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Friday, August 18, 2017

Knicks Morning News (2017.07.15)

  • [SNY Knicks] Knicks announce five-year deal with new GM Scott Perry
    (Friday, July 14, 2017 5:35:49 PM)

    The Knicks will send a 2019 second round draft pick and cash considerations to the Kings in exchange for hiring former Kings vice president of basketball operations Scott Perry as their GM.

  • [SNY Knicks] Knicks name Steve Mills team president
    (Friday, July 14, 2017 5:40:22 PM)

    Mills had been running the day-to-day operations of the Knicks in an interim capacity since the team parted ways with Phil Jackson.

  • [SNY Knicks] Carmelo Anthony ‘dismayed’ after Knicks pause trade talks
    (Friday, July 14, 2017 2:00:27 PM)

    The Knicks put the talks with the Houston Rockets and Cleveland Cavaliers on hold on Thursday.

  • [NYPost] Knicks digging out of a mess that has been years in the making
    (Friday, July 14, 2017 7:03:42 PM)

    It started to come crashing down three days before the start of the 2013-14 training camp. The Knicks were coming off the Eastern Conference’s second seed and a 54-28 record. General manager Glen Grunwald had put the final touches on a roster everyone thought would compete for the Eastern Conference title. And suddenly, owner James…

  • [NYPost] Scott Perry joins Knicks just in time for Carmelo verdict
    (Friday, July 14, 2017 12:24:03 PM)

    The Knicks removed two of the myriad offseason issues virtually burying them Friday, when they officially named Steve Mills president to continue erasing Phil Jackson’s wretched mess. Mills then proclaimed Scott Perry, formerly Sacramento’s vice president of basketball operations, the new general manager. The moves were announced by team owner James Dolan in a press…

  • [NY Newsday] Chris Paul won’t bite on Carmelo Anthony-to-Rockets trade speculation
    (Friday, July 14, 2017 11:41:00 PM)

    New Rockets point guard Chris Paul passed on a question about Carmelo Anthony during his introductory news conference Friday.

  • [NY Newsday] Knicks officially hire Scott Perry as GM, promote Steve Mills to president
    (Friday, July 14, 2017 9:50:47 PM)

    The Knicks have named their president and general manager, but only one of them is new to the organization.

  • [ESPN] Knicks tap Perry as GM, cite ‘culture change’
    (Friday, July 14, 2017 1:17:54 PM)

    Knicks tap Perry as GM, cite ‘culture change’

  • [NYDN] Chris Paul hit with Carmelo trade questions at Rockets presser
    (Friday, July 14, 2017 9:39:44 PM)

    Chris Paul can’t get away from the ongoing Melo drama.

  • [NYDN] Scott Perry agrees to 5-year deal as Knicks GM, Mills named prez
    (Friday, July 14, 2017 9:38:36 PM)

    Scott Perry’s contract to become the Knicks’ new general manager will take him into the next decade.

  • [NYDN] Knicks want to pause after leading Melo to believe he’s leaving
    (Friday, July 14, 2017 9:36:21 PM)

    Melo doesn’t know if he’s going or staying mostly because the Knicks continue to send mixed messages and change directions almost daily.

  • [NYDN] Kristaps Porzingis shows off weight room gains on Instagram
    (Friday, July 14, 2017 9:51:57 AM)

    It’s clear that the Knicks signed Kristaps Porzingis for his brawn and not his brains.

  • 152 comments on “Knicks Morning News (2017.07.15)

    1. Frank

      The narratives around the Melo almost-trade are so strange now.

      Isola of all people is saying that Melo’s really mad right now that the Knicks have paused trade talks. Rachel Nichols is saying that Melo “doesn’t owe the Knicks anything”. Since when was it the Knicks job to make sure Melo is happy in trade? It’s the Knicks’ job to make sure that any trade we make is in the best interests of the team.

      Bottom line – we have no idea what sort of return we were supposed to get with the previous trade scenarios. If the trade didn’t bring us flexibility, picks, or young players in some combination, and would give us more negative than positive assets, then we can’t do it. We can’t do it no matter how much Melo wants to play with his buddies and how close to the finish line the trade scenarios were.

    2. Zanzibar

      Phil didn’t want Melo and was putting pressure on him to waive his NTC to play for a better team so Knicks could follow more of a rebuild. Melo didn’t want to leave New York but his brand was suffering; he looked like a player who really didn’t care much about winning. It would have been difficult for him to stay when the POBO/GM is calling him out every day in the media about that. Phil is all of a sudden fired, Mills & Co are in charge and POOF Melo waives his NTC. WTF? Does anyone really believe Melo had a sudden change of heart? This is all a charade. Melo’s gonna meet with new POBO and GM and say he likes the signing of Hardaway and what he’s heard from the new team blah blah blah and end up staying. Remember it’s Mills who mysteriously dropped out of trade negotiations; the odds are high there was an acceptable deal for Melo there. Melo looks like he does care about winning (though he really doesn’t) because he was ready to waive his NTC and gets to stay in NY. It’s Dolan/Mills CAA at work here yet again.

    3. Brian Cronin

      Since when was it the Knicks job to make sure Melo is happy in trade?

      Well, if they want him to waive the NTC, they have to make sure he’s happy about the trade, right? But yes, if they’re fine not trading him, then they owe him nothing beyond that.

    4. Ntilakilla

      Well, if they want him to waive the NTC, they have to make sure he’s happy about the trade, right?

      But that works both ways. Conversely, if Melo wants us to trade him he needs to make sure we’re happy about the package we receive for him. For despite what media shills like Rachel Nichols will argue we signed Melo to “no trade” clause and not a “trade me wherever I want, whenever I say” clause. If he doesn’t like the pace we’re working at then he expand the list of destinations for us to trade him to or do nothing and STFU as we try to negotiate the best deal for us. Because last time I checked we still do reserve the right to look our for best interests too.

    5. fmikieo

      It’s Dolan/Mills CAA at work here yet again.

      Zanzibar,

      It’s still to be determined whether Perry will actually do deals in this manner. Given the press the man has gotten, one might be inclined to disagree with you.

    6. Bo Nateman

      IMHO, the issue is somewhat intangible. How much does retaining Melo retard the rebuild vs the assets we would ostensibly obtain? It’s not just Melo’s declining performance but the impact of his attitude. Addition by subtraction, if you will. If the newFO is negotiating with both Melo( to get him to expand the scope of his acceptable destinations, to improve what we receive) and Morey ( if his offer is not acceptable, to improve upon it), then FO is acting competently.

    7. The Glass Half Rebuilt

      The funny thing is everyone is expecting the Knicks to just roll over and take Ryan Anderson because Knicks. No matter how miserable Melo may be, I’d rather have him opt out and lose him for nothing than get Ryan Anderson. At least if he leaves we get cap space.

    8. GoldClub

      Wait. Did we give up draft picks to hire Perry??? The asshat statistics denier who up until 6 months ago was destroying the Magic and doesn’t even have basketball authority??????

      Seriously I’m an inch away from giving up my season tickets.

      If the Melo trade isn’t a +trade I am fucking done.

    9. Ntilakilla

      The funny thing is everyone is expecting the Knicks to just roll over and take Ryan Anderson because Knicks. No matter how miserable Melo may be, I’d rather have him opt out and lose him for nothing than get Ryan Anderson. At least if he leaves we get cap space.

      Its like the media is mad the Knicks are not doing another stupid thing they can be killed for. My favorite is this assumption that we owe it to Melo to accommodate him. Its not like he’s under contract or anything.

    10. Ntilakilla

      Wait. Did we give up draft picks to hire Perry???

      We gave up a late 2nd round pick.

    11. Brian Cronin

      Wait. Did we give up draft picks to hire Perry??? The asshat statistics denier who up until 6 months ago was destroying the Magic and doesn’t even have basketball authority??????

      Seriously I’m an inch away from giving up my season tickets.

      If the Melo trade isn’t a +trade I am fucking done.

