Statistical Analysis. Humor. Knicks.

Thursday, October 18, 2018

Knicks Morning News (2018.06.15)

  • [NYPost] Michael Porter’s draft roller coaster takes drastic turns
    (Thursday, June 14, 2018 7:50:03 AM)

    The Great Mystery of Michael Porter Jr. has deepened. Porter’s on-again, off-again workout Friday in Chicago is back on. The Knicks brass, along with a small group of other lottery teams, were on hold because of Porter’s recently strained hip. A source told The Post Porter was to get reevaluated Thursday night and Yahoo reported…

  • [SNY Knicks] Knicks’ Porzingis talks injury return: ‘I have to be smart’
    (Thursday, June 14, 2018 11:25:19 PM)

    Kristaps Porzingis admits he doesn’t have a timetable for when he’ll return to the court for the Knicks.

  • [SNY Knicks] NBA exec doesn’t think hip injury will cause Porter to fall to Knicks
    (Thursday, June 14, 2018 2:09:59 PM)

    Knicks Draft target Michael Porter, Jr. has cancelled his second Pro Day — which was to take place on Friday — due to a hip injury.

  • [SNY Knicks] Knicks’ Dotson seeing, feeling change with David Fizdale in place
    (Thursday, June 14, 2018 10:47:28 AM)

    Knicks SG Damyean Dotson loves what he has seen so far from new head coach David Fizdale.

  • [NYDN] Don Trump’s Jr.’s estranged wife Vanessa deals with drama surrounding her ex’s love life, while putting their five kids first
    (Friday, June 15, 2018 5:00:00 PM)

    Despite putting up a brave face, Vanessa Trump is not handling news of her estranged husband’s new girlfriend very well, sources say.

    On Wednesday, Don Jr. attacked Daily News columnist Linda Stasi over her column calling on Fox News to consider firing pundit Kimberly Guilfoyle for her reluctance…

  • [NYDN] ‘Health inspector’ targets black family at pool with outburst over ‘diseases’
    (Friday, June 15, 2018 2:10:00 AM)

    A white man at a hotel pool singled out a black family for an eye-popping tirade about “diseases” and questioned whether a 5-year-old girl had bathed before going for a swim, according to cell phone footage and the child’s stunned mother.

    Mom Carle Wheeler was vacationing in southern California…

  • [NYDN] The right way to handle Airbnb: An informed solution would cap rental days, not enforce a total ban
    (Friday, June 15, 2018 2:00:00 AM)

    The City Council is considering legislation to further restrict Airbnb in New York City. That’s a bad idea, built on shoddy data.

    Critics argue that Airbnb hosting takes housing off the market and raises rents. There is no convincing or concrete evidence that Airbnb does either.

    In contrast, our…

  • [NYDN] Two doctors accused of sexual harassment have cost the city hospital system nearly $500,000 in settlements
    (Friday, June 15, 2018 1:00:00 AM)

    The city hospital system has paid nearly $500,000 to settle lawsuits accusing two of its high-level doctors of being sexist sickos, a review of public records shows.

    One settlement went to a surgical technician at Lincoln Hospital who accused the hospital’s director of anesthesiology of fondling…

  • [NYDN] Black Lives Matter protester charges NYPD smashed him with bicycle
    (Friday, June 15, 2018 1:00:00 AM)

    A Black Lives Matter activist is planning a $5 million lawsuit, charging city bicycle cops gave him a two-wheeled trouncing during a wrongful arrest three months ago.

    A video of the confrontation shows five cops descending on sign-carrying protester Walter (Hawk) Newsome — with one landing two…

  • [NYDN] Queens man, a father of two, facing deportation to China after arrest at immigration interview
    (Friday, June 15, 2018 1:00:00 AM)

    A Queens man with two young kids and a U.S. citizen wife is facing deportation to his native China — after getting arrested by ICE when he showed up for an interview to get his green card.

    Xiu Qing You, 39, of Flushing, came in for the interview late last month thinking he was on track to finally…

  • [NYDN] Ganging up on police: The NYPD’s gang database is a solid investigative tool
    (Friday, June 15, 2018 1:00:00 AM)

    Never mind the “gang database” alarmism. That the NYPD keeps a list of members of groups thought to be involved in street crime — the better to prevent violence and catch perpetrators — should comfort New Yorkers.

    Fact: Police have built a tool for keeping track of who is in the roughly 500 gangs…

  • [NYDN] Readers sound off on the gang database, NYCHA and the Pizza Rats
    (Friday, June 15, 2018 12:00:00 AM)

    Gang database harms innocents

    Manhattan: NYPD Chief of Detectives Dermot Shea’s June 13 Op-Ed “Keeping up roster of goons keeps city safe” raises more questions than it answers.

    Nowhere in this piece does Shea address gang policing’s racial disparity, and why 99% of New Yorkers in the gang database…

  • [NYDN] Two men busted for trying to impale Florida police officer with tow truck
    (Thursday, June 14, 2018 11:45:00 PM)

    MIAMI — Two men who Florida police say tried to impale an officer with a tow truck are charged with attempted murder.

    The Miami Herald reported Wednesday that 26-year-old Yariel Valdespino Rodriguez and 32-year-old Sergio Aguirre have been arrested in connection to the crime. Miami-Dade police…

  • [NYDN] FBI agent wants to meet bar patron who he accidentally shot while dancing
    (Thursday, June 14, 2018 11:00:00 PM)

    An off-duty FBI agent charged with assault after an accidental shooting while dancing at a Denver bar would like to meet with the man who was injured and is praying for his recovery, the agent’s attorney said Wednesday.

    Chase Bishop appeared in court Wednesday morning, out of custody after turning…

  • [NYDN] Steve Scalise returns to congressional baseball game one year after shooting
    (Thursday, June 14, 2018 11:00:00 PM)

    WASHINGTON — Republicans and Democrats put aside the sectarian hostilities that have increasingly defined this town and came together on the baseball diamond Thursday, a year after bullets from a would-be mass assassin shook Congress to its core.

    Democrats prevailed 21-5 in the 57th Congressional…

  • [NYDN] Boy dies, three more wounded in shooting outside Colorado dental office
    (Thursday, June 14, 2018 10:55:00 PM)

    A child was killed in a parking lot shooting that left two more critically wounded outside a dental office in a Denver suburb Thursday afternoon, officials said.

    The young boy was shot around 3 p.m. local time along with his brother, who is in critical condition. Their mother was also shot and…

  • [NYDN] California mortuary shooting leaves five wounded
    (Thursday, June 14, 2018 10:40:00 PM)

    Five people were shot and wounded at the Chapel of the Chimes mortuary in California late Thursday night.

    Union City police, responding to several 911 calls, arrived at the scene and found three people suffering from gunshot wounds, according to Nixle.com.

    Emergency personnel found two other victims…

  • [NYDN] Cops save underwear-clad man from drowning in choppy East River waters
    (Thursday, June 14, 2018 9:35:00 PM)

    A trio of NYPD officers plucked a man clad only in his underwear from the choppy waters of the East River off Queens on Thursday night, saving him before the current pulled him into the machinery of a nearby Con Edison plant.

    The 26-year-old man was clinging to a sea wall in Astoria, struggling…

  • [NYDN] Mets lose to Diamondbacks, 6-3, as pitching stumbles on night lineup shows signs of life
    (Thursday, June 14, 2018 9:35:00 PM)

    PHOENIX – Michael Conforto, Brandon Nimmo and Amed Rosario each hit solo home runs Thursday, but the Mets’ pitching, which had been stellar through a long offensive drought, could not hold off the Diamondbacks, who won 6-3 at Chase Field.

    The Mets have lost three straight and 11 of their last 12…

  • [NYDN] Michael Cohen asks judge to stop Michael Avenatti from talking about him to press and Twitter
    (Thursday, June 14, 2018 9:15:00 PM)

    Michael Cohen has asked a California judge to sign off on a gag order preventing Stormy Daniels’ publicity-loving lawyer from talking about his legal woes.

