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Saturday, November 18, 2017

Knicks Morning News (2017.07.14)

  • [ESPN] Sources: Knicks put Melo trade talks on hold
    (Thursday, July 13, 2017 9:30:50 PM)

    Sources: Knicks put Melo trade talks on hold

  • [ESPN] Sources: Rose, Bucks to set up 2nd meeting
    (Thursday, July 13, 2017 9:14:22 PM)

    Sources: Rose, Bucks to set up 2nd meeting

  • [ESPN] Sources: Knicks to install Kings’ Perry as GM
    (Thursday, July 13, 2017 4:18:40 PM)

    Sources: Knicks to install Kings’ Perry as GM

  • [NYPost] Carmelo Anthony trade talk pause rare good move by Knicks
    (Thursday, July 13, 2017 10:45:57 PM)

    Interesting day for the Knicks, Thursday. First, they went and hired themselves an actual general manager with actual chops, with a proven acumen to do the job and a résumé to strongly suggest he can do it well. How surprising was this? A text message arrived late Thursday night from an old friend of Scott…

  • [NYPost] Knicks put Carmelo Anthony trade talks on ice — for now
    (Thursday, July 13, 2017 7:11:30 PM)

    It looks like the Knicks are on the 2-yard line with Carmelo Anthony trade talks — with 98 yards to go. According to a source close to trade talks with the Rockets, the Knicks, with no deal on the table with Houston that makes sense, are hitting the reset button, regrouping and have stalled talks…

  • [NYPost] Knicks hire Kings exec Scott Perry as next GM
    (Thursday, July 13, 2017 12:59:57 PM)

    Scott Perry, the Sacramento Kings’ vice president of basketball operations, has agreed to become the Knicks general manager — the No. 2 job in the front office under acting president Steve Mills. Perry agreed to a deal with the Knicks after meeting with Mills on Thursday, an NBA source confirmed. As The Post has reported,…

  • [NYPost] Knicks’ future is brighter than people think: ex-coach
    (Thursday, July 13, 2017 12:52:59 PM)

    Former Knicks coach and current NBA TV analyst Stu Jackson talks to The Post’s Howie Kussoy about a potential Carmelo Anthony trade, Phil Jackson’s departure and the winners in free agency. Q: If Anthony ends up on the Rockets, how would he fit with two other superstars — James Harden and Chris Paul — who…

  • [NY Newsday] Knicks agree to terms with Kings’ Scott Perry for GM job, source says
    (Thursday, July 13, 2017 11:52:42 PM)

    Steve Mills has found the person to help him work through the Carmelo Anthony situation and assist with future Knicks personnel decisions. Longtime NBA executive Scott Perry reached an agreement Thursday to become the Knicks’ general manager, a league source confirmed.

  • [NY Newsday] Kristaps Porzingis, DeMarcus Cousins to play in NBA Africa Game
    (Thursday, July 13, 2017 12:28:31 PM)

    DeMarcus Cousins of the New Orleans Pelicans, Kyle Lowry of the Toronto Raptors and Kristaps Porzingis of the New York Knicks will play for Team World in the NBA Africa Game.

  • [NYTimes] Knicks Grab Kings’ Scott Perry for New General Manager
    (Friday, July 14, 2017 2:54:58 AM)

    Perry is coming after just a few months in Sacramento, and Steve Mills will take over the president role vacated by the departure of Phil Jackson.

  • [NYDN] Knicks hire Kings executive Scott Perry as new GM
    (Thursday, July 13, 2017 5:32:35 PM)

    Shockingly, the Knicks are going outside the Garden with their GM hire.

  • [NYDN] Knicks make smart move hiring Scott Perry, but it’s only step one
    (Thursday, July 13, 2017 5:13:00 PM)

    One NBA executive said Scott Perry is “a good hire for the Knicks. I’m surprised they would do it.”

  • [NYDN] Porzingis headlines Team World roster for NBA Africa Game
    (Thursday, July 13, 2017 7:21:44 AM)

    Two Knicks players will enjoy a brief vacation from the Melo-drama this summer.

  • [SNY Knicks] Knicks stop discussing Carmelo Anthony trade with Cavaliers, Rockets
    (Thursday, July 13, 2017 10:03:27 PM)

    The Knicks have stopped trade talks with the Houston Rockets and Cleveland Cavaliers regarding Carmelo Anthony, according to ESPN’s Adrian Wojnarowski and Ramona Shelburne.

  • [SNY Knicks] Kings VP Scott Perry agrees to become Knicks GM
    (Thursday, July 13, 2017 6:25:49 PM)

    The team met with Sacramento Kings vice president of basketball operations Scott Perry on Wednesday and were discussing parameters to make him the new GM.

  • [SNY Knicks] Daily News Live: Stefan Bondy breaks down Knicks’ recent moves
    (Thursday, July 13, 2017 6:13:19 PM)

  • [SNY Knicks] New York Sports today: Knicks and Rockets near deal involving Carmelo Anthony
    (Thursday, July 13, 2017 9:36:20 AM)

  • [SNY Knicks] Peyton Manning takes shots at Knicks during ESPYs monologue
    (Thursday, July 13, 2017 9:58:18 AM)

    ESPYs host, future Hall of Fame QB Peyton Manning, took some shots at the Knicks in his monologue Wednesday night.

  • [SNY Knicks] Porzingis, Lee to participate in 2017 NBA Africa Game
    (Thursday, July 13, 2017 9:27:56 AM)

    Kristaps Porzingis and Courtney Lee will both suit up for Team World in the second-ever NBA Africa Game, the league announced.

  • [SNY Knicks] Knicks reportedly interested in Shabazz Muhammad
    (Thursday, July 13, 2017 8:53:06 AM)

    The Knicks are one of four teams interested in acquiring Shabazz Muhammad, reports Marc J. Spears of ESPN.

  • [SNY Knicks] NBA cuts down on timeouts to improve pace of game
    (Thursday, July 13, 2017 8:07:53 AM)

    The NBA has accepted recommendations from the competition committee to improve the speed of the game, the league announced Wednesday.

  • 210 comments on “Knicks Morning News (2017.07.14)

    1. english_knick

      I want Melo gone and was excited at the prospect of a trade going down.

