Statistical Analysis. Humor. Knicks.

Thursday, August 16, 2018

Knicks Morning News (2018.07.19)

  • [SNY Knicks] How could Kawhi Leonard impact Knicks’ Summer of 2019 plans?
    (Wednesday, July 18, 2018 2:45:58 PM)

    Could Kawhi Leonard leave Toronto after this season and team up with another max player on the Knicks?

  • [SNY Knicks] Knicks are the most valuable NBA franchise
    (Wednesday, July 18, 2018 9:29:07 AM)

    The Knicks may not be the best team in the NBA, but they are the most valuable.

  • [NYPost] Why Kevin Knox’s Las Vegas breakout didn’t surprise his dad
    (Wednesday, July 18, 2018 9:44:38 PM)

    Kevin Knox planned to attend the ESPYs in Los Angeles on Wednesday, but a star was born in Las Vegas last week. And it didn’t surprise his father, Kevin Knox Sr., a former NFL wide receiver whose quarterback at Florida State was ex-Knick Charlie Ward. The 18-year-old Knox, the Knicks’ lottery pick out of Kentucky,…

  • [NYPost] The team most likely to end New York’s longest trophy drought
    (Wednesday, July 18, 2018 8:18:42 PM)

    May 5 passed without ceremony a few months back, passed without pause, and that was probably for the best. The Yankees beat the Indians that day, and the Mets lost to the Rockies that night. The Devils, the only one of five New York area winter teams to make the playoffs this year, were already…

  • [NYPost] Why Knicks are a quiet winner of Kawhi Leonard trade
    (Wednesday, July 18, 2018 2:15:15 PM)

    The Spurs’ decision to ship Kawhi Leonard to Canada stands as good news for the Knicks. While the Knicks were on the outside looking in on Leonard trade talks with San Antonio — even if they tried, they couldn’t match the Raptors’ DeMar DeRozan package — their chances of landing a top-notch free agent in…

  • 96 comments on “Knicks Morning News (2018.07.19)

    1. Brian Cronin

      How come we haven’t heard much about Cleveland recently? They presumably have to start making some moves, no? Are they seriously just going to bring back the same team sans Lebron but plus Colin Sexton and say, “Hey, let’s see what happens”?

    2. Farfa

      They’ll most certainly move Kyle Korver, it they find a suitor they’ll move Hill, they should move Kevin Love.

    3. swiftandabundant

      No matter what Cleveland does they’re gonna suck this year so why not be patient with Moving their veteran pieces to see what the best return is for those pieces? Not every rebuild has to start with a complete blowup on day one.

    4. ptmilo

      From yesterday.

      His defense is a weakness, but Pop got a team without Kawhi and with LMA to fourth overall in the league, so I’m confident he knows he can make DeRozen a competent defender.

      I’m really curious to see if the Spurs can keep it up on defense this year. They’ve been a top 3 defense for six straight years, which truly became an amazing thing last year when they finished 3rd without Kawhi. They still have Murray, who defends like Frank with quicker feet, but that’s pretty much it. They lost two plus defenders in Anderson and Green and added a minus defender in DeRozan. LMA will be 33 and Gasol turns 70 at the ASB. I feel like they slip all the way out of the top 10 but Pop so who really knows.

      I predict the Spurs to win 53 games next year.

      But this is really what it comes down to, nothing else matters. If you believe that the Spurs can win 53 games and a playoff series, then riding the current team and taking on $84 million of DeRozan could be a tolerable compromise. I think it’s unlikely. The West is even better this year and the Spurs have added two good players but also lost two productive players. Their best player will probably regress because he had a career year and is 33. 53 is a ton of wins in the West and even with Pop on the throne I would happily take under 50. I think this is more like a 40-something win team fighting for a bottom playoff spot. I just don’t think you sacrifice all those cap dollar assets and fail to get a better pick haul than #25 or whatever just to finish with 43 wins and maybe/maybe not getting into the playoffs. I do think Derrick White has a good chance to be a productive player this year so maybe he can help them surprise a little.

    5. Z-man

      Unless Lonnie Walker turns out to be the real deal…Pop must have seen something in him, like he did with another guy drafted in the teens a few years back…

    6. lavor postell

      I like Lonnie’s physical talent alot. If he can ever harness it and improve his decision making and overall mental underestanding of the game he has very high upside, but even if that comes to pass I’m very doubtful he’s going to have a major positive impact for the Spurs his rookie season. He needs time and patience to develop, not to be thrust into a key role from the jump.

    7. Early Bird

      2 Things:
      1) Who would even want any of Cleveland’s pieces? Everyone just watched them contribute absolutely nothing the last few years.

      2) Does Kawhi possibly fall off a cliff post injury and post spurs? We see so many players improve on the Spurs does Kawhi do the opposite?

    8. Farfa

      @9

      1) Love is definitely useful. Korver and Hill too, albeit a ton less, but they come with 2 years of contract. That, in conjunction with the fact that next year is lost for everyone, makes it so that it’s likely that only Korver will be moved.

