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Sunday, June 17, 2018

Knicks Morning News (2017.10.31)

  • [NY Newsday] Kristaps Porzingis’ 38 points lead Knicks to 3rd win in row
    (Tuesday, October 31, 2017 1:48:12 AM)

    Porzingis is showing that he is more than ready to carry his team.

  • [NY Newsday] Jarrett Jack working on sticking with Knicks
    (Monday, October 30, 2017 10:48:13 PM)

    Jarrett Jack is the only Knick with a non-guaranteed deal, but he’s making it very easy for the team to keep him.

  • [NY Newsday] Knicks Insider podcast: Knicks show progress Steve Mills wants in win over Cavaliers
    (Monday, October 30, 2017 11:42:00 AM)

    Knicks president Steve Mills wants to see progress from his team.

  • [NYDN] Porzingis fuels MVP hype after scoring career-high 38 points
    (Monday, October 30, 2017 9:38:04 PM)

    Kristaps Porzingis scores a career-high 38 points as Knicks hold off late rally from Nuggets, win 116-110.

  • [NYDN] Hardaway held scoreless for three quarters, comes alive in fourth
    (Monday, October 30, 2017 7:30:08 PM)

    Tim Hardaway Jr. held scoreless for three quarters before coming alive for the Knicks in the fourth.

  • [NYDN] Jarrett Jack has become a spark for Knicks after 0-3 start
    (Monday, October 30, 2017 3:40:39 PM)

    It’s amazing what a couple of wins can do.

  • [NYTimes] Knicks 116, Nuggets 110: Kristaps Porzingis Scores Career-High 38 as Knicks Top Nuggets
    (Tuesday, October 31, 2017 3:55:03 AM)

    The Knicks blew a 23-point lead but bounced back in the fourth quarter to defeat Denver at home.

  • [NYPost] Knicks are ridiculously strong at this one key position
    (Monday, October 30, 2017 10:18:19 PM)

    The Knicks are putting together quite the tag team at center. After starting center Enes Kanter struggled, Kyle O’Quinn came to the rescue Monday night with a monster outing and played the final minutes of crunch time. Getting key rebounds in the final two minutes, O’Quinn finished with a healthy double-double — 15 points, 12…

  • [NYPost] Tim Hardaway Jr. doesn’t have to score to be difference maker
    (Monday, October 30, 2017 9:58:23 PM)

    For three quarters Monday night, Tim Hardaway Jr. was the answer to a simple question: “What makes $71 million and is invisible offensively for the Knicks?” As that question, essentially, was being put to Hardaway, teammate Courtney Lee, standing nearby, interjected. “He made a lot of good plays throughout the game, though,” Lee said. He…

  • [NYPost] The Kristaps Porzingis MVP talk begins — and it’s not crazy
    (Monday, October 30, 2017 9:38:11 PM)

    By the end, his constituents were weighing in with voice boxes instead of ballot boxes, casting their votes for a favorite son in whom they have invested so much. As the dying seconds of this 116-110 Knicks victory over the Nuggets bled away, all 19,812 of them began the roar in earnest. M! V! P!…

  • [NYPost] Jarrett Jack is the common denominator in Knicks wins
    (Monday, October 30, 2017 8:29:34 PM)

    In the Knicks’ first three games, Jarrett Jack did not play in two and came off the bench for 18 minutes in the third. The Knicks lost all three. In the Knicks’ next three games, Jack started each time at point guard. The Knicks won all three. Discuss. And no, it’s not just coincidence. “I’m…

  • [NYPost] Rising Kristaps Porzingis guides Knicks to third straight win
    (Monday, October 30, 2017 6:17:48 PM)

    Enes Kanter said it’s time to talk about Kristaps Porzingis as a potential MVP — for this season. If the Knicks keep winning like this, he may be right. Porzingis was spectacular again in a career-best night and got a late boost from sidekick Tim Hardaway Jr. as the Knicks avoided an epic third-quarter disaster…

  • [NYPost] Jeff Hornacek made hard decisions narrowing Knicks rotation
    (Monday, October 30, 2017 7:46:35 AM)

    CLEVELAND — In this season of supposed development, Knicks coach Jeff Hornacek has admitted to the tough task of figuring out a rotation with a roster made up of comparable players. Hornacek played 12 guys in the first quarter alone in the season opener against the Thunder. But in the Knicks’ 114-95 win over the…

  • [SNY Knicks] Porzingis scores career-high 38 points as Knicks win third straight
    (Monday, October 30, 2017 10:33:33 PM)

    Kristaps Porzingis scored at least 30 points for the fifth time this season to lead the New York Knicks to their third straight win with a 116-110 victory over the Denver Nuggets on Monday.

  • [SNY Knicks] Daily News Live: Porzingis showing leadership
    (Monday, October 30, 2017 6:22:12 PM)

  • [SNY Knicks] Knicks face Nuggets at home in search of third straight victory
    (Monday, October 30, 2017 5:07:00 PM)

    The Knicks look for their third straight win when they face the Denver Nuggets on Monday at Madison Square Garden.

  • 136 comments on “Knicks Morning News (2017.10.31)

    1. alsep73

      Pluses from the game:

      * KP absolutely abusing Jokic and Millsap. Defenses are focused on him now, and he’s handling it. That 3 from the logo was something Steph would do.

      * OQuinn was a beast. Good for both short term development of the team and long term attempt to flip him for an asset.

      * TH2’s fourth quarter was great, albeit after a pretty lousy first three quarters. Not ideal point distribution, but he helped put it away.

    2. Brian Cronin

      As I noted in the very first game of the season, I was very happy about this season because if they suck, great, they get a top pick and if they’re good, it will likely be due to the contributions of players who will be here for more than this season, so so far, this year has gone very well. If they keep winning games because Porzingis is too good to let them lose, then that’s fine by me. I’ll enjoy the wins!

    3. alsep73

      Exactly. A season where we just missed the playoffs, and get a lower tier lottery pick isn’t ideal, but it still means that KP has taken a significant leap, and that at least a few of the other younger players have played well around him.

      Also, I was glad to see Jeff put Frank back in at the end of the game, despite Frank having a pretty bad game up to that point. It shows both faith in his defense and a willingness to go through his growing pains, which is the exact attitude this team should have.

    4. Totes McGoats Makes 18mil For 14ppg

      Wow..umm..KP looks like he’s realizing exactly who he is as a player and that no one can stop him. If you give him an inch, he shoots over the top with ease. If defenders continue to get in his body like they have, the refs are gonna have to call more fouls. He’s stronger this season, so he doesn’t get pushed around as much- and you can’t put your centers on him because they can’t guard him either. I hope he continues to put it all together because we are watching a player that the league is gonna have to adjust to. This guy is an NBA2K character lol. I just hope he can sustain this play without breaking down. At some point of course, you’d expect his numbers to fall closer to earth. But even then, if he keeps this type of play up, he should still be head and shoulders above every player not named LeBron, Steph, Durant, Westbrook, or Giannis..maybe Harden and Kawhi as well- we’ll see.

    5. The Glass Half Rebuilt

      KP is doing most of his damage in isolations and off catch and shoots. Get him a point guard that could put him in more P&R opportunities and he’d win an MVP award. It’s too bad we’re going to be too good for a Doncic/Porzingis P&R.

    6. chrisk06811

      I still do not get why Beasley’s minutes didn’t go to Billy. I don’t see what Beasley gives us that Billy can not.