      But this reset has to be a good decision – we were starting to reconcile ourselves to a deal taking on 8-figure per year, three year deals for positjonoally redundant players (Anderson, Leonard) – this way we can reset, take stock with a guy who by all accounts knows what he’s doing… and if his really is the best path it will still be there in a week… I’ll take that as a good first step by the new guy.

    2. Z-man

      Sounds like everyone is operating under the assumption that Noah is totally washed up. I wonder if he’ll be healthy enough to play, and at what level. Obviously he’s suspended to start the season, but what about after that? What would be a good over-under for his minutes, like 800 or so? 45 games played? I just hate to totally write the guy off.

    3. Brian Cronin

      He’s definitely not washed up. While the contract is terrible, it’s not like Noah is going to be unplayable so long as he is healthy (how long that will be is a mystery, of course). As bad as he was in year one, he was still better than a lot of his teammates. And he has forgotten more about good defense than all of his teammates have ever known, so he’s still a plus there.

    4. wetbandit

      We wont see much from Frank this year. Or probably next. And we don’t know much about Dennis Smith that we didn’t already know. Also, even if Frank busts, it doesn’t mean at the time of the draft he was the inferior player. I like who he can become, an efficient, high-IQ defensive shooter.

      The sad thing – the garden will roast him if he doesn’t find a way to contribute early.

      Give it some patience Knicks fans.

    5. Ntilakilla

      A text message arrived late Thursday night from an old friend of Scott Perry’s, a guy who goes back to the Ohio Valley Conference with him when Perry coached at Eastern Kentucky, and the message was simple.

      “You have no idea what a great hire this is,” it said

    6. d-mar

      Watched about 15 minutes of Dennis Smith Jr. last night. Just in that short time frame, the announcers brought up the following names as comparisons:

      Russell Westbrook
      Penny Hardaway
      Baron Davis

      How about we all pump the brakes a little on this guy? “Killing it in summer league” means about as much as “made 50 straight 3 pointers in practice”

    7. Z-man

      I wish that a quote from an old friend was enough to fill me with confidence. Sadly, Perry is coming in to a situation that is toxic from top to bottom, as KP so eloquently surmised. Is he the disinfectant or is this like dropping an air freshener in an open sewer?

      Let’s not forget that Hornacek is still the coach, and KP pretty much despises him. Will Perry fire Horny as a sign of good faith to KP? Will he be allowed to ditch Rambis? Or is he just a stooge for Mills?

    8. bockadoo

      It’s now 4th and goal at the 2 for this trade and we just called time out and brought in a new coach to replace Pete Carroll(sp?). Unorthodox? Yes. Smart and a pivotal point for the future of the franchise? Yes. Love this!

    9. Brian Cronin

      Think of how remarkable this year has been for Perry. He was fired as Assistant GM by the Magic (as they cleaned house), got hired as Assistant GM by the Kings, did (by all accounts) a very good job for the Kings in the three months that he was there and now got hired to be the GM for the Knicks. Talk about a roller coaster ride!

    10. Ntilakilla

      There once was a GM named Perry
      Who said “yes” to a job very scary
      He came in to fix
      A mess called the Knicks
      That was a career cemetery.

    11. Ntilakilla

      @10 Seems like the guy really likes a challenge working for those teams.

      And if his track record with the Kings shows us anything its that he can do a lot in a little amount of time. Now, I know the Knicks are a special case. But I feel better knowing he’s worked with a moron GM and meddlesome owner before to do some positive things.

    12. thenamestsam

      When did it become consensus that the Kings had a good offseason? I didn’t like anything that they did. Wasn’t a fan of trading down from 10 just to add Giles (who looks like a crock to me) when there were still some of the really good guys left on the board. Wasn’t a fan of spending all their cap space on washed up Grizzlies. They got good value with George Hill though, I’ll grant them that, although I’m not sure I see the point of it. Which part of their offseason are we looking at and feeling that they killed it?

    13. ptmilo

      When did it become consensus that the Kings had a good offseason?

      I agree. I really don’t like giving Randolph 2/24, though it isn’t the biggest deal. They didn’t do anything special. They made a solid but ultimately useless signing in Hill. The “you need a veteran presence to change the culture” crowd likes it, I guess. They’re just getting credit for not setting the house on fire. Call it the Isiah grading curve.

    14. thenoblefacehumper

      When did it become consensus that the Kings had a good offseason? I didn’t like anything that they did. Wasn’t a fan of trading down from 10 just to add Giles (who looks like a crock to me) when there were still some of the really good guys left on the board. Wasn’t a fan of spending all their cap space on washed up Grizzlies. They got good value with George Hill though, I’ll grant them that, although I’m not sure I see the point of it. Which part of their offseason are we looking at and feeling that they killed it?

      I hated trading down instead of just taking Collins and being stoked, but we’ll have to wait-and-see on that one. I don’t mind spending on the vets because even though I’m skeptical of the “mentor” effect or whatever, it’s probably not negligible and all of those contracts are tradable (especially Hill, who I anticipate they’ll be able to get a pick or two out of).

      All in all, that franchise was in desperate need of credibility (maybe even more so than us) and he was able to provide it without doing anything too stupid like give Ron Baker and Tim Hardaway Jr. a bunch of money with player options.

    15. thenamestsam

      They’re just getting credit for not setting the house on fire. Call it the Isiah grading curve.

      Exactly how I see it. They had two top 10 picks so they were always going to come out of draft night looking pretty good barring any Papagiannis-type WTF picks. I didn’t like the trade down, some did, still it’s not like they made miracles happen, they basically got about what you’d expect given their picks. They haven’t always accomplished that in the past, but it’s not exactly genius-level stuff.

      And free agency the same. They pointlessly added mediocre veteran talent to a really bad core so that they can win 33 games instead of 28 while their youngsters are “mentored” (aka get fewer minutes), instead of using their space to pick up assets. Not nearly as bad as some of the standout bad trades they’ve made in the past, but thoroughly average.

    16. Brian Cronin

      What Perry really got credit for was the Hill signing, as that’s a guy who probably doesn’t even take the Kings seriously before Perry got there. Perry’s connected to all of the agents out there and he has a great rep, so it helped get Hill and his people comfortable with the Kings. But yeah, other than that, he mostly got credit for just making them a generally functional front office after a lot of time of being extremely dysfunctional.