      2) If I’m his next employer, I worry about his mental fortitude (and a mayyyybe degenerative injury). I just didn’t foresee this abrupt a change in his public persona, and I’m feeling a very slight Ron Artest vibe about Kawhi right now.

    9. Frank

      The Spurs thing seems semi-similar to the Celtics thing – -players really do seem to get worse when they leave.

      2016-17 Dwayne Dedmon (Spurs) – 0.189 WS/48 –> 2017-18 ATL 0.114 WS/48, BPM and VORP both worse with ATL. Part of that has to do with ATL sucking, but all the other stats got worse too.

      2016-17 Jonathan Simmons to 2017-18 Jonathan Simmons also got worse, although he also went to a crappy team so who knows.

      Cory Joseph basically fell off the map when he left the Spurs despite joining a good team in TOR

      Bellinelli had his two best years by WS/48 and BPM with the Spurs

      Tiago Splitter was outstanding with the Spurs, much less so after he left although some of that might have to do with injury.

      The most interesting thing is really how little turnover there has been on that team over the years.

      Will be interesting to see if Kawhi is still Kawhi outside Pop’s system.

    10. rama, king of superfluous poppycock

      @6

      53 might be a little optimistic, but Pop. And I wanted to be bold about it. 47 is much more reasonable, but not as fun.

      As much as I’m a believer in Pip, Kawhi is not gonna fall off after leaving the Spurs. Unless, of course, the injury is a Danny Granger thing and he never fully recovers. But otherwise, no. He isn’t Jonathan Simmons.

    11. The Glass Half Rebuilt

      DeMar DeRozan is in for a career year in San Antonio. I expect him to play the same game he always does but for Poppovich to call his number when appropriate and to get him the ball in spots where he’s most efficient. I’m interested in Murray’s play as a 3rd year guard, and I also think Jakob Poeltl as a 3rd year player could be really good down in San Antonio.

      As far as Cleveland goes, I’d love for us to trade them Lee/Thomas for George Hill. He’d be a rich man’s Jarrett Jack but the best part about him is his contract is only guaranteed $1M next year so he can be cut loose and not affect the cap. I’d be eager to offer them TH2 seeing that they’ll be playing for the playoffs this year without a 1st round pick, and TH2 has a player option on the 2020-2021 year of his deal so that’s essentially an expiring contract if you’re Cleveland. I don’t see Mills trading TH2 in a deal that doesn’t bring a star back, though, so I’d really just focus on moving Courtney Lee before the season starts. Dallas could give us Wesley Matthews for Lee and Thomas, but they probably want to preserve cap space, too.

      It’s looking like Sacramento is the place we’re going to end up shipping our big money deals. I wonder if Mills would do Tim Hardaway Jr for Buddy Hield.

    12. alsep73

      Shams:

      Restricted free agent Marcus Smart has agreed to a four-year, $52M deal to return to the Boston Celtics, league sources tell Yahoo Sports.

      And I would love shipping any and all of our bad contracts to Sacramento or Cleveland. Timmy for Hill would be an interesting challenge trade: a Mills mistake for a less egregious Perry mistake. Only both execs are now with the Knicks.

    13. GianaDani

      Think it was Woj who said that NYK were not one of the 9 teams that called San Antonio about Kawhi.

      This is annoying. Pick up phone and call; at the very least, its educational; you have more info on what the market really is and what other offers look like and not just the final offer; applaud Ujiri for taking this risk he took and hope the win the east this year.

      Cant wait to see on whom eventually Perry bets his job on. This is the last year of tanking; after he is going to have to start taking chances.

    14. Ntilakilla

      Question: I am thinking of becoming a vegan. Anyone here have experience with that dietary lifestyle?

    15. Bruno Almeida

      @16

      Two of my closest friends have tried, one of very successfully and the other gave up about 3 months in.

      If you can keep your nutrition balanced and make all the correct substitutions it can work really well, but it demands a very high level of discipline and, at least to start, some help from a professional could really be useful to understand which type of food to eat for what reason. The one friend that gave up had a super hectic lifestyle and couldn’t really afford to plan his meals accordingly, so he really suffered from it.

    16. Bo Nateman

      @16
      A co-worker converted to veganism with a great improvement in health( He is a marathoner). He started by consulting with a
      nutritionist, and because he has a hectic demanding schedule uses a meal delivery plan ( Blue Apron).

    17. bobneptune

      Question: I am thinking of becoming a vegan. Anyone here have experience with that dietary lifestyle?

      Are you considering a Vegan diet for moral purposes or health purposes? If for health purposes, the Vegan diet is sub optimal and I’ll be happy to explain why if anyone is interested.

      The optimal diet is primarily plant based, but eliminating all animal products causes many problems which can be discussed if interested.

      I am currently researching a book (and have been for 3.5 years) on this subject.

    18. Hugo Busto

      Rumors of Hawks shipping Schroeder/Muscala to OKC for Carmelo/ and picks???