    A lawyer for President Trump’s troubled attorney requested a restraining order against Michael Avenatti late Thursday by detailing more than…

  • [NYDN] Hater who screamed anti-white slur, bashed woman’s face with a metal box in Manhattan is hunted by cops
    (Thursday, June 14, 2018 9:15:00 PM)

    A hate-filled attacker yelled an anti-white slur at a woman in Tribeca, then clocked her in the face with a large metal box, police said Thursday.

    “White b—-, take that!” screamed the attacker, who cops described as a black woman in her 30s or 40s, right before clobbering the victim on Warren…

  • [NYDN] Domingo German gets first career win thanks to poise and dominant Yankees bullpen
    (Thursday, June 14, 2018 8:33:00 PM)

    It took 19 games, but Domingo German was finally able to seal his first career major-league win with a kiss.

    Pitching coach Larry Rothschild presented German with a ball in a case at his locker following the Yankees’ 4-3 victory over the Rays on Thursday night at Yankee Stadium.

    German, who overcame…

  • [NYDN] Gary Sanchez flubs foul popup and goes 0-for-2, but Aaron Boone says Yankee catcher looks ‘fresh’
    (Thursday, June 14, 2018 8:30:00 PM)

    Gary Sanchez dropped a foul popup and his batting average fell once again, but Aaron Boone was pleased with the catcher’s return to the lineup for the Yankees’ 4-3 win over the Rays Thursday after Sanchez had a three-day, two-game break. Sanchez went 0-for-2 but did draw two walks and scored on…

  • [NYDN] Nas, Kanye debut ‘Nasir’ at star-studded Queens album release party
    (Thursday, June 14, 2018 8:10:00 PM)

    “Nasir” came home to Queensbridge Thursday night.

    Nas held a listening party for his new album, “Nasir,” about an hour before the clock struck midnight on its official release date, in Queensbridge Park, a stone’s throw from the public housing project where the “Illmatic” rapper grew up.

    Under…

  • [NYDN] Kellen Winslow Jr., ex-Jets TE, arrested on rape, kidnapping charges: report
    (Thursday, June 14, 2018 8:00:00 PM)

    Former Jets tight end Kellen Winslow was arrested in California and charged with multiple sex crimes on Thursday.

    Winslow, who was arrested on a burglary charge last week, now faces two counts of forcible rape, one count of forcible sodomy, one count of forcible oral copulation, one count of kidnapping…

  • [NYDN] Former UM great, ex-NFL player Kellen Winslow II accused of rape
    (Thursday, June 14, 2018 8:00:00 PM)

    Former University of Miami football star and ex-NFL player Kellen Winslow was arrested in California and charged with multiple sex crimes on Thursday.

    Winslow, who was arrested on a burglary charge last week, now faces two counts of forcible rape, one count of forcible sodomy, one count of forcible…

  • [NYDN] Six injured as Florida roller coaster car derails
    (Thursday, June 14, 2018 8:00:00 PM)

    Six people were hospitalized Thursday night after their roller coaster car plunged off the track at a Daytona Beach, Fla., theme park, fire officials said.

    First responders scaled the ride to rescue 10 passengers, some of whom were trapped in the dangling car around 8:30 p.m. at the Daytona Beach…

  • [NYDN] AT&T closes $81 billion mega-merger with Time Warner after court approval
    (Thursday, June 14, 2018 7:25:00 PM)

    WASHINGTON — AT&T completed its $81 billion takeover of Time Warner on Thursday, one of the biggest media deals ever. A federal judge approved the combination just two days earlier over objections by the Trump Justice Department that it would hurt consumers.

    The merger could shape the way consumers…

  • [NYDN] Michael Grimm, Daniel Donovan square off in subdued second debate in race for Staten Island congressional seat
    (Thursday, June 14, 2018 7:20:00 PM)

    This time, they stuck to the issues — mostly.

    Republicans Rep. Daniel Donovan and ex-Rep. Michael Grimm faced off in a more subdued second debate Thursday on Staten Island, punctuated by attempts by Donovan to remind voters that he took over the seat because Grimm pleaded guilty to tax evasion…

  • [NY Newsday] Don Trump’s Jr.’s estranged wife Vanessa deals with drama surrounding her ex’s love life, while putting their five kids first
    (Friday, June 15, 2018 5:00:00 PM)

    Despite putting up a brave face, Vanessa Trump is not handling news of her estranged husband’s new girlfriend very well, sources say.

    On Wednesday, Don Jr. attacked Daily News columnist Linda Stasi over her column calling on Fox News to consider firing pundit Kimberly Guilfoyle for her reluctance…

  • [NY Newsday] ‘Health inspector’ targets black family at pool with outburst over ‘diseases’
    (Friday, June 15, 2018 2:10:00 AM)

    A white man at a hotel pool singled out a black family for an eye-popping tirade about “diseases” and questioned whether a 5-year-old girl had bathed before going for a swim, according to cell phone footage and the child’s stunned mother.

    Mom Carle Wheeler was vacationing in southern California…

  • [NY Newsday] The right way to handle Airbnb: An informed solution would cap rental days, not enforce a total ban
    (Friday, June 15, 2018 2:00:00 AM)

    The City Council is considering legislation to further restrict Airbnb in New York City. That’s a bad idea, built on shoddy data.

    Critics argue that Airbnb hosting takes housing off the market and raises rents. There is no convincing or concrete evidence that Airbnb does either.

    In contrast, our…

  • [NY Newsday] Two doctors accused of sexual harassment have cost the city hospital system nearly $500,000 in settlements
    (Friday, June 15, 2018 1:00:00 AM)

    The city hospital system has paid nearly $500,000 to settle lawsuits accusing two of its high-level doctors of being sexist sickos, a review of public records shows.

    One settlement went to a surgical technician at Lincoln Hospital who accused the hospital’s director of anesthesiology of fondling…

  • [NY Newsday] Black Lives Matter protester charges NYPD smashed him with bicycle
    (Friday, June 15, 2018 1:00:00 AM)

    A Black Lives Matter activist is planning a $5 million lawsuit, charging city bicycle cops gave him a two-wheeled trouncing during a wrongful arrest three months ago.

    A video of the confrontation shows five cops descending on sign-carrying protester Walter (Hawk) Newsome — with one landing two…

  • [NY Newsday] Queens man, a father of two, facing deportation to China after arrest at immigration interview
    (Friday, June 15, 2018 1:00:00 AM)

    A Queens man with two young kids and a U.S. citizen wife is facing deportation to his native China — after getting arrested by ICE when he showed up for an interview to get his green card.

    Xiu Qing You, 39, of Flushing, came in for the interview late last month thinking he was on track to finally…

  • [NY Newsday] Ganging up on police: The NYPD’s gang database is a solid investigative tool
    (Friday, June 15, 2018 1:00:00 AM)

    Never mind the “gang database” alarmism. That the NYPD keeps a list of members of groups thought to be involved in street crime — the better to prevent violence and catch perpetrators — should comfort New Yorkers.

    Fact: Police have built a tool for keeping track of who is in the roughly 500 gangs…

  • [NY Newsday] Readers sound off on the gang database, NYCHA and the Pizza Rats
    (Friday, June 15, 2018 12:00:00 AM)

    Gang database harms innocents

    Manhattan: NYPD Chief of Detectives Dermot Shea’s June 13 Op-Ed “Keeping up roster of goons keeps city safe” raises more questions than it answers.

    Nowhere in this piece does Shea address gang policing’s racial disparity, and why 99% of New Yorkers in the gang database…

  • [NY Newsday] Two men busted for trying to impale Florida police officer with tow truck
    (Thursday, June 14, 2018 11:45:00 PM)

    MIAMI — Two men who Florida police say tried to impale an officer with a tow truck are charged with attempted murder.

    The Miami Herald reported Wednesday that 26-year-old Yariel Valdespino Rodriguez and 32-year-old Sergio Aguirre have been arrested in connection to the crime. Miami-Dade police…

  • [NY Newsday] FBI agent wants to meet bar patron who he accidentally shot while dancing
    (Thursday, June 14, 2018 11:00:00 PM)

    An off-duty FBI agent charged with assault after an accidental shooting while dancing at a Denver bar would like to meet with the man who was injured and is praying for his recovery, the agent’s attorney said Wednesday.