    7. alsep73

      why do we want to flip oquinn again… isnt he already an asset?…

      He’s an asset on a value contract that essentially expires at the end of this season, since he has a player option he surely won’t exercise. Good as he is, he’s about to get more expensive, and is likely not part of the future of a team that already has KP and Willy (and may have Kanter next year, since his player option is much more lucrative). He and Lee (and maaaaaaybe) Kanter are our only real trade assets who aren’t part of The Young Core, so if we can get either a pick or a young player at a position of greater need (i.e., send him to a team with a glut at the 1 or 3 and a thin frontcourt), he’s more useful in a deal than he is on this team.

      But boy, do I enjoy watching him play when he’s bringing it like he was last night.

    8. lavor postell

      THJ’s defense was really good in the 1st half. The whole team was tentative in the 2nd, but he needed to be more assertive and make something happen when the team was crapping away a 22 point lead in 7 minutes. It was great for him to step up in the 4th though and score 13 big points in the quarter.

      It still looks like he’s looking for his spots right now, but he made some passes yesterday I’m certain he would have chose not to or been incapable of 2 years ago.

    9. Ntilakilla

      Seriously, the only criticism I have of KP’s game is that he’s not creating enough with the attention he’s earning as a high usage scoring machine. He’s going to have to read defensive shifts better and get the ball to the open man when opponents overcompensate for the mismatches he presents by gravitating towards him.

    10. Z-man

      Nice wins but seems unsustainable. We are very vulnerable in the backcourt. We are catching teams at the right time. We haven’t been scouted yet b/c no one knew what our starting lineup and rotation would be, and the first 3 games were sloppy with weird rotations. Jack is a nice find, but better scouting will probably hurt him going forward. Our other options at PG are uninspiring unless Frank develops quickly, which is doubtful.

      I do think we have some advantages that will get us past the 30 win mark. We are dominant on the offensive boards and can be good at protecting the rim. We can throw offensive and defensive oriented units out there. We have two match-up nightmares in KP and Kanter.

      In a way, this team reminds me of the Derek Fisher Knicks that played .500 ball until Melo stepped on a ref’s foot, then fell apart. KP is not going to continue to get 30+points every night. If he sprains his ankle or something, we could go on a bender.

      But there is definitely a refreshing look to the way we’re playing. Whether we win 20, 30 or 40 games, we’re definitely making progress.

    11. stratomatic is sold on Frank!

      1. O’Quinn’s value is probably never going to be higher than it is right now.

      2. He’s playing so well, I hate the thought of trading him even more now.

      3. I’m still not a huge fan of Kanter as a starting C, but he’s playing well and we don’t really know if Hernangomez is a better fit and/or better player at this stage.

    12. Ntilakilla

      I am not as worried about our personnel being scouted because I think this hybrid Triangle/Flex scheme is legit. If everyone does their part, executes and shares the ball we will generate clean, open looks. It’s not a coincidence that Jack is averaging 8 assists/game since starting or that KP is getting the ball in the post way more than ever before. This is what a well run motion offense can do.

    13. DS

      Captain Obvious says Lee and KOQ gotta go. They are too old and are going to lead us to a #12 pick in the draft.

    14. lavor postell

      KOQ is 27. He’s playing well and while he wants minutes doesn’t seem to have an issue with coming off the bench. He’s also a great locker room guy. I don’t think you deal him until this team proves over a larger sample they’re not going anywhere at all and are still gonna be in the business of losing games for draft position towards the end of the season.

      Right now you have a clear cut tactical advantage on the glass and multiple options to exploit it in Kanter, KOQ and Willy. The nice part is all of them complement KP offensively. KOQ is the one who, when he’s locked in and not being a space cadet, establishes a formidable defense.

      When Noah comes back it gets crowded, but I think he should be treated as a sunk cost until he clearly earns PT, just like Hornacek is doing with Willy. Yes, Noah is a vet, but he’s one who has been varying levels of bad for the last 3 seasons that just happens to have a massively bloated contract.

      Nothing is set in stone and if you get a great offer for KOQ or Kanter or some dunce thinks Noah got his juice back then sure go for it. Otherwise I think te prudent thing is to hold off on making moves until at least December 15 when summer contracts can start being dealt.

    15. ess-dog

      You have to be pleased with the Jack/Frank combo for now. Frank is learning on the job and Jack is playing with fresh legs… he’s earning it. I also feel pretty good about TH2 and Dotson, for now at least.
      Lee is playing well, but it would be nice to get rid of his contract and get a pick or young player back in return. Maybe we can extend O’Quinn at a decent price? He’s from NY and the team believed in him. He brings a lot to the table, especially as a 3rd big.
      Man, poor Okafor. The 6ers are just not handling things well over there. They should be showcasing Okafor if they want to trade him. I know they’re in love with Embiid, but he’s very fragile and they already dumped Noel for nothing. What if Embiid goes down again and Okafor starts to thrive but hates the organization and wants out? Stupid.

    16. english_knick

      The KOQ thing is so interesting. I LOVED watching him last night. He was great. For a lot of teams at a lot of stages in their development it would be a no brainier to keep him and try to get a bit of a hometown discount in the summer on a new contract.

      But next year we have, as a minimum, Willy and Noah on the roster. Very probably, Kanter too. That’s already 33m in salary to Centers. I can’t justify an argument to myself for stretching Noah and I can’t see anyone trading for Kanter. We can’t give KOQ a market value deal or anywhere close to it under those circumstances – it’s cap suicide.

      And as we go through the season his value may start to fall as teams get closer to the point that a rental to the end of the year isn’t worth the challenge to integrate him in their rotations.

      I’m totally fine to hang on to him for now while we work out where we’re going. But if we actually get to the point of deciding we might keep him we’d have to consider trading Willy. I don’t want any part of that but keeping all those guys on the roster when either KOQ or Willy can return a long-term asset is not good roster management.

    17. stratomatic is sold on Frank!

      Man, poor Okafor. The 6ers are just not handling things well over there.

      It’s hard to imagine screwing things up any worse than they have, but despite that Simmons looks like a freak and maybe Embiid will finally stay healthy.

    18. DRed

      You have to be pleased with the Jack/Frank combo for now. Frank is learning on the job and Jack is playing with fresh legs… he’s earning it. I also feel pretty good about TH2 and Dotson, for now at least.

      Not one of those players has a TS% north of .500

      Jack has done a passable job of getting the offense organized, and he’s generally done a nice job of protecting the ball, but he can’t score and he keeps us from getting out in transition. Frank looks frisky on defense and has made some impressive passes, but he’s been terrible overall on offense. Timmy might be hurt, and he should get better. Dotson’s played 20 minutes and has missed the few shots he’s taken, but he has rebounded very well.

      Our successes this year are largely the result of having a very good front court with an assist to McDermott (Doug is taking almost 80% of his shots at the rim or behind the arc) and Courtney Lee.

    19. Ntilakilla

      Our successes this year are largely the result of having a very good front court with an assist to McDermott (Doug is taking almost 80% of his shots at the rim or behind the arc) and Courtney Lee.

      You forgot to mention our offensive system which is using curls, screens, counters, and cuts to get our bigs open for our guards to get them the ball. The fact that Jarret Jack can collect 10 assists in this system tells us how guard friendly it really is.

    20. TheOakmanCometh

      If we get an opportunity to trade KOQ for an asset, we have to do it. I like him a lot, and he’s playing well. But he’s a pending free agent on a team with a million centers already. He has no long-term value for us.

