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Tuesday, October 24, 2017

Knicks Morning News (2017.08.04)

  • [NYTimes] Kyrie Irving Wants to Play for the Knicks. That’s Good News and Bad.
    (Friday, August 04, 2017 1:06:10 AM)

    The Irving situation is reminiscent of what occurred in 2011, when the Knicks surrendered a package of players and draft picks to get Carmelo Anthony.

  • [NYPost] Carmelo Anthony: The Knicks know ‘what I’m looking for’
    (Thursday, August 03, 2017 9:31:56 PM)

    Carmelo Anthony, in quelling a misperception that communication between himself and the Knicks has been scarce, said he has had “great conversations’’ with the team and “they know how I feel’’ and “what I’m looking for.’’ In an interview from Baltimore, site of The Basketball Tournament (which he hosted), the embattled star said on ESPN’s…

  • [SNY Knicks] Porzingis calls New York ‘home,’ wants Anthony to stay with Knicks
    (Thursday, August 03, 2017 4:15:39 PM)

    After a turbulent offseason involving trade rumors, Kristaps Porzingis is excited to get things started this year with the Knicks.

  • [SNY Knicks] Porzingis and Nowitzki working out together before NBA Africa Game
    (Thursday, August 03, 2017 11:04:08 AM)

    Knicks forward Kristaps Porzingis and Dallas Mavericks star Dirk Nowitzki are working out with each other in preparation for the NBA Africa Game.

  • [SNY Knicks] Carmelo Anthony says he’s been on emotional rollercoaster, will reportedly only accept trade to Rockets
    (Thursday, August 03, 2017 8:30:05 AM)

    While speaking at The Basketball Tournament’s Day of Giving in Baltimore, Anthony said he hasn’t met with the Knicks during the offseason and called the removal of Phil Jackson a “business” decision.

  • [SNY Knicks] New York Sports Today: Anthony will only waive no-trade clause for Houston
    (Thursday, August 03, 2017 10:10:13 AM)

  • 53 comments on “Knicks Morning News (2017.08.04)

    1. Zanzibar

      Frank imo projects to be an average at best 1 guard but an above average wing. He posted excellent catch-and-shoot stats in the French League where I believe the arc is in same location as NBA. He might have above average ball-handling and playmaking skills for an SG but below average explosiveness and ball-handling for a 1. Frank might be able to defend multiple positions. All of those are realistic projections at this time. If he’s really excellent shooting off-the-dribble, then maybe he could play the 1 but that’s tougher to project.

      My fear is that many of our young players will be out of their natural position or not receive sufficient minutes. Frank should get most of his minutes at SG and some at the 1. Baker is obviously not a 1 guard but should get minutes at the 2. Dotson may not get any minutes because of Lee and Timmy. Our natural SGs may have to play the 3, a position for which none look to be really suited. Bottom Line: Not a healthy situation.

      I wonder if the unpredictable “win now” Thibs would go for this trade:
      NYK…………..Jones, Aldrich, Bjelica
      TWolves…….Lee, KOQ, Randle

      We’d get a young natural 1 guard. Our rotation could then change to where everyone is playing their natural positions:
      1: Jones, Sessions, Frank
      2: Timmy, Dotson, Frank
      3: Harkless, Lance (just take Leonard in Portland trade)
      4: KP, Shawn Long or Qi (get 1 in Portland trade), Lance
      5: Willy, KP, Noah

    2. Zanzibar

      The previous post illustrates why Timmy was a bad signing beyond it being a bad contract. His presence makes it difficult to distribute the minutes. The bottom line is that Frank and Dotson should be getting the bulk of the SG minutes. Look at what happens in that scenario if he’s not on the team in addition to having the additional cap:

      1: Jones (24), Sessions (16), Frank (8)
      2: Dotson (20), Frank (2o), Baker (8)
      3: Harkless (28), Lance (20)
      4: KP, Qi, Bjelica, Lance
      5: Willy, KP, Noah, Aldrich, Leonard

    3. Ntilakilla

      Dirk practicing with our Unicorn is what I’ve been waiting to see for awhile now. KP needs to pick that brain clean.