    Chase Bishop appeared in court Wednesday morning, out of custody after turning…

  • [NY Newsday] Steve Scalise returns to congressional baseball game one year after shooting
    (Thursday, June 14, 2018 11:00:00 PM)

    WASHINGTON — Republicans and Democrats put aside the sectarian hostilities that have increasingly defined this town and came together on the baseball diamond Thursday, a year after bullets from a would-be mass assassin shook Congress to its core.

    Democrats prevailed 21-5 in the 57th Congressional…

  • [NY Newsday] Boy dies, three more wounded in shooting outside Colorado dental office
    (Thursday, June 14, 2018 10:55:00 PM)

    A child was killed in a parking lot shooting that left two more critically wounded outside a dental office in a Denver suburb Thursday afternoon, officials said.

    The young boy was shot around 3 p.m. local time along with his brother, who is in critical condition. Their mother was also shot and…

  • [NY Newsday] California mortuary shooting leaves five wounded
    (Thursday, June 14, 2018 10:40:00 PM)

    Five people were shot and wounded at the Chapel of the Chimes mortuary in California late Thursday night.

    Union City police, responding to several 911 calls, arrived at the scene and found three people suffering from gunshot wounds, according to Nixle.com.

    Emergency personnel found two other victims…

  • [NY Newsday] Cops save underwear-clad man from drowning in choppy East River waters
    (Thursday, June 14, 2018 9:35:00 PM)

    A trio of NYPD officers plucked a man clad only in his underwear from the choppy waters of the East River off Queens on Thursday night, saving him before the current pulled him into the machinery of a nearby Con Edison plant.

    The 26-year-old man was clinging to a sea wall in Astoria, struggling…

  • [NY Newsday] Mets lose to Diamondbacks, 6-3, as pitching stumbles on night lineup shows signs of life
    (Thursday, June 14, 2018 9:35:00 PM)

    PHOENIX – Michael Conforto, Brandon Nimmo and Amed Rosario each hit solo home runs Thursday, but the Mets’ pitching, which had been stellar through a long offensive drought, could not hold off the Diamondbacks, who won 6-3 at Chase Field.

    The Mets have lost three straight and 11 of their last 12…

  • [NY Newsday] Michael Cohen asks judge to stop Michael Avenatti from talking about him to press and Twitter
    (Thursday, June 14, 2018 9:15:00 PM)

    Michael Cohen has asked a California judge to sign off on a gag order preventing Stormy Daniels’ publicity-loving lawyer from talking about his legal woes.

    A lawyer for President Trump’s troubled attorney requested a restraining order against Michael Avenatti late Thursday by detailing more than…

  • [NY Newsday] Hater who screamed anti-white slur, bashed woman’s face with a metal box in Manhattan is hunted by cops
    (Thursday, June 14, 2018 9:15:00 PM)

    A hate-filled attacker yelled an anti-white slur at a woman in Tribeca, then clocked her in the face with a large metal box, police said Thursday.

    “White b—-, take that!” screamed the attacker, who cops described as a black woman in her 30s or 40s, right before clobbering the victim on Warren…

  • [NY Newsday] Domingo German gets first career win thanks to poise and dominant Yankees bullpen
    (Thursday, June 14, 2018 8:33:00 PM)

    It took 19 games, but Domingo German was finally able to seal his first career major-league win with a kiss.

    Pitching coach Larry Rothschild presented German with a ball in a case at his locker following the Yankees’ 4-3 victory over the Rays on Thursday night at Yankee Stadium.

    German, who overcame…

  • [NY Newsday] Gary Sanchez flubs foul popup and goes 0-for-2, but Aaron Boone says Yankee catcher looks ‘fresh’
    (Thursday, June 14, 2018 8:30:00 PM)

    Gary Sanchez dropped a foul popup and his batting average fell once again, but Aaron Boone was pleased with the catcher’s return to the lineup for the Yankees’ 4-3 win over the Rays Thursday after Sanchez had a three-day, two-game break. Sanchez went 0-for-2 but did draw two walks and scored on…

  • [NY Newsday] Nas, Kanye debut ‘Nasir’ at star-studded Queens album release party
    (Thursday, June 14, 2018 8:10:00 PM)

    “Nasir” came home to Queensbridge Thursday night.

    Nas held a listening party for his new album, “Nasir,” about an hour before the clock struck midnight on its official release date, in Queensbridge Park, a stone’s throw from the public housing project where the “Illmatic” rapper grew up.

    Under…

  • [NY Newsday] Kellen Winslow Jr., ex-Jets TE, arrested on rape, kidnapping charges: report
    (Thursday, June 14, 2018 8:00:00 PM)

    Former Jets tight end Kellen Winslow was arrested in California and charged with multiple sex crimes on Thursday.

    Winslow, who was arrested on a burglary charge last week, now faces two counts of forcible rape, one count of forcible sodomy, one count of forcible oral copulation, one count of kidnapping…

  • [NY Newsday] Former UM great, ex-NFL player Kellen Winslow II accused of rape
    (Thursday, June 14, 2018 8:00:00 PM)

    Former University of Miami football star and ex-NFL player Kellen Winslow was arrested in California and charged with multiple sex crimes on Thursday.

    Winslow, who was arrested on a burglary charge last week, now faces two counts of forcible rape, one count of forcible sodomy, one count of forcible…

  • [NY Newsday] Six injured as Florida roller coaster car derails
    (Thursday, June 14, 2018 8:00:00 PM)

    Six people were hospitalized Thursday night after their roller coaster car plunged off the track at a Daytona Beach, Fla., theme park, fire officials said.

    First responders scaled the ride to rescue 10 passengers, some of whom were trapped in the dangling car around 8:30 p.m. at the Daytona Beach…

  • [NY Newsday] AT&T closes $81 billion mega-merger with Time Warner after court approval
    (Thursday, June 14, 2018 7:25:00 PM)

    WASHINGTON — AT&T completed its $81 billion takeover of Time Warner on Thursday, one of the biggest media deals ever. A federal judge approved the combination just two days earlier over objections by the Trump Justice Department that it would hurt consumers.

    The merger could shape the way consumers…

  • [NY Newsday] Michael Grimm, Daniel Donovan square off in subdued second debate in race for Staten Island congressional seat
    (Thursday, June 14, 2018 7:20:00 PM)

    This time, they stuck to the issues — mostly.

    Republicans Rep. Daniel Donovan and ex-Rep. Michael Grimm faced off in a more subdued second debate Thursday on Staten Island, punctuated by attempts by Donovan to remind voters that he took over the seat because Grimm pleaded guilty to tax evasion…

  • [NYTimes] Anne Donovan, a Power in Women’s Basketball, Dies at 56
    (Thursday, June 14, 2018 11:25:58 PM)

    A dominating college player in the early 1980s, she went on to win championships as a coach in the W.N.B.A. and the Summer Olympics.

  • 115 comments on “Knicks Morning News (2018.06.15)

    1. Frank

      I find the Memphis #4 pick discussion fascinating. If this is actually a real rumor, and Memphis is actually interested in trying to make the playoffs this year, I actually sorta think that the Knicks might be the most reasonable trade partner. Boston, Phoenix, and I guess Philly probably have the most trade assets in terms of draft capital. But– Boston is going to have enough trouble signing their guys without adding Parsons’ contract– so they’re out. Phoenix doesn’t have any players they could send back with the draft picks that would help Memphis win, and their earliest available pick isn’t until #16. Philly could send #10 this year but they are big fish hunting in free agency this year and obviously are trying to contend next year, so it seems unlikely they’d eat Parsons’s contract.

      In terms of teams between #4 and #9, I don’t imagine Dallas wants Parsons’s contract just to move up 1 spot. Orlando could perhaps eat the Parsons contract and sign/trade Aaron Gordon (not sure if that is legal before 7/1?) but that seems like a very backwards step for them to move up 2 spots especially if they’ve got their eye on Trae Young who will likely be available for them at 6. Chicago has cap space and could send back Justin Holiday and Asik’s $ I guess, but it seems likely they will want to be players in the FA market next summer. Cleveland – zero chance.

