Patterson for awhile, maybe now with more picks they can attach one and unload? Gallo might be a trade deadline candidate as well. And of course they could trade Russ

    56. The Honorable Cock Jowles

      The Thunder offered Toronto Westbrook and Paul George for a package surrounding Pascal Siakim and Ujiri said no. That is a ballsy decision if I’ve ever seen one.

      I would say no, and I’m about 10% as smart as Ujiri. The Westbrook contract will be an albatross within 18 months, I’d guess.

      Enormous haul for the Thunder. They basically turned Serge Ibaka into like 80 picks.

      If shit goes sideways for the Clips (injury, bad chemistry, cap hell, firesale), the Thunder are set for a decade.

    57. BJ

      I just think Russ is the kind of efficient enough high usage guy that would be a great pairing with Mitch…like you didn’t want him taking shots away from prime KD but there’s very few of those in the league… you probably wouldn’t really need another star scorer just 3 and D types… but yeah his decline might well be very ugly

    58. Hugo Busto

      nd BTW are we sure the Clippers are clear favorite for next year title?

      Sportsbooks seem to think so.

      Patrick Beverley
      Paul George
      Kawhi Leonard
      Maurice Harkless
      Ivica Zubac

      Bench: Lou Williams, Montrezl Harrell, Landry Shamet, Rodney McGruder, JaMychal Green, Luc Mbah a Moute

      and I think they still have like a 4.8 mil exception they can use?

      Defense going to be pretty crazy

    59. KnickfaninNJ

      It seems at least one GM believes in defense, but it’s Jerry West; I mean what does he know?

    60. The Honorable Cock Jowles

      It seems at least one GM believes in defense, but it’s Jerry West; I mean what does he know?

      Conference Semifinals teams, ORtg rank

      Warriors 1st
      Rockets 2nd
      Blazers 3rd
      Bucks 4th
      Raptors 5th
      Nuggets 6th
      Sixers 8th
      Celtics 10th

      DRtg rank

      Bucks 1st
      Raptors 5th
      Celtics 7th
      Nuggets 10th
      Warriors 13th
      Sixers 15th
      Blazers 16th
      Rockets 18th

      Having a good defense is obviously a good thing, but when all 8 of the CSF teams are in the top-10 in ORtg, maybe it’s a sign that offense matters an awful lot. It’s easy to care about defense in teambuilding when those DPOY candidates also shoot .580+ TS% on sky-high usage.

      But this is splitting hairs, as George and Kawhi should be the centerpieces of a top-5 defense and top-5 offense. If Bev stays healthy and spry, they have the best perimeter defense in recent memory.

      Imagine if they added Frank!

    61. kevin5318

      @BrodyLogan
      Paul George’s ex is Doc Rivers’ daughter, who he allegedly cheated on with a Miami stripper. Now Doc’s his coach. The NBA is wild.

      Should be fun

    62. BJ

      Having Barrett and Russ competing for shots might cause the singularity.

      I legitimately laughed out loud at this. I get that Russ demands the ball, but just because we were burned by melo’s garbage version of hero ball doesn’t mean that high usage is always a bad thing, in fact if your efficiency is high enough you SHOULD up your usage as high as you can until it hurts efficiency. Yeah I’m sure it would suck for other “shot creator” types to share the court with Russ, so just trade/ don’t resign those guys and surround him with defenders who are good rebounders and ideally can hit assisted shots. The decline risk is scary but he’s not old enough yet for it to not be worth the potential upside, depending on how much Presti is incentivized to commit to a rebuild and accept a lesser asset return. 2 1RP plus Portis and some other new signings? Obviously this would have to wait but by the time we could do it we’d have a better picture on if the signings worked and if Russ’s decline is a blip or plateau or a cliff…

    63. Stratomatic: Management consists of talent evaluation, fitting pieces together coherently, & contract/valuation level decisions. The Knicks are bad at all three.

      @48

      There is nothing wrong with accumulating picks by trading over-rated players, players that don’t fit your team or timeline anymore, or by taking on relatively short bad contracts. That’s a good idea. But after you stockpile them, you should be open to using them as currency. The problem is that the Knicks did not learn the right lessons from the mistakes of the past.

      They saw that when they traded picks, some of those picks turned into good players and the players they got could not deliver. They concluded it’s a bad idea to trade picks. That does not mean trading picks is bad idea. It means you gave up way too much pick value for bad/mediocre players. The idea is to stop being incompetent and start valuing picks and players correctly.

