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Friday, November 16, 2018

Knicks Morning News (2018.06.20)

  • [NYPost] Draft’s next ‘Jayson Tatum’ thinks he aced Knicks workout
    (Tuesday, June 19, 2018 12:15:34 PM)

    CAMDEN, N.J. — During his workout 10 days ago, Kentucky freshman forward Kevin Knox believes he showed the Knicks staff plenty of reasons to draft him ninth Thursday night. He isn’t the only one. Wildcats coach John Calipari said teams will regret passing on Knox, and compared him to one of this season’s Rookie of…

  • [NYPost] Trae Young sees the Knicks upside of a draft slip
    (Tuesday, June 19, 2018 8:08:52 AM)

    Point guard Trae Young said falling to nine in Thursday’s draft can still be “a great situation” because he would wind up a Knick and playing for new coach David Fizdale. Appearing on WFAN to promote a new endorsement deal, the Oklahoma freshman guard often compared to Stephen Curry said his workout with the Knicks…

  • [NYPost] Nate Robinson: Larry Brown bullied me to tears
    (Tuesday, June 19, 2018 7:48:39 AM)

    Most Knicks have positive memories of Nate Robinson, the diminutive point guard who spent five seasons with the team until departing for the Celtics. But it seems Robinson doesn’t view his time with the team through the same rose-colored lenses, as he opened up to Bleacher Report about the abuse he suffered at the hands…

  • [NYPost] Enes Kanter has an ironic LeBron plan
    (Tuesday, June 19, 2018 7:08:52 AM)

    Enes Kanter is pleading for a reason to take a pay cut. The center knows it’s a pipe dream, but it’s a pipe dream he’s exploring in attempting to lure LeBron James to the Knicks. “I’m trying,” Kanter told The Athletic in a story published Sunday. “I don’t want to say it’s possible, whatever, but…

  • [NY Newsday] Draft’s next ‘Jayson Tatum’ thinks he aced Knicks workout
    (Tuesday, June 19, 2018 12:15:34 PM)

    CAMDEN, N.J. — During his workout 10 days ago, Kentucky freshman forward Kevin Knox believes he showed the Knicks staff plenty of reasons to draft him ninth Thursday night. He isn’t the only one. Wildcats coach John Calipari said teams will regret passing on Knox, and compared him to one of this season’s Rookie of…

  • [NY Newsday] Trae Young sees the Knicks upside of a draft slip
    (Tuesday, June 19, 2018 8:08:52 AM)

    Point guard Trae Young said falling to nine in Thursday’s draft can still be “a great situation” because he would wind up a Knick and playing for new coach David Fizdale. Appearing on WFAN to promote a new endorsement deal, the Oklahoma freshman guard often compared to Stephen Curry said his workout with the Knicks…

  • [NY Newsday] Nate Robinson: Larry Brown bullied me to tears
    (Tuesday, June 19, 2018 7:48:39 AM)

    Most Knicks have positive memories of Nate Robinson, the diminutive point guard who spent five seasons with the team until departing for the Celtics. But it seems Robinson doesn’t view his time with the team through the same rose-colored lenses, as he opened up to Bleacher Report about the abuse he suffered at the hands…

  • [NY Newsday] Enes Kanter has an ironic LeBron plan
    (Tuesday, June 19, 2018 7:08:52 AM)

    Enes Kanter is pleading for a reason to take a pay cut. The center knows it’s a pipe dream, but it’s a pipe dream he’s exploring in attempting to lure LeBron James to the Knicks. “I’m trying,” Kanter told The Athletic in a story published Sunday. “I don’t want to say it’s possible, whatever, but…

  • [ESPN] NBA draft trades we’d like to see: Knicks land Kyrie Irving, No. 27 pick
    (Tuesday, June 19, 2018 2:23:46 PM)

    Plenty of picks throughout the lottery could be in play for draft-night trades. So which moves should teams make?

  • [NYDN] Friends, family remember trailblazing cop and martial arts instructor Albert Dandridge
    (Wednesday, June 20, 2018 3:00:00 PM)

    Friends, family and dozens of officers poured into a Bronx church to pay tribute Tuesday to a pioneering retired cop who served as one of the first black commanders in the NYPD.

    Albert Dandridge, who passed away on June 10 at 96, was celebrated as a trailblazing detective and a consummate father.

  • [NYDN] Long Island dad who got lifesaving liver transplant after 8-year wait hopes to enroll more donors
    (Wednesday, June 20, 2018 7:00:00 AM)

    When Ronnie Reid’s phone rang last October with lifesaving news for her father she almost didn’t pick up.

    The organ transplant coordinator at LiveOnNY, a Midtown-based nonprofit, hates telemarketers and her first instinct was to let it ring.

    When she saw it was from a colleague from work, calling…

  • [NYDN] Montreal is ending its horse-carriage industry; why won’t New York?
    (Wednesday, June 20, 2018 2:00:00 AM)

    After 150 years of controversy, and one failed attempt at a ban in 2016, it appears the city of Montreal is finally putting an end to their horse-drawn carriage industry. Montreal Mayor Valérie Plante included a promise to ban calèches — as they are known locally — in her 2017 campaign, and is…

  • [NYDN] Farmworkers, forgotten again: Time’s Up says New York is failing thousands of women
    (Wednesday, June 20, 2018 2:00:00 AM)

    Fifty years ago, Robert Kennedy stood with farmworkers?to?call?for?basic rights?that virtually all other?workers?enjoy — a day of rest, overtime pay, workers’ compensation, sanitary housing and the right to demand safe work conditions without the risk?of being fired.?

    On?the night of Kennedy’s…

  • [NYDN] American senators to visit Russia at end of month: report
    (Wednesday, June 20, 2018 1:55:00 AM)

    A group of American senators will travel to Russia at the end of the month and celebrate Independence Day in Moscow, according to a report.

    The delegation will arrive in St. Petersburg on June 30 and spend time there before heading to the country’s capital on July 3 and 4th for meetings with lawmakers,…

  • [NYDN] Parents brawl during youth softball tournament in Tennessee
    (Wednesday, June 20, 2018 1:05:00 AM)

    Disturbing video from a youth softball tournament this weekend shows parents of children from competing teams trading punches and hurling profanity at a Tennessee park.

    According to The Kingsport Times-News, the melee broke out as two North Carolina teams faced off during a 12-and-under tournament…

  • [NYDN] Another year lost: One last day for Albany to actually do the people’s business
    (Wednesday, June 20, 2018 1:05:00 AM)

    When the legislative session ends Wednesday, state senators and assembly members will bring home scraps to their constituents. Which won’t stop them from winning near-certain reelection.

    With a day left, Senate Majority Leader John Flanagan and Speaker Carl Heastie must agree to let the city keep…

  • [NYDN] Taliban kills 30 soldiers after holiday ceasefire ends
    (Wednesday, June 20, 2018 12:30:00 AM)

    The Taliban has killed 30 Afghan soldiers as hopes of peace from a three-day holiday ceasefire were shattered.

    Soldiers at checkpoints in the province of Baghdis were killed in an ambush from the terrorist group on Wednesday, according to the regional governor.

    The Taliban had agreed a three-day…

  • [NYDN] Readers sound off school tests, parental separation and Old Timers’ Day
    (Wednesday, June 20, 2018 12:00:00 AM)

    Keep the test, teach the kids

    Jamaica: In a misguided attempt to increase the number of black and Hispanic students at the elite New York City specialized high schools, Mayor de Blasio proposes eliminating the controversial entrance exam. By doing so, he’s tacitly suggesting that black and Hispanic…

  • [NYDN] SEE IT: Congressional intern screams ‘Mr. President, f–k you!’ as Trump enters Capitol
    (Tuesday, June 19, 2018 11:35:00 PM)

    President Trump wasn’t exactly greeted with open arms as he arrived at the Capitol for a meeting with Republican lawmakers Tuesday night.

    One female heckler didn’t hold anything back.

    “Mr. President, f—k you,” yelled a woman, a congressional intern, according to The Washington Times.

    The clip was…

  • [NYDN] Man with a tattoo of a gun on his face charged with illegally possessing a firearm
    (Tuesday, June 19, 2018 11:00:00 PM)

    So much for concealing your weapon.

    Michael Vines, who sports a tattoo of a handgun on his forehead, has been charged by South Carolina police with illegally possessing a firearm.

    Vines, who is federally prohibited from possessing a firearm, allegedly tried to ditch a loaded .38-caliber revolver…

  • [NYDN] Jason Vargas implodes again as Mets have three-game winning streak snapped in loss to Rockies
    (Tuesday, June 19, 2018 10:10:00 PM)

    DENVER — Pitching Jason Vargas at Coors Field was a gamble and the Mets lost.

    The veteran lefty gave up back-to-back-to-back home runs and was chased in the third inning of the Mets’ 10-8 loss to the Rockies on Tuesday night.

    The loss snapped a three-game winning streak for the Mets (31-39), who…

  • [NYDN] LAPD fires rubber bullets into Los Angeles memorial for slain rapper XXXTentacion after crowd allegedly threw rocks and bottles at officers
    (Tuesday, June 19, 2018 10:05:00 PM)

    Hundreds of XXXTentacion fans converged in the Fairfax area of Los Angeles late Tuesday in a makeshift memorial for the rapper, who was shot and killed Monday, but the gathering quickly grew ugly.

