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Sunday, August 20, 2017

Knicks Morning News (2017.08.11)

  • [NY Newsday] Knicks to host 76ers on Christmas, open season at Oklahoma City Thunder
    (Thursday, August 10, 2017 6:44:21 PM)

    The Knicks will tip off the NBA’s Christmas Day quintupleheader against the 76ers at noon on ESPN, a matchup featuring teams that combined to win only 59 games last season.

  • [NYPost] Knicks, Rockets renew Carmelo trade talk (with a twist): report
    (Thursday, August 10, 2017 3:58:40 PM)

    The Knicks trade talks for Carmelo Anthony are back on again — if they were ever off in the first place. With Anthony still maintaining that he only will be willing to go to Houston in a deal, the Knicks reportedly re-engaged the Rockets in trade talks Thursday. Houston has started talking to other teams…

  • [NYPost] Knicks fans’ Christmas Day just got more interesting
    (Thursday, August 10, 2017 6:10:38 AM)

    Despite the Knicks embarking on a full rebuild, the networks like them on Christmas.

  • [SNY Knicks] Knicks, Rockets resume Carmelo Anthony trade talks
    (Thursday, August 10, 2017 7:08:50 PM)

    The Knicks and Rockets have resumed trade discussions surrounding Carmelo Anthony, sources have told ESPN, but “no pathway has emerged” at this time.

  • [SNY Knicks] Report: Melo would not waive no-trade clause for Pelicans
    (Thursday, August 10, 2017 10:15:34 AM)

    While DeMarcus Cousins and the Pelicans have interest in acquiring Carmelo Anthony, the All-Star forward is apparently not willing to waive his no-trade clause to go to New Orleans, reports Marc Berman of the New York Post.

  • [SNY Knicks] New York Sports Today: Anthony will not waive no-trade clause for Pelicans
    (Thursday, August 10, 2017 9:53:15 AM)

  • [NYTimes] Zach Randolph Arrested on Marijuana Charge Amid Skirmish With Police
    (Thursday, August 10, 2017 11:46:28 PM)

    Randolph, who signed with the Sacramento Kings in July, was arrested after he ran from a large gathering at a housing project, the police said.

  • [ESPN] Sources: Rockets, Knicks re-engage on Melo
    (Thursday, August 10, 2017 5:07:43 PM)

    Sources: Rockets, Knicks re-engage on Melo

  • [ESPN] Warriors-Cavs tops NBA’s Christmas presence
    (Thursday, August 10, 2017 10:19:59 AM)

    Warriors-Cavs tops NBA’s Christmas presence

  • [NYDN] NBA’s Zach Randolph arrested in L.A. for intent to distribute pot
    (Thursday, August 10, 2017 9:10:17 PM)

    The Kings want their new power forward to distribute, but this is not what they had in mind.

  • [NYDN] Carmelo keeping title dreams alive with possible Rockets trade
    (Thursday, August 10, 2017 9:09:24 PM)

    Carmelo Anthony being dealt to the Houston Rockets is still a strong possibility.

  • [NYDN] Knicks to open 2017-18 season at Oklahoma City
    (Thursday, August 10, 2017 2:52:53 PM)

    The Knicks start their season as big underdogs.

  • 82 comments on “Knicks Morning News (2017.08.11)

    1. 2FOR18, understands math

      Interesting that Wilt was probably the greatest volleyball player ever, and Jim Brown the greatest Lacrosse player ever.
      Any other cross-sport examples like that to that extreme, where a player dominated 2 sports?

    2. Z-man

      I think that when we are talking about the truly transcendent athletes, they could generally dominate in any sport they choose. The sports that require training from childhood in the use of special equipment are another story, like golf, tennis, hockey, but if they took up those sports as little kids, they would probably have dominated those as well.

