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Thursday, October 18, 2018

Knicks Morning News (2018.07.18)

  • [NYTimes] Liz Cambage Drops 53 Points, Breaking W.N.B.A. Scoring Record
    (Wednesday, July 18, 2018 1:59:18 AM)

    The Dallas Wings center was ruthlessly efficient in a win over the New York Liberty, breaking a record that had held since 2013.

  • [NYTimes] 76ers Foiled in Their Pursuit of Houston’s Daryl Morey
    (Tuesday, July 17, 2018 7:03:35 PM)

    The Sixers had strong interest in hiring Morey to replace the ousted Bryan Colangelo, but Morey could not be lured away.

  • [NYDN] Doctor’s oxycodone-prescribing case goes to federal jury in Brooklyn
    (Wednesday, July 18, 2018 3:00:00 AM)

    An octogenarian, oxycodone-prescribing doctor’s fate is now in the hands of jurors who have to decide if he illegally doled out more than 2 million pills to addicted patients.

    Brooklyn federal jurors began deliberating Tuesday on a range of illegal oxycodone-distribution charges against Dr. Martin…

  • [NYDN] Consign the drug war to history: We cannot prosecute our way out of the opioid crisis
    (Wednesday, July 18, 2018 2:00:00 AM)

    There were almost 64,000 overdose deaths in the United States in 2016, according to the Centers of Disease Control, and recent estimates suggest that this number continues to rise. All of us are scrambling for solutions at this critical moment.

    We are at a crossroads: Do we go back to the punitive,…

  • [NYDN] Elon Musk apologizes for saying Thai cave diver is a pedophile
    (Wednesday, July 18, 2018 1:45:00 AM)

    Billionaire businessman Elon Musk has apologized for calling a critic of his mini-submarine a pedophile.

    Musk had inserted himself into the rescue of the “Wild Boar” soccer team from a flooded Thai cave earlier this month, and bristled at criticism from diver Vern Unsworth who said that his offer…

  • [NYDN] Ocasio-Cortez in context: What the progressive socialist star needs to learn
    (Wednesday, July 18, 2018 1:05:00 AM)

    Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez outhustled a 10-term incumbent to win a Democratic congressional primary. But the young Bronxite socialist’s every word is now being amplified — by supporters who see her as an exemplar of a bold new progressive future, and by foes who want to paint her as the scary face…

  • [NYDN] Albany trash removal: Dean Skelos and son are convicted; the ethical swamp remains
    (Wednesday, July 18, 2018 1:00:00 AM)

    The hits keep coming: Eight times found guilty were former state Senate chieftain Dean Skelos and his ne’er-do-well son Adam in a replay of their 2015 trial, which showed Dean leaned on companies to pay Adam for no-show jobs.

    Off to prison with them. Too bad the judge can’t sentence those remaining…

  • [NYDN] Central Park’s Lasker pool and ice rink set for $150 million renovation
    (Wednesday, July 18, 2018 1:00:00 AM)

    Central Park’s swimming pool and skating rink are set for a $150 million makeover, the Daily News has learned.

    The city and the Central Park Conservancy will chip in for the project to rebuild Lasker Pool and Rink at the northern end of the park.

    The skating rink is run by President Trump’s Trump…

  • [NYDN] Russia wants to interrogate ex-U.S. ambassador McFaul, other Americans in criminal case
    (Wednesday, July 18, 2018 12:55:00 AM)

    Russian prosecutors want to interrogate American officials including former ambassador Michael McFaul over alleged involvement in money crimes in the aftermath of President Trump’s summit with Vladimir Putin.

    Putin had mentioned the alleged crimes of American-British financier Bill Browder when…

  • [NYDN] Readers sound off on Cuomo, de Blasio and Trump
    (Wednesday, July 18, 2018 12:00:00 AM)

    Albany: Your editorial “Roe, Roe, Roe the vote” (July 14), which questioned the need for expanding reproductive rights, was confusing, factually inaccurate and took an appallingly carefree attitude regarding the health and lives of women in our state. Why is Gov. Cuomo fighting day in and day out…

  • [NYDN] 17-year-old female student dies after medical incident during band practice at Long Island high school
    (Tuesday, July 17, 2018 11:50:00 PM)

    A female student entering her senior year at Sachem North High School on Long Island fell ill and suddenly died in front of over 90 fellow students Monday night, reports ABC7NY.

    The unidentified, 17-year-old student was attending band practice when she appeared to have a medical emergency and “tragically…

  • [NYDN] Woman’s decomposing body found floating in Hudson River
    (Tuesday, July 17, 2018 10:35:00 PM)

    Police found a woman’s decomposing body floating in the Hudson River off Riverside Drive in Manhattan on Tuesday night.

    A 911 caller spotted the woman’s body floating near 109th St. by Riverside Park about 8 p.m. An NYPD harbor unit pulled her body from the water and took her ashore at the 79th…

  • [NYDN] Man gets 44 years in prison for infant’s death in Colorado
    (Tuesday, July 17, 2018 10:35:00 PM)

    LOVELAND, Colo. — A man has been sentenced to 44 years in prison for the death of his infant son in northern Colorado.

    The Loveland Reporter-Herald reports Gabriel Navarrete was sentenced Tuesday for the December death of 8-month-old Adrian Dominguez. Navarrete, who previously pleaded guilty to…

  • [NYDN] Drunken ice cream truck driver crashes, injures 3 on National Ice Cream Day: police
    (Tuesday, July 17, 2018 10:00:00 PM)

    VIRGINIA BEACH, Va. — Authorities say a woman drunkenly crashed an ice cream truck into a car, injuring three people on National Ice Cream Day.

    News outlets report 35-year-old Ellaine Durham is charged with driving while intoxicated and three counts of hit-and-run for the Sunday crash.

    Virginia…

  • [NYDN] Bode Miller’s wife opens up for first time since shocking drowning death of daughter: ‘I pray to God no other parent feels this pain’
    (Tuesday, July 17, 2018 9:40:00 PM)

    Bode Miller’s wife is praying no other parent has to experience the nightmare she calls reality.

    “It’s been 37 days since I’ve held my baby girl,” Morgan Beck wrote in an extremely emotional Instagram post, accompanied with a beautiful photo of her 19-month old daughter Emeline Grier Miller.

    “I…

  • [NYDN] Brett Kavanaugh has record low support among Americans: poll
    (Tuesday, July 17, 2018 9:30:00 PM)

    Supreme Court nominee Brett Kavanaugh has the lowest vote of confidence among American in three decades, according to Gallup pollsters.

    Forty-one percent of Americans want lawmakers to confirm the federal jurist from Maryland, while 37% want him rejected for the bench job, the survey states.

    The…

  • [NYDN] Anne Rice’s ‘Vampire Chronicles’ picked up for Hulu series
    (Tuesday, July 17, 2018 9:30:00 PM)

    Hulu is bringing Anne Rice’s vampires back to life.

    The streaming service has landed the adaptation of the celebrated “Vampire Chronicles,” an 11-book series about an 18th century nobleman, Lestat de Lioncourt, who was turned into a vampire.

    Paramount Television optioned the rights in 2017, at…

  • [NYDN] ‘I HATE GAY PEOPLE': Brewers pitcher Josh Hader’s offensive tweets resurface during All-Star Game
    (Tuesday, July 17, 2018 9:20:00 PM)

    Hader’s gonna hate.

    Josh Hader is the latest athlete to have vulgar tweets from his younger years resurface on social media.

    Moments after the Brewers pitcher gave up a home run in the All-Star Game on Tuesday, screenshots of racist, sexist and homophobic tweets from the then-17, -18-year-old made…

  • [NYDN] Spitting-mad dad surrenders to cops after menacing straphanger in caught-on-video tirade
    (Tuesday, July 17, 2018 9:15:00 PM)

    A deranged dad who hit his toddler son in his stroller on a Manhattan E train, then pulled a knife on another straphanger in a vulgar tirade surrendered to police to face criminal charges for the unhinged episode, police said Tuesday.

    Edgar Rodriguez, 23, was caught on video menacing another subway…

  • [NYDN] Alex Bregman and George Springer go back-to-back in 10th to power AL past NL in record 10-homer All-Star Game slugfest
    (Tuesday, July 17, 2018 9:15:00 PM)

    WASHINGTON, D.C. — Astros teammates Alex Bregman and George Springer hit back-to-back home runs in the top of the 10th inning of the 89th All-Star Game as they powered the American League to an 8-6 win over the National League Tuesday night at Nationals Park.

    It was the sixth straight win for the…

  • [NYDN] VIDEO: Justin Verlander predicted Aaron Judge would hit home run in All-Star Game
    (Tuesday, July 17, 2018 8:55:00 PM)

    Justin Verlander called it.

    Leading up to Yankees star Aaron Judge’s first plate appearance at Nationals Park Tuesday, Verlander continuously predicted that his AL All-Star teammate was going to hit a home run.

    Verlander even proclaimed so on an Instagram live while the game was happening.