    About 300 people gathered to honor the controversial 20-year-old rapper, who, along with a wildly…

  • [NYDN] Five workers taken to hospital after carbon monoxide leak at Jean-Georges’ JoJo Restaurant in Manhattan: FDNY
    (Tuesday, June 19, 2018 9:45:00 PM)

    Five workers at legendary chef Jean-Georges Vongerichten’s Upper East Side restaurant wound up with a bad case of gas — after a carbon monoxide leak left them hospitalized Tuesday night, FDNY officials said.

    The leak came from the basement at JoJo Restaurant, Jean-Georges’ eatery at a brownstone…

  • [NYDN] Rachel Maddow breaks down in tears during live report on ‘tender age’ shelters for immigrant babies
    (Tuesday, June 19, 2018 9:40:00 PM)

    Rachel Maddow lost her composure during her MSNBC show Tuesday night as she attempted to report on the latest tragic news about the children being held at detention centers after being taken away from their parents.

    The show host broke down while reading The Associated Press’ report about “tender…

  • [NYDN] Judd Apatow calls out First Lady Melania Trump for tweet about how to ‘positively impact children’ while thousands of migrant kids are taken from their parents
    (Tuesday, June 19, 2018 9:20:00 PM)

    Judd Apatow wants Melania Trump to be best — or do anything at all.

    Amid controversy over thousands of children being held in detention centers after being ripped away from their parents, the First Lady offered a vague tweet about the immigration issues her husband has spent days railing about…

  • [NYDN] Mets reliever AJ Ramos to have surgery Wednesday to repair torn labrum, will miss rest of season
    (Tuesday, June 19, 2018 9:00:00 PM)

    Right-handed reliever AJ Ramos will have surgery on Wednesday to repair a torn labrum in his right shoulder. He will miss the rest of the season.

    Initially, the Mets placed Ramos on the disabled list on May 28 with what the team called a strained right shoulder. The Mets said they had not known…

  • [NYDN] Canada high! Becomes second country in world to legalize sale of weed
    (Tuesday, June 19, 2018 9:00:00 PM)

    TORONTO — Canada’s Senate gave final passage Tuesday to the federal government’s bill to legalize cannabis, though Canadians will have to wait at least a couple of months to legally buy marijuana as their country becomes the second in the world to make pot legal nationwide.

    Prime Minister Justin…

  • [NYDN] Trump, House GOP meet as tensions boil over child-detention crisis: ‘Politically, this is bad’
    (Tuesday, June 19, 2018 8:55:00 PM)

    WASHINGTON — President Donald Trump on Tuesday told House Republicans he is “1,000 percent” behind their rival immigration bills, providing little clear direction for party leaders searching for a way to defuse the escalating controversy over family separations at the southern border.

    And it’s…

  • [NYDN] Madman socks Q train conductor in the head at Brooklyn subway stop
    (Tuesday, June 19, 2018 8:30:00 PM)

    A subway conductor is on the mend after a maniac sucker-punched him in the head at a Brooklyn Q train stop Tuesday.

    Frank Sbano, 60, was on the job when his Brighton Beach-bound train arrived at the Prospect Park station at about 11:50 a.m. when a straphanger socked him, authorities said.

    One Twitter…

  • [NYDN] Brawlers used knives, beach umbrella during wild Coney Island melee that left one stabbed, one slashed
    (Tuesday, June 19, 2018 8:05:00 PM)

    A gang of brawlers who stabbed a teenager in the stomach on the Coney Island Boardwalk Monday night used a bright beach umbrella to bludgeon a second victim — and cops are hoping security footage will help catch the fiends.

    Police on Tuesday released video and photos of five young men involved…

  • [NYDN] Gleyber Torres launches deep home run that even MLB Statcast doesn’t register as Yankees continue to flex muscles
    (Tuesday, June 19, 2018 7:55:00 PM)

    Gleyber Torres broke Statcast.

    The Yankees 21-year-old rookie capped a night filled with four mammoth home runs from the Bronx Bombers with a solo blast in the eighth inning that traveled about 10 rows deep into the left-center field bleachers, but never registered on MLB’s Statcast, which tracks…

  • [NYDN] Man, 22, fatally shot in his car, tries to speed off, then crashes on Bronx street
    (Tuesday, June 19, 2018 7:40:00 PM)

    A Bronx shooting victim made a final, desperate bid to drive away from his attacker before collapsing in his car Tuesday, cops said.

    Jose Velez, 22, was sitting in his Honda Accord, with his girlfriend, when he started arguing with a man on Van Nest Ave. and Unionport Road in Van Nest just after…

  • [NYDN] Aaron Boone says Giancarlo Stanton’s batting stance has not changed before Yankees slugger goes deep in win over Mariners
    (Tuesday, June 19, 2018 7:30:00 PM)

    Aaron Boone insists Giancarlo Stanton’s adjusted batting stance is nothing more than a mirage.

    The Yankees manager said before Tuesday’s 7-2 win over the Mariners that despite YES Network cameras showing a split screen of a slightly less closed stance from Stanton on Monday, the right-handed slugger…

  • [NYDN] Protesters crash Homeland Security boss Kirstjen Nielsen’s dinner at Mexican eatery
    (Tuesday, June 19, 2018 7:10:00 PM)

    Rowdy protesters crashed Homeland Security Kirstjen Nielsen’s “work dinner” at a Mexican restaurant on Tuesday night and left her speechless.

    The demonstrators marched into the MXDC restaurant in Washington around 8 p.m. and confronted Nielsen and her dinner companion on the Trump administration…

  • [SNY Knicks] Knicks gave Trae Young ‘a good feel and vibe’
    (Tuesday, June 19, 2018 11:16:57 PM)

    NBA draft prospect Trae Young said he got “a good feel and vibe” with the Knicks.

  • [SNY Knicks] Ice Cube on one-on-one game between Dolan and Oakley
    (Tuesday, June 19, 2018 6:53:29 PM)

  • [SNY Knicks] Former Knick Walt Frazier knows what New York needs in the Draft
    (Tuesday, June 19, 2018 3:30:45 PM)

    Former Knicks and current MSG Network color commentator, Walt “Clyde” Frazier, knows exactly what New York needs to do in the Draft on Thursday.

  • [SNY Knicks] Knox to Knicks could be gaining momentum
    (Tuesday, June 19, 2018 1:00:06 PM)

    With only two days until the 2018 NBA Draft, the Knicks are locking up their draft board as they pinpoint the potential prospects they want to select with their No. 9 overall pick.

  • 159 comments on “Knicks Morning News (2018.06.20)

    1. Knick fan not in NJ at this time

      I listened to a draft preview of Jared Jackson Jr. He’s the first top pick I’ve heard a preview of who is clearly a two way player. I know there’s no chance, but I want him on the Knicks.

    2. ess-dog

      I still can’t believe that we would go Knox over Miles, who is better at literally everything but is a few inches shorter. I’m hoping this is just a ploy to trade down and pick up an extra asset.

    3. Frank

      I’ve sort of come to terms with the idea that we might end up with Knox (although I guess there’s still a chance he may even go as high as #7 to Chicago?).

      I guess the mitigating factors to his overall poor statistical profile is that he played the 2 / 3 for Kentucky with two bigs on the floor and no other real shooting, meaning the lane was clogged and the offense often just bogged down. Tough also to get offensive rebounds as a guy running off screens for most of your offensive life, and defending on the perimeter a fair amount probably didn’t help his defensive rebounding.

      Not to sound too much like Jowles, but some of that sounds a bit like excuses for a guy you want to like just for his physical profile. I guess it comes down to whether he’s more Paul George or more Jeff Green. At the very least he probably profiles as a much better shooter than Green with similar skills in transition. George’s scouting reports from way back when also suggested that he wasn’t “tough” on defense and was mostly potential there (but of course George was among the NCAA leaders in steals, whereas Knox doesn’t do much of that at all).

      (side note – the measurements thing really is a weird bag. For instance, Jeff Green measured 6’7″ without shoes with a 7’1.25″ wingspan but standing reach was only 8’7″. Knox measured marginally taller at 6’7.75″ with a shorter wingspan (6’11.75″) but his standing reach is 5″ longer at 9′. Knox has one of the tallest standing reaches of any 3/4 combo forward just looking back over the years so at least from that perspective should be able to play the 4 comfortably as he gets stronger. As another side note, he is almost exactly the same measurements as Paul George, who measured 6’7.75″ with a 6’11.25″ wingspan and an 8’11” standing reach)

    4. Ingmarrrr

      Bamba is now falling to 8th on nbadraft.net. I’m offer Cleveland the 9th pick, the 36th, and anyone they want other than Frank and KP.

    5. Frank

      Couple last thoughts –
      I basically can convince myself of anything, so here goes – I’m ok with Knox over Mikal and Miles because it’s plausible that his upside his higher than either of the Brothers Bridges. With a top-10 pick, perhaps we should really taking big swings and banking on our development infrastructure — even if we don’t hit on him, we still have other ways of getting good players as a big desirable market.

      Second things – look at this picture of Frank (and the other young “Fiz Kids”). Frank certainly has put on some muscle this offseason, but the most noticeable thing to me is how big his frame is. his shoulders look much closer to Isiah Hicks than Troy Williams. He easily could put on another 15-20 lbs of muscle.