      My only point has been that picks have been losing value at the very time that Mills/Perry are valuing them more highly and trying to build via draft.

      I’m not even sure I like how much LA gave up for George, but you can’t think of it in those terms. They didn’t give up all those picks for George. They gave them up for George and Kawhi because Kawhi doesn’t go into the cap space without George.

      OKC also made out fine. If they were smart they’d move on from Russell and then try to use all those picks to rebuild, including by TRADING some of them for good young players to accelerate it when possible. Now they just have to find someone dumb enough (or maybe dumb enough and in the position of trying to save face) to take Russell while he’s on the decline with a ton of money still coming. I’d start by calling Mills at the deadline.

    64. ptmilo

      2 1RP plus Portis and some other new signings?

      you seriously want to give two first rounders pay $90m for RWB at 33 and 34 so you can add him to a shit team at 31? he may have been a reasonably efficient high usage guy for most of his prime but he wasn’t at 30. he was 186th of 199 TS% qualifiers last year and 168th of 183 on TOV%. there are dumb ideas and there is this.

    65. Stratomatic: Management consists of talent evaluation, fitting pieces together coherently, & contract/valuation level decisions. The Knicks are bad at all three.

      It seems at least one GM believes in defense, but it’s Jerry West; I mean what does he know?

      I love that team already……if they stay healthy.

      During these putrid Knicks periods of incompetence and frustration, I tend to have a short fling with a team that’s at least competently accumulating players I like that also play defense and have a style of play I like. The Clippers are on my short list with Dallas and a couple of others. Even Orlando and others are starting to look good by comparison.

    66. thenoblefacehumper

      No one has ever argued against trading picks if it lands you Kawhi Leonard and Paul George, pick a different straw man today

    67. Max

      @69
      After the AD trade Sportbooks had the Lakers as favorite, with draft and free agency still to go.
      I’m working in the business long enough to know that betting houses need shining beads to attract casual players.

      I think they’re one of the teams that could win it all, but “clear” favorite?

      Last year team overachieve a lot, thus becoming a league’s darling, and won 48 games.
      Leonard is a great addition but he needs “load management” (missed 20 games last year), George’s coming off his best season but surgeries on both shoulders too.
      We rightly praised SGA and love Gallo (fresh from his best one, nearly 20 PPG, 43% on 3PT, 55%EFG) and they both gone now.

      I always liked them, they’ll be very good and in the first tier but it’ll not be easy, the West will be a dogfight.
      The best thing this crazy summer brought us could be parity…

    68. Bruno Almeida

      The Clippers look really scary as they have depth. The defense is amazing but as Jowles pointed out, it works out because George and Leonard are both incredible offensive players too, real two way players.

      I think the Clippers took a risk but it was the right one to take. Every team Kawhi has ever been on has been an elite team, and he has proven he was the best playoffs performer in the NBA last season. He’s 28 and George is 29, so we can expect them to be on their athletic prime through pretty much this whole 4 years, aside from injuries.

      I just love that the NBA is so wide open again, the west playoffs is going to be so damn fun.

    69. JK47

      The problem is that the Knicks did not learn the right lessons from the mistakes of the past.

      Didn’t they, though?

      They missed out on the top FAs. They didn’t then go out and sign the next available tier of FAs to long term contracts, and they didn’t gut the roster of all the young talent for fool’s gold max players like Amar’e Stoudemire and Carmelo Anthony. They didn’t give out four year albatross contracts to Joakim Noah and Courtney Lee type players. They didn’t give out player options to guys like Ron Baker. They didn’t damage their flexibility long-term, didn’t make “win now” moves when the team is not ready to win. They seemed to correctly identify their place on the win curve.

      I would like them to have pushed this strategy even further, and for them to have acquired some draft picks in exchange for taking on bad contracts, but you can’t have everything I guess. The guys running this team are not galaxy brain type dudes by any stretch of the imagination, but it damn sure seems like they DID learn some valuable lessons from past mistakes.

    70. Hugo Busto

      @79

      I just made a bet with my friend on who wins next years championship. I have the field and he has the Clippers.

      I’ve talked to 3 people afterwards and 2 thought I have the losing side and one person thinks I’m the clear favorite.

      I’m not really sure either way

    71. Brian Cronin

      I’d take the field. I like the Clippers for sure, but even if I think they’re the best team in the West, the West is still stacked with good teams.

