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Sunday, August 20, 2017

Knicks Morning News (2017.08.09)

  • [NYDN] New Knicks GM Scott Perry adds three new execs to his roster
    (Tuesday, August 08, 2017 9:37:28 PM)

    New GM Scott Perry has his put his prints on the Knicks front office.

  • [NYDN] Michael Beasley, Knicks closing in on a deal
    (Tuesday, August 08, 2017 9:36:51 PM)

    Michael Beasley, the former No. 2 overall pick in the 2008 NBA draft, is reportedly working on a deal with the Knicks.

  • [NYTimes] Knicks Add Michael Beasley, a Well-Traveled Forward
    (Wednesday, August 09, 2017 1:24:10 AM)

    Beasley, the second overall pick in the 2008 N.B.A. draft, gives the Knicks depth in the frontcourt, which could lose Carmelo Anthony in a trade.

  • [NYPost] New Knicks GM was able to bring in his own guys, after all
    (Tuesday, August 08, 2017 4:28:25 PM)

    General manager Scott Perry wasn’t kidding when he said he would have freedom to reshape the front office upon his hiring by president Steve Mills. The Knicks officially announced the additions of five front-office members, including three new names — Harold Ellis, ex-Knicks guard Fred Cofield and Michael Arcieri. Arcieri, named director of basketball strategy,…

  • [NYPost] Knicks sign ‘flat-out scorer’ Michael Beasley
    (Tuesday, August 08, 2017 11:31:00 AM)

    This would not have been a signature Phil Jackson maneuver. As they fill out the final couple of slots of their 15-man roster, the Knicks announced the signing of former first-round bust Michael Beasley, a 6-foot-9 combo forward. Beasley will sign a one-year contract for the veteran’s minimum for players with nine years of service…

  • [ESPN] Knicks sign journeyman Beasley to 1-year deal
    (Tuesday, August 08, 2017 3:41:17 PM)

    Knicks sign journeyman Beasley to 1-year deal

  • [SNY Knicks] Knicks build up front office with five new hires
    (Tuesday, August 08, 2017 6:28:35 PM)

    The Knicks announced five new front office hirings on Tuesday as the team continues to take shape under new general manager Scott Perry.

  • [SNY Knicks] Knicks sign Michael Beasley
    (Tuesday, August 08, 2017 6:50:37 PM)

    Beasley was originally selected by the Heat with the 2nd overall pick in the 2008 NBA Draft.

  • [SNY Knicks] Dirk Nowitzki calls Kristaps Porzingis ‘the real deal’ at NBA Africa Game
    (Tuesday, August 08, 2017 2:10:12 PM)

    Knicks F Kristaps Porzingis and Dallas Mavericks legend F Dirk Nowitzki both exchanged positive words about each other’s game, per NBA.com’s Shaun Powell.

  • [SNY Knicks] New York Sports Today: Knicks make Ron Baker signing official
    (Tuesday, August 08, 2017 10:10:13 AM)

  • [NY Newsday] Knicks sign Michael Beasley, a former No. 2 overall pick
    (Tuesday, August 08, 2017 11:28:21 PM)

    Carmelo Anthony’s saga with the Knicks continues, but the needle moved a bit Tuesday when the team announced it had signed a one-year deal with free-agent forward Michael Beasley.

  • [NY Newsday] Knicks add Craig Robinson, four others to staff
    (Tuesday, August 08, 2017 6:27:51 PM)

    The Knicks continued to reshape their front office under new general manager Scott Perry by announcing several new additions to the staff.

  • 94 comments on “Knicks Morning News (2017.08.09)

    1. lavor postell

      Kind of amazing that anybody can work themselves up into a furor over signing Michael Beasley to the vet. min. He’s a combo forward that scores efficiently, an okay defensive rebounder and does little else. Seems fine, especially if the goal is still to move Melo.

      I also find it interesting that this move was made the day after hiring Craig Robinson from the Bucks. I’m assuming that’s not some coincidence and that he had some input.

    2. Z-man

      So here’s how things stand:

      Likely starters:
      Sessions
      Hardaway
      Lance
      Melo
      KP

      likely rotation bench:
      Baker
      Lee
      Kuz
      O’Quinn
      Willy
      Beasley

      Unknown:
      Noah
      Frank
      Dotson
      OJ?
      Randle?
      Kornet?