      We could send Lee (~12.5MM/year x 2y) + Lance (7.1MM + 1MM next year guaranteed) + 9 + 36 for Parsons + 4. That would save MEM ~4.5MM this year and ~12MM next year (which could give them near max-space in summer of 2020, not that they are FA destination), and add 2 rotations guys to their team, while adding a 2018 mid-lottery pick and a premium 2nd round pick. Heck, I’d even send them a lottery protected 2019 pick that turns into 2 seconds if not conveyed by 2020.

      I would only do that if one of Ayton/Doncic/JJJ were still on the board, but it’s not that bad…

    2. english_knick

      I agree we could potentially put together an ok package. I read Dallas or Atlanta might be keen, and they could take back salary without Memphis needing to take much back. But if Memphis is also looking for usable players, we could put an ok package together. Burke may also have value as a backup pg.

      My ideal would be we try to find a way to get denver’s pick too, and either try to include that instead of 9 in a Memphis deal or, at least, end up with 4 and 14. But I very much doubt we have the assets to pull off both.

      Those who have argued there is no opportunity cost to handing out big contracts – this is why you’re wrong.

    3. The Glass Half Rebuilt

      I’m not sure there’s a better deal for what Memphis wants than the 4 and Chandler Parsons for Trey Burke, Tim Hardaway Jr, and the #9 overall selection. To make the salaries work/give them depth they could have Courtney Lee, and then they’d have Conley, Hardaway Jr, Mikal Bridges, JaMychal Green, Marc Gasol, Trey Burke, and Courtney Lee as a top 7. That’s a playoff team if they stay healthy, and there’s a good amount of youth to keep up their legacy of 45 win seasons.

      If I’m the Knicks I’m ironing out a deal for the Grizzlies #4 pick but I don’t pull it off until draft night and Doncic is still on the board. It doesn’t make sense for us to trade up for Jarren Jackson Jr or Marvin Bagley. If the top 3 of the draft actually goes Ayton, Bagley, Jackson Jr, then you call Memphis and execute the trade. Doncic is the only player worth it for New York, so it would be interesting to see how things unfold draft night.

    4. english_knick

      Agree you do nothing until draft night. If Doncic is there you have to try to make that move. Even if not there are some enticing options.

      Clearly the dream is to hang on to 9 as well somehow. But surely there’s nothing we have (and would give up) that would entoce Memphis to go there?

    5. Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada

      Memphis, being a small market team, pretty desperately wants to avoid the luxury tax and make the playoffs in order to ensure some modicum of profitability. Those business incentives, when coupled with the fact that Chris Wallace is actually a pretty bad GM who will be on the hot seat this season, might keep the door open to us keeping the 9 pick, if we’re savvy and Memphis is desperate enough. It’s an unlikely but live possibility.

    6. Bruno Almeida

      If we don’t have to give up the 9th, hell trade anyone except KP and Frank for it even if Doncic won’t be available. If he is, then I’d trade the 9th too if that’s necessary to close the deal.

    7. Zanzibar

      Take a look at THIS REPORT showing the top 6 by BPM 19yo freshmen at any position having played >= 300 minutes. One of the 6 is JJJ and 4 of the other 5 are considered elite NBA players. Noel is not elite but he’s posted nice stats and his problem is his head not his game.

      How do you not take the very young JJJ when you look at that? In fact, you should take this Garnett- in-the-making instead of Doncic whose shooting and defense is a question mark. If JJJ is there at #4, you offer some combination of THJ/Courtney/Lance for Parsons/#9. It’s tough to find a quality 4/5 modern NBA player and he’d be near perfect next to KP. Re-sign KOQ to a cheap deal and the front court of KP/JJJ/KOQ/Kornet is set for the future. We’d have a high draft pick in 2019 and oodles of cap space to spend on Kyrie and others after watching Frank/Burke/Dotson/Troy for a year.

    8. ess-dog

      Honestly, the Sixers make more sense for that #4 pick. They have more cap space and better players to offer in return. Imagine them putting Bagley or Jackson Jr. next to Embiid? Or even maybe Doncic??

      I like Covington, but I’d trade the #10 and Cov for another potential star. Then Memphis can add Covington and Miles or Mikal at 10 while shedding a lot of salary. The Bulls also have a better offer with Portis/LaVine and #7.

    9. Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada

      The difference between Garnett and JJJr is that Garnett could actually dribble and pass and was maybe the best defender at the PF position ever (along w Duncan). JJJr. is not going to be KG even though he may be quite good. He’s more like a Capela who’s worse at rolling but can shoot given space.

      For the 1000th time, Doncic is far and away the best prospect in the draft. There is almost no coherent argument to the contrary. His defense is not actually a question mark and he posts positive defensive stats. The “Luka isn’t athletic” criticism is a myth based on a flawed idea if athleticism centered around no stepvert and sprint speed times as opposed to skill based athleticism. He can still dunk and jump, no doesn’t need to be Russell Westbrook. The questions he has are quickness, which could improve given an NBA level training program and is already something he makes up for by being built like a truck; and his 3pt shot, whose percentages are lower than they should be because he routinely took extremely high degree of difficulty stepback 3s. Fix the shot selection (or let him work on those step backs until he gets good at them) and you have at least a 35% 3 point shooter, if not better.

      Since you mentioned BPM numbers, if you put Doncic in the NCAA he’d post maybe the single greatest NCAA season of all time (along with Michael Beasley).

    10. Donnie Walsh

      , I actually sorta think that the Knicks might be the most reasonable trade partner.

      The Clippers can offer Tobias Harris, Boban, #12 and/or #13. That would give Memphis a more useful player to play the Parson’s position between Gasol and Conoley (on a shorter, cheaper contract), and a lottery pick or two.

      In fact, the Clips have a plethora of decently priced vets to package with their multiple picks. So, IF Memphis is serious, and IF the Clips want the #4, they can certainly beat a Hardaway and Mudiay package.

    11. mase

      doncic will not be available at #4, both phx and sac have front offices from former yugoslavia and are both ready to pull the trigger on him

    12. Stratomatic "Porzingis, Ntilikina, and one of the Bridges are going to lead us to the promised land"

      Most likely, nothing is going to come of this Memphis deal for NY using Lee or anyone else. But this is an example of why it’s sometimes not wise to dump assets for less than they are worth when they don’t fit. Lee is not a player that fits NY’s timetable, but he’s a player that could still help a playoff team. His contract is not burdensome or unfair. If he can become part of a deal (even to match salaries) that lands us something really good, that would have made it worth waiting rather than getting trash for him. We may wind up with less than we could have gotten or he may just sit on the roster until his contract expires and we get cap space for him. But we may have an opportunity to move up in the draft or get a player we want at some point too. You just never know how opportunities are going to shake out. But I’d rather not dump assets for less than they are worth.

    13. Ingmarrrr

      The Knicks will not get the #4 for the #9 and a pile of garbage. Add Frank for the #5, as I believe Dallas was genuinely interested last year, and maybe it happens. The questions is, would you do it for Doncic? For Bamba?

    14. Stratomatic "Porzingis, Ntilikina, and one of the Bridges are going to lead us to the promised land"

      If Knicks scouts are that sure of Doncic and he’s available, I would be open to at least considering trading #9 and a protected future 1st rounder in 2020. If we get him and keep our potential lottery pick next year, we’ll already have a pretty good core of young players and should be battling for the playoffs in 2020 anyway.

      As far as I am concerned, Frank is off limits unless I have a mortal lock of a top all star coming back. Our core after the draft should be KP, Frank, and one more young potential star or lock down player.

    15. Cock Jowles, #1 Purveyor of Wanton Chuckery

      If Doncic is inexplicably available at #5 and the Knicks won’t trade Ntilikina for him, that’s a sign we should abandon this team forever.

    16. ess-dog

      Why would Dallas not just take Doncic? But also, why won’t they trade friggin Harrison Barnes for the 4?! That’s just dumb. They could have a Doncic/Bamba/DSJr core.

    17. Stratomatic "Porzingis, Ntilikina, and one of the Bridges are going to lead us to the promised land"

      If Doncic is inexplicably available at #5 and the Knicks won’t trade Ntilikina for him, that’s a sign we should abandon this team forever.

      It wouldn’t be Frank for Doncic straight up.

      It would be Frank + #9 for Doncic.