      Nothing has changed in that regard. Trade him if you can.

    21. DRed

      Jack has done a commendable job running the offense in the half court. He seems to understand what we’re trying to do, and he’s a good passer. But his offense is non-existent and he’s slow. Jarrett has been better than I thought he’d be, and he’s not killing the team (which is good), but overall he’s a solidly below average point guard.

    22. Ntilakilla

      Jack is beside the point, he is what he’s always been – a stopgap. The point is that the offense Hornacek has implemented functions on such a level that it is allowing us to score rather efficiently the past 3 games (3rd in OFFrtg) without decent guard play. It asks that our guards fill their role and make smart choices in getting the bigs open looks. This is a positive.

    23. stratomatic is sold on Frank!

      When Noah’s suspension is lifted, I think Beasley is the one that should go. I wasn’t thrilled with the signing even though he came cheaply and I haven’t seen anything to change my mind. He’s not a good defender and his BBall IQ leaves something to be desired despite his talent on offense. He just doesn’t seem to play well within a team concept. I see no need.

    24. cgreene

      @24 it’s true. Also goes to show how much art/to ratio matters. As you pointed out not one guard besides Lee has a TS% over 50. Imagine when the law averages kicks in on that and the front court continues its dominance. Isn’t that a 7-8 seed on the East?

    25. Owen

      Pointzingis has arrived. I feel a little uneasy with the high usage, shoot first turn he has taken but he plays defense and you can’t argue with the production.

      Frankie Smokes doesn’t have an NBA handle. He needs to spend a summer doing dribbling drills. I like him a lot though. The defensive upside is enormous.

      And yes, we have to trade O’Quinn. But that magnificent beard will be missed.

    26. Bruno Almeida

      While I do think some things that are happening are not sustainable (KP won’t score 30+ every night, Jack will be worse, Kanter will be worse, etc), there’s good reason to believe some of the improvements are real and not just flukes.

      With last night’s performance KP’ s TS% rose to .570 with 35.1 usage. That’s a pretty valuable player if he can keep it up, considering he’s option 1, 2 and 3 sometimes when he’s on the floor. My only fear is that he won’t be able to physically keep up, but that’s on Hornacek to keep him fresh and find other offensive options. At this point KP is playing like Melo did in his best years, but a little more efficiently and quite a lot better on defense, which is not bad at all.

    27. DRed

      Imagine when the law averages kicks in on that and the front court continues its dominance. Isn’t that a 7-8 seed on the East?

      Well, of the guys in our back court the only one I’d bet real money on showing significant improvement is Timmy. And while the offense has looked very good the last 3 games, we played two of the worst defenses in the NBA and a middling defense at the end of a road trip. So we’re going to need improved guard play if we want to keep having a good offense.

    28. DRed

      KP has been getting to the line a lot more this year, and that’s the kind of improvement that is sustainable, so that is something to be optimistic about.

    29. alsep73

      When Noah’s suspension is lifted, I think Beasley is the one that should go.

      This. I like nothing about his game on either end. Jack was earmarked to be the cut, but that’s clearly not happening now. And while Sessions didn’t play well in the first few games, I’d rather have him around as depth for Jack’s eventual mid-season injury, rather than having to depend entirely on a Baker/Frank point guard rotation, regardless of whether either young guy is ready.

      Kornet doesn’t count against the roster limit, right? Otherwise, I’d also be okay tossing him aside.

    30. bobneptune

      Nice wins but seems unsustainable. We are very vulnerable in the backcourt. We are catching teams at the right time. We haven’t been scouted yet b/c no one knew what our starting lineup and rotation would be, and the first 3 games were sloppy with weird rotations. Jack is a nice find, but better scouting will probably hurt him going forward. Our other options at PG are uninspiring unless Frank develops quickly, which is doubtful.

      The bolded is just a common example of cognitive dissonance that runs rampant here sometimes. While I certainly agree the point guard play today on this roster is below league average (by a lot), how on earth is getting more than 22,000 minutes of film on Jarrett f-in Jack going to help put the screws to the offense?

      Seriously…. nobody knows what Jack likes to do on the floor and there somehow isn’t a book on him? More scouting is going to somehow throw him off his game? And it’s not like he is playing unusually well…. 22,000 minutes of .74 ws/48 play and he is playing to a little less than that now.

      Certainly no one “expected” him to play to career average but it isn’t unheard of in the short to intermediate term. It just shows how bad the pg play was last season with Rose, Jennings and Baker was that a poor man’s Ray Felton is an upgrage.

      The 2 guard play isn’t a black hole either as you intimated.

      Frank while having flaws in his limited minutes is the best defender on the team, a natural passer, plays smart and shoots a good 3 ball in limited practice time and play time and it isn’t a reach to expect him to improve a lot over time. Even not EVER approaching the rim he is soooooo much better than Baker TODAY it isn’t even debatable.

      The easiest criticism if one absolutely is compelled to be negative is KP likely isn’t going to play to MVP level for long….. but “lack of scouting” on Jarret Jack is an extreme LOL reach.

    31. DRed

      Even not EVER approaching the rim he is soooooo much better than Baker TODAY it isn’t even debatable.

      bruh

    32. ClashFan

      Interesting reading comments in the media and boards. Start 0-3 (or 0-8, according to some), and Hornacek does not have a clue and should be fired. Win 3 in a row, and KP is a super mega star and the Knicks are for real. The joys of small sample sizes.

      I’d imagine that, if the Knicks can keep scoring well and winning in the short term that the media will attribute this to the Triangle being ditched by Hornacek. But I wonder if getting rid of ball stoppers Rose and Melo is a much bigger reason? Jack and Frank are very willing to move the ball and distribute.

      Sustainability? Can KP stay healthy and strong over the whole season? When will Jack turn into a pumpkin? Actually, maybe Jack will be fine; it’s not like he’s on a hot shooting streak that will fizzle out, but he’s getting by on his savvy, which he’s not likely to lose. However, his health and stamina may be a big issue over time. He and Frank are still vulnerable to teams that put a lot of on ball pressure, which we’ve seen both Detroit and Denver use to have big 3rd quarters.

      I think the best news early on is that vets like OQ and Lee are contributing so nicely. Very good for trade value and the Knicks absolutely should deal them if a decent offer comes around. OQ will and should opt out and be a free agent. If you like OQ, well, the Knicks can always look to sign him in the offseason after dealing him. An ideal scenario would be moving OQ and/or Lee to a team for a young PG with upside (to pair with Frank in the future) or a young wing who can defend (to pair with McD). With Lee, getting out from a year of two of his contract would also be nice going forward. And draft picks are always nice.

      And I totally agree and hope that Beasley gets released when Noah comes back. Willy and Kuz deserve to get some minutes at some time. I’d hang onto Sessions b/c of fears that Jack burns out or gets hurt.

    33. Bruno Almeida

      @36

      I’m still tentative to credit the better ball movement to Melo and Rose leaving, because well, KP is averaging 35.1 usage, but it definitely seems people are moving more on offense than before. Backdoor cuts, dives to the basket are happening quite a lot more and it seems specially Lee is more mobile on offense when he knows he won’t sit on the corner and sleep all the time.

