Statistical Analysis. Humor. Knicks.

Wednesday, May 22, 2019

Knicks Morning News (2017.07.26)

  • [NYDN] Derrick Rose’s tumultuous time with Knicks a failed experiment
    (Tuesday, July 25, 2017 7:52:20 PM)

    With Derrick Rose going to Cavs to potentially replace Kyrie Irving, Phil Jackson’s mistake officially became a one-year failed experiment.

  • [ESPN] Rockets still Anthony’s top priority, making an Irving-to-Knicks trade a long shot
    (Wednesday, July 26, 2017 1:35:39 AM)

    Rockets still Anthony’s top priority, making an Irving-to-Knicks trade a long shot

  • [SNY Knicks] Daily News Live: Where will Carmelo Anthony be traded to?
    (Tuesday, July 25, 2017 5:49:33 PM)

    The DNL panel debates where they think Knicks forward Carmelo Anthony will be traded to in light of the Kyrie Irving trade request.

  • [SNY Knicks] New York Sports today: Derrick Rose signs with Cleveland
    (Tuesday, July 25, 2017 9:54:46 AM)

  • [NYTimes] John Kundla, Winning Coach of Fledgling Lakers, Dies at 101
    (Wednesday, July 26, 2017 12:55:01 AM)

    Kundla led the Minneapolis team to five titles in the N.B.A. and its immediate precursor.

  • [NYPost] If Carmelo really wants to leave Knicks, there’s a way to ensure it
    (Tuesday, July 25, 2017 2:55:10 PM)

    On the one hand, it is perfectly understandable why Carmelo Anthony feels he should be entitled to drive the agenda now. For months he sat in stony silence while his name and reputation were bloodied by his ex-boss. He was determined to win his cold war with Phil Jackson. And won it. Now, he wants…

  • [NY Newsday] Derrick Rose signed with Cavaliers to compete for a championship
    (Tuesday, July 25, 2017 6:33:06 PM)

    CLEVELAND — Derrick Rose’s goal is to win an NBA championship. He’s a little closer to one.

  • Liked it? Take a second to support Mike Kurylo on Patreon!

    159 comments on “Knicks Morning News (2017.07.26)

    1. Farfa

      I mean, I find Baker rootable, but Z-Man is reaching new levels of blind fandom defending his contract

    2. Z-man

      No, I’m not defending the contract. Look back to the time of the deals and read my comments. I said that they were both overpays, and agree that the Knicks front office did a poor job of negotiating. What I’m saying here is that he (and TH2) will play to the contract, even though they are overpaid. Same with TH2. The analogy I made was that we paid MSRP for these two cars when we didn’t have to, but in the end, they are good cars that we will enjoy driving as much as cars with higher MSRPs that we could have gotten for the same money. Does that make sense to you?

      Why does that position sound like blind fandom? In Baker’s case, he has played a mere 800 NBA minutes and shot way worse than he did in 4 years at the college level, why is it so “blind” to expect that his shooting will rebound to somewhere around his college numbers? In TH2’s case, he has dramatically improved in a short time and his statistical trajectory as a player can be interpreted to suggest continued improvement. I get that the more likely case statistically is that he will plateau, but I see reason for optimism. That doesn’t make me a blind fan.

    3. Z-man

      I’m also saying that if we HAD to overpay, I’m glad it is for rootable young players, rather than a guy like Derrick Rose. In fact, these signings might have averted signing Rose in the same way that people argued ad nauseum that matching Lin’s horrendous offer sheet would have averted the Bargnani signing. The Baker signing was at worst inconsequential.

      I’m also saying that the amount of the overpays do not get in the way of anything we are trying to accomplish 3-4 years down the road. $18 million is not what it was when we signed RoLo to a $13 mill for 4 year deal. In two years, Timmy might be a bargain at that price.

    4. Z-man

      But yeah, if the skeptics and cynics here want to continually assume the worst case scenario will happen because knickz and Dolan’s razor and shit like that, I get it. As I said, he who expects nothing good will ever happen doesn’t have to worry about being disappointed. It’s a safe position to expect the worst, you win either way.

    5. Frank

      The analogy I made was that we paid MSRP for these two cars when we didn’t have to, but in the end, they are good cars that we will enjoy driving as much as cars with higher MSRPs that we could have gotten for the same money. Does that make sense to you?

      At the end of the day the THJ contract isn’t horrible – it’s better than Crabbe’s contract because THJ is better than Crabbe. It’s an overpay but it’s semi-defensible if your basketball people really believe in the player. The Baker contract isn’t super horrible because it’s just not that much money. That said — when you constantly lose on every transaction, it adds up. The Baker contract prevented us from using our room exception on someone that could be useful. If he plays well, it could cost us even more next year to keep him. it just reveals a level of incompetence that is discouraging. That doesn’t mean I won’t root for Ron – it just means that we’re incompetent.

      That said – that was all pre-Scott Perry. Everything post-Scott Perry has been pretty reasonable even if they’re small moves around the edges.

    6. Ingmarrrr

      Everything post-Scott Perry has been pretty reasonable

      Nothing is certainly better than anything the Knicks usually do but is it going to work as a long term strategy? If we don’t sign or draft anyone eventually all our players would retire and we’ll have an empty roster! That can’t be good.

    7. MSA

      The Baker contract prevented us from using our room exception on someone that could be useful.

      Since it’s the Knicks, we can twist this sentence backwards also:

      “The Baker contract prevented us from using our room exception on some over the hill veteran without any upside”.

      I hate his contract. It’s a clear signal that Mills doesn’t have a clue how to evaluate players contract but it is largely inconsequential in our actual situation.

    8. Farfa

      Well, the thing is that there’s nothing about Baker’s contract and/or career that speaks for optimism. I don’t really know why you chose to figuratively die on that hill.

      That said the level of incompetence of the summer of ’17 is still a breath of fresh air. I can’t wait to see what happens with Melo!

    9. KJG

      my two cents… no one died on the Ron Baker hill… Z-man is a fan of the team, that’s all…

    10. 2FOR18, understands math

      I object to the classification of “pessimist”, though I will cop to being a “skeptic” wrt to the Knicks’ decision making.

      It’s logical, objective realism that leads people to form evaluations based on a player’s history, the history of players with a similar history, and the track record of the people making the financial and personnel decisions on the Knicks for the past 17 years.

      It’s not being a pessimist to note that a shitty/old/broken down/one dimensional/fill-in-the-blank player getting paid too much in a salary cap system is a bad idea, and it’s perfectly fine to note that happens on a consistent basis and produces poor results every time.

