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Saturday, June 23, 2018

Knicks Morning News (2018.02.09)

  • [NY Newsday] Undermanned Knicks blown out by Raptors, fall season-worst 10 games under .500
    (Thursday, February 08, 2018 11:43:22 PM)

    TORONTO — There could be many nights like Thursday for the Knicks now that Kristaps Porzingis is out for the season.

  • [NY Newsday] Knicks acquire Emmanuel Mudiay in three-team trade
    (Thursday, February 08, 2018 10:48:42 PM)

    The Knicks suddenly have a logjam at point guard. They acquired former lottery pick Emmanuel Mudiay in a three-team trade Thursday, according to league sources.

  • [NY Newsday] Frank Ntilikina not worried about Knicks’ trade for point guard Emmanuel Mudiay
    (Thursday, February 08, 2018 8:01:21 PM)

    TORONTO — Frank Ntilikina doesn’t seem threatened by the Knicks’ acquisition of point guard Emmanuel Mudiay. The rookie said he looks forward to playing with him.

  • [NYPost] Frank Ntilikina sounds OK with his new guard competition
    (Thursday, February 08, 2018 8:22:41 PM)

    TORONTO — Knicks rookie Frank Ntilikina reacted with his usual nonchalance about the Knicks trading for another young point guard — Emmanuel Mudiay — at Thursday’s trade deadline. “It’s good — a young player, good for our future,” Ntilikina said before the Knicks’ 113-88 loss to the Raptors at Air Canada Centre. “We both can…

  • [NYPost] Porzingis-less Knicks pounded by powerhouse Raptors
    (Thursday, February 08, 2018 5:00:31 PM)

    TORONTO — This hopeless season carried on for the Knicks without Kristaps Porzingis, but the result was same old, same old in “O Canada.” With Tim Hardaway Jr. mired in a perplexing shooting slump, the Raptors rolled to their fifth straight win over the Knicks on Thursday at Air Canada Centre, routing the depleted club…

  • [NYPost] Why Knicks picked Emmanuel Mudiay over Elfrid Payton
    (Thursday, February 08, 2018 12:34:26 PM)

    TORONTO — In the end, the Knicks were intrigued by a lottery-pick point guard the franchise passed on in 2015 and a lottery-pick point guard GM Scott Perry once selected in Orlando. The Knicks were in the ballgame for both Emmanuel Mudiay and Elfrid Payton, the athletic penetrator with the high-rise hair. The Knicks wound…

  • [NYPost] Knicks acquire Emmanuel Mudiay from Nuggets
    (Thursday, February 08, 2018 9:13:26 AM)

    TORONTO — The Knicks felt they needed an athletic point guard who can penetrate to open the court for Kristaps Porzingis, and they netted one before Thursday’s trade deadline in Emmanuel Mudiay, the disappointing 2015 lottery pick. In a three-way deal, the Knicks gave up Doug McDermott, who goes to Dallas. The Knicks also shipped…

  • [NYPost] Courtney Lee wants to save Knicks, not run from them
    (Thursday, February 08, 2018 6:58:45 AM)

    TORONTO — The co-captain isn’t looking to abandon the sinking ship. Knicks shooting guard Courtney Lee said despite Kristaps Porzingis’ ACL tear that ended his season and likely will affect the first section of next season, he wants to be here. The Knicks are looking at a more significant rebuild than previously envisioned with Porzingis’…

  • [NYTimes] Knicks Acquire Emmanuel Mudiay From Denver Nuggets in Three-Team Trade
    (Friday, February 09, 2018 4:22:41 AM)

    The deal will also send Knicks small forward Doug McDermott to the Dallas Mavericks.

  • [NYTimes] Cavaliers Dealing Isaiah Thomas to Lakers and Dwyane Wade to Heat in Radical Restructuring
    (Thursday, February 08, 2018 8:21:58 PM)

    Cleveland’s N.B.A. trade deadline deals involve 11 players, five teams and two draft picks. Thomas had been vocal about conflict among Cavaliers players.

  • [SNY Knicks] Tim Hardaway Jr.: Tank is not in my vocabulary
    (Thursday, February 08, 2018 11:40:16 PM)

    Tim Hardaway Jr. has strong words for anyone rooting for the Knicks to tank.

  • [SNY Knicks] Larry Brown says Emmanuel Mudiay will benefit from change of scenery with Knicks
    (Thursday, February 08, 2018 10:45:31 PM)

    Larry Brown believes that Emmanuel Mudiay will benefit from the change of scenery from his trade to the Knicks and that he can play with Frank Ntilikina.

  • [SNY Knicks] Knicks lose to Raptors 113-88 in first game since Porzingis injury
    (Thursday, February 08, 2018 10:15:27 PM)

    The Knicks were blown out 113-88 by the Raptors in their first game since Kristaps Porzingis’ injury.

  • [SNY Knicks] Hornacek says Ntilikina could start this season
    (Thursday, February 08, 2018 8:25:57 PM)

    Jeff Hornacek said that Frank Ntilikina could start later in the year.

  • [SNY Knicks] Report: Knicks explored deal for Payton before Mudiay
    (Thursday, February 08, 2018 7:30:20 PM)

    The Knicks reportedly tried to acquire Elfrid Payton before trading for Emmanuel Mudiay.

  • [SNY Knicks] Tonight’s game: Knicks at Raptors, 7:30 p.m.
    (Thursday, February 08, 2018 6:00:20 PM)

    After losing Kristaps Porzingis to injury as well as trading Willy Hernangomez and Doug McDermott, the Knicks return to the court against the Raptors.

  • [SNY Knicks] Report: Knicks acquire Mudiay in trade for McDermott
    (Thursday, February 08, 2018 2:15:32 PM)

    New York will also send the Nuggets a future second-round draft pick as part of the deal.

  • [SNY Knicks] Forbes lists Knicks as most valuable NBA franchise
    (Thursday, February 08, 2018 9:01:45 AM)

    The Knicks have held their spot on the throne as Forbes’ most valuable NBA franchise for 2018. This is the third straight year New York has been atop the list.

  • [ESPN] Knicks forced to take long view after Kristaps Porzingis’ injury
    (Friday, February 09, 2018 2:45:43 AM)

    Adding Emmanuel Mudiay at the deadline was more about acquiring an asset than a great fit as the Knicks shift their to focus to 2018-19 and beyond.

  • [ESPN] Trade grades: Will Emmanuel Mudiay rebound with the Knicks?
    (Thursday, February 08, 2018 3:30:49 PM)

    Who won the Knicks-Nuggets-Mavs deal featuring Emmanuel Mudiay? Kevin Pelton grades the trade.

  • [ESPN] Knicks get Mudiay in deal with Nuggets, Mavs
    (Thursday, February 08, 2018 2:13:30 PM)

    The Knicks have acquired guard Emmanuel Mudiay as part of a three-team trade that sends Devin Harris to the Nuggets and Doug McDermott to the Mavericks.

  • [NYDN] Tim Hardaway Jr.’s shooting troubles continue in latest loss
    (Thursday, February 08, 2018 7:58:56 PM)

    Hardaway Jr.’s funk won’t stop him from pulling the trigger.

  • [NYDN] Michael Beasley’ scores 21 as Knicks fall to Raptors, 113-88
    (Thursday, February 08, 2018 7:58:14 PM)

    The Sixers claimed “Trust the Process” and the Knicks are going to have to come up with their own slogan with the way this is shaking out.

  • [NYDN] Knicks land Emmanuel Mudiay, trade Doug McDermott in 3-team deal
    (Thursday, February 08, 2018 7:57:30 PM)

    So much for Frank Ntilikina being the point guard of the future.

  • [NYDN] Knicks throw Mudiay a 2nd chance while Ntilikina waits for first
    (Thursday, February 08, 2018 7:49:45 PM)

    The Knicks certainly conduct business as if the point guard position is a major area of concern, no?

  • [NYDN] Time for Knicks to embrace the tank, so stop talking playoffs
    (Thursday, February 08, 2018 8:40:05 AM)

    The Sixers claimed “Trust the Process” and the Knicks are going to have to come up with their own slogan with the way this is shaking out.

  • 204 comments on “Knicks Morning News (2018.02.09)

    1. thenoblefacehumper

      Sole possession of 9th! In most drafts that’s nothing special, but there are some guys I really like in that range this year. Wendell Carter might sneakily be the best big in the draft.

      The difference between 9th and, say, 12th is so enormous in this draft that anything short of active tanking measures could be franchise ruining. We should avoid playing Kanter, Lee, and KOQ much…but we won’t.

    2. Max

      We are actively tanking, we played Hardaway and Lee (5-20 in 57 minutes) instead of Burke and Dotson…
      The youngster are better than the vets, they could put the tank in jeopardy…
      :-)

      We lost by 25 In a game in which Lowry and DeRozan combined for 4-21, if this was november this blog will be in a riot, no need to panic.

    3. Totes McGoats is so G he pours Pepsi in a Coke bottle

      I bet Perry had a HUGE sigh of relief. Now there’s no pressure- as in half the fans sayin “TANK!” and the vets and other half of the fans sayin “PLAYOFFS!”. He can now breathe alot easier and just work. Considering the timeline for KP’s return, you really can’t question bringin in Mudiay. Personally, I hate losing McBuckets, but Mudiay is such a low risk- high reward move, there’s not much to argue. My only real issue with Perry’s deadline moves is the return for Hernangomez. I feel like it was too risky and that he should have gotten a better return by sending him to a team that actually has room to use him. It wasn’t an awful return, I just expected more.

      I wanted to see Lee moved so that our young guards can get minutes- especially since Mudiay and Ntilikina can play both guard spots. But considering that Dotson can play some 3, I think Hornacek will figure it out. He was at his best in Phoenix when he had a surplus of PG’s..now he has 4 on the active roster who all should play. I think those guys need Jack, so waiving him shouldn’t be an option unless he moves into an assistant coach role. I’m excited for the rest of the season now. Let’s see what ya got Hornacek! Show us you can coach, because if you don’t- Perry has no ties to you and will likely dump you at season’s end.

    4. Frank

      @1 – agree completely. Draft is a bit of a crapshoot of course, but between Miles Bridges, Mikal Bridges, and Wendell Carter likely being available there, I feel like we’ll get a really good player.