      Looks like Frank and Dotson will have to compete with Baker and Kuz for minutes.
      OJ might be stashed
      Randle and Kornet wind up in D-League

      The priority would seem to be getting out from under Lee’s and Melo’s contracts, as that would free up time for young’uns to play.

    3. The Glass Half Rebuilt

      The Knickz could trade an unprotected 2019 pick for Anthony Davis and some people would bitch about it here. Beasley was at worst an okay signing. If you get 1200 minutes of the Mike Beasley from the last two seasons you’ve beat the contract value 4 or 5 times over.

    4. The Glass Half Rebuilt

      Z-man there is no way in hell this team should be dumb enough to start Lance Thomas over Willy Hernangomez. I get that people think KP should be a center long-term, but 36 minutes of Willy Hernangomez is more valuable than 72 combined minutes from KP and Lance unless KP has a superstar breakout season. Willy Hernangomez is a starter on this team and should be our starting center for 8-10 years.

    5. Z-man

      I agree that Willy should start, but it’s likely that if Melo is still here, he’s gonna play mostly PF. I guess they will figure it out in preseason, but Melo no longer has the athleticism to be a SF. If Melo is traded, then someone will replace him in the starting lineup at the SF position.

    6. Totes McGoats

      OJ might be stashed

      I think he will be stashed, no doubt about it. It was as close to wasted pick as you can get with Randle on the roster. But, it was the 2nd to the last pick I believe, and he does have some tools- so he makes for a great stash candidate considering he was already playing overseas. I would’ve preferred Cam Oliver at that spot, but if OJ develops while stashed he’ll be a nice addition.

    7. DS

      Likely starters:
      Sessions
      Hardaway
      Lance
      Melo
      KP

      If that’s the case, I want us to shoot more threes than Houston.

    8. DS

      The Knickz could trade an unprotected 2019 pick for Anthony Davis and some people would bitch about it here.

      Be fair. People here would only bitch if the Knicks traded Hernangomez for Anthony Davis.

    9. Bruno Almeida

      Getting Michael Beasley and trading for Anthony Davis is so incredibly different that I can’t see the point. Nobody is bitching about Sessions for example because what? It was a reasonable signing for a reasonable price.

      Can you really blame people who don’t see the point in signing Michael Beasley? Most people I saw thought it was inconsequential or at most unnecessary, and that’s it.

      Bottom line, good signings wouldn’t get criticized.

    10. Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada

      Starting 5 will be Frank Hardaway Melo (if not traded or benched) KP Willy

      If Melo is traded Lance will start and that makes me sad

    11. er

      I highly doubt melo will be in the roster opening game… there seems too much mutual interest.

      Eh idk…..management may just say fuck it. Not worth it to get shit assets for him. Either he and the team sucks and we lose and get a good pick, or maybe they catch a lightning in a bottle year and make noise in the playoffs.. I think he opts out next year either way.

    12. mase

      I did not think Management will have a choice… either take a Shit interact and an asset or have a shit show.

      Those who think not starting him is an option are crazy… he has the respect of Players around the league and still warrants a starting spot.

    13. Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada

      @14

      I only support benching him if he doesn’t show up to training camp in order to force our hand

    14. kevin5318

      Getting Beasley makes even less sense if Melo is staying. There will be plenty of minutes at the 3 to go around with Beasley, Lance, Kuz and the small ball lineups.

    15. Frank

      Not sure the fuss about the Beasley signing. Assuming Melo gets traded, our 2 highest usage guys from last year will be gone. Someone has to take shots, especially on the bench units where last year, even with Melo and Rose on the roster, it was a total struggle to score any points.

      It does sort of make the point that the FO/Hornacek doesn’t think KP is ready to have a usage in the high 20s, and so they got Beasley and Hardaway to help take some of the offensive pressure off him.

    16. Z-man

      Maybe Melo shows up at training camp, learns that Ron, KP and Willy are locks for the all-star team this year and decides that he has a chance to compete for a title right here…

    17. Z-man

      I can think of no reason whatsoever to criticize the Beasley or Sessions signings. Especially not with the expanded rosters. There is zero opportunity cost to either signing. But whatever.

    18. Bruno Almeida

      I agree with the Sessions one, but I can see the criticism on Beasley. As of now he doesn’t fit a position of need and he has moved teams pretty much every single year plus is 28. Not exactly a commitment to stellar attitude and youth.

      However, I’m completely fine with the signing. I think he’s low key decent and won’t change much either way. It does make more sense in case of a Melo trade but it’s a wasted roster spot in a spot that’s generally wasted anyway, so not much to be angry about.

