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Tuesday, September 26, 2017

Knicks Morning News (2017.07.16)

  • [ESPN] Sources: Melo still counting on deal to Rockets
    (Saturday, July 15, 2017 7:27:55 PM)

    Sources: Melo still counting on deal to Rockets

  • [NYTimes] N.B.A. Hopeful’s Scar Tells a Tale of Determination
    (Saturday, July 15, 2017 3:46:59 PM)

    Josh Adams, a former Wyoming basketball star, played five months of the 2016-17 season in Russia after recovering from severe injuries sustained in a car crash.

  • [NY Newsday] New Knicks GM Scott Perry to seek talent with ‘no agendas’
    (Saturday, July 15, 2017 7:45:00 PM)

    Scott Perry’s first job in an NBA front office left an indelible mark on him. The Knicks’ new general manager takes some of the things he learned from former Pistons president Joe Dumars wherever he goes.

  • [NYPost] Jeff Van Gundy: Carmelo not ‘a natural fit’ for Rockets
    (Saturday, July 15, 2017 11:00:12 PM)

    Former Rockets coach Jeff Van Gundy still lives in Houston and has a good read on that franchise. And Van Gundy, recently named a Team USA coach for the Americas Tournament and World Cup qualifiers, isn’t sure Carmelo Anthony is “a natural fit” for a Houston team trying to dethrone the Warriors. In Las Vegas…

  • [NYPost] Tim Hardaway Jr. opens up on why this time will be different
    (Saturday, July 15, 2017 4:15:35 PM)

    Guard Tim Hardaway Jr., reacquired by the Knicks after two seasons in Atlanta, takes a shot at some Q&A with Post columnist Steve Serby. Q: How much did Phil Jackson’s criticism of you when he traded you to the Hawks in 2015 motivate you? A: It motivated me big-time. Then when I went down to…

  • [NYPost] The team-building failure on new Knicks GM’s résumé
    (Saturday, July 15, 2017 3:20:21 PM)

    The tandem of president Steve Mills and general manager Scott Perry heading the Knicks front office is expected to be kinder, gentler and friendlier. According to sources, the duo will be a lot more available to the media. While Phil Jackson set his own media policy, which especially last season was to avoid the local…

  • [NYDN] It’s time for the disappointing Knicks-Carmelo marriage to end
    (Saturday, July 15, 2017 8:27:14 PM)

    For both the Knicks and Carmelo to move forward, Carmelo needs to move out.

  • 76 comments on “Knicks Morning News (2017.07.16)

    1. KnickfaninNJ

      I think it’s as likely the other owners and the commissioner would do something about Melo not playing than it is the Union gets upset. The owners want to sell tickets, and having the Knicks not playing a star would not be viewed favorably. That said, not playing Melo would make his trade value even worse than it is, so I would think that is a last resort for the Knicks

    2. kevin5318

      Melo isn’t getting benched unless you want the players to turn against the entire organization.

    3. KnickfaninNJ

      I’m not sure about that part. I remember reading how some new player on the Patriots saw Tom Brady chewed out by Belichek for messing up in practice. The player was motivated by this and not turned off. He figured if Brady could get chewed everyone was expected to do their job and he liked that. If Hornacek takes Melo out of the game when he’s not doing what he’s asked to do, that could be good for the team.

    4. kevin5318

      That’s fine but flat out not playing Melo would not sit well in the locker room where everyone likes him. It would just cause more uneccesary drama for a team trying to repair its image.

    5. Eternal OptiKnist

      I just read yesterday’s thread. Wow.

      Is it as simple as us trying to extract more from Houston? Is it possible we recognize Houston is in a similar situation we were when we were trying to acquire Anthony? With or without melo, we’re going to suck next year. Maybe I’m giving our FO too much credit, but it’s a smart move to pause negotiations to a) Allow your new GM to get up to speed, incorporate his thinking and b) to turn the screws on the the parties desperate to make the trade (Knicks circa 2011). My $0.02…just my speculation..no idea if true..and if true, no idea if it works.

