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Friday, March 22, 2019

Knicks Morning News (2017.11.28)

  • [ESPN] Porzingis returns; Noah active for first time
    (Monday, November 27, 2017 6:43:22 PM)

    While Kristaps Porzingis returned to the Knicks after missing a game with a sore back, the team was again without center Enes Kanter. Joakim Noah was activated for the first time this season and scored 2 points in three minutes.

  • [NYPost] Frank Ntilikina’s roller-coaster night a true learning experience
    (Monday, November 27, 2017 7:38:55 PM)

    Frank Ntilikina managed to wrap a typical rookie season all into one night Monday at the Garden. After shooting 0-for-4 with a turnover in the first half, the Knicks point guard was benched for the entire third quarter. He showed some life in the fourth as the Knicks mounted a comeback, but it was hardly…

  • [NYPost] Enes Kanter instigating fights from bench: ‘I’ll pay the fine’
    (Monday, November 27, 2017 7:14:15 PM)

    Enes Kanter sat out a third straight game Monday night as he continued to fight back spasms, but that didn’t mean the Knicks’ emotional leader couldn’t help inject some energy into his lifeless teammates with a suggestion. “I told — I’m not going to tell who — I told somebody, ‘Hey man, go out there…

  • [NYPost] What Knicks do next could determine their whole season
    (Monday, November 27, 2017 7:07:57 PM)

    Twenty games in, and the Knicks are officially entangled in their first crisis. It isn’t their first three-game losing streak; that trifecta led off the season, but that was still when we — and, in truth, they — thought this could be a legitimate 82-game mudslide. They were 0-3 then. It was impossible to guess…

  • [NYPost] Joakim Noah’s long-awaited return to Knicks just a cameo
    (Monday, November 27, 2017 7:03:24 PM)

    Welcome to Year 2 of Joakim Noah’s infamous Knicks tenure: uncertain when he will be in uniform, grateful for any minutes at all. With starting center Enes Kanter again sidelined by back spasms, Noah was on the active roster and played Monday night for the first time in the second season of his albatross four-year,…

  • [NYPost] Knicks can’t find their old Garden magic as slump worsens
    (Monday, November 27, 2017 5:04:47 PM)

    The Knicks are slumping. The electricity that had buzzed through Madison Square Garden in the early stages of this surprising season was replaced by groans and scattered boos Monday night as the sluggish Knicks were easily handled by the Trail Blazers, 103-91, for their third straight loss. The Knicks (10-10) had won nine of their…

  • [SNY Knicks] Kanter hopes to return to Knicks lineup Wednesday vs. Heat
    (Monday, November 27, 2017 11:45:33 PM)

    Knicks center Enes Kanter hopes he can return to the starting lineup for Wednesday’s game against the Miami Heat after missing the past three games.

  • [SNY Knicks] Knicks’ rally falls short in 103-91 loss to Lillard, Trail Blazers
    (Monday, November 27, 2017 10:25:00 PM)

    The Knicks lost to Damian Lillard and the Portland Trail Blazers 103-91 on Monday at Madison Square Garden.

  • [SNY Knicks] Ntilikina, LeBron clear the air
    (Monday, November 27, 2017 7:45:00 PM)

    Knicks guard Frank Ntilikina and Cavaliers forward LeBron James have reportedly cleared the air after their brief spat earlier this month.

  • [SNY Knicks] Noah, Porzingis active, Kanter inactive as Knicks take on Portland
    (Monday, November 27, 2017 6:03:07 PM)

    Knicks forwards Joakim Noah and Kristaps Porzingis will be active, while forward Enes Kanter will be inactive for Monday’s game against the Portland Trail Blazers.

  • [SNY Knicks] Porzingis, Knicks return home to face Trail Blazers
    (Monday, November 27, 2017 5:18:35 PM)

    After two road losses, the Knicks return home to face the Portland Trail Blazers on Monday night.

  • [SNY Knicks] Ron Baker sent down to G-League Westchester
    (Monday, November 27, 2017 9:59:54 AM)

    The Knicks have assigned G Ron Baker to the G-League Westchester Knicks, and he is expected to play tonight at White Plains.

  • [SNY Knicks] Cyber Monday deals: Who are the Knicks’ best discount contracts?
    (Monday, November 27, 2017 9:00:00 AM)

    On this Cyber Monday, who are the Knicks best discount contracts?

  • [NYTimes] Trail Blazers 103, Knicks 91: Knicks Fall Back to .500 With Loss to Trail Blazers
    (Tuesday, November 28, 2017 4:08:10 AM)

    Damian Lillard scored 32 points at Madison Square Garden as Portland handed the Knicks their third straight loss.