    4. Zanzibar

      I wonder if win now Cavs would take KOQ/Lance for Osman/Jefferson? KOQ could go into trade exception and then Lance for Osman/Jefferson should work. Jefferson is done at 36yo and Lance’s 3FG% > 40% plus decent D (I don’t care what stats say) might be attractive to a win now team. We shed that might be important 3rd year of Lance’s contract and receive a young SF who might have some potential. Even if we trade for Harkless, still be a nice deal as we shed salary and go younger.

    5. stratomatic is despondent

      I like Dotson. He’s probably more ready to play in the NBA than most rookies because he’s older and more physically mature. But I’m not expecting him to play a lot of minutes right away. If he’s good enough to be in the rotation at the start of the season that would be a pleasant surprise (or a negative surprise on a couple of other players).

    6. lavor postell

      Lance’s 3rd year is non-guaranteed so it’s not that important to shed him if the goal is having cap space in 2019.

    7. Zanzibar

      Lance’s 3rd year is non-guaranteed so it’s not that important to shed him if the goal is having cap space in 2019.

      You’re right. This Spotrac screen shows it as guaranteed but when you go to Lance’s individual profile on Spotrac it shows it as 1m guaranteed. I still would do the deal since we get a young player at that position; the last year not being guaranteed might make it more attractive to Cavs.

      I like Dotson. He’s probably more ready to play in the NBA than most rookies because he’s older and more physically mature. But I’m not expecting him to play a lot of minutes right away. If he’s good enough to be in the rotation at the start of the season that would be a pleasant surprise (or a negative surprise on a couple of other players).

      A team in our position should be giving a 23yo like Dotson sufficient minutes. That was the gist of my post. There’s reason to believe his skills would translate to the NBA. A rookie playing only 5-10 minutes a game would not be expected to shine; they need enough minutes to adapt to NBA. Frank and Dotson should be getting a lot of SG minutes. the odds are one of those two will make a fine SG. The Diderot effect will kick in here where Timmy’s signing forces us to make other non-optimal decisions to accommodate his presence. The only hope here is that Timmy is somehow able to play the 3.

    8. DRed

      Dotson is a fringe prospect. If he works out, that’s awesome, but we don’t need to make roster decisions based on a late second round draft pick

    9. Zanzibar

      Yeah you do when:
      – that prospect shot 44% from 3 in college and 48% from 3 on 28 attempts in summer league
      – he also appears to be a versatile shooter able to shoot: (1) hand in face (2) off-ball screens (3) off the dribble.
      – he doesn’t appear to have any glaring weaknesses.

      He won’t get minutes on this team. Frank may not get many minutes playing off the ball. The Baker contract was an obvious giveaway to CAA. The Timmy signing was just a poor choice by the front office for this team. His contract might have been fine for a team really needing an SG.

    10. TheOakmanCometh

      Dotson was a 23-year-old playing against younger guys in a Summer League that’s already virtually meaningless. He was the #59 prospect in the 2017 draft, who scouting reports labeled a “project” even though he’s 23 and spent 4 years in college. The chance that he becomes a rotation player is pretty slim. Especially this year, since his greatest strength is on catch-and-shoot 3s and we already have a very good catch-and-shoot 3-point shooter in Lee, not to mention another highly-paid SG in Hardaway.

      I hope we find minutes for him, because this team should be playing young guys as much as possible to see what we have. In fact I wish we hadn’t signed THJ so Dotson could be the backup SG. But it’s more likely that he’s a bust than any other outcome.

    11. Zanzibar

      his greatest strength is on catch-and-shoot 3s and we already have a very good catch-and-shoot 3-point shooter in Lee, not to mention another highly-paid SG in Hardaway.

      I think his greatest strength is that he’s a versatile shooter, not just spot-up. Lee has trouble shooting against a closeout and he’s also not that good shooting off screens, whether off ball or on ball.

    12. Brian Cronin

      If Dotson needs minutes send him to whatever the D league is called.