    34. djphan

      kp’s post play is probably the biggest development and that he’s just more physical this year on the offensive end… which is the reason why he’s getting to the line more… his game is starting to look a lot like dirk’s and i couldn’t be more ecstatic…

      the usg rate is probably the only outlier… that is sitting in peak kobe territory and will probably settle in the low 30s i think….

      the only real question is whether or not he can keep up the physicality and stay healthy…. which is yes a major question mark… but even in a handful of games i think it’s safe to say at this point that kp has arrived….

    35. ClashFan

      Yeah, reasons to get very excited right now are KP taking a huge step forward and Frank’s very evident talent.

      There are still lots of question marks and concerns over the long haul. I hope the Knicks continue to look to increase the young talent level on the team. Move out vets and move in young players with some upside and/or picks.

    36. The Glass Half Rebuilt

      I just read an article that said KP is top 5 in the league for both usage and turnover percentage. We’re looking at the 2018 NBA MIP.

    37. djphan

      i don’t think ppl are allowed to be excited over frank until he shoots his first free throws… a guard who doesn’t get to the line is like a big man who can’ t rebound…

      that said.. i like what he’s shown on the defensive end even though he’s too upright on both sides of the ball…. i think he can be a nate mcmillan if the stars align… but his offense is really limited to be considered anything more than an eventual passable starter/good sixth man type…

    38. Ingmarrrr

      If winning continues and by January we’re the 6th seed do you trade next year’s first for a star wing to make us whole? Maybe Olympian Melo would be available.

    39. danvt

      An NBA season is a terrible thing to waste. The Knicks have played better over the last three games than I’ve seen in a long time. So, happy that we’re already seeing tangible results to the end of the Melo era. Yes, KP has high usage but he doesn’t stop the ball nearly as much. If he’s gonna shoot he shoots, otherwise he moves it. Please stop talking about trading our starting 3 and the first big off the bench, both of whom are playing incredibly well, I’d wager, better than any pick we might get for them. There’ll be time for trade talk if/ when the team comes back down to earth. Until we’re out of the playoff picture we need to keep this roster whole. I mean, you play to win the game right?

      So many feel good stories we forget many. McDermott playing well, Kanter is a beast down low. Jack was always a pest against us and I figured he’d be washed up once he was playing for us but wow. There’s reason to believe he’ll keep it up because FN will play a lot of minutes in his backup role or maybe even take over as starter before too long.

      Some inconsistency is to be expected (like 27-2 runs, yeesh) but I like our toughness in staying together. In short, we haven’t seen this movie yet. There’s no retread former all stars with injury histories playing major roles. For once, we have an actual foundational piece who is young and improving and a selfless deep roster who hustle and play defense. The early season efforts seem to be the outliers as the new team took a while to gel.

      Could it all go to shit? Of course. We are the New York Knicks. We may trade 5 players and three 1st rounders for Boogie. Until them I’m gonna try to enjoy this…

    40. danvt

      i think he can be a nate mcmillan if the stars align… but his offense is really limited to be considered anything more than an eventual passable starter/good sixth man type…

      The kid has played three games. He was born in 1998. He is already contributing. I know you’re a Knick fan and there’s Murphy’s law and everything but why can’t something go our way for a change?

    41. djphan

      i prefer discussions based in reality…. if we’re cheerleading here then maybe i’ve come to the wrong place for that…

    42. The Glass Half Rebuilt

      Frank Ntilikina is a two way basketball prodigy. He might never score 20+ a night but he’s exactly what this team needs if we want to be elite down the line.

    43. The Infamous Cdiggy

      At this point KP is playing like Melo did in his best years, but a little more efficiently and quite a lot better on defense, which is not bad at all.

      Not bad? That’s fan-fucking-tastic!!!
      It’s a long season, though. Still, who thought KP would come out the gate like this?

    44. 2FOR18, understands math

      It really is amazing how just letting melo and Rose go and replacing them with Kanter’s rebounding and efficiency, McBuckets’ shot selection, and a below average, yet competent, real pg has improved the watchability of this team, regardless of where this actually ends up thus season. I can watch with enjoyment AND hope for the future for the first time this century.

    45. Z-man

      Frank Ntilikina is a two way basketball prodigy. He might never score 20+ a night but he’s exactly what this team needs if we want to be elite down the line.

      of course he is. he must be. there’s already a 100-ft mural saying so.

    46. DavidCorperial

      @32 No, both Kornet and Hicks are on those new 2-way contracts, which are basically a different type of contract from the standard 15 and should not be counted as the same. You get 15 regulars and 2 2-way contracts, not 17 contracts.

    47. er

      of course he is. he must be. there’s already a 100-ft mural saying so.

      And the steps at Penn Station :)

    48. GoNyGoNyGo

      The votes are in and unless I’m mistaken, when Noah returns, Beasley is out.
      But wait!

      What about Sessions? With Jack, Baker and Frank, do we have enough point guards?

      And what about Noah himself? Where does he fit in? As another person blocking Wily from getting PT? Sure, the FO is too skittish to toss away $55-60M of salary, but what use do we have of him?

    49. er

      It really is amazing how just letting melo and Rose go and replacing them with Kanter’s rebounding and efficiency, McBuckets’ shot selection, and a below average, yet competent, real pg has improved the watchability of this team, regardless of where this actually ends up thus season. I can watch with enjoyment AND hope for the future for the first time this century.

      Eh, I think its just KP avg almost 30ppg. All the rest means nothing.

    50. Bruno Almeida

      @45

      Dude, this is a pointless argument. First Ntilikina was a G-League player who would get embarrassed every time he stepped on the court and had shown zero things to be excited about. After he shows quite some stuff to be excited about, the issue is he doesn’t get to the line. Jason Kidd averaged 2.8 FTA for his career, Gary Payton averaged 1.2 in his rookie season, 3.4 career. Rajon Rondo, 2.3 for his career, Tony Parker, 2.1 in his rookie season, Deron Williams, 1.7 rookie year, Mark Price, 1.7 rookie year, Mark Jackson, 2.2 for his career.

      All scrubs, I say.

      Not every Point Guard has to be Russell Westbrook or prime Derrick Rose.

    51. vpach

      Ex-Knick and future HOFer Jerian Grant’s 2017-2018 stats:
      TS% .425
      BPM -2.9
      3p% .063

      that doesn’t seem very good……

    52. er

      I think with KP we need to see what he looks like in the dog days. like Jan->Feb. If he is still competent, we got something.

    53. er

      Ex-Knick and future HOFer Jerian Grant’s 2017-2018 stats:
      TS% .425
      BPM -2.9
      3p% .063

      that doesn’t seem very good……

      I like his brother far far more

    54. Cock Jowles, #1 All-Rookie Benchwarmer

      Giannis has increased his PPG from 22.9 to 34.7. Porzingis 18.1 to 29.3. They’re neck and neck for the league’s most worthless award!

    55. Ntilakilla

      Not every Point Guard has to be Russell Westbrook or prime Derrick Rose.

      This. Especially in the offensive system we’re running, it places a premium on basketball intelligence will be necessary at this position since the point guard must initiate the offense from the various entries and options that are available.

    56. swiftandabundant

      I get that this is a stats driven sight but man people look lame when they dismiss a player’s contributions on a team that is winning games with “but their TS is only this” or whatever. Basketball is a team sport. Its also a sport of ebbs and flows. Inevitably on a team, even a good one, there are players who are gonna have better stats than others. That doesn’t mean the people with bad stats are hurting the team especially if they are winning.