    72. thenoblefacehumper

      With as many as 8 teams by my count possibly contending, I’ve gotta believe we can get an active market brewing for Bullock and Ellington, and maybe even Portis if he shoots well. We kind of housed the market on guys who should be the 9th best player on a good team. I doubt we can recoup the value we lost by not taking on the salary dumps but it would be nice to snag some seconds/late firsts for guys we signed on throwaway contracts.

      I guess with that factor in mind, we can’t really render an offseason verdict yet. Signing these guys and then trading them at the deadline would be pretty shrewd. Just having them play out the year and walk would be dumb as fuck.

    73. Z-man

      The Clippers are formidable but hardly a superteam. Other than Kawhi and PG13, no one on that team is all that great of a two-way player. The Lakers could very well be better than them, and the Jazz, Rockets and GSW might give them all they can handle.

    74. JK47

      This seems like the first time in a long while that there is no “superteam” odds-on favorite to win the chip. Which is nice. Kawhi to the Clippers instead of Lakers makes the whole league a lot more interesting.

    75. thenoblefacehumper

      I dunno, Harrell is about as good as it gets when it comes to two-way rim running types. Holding onto him in that mega deal is a pretty decent consolation.

      But yeah, they definitely project to have depth issues.

    76. MBunge

      Btw, we have seen NBA players leave a lot of money on the table to shape their own futures. It is noteworthy: for the right system, team and circumstance they will take less.

      The NBA is conducting a huge experiment on wealth and human nature. The next step will be what happens when some of these guys who’ve sacrificed tens of millions of dollars don’t get the personal or professional satisfaction they expect.

      Mike

    77. Hugo Busto

      The Lakers supporting cast and depth is pretty trash though. All they really have is Kuzma and Danny Green. And I’m not even sure if Kuzma fits into their best 5 man lineups

    78. Z-man

      @85 I doubt that management considered the potential trade deadline bonanza when they signed these guys, so dumb as fuck but lucky as fuck is a possibility.

    79. The Honorable Cock Jowles

      You definitely take the field on that one. An injury to either of the LAC stars and the money is yours. No injuries and you still have a half dozen teams able to pull off a series win. Nuggets are young and on the rise. Lakers will be a tough draw when they establish playoff rotation minutes. Rockets will still hang 140 on you on a good night. Warriors will be underrated going into the season. And as always, there will be a bunch of teams that could suddenly leap ahead via developing young stars (Kings, Pelicans, Mavs, Spurs). The West is ridiculously stacked.

      I think Steph might be in the running for MVP this year. He’s going to play heroball and look damn good doing it.

    80. Z-man

      The Lakers will fill in with decent stopgaps. Javale McGee is an example. I don’t love LeBron, but he will make probably make everyone better.

    81. Max

      @82
      For what’s worth I’d take the field too.

      Bucks, 76ers and Raptors (Siakam’s progress, Anunoby’s return and Masai shrewdness), Denver, Utah, Houston, Portland and (alas) the Fuckers.

      Plus, staying in the West, pain in the ass teams like OKC (as is, who know what’s next), Golden State (if and when Klay’s back watch out), New Orleans (Zion!!!), Spurs (never sleep on Pop), Sacramento and the United Nation of Dallas.

      With parity at full swing every team could be fucked by an injury and the season is so long…

    82. Hugo Busto

      Yeah Steph is definitely a top MVP candidate for next season. Will be really interesting to see if they even make the playoffs, like you said the West is stacked.

      They were very fortunate to retain Looney and get WCS, imo.

      I really doubt Klay comes back next season and contributes

    83. ptmilo

      harrell is one of these guys who does a lot of good stuff on defense, but is probably a liability as often as not. he doesn’t get bullied, he’s a good weakside shot blocker and he will definitely take a charge. but he also ends up totally out of position way more than less splashy bigs. it’s even possible the clippers might want to add a smart positional defender like taj come december, bc zubac doesn’t provide that either at the moment.

    84. Hugo Busto

      I don’t really think the Raptors have much of a shot at winning the championship next season.

      I think it will either be the Bucks or Sixers coming out of the East.

    85. Brian Cronin

      What I don’t get about WCS is he asked the Kings to let him go, but why did they agree? And why did he ask them to let him go so that he could sign a vet minimum deal?

