Statistical Analysis. Humor. Knicks.

Thursday, August 16, 2018

Knicks Morning News (2018.07.16)

  • [NYTimes] Len Chappell, 77, College All-American and N.B.A. All-Star, Dies
    (Sunday, July 15, 2018 8:46:21 PM)

    Chappell led Wake Forest to the Final Four in 1962 and was the top scorer for the Knicks in 1963-64, averaging more than 17 points per game.

  • [NYPost] The Mario Hezonja scouting report: The flashes and the flaw
    (Sunday, July 15, 2018 4:30:21 PM)

    Magic radio analyst Richie Adubato has a Croatian neighbor who gave him a language tip. After every Mario Hezonja 3-pointer, Adubato bellowed, “Gee La Vee, Mario!” on the air. That’s a Croatian expression for “Bravo.’’ The phrase wasn’t uttered nearly enough during Hezonja’s failed three-year run in Orlando. On July 1, the 6-foot-8 forward joined…

  • [NYDN] Many questions, few answers after hardworking immigrant dies in encounter with NYPD officers
    (Monday, July 16, 2018 3:00:00 AM)

    After more than 15 years in the U.S., Edwin Garcia found himself at a crossroads.

    Should he stay in New York in order to continue sending money to his wife and three kids back in El Salvador — or return home to finally be with them?

    The 41-year-old East Harlem man worked from morning to night,…

  • [NYDN] Why 20 years wasn’t enough time for NYC to upgrade this Staten Island storm sewer
    (Monday, July 16, 2018 3:00:00 AM)

    You’ve probably never seen a sewer backup quite like this.

    The planned fix for a flood-prone Staten Island strip has dragged on more than two decades, now, and the much-needed project still isn’t even remotely close to completion.

    The proposal to install a storm sewer under a stretch of Willow…

  • [NYDN] Correcting monumental injustices: Slowly but surely, our public spaces are getting the statues that women deserve
    (Monday, July 16, 2018 2:00:00 AM)

    It’s a monumental mistake that’s taken centuries to fix. But with the same #MeToo outrage that’s made assaults on women’s bodies intolerable, a growing movement is now demanding that more women’s bodies be put on display — in our parks and squares and assembly halls.

    I’m talking, of course, about…

  • [NYDN] Cuomo tips balance against restaurants: The governor’s push to end the tipped wage would harm servers and owners alike
    (Monday, July 16, 2018 2:00:00 AM)

    Count on Gov. Cuomo to create a problem where there is none. Here’s a governor, after all, who once made New York sheriffs and police officers criminals for fully loading their sidearms.

    Now Cuomo is going after the New York restaurant industry and its hundreds of thousands of food servers. It’s…

  • [NYDN] The un-American President: Trump’s new(ish) argument against immigration
    (Monday, July 16, 2018 1:10:00 AM)

    If the mask was ever on, it’s off now. President Trump is not simply crusading against illegal immigration. Nor is he basing the opposition to what he ridiculously calls “open borders” on the specious notion that undocumented immigrants are likelier to commit violent crimes, or that they drive…

  • [NYDN] Be fair, chancellor: Success Academy kids deserve better than they’re getting from Richard Carranza
    (Monday, July 16, 2018 1:05:00 AM)

    Happily setting a different tone from his predecessor, newish Schools Chancellor Richard Carranza says “charter schools are public schools” and pledges to treat the independently run, publicly funded institutions fairly.

    Words are nice, but he’s failing his first big pragmatic test.

    A middle school…

  • [NYDN] LOVETT: GOP candidates for governor and attorney general each raise $1 million for their races
    (Monday, July 16, 2018 1:00:00 AM)

    As Democratic candidates for governor and state attorney general square off in bruising primaries, Republicans have flown mostly under the radar while raising campaign cash in hopes of being competitive in the fall.

    Marcus Molinaro, the Duchess County executive running for governor, and GOP attorney…

  • [NYDN] Ready for takeoff: Two governors owe airport workers an on-time raise
    (Monday, July 16, 2018 1:00:00 AM)

    Govs. Andrew Cuomo and Phil Murphy, joint masters of the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey, really do want higher wages for 40,000 cleaners, guards and bag handlers at JFK, LaGuardia and Newark airports. But the airlines objected at the last minute, forcing the Port to add another public…

  • [NYDN] EXCLUSIVE: Feds fighting to keep accused Trinitarios gang member involved in Bronx River Parkway beatdown behind bars
    (Monday, July 16, 2018 1:00:00 AM)

    Federal prosecutors are fighting to make sure a Trinitarios gang member stays locked up while awaiting trial on charges related to a broad-daylight beatdown linked to the murder of Bronx teen Lesandro (Junior) Guzman-Feliz.

    Ramon Paulino, 21, is accused of bashing a 14-year-old boy with a log…

  • [NYDN] EXCLUSIVE: Harlem subway derailment cost MTA $3.4M in new train cars, track work: report
    (Monday, July 16, 2018 1:00:00 AM)

    A subway rail improperly attached to the roadbed led to 39 straphangers getting hurt, two subway cars wrecked — and the MTA on the hook for $3.4 million.

    That’s the conclusion of an MTA probe into the June 27, 2017, derailment of an A train in Harlem.

    Most of the expense of the crash — $3.1 million…

  • [NYDN] NYS Senate Dems close fundraising gap with Republicans
    (Monday, July 16, 2018 12:55:00 AM)

    The following is an expanded version of the second item from my “Albany Insider” column from Monday’s print editions:

    ALBANY — With control of the state Senate up for grabs, Democratic senators have greatly reduced their usual fund-raising gap with Republicans.

    The state Democratic Senate Campaign…

  • [NYDN] Cuomo unleashing new ads targeting GOP state senators on abortion bill
    (Monday, July 16, 2018 12:50:00 AM)

    Expanding a campaign he began last week, Gov. Cuomo is set to take direct aim at eight state Senate Republicans for not taking up a bill that would strengthen the state’s abortion rights laws.

    Cuomo plans a new round of digital ads starting Monday that will target the eight mostly vulnerable senators…

  • [NYDN] Potential 2020 challengers take aim at Trump’s Putin summit
    (Monday, July 16, 2018 12:50:00 AM)

    President Trump’s meeting with Russia’s Vladimir Putin is mired in the continued story of the 2016 election, though those with one eye to 2020 have another on the Helsinki summit.

