Statistical Analysis. Humor. Knicks.

Tuesday, June 19, 2018

Knicks Morning News (2018.06.04)

  • [NYPost] Knicks don’t have to wait any longer for Trae Young workout
    (Sunday, June 03, 2018 11:16:08 AM)

    Oklahoma freshman point guard Trae Young is headed to New York and will stage a workout for the Knicks on Tuesday in Tarrytown, according to an NBA source. It is believed to be Young’s first individual workout, as he’s been training in Los Angeles since March 21. The Post reported Young will work out for…

  • [NYTimes] What Was J.R. Smith Thinking on the Last Play of Regulation?
    (Sunday, June 03, 2018 10:17:32 PM)

    Game tied. A clutch rebound. Then a dribble to nowhere that will go down as a memorable N.B.A. finals blunder.

  • [NYTimes] Why Do the Warriors Dominate the 3rd Quarter? Consider Their Halftime Drill
    (Sunday, June 03, 2018 10:21:20 PM)

    The Warriors outscored opponents by 130 points in the 3rd quarter this postseason. How they spend intermission may explain why.

  • [NYTimes] N.B.A. Finals Round Table: Does LeBron James Have a Chance?
    (Sunday, June 03, 2018 11:52:26 PM)

    Our experts weigh in on several N.B.A. finals topics. What’s at stake? How do the Cavaliers keep it close? If the Warriors win, is it a problem?

  • [NYTimes] Not at the Game: Over, Easy: A Basketball Aficionado Foresees the Warriors’ Surge Past the Rockets
    (Monday, June 04, 2018 10:23:14 AM)

    Fabulous Flournoy, a Bronx native, has been a player-coach for a professional team in Britain for the past 17 seasons.

  • [NYDN] Bondy: LeBron James, Cavs are overpowered in NBA Finals because of front office mistakes
    (Sunday, June 03, 2018 10:40:00 PM)

    Run away, LeBron. There’s no escaping Dan Gilbert’s audacity in Cleveland.

    In case you missed it, the Cavs owner tweeted a thinly veiled congratulations to himself before Game 1 against the Warriors, claiming, quite amazingly, that the team would not be in the Finals if it weren’t for its trades…

  • 48 comments on “Knicks Morning News (2018.06.04)

    1. Brian Cronin

      For the time being, I’ve just deleted the stories that shouldn’t have fit into the algorithm. :)

    2. Frank

      Watching Steph last night has me wanting Trae Young again. Interesting that the Knicks are his first workout and that I read somewhere he is not planning to work out for that many teams.

    3. mase

      Frank

      That’s what every team is thinking today, in other words traes stick just rise to top 6. Maybe we get lucky and another player drops.

    4. ess-dog

      If the draft goes roughly as planned, I still think we’re taking Sexton (not my preference, I just think it will happen, don’t crucify me!)

      But it’s also possible that he could go BEFORE our pick, leaving us with Porter or Carter. For instance, if Orlando takes Trey, I could see the Cavs going for Sexton. I think he’s ranked more highly with NBA scouts than with pundits/statheads. We might be surprised at where he’s drafted.

    5. The Glass Half Rebuilt

      Every time I watch film on Trae Young I think to myself that John Hammond should be fired if he passes up on Trae Young at #6. How can a small market team with no point guard look at Trae Young and think “nah let’s wait to address the position?” He was the leading scorer and set up man in the NCAA on a team that could not do anything without him. Who cares if he’s not a good defender? He’s a lethal shooter and penetrator off the dribble, an excellent passer, and is great in catch and shoot situations off screens. Put him on a team with Gordon, Isaac, Fournier, and Vucevic and those guys go to the playoffs next season.

      Trae Young should not be available at pick #9. If he slides past Orlando, Chicago, and Cleveland I’d be shocked because he’s a game changing talent. The only players you consider ahead of him are Ayton, Doncic, Bagley, Bamba, Jackson Jr, and Porter Jr if he’s healthy. Maybe Wendell Carter Jr, but even then that leaves him in Cleveland at 8.