    86. ptmilo

      i somehow missed that the warriors got WCS at the min when did that happen? i’m not a big fan of WCS but i thought he’d get more than the minimum (it’s so weird that he seemed like a no doubter defender and no-offense guy and became more like greg monroe, while Towns also seemed sure to be a plus defender and instead ended up shooting 3s like reggie miller).

    87. kevin5318

      With as many as 8 teams by my count possibly contending, I’ve gotta believe we can get an active market brewing for Bullock and Ellington, and maybe even Portis if he shoots well. We kind of housed the market on guys who should be the 9th best player on a good team. I doubt we can recoup the value we lost by not taking on the salary dumps but it would be nice to snag some seconds/late firsts for guys we signed on throwaway contracts.

      I think that’s the plan with the amount of guys that could be rotation players on our team. The trade deadline will hopefully clear out the eventual logjams at multiple positions.

    88. Max

      @98
      I checked because I’m confused too.
      His agent asked the Kings to NOT give him the QO because he wanted a change of scenary (?).
      They did it nevertheless, making him a RFA.
      Then they rescinded it to free cap space to sign… Corey Joseph?
      He signed with GS as a “free free agent”.

    89. ptmilo

      i was thinking there might now be a december deal involving somehow adams and D’Lo, but the warriors got Looney so cheap maybe they don’t want to add another no-shoot center. Adams contract doesn’t fit what’s happened to no-shoot centers but he is still good and useful.

    90. Brian Cronin

      I checked because I’m confused too.
      His agent asked the Kings to NOT give him the QO because he wanted a change of scenary (?).
      They did it nevertheless, making him a RFA.
      Then they rescinded it to free cap space to sign… Corey Joseph?
      He signed with GS as a “free free agent”.

      They really rescinded it because they signed Dwayne Dedmon to a big deal as WCS’ replacement as back-up center.

      But yes, it was still very, very weird.

    91. The Honorable Cock Jowles

      WCS has not become Tyson Chandler 2.0 but is excellent value at the min.

      Who’s playing wing for the Dubs this year though?

      Steph
      DaR
      ??????
      Dray
      Looney/WCS

      They lost all three of their viable wings in the span of two games and one month of offseason.

    92. Max

      Ah ok, that’s better…
      Dedmon was sneaky solid last year (38% 3PT?) Joseph had a bad year in Indiana, but they could mix well with the young players (I love Fox)…

      Warriors’ wing situation is puzzling: Jordan Poole, McKinnie and Glenn Robinson III?

    93. The Honorable Cock Jowles

      And even though I think DAR is an obvious trade chip/placeholder, he could very well thrive in their offense. He is a real talent as a passer, handler and chucker — there was a recent Coach Nick video that articulated (better than I ever could) my optimism for watching that offense as a basketball fan. Hard to know if the contract year was a fluke. Very low-risk move by the Warriors as there was no other option but being cheapskates on the eve of a privately-funded, billion-dollar stadium’s christening.

    94. Owen

      That WCS deal is kind of nuts. Isn’t he pretty good? I’d way rather have him than Portis, at any price.

      Loving this NBA offseason. Has there been one recently with more titanic shifts? Always plenty of action but this year has altered the competitive landscape more than most. It’s shaping up to be a fantastically interesting year and the trade deadline will be even more intense than usual with so many teams in the hunt.

    95. The Infamous Cdiggy

      @JK47 yeeeeaaaaah weren’t they??!!! So glad he went to the Clippers since he decided to leave Toronto.

      I just texted my supervisor a half hour ago. Since they thought they had Kawhi in the bag they way we thought we had KD, I told him to pull up a chair at our bar table.

      That bball assistant coach who called me Julius Randle this week – I can’t wait to see him Monday.
      “Hey! Congratulations on signing Kawh…oh, wait…”

    96. TheClashFan

      Hopefully Westbrook to the Knicks is nothing more than idle speculation here. Trading the farm (or even any small piece of the farm) for him might be the last straw for me. I’m a Mets fan, so I don’t know if I can handle another of my teams making horrible trades at this time.

      Really hope RJ looks better in game two. He was pretty awful last night.

      Good trade for OKC.

    97. Jack Bauer

      Kawhi wants to play on a winner and on the WEST coast, specifically LA. The Knicks couldn’t offer that and were never in serious contention. That was all media hype and internet “experts” throwing stuff out there.