    With rumblings about who is running starting to get louder ahead of the midterm elections, potential challengers among…

  • [NYDN] Readers sound off on Roe v. Wade, running diets and dogs
    (Monday, July 16, 2018 12:00:00 AM)

    Right to choose – a life of regret

    Rego Park: So Gov. Cuomo and New York State’s legislative Democrats want to codify the Roe v. Wade provisions that the state passed two years before the Supreme Court ruling in 1973 (“Roe, Roe, Roe your vote,” July 9).

    In 1972 I had an abortion in New York City,…

  • [NYDN] Two dead in accidents, dozens detained by police in France in World Cup celebration chaos
    (Sunday, July 15, 2018 11:30:00 PM)

    At least two people died and dozens were arrested after France’s win in the World Cup final sparked revelling and chaos across the country.

    A man in his 50s in the city of Annecy died after he jumped into a canal without enough water in it and in the Oise region a man in his 30s died when he ran…

  • [NYDN] Minnesota candidate posts revenge porn on campaign blog after wife’s restraining order
    (Sunday, July 15, 2018 10:10:00 PM)

    An “unhinged” Minnesota city council candidate is under investigation for posting a topless photo of his wife to his official campaign website in response to an order of protection she filed against him.

    In a July 14 blog entry on the now-deleted page, David Martinez of St. Paul included the picture…

  • [NYDN] Former beau busted in fatal shooting of his ex-girlfriend’s fiancé in Bronx apartment lobby
    (Sunday, July 15, 2018 10:00:00 PM)

    A jilted lover who shot his ex-girlfriend’s fiancé to death in the Bronx, then walked off with his victim’s dog was cuffed a day after the slaying, police said Sunday night.

    Cops on Sunday apprehended Jose Quinones, 49, who was wanted for killing Juan Flores in the lobby of his building on Webb…

  • [NYDN] EXCLUSIVE: As immigration slows at the border, some still brave danger despite Trump’s zero tolerance stance
    (Sunday, July 15, 2018 9:00:00 PM)

    LAS LOMITAS, Texas — Border Patrol supervisor Rene Quintanilla followed a trail of kids’ clothing and empty water bottles down a makeshift trail to the edge of the Rio Grande, then squinted into the morning sun as he took a long look around.

    “Some people were just here. Look at that child’s underwear…

  • [NYDN] What to expect from the Trump-Putin meeting in Helsinki
    (Sunday, July 15, 2018 8:35:00 PM)

    President Trump said he isn’t going into his meeting with Russian leader Vladimir Putin with “high expectations.” Trump said he “hadn’t thought” to ask Putin to extradite the indicted Russians accused of meddling in the 2016 presidential election.

    So, what exactly will the leader of the free world…

  • [NYDN] Canadian department chain that owns Saks Fifth Avenue, Lord & Taylor yanks Ivanka Trump’s clothing line from stores
    (Sunday, July 15, 2018 8:30:00 PM)

    Ivanka Trump’s name has quietly disappeared from Canada’s largest department store chain.

    Hudson’s Bay has pulled the First Daughter’s brand from its website and is poised to remove all of her items from their brick-and-mortar stores.

    But the 90-store retailer, which also owns Saks Fifth Avenue…

  • [NYDN] Chad Green implodes in eighth inning as Yankees finish first half in disappointing fashion with 5-2 loss to Indians
    (Sunday, July 15, 2018 7:55:00 PM)

    CLEVELAND – The Yankees ended a solid first half on a bad note.

    Chad Green allowed a go-ahead homer to Michael Brantley leading off the eighth inning, and the Bombers lost to the Indians 5-2 on Sunday at Progressive Field.

    Green has allowed a homer in each of his last two appearances after posting…

  • [NYDN] Mazzeo: Despite stellar first half, Yankees still have plenty of work to do to catch Red Sox
    (Sunday, July 15, 2018 7:55:00 PM)

    CLEVELAND – After clobbering the Red Sox on July 1, no one expected the Yankees to be 4.5 games back of their hated rivals in the AL East division standings.

    But that’s where they are right now, headed into the All-Star break on the heels of a 5-2 loss to the Indians on Sunday at Progressive Field.

  • [NYDN] Drunken driver kills Queens woman, injures six passengers in head-on Long Island wreck, cops say
    (Sunday, July 15, 2018 7:50:00 PM)

    A drunken driver plowed his pickup truck into a Queens woman’s minivan on a Long Island road, killing the driver and injuring his six passengers Sunday morning, police said.

    Glenn Zaleski, 36, was driving east on Route 48 in Greenport when he slammed into a minivan going in the opposite direction…

  • [NYDN] Royal family poses for adorable group shots for Prince Louis’ christening
    (Sunday, July 15, 2018 7:30:00 PM)

    The royal children keep getting cuter with age.

    Kensington Palace released new royal family photos Sunday, this time from 2-month-old Prince Louis’ christening last week.

    While newlyweds Prince Harry and Meghan Markle continued a seemingly nonstop post-wedding photo op, 3-year-old Charlotte and…

  • [NYDN] Andres Gimenez, Mets’ top prospect, continues to improve as he prepares for inevitable promotion
    (Sunday, July 15, 2018 6:00:00 PM)

    WASHINGTON — Andres Gimenez had goals coming into this season. The Mets’ top prospect wanted to try and make the most of his speed. He looked to hit more line drives into the gap and run hard to get the extra base. He wanted to try and become more of a threat on the base paths.

    And, he wanted to…

  • 108 comments on “Knicks Morning News (2018.07.16)

    1. Frank

      Yeah that Mitchell Robinson contract is insanely good. Literally zero downside for the Knicks. Honestly there’s not much downside for Robinson either. He gets ~3.2MM in guaranteed dollars the next two seasons. Even if he doesn’t play well and the Knicks for whatever reason don’t pick up his 3rd or 4th year team options, someone will take a chance on him. Doing a 1 year minimum deal is a pretty bad option if you’re a kid who hasn’t made any $ yet — you’re restricted anyway, so unless you really expect to blow everyone away (as a 20 year old rookie who hasn’t played in over a year) to the point where someone is going to Arenas-contract you, the more likely scenario is that you’re scrapping for a two-way or vet’s minimum next summer. Grab that $ and go into FA as a 24 year old — that’s the right move. $3.2MM is more than most people can expect to make in a lifetime.