    19. Z-man

      @21 I hear you, but it seems that they (fans, players, coaches) actually liked him in his most recent stop with Milwaukee. No complaints at all about attitude that I could dig up.

    20. bobneptune

      I’ve been mostly listening the past few weeks:

      Where does this fantasy that ME7O is somehow opting out of 28M in a year with everything we know about his money grubbing ways. There is no way he will make anywhere near that if he opts out. Why do you think he won’t go to Cleveland …. he knows LeBron will likely opt out and he doesn’t want to be faced with the choice of either being without Lebron and Irving in Cleveland making the max and opting out and walking away from >15M net, No way he opts out with the Knicks.

      Frank was a player Phil and Gaines zeroed in on early and stayed on him when they knew there were other interesting options, so they must really think highly of him and that makes me very comfortable he is going to be better than many think here after watching him play 30 minutes on Youtube. Don’t be surprised if Frank is a Pippen type defender with range.

      Dotson has a skill that is difficult to find on a player with a legit NBA body and he is a ++ rebounder. I suspect he and Frank are going to get more minutes than any of you suspect, especially if Melo is moved.

    21. Z-man

      Ian Begley
      ESPN Staff Writer

      Dwyane Wade talks to SNY’s Taylor Rooks about Knicks SG Tim Hardaway Jr. Wade worked out with Hardaway Jr. recently in Los Angeles: “The one thing I’ve seen in TJ is he’s working. He works tirelessly on his body and game. He’s gotten so much better since he was first in NY. Same name but different player.”

    22. Z-man

      Don’t be surprised if Frank is a Pippen type defender with range.

      Sure, I won’t be surprised if Frank becomes one of the best 3 or 4 defensive players of all time. Right.

    23. bobneptune

      Sure, I won’t be surprised if Frank becomes one of the best 3 or 4 defensive players of all time. Right.

      Is this an ESL class? Does the word “type” register? As in, you know “elite” defender but maybe not the best defensive player of all time?

      I know it is KB chic to be cuz Knicks, Knicksy, Phil sucks, etc but can I please get the Prozac concession on this board?

    24. er

      Getting Beasley makes even less sense if Melo is staying. There will be plenty of minutes at the 3 to go around with Beasley, Lance, Kuz and the small ball lineups.

      nah I think Beasley is better than Kuz and Lance. He should take their mins easily if hes just “decent”

    25. Z-man

      Sure, I won’t be surprised if Frank becomes one of the best 3 or 4 defensive players of all time. Right.

      Is this an ESL class? Does the word “type” register? As in, you know “elite” defender but maybe not the best defensive player of all time?

      I know it is KB chic to be cuz Knicks, Knicksy, Phil sucks, etc but can I please get the Prozac concession on this board?

      Well that’s a refreshing change, normally I get accused of being a fanbois apologist! But seriously, let’s keep it real, there’s lots of good defensive players to compare him to w/o invoking all-time greats.

    26. er

      Where does this fantasy that ME7O is somehow opting out of 28M in a year with everything we know about his money grubbing ways. There is no way he will make anywhere near that if he opts out.

      Eh…if he gets a longer term deal say 3 for 60 or 4 for 75, I think he will be ok. I am sure he will have the market gauged. I wouldn’t be surprised if he could get 20 per year.

    27. rama in the JING

      Pippen was hella scrappy.

      The Beasley signing makes sense if we’re trading Melo. So I like it for that reason.

    28. er

      Eh…if he gets a longer term deal say 3 for 60 or 4 for 75, I think he will be ok. I am sure he will have the market gauged. I wouldn’t be surprised if he could get 20 per year.

      To follow up on that, here are some of the guys who make ~ 20 mil a year next year.

      25. Victor Oladipo $21,000,000
      26. Paul George $20,421,546
      27. Ryan Anderson $20,099,189
      28. Kyrie Irving $20,099,188
      29. Kawhi Leonard $19,841,627
      30. Jimmy Butler $19,332,500
      31. Allen Crabbe $19,245,370
      32. Tyler Johnson $ 18,988,725
      33. Klay Thompson $18,622,514
      34. Enes Kanter $18,622,513
      35. Wesley Matthews $18,530,000
      36. Joakim Noah $18,109,175
      37. Goran Dragic $18,089,888

      I think Melo fits comfortably here.