      Didn’t realize Carter could shoot the ball that well. Per 36 of 19.6p/13r/2.8a/2.5b is pretty unreal to go along with his eFG of 64.6 and BPM of +13.9. Question is whether he and KP can play together consistently. I don’t have those questions about the Bridges’ brothers – Miles looks like he could easily be that 3/4 swing guy, and Mikal could be the defensive stopper + 3 point guy that any team needs.

      The key will be for us to stay within the top 9 so even if a team jumps us we don’t need to be thinking about another true center (Williams), PG (Sexton), or suboptimal wings (Musa, Troy Brown, etc). Naturally those guys could end up being amazing, but as of now it feels like there are 10 guys in the draft that are as sure things as the draft can bring.

      Hard to imagine us getting higher than 9 though — the only teams that could theoretically jump us would be Brooklyn and maybe Orlando who is 5-5 in their last 10.

      Interesting debut from Luke Kornet last night. He really covers ground pretty well on defense, seemed fundamentally pretty solid, and if I remember correctly, blocked 4 shots AND kept them all in-bounds. Has a pretty quick release on his 3 and isn’t afraid to shoot it. He’s pretty interesting.

    5. Zanzibar

      Phil’s draft record has started to take a hit of late. We drafted Jerian at #19 but should have chosen Delon Wright at #20 or Tyus Jones at #24. We gave up two 2RPs picks to draft WHG and we just received two 2RPs. KP’s health is a question mark. But maybe Kornet is the real deal. If so I’d feel better about starting the 2019-20 season with KOQ on a cheap deal and Kornet at center. The 3 killer K’s (Kyle, KP, and Kornet) would be a nice Phil legacy.

    6. Max

      The problem is that we have already won too much,
      it will be difficult to slide to 8th,
      that 8 teams really suck, maybe Carlisle and Cuban will help us…

      We’re in a five games losing streak,
      as much as I understand tanking I hope we will not go 0-26 and lose 31 consecutive games, it’s not healthy for the young players and for our already low image in the League (read: future free agents and even draft picks, remember when KP refuse to showcase for Philadelphia?)
      Looking at the schedule we could go 4-22 effortlessy but it’s hard that any one of the other members of Tank Army will win 9 or 10…

    7. Stratomatic says "It's tough being us"

      I can’t wait to see the backcourt combination of Mudiay and Frank just for the comedy aspects of it. We might break the NBA turnover record for a backcourt.

    8. Farfa

      As much as I don’t get why we’re still playing Jarrett Jack, some of Frank’s turnovers are mind-boggling

    9. Zanzibar

      I hope Knicks didn’t pass up a deal for Courtney involving an expiring contract (Thibs?). First, we may have lost an opportunity to use his cap for a value signing, a rental, or a 1and1 signing. But perhaps more important is that he’s gonna really gonna gum up the works. How are we gonna find minutes for Dotson, Frank and Baker because you know Knicks are not gonna bench Lee. Here’s a possible minutes distribution without him:
      1: Mudiay (25) Frank (15) Burke (8)
      2: Dotson (20) Frank (15) Baker (13)
      3: Timmy (28) Draft Pick? Hezonja?

      I’m not sure trying to trade him this summer works all that well. If a contender wanted him for the playoffs this year, they just lost that and his value should be diminished for that reason and his advancing age. He’s also regressing hard at the moment which won’t help. And there will be no expiring contracts so we’ve lost the opportunity to use his cap this summer for a value signing, a rental, a 1and1 deal. There maaaay be an opportunity to swap him for Cole right after TWolves are knocked out of playoffs but I’m not sure how that partial guarantee would work .

      Veteran leadership is not enough to outweigh those negatives. Just gather all the youngins once a week in a conference room and Skype Noah from his home to give a motivational speech.

    10. Zanzibar

      As much as I don’t get why we’re still playing Jarrett Jack, some of Frank’s turnovers are mind-boggling

      Frank needs to go the G League right away and Mudiay/Burke should take his minutes. The Westchester season I believe is gonna end soon so we shouldn’t miss this opportunity. A stint there would not even be mostly about developing certain skills but rather expediting the process of changing this kid’s whole mindset. He’s gotta be more aggressive and he’s gotta take open shots. Let him transform himself in a low pressure environment outside of the MSG spotlight.

    11. Stratomatic says "It's tough being us"

      I don’t think we have to worry much about minutes until next year. By the time that happens there will be an entirely new pecking order resulting from our draft picks and any trades and FA signings. There will be winners and losers.

      Baker seems like a great kid. I love how hard he plays, but if we are worried about his minutes next year we probably did something else wrong.

      I’m more worried about how poorly Hardaway is playing. His contract takes us well into the period when we hope to start to making some noise. We are spending a lot too much for a guy that should be coming off the bench.

      Sometimes after an injury you have a couple of good games on adrenaline and then you dip because your timing and shot are off. I’m hoping that’s it. But the reality is that he seems to be impacted mentally by how things are going and it makes matters worse.

      The Baker contract wasn’t smart, but it’s not damaging. Hardaway’s is starting to look like a problem.

    12. Brian Cronin

      Yeah, Timmy’s contract was always bad, but he’s not even seeming to give it the ol’ college try lately. He’s just been goddawful. Perhaps he really is still suffering from effects from that head injury he had the other week? He’s been playing like dogshit since that injury. Seems unlikely that that is the cause, but, hey, a lot of what we Knick fans have to do is grasp at straws to explain why the Knicks suck so much. ;)

    13. Farfa

      I think THJ should be fine once we play him alongside a competent SF. Right now there’s something wrong with his head, and I think a couple games off wouldn’t hurt.

    14. Brian Cronin

      But they won’t play him alongside a competent SF because they are bizarrely committed to keeping Lee here until someone gives them a first rounder for him and the fact that that hasn’t happened yet certainly doesn’t bode well for it happening as Lee gets older (and more expensive! Always a strong combo!).

    15. The Glass Half Rebuilt

      I think it’s telling that the asking prices on Lee and O’Quinn were higher than the asking price on Hernangomez. It looked like a joke that they sold him for a bag of magic beans, but watching Kornet play makes it look a lot less crazy. Kornet’s development and the salvaging of Trey Burke’s game make me hopeful that the G League might actually be a place to develop guys and not just a joke. I really hope the Knicks know what they’re doing with Frank Ntilikina because the G League isn’t looking wasteful the way it did as recent as last year.

      Another thing is Kanter, Kornet, and O’Quinn might keep the Knicks from investing a lotto pick in Wendell Carter. I think we’ll end up low enough to take Michael Porter Jr or Trae Young, but unless it’s Mo Bamba or DeAndre Ayton, I don’t see how the Knicks justify drafting a 5 with so much depth at that position.

    16. Farfa

      Phil and Mills, shooting themselves in the foot repeatedly!

      Well, at least we’ll get to see Kornet launch a lot of threes. I hope.

    17. Farfa

      I also have to say that if I hadn’t to watch Jarrett Jack and Lance Thomas this team might still be fun anyway. Beasley is a lot of fun by himself. Especially when we’re not trying to win

    18. thenoblefacehumper

      Another thing is Kanter, Kornet, and O’Quinn might keep the Knicks from investing a lotto pick in Wendell Carter.

      This would be mind-bogglingly stupid.

      So yeah, probably.

    19. Brian Cronin

      I think it’s telling that the asking prices on Lee and O’Quinn were higher than the asking price on Hernangomez.

      If ever there was a team where an appeal to authority doesn’t make sense, it would be the Knicks.

    20. 2FOR18, understands math

      The mudiay move is a solid B, grading on a knicks curve, for the reasons already stated. However, when was the last time anybody came to the knicks and got better?
      F for not moving Lee. There is no good that comes from keeping him, as also already stated.
      The whole Willy situation makes no sense. I’ll just have to assume we have incomplete information, like he was banging the wrong woman or is a drunk.

      We have the talent to tank enough to get Trae Young this year and Zion next year. Let’s do this.

    21. Brian Cronin

      Zion Williamson is one of the most unusual prospects I’ve seen in a long time. He’s sort of like KP, in that their bodies don’t make any sense, but Williamson’s body is the other way, in that he’s so big, muscular-wise, and yet he moves so fast. I can’t wait to see how he does at Duke, playing with two other top level high school prospects. Which of the three will stand out the most?

    22. d-mar

      Maybe this will be the year that the ping pong balls bounce our way and we get the #1 or 2 pick and select Doncic.

      Nah, who am I kidding, he’s going to the Celtics.

    23. Frank

      I’m starting to think about the Willy trade a little differently now.
      1st round picks are basically like gold now. No one is trading one unless it’s in a Blake Griffin-like trade.
      Second round picks are relatively valuable now in trade talks. PJ Tucker, who is a really good player, got traded for 2 second-rounders also. Tyreke Evans, who is a truly useful player that is making peanuts (as a rental) couldn’t even get more than a 2nd round pick. We basically got the #7 pick from 3 drafts ago for a 2nd round pick. I know Willy is on a good contract, but good players can be gotten just for 2nd round picks nowadays.

      That said – re: Courtney Lee – I think it’s still possible we get a late 1st out of him if we are willing to take on some salary around draft time. I’m thinking of a contender drafting #25+ or something – wouldn’t they rather have 2 years of Courtney Lee in their contention window rather than some draft pick they don’t feel amazing about and are stuck to for probably 4+ years on guaranteed contracts, especially if we take a matching salary back?

    24. Brian Cronin

      I’m starting to think about the Willy trade a little differently now.
      1st round picks are basically like gold now. No one is trading one unless it’s in a Blake Griffin-like trade.
      Second round picks are relatively valuable now in trade talks.

      You still don’t trade Willy when you buried him for a year and still have him under contract for two more years for practically nothing. You’re not going to make the trade make sense.

      That “two future second rounders” might be the market for him right now doesn’t mean that it makes sense to take the market price.

      Also, on a whole other note, as you know, second rounders three and four drafts away are much less valuable than second rounders in the current draft, so it is not just “second rounders” = “second rounders.” The second rounders traded for Mudiay and Payton (plus one of the two traded for Tucker – the other was one year away) were more valuable than the ones traded for Willy.

    25. ess-dog

      In a bubble, the Mudiay trade is fine, but he’s been a complete bust so far, and it’s not like the Knicks are a “teaching” organization.

      The ultimate problem now (aside from having crappy players) is that these kids just need tons of minutes so they can work on their skills. But Horny has such a quick hook with the younguns and plays the vets way too much… so how can we possibly measure what we even have in players like Mudiay and Dotson?