    6. Hubert

      <Watching Steph last night has me wanting Trae Young again

      Not gonna lie, I’ve been against Trae Young from the beginning but even I felt the same way yesterday.

      Of course, it doesn’t necessarily hold up logically. “I want Steph Curry so bad, ergo we should take a guy who appears to be able to project to be a reasonable facsimile of him” is flawed thinking. For a guy who is 6’3 and 190 lbs, Steph is incredibly strong. It’s been reported that he deadlifts more than any player on the Warriors. And that strength manifests itself with his incredible efficiency around the basket and the fact that the Warriors can maintain an historically elite defense despite him being frequently targeted. If Trae doesn’t develop that kind of strength, I don’t think it’s likely he will ever give a team what Curry does, even if he can shoot and pass like him. Strength is arguably the easiest attribute to develop, though.

      But like Mase said, someone in the top 8 (probably Orlando, imho) is going to take that chance on him. And like ess-dog, I’m also mentally preparing myself for the likelihood that we select Collin Sexton at 9. He and the two Bridges are likely to be the BPA when we draft. And if you go back to Mills’ quotes this time last year at TH2’s press conference when he described the kind of player he wants to build around, Sexton fits that mold to a T.

    7. hoolahoop

      Interesting read on the Warriors halftime process.
      All the time, you hear coaches say that they’re only as good as their players, or something like that. That’s BS.
      The coaching team, systems, and procedures play an enormous part of a teams success. It’s like saying, “if only I had the Google algorithm, I’d have built Google”.
      People think, if only we drafted one spot higher, we’d have Steph Curry. But that’s wrong. The Steph Curry on the Warriors is not the Steph Curry we’d have on the knicks. In fact good chance he wouldn’t even be on the knicks anymore. He’d likely have been traded by one of the regimes that wanted “their” guys.

    8. The Glass Half Rebuilt

      The more I study these players is the more I see it likely that Michael Porter Jr is available to us at 9:

      PHO – Ayton is the pick here. He went to the University of Arizona and is a freak of nature. He’s like a bizarro Dwight Howard with the chance to be a plus rim protector.
      SAC – Doncic goes here because he’s the GOAT Euro prospect.
      ATL – Mo Bamba. The wingspan plus the developing offensive game gives him the nod over Jackson Jr, who I believe will slide on draft day.
      MEM – Bagley goes here. The work he did at Duke as the ACC player of the year next to a center like WCJr makes him a great fit between Conley and Gasol.
      DAL – Wendell Carter Jr is the pick here. He can defend the rim, rebound, play the pick and roll, set grown man screens for Dennis Smith Jr, and he has a developed post game that will get him 10-12 points a night. People see Al Horford, but he’s really a shorter Joel Embiid.
      ORL – Trae Young is the pick. He’s arguably the BPA and the need here at point guard is uncanny.
      CHI – Jaren Jackson Jr finally goes 7th overall. Chicago can use a rim protector that can also switch onto smaller players, and he went to Michigan State so chances are they know all about him.
      CLE – Collin Sexton. He’s a super athletic, ultra competitive lead guard who excels off ball screens and attacking downhill. The Cavs will see him as a replacement for Kyrie Irving and will play him and George Hill together while returning JR Smith to the bench. The assists won’t bother Cleveland on draft day because LeBron runs the show anyway.
      NYK – Michael Porter Jr falls into the perfect situation on a team with two elite defenders in Frank and KP that boasts no dynamic wing talent. As long as he’s closing out on shooters and not getting smoked off the dribble, the Knicks will maintain a good defense and a dynamic offensive attack.

    9. ess-dog

      Btw, unless you really think he can learn to become a good penetrator, the odds are very much against Mikal being anything but an average NBA player at his “advanced” age.