    29. Bruno Almeida

      Melo does fit, but what franchise would give it him? The worst contracts of this list were given out by desperate teams or teams who severely missed on talent evaluation on those players or are the Knicks. If Melo wants to play for even a fringe contender there’s no real opportunity for him to get so much money. I think its either the money or the chance at contention for him, and we’ll see where his priorities are.

      At this point I think his camp and other media outlets will continue to play the “Melo still wants to be traded and might not show up for camp” to pressure Perry into caving, and we’ll see… if Perry refuses to cave he’ll probably show up to the Knicks and continue on, and the trade circus will roll once again near the deadline.

    30. bobneptune

      Eh…if he gets a longer term deal say 3 for 60 or 4 for 75, I think he will be ok. I am sure he will have the market gauged. I wouldn’t be surprised if he could get 20 per year.

      Melo has fallen off a cliff the last 3 seasons and he is going to get 3 for 60 or 4 for 75 for his 34, 35, 36 and 37th year?

      I was looking for comps and P Gasol has similar ws/48 with the Lakers to Melo’s last 2 seasons. Gasol was 33 and signed with Chicago for 2 years 7.3 M per year.

      Gasol just signed 3 for 48 at age 36…. but his ws/48 was a gaudy.190

    31. bobneptune

      To follow up on that, here are some of the guys who make ~ 20 mil a year next year.

      25. Victor Oladipo $21,000,000
      26. Paul George $20,421,546
      27. Ryan Anderson $20,099,189
      28. Kyrie Irving $20,099,188
      29. Kawhi Leonard $19,841,627
      30. Jimmy Butler $19,332,500
      31. Allen Crabbe $19,245,370
      32. Tyler Johnson $ 18,988,725
      33. Klay Thompson $18,622,514
      34. Enes Kanter $18,622,513
      35. Wesley Matthews $18,530,000
      36. Joakim Noah $18,109,175
      37. Goran Dragic $18,089,888

      I think Melo fits comfortably here.

      How many of them were 34 when they signed those contracts?

    32. geo

      it’s not so much that we signed michael beasley – it’s that we signed – michael beasley…

      my very first thought was – after the knicks – michael beasley will most likely never play in the nba again…just seems like that has been a recurring theme for the knicks and players no longer considered nba level talent…

      i thought/hoped we had moved past that point…

      worse yet – beasley had me thinking about melo staying on the team for the season…i’m about 80% sure melo is on the team at the start of training camp…60% sure melo is still with the knicks after the all star break/trading deadline…and, about 99% sure that when the upcoming season ends – melo will still be a knick…

      and, it’s all beasley’s fault…

    33. er

      Melo has fallen off a cliff the last 3 seasons and he is going to get 3 for 60 or 4 for 75 for his 34, 35, 36 and 37th year?

      I was looking for comps and P Gasol has similar ws/48 with the Lakers to Melo’s last 2 seasons. Gasol was 33 and signed with Chicago for 2 years 7.3 M per year.

      Gasol just signed 3 for 48 at age 36…. but his ws/48 was a gaudy.190

      You make good points here. Heres what ill say, I think Melo will ball out for the fact that this is a defacto contract year. So if he looks spry and gets near his career avgs he will def get that. Pau looked way more finished than Melo does now. I think this season will decide a lot, if he is awful I guess he will just opt in.

    34. er

      How many of them were 34 when they signed those contracts?

      Melo at 34 is better than a good number of these ppl

    35. Ntilakilla

      Melo at 34 is better than a good number of these ppl

      Not according to WS/48 he ain’t.

    36. stratomatic is despondent

      The problem with Beasley has nothing to do with need or size/length of contract.

      It’s a good deal.

      It’s that it makes no sense to sign a guy that has a 0% chance of being part of the long term core or a valuable trade asset. We are rebuilding and would have been better off taking a shot with some prospect or player from overseas that could actually stick and become a long term rotation player. Phil was able to come up with a few players like that every year.

    37. thenoblefacehumper

      If Beasley shoots 42% from 3 again, he could pretty easily be a trade asset. Who did Phil come up with? Kuz? That guy is around Beasley’s age and worse at basketball.

    38. Cock Jowles, Not a Knicks Fan Because Fuck This Team

      re: Ron Baker NTC

      Being a Knicks fan is like staring at herpes on your lip and being like, “Okay, this is the last one,” and then being surprised when another one emerges.

    39. Bruno Almeida

      @35

      Who, then?