    6. alsep73

      Someone yesterday quoted Givony as saying Young had a bad workout with us and thus we won’t take him. That bums me out. He’s far from a perfect prospect, but if he slips to 9, I’d take him all day over any of these wings, regardless of our stupid roster construction. He and Frank seem like great complements.

    7. english_knick

      A lot of what I’ve read says we still have porter and Trae ahead of Knox and maybe Mikal too. It seems pretty clear that Knox has jumped anyone outside of the consensus top 8 and Mikal – especially Miles B. Hard to tell between Knox and Mikal who we like better. But I have a hard time believing we pass on any of the top 8 if they fall – so looking for Sexton, Mikal, SGA or Knox himself to get into one of those first 8 picks…

    8. Zanzibar

      Givony tweeted that JJJ refused to work out for Memphis and will not provide a medical either. So JJJ, Porter, and Bamba have all indicated they don’t want to play for Grizz. However, so far no reporting that Doncic would be averse to playing there. Maybe we should therefore hope that Hawks take Luka. Grizz might not want to draft a player who doesn’t want to be there so if Ayton, Doncic, JJJ, Porter and Bamba are not options, a trade down might make some sense for them.

      Givony or Woj is reporting that Clips are adamant in not wanting to take Parsons contract so there might be some hope for us. KP and JJJ would be so awesome together. Both are PnPop guys on offense and JJJ could be main screen-setter and dive guy on PnR. They could flex between the 4/5 on defense. JJJ could cover the guy who’s more lethal in the PnR. The rim protection might be the best in NBA history: both of these guys had incredible block rates playing the 4.

      I think the max offer I would make is #9, 2019 top 3 protected, #36, Timmy (or Courtney if they prefer him), Troy, Baker. I’d be reluctant to include Burke or Dot in any deal. They’re both above average reserves at a minimum and Dotson offers potential when you consider how he played in April when given regular minutes. I even view Dot + Burke > 2019 pick.

    9. Z-man

      I still can’t believe that we would go Knox over Miles, who is better at literally everything but is a few inches shorter. I’m hoping this is just a ploy to trade down and pick up an extra asset.

      …and a few years younger…

      Why are the same people who were so high on Frank Ntilikina despite him not being particularly good at anything in France are so down on Knox? Isn’t it virtually the same story?

    10. Zanzibar

      Draft Express nailed the first 11 picks in order in last summer’s mock. Here’s their latest:
      1. Ayton
      2. Bagley
      3. JJJ
      4. Luka
      5. Bamba
      6. Carter
      7. Porter
      8. SGA
      9. Knox
      10 Mikal Bridges
      11 Collin
      12 Young

      The two main uncertainties which are very relevant to us are:
      (1) Whether Hawks pick Luka or JJJ. If they pick JJJ, then Memphis will take Doncic and there’s no trade up there.
      (2) Whether Orlando takes Carter or Trae or some other 1 guard.
      – If they don’t take Carter, then maybe he drops to us unless Cavs take him.
      – If Orlando picks Carter, it looks like Trae could be available. Do we try to trade down to Clippers offering #9/#36 or do pick Trae? I’d trade down. This is the type of draft where there are gonna be some nice players in the 10-15 range. I’d much rather have those 2 picks than a boom-or-bust guy like Trae. It’s very hard to project how 1 guards will do in NBA plus I think Frank will be fine as a 1 guard so I wouldn’t want to eat into his minutes and then have Trae bust. Plus Kyrie in 2019 is a real possibility. If Clips don’t want to trade up and Carter is gone, ugh.

    11. Ben R

      I know people are trying to convince themselves about Knox as a swing for the fences type pick because he is so young with good size, but I don’t see it. Two other players projected in or around the lottery are about the same age JJJ (one month younger) and Zhaire Smith (two months older). Both of them are also raw with offensive games that need to develop the difference is that both of them, do some things at elite levels. The things they do at elite levels are things that age does not effect like athleticism, motor, and defensive effort. Knox is missing those things and being young is not an excuse for not getting after it defensively or not having a great motor or not having great quickness.

      Being young isn’t enough of a strength when there are no glimmers of upside to go with it. I look at Jackson or Smith or even Frank and I can see how they could become all-stars, I can see the path to them being elite players. The chance of that happening is debatable and ultimately determines their value but I can imagine it. When I look at Knox with not a single elite strength and real weaknesses (effort, motor, quickness) in areas that being young does not excuse and I struggle to even see a path to him being great.

      Please no Knox. Ultimately that’s all I ask. There are other players I don’t want but Knox is truly the worst possible outcome.

    12. Z-man

      After watching his Schmits/Givony scouting video carefully, I just don’t get the JJJ love. He seems like a total clutz on the offensive end. I would take Bamba over him any day of the week and twice on Thursdays in late June.

    13. The Glass Half Rebuilt

      I’m not making a deal with Memphis unless Doncic is there. Hardaway Jr and Mikal Bridges to Memphis for Doncic and Parsons.

    14. Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada

      @12

      I’m pretty lukewarm on Frank but at least he possesses one elite skill in defense and one very good skill in his passing (or at very least he projects to be elite and very good at each respectively.) Knox has literally no elite skills and is getting picked way above what is justifiable because of his age and his “NBA body” and other eye test bullshit. He’s the worst pick in the lottery besides Lonnie Walker. And, what do you know, the Knicks are eyeing both.

    15. Z-man

      Frank’s passing was hardly “good” in France. It was mediocre at best. His D was also overrated, he made plenty of mistakes. Most of the good stuff about his D was based on “upside” rather than accomplishment.

      This is not to defend Knox, only to say that we should be consistent in our values.

    16. DRed

      Why are the same people who were so high on Frank Ntilikina despite him not being particularly good at anything in France are so down on Knox?

      I wasn’t high on Frank Ntilikina because he wasn’t particularly good at anything in France. He wasn’t particularly good at much in the NBA last year either, but I will say he did show much more passing ability on the Knicks than he did in Europe. I wouldn’t have drafted Ntilikina. (and I might be wrong-he’s better than I thought he’d be)

    17. Nick C.

      Wasn’t a lot of the “hype” on Frank based on him being MVP at the European U18 Championship?

    18. Ben R

      Z-Man the difference is that there are things that are elite about Frank’s potential right now. He has elite defensive tools and motor and size and quickness. It is reflected in the numbers, PNR defense, on/off, DWS, etc. He’s not elite defensively yet but the potential is easy to see. Offensively he’s a mess. I’m not talking value, that’s debatable, it’s just the upside is there at least on one side of the ball.

      Knox, looking at numbers, on/off, dbpm, all the per minute stats, etc. there is nothing elite. Not a single thing that you can point to and say there it is that’s why he’s going to be good. Frank had things you can point to so does JJJ and Smith. All very young, all very raw and all might not work out but at least there is something to attach your hopes to. Knox has nothing. If he had elite potential it would have shown up somewhere in his numbers.

    19. Stratomatic "Porzingis, Ntilikina, and one of the Bridges are going to lead us to the promised land"

      Why are the same people who were so high on Frank Ntilikina despite him not being particularly good at anything in France are so down on Knox? Isn’t it virtually the same story?

      It seems to me people have a tough time seeing shades of grey or nuance about anything these days. Everything is one extreme or the other.

      We should not be looking exclusively at current production because projections sometimes don’t work well.

      We should not be looking at just projections because we have to swing for the fences.

      We should be looking at current production, making projections, and trying to evaluate the probability that our projection will be correct (because that varies from player to player also based on IQ, work ethic, athleticism, age etc..).

      It’s an overall appraisal process.

    20. Ben R

      @22 I agree. But with a player like Knox there are concrete red flags that usually indicate bust and no huge elite strengths to make up for them. There are so many better picks no matter what you are looking for. You are right that it is not about current production but youth is not an excuse for everything.

    21. DRed

      It’s worth keeping in mind that NBA teams lie a lot this time of year. Still, if we’re going to draft a project to develop I’d rather start with someone like De’Anthony Melton, who seems like a very good defender and you hope you can get him to play offense than a guy who might be good on offense and try to develop the rest of his game. Knox is fine for the late first round, don’t waste a good pick on another guy who has to get better at everything if you can take some kid who is also still young but has demonstrated better production.

    22. Stratomatic "Porzingis, Ntilikina, and one of the Bridges are going to lead us to the promised land"

      I was actually strongly against drafting Ntilikina at first because I couldn’t understand how a kid that couldn’t score in France was going to score in the NBA. I softened my view a little as we got closer to the draft, but now I love him. I put a lot of weight on IQ and work ethic when it comes to making projections. I think he has an abundance of both. So when I see where he is now, it seems to me that becoming a top defender that can also make players and knock down 3s is the floor. I’ll take that.

    23. bobneptune

      It seems to me people have a tough time seeing shades of grey or nuance about anything these days. Everything is one extreme or the other.

      Are you speaking of the Knicks or politics :-)

    24. Aten

      @22

      The issue is that sometimes there aren’t shades of gray and cutting the baby in half isn’t nuance. Take for example Porzingis, obviously the most impactful player/contract/issue facing the team and primary thing for us to talk about as far as whether the next ten years are gonna go the same way as the last 20. Black box plus minus and some people’s eyes say he’s great. Wins produced and other people’s eyes say he’s shitty. Nobody is obligated to split the difference and say it’s somewhere in between when that conclusion is something nobody believes and has no actionable takeaway.