      Frank has a very good chance to become an “elite” defender at an important position. If he is only “average” on offense (and it’s too early to think that’s his cap), that would make him a VERY valuable player even though many models wouldn’t like him much.

      Is Doncic going to be elite on both sides?

      I doubt it on defense.

    18. Frank

      The Knicks will not get the #4 for the #9 and a pile of garbage. Add Frank for the #5, as I believe Dallas was genuinely interested last year, and maybe it happens. The questions is, would you do it for Doncic? For Bamba?

      Correction – #4 plus one of the worst contracts in the NBA for the #9 and some useful players on reasonable contracts.

      Parsons has $50MM left on his contract. Nate Duncan / Danny Leroux have a general rule that $20MM = 1 first round pick. That means that dumping that contract is worth 2+ 1st round picks.

      Think about what we would have to include in a trade for a team to take Noah off our hands. Parsons’s contract is worse than Noah’s by $6MM/year, and Noah at least has a chance of playing.

      I forgot about the Clips – they would be a reasonable trade partner, although #9 vs #12 is a big difference.

    19. Cock Jowles, #1 Purveyor of Wanton Chuckery

      Yeah, that’s a pretty easy trade for me. Frank could end up being Jae Crowder, but he’s probably not going to be Kawhi Leonard. I’d take the Euroleague MVP.

    20. iserp

      My guess is that if Doncic falls to Memphis, then there is no deal. Memphis will simply draft Doncic and that’s it. He fits into what they need, and he is hardly a project, Luka is good right now.

      So if we want Doncic at #4, we should trade up now with all the risks.

    21. iserp

      Well, “risks”, being #4 with the ability to choose among many prospects is a good position to be.

    22. Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada

      @22

      I think Carter and Young are worth trading up for as well if the price is just 9 + THJr + Mudiay, and since one of them or Doncic is nigh guaranteed to be there, id do the trade now and see who we get on draft night. If they want the 36 that’d give me pause though and I’d have to think about it but would still do it probably.

      Imagine if we kept the number 9? We’d be able to draft Luka/Carter AND Zhaire Smith, SGA, or Mikal as the SG replacement for THJr. That’s wishful thinking currently however.

    23. Ben R

      I agree you trade up now and risk it. If Doncic is gone we still get a very good player in JJJ or Bagley.

      I think Lee + Mudiay + #9 + next years 1st top 5 protected for Parsons +#4 might get it done.

    24. Cock Jowles, #1 Purveyor of Wanton Chuckery

      I think Lee + Mudiay + #9 + next years 1st top 5 protected for Parsons +#4 might get it done.

      Definitely not giving up another 1st rounder to move up five slots. The Knicks need bodies.

    25. Ben R

      I wouldn’t want to move a future pick but for a very good chance at Doncic I think it’s worth it. Plus I’d rather keep Frank than a top-five protected pick. Most likely a top-five protected pick will end up somewhere in the mid to late lottery and I’d rather have Frank than a similar player two years from now.

    26. Zanzibar

      When you’re dealing in crap shoots, 2 > 1 unless you’re talking a surefire #1 like KAT or Davis so Frank + Carter > Doncic . How many European players other than bigs like Pau and Dirk have been NBA stars? Remember all of the Mirotic hype when we were talking about a Melo S&T to Chicago? Sure there’s Manu but that’s one player and Doncic isn’t even left-handed. My top two in this draft would be JJJ and Doncic in that order but I would be very worried about Doncic for the reasons I mentioned earlier. His instincts and feel for the game a la Bird and Manu mitigate those to a degree but don’t eliminate them.

    27. Cock Jowles, #1 Purveyor of Wanton Chuckery

      How many European players other than bigs like Pau and Dirk have been NBA stars?

      How many European players have won Euroleague MVP as a teenager?

    28. TheOakmanCometh

      Frank has a very good chance to become an “elite” defender at an important position. If he is only “average” on offense (and it’s too early to think that’s his cap), that would make him a VERY valuable player even though many models wouldn’t like him much.

      Frank would have to improve by leaps and bounds to be average on offense. If you offered me “average-offense-elite-defense” as his ultimate destiny, I sign for it right now.

    29. TheOakmanCometh

      I’m comfortable giving up Frank in a Doncic trade, but absolutely not any future picks, unless they’re lottery protected. This team is not in position to be giving up bites at the apple.

    30. ess-dog

      Yeah, my preference would be to trade down with the Clips, which they might be into if they can’t move up above us, especially if Porter is available at 9.

      Porter or Mikal could pan out, but I’d rather take two shots at future starters with Knox and Smith types.

    31. ess-dog

      Wouldn’t surprise me at all if they had that trade ready to go with Knox and Walker in mind at 12 and 13.

    32. SJK

      Knox and Smith are arguably just as risky as Porter with lower ceilings. Idk how you quantify injury-based risk vs. might not develop into a good player risk, but there’s absolutely no indication that Knox or Smith will develop into a “future starter.”

    33. Ben R

      I think Frank is a bite at the apple. I would rather have Frank than anyone in this draft after the top 8 and this is a deep draft. Frank’s defensive potential is much better than Mikal’s and he will probably be a similar shooter in a couple years and is already a better passer and ball handler. Frank has a long way to go to be a PG but his passing and ball handling are fine if he’s a wing and he has similar size to Mikal.

      A trade down with LA seems like a pipedream. The only way it seems even remotely possible is if Young, Porter or Bamba fall and that seems less likely by the day. Plus if any of them fall I think we just take them and walk away happy.

    34. Zanzibar

      How many European players have won Euroleague MVP as a teenager?

      Let’s look at the Euroleague MVPs since 2005: Theo Papaloukas, Ramunas Šiškauskas, Juan Carlos Navarro, Miloš Teodosic, Dimitris Diamantidis, Andrei Kirilenko, Vassilis Spanoulis, Sergio Rodríguez, Nemanja Bjelica, Nando de Colo, Sergio Llull, and Luka. That list should give anyone pause in projecting future Doncic greatness especially since he’s more in the mold of Teodisic and ::gulp:: Sergio Rodriguez. Sure age is an important consideration but it’s hard to get too hyped up when you look at the quality of those previous MVPs. And, speaking of age, you don’t appear to give much weight to Frank finishing 1st in PnR defense in the NBA at the age of 19 since you’re willing to throw him in any Doncic deal.

    35. ess-dog

      Well if it were me, I’d ideally go with one of Smith/Sexton at 12 and one of Williams/Miles Bridges at 13, although I think Miles will be gone by then.

      I just think based on reports, the Knicks seem to really like Knox and Walker – perhaps my two least favorite options. I also think they like Anfernee Simons. But this “move down” plan is probably one of many that they could implement on draft day. They probably have a few “move up” plans and “stand pat” plans, too.

    36. Cock Jowles, #1 Purveyor of Wanton Chuckery

      Sure age is an important consideration but it’s hard to get too hyped up when you look at the quality of those previous MVPs.

      If age isn’t the most important consideration for a 19-year-old MVP, I don’t know what to tell you. We’re going to sit here and say Frank is a potential All-Defense player because he’s 19 and there’s nowhere to go but up, but Doncic is a goddamn Euroleague MVP having played most of the season at age 18.

      If you had a freshman in the NCAA who won Player of the Year, Finals Four MOP and a championship, you’d call him Anthony Davis and he’d go #1 overall. Doncic did that in a superior league against superior talent. The anti-Euro bias is downright silly.