  • [NYTimes] David Fizdale Is Fired by Memphis Grizzlies
    (Tuesday, November 28, 2017 12:59:57 AM)

    In a move that stunned many around the N.B.A., Fizdale was fired after a 7-12 start. The Grizzlies had lost their last eight straight games.

  • [NYDN] Injured Enes Kanter advises teammates to ‘fight with somebody’
    (Monday, November 27, 2017 7:59:29 PM)

    Enes Kanter was held out of his third straight game on Monday night with back spasms.

  • [NYDN] Knicks’ late run not enough, fall to Trail Blazers, 103-91
    (Monday, November 27, 2017 5:01:24 PM)

    The Knicks made it a game in the fourth quarter, but were unable to complete the comeback.

  • [NY Newsday] Knicks trail throughout, fall to .500 in loss to Trail Blazers
    (Monday, November 27, 2017 11:41:22 PM)

    The Knicks fell back to .500 with a thud in a nearly wire-to-wire 103-91 loss to the Trail Blazers at the Garden on Monday night.

  • [NY Newsday] Young Knicks can’t take anything for granted
    (Monday, November 27, 2017 11:32:35 PM)

    Are the Knicks for real?

  • [NY Newsday] Joakim Noah activated, gets first basket of season for Knicks
    (Monday, November 27, 2017 11:13:17 PM)

    Kristaps Porzingis returned to the Knicks lineup on Monday night vs. Portland after missing Saturday’s game at Houston.

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    75 comments on “Knicks Morning News (2017.11.28)

    1. Brian Cronin

      Has anyone ever tried to see what the league leaders for a season would look like if you used the MEDIAN points per game instead of the average? Same with rebounds and assists. I wonder if it would change dramatically or not. I don’t wonder enough to the point where I’d be willing to put the work in to find out, but if someone else did, that’d be interesting.

    2. Stratomatic says "NY basketball is back"

      If I can muster up the time/energy I should be able to do something that like for you eventually. I was also thinking of using some metric to evaluate a player’s entire game. Then I could measure the standard deviation to see which players are the most consistent from night to night and which are very hot/cold. In fact, I’m kind of shocked there isn’t already a popular public stat like that unless there’s less variability than I would guess.

    3. 2FOR18, understands math

      I’m convinced KP is playing hurt – either his elbow or back. At this point, he’s just not tough enough mentally or physically to perform at his peak level unless he’s feeling 100%.

      Frank is regressing, which is disturbing. He really seemed to be about to turn a corner a couple of weeks ago, showing gradual bits of improvement, but that has stopped for now.

      Can’t help but notice that all 4 players OKC traded away this summer have gotten better playing without the Gravity Effect, whereas melo remained melo and PG and Westbrook have played worse with all of that Gravity leading to all those easy shots. It’s almost as if 4 players standing around while watching the guy with ball doesn’t lead to an efficient offense, but only a moron would think that.

    4. GHenman

      Don’t we have the Clippers second round pick? If so, that is suddenly another really valuable asset.

    5. Brian Cronin

      Nevermind. Philly has swap rights on that pick.

      The Clippers performing poorly is still good, though, since it means that the Knicks will likely get to keep their pick, as the Sixers will take the Clippers’ pick instead.

    6. djphan

      the next step for kp is to tighten up his shot selection and work on his secondary skills… his rebounding is now below what it was even last year and that’s not a good trend…. his usg is at 34% and he could very easily take less shot opportunities and just be more efficient than he already is… that part will definitely get better… and once it does it’s going to be pretty scary….

    7. DRed

      The Clippers performing poorly is still good, though, since it means that the Knicks will likely get to keep their pick, as the Sixers will take the Clippers’ pick instead.

      Right, the way for us to get the best possible pick is to have the Clippers finish with a worse record than we have.

    8. Stratomatic says "NY basketball is back"

      I’m going to create a brand new set of stats for each player called “curse at TV per game”, “curse at TV per 36″, “curse at TV percentage”. The thing that gets me riled up is dumb plays (stupid fouls, TOs, shots etc..) I find myself doing a LOT of cursing this year.

    9. Hubert

      Wow, I just noticed that we owe Philadelphia a second round pick for four consecutive years.

      I know I’m preaching to the choir here, but there are so many better ways to use cap space than the way we did the last two years.

    10. swiftandabundant

      @ 10 – In my opinion the only bad way we used cap space the last two years was Noah.