    25. Stratomatic "Porzingis, Ntilikina, and one of the Bridges are going to lead us to the promised land"

      @23

      I don’t have a strong opinion on Knox. I’ve been a big Mikal guy all along, but now I’m kind of wondering about that. A buddy of mine has sort of convinced me there’s not a huge difference between Mikal and Dotson in size, player profile, or on upside to think we have to take Mikal. So I am starting to think about alternatives. But I’m not a huge fan of Young or Miles for different reasons. So I think the Knox idea is at least worth investigating.

    26. Stratomatic "Porzingis, Ntilikina, and one of the Bridges are going to lead us to the promised land"

      Are you speaking of the Knicks or politics :-)

      Everything. :-)

    27. Stratomatic "Porzingis, Ntilikina, and one of the Bridges are going to lead us to the promised land"

      @27

      I think all the box score models are flawed in different ways and can occasionally misvalue players with certain profiles by a significant amount. I also think they are measuring a player’s productivity given his current role on that team, with those teammates, and in that system now. At the margin those things matter and can be changed.

      So I see the middle ground here too.

      I understand that KP has not been as productive as the most extreme hype, but I also know the models are undervaluing his defense and can’t capture how easy it would be make him more productive.

    28. Zanzibar

      Concerning Knox, the problem is we’re not privy to a lot of important information. For example, Schmitz is very high on him; he’s been following him since high school and says he was a tenacious defender there and is a smart kid. Then there’s the workouts. Apparently he’s been killing it in group workouts so I’d imagine he’d have to look decent on defense. I’d rather take Carter at #9 but after him all of the options have issues. If NYK take Knox, I would have to trust that front office did its due diligence and talked to Knox and all of his previous coaches to figure out why his college stats were so blah. Was it a combination of it being a Kentucky thing, his age, playing out of position? I have no idea but I’m not gonna be too broken up because it’s not clear Miles/Mikal/Walker…and so on are *that* much better bets. Knox is at least very young and plays a position of need so if its a crap shoot I’m not gonna lose sleep if they pick him.

      I’d much prefer a Grizz trade up, a Clip trade down, or Wendell Carter but if none of those are options what are you gonna do? We just have to trust that the front office did its due diligence. The front office that gave THJ that contract. The front office that took so long to call Burke up from G-league. The front office that looked at Denver tape and thought Mudiay was worth a 2nd round pick and should take minutes from Burke and Frank. The front office that let Hornacek play crappy vets last season instead of giving guys like Dot, Luke, Hicks, etc more burn. Ugh…I’m depressed.

    29. chrisconley

      I don’t think the Knox rumors are smokescreen. Everyone knew the Knicks were taking Frank last year in the week leading up to the draft and they did. Same this year. I absolutely want to get pumped about Knox but can’t for the life of me. Weak stats, weak tape. Everything about the dude seems soft. Low motor? That’s pretty much the last thing you want to hear when all the kid’s upside is based on his potential and every part of his game needs a lot of work. That sounds exactly like Jeff Green. I guess if he impressed behind closed doors and was totally misused by Cal that’s something to hold on to? I guess? Hopefully all the naysayers in here are wrong (myself included).

      Moving on, who should we be hoping for @36? Rumor is that we like Simons. Thoughts? Looks like he can create his own shot which would be amazing on this team. Looks a little small to be that switchable wing we’re supposedly looking for.

    30. swiftandabundant

      @ 33 – I don’t completely agree with this. Last year, yes, it was basically the consensus that the Knicks were going to take Frank BUT also last year it was much more set in stone what the draft order was going to be. Also, if you went back to the day to day articles that came out in the few weeks leading up to the draft, there absolutely were articles about the Knicks liking this prospect or that prospect.

      Also, one KEY difference. Last year Phil Jackson was still technically running the show up until I think maybe today was the day he was fired?

    31. Z-man

      @21 I’m only referring to those who advocated for him pre-draft when his statistical profile (and game film) were meh at best. It was all “wingspan, youth, potential, Europe vs. NCAA.” He never worked out for the Knicks, nor did he participate in a combine. So those that were so high on him shouldn’t criticize Knox based on “lack of accomplishment” or “lack of information.” He’s basically the same as Frank.

    32. swiftandabundant

      Zanzibar you need to chill out. You’re focusing on minor moves that the front office supposedly made that are in your eyes so awful. So if Burke came up a week earlier, would that have been good enough for you? Seems silly to focus on when we brought up Burke as to some empirical proof our new front office is incompetent. How many people kill the D-League and then suck in the NBA (cough cough Jimmer).

    33. Donnie Walsh

      So JJJ, Porter, and Bamba have all indicated they don’t want to play for Grizz.

      I don’t get this. The players in Memphis seem happy and loyal. They have strong fan support in the city. They are usually surprisingly competitive.

      And, most importantly, the #5 pick stands to make $2,000,000 less than the #4 over the rookie deal and $4,000,000 less than the #6.

      It shows low IQ to freeze out Memphis at #4. Just saying.

    34. swiftandabundant

      @ 39 – I’m from Tennessee (Nashville) and have spent A LOT of time in Memphis. Great food, cool music history, Beale Street is fun…its a fun place….to visit for a long weekend.

      I would not want to live there and I can see why a lot of NBA players wouldn’t want to live there. Its a third tier city. There’s a ton of poverty and racism in Memphis. And unlike other mid sized cities its size…its not growing at all. The population is declining (people moving away when they grow up) and their tax base is shrinking. Again, super fun place to visit. Graceland, Beale street, Sun and Stacks Records…and it does have some old southern charm factor to it. But there’s a lot of problems there too.

    35. The Glass Half Rebuilt

      Bleacher Report’s latest big board just came out and they have Mikal Bridges’ wingspan listed at 6’9 1/2”. If that’s the case (and it really looks like he has a 7’ wingspan), that damages his draft stock a bit.

    36. english_knick

      I think last year everyone thought we’d take frank IF the picks ahead of us went as expected.

      I suspect it’s the same this year. IF those players expected to be there at 9 are – Bridges x 2, Sexton, SGA etc, it looks like we’re going Knox. But I still think if a top 8 guy falls, we’ll pick him. I’m not wild with that but I think I’m ok with it. I’d still explore dropping a couple of slots because I think Knox will be there for us if we do.

    37. iserp

      @21 I’m only referring to those who advocated for him pre-draft when his statistical profile (and game film) were meh at best. It was all “wingspan, youth, potential, Europe vs. NCAA.” He never worked out for the Knicks, nor did he participate in a combine. So those that were so high on him shouldn’t criticize Knox based on “lack of accomplishment” or “lack of information.” He’s basically the same as Frank.

      I dont think Ntilikina’s numbers in Europe were bad. In Europe they are stingy counting assits, and there are not many minutes to go around. He played an important role in his team and was a good defender.

      Personally, draft is kind of a mystery to me. Pundits usually have a very clear ladder of talent, and then everything turns out differently. Okafor had 64.0%TS and KAT was supposed to be a good defender. So, I wont complain too much about Kevin Knox if that is the pick, but if he does not have the stats, the eye test fails, and has no motor, I am a bit skeptical.

    38. ess-dog

      I have to say, every word that Michael Porter Jr. utters makes him sound more and more like a complete douche. It’s a real concern.

    39. Jack Bauer

      Knox or Walker at 9? Please No
      Hoping they’ll develop NBA skills is not a plan.

      @6 have to strongly agree. What Knicks developmental structure?
      Developing prospects is not a strength of this organization.

    40. Hubert

      I’m not making a deal with Memphis unless Doncic is there. Hardaway Jr and Mikal Bridges to Memphis for Doncic and Parsons.

      I don’t understand this thinking. Parsons contract is nothing to us. We’re currently staring down the barrel of Kevin Knox at 9. At 4 I’m guaranteed to get one of Luka, Jackson, Bamba. I’m doing that trade today and I don’t care if Luka is there.

    41. ptmilo

      anyone see the story about a team asking Kevin Knox about his child their intelligence checks turned up? he said ‘what child’ and they said lolz got us just testing. I’m gonna have to pretend that’s not accurate for sanity purposes because that would be really fucked up.

    42. Hubert

      A good comp for Knox, I think, is Harrison Barnes. They’re physically similar, and their freshman year stats are nearly identical.

      I don’t know how that makes me feel, to be honest. Barnes had two decent seasons and was the 5th or 6th best player on Golden State, but he’s been a pretty mediocre player all around. That’s pretty much what I’d expect from Knox, and is not at all what I want with the 9th pick.

    43. Hubert

      If NYK take Knox, I would have to trust that front office did its due diligence and talked to Knox and all of his previous coaches to figure out why his college stats were so blah.

      This is where we diverge. I don’t trust Mills and Perry. I think they think they’re in love with athleticism, aesthetics, and other things that don’t matter if you can’t produce.

      EDIT: sorry, I should have kept reading!

      The front office that gave THJ that contract. The front office that took so long to call Burke up from G-league. The front office that looked at Denver tape and thought Mudiay was worth a 2nd round pick and should take minutes from Burke and Frank. The front office that let Hornacek play crappy vets last season instead of giving guys like Dot, Luke, Hicks, etc more burn. Ugh…I’m depressed.

    44. Grocer

      memphis will get a better offer than the 9 and THJ

      I’m unclear on who is in a position to give them a better offer, but if some other team wants to overpay for Parson’s horrible contract let them. The Knicks have to stop overpaying. We can’t afford to trade away next year’s first. Maybe swap rights. Maybe. If Doncic is still available at 4.