      It’s not being a pessimist to note that some people overvalue players because they happen to be on our team. That post by Z Man about the Knicks having 7 or 8 undervalued players still has me laughing. Every team has an O’Quinn or a Kuz or a Baker or a Lee or a Hardaway or a Jaramaz or a Ndour. KP, Willy and Frank are our only values right now.

      It’s not being a pessimist to rip on bad, financially unsound moves; no matter how small they may be seem, in aggregate they tie our hands and set a self perpetuating culture of shittiness to mediocrity.

      It’s not being a pessimist to rip on commenters that say things like, “Man, if Player X can just get a better handle, rebound better and shoot 40% from 3 he’ll easily be worth his contract”.

      I guarantee you that if the Knicks actually win a deal and make a sensible deal, all of the so called “pessimists” will cheer the move. Just look at all of the positivity thrown Willy’s and KP’s way, and how nuts we went over Linsanity and Tyson and half a season of rejuvenated Kidd.

      This is NY, not blind loyalty Podunk USA.

    11. Owen

      I am loving the fact that Ron Baker is making twice as much as Derrick Rose. For those with a taste for the mildly absurd that is quite delicious.

      I just wanted Melo traded already so we can all move on with our lives….

    12. Totes McGoats

      This may feel like it’s coming out of left field, but I think this scenario is very possible:

      Knicks trade Willy, Ntilikina, and a contract like Lee plus our unprotected ’18 pick for Kyrie and Melo stays. That’s alot to give up. I don’t think it’s likely, but it’s definitely possible. I feel like Melo to Houston is taking way too long because we’ve all talked about it and heard about it consistently for the past month. It’s smart to wait on a better offer now that there’s some semblance of order in our FO, but I’m tired of hearing and talking about trading Melo. That NTC and kicker is stalling the rebuild because as long as Melo’s shadow looms large, the team will be in win now mode. That sucks because we have enough young players(KP/Willy/Ntilikina/TH2/Baker/Randle/Dotson/Kornet/Hayes) and team 1st vets(Lee/Noah/Thomas/KOQ) to actually build a fresh culture upon. Our coach is also young enough in tenure to grow with the youth on the roster while employing a offensive system that fits the youth we want to develop.

      The team is, IMO, in a catch 22 because a core of Kyrie/Melo/KP would give the top teams in the EC problems. But- at the same time you wanna see the kids develop and win because there’s an intriguing blend of ability there to go with their team 1st attitudes

    13. Bruno Almeida

      Yeah, it does seem we’re at the proverbial calm before the storm…

      The Baker shot well in college argument tho, that one I can’t believe.

      He had .568 and .557 ts% in his junior and senior years playing in the godawful MVC. Only about 1.2% of NCAA basketball players make it to the NBA, and I’m pretty sure the percentage is bound to be even lower for MVC players.

      These percentages are grossly inflated by playing against terrible teams. In his senior year, at the NCAA tournament, he shot .273 against Vanderbilt (a win), .462 against Arizona (win) and .333 against Miami (a loss).

      Against Indiana, Kansas and Notre Dame in 2015, .231, .500 and .200 fg%.

      There’s zero reason to assume he’ll be even a .560 ts% guy against NBA competition unless he makes incredible progression. Again, as I said, I’m fine with bring optimistic, it’s just that I would rather be optimistic about something that seems a bit more possible (KP making a leap or Willy becoming even better for example).

    14. MSA

      Ok, I’m not a Baker apologist and he’s been fucking terrible so far, but here we go:

      According to brewhoop, a “winshare” last season cost 2.69 million (estimated before the season):

      https://www.brewhoop.com/2016/8/8/12354486/value-in-the-nba-whats-the-value-of-a-win

      So, with a 4.5 million salary, it should be expected 1.67 WS for Baker.

      Divide that for 1.500 minutes and his WS48 should be .054 to worth the contract.

      Is that so hard to imagine a 24 yo player improving to .054 in his second or third season? That’s Derrick Rose type production.

      He’s about average at everything a guard should be doing except for shooting, which was his best skill in college. http://www.boxscoregeeks.com/players/3168-ron-baker

      Maybe, this stupid contract has a chance of working in the end.

    15. Farfa

      I wouldn’t even call myself a realist. I try to be an optimist but I can’t call Baker a good player based on nothing.

    16. Farfa

      Maybe, this stupid contract has a chance of working in the end.

      But then again it doesn’t because Mills gave him a player option.

    17. 2FOR18, understands math

      @14, the point is that he’s overpaid, not what he’ll produce. This has been gone over a hundred times.

    18. Ingmarrrr

      Knicks trade Willy, Ntilikina, and a contract like Lee plus our unprotected ’18 pick for Kyrie and Melo stays.

      Yes I can see the Knicks believing a team with KP, Melo and Kyrie is championship material.

    19. MSA

      the point is that he’s overpaid, not what he’ll produce. This has been gone over a hundred times.

      Look, I still think it’s a terrible contract.

      BUT if Baker produce at .100 WS48 he’s still overpaid?? What kind of logic is that?

      Mills is betting on a leap. I was just showing that this leap doesn’t has to be superstar production and showing real numbers.

      We can discuss the whole day if it’s stupid strategy or not (the player option says yes), but sometimes you overpay for an asset that you like and belive will grow. This happens all the time in the stock market. If someone in the 90s waited a low price to buy Microsoft or Apple, would be probably waiting until today.

      I will stop here, because I’m a Knicks fan and history taught me that I shouldn’t be optimist.

    20. Farfa

      Yes but it’s not an investment done right! They gave him a player option! I can’t wrap my head around it.

    21. MSA

      Yes but it’s not an investment done right!

      I wonder whatever invested in Facebook 5 years ago is feeling the same thing.

      Yes, for the 1000th time, the player option doesn’t make sense.

    22. english_knick

      I think there are two different definitions of overpay being used. 1) is he paid more than his production is worth? And 2) is he paid more thank the value the market set for him – I.e more than we ‘needed’ to pay to get him?

      On 1 – the answer is ‘well based on historic performance then probably – but he’s young so maybe he ends up living up to or exceeding the contract value’.

      On 2 – we can never know for sure but the answer is almost certainly a huge yes. He did his deal on like day 1 of FA. I doubt anyone else was offering to pay him $5m from their cap space that early in free agency. There is also loads of evidence that outside of genuine max players, FA deals become better value as free agency progresses and dollars dry up.