      Stats are fine when evaluating players to draft or sign in free agency or making trades. But I feel like once you’re talking about an individual’s contributions to a team in a specific game or even a streak of games, its pretty meaningless. People play specific roles on each team.

    57. Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada

      My favorite thing about Frank is that he leads the league in STL% at 4%. He could become Kidd or Payton-esque.

      My least favorite thing is that he’s averaging 7 fouls per 36.

    58. swiftandabundant

      Honestly I’m more excited about The Knicks than I have been in years. Its more exciting than the 54 win team because this is just the beginning. We have so much youth that can get better.

      The cynics please just give us this moment.

    59. The Glass Half Rebuilt

      When Ron Baker is an accountant and Frank Ntilikina is an All-Defense selection we’ll remember these days.

      But seriously, I believe Frank Ntilikina puts it together. He’s 19 years old and he’s already an intense defender and a good open floor passer. His rebound rate is good for a guard and the assists and steals/36 are encouraging. At the same time, who cares about his statistical profile? He hasn’t even played 100 NBA minutes yet. Once he gets that handle sharpened up we have a real player. Handle = penetration, and watching him long arm his way to a lay up last night just gives you the imaging of a really good player that has to recognize his potential.

    60. Ntilakilla

      The really undervalued part of this team’s improvement during its 3 game winning streak has been its impressive improvement on defense. We’ve been 8th in DRrtg in that span against some fairly competent offensive competition in Brooklyn (8th ORrtg) Cleveland (14th ORrtg), and Denver (16th ORrtg).

    61. Ntilakilla

      BTW, Dennis Smith is getting WRECKED on defense. I just wanted to mention this since small sample sizes are definitive.

    62. nicos

      My favorite thing about Frank is that he leads the league in STL% at 4%.

      Slow down there fella- Ron Baker’s current steal rate is 4.1%!

    63. djphan

      i never said that he was a gleague level player… why are you trying to misrepresent what i’m saying?

      all those point guards you mentioned had a ftr above .200 and maintained that for their careers …. frank’s currently equals zero…

      and yes everything i say has the caveat that it’s still early…. i have never ever said that he’s a scrub and always will be… in fact i think comparing him to mcmillan is a huge compliment… but if you’re going by early returns and say he’s showing talent… no i’m sorry he is not… what you are seeing now is an approximation of what mudiay has been doing but dressed up in a new package… that doesn’t mean he can’t be more than that… but early returns are not good…

      has he shown flashes? yes.. a nice pass here.. a nice drive there… anyone that dribbles a basketball can show flashes… but real talent is when you can consistently do those things… he hasn’t demonstrated that… mostly because he hasn’t had enough court time and he’s been very passive to start… but a lot of it was evident last year… and so that’s why i think ppl are getting a little ahead of themselves because the things that frank needs to do are not easy fixes and what we’re seeing is very likely to continue.. at least for this season….

    64. danvt

      i prefer discussions based in reality

      Then you should wait more than three games to say..

      i think he can be a nate mcmillan if the stars align…

    65. djphan

      low usage … high stl rates.. passable spot up shooting… that’s what you have in 60 minutes… and what he did in france last year…

    66. ILoveHatetheKnicks

      @ 68 – yeah i wouldn’t say what frank needs to get better at are easy fixes, but they are fixable – especially if that player has a strong work ethic and the necessary basketball iq to match, something which by all accounts the kid has. does his handle need improvement. absolutely! he looked like shit against pressure last night, something even his strongest proponents assumed he would. but he doesn’t need to be marques haynes. the kid is 6’6″ with a 7ft wingspan. he’s always going to have a high dribble.

      i really think a lot of people on this site are missing the potential this kid has. he is going to get stronger, and with his work ethic he will get his handle to the point where combined with his basketball iq, strength and length, he will be better able to handle the type of athletic quick defenders we all know he has problems with. i absolutely agree that his issues are likely to continue through out this season. I will be shocked though, if three years from now, this kid is still on the knicks and he is not our starting point guard.

    67. Bruno Almeida

      @68

      The G- League was something z-man said if I’m not misremembering, sorry if I made it look like you said it.

      It’s just that there’s been a lot of talk about Ntilikina and we’re overanalyzing 68 minutes of action. I agree with you that’s it’s too early, everything, but then you come out and say PGs who don’t get to the line are not viable, and adds that Frank has .0 FTr which honestly, means nothing, unless you really think he’ll go an entire season without a single free throw. The numbers I brought up were meant to show that PGs who don’t get to the line often are and have been successful in many instances, because there are different ways to play Point Guard and be successful. That’s all. If you only focus on what a dude can’t do you’ll find ways to knock any NBA player.

      He has shown flashes that are exciting, and there are still lots of doubts and questions over what he’ll be when he’s had consistent court time, but you can’t think people won’t be excited by the flashes they’ve seen, we’re Knicks fans and nice things are hard to come by.

    68. danvt

      I do like Nate McMillan. That might be nice. I just don’t think the cynicism is necessary. He has shown quite a bit in a short amount of time. He’s gotten steals. Shown a decent stroke. Made some good passes. Made some great passes. Had some turnovers. The team has been 3-0 since he took over the backup pg spot. He won a spot over Ramon Sessions. He’s not gotten to the cup and not gone to the line.

      All in all I’m taking the over on him. Maybe that’s foolish based on small sample size. OK. Maybe I’m just happy with three wins, one over the defending conference champs. I think cherry picking stats is equally if not more foolish at this point, though, as is saying the eye test shows that he could be any prospect.

      We’ll see.

    69. Frank O.

      KP small sample, but
      TS%.570
      eFG%.522
      8.8 rebounds/36
      USG% .35
      3pt%.36

      He’s playing very well and he has room to improve.
      A 3pt/36 better and that eFG% is much improved.
      1 rebound/36 and that is rate is much better.

    70. stratomatic is sold on Frank!

      Who would win?

      Who was/is more fun to watch?

      1. Amare Knicks with Gallo, Chandler etc.. before the Melo trade.
      2. Porzingis Knicks now.

    71. Ntilakilla

      Through six games this season, Porzingis looks more like a primary option. He’s shouldering a massive amount of the offense — 35.1 usage percentage — while improving his efficiency (57 true shooting percentage, up from 54.6 a season ago and 51.8 as a rookie). That usage percentage doesn’t even present the whole picture, though, because Porzingis’s turnover rate is so low1 that he’s a different category of volume scorer than other recent high-usage players. For a more direct comparison, his 33.1 field goal attempts per 100 possessions leads the league by a mile and would have nipped at Russell Westbrook’s heels last season. Porzingis doesn’t (yet) facilitate the rest of the offense the way players like Westbrook do, but for sheer scoring burden, he has entered the very upper crust.

    72. stratomatic is sold on Frank!

      Anyone know what KP’s TS% would be without that one horrific game in Boston where he was getting doubled teamed a lot and didn’t really know how to handle it?

      Also, you have to think a LOT MORE teams are going to start doubling him. So he better learn how to pass out of it quickly.

    73. geo

      My favorite thing about Frank is that he leads the league in STL% at 4%.

      Slow down there fella- Ron Baker’s current steal rate is 4.1%!

      it might take a while before frank gets comfortable guarding the best basketball players in the world (right now those long arms are mostly good for deflecting and fouling) – but, i’m definitely excited about the prospect of frank and ron in the backcourt together trying to shut down opposing backcourts…

    74. kevin5318

      I would take current Knicks easily. Out frontcourt dominates and Frank smothers the Penguin.