      Perry’s probably overly interested in veterans, but I suspect Mills is still going to be driving the team plans and Perry is mostly here for his connections and his ability to make disorganized front offices work smoothly.

      Just look at all the outpouring of love for the guy from around the league. I don’t think that it means that he’s going to be a good GM, per se, but it does show that he’s a very well-liked guy. And that’s helpful, especially when the Knicks previously had Phil, who pissed everyone off.

    17. DS

      Think of how remarkable this year has been for Perry. He was fired as Assistant GM by the Magic (as they cleaned house), got hired as Assistant GM by the Kings, did (by all accounts) a very good job for the Kings in the three months that he was there and now got hired to be the GM for the Knicks. Talk about a roller coaster ride!

      At least things tend to settle down when you join the Knicks’ front office.

    18. DS

      I imagine Steve Mills’s team working on the ‘Melo trade with post-its with the names of players messily written on them. Someone pipes up, “who’s Meyers Lenard?” They have to stop to tell him. Daryl Morey, meanwhile, has his own think tank sitting around a board room diligently crunching numbers and citing advanced statistics.

    19. thenamestsam

      But yeah, other than that, he mostly got credit for just making them a generally functional front office after a lot of time of being extremely dysfunctional.

      You heard a lot of this during Phil’s first year or so here, during the Lopez summer in particular. Oh wow, the Knicks are a totally normal team now, what good progress. And then it devolved into a total shit show again. And after a few years of being in charge, thoroughly mediocre GM-ing stops getting compared to incompetent predecessors and starts having to stand on its own. At that point, “hasn’t made any particularly huge mistakes” starts being kind of a weak credential. All I’m saying is there’s a long way from not shitting all over yourself in your first 6 months to being a good GM. I’ll grant you the former, but I’m not sure it’s particularly strong evidence of the latter.

    20. Ntilakilla

      You heard a lot of this during Phil’s first year or so here, during the Lopez summer in particular. Oh wow, the Knicks are a totally normal team now, what good progress.

      Applauding Knicks' hiring of Scott Perry. Experienced. Low profile. Not expected 2B another savior, just work the job. Which he does. Well!— Peter Vecsey (@PeterVecsey1) July 13, 2017

    21. stratomatic is despondent

      1. I’d way rather have Melo back for one year and hope he opts out than make a deal that brings back one or two 3 year contracts for players I do not want.

      2. With all the talk about mistakes Phil made, no one seems to realize what a gigantic boner Morey made when signed Ryan Anderson to that massive multi-year contract. So clearly, you aren’t going to get a perfect record from anyone, even the best in the business.

      3. I’m happy we went outside the organization for a GM but I see a few problems/questions with it.

      a. It’s difficult to know what role Perry played in various drafts, signings, and trades, but the record in Orlando is a blueprint for why trying to build through the draft is harder in real life than in theory. Remember, he was fired.

      b. If the team stinks and makes no progress, Mills and the other swamp people will simply fire him and stay in place. You could argue that if they made Houston or another insider GM, at least if he failed one of them would be out.

      c. Darko Milicic

    22. KnickfaninNJ

      This reminds me of when the Knicks hired Hornacek. We were all worried about getting Rambis or Phil making a terrible hire and he picked someone reasonable. Now the Knicks picked a reasonable GM too. Hornacek has been neither a wizard nor a washout, and I expect the same from Perry. I’m not complaining, far from it, it’s really nice when normalcy happens to the Knicks.

    23. plenty

      This hire makes me feel all tingly inside. Fascinating.

      But for real – this is pleasant news and after the shit show that was this past week and a half in knick moves, I’ll take it.

    24. Brian Cronin

      If the team stinks and makes no progress, Mills and the other swamp people will simply fire him and stay in place. You could argue that if they made Houston or another insider GM, at least if he failed one of them would be out.

      Very possibly why Houston didn’t get it, because Mills doesn’t want to scapegoat a buddy of his.

    25. Zanzibar

      So Perry is not into analytics but has an excellent relationship with agents and the press. You know who had the exact same profile when he was hired into the Knicks front office? Mills. I’m neutral about this hire. I don’t think it will mean much since Mills & Co will be making the major decisions. But maybe if Ntilakilla provides a quote from Scott’s mom about how terrific he is I could be persuaded to be more positive.

    26. Brian Cronin

      So Perry is not into analytics but has an excellent relationship with agents and the press. You know who had the exact same profile when he was hired into the Knicks front office? Mills. I’m neutral about this hire. I don’t think it will mean much since Mills & Co will be making the major decisions. But maybe if Ntilikilla provides a quote from Scott’s mom about how wonderful he is I could be persuaded to be more positive.

      Oh, he’s totally similar to Mills, but he’s actually been working in GM offices for the last 15+ years while Mills was either out of basketball or working just for MSG for a lot of that time (Mills had previous basketball experience, but you know what I mean – he has spent a lot of time out of the game). So I think that’s a benefit that Perry provides. He was gladhanding people while Mills was stuck with Phil.

    27. fmikieo

      I’m just taking a wait-and-see with this team. If they continue to suck without any hope for improvement, rather than spending $100 on league pass, I’ll just go find something else to do.

      I honestly do not think that the KP-Hornachek is toxic, so I’m not worried.

    28. fmikieo

      That said, if the newly reconstituted front office is able to drop Melo, get Harkless and a vet PG (Bledsoe?) without taking back a bad contract, that would be a win in my book.

      If they’re to keep Melo AND get him to buy into Hornachek’s team concepts, then that would be an even greater win. The key in that instance would be to get Melo to care again.
      Good luck with that.

    29. plenty

      Mills makes decisions ultimately, but a good amount of the day to day decisions will be suggested by and made by Perry. I’m not crying wolf with Perry being another Mills – anyone outside of the msg mental masturbation club is a net positive.

      Though I do secretly enjoy the Munchausen-y vibes going on about the hire. As if Darko was hand-selected by Perry himself…

    30. 2FOR18, understands math

      Did Morey give Anderson a NTC and trade kicker and a player option?

      No? Then it’s not comparable.

    31. mase

      If perry can get us toward our supposed goal of getting younger and not overpaying for youth while shedding vets, he is a winner although that may not add up to wins in the short term.

    32. KnickfaninNJ

      I really don’t think Houston was a candidate. I suspect his Westchester Knicks job is just as much a basketball business job as a build a good team job. I don’t think it’s a career path to GM of the Knicks.