      Athletes like Wilt, Bo Jackson, Jim Thorpe, Jim Brown, Babe Zaharius, are freaks. There’s probably some physiological difference accountable for their combination of superhuman strength, coordination and endurance. Maybe LeBron and Jordan are of this ilk. Maybe Babe Ruth. But in Wilt’s case, it’s the combination of height, length, bulk, speed, agility, and most of all, endurance, that sets him apart.

      Two unappreciated feature of 1960’s-early ’70’s basketball is the blistering pace of play and the tight scheduling. The average team took 107 field goal attempts, meaning many more trips up and down the floor. There were no TV obligations, so time-outs were 1 minute, halftimes were shorter, etc. Chamberlain averaged 50 and 25 in 48.5 minutes per game in canvas sneakers. And if you look at the game schedules, it includes numerous back-to-back-to-backs, including a stretch of 6 games in 7 nights, where Wilt scored 78,61, 55, 54, 52 and 43 points. It also included a back-to-back-to-back-to-back-to-back, where Wilt scored 62, 54, 53, 44 and 62! The 48.5 minutes per game thing is maybe the greatest single-season sports feat in any sport, especially given the amount of energy it must have taken to garner all of those points and rebounds (and probably numerous blocks per game as well.) He also averaged 17 FTAs per game, meaning that he was taking a beating.

      Not to mention the ladies….

    3. 2FOR18, understands math

      Yeah, that’s how Oscar averaged a triple double back then – the pace was crazy. Wilt probably did too if they had counted blocks.

    4. Z-man

      I think it’s fair to say that Wilt’s (and other’s) rebounding stats were inflated b/c lots of low-percentage shots were taken and most centers were physically inferior to Wilt. His per 36 stats (37 and 19) are in the same ballpark with Jordan (pts) and Rodman (rebs) and he collected less available rebounds than Rodman, but I would argue that he had a lot more to do on the offensive end and could not just focus on rebounding and defense like Rodman, nor did he get to rest as much either during or between games. But Rodman is surely in the same category of physical freak strength and endurance-wise, just not as coordinated and probably more limited in the sports he could have been great at.

    5. Bo Nateman

      Wilt also did track and field in high school and at Kansas ( high jump won Big 8 title) and also did a stint with Globetrotters. In 1969, I observed him get undercut in a game at MSG, do a 180 in the air landing flat on his back. He got up without hesitation and ran down court.

    6. 2FOR18, understands math

      Speaking of low percentage shots/ inefficiency, Bob Cousy made Iverson look like Nash.

    7. Z-man

      But in that time, very few players shot 50% from the field. Wilt led the league in 1960-61 @ 51% and in 1965-66 at 54%. Part of the reason was that the lane was narrower and centers lurked at the basket, so layups were risky propositions and only certain big men dunked. Offenses were geared nearly entirely around mid-range shots. Another misconception about Wilt is that he dunked his way to 50 points a game. He actually had an great Tim/Dirk-esque fallaway shot.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8O9MgNfcGJA

      The truth is that Tim, Dirk and Wilt missed as many or more of these shots than they made. But the layup-dunk pumped up Wilt’s FG%. In the case of guards like Cousy, that option wasn’t available. Cousy was not a great shooter, but probably not as bad as the numbers suggest.

    8. Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada

      Great posts today Z-Man. We should just turn this into a general NBA blog during the dog days of summer. It’s much more interesting than agonizing over Melo

    9. Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada

      Clyde shooting 52% from the field on 15 attempts a game as a PG in that era is insane.

      Does anyone have any idea what his wingspan was? His measurements seem kinda similar to Frank, tho he was an inch or two shorter. Not that Frank will be the next Clyde (though if he wanted to be the best backcourt defender of all time then I’d be all for it lol.)

    10. Bruno Almeida

      http://bleacherreport.com/articles/713068-2011-nba-draft-top-10-potential-first-round-draft-busts

      Someone on Reddit just posted this list, it’s pretty funny to look at in hindsight.

      “Kawhi Leonard: San Diego State

      Although he has the potential to become an excellent rebounder in the NBA, he will not live up his hype as a future lottery pick. He is still 19 years old, lacks a perimeter game which is crucial for a small forward and he has very little down low presence.