      So it is very, very likely we paid more than we needed to. Ordinarily the option goes to the side otherwise doing worse in a deal – I.e dollars dry up so someone has to sign a below market deal. They take a second year at their option as injury insurance but with the intention they hit the market again on a year. Or for some reason a team agrees to slightly overpay, but takes the insurance that a better than expected performance can be banked for a year at the team’s option. If you accept we paid more than we had to – definition 2 – the player option is definitely idiotic and makes it an even bigger overpay.

    23. english_knick

      Thing about these two definitions is the first might sort of be forgivable but the second isn’t. All teams have players who end up overpaid and others (cost controlled rookies, for example) who end up underpaid. To win, you need to try to make the best deals you can when you have influence to offset the inevitability some deals go wrong. Paying Baker perhaps 2-3m per year more than we need to, and THJ perhaps 5m more, adds up to the value of a significant piece. So in my book it is unutterably dumb, however much you like Baker.

    24. GoNyGoNyGo

      At the end of the day the THJ contract isn’t horrible

      Yes it is.

      This may feel like it’s coming out of left field, but I think this scenario is very possible:
      Knicks trade Willy, Ntilikina, and a contract like Lee plus our unprotected ’18 pick for Kyrie and Melo stays.

      The most Knicksy thing I ever heard you suggest. How can I get you onto the tank bandwagon?

    25. Z-man

      Well, the thing is that there’s nothing about Baker’s contract and/or career that speaks for optimism. I don’t really know why you chose to figuratively die on that hill.

      Who’s dying on any hill? I’m believing in a kid that has overcome long odds at every stage in his career thus far. That in and of itself speaks for optimism. By your accounting, he never should have played a minute of NCAA tournament basketball. Isn’t that what you would have said based on his HS recruiting status? And he never should have played a minute of NBA ball. Isn’t that what you would have said based on his undrafted FA status?

      I don’t really know why you choose to take the position you are taking, which seems to be that signing Baker is a huge waste of money and that he is almost certain to suck. Considering that this is Sports Entertainment we are talking about, not whether we should invade Iran, I’d rather die on my hill than yours.

    26. english_knick

      Overpaying to ‘bet on a leap’ is exactly where the two concepts differ. If two teams are pursuing a player and you have to exceed your intended price to get him but you’re betting on a leap – ok, calculated risk. But when no-one else is bidding – your not ‘betting’ you are setting fire to money. Buying one lotto ticket for the price of 2. Or in the stocks example – buying one share on Facebook for the list price of 2 shares ‘just because’. Relative to what you paid you might end up feeling ok about it. Relative to what you could have had you feel pretty silly. And I’m probably not paying you to manage my portfolio…

    27. Bruno Almeida

      @26

      That’s the point. Just because a bad decision ends up working ok, it does not make it less of a bad decision.

      Another incredibly bad decision would be trading Willy, Ntilikina and picks to get Kyrie and keeping Melo.

    28. Farfa

      Considering that this is Sports Entertainment we are talking about, not whether we should invade Iran, I’d rather die on my hill than yours.

      And that’s obviously fine.

      And he never should have played a minute of NBA ball. Isn’t that what you would have said based on his undrafted FA status?

      Yes, but the thing is that his actual NBA play proves that. Anyway, I’ll be rooting for Ron Baker anyway and I’d be thrilled to see him starting at PG on opening night (I like to root for him), but I really can’t go on a limb and say he’ll be good just because.

    29. plenty

      I kinda got a chapelle show flashback here (rick James epi):

      “Who’s dying on any hill?…I’d rather die on my hill than yours.”

      Guys…we’re talking about ron baker, why get so excited? Shall we wait until he plays a weeks worth of games before we defend him so hard?

      Baker was def overpaid though, no two ways of seeing that.

    30. kburt8

      Hopefully, if it will be Melo to the Rockets, they are waiting until Zhou Qi becomes tradeable on 8/5. This is really the only way I see the Knicks getting enough back from the Rockets. It makes sense for Portland given that they are capped out for the forseeable future and would get two useful but overpaid pieces in Anderson/Lee that can solve some of their shortcomings with backcourt defense and floor spacing from the frontcourt.

      They could then complete the following trade(s):
      HOU: Melo
      NYK: Harkless, Davis, Qi, Hartenstein, Black or a bunch of HOU salary filler, HOU 1st
      POR: Anderson, Lee (into Crabbe trade exception)

      The trade machine doesn’t let me just trade Lee into the trade exception (says they need to send salary back). Am I missing some limitation regarding the use of a TPE for a luxury tax paying team?

    31. MSA

      If two teams are pursuing a player and you have to exceed your intended price to get him but you’re betting on a leap – ok, calculated risk. But when no-one else is bidding – your not ‘betting’ you are setting fire to money.

      We will never know for sure if there wasn’t any other offer for him.

      And I’m probably not paying you to manage my portfolio…

      I’m just giving numbers. Ron Baker wouldn’t be on my portfolio for the minimum.

      Betting 4% of your cap on someone who you belive will outperform that contract is not outrageous as many here think. Stock market is a very organized market where everyone knows the cost of every asset. Player evaluation is not the same thing and shouldn’t be compared literally.

      To be honest, we probably could find a D-Leaguer PG who could produce 0.58 WS48 for the minimum, but as I said, his contract is inconsequential. I don’t belive he will opt out next year and ask for 12 million. If that’s the case, let him go.

    32. Ben R

      The only hopeful thing is that the man who gave out the terrible contracts for THJ and Baker isn’t the one giving out contracts anymore.

      The only thing wrong with both moves was the contracts. The players themselves and the thought behind signing them was sound just the actual execution was terrible. That is a step up from contracts like Noah or the Rose trade in which the thought behind the trade, the player and the execution were all terrible. Hopefully if nothing else Perry will repair our execution and we can start winning the small moves and becoming more detail oriented.

    33. GoNyGoNyGo

      From basketball reference:

      Kyrie Irving
      Kyrie Andrew Irving ? Twitter: KyrieIrving
      (Uncle Drew, Ankletaker)
      Position: Point Guard ? Shoots: Right
      6-3, 193lb (190cm, 87kg)
      Team: Cleveland Cavaliers
      Born: March 23, 1992 (Age: 25-125d) in Melbourne, Australia au
      College: Duke University
      High School: Saint Patrick in Elizabeth, New Jersey

    34. DRed

      I think Lebron did some singing shit after the news about Kyrie wanting a trade broke, so Kyrie is making fun of Lebron

    35. Hubert

      FWIW I thought there was some disappointing commentary on this site re: Ron Baker last night.