      I was listening to a JJ Redick interview where he referenced whatever it is called now and I had no idea what he was talking about. :)

    13. Jack Bauer

      Based on the limited info available it seems more likely that Frank will not be able to be an NBA caliber point guard unless he improves the needed skills by a lot – possible but not likely. I agree he appears to be more suited to shooting guard based on his size, limited explosiveness, and shooting ability. I’m expecting that will ultimately be his position , leaving the Knicks unending search for a competent point guard still in place. It is a PG driven league, they will not be above average until they address this issue (give or take 20+years and counting?).

      As for Dotson, they won’t know what they have unless he gets more than token minutes. To assume he will not be good based on where he was drafted is not smart. Draymond Green was a second rounder too. What do they have to lose by giving him some minutes? It would be foolish not to see what you have. Baker got minutes last year, Dotson is at least as good of a prospect. He may suck (helps tank) or he may be good (got lucky in draft), they need to find out.

      Agree that THJR causes a logjam and forces guys to play out of position. But hey, that’s what the Knicks do, right?

    14. TheOakmanCometh

      To assume he will not be good based on where he was drafted is not smart. Draymond Green was a second rounder too. What do they have to lose by giving him some minutes? It would be foolish not to see what you have.

      These two things are not mutually exclusive. No, he’s probably not going to be good. Yes, he should still play anyway.

    15. geo

      i’m starting to worry that if the knicks act even a little normal – traffic here at the blogger will start drying up (i depend mightily on y’all for my daily knick grief :-))

      my hope is that horny picks a lineup and barring injury sticks with it for more than a game or two…

      i don’t know where to find this particular stat – but, it felt like we had zero consistency in our lineups and rotations last year…

      i know part of the issue was with the players – but, hopefully horny can get a little better committing to a plan…

      due to a new partnership with gatorade – they’re calling it the “g” league – yes, that does sounds pretty dumb…

    16. TheOakmanCometh

      To assume he will not be good based on where he was drafted is not smart. Draymond Green was a second rounder too.

      Also, come on, you know that anecdotes are not a counterargument to probabilities. Yes, Draymond Green and Isiah Thomas and a handful of other 2nd rounders have become good players over the 50+ year history of the NBA. In that same span there have been many many more 2nd rounders who amounted to nothing.

      So yeah, assuming a guy will not be good based on his prospect ranking IS kinda smart.

    17. Ben R

      Dotson might be a NBA player but he projects even optimistically to be a 3 and d wing and nothing more. My hope is that he becomes Lee, with a bit better rebounding and a bit worse passing. This is of course not at all a sure thing and not worth making roster choices around. He was a 2nd round pick for a reason, he is 23 and played at a small college and still looked more like a role player than an alpha dog.

      If Baker and Dotson prove they deserve time at the 2 then that is a good problem to have.

      As for THJ he only creates a roster jam because of Lee, who he is better than and younger, so if we don’t move Lee we are a bit crunched but I still think moving him is the plan. THJ does not create a jam with young players that havn’t proved they belong in the NBA yet. If and when they do we can decide what to do but even if they are NBA players the likelyhood they are better than THJ is extremely slim. THJ is a good NBA player and a solid starter on a good team, and , once Melo is gone, our best wing player by a wide margin. If he becomes redundant then a lot of players developed very well and we are looking really good.

    18. DS

      Yeah you do when:
      – that prospect shot 44% from 3 in college and 48% from 3 on 28 attempts in summer league
      – he also appears to be a versatile shooter able to shoot: (1) hand in face (2) off-ball screens (3) off the dribble.
      – he doesn’t appear to have any glaring weaknesses.

      Sounds like Morris Almond

    19. Brian Cronin

      If he becomes redundant then a lot of players developed very well and we are looking really good.

      Or he regresses, of course.

    20. Ben R

      @24

      Yes, but in that case the problem with the signing won’t be the position but the fact it didn’t work out, and the young guys won’t have anything to do with it.