    45. Bruno Almeida

      Dallas apparently wants to move to Memphis spot, I have no idea why.

      To the Knox – Ntilikina thing: the reason I don’t want Knox is precisely because we got Ntilikina last year. We can’t have too many projects who we are unsure of their futures as the strategy, it gets to a point where you keep trying to swing for the fences and it is very hard to pull off the development necessary.

      I liked Ntilikina because the defense seemed a sure thing and he reportedly had elite work ethic and a good basketball IQ. I still think it was a good pick even though I’m disappointed in his offensive game, simply because I didn’t see any other prospects at the time that were more guaranteed to have success (I didn’t see Mitchell being good this early). This year, there are veritable prospects who have shown better production like Mikal and Miles or Carter and Knox only has the body, he’s not shown anything to tell me he’s going to be good at anything specific in the NBA. He’s too much of a project for my taste, for a team that already has a couple of guys to develop in that sense.

    46. Brian Cronin

      You know what I don’t get? How can Vegas be taking bets on when players will be drafted? Isn’t that information that people have access to?

    47. nicos

      Kevin Knox is a full year younger than Michael Porter Jr.- if he’d spent last year beating up on high school kids he’d probably have gone into next year as a preseason consensus top three pick so just think of drafting him as trading up without having to give away anything!

    48. Stratomatic "Porzingis, Ntilikina, and one of the Bridges are going to lead us to the promised land"

      anyone see the story about a team asking Kevin Knox about his child their intelligence checks turned up? he said ‘what child’ and they said lolz got us just testing.

      I thought the whole thing was strange.

      What would having a child have to do with his ability to play basketball?

      If it was some kind of character test, what would making up a story like that reveal?

    49. Stratomatic "Porzingis, Ntilikina, and one of the Bridges are going to lead us to the promised land"

      You know what I don’t get? How can Vegas be taking bets on when players will be drafted? Isn’t that information that people have access to?

      It is kind of odd, but I have to assume they adjust the odds very quickly if they get too much action on certain players and probably also limit the bet sizes so no one crushes them with inside info.

    50. Bruno Almeida

      And another story comes out about Dwight’s ex-teammates loving that he got traded. What the hell does this guy do on a locker room? I’m really curious as to what makes him so universally hated amongst other players.

    51. airkent

      Look I think everyone knows that whoever we draft is going to be bad next year, hell it has been mentioned many times here that Durant wasn’t good his first year statistically and he was way more accomplished then any of these guys coming in. A lot of these guys make huge jumps there second and third years, knox has a great physical profile but is he willing to work as hard as PG, Giannis, KD, Kawaii or hell even Tobais Harris. Our scouts need to make that call, I’ve liked most of their picks.

      What do guys here want the knicks to do draft good players with low ceilings and build a playoff team that can attract a marquee free agent to put us over the top? Or to gamble in the draft tell we hit a blue chip? I’m more inclined for the second route because I’m okay with us being bad for a couple of more years but the first strategy merits value. Ideally Frank comes back next year as a much better shooter(showing our player development is good) and our rookie sucks but shows potential landing us a top 3 pick.

    52. Ntilakilla

      Jesus, I think Frank is getting up to 6’8 based on that picture with the other youngbloods.

    53. Ntilakilla

      Kevin Knox screams to me of a Malik Monk type. Terrific shooter, limited handle, no creation, and putrid defense. Count me out.

    54. Bruno Almeida

      @59

      Ok, yeah, I get it. I imagined it had something to do with it but damn, how can a guy be this oblivious to everyone else around him.

    55. Donnie Walsh

      Wait, it’s not Memphis those guys are trying to avoid, it’s Sacramento (according to the yahoo homepage at least). Or are they trying to avoid both cities?

      That’s just weird. The price of being a high pick (and thus getting the most money) is that you get drafted by shitty teams to rebuild.

      And it’s not like they have any real control, even if they successfully stonewall their way to a city they like. I mean, they must know that even if they get drafted by NY that they’ll probably be traded to Toronto next July for DeMar DeRozan, right?

    56. Frank

      Re: Frank – the reason some of us (I think me?) were high on him is because of yes, his physical frame, but also his reputation as a defensive-minded high IQ player. We were most worried about drafting guys like Monk and DSJ who are/were basically the definition of empty calories — dudes who put up big numbers on bad teams. That’s what the Knicks have prioritized over this last 17 year disastrous stretch – guys who put up empty numbers. Drafting Frank was basically the opposite of the usual “Knicks gonna Knick” ethos. DX’s draft profile basically called him the most polished defensive guard in the draft — that was not something we had to project. They also said he was a high IQ player with a strong feel for the game with good passing ability and a promising jump shot but that he would require several years to mature on the court. I think they were basically spot on in that analysis.

      Re: Z-man’s post above:

      Frank’s passing was hardly “good” in France. It was mediocre at best. His D was also overrated, he made plenty of mistakes. Most of the good stuff about his D was based on “upside” rather than accomplishment.

      Wow I did not realize you watched Frank since puberty in France like the DX guys did?

      Now Knox is actually 2 weeks younger for his class than Frank. DX is saying similarly good stuff about him, and like someone posted above, they’ve been watching him since age 15 or earlier. It seems they probably have a better handle on what his projection should be than armchair scouts watching youtube highlight videos for the last 5 days. I’m nervous about his lack of statistical production, just like everyone else is.

      But – the one thing this franchise has done well even during the last 10 years is draft well. Clarence Gaines is still there. The European scouts are still there. John Gabriel is still there. I have a little hope they know what they’re doing, and I think it’s justified.

    57. Frank

      I ran a query on NCAA freshmen considered guard/forwards with steal, block, and assist rates less than or equal to Knox’s. To say the results aren’t pretty would be an enormous understatement. 95 players came up, zero of them became NBA contributors. Hi Travis Wear!

      Seriously this guy is going to be a bust and if we take him we can go ahead and fast forward the next 8 seasons or so.

      Hey, Ben Simmons is on that list.

      Nah strike that, it’s Ben Simons from Drake.

      lol. not a promising list.

    58. Frank

      Re: Sacramento – I actually spend a fair amount of time there — it’s really not that bad. The downtown area is pretty nice and there really are some nice neighborhoods. It’s 2 hours from SF and and 2 hours from Tahoe. It’s certainly no worse than OKC, Atlanta, San Antonio, Cleveland, Detroit, Memphis, or any number of other cities in terms of the actual city.

      I wonder if they really would benefit from dumping Vlade. Not sure any agents / players trust him to build something the right way.

    59. Totes McGoats as Totes McGoats

      Shit..why did we not get on the Howard trade? We need to find someone to send to Charlotte asap! I get the value in the picks..but Howard was an expiring! An expiring they traded for a lesser but more expensive player and 2 2nds! Considering that they have younger bigs they want to get in the rotation, I would think they’d take back Noah and the 30 for Howard. That would be worth it to me especially if it causes Kanter to go elsewhere

    60. Bruno Almeida

      @70

      It was for tax relief only pretty much. With Howard the Hornets were in the tax, with Mozgov they’re not even though the contract is longer.

    61. the don nelson era

      @67 hey wait, there’s some other interesting names on that list:
      David Robinson (not the real one)
      Basil Smotherman
      Lasse Gummerus

    62. Totes McGoats as Totes McGoats

      @71
      Ok..that makes sense when you throw in the picks. But wouldn’t Noah and the 30 be a comparable deal for them? A couple million more on the deal, but assuming they would end up stretching Noah- that’s even better for them, right? I’m sorry, my cap & luxury tax knowledge is probably a notch below novice lol

    63. Brian Cronin

      I think there’s actually some room for upside there for the Nets, just based on how little they gave up. Also, how funny would it be if Willy beats out Zeller for the starting job in Charlotte?

    64. Totes McGoats as Totes McGoats

      Just noticed I typed 30 and not 36 in both comments…
      iStoopid

    65. hoolahoop

      Looks like a good deal for the Nets. They can sign two max players and maybe get a reformed D. Howard that would be okay with being the third wheel when his contract expires. Or bye bye. A lot of possibilities.

    66. JK47

      If NYK take Knox, I would have to trust that front office did its due diligence and talked to Knox and all of his previous coaches to figure out why his college stats were so blah.

      This is the same front office that gave Ron Baker a team option and gave Tim Hardaway Jr a 50-year, 873 kajillion dollar contract. Their “due diligence” doesn’t mean shit, because they can’t tell a good player from a bad one.

      For a minute there I had some hope that maybe Perry represent an improvement, and that maybe Mills was the dummy. But now it’s looking like prolly not.

    67. Bruno Almeida

      I personally think this is Howard’s last chance. He’s 32 and still productive, he’s going to a young team that can focus their offense around him and who needs badly the rebounding and blocking he can provide if he’s focused. If he fails to make an impact again, there’s no way he ever gets a big deal anymore.

      I like the deal for the Nets simply because if Howard is terrible, they finally have their own pick and are he’s gone next year. If he’s good they’re finally respectable and still have a lot of cap space to work with. The Nets have been clearly fishing for players who are at their lowest value possible and trying to see if something comes out of it.

      Lin / Russell / Hollis-Jefferson / Carroll / Howard should be a pretty competitive team and they have a lot of depth. That’s also good news for the Knicks if we do indeed suck as it’s a rival for the lottery getting better (and unless the Hornets trade Kemba away they’ll still be mediocre)

    68. DRed

      The nets are probably going to try to move Howard at the deadline. He’s a useful player but everyone in the league hates him.