      A second rounder, but specifically one of those second rounders with so many limitations on it that it is almost guaranteed to be at the end of the second round. That said, yeah, I am not a huge fan of giving up a second rounder either for a guy who had never been a GM before. Typically, promotions don’t require compensation (like Atlanta didn’t have to give up anything to give Travis Schlenk their GM gig since it was a promotion, but Orlando had to give Toronto compensation for hiring Jeff Weltman to a lateral position). So it is annoying, but I guess it is just standard for the Knicks to pay more than everyone else on every transaction.

    12. bockadoo

      Here’s a dumb question. I would think the answer is no because I haven’t seen it mentioned. Can we trade Melo and pay the other team part of his contract? For example, if we paid half, would we open up that much cap space?

    13. stratomatic is despondent

      If the Melo trade isn’t a +trade I am fucking done.

      I’m a fan since the late 60s and I’m getting pretty close to that point myself. I actually got pretty close when they signed Melo. We were on the right path, I was happy, and it was all taken away. Putting Mills back in charge may be the last straw. The first 2 deals were incompetent. As far as I am concerned MSG is infested with rats, snakes, and incompetents. The NY media makes it worse for me because it’s infested with shills and more incompetents.

      I don’t mind losing. I don’t mind some mistakes. They all make them (as my support of Jackson demonstrates). As long as I see forward progress in terms of youth, cap space, upside, high IQ likable players etc… I’m good. I know it takes time. What I can’t take is rooting for players and people I dislike strongly or that I think are sleazeball incompetents.

    14. GoNyGoNyGo

      The Knicks owe Melo nothing. They backed up the Brinks truck and unloaded it at Melo’s doorstep. Dump that kind of cash in front of me and I’ll streak down 5th avenue naked in a blizzard. How Melo “feels” means nothing to me. Nothing at all.

      If I were Perry-Mills, my first objective would be to get Melo to give up his no-trade clause at any cost. The deadline is the trade deadline. If he wants to leave now, it’s negotiable. The message to him is clear:
      “Carmelo, your choices are simple, give it up or endure another full season of embarrassment – you will be the 6th man unless you struggle defensively – we really like this kid Kuz and think he should start. You will suffer ridicule, age ungracefully, risk injury, further destroy your brand and continue to ruin your career. Or, sign this piece of paper and we’ll find you a new home. “

    15. danvt

      Yeah, The Rachel Nichols editorial really pissed me off as well. Melo doesn’t owe the Knicks anything? It’s infuriating. The guy wrecked the team. The melodrama that brought him here wrecked the team. The MaxNTC wrecked the team. The one on one play and contested two point shots wrecked the team. The clock killing wrecked the team. The lack of defense wrecked the team. Submarining coaches wrecked the team. Not playing within the system wrecked the team. Actively undermining Jeremy Lin wrecked the team.

      Now he wants us to just take Ryan Anderson? Fuck him. You’ll play for us buddy. On the bench if you don’t hustle or do what the coach wants. If you want out, how about CHA? Or somewhere else where they’ll give us some value for your poisonous presence. Yes, the Knicks didn’t have to participate in all of this BS and it’s their responsibility but now’s when we have to decide. Will we cave one more time to this malicious asshat or will we finally bring some sanity to our decision making?

      Take all the time you need, Scotty.

    16. ptmilo

      Here’s a dumb question. I would think the answer is no because I haven’t seen it mentioned. Can we trade Melo and pay the other team part of his contract? For example, if we paid half, would we open up that much cap space?

      no, the cap space goes with the player contract. you can pay teams a small amount of cash compensation in deals that is capped every year (I think it is around $5.1m this year), but it does not affect cap space. this year, for exmaple, the clippers paid cash to buy two point guard prospects in the second round: evans and thornwell (who is 22 and probably more NBA-ready than a typical draftee), while we paid cash and a second rounder to buy a GM who was unemployed three months ago.

    17. Donnie Walsh

      Now he wants us to just take Ryan Anderson?

      The thing Anthony probably doesn’t get is that Ryan Anderson is actually better than him. And his elite 3pt shooting is way more valuable to the Rockets than anything Carmelo will bring them.

      Oh, yeah. And the coach-of-the-year there doesn’t even like him. There’s that too.

    18. Bo Nateman

      @15 + 1000

      Perhaps now that Mills is officially in charge and hopefully has some accountability, he recognizes the net negative effect Melo has and the pause is a strategy to rid the team of Melo on better terms.

      Does anyone know about the quality of the Melo-Mills relationship?

    19. danvt

      @15

      POTY

      Wow, shit. Grazi.

      I’m inspired. How about the win now moves that were made to appease our “franchise player”? Aflalo, Williams, Rose, Noah, BARGNANI. How many times could we have rebuilt? He killed Donnie Walsh, a veteran team builder who was cowed into submission when we gave up multiple assets. HE KILLED PHIL JACKSON, who now is being pilloried in the press when his mission was to build around Carmelo.

      Carmelo never has been a franchise player. He’s a beta dog. He would look great in a HOU uniform. They can survive his nightly 6-14 (until GSW in the playoffs). Fool me once shame on you, fool me over and over and I’m the New York Knicks.

      Let’s just get this one right. I say keep him. No trade unless we win.

    20. GoNyGoNyGo

      @20 – You seem to be giving Mills a pass. How long has he been with the Knicks now? Is he the solution or a huge part of the problem? I’m not there in the rooms with these guys. How could I possibly know?

      Phil Jackson was fired June 28. Scott Perry was hired July 14. That’s just over 2 weeks where he could do things on his own. What did he do (from Spotrac)?
      #1 – Tim Hardaway Jr. signed a 4 year / $70,950,000 contract with the New York Knicks, including $70,950,000 guaranteed, and an annual average salary of $17,737,500. In 2017-18, Hardaway Jr. will earn a base salary of $16,500,000, while carrying a cap hit of $16,500,000 and a dead cap value of $70,950,000.

      #2 – Ron Baker signed a 2 year / $8,872,400 contract with the New York Knicks, including $8,872,400 guaranteed, and an annual average salary of $4,436,200. In 2017-18, Baker will earn a base salary of $4,328,000, while carrying a cap hit of $4,328,000 and a dead cap value of $8,872,400.

      In 2 weeks he did his best to cripple the Knicks.

    21. stratomatic is despondent

      You seem to be giving Mills a pass. How long has he been with the Knicks now?

      In 2 weeks he did his best to cripple the Knicks.

      Mills is one of the constants in the cesspool of controversy and incompetence that is the NY Knicks.

      He’s probably not even a good person.

      “In November 2005, he learned that Garden president Steve Mills had allegedly told Brown Sanders that Thomas would float rumors of she and Nix were having an affair if she pursued sexual harassment charges against the Garden. “I was angry,” Nix told jurors. “I said Steve Mills is a f—ing liar.”

    22. Ntilakilla

      Danvt is on fiyah. I am just sick and tired of the expectation that the Knicks should kiss Melo’s ass for wanting to play for us as if he did us a charity.

    23. freethrow

      Would be ironic if phil (who drafted well IMO) was fired because of a buyout that will happen anyways because there’s no good teams with assets that melo will wave to go to because of phils mistake of a ntc.

    24. 2FOR18, understands math

      I just checked out a Rockets blog (dream shake, or something like that), and the consensus is they’d like to have Melo but don’t want to give more than Anderson.
      This is pretty much my take on melo’s value. He’d be a nice luxury to have on a contender, but you wouldn’t still be a contender if you gave up real value for him.
      So if melo really wants to leave and the Knicks want anything decent in return, melo is going to have to fully waive his NTC (thanks Phil!) so he can be traded to a team with some young players/picks that isn’t a big free agent destination (Charlotte, Utah, Philly, Sacto).

    25. ClashFan

      I’m sorry, but I couldn’t get past the phrase “culture change” in Dolan’s statement. As long as he and Mills are in charge, there is no true culture change. There really wasn’t during Phil’s watch, either, for whatever reason.