      Have to say – Perry’s contracts have not been super exciting but have been shockingly competent. Pretty much everyone he has signed to more/longer than a vet’s minimum has had a team option or nonguaranteed year attached (except Hezonja, hard to know whether that was on the table or not). These are all moves on the margin (ie. he hasn’t yet had to go into a negotiation with dollars to burn/waste/mismanage like he might next summer) but might have significant payoff later especially with Robinson.

    2. Frank

      Next summer is super-scary. So much FA$ available, could easily get into bidding wars for guys that are not worth it. IMHO if we strike out (or find unavailable) on KD, Kawhi (if healthy), Kyrie (if healthy), and I guess Jimmy Butler, I would just as soon carry the FA dollars over or take on bad 2019-20 $ to pick up assets then try again the next year. That’s why waiving Noah before we have to would be a bad idea – if we might strike out anyway next summer, no reason to have him sitting on our cap for an additional 2 seasons.

      I like Jimmy Butler although he will be 30 by the time the 2019-20 season starts. Crazy that he’s only played 15K minutes, which is ~50% of Durant’s minutes load, about the same as Kyrie, and ~33% (!) of Lebron’s.

    3. Z-man

      Repost from last thread:

      JJJ did not shoot particularly well after game 1. Statistically speaking, he was significantly outplayed by Mitch, who had more rebounds and blocks, and scored more points on a much higher percentage. It’s only summer league, but I’m not convinced that JJJ will be the better player. He shoots the 3 but his interior game is not great.

    4. Z-man

      Re: Jimmy Butler, I like him but giving him a max deal would be almost as dumb as giving one to Amare. I don’t place a lot of stock in how many minutes he’s played; He came into the league late and sat the bench most of his rookie year, Then Thibs played him over 40MPG except in blowouts for much of the good CHI years, and he plays with reckless abandon on both ends. He’s missed 76 games in the last 5 seasons. Hard pass.

    5. ess-dog

      I never said JJJ was a better player than MitchRob nor did I even compare them! I simply said he looks good and actually, the comparison would be to KP. However, I think JJJ projects as a better shooter and he seems to have a more complete defensive game. His defensive awareness actually looks better than what I’ve seen from a lot of pro bigs. MitchRob does seems more athletic and a potentially better rebounder/finisher in the Capela mold, though.

    6. The Glass Half Rebuilt

      I’m against giving Jimmy Butler the 4 year max because I think it’s a big mistake for any team in our position on the win curve to offer a 30 year old a max deal. If we were the Boston Celtics or Toronto that would make a lot more sense, but right now we should be avoiding him and using all of our resources and cap space for Anthony Davis’ 2020 free agency. If the Timberwolves want to trade us Jimmy Butler for Tim Hardaway Jr and negligible parts be my guest, but otherwise I would not touch him. Kyrie Irving on the other hand is a player I take the risk on because his contract would run from 27-31, acquiring him would hurt a division rival (plus Kyrie Irving is my favorite player in the NBA so I’m partial), and I think a roster with Irving, Ntilikina, Knox, Porzingis, and Robinson would be the perfect ball of synergy and defense.

      Mitchell Robinson needs to be playing a lot for us over the life of his contract. He’s as good a bet as any 2nd round pick to give us surplus value on that contract and if we’re hunting max salaries we need as many cheap productive guys as possible. Of course the problem is the TH2, Lee, and Noah contracts polluting our books, but if we work really hard we can trade Lee and Hardaway Jr at the deadline.

    7. Stratomatic "Porzingis, Ntilikina, Knox & Robinson are going to lead us to the promised land

      Assuming we could free cap space for 2 contracts and Kyrie and Butler come as a package deal only (both or neither) do you add both or pass on both?

      KP, Knox, Butler, Frank, Kyrie, Robinson, and our pick next year.

      Suppose it cost you a future first rounder to move Hardaway?

    8. The Glass Half Rebuilt

      If it cost us a 2020 1st round pick but guaranteed us Kyrie Irving and Jimmy Butler to go along with Mitchell Robinson, Kevin Knox, Kristaps Porzingis, the 2019 1st round pick, and Frank Ntilikina I would do it. That’s a team that could compete with Philly and Boston.

      I think it’s imperative that we do our best to add two stars in 2019. I would prefer we do it by grabbing RJ Barrett with the #1 overall pick and then signing Kyrie Irving, but we could also put together a really good looking package for Anthony Davis on draft night, and that’s a deal that comes around every 10 years. You wanna talk about an embarrassment of riches? Imagine we draft RJ Barrett with the #1 pick, sign another #1 pick in Kyrie Irving in free agency, trade Knox, Robinson, Hardaway Jr, and the 2020 1st rounder for former #1 overall pick Anthony Davis, and then round out that starting line up with #8 overall Frank Ntilikina and #4 overall Kristaps Porzingis. A man can dream, right?

    9. The Glass Half Rebuilt

      And I should add that it’s imperative because we’re at a period in time where KP is headed into his second contract with 3 years of lottery picks behind him and a gift in Mitchell Robinson. We should have the ability to add a market value star, develop/trade our cheap assets for a star, draft a member of the Duke Big 3/Romeo Langford, or do all of that stuff. The iron appears to be heating up so we should be preparing to strike. Part of being in a city like New York is you can fuck up for twenty years in a row and still be 2 seasons away from title contention.

    10. 2FOR18, understands math

      I wouldn’t be averse to maxing Kyrie for 4 years next offseason. He’d be a nice fit with Frank, KP and, hopefully, Mitch to cover for him on defense. Plus we’d still have the high pick next summer, which adds to the maneuverability of the following summer where we’d have a lot of assets to make a serious bid for a true superstar like AD. It’s a plan that leaves us just 2 years from being a top 4 seed.

    11. 2FOR18, understands math

      @11, yeah, but it’s been like this for awhile. Just weird for a sports site, and with the political leanings of most of the posters and moderators on here, it has my my tin foil hat tingling.