      Lee has been a solid signing. KQ has outplayed his contract. Lopez was a good signing. Yeah Derrick Williams and Affalo and Jennings weren’t great but they didn’t hurt us long term either. The only real mistake was Noah.

      How do we owe Philly those second round picks? When did we do trades with them? I don’t ever remember us making a trade with Philly in the last 7 or 8 years.

    11. d-mar

      I’m going to create a brand new set of stats for each player called “curse at TV per game”, “curse at TV per 36?, “curse at TV percentage”. The thing that gets me riled up is dumb plays (stupid fouls, TOs, shots etc..) I find myself doing a LOT of cursing this year.

      There were a ton of those last night, there was one sequence where Beasley came up with a steal and promptly threw it back to the Blazers for an uncontested dunk.

      Also, I found it kind of cringe worthy when Noah grabbed an uncontested rebound and let out a primal scream.

    12. Owen

      Good outing from Oladipo last night. +29 in a 12 point win.

      The FO of OKC has to be scratching it’s head right now with them being four games under their expected wins. It will all come out in the wash but it’s been quite a start….

    13. Hubert

      @11 – I disagree. Even if you like the signings in a vacuum, it’s impossible to say we used our money to become better. We’ve been treading water in the 30 win range. I’d have rather accumulated assets.

      We owe Philly swap rights this year and our pick next year because in Phil’s first season he wanted to create a roster spot or Travis Wear so he packaged those picks with Travis Outlaw and traded them for someone we could waive: http://www.espn.com/new-york/nba/story/_/id/11774681/new-york-knicks-trade-travis-outlaw-philadelphis-76ers-clear-roster-room-travis-wear

      We traded our 2020 and 2021 picks to draft Willy Hernangomez. No complaints there.

      Of course, we could have drafted him with our *own* 2nd round pick that year, but we traded two of them for corpse of Marcus Camby.

    14. Stratomatic says "NY basketball is back"

      @13

      The OKC situation is really strange. As predicted, the defense improved a lot. They have one of the top few defenses in the league right now. On the flip side, Melo and George have not benefited at all from having a better PG getting the ball to them in better spots (more assisted attempts) or having less of a burden on offense to create the tough unassisted shots on their own late in the clock. More perplexing is that Westbrook has not only not benefited from being able to share that late clock create burden, his TS% has dropped down to the level of his first couple of year at below 50%. That’s the bigger problem.

    15. Brian Cronin

      We owe Philly swap rights this year and our pick next year because in Phil’s first season he wanted to create a roster spot or Travis Wear so he packaged those picks with Travis Outlaw and traded them for someone we could waive

      I’ve always maintained that that was one of the biggest under-the-radar shitty Phil moves, since he did it solely to save the money on Outlaw’s contract, which was only $3 million (and remember, Phil had just recently acquired Outlaw himself). When you’re a shitty team, you shouldn’t be trading second round picks just to save money (see also Chicago and their terrible Jordan Bell trade).

    16. chrisk06811

      did you guys see the kanter quote from last night:”I’m not going to tell who, but I told somebody, ‘Hey man, go out there and fight with somebody. It will get the energy up”

      I just want to hug him.

    17. Jack Bauer

      @9 Curse at TV per Game (CTVG) – That is Perfect. I will keep track starting immdeiately. I curse at the game a lot , but have never kept track. The new stat line….

      My guess is Beasley will lead the team in CTVG but we’ll have to see.

      Agree with the comments above, Frank seems to be regressing. He’s playing even more tentatively than at the start of the year. KP seems hurt or tired or both. McD’s production seems to have fallen off a cliff too. They need to win some of these upcoming games as the road gets a lot tougher after that.

    18. Brian Cronin

      One of the most surprising things to me about the season so far is that a .500 record in the East is outside of the playoffs if the season ended today, while the current #8 seed in the West is two games under .500 (and that team is the shitty Gobert-less Jazz).

    19. ClashFan

      @17
      Well, Beasley started a fracas that ending up costing the Knicks 4 points and ended the momentum on their big run in the fourth quarter. If it was, him, he picked the wrong time to start the fight.