    His…

  • [NYDN] N.J. couple charged with smothering 4-month-old when he would not stop crying
    (Tuesday, July 17, 2018 8:35:00 PM)

    Wipe that ghoulish grin off your face.

    The New Jersey father busted for smothering to death his 4-month-old baby with a cheap motel comforter flashed a wide smile for his mug shot despite having the charges upgraded to murder on Tuesday.

    William Herring, 42, and the mother of his son, Brianna Brochhausen,…

  • [NYDN] 12th suspect in Lesandro machete slaying hauled back to Bronx to face charges, denies role in murder
    (Tuesday, July 17, 2018 8:15:00 PM)

    A 12th suspect in last month’s shocking machete murder of an innocent Bronx teenager is back in New York to face murder charges in the mistaken-identity killing.

    Luis Cabrera Santos, 25, was busted in Connecticut last week when a state trooper’s license plate reader showed Santos’ car was connected…

  • [NYDN] Former FBI Director James Comey urges voters to support Democrats in fall
    (Tuesday, July 17, 2018 8:10:00 PM)

    WASHINGTON — James Comey, the FBI director who was fired last year by President Trump, is urging voters to support Democrats in November’s midterm elections.

    Comey says on Twitter that the “Republican Congress has proven incapable of fulfilling the Founders’ design that ‘Ambition must … counteract…

  • [NYDN] Cops offer $10,000 reward for info on Bronx triple murder suspect
    (Tuesday, July 17, 2018 8:05:00 PM)

    The NYPD wants to cross a Bronx triple murder suspect off the wanted list – and they’re offering a $10,000 reward to anyone who can help put him behind bars.

    Cops on Tuesday announced the reward, paid by the city’s Police Foundation, for info leading to the arrest and conviction of 51-year-old…

  • [NYDN] Manny Machado is headed to Dodgers, but Yankees still have eyes on him in 2019
    (Tuesday, July 17, 2018 8:00:00 PM)

    WASHINGTON – First, LeBron James.

    Now, another star is headed to L.A. — and hopefully, they still have those old Mannywood signs handy.

    A decade after acquiring Manny Ramirez, the Dodgers have acquired Manny Machado in a blockbuster deal with the Orioles.

    While there may still be some medical approval…

  • [NYDN] Stray bullet strikes, kills 9-year-old girl sleeping in New Jersey home
    (Tuesday, July 17, 2018 8:00:00 PM)

    BRIDGETON, N.J. — A 9-year-old girl was shot and killed by a stray bullet as she slept in her bed early Tuesday, and authorities urged witnesses to come forward to help find the killer.

    The shooting happened around 12:30 a.m. about a block away from the girl’s home in Bridgeton, a city of about…

  • [SNY Knicks] Knicks’ Kevin Knox named to All-NBA Summer League first team
    (Tuesday, July 17, 2018 6:15:50 PM)

    Knicks rookie Kevin Knox has been named to the All-NBA Summer League first team.

  • [SNY Knicks] Knicks’ Hardaway Jr. almost gave up on basketball: ‘It was a dark period’
    (Tuesday, July 17, 2018 4:20:06 PM)

    Rock bottom for Knicks G Tim Hardaway Jr. was a five-hour bus ride through the snow in Ohio.

  • [SNY Knicks] Potential Knicks target Kevin Durant takes Dyckman by storm
    (Tuesday, July 17, 2018 11:15:33 AM)

    Two-time NBA champion and two-time Finals MVP, Kevin Durant, showed some love to one of New York City’s basketball staples, as he made a surprise visit to Dyckman Park.

  • [NYPost] Kevin Knox picks up early honor for Knicks with dazzling play
    (Tuesday, July 17, 2018 7:10:44 PM)

    The Knicks and their fans only hope it continues when it counts. In his opening act, Knicks lottery pick Kevin Knox provided hope — and 21.3 points a game — and as a result landed on the first team of the All-NBA Summer League teams. Behind Knox’s athleticism, the Knicks finished the competition in Las…

  • [NY Newsday] Kevin Knox picks up early honor for Knicks with dazzling play
    (Tuesday, July 17, 2018 7:10:44 PM)

    The Knicks and their fans only hope it continues when it counts. In his opening act, Knicks lottery pick Kevin Knox provided hope — and 21.3 points a game — and as a result landed on the first team of the All-NBA Summer League teams. Behind Knox’s athleticism, the Knicks finished the competition in Las…

  • 163 comments on “Knicks Morning News (2018.07.18)

    1. Totes McGoats as Totes McGoats

      Whaaaaaaa?

      I would never have imagined Pop would coach a player like DeRozan. Having him and Aldridge is probably gonna stretch his coaching out quite a bit more. Pop is arguably the GOAT, so I think he can do it…but…wow. HUGE risk by The Drakes if they pull this off

    2. Zanzibar

      That would be a positive for the NYK. Remember Kawhi’s people were trying to push him to the Knicks, a big market team. If Mitch plays like KG did in his rookie year and KP returns healthy, Kawhi/Butler/KD/Kyrie are gonna be banging at the MSG doors to get in next summer.

      Meanwhile back to Butler:
      Knicks……….Butler
      Wolves………THJ, Courtney
      Kings…………Dieng, NYK 2020 pick

    3. Zanzibar

      Okafor still available. What about offering BAE on a 1 year deal plus team option? We’d have early bird rights at the end of the two years. KP and Mitch are the future starters but Okafor could supply scoring punch off the bench.

    4. GianaDani

      Bulls swapped picks, got a scrub in Dunn and an overpaid Zach LeVine for Jimmy Butler. He’s now toxic & a year older, so Timmy & a 2nd is very fair but I would push for Lee & Lance with two 2nds.

    5. Frank

      Okafor still available. What about offering BAE on a 1 year deal plus team option? We’d have early bird rights at the end of the two years. KP and Mitch are the future starters but Okafor could supply scoring punch off the bench.

      um no thanks
      here’s all you need to know about Okafor. hard pass.

      Re: Butler – it certainly feels like any kind of deal like this would be “skipping steps”. That said — if all it takes is THJ + a future pick it’s sort of a no-brainer.
      Not sure about the Noah and Dieng part of it. I would not really want the rest of Dieng’s contract even though he’s infinitely more useful than Noah. Don’t have time to really look into it but I would assume not being able to stretch Noah would prevent us from having a max slot for next summer, especially given Butler will prob have a $30MM cap hold.

    6. alsep73

      @MrMichaelLee: How many trades can you recall where both of primary players involved are furious with the move? Kawhi Leonard asked to go home. Not out of the country. DeMar DeRozan has never wanted to leave Toronto.

      Chris Haynes says “Kawhi Leonard has no desire to play in Toronto, league source tells ESPN.”

      Get your popcorn ready.

    7. Knick fan not in NJ at this time

      There should be no need to include a first rounder in a trade for Butler. Remember Paul George was traded to OKC under similar circumstances a year ago for two relatively young players and no picks. I would say George was more valuable too. He was 27 where Butler is almost 29 and an Olympian and all that. If we are willing to Hardaway and something small besides, that should be enough.

    8. Farfa

      I’ve never seen someone go from apathetic to curmudgeon in such a short time. Am I the only one who feels like there’s something bad going on in Kawhi’s life?

    9. Knick fan not in NJ at this time

      You could be right. The injury, and his team’s reaction to it, might have been very hard on someone who only wants to play basketball.

    10. Hubert

      That said — if all it takes is THJ + a future pick it’s sort of a no-brainer.

      You have to include the opportunity to draft RJ Barrett, Cam Reddish, Zion Williamson, or Nasir Little to the cost of any Butler trade. And that’s where it becomes too expensive. There’s a lot of projected studs at the top of the next draft.

      There was an argument yesterday about having the worst record in the league for 17 years and it not getting us anywhere. That’s very disingenuous. Everyone here knows we compiled that record by consistently being the 6th to 10th worst team in the league. A top pick in a top heavy draft has eluded us every year except one.

    11. Hubert

      This would be similar to the time we traded spare parts for Zach Randolph. In a vacuum, it was a good trade. But all Zach did was play well enough to get us out of the top draft positions. The ultimate result of the trade was we gave up Russell Westbrook, Channing Frye, and Steve Francis for Zach Randolph and Danilo Gallinari. Pretty lopsided, even if you have a low opinion of Russ.

    12. thenoblefacehumper

      If DeMar DeRozan really is the primary piece coming back for the Spurs, I think they may have fully lost their way.

    13. GoNyGoNyGo

      I don’t think, with TOR, PHI and BOS in the Atlantic that it’ll be brutal. The Knicks and Nets will be brutal.

      @12 – Bingo! We haven’t been the worst in any year, but cumulatively, we have been the worst. We’ve lived in draft-day purgatory. One day I hope we end up with the 30th pick with our pick ;)

    14. DRed

      Spurs have agree to trade Kawhi Leonard and Danny Green to Toronto for DeMar DeRozan, Jakob Poeltl and a protected 2019 first-round pick, league sources tell ESPN. Trade call with league office is starting shortly.

      Lol

    15. Frank

      You have to include the opportunity to draft RJ Barrett, Cam Reddish, Zion Williamson, or Nasir Little to the cost of any Butler trade. And that’s where it becomes too expensive. There’s a lot of projected studs at the top of the next draft.