      He will end up becoming a sixth or seventh man on most teams, and after four or five years he will most likely disappear from the league. Kawhi is not worthy of getting picked in the top 10 of this year’s NBA draft.” Well…

    11. Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada

      Lmao Kawhi was like a top 30 player his rookie year I love shitty eye test draft analysis

    12. TheOakmanCometh

      On the other hand, FG% in the 60s and 70s was helped by the lack of a 3-point line. Guards took more jumpers from 18 feet than 23 feet because there was no incentive to be that far back.

    13. TheOakmanCometh

      “Kawhi Leonard: San Diego State

      Although he has the potential to become an excellent rebounder in the NBA, he will not live up his hype as a future lottery pick. He is still 19 years old, lacks a perimeter game which is crucial for a small forward and he has very little down low presence.

      He will end up becoming a sixth or seventh man on most teams, and after four or five years he will most likely disappear from the league. Kawhi is not worthy of getting picked in the top 10 of this year’s NBA draft.”

      Hahaha, that’s classic. Other than saying “Shaquille O’Neal is too skinny to play center and will get pushed around in the post,” it’s hard to imagine a scouting report being more wrong.

    14. 2FOR18, understands math

      I remember 2 things from the Kawhi draft: All the talk about his giant hands and defense, and a lot of hype that he would be the steal of the draft. He reminded me of the Paul Pierce and Danny Grainger drafts where I couldn’t believe they fell that far.
      It’s probably why Boston seemed to reach for Jaylen Brown.
      The tide always turns, so since length and wingspan among wings are all the rage now, the new market inefficiency to look for in drafts might be in bigs like Zach and John Collins, Bam and Jordan Bell (I still can’t believe GS ended up with him). Those are guys that probably go top 10 20 years ago.

    15. TheOakmanCometh

      It’s also strange that that scout predicted Kawhi would be a 6th or 7th man on most teams, yet would somehow disappear from the league after 4 or 5 years. Most 6th/7th men have long careers.

      Hell, even 9th/10th men like Jordan Farmar and Cole Aldrich have 10+ year careers.

    16. plenty

      Yeah that’s not just lazy analysis, it’s worse than that. A scouts job requires some misses inevitably, but the justification is so weak here it’s almost as if it was based off one bad workout and the scout mailed it in after that. That’s egregious, Jackie chiles!

    17. Mike R

      Melo getting tough and saying he will only accept a deal to the rockets makes me think that they should not trade him now. Call his bluff. Why should we bow down to his demands? Screw that. Get the best deal and if he rejects it then screw him. Keep him, play him, and ride it out. Let him be miserable. He will cave eventually.

    18. Z-man

      Keeping Melo is the best strategy right now. Either Houston or Melo will cave. Or alternatively, he stays and the Knicks will be surprisingly good.

    19. Nick C.

      Petit was the de facto All-Time PF until guys like Karl Malone and Duncan came along.

      As far as the FG%s back in the day, my guess was that smoke filled arenas could not have been conducive to shooting. I’m sure the court surfaces were imperfect. The old Boston Garden was legend for that. The balls probably were not the best either.

    20. Jack Bauer

      Kawhi worked hard to improve on his game every year in college. His dedication to getting better was off the charts so I thought he’d be good. I didn’t think he’d improve his shot as much as he has. Besides Lebron he’s probably the best 2 way player in the league right now. His perimeter defense is generally as good as it gets.

    21. 2FOR18, understands math

      I think the Doncic videos videos at the end of the article might convince some non-tankers to change sides to full tank mode. OMG his ball handling and passing are Lebron/Magic-esque.

    22. Cock Jowles, #1 Usage Soaker

      I think Jordan Bell and Pat McCaw are going to be All-NBA 3rd Team caliber players when the current GS stars are leaving their primes. Wouldn’t be surprised to see 5 of 6 championships won.