    12. Donnie Walsh

      I’m against giving Jimmy Butler the 4 year max because I think it’s a big mistake… Kyrie Irving on the other hand is a player I take the risk on.

      Jimmy Butler has actually missed less games to injury and is a much better basketball player, but okay.

    13. DRed

      We probably shouldn’t sign either Jimmy or Kyrie, much less both of them. You’d think after years of doing the same ‘let’s half-assedly rebuild until free agent X hits the market’ we’d learn

    14. thenoblefacehumper

      The only conceivable way to open two max slots by my math is to renounce every FA except Porzingis, stretch Noah, trade Lee for expirings, and trade THJ for expirings.

      I simply don’t see it happening unless we attach an amount of sweetener that would make most of us unhappy. I guess if you think that team is legitimately good enough to compete for a title you might be okay with us dumping Lee and THJ with two first rounders or whatever. I’d say we’d have to see a lot that we have yet to see from all of KP, Frank, and Knox for that to be even possible.

      Sure does make you wish we just didn’t sign those pointless contracts.

    15. chrisk06811

      ESPN has one of those 5*5 roundtables up about summer league. Under “who was the best rookie you saw”, Jorge Sedano wrote KEVIN KNOX, stating how Calipari compares him to Tatum, and how the Knicks found a gem.

      Which made me wonder……which one of you guys is Jorge Sedano?

    16. danvt

      Drafting is about potential. Knicks thought that Mikal Bridges had reached his ceiling and that Knox had another gear. Maybe Bridges turns out to be the better player but I can understand the decision. FA is about actual. Knicks thought Hardaway would make a leap and become a better player than he had been. That turned out to be a swing and a miss. He’s not going to grow into his salary slot.

      Knicks did a good job this summer of keeping me interested. I’m excited to see the three rookies they’ve added. I’m excited to see whether Dotson, Ntilikina, and Burke continue to grow. I don’t mind Hezonja because it’s low risk. We need to keep stockpiling assets.

      Unfortunately we’re still stuck with players who’s up and downsides are well documented and that’s going to be a drag on our growth and boring to watch.

      So, let’s not just buy the first shiny toy that’s available once we get some money back from poor choices of the past…No FA’s until AD 2020…and not even that unless he shows he can play 75+ games the next two years.

    17. Bruno Almeida

      I think if you go for Kyrie or a Butler you have to be thinking of adding both. They are both injury risks and Butler is aging but it makes no sense to add just one star that is not named Lebron James or Kevin Durant as one of those two alone won’t open up a path to contention.

      Kyrie specially entices me as he’s still pretty young and just had a fantastic season, but the injuries are scary enough to put me off. I think Butler has been a top 10-15 player in the last seasons and he’s the type of two way player I love, but if he declines hard towards the end of the contract it will be very ugly.

      I’d say we have to wait and just see how Porzingis comes back and how Knox, Ntilikina and Robinson all develop. If we get a top 5 pick this year plus Porzingis is healthy and playing well plus some of the young guys show real signs of production, it isn’t stupid to think about adding superstars. It’s just a question of whether they are the right superstars, and in my mind if they’re healthy they are, which is the most uncertain thing.

      As long as we don’t give up future firsts we should be in a better situation already than the Melo Amare core, since that team couldn’t add more talent after the Melo trade crippled our assets.

    18. Cock Jowles, #1 Purveyor of Wanton Chuckery

      The best part about the Kyrie/Jimmy plan is that they’ll get extra time before their $35M AAV max deals to develop, synergize and reach their upside ceiling. If you think they’re good now, imagine how much BBIQ they’ll have in a few years. You really can’t beat a pair of 30-something guards when it comes to craftiness, grit, mental fortitude and playoff pedigree. Hell, I’d be fine with waiting until they turn 35 so they know as much as possible about the game. With developments in conditioning and recovery, they could very well peak at 40!

    19. The Glass Half Rebuilt

      The real star in the show is Anthony Davis who is likely to start demanding a trade as early as next year’s draft. If you have Kyrie Irving and KP in the house, you could trade for and keep AD especially if you can pull off a trade without surrendering the 2019 pick and Frank.

    20. Frank

      you know what’s crazy?

      Steve Mills was POBO+GM for all of 15 days (June 28-July 13, 2017) yet still managed to sign the dumbest contract in NBA history per $ spent (Baker) AND destroy our chance at 2 max contracts in 2019 by signing Hardaway. All in 2 weeks!! You’d think he’d just get comfortable in his chair first!

      You seriously wonder how bad it would be right now if Perry was not on board.

    21. ClashFan

      I’m waiting to see what happens this season before jumping to a desire to sign a big name FA in 2019.

      The Knicks should beware of guys on the wrong side of 30 in their next contract, including Kyrie Irving, whose knees might be a few years older than his chronological age.

      I’m also eager to see Fiz in action. Is the guy as good a coach as he is a talker? Will he really fix Mudiay, etc.? The guy lays it on thick, but let’s hope he’s selling something more than snake oil.

    22. Frank

      The real star in the show is Anthony Davis who is likely to start demanding a trade as early as next year’s draft. If you have Kyrie Irving and KP in the house, you could trade for and keep AD especially if you can pull off a trade without surrendering the 2019 pick and Frank.

      This is the way to go — try for KD/Kawhi (if healthy) first, and Kyrie if not the 1st two.
      Keep powder dry otherwise until 2020 when AD has a player option and can be UFA.
      Salary cap will be estimated at $120MM that year so we will definitely have room for another max.

      Frank, Kyrie, Knox, KP starting with AD joining the team. I wonder how AD will respond to having to come off the bench behind Mitchell Robinson, amirite?!

    23. The Glass Half Rebuilt

      Personally I’m offering NOLA Knox,
      Hardaway Jr, and the 2020 1st round pick as soon as Kyrie signs his contract. If we draft RJ Barrett, we could afford to lose those assets and walk into the 2019-2020 season with a starting five of Irving, Ntilikina, Barrett, Davis, and Porzingis. I can only imagine how terrifying a defense that would be with Ntilikina and Barrett on the wings and Davis/Porzingis in the paint with Mitchell Robinson as a super sub.

