Statistical Analysis. Humor. Knicks.

Tuesday, June 19, 2018

Knicks Morning News (2018.05.24)

  • [NYPost] Local hero may get homecoming on David Fizdale’s Knicks staff
    (Wednesday, May 23, 2018 2:01:34 PM)

    New Knicks head coach David Fizdale is casting a wide net looking for assistant coaches, but the search still has a decidedly local flavor. New York City native Royal Ivey, an assistant coach on the Thunder, interviewed with the Knicks recently. The Knicks also are speaking with New Jersey native and former Nets assistant Pat…

  • [NYPost] David Fizdale’s playoff trip telling sign for one young Knick
    (Wednesday, May 23, 2018 10:29:06 AM)

    Road trip! Knicks coach David Fizdale is taking Frank Ntilikina and some of his young charges to Boston for Wednesday’s Game 5 of the Eastern Conference finals at TD Garden, according to an NBA source. Fizdale, whose stated goal is to establish “great relationships” with his players, will bring along two of his young point…

  • [NYTimes] Sterling Brown Arrest Video Shows Milwaukee Police Using Stun Gun on N.B.A. Player
    (Thursday, May 24, 2018 1:43:12 AM)

    Police conduct toward black people has been a fraught issue in Milwaukee. The city’s mayor said: ‘As a human being, I am offended by what I saw.’

  • [NYTimes] Not at the Game: The Best Coach in the Bay Area Breaks Down the Warriors’ Breakdown
    (Wednesday, May 23, 2018 2:12:29 PM)

    “I might lose my lunch,” Sue Phillips, who runs a juggernaut of a high school basketball program, said as she watched Golden State crumble in Game 4.

  • [SNY Knicks] Knicks not expected to take guard at No. 9 in NBA Draft
    (Wednesday, May 23, 2018 2:20:07 PM)

    The Knicks are focusing on selecting a wing or a big man with the No. 9 pick in the NBA Draft,

  • 128 comments on “Knicks Morning News (2018.05.24)

    1. Ntilakilla

      Is anyone here surprised by what the Sterling Brown video reveals? I seriously can’t even fathom how some people will argue that excessive police force and racial discrimination aren’t systemic problems in our country. What this particular incident especially reveals is the fact that a person of color can have the benefits of wealth and celebrity in our society and still be at a disadvantage in the most basic encounters with law enforcement. The police officer saying that “I don’t follow the Bucks, so I didn’t recognize you. I didn’t recognize your famous name” says it all to me.

    2. Henry George

      It’s a great sign that Fix took Frank, Dotson and Mudiay to go see a playoff game! Aside from taking in an NBA playoff atmosphere, he’s teaching them how to watch and learn.

      At the same time, I suspect that he’s probably also evaluating each for their aptitudes and inclinations towards picking the game’s more minute details. Namely the kinds of details that win playoff games.

      Then there’s the voluntary practice session that also included Burke and Troy Williams, which was another good move on his part. It’s a smart move for him to see for himself what each of the 5 guys offers. Likewise, it’s just as smart to get them clued in on how he runs practices in a smaller, more focused environment.

    3. d-mar

      I went back and looked at some of the Jayson Tatum draft prospect reports, and most of them had him as the player with the highest “bust potential”. And now he’s playing like an All-Star in the conference finals.

      Next to the Nets heist, the trade down by Ainge to the #3 draft pick (which also got him next year’s Kings first round pick) might be one of the shrewdest moves ever by a GM.

    4. The Glass Half Rebuilt

      I’m convinced that Ainge really isn’t a great guy at the draft but Brad Stevens is such an awesome coach he can make anybody productive. Tatum and Brown were good picks in retrospect but reaches considering there were more talented players on the board. You think Tatum looks good? Imagine if the Celtics took Jonathan Isaac instead. What if Jamaal Murray or Juan Hernangomez went 3rd overall instead of Jaylen Brown?

      I’m not saying a GM has to take the best player in retrospect to be good at drafting. I’m saying that, in 2017, Jay Tatum wasn’t the 3rd best player on more than a few draft boards and Jaylen Brown was only the 3rd best player on Boston’s draft board in 2016. It’s been working out well for them, but I think that’s the Brad Stevens effect more than it is Ainge’s skills drafting.

      Getting the Kings’ pick was pretty smart, though. I’d be surprised if Boston didn’t win a championship by 2022.

    5. Clyde's suit

      Kevin Knox really looks like the kind of wing that can be developed into just the type of player the Knicks desperately need at the 3 spot. Long, athletic, nice 3 point shot. What’s not to like?

    6. mase

      Knox is a guy who has all the physical gifts to be a starting wing but doesn’t seem to want it or something. He would have a sharp learning curve in the pros and it’s a roll of the dice if he ever achieves his potential.

    7. GHenman

      I love Knox and he’s the youngest guy in the draft. If he stayed at Kentucky for another year, I bet he would be drafted in the top 5 next year. The fact that he may take a couple of years to develop shouldn’t matter. That should make the “tankers” happy. I don’t know where the doesn’t seem to want it talk comes from.

    8. The Glass Half Rebuilt

      Kevin Knox’s only problem is he’s the youngest player in the draft so it’s hard to project him.

    9. d-mar

      @7 Wow. I respect Stevens as a coach but to say he’s responsible for the greatness of Tatum, that’s a real stretch.

      I have a hunch that if he was on Philly, he’d be just fine.

    10. DRed

      Knox has paltry assist, steal and block numbers, which is a pretty big red flag if he’s a wing player.

    11. DRed

      Ainge seems to prioritize guys who are athletic and and can play defense and hope that they develop on offense.

    12. The Glass Half Rebuilt

      @12 I’m not really trying to say that his success is because of Stevens. I’m more saying that the Stevens hire does a lot more for Ainge’s draft success than anything else. Ainge has made some head scratching decisions in the draft, but Stevens’ system and the player development program they have in Boston is excellent. The reason people think Boston is some scraptastic team is because Ainge overdrafts players. People have to be reminded that the Celtics have three top 3 picks in their starting five. That speaks to the job Ainge has done in the draft just as much as it speaks to the job Stevens does as a coach.

      I’m just saying if Ainge drafted Jonathan Isaac instead of Jayson Tatum we’d have been fucked. But Isaac went to Orlando a.k.a. Kings East so he’ll likely never reach his potential and we’ll never know what could have been.

    13. mase

      @14

      That’s true but that he prefers defense over offense is good scouting /drafting philosophy.

      Which is why Knox is not a lottery pick in my opinion. He is one of those players that are overvalued and the reason undervalued players like divincenzo become late first round steals.

    14. Frank

      To paraphrase Dennis Green, the Celtics draft picks are who they are, not who mock draft boards suggested they should/would be. If the guys doing mock drafts were the best scouts in the world, they’d be making millions of dollars being GMs and VPs of player personnel rather than writing websites out of their moms’ basements.

      Danny Ainge looked at Markelle Fultz and didn’t like what he saw. He looked at Jayson Tatum and liked what he saw. Similarly he saw 6’8″ super long athlete with awesome body control in Jaylen Brown and took him even when others didn’t see it. He’s obviously been proven right in his player evaluation. Sure Brad Stevens has a large part in that, but hey, Ainge chose him too. Marrying talent evaluation and a development system is what every good GM should do. Ainge’s moves are only “head-scratching” when you believe that groupthink is definitely right.