      I wouldn’t imagine that it would be an unprotected 2019 first-rounder given that Butler is essentially a rental (ie. there is no way in the world I give up an unprotected 1st).

      Also I was under the impression the 2019 draft is supposed to be extremely weak anyway.

      re: Kawhi – I think the Lakers are making a huge mistake not getting involved in this. They already had Paul George not come as an unrestricted FA. Say Lebron finally shows his age, or gets hurt, or the team just isn’t good. Does Kawhi want to go to LA just to play in LA? We don’t know what the ultimate deal with the Raptors will be but if it’s Derozan coming back (who is probably overpaid, doesn’t play defense, and is a bad shooter) then you’d have to think that the price for LA is pretty doable – meaning it’s not going to be Ingram + Kuzma + Hart + picks — prob just one of the 3 plus pick(s).

    16. Frank

      Wow that’s a nice deal for Toronto.
      They get out from under Derozan’s contract, pick up 2 elite defensive wings, send a middling center and protected 1st? that is nice.

      You can’t tell me that the Lakers couldn’t have beaten that deal. Maybe the Spurs really just didn’t want to send him there, both for competitive reasons and also to make sure they did not reward Kawhi for his behavior.

    17. Jack Bauer

      That Kawhi trade for Derozan makes no sense for either team, not to mention the players don’t seem too excited about it either. Amazing.

      There is little chance that Leonard would want to re-sign in Toronto based on all reports and there is the uncertainty of his injury status. Big risk for Toronto all for the reward of getting rid of Derozan and the 83 million remaining on his contract. Uriji will either look like a genius or an idiot when this shakes out. Edit – actually not bad by getting Green too and the other assets surrendered aren’t much. Still don’t see Leonard re-signing with the Raptors.

      Derozan doesn’t seem like the Spurs type of player and I’d think they would be able to get more and/ or better for him. It almost sounds like Pop is giving Leonard and his team the big F U by sending him as far from LA as you can get in the NBA.

    18. Frank

      The Kawhi trade makes perfect sense for Toronto.
      They prob didn’t really want Derozan and the 3 years left on his contract anyway.
      They really get to make a push this year in a year that maaayybee the Sixers and Celtics aren’t quite ready to make the leap.
      Lowry, Green, Kawhi, Anunoby, can put Ibaka at center – that defense is going to be insane.

      Even if Kawhi leaves, they can do a total reset in 2021 with only $10MM on the books for that year.

      Freaking Masai.

    19. Hubert

      I wouldn’t imagine that it would be an unprotected 2019 first-rounder given that Butler is essentially a rental (ie. there is no way in the world I give up an unprotected 1st).

      I understand. I was implying that Jimmy Butler is good enough that there’s no way we can finish bottom 4 with him on the team. But he’s not good enough to get very far with the team we’re likely to surround him with next year. He is the perfect player to get us back into Frank Ntilikina/Kevin Knox purgatory.

      Also I was under the impression the 2019 draft is supposed to be extremely weak anyway.

      It’s a top heavy draft. Barrett is the jewel for now. Jowles favorite, Zion Williamson, is an extremely intriguing prospect who evokes Draymond Green. Cam Reddish, Romeo Langford, and Nasir Little also project very well. And there’s a French combo forward people are high on. It’s definitely not a year you want to be selecting 9th.

      Some links I’ve been perusing, since I don’t expect to have anything to look forward to watching the Knicks this year:

      https://www.thestepien.com/2019-draft-rankings/

      https://www.si.com/nba/2018/05/11/nba-draft-2019-prospect-rankings-rj-barrett-zion-williamson

      https://www.sbnation.com/nba/2018/6/22/17473998/nba-mock-draft-2019-duke-zion-williamson-rj-barrett-cameron-reddish

    20. Farfa

      Mmmmh, the Spurs roster looks horrible right now. Murray-DeRozan-Gay-LMA-Poeltl as their starting five? Who’s gonna even defend them on the perimeter?

    21. thenoblefacehumper

      Poeltl is solid and could get better, but is also the only legitimately good asset in a package for Kawhi freakin’ Leonard (pick is 1-20 protected). That’s insane.

    22. Farfa

      Well, sooner or later everything ends. It’s just surprising to see it go this way. Not even sure I like the trade on the Raptors’ side, I mean, Leonard is great if healthy… but I have a feeling that he’s not gonna play there for more than 50 games total.

    23. Ntilakilla

      Popovich sent a clear message to Kahwi with that trade. I love it. He’s rebuilding the moment Kahwi made his willingness to leave clear and was getting fleeced with the only teams who Leonard intimated a willingness to sign an extension with.

    24. Knick fan not in NJ at this time

      The trade fills needs for both teams, which is why I proposed it weeks ago. San Antonio needed a scoring guard to replace Parker, who is old and was getting worse even when he was still on the roster. And they want to get a name high level player to replace Kawhi. Toronto probably concluded that having most of their offensive talent at the guard positions wasn’t cutting it in the playoffs and they had lots of salary in DeRozan and Lowrie. They need someone like Kawhi much more than they need to have both Lowrie and DeRozan.

    25. MSA

      I don’t think it’s that bad for the Spurs.

      Derozan could be overrated but he’s a good player. He’s kinda prime Melo right now: .170WS, 1.8 BPM and 2.6 Vorp.

      Poetl is solid and young also and they got a pick. And it’s better than seeing Kawhi on a conference rival.

      For the Raptor OTOH, is a HUGE gamble. Kawhi is hurt and could leave for nothing in one season.

      I guess they have to try something different, since Lowry could start declining real soon and they aren’t good enough to beat the Celtics or maybe Philly.

    26. Ntilakilla

      he got fleeced anyway

      Which was going to happen the moment Kahwi made it public that he would only sign an extension with a few teams. At least this way Popovich 1.) trades him outside the Western Conference, and 2.) trades him to a place he didn’t want to go as payback. Nice.

    27. ptmilo

      Derozan could be overrated but he’s a good player. He’s kinda prime Melo right now: .170WS, 1.8 BPM and 2.6 Vorp.

      DDR had a good year but it was his best year and he is 29 now. And he still didn’t earn his salary He is a well below average defender and has been one of the worst playoff performers ever with a ton of minutes. he is making $28 million for three more years and will cap out the spurs on a team that has no chance of contending in the west. what is the point of this move if you’re SA? the pick is top 20 protected, so worthy little.

      poeltl is a nice addition but he is not enough.

    28. Stratomatic "Porzingis, Ntilikina, Knox & Robinson are going to lead us to the promised land

      If DeMar DeRozan really is the primary piece coming back for the Spurs, I think they may have fully lost their way.

      Maybe they were never as smart as people thought to begin with.

      When you already have Robinson, he gets hurt, and that lands you the greatest all around PF in league history that is also willing to play for a discount when required, you will have a monumental advantage and just need a little more luck and competence to be a major player for a very long time.

      The Spurs have done a series of dumb things in recent years. I predicted they were about to fall apart last year before it started to become apparent. They have some old and overpaid players. They just added a player whose game does not translate well to the playoffs because he doesn’t get the same foul calls and they don’t have a ton else. I’d rather be the Knicks than the Spurs right now.

    29. ptmilo

      @31 that’s great if you think you are in kill bill 4 and your main job as a gm is revenge. but if you’re trying to build a sensible team it does not make sense to cap yourself out with overvalued players. if you’re going to deal kawhi you need to focus on getting future assets. I know it’s crazy to sit here and criticize the spurs of all teams but I think they’ve had a horrendous offseason by failing to match a good kyle anderson contract and putting their team on an official nowheresville trajectory with DDR. also danny green will be useful for toronto this year who now can throw some crazy fucking defenses at you.

    30. MSA

      Danny Green can still play defense but he’s their version of Courtney Lee and declining fast.

      It’s a good thing for them that they got rid of him.

    31. english_knick

      @16 – I mean brutal as in brutally tough. The three best teams in the east are in there. 12 pretty guaranteed losses for us… hence the viva la tank comment!

    32. Ntilakilla

      but if you’re trying to build a sensible team it does not make sense to cap yourself out with overvalued players

      As opposed to what? Has anyone found a better trade partner? I think it’s great to speculate on all of the many great players Popovich could’ve acquired from Kawhi’s preferred destinations but his leverage was out the window the moment Leonard’s camp made it clear he would only accept an extension from a few organizations.

    33. d-mar

      Maybe Masai is gonna flip Kawhi for that Lakers package that was being offered to the Spurs.

      Which would be a pretty damn good return for DeRozan and Poetl.

    34. 2FOR18, understands math

      tin foil hat time: Pop sends Kawhi from a no income tax state to Canada lol. This should cost Kawhi 10-20% of his net pay.

    35. GianaDani

      Kawhi is a young MVP type player on a cheap contract and Ujiri is not a stud?

      When Toronto is versing Golden State in the finals, KD is locked up and out of necessity Boogie wins finals MVP, Ujiri will be celebrating his GM of the year award. If Kawhi sign extension then he really scored and got into the GM of the decade conversation.