    6. KnickfaninNJ

      Kevin, ic you are saying, don’t just bench and not play Melo at all for no apparent reason, I agree with that. It’s much better to give him a role on the team that makes the team better and bench him if he doesn’t do it. Then you help the team either way.

    7. kevin5318

      I think this trade gets done so hopefully we don’t have to worry about it for much longer.

    8. The Glass Half Rebuilt

      Discussing the idea of benching Melo is like discussing the idea of a banana boat reunion coming to the Knicks in 2018. Pointless.

      I’m really concerned with how quiet LeBron is on all of this. We need him to make a statement so Love can get involved.

    9. danvt

      It’s simple. We tried to trade him but there were no offers that we’re acceptable from HOU or CLE. So, unless that changes, he’s going to have to expand his list of destinations if he really wants out. As of now he’s still ours. We need to make it clear to him that he’s just one player on the team. He’s not the captain, not the star, here’s how we’re trying to play, etc.

      Sorry about what Phil said. He’s gone. We have to move on and be professional.

      Knicks seem to be handling this pretty well right now.

    10. wetbandit

      – pretty confident Melo staying would be too toxic to consider. Pretty sure we’re just letting em sweat. Knicks culture works for us here in that other teams wouldn’t put anything stupid past us.

      – I don’t put any stock in summer league, but damn if Lonzo doesn’t have some of the best court vision and pass accuracy I’ve ever seen. I just saw a 75 foot alley oop. He is constantly causing defenders to be 100% locked in, even on the inbounds pass. He’s so good.

    11. jkhar

      Lonzo should have been the #1 pick. Celtics and Philly will both regret not picking him.

    12. The Glass Half Rebuilt

      Philly will not regret going after Markelle Fultz. He is a flawless basketball prospect and we’ll see that four times a year.

    13. Bruno Almeida

      Ball x Fultz might end up being the Chris Paul x Deron Williams of this generation.

      I would bet on Lonzo being the Paul in this comparison, but both will have remarkable careers imo.

    14. Bruno Almeida

      there was hype around those guys, but also a lot of skepticism, specially with Mudiay… MCW got overhyped once he started playing and scored a lot of pointzz for that dreadful Sixers team, but there weren’t many indications that he would be a star in the NBA.

      Its been a very long time since the two best prospects in the Draft are PGs, since Paul and Deron, that’s why I compared them. There was 2008 with Rose and Westbrook but Westbrook wasn’t as highly regarded coming to the draft.

    15. d-mar

      It’ll be interesting to look back on this draft in 3-4 years and see who panned out and who didn’t . Fultz and Ball seem pretty assured to have productive NBA careers, but after that?

      Based on no statistical evidence whatsoever, I’m betting that Markinnen, Isaac, Fox and Jackson are the “busts” from the 2017 draft

    16. Z-man

      Mudiay was incredibly hyped, as was D’Angelo Russell. And yes, westbrook was not as hyped, OJ Mayo was. Steph was not hyped much at all, Rubio was. MCW was compared to Magic Johnson prior to preseason.

      The larger point is that there is no way to tell who will plateau early and who will be transcendent. It’s fun to talk about, but it’s way to early to talk with any sense of certainty.

    17. Z-man

      If I did have to guess, I think Ron Baker will be better than any of them, with Dotson and Jaramaz close behind.

    18. ClashFan

      I’m fine with the Knicks pausing and getting the new GM’s input, but the notion that Phil somehow ruined Melo’s trade value with his public comments is BS.

      The problem here is the NTC, Melo’s huge salary, and his declining skills. The NTC absolutely is Phil’s fault and is obviously the major stumbling block to getting “fair value” for him. Houston knows that it is one of only 2 teams that he’s willing to waive the NTC for. That gives them lots of leverage.

      Still, the deal needs to go down before training camp. This could be a massive distraction for the team. He’s liked by his teammates, and they are going to sympathize with him. Does anyone seriously believe that he’ll adapt and be nice to Hornacek’s system?