      The main thing in my opinion is that the THJ signing will either look good or bad, based on his play, and the development of Dotson, Baker and Frank will having nothng to do with it. Either he plays like he did in Atlanta and the signing while an overpay was smart or he regresses and it was a huge mistake.

    21. Bruno Almeida

      I disagree. For Hardaway’s contract to be smart he needs to improve. If he gives the same level of production he did in Atlanta last year, it will be a bad contract. If he regresses, it’s a terrible one. If he improves something about his game, either be more efficient shooting or play defense pretty well, than it’s a slight overpay (on the assumption that he probably could have been signed for less anyway) but it’s going to be completely fine.

    22. DRed

      Dotson seems like someone worth taking a look at because of his shooting. He did rebound well at Houston, but he was just okay when he was at Oregon. Did he rebound better because he was older, or maybe there were good bigs at Oregon who got all the boards, or did he just get better? I don’t know, but if he can rebound and shoot 3’s he’ll be a useful NBA player. You just don’t have to play him big minutes out of the gate

    23. Ben R

      @27
      I don’t know, I think if THJ plays as well as he did in Atlanta then that’s pretty good. He was by all metrics between a slightly below and slightly above average defender last year so lets say last year he was average. 19 pts 4 rebs 3 asts 2 tos with average defense and a 57% TS% seems like a good player and easily worth $14-17 million a year in the NBA.

      The problem is his good play is a somewhat small sample and there’s no predicting that he won’t regress which is what makes the contract bad. My big worry is that Carroll saw his 2pt% drop a lot when he left Atlanta so is THJ’s efficiency his or a product of Atlanta’s system? Also THJ has not shown to be a reliably average defender over his career and has very little room to regress without becoming a liability on that end.

      I am hopeful that THJ’s improvement is actual growth and his natural progression into his prime and we will see the same or maybe an even a better player than we saw in Atlanta last year but it is by no means a sure thing and that’s why the overpay was so egregious.

    24. Donnie Walsh

      Yes, Draymond Green and Isiah Thomas and a handful of other 2nd rounders have become good players over the 50+ year history of the NBA. In that same span there have been many many more 2nd rounders who amounted to nothing.

      True. But if you look at all the successful active players that were second round picks/undrafted, the majority were 4 year seniors: like the aforementioned Isaiah Thomas and Draymond Green, as well as Chandler Parsons, Kyle Korver, Matt Barnes, Danny Green, James Jones, Rasual Butler, Jeremy Lin, Wesley Matthews, and Anthony Morrow.

      And the others are mostly 3 year college players.

      So Dotson does fit the primary historical criteria for becoming a useful NBA player.

      But, of course, it’s safe to say that being a 4 year senior, alone, is not enough reason to expect him to be useful. Neither is his college shooting performance. You all may remember ex-Knick Demetris Nichols, 4 year man out of Syracuse, selected in the 2nd round and traded to NY on draft night (see, Randolph Zach; Francis, Steve; Frye, Channing). Nichols shot 40% in college, was considered one of the better pure shooters in that draft, and managed to muster all of 58 minutes in the NBA. (So, pessimists have something to hang their hat on!)

    25. JK47

      he doesn’t appear to have any glaring weaknesses.

      Dotson does seem to have one big weakness: he has no other way of scoring besides shooting jumpers. He had a paltry FT rate in college and 84.5% of his shots were jump shots. If he can knock down his shots at the NBA level he’ll still be a useful piece, but he’s really not an all-around type player.

    26. Bruno Almeida

      You know who Dotson really reminds me of? Anthony Morrow. Could shoot the lights out from 3 in college, had a 3PAr over .550 in his senior year and has become a decent albeit unimpressive shooter in the league who has carved himself a 9 year career out of it. Dotson was a better rebounder when he went to play in a worse conference, yeah, but I don’t think its so meaningful.

      @30

      I agree with you in the progression thing. I think its more likely he’s good than he’s is bad. But his peak .107 ws48 scares me, it shows a player who pretty much only contributed by mediocre / slightly above average shooting with decent usage. a .107 ws48 player who has a .560ish ts% is not worth 17 million per year unless he improves, even if he doesn’t need to improve dramatically.