      It’s like they let angry old grandpa drive the car for awhile, but now he’s been dropped off at the nursing home.

      I wonder what KP and his brother are thinking about all this? The media will continue to paint the Knicks as the villain vs. Melo. Really, they need to move him before training camp starts.

    26. thenoblefacehumper

      Rondo on a one year deal to New Orleans. I know a lot of people hated the idea, but with a one year deal there would’ve been literally no risk whatsoever and it’s possible he could’ve been really good for Porzingis.

      I guess we’re really doing this Ron Baker at point guard thing. Another year of no development, a thoroughly uninteresting team, and being just good enough to miss the elite prospects. Knicks gonna Knick.

    27. Boriqua3

      “I guess we’re really doing this Ron Baker at point guard thing. Another year of no development, a thoroughly uninteresting team, and being just good enough to miss the elite prospects. Knicks gonna Knick”

      How so? Rajon Rondo was the answer to development and interesting? Come on now…
      Knicks, feel free to have fun and blunder up. Maybe an Aaron Judge type will reveal himself

    28. stratomatic is despondent

      Would be ironic if phil (who drafted well IMO) was fired because of a buyout that will happen anyways because there’s no good teams with assets that melo will wave to go to because of phils mistake of a ntc.

      Phil had to have some insight from when he was already trying to gauge the market at the deadline. If he knew he could get something worthwhile, there would be no reason to go to Dolan and suggest a buyout as a reasonable alternative.

      He screwed up with the NTC. He asked Melo to give up some money in his new contract. So tossing in that NTC clause probably didn’t seem like much of a big deal. At that time he did not think it was going to come into play. He (like Karl and D’Antoni) overestimated his ability to get Melo to buy into what he was trying to do and how he wanted him to play. It came back to bite him.

    29. kevin5318

      Another year of no development, a thoroughly uninteresting team, and being just good enough to miss the elite prospects. Knicks gonna Knick.

      We’ll be in the mix I think. The defense probably improves but the offense probably nosedives going from Rose/Jennings to Baker/Frank. We’ll sign a vet PG but whoever it is will probably be good for the tank anyways.

    30. thenoblefacehumper

      How so? Rajon Rondo was the answer to development and interesting? Come on now…

      The singular answer? No, of course not. Would it have been nice to have a point guard who can do some of the things a point guard is supposed to do? Yeah, I think so. I have no idea what the objections to a one year deal possibly could be.

    31. ClashFan

      There’s a reason that Rondo is virtually unwanted in the NBA (reportedly only 2 teams, the Lakers and Pelicans, were pursuing him as a backup). He’s regularly one and done with teams now (even sooner with Dallas). He apparently goes rogue on offense and won’t listen to his coaches. He sulks and worse when he’s pulled.

      He’s going to NO to backup Jrue because Boogie Cousins wanted him. Think about that. No one wanted him as a starter.

      Apparently the young players liked him in Chicago last year b/c he would spend time after practice working with them. That’s nice, but a good assistant coach should be willing to do that. Hire Sasha to do that as a coach. If he’s such a good mentor, why didn’t rebuilding Chicago keep him? Heck, if the Knicks were to hire him as an assistant coach, that might be fine, but not as a player. He makes Rose look positively cheery!
      :-)

      The first time he would have shot an icy stare at Hornacek after being pulled for ignoring a play call would have been one too many…

    32. Bruno Almeida

      I think there’s no plausible reason to believe KP would develop better with Rondo than with literally anyone at the PG position.

      it’s on him to do it, and partly on Hornacek to build a competent scheme where he’s put into position to succeed.

      many players have developed to be stars despite terrible PG play in their teams, and I think we as a fanbase have to stop treating him as this unique snowflake that gets a pass because his team is shit.

      but or course the Knicks will trade for Bledsoe or Knight or some other overrated dude and it’s gonna suck.

    33. Bruno Almeida

      btw, Marvin Bagley is rumoured to be reclassifying so he could go to college and join the 2018 draft… another huge potential star.

    34. er

      The thing Anthony probably doesn’t get is that Ryan Anderson is actually better than him. And his elite 3pt shooting is way more valuable to the Rockets than anything Carmelo will bring them.

      Oh, yeah. And the coach-of-the-year there doesn’t even like him. There’s that too.

      Uh no. Melo is a far superior player. He could shoot 40% on open threes plus more.

      Fucking Knicks fans are blinded by hate…..

      This is why I want him to leave. Muffuckas….tryna say Ryan Anderson is better. Lmao

    35. Ntilakilla

      The lack of a PG may actually force this team to share the ball within a system and allow movement off the ball to create scoring opportunities in finding the open man. I do believe KP, Willy, and Frank are unselfish players who can play within that system.

    36. Ntilakilla

      Are they good?

      Is Melo? Look at his WS/48 since turning 30 three years ago and get back to me.

    37. thenoblefacehumper

      Uh no. Melo is a far superior player. He could shoot 40% on open threes plus more.

      Fucking Knicks fans are blinded by hate

      See, you might think this, but there’s not actually any evidence for it. Getting this mad at someone for going with what objective statistics say instead of what Melo fan fiction says is being blinded by love.

    38. er

      Is Melo? Look at his WS/48 since turning 30 three years ago and get back to me

      Yea….look at the infrastructure also

    39. Ntilakilla

      Mello’s WS/48 average the past three years .102 (6,496 minutes).
      Ryan Anderson’s WS/48 average the past three years .103 (5,799 minutes).

      Just saying…

    40. er

      Melo would be a worse 3rd option than Ryan Anderson is the most ridiculous thing I’ve heard in. A while.

      Yeah Ras…Ryan is better. You right.

    41. Ntilakilla

      Yea….look at the infrastructure also

      You mean the infrastructure that includes a .102 WS/48 as its star player? That infrastructure?

    42. kevin5318

      Melo is a much better fit vs the Warriors death lineup. I’m gonna go the RuRu route and say his advanced metrics would go up playing off of Harden and CP3.

      He’s already a superior spot up shooter to Anderson with him being in the 93rd percentile and Anderson in the 87th.

    43. 2FOR18, understands math

      @40, you’re never going to get it wrt melo. Whether he could should open 3s at 40% is the whole freaking point. He refused to take on that role under D’Antoni. He refuses to do anything other than demand the ball where he wants it .
      I’m sure there are all kinds of things melo the baller can do, but he doesn’t. You need an intervention on melo or something.

    44. 2FOR18, understands math

      Wait a minute er. You’re ripping on the Knicks’ infrastructure now? The same infrastructure that, in your words, = top 5 talent in the East?

    45. Bruno Almeida

      Melo is clearly a better player in what he could do, not in what he has done lately for the Knicks.

      it’s the same old argument, Melo trying on defense / less iso more shooting in rhythm with the offense = good.

      but that’s the hypothesis. There are very strong indications that this Melo is never appearing again.

    46. er

      Wait a minute er. You’re ripping on the Knicks’ infrastructure now? The same infrastructure that, in your words, = top 5 talent in the East?

      Yes the Knicks were a two seed with dolan

    47. er

      @40, you’re never going to get it wrt melo. Whether he could should open 3s at 40% is the whole freaking point. He refused to take on that role under D’Antoni. He refuses to do anything other than demand the ball where he wants it .
      I’m sure there are all kinds of things melo the baller can do, but he doesn’t. You need an intervention on melo or something.

      When has Melo played with someone like Harden or CP3?

    48. DRed

      Could Melo on the Rockets be better than Ryan Anderson? I think so. Will he be? I don’t know.

    49. er

      Melo is a much better fit vs the Warriors death lineup. I’m gonna go the RuRu route and say his advanced metrics would go up playing off of Harden and CP3.

      He’s already a superior spot up shooter to Anderson with him being in the 93rd percentile and Anderson in the 87th.

      Bu Bu But Ryan Anderson….LOL. clowns.