    24. Stratomatic "Porzingis, Ntilikina, Knox & Robinson are going to lead us to the promised land

      Steve Mills was POBO+GM for all of 15 days (June 28-July 13, 2017) yet still managed to sign the dumbest contract in NBA history per $ spent (Baker) AND destroy our chance at 2 max contracts in 2019 by signing Hardaway. All in 2 weeks!! You’d think he’d just get comfortable in his chair first!

      You seriously wonder how bad it would be right now if Perry was not on board.

      +1

    25. Bruno Almeida

      I mean, Irving is 26, he’s one year older than Antony Davis. It’s not a pair of 30 something guards, it’s Butler at age 30 and Kyrie at 27. I’m only pointing out that I wouldn’t be angry if they brought those two as free agents keeping all other assets, and that it’s not like they’re bad players like Melo or Amare when he couldn’t play anymore. Obviously I’d rather have Giannis and AD, but that’s about as unreal as getting Lebron in 2010 was. I’m all for a true rebuild and full tank as you all know for a long time, but since that’s also pretty unrealistic I’d be ok with actually signing good players for once.

    26. Stratomatic "Porzingis, Ntilikina, Knox & Robinson are going to lead us to the promised land

      I think “timetable” should be a factor in the thinking, but I think it can be overrated.

      If some player is 28 he may not fit long term with guys like Frank, Knox , and Robinson. He barely fits with a guy like Porzingis. However, if you are comfortable he’s got 4 really good years left, what’s the problem with giving him a 4 year contract? In 4 years you can let him walk and replace him.

      The idea is to get better without giving out bad contracts. It’s the bad contracts that can’t be moved. If a player has 4 good years left, I have no issue giving him a fair 4 year contract. It’s the “fair” part and mortgaging the future by giving away picks and young players for older players that gets teams into trouble.

    27. alsep73

      Troy getting waived makes zero sense…

      Troy’s deal was either party or fully non-guaranteed. Financially, he was the most painless cut, even though he seems like a much more useful player than Kornet or Hicks (who’s on a two-way deal and thus wouldn’t help the team get down to the 15 player maximum).

      UPDATE: Begley:

      Troy Williams’ salary wasn’t fully guaranteed. A portion ($100,000) would have been guaranteed on Aug. 1. Another portion ($100,000) would have been guaranteed if Williams made the Opening Night roster. The majority would have been guaranteed in early January.

    28. Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada

      You clearly let go of Kornet, Ron Baker, or Mudiay before Troy.

    29. ess-dog

      Yeah, that was surprising. He was one of the better players last year, albeit in a short window of time. I can only assume that Perry is stuck with the Mills signings because a Baker cut makes the most sense, statistically. And I like Kornet, but cmon, how useful will he really be?

    30. swiftandabundant

      Perry did say recently that while they’re looking to next summer to possibly sign a big name FA, that the situation was fluid for them and they would only do it if it made sense for the team. That they want to get through the season and develop the kids and see how KP is doing before they make some big signing. So while I think its most likely they will try to add a big name next year, I don’t think they are just going to sign anyone just because. At least, I hope he’s serious when he says that bc I also agree that the goal should be Anthony Davis or Giannis.

    31. thenoblefacehumper

      I will never understand the front office’s bizarre amount of loyalty to something called Isaiah Hicks

    32. alsep73

      Hicks is on a two-way contract, wouldn’t help them solve the roster squeeze issue. Kornet sucks but plays center, and until KP is healthy, is one of the few big men we have on the roster. I’d have just considered Ron a sunk cost and cut him over Williams — really, I’d have cut Mudiay over any of them, but Perry and Fiz have yet to be convinced he’s not fixable, so…

      It’s a pretty marginal move in the grand scheme of things, but the thought process ain’t great. Question is whether this means they’re not dead-set on stretching Noah come 9/1, or if it means they want to add another player in addition to stretching Noah.

    33. Knick fan not in NJ at this time

      If they were going to waive him, it’s better for him they did it now. This way he has a chance to catch on with another team.

    34. Frank

      yeah the way Troy Williams was throwing himself around on the court in summer league you definitely got the feeling he was playing for his roster spot / career in the NBA.
      Best of luck to him –

    35. Ben R

      My order of roster cuts before I’d cut Williams: (Hicks and Trier don’t count)
      Mudiay
      Noah – Stretch on 9/1
      Thomas
      Kanter
      Kornet
      Dotson
      Baker – pretty even with Williams but Williams fills more of a need.

      Terrible move by the Knicks. Williams is a consistent three-point shot away from being a rotation player on a quality team.

    36. The Glass Half Rebuilt

      Definitely a poor decision to cut him with Ron Baker still in a Knicks’ jersey.

    37. Bruno Almeida

      Yeah, this is stupid. Why are we keeping Kornet on a guaranteed contact when he provides nothing we need for the Center position? Why keep Mudiay and Baker instead of Troy when they should never get minutes next season? Just to save 100k?

    38. 2FOR18, understands math

      Talk about Fake News. Knox wasn’t even the best Knick in Summer League. How can anyone say he was better than Robinson, or WCJr or SGA for that matter? Now I know to continue ignoring ESPN.

    39. Brian Cronin

      I guess now we know why they didn’t just pick up Troy Williams on waivers. They must have never been to into him in the first place. It’s too bad.

    40. ClashFan

      Troy sill plays out of control at times, but you’d like to see such talent given a bit more time.

      Still, the front office may not want to cut a Mudiay or Baker b/c that would be admitting to a mistake. In the case of Mudiay of giving a 2nd round pick in addition to McBuckets for him, and in the case of Baker of giving him the two year guaranteed $9m or so deal.

      Fiz already said he’s going to fix Mudiay… Baker is more of Mills not wanting to confirm a foolish deal.

    41. Stratomatic "Porzingis, Ntilikina, Knox & Robinson are going to lead us to the promised land

      Maybe he can go back to Houston

    42. Cock Jowles, #1 Purveyor of Wanton Chuckery

      Why was Jordan Bell playing in Summer League after playing about 13 MPG in the Finals?

    43. Brian Cronin

      I think late first guys see it as a sort of a sign of how far they’ve come. Jimmy Butler also played in the Summer League after his rookie season.