      I don’t recall ever seeing anyone in the media or the Knicks organization saying he was signed because he was scrappy or had a high basketball IQ, or any of the other usual racist tropes that have been bandied about way too often. It seems he was signed (and overpaid) because he is young and was one of our better defensive players last year.

      It’s one thing to call out racially imbalanced perceptions when you see them. It’s another thing to project them yourself.

    36. 2FOR18, understands math

      I think it’s likely that some people just do not understand basic economics, so they just will never get it. This is not a character flaw; there’s a million things I don’t understand.
      English Knick, in his scenario 2, and others in other threads, have explained the issue as straight forward as possible, but it’s just not getting through, so I am dropping the whole thing (until they trade 2 number 1s and Frank for Kyrie).

    37. GoNyGoNyGo

      I never associate “scrappy” with “white” or “black”. I associate it with a willingness to do whatever to get on the floor and stay there. I associate it with playing tenacious defense. There’s only one white dude on the 2016-17 scrap meter top-20.

    38. Hubert

      I’m going to challenge JK47 and Bruno Almeida to show me where these phrases they put in quotations were applied to Ron Baker by someone in the Knicks organization as a reason for overpaying him:

      In general, Baker gets credit for “intangibles” such as “plays the game the right way”

      Nobody ever called Rose, Carmelo or Timmy “bright young men”, “capable of out thinking opponents”, “such a hard worker that he’ll find a way to succeed”

      Ron Baker has shown literally nothing on the court, other than “playing the right way”

      These look like racist straw men to me. I will stand corrected if you can show me where anyone in Knicks mgmt applied these racist tropes to Baker.

    39. d-mar

      – Kyrie on the trading block, according to Vegas oddsmakers, Knicks are the favorite to get him
      – Melo on the trading block, Houston appears to have the most interest

      – #1 trending topic on Knickerblogger??

      RON BAKER (the discussion maker)

    40. Z-man

      I think it’s likely that some people just do not understand basic economics, so they just will never get it. This is not a character flaw; there’s a million things I don’t understand.

      And some people need to try to convince everyone that they’re smarter than everyone else, and have trouble understanding that being a sports fan is just for fun unless, like stratomatic, you are deeply invested financially in outcomes. I am not. If I were actually invested, I would think and root differently. If we were talking about my retirement portfolio, I’d be thinking about things differently. I don’t get too wrapped up in the minutia of decisions that I have no control over. Dolan owns the team, and no matter what I do, that won’t change. I will continue to root hard for and believe in pretty much anyone the Knicks run out onto the floor, and will continue to curse them out whenever they play badly. And the more rootable, the better, the more homegrown the better, and if the record is shitty like it has been for the past 17 years, so be it. Maybe I’m more laid back because I’m old enough to have two Knicks championships under my belt.

      Obviously you must be extremely smart since you keep saying it, and because you “understand math” you must be fabulously wealthy, maybe on your way to owning your very own NBA team. I say this because whenever I would brag to my father about how brilliant I was, my father would come back with, “If you’re so smart, why aren’t you rich?”

    41. Bruno Almeida

      @44

      Hubert, I get that you disagree, but before challenging someone to defend a personal opinion, please read what I’ve wrote.

      “I answered no to the idea that people of color are being devalued in terms of money in comparison to white players; I do still stand by my perception (once again, perception, I’m not claiming objectivity in any way here) that white players get seen in a more favourable light, almost by default, than their black counterparts in many ways: media, fan reaction, etc.

      I’ve never argued that Ron got his contract because the Knicks FO thinks he’s smart; I have no idea what they think. But the fans embracing Baker and the media embracing Baker as this bright young man is something I don’t see happen with black men who similarly show very little in terms of basketball skills.”

      post 212 of last night’s thread, me responding to Ntilakilla.

      “I don’t think the fans and or the media have widespread embraced Lance Thomas as a bright man. Some people have embraced him as a scrappy, valuable player, yes.

      Its a specific situation, Lance Thomas can be considered in the same way by fans / media as Baker without changing the fact that most black young man dont get this treatment.

      Most of all, they dont get this treatment for free; in my personal opinion, they have to earn it a lot more than their white counterparts. That’s the key point in my perception. Lance Thomas has been building this perception for 6 years, and I’d argue it’s still not widespread. Baker got it for free pretty much and by interviews with people who worked with him. Not that its necessarily widespread too; just that it seems to come a lot easier for white dudes in similar situations.

      I’m quite aware there’s contradictions in my speech, I think if you look hard enough you’ll find them anywhere you look. I don’t see how that invalidates something I’ve verbalized as an opinion.”

      214. See how I emphasize fans and media.

    42. JK47

      I’m going to challenge JK47 and Bruno Almeida to show me where these phrases they put in quotations were applied to Ron Baker by someone in the Knicks organization as a reason for overpaying him:

      I said something along the lines of “If Ron Baker wasn’t a white dude with floppy hair he wouldn’t be called scrappy and high-IQ so much” and now I have to prove why the Knicks gave him his contract because he’s white? I never said the Knicks overpaid him because he’s white. I said people tend to ascribe “hustle” and “rootability” and “plays the game the right way” characteristics to him despite the fact that he’s a losing player because he cannot throw the ball into the basket or do much else.

      I don’t know why the Knicks overpaid him. I do know for damn sure that several people here and on other Knicks sites have a real soft spot for this ineffective and overpaid player and see all sorts of scrappitude and work ethic and plays-the-game-the-right-way to him that I just don’t really see. He looks like a regular old end-of-bench 15th man scrub to me. Yet he’s seen as this lovable underdog whose hair you just want to tousle.

      And you know what? That’s fine! It’s not really some major pressing issue. You’re not a racist or a bad person if you like Ron Baker. It’s all good.

    43. 2FOR18, understands math

      Hey Z, I said it right there in the quote you posted; there a million things that I don’t understand. For example, how can a guy’s whose only job, for which he gets paid hundreds of thousands per year, or in Phil’s case, 12 million. pay Ron Baker and Hardaway those contracts or trade a #1 for Barnagni or give melo a NTC?
      Most of the people on here can use bref.com and the trade machine, with help from a cap expert and scouts, and come up with better results than these bozos.