    15. The Glass Half Rebuilt

      The thing is when you watch the Celtics play you don’t see a group of guys that make you say “wow what a great find by Ainge.” They absolutely look like a group of overachievers, and their stats don’t do much to change that perception. Ainge deserves a lot of credit for building this team, but most of that credit starts and ends with the Brad Stevens hire.

    16. Jack Bauer

      Whoever you want to give the credit to, and I would say both Stevens and Ainge deserve their share, Tatum is looking really good right now. I like his game a lot.

      Also need to give Ainge credit for hiring Stevens, that counts for something too.

      Game 5 in Houston tonight, It’s On. Who you got?

      I like the Warriors to bounce back, but it will be very close.

      Lebron looked tired last night and his supporting cast looked very underwhelming again. JR appears to be useless player at this point.

    17. Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada

      GSW in 6, so I think they’re winning the next 2.

    18. ProjectKnicks

      Whatever is going on in Boston, it’s good. Should be even better when Irving & Heyward return.
      Not to rain on their parade, but they will be lucky to win one against GSW or Rockets, very happy to lose 4-2, elated to take it to 7.

    19. Cock Jowles, #1 Purveyor of Wanton Chuckery

      Sometimes comments get stuck in moderation for some reason. I don’t think it’s a targeted thing.

    20. Cock Jowles, #1 Purveyor of Wanton Chuckery

      elated to take it to 7

      Losing in 4 or 5, you could see someone being like, “Hey, we made it this far with our two max players on the bench.” Losing in 7? No one’s going to be happy about that. You fall in the NBA Finals’ rubber game, it’s going to sting forever.

    21. danvt

      Disappointed in GSW. I think they lose the series now. They play such a pleasing style and HOU is all one on one. I hate watching HOU and will be bored watching the finals without GSW there. Kerr deserves some criticism. The team is getting lazy and relying on KD going one on one. Everything gets bogged down. They’re playing down to HOU’s level. Not that HOU is bad, but GSW has lost that crispness. Get the ball in Curry’s hands, get it in Draymond’s, break the defense down, passpasspass, make that ball sing dammit. Might be too late. I hope I’m wrong.

    22. Cock Jowles, #1 Purveyor of Wanton Chuckery

      Also need to give Ainge credit for hiring Stevens, that counts for something too.

      Stevens was a good hire, but there are things I would change about his coaching style.

      1) He doesn’t yell enough, so his players can never really tell if he’s even interested in being an NBA coach.

      2) He plays rookies in significant minutes when there are plenty of great veterans waiting for a chance to be contributors on a playoff contender. I recognize that Tatum and Brown likely got as many minutes as they did because of the Hayward injury, but how do you not look to proven veterans like Deron Williams, Kris Humphries or Josh Smith before entrusting a rookie — with no playoff pedigree — to guard a dominant offensive force like Tristan Thompson or Rodney Hood?

      3) Not enough technical fouls. Again, any contender needs a fiery head coach to motivate them to play harder and angrier. I’m aware that technical fouls are like giving the other team a free point and the ball, but sometimes you have to spend money to make money, you know what I’m sayin?

      4) He never played in the NBA. I need my head coach to not just understand the hesi pull-up jimbo, but be able to execute it well enough to teach raw, high-ceiling players like Aron Baynes and Marcus Smart how to diversify their offensive skillset. Stevens looks like a fucking nerd who deserves to coach a D-III team, so I think his skillset is more appropriate for a Bard College rather than the Celtics. Imagine how much better they’d be if they had a proven winner like Doc Rivers or Mike Woodson or Kurt Rambis to lead the charge.

    23. danvt

      More thoughts. Knicks are fukt for the foreseeable future and I hate the race to the bottom in the NBA (and how the Knicks lose that race too.) NBA has definitely lost some luster for me but I can still really enjoy the league. After the news today, I can’t really in good conscience watch the NFL anymore. I’m a sports junky so, I’d never say never, it’d be disingenuous, but what with the concussion issue and now this vote to suppress free speech, they’re practically begging me to turn the channel. Advantage NBA.

    24. danvt

      @25 Vintage Jowles! Nice one.

      Are you on someone’s case or did that just come to you in a fever dream? I always perk up when you post, you old curmudgeon…

    25. Stratomatic "Porzingis, Ntilikina, and Michael Porter are going to lead us to the promised land"

      I’m saying that, in 2017, Jay Tatum wasn’t the 3rd best player on more than a few draft boards

      The whole idea is to look at the models that everyone else is looking at to evaluate players, figure out what they are doing wrong, and then draft the player that IS actually the best player at that spot and not the one that fans and other executives THINK is the best.

      Boston may be focusing on factors that everyone else is not looking at or at least under weighting.

    26. ClashFan

      @25

      2) He plays rookies in significant minutes when there are plenty of great veterans waiting for a chance to be contributors on a playoff contender. I recognize that Tatum and Brown likely got as many minutes as they did because of the Hayward injury, but how do you not look to proven veterans like Deron Williams, Kris Humphries or Josh Smith before entrusting a rookie — with no playoff pedigree — to guard a dominant offensive force like Tristan Thompson or Rodney Hood?

      I totally agree. I mean, the Celtics should have acquired savvy vets like Michael Beasley and Jarrett Jack, play them lots of minutes, and install a proper winning culture.

      Play the kids? What the heck were they thinking?

    27. Stratomatic "Porzingis, Ntilikina, and Michael Porter are going to lead us to the promised land"

      but what with the concussion issue and now this vote to suppress free speech, they’re practically begging me to turn the channel. Advantage NBA.

      I believe the rule they put in place is the same one that already exists in the NBA.

      The idea is that they can protest before games, after games, at halftime, in post game interviews, and on their own time. However, they can’t do it during the national anthem.

      These are not my feelings on the issue, but I get both sides.

      Some people feel that if you protest the anthem you are not just protesting police racism and brutality, you are protesting the country. You are saying the country is racist (which is false) when the reality is that some small percentage of people are racist and we have a poor recruiting and training system for police officers so some percentage of cops are racist and badly trained.

      The other side feels that in order to have an impact they have to make people uncomfortable and do it during the anthem.

      The owners are in a no win position in the middle.

      I think 95% of everyone with a functioning brain wants to get rid of the racist and idiot cops and sympathizes with the players. The disagreement is entirely about the timing and method of protest and what it means. We have two sides that both want the same thing and instead of fixing it the media is whipping everyone into a frenzy (because they are scumbags and that’s what they do).

    28. djphan

      most draft prognosticators fall into a certain narrative about a player and then others start parroting and soon groupthink sets in…. and thats when mistakes get made…. making assumptions based on limited evidence…

      tatum had a lot of very obvious signs that he was going to be very good…. not the least of which was that he was younger than all the other wings by a full year and still put up a deep and diverse statline….

      there werent too many headscratchers among ainges pick… besides jaylen brown… you have both feet in reality and youll do better than most teams and you get a lot of high picks on top of that and youll be where the celtics are….