    33. swiftandabundant

      I think pumping the brakes on a Melo deal right now is a good call. Training camp is still several months away. There is plenty of time to make a deal. The only thing that could hurt us if we wait on a deal a few weeks is that if we clear cap space in a Melo deal it might open the door for a nice veteran PG to come in here and steer the helm while Frank gets acclimated. But to me that is the only risk and we still might be able to do that with a separate Lee trade.

    34. Zanzibar

      I personally would have preferred if Mills had hired a heavy analytics person. At least then there would have been the possibility of that person educating Mills and maaaaybe persuading him on some stuff. There would be the hope such a GM could shield us against trap players like Evan Turner. A more subtle example might be if Mills were to say: I’m willing to overpay because I think Tim will improve his 3FG%. An analytics oriented person might reply: It’s possible but against the odds. Tim’s highest 3FG% was in his first year and since then it’s moved in a very narrow range averaging 35%. My historical review of similar SG profiles shows that it is very unlikely he’ll be able to make a sustainable jump to the high 30s.

    35. DRed

      You don’t even need to be an analytics person to realize giving Ron Baker a player option on the second year of his contract is dumb. Or to understand you don’t have to give Timmy that much money to get the Hawks to not match. I can barely do simple algebra and I know that shit is dumb.

    36. Ntilakilla

      So Perry is not into analytics but has an excellent relationship with agents and the press. You know who had the exact same profile when he was hired into the Knicks front office? Mills. I’m neutral about this hire. I don’t think it will mean much since Mills & Co will be making the major decisions. But maybe if Ntilikilla provides a quote from Scott’s mom about how wonderful he is I could be persuaded to be more positive.

      OH NOES! SCOTT PERRY ISN’T INTO ANALYTICS? WHAT DO WE TELL THE CHILDREN?

      But in seriousness there are a lot of logical fallacies presented here for a site that emphasizes a scientific, empirical and analytic approach to the basketball game – including the ridiculous “either or/false choice” fallacy presented here. I guess any basketball executive who “is not into analytics” and is liked by the media is comparable to Steve Mills now. Scott Perry and Steve Mills also have names that begin with the letter “s” so there’s that too. Let the great similarities continue!

    37. JK47

      We’ve had many years of executives who weren’t into analytics. The results have been less than optimal. I’d like for the Knicks to try something different, but whatevs. Maybe trying the thing that has resulted in decades of failure will pan out this time.

    38. Zanzibar

      OH NOES! SCOTT PERRY ISN’T INTO ANALYTICS? WHAT DO WE TELL THE CHILDREN?

      reub is that you? Props if it is – throwing us off the scent by making us think you’re the guy who was your old foe.

      But in seriousness there are a lot of logical fallacies presented here for a site that emphasizes a scientific, empirical and analytic approach to the basketball game – including the ridiculous “either or/false choice” fallacy presented here. I guess any basketball executive who “is not into analytics” and is liked by the media is comparable to Steve Mills now.

      That’s why I said I’m “neutral” earlier on him – because we don’t know his philosophy for sure. However, I would have preferred someone who we know for sure is heavy into analytics. That’s better than the logical fallacy of presuming Perry’s gonna be great because his barber says he’s a great guy.

    39. Mike Kurylo Post author

      > Does Zhao Jiwei speak English? The culture barrier for Chinese born players is even greater than the one for Euros. It would be interesting to see a 21 year old Chinese player tutor an 18 year old French-Rwandan rookie.

      I don’t see why China is a bigger barrier than France, especially in NYC. I mean if Yao Ming can make it in Houston…

      Second, people in other countries tend to learn more than one language, so it wouldn’t shock me if Frank and Zhao share a common language. Heck given that half our roster is foreign born, it shouldn’t be a weakness, but a strength to integrate foreign players.

    40. Bruno Almeida

      it’s not about a scientific, empirical approach to basketball… it’s about using the tools at your disposal.

      I’d rather have a GM that’s big on analytics because that generally means he won’t get bamboozled so easily to overpaying the rough riders, the ballers, the real hoppers etc and will preferably understand what things like efficiency or usage means.

      I don’t need David Berri as a GM, just not another dude who overvalues pointzz and volume scoring over every single other aspect of basketball.

    41. Mike R

      Wow just reading about how the pacers offered George to golden state for klay is pretty crazy. George even commented about it saying he thinks the league would have vetoed it had golden state not turned it down.

    42. thenoblefacehumper

      With all the talk about mistakes Phil made, no one seems to realize what a gigantic boner Morey made when signed Ryan Anderson to that massive multi-year contract. So clearly, you aren’t going to get a perfect record from anyone, even the best in the business.

      The win curve is a real thing that matters a lot, though. If Melo was an essential part of a 55 win team that then added Chris Paul, the contract wouldn’t be nearly as bad. Instead he was an essential part of a 17 win team.

    43. Brian Cronin

      Which is why the Noah and Lee deals were so bonkers. Signing guys to long term deals in their 30s when you’re going to be bad for at least the first two years of their deals (i.e. the years they are most likely to be good) is just nuts.

    44. Frank

      I don’t know about Scott Perry, but he WAS with Hennigan and Presti, and both of those guys are smart dudes who use analytics.

      He’s been around the league for a long time, but he’s 53, not 73 like Phil Jackson. Tough to be as well respected as he is in executive circles and not at least believe in the idea of analytics.

    45. 2FOR18, understands math

      G State is smart enough to avoid redundancy, unlike a certain team with 2 mediocre off guards making a combined 30 mil, backed up by 2 off guards they just drafted.

    46. stratomatic is despondent

      Very possibly why Houston didn’t get it, because Mills doesn’t want to scapegoat a buddy of his.

      That was my point, albeit not expressed well.

      These guys (Mills, Isiah, Houston and others) have a gravy train. No matter how bad they are, no matter what they’ve done and lost their jobs over, they keep coming back. They are too smart to put themselves in the line of fire. Mills has been trying to get Jackson removed all along. Anyone that thinks all the negative one sided press was accurate and balanced is being naive. Mills has ascended to the thrown. He has the power now. He, Isiah, Houston and others are the ones with Dolan’s ear now also. Why put one of your own in the ling of fire when you already have all the power and money? Not a single one of them cares about the Knicks beyond how it impacts their personal position, power and income.