      Soo glad it was the Clippers, not the Lakers. Considering how inept they’ve been lately and how historically they always end up with who they want, that serving of humble pie to LA was long overdue. Their fans can now go on suicide alert.

      R.J. was not impressive last night. He did look slow and had complete tunnel vision when driving to the basket. Like there was a blinking neon light on his far head “I’M SHOOTING” .
      It’s only one game so I’m not going to despair just yet….

    98. d-mar

      Can’t wait to see the look on Gallo’s face when he’s wide open and Russ bricks a contested 18 footer.

    99. BJ

      I don’t thing shooting percentage is a good metric to decide someone is done. Too noisy on even with a season sample. Projecting russ’s Projection based on only last year or worse extrapolating a short term trajectory does not seem smart. What do you think Russ is traded for?

    100. BigBlueAL

      From what I’ve read Kawhi asked KD to join him with the Clippers, no talk of Kawhi wanting to team up with KD in NY.

    101. Max

      DMC to the Lakers as expected, on a 1yr deal.

      Next up Rondo, then Korver and Jr after the buyouts (Iggy depends on Memphis’ decision).

    102. Brian Cronin

      Boogie to the Lakers on a one-year deal. Interesting move.

      Green
      Lebron
      Kuzma
      Davis
      Cousins

      Interesting starting lineup.

    103. Brian Cronin

      Of course, they might still add a point guard and maybe either Kuzma, Green or Boogie comes off the bench.

    104. The Glass Half Rebuilt

      Woj is reporting the Thunder and Westbrook will be working together on trade opportunities. Miami is the only place that really makes sense considering Pat Riley is hellbent on winning 48 games a year, and maybe Milwaukee if they think he’s an upgrade over Bledsoe. I’d hate to see him in a Knicks jersey considering his age, decline phase, AAV, style of play, and potential trade cost but I wouldn’t take our names off the list. We don’t have a point guard and we want to appear as if we’re actively trying to compete. Luckily for us, we can’t trade anybody until December and I don’t think Pat Riley can keep it in his pants long enough.

    105. Max

      @115
      As much as I hate them, they’re a team you must reckon with,
      at the end of the day when healty they have 2 of the 5 best player in the league to start with…

    106. The Glass Half Rebuilt

      I definitely forgot Phoenix as a team that could trade for Westbrook. They’ve been dying for a point guard and I’m not sure their front office knows what they’re doing. Westbrook, Booker, and Ayton.

    107. Max

      Ryan Anderson’s and Timo Mozgov’s expiring contracts got stretched…

      Oh, the dreadful summer of 2016…

      BTW Anderson’s long range skills could interest the Fuckers and Mozgov played there (and in Cleveland with LeBron)…

    108. Hubert

      Danny Green, Rondo, Caldwell-Pope, Cousins, and McGee. Tell me again about how this off-season refuted the notion you can get good depth for the price of one max player.

    109. thenoblefacehumper

      Danny Green, Rondo, Caldwell-Pope, Cousins, and McGee. Tell me again about how this off-season refuted the notion you can get good depth for the price of one max player.

      You would prefer this group to one legitimately worthy max player…?

    110. Max

      If KBloggers are interested, lot of good podcasts on the Kawhi signing: Lowe & Woj, Dunc’d, Open Floor, Windhorst & Pelton….

    111. BJ

      538 projects a return to form for Russ next year and a much more gradual decline than most here have him pegged for. Their 5 year market value for him is 234.2 Million US Dollars. I understand if you are worried Presti would fleece us perhaps with an assist from Dolan, but do you really think two 1RP would give us more value than Russel Westbrook’s contract? I think Russ + Mitch + the rest of the cap to build around them is worth two draft picks that IMO wouldn’t be lotto picks anyway.

    112. Hubert

      You would prefer this group to one legitimately worthy max player…?

      No, but that wasn’t the issue.

      The point was made that this offseason proved it is impossible to find 2-3 quality players for the price of one max player. I’m looking around the league and I see plenty of combinations that could add good depth if that was your goal.

    113. Jack Bauer

      DMC teaming up with AD in LA – oh course, because it worked so well in New Orleans.

      Hoping for a big fail

    114. BJ

      @Hubert A common theme to the players you listed is they are going to teams that have already been anointed by MVP candidate max players. It is facetious to say those players are available for the contracts they signed because that is not the market rate they would sign at for any team. Championship contender teams with minutes to allocate are really the only way you get those contracts. The Knicks are just not in that position.