    29. Cock Jowles, #1 Purveyor of Wanton Chuckery

      Some people feel that if you protest the anthem you are not just protesting police racism and brutality, you are protesting the country. You are saying the country is racist (which is false) when the reality is that some small percentage of people are racist and we have a poor recruiting and training system for police officers so some percentage of cops are racist and badly trained.

      If I want to kneel for the flag because I think Flamin’ Hot Cheetos should be more respected by my fellow Americans, it is my right to do so.

      If you want to kneel because you think indoor plumbing is totally overrated and you think the flag stands for indoor plumbing, it is your right to do so.

      The reasons for standing, sitting, kneeling or inducing vomiting during a flag ceremony are wholly irrelevant. Non-violently abstaining from any ceremonial act is protected by the First Amendment.

      I was in high school when the two illegal Bush wars (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_Body_Count_project, in case you forgot) came into being. If you were the teacher asking me for my reasons that I didn’t stand and salute the fucking flag every morning like a good li’l American, I would have told you, politely, that it was none of your fucking business. Because it’s not.

    30. hoolahoop

      Jayson Tatum is killing it. If the playoffs were included in ROY voting, he’d get my vote.
      Jalen Brown is another young stud.

      And as it turns out, Cleveland needs Kyrie more than Boston does.

    31. hoolahoop

      I don’t have a problem with players taking a knee during the national anthem.
      What I have a problem with, is cops unnecessarily shooting black men in the back.

    32. hoolahoop

      If I want to kneel for the flag because I think Flamin’ Hot Cheetos should be more respected by my fellow Americans, it is my right to do so.

      If you want to kneel because you think indoor plumbing is totally overrated and you think the flag stands for indoor plumbing, it is your right to do so.

      The reasons for standing, sitting, kneeling or inducing vomiting during a flag ceremony are wholly irrelevant. Non-violently abstaining from any ceremonial act is protected by the First Amendment.
      ….
      If you were the teacher asking me for my reasons that I didn’t stand and salute the fucking flag every morning like a good li’l American, I would have told you, politely, that it was none of your fucking business. Because it’s not.

      @ cockjowles
      This is your best post ever.

    33. Cock Jowles, #1 Purveyor of Wanton Chuckery

      You are saying the country is racist (which is false)

      Sometimes I take for granted that some people have never read a history book.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism_in_the_United_States

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_the_United_States

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Civil_War

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Codes_(United_States)

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Crow_laws

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lynching_in_the_United_States

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_segregation_in_the_United_States

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watts_riots

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selma_to_Montgomery_marches

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greensboro_sit-ins

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redlining

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1992_Los_Angeles_riots

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Police_brutality_in_the_United_States

      This might help you catch up on the last two-hundred years. But nah, “I’m not a racist!” so racism doesn’t exist in this country.

    34. hoolahoop

      I missed that memo, that the flag, or the nat’l anthem, became the property of the military or cops. Or Republicans.
      It’s the property of every single citizen in this country, from homeless drug addicts to the POTUS.
      It represents the freedom to kneel, not the requirement to salute and obey.

      I can live without the NFL a lot easier than losing my freedom of expression.

    35. Ntilakilla

      The great American philosopher Beyonce Knowles once stated “It’s been said that racism is so American, that when we protest racism, some assume we are protesting America.”

      Has there ever been a truer observation made about this NFL anthem controversy than hers?

    36. Ntilakilla

      I missed that memo, that the flag, or the nat’l anthem, became the property of the military or cops.

      They can have it as far as I am concerned. The Star-Spangled Banner is a song written by a slave-owner celebrating the defeat of enfranchised slaves fighting against their masters for their emancipation in the War of 1812. I think we can and sure as hell should do better for our national anthem than that.

    37. freethrow

      Ironic quoting Beyonce and racism when she had one of the more racially charged halftime shows ever, no white people, all black nationalism and separatism. bad role model. not inclusive.

      Also Steve kerr’s comments may play well to the coast but he looks like a big hypocrite based on his own leagues stance on the issue.

    38. Ntilakilla

      Beyonce had one of the more racially charged halftime shows ever, no white people all black nationalism and separatism. bad role model.

      God forbid a performance doesn’t include white people in it. Next thing you know we’ll have a non-White in the White House too!

    39. danvt

      ???

      I feel unsafe. I thought you’re piece was well written and said so, but you did your usual…

      So, whatever, you’re confused as to why writing “tumescent” was inappropriate…

      Have a nice day. I said I’d stay away from the NFL too but that promise might be short lived, so, hey, you never know. Occasionally, you deign to treat someone other than Mike K as a human being. If you ever do that for me (not that you should for one so unworthy) I’m there for ya, brother…

    40. JK47

      The NFL can go eat a dick. I’m done with that corrupt soulless entity. I was a Raider fan, so it’s not like I’m missing anything other than a few more decades of 4-12.

      There’s no meaningful PED testing in that league, everybody on the field is a roided up freak and they’re all crashing into each other hard enough to make sure none of them will be able to tie their own shoes at age 45. It’s a sick sport. And I say this as somebody who is a diehard boxing fan.

      Re: kneeling, nobody gives two shits about the national anthem or “teh troops” or any of that shit. A bunch of racist dumbfucks simply don’t like the idea of a black man getting uppity, period, end of story. And the NFL decided to cater to this mouth breathing element. So they just made it a lot easier for me not to watch.

    41. Ntilakilla

      Also Steve kerr’s comments may play well to the coast but he looks like a big hypocrite based on his own leagues stance on the issue.

      Kerr addressed this issue. I’m no fan of the NBA’s mandate. Hell, if it were up to me there wouldn’t be any public displays of patriotism before sporting events. These are supposed to be leisure activities, not nationalist loyalty tests. I don’t have to recite the Pledge of Allegiance when I go out to a movie or eat at a restaurant.

      But Kerr’s not wrong about the NFL owners. The best they can do is to point to the NBA as their explanation for stopping NFL players from kneeling during the anthem. And Kerr’s saying, “Don’t look to us, we’re a way more progressive group than you are.” And he’s right. The NBA will allow its players to make social and political statements, like when Lebron wore his “I Can’t Breathe” shirt during a Cavaliers pregame. So they’ve earned the leeway among their players to restrict any protest activity during their pregame anthems. NFL owners, on the other hand, regularly penalize their players for expressing any socially controversial views that don’t align with their conservative agenda. Which is why they don’t have the same confidence from many players of color who are socially conscious.

    42. Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada

      Love it when it gets chippy in the KB threads.

      Cosign Jowles, hoola, Ntilikilla, etc.

    43. Ntilakilla

      The NFL can go eat a dick. I’m done with that corrupt soulless entity.

      Just remember whenever some right-winger complains about Kaepernick’s black nationalist disrespect of the anthem, the police and our troops that many of these people were same ones who didn’t bat an eyelash when a player like Riley Cooper was recorded in 2013 as saying “I will jump that fence and fight every nigger here” at a Kenny Chesney concert. The NFL did not suspend Cooper even one game and his employer, the Philadelphia Eagles, even gave him a 5 year/25 million dollar deal the year afterwards. Meanwhile Colin Kaepernick, a former Super Bowl QB, can’t even get a preseason invite to tryout as a backup from any of the NFL’s 32 different teams.