    44. DRed

      – Kyrie on the trading block, according to Vegas oddsmakers, Knicks are the favorite to get him
      – Melo on the trading block, Houston appears to have the most interest

      – #1 trending topic on Knickerblogger??

      RON BAKER (the discussion maker)

      This is where you go for the takes the lamestream media won’t touch

    45. Hubert

      I’m just curious, were you guys responding anyone who said this, or just assuming it was being said somewhere?

      I googled Ron Baker basketball IQ. It doesn’t yield anything more than Tim Hardway Jr basketball IQ, despite your assertion that people only say those things about white players. And nearly all the hits are from his Wichita days and are on two-bit sites like sportsnet.net. It really doesn’t seem like this is a narrative actively being applied to Ron Baker.

      Our GM said he wants players who are “young, long, and athletic” and we know he’s dumb enough to severely overpay for what he wants. Baker is 24, has a 6-10 wingspan, and is mildly athletic. He didn’t deserve that contract, but neither did TH2.

      If there are people lining up in the media, on the Knicks, or on this board using his “high basketball IQ” to support the stupid signing, by all means present it and point out the hypocrisy. But it seemed like you were inserting the tropes yourselves, not responding to any that were present.

    46. Bo Nateman

      @50
      Because at many companies, especially public ones, it is not merit that yields ascension, but pedigree and politics. Sadly, the Knicks are one of these and the poster boy for a non-meritocratic political appointment is our very own Steve Mills. Would love to have been a fly on the wall to hear about the campaign to force out PJ( who admittedly did not help his own cause) and Mills Teflon ascension to the top. CAA, Mills, and Zeke might have triangulated Phil out and Mills in.

    47. Z-man

      @50, generally true. And I hate it when the FO screws up as much as anyone. And I hate when I’m wrong and a guy I was excited about turns out to suck.

      I just don’t like when we unnecessarily bash each other’s intelligence or motivation here (although there are times when it is warranted) or go overboard in tooting our own horns. Everyone here has been wrong enough times to have some humility.

    48. Bruno Almeida

      @52

      I personally was responding to the chain of comments, and comments that have been done before that, of Z-man talking about how he feels Baker’s contract was not that bad, and that there’s a chance he’ll perform up to its standards or better.

      Before last night’s post, he’s argued, many times with me, that Baker is a bright young man that’ll be able to outsmart opponents, that he’s proven time and time again that he can defeat the odds as a scrappy, high IQ player. He said that Baker having success at the Knicks would be a great heart warming story.

      JK47 implied Baker gets this treatment because he’s white, and that’s what started the whole thing.

      Both me and JK47 have clarified multiple times our positions so honestly. Like I’ve said many times, it’s a perception I have (white, not very skilled players get an easier time by the fans / media than black, not very skilled player). Like I told Ras, I won’t produce proof of that, and I probably wouldn’t be able to do so even if I wanted to. I’ve never said “people only say those things about white players”, and my intentions here are not to nitpick stuff or point hypocrisy in other people’s comments or anything, it’s to state my point of view on the discussions at hand.

      I’m quite aware it’s a subjective take on the matter, and I’m more than happy to discuss about racism, bigotry, basketball or any other subject. However, I won’t take this any further because it’s seriously becoming counterproductive.

    49. 2FOR18, understands math

      @54 fair enough. I did purposely say that there are a million things I don’t understand, and that there’s nothing wrong with not getting economic theory (I happened to major in it many, many years ago, but I wish I hadn’t because I’d probably be much happier).

    50. 2FOR18, understands math

      Re: Baker, I’ve been calling him Billy Hoyle since the first time I saw him play. Hopefully he can learn to shoot like him.
      I didn’t know he had a 6 ft 9 reach and 35 inch vertical. So why doesn’t he ever dunk?

    51. er

      Anyone ever see Jordy Nelson talk about how Dbs think he’s slow? Racial bias is a part of what makes us American.

      Jeremy Lin was viewed as scrappy, yet he was a big 6’3/6’4 PG with a lightning fast first step .

    52. Brian Cronin

      “What does Melo’s trade say about the Ron Baker signing? ” A discussion point for later. :)

    53. GoNyGoNyGo

      I love Ron Baker – at the minimum with a team option for the 2nd year.
      His new Knickname: “Scrappy Cocco”.

    54. Hubert

      Before last night’s post, he’s argued, many times with me, that Baker is a bright young man that’ll be able to outsmart opponents, that he’s proven time and time again that he can defeat the odds as a scrappy, high IQ player. He said that Baker having success at the Knicks would be a great heart warming story.

      Fair enough. I must have missed these Z-Man posts, so I stand corrected.

    55. Z-man

      @54 fair enough. I did purposely say that there are a million things I don’t understand, and that there’s nothing wrong with not getting economic theory (I happened to major in it many, many years ago, but I wish I hadn’t because I’d probably be much happier).

      Ha, I was an economics major as well. No wonder we’re both so stupid (as is anyone who wastes as much time as we do posting here!) PS I’m still not rich.

    56. Z-man

      Bruno, I didn’t make this stuff up…

      http://www.nbadraft.net/players/ron-baker

      Strengths: Scrappy, overachieving shooting guard who has a great feel for the game … Solid decision maker … Good shooter with range out to the NBA 3-point line (solid volume 2 per game, and percentage 40%) … Can put the ball on the floor and sees the court well … Has nearly doubled his assist total as a sophomore while playing only slightly more minutes … At the same time, has managed to keep his turnovers relatively the same … Played a key role as a redshirt freshman for Wichita State’s Final Four team showing excellent poise … Work ethic seems to be an obvious factor, has developed greatly since arriving as a walk-on in 2011 (though, one who was guaranteed a scholarship for the next season) … Has improved his on-ball defense, … Greatly improved his all-around offensive game since his freshman season, showing much more ability to create opportunities going to the basket …

    57. Bruno Almeida

      @65

      I never said you did, man, and sorry if my posts gave that impression.

      You just assign more value to this stuff than I do, that’s the difference I see. I assign more value to the performance he has shown so far, and the low level of competition he faced throughout college; you see an overachiever who deserves to be given a chance to prove people wrong again. It’s fine.

    58. Z-man

      And more:

      http://www.kansascity.com/sports/college/article85159697.html

      Neither NBADraft.net nor DraftExpress lists Baker in their mock drafts. Gary Parrish of CBSSports.com slots him No. 56 to Denver. Sam Vecenie of CBSSports.com compares him to former Kansas star Kirk Hinrich, who finished his 13th NBA season with Atlanta.