      Melo would be immediately bought out.

      I also don’t really know how much money OKC really saves because Schroeder isn’t necessarily cheap. I think he would do well as a backup to Russ but he may be a bit of a cancer?

    19. Hubert

      Cant wait to see on whom eventually Perry bets his job on. This is the last year of tanking; after he is going to have to start taking chances.

      This is actually our first year of tanking. The other years we just sucked because we made moves to appease this kind of impatience.

      EDIT: I guess the year before The Decision was a tank job, too. So this is the second year the Knicks have not tried to compete in our lifetimes.

    20. TheOakmanCometh

      Rumors of Hawks shipping Schroeder/Muscala to OKC for Carmelo/ and picks???

      That doesn’t make sense for OKC if true. Schroeder/Muscala make $20m combined, so they wouldn’t save OKC much off their huge tax bill. Unless Presti thinks he can flip one or both for even lower salaries.

      That would be more defensible if Schroeder filled a position of need, but he’s going to be the backup behind a guy who plays 34 mpg and dominates the ball. So he won’t even help that much. $15m per year for 3 years is a big overpay for a backup on a capped-out team. Better to just stretch Melo.

    21. ess-dog

      I also wouldn’t recommend veganism for health because it eliminates options. Yes, if you’re a professional athlete and/or a millionaire with a private chef, that would make eating vegan a lot easier. But the healthiest diet involves self-cooking only real, unprocessed foods, which unfortunately doesn’t fit into many lifestyles.

      If you are going to go vegan, though, NYC is a better place to do it, since there are so many vegan restaurants/options.

    22. swiftandabundant

      More and more I want nothing to do with Kawhi. I mean we go on about Kyrie’s knees but Kawhi hasn’t played ball in over a year. Maybe he’s damaged goods. At the very least I want to see what he does in Toronto bc look at players that leave the Spurs and how they do post Pop. The record ain’t pretty. Of course, there hasn’t been a player of Kawhi’s caliber that has left the spurs in his prime but Pop is probably the greatest NBA coach ever, so I’m not convinced Kawhi will be the same Kawhi even if he’s not slowed down by this injury. And I really question the people who are giving him advice. This whole thing was handled very poorly. I know this site is typically pro players, anti owners but the spurs are the best franchise in the nba hands down with the best coach. You were the go to guy on that team. You’ve been to two finals and won one and won finals mvp bc of that team and that coach. And this rumor that he was threatening to sit out this year bc he didn’t want to be in Toronto. Even if that was just a thought he had initially to being traded…come on dude.

      I’m really not a fan of players dictating where they are traded to so they get to not only play for the team they want but also get that extra year and extra money. Like make a choice. If you want to go to specific team that is fine but the cost of that is the extra year on the contract. It seems like a fair trade off especially when you’re making over 20 million a year either way.

    23. swiftandabundant

      A vegan diet can be extremely healthy so don’t buy that BS. BUT, it is hard to do it properly. That is where people run into issues.

      Are you someone who eats meat and dairy every day? I would maybe test it out by just going vegetarian. That’s what I am. And even that I will allow myself some cheats every once in awhile. If I’m at a cookout and there aren’t veggie burgers, I’ll eat a hamburger. Or if I’m on vacation. But most days I do not eat meat. I still indulge in cheese and eggs, though, cause I can’t give up those two. But other subsititutions I’ve made…instead of half and half I use coconut creamer. Instead of milk I use almond milk. There are alot of substitutions you can make without going full on vegan to be healthy.

      I also live in LA where its very easy to eat vegan food anywhere you go. For me its more about staying away from processed foods and mainly sticking to a vegetarian diet. I probably eat meat once every 2 months.

    24. ess-dog

      Yeah @25 brings up the best point. It’s not an all-or-nothing game. Doing your best to reduce your animal product intake is fantastic for the environment and a less stressful way for you to diet.

    25. Ntilakilla

      Are you considering a Vegan diet for moral purposes or health purposes?

      Moral. I am beginning to take major ethical issue with the killing and torturing of animals for food.

    26. Ntilakilla

      I am currently researching a book (and have been for 3.5 years) on this subject.

      Really? Because I read the China Diet, which is the comprehensive study on this issue, and its ultimate conclusion is that the optimally nutritional diet is one based upon plant produce without pasteurized diary or meat.

    27. domiknick

      My 2 cents: I was a vegetarian/pescatarian for about 7-8 years during my college/post-college years (wanted to eliminate something from my diet to get healthier, it came down to beer or meat, I chose meat :D). This was roughly 15 years ago and let me just say there are MUCH more options now. I’m somewhat similar to swiftandabundant currently. We only buy almond milk at home, only get almond milk at coffee shops, etc., but we eat cheese and eggs, and occasionally partake in burgers and meat if/when we feel like it. Sometimes we order tofu when we’re out, sometimes beef or chicken.