      And that, folks, is how subtly white privilege works.

    44. ClashFan

      I keep waiting for someone to pipe in and call you guys a bunch of snowflakes, treehuggers, SJWs, or whatever.

      I think someone said earlier that there’s not that much racism in the country. Sadly, I must disagree with that notion.

    45. DRed

      GSW have lost some crispness in large part because Houston is playing shockingly good defense. They’ve had some lapses, and they fell apart and got completely smoked in one game, but they’ve been really good.

    46. Ntilakilla

      I think 95% of everyone with a functioning brain wants to get rid of the racist and idiot cops and sympathizes with the players. The disagreement is entirely about the timing and method of protest and what it means.

      ….

      First, I must confess that over the last few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro’s great stumbling block in the stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen’s Council-er or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate who is more devoted to “order” than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says “I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I can’t agree with your methods of direct action;” who paternalistically feels he can set the timetable for another man’s freedom; who lives by the myth of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait until a “more convenient season.”

      Shallow understanding from people of goodwill is more frustrating than absolute misunderstanding from people of ill will. Lukewarm acceptance is much more bewildering than outright rejection.

      Rev. Martin Luther King, Jr., 16 April 1963
      Letter from Birmingham Jail

    47. Cock Jowles, #1 Purveyor of Wanton Chuckery

      I responded to the (baseless, ahistorical, borderline-insidious) argument that this country is not racist with a long list of Wikipedia articles on American racism, but it got flagged and is sitting in moderation.

      You have to be illiterate, ignorant or plain-old fuckin’ evil to believe that this country is free from pervasive systemic racism.

      There are two overlying explanations for the socioeconomic position of black people in this country: they are of lesser mind and genetically lack the capacity to succeed, or that the structures of racism in this country function in such a way as to create the socioeconomic divide between them and other POCs.

      There is no third explanation. You either believe in long-since-debunked scientific racism OR acknowledge the abundance of evidence of systemic racism in America.

    48. Stratomatic "Porzingis, Ntilikina, and Michael Porter are going to lead us to the promised land"

      @35

      You have a right to free speech on your own free time. You do not have a right to free speech at your job. If I was in a public place representing my job and started talking about some political issue I was very passionate about, it wouldn’t matter if you or everyone else here thought I was correct, the company would have a right to suspend or even fire me. At 5:01 I can say whatever I want.

      This is really not that complicated beyond the media inflaming the passions of people that want the same result but want to go about it different ways.

      It’s frustrating and to me to see how the media is manipulating otherwise intelligent people into arguing instead of working together for a result they both want. But this is why I hate the media so much. If I sat at around all day thinking up ways to divide people, mislead people, and otherwise cause chaos I’d have a tough time doing a better job than the media does now.

      Heck, if Russia really wants to cause turmoil in the US, there’s no need to interfere in our elections. They should just be capitalists and provide capital to our media companies so they can expand and do more of what they already doing.

    49. thenoblefacehumper

      If I was in a public place representing my job and started talking about some political issue I was very passionate about it wouldn’t matter if you or everyone else here thought I was correct, the company would have a right to suspend or even fire me.

      If this is true, it’s an incredibly bad sign about the state of labor relations in this country.

      Every single time an oppressive entity sees its victims protesting, it will always claim there is some mystical “good” way to protest that the protestors are foregoing. This happens with literally every protest movement without fail. Jim Crow, apartheid, the Israeli occupation, police brutality and systemic racism in America, you name it. The reality is the oppressive entity is furious that its victims are protesting, and thus calling attention to the issue, in general. Pay no mind to anyone saying they “agree with the message but disagree with the method” or whatever, they’ve been saying this shit for centuries and have never once meant it genuinely.

    50. Ntilakilla

      You have a right to free speech on your own free time. You do not have a right to free speech at your job. If I was in a public place representing my job and started talking about some political issue I was very passionate about it wouldn’t matter if you or everyone else here thought I was correct, the company would have a right to suspend or even fire me. At 5:01 I can say whatever I want.

      Actually, this isn’t fully true. There are protections in place for workers who refuse to participate in politicized workplace activities. An employer doesn’t necessarily have the right to make their employee support their political views. Personally, I find it unconstitutional that the NBA or the NFL mandate their players publicly observe the national anthem. That is a political choice that every individual deserves to make under their own volition. Some people may not feel comfortable observing an anthem which celebrated the defeat of their people’s emancipation at the hands of a slave-owning political leadership. Others may not feel the anthem lives up to the values it is supposed to purport.

    51. Stratomatic "Porzingis, Ntilikina, and Michael Porter are going to lead us to the promised land"

      @55

      I’m 59 years old and have lead a pretty diverse life.

      Over my life I’ve hung out in places frequented by gamblers, thieves, hustlers, murderers, gangsters, hookers, and pimps at one end of the spectrum. I’ve also hung out and been friends with doctors, lawyers, investment bankers, hedge fund managers, accountants, PHDs, and even a few billionaires at the other end.

      I’ve hung out in places where everyone was white and places where I was pretty much the only one that was white.

      I’ve been really good friends and dated the pretty much entire rainbow.

      I’ve seen racism everywhere from all sides, but the vast majority of people I’ve known (and remember I’m older than you so I’ve been exposed to an older generation) are good decent people that don’t give a rats ass what color anyone is, what religion they are, or anything else like it.

      No one is saying the country doesn’t have a racist past or that there still aren’t still racists, but if you think everyone is all fucked up and hates everyone that looks and thinks differently they do it’s YOU that’s fucked up. Most people are good. Most people want to live in a just colorblind society. Our country is mostly very good.

      What people don’t want is drama, their diversions from life’s problems destroyed by politics, or people telling them that all cops are evil, the country is racist, and America sucks. None of that is true.

    52. Cock Jowles, #1 Purveyor of Wanton Chuckery

      I’ve seen racism everywhere from all sides, but the vast majority of people I’ve known (and remember I’m older than you so I’ve been exposed to an older generation) are good decent people that don’t give a rats ass what color anyone is, what religion they are, or anything else like it.

      QED Racism doesn’t exist QED

    53. Stratomatic "Porzingis, Ntilikina, and Michael Porter are going to lead us to the promised land"

      @58

      You are misunderstanding.

      Let’s imagine I passionately pro life. My right to be as active as I want before work, after work, etc… is fully protected. However, if my employer chooses, he can tell me to stop hanging up posters at my desk that could inflame a bunch of other people at my job. On his time, it’s his rules. On my time I can protest the abortion clinic or I can make contributions and volunteer there.

    54. Cock Jowles, #1 Purveyor of Wanton Chuckery

      You have a right to free speech on your own free time. You do not have a right to free speech at your job.

      So what if an employer wants their employees to stand for the pledge and make farting sounds with their mouth in lieu of the words? Since the employees forfeit their rights to free speech at the door, apparently, this should be no problem for you. Voluntary association and all. You want to package American cheese on this factory line? Well, get out your fart kazoos, because that’s how we do it ’round here!