    27. Zanzibar

      Morrow was lousy at everything except shooting and look how long he’s lasted in the league. If Dotson could shoot like him and be just an average defender, he’d be very valuable.

      I don’t believe every 2nd round pick merits minutes. But Dotson may be elite at a key NBA skill so that makes it worth playing him and finding out how he does at other stuff like defense. Dinwiddie didn’t play well in limited minutes for Detroit but made huge leap when given regular minutes for Nets. Reality is Timmy and Lee are gonna take all minutes. Again Timmy’s an average player at the moment; it would have been better to have kept his cap and to have given his minutes to Dotson, Frank, and baker

    28. kevin5318

      If Dotson could combine Morrow’s shooting with Jeremy Lamb’s rebounding and defense(?) then we have a very good player on our hands

    29. JK47

      If (insert player here) plays at the top of the range of how he’s projected to play, he’ll be good!

    30. Bruno Almeida

      the issue is Dotson did rebound well, but in the AAC. His numbers at Oregon are pretty close to Morrow’ s, but with worse shooting.

      I don’t know, the kid deserves a place of course, I just wouldn’t expect much more than Morrow’ s level of production out of him, specially right away.

    31. Zanzibar

      If (insert player here) plays at the top of the range of how he’s projected to play, he’ll be good!

      Is it really a stretch for Dotson to be an elite shooter, an average defender and above average rebounder given his history? From nbadraft.net: Dotson has some solid potential on defense Dotson’s got the requisite athleticism to be a decent defender.

      I do think people are making somewhat optimistic predictions for Frank at the 1. IF he is more explosive and IF he’s able to shoot off the dribble…..BUT I think it’s reasonable to envision Frank being an above average SG on defense, above average at catch-and-shoot, and above average as a secondary ball-handler.

    32. 2FOR18, understands math

      No, it’s: If player X learns to ____ and improves his _____ and shoots (never before accomplished) _____% and if we deal melo and Lee for Hartenstein and spacing and synergy and making leaps then player X will be worth his salary and all u haterz hatin on the hate will finally get it.

    33. JK47

      It’s not that big of a stretch to think that Dotson might make it. His chances are probably roughly the same as most second-round picks, which is to say low.

      Look at the guy selected right after Dotson, Dillon Brooks. Brooks shot 40% from 3PT at Oregon, in a tough conference, the Pac-12. He’s a versatile scorer. IF Brooks can hit threes in the NBA, and IF he turns out to be a good passer (nbadraft.net says he shows “flashes” as a good passer) and holds up on the defensive end (nbadraft says he shows defensive potential) then he’ll make it.

      Go one pick later, Sterling Brown out of SMU, a relatively generic second-round pick. He shot 44.9% from three as a senior. Again, he’s a guy who is said to have the “potential” to be a good NBA defender. Good rebounder for a guard, has a little bit of shot creation ability. If he can keep doing these things well in the NBA, he’ll make it too!

      You see where I’m going with this. You can keep going down the list. If (insert player here) can do the things in the NBA that he did in college, he’ll be good. You can say that about pretty much any prospect, except maybe guys who are very raw.

    34. Zanzibar

      Dillon Brooks draft report is much weaker than Dotson’s. Sterling Brown was noted as a “sleeper” but he doesn’t have the athleticism and speed of Dotson. We have the draft reports plus the benefit of having watched Dotson in Summer League. It certainly appears the more distant NBA arc doesn’t affect his shooting accuracy. Also Dotson is able to shoot against closeouts. He’s able to shoot running off screens. The draft reports said this and we witnessed all of that in the Summer League. I think those skills should translate to NBA and they’re very valuable skills.

      A lot of college shooters falter in NBA because because they’re not able to shoot against closeouts. They have to be wide open. Dotson not only shot 44% in college from 3 but he did it on a large # of attempts. That’s because he’s able to shoot over closeouts. How many times have we witnessed Novak and Lee turn into pumpkins in those situations?