    19. Bruno Almeida

      Well, certainty is never a thing when predicting young players in the NBA, but there are different levels of prospects. I really didn’t see so much hype at Mudiay, there’s a reason he was picked 7th in a very underwhelming draft.

      Nobody expected Anthony Bennett to be a star, while pretty much everyone predicted Karl Anthony Towns to be great… Fultz and Ball are both much closer to the KAT level than the Bennett level in terms of being a sure thing.

      I have high hopes for at least Fultz, Ball, Fox, Isaac and Ntilikina, and my guess is that Tatum and Jackson will have long careers (even if they never become great), so Markannen is pretty much the one guy I have as a bust right now.

    20. er

      Phil somehow ruined Melo’s trade value with his public comments is BS.

      Again , it’s not hard to see how he did. He basically made it known that he had no use for him and the Knicks were desperate to dump him. Why would you offer a lot for that?

    21. JK47

      If Melo can’t be moved in a way that does not involve taking on more bad contracts, the best thing that could happen would be to just have him play out the string. Let him play in his regular role, move forward like everything is normal. As constituted this is a very mediocre team that is not going to be very exciting. I think there’s at least a chance Melo would exercise his ETO after a season like that. In the meantime, maybe a situation arises where you can trade him.

      I’d get used to the idea of having him on the opening day roster.

    22. Z-man

      What??! The 2015 draft was hyped as the deepest draft since the Melo draft. Many here wanted Mudiay over KP and he was the 2nd highest rated PG behind Russell, who was hyped as the next Steph. OTOH nobody even knew who Bennett was.

    23. Jack Bauer

      @25 – Ageee, this is better than making another stupid deal. It’s not like the Knicks won’t suck if Melo stays (see 2016 and 2015 seasons), so getting a high pick would still be in play. It also increases the chances of Houston or Cleveland offering more depending on how they are doing and also increases the chances Melo will expand his list of teams so he can leave NY.

      Worst case he plays out the contract and the Knicks get cap relief.

    24. Bruno Almeida

      How is the 2015 draft not very underwhelming? It was overhyped at the time, and I agree Mudiay was a big point of contention, but the fact he dropped to 7th shows most teams didn’t think he had the potential of a Lonzo Ball or Markelle Fultz.

      the 2015 draft has produced exactly one star so far (KAT), 3 good players (KP, Turner and Hernangomez) and Devin Booker. Half the lottery picks can pretty much be considered busts already. How is that not underwhelming?

      I agree its early for some of those guys like Russell, Mudiay or Hezonja, but the level of production they have shown so far is not even decent, it’s terrible.

    25. Cock Jowles, Not a Knicks Fan Because Fuck This Team

      The player was motivated by this and not turned off. He figured if Brady could get chewed everyone was expected to do their job and he liked that.

      The NFL doesn’t have guaranteed contracts, and the NBA does. Therein lies the gulf between what you think should happen and what would actually happen.

      Remember when Jerome James got a 5-year, $30M deal and played fewer than 700 minutes over four seasons due to his penchant for eating whole buffets at a time? Remember how the Knicks punished him by playing him five and ten minutes, respectively, in his last two seasons with the Knicks? Yeah, they really motivated him.

    26. Totes McGoats

      Meanwhile, Dennis Smith Jr looks like a star, albeit against summer league competition. Don’t get me wrong- I believe Ntilikina will develop into a fine player and I’m happy he’s a Knick. But the timing of letting Phil go was just BAD. If Phil was let go before the draft, we’d probably have DSJ. Already he’s becoming a student of the game according to Carlisle, and already lighting guys up in summer league while Ntilikina had to sit out and we don’t know what we have within Hornacek’s system at PG. IMO, Ntilikina has 2 things going against him as a PG:
      1. Hornacek’s preference of a 2 PG lineup which would most likely move Ntilikina to the SG spot because he’s not a penetrating PG.
      2. Every big PG prospect since Magic has kinda fizzled or has been bit by the injury bug.