      Politics are frowned upon in places of business because (haha, you’re gonna love this) some political opinions (i.e. Trumpism) carry threatening and/or hostile opinions about people based on identity elements like race, sex, gender, sexuality and age. You cannot fire someone for being a Republican. You can fire someone for being the type of Republican who asks his Latino co-worker to see a form of legal identification to prove his citizenship. You can fire someone for that person telling a woman that she’s going to hell for having had an abortion. You can fire someone for that person saying that Millennials are spoiled brats who’ve never worked a day in their lives.

    55. Jack Bauer

      @53 “GSW have lost some crispness in large part because Houston is playing shockingly good defense. They’ve had some lapses, and they fell apart and got completely smoked in one game, but they’ve been really good”

      Agree 100%, as surprising as it sounds you are so right. Even Harden has been playing good defense for stretches which has totally shocked me. Tonight should be pretty intense. looking forward to it.

      @56 – This. When you’re on the job and getting paid, the employer gets to set the requirements of your employment (within legal boundaries of course). If those requirements are not satisfactory (i.e. wearing a uniform, being on time, standing for the national anthem if you’re on the field, etc.), then find another job. After work you’re free to wear whatever you want and protest to your heart’s content.

    56. Cock Jowles, #1 Purveyor of Wanton Chuckery

      When your main argument against American racism is, “Well, I’ve been around the block,” you know your main argument is pretty fuckin’ stupid.

    57. freethrow

      If you hurt your employers checkbook they’re gonna change whatever you were doing to stop it. Doesn’t matter what you were doing.

    58. Stratomatic "Porzingis, Ntilikina, and Michael Porter are going to lead us to the promised land"

      @57

      You are still missing my point about the media (and so is everyone else apparently which means the media is very good at it’s evil doing).

      I fully understand the perspective of the protesters, but I also understand the perspective of people that are on the same side as the players but would way rather fix these problems away from sports.

      It’s not “you are either with us or you are a racist pig”.

      It’s not ” you are either a patriot or you are protesting America hater”.

      That’s the media creating two sides, putting everyone in one of those boxes, and pitting us all against each other. I am telling you there are good people on both sides of this debate that for various reasons think kneeling is very good or a very bad idea and they all want the same result.

    59. Cock Jowles, #1 Purveyor of Wanton Chuckery

      @56 – This. When you’re on the job and getting paid, the employer gets to set the requirements of your employment (within legal boundaries of course). If those requirements are not satisfactory (i.e. wearing a uniform, being on time, standing for the national anthem if you’re on the field, etc.), then find another job. After work you’re free to wear whatever you want and protest to your heart’s content.

      Let’s say I own a business that sells paper clips. You work for me and I pay you handsomely and on-time.

      Every morning, you walk through the door and I demand that you drop to the ground and do 50 push-ups, kissing the floor each time, while you recite the Prologue of the Canterbury Tales in the original Middle English while affecting a lady’s voice. If you fail to pronoun the diphthongs correctly or your pitch gets down into tenor territory, your hours will be cut and redistributed to the people who perform my tasks satisfactorily.

      You walked through the doors voluntarily, right? So is this legal?

    60. Stratomatic "Porzingis, Ntilikina, and Michael Porter are going to lead us to the promised land"

      When your main argument against American racism is, “Well, I’ve been around the block,” you know your main argument is pretty fuckin’ stupid.

      My argument is that my life experience tells me that America is mostly a great country with mostly great people. I think it’s the greatest country ever, but I think it has flaws and can be even greater. To make it greater we to work together so we can get to the common goal. We can’t be spending all this valuable time and energy fighting over an anthem when we should be fixing the system of recruiting, training, and allocating police officers so no innocent people ever get harassed or murdered because of their skin color again.

    61. Ntilakilla

      No one is saying the country doesn’t have a racist past or that there still aren’t still racists, but if you think everyone is all fucked up and hates everyone that looks and thinks differently they do it’s YOU that’s fucked up. Most people are good. Most people want to live in a just colorblind society. Our country is mostly very good.

      What people don’t want is drama, their diversions from life’s problems destroyed by politics, or people telling them that all cops are evil, the country is racist, and America sucks. None of that is true.

      I can see why you genuinely believe this is true. As the great James Baldwin so eloquently put it, “Being white means never having to think about it.” I don’t think there has ever been a more fundamental truth expressed about race in America before or since. It’s a part of that privilege which allows you – the great wise man of worldly multicultural experience – the gall to so freely speak on what “people want” as if you were an authority on the what they want. What you don’t quite seem to realize is that the many Americans see their diversions from life’s problems destroyed everyday for reasons that are no fault of their own. When a black child cannot play with a toy pistol in a park for fear of being shot dead by a cop, or when someone hesitates to speak Spanish in a restaurant because they will be harassed by ICE, or when someone can’t get a loan to buy a mortgage on a house because of where they live the idea of a “colorblind society” was never an option for them to begin with. And these are not isolated incidences. They are systemic and well-documented. Which is why it is important to remind people like you who want their “diversions from life’s problems” untouched by politics that these aren’t problems we can tune out. Because people are good enough to do something about these things if, and only if, they are moved to act upon what they know in their hearts to be right.

    62. Cock Jowles, #1 Purveyor of Wanton Chuckery

      the idea of a “colorblind society” was never an option for them to begin with

      First, he’d have to acknowledge that acute systemic racism exists. Otherwise, you’re telling him that the sky is blue when he is convinced, by “life experience,” that it’s green.

    63. Donnie Walsh

      I think 95% of everyone with a functioning brain wants to get rid of the racist and idiot cops and sympathizes with the players.

      I understand what you are saying, but, sadly, I think that your 95% estimation is extremely, extremely forgiving of the general American populace.

      the vast majority of people I’ve known (and remember I’m older than you so I’ve been exposed to an older generation) are good decent people that don’t give a rats ass what color anyone is

      The problem with this is that white people don’t “give a rats ass what color anyone is” because it doesn’t matter to them. But it does matter to those that aren’t white, because American society, since it’s birth, has viewed them differently and treated them differently, ever since 1619 when the first slave ships arrived on the continent.

      So, yeah, I’ve heard many decent-hearted white people say “race doesn’t matter”, which, unfortunately, is as divisive as saying that everybody is racist. (And that’s not the media’s fault).

    64. Jack Bauer

      @67 – sounds like a crappy job requirement, I quit.
      If I love my crappy job I might hire a lawyer to see if it’s legal or not.

      The employment market will likely solve the problem – there are either enough people willing to do that for their position selling paper clips or there aren’t. If not the employer may be forced to change the requirement.

    65. Cock Jowles, #1 Purveyor of Wanton Chuckery

      You should be more grateful to your employer, who only wants to exchange money for your labor, which, in this case, includes Chaucer and a bit of gender role-play. Nevermind that it has nothing to do with selling paper clips.

      (Hint: Standing for the pledge has nothing to do with playing football.)

    66. Ntilakilla

      First, he’d have to acknowledge that acute systemic racism exists.

      Okay. Just to give one of many examples to prove systematic non-white discrimination, I will point to the well documented reality of redlining – a banking practice that puts services (financial and otherwise) out of reach for residents of certain areas based on race or ethnicity.