    115. JK47

      Yeah, you think Boogie is gonna sign a 1/2M contract to do anything other than chase a ring?

    116. thenoblefacehumper

      Boogie is a pretty damn good minimum signing. Man, the market sure has changed quickly. A few short years ago he was a super max candidate!

    117. The Honorable Cock Jowles

      You would prefer this group to one legitimately worthy max player…?

      Brand recognition is a powerful thing (apparently everyone thinks it’s still, like, 2013)

    118. KnickfaninNJ

      Lots of people never want to go near Cousins on their team, but Davis wanted him back. And the players on the Warriors have nothing but good to say about him. And this year he was coming back from an injury, which historically takes until the second season back to be fully recovered. So it’s quite possible he will be significantly better next year than this year. You may not like his skill set as a player, but I think the Lakers got a great deal.

    119. alsep73

      Yeah, Boogie at or near a max was terrifying. Boogie at the minimum is the kind of gamble any contender should take.

    120. Bruno Almeida

      It’s a great gamble for the Lakers, because they can just get rid of Cousins any time if he starts acting up or if he doesn’t fit well with the team. I don’t want him on my team and I don’t think he’s a great player, but he’s obviously good value for such a low deal. I think the Lakers have built a good team, it’s a team that fits well together and will be very dangerous, but I’d still take the Clippers over them because I think they have better depth, plus I’ll never bet against Kawhi in the playoffs ever again.

    121. BJ

      @132 Jowles great job trolling straw men, no one said name recognition, no one wants a Melo fake star, literally the quote was “legitimately max worthy” i.e. producing value in excess of a max contract. What three of the players Hubert mentioned would you rather have than Kawhi?

      @134 Ha but they do have to be nervous about him getting more out of shape though right?

    122. Hugo Busto

      “The Spurs and agent Mark Bartelstein of @PrioritySports reworked free agent F DeMarre Carroll’s deal to make it three-years, $21M, Bartelstein tells ESPN. The original agreement was two-years, $13M.” per Woj…

      I’m confused, why would the Spurs do this? What is the point? Am I missing something

    123. Hubert

      A common theme to the players you listed is they are going to teams that have already been anointed by MVP candidate max players. It is facetious to say those players are available for the contracts they signed because that is not the market rate they would sign at for any team. Championship contender teams with minutes to allocate are really the only way you get those contracts. The Knicks are just not in that position.

      The context, BJ, is important here. This is dating back to a discussion of what the best course of action for the Knicks would have been if they signed a healthy Kevin Durant and had enough room for either one max player or $32.7mm worth of depth. In that context, we have the MVP on our team, so it’s not facetious.

      Given how talentless we were, i was in favor of the depth route. Brian is trying to say this offseason proved it would have been impossible to go that route. I’m looking around and not seeing that.

      For instance, if we had signed a healthy Durant, I would have gladly taken Danny Green, Ricky Rubio, and DeMarcus Cousins over just Kyrie Irving or Kemba Walker. I like a starting backcourt of Rubio + Green more than Kemba + Trier.

      I’m into balance over top heavinness. This year’s postseason supported that notion notion pretty strongly, too.

      The offseason, though, is proving that players aren’t going anywhere without a tag team partner.

    124. BJ

      @jowles my bad never mind I’m guessing you were referring to rondo et al with the 2013 comment. In fairness to Hubert those players are value at the contracts they signed, just getting that value requires you already have a legit max player (or two)

    125. BJ

      @ Hubert thanks for the clarification, totally on board with your side of the argument

    126. thenoblefacehumper

      For instance, if we had signed a healthy Durant, I would have gladly taken Danny Green, Ricky Rubio, and DeMarcus Cousins over just Kyrie Irving or Kemba Walker. I like a starting backcourt of Rubio + Green more than Kemba + Trier.

      If we trotted out a Rubio-Green-KD-Knox?????-Mitch lineup every bone in KD’s legs would’ve exploded by December. Rubio and Green are nice players, but you can find, say, 60% of their production from minimum/exception deals. You won’t sniff that when it comes to Kyrie Irving.

    127. TheOakmanCometh

      I feel pretty bad for the Raptors. They did everything right and still lost Kawhi. Literally they could not have created a better case for him to stay.

      Meanwhile the Lakers do everything wrong and still fall ass backwards into stars.