      Also this team is more fun IMO since they play decent D.

    75. Frank O.

      BTW, this usage thing feels a little over-thought:
      Is there a guy on the court who can get a better look?
      At 7’3, with a high release point he easily shoots over double-teams.
      From 4-14 feet there just isn’t often a better look than a fully extended KP.
      And last year, there were a lot of folks ready to trade KP for Jokic. That would be a joke today.

    76. Bruno Almeida

      That Amare team, as fun as it was, was a ticking time bomb because we all secretly knew Amare just wouldn’t last. I think they would win in a head to head game but I’ll take this team now just because Porzingis still has room for improvement.

    77. djphan

      well frank’s zero attempts lines up well with what he did in france.. in france it was .225 and translating that over means it’s probably somewhere south of it… how far south we’ll find out at the end of the year but he’s not playing in a way that lends confidence to a decent rate…

      again.. all that can change… but players can do good things but if you’re a pg and can’t get to the basket then they tend to be out of the league in a few years….

      there’s nothing wrong with having an opinion… there’s nothing wrong with disagreeing.. there’s certainly nothing wrong with being optimistic… i just tend to disagree with the optimistic view on frank… it really should not be that big of a deal but ppl take a huge offense to it for some reason….

    78. Frank

      If KP takes a couple fewer bad shots per game (ie over doubles or other badness) and passes out of them, it would certainly be better. Thing is- this kid is only 22 and in be last off-season has seemingly gotten a lot stronger, developed post moves that very good defenders can’t touch (LeBron, Tristan Thompson, Millsap etc), improved his defensive awareness, and cut down on dumb fouls. He has a well known excellent work ethic. In two years this dude might be averaging 30/9/5 and 2 blocks per game.

    79. JK47

      Kanter has been better than I expected, and has been a plus player. The Knicks are the #1 offensive rebounding team in the league and that is almost entirely the work of Kanter and KOQ. He gives some of that back on the other end, but I really don’t think he gives all of it back. The .644 TS% on 22.8 USG and 19.0 ORB% don’t lie. He has been productive.

      Melo for Kanter, McBuckets and a high second rounder does not look bad at all right now.

    80. 2FOR18, understands math

      er, yeah KP going nuts is mainly why they’re 3-3, but I also said they’re more enjoyable to watch regardless of the record without those 2, especially rose and his head down, everybody get out the way and watch drives.

    81. 2FOR18, understands math

      Really, by the numbers, all of the top pgs drafted have been god awful. Fox has probably played the best all around so far. Man, I wanted him and his crazy defense and penetration.

    82. alsep73

      Rookie point guards are almost always terrible. The fact that this was considered the best PG draft class in ages doesn’t change that.

    83. The Glass Half Rebuilt

      @77 KP would score 50 on those Knicks. Shawne Williams, Amar’e Stoudemire, and Wilson Chandler would have took turns getting smoked and Enes Kanter would grab 25 boards considering Amar’e was playing center that season. I think these Knicks win that game.

      Amar’e Stoudemire would have had a huge game in the P&R against Kanter though.

    84. alsep73

      Sixers didn’t exercise Okafor’s option. We’ll see in the long run if KAT or KP is better, but if we weren’t going to get the first pick, boy did we luck out in sliding all the way down to 4 that year.

    85. Z-man

      The G- League was something z-man said if I’m not misremembering, sorry if I made it look like you said it.

      Misremembering, misinterpreting, and over/understating are three things you are very good at when it comes to your golden child.

      Whether you agree with them or not, my G-League comments are perfectly logical if you care to go back and read them. Essentially, I said that Frank will probably struggle badly early on (as he has) and it is possible that if his struggles continue or worsen, he will lose confidence and/or Horny will lose confidence in him. At that point, a stint in the G-League where he can play extended minutes and work on specific things would help him gain both confidence and skill. It might take a couple of games or maybe longer, but he should dominate down there. And my feeling is that anyone who can’t dominate in the G-League is clearly not ready to play in the NBA.

      You and others can feel free to disagree with this, but I wish that it could be done without objectively and without condescension. I have no problem with anyone saying that they think he should be kept with the big team and even played regardless of how poorly he plays, that’s a valid strategy, just one I wouldn’t embrace.

      Of course, if he starts playing better, by all means, keep playing him! The last 10 games in November should be pretty telling, most of those teams are either really good or have excellent players at the guard position.

      And more generally, if you (and others) insist on being ultra-sensitive to any criticism of Frank, I’ll be happy to continue the dialogue as it stands right now.

    86. ClashFan

      Right now, Frank really doesn’t need to finish at the rim to be very useful. Sure, later on we want to see his offense improve, but his shooting form looks pretty sweet, and he’s got range out to three.

      But right now he is useful b/c he is a willing and good passer, and he plays good D. Short term, let’s hope he can cut down on turnovers and fouls a bit. That’s where we should look for early improvement.

      If he were to slide into a starter’s role later this season, KP, Kanter, and THJ are all in there to soak up usage and score. All of the PG in this year’s draft need time.

    87. Bruno Almeida

      @94

      As long as you keep painting your impressions as objectivity and mine and the other “ultra-sensitive” guys as defense of our golden child, it gets kinda hard dude.

      Objectively, you said there was nothing to like about him as a prospect. Objectively, you are wrong. And yet, banner jokes have been your forte so far in those discussions, when, objectively, nobody ever said banners should be hanged or said that the kid is a surefire transcendental star. If only your side of the argument is deemed objective, there’s no reason to have an argument at all.

    88. JK47

      Let’s say Frank doesn’t stick at PG, but he does become a productive SG who is a lockdown defender with plus passing ability for a SG. That’s still a pretty valuable player. That would be the equivalent of drafting a SS who doesn’t stick at SS but does become a Gold Glove 2B.

    89. danvt

      again.. all that can change… but players can do good things but if you’re a pg and can’t get to the basket then they tend to be out of the league in a few years….
      … it really should not be that big of a deal but ppl take a huge offense to it for some reason….

      I certainly take no offense. I mean, expecting the worst is a lot of what we do around here. But when you imply he’ll be out of the league in a few years because he hasn’t shown some sides of his game yet, you’re making the bigger logical leap and people are going to call you out.

      Of course, if he starts playing better, by all means, keep playing him!

      Am I missing something? 2-5 with a 3, 2 Reb, 2 Steals, 1 Ast, 4TO (sure), 4 Fouls (OK), +1 in 16 minutes. Not his best game but G-League?

      As we said, we shall see. He’s made some mistakes but the game seems well rounded. Would you rather see Sessions as backup? Again, no attitude…

    90. Ntilakilla

      Let’s say Frank doesn’t stick at PG, but he does become a productive SG who is a lockdown defender with plus passing ability for a SG. That’s still a pretty valuable player. That would be the equivalent of drafting a SS who doesn’t stick at SS but does become a Gold Glove 2B.

      Which was always my point and the reason why this “G-League” talk is stuff and nonsense.