    47. DS

      It comes down to KP… KP needs to be the greatest Knick since Ewing to turn this ship around.

    48. Frank

      hmmm… another reason to tank the year — apparently Marvin Bagley III is thinking about going to college a year early, could be in the 2018 draft with Michael Porter Jr and Doncic…

    49. Zanzibar

      I don’t know about Scott Perry, but he WAS with Hennigan and Presti, and both of those guys are smart dudes who use analytics. He’s been around the league for a long time, but he’s 53, not 73 like Phil Jackson. Tough to be as well respected as he is in executive circles and not at least believe in the idea of analytics.

      I think the real question – if he’s ok with analytics to a degree – is if he believes in it enough and understands it enough to convey any info in a succinct manner which Mills could understand. That would be more valuable than having some analytics dept nerd doing that. Take Evan Turner. Zeke’s gonna be whispering in Mills ear: I played the 1, I know who’s the real deal, and Evan Turner could be a nice 1 guard for us the next 2 or 3 years. You better have someone who’s able to talk about bpm, vorp, etc in a comprehensible manner to counter Isiah’s dulcet whisperings.

    50. Brian Cronin

      hmmm… another reason to tank the year — apparently Marvin Bagley III is thinking about going to college a year early, could be in the 2018 draft with Michael Porter Jr and Doncic…

      Oh, for real? Bagley is the real deal, so oh man, tank it up, people!

    51. JK47

      “…with the #6 pick in the 2018 NBA draft, the New York Knicks select Miles Bridges, forward, Michigan State University…”

    52. chrisk06811

      Holy Moly. Give the guy a chance. If you are so pessimistic that you have to find reasons to fault a hire of a guy you’d never heard of a few days ago, then it’s time to find another team to root for. Not saying he’s going to be good. but, he’s not Phil, and he’s not Mills. So give him a shot.

    53. Ntilakilla

      That’s why I said I’m “neutral” earlier on him – because we don’t know his philosophy for sure.

      You practically called him Steve Mills because he’s isn’t “into analytics” and because people like him around the league.

    54. Ntilakilla

      Holy Moly. Give the guy a chance. If you are so pessimistic that you have to find reasons to fault a hire of a guy you’d never heard of a few days ago, then it’s time to find another team to root for. Not saying he’s going to be good. but, he’s not Phil, and he’s not Mills. So give him a shot.

      Pretty much this. But he’s not into analytics, so he’s another Steve Mills.

    55. stratomatic is despondent

      Which is why the Noah and Lee deals were so bonkers. Signing guys to long term deals in their 30s when you’re going to be bad for at least the first two years of their deals (i.e. the years they are most likely to be good) is just nuts.

      IMO those are 2 very different contracts.

      Noah was a terrible contract because of age and injury history. The risk was very high that he would not recover good enough form to come even close to justifying his contract. Then they’d be back in the same position as with Amare (although the Amare contract from Walsh was a LOT worse in terms of cap hit).

      Lee is about an average SG. He is healthy, compensated fairly, well liked, and respected around the league. I know you don’t think so, but he can be traded. However, they like him and want to keep him unless they get a really good return. If they don’t, he’ll eventually expire and they’ll get the cap space back. There is no downside to having Lee on the team.

      It would be nice if we could fill out our team with all draft picks, young guys with upside on attractive contracts, etc… but that’s not the way it works. You have to put together a functional team among the players that are available and that want to come play for your team. If you don’t do that you are the 76ers. Then, even if you are brilliant, you get fired because the press calls you an idiot and many of the fans gets frustrated.

    56. Ntilakilla

      I don’t see why China is a bigger barrier than France, especially in NYC. I mean if Yao Ming can make it in Houston…

      Linguistically, the difference between Mandarin Chinese/Cantonese and English is far greater than the difference between English and French, which share common Latin derivatives. In the European school system, English, French and German are readily taught. I am not sure if the same is as true in China.

    57. Ntilakilla

      oh come on. Twitter is telling me we gave up a 2019 2nd round pick for Perry.

      We can buy one of those.

    58. JK47

      oh come on. Twitter is telling me we gave up a 2019 2nd round pick for Perry.

      Is there such thing as an “executive option?” Because we’re gonna want to give him one of those

    59. Ntilakilla

      Kings and Knicks have reached an agreement on Scott Perry's NY GM deal, I'm told. Kings get a 2019 2nd round pick & cash considerations.— Sam Amick (@sam_amick) July 14, 2017

    60. ClashFan

      Divac: We’d like some cash for letting you have Scott Perry.
      Mills: Really? You don’t want a pick?
      Divac: Oh yeah, I almost forgot. We want a 2nd round pick AND cash.
      Mills: Deal!

    61. 2FOR18, understands math

      “Lee is about an average SG. He is healthy, compensated fairly, well liked, and respected around the league. I know you don’t think so, but he can be traded. However, they like him and want to keep him unless they get a really good return. If they don’t, he’ll eventually expire and they’ll get the cap space back. There is no downside to having Lee on the team.”

      So you’re telling me they gave Hardaway 71 mil to be the back up 2? That they purposely signed Hardaway to that contract, and purposely are keeping Lee despite the demand for his services?
      You’re the same guy who doesn’t buy that the Knicks could have sign and traded melo to the Bulls because you have no proof, but you’re certain Lee has trade value, despite their being no reason to keep him?

    62. stratomatic is despondent

      For those wondering about Perry, let’s aside all the bad draft picks associated with the teams he’s been part of . Wasn’t it him that just brought him Zach Randolph, Vince Carter, and George Hill to be part the rebuilding process in Sacramento. So if you hated the hybrid approach that Phil was using, you are really going to hate Perry if he does deals like those in NY.

    63. Grocer

      @12, nice!

      Perry is mostly here for his connections and his ability to make disorganized front offices work smoothly.

      The last half of this is my hope. That he can at least make us a rational, policy based organization in terms of goals and suchlike. Right now it feels like a dictatorship. For example, the medical staff’s primary priority should be player health, not loyalty to Dolan or Phil or whoever the boss is.

    64. stratomatic is despondent

      So you’re telling me they gave Hardaway 71 mil to be the back up 2? That they purposely signed Hardaway to that contract, and purposely are keeping Lee despite the demand for his services?
      You’re the same guy who doesn’t buy that the Knicks could have sign and traded melo to the Bulls because you have no proof, but you’re certain Lee has trade value, despite their being no reason to keep him?