      I guess I’m old school in my hopes because I want Ntilikina to stick as a PG. If you have a great big man/PG tandem who play both sides of the ball, your team is gonna be tough to beat. That being said, I wanna see KP at C with Ntilikina at PG leading the charge. One locks down the paint, the other causes havoc on the perimeter. Those two can be what everyone thought Penny & Shaq would be, but with more versatility on offense. I can’t wait to see how Hornacek handles it.

      DSJ may not be ready defensively, but with Ntilikina out- I can’t help but imagine how exciting a DSJ/KP tandem would have been. For now, I’ll just hope Ntilikina has the kind of pleasantly surprising rookie season that KP had. I was on board with drafting Ntilikina or Isaac from the start because they were 2 young guys with high ceilings who take pride in defense. I’m looking forward to seeing those 2- especially Ntilikina- get rolling

    27. Cock Jowles, Not a Knicks Fan Because Fuck This Team

      DSJ is going to get eaten up inside by the Goberts and Jordans of the NBA, not to mention the on-ball guys like Kawhi and Bradley, but he looks like a guy who will either be a Conference Semifinals starter or at worst, a ten-year journeyman who gets traded around by all the front offices who think they can fix high-upside players. If he’s out of the league in the three years, I will be shocked.

    28. The Glass Half Rebuilt

      Dennis Smith Jr tore an ACL as a high school player and he didn’t change the way he plays (or, more importantly, lands after a rim attack). I don’t know if DSJr is empty calories or if he’s actually a franchise player, but I do know he has commitment issues on defense and he will eventually have knee troubles at the next level.

      My boy Frank? Frank will be a two way stud who can’t sustain the supremely high usage rate that is expected of the true franchise player. Chances are he’s the best two way player on our team in 5 years (KP will always struggle to rebound which takes him out of the running). Frank Ntilikina was an excellent pick.

    29. Totes McGoats

      Speaking of Gobert, I’m also anxious to see how the Jazz retool around him with a renewed defensive identity. No go to scorers, but a bunch of 2 way players who share the ball and communicate. They could be this year’s version of Larry Brown’s Pistons squad- even though the Pistons could just give the ball to Sheed and get what they wanted on offense if they needed to. The Dubs look completely dominant again, but this season the rest of the NBA should be more interesting than it was last season.

    30. stratomatic is despondent

      Again , it’s not hard to see how he did. He basically made it known that he had no use for him and the Knicks were desperate to dump him. Why would you offer a lot for that?

      1. If you don’t offer enough the Knicks can say no.

      2. Melo waved the NTC for at least 2 interested teams. That means if they want him they have to bid against each other.

      3. The entire advanced stats community, every scout, every coach, and every GM doesn’t care about the narrative in the newspapers. They only care about their own evaluation of him as a player.

      There are 2 things impacting Melo’s value negatively.

      1. His age, knees, lower production, loss of athleticism, lower efficiency and lack of defense.

      2. The NTC decreases the potential market. It would be better if there was no NTC because another team or two might be interested enough to bid a little more.

    31. Jack Bauer

      I’m glad so many here have such high opinions on Frank. I’m not sure where all of this optimism comes from as there has been so little of his play to really get an idea. I have no clue if he’ll be good or not until I see him against NBA competion.

      In the meantime DSJ looks like a player, and considering Frank missed summer league, it’s just another bad look for the Knicks. DSJ tearing it up, Frank MIA- those are not good optics no matter how you slice it.

    32. JK47

      In the meantime DSJ looks like a player, and considering Frank missed summer league, it’s just another bad look for the Knicks.

      On the other hand, Summer League is essentially meaningless. It’s a handful of games with a pickup-style atmosphere. Dennis Smith was done playing meaningful basketball in March, Ntilikina was still playing in meaningful games even after the draft in June. I don’t consider it a “bad look” that he was a little bit banged up. He didn’t have the luxury of three months of rest like Smith.

      I wouldn’t sweat Summer League or Frank’s absence in it.

    33. Donnie Walsh

      the 2015 draft has produced exactly one star so far (KAT), 3 good players (KP, Turner and Hernangomez) and Devin Booker. Half the lottery picks can pretty much be considered busts already.