    23. Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada

      Bob Petit over George Mikan? Idk. But they’re both top 3 players of the 50s, if not the top 2.

    24. plenty

      24 – Preach! Like giving up meat for lent, this blog would do wonders to trim the Carmelo drama saga one day a week.

      re: Doncic – damn that’s some bball IQ. he’d fit so well with porzingis, could you imagine having to defend those two?

    25. Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada

      Doncic, to me, is head and shoulders above his competition. He’s so clearly the #1 pick, putting up basically unrivaled (outside of Rubio’s legendary final season in Spain) stats in the ACB on a team that beat an NBA team in an exhibition match a few years ago. He looks like Lebron on offense, with more ball handling, better shooting, and less athleticism.

      I think his defensive worries are a bit overstated–on ball defense is generally overrated by observers versus off ball defense, which gets less attention, but while Doncic isn’t a good on ball defender, he’s a competent off ball defender insofar as his positioning and awareness and rotations are good. I think he’ll adjust, despite never being a net plus on ball. He’d be perfect paired with Frank and KP, though. He should be our guy, easily #1 on the Knicks draft board, imo.

      Bamba is my favorite of the American prospects–he looks Tyson-esque in his ability to guard 5 positions and switch onto guards in the pnr, plus his absurd measureables and a developing offensive repertoire (really all he needs to do is catch alley oops.)

      How absurd is it that Noel hasn’t been signed? I’d sign him even though we have Willy and KP, and I’d just figure out later–too bad we have no cap space anymore. Dude is an amazing player.

    26. Cock Jowles, #1 Usage Soaker

      I think that 30 days before preseason, we should have an “outlook” thread for each team, in order of last year’s record. It just has to be a themed thread where only that team, its roster, staff and transactions are discussed.

    27. Bruno Almeida

      That would be really good, I definitely agree too.

      I agree with you Silky, as much as Bagley and Porter look amazing, I just love Bamba. The kid will be DeAndre Jr and will be effective for a decade. I just hope scouts screw up the process so much in finding warts on Doncic’ s game that he eventually drops a bit, but he’s so good it’s probably never happening. There’s no way someone as complete as him will get overlooked.

    28. ptmilo

      yeah it will be a breath of fresh air to rehash the original melo trade under various team previews instead of the usual news threads.

      vescey is claiming Phil offered kp for the Boston #1 and wanted to take lonzo.

    29. Jack Bauer

      Unfortunately the Knicks are more than likely not going to suck enough or be lucky enough at ping pong balls to get the #1 or #2 pick to get Doncic. So as usual we will go through talking about how great he would fit in with KP and WH, how awesome his handle and scoring ability is, his bball IQ, etc… for 9 or 10 months building up the false hope only to see the Knicks picking at 6 – 9 with no chance at him. He’ll be a fantastic NBA player someday…………for some other team.

    30. TheOakmanCometh

      vescey is claiming Phil offered kp for the Boston #1 and wanted to take lonzo.

      If that’s true and Boston turned it down, Ainge is a lot dumber than I thought.

    31. Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada

      Yeah that’s definitely in Boston’s favor

      Phil’s a bad GM when it comes to anything other than drafting–dude has worse asset valuation than the average NBA fan, which is absurd given that he’s one of the all time great coaches (not too absurd, since coaching != GMing, but he should at least be better than your average NBA fan and he really, really isn’t.)

    32. Scorpio Dragon

      Doncic would be great. Porter Jr. looks solid. The top prospects of 2018 would be useful to the Knicks. But honestly, unless one of them has a horrible year or injury, they’re not going to fall to us. While we will be undoubtedly bad, we won’t be tanking the season like other teams. And that’s where we will fail to garner enough ping-pong balls to grab one of the top targets. I’m not an advocate for tanking, but with our team, we will be better than Phoenix, Orlando, or Atlanta. We’ll be solidly in the range of Brooklyn, Sacramento, Indiana and Chicago. We could easily end up with the 8th pick or worse if a team jumps us.