    44. Brian Cronin

      Maybe he can go back to Houston

      That probably would make a lot of sense for both parties.

    45. ess-dog

      So I’m guessing Troy won’t start now… It looks like they really want Knox to start at the 3. Kanter HAS to start, at least at first, and I can’t imagine Timmy won’t start. Hezonja will probably start at the 4. That leaves point guard.

      Burke is the only non-disaster on offense, but I bet they will push for Mudiay to start if he can be even remotely playable. A Kanter/Hez/Knox/Timmy/Mudiay lineup would be excellent for the Tank!

    46. chrisk06811

      So Troy is a year younger than Dotson, and makes the same $$. this just doesn’t make sense.

    47. The Glass Half Rebuilt

      Interesting tweet from DraftExpress:

      Top 5 prospects in the 2018 #nbadraft class in PER @nbasummerleague (min. 3 GP / 20+ MPG)

      1. Mitchell Robinson (35.0) @nyknicks
      2. Wendell Carter (26.8) @chicagobulls
      3. Svi Mykhailiuk (26.6) @Lakers
      4. Shai Gilgeous-Alexander (25.7) @LAClippers
      5. Jaren Jackson (23.2) @memgrizz

      I know PER is a shitty stat, but he was 8.2 points higher than the next closest person. If you haven’t jumped on the Mitchell Robinson Express then you’re probably a Nets fan.

    48. Donnie Walsh

      Steve Mills was POBO+GM for all of 15 days (June 28-July 13, 2017) yet still managed to sign the dumbest contract in NBA history per $ spent (Baker) AND destroy our chance at 2 max contracts in 2019 by signing Hardaway. All in 2 weeks!!

      Makes the Ed Tapscott era look pretty good.

    49. Ben R

      Baker is overpaid but he is easily better than Mudiay or Dotson.

      Baker is a legit plus defender. Offensively he moves the ball enough to not be a huge liability. It’s the reason he has one of the best +/- on the team.

      Baker isn’t great but he’s better than Mudiay, Kornet, Dotson, Thomas, Williams or Hicks.

    50. Cock Jowles, #1 Purveyor of Wanton Chuckery

      Can we get an off-topic thread to discuss Ntilikilla? Today’s big news (not the Trump summit — that was expected) warrants discussion, but I don’t want to derail the first healthy, realistic optimism that we’ve had in years.

    51. alsep73

      Berman pointed out that Fiz cut Williams in Memphis, too, and took it as a sign of his organizational influence here, since our scouts like Williams.

    52. nicos

      I wrote a couple of days ago that I wouldn’t be surprised if Williams got waived. He was Anthony Randolph 2.0 in the summer league- productive overall but made a bunch of really bone-headed plays that probably drove the coaches crazy. Still, like everybody else here, there are multiple guys I’d have waived before Troy. He was already useful as an energy guy off of the bench and while that’s probably all he’ll ever be, the Knicks have several players who’ll probably never even reach that level.

      And he was fun to watch.

    53. TheOakmanCometh

      Our stock of forwards, not including Porzingis, was: Hezonja, Knox, Lance, Kornet, Hicks, and Troy. Depending how Knox starts the year, it’s not inconceivable that Troy could have been our most effective forward on opening day. He’s also young and cheap and could have have been used as a trade sweetener. Waiving him does not make a lot of sense.

      I would certainly have waived Baker or Kanter ahead of him.

    54. thenoblefacehumper

      I mean what use could a talent-strapped organization have for a 23 year old at the minimum salary who looked pretty good in NBA games last season

    55. GoNyGoNyGo

      Releasing Troy Williams, IMO, was inconsequential from a hoops perspective. I can say the same about Ron Baker, Lance Thomas, Joaqim Noah, Isaiah Hicks or Allonzo Trier. I can’t envision any of them ever making an impact on the team.

      My biggest (perhaps only) concern right now is resigning KP to a contract. He will be a restricted FA after next season. We can’t lose our cornerstone. The dilemma is that he’s hurt. We think he’s fine, but we have to bank on his health for the extent of that contract. I’m glad we can match his salary, but if we have to pay through the nose for him, we must. The free agency year is not going to be 19/20 but rather 20/21 when most the salaries come off our books.

    56. Grocer

      Is Dotson’s money guaranteed? Waiving Troy means not eating salary for a guy who’s not play. I’d cut Dotson first but I don’t much care. Are we still a roster spot over the limit?

    57. ethsurken

      Releasing Troy Williams, IMO, was inconsequential from a hoops perspective. I can say the same about Ron Baker, Lance Thomas, Joaqim Noah, Isaiah Hicks or Allonzo Trier.

      Except we’re trying to clear cap space, and Lance/Noah/Lee/Hardaway are taking up 50+ mil in 2019-20. If we have to, it will likely take assets to get rid of them. And every spot wasted on players like Baker and Hicks is a spot that could be used on a legitimate NBA player/prospect.

    58. SJK

      Lance/Noah/Lee/Hardaway are taking up 50+ mil in 2019-20

      Small note but I think Lance’s contract is only guaranteed at 1 mil next year.

    59. Z-man

      So as of now:
      PG: Burke, Mudiay, Ntilikina, Baker
      SG: TH2, Lee, Dotson, Ntilikina, Baker (Trier)
      SF: Hezonja, Knox, TH2, Dotson, Lance, Ntilikina
      PF: Knox, Hezonja, Lance, [KP] (Hicks)
      C: Kanter, Mitchell, Kornet, Noah

      Maybe Robinson and Kanter can play spot minutes together, or Kornet at PF
      Maybe Mudiay plays some 2
      Is that pretty much it?

    60. Brian Cronin

      I think they seem to be leaning the other way at the forward spots (Knox at the 3, Hezonja at the 4), but I guess it’s effectively meaningless, right? They’re their two forwards.

    61. alsep73

      Yeah, it matters only to the degree of whom they have each of them defending, but that’s then mooted by which defender opposing teams put on each of them.

    62. Cock Jowles, #1 Purveyor of Wanton Chuckery

      Mudiay needs to either lead the tank or be cut. Giving him development minutes for anything other than trade value (lol) is foolish.

    63. english_knick

      I expect frank to start at the 1. Fiz seems to be getting a lot of freedom and has no connection to that trade, and if we’re serious about developing the talent we have, that’s the right play.