    128. The Glass Half Rebuilt

      The Raptors won a championship with a year of Kawhi, which is something they never would have accomplished with DeRozan, Jake Puddle, and a 1st round pick. Ujiri knew this was the risk and he was right to do what he did.

    129. Frank O.

      They took one look at Zion’s hips, and decided the knee was excuse enough to get him out for now until he drops weight.
      That dude looked kinda fat. That isn’t good for a body.
      All the extra weight is an injury waiting to happen.
      A guess, but you gotta
      Protect that man. And get him a nutritionist.

    130. BJ

      Hubert sorry actually I think the lesson is that if you bring in the right max contract keys to the championship guys, depth is kinda a moot point since you can get a year of ring chaser for free especially if you can offer them minutes. Risky in theory but seems like it’s been pulled off quite often.

    131. BJ

      This news of Kawhi trying to recruit KD to the clips has me feeling better about the Knicks braintrust scuttling any remote possibility of getting him as it becomes more apparent they never had a shot. Seeing as KD knew June 30 Kawhi wanted the clippers, what are the odds the FO had some sign that the Kawhi meeting was not going their way?

    132. Bruno Almeida

      Yeah, it’s still a major win by the Raptors. They were preparing to rebuild when DeRozan’s contract left the books next season, they just basically postponed that for one year with Marc Gasol’s 25 million contract they acquired. Once Lowry, Gasol and Ibaka expire in 2021 they’ll have like 80 million in cap space (pending a sure to come Siakam extension and maybe one for VanVleet), so they’ll have a pretty clean slate to rebuild.

    133. Hubert

      Hubert sorry actually I think the lesson is that if you bring in the right max contract keys to the championship guys, depth is kinda a moot point since you can get a year of ring chaser for free especially if you can offer them minutes. Risky in theory but seems like it’s been pulled off quite often.

      We’ll see. To my recollection, only Miami has pulled off building a championship team this way. Most of the teams that go for superstars plus ring chasers ultimately fail bc their weak links get exposed.

      Kawhi and George might work in LA but that doesn’t mean Durant and Kyrie would have worked in NY. The clippers have good supporting players. The Nets have good supporting players. We just had raw prospects.

    134. Hubert

      Rubio and Green are nice players, but you can find, say, 60% of their production from minimum/exception deals.

      Maybe you’re right. But that 40% you left behind would get picked apart in the deep end of the playoffs. It wouldn’t matter much in the regular season. But I wasn’t interested in building the Portland Trail Blazers.

    135. Owen

      Ujiri will probably make a mint sending those guys out next year to contenders if they aren’t one.
      Edit: 2021 is a bit worse. Still they will be a lot more watchable than us

    136. ess-dog

      I really don’t understand why this team didn’t take on one- or two-year deals in return for a first round pick or two—instead of overpaying Portis/Gibson. This is how you rebuild faster and better. Idk wtf we are doing instead… gestating mediocre 24-year-olds? As a fan, I’m ready to throw in the towel.

    137. Bruno Almeida

      @152

      You don’t think Cleveland is such an example? Or Boston with the big 3? The roster constructions differ because obviously the Lakers have taken the very extreme approach of only having a single player outside Lebron under contract with Kuzma, but it’s the same principle.

    138. thenoblefacehumper

      I really don’t understand why this team didn’t take on one- or two-year deals in return for a first round pick or two—instead of overpaying Portis/Gibson. This is how you rebuild faster and better. Idk wtf we are doing instead… gestating mediocre 24-year-olds? As a fan, I’m ready to throw in the towel.

      The most charitable possible explanation is that the specific Harkless and Iguodala deals weren’t available to the Knicks for whatever reason, so they decided to basically park the cap space in players that could be movable for assets at some point. It’s like the salary dump strategy, but with an unreliable middle man. I guess it’s better than just not hitting the salary floor.

      The reason I don’t think any of that is true is because they said specifically that they weren’t going to take on contracts for assets, which was incredibly bizarre and lends some credence to BC’s hope that it’s just a weird Dolan pride thing. It’s especially frustrating when it comes to Harkless, because his contract isn’t even remotely bad. He’s better than Bobby Portis!

      Having said all of that, even if it wasn’t their intention, I think there’s still a shot we could get some stuff for some or all of Bullock/Ellington/Portis/Gibson. All except Portis (easily the most mystifying signing of the bunch of mystifying signings) have the kind of niche skills teams are looking for at the deadline. If Justin Holiday can return two second rounders, there’s hope for us.