    50. er

      I’m not gonna argue hypothetical anymore . Melo<Ryan Anderson.

      It is what it is. Wake me when the season starts, whatever.

    51. Jack Bauer

      Melo is better than Ryan Anderson.
      I get the Melo hate but let’s at least stick to some connection to reality.

      If getting a first round pick back means they have to take Anderson, then getting Bledsoe and Harkless might be a better route to consider. I like the idea of telling Morey what the Knicks want and making him do the leg work. The likelihood of success goes up exponentially vs. having the Knicks FO trying to set it up.

    52. stratomatic is despondent

      I think a lot of the debates about Melo stem from one side evaluating his skills and talents and the other evaluating his actual production on the court.

      For example, I’m a big Gallo fan. I would readily admit that Melo is the more talented and skilled player. The thing is, if I had my choice I’d WAY rather have Gallo on my team. Gallo knows what he can and cannot do. He stays within his circle of competence. He shoots 3s, gets to the foul line a LOT, looks for easy buckets, and MOVES THE BALL when there’s nothing there for him. That may mean he’ll score a little less than he would if he tried to create more, but he comes close to maximizes his production given his talent and ability.

      Melo can do more things fairly well, but he’s constantly holding the ball and forcing himself into bad shots or trying to create shots that are not there. So at the end of the day, even though he’s the better player he generates less value.

      IMO, there’s no doubt that Melo is a way more skilled player than Anderson (as is Gallo). But like Gallo, Anderson generally stays within his narrow circle of competence and winds up being productive enough that you can actually debate who Houston would be better off with.

      If Melo would accept a role where he’s 3rd option, spot up shoots, and extends that to creating when he’s in single coverage with a mismatch, he’d probably be more productive. However, as someone once said, it’s probably foolish to think he’ll “change his stripes”.

    53. rama

      “the odds are high there was an acceptable deal for Melo there.”

      What’s your source? How do you know?

    54. kevin5318

      If Melo would accept a role where he’s 3rd option, spot up shoots, and extends that to creating when he’s in single coverage with a mismatch, he’d probably me more productive. However, as someone once said, it’s probably foolish to think he’ll “change his stripes”.

      We might find out soon enough if this is true. I think he’ll have trouble deferring to his best friend(who is the perfect personality to keep Melo in line) and another Olympic teammate who he has a good relationship with. Going from the Rose, Felton and Calderon to CP3/Harden will put an end to the Melo with a PG debate.

    55. er

      @63 very fair assessment. I want to see Melo in a role where he’s the 3rd option. See how he does. That’s why I wanna see him in Houston

    56. Jack Bauer

      Think Olympic Melo playing with Paul and Harden. I actually think he will defer somewhat to those guys and fit in nicely on offense. He’ll also provide scoring when Harden goes to the bench. Defense is another story, but the bar is set pretty low as Anderson is incompetent on that side of the ball too.

    57. stratomatic is despondent

      Going from the Rose, Felton and Calderon to CP3/Harden will put an end to the Melo with a PG debate.

      I’m not sure it’s totally about him having a PG (though CP3 would help anyone). It’s what happens when you give him the ball with 15 seconds on the clock.

      Does he hold it, survey the landscape, and create a tough shot late in the clock off the dribble or does he try to create for others and move the ball immediately if he’s got nothing easy?

    58. kevin5318

      I’m a fan of Melo but he is frustrating as hell to root for sometimes with his ball stopping. If he doesn’t conform to the Rockets play style then he’ll be killed in the media and deserve every second of it.

    59. GoNyGoNyGo

      Melo is better than Ryan Anderson.

      Agree and disagree.

      Can someone have talent but be a net negative? Melo is. He can score like no other. On a team like the Cavs or the Rockets, with other dominant players, he will become a second or third option. If he is the first option, like with the Knicks, he sucks the life out of a team. See post #15. He can be great and a cancer.

    60. Cock Jowles, Not a Knicks Fan Because Fuck This Team

      If he doesn’t conform to the Rockets play style then he’ll be killed in the media and deserve every second of it.

      “”‘If I didn’t play the way how I played, I wouldn’t have gotten no max contract. They can talk about whatever they wanna talk about me, because I got maxed. I’m a max player. Don’t get mad at me, because I’m telling you what’s real. One plus one is two, all day long, and it’s never gonna change. And that’s factorial.’

      -Stephon Marbury”

      -Carmelo Anthony”

    61. Zanzibar

      Phil had to have some insight from when he was already trying to gauge the market at the deadline. If he knew he could get something worthwhile, there would be no reason to go to Dolan and suggest a buyout as a reasonable alternative.

      Yes there would be a reason – Melo told Phil he wanted to stay in NY and wouldn’t waive his NTC. That left Phil no option but to pursue a buyout. And what changed is CP3 joined the Rockets leading Morey to want Melo to go for it in the next 2 years. Morey didn’t want Melo and Melo didn’t want Houston at the trade deadline.

      BTW someone will argue that CP3 in Houston changed Melo’s position on waiving his NTC to go there. The flaw in that argument is that Melo also offered to waive it to go to Cavs and nothing had changed there. This is all a charade. That 2-yard line deal is there. Mills strangely stops negotiations. Melo to talk to new management team. Guess what happens next?

      And BTW anyone who thinks Perry will have any say in what happens to Melo has been in a coma for the last 8 years.

    62. thenoblefacehumper

      There’s barely any point in debating if Melo would be better than [insert name of lower usage, more efficient player here] if all of the sudden he woke up and decided to radically alter his shot distribution. I mean, how do we know Anderson/Gallo/whoever are taking the perfect shots for their own efficiencies? Seems unfair to give Melo some hypothetical boost while assuming they’d just stay the same if we’re going to pretend everyone is willing to take the most optimal shots.

      It’s true that if Anderson or whoever tried to score as much as Melo, they’d almost definitely have worse efficiency numbers than him. But that they don’t try to do that should be a point in their favor, and Melo’s insistence on playing in a way that hurts his efficiency should be a point against him.

    63. Bruno Almeida

      one quick anecdote:

      I have a friend who’s an incredible pianist. Really, he got invites from pretty much every major orchestra and some really big bands around here to play for them, he got invited to go to France, Germany and Japan to play… yet, he fancies himself a singer and insists on writing and recording shitty songs that have led him nowhere. He says he hates playing the piano in a classical environment, yet gets pissed because nobody listens to his own songs.

      He’s extremely talented. Nobody cares.

      I’m all for him using his talents however he wants; but every time I hear him talking about how everyone’s stupid for not liking his songs, I keep thinking to myself: it’s not about how talented you are, it’s about how you use your talents.

    64. Zanzibar

      the odds are high there was an acceptable deal for Melo there.

      What’s your source? How do you know?

      From all of the reporting since this started (much of it from reputable sources who reported it was a done deal) and that we’re able to piece together more or less what happened.

      It may surprise some people to learn that Anderson is 29yo, makes 19m/yr, and has similar advanced catch-all metrics (better TS, eFG) to Timmy who’s 25 yo and makes 17m/yr (trade kicker) for the next 4 years. McCollum is Portland’s SG so Crabbe (who’s making 19m/yr) has gotta play SF. But then they have Harkless there who’s making 10m/yr. It’s not unreasonable for them to be looking at a Lillard/McCollum/Crabbe/Anderson/Nurkic lineup OR Lillard/McCollum/Harkless/Anderson/Nurkic. Yes the first lineup would be terrible on D but it would light it up on offense and might be more fun for the fans to watch. Bottom Line: Maybe Blazers don’t view Anderson as an onerous albatross contract.

      Reporting’s been before this trade ever started that Knicks were interested in Harkless. In the original 3-team trade, it’s likely NYK were taking Leonard and Houston 2020 pick, Hartenstein, Qi, KOQ, 2nd round picks would be divided among NYK and Blazers. So maybe, just to give an example, Portland gets KOQ and Hartenstein and Knicks gets Houston 2020 pick. That type of deal was reported basically done but then Mills say Knicks don’t want Leonard so a 4th team is sought. The 4th team doesn’t have to be a team with cap; it could be a team that’s willing to take Leonard but in a trade where it unloads a 6m/yr player on a 2 year deal it doesn’t want (who Morey takes) and 4th team gets sweetener like a draft pick. It shouldn’t have been that difficult to find a team to do that.