      I think there’s a good argument to be made for swinging for the fences on a freshman that isn’t fully formed yet rather than take Mikal. Only a handful of senior-age draft picks are currently thriving in the NBA. Sure Mikal could buck the trend, but the fact that he had a great system and exceptional teammates makes me think some of what he does might not necessarily translate.

      He could become Otto Porter but he could just as easily become Reggie Bullock.

    10. MSA

      The only way I see us getting Young or Porter Jr is both of them still being avaluable at the 8th pick.

      If Lebron is staying, he has a lot of influence over the FO choices. And he’s the type of guy that goes for “ballers”. They won’t pass both.

    11. Donnie Walsh

      The Steph Curry on the Warriors is not the Steph Curry we’d have on the knicks. In fact good chance he wouldn’t even be on the knicks anymore.

      If Curry had fallen to us in the draft, he’d have won 3 championships for the Rockets so far.

    12. TheOakmanCometh

      Hard to imagine Trae will get to us. There are only 2 guards in the top 9 players, and 5 teams ahead of us could use a playmaking PG. Orlando was running out Augustin and Mack as their PG tandem last year.

      I’d take him in a heartbeat if he was there. I just see Porter as being far likelier to drop.

    13. TheOakmanCometh

      If Steph was drafted by the Knicks, he’d have averaged 23 and 9 as a rookie in D’Antoni’s system. The next year, Dolan would have thrown him into the Melo trade as a sweetener.

    14. Brian Cronin

      @9 – JJJ isn’t dropping to 7

      Nor is MPJ dropping to #9…unless he’s career-altering injured.

    15. mase

      steph was the guy we wanted at 6, derozen was the guy we shouldve taken at 7… yea he probably wouldve been thrown in the melo deal

    16. Brian Cronin

      I think that the Knicks are an incompetent organization, but they would not have traded Steph in either the Jeffries trade or the Melo deal.

    17. ClashFan

      Wasn’t Donnie Walsh enamored with Curry? Even with Dolan’s foolishness, Walsh might not have signed off on trading Curry.

    18. mase

      man its crazy to think that J.R. might be the reason lebron walks, i mean if GS sweeps the cavs although i dont think they will cuz lebron is not losing three games in cleveland… i guess buyer beware on J.R…the series should be tied right now

    19. Stratomatic "Porzingis, Ntilikina, and one of the Bridges are going to lead us to the promised land"

      I saw a couple of articles out of Chicago that sounded like the Bulls want Carter primarily but also like both Bridges. If the Knicks have someone specific in mind, it would not shock me to see them trade up a few slots by throwing in another pick. Would the Chicago 2nd rounder be enough to move up a little? I’m not sure who they would do that for.

    20. Stratomatic "Porzingis, Ntilikina, and one of the Bridges are going to lead us to the promised land"

      JR Smith is taking TOO MUCH heat for that mistake.

      1. George Hill missed the go ahead FT.
      2. They still had a chance to compete in OT.
      3. Even if JR Smith threw up a shot or passed it out there’s less than a 50% chance anyone would have made it.
      4. If someone made it, there might still have been 1-2 seconds on the clock for GS.

    21. mase

      “too much heat”

      what!

      that is a mistake a player makes in highschool, not the finals in a game 1 scenario where the main objective is to win home court advantage.
      also, hill tied the game he deserves credit. j.r. thought they were ahead 1 point. major fuckup cuz he had a wide open lebron at the top of the arc to seal the deal cuz thats what lebron does.

    22. Stratomatic "Porzingis, Ntilikina, and one of the Bridges are going to lead us to the promised land"

      It was obviously a boneheaded play, but it’s only getting so much attention because it was the last play of regulation.

      It’s not like if JR made the perfect play the Cavs would have won. They were more likely to lose anyway. He just blew “x%” chance at winning (as did other boneheaded plays and misses).