      If he doesn’t sign extension, Ujiri will flip him to someone like us for a us an expiring (Noah), our best young player (Knox. Frank or Mitch) and an unprotected 1st.

    36. Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada

      This trade is a huge coup for Toronto–even if Kawhi doesn’t re-sign it basically acts as a salary dump for DDR’s fairly horrendous contract. I’m shocked that they didn’t have to give up Anunoboy. Masai gets the crown as best GM now that it seems like Spurs management needs to be taken behind the shed.

      Spurs aren’t making the playoffs this year and are gonna draft like 13.

    37. Owen

      Maybe the Spurs will flip Derozan and this will all make sense. Doesn’t make much sense to me now though. Signing LMA and trading for Derozan just not like the Spurs of old.

      EDIT: I see D-mar got there first

    38. ptmilo

      It’s a good thing for them that they got rid of him.

      he is better than lee and has one year left on his contract for $10 million, so there’s no world in which it is “good thing” for them. he was as good a shot blocker last year as ibaka and andre drummond. he probably is in decline but he is not a liability.

    39. DRed

      Danny Green is not very good, but yeah, his deal only runs through 2019. The Spurs are still going to have to pay DeMar 55 million after that.

    40. thenoblefacehumper

      If the Sixers and Celtics made literally any offer, it’s hard to believe it wouldn’t be better than what the Spurs took.

      I mean, it would be almost impossible for it to be worse than taking on DDR’s toxic contract, getting a nearly fake first rounder, and Poeltl (who I like but this is Kawhi Leonard we’re talking about).

      I have no idea what’s going on in San Antonio, but drafting Lonnie Walker, letting Kyle Anderson walk for peanuts, and this to top it all off is really weird. I don’t think they’re pulling the rabbit out of the hat this time.

    41. Hubert

      Maybe they were never as smart as people thought to begin with.

      They’re pretty smart, but I think people underestimated how important it was to have Duncan. Duncan was the Chris Partlow that allowed Pop to run around like Marlo Stanfield. He embarrassed Kawhi on many occasions, including one game I witnessed at the Garden where he subbed him out on like the second possession. I think it’s harder to get away with that act when Timmy isn’t standing behind you making sure everyone does what you say. And Pop may be suffering from self-attribution bias.

    42. MSA

      he is better than lee and has one year left on his contract for $10 million, so there’s no world in which it is “good thing” for them. he was as good a shot blocker last year as ibaka and andre drummond. he probably is in decline but he is not a liability.

      He may be better than Lee but not much.

      His WS, BPM and VORP are declining since 2015 and it’s quite possible that his BPM could be in negative territory next season.

      He’ a good shot blocker for a SG. Great! But he also had a .509 TS%. So which one is more important for a 3 and D guy?

    43. Totes McGoats as Totes McGoats

      I think DeRozan is stuck in San Antonio…or rather the Spurs are stuck with him. I don’t see a rational flip for him unless the Clips want him and are offering picks and Gallinari. Kawhi on the other hand…Ujiri can easily flip him. The Lakers..the Knicks..Boston..the Mavs..and maybe even Brooklyn can offer a good haul for him. So..Kawhi is a major coup for the Drakes. Risky..but a coup nonetheless.

    44. Cock Jowles, #1 Purveyor of Wanton Chuckery

      Green is 31. People need to stop this nonsense that a player’s prime continues after 30 just because LeBron exists. He’s not getting any better. The best you can expect from a player over 30 is that he replicates the previous year’s production.

      My guess is he’s out of the league by 2021, or playing on the Channing Frye/Richard Jefferson/Gerald Green/David West ring-chase contract.

    45. wetbandit

      I really don’t see a great top prospect next year (disclaimer- based off reports, not my own observations). I mean, RJ Barrett is am OK defender with great ball handling, but not a good shooter. Eh. Zion Williamson has great athleticism, gets to the rim and takes high-perc shots, but poor defensive motor? Eh. The others are eh too. Needs a year to sort out, but unclear that there is a Fultz/Towns/Doncic here.

    46. Donnie Walsh

      Poeltl is solid and could get better, but is also the only legitimately good asset in a package for Kawhi freakin’ Leonard (pick is 1-20 protected). That’s insane.

      The Bargnani trade is the gift that keeps on giving for the Raptors…

    47. Cock Jowles, #1 Purveyor of Wanton Chuckery

      The Lakers..the Knicks..Boston..the Mavs..and maybe even Brooklyn can offer a good haul for him.

      Why would the Knicks, Mavs or Nets trade for him at midseason, being lottery teams that have a 0.001% chance of signing him as a UFA that summer?

    48. ptmilo

      Green is 31. People need to stop this nonsense that a player’s prime continues after 30 just because LeBron exists. He’s not getting any better. The best you can expect from a player over 30 is that he replicates the previous year’s production.

      My guess is he’s out of the league by 2021, or playing on the Channing Frye/Richard Jefferson/Gerald Green/David West ring-chase contract.

      find me the post you are responding to that claimed he was in his prime or getting better. he looked great defensively last year and was still a useful player. his contract is expiring so it doesn’t matter where he spends his 2021.

    49. Zanzibar

      Does Magic wait until Dec 15th and then offer KCP and some youth and/or picks for Butler?
      OR
      Does he wait to try to sign Kawhi next summer?

    50. Stratomatic "Porzingis, Ntilikina, Knox & Robinson are going to lead us to the promised land

      Green is 31. People need to stop this nonsense that a player’s prime continues after 30 just because LeBron exists. He’s not getting any better. The best you can expect from a player over 30 is that he replicates the previous year’s production.

      Green looks like he’s declining, but there’s little question that players in general are extending their productive years a little longer now than in the past. That’s what all the rest, minutes limitations, and greater knowledge about the human body is doing.

      That’s not the same as saying they will continue to get better. It’s just not as risky in general to give a player a 4 year contract in his late 20s even though the last couple of years might be on the wrong side of 30. It depends on the player.

    51. swiftandabundant

      I think an interesting aspect to this trade is how the good players in this league really do have a lot of power now in where they go and that is why you aren’t seeing the hauls that people would expect when you trade Kawhi Leonard.

      The very best (KD, Lebron, Curry) will usually have no trade clauses. The cap has gone up enough to where the next tier of players are all making big money and therefore losing one extra year of guaranteed money and the extra money you make every year for resigning with the team that has your bird rights doesn’t seem as big of a loss. So when they are unhappy they can make it known and they can basically say this is where I want to go and if you trade me to anywhere else, I won’t sign an extension with them. So teams aren’t going to make Melo type trades anymore out of fear that they will miss out. And teams might take a risk for them like the Raptors but they aren’t going to trade the farm for a player even of Kawhi’s stature bc they know there’s a good chance that player won’t stay after their contract ends.

    52. DRed

      DeRozan is a good player, he’s obviously a very hard worker, he’s in his prime and maybe Pop can make him even better. However, even if he does, he’s paid like a superstar. There’s no real upside value. Poeltl is a good young player. The real problem with the deal is DeRozan’s contract.

    53. Cock Jowles, #1 Purveyor of Wanton Chuckery

      Green looks like he’s declining, but there’s little question that players in general are extending their productive years a little longer now than in the past. That’s what all the rest, minutes limitations, and greater knowledge about the human body is doing.

      Do you have any evidence for this, or is this all made-up?

    54. swiftandabundant

      Its actually not surprising to me that the spurs are finally messing things up. If you’re a 50 plus win team for over 25 years (they were very good in the 90s before Duncan people forget)…it must be hard to realize that its all finally coming to an end and you have to do a rebuild.

    55. ptmilo

      Green admittedly looked ridiculously bad in the playoffs last year, like what you’d expect if you filled up giancarlo stanton with ambien and told him to try basketball. but Green has generally been a terrifically valuable playoff player because of his defensive versality, and that part of him didn’t really seem to slow down last year. I think the odds are good that even a modestly declining Green will be valuable for the raptors this year. the defenses they can throw at you will be serious, probably the best in the nba. assuming kawhi’s quad is feeling it, that is. i’m bullish on nick nurse and think he will go back to sticking green in the corner on offense where he belongs, and there he is capable of shooting 40% from 3 like he did several years in row (39.5% career and only takes assisted shots so it’s not really an aging curve thing).

    56. Hubert

      Its actually not surprising to me that the spurs are finally messing things up. If you’re a 50 plus win team for over 25 years (they were very good in the 90s before Duncan people forget)…it must be hard to realize that its all finally coming to an end and you have to do a rebuild.

      I think it’s the way they are messing things up that is so surprising. Betting big on the likes of LaMarcus Aldridge, Lonnie Walker, Rudy Gay, and DeMar DeRozan makes you wonder what they’re smoking over there.

    57. Stratomatic "Porzingis, Ntilikina, Knox & Robinson are going to lead us to the promised land

      Do you have any evidence for this, or is this all made-up?

      I’ve seen data on rest from Sloan, but longevity and peak age are sketchy because like all these debates it depends on whose model you are using.