      That deals on the 2 yard line …wut?…Mills halts negotiations, wants to talk about Melo staying as a Knick. What do you think is really happening?

    65. JK47

      I want Melo out of here because he played like a fucking dog last year. He didn’t give a shit on defense, he didn’t rebound and he didn’t get assists. He played like a caricature of himself. The previous year when he was “Dad Melo” and at least tried to play team ball, he was at least passable. But he sucked last year. His attitude sucked and his play sucked. I don’t want Ryan Anderson’s contract, but I’d be fine if the Knicks were able to move Melo for pennies on the dollar. I’m not really interested in how good he could be, or whether he’s better than Ryan Anderson, or whether or not he’d be good as a third option or any of that crap. On this team, he’s pretty fucking bad and he’s a sunk cost, and just like many people here said, he’s an albatross going into year four of that horrible contract. If they can’t get assets back for him, then oh well, too bad. I’m just sick of watching him to be honest.

    66. Z-man

      E-ric BLED-soe! (Clap, clap, clap clap clap) E-ric BLED-soe! (Clap, Clap, clap clap clap…)

    67. Ntilakilla

      That deals on the 2 yard line …wut?…Mills halts negotiations, wants to talk about Melo staying as a Knick. What do you think is really happening?

      This…

      According to a source close to trade talks with the Rockets, the Knicks, with no deal on the table with Houston that makes sense, are hitting the reset button. They are regrouping, and have stalled talks with Houston general manager Daryl Morey.

      According to the source, Knicks acting president Steve Mills wants to meet with Anthony to see where his head is at before proceeding any further.

      The primary hope, according to the source, is Anthony decides to open up his wish list beyond the Rockets and Cavaliers, as he has a no-trade clause. The Celtics would’ve been in play, but they traded for Gordon Hayward.

    68. Zanzibar

      The primary hope, according to the source, is Anthony decides to open up his wish list beyond the Rockets and Cavaliers, as he has a no-trade clause.

      They couldn’t have continued negotiations and talked to Melo at the same time? It’s more plausible to me that a deal was near where Mills would get what he wanted and he therefore had to put the kibosh on further negotiations. Just because that is what the source has been told by NYK doesn’t mean that is the real reason. It’s what the Knicks want to put out there. But Mills would never lie, right?

    69. Ntilakilla

      They couldn’t have continued negotiations and talked to Melo at the same time?

      With who? If you read the passage carefully you’d see the Knicks FO want Melo to expand the list of teams he’d be willing to play for because they don’t like what Houston or Cleveland is offering them. But they can’t talk to anyone else until Melo gives them the signal that a trade elsewhere is possible.

    70. Zanzibar

      With who?

      Houston, Portland, 4th team. It’s more plausible to me that a deal was near where Mills would get what he *wanted* and he therefore had to halt further negotiations.

    71. Ntilakilla

      Houston, Portland, 4th team.

      The Knicks already talked to Houston. The whole point of stalling talks is that the Knicks don’t like their offer and want Melo’s permission to speak to other potential trade suitors they can move him to. I don’t understand what’s so hard to understand here.

    72. Ntilakilla

      And, no, its not more plausible that Houston is giving us a legitimate deal. Morey has to find a way to dump Ryan Anderson’s shitty contract on someone to take Melo on without giving up anyone of their core guys. The one possibility that’s been mentioned is Portland but they also have their own shitty contract to move out that we don’t want to accept. That’s why we have to engage in these ridiculous 4 way talks that make it almost impossible for every side to get what they want.

    73. nicos

      I think there’s a pretty decent chance Melo works out in Houston. There are four years of Olympic Melo so there’s at least a bit of a track record of him being fine with playing off of the ball- it’s not like you have to say “hey remember that one time Melo was fine being the third option?” He’s done it already when surrounded by star players. If it was just Harden there I’d say no way but with the both Harden and Paul there Melo isn’t going to have a lot of choice. He may still just run to his spot and refuse to budge but I doubt it- if anyone can get Melo to play right it’s Paul. The real question is what does he have left in the tank- he’s still a very good spot up shooter so I think he’ll be fine.

    74. Zanzibar

      The Knicks already talked to Houston. The whole point of stalling talks is that the Knicks don’t like their offer and want Melo’s permission to speak to other potential trade suitors they can move him to. I don’t understand what’s so hard to understand here.

      Why do you presume the Knicks were getting a bad offer when all of the signs were they were gonna get a nice deal here?

    75. latke

      Let’s say we had the 10th pick in the 2015 draft in addition to #4 and that Bargnani’s contract ran through 2017/18. How would y’all have felt if in summer 2015 Phil packaged that #10 pick with AB to get cap space and the used the money to sign Robin Lopez?

    76. Zanzibar

      What signs are that? The last I heard about the deal was that Portland wasn’t going to make a deal unless someone took Myers Leonard.

      And the effort had started to find a 4th team willing to Leonard’s contract (on the 2 yard line?). Why halt negotiations at this stage when you’re on the verge of getting what you want unless you really don’t want any kind of deal? It’s true 4-way deals are often complex in terms of cap stuff but this one’s very straightforward. Here TAKE A LOOK.

    77. Ntilakilla

      @84

      If this is true, and it seems the media consensus agrees, then its imperative we extract maximum value from Houston if a deal is made. It would be utterly foolish for us to take on a shit contract for the greater glory of Melo, James Harden, Chris Paul and the Rockets franchise. Personally, I’d rather Melo rot on our bench than have to take on Ryan Anderson’s or some other scrub’s contract so he can finally decide to play like a team championship player. Let them pay dearly if he’s so valuable. And if they don’t then we’ll see how full of crap they are.

    78. Ntilakilla

      And the effort had started to find a 4th team willing to Leonard’s contract (which was on the 2 yard line). Why halt negotiations at this stage when you’re on the verge of getting what you want?

      But they’re not on the verge of getting what they want. They hit a dead end. No one wants to take Leonard’s contract so all the parties involved can’t move forward. In chess that’s called a stalemate. Do you know what you do in the case of a stalemate? You quit the game, call a draw and start on a new one.

    79. Zanzibar

      But they’re not on the verge of getting what they want. They hit a dead end. No one wants to take Leonard’s contract

      The executive from another team in the negotiations said that was not the situation and Mills just mysteriously halted the proceedings.

    80. 2FOR18, understands math

      Hypothetical Boost. That’s perfect, and is my new nickname for the “melo = X if Y + Z” club.

    81. Ntilakilla

      The executive from another team in the negotiations said that was not the situation and Mills just mysteriously halted the proceedings.

      Show me what he said because every report had the deal snagging on the fact that no one wants Leonard’s contract. In fact, the only reason Portland is willing to take Anderson’s contract is to get rid of Leonard.

    82. #fireRambis

      Simmons > THJ?
      if DRose doesn’t get picked up by Bucks, he might end up back
      who else is available?

    83. Zanzibar

      Show me what he said because every report had the deal snagging on the fact that no one wants Leonard’s contract. In fact, the only reason Portland is willing to take Anderson’s contract is to get rid of Leonard.

      So you know what Portland’s thinking? I just gave you scenarios where Anderson isn’t a bad fit at all given their current roster. Portland’s not shedding salary in this deal, they’re reshuffling the contracts in a way that makes more sense for their roster. One could argue they won’t need much, if any, compensation beyond that in terms of picks.

      I don’t have the link but it said executives of the 3 other teams were frustrated that Mills was stopping proceedings. That implies that they were making some progress or that they hadn’t finished exploring the 4 team option.

    84. Ntilakilla

      Ah, I found Zanzibar’s source. Of course, its none other than Frank Asshola.