    91. ILoveHatetheKnicks

      @94

      Objective fact (nets game) – he showed a soft touch against length (that jumper on the baseline when allen was closing out on him) as well as that floater towards the end of the game. He showed really good vision (the two passes to o’quinn and beasley). His passes hit shooters in stride or in a position where they were ready to shoot (mcdermott pass for three which he missed, Kristaps pass for three, lee’s pass for three, hardaway pass for three which he missed);

      Objective fact (cavs game) – showed soft touch again on the baseline jumper he made against Korver. Showed his court vision again on the bounce pass that hit timmy in stride;

      Objective fact (nuggets game) – nice hesitation, change of pace drive to the basket for a lay-up.

      do all these objective facts make him a can’t miss prospect and our presumptive point guard of the future. absolutely not. they were just glimpses. but personally they intrigue me enough to think that coupled with his apparently strong work ethic and basketball iq, he may be able to overcome some of his obvious limitations to become a starting point guard in this league. clearly however, you believe objectively that you seen all you need to see from him and feel differently.

    92. Z-man

      @97 Who would be the comparison? Ron Harper? Darrell Walker? Iman Shumpert? Kawhi Leonard? Marcus Smart? All of those guys fit your description to some degree. The question becomes: how productive? But that is where I see his career path eventually going. I don’t see a PG at all.

    93. Z-man

      This video analysis is objective as well:

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4o-3xL5m16I

      He does some good things (and did so in every performance thus far) but he also does lots of bad things, and those things are along the lines of the Schmitz weaknesses video (which doesn’t mention his foul rate, which was quite high in France, 4.5 per 36.) He made a straight line uncontested layup with his dominant hand, which is his only shot inside of 10 feet out of the 23 he has taken. He’s 4-14 on long 2’s. He hasn’t attempted a FT. The one thing he seems potentially good at is shooting 3’s…seems very comfortable with the distance. The problem is, if he can’t turn the corner or finish with both hands except when uncontested, if he can’t handle ball pressure, and he continues to play PG, his turnover rate will go up, not down. Defenses will start guarding him closely at the 3-pt line and funneling him to his vulnerabilities.

      Now, he could get better at those things. But objectively, everything he is struggling with is in line with what he struggled with in Europe, where he was playing mostly off the ball. If you guys choose to be blinded by your love for the kid and his promise, that’s OK. I was the same way with Shumpert and he never improved all that much on the weaknesses revealed by Schmitz (let’s not forget that Shump played a lot of PG as a Knick, especially as a rookie.) I know Frank is 19 and all, but I don’t think his handle and turn-the-corner ability improve all that much. That’s why I agree with JK47 in that he will probably wind up as a good passing defensive 2 who can shoot pretty well from 3 and might develop a decent pull-up in the 10-15ft range.

    94. djphan

      Getting to the basket is a key skill for any guard… being able to breakdown a defense and create opportunies for yourself or others is probably the most important… thats why all these pg busts have passable numbers elsewhere but are about a couple yrs away from being out of the league…

      He’s not destined to be like that but he hasnt demonstrated in france and he hasnt demonstrated it here yet.. its def not too late but to get from where hes currently at to where he needs to be is a big gap….

      It isnt that far of a logical leap… a guy like mitchell or ball had similar issues in college and having huge issues at this level…. is it fair to say that their potential is a bit limited because of that? I think so… and thats really all im saying….

    95. djphan

      Also to add… foul rate and turnovers arent a huge issue… those almost always get better as a player progresses… there are other things that are much harder to improve and thats really the number one question for frank….

      With kp it was rebounding but he established early on that hes def capable… we just dont have that with frank… at least yet…

    96. MSA

      IMO we drafted a SG and for some reason everybody thinks he is a PG.

      Frank has absolutely no handle to be playing PG.

      Maybe one day he will master this, but I seriously doubt that this skill will be learned in one season.

    97. Ben R

      I hated the Ntilikina pick. I thought he wasn’t really a PG and he should have been more dominant against inferior competition. But I am pretty happy with what I’ve seen so far.

      His defense seems to be as advertised and his passing is much better than I expected. I am not at all worried about his foul rate or his turnovers. Both should go down. Bench defenders always have high foul rates because they have a green light to be aggressive. Also as he learns what is and isn’t a foul in the NBA it will also help.

      His shooting seems good, the sample rate is very small but after missing his first 6 shots, some due to clear nerves, he has calmed down and has shot 50% from 2 and 43% from 3. Again more interested in how his shots have looked, than any numbers because it’s so early.

      His passing is what has surprised me the most he has made quite a few great passes and seems smart moving the ball around and other than a couple lazy entry passes his passing seems tight. His dribble is loose but less loose than I expected and should tighten up.

      The only big negative, which will probably always be a negative is his penetration. He will get less passive but based on what we’ve seen so far and his time in France he will probably never be a rim attacking guard and I think that’s okay. Our future is inside out with KP and Tim should be able to attack sometimes as well. Make smart passes, play great defense, have poise under pressure and shoot 3’s. If KP’s for real that’s all we really need from the PG spot.

      I don’t see all-star, though he is so young things could change but 10-14 pts, 7-8 asts, 2-3 stls with elite defense is what I’m hoping for. Think Toronto Calderon with elite defense.

    98. Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada

      Toronto Calderon with elite defense is like a top 10 player in the league. Calderon was really fucking good when in Canada

    99. ptmilo

      Andrew Wiggins is making his leap

      a few people have said this. i’ve seen most of his minutes. he looks exactly the same to me.

    100. Z-man

      KP is still not a great rebounder, but that is not as essential for him. He has two major strengths: scoring in numerous ways and protecting the rim. Rebounding helps, but he can get away with being so-so at it.

      A PG can’t really get away with having glaring issues with ball-handling and beating defenders in both directions on dribble-drives. You have to be somewhat unpredictable to consistently create passing lanes and space. In the Schmitz video, you can see his struggles with ball pressure (Jaramaz stripped him a couple of times) and I saw some of that last night, especially vs. Barton. If I were defending him, I’d put a tough defensive player in his grill and force him to move east and west, daring him to drive by you. If the guy guarding him gets beat, assume he will try to pass and force him to take a mildly-contested shot around the rim, preferably with his left hand. In other words, take the 3 and the mid-range pull-up away from him and make him shoot long 2’s and awkward layups.

    101. JK47

      I’m just happy to have a guy who can be described using the following terms:

      Defense-oriented
      High-IQ

      I don’t need the guy to be the ankle-breaker of reub’s fever dreams. Just give me a guy who makes the right plays, and who can actually defend. If he’s a latter-day Derek Harper in terms of his defensive impact, I’ll be chuffed.

    102. Bruno Almeida

      @108

      Yeah, Calderon was very underrated at that time. Another example of a guy who didn’t get to the line at all and was still very good.

    103. Bruno Almeida

      @111

      Exactly. We’ve just been through with a dude who could drive and get to the rim against any player in Derrick Rose and he was terrible.

      Of course I would have rather drafted Russell Westbrook, but if you give me a choice between good defense and high IQ, or gets past defenders with great first step and gets to the rim, I’d take the first one every day.

    104. The Glass Half Rebuilt

      Don’t worry about Frank Ntilikina’s handle. He will improve in this area if he wants to play in this league. He’s a 19 year old point guard playing against grown men. Even Luka Doncic has to dribble with his back facing guys, and he’s not even in the NBA yet. By year 3, Frank will be tantalizing the crowd with his crossovers. He already has an innate understand of how to get by guys, he just can’t do it yet. That’s not the end of the world when you’re the 2nd youngest player in the NBA.

    105. ptmilo

      Kanter has been better than I expected, and has been a plus player. The Knicks are the #1 offensive rebounding team in the league and that is almost entirely the work of Kanter and KOQ. He gives some of that back on the other end, but I really don’t think he gives all of it back. The .644 TS% on 22.8 USG and 19.0 ORB% don’t lie. He has been productive.