      Rebounding and blocked shots (more athletic skills) tend to peak and decline earlier, but shooting efficiency and reduced TOs can keep improving even after your athletic peak as you get smarter and change your game. So depending on which factor the models weighs heaviest, the peak age changes.

    58. ess-dog

      I mean, healthy Kawhi is great, but busted, 1-year rental Kawhi…. that’s about a fair market price. Derozan is way better than any guard we have and Poetl is pretty good actually.

      Spurs didn’t want to rebuild with ultra young guys is my guess. If Murray improves, they have a team with 5 above average starters in a league that demands you to have a superstar (or 2).

      It will be fascinating to watch how they fare. I can’t imagine better than a 7 or 8 seed, but don’t underestimate Pop.

    59. The Glass Half Rebuilt

      The Raptors are gonna give teams hell with a small ball line-up of Lowry, Green, Leonard, Anunoby, and Ibaka. This is a big win for Toronto, and DeRozan is a good bet to see a bump in his efficiency by going to San Antonio. The best part about all of this for us is Toronto will stomp us for four games and so will Philly and Boston. The Atlantic Division is the best in basketball, and that should help us get ahead of Sacramento in the tank.

    60. djphan

      the top of next year’s draft seems… ok… altho the jump from hs to college will do a good job of filtering out the real prospects….

      so far in my estimates… rj barrett.. cam reddish and nasir little might be for real… but I have a lot of doubts about the rest of the draft.. esp the guys returning from college…. (with the exception of shamorie ponds)…

      i’m pretty sure it’ll wind up being weak overall….

    61. djphan

      I don’t necessarily think it was a bad move altho I probably would’ve asked for at least another player instead of the pick… like delon wright…

      they have lma and they probably can’t trade him… Popovich is probably not coaching for much longer…. so it’s a half decent trade with that sort of lens… poeltl is a very good player and he’s probably the best young guy the raptors had… he’s due to make a leap as soon as next year…

      I think it was about an even trade…. I wouldn’t kill the spurs over it much…

    62. The Glass Half Rebuilt

      I think Nasir Little is a pretender prospect. He’s a combo forward with a suspect handle and no outside jumper. He has the length, the motor, and the mentality to be an excellent defender, but if he can’t dribble or shoot he’s kind of lost on offense.

      Cam Reddish looks awesome but I worry if he’s too cool. He’s probably the most talented recruit but RJ Barrett fries him every time they play, I worry about his shot selection, and he seems unbothered on defense. If he puts it all together then he’s a more athletic Jayson Tatum with an even better handle, but I don’t think he has it in him to be a good defender.

      I like Sekou Doumbouya, Romeo Langford, and Zion Williamson a lot. I haven’t seen/read enough on Bol Bol, but he has the size and skill to go overall. And obviously my favorite player in the draft is RJ Barrett. He’s a hound defensively, a plus athlete with good size for the wing, and he can shoot and dribble. He won a gold medal at 17 in the FIBA U18 games (he dropped 38 on a heavily favored USMNT), his high school team was the national champion and didn’t lose a game all year, and he’s a member of the senior Canadian men’s basketball team.

    63. ClashFan

      Yeah, on the surface this looks like a good deal for Toronto. I’d like to know what, if anything, the Celtics offered. It could be that SA was just not getting any real good offers, with the question marks surrounding Kawhi.

      The trade certainly looks like a giant middle finger extended to KL and his agent.

      The Spurs are not going to win the west in the next 2-3 years, anyways, and they knew that. If I were a fan I’d just want them to try to tear it down and rebuild, but perhaps they are more concerned with continuing as a “good” team for the next few years, being entertaining and all for their fans, and assuring the $$ flow. DeRozan gives them that. Sure, he’s overpaid, but he is a “star” in the league. They get one very solid young guy back in Poetl, and maybe a later 1st rounder.

      Perhaps they think they can flip DeRozan in a year or two somewhere to some team hungry for a 2nd or 3rd “star” player.

      For example, Steve Mills still runs the Knicks…
      :-)

    64. mase

      I just figured out the spurs motivation, it’s simple they. It’s all about keeping pop happy and relevant so he doesn’t retire.

    65. Frank

      Spurs did ok here all things considered I guess.
      Derozan is mid-prime, still improving on offense (AST% of 25 for a 2-guard is pretty awesome), can get his own shot and can get to the line. His major weaknesses are 3 point shooting and defense, which happen to be skills that the Spurs are uniquely good at — improving shooting and getting bad defenders to play good defense. Rudy Gay somehow was a good defender last year. LMA was never thought of as a good defender, and Pau somehow is still useful defensively at age 63. If Derozan can play passable defense and shoot 34% from 3, he really becomes a pretty good player.

      Spurs get an extra 1st rounder, although I can’t believe Masai negotiated that into 2 second rounders if it doesn’t convey next year.

      Biggest issue with the Spurs the last couple years is their total lack of athleticism. This offseason they’ve dumped Parker, Green, and Kyle Anderson and replaced them with Derozan, Lonnie Walker, Poeltl. Derrick White will get more minutes and Dejounte Murray will have a much bigger role. They had the #4 defense last year without Kawhi, will be interesting to see how this works out with a whole different group.

      Poeltl looks like he has some potential.

    66. GoNyGoNyGo

      @66 – we just need someone to help the Nets get marginally better so that they beat us every time we play.

      As far as the trade is concerned, I’m sure there are plots within plots but the bottom line to me is that it sucked for both teams and both centerpiece players. It was a trade of one type of problem for another type of problem.

    67. DRed

      The Spurs definitely improved their team with that trade in the short term, but they have a ton of money tied up in Pau, Lamarcus, Mills and DeRozan now

    68. alsep73

      The person it may stink for the most after DeRozan (who didn’t want to leave Toronto, and unlike Kawhi can’t go elsewhere in a year) is Becky Hammon. Pop probably isn’t coaching that much longer, and they seem to be grooming her to succeed him and break the gender barrier. Following Pop will be tough no matter what, but following him with this mismatched set of toys seems likely to set her up for failure, and to set up the “women shouldn’t coach men” knuckleheads to have their toldja so moment.

    69. lavor postell

      I don’t get the concerns that the Knicks will suddenly overpay for Kawhi if/when Masai starts shopping him around. According to Woj the Knicks weren’t even one of the 9 teams who contacted the Spurs about trading for him in the last few weeks. Say what you want about their player eval and roster building, but Mills and Perry seem to be very focused on not giving up assets to go starfucking for the time being.

    70. alsep73

      I don’t get the concerns that the Knicks will suddenly overpay for Kawhi if/when Masai starts shopping him around.

      In addition to what Lavor said, there’s Dolan’s PTSD about getting pantsed by Masai twice in trades. Odds are this is one of the few situations where he would insert himself back into basketball decision-making, if only to tell Perry, “We don’t deal with that guy unless we’re unequivocally winning the trade.”

    71. ethsurken

      Anyone thinking this is anything but a home run for the Raptors is out of their mind. They’ve been stuck in East purgatory for years, LeBron leaves, and they replace (shitty) DeRozan with (potential top-5 NBA player) Kawhi?!? Come on. This is their chance. I think the 76ers will be kicking themselves for not making a better offer.

    72. alsep73

      Celtics GM Danny Ainge and Happy Walters, the agent for restricted free agent guard Marcus Smart, are now seriously engaged in contract talks, league sources tell ESPN. Potential deal range is in the four-year, $46M-$50M range, sources tell ESPN. Talks ongoing.

      There had been talk of the Kings throwing a big offer sheet at Smart with the cap space they tried to use on LaVine. If he’s unavailable, maybe it’s time for Perry to call about that Hardaway/Shumpert trade Tommy Beer has been pushing? It would require Mills to admit his mistake, but Sacramento is one of the few teams dumb enough, with enough cap space, to go for Timmy.

    73. mase

      More importantly we should be structuring a deal like this around Timmy for butler … let’s hear your trade best scenario

    74. Knick fan not in NJ at this time

      I’m not why everyone is so negative on the Spurs for this trade. It’s true that this probably helped Toronto, but the Spurs did OK too. They were already a playoff team last season (without Kawhi) and now they are also without Kawhi, but added Derozan instead of Parker, which is a big improvement. They could be very good next season and next. Thats probably what they want.

    75. thenoblefacehumper

      If you completely ignore the concept of the win curve, then sure you can argue that the Spurs got a decent deal. The problem is they are now capped out and pretty old…and for what? A 42-47 win team?

      I just don’t see how this approach makes sense for them. Even if they didn’t want to tank/rebuild, that would be fine! Then don’t let Anderson walk for nothing, and don’t make a Kawhi trade that somehow substantially worsens your cap outlook. Go with the guys you have plus whatever assets you can get for Kawhi and maintain the flexibility to add assets down the road.

      Their offseason, and honestly their approach for the last year or two, just seems to be full of contradictions and indecision.

    76. Aten

      I am sure there is some kind of WP truther take on this where Masai and not Pop is the one losing his touch. And I’m sure it’s gonna be found here.