    26. Frank

      Yeah Hornacek’s devotion to Jack is just unreasonable. It’s not like Jack is good — if he were really good then I would get it. I’m not complaining about KOQ getting 20+ min/game. I even get playing Beasley minutes because we will have to make a decision about him at the end of the year and maybe you can see what he does when put in different situations.

      But Jack is old, not very good, and should be off the roster next year. Makes zero sense.

    27. thenoblefacehumper

      It doesn’t matter how second round picks are valued. They have a historical expected return that makes two of them woefully inadequate value for Willy.

      I mean, Willy was more productive than Malcolm Brogdon last year (and he’s younger). If someone tried offering the Bucks two second rounders for Brogdon they’d consider it so insulting they’d probably file a grievance with the league or some shit. Yes, point guard is a more valuable position than center these days. No, that doesn’t come close to explaining the difference.

    28. Stratomatic says "It's tough being us"

      Setting aside how the NBA is valuing picks right now, this is the way I see it.

      When you make a selection in the 2nd round you are mostly “hoping” to find a guy that can become a rotation player. Most of the time you are going to wind up with an end of the bench player or someone that doesn’t make it in the NBA at all. We already had a player that showed enough to be considered a pretty good backup with a little more experience. He just needed some seasoning to get there. So to me, we gave up a bird in the hand for 2 in the bush. I don’t know what our exact chances are for coming up with someone like Willy with those 2 picks, but I think it’s far from certain and very unlikely we get someone better. So I think we lost the deal.

      On top of that, if for whatever reason they didn’t like him or there are things we don’t know about, they still should have tried to maintain his value and then traded him instead of killing it with him buried on the bench.

      Lastly, I think picks in general are simply being overvalued right now for whatever reason.

    29. hoolahoop

      THJ
      In todays NBA market, THJ wouldn’t get half of what the knicks agreed to pay him. If wings weren’t in high demand, he’d get less than that.

    30. hoolahoop

      Luke Kornet. Really?
      So everyone was down on KP, but Kornet is the new darling.
      Yeah, he hit a couple of open jumpers and grabbed a couple of boards, but did you watch him play?

      As I said after the game last night:
      Kornet had a great debut.
      Unfortunately, his footwork is like a newborn giraffe, and he’s 7’0, 102 lbs.
      He’s a nothing-burger.

    31. ess-dog

      The only hope for Mudiay is that maybe he can eliminate his midrange shots because his 3pt% is rising into respectability and it seems like he can get to the rim.

      It’s funny how horrible Mudiay’s been and yet Frank’s been so much worse. Doesn’t this team employ a shooting coach?? If so, he should be stretched/waived immediately.

    32. Grocer

      Yeah, there was no downside to holding Willy for the rest of the year. I figure the trade means we’re looking at Kanter as our C going forward and the FO probably doesn’t like Kanter plus Willy as they’re so similar they present the same match up problems.

    33. hoolahoop

      Willy
      With a whole lotta luck, they’ll use their 2 seconds to draft someone almost as good.
      DUMB!

    34. hoolahoop

      I’ve gone cold on Frank.
      I thought he needed time to develop, and for sure, he does.

      However, he seems to have no feel for the game., he never keeps his dribble, he passes to the wrong guys, he repeatedly repeatedly make lazy passes that get stolen for easy layups, plays with no confidence, can’t finish at the rim, yada yada yada.
      On the other hand, he has long arms.

      Yeah, physically, he looks like a good NBA player. Maybe he should quit basketball and go into modeling.
      My hunch is that he started playing basketball later in life.

    35. Owen

      Delon Wright screened fantastically coming out of Utah.. I can remember looking at his numbers and being intrigued.

      I would be surprised if Luke Kornet amounts to anything. His college numbers were profoundly meh. But I am definitely rooting for him to do so.

    36. Brian Cronin

      Who is the current Knicks shooting coach?

      The assistants are Rambis (who is the lead assistant/shadowy figure hoping to steal Horny’s job), Corey Gaines (strength and conditioning) and then Howard Eisley and Jerry Sichting. Sichting was a really good shooter when he was in college, but Eisley wasn’t a bad shooter, either. Which of those two is the shooting coach? Or do the Knicks not even have a shooting coach? They have to have a shooting coach, right?

    37. ess-dog

      I feel like I’ve thought that about 30-some-odd pairs of Knicks over the years, hoola. It never happens!

    38. ptmilo

      2017-18 Per Game

      Tim Hardaway 32.4 Min, 16.4 PTS, 4.2 REB, 2.9 AST, 1.6 TOV, 1.1 STL, 0.2 BLK TS .521
      Justin Holiday 34.2 Min, 13.4 PTS, 4.5 REB, 2.3 AST, 1.3 TOV, 1.1 STL, 0.6 AST, TS .523

    39. hoolahoop

      2017-18 Per Game

      Tim Hardaway 32.4 Min, 16.4 PTS, 4.2 REB, 2.9 AST, 1.6 TOV, 1.1 STL, 0.2 BLK TS .521
      Justin Holiday 34.2 Min, 13.4 PTS, 4.5 REB, 2.3 AST, 1.3 TOV, 1.1 STL, 0.6 AST, TS .523

      Helllooo Justin Holiday. Welcome back to the knicks. Here’s your $72M.

    40. hoolahoop

      And herein lies the problem. Every deal the knicks make is a bad one. And if they do something good, they make it bad.

    41. Grocer

      Hornacek said Sichting’s focus is offense so maybe it’s him? Would not be shocked if we didn’t have one.

    42. hoolahoop

      The bright side.
      Beasley. The guy everyone here loves to hate.
      You know what I hate? When the knicks can’t stop a bench player. I’d hate if he was on the other side.

      Bease is not perfect. I know his flaws. He can be frustrating. But he’s cheap and scores as easily as anyone. He’s not old, he’s playing the best ball of his life, and has been a good citizen.

      knicks should try to sign him cheap.

    43. Max

      @28
      What follow is not my evaluation of the trade for (H)akeem Hernangomez
      (I’d rather kept him and played him to see what we have) or a judgement on out FO, but…

      “Willy was more productive than Malcolm Brogdon last year”?

      Are you joking right?
      And don’t give me some statistical magic, I’m talking real basketball here.
      If you watched just one Bucks game last year (or this one for the matter) you must be joking.

      Especially as a rookie there’s a BIG difference in playing 27 meaningful minutes per game for a playoff team (and 31 later in the playoff) and playing 18 a game for a shitty team (many of them in garbage time).

      From an asset management standpoint I understand some of the rage that’s around here about the trade, on a “player value” standpoint we’re really overrating WHG and Brogdon has already showed that he’s a better player.

      And MIL refuse to give Brogdon to PHO in the Bledsoe deal, so yes, they probably value him more than 2 second rounders… and for good reasons!

      Our despair and contempt are legitimate, but please let’s be real, the NBA isn’t a Fantasy League.

    44. chrisk06811

      Who is the current Knicks shooting coach?

      The best shooter on the staff is Hornacek. He’s probably also our best overall shooter

    45. Zanzibar

      2017-18 Per Game
      Tim Hardaway 32.4 Min, 16.4 PTS, 4.2 REB, 2.9 AST, 1.6 TOV, 1.1 STL, 0.2 BLK TS .521
      Justin Holiday 34.2 Min, 13.4 PTS, 4.5 REB, 2.3 AST, 1.3 TOV, 1.1 STL, 0.6 AST, TS .523

      **********BPM********RPM
      Timmy—Plus .4——–Plus 1.14
      Justin—-Minus .6——Plus .32

      I didn’t like the Timmy signing because he’d been an average outside shooter and I didn’t think he could improve much in that area since he’d probably been shooting hoops since the age of 3. His #’s were somewhat inflated because he scored a lot in transition which is great but that happens a lot less in the playoffs and I wanted a 17m guy to be productive at that time of year. It does look like he’s made some nice strides in other facets of his game like defense and passing but still not worth it. Better to have thrown that money/contract at Kyle Anderson especially since it looks like Frank will have to play more off the ball. All of this was predictable.

    46. Brian Cronin

      The best shooter on the staff is Hornacek. He’s probably also our best overall shooter

      He actually was a shooting coach when he started out. So maybe he still works as the de facto shooting coach? ess-dog might be right that it’s Bliss. I forgot that they kept him on. He was a video coordinator before, but maybe he’s a shooting coach now?

    47. Frank

      It doesn’t matter how second round picks are valued. They have a historical expected return that makes two of them woefully inadequate value for Willy.

      I mean, Willy was more productive than Malcolm Brogdon last year (and he’s younger). If someone tried offering the Bucks two second rounders for Brogdon they’d consider it so insulting they’d probably file a grievance with the league or some shit. Yes, point guard is a more valuable position than center these days. No, that doesn’t come close to explaining the difference.

      Picks have value in 2 ways — obviously how good the player is, but also what the pick can be used for in a different trade. We’ve already seen that good players can be had for 2nd round picks nowadays. Yes, you’re not getting the reigning ROY on a rookie contract for a two 2nd round picks, but it can be used as a sweetener in a different deal that you DO like.

      In addition, the only thing the Knicks have done well recently is draft. Drafting in the top half of the 2nd round has been pretty high value in the last few drafts with plenty of rotation players. Those Charlotte picks are probably going to both be in the top half of the round.

      I think it is/was a pipe dream that Willy was ever going to bring more than this in trade (even before the season). Sure, maybe a late first, but we would have to take on a contract with that. In this case we didn’t have to take on anything. Sure, maybe we should’ve kept him and just played him (this would’ve been my choice), but his ceiling on this team is just really limited with KP being the center of the future. And there’s a nonzero chance that playing more would have decreased his trade value.

    48. chrisk06811

      I really don’t think Courtney Lee is the problem. I know he’s not part of our future, but giving him away for nothing would have only given the kids more playing time; which is not necessarily a bad thing, but who is our young 3 that deserves that time? Dotson has shown nothing. Maybe Courtney is easier to move at next years’ deadline, with only 1 year left? He is shooting 40% from 3 this year.

      The real problem is Lance Thomas.

    49. Max

      The THJ contract is a clear overpay, but I’m sad that the reasons we didn’t retain Justin is because we gave that money to Baker… they’re basically on the same contract abd Baker was signed as soon as free agency started (even if they announced it later)…

    50. Frank

      Kornet had a great debut.
      Unfortunately, his footwork is like a newborn giraffe, and he’s 7’0, 102 lbs.
      He’s a nothing-burger.