    69. GianaDani

      I wish Phil Jack or even Mike Maccagnan was in charge for this week only; Don’t trust Perry and Mills combo leading the negotiation with Memphis.

      Luka and/or Mamba could be in HOF.

      Trae, Begley and JJJ, Ayton are all stars in the making…

      Perry and Mills are lillygagging and window-shopping with Dolan’s deep pockets.

      Noah + 36 for Howard’s expiring is much better than Jordan gave and got from Brooklyn.

    70. thenoblefacehumper

      Berman is indicating that Mikal Bridges is the favorite as of now. That’s great! It’s okay to just be normal!

    71. rama, king of superfluous poppycock

      I have to admit that I’d feel more secure about this draft if it were Phil in charge. The deal to Timmy, the trade for Mudiay, the buzz around Knox…I’m worried.

      That said, I’ll reserve judgment until we see what happens. If it is indeed Knox, it’s just another nail in the coffin of my Knicks passion. Not that it’s impossible he works out, but that would contradict every available bit of information.

      Best case is that Chicago or someone takes Knox before he gets to us….

    72. rama, king of superfluous poppycock

      Even as I post that, I’m realizing, wait, if Knox is gone, it could be Lonnie Walker…

      Thursday night can’t get here soon enough!

    73. Stratomatic "Porzingis, Ntilikina, and one of the Bridges are going to lead us to the promised land"

      Jesus, I think Frank is getting up to 6’8 based on that picture with the other youngbloods.

      If this keeps up we’ll have to move KP back to PF and use Frank as the Point Center. :-)

    74. Stratomatic "Porzingis, Ntilikina, and one of the Bridges are going to lead us to the promised land"

      I have to admit that I’d feel more secure about this draft if it were Phil in charge. The deal to Timmy, the trade for Mudiay, the buzz around Knox…I’m worried.

      Phil made some poor strategic decisions and dumb comments, but does anyone really doubt his ability evaluate talent well?

      Personally, I love the fact that Fisdale is apparently is being given a lot of input. I trust him more than Mills and Perry.

    75. Aten

      @87

      1. Yes.

      2. Mills and Perry giving Fisdale a lot of input makes me trust Fisdale less.

    76. Zanzibar

      I have to admit that I’d feel more secure about this draft if it were Phil in charge. The deal to Timmy, the trade for Mudiay, the buzz around Knox…I’m worried.

      The Mudiay trade is the most worrisome. Many people (including myself) when the trade was announced didn’t realize just how bad Mudiay had been. He was last in RPM across all positions at the time of the deal. In other words, RPM had him as the worst player in the league. And when you watched him as a Knick, that looked quite accurate or in the ball park so I imagine he was playing the same way in Denver. The guy isn’t even that athletic or fast. No front office wanted him in a trade and then NYK offer McDermott and a 2nd round pick.

      This does not bode well at all in terms of player evaluation. The front office either did not do any research at all before making that trade or, even worse, knew about his RPM and did look at the Denver tape and still wanted him. If he doesn’t start the season in the G-League where he’s got plenty of stuff to work on and won’t be taking minutes away from Frank/Burke and Dotson/Troy (domino effect), I will have zero confidence in this crew.

    77. Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada

      It might be happening!!! Hoping against hope, but also hoping we trade up for not MPJr or Bamba.

      Members of the Knicks organization met in-person with Texas’ Mohamed Bamba in New York today, team sources told ESPN. The meeting is an indication that the Knicks are considering trading up from the No. 9 pick. Bamba is projected as the fifth pick in ESPN’s latest mock draft.

      https://twitter.com/IanBegley/status/1009541642389516288?s=19

    78. DRed

      Porzingis, Bridges, Williams, Frank and Baker. Let’s shoot 3s and steal the basketball.

    79. chrisconley

      I have to say that the Knicks scouting is probably the best thing the organization does. And I’m definitely one of those armchair guys that’s only been watching Knox highlights for a few days. But his stats are pretty terrible (someone comped him to McDermott based on statistical profile). I’m just extra cranky about the latest Knox love (according to rumors) bc I think there’s a real chance Trae or WCJ are on the board at 9. And I haven’t heard a single report about Knicks having any interest in Wendell and it sounds like they didn’t like Young at his workout. Someone posted that we’d only go Knox if “The 8″ are gone but I’m not so sure. If Magic draft Trae, Bulls go MPJ, and Cavs go Mikal or Sexton (very possible), do the Knicks leave WCJ on the board bc he’s not an athletic wing? I have no confidence we pick him even tho he’s obviously BPA.

    80. thenoblefacehumper

      Unless there are more signs pointing to the Knicks considering a trade up, my guess is that meeting is just due diligence. We don’t really have much to trade up with and it’s not totally out of the question that Bamba is available at 9 (just very unlikely).

    81. GianaDani

      I don’t understand why Luka is not the 1st pick of the draft. KP barely got playing time at 19yrs for a mediocre 14 win Sevilla team and he made the All star team here 3 years later. Not your Darko and Bargnani type weak Euro. Dont judge a book by its cover. Not all Euro’s are the same. Is KP weak mentally? kid turned super loud boos into cheers quickly and took on a boss with the legendary stature of Phil Jack at 20 yrs old. KP walks the streets of Manhattan without the bs fake flash or security team but with character, authenticity and his head up high.

      Luka too is full of that “NY GRIT”. He quit school and left his home and country at 13yrs old to pursue his dream; Played professionally vs men who tried to bully him since he was 16 yrs old. Coaches and Spanish Madrid media who said he was to slow, too green after every bad game at 17 yrs old. Two yrs later he was the toughest man on the court, Champion and MVP.

      Now he’s done with that league. Luka is more naturally polished and further along than LBJ was at 19. If healthy, I guarantee you he makes the all-star team in his rookie year.

    82. chrisconley

      RE: Dwight

      I was in Philly last spring for a conference eating lunch at a fancy downtown restaurant. The Wizards were in town playing the Sixers that night (they had just shut Joel and BS down, but still won the game!). The waiter sits Gortat and Bogdanovic (fresh to the team) at the table right next to me. No shit, Gortat just randomly rips Dwight for like 5 minutes in the middle of their conversation. Just telling stories about how everyone hated him in ORL. It was hilarious.

    83. Zanzibar

      Givony just tweeted:

      Ian’s report is accurate. The Knicks are reportedly exploring the option of trading up to the #4 spot in the draft, currently owned by Memphis. The Grizzlies have been adamant about shedding Chandler Parsons’ contract in any deal.

    84. ptmilo

      Givony now says Knicks trying to move up to 4

      Edit: already posted. moving up to 4 could be anywhere from great to horrible. so, probably horrible.

    85. thenamestsam

      I’d be over the moon if we could get Doncic at 4, and pretty excited if we got JJJ. If we’re moving up to 4 to get Bamba I’m less excited. Not sure he’s much better of a prospect than the guys who will be available at 9 (leaving aside the issue that we currently seem to be looking at the wrong guys at 9 to my eyes).

    86. djphan

      moving up to 4 kind of sucks if its just for bamba…. but if it saves us from knox sign me up…

      real target should be carter…

    87. ClashFan

      I guess the Knicks are afraid that the Bulls will take Knox at #7, so they are trying to move all the way up to 4 to get their guy.

      :-) ?

    88. DRed

      If it’s just a pick swap with say Lee and Thomas and we eat Chandler’s contract we’d be stupid not to

    89. hoolahoop

      I love the way Doncic plays on the offensive side of the ball, but DeAndre Dayton is the clear #1 pick. MVP potential.
      Someone unexpected is going to drop to the #9 spot that’s higher risk than Mikal. Will the knicks pull the trigger?

    90. ClashFan

      @101
      That would be wonderful.

      Seriously, I wonder if the Knicks covet MPJ if Doncic is not available at 4.

    91. nicos

      If it’s just a pick swap with say Lee and Thomas and we eat Chandler’s contract we’d be stupid not to

      My guess is that the Knicks would at least have add #36 to the mix. That I’d still do. If you have to add another pick (or swap) or Frank I’d pass unless Doncic is there. I still think Memphis will get a better offer though with lots of teams looking to create cap space for next year maybe not.

    92. Z-man

      The only two guys I would trade up for (other than Ayton, as that’s not happening nor would I want it to) are Doncic and Bamba. I truly don’t like JJJ as a prospect. OTOH, I think we’d be able to trade Bamba or KP for at least 3 good assets each, and if Bamba develops and we keep him, we could assemble the best defensive team in the league.

    93. Zanzibar

      If it’s just a pick swap with say Lee and Thomas and we eat Chandler’s contract we’d be stupid not to

      Might be time to take our 5.5m cash out of the vault and dangle it in front of new Memphis owner.

      moving up to 4 could be anywhere from great to horrible. so, probably horrible.

      According to my translator which projects trades based on Mudiay deal, NYK will offer #9/2019 pick/Frank/Burke/Dotson for #4/Parsons/McLemore.

      In other news, 76ers bringing Knox in for a 2nd workout.

    94. hoolahoop

      The knicks should have Memphis on the line before their name gets called . . . just in case Doncic or Ayton fall to #4.
      The only untouchable is KP.

    95. rama, king of superfluous poppycock

      Porzingis, Bridges, Williams, Frank and Baker. Let’s shoot 3s and steal the basketball.