      I’m telling you Mills was an idiot for signing Hardaway to that big of a contract to begin with, but he’s a double idiot given the Knicks supposedly told Lee and his agent that he was safe in NY because they like him.

      It wasn’t like they signed THJ and had plans to trade Lee but couldn’t find anyone to take him. They probably barely even thought that out other than ” we can play both of them together”.

      Lee can definitely be traded. but that does not mean that at this moment in time there is a player available that can play a position they need that they want to commit to and like better.

    65. 2FOR18, understands math

      If you have any spare time, go through the league’s rosters, and tell me who would trade for Lee. The only teams I found that made any sense are OKC and, possibly, Milwaukee. I just can’t imagine what the plan here is with all of these 2 guards, so it’s making me extra salty about this team.

    66. Ntilakilla

      For those wondering about Perry, let’s aside all the bad draft picks associated with the teams he’s been part of . Wasn’t it him that just brought him Zach Randolph, Vince Carter, and George Hill to be part the rebuilding process in Sacramento. So if you hated the hybrid approach that Phil was using, you are really going to hate Perry if he does deals like those in NY.

      The majority of those contracts are two year deals. I think they aren’t going to hamper that franchise moving forward. The point was to give some veteran leadership on what is a very young, green team.

    67. TheOakmanCometh

      I hate the idea of giving up picks as compensation for hiring a GM with a shaky track record who won’t even be the primary decision-maker, but at least the pick is likely to be very low in the 2nd round. We’re getting the 2 worst 2nd round picks of Orlando, Cleveland, and Houston, which almost certainly means Cleveland and Houston. One of those is now going to Sacramento.

    68. Bruno Almeida

      re: Perry likes veterans.

      there’s two sides to this, I guess:

      1) he brought veterans to the Kings because he believes in veteran presence, mentoring and tutoring.
      2) he brought veterans because he thinks a NBA team should maximize their win total as much as possible over anything else, and getting veterans is the best way to do it.

      if it’s number 1 Im fine, the Knicks have plenty veteran presence with Noah, Lee, Thomas etc so that he might not be pressed to add any others.

      if it’s 2, we’re fucked.

    69. JK47

      Wasn’t it him that just brought him Zach Randolph, Vince Carter, and George Hill to be part the rebuilding process in Sacramento. So if you hated the hybrid approach that Phil was using, you are really going to hate Perry if he does deals like those in NY.

      Those deals make more sense for Sacramento, which already has a boatload of young, controllable pieces. They have prospects at every position: at PG they have Fox and Mason III. At SG they have Hield and Malachi Richardson. At SF they have Justin Jackson. At PF they have Harry Giles and Skal Labissiere. At C they have Papagiannis and Cauley-Stein. They have legitimate prospects up the wazoo. It makes sense to me to bring in a few veteran guys on short contracts to fill out the rest of the roster.

      The Carter and Randolph contracts are relatively cheap and short. Carter’s is 1/8 and Randolph’s is 2/24. Those are not crippling contracts like the 4/72 albatross Phil handed out to Noah. The Hill contract is their one big expenditure, but even that is a value contract: it’s a 3/57 contract, but this is key: the final year is only $1M guaranteed. They essentially have a team option on that third year.

      It’s the hybrid approach, but executed competently.

    70. TheOakmanCometh

      This reminds me of when the Knicks hired Hornacek. We were all worried about getting Rambis or Phil making a terrible hire and he picked someone reasonable. Now the Knicks picked a reasonable GM too.

      This is a good analogy. Perry is an under the radar candidate with a mixed record, just like Hornacek. But I think Hornacek’s experience has been instructive. In less than a year, he got bullied into submission by his incompetent, power-hungry boss (Phil). Phil told him who to hire, who to promote, and what offense to run. Hornacek had to just sit there and nod.

      Perry could well end up the same way. He’s already been told he can’t hire his own staff. We know Mills wants final say over basketball decisions, and we also know that Mills makes terrible basketball decisions. Then there’s Dolan, who could step in any time with his brilliant advice. These clowns won’t hesitate to walk all over Perry.

    71. Frank

      I really like what Sac did this offseason. Fox was a great (obvious) pick. It’s possible they didn’t like Zach Collins, Monk, Mitchell, or Kennard that much, and given they have multiple prospects at those positions (and NOT at SF), it makes sense to get Justin Jackson and then take a flyer on Giles, who before his last injury was predicted by many to be the #1 pick in this draft.

      Like JK47 mentioned, I like the length of the veteran contracts as well as the flexibility they built into the Hill contract. I would love to think that was Perry’s doing, although they did do that with the Afflalo contract pre-Perry so there might be a cap guy in their FO that’s more responsible for that.

      I dunno – sometimes the devil you don’t know is actually better than the devil you do know. We know that Mills, Houston, Warkentien, and co. have no creativity when it comes to contracts, and have zero ability to accurately assess the market. The bar for Perry to jump over is pretty low. I hate giving up a 2nd round pick (even one in the 50s) but it’s TOTALLY worth it if Perry is even average at his job.

    72. Frank

      Speaking of Hornacek — when is Rambis going to be let go? I can’t possibly imagine that he’s going to be kept.

    73. ClashFan

      Well, if he likes a veteran presence, the Knicks already have it with Lee, Noah, OQ, LT and (God forbid) Melo. Too much of it.

      So, he doesn’t need to trade for or sign any more veterans. The problem here is there is still not enough young building blocks. Another tank year is really needed, and picking up another first rounder for next year would really be nice.

      First priority, though, is to trade Melo. And really, with Timmy and Ron signed, Lee needs to go.

    74. TheOakmanCometh

      It’s great that Perry is getting kudos from people around the league. He seems to be respected and liked by the media and, more importantly, agents. That’s a plus.

      However, if his greatest strength is luring free agents because of his relationship-building skills, that has limited value for the Knicks. We don’t need free agents right now. In fact, we don’t really want free agents. We should be building through the draft and developing our young players and suffering through a couple of 25-win seasons to get to a good place in a few years. THEN we can sign free agents.

      So I’m nervous that Perry will start signing free agents because he’s good at it. And I’m especially nervous that he’ll sign older free agents who will take time away from Frank/Zing/Willy (and of course future All-Star Ron Baker).