      Re: Kornet – I didn’t watch that much of the game but I thought he moved pretty well on defense. 4 blocks and 10 rebounds in 22 minutes is no joke. I don’t care if he looks like Gerald the Giraffe out there (parents of young kids will know who that is!) if he has production like that.

    51. Brian Cronin

      Sure, maybe we should’ve kept him and just played him

      Yes, this. Which is why it was a bad idea for a trade.

      (this would’ve been my choice)

      Good, then we’re agreed it was a bad idea. ;)

    52. Brian Cronin

      I really don’t think Courtney Lee is the problem. I know he’s not part of our future, but giving him away for nothing would have only given the kids more playing time; which is not necessarily a bad thing, but who is our young 3 that deserves that time? Dotson has shown nothing. Maybe Courtney is easier to move at next years’ deadline, with only 1 year left? He is shooting 40% from 3 this year.

      The real problem is Lance Thomas.

      Giving him away would take him off of the cap for the next two years. They should tank next year and he hurts the tank, plus has no future with the team, plus he’s getting to the age where players sometimes fall off of cliffs (he’s already spiraling in the last month or so).

      If they couldn’t get a first for him this year, there’s no way he’s going to suddenly net a first when he’s A. older and B. making more money (i.e. harder to fit him into other team’s cap).

    53. Brian Cronin

      Lee, by the way, is a career .088 WS/48 player. This year? After being as high as .140 early in the season, he’s now at .094 and looks like he is still falling.

    54. Zanzibar

      When we were all evaluating the propects in the KP draft a few years ago, I dubbed Mudiay “Brickshaw” (China connection) and argued vehemently against drafting him. I have no hard data but I believe that many players may significantly improve their spot-up shooting through practice but few make any meaningful gain in shooting off the dribble. Winslow was knocking down spot-up 3s in college but was atrocious off the dribble. We all know that Shump could hit spot-up 3s but he made one’s eyes sore shooting off the dribble (and finishing). I don’t hold out much hope for Mudiay improving in this area even if we brought in that vaunted Spurs’ shooting coach. Still I think the Mudiay signing was worth a shot since we gave up nothing and there have gotta be some players improved a lot in that regard. He’s still young enough that there’s a faint glimmer of hope.

    55. Max

      Talking about falling, THJ is 13-60 (2-26 from 3) in the last 5 games…
      I think it’s one of the worst slump ever, could he continue to be that bad?

    56. DRed

      If Mudiay wants to become a useful NBA player he needs to somehow learn how to finish at the rim better and cut down on his turnovers or somehow learn to shoot well off the dribble. He has improved his FT and (maybe) his 3 point shooting.

    57. No Knicks Lead is Safe

      Heh, Zach Lowe’s latest piece makes the same Mad Men “not great bob” joke Cronin did on Wednesday. I should probably chalk it up to the meme’s popularity, but it’s fun to think that Lowe is stalking the KB comment board for our insightful takes.

    58. DS

      Lee, by the way, is a career .088 WS/48 player. This year? After being as high as .140 early in the season, he’s now at .094 and looks like he is still falling.

      Not shooting you down, Brian, but do stat heads still use WS/48? I ask because that’s still the first single stat I look at for a quick and dirty summary of how good a player is and I had gotten the impression on boards that it was out-of-date. Certainly CP3 being #1 and Neil Johnston #5 all-time raises doubt!

      By the way, if you waive minimum games played, Luke Kornet currently sits at #5 all-time right behind Wilt Chamberlain. :)

    59. Cock Jowles, Living through the Melo Era All Over Again

      I don’t know if Kornet is going to be any good, but if he has a couple more games like this, I would suggest benching him and trading him for a future 2RP swap after a full season of DNP-CDs.

    60. Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada

      @63

      WS is outdated but not totally useless I think. BPM PIPM and RPM are all likely better stats however but WS is informative enough that I think it’s still worth looking at and considering. Just less the be all end all than it used to be.

    61. Brian Cronin

      Not shooting you down, Brian, but do stat heads still use WS/48? I ask because that’s still the first single stat I look at for a quick and dirty summary of how good a player is and I had gotten the impression on boards that it was out-of-date. Certainly CP3 being #1 and Neil Johnston #5 all-time raises doubt!

      I think WS is still the best quick stat available. You just have to go in knowing its limitations. Like, you’re never going to say, “Oh, his WS/48 is higher so he’s clearly the better player,” but it’s a nice way to get a rough estimation of how good of a year a player is having. I also like WS/48 because I prefer rate stats with the NBA due to playing time issues (as Mike has shown many times over the years, production generally stays the same over increases in playing time, so rate stats are more useful in the NBA than other sports).

    62. DRed

      The only hope for Mudiay is that maybe he can eliminate his midrange shots because his 3pt% is rising into respectability and it seems like he can get to the rim.

      Mudiay can get to the rim, he can draw fouls, but he can’t finish at the rim. He’s shot around .500 at the rim for 3 years in a row. That’s not awful, and he should definitely stop shooting off the dribble, but it’s certainly not what you want to see.

    63. 2FOR18, understands math

      A friend of mine who’s a big Duke fan tells me that Zion is only the 3rd rated of the new Duke recruits. They pretty much signed the top 4 recruits.

    64. Zanzibar

      The only hope for Mudiay is that maybe he can eliminate his midrange shots because his 3pt% is rising into respectability and it seems like he can get to the rim.

      Mudiay can get to the rim, he can draw fouls, but he can’t finish at the rim. He’s shot around .500 at the rim for 3 years in a row. That’s not awful, and he should definitely stop shooting off the dribble, but it’s certainly not what you want to see.

      So you guys want him to not execute PnRs and PnPs? A 1 guard’s gotta be able to shoot off the dribble more so than other position. Lance, for example, you could tell to just spot-up. Mudiay’s speed makes him a threat in the PnR but opponents will just go under the pick if he’s terrible at shooting 2’s.

    65. Brian Cronin

      A friend of mine who’s a big Duke fan tells me that Zion is only the 3rd rated of the new Duke recruits. They pretty much signed the top 4 recruits.

      Yeah, he was the #3 ranked prospect. That’s why it will be interesting to see how they integrate all three guys into the team, especially since they’re all around the same height.

    66. djphan

      zion is a big… wait and see…. i have a feeling he’s highly overrated…. when you outweigh your opponents you have a huge advantage at the hs level… and to an extent the college level as well….

    67. Stratomatic says "It's tough being us"

      Talking about falling, THJ is 13-60 (2-26 from 3) in the last 5 games…
      I think it’s one of the worst slump ever, could he continue to be that bad?

      No, but I think he could easily continue to produce more volatile results than statistics would suggest makes sense. I have yet to find the time to test it on my own, but I’m fairly certain that players have varying standard deviations in their shooting from night to night or week to week etc..

      Just because 2 guys are both 35% from 3 does not mean their their ups and down will look the same. In fact, I’m kind of shocked that kind of data is not public unless someone has looked at it and there wasn’t much there except for a handful of cases.

      I’d rather have a more consistent guy as a starter so I can depend on him. I might prefer to have a more volatile guy as my 6th man. That way if I’m trailing, I can give him a quick heat check to see if he can shoot me back into the game. If not, back on the bench.

    68. 2FOR18, understands math

      2017-18 Per Game

      Tim Hardaway 32.4 Min, 16.4 PTS, 4.2 REB, 2.9 AST, 1.6 TOV, 1.1 STL, 0.2 BLK TS .521
      Justin Holiday 34.2 Min, 13.4 PTS, 4.5 REB, 2.3 AST, 1.3 TOV, 1.1 STL, 0.6 AST, TS .523

      Stab me in the face

    69. Brian Cronin

      zion is a big… wait and see…. i have a feeling he’s highly overrated…. when you outweigh your opponents you have a huge advantage at the hs level… and to an extent the college level as well….

      No doubt, that’s why he is so fascinating as a prospect. He’s so big and yet he moves so quickly. But yes, a lot of his high school success has been just barreling through guys.

    70. 2FOR18, understands math

      All of this was predictable.

      Maybe jowles can find the thread(s) where the usual plaintiffs hated the signing and the usual suspects liked the signing.

    71. Cock Jowles, Living through the Melo Era All Over Again

      Is Zion Williamson fat? I watched some highlights from this season, and according to the forums, he is indeed a whopping 270 lbs. He can still jump out of the gym, but that’s a lot of weight for a 6’7″ guy. Hell, Barkley was around 255 at the same height, and he was pretty round.

      He’s a sure-fire lottery pick, but I can’t help but wonder if he would be a 6’7″ DSJ if he got down to 255 with decent programming. Or maybe he’s the wing version of Shaq and he’ll use that extra weight to destroy skinny PFs.

    72. Brian Cronin

      He’s a sure-fire lottery pick, but I can’t help but wonder if he would be a 6’7? DSJ if he got down to 255 with decent programming. Or maybe he’s the wing version of Shaq and he’ll use that extra weight to destroy skinny PFs.

      That’s what is so unique about him – he really does look like a wing version of Shaq. That’s so damned freaky. It’s like how KP is Shawn Bradley with a three pointer. It just doesn’t seem to make physical sense!

      It really really sucks I can’t go on draftexpress anymore.

      Right?

    73. 2FOR18, understands math

      I have no hard data but I believe that many players may significantly improve their spot-up shooting through practice but few make any meaningful gain in shooting off the dribble. Winslow was knocking down spot-up 3s in college but was atrocious off the dribble. We all know that Shump could hit spot-up 3s but he made one’s eyes sore shooting off the dribble (and finishing).

      +1 Josh Jackson.

    74. wetbandit

      And I was kidding about Unikornet. I need to see him for the next 24 exceed all expectation, not play for the next season, trade him for two second rounders to assume he didn’t know how to practice or something.

    75. Brian Cronin

      I can’t get over how the Knicks are run incompetently every year and yet we still get, “Well, the Knicks didn’t play him, so he must not have been that good” as a serious argument.

    76. kevin5318

      Zion’s weight doesn’t sound right but I recall him being weighed twice and at 270 and 267 respectively. He might just be an insane Lebron level athlete where the weight doesn’t hurt but help him finish at the rim at a high %.