    20. JK47

      We owe Philly swap rights this year and our pick next year because in Phil’s first season he wanted to create a roster spot for Travis Wear

      The Wear Bear was the Ron Baker of his time

    21. swiftandabundant

      @ 19 – this is one of the unspoken storylines of the young season so far. The East has been slowly coming back to an equal level to the West. Its been slow but I think we are seeing it now. Of course the two best teams in the league are still out west….GSW and The Rockets, but outside of those 2 teams, the rest of the West is not that great anymore. Father time is finally catching up to The Spurs although when/if Kawhi comes back they will be better. The rest of the top 8 teams (Portland, Nuggets, Twolves, Pelicans) are about the same as the playoff teams in the East that aren’t Boston. East still has some of the worst teams but I feel like there’s more parity with Giannis now breaking out in the East, Philly starting to be on the rise, KP on The Knicks, you got the Wall/Beal duo in Washington, Boston is super strong and will continue to be so. The Cavs are gonna take a step back soon and I guess maybe the West will get stronger if Lebron does go to The Lakers but if you think about where a good free agent might want to sign in the next few years…I would think a lot of the east teams, including us, might be more attractive than the West teams.

    22. TheOakmanCometh

      KP seems hurt or tired or both.

      I really hope he’s not tired, considering we’re 20 games into the season.

      His first 3 years have followed the same pattern where he starts out like gangbusters, everyone goes gaga over the big leap he’s taken, then he starts looking sluggish and regresses. It’s not a coincidence that the team has also started well each of these three seasons before regressing. At some point he needs to sustain a high level of play.

    23. swiftandabundant

      KP is fine. I think its a combo of teams adjusting to him and him getting more double teams plus Kanter has been out these last three games. Kanter is our second best player right now!

    24. Hubert

      16 of 20 games are on the road after Christmas.

      I’m thankful for this nice stretch of entertaining basketball. I hope we keep it up for a few weeks and peak in a great, feel-good, home win over the Sixers on Xmas.

      Then it’s tank-a-palooza after we get our butts whipped on the road.

    25. Cock Jowles, #1 No-Trade Clause DNP-CD

      Father time is finally catching up to The Spurs although when/if Kawhi comes back they will be better.

      This is such a silly take. Kawhi was worth anywhere between 14 and 20 wins over replacement to the Spurs last year, yet they’re still on-pace for 50-53 wins with Pau Gasol playing like it’s 2009.

    26. Z-man

      Ntilikina is not regressing, he’s just not progressing. He is playing pretty much exactly how he did in France, but at a different position and in a better league. He’s a defensive 2 being miscast as a defensive 1. He has no burst, and I’m not optimistic that he can develop one any time soon, since I can’t think of a single player who developed one over time. He can create a bit of space with a dribble/fake or two and knock down a jumper, and can hit a 3-pointer, but does neither dependably. He has good (not great) court vision, and is a good but not a particularly gifted passer. There is absolutely no reason to expect that he will become a proficient 2-way PG in the next five years. He’ll show flashes, but he just doesn’t have it. The sooner we move him off the ball, the better. If they insist on force-feeding him at the 1, at least let him take his lumps in the G-League (and I wouldn’t be surprised if he struggled with PG-centric stats down there too, although he’d probably rack up rebounds, steals and maybe even blocks.)

      Based on what I’ve seen thus far, I would say that the best-case scenario for Frank is a Dennis Johnson-type player. DJ was long, smart, unselfish, and fundamentally sound in all areas, but never flashy; long and athletic, but without much of a handle or burst (by PG standards.) He played mostly the 2 and was eventually able to fake playing the 1 on an all-time great Celtics team, advantaged with other great passers (especially Bird) and go-to offensive players (Bird, Parish, McHale). Ainge was sort of a combo guard as well, taking some pressure off of DJ at the point.

      The game was a lot different then, and in that way, Frank is a bit of a throwback. DJ was able to hand-check back then and didn’t have to defend the 3-pt line or shot 3-pointers like players have to today. But I’m sure he would have figured it out. That’s the big question mark for me: will Frank figure it out (and as a 2, not a 1, which I have pretty much given up on for now.)

    27. GoNyGoNyGo

      So like us Knick fans to get all bent out of shape after a bunch of bad losses. At the beginning of the season I predicted 30 wins, give or take 5. Compared to most everyone else here, I might have been an optimist. Frank is 19. Let’s give him a full season before evaluating him. I like him as a point guard. He needs seasoning. Maybe he ends up as a combo-guard but for now, this is exactly what should have been expected.

    28. GHenman

      If Frank turns into a Dennis Johnson type guard, we’ll have hit a homerun. Pairing him with a good ball handling offensive minded backcourt mate with Frank taking the tougher defensive assignment is the long term solution in my opinion. Maybe Hardaway can be that guy.

    29. Z-man

      Forgive me GNYGNYG, but I don’t need a full season. I had all the evidence I needed before the season started. But to each his own.