      “When you think of Ron in college, you think of him a lot as a (shooting guard), next to Fred VanVleet,” Vecenie said. “In the NBA, I kind of see him a little bit more as a defensive-minded (point guard) who can really shoot the ball, who can move the ball well and maybe play next to a more dominant, ball-handling (shooting guard). He’s a great, long, rangy defender.”

      Vecenie sees Baker as a player coaches will covet for his hard work in practice and his team-first approach to basketball. His shooting ability — judged good by college standards after he made 36.9 percent of his three-pointers in four season at WSU — will determine the trajectory of his professional career. If he can adjust to the longer NBA line (NBA range of 22 feet in the corners) to 23-9 at the top of the key), his worth grows.

      “He’s a kid coaches will particularly want to get their hands on and have on their roster because of his intelligence level and toughness,” Vecenie said. “Once you get into that ninth man, 10th man … I think that’s tremendously valuable.”

    59. Z-man

      Bruno, I don’t care that we disagree, that’s what makes discussion interesting. What I don’t like is when it’s implied that I’m ignorantly buying in to some sort of “Great White Hope” delusion promulgated by the press. That’s what I felt that JK47 was insinuating as much at the time. Either way, though, I think it’s grossly unfair to Ron Baker. White or black, he’s earned those descriptions.

    60. GoNyGoNyGo

      I wonder if, instead of someone having said:

      Nobody ever called Rose, Carmelo or Timmy “bright young men”, “capable of out thinking opponents”

      The following was said instead:

      Nobody ever called Jason “white chocolate” Williams, Bargnani or Jason “Jah” “bright young men”, “capable of out thinking opponents”

      That we wouldn’t be having this discussion.

      Here’s my opinion. Neither whites nor blacks hold a monopoly on stupid.

    61. Bruno Almeida

      @72

      This is taking things I’ve written completely out of context… I’ve never said either blacks or whites have a monopoly on stupid…

      I’m done with this discussion, this is really frustrating.

    62. Hugo Busto

      Just look at the NFL combine + draft. Different adjectives are always used for black and white players.

    63. Z-man

      Now if you want to talk about a guy that was a product of the “Great White Hope” hype machine, here’s a much better example. This guy was drafted before Klay and Kawhi, among others. At least Ron Baker wasn’t drafted.

    64. Hugo Busto

      Adjectives used for in NFL combine.
      Whites:
      cerebral, high football iq, grinder, possession receiver, deceptively fast, high motor

      Blacks:
      Talented, freak, athlete, if they don’t talk to the media they have “attitude problems”

    65. JK47

      HoopsHype has an article up about the worst contracts of the 2017 offseason.

      Timmeh is #1.

      Good times.

    66. Bruno Almeida

      @80

      Baker is 9th, ahead of Dion Waiters’ abomination of a contract… that I certainly don’t agree with lol.

    67. ClashFan

      @82
      Love it! A Twin Peaks: The Return reference!

      Maybe we should talk about Mr. Strawberry.

    68. rama in the JING

      Referring to the NFL is meaningless. This is the NBA. And though, as I’ve said, I have read and witnessed racism, much less so. My point last night was that we rooted for John Starks not because he was white or black but because he was scrappy. JK, who won’t let go of his position, said it’s because he was good. The numbers don’t really bear that out – or at the very least, he is beloved much more than his raw numbers merit, because he gave so much of himself on the court.

      If you look, I bet you’ll see that “scrappy” and those kinds of descriptions are used for players WHO PLAY DEFENSE much more than white or black. Especially players who play defense who aren’t that talented. No one calls Steph Curry scrappy because he’s an otherworldly player on offense. But according to the scrappy stats posted above, he’s in the top 3!

      I am well aware how prevalent racism is in society. I don’t follow the NFL, but I’ll believe you there. Regarding basketball, though, it’s bullshit. Off the top of my head I can come up with tons of examples of the reverse. Like, LeBron James has a photographic memory, and he’s been called too cerebral, without enough heart. Tim Duncan is one of the most cerebral players of all time, called The Big Fundamental for Chrissake. John Starks was Scrappy Doo long before Ron was the Hustlebunny. A lot of us loved Landry Fields because he was a cerebral player who always seemed to be in the right spot on the floor, and D’Antoni was quoted as saying he was a smart player who was kind of a glue guy for the Knicks.

      I could keep going, but the point is, you may be right in personal life, and in the political and societal sphere, but in the NBA and on this board, it’s bullshit.

    69. stratomatic is despondent

      I think Baker got “paid” because there’s evidence he’s a plus defender with some other skills and they are hoping his terrible shooting (which included a very sub par year from the free throw line) was somewhat of an negative aberration. I understand the thinking, but imo that’s the kind of speculating you do when you are signing someone to a very cheap contract hoping to get good value. The Knicks paid him for the “potential upside surprise”. IMO that was foolish.

      It’s pretty much the same with THJ.

      There’s evidence he has improved defensively since going to Atlanta and he played well enough when given the starting job last year to think he’s worth the salary they game him. But in this case, the 2nd half of the season last year may have been an upside aberration. They are paying for the “potential that it’s sustainable” and that he’s at least neutral defender. IMO that was foolish.

      IMO, you should look for players with upside (like Baker and THJ) and try to pay for what the player IS, not what you hope they will become. You want to get “hope” and “speculation” for free. That way if you are right, you have good value, and if you are wrong, nothing lost.

    70. rama in the JING

      One word. Adammorrison

      If anyone is racist, it’s Michael Jordan. Why that guy wants to keep drafting crappy white players is something of a mystery to me.

    71. rama in the JING

      By the way, @GoNY, thanks for posting that link. That was interesting. I note that Meyers Leonard was in the bottom of the league in scrappiness, so we can only hope we come up with him in a trade…!

    72. Ntilakilla

      So is KP a victim of anti-white, European racism because he was drafted after Okafor and Russell, was dogged in the media by many pundits and even his own fanbase on draft day?

    73. Totes McGoats

      The most Knicksy thing I ever heard you suggest. How can I get you onto the tank bandwagon?

      Oh yea..I’m all for the tank because I’d like to see us net one more good lottery prospect to develop. I want Harvey, Thor, deGrom, Matz, and Lugo without the injuries, if you will.

    74. stratomatic is despondent

      I remember Hornacek referring to Justin Holiday as a sponge that absorbs everything you teach him very quickly.

      I’ve heard Rondo referred to as legitimately brilliant.