    23. mase

      nope…wide open lebron at the top of the arc with 3 seconds left drives to the rack and scores 10 times out of 10. the whole momentum of the series shifts…

    24. Stratomatic "Porzingis, Ntilikina, and one of the Bridges are going to lead us to the promised land"

      nope…wide open lebron at the top of the arc with 3 seconds left drives to the rack and scores 10 times out of 10. the whole momentum of the series shifts…

      10 out of 10?

      Getting the rebound, seeing Lebron, making the pass and getting off the shot would use up most of the clock before Lebron put the ball on the floor. The best case scenario is Lebron taking a jumper, but more likely is that it happens so quickly JR takes some kind of off balance shot.

    25. hoolahoop

      It was unfortunate because Cleveland, especially LeBron, played their hearts out to get in that position, and then blow it on a missed free throw and mental blunder. That pain will live with LeBron until his last day on earth. And JR, too. And Hill for his missed free throw.

    26. hoolahoop

      On the other hand, Lebron created the Golden State monster when he engineered his Miami Superteam. It opened the door for the best players to stack teams.
      I hate it.

    27. Bruno Almeida

      JR is taking so much heat because the Cavs losing game 1 basically ended any chance the series would be enjoyable to watch. Everyone knows it’s either a sweep or a 4-1 series now and JR’s mistake was the most egregious one in a series of mistakes.

      People hate seeing Golden State with Durant succeed, it’s pretty simple. I do enjoy watching the Warriors play but I was so angry at the end of game 1 simply because a great playoffs will inevitably end in a not close at all finals, game 2 was already specially boring.

    28. Owen

      For the time being, I’ve just deleted the stories that shouldn’t have fit into the algorithm. :)

      I think you should have gone in a different direction and put up a “Where is Melania” open thread.

      The good news for JR Smith is if they Warriors take the next two, the Game 1 meltdown will fade into history.

    29. Farfa

      Honestly I enjoy so much watching LeBron lose that I’d add Davis to the Warriors and be happy anyway

    30. The Glass Half Rebuilt

      The thing about Jaren Jackson Jr is he only played 21 minutes a game and averaged 10 boards per 40. He’s also the slightest built of all the big man prospects. He’s being projected as high as 3 to Atlanta, but why take him over Bamba there? Bamba is a better rebounder, has the higher offensive upside, and protects the rim either as well or better than Jackson Jr.

      Jackson Jr could go to Memphis, but Bagley makes more sense for a team who wants to get back to the playoffs. He’s the relentless rebounder you need next to Gasol and Gasol can cover his deficiencies defensively.

      Dallas I think would take Carter Jr over Jackson Jr. because Carter Jr had superior stats in a similar role and has a grown man body already. I think once Carter Jr works out in Dallas, they’ll be more comfortable having him as both a dive man in the P&R/P&P and as a second scoring option in iso-post ups. Carter Jr has loads of skill and that’s why people underestimate his athleticism.

      Orlando goes Trae Young at 6. Need is too great to pass up on a guy that talented.

      That’s why I have Jackson Jr at 7. I think he’s more projection than production, and that in this specific draft there’s too much productive talent with equally high ceilings to take Jackson Jr in the top 5. Bamba, Bagley, Ayton, and Carter Jr are better prospects in my eyes.

    31. TheOakmanCometh

      I think that the Knicks are an incompetent organization, but they would not have traded Steph in either the Jeffries trade or the Melo deal.

      Brian, I wish I shared your faith. But you underestimate Dolan’s incompetence and impetuousness at your peril.

      Steph put up modest numbers his rookie year (14, 4, and 5) through Feb. 19 when the Knicks made the McGrady trade. It’s not crazy to think they would have flipped him for the McGrady cap space, or even traded him the next year for PROVEN SUPERSTAR Carmelo Anthony. Because if it comes down to giving up Landry Fields or Steph Curry, that is a very, very tough call. Landry is better without the ball in his hands, so he’d probably be a better fit with Melo. Besides, Curry has weak ankles! Adios, Steph.

      (Two years later, cue 10 million Knicks fans committing mass suicide.)