    77. Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada

      I don’t think the Spurs are even going to make the playoffs–the WC got significantly better, they lost KA and Green (who’s declining but does a better Courtney Lee than Courtney Lee), replaced Kawhi with DDR, and their whole core is aging. It would take a huge leap from Dejounte, Poeltl, or Derrick White for them to even get the 8 seed in the WC.

      And for what? 3 years of cap puragtory and picking the year’s Lonnie Walker with the 14th pick every year? It’s gonna be an ugly next few years, and Pop is probably gonna retire once LMA’s contract is up.

    78. Zanzibar

      I think Ujiri is pivoting to a rebuild and this trade will take place on Dec 15th:

      Lakers………Kawhi, Lowry
      Raptors…….Ball, Ingram, Hart, Kuzma, 2 picks, Deng, Rondo

      Kawhi is livid at Raptors because it will cost him something like 50m I read if he walks to Lakers versus via trade. He’s not gonna be a happy camper. He wants to be in a big market.

    79. mase

      I don’t think Timmy for butler straight up works for them. We’d have to include youth and it picks like spurs did

    80. Brian Cronin

      There should be no need to include a first rounder in a trade for Butler. Remember Paul George was traded to OKC under similar circumstances a year ago for two relatively young players and no picks. I would say George was more valuable too. He was 27 where Butler is almost 29 and an Olympian and all that. If we are willing to Hardaway and something small besides, that should be enough.

      The Knicks don’t have anyone remotely comparable to Oladipo and Sabonis on their team right now. If they did, then sure, maybe they wouldn’t need to give up a pick, but then I’d probably be saying the same thing about it costing too much if they were giving up young players on par with Oladipo and Sabonis.

      Oladipo then >>>> Hardaway Jr. now

      And I wasn’t even some big fan of Oladipo before he blew up in Indiana.

    81. Cock Jowles, #1 Purveyor of Wanton Chuckery

      Okay, so Marcus Smart is about to get $46-50M over four years from Danny Ainge. Is this a win curve thing that I just don’t understand?

    82. Hubert

      2nd contracts for non-stars are just becoming a terrible decision for teams. Neither paying Smart $46/50mm nor losing him for nothing is a desirable outcome.

      This is coming down the road for us with Knox and Frank.

    83. Knick fan not in NJ at this time

      Oladipo then >>>> Hardaway Jr. now

      I don’t buy this at all. The trade was widely panned for Indiana at the time it was made because Oladipo was considered just a role player who wasn’t worth much. They may have thought he would get better than he was but it doesn’t change the fact that the best offer they got was what OKC considered two ordinary role players.

      And I would add that Paul George then was probably as good as or better than Jimmy Butler now and certainly younger.

    84. d-mar

      Celtics GM Danny Ainge and Happy Walters, the agent for restricted free agent guard Marcus Smart, are now seriously engaged in contract talks, league sources tell ESPN. Potential deal range is in the four-year, $46M-$50M range, sources tell ESPN. Talks ongoing.

      Didn’t Happy Walters play center for the Harlem Globetrotters?

    85. The Glass Half Rebuilt

      Why is everybody so sure Toronto can’t keep Kawhi Leonard? They can offer him more money than anybody else, they’re a team that can get to the Finals, and Toronto is one of the best cities in the world. This isn’t the Orlando Magic we’re talking about. Paul George was also born and raised in LA but chose to stay in possibly the worst city to host an NBA franchise because they offered him a lot of money and a chance to get bounced in the second round every year. Toronto is a global city and with him has a chance to get to the Finals this year and next at the very least. He’s also unquestionably the alpha dog in town and doesn’t have to share a team or city with LeBron James. I like Toronto’s chances to retain Kawhi Leonard more than most people.

    86. GianaDani

      Hubert @ 94 –

      We must first add the difference makers before we sign utility players. We desperately need to trade for one more All-Star and clear cap space to add another one this summer.

      Kanter’s expiring and our “young core players” like Mitch, Knox, Frank, Burke & Timmy must become cannon fodder.

      Once you have a core of KP + two All -Stars, then you look around the league for utility veteran players on the cheap. They often come to you…

      Waiting for our 18 and 19 yr old to become 10-year vets – so that they can possibly compete is fools gold and/or endowment effect.

    87. Zanzibar

      I just checked the trade machine and Raps could trade Kawhi and Lowry to Lakers on Sept 18th. Kawhi alone could be traded right away. Lakers would be ecstatic getting Lowry and Kawhi, Kawhi would end up where he wanted to be and on a better team than had Spurs traded him direct, and in one swoop Ujiri would have created the deepest young core in the league:
      VanVleet/Wright/Ball/Hart/Ingram/Anunoby/Kuzma/Siakam/Picks.
      They’d have a lot of cap space when Val/Ibaka/Deng/Miles are off books in couple of years.

    88. ethsurken

      Oladipo RPM 2014-2017:
      -0.56, -0.31, 2.59, 1.66

      Hardway RPM 2014-2018:
      -6.39, -3.81, -1.5, 0.82, 0.79

    89. Frank

      This is coming down the road for us with Knox and Frank.

      lol Knox hasn’t even reached his 19th birthday (or actually played in a single NBA game!) and we’re already worried about his second contract. This is peak Knickerblogger.

    90. GianaDani

      @99, exactly why Ujiri is a sexy genius. Sold a poor playoff performer, guy who is scared of LBJ and a ball stopper with a terrible contract for a champion and MVP candidate. WTF?

    91. Brian Cronin

      Oladipo RPM 2014-2017:
      -0.56, -0.31, 2.59, 1.66

      Hardway RPM 2014-2018:
      -6.39, -3.81, -1.5, 0.82, 0.79

      Yep. It’s not even close.

    92. Brian Cronin

      I think the trade was a fine gamble for the Raptors. What does their cap look like if Kawhi leaves? Can they sign anyone?

    93. Frank

      I think the trade was a fine gamble for the Raptors. What does their cap look like if Kawhi leaves? Can they sign anyone?

      I think their cap is still bad in 2019-20 but they only have Norman Powell under guaranteed contract after that. Complete reset possible. They could trade Valanciunas and Ibaka expirings for bad $ if necessary and replenish their draft pick stash, yet still have enough cap room for 2 maxes if they want. Masai is amazing.

    94. swiftandabundant

      Toronto could keep Kawhi so I see why they took the gamble. That team has been stuck for a few years now and with Lebron gone they have a window…maybe just this one year…to get to the Finals. Even getting trounced in the Finals by the Dubs…that franchise has never made it to the finals or won the ECF. So its a good gamble and worst case they free up cap space earlier. Their window is closing anyways.

      I think Kawhi would be likely to leave bc Toronto is probably not going to continue to be this good for too much longer. Lowry ain’t young. And yes, Toronto is a fantastic city but also NBA players in Canada are taxed a lot higher than in the USA even in a state like NY. And there’s a trend with the Raptors of players leaving to go back to the states when they can.

    95. Knick fan not in NJ at this time

      You managed to find a stat that makes Oladipo look better. But if you compare WS/48 or PER or many other stats for Oladipo two seasons ago to Hardaway last season, they are very comparable; and you could make the case Hardaway was hampered by injury, whereas Oladipo wasn’t.

      https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.fcgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1_hint=Victor+Oladipo&player_id1_select=Victor+Oladipo&player_id1=oladivi01&y1=2017&player_id2_hint=Tim+Hardaway&player_id2_select=Tim+Hardaway&y2=2018&player_id2=hardati02&idx=players

    96. d-mar

      If I was the Raptors I’d be shopping Kawhi starting today. I don’t think the Lakers are a viable trade partner, because they can just wait until 2019 and grab Leonard as a FA.

      But there’s little doubt Ujiri can find a taker for Kawhi and basically turn DeRozan and Poetl into a package of young players and picks, which would be a real coup. Might need a 3rd team to get involved though.

    97. Hubert

      lol Knox hasn’t even reached his 19th birthday (or actually played in a single NBA game!) and we’re already worried about his second contract. This is peak Knickerblogger.

      Fair. Just saying that the younger a player is when you draft him, the more uncertainty you will likely face when it’s time to make a critical decision. I should have used the more obvious and near term example: Porzingis (who we’ll likely have to pay far above what he’s earned and hope he grows into his salary).

    98. Zanzibar

      The reason the 2019 Toronto pick was protected 1-20 is that Ujiri probably intends to trade Kawhi soon for youth/picks. Remember also Ujiri was trying to move Lowry I believe last year. I’d be surprised if Kawhi didn’t go to Lakers since that’s the team that would most want Lowry and has got youth/picks.

    99. The Glass Half Rebuilt

      Kawhi Leonard will likely re-sign in Toronto after he, Kyle Lowry, and OG Anunoby lead Toronto to its first ever NBA Finals.

    100. Brian Cronin

      Masai is amazing

      What makes him particularly good is the lack of sentimentality. This move is a total Belichick move, right? It’s so hard to move a star player who actually wants to play for Toronto, but you have to be ruthless sometimes.

    101. d-mar

      Kawhi Leonard will likely re-sign in Toronto after he, Kyle Lowry, and OG Anunoby lead Toronto to its first ever NBA Finals.