      According to an executive of one of the four teams involved in the proposed trade, all sides, including Anthony, are frustrated over reports that Knicks president Steve Mills is having second thoughts. In fact, ESPN reported that the Knicks want the chance to talk to Anthony about possibly remaining in New York, which at this stage in the process seems highly unlikely.

      Except even Asshole concludes his article with the little tidbit he glosses over:

      The parameters of a deal are in place but there are some details that need to be finalized.

      I bet the parameters of a deal are in place. I also bet that the details which need to be finalized involve who takes on whose shitty contract.

    85. Ntilakilla

      Portland’s not shedding salary in this deal, they’re reshuffling the contracts in a way that makes more sense for their roster. One could argue they won’t need much, if any, compensation beyond that in terms of picks.

      What reality are you living in? The reports are that Portland isn’t looking for just compensation, they want to exchange one bad contract for another. Are you just unaware of the reports or are you just substituting what you think should happen with what’s being reported as actually happening? You propose Atlanta as a trade partner? Where has it been reported Atlanta even wants Leonard’s deal? You just seem to be making shit up to fit a prescribed conspiracy you’re already convinced is happening.

    86. Zanzibar

      The parameters of a deal are in place but there are some details that need to be finalized.

      Why do you presume the detail is who gets Leonard? The 4th team gets Leonard. They’re probably haggling over where a couple of 2nd round picks end up.

    87. Ntilakilla

      Why do you presume the detail is who gets Leonard?

      Because…

      Melo trade update: despite thoughts Ryan Anderson is the hold up. I'm told the teams are trying to find a home for big man Myers Leonard.— Sports News (@JSports_ent) July 13, 2017

    88. Zanzibar

      You propose Atlanta as a trade partner? Where has it been reported Atlanta even wants Leonard’s deal? You just seem to be making shit up to fit a prescribed conspiracy you’re already convinced is happening.

      I had to put a 4th team in the trade machine to show you how simple a 4-way deal is from a CBA compliance perspective. I could have put Phoenix, Nets or 27 other teams to show you possible deals.

      The reports are that Portland isn’t looking for just compensation, they want to exchange one bad contract for another.

      I have no idea what you’re arguing here. Why would they want to take on a bad 19m/yr 3 year contract to dispose of a bad 10m/yr 3 yr contract? I gave you the answer.

    89. Ntilakilla

      I had to put a 4th team in the trade machine to show you how simple a 4-way deal is from a CBA compliance perspective. I could have put Phoenix, Nets or 27 other teams to show you possible deals.

      Um, but no one is arguing a Leonard trade isn’t financially impossible. The argument is that no one wants to actually take on the financial burden of his contract. I really don’t understand what’s so hard to understand here. Portland wants to replace a big bum with a lesser bum but can’t find a place for the former.

      I have no idea what you’re arguing here. Why would they want to take on a bad 19m/yr 3 year contract to dispose of a bad 10m/yr 3 yr contract?

      Um, because they want to replace their shitty stretch 4 with a better one?

    90. Zanzibar

      Why do you presume the detail is who gets Leonard?

      Because…Melo trade update: despite thoughts Ryan Anderson is the hold up. I’m told the teams are trying to find a home for big man Myers Leonard.— Sports News (@JSports_ent) July 13, 2017

      It was obvious Anderson was not the problem at this stage. Like I said, they could have found potential 4th teams and the “detail” might be how some 2nd round picks are allocated. If they couldn’t find a 4th team at this stage or believed they couldn’t make a 4-way work, then all parties just would have dropped the trade. But the executive has singled out Mills as the one.

    91. Ntilakilla

      Yes but like I said, they could have found potential 4th teams and the “detail” might be how some 2nd round picks are allocated.

      But the report is that they haven’t found a potential 4th team. Why do you insist on making up a 4th team that hasn’t been reported to exist for Leonard?

    92. Zanzibar

      But the report is that they haven’t found a potential 4th team. Why do you insist on making up a 4th team that hasn’t been reported to exist for Leonard?

      They don’t have a home for Leonard until a deal is finalized. They could have a potential 4th team but are arguing over minor stuff. Or there could be a couple of 4th teams and they’re deciding which deal is the best. All of the teams would have dropped out if they were convinced it was hopeless. In fact, Mills hasn’t completely dropped out. He’s gonna talk to Melo and suddenly there’s gonna be great harmony between Melo and the new management team. There’s gonna so much goodwill between Melo and MSG now that Phil’s gone that Mills doesn’t want to continue negotiations where they were left.

    93. Ntilakilla

      The fascinating thing is watching Zanzibar talking himself into selection bias by finding any piece of evidence that fits his conspiracy theory. Even the source he sites in Asshola concludes with the prediction that a deal with Houston will be made. But he’ll disregard this piece of information that contradicts his prescribed narrative and assume the nameless executive source who says Mills leaving a good deal on the table is truth since it adds credence to his idea that Dolan-Mills never wanted to trade Melo in the first place.

    94. Ntilakilla

      They could have a potential 4th team but are arguing over minor stuff. Or there could be a couple of 4th teams and they’re deciding which deal is the best.

      Or it could be as the report states and there are no takers for the Leonard contract.

      All of the teams would have dropped out if they were convinced it was hopeless.

      There’s no need for anyone to drop out of talks. Even the Knicks aren’t dropping out of talks. They are just trying to expand them by getting Melo to expand his list of potential suitors.

    95. Zanzibar

      No selection bias here. If Melo wanted to waive his NTC, he would have told Phil that. Phil explicitly stated before he left that Melo wanted to stay in NY, mentioning that Melo liked the city and family stuff. Melo could have given him the Cavs as an option at that time if he wanted to leave to play for a much better team. The Clippers were also still a possibility at that time. Why did Melo all of a sudden change his mind, a week after Phil was fired and say he’d waive NTC for Cavs?

    96. Ntilakilla

      No selection bias here. If Melo wanted to waive his NTC, he would have told Phil that. Phil explicitly stated before he left that Melo wanted to stay in NY, mentioning that Melo liked the city and family stuff. Melo could have given him the Cavs as an option at that time if he wanted to leave to play for a much better team. The Clippers were also still a possibility at that time. Why did Melo all of a sudden change his mind, a week after Phil was fired?

      Actually, Melo was open to leaving but only via a buyout.

      According to ESPN, the All-Star’s camp has “tried to engage” the Knicks in buyout talks, which would clear the way for Anthony to join the Cavs as a free agent.

      Phil was dead set against it.

      Then two things happened on the 28th of June which changed everything in this equation.

      1. Chris Paul was traded.
      2. Phil Jackson was fired.

      There was finally a team Melo would be willing to accept a trade to that might want him.

    97. Zanzibar

      The two things happened on the 28th of June which changed everything in this equation.
      1. Chris Paul was traded.
      2. Phil Jackson was fired.

      What about the Cavs ? And you’d have to believe Melo was so petulant that he would stay in NY instead of going to Cavs just to spite Phil. Phil gave the guy a max, a NTC and a trade kicker. Yeah, I get why he hates Phil so much. Phil wanted to trade Melo to get something in return. He didn’t really want to buy him out. That only happened when Melo remained adamant about waiving his NTC. telling Phil he wanted to stay in NYC.

      Actually, Melo was open to leaving but only via a buyout.

      Sure in a buyout he’d get 55m and could stay at home for the year and choose to join a chip contending team right before the deadline in March or whenever at min. That’s great flexibility.

    98. Ntilakilla

      When you realize that the only two teams Melo wants to go this offseason are the Cavs and Rockets you can understand why the Knicks would naturally want to reassess their options. The former thinks they can scoop him up on a buyout, the latter doesn’t want to acquire him unless Ryan Anderson’s albatross contract is part of the swap.

    99. Zanzibar

      Melo could have offered to waive his NTC to go to Cavs when Phil asked him and then Cavs would never have had reason to believe a buyout were possible. The buyout talk happened AFTER Melo refused to waive his NTC for any team.