    37. Cock Jowles, #1 Purveyor of Wanton Chuckery

      Real Madrid
      2013 Under–14 Ciutat de l’Hospitalet Tournament: Champion
      2013 Under–14 Minicopa ACB of Vitoria-Gasteiz: Winner
      2013 Under–14 Spain Championship: Champion
      2014 Under–18 Madrid Junior Championship: Champion
      2015 Under–18 Madrid Junior Championship: Champion
      2015 Under–18 Ciutat De L’Hospitalet Tournament (ANGT): Champion
      2015 Under–18 Spain Championship: Champion
      2015 Under–18 Euroleague Basketball Next Generation Tournament: Champion
      Individual awards
      2012 U–13 Lido di Roma Tournament with Olimpija Ljubljana: MVP
      2013 U–14 Ciutat de l’Hospitalet Tournament: MVP
      2013 U–14 Minicopa ACB of Vitoria-Gasteiz: MVP
      2013 U–16 Budapest International Tournament: MVP
      2013 U–16 Villa de la Laguna Tournament: MVP[59]
      2013 U–16 EA7 Emporio Armani Tournament: MVP
      2014 U–16 Spain Championship: MVP[60]
      2015 U–18 Ciutat De L’Hospitalet Tournament (ANGT): All-Tournament Team
      2015 U-18 Madrid Junior Championship: MVP
      2015 U–18 Spain Championship: MVP
      2015 U–18 Euroleague Basketball Next Generation Tournament: MVP
      Senior level
      Real Madrid
      EuroLeague Champion: 2017-18
      2× Liga ACB (Spanish League) Champion: 2014-15, 2015-16
      2× Copa Del Rey (Spanish King’s Cup) Winner: 2016, 2017
      FIBA Intercontinental Cup Champion: 2015
      Individual awards
      EuroLeague MVP: 2017/2018
      EuroLeague Final Four MVP: 2017/2018
      All-EuroLeague First Team: 2017-18
      2× EuroLeague Rising Star: 2017, 2018
      Spanish League Best Young Player: 2017
      2× Spanish League All-Young Players Team: 2016, 2017
      Slovenian national team
      FIBA EuroBasket 2017: Gold
      FIBA EuroBasket All-Tournament Team: 2017

      If this guy shows up in the NBA and pulls a Jimmer, I can safely say that the optimal draft strategy is to use a random number generator and pray to the god of your choosing.

    38. thenoblefacehumper

      Off the top of my head, Sixers, Lakers, Raptors, and Celtics (ugh) have the assets to make a play for Kawhi. With one year left on his desk though he can dictate a lot of what happens. I hope for the sake of the NBA that he finds himself on a team that can a) challenge the Warriors and b) is not the Celtics.

    39. Ben R

      I’d pick Doncic 1st every day. He is as close to a lock as we have ever seen in a 19-year-old. There are concerns about his athleticism and that he is closer to his ceiling than a couple of the other players but we’re talking about an almost surefire very good player. I think one or two of the really high ceiling guys (Ayton, JJJ, Bamba, Young, Porter) will probably end up better but Doncic has by far the highest floor and I’ll be shocked if he’s not one of the top 3 players from this draft and an all-star in five years, and at least two of those other five will be serious disappointments.

    40. Cock Jowles, #1 Purveyor of Wanton Chuckery

      I swear to god if the Celtics get a healthy Kawhi for Jaylen Brown and a future first–

      Irving, Hayward, Kawhi, Tatum, Horford? No. Please god no.

    41. alsep73

      Sounds like Kawhi wants the Lakers. LeBron + Kawhi alone would be an incredible thing. How many of LA’s young assets would San Antonio demand to make this work? And is anyone else as excited as I am about the idea of LaVar Ball’s meal ticket winding up in such a rinky-dink market?

    42. Cock Jowles, #1 Purveyor of Wanton Chuckery

      Who looks more like a mumble rapper: Brandon Ingram or Elfrid Payton (pre-haircut)?

    43. The Glass Half Rebuilt

      @45 there’s a lot of chatter about how Ainge simply cannot trade Gordon Hayward. Agents across the league would blackball the Celtics and nobody would trust that organization if Hayward, a max player, gets traded a year into his deal and a year after they got rid of Isaiah Thomas.

    44. Jack Bauer

      Those are some Fascinating trade scenarios with Memphis mentioned above. But seriously, if you were in their shoes would you really consider doing any of those deals? I don’t think they are that inept, desperate, or value the relative dreck in those proposed trades that highly.

      As it gets closer I have this sinking feeling we will be very underwhelmed with what the Knicks do on draft day. With that in mind I am liking the safe Mikal Bridges pick more and more. It eliminates the chances of doing something stupid because Knicks.

    45. The Glass Half Rebuilt

      Memphis wants to trade Parsons and will attach the #4 pick in order to do it.

      Sacramento wants to trade the #2 pick and is desperate for a star player (Bagley and Doncic have star written all over them but I digress).

      Kawhi Leonard is interested in either LA or New York (and I cannot see Greg Poppovich trading his best player in conference).

      I hope the Knicks do something to make me proud.

    46. The Glass Half Rebuilt

      @48 If I’m Memphis and my goal is to compete right away and I know Luka Doncic will not be a happy camper in my city, Tim Hardaway Jr, the #9 pick, and a top 7 protected 2019 that become a top 12 protected 2020 pick is what I’m expecting from New York. Conley, Hardaway Jr, Mikal Bridges, JaMychal Green, and Marc Gasol is a playoff line up, and then I still have my fair share of young guys in the stable to develop.

    47. alsep73

      I can’t imagine the Knicks getting Kawhi, given our relatively bare cupboard, unless one of two things , and probably both of them, happens:

      1)Kawhi says the Knicks are the only team he wants to play for (and why would he, given the other options?), or

      2)KP is the centerpiece of such a deal.

    48. Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada

      Injured KP and a pick for injured expiring Kawhi sounds fairish

      That said if he’s so intent on leaving why don’t we just wait til FA since he’s expiring? Is it because he wants to resign w whatever team he’s traded to? Does he get more guaranteed money if he does?

    49. alsep73

      He is done with being in San Antonio. Plus, under the CBA, wouldn’t he make more a lot more money if he was traded and then re-signed with his new team than if he joined them as a UFA in a year?

    50. thenoblefacehumper

      A perfectly safe, competent draft night takeaway looks like Mikal Bridges and Bruce Brown to me. That would be a nice mix of upside and relative assurance of at least some production.

    51. Stratomatic "Porzingis, Ntilikina, and one of the Bridges are going to lead us to the promised land"

      Definitely not giving up another 1st rounder to move up five slots. The Knicks need bodies.

      I don’t get this.

      You are not willing to give up #9 and a top 5 protected next year but you are willing to give up the #9 and Frank without blinking. I know you don’t like Frank as much as I do, but I think the rest of the league does. I think you do both or neither.

    52. Stratomatic "Porzingis, Ntilikina, and one of the Bridges are going to lead us to the promised land"

      Frank would have to improve by leaps and bounds to be average on offense. If you offered me “average-offense-elite-defense” as his ultimate destiny, I sign for it right now.

      I don’t often make projections because there’s no point in embarrassing myself when it comes to 19 year old players. However, I’ll make an exception in Frank’s case.

      IMO Frank is a mortal lock to be an ABOVE average offensive player and top defensive player in as soon as 2 years but max 4 years.

      Some guys have the physical tools but don’t have the IQ or work ethic. Some guys have the IQ and work ethic but don’t have the physical tools. Frank has the perfect body, enough athleticism, and an over the top work ethic and basketball IQ. In my life experience, people like that NEVER fail unless injury derails them. He’s going to be a VERY good basketball player. In my mind, he’s almost untouchable unless you are getting a star back.

    53. Ntilakilla

      IMO Frank is a mortal lock to be an ABOVE average offensive player and top defensive player in as soon as 2 years but max 4 years. Some guys have the physical tools but don’t have the IQ or work ethic. Some guys have the IQ and work ethic but don’t have the physical tools. Frank has the perfect body, enough athleticism, and an over the top work ethic and basketball IQ. In my life experience, people like that NEVER fail unless injury derails them. He’s going to be a VERY good basketball player. In my mind, he’s almost untouchable unless you are getting a star back.

      And I thought I was bullish on Frank. Wow.

    54. BigBlueAL

      Strat whatever your’e smoking that’s making you think Frank will be good on offense when he is one of the worst offensive basketball players in the NBA I want to smoke some of it too.

    55. The Glass Half Rebuilt

      If Iman Shumpert never tore his ACL or had ambitions of being a rapper, he would have been a damn good basketball player. So Frank Ntilikina is Iman Shumpert without the distractions and set backs? You can sign me up yesterday.

    56. mase

      He’s better than iman defensively already, but the comparison isn’t crazy. Iman never amounted to be a two way player. Frank could fail those expectations as well but he isn’t a knuckle head like iman
      Was.