      Frank, TH, Knox, Hez, Kanter is who I expect to start. I hope Robinson gets good back up minutes and makes a case to supplant kanter by mid season.

    64. Stratomatic "Porzingis, Ntilikina, Knox & Robinson are going to lead us to the promised land

      Dotson had a disappointing summer league (he was good the last game), but I’d still keep him over Troy. Dotson still has a shot to become a solid 2 way player off the bench. There are other players I would cut over Troy, but that gets into a kind of game where who made the deal for him, who drafted him, who wanted him, and financial considerations sometimes separate players that are similar. The wasted roster spots are Hicks and Kornett. I see little chance of either becoming a decent NBA player.

    65. Stratomatic "Porzingis, Ntilikina, Knox & Robinson are going to lead us to the promised land

      I expect frank to start at the 1. Fiz seems to be getting a lot of freedom and has no connection to that trade, and if we’re serious about developing the talent we have, that’s the right play.

      Frank, TH, Knox, Hez, Kanter is who I expect to start. I hope Robinson gets good back up minutes and makes a case to supplant kanter by mid season.

      Kanter, Knox, Hezonja, and TH are likely to be so bad on defense, I think even the thought of putting Burke or Mudiay at PG is too laughable to take seriously. Frank may get the job just for knowing what defense is.

    66. dtrickey

      The Williams move seems odd, but on it’s face he seemed like one of the easier (financially speaking) cuts to make. I don’t think he tipped the needle either way for us, but given his brief cameo before he got injured last season and some of his SL performances, all the commentary I was reading seemed to suggest he was a lock.

      Based solely on performance, Dotson seems like the more obvious cut given the similarities in salary.

    67. The Glass Half Rebuilt

      Trey Burke is the guy who will be starting. He outperformed every guard on this roster and he should continue to do so in training camp.

    68. Stratomatic "Porzingis, Ntilikina, Knox & Robinson are going to lead us to the promised land

      Trey Burke is the guy who will be starting. He outperformed every guard on this roster and he should continue to do so in training camp.

      The Knicks might have the worst defensive efficiency in the last 5 years if the starting lineup is Burke, TH, Knox, Hezonja, and Kanter. If they aren’t the worst defense in the league then Fisdale is some kind defensive genius guru. That’s only half hyperbole. I can’t imagine a worse defense in the league. Even if some team started all 1st and 2nd year players they’d probably have a couple of decent defenders in there by accident.

    69. kevin5318

      We also severely lack playmaking and Frank is probably far away in that department. Trey needs to start to ensure a somewhat functioning offense.

    70. TheOakmanCometh

      If Fizdale is trying to win or wants to start the players who “deserve” it most, he’ll start:

      Kanter
      Lance
      THJ
      Lee
      Burke

      If he wants to put out a lineup that’s in our best long-term interest, it’ll be:

      Robinson
      Knox
      THJ
      Lee (showcase for trade)
      Frank

    71. ptmilo

      “showcasing” Courtney Lee reminds of the guy who wanted to sell his showcase but everyone just looked right through it

    72. Stratomatic "Porzingis, Ntilikina, Knox & Robinson are going to lead us to the promised land

      We also severely lack playmaking and Frank is probably far away in that department. Trey needs to start to ensure a somewhat functioning offense.

      Frank’s problem is not play making. He can improve there, but his major problem is efficient scoring on decent usage. When you are starting 4 other guys that can score, you can get away with a little more in that area. Maybe Fisdale will opt for Burke, but that’s going to be a laughable defense unless he’s some sort of brilliant defensive mind.

    73. ethsurken

      So where’s the Troy Brown Jr. hype at? He’s 18 and averaged 18.4/6.8/2.0 on 43% shooting in 30.8 MPG (and he’s smart, a good playmaker for others). Obviously not as impressive as 20+ PPG on 35% shooting, but still.

    74. kevin5318

      Fiz has said he won’t start Tim or Lee at SF. So it’s gonna be Knox/Kanter and Hez/Lance or maybe Mitch.

    75. The Glass Half Rebuilt

      Kanter
      Knox
      Hezonja
      Hardaway Jr
      Burke

      That’s a league worst defense and a below average offense, but I can’t see the Knicks doing anything different unless Mitchell Robinson outplays Kanter. This is why we’re going to get RJ Barrett next summer; our team is terrible.

    76. kevin5318

      Maybe Fisdale will opt for Burke, but that’s going to be a laughable defense unless he’s some sort of brilliant defensive mind.

      Not really anything we can do about that with our roster even if Frank starts.

    77. djphan

      brown gets some love here.. and one of my favorite prospects in this year’s draft… there’s gonna be a fair amount of good players from this draft if this summer league was any indication….

    78. geo

      Kanter
      Knox
      Hezonja
      Hardaway Jr
      Burke

      That’s a league worst defense and a below average offense, but I can’t see the Knicks doing anything different unless Mitchell Robinson outplays Kanter. This is why we’re going to get RJ Barrett next summer; our team is terrible.

      this would be my guess also…yeah, wow, we’re gonna give up about 109 points a night (not too much different from last year actually)…tankalicious…

    79. ess-dog

      What would be our best “defensive” lineup anyway? Frank/Baker/Dotson/Lance/Robinson?
      Oof.

    80. dtrickey

      What would be our best “defensive” lineup anyway? Frank/Baker/Dotson/Lance/Robinson?
      Oof.

      That lineup could maximise Robinson’s offensive production given all the put backs he could get from all the likely bricked shots that lineup would generate ha ha

    81. The Glass Half Rebuilt

      Can we kill the idea that Lance Thomas is a good defender? He’s just a low IQ hustle guy that gets in your way occasionally but he’s not actually good at defense. Still, he’s better than a lot of what we have, but he’s normally a large order of wasted minutes night in and night out.

      I’d say our best defensive line up would be Frank, Lee, Hezonja, Knox, and Robinson because of switchability, speed, and playmaking on that end.

    82. Brian Cronin

      I’ve been saying that for…how ever many years Lance Thomas has been here. It especially shocked me when I saw Zach Lowe call him a good defender somewhere. Lance is a perfect nothing. There is actually something to be said for perfect nothings, as they don’t hurt you if you have four other good players out there (while other players actively hurt you), but that’s what he is – a nothing player.