      Shane Battier was always considered one of a handful of the smartest players in the league.

      I’m not saying stereotypes don’t exist, but sometimes people are what they are, they get recognized for what they are, and color has nothing to do with it. We sometimes make associations between color and the description when color was not part of the thinking. People are simply describing reality as they see it.

      IMO Baker is kind of a scrappy player, but so was Galloway. Patrick Beverly is very scrappy.

    75. Grocer

      My new theory is that Baker got that contract because he’s a fan favorite and it’s a small price to pay for an on court mascot.

    76. 2FOR18, understands math

      You know who I think got dogged in the draft maybe kind of possibly because he was white? Zach Collins. That guy does everything you’d want from a big man in today’s game. He’s like a better rebounding version of KP. In 2 years tops, people will be shaking their heads that Tatum, Jackson, Markennen, Nkitilina and Smith were taken before him.

    77. GoNyGoNyGo

      @72 Hey Bruno, I wasn’t pointing fingers at all. I’m just pointing out that by chance, whoever posted that statement (maybe it was you) would’ve picked others as examples if they were current Knicks. It probably was you but my point is that I doubt you considered race when you posted it. I find that sports fans, and basketball fans in particular, don’t give a hoot if you’re white, black, hispanic, transsexual, or purple. If you can play, we want you. If you suck, we’ll tell you.

    78. JK47

      My point last night was that we rooted for John Starks not because he was white or black but because he was scrappy. JK, who won’t let go of his position, said it’s because he was good. The numbers don’t really bear that out

      Mehhh. Starks was a key component of one of the best defensive teams in the history of the league. He wasn’t an efficient scorer, but he was an impact player who actually affected the outcome of games quite a bit. In his best years he was up around .140 WS48, not shabby at all for a two-guard. He was a good player.

    79. GoNyGoNyGo

      @90 – Welcome aboard the tank-train. I would rather we saddle up for the likes of Judge, Sanchez, Frazier, Severino and Montgomery than the over-hyped, walking-wounded that are the Mets, but I get your point. And I’m looking for 2 more lotto picks not 1. Two chances to score. If we keep our picks and stink up the joint for just two years, we can change the future of this team.

    80. Bruno Almeida

      I respect it gony, but I’m sorry, basketball and sports fans do give a hoot, specially in terms of sexuality (which you mentioned). Remember the Jason Collins vitriol, coming from media personalities, etc?

      It’s fine if you guys truly believe there’s no racism, sexism, homophobia in a specific group of people. I just think it’s a bit naive to expect those things to happen everywhere, but not in sports. I could go on with numerous racist / homophobic situations (specially with soccer), but I really won’t.

      Let’s just not start with the insane nonsense that reverse racism actually exists. That’s going too far.

    81. Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada

      Please let there be a Melo trade within the next four hours so we can stop endlessly litgating Ron Baker

    82. rama in the JING

      Starks was a key component of one of the best defensive teams in the history of the league. He wasn’t an efficient scorer, but he was an impact player who actually affected the outcome of games quite a bit.

      That’s what I imagine the Hustlebunny can be. Defensive metrics seem to support my eye test that he was a factor on D, which is part of why we tended to play well with him on the floor, even though he was a terrible point guard.

      Interesting that one draft review said he’d be perfect as a defensive-minded point next to a more ball-dominant SG. That sounds a lot like Key. (I’m going call Ntilikina Key and see if it sticks. Ntilakilla isn’t bad, either, but Key is short, easy, sounds similar, and if we’re lucky…accurate.)

    83. rama in the JING

      I can believe Rondo is a genius, but he’s also the weirdest player I can remember. Anyone think of anyone more strange than him? I mean, Starbury eating Vaseline was pretty strange…and JR untying people’s shoelaces, though that’s just more juvenile than strange.

      Who is the strangest NBA player people can think of?

    84. Bruno Almeida

      @102

      2018 picks? yes, for sure.

      TMZ is reporting Kyrie Irving decided to request a trade after talking to Justin Bieber’ s pastor.

      He might be a dark horse for a future iteration of the “strangest NBA player” discussion.

      My vote goes to Arvydas Sabonis. Had a remarkable career despite multiple crippling injuries, looked like he walked in concrete shoes and still managed to be effective in an era of incredible Centers, and his most remarkable skill as a 7’3″ guy was passing. Not strange in the Rondo / Marbury way, of course, just in how weird the whole thing was and how insane his talent was comparing to his physical condition.

    85. TheOakmanCometh

      Every year NBA.com puts out a survey of GMs. One of the questions is “Which player makes the most of limited natural ability?” Here is the last set of answers:

      1. Kevin Love
      2. Marc Gasol
      3. Matt Bonner
      4. Jared Dudley
      5. JJ Barea

      Notice anything about that group? Go back to almost any year and the list is disproportionately filled with white players. It’s very easy for people to fall back on the kind of stereotypes that Hugo Busto described, even GMs.

      Meanwhile, does JJ Barea actually have limited natural ability? He’s fast as hell. Does Kevin Love? He’s got a ton of elite basketball skills. When you’re white, observers are just more inclined to think you’re successful because of grit and intelligence, and when you’re black observers are more inclined to think you’re a great athlete. Many people evaluate Baker the same way. Undrafted white guy who can’t jump high? MUST be smart.

      Interestingly, NBA.com took that question out of its survey after 2014-15.

      http://www.nba.com/gmsurvey/2016

    86. GoNyGoNyGo

      @102 – Make it happen! If you can’t, you’re out of here!

      @103 – Strange? The Worm. Period. End of story.

    87. Ntilakilla

      TMZ is reporting Kyrie Irving decided to request a trade after talking to Justin Bieber’ s pastor.

      So someone who probably believes the world is thousands of years old is giving advice to someone else who believes the world is flat. And the really sad thing is that one of two people is a millionaire. SMH America.

    88. Bruno Almeida

      @108

      It gets even weirder, as it seems Bieber was baptized by this Carl Lentz dude in Tyson Chandler’s bathtub… and I found this because when googling Carl Lentz, the first result is a feature from a brazilian website with a picture of Bieber and Chandler together, saying that Chandler was Lentz lol.

    89. chrisk06811

      sources close to the situation report that Steve Mills gave Ron and THJ their contract so that the first time CLE comes to town, he can point at them and tell D Rose to his face “those guys are worth 8 times and 2.3 times what you are, collectively”

      OK, I made that up, but wouldn’t that be amazing?