      Most of the lottery class of 2015 just turned old enough to buy beer, and you’re calling them busts? Wow, I guess your Knicks pessimism has pervaded into pessimism for all NBA teams, nice! #teampessimistcantbestopped!

    34. Bruno Almeida

      yeah, people are not confident in Ntilikina because he hasn’t played against NBA level competition, meanwhile DSJ also hasn’t and gets praised all the time. NC State got destroyed in the ACC even by crap teams like Clemson, and Summer League is the AAU of the NBA, volume scorers shooting every time they get the ball and players trying to impress scouts… meanwhile Ntilikina was playing what you guys call meaningless games against professional veterans in a mid-level European league.

    35. Bruno Almeida

      @38

      I’m very fine with calling Okafor, Hezonja, Mudiay, Stanley Johnson, Frank Kaminsky, Trey Lyles and Cameron Payne busts. Thats half the guys drafted in the lottery.

      and I was benevolent not calling Russell a bust yet, because I give him some leeway due to the Lakers being so horrible and him having to carry everything so early on. Winslow has also been horrible, but he at least seems to be a decent defender so he’ll have a place in the NBA (not if he keeps a career .460 ts% tho)

      it’s not pessimism, it’s assessing that the performances these players have shown so far, some even in starter minutes, has been terrible and mostly showing no signs of improvement from year one to two.

    36. KnickfaninNJ

      Jowles, I’m not talking about motivating Melo, I’m talking about the effect on the rest of the team. Are you suggesting the rest of the team was mad because James wasn’t playing?

    37. Z-man

      How is the 2015 draft not very underwhelming? It was overhyped at the time, and I agree Mudiay was a big point of contention, but the fact he dropped to 7th shows most teams didn’t think he had the potential of a Lonzo Ball or Markelle Fultz.

      We’re only talking about hype at draft time before they played actual NBA ball, not how things worked out. In fact, the difference between the hype for 2015 and how things now look after the fact supports my essential point that now, just like then, it’s way too early to anoint anyone the next big thing.

      the 2015 draft has produced exactly one star so far (KAT), 3 good players (KP, Turner and Hernangomez) and Devin Booker. Half the lottery picks can pretty much be considered busts already. How is that not underwhelming?

      There’s lots of other very young guys (I’m ingnoring guys drafted as juniors and seniors) that have shown flashes (e.g. Oubre, Looney, Lyles) and guys for whom the jury is still out (e.g. Winslow, Stanley, Hezonja)

      I agree its early for some of those guys like Russell, Mudiay or Hezonja, but the level of production they have shown so far is not even decent, it’s terrible.

      If we had drafted any of them, I’d be really bummed right now. But at the time, most here would have been THRILLED with Russell, many very happy with Mudiay, and some (very few) good with Hezonja. And almost no one was pining for Turner, mainly due to worries about his weird gait. So, as I said, let’s not get too confident in any of these young guys based on the current evidence, all of which is sketchy.

    38. Bruno Almeida

      I was never talking about hype, Z-man.

      Ball is not hype only, he has performed incredibly well through an entire NCAA season, he has all the physical tools and every scouting report says he’s wise beyond his years on the court.

      how is being hyped about that the same thing as hyping Mudiay in 2015?

      Ball and Fultz might be complete busts, but to say expecting him to be good is the same thing as expecting Mudiay to be good at the time is just insanity.

      fans get hyped by potential stars; all Im saying is that its different to be hyped about Ball for example, who has looked like a transformational talent, and someone like Russell or Mudiay.

    39. Ben R

      I think if you want to see most likely where Ball will end up in his prime watch Teodosic this year with the Clippers.

      Ball if his shot mechanics don’t get in the way will be a nice shooter from distance and will be a fantastic passer in the NBA but will be a terrible defender. I don’t see that ever getting much better. He does not have good lateral speed or great athleticism in general.