      Aaron Glantz and Emmanuel Martinez, two investigative journalists from The Center for Investigative Reporting, spent a whole year looking over 31 million Home Mortgage Disclosure Act records using peer-reviewed techniques to identify lending disparities across the United States. What they found was that modern-day redlining persisted in 61 metro areas even when controlling for applicants’ income, loan amount and neighborhood. Their research showed black applicants were turned away at significantly higher rates than whites in 48 cities, Latinos in 25, Asians in nine and Native Americans in three. In Washington, D.C., the nation’s capital, the journalists found all four groups were significantly more likely to be denied a home loan than whites.

      This isn’t just an isolated issue. It’s an issue of nonwhite racial groups concentrated in parts of the country being denied access to the same financial opportunities as whites counterparts living in predominantly white parts of the nation. This means that nonwhite families can’t get loans to buy a mortgage on certain houses or to start certain businesses that whites can even when you eliminate for other external variables than race – which limits their opportunity to live in better neighborhoods with more employment opportunity, better educational facilities, less crime and drugs, etc in comparison to their white peers. So here it is – just one blatant example of well documented systemic discrimination.

    67. freethrow

      neither do advertisements but you see them during a game too, because it’s really an advertisement, it’s paid for. That’s part of the nfl’s business model that affords them to write the players such big checks.

      At that point the players are actors for a live ad, paid for and it shows up in their checks.

    68. glidepath

      There’s a right way and a wrong way to effectively make a point. Even when you all agree on the contents of that point. See Ntilikilla vs. Jowles for example.

    69. rama, king of superfluous poppycock

      Strat, as my post from a couple days ago verifies, I hate the media almost as much as you. But when it comes to racism, media isn’t the problem. Trump still has 35% approval because 1) people don’t know or understand what is happening, and 2) they really hate black people. Both ignorance and racism are as American as apple pie.

    70. rama, king of superfluous poppycock

      Also, I am pretty sure that both sides don’t “want the same thing.”

    71. hoolahoop

      I just don’t get why the people who get their panties in a bunch about a football player kneeling during the national anthem to bring attention to the unnecessary police violence towards black men, aren’t expressing their outrage at the unnecessary police violence towards black men.

      Yeah, they acknowledge it’s not right, but seem a lot more pissed off by the black man kneeling, passively asking for his civil rights.
      Well, I’M FUCKIN OUTRAGED AT UNNECESSARY RACIST POLICE BRUTALITY. IT’S NOT OKAY!!!!!

    72. freethrow

      Obviously not everyone agrees on what “justified” means or which ones are or are not justified, so it’s not as black and white as some people make it out to be.

    73. Brian Cronin

      Besides the ton of links in Jowles’ comment, I dunno what’s been flagging some of the comments today. They’re all cleared up now.

    74. glidepath

      For the record, rama, “the same thing” refers to “ending police brutality”

      No one in the world is opposed to ending police brutality. Except for the guilty parties in the police. Fuck the police

    75. JK47

      My argument is that my life experience tells me that America is mostly a great country with mostly great people.

      That’s weird, because I have “life experience” similar to yours, and I’m 46 years old, so I’ve been around a proverbial block or two. And I can tell you that where I come from, which was white middle-class suburbia, racism and shitty people were fucking RAMPANT. Casual racism was the absolute norm, and it hasn’t gotten any better since in the shitty suburban town I grew up in. It’s just as racist and small minded and hateful as it ever was.

      My hometown (Fort Lauderdale) is not exceptional in any way and it’s not a particularly Deep South kind of place. Broward County is in fact one of the more progressive places in Florida. And it’s STILL racist as fuck, right now, in 2018.

    76. Cock Jowles, #1 Purveyor of Wanton Chuckery

      I sat at a lunch table two weeks ago during a trade show and heard one of my competitors say, in the course of normal conversation, that he’d like to shoot all Portland liberals. I was sitting right there. But nah, you right: we’re all working toward the game goals, same idea of America.

      No one opposes police brutality! If this is true, it’s only because about half of the American population could watch a video of Rodney King being beaten by men with badges and say, “Welp, no brutality here!”

    77. thenamestsam

      To hear strat, a guy who is so rigorously data-centric in his NBA analysis say in all seriousness “Ignore the mountains of evidence about widespread and systemic racism in America, my personal anecdotal experience tells me that actually most people are nice and good” is…jarring.

    78. Ntilakilla

      Yeah, they acknowledge it’s not right, but seem a lot more pissed off by the black man kneeling, passively asking for his civil rights.

      Because the issue for many of Kaepernick’s critics isn’t his kneeling or how it is “disrespecting the flag.” I don’t buy that pretext for one minute since many of these people never complained before about the many people heading to concession stands or turning to another channel when the anthem plays before a game. What most seem to be mad about is the fact that a black man who makes far more money than they do, playing a kid’s game, has the nerve to be anything else than eternally subservient for his lot. Forget that the NFL is a billion dollar industry his hard work contributes to. To them such a man should just shut up, smile and amuse them like the paid performer that he is. Forget that such man is a human being with feelings and opinions of his own. He should accept what his employer tells him to do, even if it runs counter to his political beliefs and his constitutional rights. The sad truth in this country is that many Americans couldn’t care less for the athletes who look like Colin Kaepernick unless they are throwing a ball on Sundays. And the problem is that so little a thing as a simple knee in protest humanizes Kaepernick as more than a “thing,” it makes him a human being with a controversial social agenda independent of that neat little package which the NFL markets him as. Football has become a sacred secular holiday in our nation and Kaepernick is blaspheming in church by bringing the world’s problems into a stadium during their televised mass spectacle.

    79. Aten

      Lots of fist-pump lines in the thread today. It’s a fucking shame that a fanbase so squarely on the right side of history can’t get a team to match.

    80. Dough Chew [dolan pls]

      “Colorblindedness” is an ideal rooted in white supremacy and institutional racism.

      You don’t see my color? You don’t see me as a whole, complete person. I’m a second-generation Chinese-American and I wouldn’t trade my ethnic and cultural heritage for anything. I don’t want to be the same as everyone else. I don’t want everyone to be the same as me. I want to celebrate our differences together. Not sand them down into nothing.

      Also, America is a country founded on the explicitly racist and sexist ideological principle that the only humans afforded the dignity of legal personhood were white landowning males. We’ve been suffering the fallout of such an origin ever since.

    81. Knick fan not in NJ at this time

      You walked through the doors voluntarily, right? So is this legal?

      If it’s what you hired to do or in the nature of what you were hired to do, yes. Say you worked on a cruise ship entertaining passengers, and the show director decided it would entertain passengers for you to do that, then it would be your job to do that, even if you thought it absurd. The NFL is in the entertainment business and wants to make its fans happy, so I think it’s legal for them too. You could make a case that the NFL’s new policy is a change in terms of employment for those already hired. In principle, it’s the same as being asked to sign a non compete agreement after being hired instead of being asked to sign one as a condition of being hired. Then the NFL is supposed to provide some compensation for their change to their employment conditions and give players the chance to decline the change and the additional compensation. But I think this is a hard case to make.