    90. Ntilakilla

      @109
      Haha

      @108

      LOL SMH SIGH

      Its a brilliant racket duping young millionaire athletes of their money by playing up to their religiosity.

    91. Ntilakilla

      I really feel that if Kyrie finished his college education at a top institution like Duke he could have taken Astronomy or Geology and learned more about the Earth.

    92. rama in the JING

      Yeah, I guess I think so much of Rodman’s achievements that I forget he was supernaturally strange, too.

    93. 2FOR18, understands math

      Rodman was a basketball genius and the strangest NBA player ever. He was dressing up like a woman long before Jason Collins came out. And he never played the victim and never gave a fuck what anybody said. He’s the antithesis of today’s SJW and I always admired him.

    94. Ntilakilla

      The Spurs have only been in the Draft Lottery three times in its 31 year existence.

      Their picks: Tim Duncan, David Robinson, and Sean Elliot.

    95. Ntilakilla

      In the last game of the 2012 NBA season, the Warriors became the first team ever to start 5 rookies.

    96. 2FOR18, understands math

      Coolest ever = Clyde
      Meanest = Jordan
      Toughest = Reed
      Classiest = Dr J
      Smartest = Russell

    97. rama in the JING

      The Spurs have only been in the Draft Lottery three times in its 31 year existence.

      Their picks: Tim Duncan, David Robinson, and Sean Elliot.

      That’s crazy. But isn’t pick 15 (Kawhi) a lottery pick?

    98. Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada

      @120

      Mark Aguirre? Dantley?

      @121

      Tim Duncan? Or, maybe…Derek Fisher??

      @122
      Lottery is top 14

    99. glidepath

      They actually traded George Hill to Indy for that pick. Indy technically selected him

    100. Ntilakilla

      Mark Aguirre? Dantley?

      You’ve got a good idea, but you’re speaking the wrong [hint] language .

      Derek Fisher

      Correct. 259 games in 18 seasons – 16 of which he played in the playoffs. The most by an active player is 220. Do you know who that is?

    101. Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada

      You’ve got a good idea, but you’re speaking the wrong [hint] language .

      oh, it’s alex english

      Correct. 259 games in 18 seasons – 16 of which he played in the playoffs. The most by an active player is 220. Do you know who that is?

      It’s one of Lebron, Manu, or Parker. I’ll go with Lebron.

    102. Ntilakilla

      oh, it’s alex english

      BOOM.

      It’s one of Lebron, Manu, or Parker. I’ll go with Lebron.

      Close, but you guessed wrong. Its TP.

    103. Ntilakilla

      Bonus question, Silky.

      Alex English was drafted 23rd overall in the early second round of the 1976 NBA draft. He is considered to be one of the greatest 2nd round picks in NBA history. Do you know who is the only league MVP ever to have been drafted in the 2nd round of the NBA draft?

    104. Ntilakilla

      The 1984 NBA draft is renowned as arguably the greatest draft of all time. Which 1984 NBA draft pick won the most Olympic medals?

    105. Bruno Almeida

      it’s gotta be a tricky one, cause Jordan and Barkley should have the same number… probably someone who played in the pre dream team ones?

    106. the don nelson era

      My curiosity got the better of me so I looked it up… I won’t steal Ras’s thunder by revealing the answer but I don’t feel bad revealing that the medals weren’t in basketball.

    107. Ntilakilla

      Yeah, its a trick question. The answer is Carl Lewis – he was drafted in the 10th round of the 1984 NBA draft by the Chicago Bulls. Funny how Micheal Jordan wasn’t even the best athlete taken by his team that year.

    108. Bruno Almeida

      Oh right, I never knew… the only connection between Carl Lewis and the Bulls I remember is that one time he tried and failed miserably at singing the anthem at a Bulls game.

    109. Ntilakilla

      1. Who is the only Rookie of the Year to lead the league in scoring and rebounding?

      2. Who the only Rookie of the Year to win an MVP?

    110. Ntilakilla

      Wes Unseld and Wilt both did. So your question is wrong.

      Oh, you’re right about the second question.

    111. DS

      I’m sorry, I just not mature enough to not hate Kevin Durant.

      He’s talking about joining the Warriors: “I didn’t go there to make my life easier [you did, but that’s really OK]. I didn’t go there so I could stop getting up at 8:30 [WHOA!!! 8:30!].”

      Thanks for ruining the sport. God bless Kyrie and his anti-superteam moxie.

    112. Ntilakilla

      Who are the only two players to ever lead the NBA in points and assists in a given season?

    113. DS

      Wilt never won an MVP as a rook.

      Come on, man you can look these things up before you post your comment. Yes, he did. 1960.

    114. Ntilakilla

      Come on, man you can look these things up before you post your comment. Yes, he did. 1960.

      You’re behind in the thread.

    115. english_knick

      @102. All day every day and three times on Sundays. But what is houston giving Portland to get them to take Anderson and give up a good player on a good contract and a pick while only shipping out one bad (but less bad than the one they are taking on) contract?

    116. Jack Bauer

      @142 Nate Archibald is one ?

      I’m glad we’ve moved onto sports trivia and off of Ron Baker. His mother would have been proud that so many people were talking about her son for so long.

    117. fmikieo

      I know it’s baseball, but Fred Lynn won MVP and rookie of the year as a CF for the angels.

    118. Bruno Almeida

      oh damn, for some reason my head had a brain fart and remembered Wilt averaging 50/25 as 50 points, 25 assists haha

    119. JK47

      The other one is Oscar Robertson but that comes with an asterisk. Robertson led the league in assists per game, but not total assists, which is how the league used to crown the assist champion.

    120. Ntilakilla

      The other one is Oscar Robertson but that comes with an asterisk. Robertson led the league in assists per game, but not total assists, which is how the league used to crown the assist champion.

      You’re slaying it.

    121. KnickfaninNJ

      I’m not surprised things are quiet now. Signings can happen quickly when free agency starts because if you wait to sign someone you lose him. But trades are different. There is no real deadline for a Melo trade until close to preseason training. Melo wants to go to Houston but Houston basically can’t afford him because they have to give value for someone to take Anderson and then give additional value to get Melo, and I don’t think they have the assets for that. Any other team, for example, Cleveland, Portland or OKC, needs to get his agreement, and I don’t think that will be forthcoming until it really sinks in that Houston isn’t in a position to trade for him. It won’t sink in until he is really faced with starting preseason training, if then. So I expect to wait a lot.

    Comments are closed.