      Kawhi Leonard is a really weird dude, I wouldn’t count on him re-signing no matter how far they get in the playoffs. And he sure as hell isn’t going to tip his hand, since the guy never speaks.

    102. swiftandabundant

      Kawhi has all ready been to two finals and won one also winning the finals mvp so he may not care about making it to the finals if he doesn’t want to be in that city long term.

    103. GianaDani

      Porzingis (who we’ll likely have to pay far above what he’s earned and hope he grows into his salary).

      @Hubert,

      Injury is what it is but KP is a stud who at 22 averaged 23 ppg; Made All-Star team in 3rd season; he defends rim, shoots 3s, finishes strong and is a tough competitor; and has all teh physical talent in teh world..its why KD dubbed him UNICORN; Just as important for me, he walks the streets of Manhattan grounded with humility and respect for this city that booed him the day his dream to get to the NBA became true; Those moronic fans on draft day almost ruined his dream come true moment; but he proved that he both understands and exemplifies that “New York GRIT” – KP is the prototypical franchise player. If you don’t believe me, than just ask Phil Jackson if he agrees.

    104. Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada

      @95

      Paul George has never been nor will ever be as good as prime Jimmy Butler. It’s not even close.

    105. Brian Cronin

      Yeah, I don’t think Toronto made this deal thinking Kawhi was definitely re-signing.

      It’s a one year gamble to win the East and if he leaves, then at least they don’t have the back end of DeRozan’s contract clogging their books.

    106. Knick fan not in NJ at this time

      Ok, here is the comparison between George (two seasons ago) and Butler (last season). Butler is slightly better, but he’s also two years older than George was when he was traded, so I think that’s a wash. Maybe you get a somewhat better player, but he’s going to go downhill two years sooner.

      And you guys saying Toronto should trade Kawhi right away, are you nuts? You get Kawhi on your team and you dont even try him out in training camp? Imagine the Knicks made a good deal for Kawhi — you’d say trade him right away for picks?

      https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.fcgi?request=1&sum=1&player_id1_hint=Paul+George&player_id1_select=Paul+George&player_id1=georgpa01&y1=2017&player_id2_hint=Jimmy+Butler&player_id2_select=Jimmy+Butler&y2=2018&player_id2=butleji01&idx=players

    107. d-mar

      And you guys saying Toronto should trade Kawhi right away, are you nuts? You get Kawhi on your team and you dont even try him out in training camp? Imagine the Knicks made a good deal for Kawhi — you’d say trade him right away for picks?

      He’s likely gone after this season, and who knows about his health? His value may never be higher than right now.

    108. Brian Cronin

      I think the guys wanting to deal Kawhi are saying so only if Kawhi makes it clear he won’t play for Toronto, either. There is a non-zero chance he just sits out the 2018-29 season. He’s a total nutjob. I wouldn’t put anything past him.

    109. domiknick

      It’s remarkable how quickly the narrative has shifted from Kawhi being this emotionless, only-focused-on-basketball robot to a Marbury-esque malcontent. It’s incredibly odd.

    110. Z-man

      Ok enough about Kawhi. Over-Under for MitchRob to win DPOY: 4.5 years. I’m taking the under.

    111. Hubert

      I don’t think enough is being said about the obvious motivation here. Masai is no fool. He sees the Mitch Rob era coming and wants to maximize his chance of winning before it really takes off.

    112. Brian Cronin

      Wait, we’re talking just in his first five seasons, right? If not, then the over.

    113. MSA

      Masai is not trading Kawhi. You may argue that he should, but he’s going all-in this season.

      If the intention is flipping Lenard for other players, Lowry would be the next soon because it makes no sense in keeping him with a bunch of rookies.

      If Kawhi leave after that, he can sell all his veterans and start a proper rebuild from the ground.

    114. rama, king of superfluous poppycock

      I’m sure I’ll be pilloried for saying so, but I think the trade was great for both teams.

      Spurs –

      First, making a good trade for a player with one year left who has clearly said he’ll only sign with a few teams is REALLY REALLY hard. We don’t know the offers on the table, but it is reasonable to assume that a team like the Lakers might say, this guy cares about where he plays over money. Thus he won’t care about Bird rights. Thus we don’t need to trade for him, we can sign him straight out in a year. So the Spurs were in a rough place.

      Second, most of you are remembering the DeRozen from 3-4 years ago – the overrated chucker. He may be overpaid, and not good in the playoffs, but he is pretty efficient at very high usage and has a great assist %. He is a good player who is reputed to work his ass off to improve. His defense is a weakness, but Pop got a team without Kawhi and with LMA to fourth overall in the league, so I’m confident he knows he can make DeRozen a competent defender.

      Third, DeRozen is a complementary player to LMA, who is a good outside shooter and can draw his defender away, opening up driving lanes for DeRozen. He adds an element of attack to a somewhat soporific offense. Again, I trust Pop to work him into a system that maximizes his strengths.

      Fourth, Poeltl is really good – an excellent defender with a 66% TS on modest usage. Again, a good complementary piece, likely to help the Spurs maintain a good defense while not damaging them on O.

      Fifth, Pau, Lamarcus, Mills and DeRozan is a win-now team who all will finish (or be finished as players) within the next few years. At that point Pop will probably retire and they can restart from scratch. Adding draft picks in the near term is secondary to adding good players for the next two years. Can they win a championship? No. They aren’t the Warriors. So why not be good while you have the LMA and other contracts on the books?

      Sixth, Pop.

      I predict the Spurs to…

    115. rama, king of superfluous poppycock

      I predict the Spurs to win 53 games next year.

      Raps –

      First, what do you do with a team that’s as good as it’s ever going to be, and that isn’t good enough to win it all? You make changes. They had to. The best thing they could do was to get out from under DeRozen’s contract. He is a good player, as I argue above, but clearing his salary is a good move that opens up possibilities for them EVEN IF KAWHI NEVER PLAYS FOR THEM.

      Second, if Kawhi DOES play for them, he’s, um, the fifth best player in the league? Fourth? Whatever, he’s up there, a complete player in every respect. He could be the piece that lifts them to the Finals.

      Third, if Kawhi is too hurt to play at a high level, his contract is over, he leaves, the Raps have still cleared that huge salary from their books.

      Fourth, as others have noted, you can still trade Kawhi, and maybe get good pieces back that the Spurs weren’t going to get or weren’t willing to accept, because the team was in its division or just to spite Kawhi or whatever. If he shows he still has it but doesn’t want to stay in Toronto, again, anything you get will move you forward from where you were stuck with DeRozen.

      I can’t predict wins for them, because who knows what Kawhi is going to do, but if he plays they should do at least as well as last year, and maybe Kawhi can lift them to the Finals…where they lose to the Warriors, like any other team will in the next two years.

      All in all, it seems like a win-win to me.

    116. Grocer

      Yeah, it’s not that bad for the Spurs. I’m also unclear on what the better deal was. They got someone who’s currently good, and a young guy who’s also good. Reportedly the Lakers wouldn’t trade Ingram and the Sixers wouldn’t trade Fultz. Yes, I’m assuming that nobody else offered a better deal or they would have taken that, but I’m also not clear on what a better deal would be. It gives them cap space issues down the line but the Spurs live with that constantly.

    117. Grocer

      Man, 52 pts on 22 shots is pretty great. Good to see The Liberty maintaining NY basketball traditions.

    118. Z-man

      MPJ had another back surgery last week.

      Man, that gives me the willies. Imagine if we had taken him instead of “sure thing” Knox?

    119. Brian Cronin

      While I agree, I don’t think Porter was ever seriously considered by any top ten team specifically because of how awful his medical reports were, ya know? Whenever you hear “degenerative” about a player’s back, it makes you gulp loudly.

    120. Cock Jowles, #1 Purveyor of Wanton Chuckery

      Apparently, his camp is saying this is a “breakthrough” on his herniated disk. I’m assuming that Denver’s access to high-end care is better than Mizzou’s, so I’m hopeful he has a decent career. I wouldn’t have picked him in the first round, but #31, absolutely.

    121. dtrickey

      The deal seems pretty meh to me. Going to be a lot of mid-range shots with DeMar and LMA in the same offence.

      Everyone seems pretty upset for DeMar. Can you imagine that kind outpour of sentiment for any Knicks player in the last 18 years ha ha

    122. dtrickey

      Apparently, his camp is saying this is a “breakthrough” on his herniated disk. I’m assuming that Denver’s access to high-end care is better than Mizzou’s, so I’m hopeful he has a decent career. I wouldn’t have picked him in the first round, but #31, absolutely.

      Plus if you are going to recover from back surgery, Colorado is probably the place to do it.

    123. Cock Jowles, #1 Purveyor of Wanton Chuckery

      I’m glad that I had the opportunity to recover from my basketball-related fractured leg and calf tear in Oregon. Tylenol was nice, but there are better, legal options out here.

      Like kratom and bath salts.

      Going to be a lot of mid-range shots with DeMar and LMA in the same offence.