    82. Cock Jowles, #1 Purveyor of Wanton Chuckery

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dred_Scott_v._Sandford

      Judgment reversed and suit dismissed for lack of jurisdiction.

      Persons of African descent cannot be, nor were ever intended to be, citizens under the U.S. Const. Plaintiff is without standing to file a suit.

      The Property Clause is only applicable to lands possessed at the time of ratification (1787). As such, Congress cannot ban slavery in the territories. Missouri Compromise is unconstitutional.

      Due Process Clause of the Fifth Amendment prohibits the federal government from freeing slaves brought into federal territories.

      Persons of African descent cannot be, nor were ever intended to be, citizens under the Constitution.

      But America’s not racist.

    83. Ntilakilla

      I just read that Disney is going to make a Boba Fett prequel movie. What the hell is wrong with the people there heading the Star Wars franchise? Its like they don’t have original idea in their brains and can only offer movie audiences a rehash of the same 5 popular supporting characters. Someone should remind them that they have an entire fucking galaxy to play with and expand upon in their cinematic universe. I never thought I’d yearn for the days when Lucas was solely in charge of the property but here we are.

    84. Z-man

      NYC, liberal bastion that it is, has the most segregated public school system in the country.

    85. freethrow

      “colorblind is really racist and white supremecist” means MLK was racist, that’s just inter sectional gobbly gook talking.

    86. Stratomatic "Porzingis, Ntilikina, and Michael Porter are going to lead us to the promised land"

      To hear strat, a guy who is so rigorously data-centric in his NBA analysis say in all seriousness “Ignore the mountains of evidence about widespread and systemic racism in America, my personal anecdotal experience tells me that actually most people are nice and good” is…jarring.

      Another of an endless number of misunderstandings.

      My data tells me that if the vast majority of the people are good, I should not hold an entire country responsible for the percent that is not. That’s not the same as saying there is no racism.

      I had this same debate when it came to the Catholic Church and abusive priests.

      I pointed out that the data I had seen at that time suggested 6% of all priests, bishops etc.. engaged in sexual abuse or covered it up. I wanted to hold that 6% responsible but not severely damage an institution that was otherwise doing a lot of good work around the world. (6% was more or less in line with other institutions). Others disagreed and held the entire institution responsible and called it evil.

      I hold the liberal ideal of judging individuals by their own heart in high regard.

    87. Jack Bauer

      On a basketball related note – What about that Rockets vs. Warriors game tonight? Should be intense.

      I have some fantastic paper clips for sale if anyone is interested

    88. Dough Chew [dolan pls]

      @96

      Tell me about Dr. King’s theology and political philosophy without referring to the “I Have a Dream” speech, my guy. I want to hear more of your knowledge about the man.

    89. Stratomatic "Porzingis, Ntilikina, and Michael Porter are going to lead us to the promised land"

      Yeah, they acknowledge it’s not right, but seem a lot more pissed off by the black man kneeling, passively asking for his civil rights.

      I wish the most elegant and informed spokesperson for the NFL, NBA, and every other major sports team that understands all the data controlled for race, crime, and other factors would organize themselves and appear on every right wing radio and television show and lay out their case for what we are doing wrong and their best ideas for fixing it.

      I’d bet any amount of money they’d be invited with open arms. They might face a little push back if they are spinning data or not controlling properly, but I guarantee that would be a more productive use of time and energy than kneeling at this point.

      It’s likely the initial kneels were necessary to get a conversation started, but right now they are about the least productive thing anyone could possibly do. The media has already created two dug in sides.

      1. Those that are pissed off that white owners are telling players they can’t kneel to protest police brutality .

      2. Those that are pissed off because they don’t want to mix politics and sports or because they have extreme loyalties to the flag and country.

      You know what’s getting accomplished this way?

      NADA!

      You know who’s happy?

      The media and others that want to divide us.

    90. Ben R

      The important question with the NFL and the anthem isn’t can they force their players to stand but should they.

      They absolutely should not and frankly I don’t care if it’s legal I care that it’s wrong. People aren’t angry about the anthem, they are angry about ungrateful, millionaire, black men having the gall to have an opinion. How dare they not just shut up and dance.

      The one upside of Trump is he has emboldened many of the racists in this country to show their faces. It has brought all that ugliness out of the shadows so the rest of mainstream white America can see what many of us already knew; that this country is still very, very racist and has a long, long way to go.

    91. Stratomatic "Porzingis, Ntilikina, and Michael Porter are going to lead us to the promised land"

      Okay. Just to give one of many examples to prove systematic non-white discrimination, I will point to the well documented reality of redlining – a banking practice that puts services (financial and otherwise) out of reach for residents of certain areas based on race or ethnicity.

      There are well documented cases of red lining in insurance also, but it’s not race based. They don’t care what color you are, what your income is, what you net worth is, or anything else. They look at the results in various locations. If they can’t make an underwriting profit in a certain locations they will try to avoid selling insurance in those locations. People that are motivated by money can be just as racist as anyone else, but many will set aside their racism to make an extra buck. Few of them are willing to take a loss.

    92. Owen

      The anthem issue has absolutely nothing to do with the First Amendment

      But yeah, the NFL can go fuck itself for many reasons. May it go the way of NASCAR.

    93. Stratomatic "Porzingis, Ntilikina, and Michael Porter are going to lead us to the promised land"

      Source? Because that seems like bullshit.

      I did my research during the heat of the scandal and at the time had plenty of research articles bookmarked and at my disposal. My interest has long since dissipated, but this is from wikipedia. Either further studies showed it was actually less than 6% or my memory failed me. Now they say 4%.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church_sexual_abuse_cases

      “According to a 2004 research study by the John Jay College of Criminal Justice for the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops, 4,392 Catholic priests and deacons in active ministry between 1950 and 2002 have been plausibly (neither withdrawn nor disproven) accused by 10,667 individuals of the sexual abuse of a youth under the age of 18. Estimating the number of priests and deacons active in the same period at 110,000, the report concluded that approximately 4% have faced these allegations. The report noted that “It is impossible to determine from our surveys what percent of all actual cases of abuse that occurred between 1950 and 2002 have been reported to the Church and are therefore in our dataset.”[39] The Augustin Cardinal Bea, S.J. specializes in abuse counseling and is considered an expert on clerical abuse; he states “approximately 4% of priests during the past half century (and mostly in the 1960s and 1970s) have had a sexual experience with a minor.”[40][41] According to Newsweek magazine, this figure is similar to the rate of frequency in the rest of the adult population.[42]

    94. Stratomatic "Porzingis, Ntilikina, and Michael Porter are going to lead us to the promised land"

      I did my research during the heat of the scandal and at the time had plenty of research articles bookmarked and at my disposal. My interest has long since dissipated, but this is from wikipedia. Either further studies showed it was actually less than 6% or my memory failed me. Now they say 4%.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church_sexual_abuse_cases

      “According to a 2004 research study by the John Jay College of Criminal Justice for the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops, 4,392 Catholic priests and deacons in active ministry between 1950 and 2002 have been plausibly (neither withdrawn nor disproven) accused by 10,667 individuals of the sexual abuse of a youth under the age of 18. Estimating the number of priests and deacons active in the same period at 110,000, the report concluded that approximately 4% have faced these allegations. The report noted that “It is impossible to determine from our surveys what percent of all actual cases of abuse that occurred between 1950 and 2002 have been reported to the Church and are therefore in our dataset.”[39] The Augustin Cardinal Bea, S.J. specializes in abuse counseling and is considered an expert on clerical abuse; he states “approximately 4% of priests during the past half century (and mostly in the 1960s and 1970s) have had a sexual experience with a minor.”[40][41] According to Newsweek magazine, this figure is similar to the rate of frequency in the rest of the adult population.[42]

    95. Stratomatic "Porzingis, Ntilikina, and Michael Porter are going to lead us to the promised land"

      Source? Because that seems like bullshit.