    75. Frank

      So I’m nervous that Perry will start signing free agents because he’s good at it. And I’m especially nervous that he’ll sign older free agents who will take time away from Frank/Zing/Willy (and of course future All-Star Ron Baker).

      Oakman – have no fear. We don’t have any cap space. Thanks Steve Mills!

    76. Brian Cronin

      I don’t like them giving up a second rounder for Perry but, as noted, it’s almost guaranteed to be a very bad second round pick and secondly, at least it is normal behavior. When they were just asking for cash, I was like, “What the fuck?” Now that they got a draft pick, that makes more sense, at least.

    77. KnickfaninNJ

      Linguistically, the difference between Mandarin Chinese/Cantonese and English is far greater than the difference between English and French, which share common Latin derivatives. In the European school system, English, French and German are readily taught. I am not sure if the same is as true in China.

      I spend a lot of time in China. Nowadays, everyone in China seems to take English in school. Older Chinese don’t speak any, but if you ask a young person on the street, say, for directions, they all speak some English.

    78. stratomatic is despondent

      Oakman – have no fear. We don’t have any cap space. Thanks Steve Mills!

      lmao

    79. 2FOR18, understands math

      Wait so Sacramento essentially has a 3rd year Team option on Hill, and we gave Hardaway a 4th year player option?
      How is it possible to be this incompetent? I know I’m always negative on here, but all of these bad moves really add up after 17 years. Overpays, unnecessary contract clauses, redundancy…. it never ends.

    80. TheOakmanCometh

      The Kings’ veteran signings weren’t bad in a vacuum. None is making crazy money or is signed for a long time. But I do think they were bad for the Kings.

      They just drafted Fox, but now he’s going to sit behind Hill for 2, maybe 3 years of his rookie contract. They already had a crowded rotation at PF/C with Skal, Papagiannis, WCS, Giles, and Koufos, then they add Z-Bo. Why? Shouldn’t they be seeing what they have in the young guys so they can decide who to build around?

      Adding Vince wasn’t as bad because it’s just for 1 year and they had no real SFs. That would have been enough of a veteran presence. They didn’t need 3 old guys taking playing time away from their young guys and hurting their tank.

    81. Ntilakilla

      Hill has averaged around 55 games played a season in the past three seasons. Fox will have plenty of opportunity to get acclimated and play with him on the team. Randolph is a 20 minute a game player at this point in his career. You’re hiring these guys for what they know, not to dominate minutes. At least with these guys on the team you’re telling the young players that they have to earn their minutes.

    82. Frank

      Hill can play either guard position. Fox won’t be ready to play 35 min/game, so between both guard positions Hill can easily find 25-30 minutes.

      from my perspective – the Kings have been bad forever. They have tons of young talent. it’s ok to try to win. young players can develop even while teams are trying to win with veterans getting some minutes.

      Now if Z-Bo and Vince are getting 35 min/night, then I agree with you. But it’s prob not bad for the kids to play 20-25 min/night at first.

    83. bobneptune

      I spend a lot of time in China. Nowadays, everyone in China seems to take English in school. Older Chinese don’t speak any, but if you ask a young person on the street, say, for directions, they all speak some English.

      I’ve literally taught over 2,000, half hour English classes to Chinese kids since February this year and every public school kid takes English from ist grade on. Some can barely communicate, but every child that has any ambition takes a boat load of English tutoring (me) because USA is still the largest market in the world.

    84. DRed

      The Carter and Randolph contracts are relatively cheap and short. Carter’s is 1/8 and Randolph’s is 2/24. Those are not crippling contracts like the 4/72 albatross Phil handed out to Noah. The Hill contract is their one big expenditure, but even that is a value contract: it’s a 3/57 contract, but this is key: the final year is only $1M guaranteed. They essentially have a team option on that third year.

      It’s the hybrid approach, but executed competently.

      Yeah, I would have done some things differently, but I think everything except the Randolph contract is reasonable.

    85. 2FOR18, understands math

      The Kings are like the poor man’s Celtics; they could use some consolidation. I can see them going with a 3 guard lineup a lot of the time.

    86. Cock Jowles, Not a Knicks Fan Because Fuck This Team

      Everyone knows that Zach Randolph turns 36 in 2 days, right? $12M for a guy in his age 36 and 37 seasons? Nah, not good. Of course it’s not as bad as Noah’s, but nothing really is (except probably Chandler Parsons).

    87. Jack Bauer

      It’s hard to be critical of Perry yet. I for one am ecstatic we didn’t promote Houston, bring back Isaiah, or let Mills be both GM and POBO. Sounds like a step in the right direction even if he’s mediocre.

      Mediocre > Terrible

    88. stratomatic is despondent

      The Carter and Randolph contracts are relatively cheap and short. Carter’s is 1/8 and Randolph’s is 2/24. Those are not crippling contracts like the 4/72 albatross Phil handed out to Noah. The Hill contract is their one big expenditure, but even that is a value contract:

      Not much reason to debate Noah. Even Rosen admits his contract should have been shorter and cheaper.

      I like the Kings draft this year, but that team is further away from the playoffs in the west than we are in the east. So according to accepted logic why not tank another year and get a much better draft pick to try for a superstar? You never know who out of all their prospects is actually going to become a good player. Most of them are either not very good so far or untested.

      Obviously, I am just playing devils advocate.

      I have no problem with them picking up a few vets as long as the contracts are fair and can be moved (like Lee) or are very short (like Derrick Williams, Jennings, Afflalo, etc…).

      Not sure I like Randolph, but it’s tolerable at 2 years.

      The fundamental disagreement I have with many on the board is that imo any approach can work if it is executed properly, but a “just draft” philosophy has demonstrably failed for dozens of teams over and over again. To a large extend it’s a crap shoot.

      I think no matter what stage the team is at, you should look at the draft, trades, and free agency and accumulate assets wherever the best bargains are available at that time. Even if a guy is not on the same timetable, if he’s a good value you can always move him later in some deal that gets you what you really want the way Morey, Ainge, and other good GMs do. Our problem is patience and competency.

    89. Brian Cronin

      Fascinating. So he mentions that they “got him to agree to trade.” That makes it sound like a relatively new thing, doesn’t it? Do you think he was basically pulling a “Nah, I won’t go” move with Phil?