      Kawhi took a ton of midrange shots, too, although he was, on the whole, more efficient.

    124. Z-man

      Now that we’re in that great basin of the NBA off-season, here’s a fun compilation of memorable dunks:

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u2PsSba257I

      I don’t know if most of you guys are old enough to remember how good Kevin Johnson was before he disintegrated, but there are a couple of monsters vs. historic rim protectors from him.

    125. The Glass Half Rebuilt

      The big victory here is that Masai Ujiri can’t take our lunch money in a DeRozan trade next summer. Could you imagine if we signed Kyrie and then traded the farm for DeRozan to pair the two on a capped out 45 win team? That was probably our fate.

    126. The Glass Half Rebuilt

      Also, nobody traded their best assets for Kawhi because they are all waiting like hounds to take Anthony Davis from the Pelicans. Teams are already lining up their best offers for Woj to break that story and Kawhi Leonard’s impending free agency/age/health hurt the Spurs chances. Still, they did great to get DeRozan, Poeltl (although I thought they’d covet Anunoby), and a 2019 1st round pick for a player they couldn’t retain.

    127. Stratomatic "Porzingis, Ntilikina, Knox & Robinson are going to lead us to the promised land

      What makes him particularly good is the lack of sentimentality. This move is a total Belichick move, right? It’s so hard to move a star player who actually wants to play for Toronto, but you have to be ruthless sometimes.

      I agree that sometimes you have to make hard decisions, but you can’t overdo it. That will only work until every player and agent in the NBA hates your guts over how you’ve treated one of their clients or friends and no one wants to play or do deals with you anymore. That’s part of why Hinkie is still out of the game.

      I think all sides realize it’s a business, but I’m already reading about player backlash because Toronto did not thank DDR for all he’s done for the franchise appropriately. You can’t treat these guys like a line on a spreadsheet. You have to try to accomplish your own goal but also keep players and agents happy. That’s no easy task.

    128. Jack Bauer

      From Sporting News:

      And, league sources told Sporting News, Leonard has no interest in playing for the Raptors. There have been indications that he would sit out the entire season if necessary, and though that step would be drastic and unprecedented in today’s game, Toronto has forced the situation into uncharted territory by acquiring a player who has made it clear he does not want to be there.

      So there’s that….

    129. Brian Cronin

      Oh man, Kawhi is such a nutjob. I sort of love it, honestly. Well, so long as he isn’t a Knick, that is. ;)

    130. swiftandabundant

      Honestly if Kawhi is willing to sit out the entire season after missing/sitting out last season…I’m not so sure I would really want that kind of player on our team. What player would miss 2 years in the prime of their career simply to try and get on a team they want to play for?

    131. Brian Cronin

      although I thought they’d covet Anunoby

      I’m sure they did, but I think Toronto covets him more, ya know?

    132. dtrickey

      Oh man, Kawhi is such a nutjob. I sort of love it, honestly. Well, so long as he isn’t a Knick, that is. ;)

      I can’t think of another player that has had such a drastic change of public perception. I mean there have been crazies in the NBA for ever and a day, but I can’t think of any closet cases like Kawhi seems to be developing in to. It’s fascinating stuff and not just because we are grasping for stories as we head into the lull before training camp.

    133. JK47

      DeRozan’s main strength as a player is drawing fouls, and that is not a skill that ages well.

    134. MKinLA

      By signing with OKC, Paul George really undermined the credibility of all players seeking to dictate their trade destinations.

    135. Zanzibar

      Sitting out might be the best action for Kawhi. If he refuses to even meet Ujiri, it would probably force a trade to a designated team(s) with which he would agree to re-sign like Lakers, 76ers, Clippers, or maybe Knicks. By virtue of the trade, Kawhi would make about 50m more (according to what I’ve read) than if he played for the Raptors this season and then signed with one of those teams as a free agent.

      Of course, Ujiri might not trade him if he sits out and he would lose his 23m salary this season and then have to sign as a free agent next summer. That would be a net loss of 23m to Kawhi versus playing for Raps this season and then signing somewhere else as free agent. I think Ujiri would have to trade him or he would have just dealt a fan favorite DDR and Poetl for nothing. That would be a PR nightmare and that’s why my money is on Lowry/Kawhi to Lakers.

    136. Z-man

      I can’t think of another player that has had such a drastic change of public perception. I mean there have been crazies in the NBA for ever and a day, but I can’t think of any closet cases like Kawhi seems to be developing in to. It’s fascinating stuff and not just because we are grasping for stories as we head into the lull before training camp.

      Well, LeBron post The Decision and Durant with the fake Twitter account definitely took PR hits. Then there was Kobe’s rape trial, Lew Alcindor becoming Kareem, Magic announcing that he was HIV positive, Agent Zero’s gun, Jayson Williams murder, Kermit Washington’s punch, Isiah’s Bird comment. I mean, Kawhi has been really freakin’ weird, but he’s also been legitimately injured and somewhat maligned by his team and coach. And he hasn’t uttered a word, his handlers are the ones doing the talking. I think once he starts playing again all will be pretty quickly forgotten.

    137. dtrickey

      Well, LeBron post The Decision and Durant with the fake Twitter account definitely took PR hits. Then there was Kobe’s rape trial, Lew Alcindor becoming Kareem, Magic announcing that he was HIV positive, Agent Zero’s gun, Jayson Williams murder, Kermit Washington’s punch, Isiah’s Bird comment. I mean, Kawhi has been really freakin’ weird, but he’s also been legitimately injured and somewhat maligned by his team and coach. And he hasn’t uttered a word, his handlers are the ones doing the talking. I think once he starts playing again all will be pretty quickly forgotten.

      Good examples and some I had forgotten about too! I hope it does blow over for Kawhi as well.

    138. Stratomatic "Porzingis, Ntilikina, Knox & Robinson are going to lead us to the promised land

      I think the rules may need to be tweaked a little. I don’t think it’s healthy for the league that players are demanding trades in the final year of their contract by saying they won’t sign back and then also trying to force themselves to where they want to go so the team that holds them can’t even get a fair deal back. The team is under contract for the full length of the contract if the player is a mental case, hurt, stinks, claims he’s too hurt to play even if medically cleared etc.. but the player is effectively under contract for one year less than that if he’s not happy with the team because he can force his way out.

      I can’t think of a good solution but maybe if “you” forced the trade you should lose your ability to get that longer contract.

    139. Z-man

      I think the rules may need to be tweaked a little. I don’t think it’s healthy for the league that players are demanding trades in the final year of their contract by saying they won’t sign back and then also trying to force themselves to where they want to go so the team that holds them can’t even get a fair deal back. The team is under contract for the full length of the contract if the player is a mental case, hurt, stinks, claims he’s too hurt to play even if medically cleared etc.. but the player is effectively under contract for one year less than that if he’s not happy with the team because he can force his way out.

      I can’t think of a good solution but maybe if “you” forced the trade you should lose your ability to get that longer contract.

      Sorry, Strat, but I completely disagree. When a typical contract is signed, there is no obligation on the player’s part to either stay with a team or leave it on the team’s terms. The Spurs could simply call Kawhi’s bluff and keep him until his contract runs out, or trade him while he has value, or cut him. Remember, the player is giving up tens of millions by not staying put.

      OTOH, I think no trade clauses and trade kickers are bad for the league.

    140. Jack Bauer

      There is an obligation under the contract for the player to actually show up and play basketball. The team shouldn’t have to pay the final year of the contract if the player doesn’t play because he’s not on his favorite team.

    141. Bruno Almeida

      The only leverage Kawhi has is if he has corrective surgery for something and can actually prove it is somewhat necessary if contested, which it would obviously be. He can’t just not show up. Obviously for a NBA player it isn’t the hardest thing to do to have a nagging injury somewhere that could be made better through surgery, but it brings the risk of recovering from it and dealing with the backlash of Los Angeles feeling less confident about his overall health.

      There have been reports by Woj that Kawhi was warming up to the idea of playing in Toronto, and frankly he would be very stupid to not be. Lowry, Anunoby, Leonard, Ibaka or Siakam and Valanciunas should be a very, very good team if Kawhi is healthy and they still have great depth on the bench, this team could realistically beat the Celtics or the Sixers if things go right.

    142. dtrickey

      Has anyone heard what the alleged offer from LAL was? Surely they could have put together a relatively good offer considering what they accepted. All I have read was that the Lakers offers were unacceptable and gradually got worse with every round of negotiations,

    143. TheOakmanCometh

      Toronto has great fans and could make a finals run if he’s healthy. It’s totally possible that he could like it there and decide to re-up.

    144. Bruno Almeida

      @158

      I remember reading that the Lakers refused to include Ingram and the Spurs really wanted him, but not sure about the full offer.

    145. dtrickey

      Toronto has great fans and could make a finals run if he’s healthy. It’s totally possible that he could like it there and decide to re-up.

      If George is willing to spurn his hometown of LA for OKC, then I guess anything is possible.

    146. domiknick

      Don’t forget Sprewell choking his coach.

      Imagine if right now we were talking about how Kawhi choked out Gregg Popovich in practice.

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