      When I wasn’t eating meat at all I literally could not get above 150 pounds (I hovered around 145-148) and this was when I was drinking probably 4-5 nights a week. Granted I was younger and probably at my peak metabolism (I’m 5’10”). Once I started eating meat again, I almost immediately gained 10 pounds and couldn’t get UNDER 160 no matter how hard I tried. I’m currently around 170. Whether or not I was “healthier” back then I’m sure is debatable but my clothes certainly fit better. :)

    28. Hugo Busto

      That doesn’t make sense for OKC if true. Schroeder/Muscala make $20m combined, so they wouldn’t save OKC much off their huge tax bill. Unless Presti thinks he can flip one or both for even lower salaries.

      That would be more defensible if Schroeder filled a position of need, but he’s going to be the backup behind a guy who plays 34 mpg and dominates the ball. So he won’t even help that much. $15m per year for 3 years is a big overpay for a backup on a capped-out team. Better to just stretch Melo.

      Well Presti had a boner for Reggie Jackson, and I would say Shroeder is kinda similar. And honestly Russ playing with another athletic guard is pretty great. Shroeder could flourish as the 3rd or 4th option. I like OKC trying to take on a good player with a bad contract for Anthony. Not sure if Shroeder is the best available one but its a start.

    29. Ntilakilla

      Are you someone who eats meat and dairy every day?

      I am and have slowly begun to cut down my meat and diary consumption. I used Almond milk and am cutting out diary with the exception of cheeses. I feel as if the biggest problem will be finding variety among plant based sources that would allow me to enjoy a variety of nutritional and culinary choices.

    30. alsep73

      I’m with @25 and @26. My sister went vegetarian a while back, and one time when she came home for a visit, she insisted we get lunch at her favorite deli, where she got a corned beef sandwich. She said she looked at it like this: every non-meat meal she had was doing something good for the planet, and for her health, but if she satisfied a craving like this once in a while, it didn’t invalidate what she was doing the rest of the time. My daughter is now trying to go pescatarian, and says she feels guilty that she occasionally wants a burger, and I tell her what her aunt told me.

      One of my best friends is diabetic, went vegan on the advice of his doctor, and his whole family joined in to support him. They’ve all seen notable health benefits as a result (one of the kids is less ADD, another’s skin has cleared up), but they also do a periodic cheat day so it feels sustainable for everyone.

    31. Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada

      @Ntila

      Was vegan for a few months (vegetarian for several years) and it wasn’t particularly hard to transition to, though I love cheese. Stopped because of inertia, I guess. If you live in a relatively forward-looking American city it’s really not that hard to switch to veganism, but like others said, meal prep is really useful and key. It’s pretty easy to get your DRV of the vast majority of macros and micros on a vegan diet unless you’re trying to bulk.

      My partner has been vegan for over a year and it’s easy to make meals with her/go out to eat with a little creativity and milk/butter substitutes.

    32. Ntilakilla

      Wow, these are great stories. I really appreciate the perspectives, especially the ones which aren’t painting the issue in black/white terms. My own feeling is that the entire meat and dairy industry uses very unconscionable and unsustainable practices. But the struggle is a difficult one as my own culinary and dietary background is so omnivorously based. As a Hispanic, I already have an affinity for rice and beans so I have that going for me. But we’re not exactly well versed in plant based cooking. I think I am going to have to slowly cut certain food options out of my diet as I incorporate others. And then there’s the whole B-12 and Algae Omega-3 supplement thing.

    33. swiftandabundant

      Also, if you can buy whatever meat, dairy, cheese and eggs you do eat from a farmer’s market then at least aren’t contributing to factory farms. Again, easier to do if you live in a city that is relatively progressive.

    34. djphan

      opinions on animal cruelty is of course a matter of opinion… but the food/meat industry has been feeding the us industry for years and it’s done a good job of it… the problem with americans is that we eat too much .. and we eat too much of the bad things.. like sugar.. salt… refined carbs…

      organic is actually a really unsustainable process.. the us population cannot be fed on purely organic food for example…

      there’s a lot of myths surrounding the food industry as a whole so I would absolutely do more research… academic and peer reviewed and not some nutritionist blog… if you eat balanced and diverse and focus on consuming what you need.. that’s the biggest contribution you can make to yourself and the world…

    35. ClashFan

      I find the issue of a healthy diet bewildering. There are so many arguments and counterarguments.

      I’ve considered going vegan-ish and am concerned about how animals are treated. For example, what are the real differences between organic, cage-free, free range, etc. eggs and how chickens are treated? Maybe stop eggs entirely, but they are staples in the occasional low-carb diets that I go on to trim down.

      Ironically, I have the “hard part” for most people down: I exercise about an hour every day (biking, walking, jogging), even after totally cutting out team sports a few years ago. My hard part is changing eating habits.

    36. Bruno Almeida

      I mean, we’re like 2 months away from any relevant basketball development, so it’s not like there’s much to be discussed that we haven’t been talking about already.