    32. Hubert

      He’s being projected as high as 3 to Atlanta, but why take him over Bamba there? Bamba is a better rebounder, has the higher offensive upside, and protects the rim either as well or better than Jackson Jr.

      I get it, Bamba is tantalizing. The wingspan is remarkable. But Jackson did protect the rim better (5.5 blocks per 40 vs 4.8) and he shot 40% from 3 on 96 attempts. I can see why he’d go 3rd.

      Combined with his low assist numbers and insufficient rebounding stats, Jackson actually looks like a sturdier version of Porzingis.

    33. djphan

      Jackson is a much better offensive player than bamba… namely because he can shoot but he’s also got some mobility to him and off ball intelligence… he’s also two years younger….

      bamba thinks he can shoot and wants to be a stretch big but he’s just not it right now… his physical profile is intriguing.. but he’s very far away in terms of contributing heavily on offense aside from anything he can put in from inside 10 ft… he may develop a shot but he should instead develop some more low post moves and leverage his size better…

      they both can’t really handle the ball or pass… which limits both their upsides for now…. but if you had to pick one who will figure it out… i’d pick jackson… bamba’s very herky jerky and sloppy… which from the eye test usually means awkward offensive big man…

    34. rama, king of superfluous poppycock

      I do think that was a great rebound by JR. An offensive board off a missed free throw is tough to get. So there’s that.

    35. Brian Cronin

      Steph put up modest numbers his rookie year (14, 4, and 5) through Feb. 19 when the Knicks made the McGrady trade. It’s not crazy to think they would have flipped him for the McGrady cap space, or even traded him the next year for PROVEN SUPERSTAR Carmelo Anthony. Because if it comes down to giving up Landry Fields or Steph Curry, that is a very, very tough call. Landry is better without the ball in his hands, so he’d probably be a better fit with Melo. Besides, Curry has weak ankles! Adios, Steph.

      (Two years later, cue 10 million Knicks fans committing mass suicide.)

      Curry would have been a real contributor to that Knicks team. Jordan Hill was not. That was Hill’s death knell. The Knicks looked at him and basically said, “Eh, who’ll miss him?” There’s no way that they would have said the same about Curry. Or, heck, most high draft picks. Hill was just a rare case where a lottery pick really didn’t seem to matter that much. Hell, the Rockets didn’t even really seem to want him, they just wanted to get as much out of the Knicks as they could. Then the next year, what would be the odds of Curry being worse his second year? He would have been the starting point guard, probably. Or maybe the starting 2 with Raymond Felton at the 1, if they still signed Felton. Heck, Fields might not have even cracked the starting lineup. By year two, Curry would be the guy they would have been using to recruit Lebron during the 2010 offseason, ya know? I mean, come on, Steph Curry being coached by Mike freakin’ D’Antoni? It’d be nuts.

    36. Knick fan not in NJ at this time

      I don’t know much about college basketball, but from the descriptions here, Trae Young seems much more promising than Dennis Smith Jr. was last year. Is that true? If so, then a) he probably won’t be available at number nine, and b) as much as I hate saying this, the Knicks should probably draft him if he is available.

    37. Brian Cronin

      Yeah, he’s a better prospect than DSJ. It’s a really nice draft this year. A lot like last year but more depth AND more top level talent.

      That depth is what makes him dropping to #9 at least a theoretical possiblity. But yes, it is still unlikely.

    38. Bruno Almeida

      The Knicks did have a workout with him so at least they think there’s a chance probably. If he’s available at the 9th I can’t see a reason not to pick him, the upside is too good, he’s too good of a shooter and passer to not pick him.

      I’m also scared he might just bust, but it’s the 9th pick, we shouldn’t overthink too much unless it’s a super bizarre case where both he and Porter are available or something like that.

    39. Donnie Walsh

      I think that the Knicks are an incompetent organization, but they would not have traded Steph in either the Jeffries trade or the Melo deal.