    77. The Glass Half Rebuilt

      I don’t know about Zion Williamson, but I haven’t really looked into the 2019 draft class. The most interesting player is Bol Bol, and he’s going to Arizona with Shaq’s kid.

    78. Brian Cronin

      Zion’s weight doesn’t sound right but I recall him being weighed twice and at 270 and 267 respectively. He might just be an insane Lebron level athlete where the weight doesn’t hurt but help him finish at the rim at a high %.

      The thing about Lebron is that he is also a crazy freaky physical person, but he doesn’t look heavy the way that Zion does, so I have to imagine that it will eventually become an issue for him the way it did for Barkley (and, going the other way, that similarly freaky bodies have apparently hurt Bradley and KP).

    79. Cock Jowles, Living through the Melo Era All Over Again

      Maybe jowles can find the thread(s) where the usual plaintiffs hated the signing and the usual suspects liked the signing.

      Let me check my meticulously organized bookmarks.

      I’m actually more concerned about finding yet another example of me threatening to stop being a Knicks “fan,” when I’m so clearly unable to do so. I decided on New Year’s that I should stop “idle” drinking during the week (like having a beer while cooking, or a scotch while binge-watching Mad Men for the first time) and have had virtually no alcohol since. I decided that I should drag my ass through the Portland winter rain to play pick-up ball twice a week to stave off heart disease and all that; I’m right on target.

      But following Knicks news? Total addict, totally fucked.

    80. domiknick

      Zion is like if you melded old, fat Shawn Kemp and young, jump-out-the-gym Shawn Kemp into one person.

    81. Hubert

      The knock on the Knicks (and Herring said this recently) is they draft well but are terrible at player development. This is why I didn’t want Frank. I thought he was a great prospect but didn’t trust us to develop him.

      Bringing in TWO failed lottery picks desperate to revive their careers strikes me as a suboptimal way to develop a promising 19 year old.

    82. kevin5318

      I could easily imagine the team being higher on Kornet than Willy even before the trade. A big who can shoot and protect the rim decently sounds better in the modern game than what Willy brings to the table.

      Still hate the trade but hopefully Kornet eases the sting of losing Willy for nothing.

    83. Frank

      I don’t see really that Mudiay can’t shoot off the dribble. He’s shooting about 40% on pull-ups, which is better than Kyle Lowry, comparable to Melo, etc.

      I think his major issue is that his shot distribution is all wrong and for whatever reason he can’t finish at the rim — for a guy his size and athleticism he only shoots 50% in the restricted area, which is just awful. Weird thing is that he came out of high school with the rep that he could get to the basket at will and was a great finisher.

      Draftexpress:

      -Strong ball-handler. Can get to the basket thanks to his powerful first step and excellent strength. Finishes with authority
      -Draws tons of fouls. Gets to the free throw line at a great rate

      Yet he never gets to the line and can’t finish at the rim.
      And so he ends up throwing up a bunch of crap — he takes about 50% of his shots from floater range out to <3 point range and only has a FTR of 23%.

      The promising thing is that pretty much all his shooting percentages have improved year by year.

      I dunno – this is like the Trey Burke thing but with better upside since Burke will always be held back by his lack of size and athleticism at the PG position.

      It's really too bad he went to China rather than going to college. Seems like he really needed some real development and instead ended up in China then into the pros where there's no practice time.

    84. Cock Jowles, Living through the Melo Era All Over Again

      I checked the threads. Pretty much no one defended the THJr. signing. Hubert said that on the one hand, the Knicks are overpaying for mediocrity, but on the other, they’re preventing themselves from paying for terribleness. That’s a nice summary of the Knicksy condition: “Well, at least we didn’t trade WHG for cash considerations.”

    85. Stratomatic says "It's tough being us"

      I still don’t quite understand why Orlando was willing to take the Suns 2nd round pick but was so insistent on Frank from us to get Payton. Even if the pick the Suns were offering figured to be a little better than what we had to offer, the gap between Frank and that Suns pick is too huge to be taken seriously. We could have added a little cash or something.

      Could it be an east/west thing or are teams so used to fleecing us they refuse to do business unless it’s a fleece?

      Is it possible we are so hated around the league (by that I mean Dolan) that teams don’t like to deal with us at all unless it’s a blowout trade? That feels too paranoid, but it seems like we have a very difficult time in free agency and in trades all the time.

    86. The Glass Half Rebuilt

      Watching some of Mudiay’s film I think his problem is he’s an average NBA athlete with an average NBA handle that needs to work on his jump shooting. He has good size for the position but that’s about it. I’d like to see him really work on that handle and spot up jumper because that’s how he’s going to be successful. He needs to cross people up, get fouled, and hit set shots.

    87. chrisk06811

      I agree we overpaid for THJ, but I have a hard time on the one hand hearing you knew he was not going to improve, and then comparing him to Holliday, whose numbers have improved big time this year, even though he’s 3 years older than Timmy.

    88. domiknick

      Per Derek Bodner on Twitter just now:

      Bryan Colangelo says Markelle Fultz’s current range is “within the paint.”

    89. djphan

      mudiay still has a very sloppy game and it doesn’t look like he’s made any progress on that front… the lower half of his body in particular is a huge mess… frank has a similar problem…. when you’re not particularly explosive or quick… you need to be a bit crafty around the basket….

      a guy like delon wright is a good example of what a tall pg needs to do… he’s creative around the basket… thinks quickly and adjusts… he has a variety of dribble moves to get by defenders and gets low when needed….

      mudiay and frank… has a persistently high dribble…. it’s lazy…. and aside from a basis hesitation move they have zero creative ability with the ball……

    90. thenamestsam

      The knock on the Knicks (and Herring said this recently) is they draft well but are terrible at player development.

      I couldn’t stop thinking about this last night because the Raptors have done soooo well the last few years developing their young guys. It seems like every young guy they’ve got has just gotten slowly progressively better. Wright, Van Vleet, Powell, Poeltl, Siakam and now OG they just keep finding guys with these middling draft picks and developing them into contributors. All while the team has been competitive the entire time so it’s not like they’ve been able to give these guys minutes irrespective of the outcome. They’re kind of (dare I say it) becoming a little Spurs-east.

      The Knicks on the other hand? The less said about the development process the better. Trying to come up with just a handful of names that you’d call development success stories within the organization will take you back literally decades.

    91. kevin5318

      I still don’t quite understand why Orlando was willing to take the Suns 2nd round pick but was so insistent on Frank from us to get Payton.

      Only Isola has reported this so I’m gonna chalk it up as fake news.

    92. chrisk06811

      Zion is like if you melded old, fat Shawn Kemp and young, jump-out-the-gym Shawn Kemp into one person.

      but how many kids does he have?

    93. Frank

      The Markelle Fultz story is so weird. What professional basketball player forgets how to shoot the ball?

    94. kevin5318

      Oh god imagine if this Fultz story was happening in LA or New York. There should be a total overhaul of team personnel for letting this happen.

    95. 2FOR18, understands math

      I agree we overpaid for THJ, but I have a hard time on the one hand hearing you knew he was not going to improve, and then comparing him to Holliday, whose numbers have improved big time this year, even though he’s 3 years older than Timmy.

      If this is @ me, I never said I knew he wouldn’t improve from last season, though I was very skeptical. My beef was the overpay and the redundancy when we had other needs. Offer him 4 years, 50 something mil if you like him. If he turned it down, so be it.

      I was also upset with people who said, well, we only overpaid by a couple of million a year. It’s the general way the team does business that is infuriating. Overpays, NTCs, player options. All of these things accumulate into a mess even though each individual f/u isn’t that big a deal.

    96. Brian Cronin

      Oh god imagine if this Fultz story was happening in LA or New York. There should be a total overhaul of team personnel for letting this happen.

      I can’t even imagine having this happen to a Knick player. If the Knicks got the #1 pick and then this happened? Lordy.

    97. Brian Cronin

      I agree we overpaid for THJ, but I have a hard time on the one hand hearing you knew he was not going to improve, and then comparing him to Holliday, whose numbers have improved big time this year, even though he’s 3 years older than Timmy.

      Holiday hasn’t improved, he’s just gotten more minutes to do the same stuff he’s always done, so his counting stats are better. If anything, he might be worse than he was last year.

    98. Z-man

      Imagine if we lucked into the #1 pick last year and drafted Fultz (who was pretty close to being the consensus #1 pick) as our PG of the future, the next Clyde…

      I guess I should be happy we only squandered a #8 pick on a useless player. (just razzin’, calm down!)

    99. 2FOR18, understands math

      I tried to be a Nets fan after the Lin fiasco. For some reason that was my breaking point. Even joined a Nets blog. I got bored with it after a couple of weeks and just tuned out for a few years other than draft and trading deadline time. Came back full time after the melo exile.

    100. Brian Cronin

      Imagine if we lucked into the #1 pick last year and drafted Fultz (who was pretty close to being the consensus #1 pick) as our PG of the future, the next Clyde…

      Insane. It would have been insane. I feel awful for the situation and it isn’t even happening to the Knicks. If it was happening here. I can’t even.

    101. Z-man

      I tried to be a Nets fan after the Lin fiasco. For some reason that was my breaking point. Even joined a Nets blog. I got bored with it after a couple of weeks and just tuned out for a few years other than draft and trading deadline time. Came back full time after the melo exile.

      The Nets blog is still available. (I kid, I kid…)

    102. 2FOR18, understands math

      Per Derek Bodner on Twitter just now:

      Bryan Colangelo says Markelle Fultz’s current range is “within the paint.”

      lol. I read a quote recently, from the Philly coach I think, that Fultz could still help them without shooting the ball.

    103. Zanzibar

      The promising thing is that pretty much all his shooting percentages have improved year by year.

      ———FG% by Distance
      3FG%– .31 .31 .37
      16-arc– .34 .33 .34
      10-16— .31 .26 .35
      3-10—- .29 .29 .39
      0-3—– .47 .50 .50
      2P%—– .38 .41 .41

      All his percentages haven’t really improved year by year. His over 2P% did improve from his first to second year but that was due to his at rim going up but it’s stayed flat so far. It looks like he made a significant jump this season in 700 minutes (versus 1400 and 2000 minutes in previous years) in his 3FG% and in the 3-10 feet area. Is that noise is or it real? Let’s hope it’s real.