    57. Stratomatic "Porzingis, Ntilikina, and one of the Bridges are going to lead us to the promised land"

      Strat whatever your’e smoking that’s making you think Frank will be good on offense when he is one of the worst offensive basketball players in the NBA I want to smoke some of it too.

      If Iman Shumpert never tore his ACL or had ambitions of being a rapper, he would have been a damn good basketball player.

      I’m not smoking anything right now, but I plan on drinking Maker’s Mark after 5:00. Who knows what I’ll think by 9:00. I may want SA to include a pick if they want us to take Khawi for Frank. :-)

      Frank will be a much better player than Shumpert ever had a chance to become.

    58. The Glass Half Rebuilt

      @63 I don’t think it’s fair to call Iman Shumpert a knucklehead either. He’s a man of many interests and he was good enough at basketball for it to get him a scholarship at Georgia Tech. He’s married, actually has a talent for rapping, he’s into fashion, and above all else he stays out of trouble and was good enough to win a championship against the 73-9 Golden State Warriors. He broke my heart as a Knicks fan because he should be every bit as good a basketball player as Paul George and Jimmy Butler, but there’s a difference between not having the focus to be a good NBA basketball player and being a knucklehead.

    59. Ntilakilla

      It will never happen and I’m in the minority but I’d rather trade KP and that #9 to get Doncic. We’re so behind in our rebuild and I have so many reserves at KP’s stamina/durability as a star/max contract player. I’d rather replace him with Doncic, let Frank develop and keep accumulating high picks for the next few years of Warriors dominance than spending those years trying clear space to make a big free agent splash for a team to build around KP.

    60. TheOakmanCometh

      IMO Frank is a mortal lock to be an ABOVE average offensive player and top defensive player in as soon as 2 years but max 4 years.

      Last year Frank finished 663rd out of 664 players in Offensive Win Shares, with -2.0. Here is the complete list of players who have had -2 OWS or worse in the last 20 years.

      Adam Morrison
      Antoine Walker (one year before retirement)
      Rodney White
      Nikoloz Tskitishvili
      Junior Harrington
      Darius Miles
      Michael Olawakandi (twice)
      Dickey Simpkins
      Randy Brown
      Emmanuel Mudiay
      Dennis Smith Jr
      Lance Stephenson
      Michael Carter-Williams
      Kevin Seraphin
      Michael Beasley

      Not only did none of those guys go on to become above average offensive players, they almost all remained absolutely putrid offensive players (with Dennis Smith TBD). So if you want to bet on Frank bucking every single case in recent history, I wish you a lot of luck.

    61. Ntilakilla

      @68

      I’m curious, how old were each of these players? You mention Walker’s age to disqualify him, but no one else’s age is mentioned.

    62. Donnie Walsh

      I’m curious, how old were each of these players? You mention Walker’s age to disqualify him, but no one else’s age is mentioned.

      I mean, how old can any of them be? Randy Brown? Dickinson Simpkins? If you’re terrible when you’re young, you don’t really get a chance to grow old in this league.

    63. ptmilo

      Here is the complete list of players who have had -2 OWS or worse in the last 20 year

      if you don’t cut it off at 20 years and start at -1.9 you also get young Karl Malone -2.4, Cliff Robinson -1.9 and Demarcus Cousins -2.0

    64. The Glass Half Rebuilt

      @67 if trading KP was a thing you could just trade him to Sacramento and keep the #9 pick and Frank Ntilikina. Sacramento desperately wants a superstar.

    65. Ntilakilla

      I mean, how old can any of them be? Randy Brown? Dickinson Simpkins? If you’re terrible when you’re young, you don’t really get a chance to grow old in this league.

      I ask because there is a substantive difference in developmental maturity between a 19 year old a 21/22 year old.

    66. Ntilakilla

      @67 if trading KP was a thing you could just trade him to Sacramento and keep the #9 pick and Frank Ntilikina. Sacramento desperately wants a superstar.

      I would do that tomorrow. And, yes, fans plus the media would cry, whine and throw fits like they did during the Melo controversy. It wouldn’t rattle me a bit. In NYC you have to rise above the popularity contest which rules sports culture here to make the best decisions for your franchise win, lose or draw. Doncic, Frank, + Bridges would give us lots multi-positional options to build upon.

    67. Brian Cronin

      I’d trade KP for Doncic straight up, as well. I like KP, but Doncic is going to be special and he’s closer to the Knicks’ win curve.

    68. Brian Cronin

      I think players should be able to use whatever power they have to go wherever they want, but it still disappoints me that Kawhi Leonard has a problem with the Spurs. I know it sounds dumb, but I almost wish something bad would come out about the Spurs to just make his thinking make more sense.

    69. Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada

      I think KP would nix that by telling Sacramento that he would refuse to re-sign with them. He’s already shown a willingness to play hardball with FOs and Janis has intimated that him taking the extension is likely but not a foregone conclusion. Who the fuck wants to slave away in Sacramento for 5 years? No one, that’s who. If I was reasonably confident in my health or irrationally exuberant like KP might be, I’d consider leaving that 20m guaranteed on the table for the opportunity to not play for Knicks West, except it’s Sacramento instead of NYC.

      I’d trade KP for Doncic, straight up. But you know what would be nicer? KP and Doncic on the same team, which might happen if the Knicks are aggressive and drop a line to Doncic that if he plays hardball and purposefully drops to 4, they’ll trade up for him. That might be tampering (idk the rules), but I’m sure those under the table rookie and FA deals happen more often than the NBA would like to admit.

    70. ptmilo

      Sacramento is not trading the 2 straight up for a player with a torn ACL who is about to miss most of the last year of his rookie deal.

    71. Grocer

      1st, holy crap Spain Portugal was a great game. Almost makes me glad I’m between gigs and could watch it.

      KP plus the 9 for Kawhi is a fair trade but dumb for the Knicks. We’ve not got enough other assets for that to make sense for us.

      KP for the King’s pick would be great, but KP will shut that down as said above.

      Draft night Frank plus the 9 for Doncic @ 4 I think you have to do, but speculatively in advance it’s dumb. Frank’s D is so good already, if he gets to just below average in offense he’s a core piece on a contender. Him plus the pick is too much to lock in Young.

      But the 9 plus any other players than KP or Frank yes, do that ASAP. I’m not comfy with tossing in two picks, but if it’s top 10 protected and then turns into a couple second rounders that seems fine.

    72. JK47

      IMO Frank is a mortal lock to be an ABOVE average offensive player and top defensive player in as soon as 2 years but max 4 years.

      I thought you were like an analytical horse racing handicapper data-driven sort of guy. Right now if you’re saying that Frank is a “mortal lock” to be above average on offense, you’re basing that on nothing but eye test bullshit.

      I mean, I dunno, maybe there’s something you see in his no-handle, no-rim attacking ability, shaky jump shot-having game that puts him into this “mortal lock” category but it damn sure ain’t the available data.

    73. JK47

      Who are we kidding here with all of these rosy scenarios involving Doncic and Kawhi Leonard? This is the New York Knicks and Dolan’s Razor still exists.

      We won’t trade anybody, and we’ll draft Lonnie “Dion Waiters” Walker at 9, because you can never have too many shooting guards with shitty efficiency.

    74. Ben R

      I think people have a little ptsd when it comes to trading picks. Trading unprotected picks is always dumb and no pick that is not protected at least top 3 should ever be traded but other future picks should be fair game as long as the trade is right.

      Right now I think 1st round picks are overvalued and a bit of a market inefficiency. If I can move a pick for a player that is better than what that pick will reasonably turn into it’s a good trade as long as the incoming player fits my timeline and financial situation. Frank has just as good of a chance of turning into a plus player as anyone outside of the top 8 players this year.

    75. Ben R

      No Knox or Walker. I’ll take either Bridges or anyone in the top 8 or Smith and be satisfied.

      Sexton or SGA would be bad but I wouldn’t throw things at the tv but Walker or Knox would be an unmitigated disaster.

    76. Donnie Walsh

      I think people have a little ptsd when it comes to trading picks. Trading unprotected picks is always dumb and no pick that is not protected at least top 3 should ever be traded but other future picks should be fair game as long as the trade is right.

      I actually agree with this, even though I lived through the Isiah Knicks.