      We need to trade Melo and commit to a youth movement. Even if it means waiting until we can package THJr with him in December.

    33. TheOakmanCometh

      Phil had another strange quote from his interview with Vecsey.

      “Winning is a priority in NY and I couldn’t get those guys into at least a 500% season so we could get some free space to rebuild.”

      So he was making a bunch of win-now moves in order to get us to .500, so that he could then tear it down and rebuild? Huh?

    34. Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada

      @41

      I think our “ceiling” is the #4 or #5 pick, since everything past the 3 worst teams seem evenly matched, to me. I could see Doncic falling to 4 or 5 depending on the team that’s drafting and if Ayton/Porter/Bamba/Bagley all perform to expectations given bias towards NCAA college prospects. So there’s a small but still decent chance of us being able to net Doncic.

      If we don’t get them I think we should opt for Miles Bridges (destined to be a Knick, really), Isaac Bonga, Troy Brown (looks like Evan Turner who can actually shoot the ball into the ocean with elite measureables and can play SF even though he’s a SG currently), or Duval, in that order of preference. We need a SF like Melo needs to get out of town.

    35. Scorpio Dragon

      I dunno, I think gone are the days where teams just draft based on height. Of the list of teams we’re in: Phoenix, Orlando, Atlanta, Brooklyn, Sacramento, Indiana and Chicago., I only see Sacramento’s (Divac’s a bit of a wild card to me, but I’m hoping big man bias comes into play there) and Chicago’s FO (Paxson/Forman haven’t really made good deals or picks in a while) being bad enough to think that way. Maybe Phoenix passes on him because they’re enamored with Booker and they’ll need to see Josh Jackson develop. That still leaves Orlando, Atlanta, Indiana and Boston (via Brooklyn). Boston would trade away the pick for him and we don’t have anything they want outside of KP (who should be well off-limits unless he has a major regression). Or they could draft him and trade away Tatum if they want to give up early on him.

      Honestly there are way too many variables before we can start thinking about who we get if we’re at the top of the draft.

    36. Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada

      @43

      I think the idea was that Phil takes on short term contracts, gets the team to .500 to satisfy fans/the media/Dolan, then signs young players to long term deals after running Melo etc out of town. That’s my most charitable reconstruction of those admittedly confusing remarks. It was a bad plan.

    37. Cock Jowles, #1 Usage Soaker

      yeah it will be a breath of fresh air to rehash the original melo trade under various team previews instead of the usual news threads.

      I’m actually laughing, which will soon turn to crying

    38. iserp

      Phil had another strange quote from his interview with Vecsey.

      “Winning is a priority in NY and I couldn’t get those guys into at least a 500% season so we could get some free space to rebuild.”

      So he was making a bunch of win-now moves in order to get us to .500, so that he could then tear it down and rebuild? Huh?

      Maybe he wanted to retool with the comfort of a .500 record, because he knew that if it was less, Dolan (or Dolans lackeys in the media) would pressure him into doing win-now moves (Like Derrick Rose and Noah); but maybe he is just spinning it that way to look good.

    39. danvt

      I’m actually laughing, which will soon turn to crying

      Yeah, we get it. Everyone’s dumb. You don’t need to bother posting anymore. I’m sure everyone will remember how super dumb they are from now on.

    40. geo

      anyone thinks there’s any chance KP gets the nod as the starting 5 to start the season…

      he definitely does not look in need of a cheeseburger any more…

    41. 2FOR18, understands math

      I don’t know if it really matters. Just put KP and Willie out there for 35 mins and let the other team try to match up with us. But really, KP is 7 ft 3; he’s a center.
      I have this sneaking suspicion that Willie will be a formidable mid range shooter this season with the occasional 3, and so will be a fine 4 on offense.

      We’re actually one (he who shall not be named) trade from being a hell of a fun team to watch.