      Man, this is one of those questions we’ll never know the answer to. I guess it’s your optimism here that’s what keeps you coming back, year after year, to root for this franchise. (Personally, I think Donnie would have included Curry in a package to shed 2010 salary, but I don’t have any inside information or anything:)

      One thing that is clear, though, is that Walsh correctly identified who he wanted both in 2008 and 2009. If a butterfly in China had flapped its wings a little differently, we could have had Westbrook and Curry going into the Summer of LeBron…

    40. The Glass Half Rebuilt

      I’m not sure I’ll be able to let this one go re Bamba v. Jackson Jr.

      Mo Bamba has the highest ceiling of any player in this draft. At worst, you’re talking about a Rudy Gobert clone. He catches lobs and stalks opposing players defensively, and he slides his feet like a small forward. There is no doubt in anybody’s mind that he will be an elite rim protector as he posted 14 boards and 4.8 blocks to 3.2 fouls per 40. Compare that to Jaren Jackson Jr who blocked 5.5 shots but only grabbed 10.6 boards and had 5.5 fouls per 40, and you see who is already the better defender. Bamba is going to control the paint by securing rebounds and blocking shots without fouling, while Jackson Jr isn’t a plus rebounder at the 5 and fouls too much to stay on the court. Chances are as Jackson Jr’s foul rate drops, so will his blocked shots rate as that seems to be an issue of how aggressively he plays.

      Offensively, Jaren Jackson is a better 3 point shooter, but his ceiling as an offensive player is elite role player. He’s a guy who will catch and shoot and can also dive. That’s cool and extremely useful. Clint Capela who can shoot threes? We’d all sign up for that, but Mo Bamba’s ceiling is a two-way KAT type of guy. Bamba has shown flashes that he can post up, face up, and shoot the three. He won’t be able to take guys off the dribble, but one on one from 12 feet down? He can potentially be a nightmare on that end of the court.

      If I’m Travis Schlenk I’m taking Mo Bamba and I’m banking my career on it. Jaren Jackson Jr is a lot of fun but his ceiling is lower and I have questions about his rebounding.

    41. Cock Jowles, #1 Purveyor of Wanton Chuckery

      Here’s a question for you (no cheating): How old is Kendrick Perkins?

    42. The Glass Half Rebuilt

      He got drafted out of high school in 2003 I think so he should be around 34 or 35.

    43. yellowboy90

      Jackson reminds me of a more fluid Myles Turner and his body has around 1.5 years less to develop than Bamba. In the end I think both will have good careers.

    44. "Out Fearing!"

      Here’s a question for you (no cheating): How old is Kendrick Perkins?

      (No cheating) He’s 33, just 3 or 4 months older than LeBron, and less than 4 years older than Stephen Curry. But the guy seems like he’s 45.

    45. Brian Cronin

      Man, this is one of those questions we’ll never know the answer to. I guess it’s your optimism here that’s what keeps you coming back, year after year, to root for this franchise. (Personally, I think Donnie would have included Curry in a package to shed 2010 salary, but I don’t have any inside information or anything:)

      One thing that is clear, though, is that Walsh correctly identified who he wanted both in 2008 and 2009. If a butterfly in China had flapped its wings a little differently, we could have had Westbrook and Curry going into the Summer of LeBron…

      If Walsh was just dumping guys for salary relief, he would have traded Gallo and Chandler. He wasn’t. Hill was only available because Walsh and D’Antoni seemed to routinely never speak to each other about who they wanted on the team. Hill was an oldish rookie that D’Antoni had no interest in who rarely played and when he did play, he didn’t impress (he was what you expect from an older rookie, in that he was more competent than most, but that was basically it). Steph Curry on the Knicks under D’Antoni would be the guy you specifically keep to try to attract free agents in the upcoming 2010 Draft. Walsh would have sooner included Chandler or Gallo in the infamous 2010 salary dump than Curry.

    Leave a Reply