      I have an ethical stance for myself that I try to buy as close to 100% of my food from sources I feel comfortable with, but I’m also a PhD student who can make my own schedule for the most part and I can afford the time to research this kind of stuff. Also, in Brasil the largest percentage of the food comes from small local farms and the sources are easily accessible, which makes it a lot easier to navigate. I’m not prepared to completely give up on meat and I don’t think I will anytime soon, but our food is generally not super meat based anyway so it’s a lower impact in my case.

    37. Ntilakilla

      there’s a lot of myths surrounding the food industry as a whole so I would absolutely do more research

      Thanks for the advice, but I’ve investigated the matter in some detail already.

      The growing majority of methane gases released into the atmosphere driving manmade climate change are not from automobiles but from the animal compost that our growing livestock release every day. Animal agriculture contributes generates 14.5% of global greenhouse gas emissions, the second highest source of emissions and greater than all transportation combined. It also uses about 70% of agricultural land, and is one of the leading causes of deforestation, biodiversity loss, and water pollution. So, to me, meat consumption just isn’t sustainable at current rates if we want to address our climate change crisis.

      And then there is intensive animal farming, whereby around 99 percent of all meat is produced, which is a very unethical industry where animals are basically kept in torturous conditions as their bodies are taxed producing eggs or milk until they are slaughtered. From what I understand free range farming isn’t much better. I have serious ethical questions about a civilization so addicted to meat consumption that it must resort to these processes to procure its animal proteins. So I am exploring an alternative way because the older I become the more I am coming to the realization that something living which can feel pain should be spared of harm in most cases not involving self-defense.

    38. Jp

      Don’t know if it has been mentioned already, but Michael Porter Junior just had his second back surgery. Thats a serious bullet dodged for the knicks imo. I think you have to give them credit for not drafting him at 9.

    39. geo

      cool conversation on the vegan/vegetarian diet choices…it’s a lot of fun to read folks perspective – much like basketball there are folks living by the “eye” test and others actually digging in to the data available…

      no doubt it’s a commendable attribute to be disciplined in your food consumption…gotta be honest though – the whole conversation immediately reminded me of vincent and jules…

      Vincent: Want some bacon?
      Jules: No man, I don’t eat pork.
      Vincent: Are you Jewish?
      Jules: Nah, I ain’t Jewish, I just don’t dig on swine, that’s all.
      Vincent: Why not?
      Jules: Pigs are filthy animals. I don’t eat filthy animals.
      Vincent: Bacon tastes gooood. Pork chops taste gooood.
      Jules: Hey, sewer rat may taste like pumpkin pie, but I’d never know ’cause I wouldn’t eat the filthy motherf***er. Pigs sleep and root in shit. That’s a filthy animal. I ain’t eat nothin’ that ain’t got enough sense enough to disregard its own faeces.
      Vincent: How about a dog? Dogs eats its own feces.
      Jules: I don’t eat dog either.
      Vincent: Yeah, but do you consider a dog to be a filthy animal?
      Jules: I wouldn’t go so far as to call a dog filthy but they’re definitely dirty. But, a dog’s got personality. Personality goes a long way.
      Vincent: Ah, so by that rationale, if a pig had a better personality, he would cease to be a filthy animal. Is that true?
      Jules: Well we’d have to be talkin’ about one charmin’ motherf***in’ pig. I mean he’d have to be ten times more charmin’ than that Arnold on Green Acres, you know what I’m sayin’?

    40. ethsurken

      For USA basketball in 2016, Knox measured 6’8.5″ in shoes, 8’10” standing reach, and 6’11” wingspan. At the NBA draft combine, he measured 6’9″ in shoes, 9′ standing reach, and 6’11.75″ wingspan. At the Kentucky pro at the beginning of the season, he measured 6’9″ with a 7’0.25″ wingspan (probably can’t trust that one). So maybe.

    41. Bruno Almeida

      So Schroeder and Muscala plus 2022 protected pick to OKC for Melo really happened.

      I can’t understand why OKC would want Schroeder at all, he’s just like Reggie Jackson and pretty much equally not good, and he doesn’t seem like a good fit alongside Westbrook and George at all, but they may not have had many offers to choose from.

    42. swiftandabundant

      My stance on eating foods I buy from a farmer’s market is also based on the idea that I want to support local, family farmers and not large corporate farms.

    43. Brian Cronin

      So Schroeder and Muscala plus 2022 protected pick to OKC for Melo really happened.

      I can’t understand why OKC would want Schroeder at all, he’s just like Reggie Jackson and pretty much equally not good, and he doesn’t seem like a good fit alongside Westbrook and George at all, but they may not have had many offers to choose from.

      I am stunned that they got anything for Melo, with everyone knowing that they were going to cut him otherwise.

      I know it was more about cutting Schroeder’s salary, but still.

      I now really want Atlanta to keep Melo and have him and Lin play together. :)

    44. Brian Cronin

      “The shocker of the 2018-19 season! Melo and Lin lead the Hawks to the playoffs!”

    45. Owen

      Didn’t realize it was three way trade with a buyout. All makes much more sense.