    35. kevin5318

      It certainly appears the more distant NBA arc doesn’t affect his shooting accuracy. Also Dotson is able to shoot against closeouts. He’s able to shoot running off screens. The draft reports said this and we witnessed all of that in the Summer League. I think those skills should translate to NBA and they’re very valuable skills.

      That’s the main reason I’m high on him along with with his ability to fight through screens/pressure the ball. Him and Frank will be a sight to see after watching the likes of Rose, Felton and Afflalo.

    36. johnnyhoops

      Tomorrow is August 5th, when Qi can be traded for Melo. Is he the Qi to the Melo trade?

    37. the don nelson era

      I dunno, that chatter up there says the Knicks FO would have to be a real bunch of rubes to hold up a Melo trade just for a second round pick

    38. chrisk06811

      I like what you did there, Johnny Hoops! If we had a guy named Qi, and it really is pronounced “Key” (of which I have no idea so I will take your word for it)…..we would have puns galore, which would slightly ease the upcoming pain

    39. chrisk06811

      did anyone catch yesterday’s ESPN article about the Nets, their change in philosophy, etc? Made me really like Marks and Atkinson.

    40. Jack Bauer

      @21 Oakman.

      C’mon, how about we watch him play a few NBA games before assuming he will suck? All I was saying is just because he was a second rounder doesn’t guarantee he will not be a useful player, it’s happened before. I wouldn’t be surprised if he doesn’t turn out to be good, but I won’t assume that yet.

    41. KnickfaninNJ

      Qi is pronounced something in between chi or che; but I liked the pun anyway.

      The last Melo trade was held up for another center, Mozgov, so waiting for Qi would be a kind of Karma.

    42. danvt

      This thread is annoying me for two reasons.

      1. Everyone seems to agree that Frank isn’t a 1. Why? Seems to me being a 1 is about having court vision, being smart, being able to make someone pay for going under a screen, being able to finish at the rim, and being able to defend at the point of attack. Maybe he’ll need time to refine some skills but even the Knicks have to know the difference between the 1 and the 2 position. I imagine we should considering we have three other guys who play the 2 position plus a combo guard in Baker. So what hard facts do you base the “IMO’s” on?

      2. It’s like everyone looks at THJR in a vacuum. If he improves he’ll warrant his contract…Same with Dotson. If he improves he’ll make it. Will these guys improve? Yes, if Frank is really a 1 and can get them the ball in open space. If KP improves and draws double teams. If Melo isn’t a siv. Team dynamics do mean something. This isn’t baseball. You guys are just setting yourself up for disappointment if someone looks worse than when they played on a good team. It’s still worth getting veterans with some potential.

      It’s not a coincidence that individual players on the Spurs have good stats.

    43. DRed

      I agree that if we drafted Frank because we think he can be a good playmaking guard we shouldn’t play him off ball as a spot up shooter. If you have enough faith in his playmaking to take him 8th in a pretty stacked draft, then play him at the point and see what happens. He’s tall and very young, so I imagine it’s going to take some time even if it works out, but we’re not exactly contending for a title next year, and there isn’t anyone else on the roster who is a particularly good point guard. So give the kid some minutes.

    44. The Glass Half Rebuilt

      Frank is a point guard but I’m of the belief that a two point guard line up is better than a point guard and a shooting guard line up.

    45. KnickfaninNJ

      I’ve been thinking of the Knicks as having a large potential roster that they have to cut down during training camp; but when I actually counted it up, it was smaller than that. At guard, players who are clearly on the team are Baker, Sessions , Ntilikina, THJ and Lee. At forward and center there is Thomas, Melo, KP, Kuz, KOQ, WHG and Noah. That’s 12 players total. Then there are Randle, Jaramaz, Kornet and Dotson as players who will certainly be invited to camp. Of them, only Kornet is signed to any sort of contract, and it’s one of those two way contracts, where he can only play a certain number of days with the main team. I think we need a couple more possibilities in training camp. Also, if we trade Melo, we are clearly short on forwards. This may be the usual off season time for GMing, but Knicks management clearly has more work to do to get ready for the season.

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