    104. Z-man

      @111 not that Jackson or Fox are lighting it up either. Or Isaac for that matter. But Fultz? It’s truly inexplicable. It’s like he has a mini-stroke or something.

    105. JK47

      Fultz is either still hurt and nobody is diagnosing it correctly, or he is the Mackey Sasser of point guards. He shot the ball normally in college. His form right now on his jump shot might be worse than mine, and I’m 46 years old and I touch a basketball maybe once every two years. I can’t recall seeing any basketball player just completely forget how to shoot the ball.

    106. Brian Cronin

      Fultz is either still hurt and nobody is diagnosing it correctly,

      The Sasser thing could be true, but I’d still be betting on the first one, as well.

    107. Hubert

      The real problem is Lance Thomas.

      I didn’t realize until recently but the last year of Lance’s contract isn’t guaranteed. He clutters our cap space next year (which doesn’t really matter) and then he turns into a good trading chip (essentially he is $7mm of erasable payroll).

      Our problem contracts are Noah, Lee, and Hardaway. The fact that we could have moved one now and chose not to is very alarming. I’d bet anything that in the summer of 2019 we’re attaching an asset to Courtney Lee’s contract so we can free up cap space to make another mistake.

      Thomas, Baker, and Kanter are bad contracts that have minimal negative impact due to our overall shitty situation.

    108. thenamestsam

      The Fultz thing truly is mind boggling. Only the fact that Philly still has such a nice young promising core even if he’s a total zero has prevented the freakout from reaching an insane fever pitch. It seems like they’re literally trying to teach him how to shoot a basketball again like he has never done it before. I’ve never heard of that before.

      edit: If you watch the videos of him shooting from this morning he’s literally practicing set shots from 5 feet just to get something resembling normal form. It’s something you’d work on with a 10 year old.

    109. chrisk06811

      tsam, it goes further with that. lost in “the process” is that they wiffed on Okafor and lost Noel for nothing. They basically hit on 2 of 5 picks, both of which were #1s, both of which missed at least a year.

    110. Zanzibar

      I checked the threads. Pretty much no one defended the THJr. signing. Hubert said that on the one hand, the Knicks are overpaying for mediocrity, but on the other, they’re preventing themselves from paying for terribleness. That’s a nice summary of the Knicksy condition: “Well, at least we didn’t trade WHG for cash considerations.”

      Well it’s been reported that Mills was pursuing Waiters and Timmy last summer so we maybe should be ecstatic to have Timmy on that contract. And he’s arguably a better player than Crabbe, Bazemore and Fournier who have similar type contracts in money terms. It’s not a terrible contract but if you have Lee, plan to sign Baker, and know Frank might have to play off the ball, wouldn’t it have been better to hold off on splurging on an SG?

    111. Brian Cronin

      tsam, it goes further with that. lost in “the process” is that they wiffed on Okafor and lost Noel for nothing. They basically hit on 2 of 5 picks, both of which were #1s, both of which missed at least a year.

      It’s not lost in the process, it is the entire point of the process. The process was collecting enough high draft picks so that even if you whiff on them (and odds are everyone is going to whiff on a couple) that you’ll still be good regardless. That’s why they talk about the process itself, since the point is that you couldn’t get hung up on each individual outcome. You have to just trust that the overall process will work out in the end. Which is exactly what happened, even with the awful way that the Colangelos have managed their assets since they took over (like their ridiculous Noel trade and their low-key shitty Jerami Grant move. No way Hinkie would have given up on Grant like that).

    112. johnno

      “If you watch the videos of him shooting from this morning he’s literally practicing set shots from 5 feet just to get something resembling normal form. It’s something you’d work on with a 10 year old.”
      I’ve said this many times — How is it possible that Joakim Noah was the son of a famous professional athlete, with all of the financial resources in the world, and no one ever did this with him?

    113. Stratomatic says "It's tough being us"

      I’d bet anything that in the summer of 2019 we’re attaching an asset to Courtney Lee’s contract so we can free up cap space to make another mistake.

      These guys seem to like Lee so much they may put him back into the same space. :-)

      What’s also a mystery is that Lee told them he wanted to stay in NY. He’s got guaranteed money. Why not ask to go to a contender and try to push them into deal. No one would question a request like that at his age and given where we are.

    114. Hubert

      Hubert said that on the one hand, the Knicks are overpaying for mediocrity, but on the other, they’re preventing themselves from paying for terribleness.

      The future was so bright that day.

    115. hoolahoop

      The thing about Lebron is that he is also a crazy freaky physical person, but he doesn’t look heavy the way that Zion does, so I have to imagine that it will eventually become an issue for him the way it did for Barkley (and, going the other way, that similarly freaky bodies have apparently hurt Bradley and KP).

      Google Lebron’s workouts. He’s got a six pack. Completely ripped. Zero fat.

    116. Brian Cronin

      Why not ask to go to a contender and try to push them into deal. No one would question a request like that at his age and given where we are.

      It’s a great question. I was surprised by that, as well. I mean, New York City is amazing, of course, but yeah, you’d think he would want to play for a contender if possible.

    117. Brian Cronin

      Google Lebron’s workouts. He’s got a six pack. Completely ripped. Zero fat.

      Right, that’s what I mean. Lebron is a heavy guy, but it’s all pure muscle. Zion is, well, you know, not.

    118. Zanzibar

      What’s also a mystery is that Lee told them he wanted to stay in NY. He’s got guaranteed money. Why not ask to go to a contender and try to push them into deal. No one would question a request like that at his age and given where we are.

      I’ve been pondering that very question. Here are some possibilities:
      (1) Likes being in NYC (versus frigid Minnesota)
      (2) Wants to be a bench coach for Knicks when he retires ( he does appear to be a smart guy)
      (3) Forced to be more aggressive on Knicks which has improved his stats – could result in a better next contract

    119. Hubert

      I still don’t quite understand why Orlando was willing to take the Suns 2nd round pick but was so insistent on Frank from us to get Payton.

      The aforementioned point about Isola being untrustworthy stands, but this does make sense. GMs have good reason to think we’d do something stupid.

      I bet the Orlando GM had the trade with the Suns locked up and kept them on standby just to wait and see if he could fleece the Knicks. That’s probably why it got done at the last minute.

    120. djphan

      mudiay’s learned to pull up when he can’t get into the rim… and he’s done decently there… 40% is pretty good from 3-10 ft…. but that’s still a shot you shouldn’t be taking….

    121. Stratomatic says "It's tough being us"

      It’s not lost in the process, it is the entire point of the process. The process was collecting enough high draft picks so that even if you whiff on them (and odds are everyone is going to whiff on a couple) that you’ll still be good regardless.

      I was totally on board with what Hinkie was doing when he started. It was more or less my dream scenario for building a team. But after all these years, they are still fighting for the 8th seed. Most likely they are still 2 maybe 3 years away from becoming a serious contender. But the bigger problem is that their franchise player may be more fragile that Porzingis. If he goes down like ours did, it will be close to a 7-8 year “process” that netted them an incredible cache of lottery picks (that included some luck in the lottery) without ever getting them close to a title. Granted, they will still have other great building blocks to continue and may get there eventually anyway. But observing it changed my view of the “dream scenario”. I’m not sure anyone has the stomach for it and it may not even work.

    122. Hubert

      @133 it’s not fair to judge Hinkie when they didn’t let him finish the job. If he were still GM, at the very least they would have taken best player available at 3 and not have made that terrible trade with Ainge. Maybe that’s still Fultz, maybe that’s Tatum. Who knows.

      They’d also have a prime pick in this year’s draft (the Lakers’) and next year’s (the Kings) and the most cap space in the league.

      Sign me up for that all day. We were barely better than them when they were tanking anyway.

    123. Brian Cronin

      What’s the deal with the pick they traded to the Celtics. The Celtics get, what, whichever is worse between the Kings and the Lakers? Or just the Lakers’ pick?

    124. Brian Cronin

      By the way, I think it’s fair to judge the process by what happened and not what could have happened had they let him finish it, because part of it is that you had to know that a team would be pressured to fire you if you came up with the idea of the process. I think it was still a success, but I think that you can’t point to them not letting him finish it as a defense, per se.

    125. Brian Cronin

      Oh, okay, it looks like the Celtics won’t get a pick in this draft period (besides their own). They would only get the Lakers pick if it landed #2-5. Otherwise, the Celtics get either the Kings’ 2019 pick or the Sixers’ 2019 pick (whichever one is better – except they get the lesser of the two picks no matter what if the other pick is #1 overall).

    126. chrisk06811

      what is the deal with Lance’s last year? someone said it’s not fully guaranteed in 2019/20, but I can’t find that.

    127. hoolahoop

      I tried to be a Nets fan after the Lin fiasco. For some reason that was my breaking point. Even joined a Nets blog. I got bored with it after a couple of weeks and just tuned out for a few years other than draft and trading deadline time. Came back full time after the melo exile.

      The easiest way to become a fan is to go to their games. Problem is, the Nets are worse than the knicks.

    128. Stratomatic says "It's tough being us"

      what is the deal with Lance’s last year? someone said it’s not fully guaranteed in 2019/20, but I can’t find that.

      I can’t recall the details, but I read that a few weeks ago also. It’s accurate. :-)

    129. Brian Cronin

      what is the deal with Lance’s last year? someone said it’s not fully guaranteed in 2019/20, but I can’t find that.

      Lots of places have it, but spotrac is the best of the bunch for contract figures. They note that it is guaranteed for just $1 million in 2019-20.

    130. rama in the JING

      I don’t know if Kornet is going to be any good, but if he has a couple more games like this, I would suggest benching him and trading him for a future 2RP swap after a full season of DNP-CDs.

      Comments like this are why I keep coming back. After the Willy trade, I was seriously done with this team. It is irredeemable stupidity. And I’m still done with the team – as a fan. If I follow them without emotional involvement though, with no expectations (except for bad moves), then I can enjoy the humor and analysis part.

      It’s weird to think of not rooting for them, after so many years of hope for next year, but eff it – life’s too short. In itself, the Willy move isn’t devastating… but it reveals a devastating lack of awareness of how to build a team and maximize assets. A truly sell-low moment, that after our $18 mil mistake was banished to Montana and our potential franchise player went down with an injury not everyone can come back from, made even less sense.

      This FO has no understanding of value, of statistics, of team-building. (Hey, let’s bring in another bad point guard, now that we have three who are no good!) There is no hope. I can’t root against them, but I am done hoping for competence.