      Milke Muscala is a trade chip!

    46. Brian Cronin

      Muscala is a decent pickup for the Sixers. I was thinking that that would have made some sense for the Thunder, to add him, but now he’s in Philly.

    47. geehee

      http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/24141942/oklahoma-city-thunder-trade-carmelo-anthony-atlanta-hawks-dennis-schroder-mike-muscala

      Schroder comes to the Thunder for a desired need: another fast, playmaking point guard for a revved-up bench behind All-Star guard Russell Westbrook. OKC general manager Sam Presti and coach Billy Donovan were given permission to speak with Schroder before the agreement, and the three of them discussed his role with Oklahoma City.

      The Thunder could have saved $107 million with the waive-and-stretch provision on Anthony’s $27.9 million contract, but hunted a trade that allows them to save slightly less money and improve the roster. The stretch provision would have added $9 million-plus a year to the Thunder’s payroll for the next three years, dead money that could not be moved off the cap.

      The Thunder’s projected luxury tax bill, meanwhile, will drop from $150 million to $88.8 million, saving them $62 million. The Thunder will save an additional $11 million with Schroder’s $15.5 million contract and the $1.5 million cap hit of Luwawu-Cabarrot. The Thunder’s payroll stands at $148.7 million now.

      Schroder has three years at $15.5 million annually left on his deal, which makes it really worth $5 million a year to the Thunder because they would have had to pay $9 million of that over the next three seasons for Anthony. So, in essence, Oklahoma City is paying $5 million in each of the next three seasons for a 24-year-old point guard who has started 161 games in five NBA seasons

    48. Ntilakilla

      Lin’s balls to the wall headstrong style to the basket has caught up with him. Dude is superphysical but he takes a lot of licks.

    49. swiftandabundant

      My imagination got a hold of me for a moment and I was imagining Lin and Melo leading the Hawks to the 8th seed and pulling off a shocking upset over the Celtics in the first round. Lin and Melo hugging each other at half court after a game 7 victory.

    50. ClashFan

      I just can’t see Melo fitting in Houston. He could be an amazing tank commander somewhere, though.

    51. Bruno Almeida

      @59

      Exactly. They didn’t “get” anything from Melo, they absorbed a 3 year 45 million deal for a player who probably actively makes them a worse team. Schroeder is not only awful but he’s also a head case that has already made a big fuss about not starting and even runs the risk of being arrested and deported (which would at least means his contract is voided for OKC, might be the ideal scenario for them).

      Unless they can somehow trade him away eventually I really don’t see how it was a good deal.

      I’m also suspect since I cannot bring myself to praise a team for “great moves dodging luxury tax”, since as a fan it’s despicable to me that a damn billionaire is getting praise for getting to spend less money on his toy team. If that was the best offer they should have just waived Melo, if it were all up to basketball reasons.

    52. dtrickey

      Not sure why Presti is getting a lot of kudos for this deal on social media. They traded a first round pick for Schroder, who the Hawks have seemingly couldn’t even give away. Plus he traded for Melo in the first place, so there’s that. Also, my math might be wrong, but I don’t think the savings are that great if they had of just stretched Melo. I mean I guess they get a semi okay player in return as opposed to writing cheques to Melo for not playing, but on a whole Presti has only marginally improved on a situation he put himself in.

    53. dtrickey

      Also best tweet I have seen on the deal so far:

      @NOTSportsCenter

      NBA Multi team trade:

      Thunder get:
      -Dennis Schroder
      -Timothe Luwawu-Cabbarrot
      -Rid of Melo

      Hawks get:
      -Justin Anderson
      -2022 OKC First Round Pick
      -The excitement of cutting Melo

      Sixers get:
      -Mike Muscala

      Rockets get:
      -Alcoholism from watching 34 year old Melo try to shoot

    54. ClashFan

      Alcoholism from watching Melo try to shoot or madness from watching him iso and jab step over and over. Which comes first?

    55. Cock Jowles, #1 Purveyor of Wanton Chuckery

      r/nba tells me that Schroder was misused in Atlanta and Melo was misused in OKC

      I guess we’ll see, eh

    56. swiftandabundant

      Everyone seems so sure Melo will go to the Rockets but I don’t know. Seems risky with Dantoni as the coach. If Dantoni still doesn’t like him, I could see him benching him and there’d be nothing he could do about it.

    57. Cock Jowles, #1 Purveyor of Wanton Chuckery

      I would love to see Melo go to LA as a starter. Imagine the shock when the GOAT leads that team to 38 wins.

    58. Z-man

      Book it: Melo to NYK on a minimum deal, excited about returning to the city he loves and revitalizing his career while serving as a role model/mentor for Kevin Knox.

      cue: I’m comin’ home, I’m comin’ home…

    59. swiftandabundant

      I think Lakers are where its at. But come on Jowles, you can’t honestly believe that Melo is so bad that he would negate Lebron’s otherworldliness? I get that you hate the dude but that’s some next level shit.