      All the contenders either wouldn’t want Melo or have no cap space to offer him anywhere near that (GSW, Cavs, Rockets, Celtics, Spurs, even Thunder / Wizards / Raptors). If he wants to have a chance at a title, even a super small chance, it’s one of those teams or nothing. Is he signing a 3 year 60 mil contract with who, the Hornets, the Suns? that’s exactly why I said it’s either about contending or about money.

      Players get terrible contracts all the time so it’s obvious that Melo could get 3 million 60 or even more for his next contract. But I have a really hard time believing a perceived superstar would really finish his career money grabbing instead of chasing a ring, it seems so stupid.

    40. stratomatic is despondent

      Who did Phil come up with?

      Baker, Randle, and Plumlee were all undrafted. Each is still in the running for a roster spot and has upside (Baker already has his contract). That doesn’t count players like Kuz. There were a couple of players in summer league we might have used that roster spot on later after seeing more in G league. There are young guys like this in gyms all over the US, overseas, and in the G league that would have have a chance of sticking in NY long term that don’t come with any baggage like Beasley even if he is ahead of them now.

      Beasley’s next stop after the Knicks is China. Of course given present management, they may be dumb enough to resign him because, well, POINTS.

    41. er

      @35

      Who, then?

      All the contenders either wouldn’t want Melo or have no cap space to offer him anywhere near that (GSW, Cavs, Rockets, Celtics, Spurs, even Thunder / Wizards / Raptors). If he wants to have a chance at a title, even a super small chance, it’s one of those teams or nothing. Is he signing a 3 year 60 mil contract with who, the Hornets, the Suns? that’s exactly why I said it’s either about contending or about money.

      Players get terrible contracts all the time so it’s obvious that Melo could get 3 million 60 or even more for his next contract. But I have a really hard time believing a perceived superstar would really finish his career money grabbing instead of chasing a ring, it seems so stupid.

    42. er

      Hey I don’t know…..I was just answering the question about Melo opting out and being a money grubber…..all the other shit is up in the air. I do think it is very possible that he will.

    43. Bruno Almeida

      It’s still up, yeah, but to me there’s no way he opts out. There’s no way he’ll opt out of so much money to sign for 60-70 with a Hornets type team when he can stay pressuring NY for a trade, either now or after opting in.

    44. Z-man

      re: Ron Baker NTC

      Being a Knicks fan is like staring at herpes on your lip and being like, “Okay, this is the last one,” and then being surprised when another one emerges.

      More like staring at your minuscule privates after consuming yet another online enhancement scam.

    45. Cock Jowles, Not a Knicks Fan Because Fuck This Team

      More like staring at your minuscule privates after consuming yet another online enhancement scam.

      Everyone knows it won’t grow if you stare at it. Maybe we should all ignore the Knicks for ten years so they can get their act together without our constant criticism.

    46. Early Bird

      More like staring at your minuscule privates after consuming yet another online enhancement scam.

      Nah, it’s like you finally got with that girl you wanted, only lasted 30 seconds. Then you find out she’s a devout Catholic and she just got pregnant.

    47. geo

      The problem with Beasley has nothing to do with need or size/length of contract.

      It’s a good deal.

      It’s that it makes no sense to sign a guy that has a 0% chance of being part of the long term core or a valuable trade asset. We are rebuilding and would have been better off taking a shot with some prospect or player from overseas that could actually stick and become a long term rotation player. Phil was able to come up with a few players like that every year.

      Beasley’s next stop after the Knicks is China. Of course given present management, they may be dumb enough to resign him because, well, POINTS.

      what strat says…
      thanks for getting this out in a much more coherent manner than what i was capable of…

    48. Kevin Udwary

      By now the Knicks have a pretty good idea of what they can get for Melo, and it involves taking back bad contracts if they want anything else of value. I think it’s highly likely that if Melo was willing to waive his player option for next year, the Knicks would buy him out this season. Since that hasn’t even been insinuated to be an option, I believe there is no way in hell Melo will opt out of almost $30mil next year.

    49. Totes McGoats

      I’m actually OK with the Beasley addition. To me it signals that a Melo trade is close…hopefully. He won’t and shouldn’t start, but the hope is he’ll be main scorer on the second unit with spot starts. Our bench looks punchless on offense. Beasley has proven he can score in this league and that second unit is gonna need scoring- especially if Willy starts. I would rather have Nigel Hayes in that spot because I’m intrigued by his all around game and defensive potential. Hopefully the FO can make a Melo trade and a Lee/KOQ trade that will free up a spot for him. I wonder if Charlotte would consider a MKG for KOQ and Lee deal. I think that’s a solid trade for both sides.