    131. rama in the JING

      If I were to switch allegiance, maybe I could do Toronto – so few dumb moves. Maybe I should just become a fan of front offices….

    132. ClashFan

      What’s been interesting for me about the Willy deal is seeing lots of sites rate it as a decent to good deal for the Knicks. I read stuff like “the Knicks got a fair deal for a guy who had fallen out of the rotation” as if Willy had some unfortunate accident (“fallen”) that ruined his value. Woops!

      No, they let him rot in the bench, get minutes only on rare occasions (and yes, he did look bad some but also had moments where he looked pretty good, such as the game in Houston where he was very active on D). Last year the guy looked GOOD as the season went on, esp. the last 20 games or so, when being in the rotation.

      Then, deal him when they really didn’t need to do so. I could see it maybe if they then used one or both of those seconds on another deal before the deadline. But they didn’t, so with the season lost, why not just play the guy and reduce Kanter and OQ’s minutes to accommodate?

      It would almost serve the FO right if Kanter and OQ both opt out and sign elsewhere, leaving them with Noah and Kornet for next year. Woops!
      :-)

    133. chrisk06811

      It is irredeemable stupidity

      I don’t get this at all. I don’t love the Willy trade either, but if trading a kid who could not crack the lineup, and spoke out about it, for two 2nds (which have some value these days) is what puts you over the edge, compared to some of the stupid shit we’ve done, I don’t know what to say.

      I mean, had we got a 1 for him, it would have been a steal. Payton was traded for one 2nd.

      Again, not saying I would have done it, so maybe grade it a C, or risky? They see this kid every day; they know what they have. I know he was good last year, but it’s the same coaching staff, and they sat him. that tells you something. even if you don’t like the coach.

    134. Cock Jowles, Living through the Melo Era All Over Again

      Colangelo has mismanaged the Sixers’ resources since he joined the franchise.

      The Sixers have the third-best SRS in the East and will have $38M in cap space in 2019. Anyone want to argue that the process did not at least bring them into the tier of playoff contender?

      Here’s a list of players who have played 1500 minutes in their rookie seasons and posted a BPM >3.0.

      Jordan
      Robinson
      Paul
      Sabonis
      Duncan
      Magic Johnson
      Bird
      Webber
      Jokic
      K. Leonard
      A. Hardaway
      Kirilenko
      Shaq
      Pierce
      Bowie
      Cummings
      Barkley
      Francis
      Olajuwon
      K. Irving
      B. Griffin
      Ben Simmons
      Rudy Fernandez

      Simmons may be low on the list, but he’s still on the list, and among the youngest players on it. The future is VERY bright for the Sixers.

    135. Owen

      Give me Masai or give me death.

      Honestly, us signing him is the only thing that would change my outlook on the Knicks.

    136. d-mar

      Oh, okay, it looks like the Celtics won’t get a pick in this draft period (besides their own). They would only get the Lakers pick if it landed #2-5.

      “With the 4th pick in the 2018 NBA draft, the Celtics select Luka Doncic from Slovenia”

      You can book it.

    137. Stratomatic says "It's tough being us"

      If I were to switch allegiance, maybe I could do Toronto – so few dumb moves. Maybe I should just become a fan of front offices….

      I have to like the management, coach and players to stray.

      I had a brief fling with the Karl, Masai, and the Nuggets after the Melo deal because half the Knicks were there anyway. But when they blew that up in Denver I came crawling back to the Knicks.

      The closest I can get to that now is the Rockets because of D’Antoni. I was rooting for them last year in the playoffs and I guess they are my playoff team for this year, but I don’t have any special feelings about the players.

    138. Brian Cronin

      They see this kid every day; they know what they have.

      Again, though, the Knicks should be one of the last teams in the NBA where you would want to make an “Appeal to authority” argument.

    139. Cock Jowles, Living through the Melo Era All Over Again

      Again, though, the Knicks should be one of the last teams in the NBA where you would want to make an “Appeal to authority” argument.

      They knew what they had with Hardaway, so they traded him for peanuts and re-signed him on one of the league’s worst guard deals. Boom, roasted!

    140. kevin5318

      The Willy trade was dumb but I’m still excited about the teams ability to get high lotto draft picks right now and build on that. A top 8(possible top 5) pick this year and an almost guaranteed top 5 pick next year to add to KP/Frank is something to be optimistic about.

      I think the new FO is still dumb but not dumb enough to completely sabotage us going forward.

    141. ClashFan

      @151
      What’s more likely is that, in the Steve Mills era, the Knicks continue to appear to not properly value players. The overpays for Timmy, Ron, and the Willy deal. As someone said earlier, no one of these is horrible, but they start to add up…

      Now, the Melo deal was okay, and the Mudiay deal is not bad, worth a shot, so okay on those. Ironically, though, the Melo deal brought in Kanter, which ended up killing Willy’s playing time, so…

      BTW, someone said earlier that Kornett’s mom is kind of attractive, or some such thing. I think she’s a babe, esp. for her age. Wowza.
      :-)

    142. Stratomatic says "It's tough being us"

      I don’t get this at all. I don’t love the Willy trade either, but if trading a kid who could not crack the lineup, and spoke out about it, for two 2nds (which have some value these days) is what puts you over the edge, compared to some of the stupid shit we’ve done, I don’t know what to say.

      Willy was handled poorly and imo we lost the trade, but I don’t think that trade in isolation is what is pissing people off. It’s the accumulated frustration that comes from years of mistakes. More importantly, it’s the realization that Perry is probably not any better than some of the guys that have been GM before him (not that that’s a shock given that Mills hired him).

      Even though we came into the year with all our picks, 20m of cap space, and a few young players, we are already blowing that meager start.

      We put Hardaway and Baker into the 20m of cap space we had coming into this year. Both deals look bad right now (one VERY bad). So instead of moving forward, we’ve worsened our position.

      We blew the value on Hernangomez who was supposed to be a core young piece.

      We turned a bad situation with Noah into something even worse.

      We haven’t been finding any time to develop Dotson and Frank looks like he’s going backwards.

      This one may be more specific to me, but they seem to really like Kanter. That scares the crap out of me on multiple levels (1. They might re-sign and over pay him again. 2. They don’t seem to recognize the off boxscore negatives about his game.)

      It’s hard to feel optimistic. I am way more down now than I was coming into the season even though I predicted only 30 wins.

    143. Brian Cronin

      When she was young, Kornet’s mom was a back-up dancer in Japan for Japanese pop singers. That is hilariously awesome.

    144. domiknick

      Odd bit of news: Noah just posted a video on Instagram of…well, I won’t say of what exactly. Feel free to go to his IG page and see for yourself why I wouldn’t explain what he does in the video. But it’s him and Kyle O’Quinn and KOQ is laying on a trainer’s table in what one would assume is a Knicks facility.

      Which is to say, maybe this means Noah is back with the team now and ready to get some minutes?

    145. djphan

      accurate insight from…. not kidding… jared jeffries…
      https://nypost.com/2018/02/09/the-shot-that-can-take-knicks-emmanuel-mudiay-to-next-level/

      “He’s not a bad shooter — he’s a bad finisher,’’ Jeffries said. “That’s why his field-goal percentage is a big focus. If he becomes a better finisher — something very possible — his whole game transforms. Take out his layups, he’s not a bad shooter. If he’d finish at a 60 percent clip, he’d be 48 [percent] from the floor.”

      “He’s big and gets to the rim,’’ Jeffries said of Mudiay. “But the best finishers in the league — Tony Parker, Kyrie Irving — are over-the-top finishers with a softness to their shot and they shoot with their hands under the ball. Scoop, rolling layups are difficult and easier to get altered or blocked. Maybe he didn’t work at it enough at a young age because he didn’t go to college.’’

    146. chrisk06811

      Strat, I totally agree with your assessment. I was talking to the outrage over the Willy deal alone.

    147. chrisk06811

      Last year, Denver sent Nurkic AND Memphis’ first round pick to Portland for Plumlee and a 2nd. Nurkic was a 16th overall pick, a year younger than Willie, with similar stats. Plumlee was owed $14M for 3 more years, and is currently playing 21 mins a game.

      We weren’t getting a 1st for Willie.

    148. JK47

      Between Shump, Frank and Mudiay we seem to have cornered the market on “guards who can’t finish at the rim” over the past few years.

    149. thenoblefacehumper

      For the millionth time, no one is arguing that the Knicks could’ve gotten much more for Willy. That ship sailed when they nailed him to the bench for god knows what reason (and spare me the “well maybe he looked bad in practice” crap, the guy was successful in substantial NBA minutes).

      They just obviously shouldn’t have traded him at all when his value was at its absolute lowest. I would say that’s Asset Management 101 but I would assume anyone teaching that class would expect students to know that coming in.

      I was just as dejected as rama when that trade was made. Not because on its own it was so devastating–I’d give it 206 millicurries–but because it demonstrated this front office is the same as the last which was the same as the last which was the same as the last.

    150. chrisk06811

      Noble, you might not be, but someone above was. They said the trade was irredeemable stupidity. If they are talking about the way we handled him, or the timing, then I totally agree. but that’s not how I read it.

    151. djphan

      i don’t get the sense either that there is any deep level of thinking…. everything i’ve heard from perry, mills and just about anybody connected with the knicks staff is very conventional old school type of thinking….

      which i think has it’s place… but to be dominated by it… is another…. and it will show if it hasn’t already…

      i think we’re in for another long 5 years and it’s possible it’s a lot worse than the previous 5….

    152. 2FOR18, understands math

      I just realized that for next season the Knicks are capped out, have maybe 2 legitimate NBA starters (and they play the same position) and have the league’s worst PG situation in a league dominated by primary ball handlers.
      See you all for 2019 draft!

      Edit: Thanks Phil!

    153. Brian Cronin

      “With the 4th pick in the 2018 NBA draft, the Celtics select Luka Doncic from Slovenia”

      Luckily, by saying “#2-5,” the only possible options are #2 and #3, since the Lakers won’t be bad enough to net the #4 or #5 seed by record and you can’t get there by lottery.

    154. 2FOR18, understands math

      @157 I was horrified at where you were going with that….Dear Penthouse, So I was lying on the training table and you won’t believe who walked in……..