    60. Cock Jowles, #1 Purveyor of Wanton Chuckery

      But come on Jowles, you can’t honestly believe that Melo is so bad that he would negate Lebron’s otherworldliness?

      I don’t know what you’re talking about. A missed shot is a missed shot, and that’s Carmelo’s specialty. LeBron played perhaps the greatest stretch of playoff basketball ever, and still his team got swept in the Finals because his team sucked.

      As important as a single superstar player can be, it’s still a 5-on-5 sport. If you have Carmelo giving up 2 points per game on each side of the floor, that means that LeBron has to work that much harder to make up for it. It’s not like being on the golf course and playing best ball. It doesn’t matter who misses a shot — it’s worth 0 points.

      Carmelo is not a league-average player anymore. He’s a league-worst player. You can’t undo that, only mitigate it. And considering how bad the Lakers roster is otherwise, I suspect that the under is going to be a very attractive bet if Melo goes to LA.

      I’m already looking forward to seeing the Houston line if Melo goes there. LA would be fun too.

    61. Bruno Almeida

      @63

      Really, the media does have this maddening obsession with creating geniuses out of every white nerdy looking dude who talks well. I thought they would stop a bit with Presti after last season’s debacle but now they’re seriously praising him for bringing a dude who’s paid 15 million a year, is a known head case and happens to play the same position of their superstar 35 mpg player, a guy that Atlanta has been trying to get rid of since last season’s trading deadline and couldn’t find any takers. And that’s when Presti created this situation in the first place by trading for Melo.

      I guess pointzz and volume scoring is valuable off the bench and x was misused plays a part in it, but it’s pretty annoying to watch how this guy gets treated every year as some sort of amazing genius.

    62. Donnie Walsh

      Moral. I am beginning to take major ethical issue with the killing and torturing of animals for food.

      After your political posts here left me hoping for a ban-hammer, I’m starting to come around on you :)

      I stopped eating dairy and meat a long time ago, because I don’t like the taste/effects of either, living a 98% vegan diet. I eat eggs, honey, and an occasional bit of salmon when there’s nothing else on the menu for me.

      The one thing I will say that is hard about being 100% vegan is that the desserts just aren’t as good. Too sweet, too unsatisfying. So when there are good cookies around, I am 100% NOT vegan.

      I’m an endurance athlete— a marathoner, a triathlete, etc… and I’m in my 40s now and feeling and performing better than ever.

      Which brings us back to basketball… a lot of the younger athletes are going plant based and as a result a lot of non-athletes are trying it too. That is a good thing for our culture, I think, as kids need dietary role models as the food industry is corrupt and the education system is way behind the reality of 21st century health.

      Good luck with it!

    63. Jack Bauer

      Poll

      Which would be more entertaining:

      Watching LeBron get pissed at Melo’s sucktitude in LA or
      Watching Chris Paul get pissed at Melo’s sucktitude in Houston?

      A fascinating debate….

    64. Cock Jowles, #1 Purveyor of Wanton Chuckery

      I appreciate Ntilikilla’s thoughtfulness on the ethics of consuming meat, but I also wonder where that thoughtfulness was when he was trying to force-feed us bullshit earlier in the week.

      You honestly think Melo makes the Lakers a 38 win team?

      It’s not just Melo, although he would be the cherry on top of a shit sundae.

      BPM, 2018

      Rondo, -1.1
      Stephenson, -2.1
      Hart, -0.1
      KCP, 1.0
      Ball, 1.7
      Kuzma, -1.3
      Ingram, -1.3
      Zubac, -2.2
      McGee, 2.6
      James, 9.6

      Melo, -3.8

      So yeah, you have to be real optimistic about LeBron’s aging curve, the youth development, or the magical positive synergy of interaction effects to see a contender in that team. I’m not ready to make predictions, but I would not be surprised to see them “underperform” and make some big, future-crippling trades before the deadline, a la 2017-18 Cavs.

      But who knows? I’ve been wrong before:

      http://knickerblogger.net/knicks-morning-news-2017-10-10/#comment-597484

    65. Bruno Almeida

      The Lakers lost Randle who was surely a productive player, Brook Lopez, who kinda sucked, and IT who was egregiously bad, but they replaced those guys with Rondo, Stephenson and McGee, so it should be a wash in the end.

      I think they really overachieved winning 35 games last season, but I’d be shocked if Lebron doesn’t add at least 10 wins or some to this group, unless he gets injured or something. I would have them at around 45-47 wins which last season would have them miss the playoffs or tie for the 8th seed.

      It sounds crazy to talk about it, but if they don’t make anymore moves it does seem feasible that a LeBron team could miss the playoffs or enter as a bottom seed underdog. Unless one or more of the young guys make big leaps the roster looks like actual garbage.

    66. dtrickey

      Watching Chris Paul get pissed at Melo’s sucktitude in Houston?

      *Chris Paul, James Harden and D’Antoni.

      That being said, I would vote for whatever is the more meme worthy a la the James/JR Game 1 situation.