      Fultz will be a nice player but I don’t see him as a transformative talent. His team not winning is a concern and overall he reminds me of Russel coming out of college. Similar stats, a little better finishing at the rim and scoring in general and a little better passing but a worse shooter and similar rebounding and both were poor defensively.

    40. Bruno Almeida

      Dennis Smith Jr is apparently Michael Jordan 2.0 and he won 4 games in the ACC last year, so…

    41. Donnie Walsh

      10 guys from the 2015 draft have played 1000+ minutes with a WS/48 above .100

      Only 4 guys from the 2014 class have done that.

      And the 2016 class only had 4 guys above .100 that played anything close to meaningful minutes.

      I would expect a handful of the 2015 lottery guys to improve, if not all of them. They are very young. They aren’t busts yet.

    42. The Glass Half Rebuilt

      @45 so what you’re saying is Frank Ntilikina will be the best point guard in this draft class?

      I agree.

    43. The Glass Half Rebuilt

      Another thing people have to realize about these “freshmen” is that most of them reclassify, so they’re really the age of sophomores in college. Lonzo Ball, De’Aaron Fox, Dennis Smith Jr, Josh Jackson, and Johnathan Isaac are all turning 20 this year (or already turned 20). Only Frank Ntilikina, Markelle Fultz, and Jayson Tatum were born in 1998 (the age of true freshman across the country). They’re young but they’re further along than people think. It’s very popular in the US to reclassify, and that’s why a kid like Marvin Bagley can actually go to college this year.

    44. Bruno Almeida

      @47

      Donnie, please re-read my posts.

      you complained about me saying some of the lottery guys are busts, and you answer that 10 guys had plus. 100 ws48.

      let’s see who they are:
      Towns, Looney, Harrell, Turner, Holmes, Hernangomez, Cauley Stein, Dekker, Christmas, Porzingis, Nance Jr and Powell are the 13 players with +.100 ws48 for their careers.

      Towns, Porzingis, Cauley Stein and Turner were lottery picks.

      the next lottery pick in that list is Kaminsky, at .073 ws48. The next one? Lyles, .052.

      how does that rebuke the argument that half the lottery at least sucks?

    45. Z-man

      Bruno, no one is arguing that they have been goos so far, only that they are way too young to label as busts. Why are you so defensive on that point?

    46. BigBlueAL

      It’s not about DS Jr looking good against Summer League opponents, it’s the fact that he was good enough in college that statistically he profiled as a Top 5 pick and he has shown that in Summer League. It’s just proof of why people liked him before the draft. Plus he is just 9 months older than Frank so it’s not like he is a finished product, he has just as much room to grow as a player as Frank does.

      Hopefully they both pan out and both Knicks and Mavs fans will be happy with their draft pick but it will suck if DS Jr turns out to be a pretty good player and Frank doesn’t considered they were drafted right after each other and alot of Knicks fans wanted DS Jr.

    47. Z-man

      The term “bust” should only be applied to guys who were drafted really high and became fringe players or worse, like Bennett, Thabeet, Bargnani, MCW, Beasley, etc.

      You can say that there is concern about the guys you mentioned, but it’s far too early to tell.

    48. Bruno Almeida

      MCW was the 11th pick.

      How am I being defensive, by not conceding that I still believe my argument makes sense? I didn’t start this, you guys did when you took offense to me saying half the lottery of 2014 busts could already be labeled busts.

      Of course they can all improve, they could be the next 2003 draft class for all we know.

      I just dislike the argument that every young player will improve or is inherently capable of substantial improvement. Some, if not most, will never improve, whether they’re 20 or 28.

      Of course it’s too early to say for sure, but hey, I never said they were busts for sure; all I said was some of them could already be considered busts in my opinion.

    49. The Glass Half Rebuilt

      CJ McCollum is trying to recruit Melo to Portland. That would be excellent for us because Dame, McCollum, and Melo would win like 43 games and we’d have two top 20 picks AND Moe Harkless.

    50. Z-man

      Thanks for attempting to clarify your position. I still think the 2015 draft will go down as one of the deepest in the last 20 years and that most of the lottery picks will have good NBA careers.