      I guess. His TS% and his REB #s are nuts. He seems important to a lineup that otherwise rolls out very little rebounding, but that’s also helping his numbers. He’s at least as bad a defender/passer as he always was. To me he looks even worse than expected on D and I didn’t expect shit. I just don’t think you can be a very productive player when you never pass, can’t defend a lick (as a big), can’t shoot, and turn it over a lot, almost no matter what else you do. Maybe worth noting the Knicks are -9/100 with him in, a silly sample but a Kanter career staple.

    106. stratomatic is sold on Frank!

      Turnover and Foul rates are often high for rookies, especially rookie PGs. It’s practically the standard. It’s not like I’m happy he’s not one of the exceptions to the rule, but this is a 19 year old kid with no summer league, almost no pre season, and about 100 minutes of pro ball. It’s almost preposterous to be focusing on this kind of thing.

      IMO, we should be looking for PG skills. By that I mean his handle, ability to break down a defense, see the court, and make accurate passes. So far I’m surprised by his skills in that area. His stats in Europe did not look especially promising in term of him becoming a pure PG and from what I saw he looked more like he wanted to play off the ball. He has work to do (as they all do), but right now I see no reason he can’t take over the job eventually and maybe as soon as the all star break if he progresses with experience.

    107. Bruno Almeida

      One bizarre development of this season is that Domantas Sabonis might just be a superstar and Oladipo is playing so damn well. It would be funny as hell if genius Presti actually lost both trades in the end.

    108. The Glass Half Rebuilt

      If Domantas Sabonis is a superstar the Knicks need to hire me because I called it.

    109. JK47

      I loved Sabonis as a prospect, then he was just so abysmal as a rookie. It’s early obviously, but sometimes talented young guys do make leaps.

    110. Bruno Almeida

      @118

      He’s averaging 14.2 rebounds per 36 and 18.1 points with .683 ts%. Dude had like 3 games already where he didn’t miss a single shot, and the Pacers are playing without Myles Turner still. I was pretty sure Indiana was at least decent and had them at the over, but if they can somehow sustain something close to this level they’re a playoff team for sure.

    111. stratomatic is sold on Frank!

      I just don’t think you can be a very productive player when you never pass, can’t defend a lick (as a big), can’t shoot, and turn it over a lot, almost no matter what else you do. Maybe worth noting the Knicks are -9/100 with him in, a silly sample but a Kanter career staple.

      I agree.

      He’s a misleading guy. I used to think he was very underrated. His scoring, TS%, and rebounding jump out at you. Those are the things most people look at first and they also weigh heavily in most models. But these days you want your starting C to protect the paint and have some shooting range to keep space. He doesn’t do either and turns the ball over a lot for a guy that doesn’t get a lot of assists. What he gives you in some ways he gives up in others. That’s why his +/- numbers are almost always surprisingly weak and why he had trouble getting on the court at times for OKC. Maybe he’ll learn and improve. He’s still young for a C. But right now IMO he’s not a starting C on a serious team. He’s a very good backup. The one and only reason I am so anxious to see more of Willy is that he’s similar in some ways. We have all these Cs, but I’m not sure any of them is actually the long term answer.

    112. Z-man

      I’m just happy to have a guy who can be described using the following terms:

      Defense-oriented
      High-IQ

      Understood and appreciated. I think it’s a bit more complicated than that.

    113. ILoveHatetheKnicks

      Personally I’m hoping frank isn’t thrown in as the full time starter until next year. Maybe a few spot starts here and there this year as the season progresses, if the vets need it. I think for now how they are using him is cool. Second point guard off the bench, with hopefully an increase in minutes and pressure situations if he shows he can handle it.

    114. nicos

      Right now with Frank it’s pretty much confirmation bias- of you thought he was going to be a good point, he’s probably shown enough flashes to inspire confidence. If you thought he was a two or a combo guard at best (I’m including myself here) he hasn’t done much to dispel that notion. He’s barely played and he’s probably going to struggle on the offensive end for much of the season like most young points do- both future greats and bums alike. He seems smart, works hard, and has great defensive tools. It’s pretty clear he’s not going to be a Jan Vesely level bust so I’m happy with that and I’m going to try not to make every play- good or bad- somehow indicative of his future success.

    115. JK47

      I guess I like the player Frank COULD be better than the player Dennis Smith COULD be. I just don’t really like the ball-dominant, scoring-oriented, defensively indifferent AAU-style point guard all that much. When I saw the Derrick Rose/Baron Davis comps of Smith, my reaction was “meh.” I’ve seen plenty of that type of player, and not just at the PG position. The Knicks have been chasing pointzz guys ever since Ewing and JVG left town.

      I still have no idea what to make of Frank, and he’s a high-variance prospect to be sure, but I’m not bummed that we missed out on Smith.

    116. yellowboy90

      Anyone see fatty Felton play this year? He looks nice as a backup

      Guy has started the season looking like a pre-nail in the coffin Kidd. Probably even better really.

    117. Z-man

      JK, I probably like what DSjr COULD be more, only because he seems like a pure PG with unlimited offensive potential and we haven’t had a decent PG in forever. But I agree there is a selfish/low IQ aspect to his game and of course the knee issues, as well as defensive issues. He could wind up being in that Baron Davis/Derrick Rose/Steph Marbury category (which I would not like)…or he could be more like some version of Kyrie/Isaiah/Lowry/Lillard/Kemba, which I would like a lot even though they all have warts. Or he could suck completely.

      But if Frank turns into something like Dennis Johnson or Chauncey Billups or Nate McMillan, I’m down with that. He’s obviously a smart kid and a hard worker and has some physical advantages, so maybe he develops into something special; I’m just not seeing it now. As soon as I start seeing it beyond glimpses, I’ll be happy to hop on board the F train.

    118. Ntilakilla

      Understood and appreciated. I think it’s a bit more complicated than that.

      It really isn’t. If you load a team full of guys like that playing in a smart scheme you will have a winning squad. Look at the Spurs.

    119. Ntilakilla

      Frank’s comp should be Dejounte Murray. Very similar body types and strengths. Spurs continue to roll the dice on him at PG even though he’s a 6’5″ guard with a high dribble because they believe he can plug into their offensive system and be a plus defender.

    120. Bruno Almeida

      It’s kinda funny because now the Dejounte comparison makes sense, but before the draft one of the main complaints scouts had about him was that he didn’t care on defense and had poor fundamentals. Guess the Spurs can help anyone with anything when it comes to player development.

    121. Ntilakilla

      I have no doubt the Spurs would have drafted Ntilikina over Smith or Monk at that #8 spot. Hell, I wouldn’t have been surprised if they had him higher on their list. He’s exactly the type of player Pop salivates over and seeks to plug into his system. Murray is like an older version. This is enough validation for me.

    122. nicos

      Come on, how many championships did Pop win with Tony Parker at the point? If he was that in love that style of point guard he would have never traded George Hill. Can he make it work? Sure. But he had a jitterbug-y penetrating high usage point guard running his offense for years- the idea that he wouldn’t have considered Smith is crazy.

    123. Z-man

      @135 +1
      PS DeJounte Murray was drafted #29; if we drafted Frank at #29, I’d be doing cartwheels. He also spent a whole bunch of time in the G-League, but god forbid that anyone suggests that Frank does the same. PSS He has been pretty terrible, statistically speaking. The Spurs have the 24th ranked offense in the league.

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