      Absolutely! And block it.

    96. Z-man

      I’m also not crazy about Bagley but like him better than JJJ. Wouldn’t trade up for either, or anyone else on the list.

    97. rama, king of superfluous poppycock

      I can’t tell if I think the #9 + Timmy or Lee is a good deal for Memphis because I’m a Knicks fan or it actually is…but it does seem like a playoff team to me, and reportedly that’s what Memphis wants (along with getting out from under Parsons’ deal).

    98. Bruno Almeida

      Atlanta is reportedly between Bamba and Doncic, and Sacramento has shown interest in Bagley and Porter… man, there’s a real chance the 4th could include Bamba or Doncic or even both. It makes a lot of sense to think Bamba will for sure be available as he’s the one prospect who already said he won’t go to Memphis, and the Grizzlies, if they know he’ll be the best prospect available would naturally want to move out.

      I would be ecstatic to move from selecting Knox or Bridges to Bamba or Doncic, obviously Doncic is the target but after researching more on Bamba I’m liking him more and more. Such a smart and eloquent kid, seems like a super hard worker and he seems like he’s got his fundamentals in a pretty good place.

      Memphis would be giving up the best asset and the worst asset in the trade no matter what.

      The big issue is that we probably don’t have space to just absorb Parsons’ contract, so Memphis would have to like THJ or some combination of Lee, Lance and Baker to make it work. Even if we give up the 9th and the 36th at this point I would do it.

    99. danvt

      I’m in favor of trading up to any spot as long as it involves someone presently on their roster except for KP.

      If they include next year’s first, it better be for Luka and the hype better be real…

      Otherwise, get the best available talent at #9 and work on getting the veterans off the team or at least out of the lineup.

      Yup, I said it.

      Hey, if Frank and Dotson lead us to forty wins I won’t complain. If we get thirty we add another #9 to this years #9 and last years #8.

      Maybe we sit KP all year…Win 10 games. Pick 8th again.

      Love yas. Thanks for the knowledge. Peace.

    100. Cock Jowles, #1 Purveyor of Wanton Chuckery

      I personally think this is Howard’s last chance. He’s 32 and still productive, he’s going to a young team that can focus their offense around him and who needs badly the rebounding and blocking he can provide if he’s focused. If he fails to make an impact again, there’s no way he ever gets a big deal anymore.

      It is incredible that this is a guy who has played 34.5 MPG for his whole 1035-game career, is rarely injured, has started all but one of those games, has 3 DPOYs, and 5 All-Defensive selections, 8 All-NBA and had a couple of MVP-candidate cases, and is still at the very least a solid starter despite 35,000+ MP in this league–

      and he’s essentially a journeyman being unloaded for tax relief who probably won’t get more than a Vince-Carter-victory-lap contract at age 33.

    101. thenoblefacehumper

      I think the reason a potential Memphis deal has gained some steam is Atlanta is settling on Doncic and thus the #4 pick has lost a decent amount of value. I’d definitely accept a Parsons-THJ/Lee swap to move up and probably would surrender #36 as well, but not sure adding much else makes sense if we know Luka is gone. That said, picking from JJJ/Bamba/Young/Carter is a lot more appealing than picking from The Brothers Bridges/Kevin Knox/Lonnie Walker.

    102. swiftandabundant

      @ 113 – I know, Jowles…it is crazy! Its almost as if basketball teams and basketball players don’t live in a perfect vaccum of statistics and that things like their personalities, work ethic, etc…affects their teammates and their performance. What a weird thing to think about! :)

    103. thenamestsam

      It’s funny to me to remember that in 2010-2011 we had a 3-way MVP race between 22 year-old Derrick Rose, 25 year-old Dwight Howard, and 26 year-old Lebron James. Look at what Lebron is still doing and where the other two guys are. Dwight was basically the same age as Lebron and had a legitimate case for being as good or better (more legit than Rose’s case certainly). That’s crazy when you see where they’re at now.

    104. ClashFan

      In other news, 76ers bringing Knox in for a 2nd workout.

      Philly’s daring the Knicks to take Knox. Don’t fall for it, Steve!

      I hope the Knicks can move up to #4, but I fear it might be an overpay and with the intention of getting MPJ. I mean, Mills has overpaid for Timmy, Ron, and to acquire Mudiay.

    105. Knick fan not in NJ at this time

      It’s actually Mitch Kupchak who just traded for Mozgov. He’s the same guy who gave Mozgov the big contract in LA. So besides getting under the tax, another motivation may just be that Kupchak thinks Mozgov is good.

      Mozgov is another example of good Knicks scouting. We hired him as a free agent for very little when no one had ever heard of him.

    106. Zanzibar

      I’m surprised Fizdale would agree to any deal which brings Parsons to the Knicks. Would you want to be on the road half the year knowing an injured Chandler and your hot wife are there in NYC?

      This all feels like the trade up might be very real. Why would NYK meet with Bamba the day before the draft if Grizz didn’t have some interest in their offer? This sounds like NYK wanted to meet Bamba and discuss the possibility of he and KP playing together since that would be an odd tandem.

      If Grizz have equal interest in shedding salary and improving team, they might be able to send McLemore and our #36 pick to a rebuilding team that’s got cap space. That plus adding our 5.5m cash to any trade would be 10m to Memphis. They wouldn’t need McLemore who’s been terrible if they’re taking THJ or Courtney. So I think #9/#36/THJ/Troy/5.5m (or something involving Lee and maybe Lance) might be very attractive to them.

    107. Knick fan not in NJ at this time

      If we give them THJ and number 9 to move up, they get a good player. Maybe overpaid, but still good. I see no reason to give them more.

    108. thenoblefacehumper

      I suppose it’s possible that Steve Mills isn’t the only human being on the planet who thinks THJ is worth $17m AAV. Then again, he probably is.

    109. bobneptune

      Is there any chance Memphis is interested in shipping the #4 for two useful full time players in Lee and THJr +37 to dump Parsons and McLemore?

    110. Stratomatic "Porzingis, Ntilikina, and one of the Bridges are going to lead us to the promised land"

      I just saw a report that several teams are talking to Atlanta about moving up to #3. The Knicks are among them. At this point, it almost has to be for Doncic. They like Doncic and they KNOW KP loves him. If we had a core of KP, Doncic, and Frank we could give up quite a bit to get there and it would make sense if you truly believe Doncic is a star.

    111. JK47

      I love the idea of Bamba, and I think he’d fit next to KP just fine. The amount of length you’d have with Frank, KP and Bamba in your starting lineup would cause opponents some real problems.

      You could basically play KP as a stretch 4 and Bamba as a 5, and then switch them on the other end, because Bamba moves surprisingly well laterally for a guy his size. He’s a good pick and roll defender, not a lumbering type guy that can’t guard stretch 4’s. I think the concern that Wendell Carter might be a bad fit with KP because he’s a bit slow-footed is a legit concern, but Bamba is definitely more fleet-footed than Carter.

      His intangibles are outstanding and he’s by all accounts an intelligent, high-character guy. He was able to block an awful lot of shots in the NCAA without racking up fouls. I like this idea a lot.

    112. BigBlueAL

      I’m all for moving up as long as KP isn’t involved in the deal and more importantly any future 1st rd picks better not be included.

    113. Stratomatic "Porzingis, Ntilikina, and one of the Bridges are going to lead us to the promised land"

      If Doncic wants to come to the Knicks (and I’d be willing to bet anything he wants to come to a big city like NY to play with KP and Frank), he should be threatening to not come to the US for certain teams. That way if the Knicks can grab that 4th pick, there’s a better chance he gets past Atlanta.

    114. thenoblefacehumper

      I recall some people thinking trading KOQ for anything of value wasn’t imperative despite the fact that he racked up wins and was probably gone sooner rather than later. Oops!

    115. Stratomatic "Porzingis, Ntilikina, and one of the Bridges are going to lead us to the promised land"

      I’m all for moving up as long as KP isn’t involved in the deal and more importantly any future 1st rd picks better not be included.

      If it’s 2020 protected, I think you can do that. If KP comes back healthy, we add a legit up and coming star this year, and get further development from some of the young players, we are going to be pretty good in 2020. So if you just protect from the unfortunate injury that screws us again in that year, we wouldn’t be giving up that much if we could get a legit star now.

    116. Stratomatic "Porzingis, Ntilikina, and one of the Bridges are going to lead us to the promised land"

      @132

      KOQ hasn’t gone anywhere yet. If the Knicks draft Bamba, then he’ll probably be gone. Other than that, he has to find out what his market value is. Then the Knicks can decide one way or other what they want to do about him depending on who they draft, what they think of Kanter long term, and what they expect to do with Noah. KOQ wants to stay in NY. He said it a million times. He even tweeted about the possibility of giving us a home discount.

    117. thenoblefacehumper

      Honestly KOQ opting out is probably best for us at this point. He’s worth a handful of wins alone and it gives us a little extra flexibility to try to score an asset. This is all assuming of course that we don’t re-sign him to some hilariously stupid deal that makes no sense given our place on the win curve.

      But yeah, sure does look stupid as hell to not get something for him!

    118. thenoblefacehumper

      KOQ hasn’t gone anywhere yet. If the Knicks draft Bamba, then he’ll probably be gone. Other than that, he has to find out what his market value is. Then the Knicks can decide one way or other what they want to do about him depending on who they draft, what they think of Kanter long term, and what they expect to do with Noah. KOQ wants to stay in NY. He said it a million times. He even tweeted about the possibility of giving us a home discount.