    30. Stratomatic says "NY basketball is back"

      @27 What about George Hill?

      That’s who Phil wanted to sign as a FA according to media reports (which must be taken with a grain of salt of course). I think that would have been the perfect mentor for several years (even though he’s not off to a particularly good start in Sacramento). That’s the player I see him potentially becoming on offense based on what I’ve seen.

    31. Z-man

      I think Hill is a combo guard with more PG skills by nature than Frank. A more compelling comparison to me is this guy:

      http://bkref.com/tiny/1n4kq

      A good player, especially in the right role, but not really a PG as much as a good passing defensive 2.

    32. nicos

      I think Frank is more of a one than Hill who has an anemic career assist rate of 18.7. Hill offsets some of that by not turning the ball over and being a solid shooter but I think he’s guy who is really overrated by advanced stats despite his great defense. Like Hill though, Frank will probably need to be paired with a playmaking wing (or start shooting much, much better) if he’s going to be a starter on a good team.

    33. Farfa

      I agree with the feeling that Frank might not be a natural PG and we might be better off with him as a two, but we have a glut at the SG position, so what should we do? If we could get a dynamic ball handler I’d like to see Frank work off the ball, but until then…

    34. kevin5318

      Shut it down for Marvin Bagley

      @IanBegley
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      When asked about it, Kristaps Porzingis said his back is feeling fine but his elbow swelled a bit last night. He’s been dealing with bursitis in his elbow for much of the season

    35. kevin5318

      I like Frank in the Draymond role where he’s still good enough to run the offense and rack up assists as a secondary/tertiary ball handler. That way he can use up most of his energy to harass opposing guards.

    36. Ben R

      From Dec 27th-Mar 9th we play 24 road games and 9 home games. That seems terrible but it is not as bad as it could be. Out of those 24 road games 10 (Chi, Dal, Brk, Mem, Uta, LAL, Phx, Orl, LAC, Sac) are against terrible teams most of which will be full on tanking by then. Many of the other games are against borderline teams like Miami, Ind, NOP, Mil twice. We could easily go 10-14 and could possibly break even because it’s a pretty easy lineup of teams.

      I’m not saying we will, but it’s actually an easier stretch than we’ve had so far.

    37. nicos

      I don’t know about moving a guy whose got a .410 TS% on mostly open jumpers and with a slow release to the two- at least at the moment. Right now Frank is a really bad offensive player- he needs to work on both his jumper and his handle as well as cleaning up his turnovers. But he’s really young, should at the very least get a lot stronger if not quicker and with his size he should be able to leverage that into getting into the lane even if his shot and handle don’t make significant improvements. I think if he’s going to be a difference maker it’ll be at the one so I’d just ride it out there for the rest of the season though if he’s still playing as poorly at the end of December as he has these last couple of weeks he should get some time in the g-league where he can get 30+ minutes a night without killing the team.

    38. Brian Cronin

      Shut it down for Marvin Bagley

      I thought you were saying that Bagley was getting shut down for the season, as well! I was, like, “Damn, first Porter and now Bagley?!?”

    39. kevin5318

      It would be really something if KP had to shut it down like Melo did so we had a chance for a top pick.

    40. Hubert

      Ntilikina is not regressing

      Yeah, he’s got ~350 minutes. He’s still showing us who he is.

      I noticed last night when he has an open three he likes to take two steps into the arc and take a long two pointer. Suboptimal. But he drained them.

    41. Hubert

      Oh jeez, I should’ve kept reading.

      There is absolutely no reason to expect that he will become a proficient 2-way PG in the next five years.

      Yep, ~350 minutes into his career, no reason to think he’ll ever be a good PG. SMH.

    42. TheOakmanCometh

      Here is a side-by-side comparison of all rookie guards drafted in the Top 11 last year (not including Fultz, who has barely played).

      Look at their WS/48, BPM, etc. Frank, Fox, Monk, and Smith have all been awful. Ball has been merely bad. Rookie guards struggle, especially point guards. I’m not going to draw any conclusions about Frank yet.

    43. chrisk06811

      Hubert is 100% right. The kid is 19 friggen years old. He’s already proven to have very strong defensive skills. He’s shown some toughness, and willingness to distribute the ball. he leads the league in steals per 48. he’s top 10 in steals/turnovers. Give him a chance

    44. Nick C.

      Darrell Walker is someone that came to mind, partly because he was a Knick but also because he was a defense first player that began as a PG.

    45. Bruno Almeida

      The season is long and full of terrors.