    100. Ntilakilla

      Melo could have offered to waive his NTC to go to Cavs when Phil asked him and then Cavs would never have had reason to believe a buyout were possible. The buyout talked happened AFTER Melo refused to waive his NTC for any team.

      Untrue. The Cavs were trying to work out a trade in the offseason.

      The Cleveland Cavaliers reportedly tried to acquire Carmelo Anthony and Paul George as part of a blockbuster five-team trade but couldn’t find a taker for Kevin Love to complete the deal.

      ESPN’s Stephen A. Smith provided details during an appearance on Mike & Mike (h/t Stephen Douglas of The Big Lead). The New York Knicks, Indiana Pacers, Denver Nuggets and Phoenix Suns were the other teams involved in the discussions.

      There are no indications the massive swap was ever close to getting finalized.

      http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2718533-cavaliers-reportedly-tried-to-land-carmelo-anthony-paul-george-in-5-team-trade

    101. Zanzibar

      Did Melo ever publicly state he would waive his NTC to go to Cleveland while Phil was POBO? Is there any evidence he told Phil he would accept a trade to Cavs? If he were willing, then he should have just made it public. You’re saying he was willing to go to Cavs with no evidence – talk about selection bias. Phil was looking for deals hoping Melo might bite if he found one. In the end though, he realized Melo really wanted to stay in NYC.

    102. Ntilakilla

      Did Melo ever publicly state he would waive his NTC to go to Cleveland while Phil was POBO? Is there any evidence he told Phil he would accept a trade to Cavs?

      Yes, there was. This was from Charlie Rosen (Phil Jackson) back in January.

      He’s four months away from his 33rd birthday, his contract is humongous and contains a no-trade clause. It’s understood that he’d only accept being dealt to the Cavaliers or the Clippers.

      https://www.fanragsports.com/nba/knicks/rosen-whats-going-stumbling-knicks/

      It didn’t happen because neither sides could agree on a deal to their mutual benefit. The same problem we’re seeing today with Houston.

    103. d-mar

      Jeez point, counterpoint for 20 straight posts between Zanzibar and Ntikilla.

      Give it a rest, fellas!

    104. Zanzibar

      Charley Rosen? He just stated the obvious at the time. IF Melo were to waive his NTC, he would likely go to Clippers or Cavs for various reasons (making #’s work, home in LA, CP3, Bron, etc). But Melo would have just said he’d be willing to waive it for those two teams. He then wouldn’t have had to endure the perception he was not interested in joining a competitive team and be engaged in a public spat with Phil. His brand was taking a hit because people were wondering why he’d want to stay a Knick even while many believed he wasn’t being treated properly by Phil. He could have avoided all of that by just stating he was willing to waive NTC for those two teams…just like he did for Houston and Cavs.

    105. Ntilakilla

      Charley Rosen? He just stated the obvious at the time.

      LOL. If it was obvious Melo would have been willing to waive his NTC while Phil was POBO then why did you ask for evidence? I just gave you the guy who Phil Jackson uses as his public mouthpiece to the media as proof Phil believed Melo would accept a trade to either LAC or CLE last season. And now its obvious?

      He could have avoided all of that by just stating he was willing to waive NTC for those two teams…just like he did for Houston and Cavs.

      LOL. You don’t remember when Melo said this back in late January?

      Anthony has a no-trade clause in his contract, but he said he would be willing to listen to management if they told him they wanted to make a change.

      “I think it will be more on the front office,” Anthony told Newsday this week. “I have the power, but still I would talk to them. We would be in communication if they feel like they want to go in a different direction, they want to start rebuilding for the future. If they tell me they want to scrap this whole thing, yeah, I have to consider it.”

      Melo admitted he was open to a trade under the right conditions. You’re uninformed.

    106. Zanzibar

      Melo admitted he was open to a trade under the right conditions.

      Are you really that clueless about public speak and actual intentions? Phil wanted to trade him. Melo knew that. There was no IF here as in “If they tell me they want to scrap this whole thing, yeah, I have to consider it.” Phil told him that. Melo was just giving public mumbo jumbo to try to preserve his image. The bottom line is that if he was willing to accept a trade to Clippers or Cavs, he would have named those teams publicly and said he would waive the NTC for them just like he recently did for Houston and Cavs.

      Gotta go and end this tedious discussion.

    107. Cock Jowles, Not a Knicks Fan Because Fuck This Team

      There’s barely any point in debating if Melo would be better than [insert name of lower usage, more efficient player here] if all of the sudden he woke up and decided to radically alter his shot distribution. I mean, how do we know Anderson/Gallo/whoever are taking the perfect shots for their own efficiencies? Seems unfair to give Melo some hypothetical boost while assuming they’d just stay the same if we’re going to pretend everyone is willing to take the most optimal shots.

      We had this conversation like twice a week in 2012-13 regarding whether Chandler had hit his usage peak and how he could literally take no more shot attempts without being less efficient; no one’s mind changed.

      Some people will always think that Melo could have been Kevin Durant if he weren’t “forced” to take so many shots. I will always think that those people are total dum-dums.

    108. Ntilakilla

      Are you really that clueless about public speak and actual intentions? Phil wanted to trade him. Melo knew that. There was no IF here as in “If they tell me they want to scrap this whole thing, yeah, I have to consider it.” Phil told him that. Melo was just giving public mumbo jumbo to try to preserve his image. The bottom line is that if he was willing to accept a trade to Clippers or Cavs, he would have named those teams publicly and said he would waive the NTC for them just like he recently did for Houston and Cavs.

      There is a lot of speculation here masquerading as fact. I prefer to let the facts speak for themselves. Charlie Rosen, Phil’s public mouthpiece, said it was known that Melo preferred to waive his NTC for a deal sending him to Cleveland or LAC. Melo then said that he would consider any deal should both sides part. This has been documented in the official record. The rest is just you using conjecture to explain away these documented facts in a way which jives with your conspiracy theory supported by contradictory evidence and lots of supposition. I’m sorry, but I prefer not to twist logic into pretzels.

    109. Ntilakilla

      The deal is in place to send Carmelo Anthony to Houston. Knicks are waiting to pull trigger on mega-deal involving 5 teams.— Clever Hoops (@CleverHoops) July 15, 2017

    110. er

      Some people will always think that Melo could have been Kevin Durant if he weren’t “forced” to take so many shots. I will always think that those people are total dum-dums.

      I don’t think anyone thinks this

    111. Z-man

      From P&T, Joe Flynn coined one of the wittier descriptions of a player I’ve had the lol pleasure to read. In describing the possibility of receiving Evan Turner in a trade for Melo, he wrote this:

      “He’s a weird hodgepodge of non-elite skills (passing! some defense!) sewn together to create a Frankenstein’s monster of suck.”

    112. Donnie Walsh

      Uh no. Melo is a far superior player. He could shoot 40% on open threes plus more.

      Fucking Knicks fans are blinded by hate…..

      This is why I want him to leave. Muffuckas….tryna say Ryan Anderson is better.

      So Carmelo would shoot basically the same 3pt% as Curry if he plays for the rockets?

      Feel free to think that, but be prepared to be disappointed.

      But even if you’re right, there’s a reason the current COY didn’t want to coach him. He won’t just shoot open 3s. (Perhaps you’ll find out the hard(a)way.)

    113. JK47

      At this point I’ll take Ryan Anderson AND Evan Turner’s shitty contracts just so the MeloDrama can end

    114. Bruno Almeida

      I’ll be happy to engage optimists on conversations about how Evan Turner will not improve and will not help the Knicks to 42 wins sitting in my luxury cabin at the Doncic express.

    115. KnickfaninNJ

      There are all sorts of optimists who will say, “The deal is almost done”, “There are just a few details left”, “we’re on the two yard line”. It’s a reporter’s job to report this when people say it, but it’s ridiculous to believe that it means a deal is basically done. The last details are always hard; that’s why they are saved for last.