    50. er

      By now the Knicks have a pretty good idea of what they can get for Melo, and it involves taking back bad contracts if they want anything else of value. I think it’s highly likely that if Melo was willing to waive his player option for next year, the Knicks would buy him out this season. Since that hasn’t even been insinuated to be an option, I believe there is no way in hell Melo will opt out of almost $30mil next year.

      Nicely put.

    51. Z-man

      I don’t believe he can opt out at this time, i.e. if we buy him out, his second year must count vs. the cap.

    52. Kevin Udwary

      I don’t believe he can opt out at this time, i.e. if we buy him out, his second year must count vs. the cap.

      They can void it if both sides agree:

      60. In what other ways can an existing contract be modified?

      Other than extensions (see question number 58) and renegotiations (see question number 59), a team and player can mutually modify an existing contract as follows:

      …To eliminate an option or ETO (see question number 57). Note that eliminating an option does NOT constitute illegally shortening a contract, since an option year isn’t considered part of the original term of a contract until it is invoked…

      link

    53. Frank

      By now the Knicks have a pretty good idea of what they can get for Melo, and it involves taking back bad contracts if they want anything else of value. I think it’s highly likely that if Melo was willing to waive his player option for next year, the Knicks would buy him out this season. Since that hasn’t even been insinuated to be an option, I believe there is no way in hell Melo will opt out of almost $30mil next year.

      Yeah i think it’s far more likely he does what DWade just did even after the Butler trade — opt in and then attempt to force a trade or buyout.

    54. Z-man

      The remainder of the contract includes any seasons following an Early Termination Option (ETO), but not a season following a player or team option. However, as mentioned in question number 57, all contracts with player options contain a clause indicating whether the player receives his salary for the option year in the event he is waived before the option is picked-up. This clause states that the benefit is “to the same extent” as if the option had been exercised. The league interprets this to mean that the team salary is charged to all seasons of the contract, including the unexercised option season. For example, when Derek Fisher was waived by the Houston Rockets during the 2011-12 season, his player option for the 2012-13 season was unexercised. His remaining guaranteed salary (he agreed to take less in a buyout arrangement) was charged to the Rockets’ cap in both 2011-12 and 2012-13.

      From here: http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q65

      This seems to support the contention that the player option year still counts towards the cap.

      But yeah, if not, that would be an acceptable outcome for us. I would rather not even consider doing it until after the trade deadline, just to see if Houston wavers.

    55. Kevin Udwary

      Yeah, this is confusing. Several articles on the contract call the player option an ETO, which it probably is, which means it would be counted against the cap. But if the ETO is eliminated by both parties in a buyout, it probably doesn’t count, I would think. I guess it’s not so cut and dry, though. What ever happened to our resident cap guru, Ephus?

    56. 2FOR18, understands math

      I was beating the drum for a buyout if melo agreed to waive his player option, but I believe it was Cronin who said that isn’t an option because melo can’t waive the player option until after next season. Meaning he can’t waive it until the option is there to take, which doesn’t happen until after this season ends.

    57. er

      What ever happened to our resident cap guru, Ephus?

      Damn I hope the Knicks haven’t pushed him away….he was good.

    58. Cock Jowles, Not a Knicks Fan Because Fuck This Team

      35-year-old megamegamax LeBron will save us all by being the only good player on a 7-seed Knicks team.

      FTFY

    59. TheOakmanCometh

      @45

      Beasley isn’t a trade asset. He’s been available to every team for 2 months and couldn’t get more than the minimum. No team is going to turn around in January and give up assets for him.

    60. KnickfaninNJ

      People are talking about our roster being imbalanced, but I’m not sure I see how that is. For a fifteen player roster, you are balanced if you have three players at each position. For center we have KOQ, WHG and Noah. For the two forward positions, we have KP, Kuz, Beasley, Lance and Melo. For the shooting guard we have THJ, Lee and Dotson, and for point we have Baker, Ntilikina and Sessions. That is balanced. Of course if you think Ntilikina is a two guard then you are short a point guard, but I think the Knicks are thinking of him as a one until proven otherwise. Similarly, if you want KP at center and to play small ball you are less balanced, but I think that he’s a power forward until proven otherwise. Either way, we are short at forward, even with KP and Beasley playing there. So I don’t see Beasley’s redundancy at all.