      I did my research during the heat of the scandal and at the time had plenty of research articles bookmarked and at my disposal. My interest has long since dissipated, but this is from wikipedia. Either further studies showed it was actually less than 6% or my memory failed me. Now they say 4%.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church_sexual_abuse_cases

    96. JK47

      I pointed out that the data I had seen at that time suggested 6% of all priests, bishops etc.. engaged in sexual abuse or covered it up.

      Umm, 6% is an APPALLINGLY high number. That is not a real good number to cite if you’re making the case that “the Catholic Church does a great job, only 1 in 20 of the clergy are sexual predators.”

      Edit: 4% is also disgustingly high.

      Would you send your kid to a school where 4% of the teachers are sexual predators?
      Sheesh. This is a brutal thread for you.

    97. Stratomatic "Porzingis, Ntilikina, and Michael Porter are going to lead us to the promised land"

      There are well documented cases of red lining in insurance also, but it’s not race based. They don’t care what color you are, what your income is, what you net worth is, or anything else. They look at the results in various locations. If they can’t make an underwriting profit in a certain locations they will try to avoid selling insurance in those locations. People that are motivated by money can be just as racist as anyone else, but many will set aside their racism to make an extra buck. Few people of any type are willing to take a loss.

    98. Stratomatic "Porzingis, Ntilikina, and Michael Porter are going to lead us to the promised land"

      @109

      My only problem in this thread has been people not understanding what I am saying.

      Are you incapable?

      4% is the number of priests guilty of sexual abuse.

      4% is the number of people in the general population guilty of sexual abuse.

      That means 96% of the priests in the world are not guilty of sexual abuse and are doing good work.

      I choose not to hate all public schools, the senate, the congress, all judges, IBM, McDonalds, or the Catholic Church etc.. because approximately 4% of its employees are guilty of sexual abuse. I want the guilty individuals punished, reforms made, and the good people to continue doing good work.

      I also don’t hate the United States because some people are racist. I hate the individual racists and want reform.

      Maybe that’s too nuanced for angry people to understand.

    99. Nick C.

      Also, America is a country founded on the explicitly racist and sexist ideological principle that the only humans afforded the dignity of legal personhood were white landowning males. We’ve been suffering the fallout of such an origin ever since.

      I’m not sure that’s quite the way I’d put it. After all people could have stayed where they were if that was the primary focus, since those places were no different at the time.

    100. Stratomatic "Porzingis, Ntilikina, and Michael Porter are going to lead us to the promised land"

      I also don’t think it’s correct to hold the people alive today responsible for the sins of the past. For example, when when this country was founded and enslaving people God only knows where my ancestors were. Based on my recent DNA test a least one was in North Africa because I’m 3% African.

      Who knew? lmao

      But seriously, many if not most of the white people in this country today are descended from people that came to his country in the last 100 years. None of those people are responsible for anything that has happened in this country other than what they personally have done.

    101. Cock Jowles, #1 Purveyor of Wanton Chuckery

      I’m not sure that’s quite the way I’d put it. After all people could have stayed where they were if that was the primary focus, since those places were no different at the time.

      But seriously, many if not most of the white people in this country today are descended from people that came to his country in the last 100 years. None of those people are responsible for anything that has happened in this country other than what they personally have done.

      Bullshit. Total, unadulterated bullshit. You really think the sky is green, and I feel sorry for you for being so ignorant to how racism works. Your “years of experience” brought you to this point, in which you are fundamentally incapable of understanding how complicity works under systemic oppression.

      The irony is that by claiming that racism isn’t real/isn’t a big deal/happened to other people, not black people today or in the future — you are complicit in aiding racist ideology. Isn’t that hilarious?

      And let me also tell you with certainty, as a person whose partner worked in the DNA testing world for years: any percent breakdown of your ancestry is pure fiction and you wasted your money.

    102. kevin5318

      Doesn’t matter if its 4-6% since a larger chunk of that group is complicit in covering it up. Same with “good” cops not holding their peers responsible when they abuse their power.

    103. Donnie Walsh

      I also don’t think it’s correct to hold the people alive today responsible for the sins of the past. For example, when when this country was founded and enslaving people God only knows where my ancestors were.

      I know from years of reading your basketball analysis that you are a smart, reasonable, intellectually curious individual. Which is very hard for me to balance with your apparent inability to recognize that, even though you’re not responsible for the sins of your anscetors, that you have still benefited greatly from it. And until white men make the very simple and relatively painless first step of recognizing this inequity, then there will be none of the healing and reform that you are wishing for.

    104. Dough Chew [dolan pls]

      It is most certainly the responsibility of white Americans to deal with the structural racism this country was built on. They might not be personally at fault for creating these circumstances. No one chooses what race they’re born into. But white Americans are responsible for the unearned rights, unearned access, and unearned authority that comes from being born white in America, as Brene Brown puts it.

    105. JK47

      We’re expecting America to learn from her racist past? Hell, there’s about half of the country that is downright nostalgic for it. Make America Great Again and all that, you know. That’s what that schmaltzy red hat is all about. Putting the darkies in their place.

    106. Cock Jowles, #1 Purveyor of Wanton Chuckery

      The very first step to making things right? Acknowledging that racism exists. Until that happens, there is nothing to do.

    107. dtrickey

      Really hope the CP3 injury isn’t serious. Warriors were brutal today. Gave up a lot of good looks to Houston.

    108. Brian Cronin

      Man, the Rockets seem like they haven’t caught a single break during the playoffs since Nick Anderson missed those four free throws back in 1995! They take a 3-2 lead and lose one of their most important players in the process! I don’t think Paul’s injury is too severe, but it’s almost certainly too severe for him to play in Game 6.

    109. djphan

      i’m hoping cp3 isn’t done because that looked like his hammy rolled up on him…. he’s been playing his heart out….

    110. Brian Cronin

      I doubt he’s DONE, but I suspect he’s done for this series. At least Game 6.

    111. djphan

      and that would be a shame… he’s been incredibly gritty the entire series… he probably has not been even 80% after game 1… and despite how uncharacteristically ugly it’s been he’s managed to piece together some high quality games on will, craftiness… and probably a little desperation in there…. it’s been an endearing performance and he deserves to see the end of it….

    112. Brian Cronin

      Chris Paul shimmying at Curry after he made the tough three was classic.

      Rick Spears said that Paul says that he’ll be okay for Game 6. I’d like to believe it, but I just don’t see it.

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