      I’m worried about Ntilikina but still hopeful. He’s playing really poorly but so is every other lottery guard pretty much, it’s just a hella difficult league to be a young PG right now. He has value now and will be valuable in some time.

      The Clippers are most definitely shutting down after Blake’s injury now and another competitor for the tank is up. My solace is that the 6-10 range has interesting wing and guard players in the draft, so it might not be all that bad.

    46. TheOakmanCometh

      The Clippers are most definitely shutting down after Blake’s injury now and another competitor for the tank is up. My solace is that the 6-10 range has interesting wing and guard players in the draft, so it might not be all that bad.

      It seems like the Hawks, Bulls, Kings, and Suns are virtual locks to finish with worse records than us. We’re in the next tier with the Clips, Grizz, Mavs, Lakers, Nets, and Magic.

      That means if the season goes the way I think it’s going to go, we’ll finish between 5 and 11 in the lottery.

    47. kevin5318

      I’m content as long as were in the lottery. There are enough solid prospects up until 15 that would be great fits here.

    48. Z-man

      Sure, I’ll give him a chance, what choice do I have? But I keep reading “it’s only been 350 minutes” and “he’s only 19″ and “look at all the other rookie PGs” and it doesn’t resonate.

      “Its only been 350 minutes”
      Not when you include all of his minutes in France, where he played essentially the same style. Clearly they knew there that he was not a PG.

      “He’s only 19″
      A 3-month old kitten will never grow up to be a dog. The vast majority of 19 year-old basketball players play the same position they played at age 19 as they do at age 25, 30 and 35. PGs are almost always born, not made after age 19. The odds of him being an exception are very low. Is there a chance? Yes, but I for one am not holding my breath.

      “Look at how badly the other rookie PGs are struggling”
      Here are the stats: http://bkref.com/tiny/lap3L
      Ball, Smith Jr., and Fox are struggling PGs whose main problem is with shooting, Monk, and Mitchell are not PGs. All of them have a higher assist % than turnover %. Fox, Smith Jr. and Ball all have a higher assist% than Frank and a lower TOV% than Frank. As a PG, he’s struggling the most. And Fox, Smith Jr. and Bll all had prior success as their team’s full-time PG. Frank has never been a full-time (or even a part time) PG.

      In addition, Ntilikina is the worst shooter thus far of everyone but Ball. He’s the worst rebounder other than Monk. But these are not PG-centric categories and I expect that all of their shooting will improve somewhat, but it won’t help Frank as much because he’s the lower usage player on the list. Frank should become a better rebounder with his physical tools, especially if he moved to the 2. Frank is the best at getting steals in the group, but that would be true if he moved to the 2.

    49. TheOakmanCometh

      We’ve been shooting unsustainably well from mid-range. We lead the league by far in percentage of shots taken from 10-16 feet (15% of our shots), and we’re hitting 47% of those, which is second in the league. Zing is a good mid-range shooter, but that’s going to regress.

      The league averages are 11% of shots from midrange with a FG percentage of 40%. Houston, the epitome of a modern offense, only takes 4% of its shots from 10-16 feet. Of course the Rockets lead the league with a ridiculous 53% of their shots from 3-point range. The Knicks rank 27th in percentage of shots from 3.

    50. TheOakmanCometh

      We also — shocker — allow the most 3s in the league on defense. It’s an annual tradition that’s older than Festivus.

    51. Z-man

      I just want to re-emphasize that I’m not concluding that Frank is a bust or a low-value player. He definitely is on track to be a pretty good player. I’m only concluding that he is most likely not our PG of the future unless we build a team around him that masks his glaring (and probably unfixable) deficits at that position. I would guess that his main value on a playoff team would be as a defensive specialist whose value will depend greatly on who he shares the floor with and what system he plays in. Value-wise, he’ll probably be somewhere in the range of Darrell Walker/Iman Shumpert/Avery Bradley/Marcus Smart with a very outside chance of being a Nate McMillan/Dennis Johnson type.

    52. Donnie Walsh

      He’s a defensive 2 being miscast as a defensive 1. He has no burst, and I’m not optimistic that he can develop one any time soon, since I can’t think of a single player who developed one over time. He can create a bit of space with a dribble/fake or two and knock down a jumper, and can hit a 3-pointer, but does neither dependably. He has good (not great) court vision, and is a good but not a particularly gifted passer.

      Wow, you’ve basically described legendary Knick Point Guard Mardy Collins here.

      I haven’t seen Frank N play, but I can’t imagine the floor is that low, is it?