      Had we traded him, we’d have the exact same chance to sign him as we do now. The guy has never signed a big money deal–he’s almost certainly just going to take the most money or at least close to it. The only argument for not trading him involved his value to the Knicks in the second half of the 2017-2018 season.

    119. Bruno Almeida

      I don’t think we have any chance to make a deal with Atlanta, and that sucks. If someone is moving to the 3rd it would most certainly be for Doncic.

      I’d still ship THJ for Bamba really fast but I want to believe we have a true chance at Doncic.

    120. Stratomatic "Porzingis, Ntilikina, and one of the Bridges are going to lead us to the promised land"

      @137

      KOQ is a good player and still young enough to be productive at a high level throughout his next contract. We are going to sign him back UNLESS there is a better value move to make.

    121. Stratomatic "Porzingis, Ntilikina, and one of the Bridges are going to lead us to the promised land"

      Personally, I don’t think The Knicks are all that interested in Bamba. I don’t think he’s a good fit with KP defensively because Bamba is not going to defend on the perimeter well and that’s not exactly KP’s strength either when he’s guarding smaller PFs. I think that meeting with him was just due diligence. I think the Knicks are interested in Doncic and Jarren Jackson. The former for obvious reasons and the latter because he’s also a terrific prospect and better fit. He can guard several positions. If we get a deal done with Memphis, it’s for one of those two.

    122. thenoblefacehumper

      KOQ is a good player and still young enough to be productive at a high level throughout his next contract. We are going to sign him back UNLESS there is a better value move to make.

      And even if, for the sake of argument, we assume this is all true, we still would have the exact same chance to sign him as we do now had we traded him for a second rounder or whatever.

      Call it nitpicking, but guess what? The good organizations nitpick! I cannot comprehend that anyone thinks we’re in position to willingly pass up on literally any asset.

    123. Stratomatic "Porzingis, Ntilikina, and one of the Bridges are going to lead us to the promised land"

      I think there’s very little chance they would have traded him and gotten him back as a free agent later. We’ll see. Maybe I am wrong, but I think they want him back and he wants to come back. This is just to see what options he has and set the price.

    124. hoolahoop

      I hate the idea of Bamba.
      For starters, he weighs about 110 lbs. I don’t think he’ll be durable enough for the NBA. He’s likely to miss more than 20 games a season.
      He has limited offensive skills, duplicates a lot of KP does, And looks like another project.

    125. The Glass Half Rebuilt

      If Doncic is on the board tomorrow night at #4 I really hope the Knicks do whatever it takes to secure his services. Compromising the summer of Kawhi Leonard would suck, but we’re playing in the toughest division in basketball. Philly and Boston have their guys and Toronto has Ujiri. We have to put the best team around Porzingis, and that means making him the 2nd best player on his team. Doncic, Porzingis, Ntilikina, and whoever else is smart enough to join those three players in New York would give us the firepower to compete with Boston, Philly, and Milwaukee until Giannis leaves Milwaukee to join the New York Knicks.

      I hope the Knicks’ FO realizes that the Memphis pick is an absolute necessity if Doncic is available. We need to sell everything for him and never look back.

    126. TheOakmanCometh

      Agreed on Bamba. He’s talented but too duplicative of what Zing does. Neither one of them is going to be able to guard wing 4s like Tatum, Saric, LeBron, Giannis, Tha d Young, etc. This team has so many needs, we can’t be taking guys who give us what we already have.

    127. Grocer

      The only argument for not trading him involved his value to the Knicks in the second half of the 2017-2018 season.

      The other argument would be that nobody was offering anything worthwhile. He’s a good player but it’s not like his position is tremendously valued around the league.

    128. JK47

      We don’t have rebounding, because Porzingis rebounds like shit. So that’s kind of a problem. Pair him with a speedy 4 who is really a 3 in disguise and prepare to get worked over on the boards on a nightly basis.

    129. Bruno Almeida

      @148

      Yeah I don’t see how Bamba replicates Porzingis that much. They’re both tall, block shots and shoot 3s. Bamba is a more agile defender and a much better rebounder and is clearly better suited to playing inside than outside as he has the mechanics to hit 3s but it’s still a work in progress. They could really fit together with Bamba guarding smaller 4s and rebounding and playing as the roll guy on pick and rolls and an offensive rebounder on the other side.

      I get that the league is going small but that doesn’t mean every team needs to try to replicate that. When you’re a bad team like the Knicks you don’t pick a worse player because he’s a better fit or doesn’t duplicate some stuff you already have. We don’t even know how well KP is going to play coming back from injury.

    130. JK47

      I think of it this way. I want my center to be able to do four things:
      1. Score efficiently, get easy baskets
      2. Rebound
      3. Protect the rim
      4. Set screens

      Porzingis does one of the four. He doesn’t really do some of the key things you need your center to do, which is why I believe in the long run for him to be a truly useful player he’ll need a “caddy” to take care of some of that stuff for him.

    131. rama, king of superfluous poppycock

      JK, I agree with you, but I’d note that

      1) chasing 4s has lowered KP’s rebound rates a bit, and if he’s playing the 5 (and bulks up, as it seems he has been doing), he could be adequate there. Much more certain is that

      2) he becomes an efficient scorer; he has shown that he can be, in spurts, and that he understands what efficient scoring is all about, based on the adjustments he said he was making and then did make during the season. As well, he is an above-average 3-point-shooter, and with a modern offense and a GM who doesn’t ask how it’s goink, that will significantly improve his efficiency.

      His rim protection is already elite…but I doubt he’ll ever be able to set a good screen. The muscle should help him rebound, but he’s just too tall and skinny to be a great screener. That didn’t keep Kareem from being an all-time great, though, right?

    132. Brian Cronin

      The other argument would be that nobody was offering anything worthwhile. He’s a good player but it’s not like his position is tremendously valued around the league.

      But what’s worthwhile for a guy who was going to be a free agent this year no matter what? It’s not like having his Bird Rights should help the Knicks any. So even if it was just a shitty second rounder, that’s one more shitty second rounder than they would have that they didn’t have before.

    133. nicos

      I don’t know- the thought of having two mobile rim protectors on the floor at the same time without sacrificing offensive spacing sounds really tempting. Capella might have been able to stay on the floor if when he got beat on the perimeter there was a guy like Bamba or JJJ capable of rotating over and closing off the lane rather than PJ Tucker or Trevor Ariza.

      Is Bamba really going to shoot the three well enough to keep the spacing on offense intact? Is JJJ’s release so slow that guys will be able to cheat off of him without getting burned? I don’t know but if the cost is THJ (or Lee/Lance) plus the 36th pick I’d take the risk.

    134. Knick fan not in NJ at this time

      I almost never watch college basketball, but from what I have read and heard about the prospects, I think it’s worth trading up for Doncic or JJJ. Either one sounds like a really good player with a high floor and the possibility of more. Bamba I honestly don’t think so. The risk is that he turns out to be a defensive specialist who is limited offense. I don’t think it’s worth giving up Hardaway and number 9 for him. Number 9 is likely to be a good player too.

    135. english_knick

      ESPN is talking about the various teams interested in 4. This would make me think we had no chance. But the example discussion the my have is Orlando – memphis asking for 6 and Fournier and Orlando wanting to include biyombo instead.

      Fournier is better than Timmy, but not by miles and his contract is equally bad. And I’d argue a package of Courtney, Thomas and Burke is MUCH better for Memphis than Fournier. More salary flex, at least two very usable pieces… maybe this actually is doable?

    136. Brian Cronin

      I just don’t know why Atlanta would pass on Doncic to make this even a viable thing, ya know?

    137. Knick fan not in NJ at this time

      If Atlanta takes Doncic, then presumably we can get JJJ (assuming Ayton and Bagley are one and two). From what I’ve heard about him, that could be worth it. No one else has impressed me as much. But if Memphis is asking Fournier and number 6, but not getting it, that gives an idea how much they value their pick and then we have stuff to offer that could be competitive with what they might get from Orlando. I think teams are really reluctant to take on Parsons’ contract, so Memphis may not get what they want.

    138. Z-man

      Bamba is the only guy who is virtually GUARANTEED to maintain his trade value based on who he is right now. Doncic may turn out to be a huge liability on defense and his athleticism overall might not translate to stardom. Ayton will be gone for sure, so he’s not even worth discussing, but if he’s not as good on O as advertised, he is never going to be a DPOY candidate. JJJ has a fugly offensive game right now and is all upside. Bagley migt be the safest bet to be a stud two-way player, but not sure if his perimeter game on either end is real.

      At worst, Bamba projects to be Dikembe Motombo with a bit more offense, and that’s an unbelievably high floor. He has multiple DPOYs written all over him. He will be worth multiple #1 picks in the trade market for a long, long time. If he and KP seem redundant, you could trade either one and get a stud at a different position or a couple of lottery picks. So while I’d be thrilled if we trade up and snag Doncic, or wound up with Bagley (I really, really don’t like JJJ!) I would definitely be a bit more nervous about him being the real deal than if we pick Bamba.

    139. Knick fan not in NJ at this time

      Z-man, you could be right. My desires are based on limited information. The only thing I would argue is that while it’s true Doncic might not became a superstar, he’s so good, so young, that, barring injury, he will be a decent player even if not great.

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