    42. geo

      if he’s still here AM (after melo) hopefully courtney can play some 3…not too excited to watch measly play…hopefully kuz comes in to the season with his groove on…

      yeah, i just don’t see how there can be anymore excuses for KP not stepping in to his natural position…hopefully his gas tank will be a little better this year…

      i’ve said it a bunch already – but, my biggest hope for the beginning of the year (other than having melo gone) is that horny can commit to a regular rotation…

    43. Z-man

      I have this sneaking suspicion that Willie will be a formidable mid range shooter this season with the occasional 3, and so will be a fine 4 on offense.

      Great!! Now, what about the other 50% of the game?

    44. plenty

      Great now I feel dumb for some reason. Silver lining – At least it’s not from a [REDACTED] discussion.

    45. geo

      Great!! Now, what about the other 50% of the game?

      i’m hopeful (dangerous words) that ron will not only improve his smashing and crashing to the rim with the ball moves – but – will actually start looking to drop the ball off to our bigs around the basket…

    46. 2FOR18, understands math

      Frank, scrappy doo, Lee and KP can provide some defense, and since rebounding is part of defense, Willie won’t be a total loss.

    47. Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada

      Willy wasn’t a bad defender by any metric last year. He’s not a plus but his defensive woes are very overstated

    48. The Glass Half Rebuilt

      The Knicks will not be a bottom 5 team. We are essentially last year’s Hawks but worse defensively.

    49. Bruno Almeida

      @58

      The Hawks were the league’s 4th best defense last year, the Knicks were the 25th. The Hawks were terrible on offense (worse than the Knicks by a decent margin).

      I don’t think the teams are similar at all, unless you think THJ being on both teams makes them the same. The Knicks are absolutely nowhere near the defensive level the Hawks had last year and that makes a huge difference.

    50. The Glass Half Rebuilt

      I’m comparing the frontcourts of the two teams. I believe, however crazy it might seem, that KP and Willy will perform to a similar level as 2017’s Millsap and Howard. The Hawks were built around their size and defense, but offensively they struggled. Our Knicks are a good bet to be better than those Hawks were offensively, but defensively it’s likely we’ll be middle of the pack. I think KP, Willy, TH2, Lee, Beasley, Ntilikina, Sessions, O’Quinn and the rest of the Knicks will produce similarly to last year’s Hawks.

    51. Cock Jowles, #1 Usage Soaker

      Yeah, we get it. Everyone’s dumb. You don’t need to bother posting anymore. I’m sure everyone will remember how super dumb they are from now on.

      Dang dude what’d I do to you today

      I don’t make Carmelo bad

      I just remind you he is

    52. Donnie Walsh

      I like the impromptu Wilt history lesson, courtesy of Z-Man. As a child of the Ford administration, I missed that era and I find it very hard to adjust my mind to how the game was then, and how one guy could have dominated it that way. I guess it’s the same as Babe Ruth playing a different statistical game than every other baseball player in the 1920s. I’ve always kind of written Wilt off as an exception to the rule of greatness because it’s so hard to really compare anybody to him.

      (As for two sport dominators, I don’t know anything about football, but Bo Jackson didn’t come close to dominating baseball. He’d do the occasional highlight that would make your mouth drop open, but I remember him striking out a ton and never having a strong impact on any team he played for. Kind of like the JR Rider or Ricky Davis of baseball).

    53. Bruno Almeida

      @60

      I think you really underrate how good the Hawks were defensively last year. Howard was excellent when he was healthy and I think KP and Willy will need to take quite a few leaps to come close to the impact of those two in terms of wins. I also think people are severely overstating the positive impact that will happen from moving from Rose / Jennings to Sessions / Baker / Ntilikina.

      The Hawks won 12 more games than the Knicks last year, but y’all keep predicting this team will outperform last year’s team, who had average luck and performed pretty much according to every reasonable projection. With the changes the Knicks made I really cannot see where the 12+ wins come from and if literally anything bad happens it won’t come for sure.