    116. Boriqua3

      Looking forward to the day I log onto this site with the Knicks having made it into the endzone.

    117. The Glass Half Rebuilt

      I’m all in on Marvin Bagley if he plays college ball this year. A top 5 of Doncic, Bagley, Porter Jr, Aayton, and Bamba would probably be the best top 5 picks I can remember since I’ve been following the NBA Draft.

    118. JK47

      Manute Bol’s kid is named Bol Bol, and he’s one of the top prospects in the 2019 draft.

      Give me Bol Bol.

    119. danvt

      @er

      My point was that those were win now moves that did not work out. No they were not good players. It was short sighted to build around Carmelo, IMHO. Maybe they could have done a better job of it and maybe that would have changed the way I feel but I feel they did two things wrong. They built around a flawed franchise player and found the wrong pieces to put around any player.

    120. Cock Jowles, Not a Knicks Fan Because Fuck This Team

      Sometimes it’s just better to step back and watch the dumpster burn than to argue whether it’s on fire in the first place. Just my opinion.

    121. Bruno Almeida

      I’m on Bol Bol’s hype train, that would be amazing.

      from Woj now:

      “One of the teams that New York and Houston had hoped would facilitate a multiteam trade for Anthony — the Portland Trail Blazers — plans to participate in a deal for Anthony only if he decides to expand his no-trade clause to include the Trail Blazers, league sources told ESPN.

      Portland believes the addition of a player such as Anthony would furnish it with talent and depth comparable to those of the top Western Conference contenders, except for the Golden State Warriors , league sources said. Because of that, the Blazers have little, if any, inclination to facilitate an Anthony deal that would land him with a Western Conference rival such as Houston, league sources said.”

    122. Bruno Almeida

      that’s… incredibly weird news, from the absolute bizarre thought that Portland could challenge the top dogs in the west with Melo, to believing he would go to Portland of all places… and also pretty much taking the Blazers out as facilitators for the trade.

      this might be terrible news.

    123. Bruno Almeida

      more woj
      “With Perry’s hiring from Sacramento and the promotion of Steve Mills to president, the Knicks have paused those trade discussions, in part because New York has been unhappy with the recent proposed returns on an Anthony deal, league sources said.

      As Perry starts to shape the front office and impact policy, another realization has washed over the organization — that the months of organizational harping on Anthony, driven largely by deposed president of basketball operations Jackson, has dramatically devalued Anthony’s trade value. Mills and Perry are evaluating whether it’s worth allowing time for Anthony’s standing around the NBA to be rebuilt, as opposed to trading him at an all-time low, league sources said.

      The Knicks realize the odds are long of convincing Anthony to simply forget trade talks and accept a return to New York, especially given how aggressively Jackson pushed to run Anthony out of town. While Jackson was primarily responsible for going to great lengths to publicly shame and discredit Anthony, Jackson wasn’t the only one within the franchise to play a part in the campaign.

      Because Anthony didn’t easily accept waiving his no-trade clause, no one should expect that he will easily shift his mindset back about staying with the Knicks beyond the summer.”

    124. JK47

      “Because Anthony didn’t easily accept waiving his no-trade clause, no one should expect that he will easily shift his mindset back about staying with the Knicks beyond the summer.”

      Well, tough titties for him, he doesn’t get to decide where he gets traded to and for what. If it turns out that the hire of Perry ended up with the Knicks exercising some common sense for once, that’s a good sign.

      We screwed ourselves when we traded for Melo, and we shouldn’t screw ourselves again by taking on more bad contracts just to get him out the door. Let him stay here and get yelled at by Kurt Rambis every day. I would advocate keeping Rambis around for that specific purpose.

    125. Ntilakilla

      I like how writers frame the issue as one of getting Melo to want to come back and play for us as if he isn’t contractually obligated to haul his ass back to team practices and games if the Knicks should determine they so need him to. One has to seriously wonder if these people think Melo playing for us is volunteer work where he decides if he wants to go or not out of the kindness of his heart.

    126. The Glass Half Rebuilt

      I don’t think it’s an issue of Melo’s trade value; Houston legitimately has nothing to offer.

    127. Bruno Almeida

      Houston has Capela, Gordon, Ariza and picks they could theoretically offer. The issue with Melo’s value is that Houston feels they don’t need to offer any of those assets and can stick to lowballing the Knicks with Anderson, since Melo is intent on leaving.

      Again Melo, by his actions or not, will end up fucking the Knicks. This team will either have to deal with the media circus around a “disgruntled star” who’s unhappy, or trade him for pennies.

      At this moment, if the offers truly really suck, Marbury him and let’s move on.

    128. TheOakmanCometh

      Woj’s analysis is pretty lazy there. Phil’s public harping on Melo lowered our trade leverage, but it didn’t lower his trade value. Nobody thinks Melo is a worse player because Phil didn’t like him. Melo’s value is low because he’s not that good anymore.

      For that reason, it would be foolish to hang onto Melo for half a season hoping to rebuild his value. He’s not going to get better. Holding onto him will improve our leverage, but not his value.

    129. er

      Marbury him and let’s move on.

      I laugh Every time i see one of u post this. It’s not gonna happen. If he’s here he will play. The Knicks gave him a ntc. The union would be all up the Knicks ass and Dolan wouldn’t allow it anyway.

    130. The Glass Half Rebuilt

      No; the issue is that if they give up EG, Ariza, and Capela they will not be good enough to compete with Golden State. You could say the same thing about Houston if they were trading for Giannis instead of Melo. The fact is Jerry West already stole Sam Dekker, Pat Beverley, and the 2018 1st round pick from Houston and now they have no assets to offer. Beverley, Dekker, and the 2018 1st round pick would have been enough to get Melo (in fact it’s exactly what the Knicks have been asking for), but CP3 didn’t sign with the Rockets in free agency.

      It’s funny how the world works. CP3 took a trade and robbed his future team of the assets they needed to build a championship team around him. That’s exactly what Melo did in 2011.

    131. Donnie Walsh

      Morey is in a tough situation: his players want Anthony, but his coach doesn’t. Privately, he probably agrees with his coach, but there’s a political game to be played.

      The odds are that Houston can’t beat Golden State next spring with Anthony or with Anderson, so it’s not bad politics to give a half-hearted effort to appease the star players and make low offers for Anthony. But he’d be crazy to include Capella in a trade, and I’d be shocked if he doesn’t recognize that.

    132. Bruno Almeida

      there’s no need to keep Melo from the team like they did with Stephon, just bench him until he waives the NTC. A team can choose to bench any player, NTC does not prevent that.

      and obviously Morey knows trading those assets for Melo would not be beneficial; but if Melo’s trade value was higher, and if Morey actually wants him, he would be forced to give up more assets (or risk the Cavs outbidding him for example)

      with Melo’s value at an all-time low, he doesn’t have to worry about it.

    133. er

      team can choose to bench any player, NTC does not prevent that.

      True but Melo is already on the unions radar. If he is benched against his will,while healthy that shit will not fly. It would be obvious that he’s being benched to force his hand to waive the NTC, which was in his contract. Same as if a player refused to play to try and force a trade. It would be a breach of contract.

      The union has lawyers and they aren’t stupid.

    134. bobneptune

      True but Melo is already on the unions radar. If he is benched against his will,while healthy that shit will not fly. It would be obvious that he’s being benched to force his hand to waive the NTC, which was in his contract. Same as if a player refused to play to try and force a trade. It would be a breach of contract.

      The union has lawyers and they aren’t stupid.

      There is more than one way to skin a cat.

      All the Knicks need do is compile a tape of Melo’s play last year and show 20 consecutive minutes of blown assignments, not hustling back on D , pounding the ball and stopping the offense, etc and sit the team down and show it to everyone and then show a clip of his Olympic play.

      Say everyone is on notice that playing time is predicated on effort and not contract. Play him if he plays as he should and bench him if he doesn’t and tell the union to blow it out their ass.

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