    61. Bruno Almeida

      “All contracts with player options contain a clause that indicates whether the player receives his salary for the option year in the event his contract is terminated (i.e., he is waived and clears waivers) prior to invoking his option.”

      This is in the cbafaq by Larry Coon… there should be a clause in Melo’s contract that decides this, and Im not sure if either Melo or the Knicks could void such a clause in a contract. It doesn’t specify anything in terms of buyouts tho, just in terms of ETOs.

    62. Brian Cronin

      I think the deal is that pretty much every contract has the clause specifically say “yes,” as why would the player NOT have that clause say yes in his contract? That’s just generally speaking, but in this specific instance, is there any way in the world that Carmelo Anthony, of all people, would say “Oh yeah, if you waive me, you don’t have to pay me for my ETO season”? Come on.

      So that’s why ETOs are generally treated as though they have to be paid when a player is waived, as the only players who can get ETOs are players signed to 5-year deals and the only players signed to 5-year deals are the players who have the leverage to get everything that they want. “Sure, we’ll give you an ETO, but if we waive you, we don’t have to pay you for it?” What player would ever take that?

      So while theoretically it could be possible to not have to pay the last year, in practice, you have to pay the last year.

    63. Kevin Udwary

      But what I posted @62 suggests that a player option or ETO can be removed from a contract if the player and team agree, right? In which case it wouldn’t count against the cap. I’m pretty sure that’s how it works.

    64. KnickfaninNJ

      I think all contracts have to be approved by the league. So while in principle, the Knicks and Melo could agree on a new contract without the extra year, the league would have to approve the new contract and I don’t think they would do that. They can say no by quoting the clause quoted from Larry Coon. It’s too big a loophole to the salary cap to allow players to renounce salary, for the league to allow such changes.

    65. chrisk06811

      A buyout is stupid. we’d be better off paying him to stay home like Arod at that point.

      But, maybe if Melo realizes we are not buying him out, he is returning to the team but will be less of the focus of the offense, he might be willing to expand his list of teams to waive the NTC for.

    66. Cock Jowles, #1 Usage Soaker

      http://forums.raptorsrepublic.com/showthread.php?16883-Who-will-be-the-top-5-points-leaders-this-coming-season

      http://www.rotoworld.com/articles/nba/57338/47/draft-breakdown-and-podcast

      http://www.dfsarmy.com/2016/02/boomers-ballers-daily-fantasy-nba-cheat-sheets-fanduel-draftkings-21016.html

      Three different references to soaking up usage. Is this a real term?

      If analogy is the core of cognition, what does the idea of shot attempts as a spilled liquid say about this understanding of basketball offense?

    67. Brian Cronin

      But what I posted @62 suggests that a player option or ETO can be removed from a contract if the player and team agree, right? In which case it wouldn’t count against the cap. I’m pretty sure that’s how it works.

      No, in section 65, while specifically discussing what part of the contract counts towards the team’s cap when a player is waived, it says, “The remainder of the contract includes any seasons following an Early Termination Option (ETO), but not a season following a player or team option.”

      But even there, it appears as though all player option contracts have the clauses that we discussed earlier that say that the players still get their money if they get waived (and thus, it would count against the cap). But teams theoretically could avoid the player option payout if the player accepted it beforehand in their contract. Just in theory. In practice, even player option years are guaranteed and thus count against the cap. I don’t believe there has ever been a case where a team got a player’s option year not counted in a waiver situation.

      Long story short, there is no deal that the Knicks can make with Melo where they get to avoid his full guaranteed salary (including the final ETO year) being on their cap.

    68. Cock Jowles, #1 Usage Soaker

      Haha haha, I “spilled liquid” myself very recently

      You left shot attempts unattempted, and just gave the ball to the other team without it hitting rim, or tossed up some terrible shot that a usage sponge could have turned into a quality look? That’s the implication.

      If you’re actually talking about your bodily fluids, check yourself.

    69. Donnie Walsh

      When the Knicks bought out Jason Kidd, he waived the 2 years and $6,000,000 that was still guaranteed to him. There was no cap hit for the Knicks for those years, if I recall. So it’s not completely unprecedented.

    70. Brian Cronin

      That was retirement, though. There are different rules if a player under contract wants to retire.

    71. er

      If you’re actually talking about your bodily fluids, check yourself.