    139. d-mar

      So how bad did RJ look last night?

      Pretty bad. He rushed everything and his missed shots were clankers. Made one nice pass to Knox.

      Hoping it was just nerves, but he sure didn’t look “NBA ready”

    140. ess-dog

      @158 yeah I was specifically talking about that idiotic stance on taking back bad contracts. It’s not like they’re sooo much better positioned for the playoffs with the guys they got, gimme a break.

      And I even like Portis (at half what they paid) but do we need all those pfs?? It’s scary how Elfrid is far and away our best guard. This team will be awful (a good thing I guess as we’ll get another very high pick).

    141. TheClashFan

      What worries me most about RJ was how slow he looked. The concern that he might really struggle trying to overpower NBA players is real. Let’s hope he looks a lot better soon.

    142. djphan

      yea that was one of my big concerns and he looked not so great there but he was able to get to the hoop and finish … altho not looking all that smooth in the process…. everything outside the paint was a disaster tho….

      but he is working on it…. everything i’m hearing from drew hanlan his training coach is really spot on and gives me hope that he’ll get better at it…

      https://www.sny.tv/knicks/news/rj-barrett-has-been-working-on-these-two-facets-of-his-game-ahead-of-nba-draft/308220166

      his shot from high school to duke did get a lot better…. so i’m pretty sure he’ll continue to make progress there even though it might not be evident his rookie year… what’s way more important though is his ability to finish and his shot selection… if he’s hoisting that many 3s during the regular season he’s going to torpedo his value….

    143. GoNYGoNYGo - Dolan must sell

      What I didn’t like from Barrett was his lazy play. I know the game didn’t mean anything but he played defense like it was an allstar game. I don’t recall many passes. He wasn’t in the flow. He didn’t look like a lottery pick. But last year Knox did. On the other hand, when Zion ripped a ball out of Knox’s hand for a dunk, he looked all-world.

    144. The Honorable Cock Jowles

      If you could guarantee a Finals win (or hell, a competitive Finals run) and then be a shit (read: normal NYK) team for, say, the next five years? There isn’t a poster on this board who would pass that up. Obviously we all want a contender for a decade straight but there are thirty teams in the league and as Lord Hinkie said, wins are a zero growth field.

      Masai is playing 12d chess. It would be foolish to evaluate him (or Bob Myers) based on the whims of an enigmatic superstar who apparently seeks something else than money, fame and pantheon-level esteem from a thirsty-ass fanbase who had lionized him before he even put the trophy in the air. I really hope Masai gets the credit he so justly deserves.

    145. Owen

      I wouldn’t make any judgement off a summer league game.

      Of course I would!!!

      You can see the shape of a good player there but his scorer’s mentality will prevent him from reaching his full potential. It will also get him paid. That’s my prediction.

    146. ess-dog

      You can see the shape of a good player there but his scorer’s mentality will prevent him from reaching his full potential. It will also get him paid. That’s my prediction.

      Basically, everything you fear about Barrett.

    147. Hubert

      You don’t think Cleveland is such an example? Or Boston with the big 3?

      No. And we had this convo before. Boston had Pierce, Perkins, and Rondo on board when they added two stars to their team. Cleveland had Kyrie and Tristan when they added LeBron and Love.

      The Knicks have nothing. There has never been a team as bad as the one we have that added two max players. The ring chasers and vet min guys are fine as your 5th, 6th, and 7th guys. Not as your 3rd, 4th, and 5th.

    148. BigBlueAL

      I’m glad the Knicks right now can’t trade for Westbrook cause the new guys can’t get traded until Dec but it’s another example of how shortsighted it was to use up their entire cap space in 2 days on mostly veteran role players that the NBA is filled with. Now they don’t have cap space to trade for a player like Westbrook. Not him specifically mind you but scenarios like his situation.

    149. BJ

      Is Kawhi really that inscrutable? He left Canada for his hometown. He left Toronto for LA. He’s not even the first star to make a move like that to make a super team. TBH the Raptors were gonna have a real tough time repeating or even getting to the Finals, why not leave on top?

    150. geo

      just saw jorge masvidal rock a bar, and nunes beat holly with her own move…

      kind of hope jones goes to sleep, but, expecting him to beat santos up for 3 or 4 rounds and submit him…

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