      Here’s a question:

      In December 2013, James L Dolan vetoed a trade between the Raptors and Knicks which would have sent Kyle Lowry to NY in exchange for Ryan Felton, Tim Hardaway Jr, and either Iman Shumpert OR the Knicks’ 2015 1st round pick.

      That pick, unprotected, would have been #4 (Porzingis).

      Today world we be collectively complaining about the bad deal that sent Porzingis to Toronto in exchange for Lowry, a 4 time all-star since 2014? Or would we be pretty satisfied?

    77. Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada

      I’d do that trade without blinking in a vacuum, though we still wouldn’t have made it out of the east imo. I guess we would’ve been a starting 5 of Lowry, Prigs, Melo, Amar’e, and Tyson, with a bench of Bargs (lol), Cole, Beno, K-Mart, and JR. You could do worse than that, but idk, if your trade doesn’t realistically increase your chances at a chip over the next few years, is it really worth it at all? Playoffs are better than no playoffs if you’re building towards something, but that might have been just a similar thing to the 2012-2013 Knicks, where we were great for one year but due to fall off a cliff since our productivity came from aging players (Kidd, Camby, KT, Tyson and Melo to an extent)

      It’s hard to say. It’s obviously a great trade in a vacuum, but it’s hard to fully evaluate the counterfactual.

      EDIT: I guess what year’s pick it was doesn’t *really* matter, since we would be making the playoffs each year and so it’d be a mid lotto pick. But we might still be stuck with MMM if we traded for Lowry.

    78. Donnie Walsh

      It was this year’s draft pick that Dolan vetoed including in that deal.

      Aha, you’re right! (I forgot that we’re were precluded bu the mandated Stepian Rule from trading the 2015 pick. (I knew there was a reason we kept it!)

      So, yeah, 2014 Lowry for #9 unprotected this year. Good trade?

    79. Brian Cronin

      Vegas odds for Kawhi’s next team:

      What team will Kawhi Leonard Play for Game 1 of the 2018-2019 season?

      LA Lakers 5/7

      Boston Celtics 15/4

      Philadelphia 76ers 5/1

      San Antonio Spurs 5/1

      Cleveland Cavaliers 10/1

      LA Clippers 10/1

    80. rama, king of superfluous poppycock

      Although a more sophisticated approach does factor timeline of player development into any decision as well, and in that respect it might have been a bad thing for us, particularly as Melo declined so precipitously.

    81. Brian Cronin

      Another thing to factor in was that Lowry was also not having a particularly good season at the time, which is why they were open to trading him. He blew up after the trade was turned down.

    82. hoolahoop

      If KP was inserted in the draft, he’d be the first guy picked.
      If you’re looking for the perfect player, there’s only one. It’s not Doncic.

    83. Ntilakilla

      If KP was inserted in the draft, he’d be the first guy picked.

      Coming off an ACL injury with a max contract coming up? I am not so sure he’d be taken in this draft #1 with those conditions.

    84. ptmilo

      Coming off an ACL injury with a max contract coming up? I am not so sure he’d be taken in this draft #1 with those conditions.

      just a second ago I was the outlier optimist on KP but yes you can be 100% sure that he would not. The rookie scale is extremely important to NPV and KP has maybe 500 minutes left on it not to mention actual comeback risk.

    85. Jack Bauer

      @89 Conspicuously missing from that list is New York, which is about right.

      The Fucking Lakers have to be the most charmed franchise in the history of sports.

    86. ess-dog

      Ugh, the Kawhi stuff is annoying. But it does seem like there’s a growing sense that it might be better to move KP because he’ll always be injury prone. On the other hand, will Frank ever be remotely decent on offense?? Crap!

      Anyway, there’s no doubt I’d trade KP for Carter, and I’d obviously trade Frank for Doncic.

      Doncic + Carter > KP + Frank. Get it done, Scottie!

    87. 2FOR18, understands math

      This time last year I said I’d riot if they drafted Malik monk.

      This year my riot player is Sexton.

      #mikalBplz

      Edit: assuming Trae is gone

    88. nicos

      This year my riot player is Sexton.

      Sexton>Lonnie Walker. There is no possible reason the Knicks should be entertaining the idea of drafting Walker even if they trade back. I have a sinking feeling that Knox is going to be the guy- it’s clear they really want a 3/4 (rather than a 2/3 which they already have plenty of) and unless Porter drops it’s either him or Miles Bridges. At least he’s young for the draft class so when he puts up a negative ows I’ll just be able to ignore it and say wait til next year!

    89. d-mar

      Haven’t been on K-blogger all day and when I go to the site I see 100 posts! And I’m thinking “wow, there must be some serious trade rumors going on, maybe we can move up in the draft after all”

      But alas, just idle speculation about deals that will never happen. As always, other teams can offer more than us and we’re just an afterthought.

      Sucks to be a Knicks fan.

    90. DRed

      In 2013 I thought Lowry was a solid player in the middle of a career year instead of a 5 year stretch as one of the better guards in the NBA.

    91. JK47

      I don’t love Collin Sexton but I can kind of squint my eyes when I look at him and see an NBA player.

      Lonnie Walker, getthefuckouttahere with that.

    92. Brian Cronin

      I’ll just be able to ignore it and say wait til next year!

      Ah, being a Knick fan.

    93. JK47

      I have a sinking feeling that Knox is going to be the guy- it’s clear they really want a 3/4 (rather than a 2/3 which they already have plenty of) and unless Porter drops it’s either him or Miles Bridges.

      Drafting for “need” when you’re a 29-win team, then reaching for a player at your “need” position who isn’t even very good.

      #Knicks

    94. billybaggs

      I just watched ESPN’s Prospect to Pro and I believe if we can’t trade up for Doncic that we should do everything we can to trade up for Mo Bamba…he is going to be special and would be a perfect compliment to KP

    95. bockadoo

      KP is 22, has not had a reasonable point guard, has not had a good coach/management/system, nor anyone on his team to ever command a double team. He has literally had the worst possible circumstances to deal with. He’s going to get stronger. Frank is 19, played the unselfish euro style instead of selfish AAU and is a great defender and good passer. I think he has a good feel for the game which is more important than being able to do a 360 windmill dunk (DSJr). He’s a baby and deferred too much to his teammates even though they suck. He will work his butt off, get stronger and gain confidence. Both of these guys are unique and their games are conducive to winning. Don’t trade either one please.

    96. Donnie Walsh

      Would you do this theoretical trade?:

      Memphis gets: Courtney Lee, Tobias Harris, Pat Beverly, and Emanuel Mudiay.

      LA Clippers get: Kristaps Porzingis, Tim Hardaway, and Ben McLemore.

      New York gets: Chandler Parsons, #4, #12, #13.

    97. Cock Jowles, #1 Purveyor of Wanton Chuckery

      So Sixers and Celts are in the mix. Tanking doesn’t work!

    98. rama, king of superfluous poppycock

      @108

      I wanted to say No, because I’m hoping KP comes back strong… But even if he does, his timetable is already more advanced, and having 4, 12, 13, and Frank is a lot of opportunity for strong players of the same age / contract value. Tough one.

    99. Brian Cronin

      I think he has a good feel for the game which is more important than being able to do a 360 windmill dunk (DSJr).

      Yep, that was the criticism of Frank’s horrifically bad offensive in his first season. He wasn’t able to do windmill dunks. Come on, man. I’m still all in on Frank, but he was just flat out horrible in nearly every facet of his offensive game in his first year.

    100. Donnie Walsh

      having 4, 12, 13, and Frank is a lot of opportunity for strong players of the same age / contract value. Tough one.

      And #9.

    101. Knick fan not in NJ at this time

      @108,,

      Definitely no, even if it didn’t doom our defense, which it does.

    102. Brian Cronin

      Definitely no, even if it didn’t doom our defense, which it does.

      It might give them a bad defense in year one, but if they drafted good defensive players, then they might be better off defensively going forward (especially since they’d be keeping Frank in the trade proposal).

    103. Knick fan not in NJ at this time

      Your have a point, but I’ve been listening to draft previews lately and most of the top picks not good at defense or extremely bad. Doncic seems better than some at defense but not great. If our management is trying to move up in the draft they are not doing it because they value defense, at least not if they are giving up KP to move up.

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