    54. danvt

      Dang dude what’d I do to you today

      I don’t make Carmelo bad

      I just remind you he is

      Sorry Jowlesy. I’m actually a fan of yours. You know the game and have been right quite often. Like, your comment today about GSW was really interesting. Sometimes though, as you know, as your moniker advertises, you choose to simply make insulting and flippant comments which take about 15 seconds to write. I more or less agree with you on Carmelo. I agree that reiterating old threads ad infinitum can be tiresome. Yet I still read these threads with interest. Especially since Carmelo Anthony is presently the seminal issue facing the team. So this is a plea, probably in vain, for you to elevate the level of discourse on this blog, if you feel it is lacking. Thanks.

    55. Bruno Almeida

      Ntilikina said some interesting things here:

      http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/knicks/ntilikina-tells-news-knick-starting-pg-article-1.3403751?utm_content=bufferef3b5&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=NYDNSports+Twitter

      I love his mentality so far and how he recognized what he needs to work on. It truly seems hes a humble kid who realizes the challenge he’s up against and how to approach it. Of course most players say the right things but it really does seem he’s mature beyond his years.

    56. plenty

      He wasn’t raised in the AAU, hyper competitive but fundamentally handicapped, United States basketball LYFE. That and he’s been playing against guys who have been playing basketball longer, that always helps when you’re getting schooled by guys not necessarily as athletically gifted. Keeps you hungry.

    57. Z-man

      One thing I neglected to say about Wilt was how highly intelligent he was both on the court and off. He was crazy egotistical, and his ego would make him do some dumb/selfish things, but most of his peers described him as a very intelligent player and person.

    58. Z-man

      Willy wasn’t a bad defender by any metric last year. He’s not a plus but his defensive woes are very overstated

      My comment wasn’t meant to imply that he was a bad defender, only that he would have trouble defending as a PF, as @51 suggested. He’s strictly a 5 on D at this point in today’s game.

    59. Brian Cronin

      Phil had another strange quote from his interview with Vecsey.

      “Winning is a priority in NY and I couldn’t get those guys into at least a 500% season so we could get some free space to rebuild.”

      So he was making a bunch of win-now moves in order to get us to .500, so that he could then tear it down and rebuild? Huh?

      His whole time here, it was clear that, for whatever reason, his strategy was to first get the team to roughly .500 and then he was confident that the best players would want to join the Knicks to take them to the next step.

    60. danvt

      His whole time here, it was clear that, for whatever reason, his strategy was to first get the team to roughly .500 and then he was confident that the best players would want to join the Knicks to take them to the next step.

      I wonder if he thought, “Now we have Sam Dalembert. Mission accomplished!”

    61. TheOakmanCometh

      That would be misguided, but at least it would make sense. Making shortsighted bids to get to .500, only to then start over and rebuild, is nonsensical.

      Let’s say last year’s team won 41 games. What was he planning to do with Noah, Melo, and Lee during the alleged ensuing rebuild?

    62. TheOakmanCometh

      And what made him think .500 was some magical milestone anyway? Who gives a damn if we go .500? The whole thing is so bizarre.

      I can’t tell if he’s lying to cover his ass or whether that was his actual strategy.

    63. Bruno Almeida

      yeah, if that was Phil’s strategy, one really has to wonder how misguided he really is. Did he think the media / fans / Dolan would be fine if the Knicks went .500 with a bunch of veterans, then got rid of Melo and started a full scale rebuild with Noah + Lee etc on the team clogging space?

      It’s gotta be about him saving face and not admitting he screwed up hard on the misguided win-now attempt.

    64. Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada

      @68

      Fair enough, I agree, though it’s not like KP acquitted himself well chasing around stretch 4s either. The better rim protection you get from KP at the 5 might outweigh the liability of Willy at the 4, since it’s not like either of them can chase down stretch 4s effectively, KP is better defending the pnr, and Willy is likely a better defensive matchup than KP against the bigger non stretchy PFs like Z Bo

    65. Brian Cronin

      I wonder if he thought, “Now we have Sam Dalembert. Mission accomplished!”