    53. thenamestsam

      Z-Man,

      I tend to agree with you that Frank is more likely a long-term 2 than a 1 and it’s why I also didn’t like him in the draft (at least in our range). But I’m not sure I see the advantage of moving him off the ball now. Even if he eventually moves to the 2 I don’t think he’s ever going to be a guy jetting off screens. I see him more as a guy whose value (outside of catch and shoot which all wings need to be able to do) is going to be catch and then move into a secondary pick and roll/secondary attack off the dribble. That’s the natural evolution for a guy with some PG skills but not really enough to be a primary ball handler who is also never going to be a lights out shooter I don’t think.

      So I feel like letting him have the ball in his hands now both maximizes the possibility (however faint it may or may not be) that does blossom somewhat into a competent lead ball handler AND is best for developing the skills that will make him valuable at the 2 long term. Even if he’s not a guy who you just run a spread PnR and say “Go get ’em” I still think he can become a valuable part of a more democratic offense where he still has the ball in his hands a lot.

      What about Andre Igoudala as a more modern comp? Iggy is a little bigger although I think Frank can fill out a good amount, and Iggy was always slightly miscast as a lead option. But he’s great as a secondary option who creates a lot of defensive value and is a vital cog in an offense that shares the ball (and the playmaking duties) a lot.

    54. Ben R

      I think if we look at our team as it is currently developing then having a non ball dominant PG is okay. If we build around the strengths of KP and Kanter and run a motion offense our PG doesn’t need to create much. He’ll have be a lot better than either of our PGs have been of course but all we need from a PG is to cross the mid line, initiate the offense, shoot open shots, take care of the ball, play good defense and occasionally bail out a bad possession. That is enough. If Ntilikina develops he should be able to do all of those things even if he can’t break down a defense or be much of a threat to penetrate or ever score more than 12-14 points a game.

      Neither of our PGs can penetrate at all and both have a sub-50% TS% yet we still shoot at an above average efficiency as a team and if we took care of the ball we’d have a very good offense.

      Interesting stat, we are 10-3 with losses to only Cleveland, Toronto, and Houston when KP, Kanter and Jack have started. Probably means nothing but so far when all our starters have played we are quite good.

    55. Hubert

      That means if the season goes the way I think it’s going to go, we’ll finish between 5 and 11 in the lottery.

      If we end up around 5 I’d go all in for Doncic. I would trade this year’s 1 and next year’s 1 unprotected. Or I would trade this year’s 1 and Willy. It might take this year’s 1, next year’s 1 *and* Willy. That would be very steep, but I’d consider it.

      I think Doncic is absolutely perfect for this team.

    56. Stratomatic says "NY basketball is back"

      I’m not sure this matters, but when Phil drafted Frank he was NOT looking for a pure PG. He was looking for a long term plus defender at multiple positions (also able to switch) that had enough play making skills to be perfect in a 2 guard front. When Phil got canned and the offense was changed, Frank’s role was changed. Now it’s on him to learn how to play the position and run the offense. That will take time.

      I’m still not the least bit worried about his shooting. I think all these rookie PGs are feeling the pressure of playing in the NBA and coping with tougher defenses. That why they are all shooting poorly. They will all get better. I think Frank is going to get a LOT better. His form is excellent and as I’ve said in the past, he was put through some rigorous shooting drills and came out rated as a potential elite shooter. I don’t care how much of an aberration that result was, he won’t be a bad shooter long term.

      I’m more concerned about quickness, athleticism, and things that can’t be practiced or learned. If he’s too limited to be an all-star caliber PG, then we’ll have to adjust how we play and who plays with him.

    57. chrisk06811

      what about the PG many of us wanted as a comp…..Ricky Rubio? Both very good defensive players; Rubio is a great distributer, but horrible shooter, while Frank is in between

    58. chrisk06811

      here’s a comp!!!! 19 year old Tony Parker’s rookie season; 9 pts, 4.3 assists / game in 29 minutes, 72 starts. Shot 42% from the field, 32% from 3. 1.2 steals / game, 2.0 turnovers.

      Frank is at 5 pts, 3.3 assists, 1.4 steals, 2.0 turnovers. shooting only 34% /25%. but, in only 19 minutes.

      So, Frank is ahead of Tony in assets, way ahead in steals, worse in turnovers, and he’s shooting like I do when I forget my inhaler. But he’s only 18 games in.

    59. Cock Jowles, #1 No-Trade Clause DNP-CD

      Z-man derides Ntilikina with the same critical lens that led him to declare Porzingis a can’t-miss superstar as early as his first Summer League appearance.