      Nah. Twas a bottle I thought was closed but wasn’t. A funny coincidence

    72. Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada

      i blame Michael Carter Williams’ tenure on the 76ers for the “usage soaking” myth

      i cant tell you the number of people who said his poor shooting was because “someone had to take those shots on that 76ers team”

      N.B. im sure it existed in some form or fashion before but thats one i viscerally remember arguing w my then stat-illiterate bball friends

    73. 2FOR18, understands math

      That’s the melo fan argument. An efficient player like Gallinari gets to take easy shots because he’s surrounded by good players, but poor melo has no choice but to Chuck up low percentage shots.
      It was tiresome long before useage soakage became an actual term.

    74. Z-man

      No, it’s actually the argument about guys like Tyson Chandler, who have league-lowest usage and league-highest efficiency. And in his case, the argument is totally valid. The “usage soakers” on his teams will never get the credit they deserve from guys like Jowles, who will smugly assert that he was clearly the “best player” on the championship Mavs because he was more “efficient and productive” than Dirk, etc.

      The more lucid point is that every player has an efficiency comfort zone that is easily defined in shot charts/maps. For some guys it’s the corner 3, for others it’s at the rim, etc. Melo is inefficient because he think that all of his shots are “good” shots, and clearly has no concept of which of his shots actually are or aren’t. But to say that it’s as easy as passing to a guy for a better shot is naive, given the constraint of the 24-second clock and the possibility of a turnover on a pass (Melo has a very low turnover rate even given his lowish assist numbers.) At some level, a low-percentage shot is better than either a turnover or another player being forced into an even lower percentage shot. But Melo’s jab-stepping and ball-stopping wastes valuable seconds of the shot clock.

      So the usage-soaker is a dumb term, but the concept it is based on is worthy of discussion.

    75. 2FOR18, understands math

      Now you’re just being disingenuous. That is exactly the argument that melo fans use, and you know it. Ruru himself wrote 4 page screeds on the concept.

      What you said near the end there is exactly right, and something the melo fans don’t acknowledge. It’s often melos own fault that he’s taking those last second bad shots because he insists on holding the ball.

    76. Z-man

      Why does that make me disingenuous? The high-usage low efficiency argument transcends Melo and has been going on here for years. Ruru said lots of dumb things in mindlessly defending Melo. That doesn’t mean that this particular argument is not nuanced.

    77. lavor postell

      Every team in the league has high usage players that “soak up” usage. The best teams are the ones that employ high usage, high efficiency scorers as their top scoring options. As you go down the list of teams from best to worst you’ll see that the high usage players become less efficient, with teams like the Knicks putting a player like Carmelo in that role, which, as Z-Man pointed out, feeds into his worst habits as he has zero concept of what a good shot is for him.

      The thing is no matter how well you run an offense, you need to have players that can create offense. Even the most well oiled offensive machine will require a player to create a shot out of nothing quite frequently on the occassions that a good catch-and-shoot look or cut to the rim for a layup or dunk isn’t created. When you are replacing a high usage player like Rose and potentially Melo you can choose to go about filling the hole by increasing the usage of players on your team (KP, Willy, THJ) and/or add a player or two that has shown the ability to create his own shot and carry a high usage scoring burden when called upon (Beasley).

      Saying somebody is a usage soaker (Waiters) doesn’t imply that the value they provide in that capacity is necessarily good for the team as far as wins and losses are concerned. Many times they certainly don’t, but they do provide the value of not thrusting too much of that scoring burden on a developing young player who may not be ready to handle that load yet.

      Some people believe that development is best served by throwing all of it at a young kid ASAP and others think incrementally increasing the load is smarter. Personally, I think it’s a case-by-case thing. KAT is and was ready to be a high 20’s usage level player off the bat. KP wasn’t and may still not be ready for that level, but he’s likely to be put in that position this season and in his 3rd year that seems appropriate.

    78. lavor postell

      And yes these “usage soakers” often end up being overpaid because the role itself can be very overvalued when you’re talking about giving money to middling or low efficiency players. THJ and Beasley, FWIW, have been relatively efficient the last couple of seasons. THJ’s sample is more promising as he’s played a lot more minutes.

    79. The Glass Half Rebuilt

      Beasley might start for us at the 3 if Melo gets traded. No matter who is at point guard, I believe Hardaway Jr, Beasley, Year 3 KP and Year 2 Willy Hernangomez is going to be a better offense than what we had last year. Defensively I’m unsure, but I’m feeling good about our chances to win 41 games.

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