    155. hoolahoop

      Based on everything he said pre-season, I think KP is going to leave. All he wanted was the knicks to be heading in the right direction. The remainder of this season and next season look like a downward spiral and plummeting morale.
      Unless he has a change of heart, KP is not looking to squeeze every dollar out of his next contract. He wants to play meaningful basketball while growing his craft. The knicks don’t offer that option.
      My bet, he goes to LA and plays for Magic.

    156. chrisk06811

      There are some encouraging things about Mudiay on the Denver board…..there’s an article about his 3 year rollercoaster ride. You know his game had some peaks and a lot of valleys. but it also said this:
      -Emmanuel’s off the court behavior can never be doubted. The consummate professional through and through
      -it’s true he did not speak to the media this year…What he also didn’t do was complain
      -No, there were no off record comments, no deleted tweets, no moping on the bench from Emmanuel. Only professionalism and support for his teammates and for that he should be commended.e he did not speak to the media this year……..What he also didn’t do was complain.

      I mean, that’s encouraging, right? he’s already more mature that Joakim Noah.

    157. chrisk06811

      even the writeup from the Denver fans (who I am assuming are just like us, in that we all love Will Chandler) for the most part either with Mudiay well or think he will improve.

    158. Brian Cronin

      I don’t think “refuses to speak to the media” meshes well with “consummate professional.” I don’t really care that he doesn’t speak to the media, I just think that’s the sort of thing that sort of knocks you out of the running for “consummate professional.”

    159. chrisk06811

      OK….fuck all that other stuff. I just googled Jared Jeffries. You should do that. 2 notes:
      -There is a show called “Modern Fishing with Jared Jeffries”. it’s on the outdoor channel.
      -“Jared Jeffries wife” popped up on my google search. Lets just say I was wrong about Jared Jeffries not being able to finish.

    160. chrisk06811

      Brian, I was just quoting what the author said, and it’s not all bad. but, more importantly, did you see that Jared Jeffries has a fishing show?

    161. Brian Cronin

      Oh, I knew it wasn’t you saying it, I was just surprised to see anyone call a guy who refuses to speak to the media a “consummate professional.” I don’t personally have a beef with dudes who want to be weirdos like that, but it sure ain’t “professional.” I just write dumb stuff on the internet and I’m expected by my bosses to be open to media inquiries, ya know? This is a guy who makes millions to entertain people!

      And yeah, Jared Jeffries is awesome. When the Knicks did a 180 away from D’Antoni’s people, they lost a lot of their coolest players, like Jeffries. I mean, I certainly get it, but it’s still a bit of a shame.

    162. ptmilo

      Griffin/Drummond actually look a little like Simmons and Embiid when they play together on offense. On defense not so much.

    163. Stratomatic says "It's tough being us"

      Based on everything he said pre-season, I think KP is going to leave. All he wanted was the knicks to be heading in the right direction. The remainder of this season and next season look like a downward spiral and plummeting morale.

      I don’t think he will, but It would be smart of him if he did. It would be different if he had reason to have faith in management, but he has no reason to. They were dealt a hand that easily should have moved us forward a notch or at least held us neutral while they rearranged things and looked for better opportunities. We are unquestionably in a worse position now than when they took over given we added 2 bad contracts and killed Willy’s value.

    164. d-mar

      I was just watching the highlights of the Minny game and, well, goddamn that was amazing.

      I mean, the greatest player of our generation, perhaps of all time, comes out of nowhere to swat away a game winning shot attempt by Butler, and then with 1 second on the clock catches a full court pass and pulls a Laettner on the other end to win the game.

      That’s what superstars do.

    165. Brian Cronin

      To extend it further, he first blew by Andrew “we all sort of assume he’s good on defense” Wiggins to lay in the game-tying bucket before his game-saving block!

    166. ptmilo

      It will be interesting to see how Crowder plays in Utah under a better coach. People like to throw rocks at the Brad Stevens bandwagon but the fact that Bradley and Crowder have been so bad this year while the Celtics have the number one defense in the league after dealing two of their supossed stoppers and adding none isn’t what many people expected.

    167. Grocer

      pulls a Laettner

      I grew up in Kentucky, and even the bare mention of this still brings out a flash of anger, despite not following UK for 20 years.

    168. DRed

      That’s what superstars do.

      There are superstars and there’s Lebron. That Cavs team having a winning record is a remarkable achievement.

    169. DRed

      There are a couple other guys who could win with Kevin Love and the Jabronis, but at 33, with those miles on their legs? No fucking way.

    170. Frank

      Any chance that KP leaves NY before his 3rd contract went away with his injury. He’d have to pass up an extension and the next summer sign a qualifying offer in order to get unrestricted FA. There’s just such a small chance of that happening in light of him now seeing his basketball mortality with this acl tear.

    171. djphan

      it’s a good reason to play hardball with him…. he probably shouldn’t get the max…. although probably close to it….

      does anyone trade kp and the #10 pick for the #1 and draft doncic? i think i would….

    172. Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada

      I’d trade KP and our pick for Doncic in three millicurries

    173. kevin5318

      There is literally a 0% chance KP leaves now. We might even draft two better players than him in the next two years.

    174. hoolahoop

      KP makes basketball plans with his family, especially his brother who manages him. After he bolted in disgust at the end of last season, he came back and clearly stated that he’d like to stay in NY if he sees the knicks going in the right direction. And his brother said that money was not the top determinant, because they expect to get paid well where ever he goes.

      Think about it. Which scenario is going to make him want to stay.
      Watching the knicks get their ass kicked every night fighting for the worst record in the league with morale at rock bottom. And dumb management decisions.
      Or, would he prefer, get excited to come back, and play on a team that’s going to make the playoffs, and make some noise when they get there. A team that he feels he can make a difference on, in a meaningful season?
      The knicks organization sucks. He knows that and will be smart to get the hell out of here. Nobody wants to play here.
      So, tank away knicks.

    175. hoolahoop

      Here’s another clue that KP may leave. In a preseason interview, he said he felt good about other teams expressing interest in him when Phil was shopping him. He seemed almost surprised, and happy that he had options to play elsewhere.

    176. latke

      Hoolahoop, you’re really just repeating things that every basketball player says when asked that question. It’s meaningless. Of course Porzingis would love for the team to be competing for titles ASAP. That is not an option for the Knicks. If you push to be better now, you will be worse when KP is actually a UFA and you’ll have screwed yourself twice over when he leaves then.

      It’s hard enough to escape mediocrity without trying to cater to your star-esque player. Trying to do a Phil Jackson and stay competitive while adding less young talent than all the other teams with similar records are adding is a path to more mediocrity. The threat of KP leaving even if it was real is irrelevant because to cater to his supposed will puts the Knicks in a bad position even with KP.

    177. hoolahoop

      You’re missing the point.
      The idea is not to tell KP, screw you, play somewhere else if that’s what you want.
      KP is far and away the most valuable player on the team. That’s why the knicks will back up the truck for him. But it may take more than that to keep him.
      The organizational disfunction must end. Otherwise, this is the way it’s always going to be. They’re won’t get anyone good to come play here unless they overpay. Forget about signing elite players. And they’ll struggle to retain their top draft picks.
      It’s a horrible scenario for knicks fans.

      So, if you want the knicks to follow the Philly model and tank tank tank . . . be careful for what you wish for.

    178. hoolahoop

      @ 195
      Players should not dictate decisions. But you sure better cater to your most valuable players. Because if you don’t, someone else will. Every good owner knows how to keep his best players happy.

    179. Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada

      The Philly model that has them in the playoff hunt with two future superstars despite whiffing on like every draft pick but two?

    180. kevin5318

      I don’t understand why people bring up Philly as a reason not to tank. Imagine if Fultz hadn’t fucked his shoulder up or go even further back and have them take Porzingis instead of Okafor.

    181. Cock Jowles, Living through the Melo Era All Over Again

      all those who say with a straight face that Capela is anything less than an All-NBA player can suck my ass

    182. latke

      All I’m saying hoola is that the Knicks aren’t in a position to play it safe. If they try to coddle KP (assuming he is stupid enough to think that it’s in his or the team’s best interest to make win now moves, which is a ginormous assumption), then they put themselves in a position where the team will not achieve greatness and furthermore make it much more likely that in 2022 or whatever when KP’s extension or new contract runs out, that the Knicks are in a terrible position.

      Like, look what happened to teams like Cleveland with Lebron and New Orleans with both Paul and soon Anthony Davis. The team got all hot and bothered when it drafted a burgeoning superstar, cluttered its cap with terrible contracts, burned picks so it couldn’t reverse course, and then the guy they went out of their way to coddle looked around at the shit situation and was like “fuck this. I’m out of here.” And those players are far better than KP. THey were far better than KP when they were his age.

      Like imagine you want to be rich so you can marry this golddigger you’ve had a crush on forever. You can throw lots of parties when you’re middle class, putting yourself in debt just to get her to think you actually have money only for her to leave you a year or two later when your debt catches up to you or else you can live frugally and save until you actually are rich. You seem to be advocating the former strategy without recognizing that it will inevitably leave the this already talent-impoverished team even poorer down the line and cause KP to boogie on out here for sure once he realizes that you were so desperate to appear rich that you mortgaged your mom’s house to get those 35 wins and that all he can look forward to is several years of being weighed down by all the debt you’ve racked up.

    183. Stratomatic says "It's tough being us"

      all those who say with a straight face that Capela is anything less than an All-NBA player can suck my ass

      Capela is one of the better Cs in the league, but let me ask you something.

      If we added Harden to KP, Hardaway, Jack etc… would we immediately make a explosive move upwards?

      imo “yes”.

      What about Chris Paul?

      imo “yes”.

      What about Capela?

      imo “no”.

      Capela would definitely make us better because he’s a way better defender than Kanter, but he’s not the piece that’s going to change a bad team. He’s the piece you are trying to add to a team that already has the star level scoring and play making it needs. That way he can score efficiently playing off them on offense and focus on rebounding and defending the paint.

      There’s a difference.

      If you value rebounds the way some metrics do, they suggest you can put Capela, Jordan, Drummond, Whiteside, Adams, Kanter, Chandler etc.. on a bad team and have the same or greater impact as Curry, Durant, James, Harden, and other players that score efficiently, create for themselves, and drive the train. It’s hard to find strong consistent evidence of that unless you want to talk about Bill Russell. But he was a once in a lifetime player on defense that could dominate a game on that side so much, players were afraid to come into the paint to even try to score.

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