    51. Donnie Walsh

      Donnie, please re-read my posts.

      I did. You said the 2015 draft was underwhelming, which I think is premature.

      And, yes, some of the lottery selections have been underwhelming, but that doesn’t make them busts.

      4 +.100 WS/48 players in the lottery is actually pretty good for a draft class. 2014 has one (Embiid); 2016 only has two ( Poeltl, Maker). Point is: these guys are young and will get better.

    52. Bruno Almeida

      I mean, 2014 was a pretty underwhelming class too hahaha.

      The whole argument started when z-man was saying Mudiay was as hyped in 2015 as Ball and Fultz have been this year… the underwhelming part was part of a post I’ve made about how there were never solid reasons to believe Mudiay to be as good of a prospect as Ball and Fultz, and the fact that 6 teams passed on him in an underwhelming (lottery, ok) year was proof that he wasn’t held to such high standards, it was mostly just fan hype.

      I think Russell in particular still has a lot of room to grow and I think he’ll get a lot better on the Nets, but frankly, I dont see many other guys on that list who’ll ever be great NBA players. Just an opinion, ofc.

    53. nicos

      Who the heck knows how Frank is going to wind up playing? He’s never played against anything like NBA competition. He averaged 5 points and 1.5 assists a game in a mid-level French league. He’s got great size for a point but he’s never really played the point- At least with DSJ you had a year of watching him actually play point in a good conference plus there are plenty of grown-ass men playing in the summer league and he’s doing just fine there. As for age, I don’t see any advantage of taking a 18 year old over a 19 or 20 year old. 19/20 year old guys are still likely to improve and you have a better shot of getting more value out of their rookie contract as they’re probably going to be a bit more physically ready for the NBA. Frank may wind up being the better player but saying he’s going to be the best player on the Knicks in 5 years before he’s played a second against NBA-caliber talent is crazy.

    54. d-mar

      I think if you want to see most likely where Ball will end up in his prime watch Teodosic this year with the Clippers.

      I’d prefer not to. I’m still pissed we didn’t take a flyer on Teodosic, who I think could be a combination of Rubio and Prigs and a lot of fun to watch.

    55. Totes McGoats

      Fultz will be a nice player but I don’t see him as a transformative talent. His team not winning is a concern and overall he reminds me of Russel coming out of college.

      I may be in the minority on this one, but I think Philly will be a good team this season. Not good with backcourt depth, but if Bayless is healthy they will have a decent backcourt rotation of Fultz/Redick/McConnell/Bayless. Up front they need to move Okafor for a banger, but that should be easy. They will regret giving up Grant, but it shouldn’t matter with Simmons in tow. I would start him at one of the forward spots, preferrably PF and let Fultz have the PG spot. As weak as the EC is, they could make the playoffs if everyone stays healthy. Unfortunately, health is a big “if” for Philly. A real big if

    56. Z-man

      If Fultz and Ball came out in that draft, Towns for sure would have been taken ahead of them, and possibly others. Four of the first 6 players picked were big men. There wan’t a single big man in this draft on the hype level of Towns or Okafor. The doubts on Mudiay largely stemmed from lack of info, since he was not only playing overseas but got hurt and missed lots of games. But he was super-hyped, there’s no doubt about it.

    57. Bruno Almeida

      that’s one way to see it.

      me, I think the hype around Mudiay was because of lack of info.

      and I’m pretty damn sure Ball and Fultz would be 2 and 3 in that draft, no doubt about it.

    58. nygrec

      I still like how you guys are still hyping up Teodosic. He will tank as an NBA starter and I can guarantee you that. He may be a great passer and a fine shooter but his defense is lacking. Plus athleticism isn’t a big strength of his. And in a 82 game schedule we’re he will regularly go against faster and stronger PGs, the weaknesses will be uncovered.

    59. plenty

      There’s more hair splitting going on here than a divorce hearing.