      He happened to play with guys who were worth less than nothing on defense, though, so he looked good by comparison.

    83. ptmilo

      in 1987 Jordan had more blocks and steals at the all star break than Lance has in his career

    84. Ntilakilla

      Can we get an off-topic thread to discuss Ntilikilla? Today’s big news (not the Trump summit — that was expected) warrants discussion, but I don’t want to derail the first healthy, realistic optimism that we’ve had in years.

      I’d be down with a separate politics thread here. Especially in light of what has been the most militaristic media cycle this country has seen since the 2002-2003 run up to the Iraqi invasion. I would also like to keep the thread on the Mueller investigation open so I can see the rationalization for when he takes no one to trial for hacking the DNC server and presents no actual evidence to support the claims in his indictments.

    85. Donnie Walsh

      I would also like to keep the thread on the Mueller investigation open so I can see the rationalization for when he takes no one to trial for hacking the DNC server and presents no actual evidence to support the claims in his indictments.

      Please, please, please NO.

    86. Stratomatic "Porzingis, Ntilikina, Knox & Robinson are going to lead us to the promised land

      I’m still trying to figure out why anyone (Russian or otherwise) hacking or downloading info from the DNC server and using a phishing scam to get to Podesta’s emails is considered such a big deal.

      It’s well known the US and every one of it’s allies spies on, hacks, and bugs each other. So of course rivals do also. The US government and intelligence community doesn’t just try to influence elections, it overthrows governments and assassinates leaders. The whole thing is laughable. It’s like suddenly the entire mainstream media is 13 years old and finding out for the first time that the world is a bad place and sometimes countries spy, steal information, and try to influence the politics elsewhere. These guys are either utter idiots or so bought and paid for it’s hard for me to imagine they ever get a good night’s sleep. We have a security issue, but the rest of it mostly nonsense.

      To me, the only relevant fact in any of this is whether a US citizen HELPED a foreign power gain access to that information. In other words, was the DNC and Podesta information hacked by foreign sources who then handed it over to wikileaks (that’s a security issue on our side) or did an insider become a whistleblower and give that information to wikileaks (that can be treason depending on the information). But once it was in wikileaks hands, as a news organization they were free to publish it and as a consumer I was anxious to read it because I want to know how corrupt the political parties are and how corrupt my government is.

      I’d say the evidence suggests our media, intelligence community, and government is so wildly corrupt and incompetent it’s even blowing my mind and I’m the biggest cynic here.

    87. 2FOR18, understands math

      Good post strat. The other funny thing is that until November 11, 2016, the FBI and cia (WMD anybody? Bueller?) were considered corrupt and untrustworthy by leftists, but all of a sudden now we’re supposed to believe everything they say. How dare anyone question the integrity of cops, spies, and prosecutors!
      It’s laughable and sad what has happened to so called liberals

    88. Unreason

      @100
      Would you say that the integrity of the US is unimportant and not worthy of protection?
      Would you say that the fact that the US hypocritically undermined and overthrew governments while championing democracy and self-determination during the cold war means that the US deserves be undermined and overthrown?
      Do you think the US doesn’t need and should not have intelligence agencies?
      Are journalists who want to protect US institutions and elections from being co-opted by hostile foreign powers being naive?
      Would you say that people who want the US to exhibit greater integrity in supporting liberal democratic ideals should ignore hostile autocratic governments attempts to undermine US influence and western democracies in general?
      I would answer No to all those questions.

    89. Ntilakilla

      He presented a very very large amount of evidence which is all publically available:

      This was a link to the Butina indictment, it has nothing to do with the “hacking” of the DNC server. Butina is being charged as an unregistered foreign lobbyist (there are many from various nations working both sides of the corrupt political aisle) supposedly in conspiracy with Putin. So, again, here is the problem with a lot of what is being said about this entire investigation. People are throwing whatever sticks to the wall to make a case that has nothing to do with the original claim of cyberwarfare – which on a sloppy CrowdStrike analysis made without any oversight because the DNC refused to let the FBI review its server and computer data.

    90. Ntilakilla

      @104

      I’ve also addressed this “indictment” here the day it was made public after reading through it. The only new evidence presented in the entire document was a heavily edited correspondence between an “organization” (Wikileaks) and Guccifer 2.0 where the latter claimed they had new material for public dissemination with no presentation that Wikileaks knew they were receiving hacked information from the Russians.

      The rest are a lot of very detailed claims whose evidence won’t probably ever be presented in a court of law. Mueller knows he’s indicting 12 foreign nationals the Department of Justice government won’t ever extradite or subpoena back to the United States. This proven modus operandi, illustrated when Washington-based lawyers representing one three Russian companies he indicted for using troll farms for inciting strife called his bluff and proceeded to request his disclosure of evidence, was revealed for the farce it really was when his office immediately tried to stall the case from moving forward to arraignment.

    91. Unreason

      @105
      I suggest respectfully that the idea that idea that the detailed claims are unsubstantiated is not credible and doesn’t reflect an appreciation for the scrutiny that these documents receive and the requirement for full disclosure of sources and methods prior to release.

    92. Ntilakilla

      I suggest respectfully that the idea that idea that the detailed claims are unsubstantiated is not credible and doesn’t reflect an appreciation for the scrutiny that these documents receive and the requirement for full disclosure of sources and methods prior to release.

      All legitimate points. But this doesn’t rectify the ultimate problem: that it is very unlikely the 12 Russian nationals named in the indictment will ever see trial for the obvious fact that no one seriously expects them to be extradited to the United States. So then when will we ever get to see Mueller’s proof for making such detailed claims? And in the case that they do seek to legally represent themselves as not guilty we’ve also seen that Mueller’s office is hesitant to disclose information to their lawyers even when it is legally necessary to do so as in the case of Concord Management and Consulting when they called his bluff and sought to move towards an arraignment. After they reviewing the actual facts of Mueller’s actual case their lawyers found allegations which didn’t even have a federal election law or regulation attached to it. Considering this, among other factors, one has to be skeptical about Mueller’s case until he shuts up and puts up his evidence either in a court of law or at least in a court of public opinion.

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