      I think he thought that Calderon would be more of an improvement on Felton than Dalembart was a drop on Chandler. Phil was not a big Chandler believer. So I think he believed that that first Knick team would win around 39 games. Then, with all of the cap room available, he would add two good free agents who would each take a little bit less to make the Knicks then even better (and since he really wanted two guys, that’s why he was SO adamant about finding as much cap space as possible that first year, even if it meant getting less for Shump because it opened up JR’s cap space). I’m not saying he was RIGHT to think that, but it was the plan.

    66. Brian Cronin

      That would be misguided, but at least it would make sense. Making shortsighted bids to get to .500, only to then start over and rebuild, is nonsensical.

      Let’s say last year’s team won 41 games. What was he planning to do with Noah, Melo, and Lee during the alleged ensuing rebuild?

      The rebuild only came about because that team didn’t do well. If it won 41 games, Melo stays and he tries to get a big free agent guard to take Rose’s cap space. That’s why he let Galloway go, because he wanted to make sure he had cap space to get a max point guard. That was the plan last year. Get to roughly 41 wins and then bring in a star point guard (that was when he thought Westbrook was going to be a free agent this past summer, by the way. All of his deals were before Westbrook took the extension).

    67. Brian Cronin

      And what made him think .500 was some magical milestone anyway? Who gives a damn if we go .500? The whole thing is so bizarre.

      I can’t tell if he’s lying to cover his ass or whether that was his actual strategy.

      .500 was as high as he could aim with these rosters. I think he believed that a .500 Knicks team with a lot of cap room would be an attractive destination.

    68. Brian Cronin

      yeah, if that was Phil’s strategy, one really has to wonder how misguided he really is. Did he think the media / fans / Dolan would be fine if the Knicks went .500 with a bunch of veterans, then got rid of Melo and started a full scale rebuild with Noah + Lee etc on the team clogging space?

      But again, had they went .500, he wouldn’t have tried to get rid of Melo. So it would have been about bringing in a replacement for Rose to add to Melo/KP/Noah/Lee/Willy.

    69. Brian Cronin

      I’m not saying that I agreed with these strategies, by the way. I wanted a rebuild from Day 1. But just noting that I don’t think Jackson is being misleading now when he said that that was his plan back in the day.

    70. Nick C.

      I think Jackson overestimated the lure or coming to play in NYC, “for” him, at MSG and/or with Melo. This seems to be a running theme since at least the hiring of D’Antoni

    71. stratomatic is despondent

      I don’t see Jackson’s strategy as even mildly confusing. I see it as the correct approach, albeit not executed perfectly by Jackson. The idea was to build with a combination of draft picks and young players/veterans attained through trade and free agency, to retain picks, keep cap space flexible, and slowly improve.

      That’s more or less what he did.

      His reign ended with all our picks intact, a good chunk of cap space available coming into this year, and Porzingis, Hernangomez, Ntilikina, Dotson, KOQ, Baker, and Randle as the beginnings of a young core with upside. He accomplished that without the benefit of 2 1st round picks that were traded away by prior management. If he had those 2 lottery picks, right now we would look like a killer up and coming team even before he used the cap space or did anything with Melo.

      His only major mistake was giving Noah too much money/years given his recent health issues, but it’s understandable why he wanted him. He looked like a veteran presence that could play C while KP/WH developed and he was a perfect fit for the way he wanted the team to play.

      The NTC turned out to be a mistake, but trading Melo was not a likely scenario at the time and we still don’t know how that’s going to shake out.

      The early trades were efforts to get rid of damaged goods like Felton (gun), JR Smith, & to some extent even Chandler who wanted out & who looked like he was breaking down.

      People are going to look back on Phil and remember all the triangle bullshit, dumb tweets, public comments to players etc.. but 90% of it was basketball illiterates & idiots in the media stirring the pot and using spin to create major controversy where only a little existed.

      Phil did a good job. He wasn’t great, but he positioned us perfectly given that lack of 2 picks.

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