      While I agree that Ntilikina has been dreadful so far (unplayable on offense, no matter how many assists he gets), writing a player off this early in his career, as a 19-year-old PG in the world’s best basketball league?

      Lol nah

    60. The Glass Half Rebuilt

      To be fair to Z-Man, he hasn’t written off Ntilikina as a pro ball player. He’s written him off as a pro point guard, and his skepticism is well warranted. I don’t think Ntilikina will have a problem breaking defenses down as he knows how to operate a pick and roll. I think as he gains his confidence and doesn’t have to switch his mindset from passive to aggressive, he’ll be an asset to our offense. He just needs time, and maybe that trip to the G League would do him some justice. Go torture Trey Burke for a night or three.

    61. Bruno Almeida

      The thing about this whole Ntilikina thing is that there’s no real benefit to taking him off the ball now. Our other guards are just as terrible on offense and are old (and shouldn’t ever be more than 15th men in competitive basketball rosters).

      Having Ntilikina out there isn’t massively swinging the results to losses because he subs for Jack who happens to be horrible. So giving him minutes is not hurting either possible plan of action the Knicks FO has, either try to win or develop young guys.

      I’m completely not on the Trey Burke train, I think there’s very good reason he’s in the G-League, so the Knicks are well suited to just let him be terrible on offense and see what comes out of it. Losses like the one against Portland are annoying to watch of course, but Portland is obviously a superior team that should beat the Knicks anyway. I liked seeing Willy get some burn and Horny remembering Dotson exists out of garbage time for a little while at least.

    62. DRed

      I’m fine in a vacuum with sending Frank to the G-league, but our other point guards are still Ramon Sessions and Jarret Jack so why bother

    63. Grocer

      If he wasn’t busting ass (and our other PGs weren’t ass) then a G league stint would be fine but since he’s working hard and getting pt I don’t see any advantage.

    64. Knick fan not in NJ at this time

      I agree. If Frank weren’t getting playing time, or was proving completely unready for NBA experience, then he could go to G-league. But he’s surviving at point guard in the NBA and does some good things there. So I think he’s getting better experience playing against NBA teams than he would get playng against G-league teams.

    65. Z-man

      I get all the reasons for not sending him down. I agree that he’s not really hurting the team much, although he has been terrible the last 8 games. And yes, Jack and Ramon are not very good. My rationale for sending him down is to get him some experience doing something he’s never done before at any level, which is to play 35+ minutes a game as his team’s lead guard. He’s clearly not going to get that experience up here, and he’s already playing not to make mistakes rather than going for it. It also seems like he’s being told generally to be more aggressive (and it’s all over the media), causing him to force some things and messing even more with his confidence.

    66. ClashFan

      Assuming that the Knicks settle in well under .500 in the next month or so, I’d hope that Frank and Ron split the time at PG the rest of the season. Let ’em play, and the sooner the better to evaluate them and service the tank.

      Now, if the Knicks continue to hang out at .500 or a bit higher, I guess we’ll continue to see Jack for awhile longer. I understand why Hornacek wants to win games right now.

    67. Z-man

      Z-man derides Ntilikina with the same critical lens that led him to declare Porzingis a can’t-miss superstar as early as his first Summer League appearance.

      While I agree that Ntilikina has been dreadful so far (unplayable on offense, no matter how many assists he gets), writing a player off this early in his career, as a 19-year-old PG in the world’s best basketball league?

      Lol nah

      It was around draft time, but who’s counting?

      Love the hyperbole as always!

      @64, precisely, thanks!

    68. Z-man

      I was reading Dennis Johnson’s obit in the NYT and loved this quote…Frank should take heed:

      “My game revolves around the other four guys out there,” he said. “I’m not a great shooter, I don’t think of myself as a great passer or a great ball-handler, but I think of myself as average in every category. I think that’s what enabled me to last this number of years.”

      DJ wasn’t really a PG, he was the ultimate glue guy playing PG. Man was he good, how many backbreaking elbow jumpers did I see him drain over the years?

    69. ess-dog

      As of November 22nd, NBAdraft.net has us picking Rui Hachimura from Gonzaga at the 19th spot.

      We’ve already risen from that spot a bit, but it might be hard to crack the top ten, even with our shitty point guards. I think we’ll be lucky if one of Bridges, Sexton, or Knox drops to where we’re drafting unless KP gets injured and misses half the season.

    70. Owen

      I will remove Dolan from the lowest circle of hell. He can come up one rung. This is at least mildly amusing. Still a total dope though.

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