    67. rama, king of superfluous poppycock

      It’s hard to imagine a team led by LeBron winning fewer than 45, but that group seems capable of it…

    68. JK47

      Ball and Ingram will both probably improve quite a bit. I was really down on Ingram as a rookie but he looked way better as a soph. He plays some nice defense and is developing a bit offensively too. I think he’ll end up being a plus player for them relatively soon. Lonzo’s shot is busted and they should probably completely tear it down and revamp his shooting motion but he does stuff the boxscore in other ways. The rest of the roster is pretty odd but I think they’ll be a playoff team.

    69. geo

      interesting day in basketball…

      remember first seeing schroeder and thinking what a fun dynamic player…great prospect…

      turns out he can’t play team ball so well…the beat down he was involved with off the court seemed like pretty reckless behavior…

      I can’t wait to watch him and westbrook on the court together…that’ll be fun…

      too funny – I can’t think of a single team melo can help…which is kinda weird cuz you would think he should still have a little bit of an offensive game left…he just can’t run/move anymore…

      maybe he should go vegan…

    70. geo

      schroder and some friends (two I think) got in a fight outside a restaurant and fucked someone up pretty bad…

      charged with battery I think…

    71. GianaDani

      So, Hawks dumped an overpaid guard at $15 million a year and got a 1st round pick for the privilege getting Melo out of OKC?

      Why not dump Timmy for a 1st round pick? He’s much better than Schroeder!!! Oh, Perry would have to make a call and see what’s going on first.

      Hope Melo just retires; no need to embarrass himself anymore.

    72. Bruno Almeida

      @82

      What geo said at 85, the recommended charge for the incident was aggravated battery. I don’t know if he could actually be deported or anything like that but there could be a case for just voiding his contract if he’s found guilty and is arrested.

    73. Cock Jowles, #1 Purveyor of Wanton Chuckery

      Zach Lowe has alluded to Schoder being a terrible locker-room guy. I’m not big on armchair psychology re: “winning culture,” but I’m reasonably certain that there are guys out there who alienate their teammates or annoy them to the point that they are not worth the roster slot.

    74. bidiong

      I love to eat cow. I actually made Chateaubriand for my family last Christmas and it was the best meal I ever ate.

      That said, I am a huge fan of plant based yumminess. If you’re looking for a great vegan cookbook go with the Engine 2 Diet. Excellent recipes that will make you happy with yourself while giving you good taste.

      I consistently make the soups in there and I could make most people think they were eating split pea soup with ham with their vegan version.

      I grow and preserve a ton of vegetables every year as well as make a ton of preserves from friends berry bushes. One of my best friends loves to grow corn so I blanche and freeze 200 or so so ears a year. Helps on the food budget and you know where you’re getting it from.

      If anyone wants to know anything about food preservation I have done just about all of it. I know how to pressure can and water bath and I do it all by the book. Let me know if you want to talk about it I’d love to spread that knowledge. I have some great recipes too!

      To great health for all!

    75. Bruno Almeida

      Well, he’s the guy who responded on twitter to news or Jeff Teague getting traded with this post:

      CAN’T DESCRIBE THIS FEELING !! I EARNED COACH TRUST & I REALLY APPRECIATE THAT OPPURTUNITY !!! ATL HAWKS??
      #CoachBud

      Like, not even a “thanks Jeff for everything buddy we’re gonna miss you” or anything, and then he demands a trade after two seasons… I’m not a veteran NBA player but oh well, I don’t think this kind of stuff looks very good in a locker room.

    76. geo

      @90

      I have this image now of someone smiling big, standing next to a cow and hugging it around the neck, and, that animal looking at you sideways –
      scared as hell…

    77. bidiong

      Lol. That’s fine. I believe that cows probably wouldn’t exist without us anyway at this point. :-D

      Actually where I live most cows are free range as well as chickens.

      Upstate NY has a lot of that going on. I’m actually raising honey bees next year and an thinking about doing meat rabbits.

    78. Cock Jowles, #1 Purveyor of Wanton Chuckery

      I hate how likable you all are when you’re not expressing basketball opinions.

    79. Ntilakilla

      I appreciate Ntilikilla’s thoughtfulness on the ethics of consuming meat, but I also wonder where that thoughtfulness was when he was trying to force-feed us bullshit earlier in the week.

      It’s the same level of thoughtfulness, actually. I don’t accept the word of authority without questioning it whether that authority is James Comey, Robert Mueller, the CIA, the DNC or our animal agriculture industry.

    80. danvt

      @95
      This guy is a pal of mine. Nice thoughts on nutrition / sustainability / ethics…
      Not as radical as a pure vegan diet (radical not necessarily the best choice of words, “difficult”?)
      I’m going to try to be more like this

      https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/19/opinion/mediterranean-diet-nutrition-weight-loss.html?action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=opinion-c-col-right-region&region=opinion-c-col-right-region&WT.nav=opinion-c-col-right-region

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