      Every player regardless of age is able to improve their game – it’s kind of silly to assume you know which ones are and are not going to make improvements, especially when there’s plenty of guys who improve later in their careers. It doesn’t really matter whether you call them busts or not, though I do think it’s an overly critical label for a draft class that hasn’t even played three seasons yet.

    60. Ben R

      I wasn’t hyping Teodosic, though I still think he’s going to be a great offensive player in the NBA. I was simply comparing Ball.

      I think best case scenario Ball is only a bad defender and not a complete and total disaster. Offensively he will be fine, probably really good, but he was a defensive liability in the NCAA in the pros he will abused. He is a much more offensively skilled Greivis Vasquez.

    61. Z-man

      RIP Bob Wolff, who I listened to many times over the years. Truly great broadcasting legacy.

    62. geo

      so finally the truth to the Phil firing comes out – he sucked as a shit shield for dolan…

      12 million just don’t get you much these days…

      so, as of now our starting five: baker, hardaway jr., melo, kp, and willy…

      off the bench: koq, lee, frank, dotson, someone tall…

      that ought to be good for a solid 33 to 37 wins next year…

      over and under for different starting lineups by the all star break: 18…

    63. er

      I love how the same people keep trying to downplay Smith Jr. And hype up Frank. They both can be good. But we have seen Smith play well against NBA type comp and have not seen frank play at all.

      Funny

    64. Bruno Almeida

      if that was directed at me, well, I’m not trying to hype up anyone, you can maintain your thoughts that the Knicks made the wrong pick fine.

      it’s just bizarre to see people thinking teams like Clemson or Wake Forest or random D-Leaguers in the summer league are so incredibly superior to professional players in the French league or u18 European national team players just because they happen to be in the USA, that’s all.

    65. Totes McGoats

      I’m actually kinda torn on the whole Melo issue. Part of me wants him traded because of the hold that he has on the organization. And part of me doesn’t want him traded because he takes scoring pressure off of KP. So, for me the question is- are we ready for a KP/TH2/Willy pecking order? More specifically, are TH2 and Willy ready for these new roles? Out of those 3, who would be the 2nd option- Willy or TH2? Both guys should thrive with a post presence, so should Willy be the 2nd option? I’m anxious to see how it works out with those 3 taking the shots.

      As far as Melo goes, he is holding the team hostage..again. He did it as a Nugget, now he’s doing it as a Knick. I’m not mad at him for using the power of the NTC to tell the team he’s only willing to go to 2 teams. Phil shouldn’t have given it to him. But I am mad at him for not realizing that he won’t even sniff the playoffs as a Knick at this stage of his career. In his defense, family is a hard thing to move away from for work. But at the same time, his family’s straight financially, so that part he doesn’t hafta worry about. Whether he stays in NY or not, he’s gonna be away frome home alot, so winning should be higher up on his list of priorities if that’s something he truly cares about. It’s not an easy decision by any stretch, but shouldn’t an arguably HOF caliber player WANT to win?

      He should expand his list of preferable destinations. OKC getting Paul George hurt because I thought that would be a good landing spot for Melo. If he wants to play playoff ball and still be close to home, then he should consider Washington and Philly. All things considered, I really think Houston is the best spot for him with the moves they are making. Luc Mbah a Moute is a great signing for them and makes them more versatile defensively. In he and Tucker, they should be able to mask some of Melo’s defensive deficiencies quite well. Send Melo to em and take back Anderson, Ariza, and 2 firsts.

    66. Totes McGoats

      *continued*
      If Houston wants to win, that is CLEARLY their best shot at beating the Dubs, so they should definitely consider it

    67. Totes McGoats

      I would take Anderson back because Perry should be able to trade him to a contender looking for a hired gun for their playoff run at the deadline. Teams like OKC, Washington, Detroit, Clips, Portland, etc.

    68. rama

      And almost no one was pining for Turner, mainly due to worries about his weird gait.

      Z-Man, Owen wanted him, and I was high on him too. Ranked him fourth. I wanted WCS, but am happy we have Porzingis. Still think WCS could be a great player on the right team.

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