    90. Bruno Almeida

      “According to an executive of one the four teams involved in the proposed trade, all sides, including Anthony, are frustrated over reports that Knicks president Steve Mills is having second thoughts. In fact, ESPN reported that the Knicks want the chance to talk to Anthony about possibly remaining in New York, which at this stage in the process seems highly unlikely”

      Nice! Thanks Mills!

    91. Bruno Almeida

      at least Mills’ incompetence might have been so egregious that it got Melo pissed and wanting to leave anyway.

    92. Frank

      I still think there’s a very good chance Melo is dealt to Houston this offseason. There just isn’t any hurry at this point, and it makes sense for Perry to come in, get his take on the situation, and see if any better deal can be worked out. I’m sure Melo got all excited to go hang out with CP3 and Harden, but he has a NO TRADE clause, not a TRADE ME WHERE AND WHEN I WANT clause.

    93. chrisk06811

      So, if you take a no trade clause, so you get to say Yes to a trade. Plus you take a clause that gives you a shit load if $$ if you are traded (and you agree)……shouldn’t you STFU if you are NOT traded?

    94. chrisk06811

      I think the best case scenario is for Melo to average 8 rebs / 22 pts a game for us for the 1st 20 games.

      If you trade him now, the best you are going to do is a mediocre prospect and a mid level or worse 1st rounder, PLUS some shitty salaries. that’s not that much.

      If you wait 20 games, maybe Hou gets off to a slow start. Maybe Por panics. Maybe Love gets hurt. Maybe Utah decides to spend some $$. Maybe the clips get desperate.

      So, tell Melo, he can sit on the bench if he wants, or he can play his ass off and add to his trade value.

    95. 2FOR18, understands math

      Chandler Parsons was a good player and 26 or 27 when he was signed by a win now team.. The Noah contract was worse – completely unjustifiable and panned by everyone who understands math.

    96. Ntilakilla

      Fascinating. So he mentions that they “got him to agree to trade.” That makes it sound like a relatively new thing, doesn’t it? Do you think he was basically pulling a “Nah, I won’t go” move with Phil?

      Pretty much.

    97. Bruno Almeida

      the problem with waiting on Melo to see if his value goes up was that the same arguments were made last trade deadline.

      oh, it’s great the Knicks didn’t trade him now, now Cleveland will get desperate for Melo because they got stomped in the finals, the Celtics will see him as a solution to get over the Cavs, the Clippers will get desperate, he can play well in the last stretch of games and up his value…

      and well, none of those things happened, no team seems to be more desperate than they were to land Melo and there’s very little evidence to believe a “dismayed” Melo will produce numbers that will increase his trade value in any way.

      the offers are what they are, there are only 2 possible trade partners, Cleveland and Houston won’t magically create picks and young assets out of thin air if Melo plays better.

      either get rid of him for whatever package is available or keep him already and let’s suffer another year.

      staying on the fence like this is clearly not helping anyone.

    98. Ntilakilla

      @110

      That’s all part of playing chicken. You keep betting the other side will cave. I am glad the Knicks aren’t caving in. We’re not going anywhere and we’re paying Melo good money to underachieve here. Let him sweat it out.

    99. Cock Jowles, Not a Knicks Fan Because Fuck This Team

      Chandler Parsons was a good player and 26 or 27 when he was signed by a win now team.. The Noah contract was worse – completely unjustifiable and panned by everyone who understands math.

      I’m talking more about current value. When Noah’s on the floor, he’s a good player for his rebounding and interior presence. Parsons has been alternately injured and terrible and has more money owed to him. Noah’s was one of the worst signings in the modern era, but Parsons’ contract looks terrible ex post facto.

    100. 2FOR18, understands math

      The Knicks are playing chicken with a Prius. The Rockets have a tank.

    101. The Glass Half Rebuilt

      JR Smith and Tristan Thompson played chicken with the Cleveland Cavaliers the past two off seasons. They won a combined $135M. I like the idea of playing chicken with Cleveland.

      Walking away from the table hurts Morey and the Cleveland FO in the eyes of CP3 and LeBron. The longer this deal takes is the more impatient those two will become.

    102. chrisk06811

      I’m not seeing you wait to see if his value goes up. I’m saying, it looks like you are going to get very little for him right now, so why rush to deal him?

    103. geo

      considering just how poorly our team has performed for so many years, it always amazes me how we’re able to stay in the news…

    104. Bruno Almeida

      I understand Chris, but what’s the point of waiting if the offers are not getting better?

      Reports that Melo is angry and dismayed over getting told he’s leaving and then that it’s not a done deal will only strengthen the Rockets position… what I’m saying is, either tell him he’s being traded and accept that he won’t bring much back, or tell him he’s staying and work with that.

      it’s the Knicks we’re talking about, everyone has the leverage against this franchise.

    105. djphan

      having melo leave for nothing wouldn’t be the worst thing in the world… if there isn’t an ok trade out there we shouldn’t take it just for the sake of it…

    106. Brian Cronin

      Was he even on their infamous combo forward board? :) I know that was before Hammond, but it’s still funny.

    107. chrisk06811

      Bruno, my issue is that in the deals that have been discussed, we are getting almost nothing back for him. The risk (Harkness at $10M / year and a very late 1st, maybe) is worth the possibility we will get more for him later.

    108. Zanzibar

      According to an executive of one the four teams involved in the proposed trade, all sides, including Anthony, are frustrated over reports that Knicks president Steve Mills is having second thoughts. In fact, ESPN reported that the Knicks want the chance to talk to Anthony about possibly remaining in New York, which at this stage in the process seems highly unlikely”

      Let’s look at the likely structure of a trade:
      Houston…..Melo
      Knicks……..Harkless, non-guaranteed contracts
      Portland….Anderson, picks and or/players like Hartenstein, Qi, KOQ
      4th team….Leonard, picks and or/players like Hartenstein, Qi, KOQ

      Who would be balking at this deal? Certainly not Mills if he really wanted to get rid of Melo! No it would have to be Morey (who doesn’t want to give up so many picks or players OR Portland/4th team who believe they are not receiving sufficient picks or players). Mills is the last one who should be holding up any deal. And yet report is Mills is the problem. Does that make any sense?

      No but: Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth. I refer you to my conspiracy theory.

    109. Brian Cronin

      But we have no real idea what is being offered. The current offer might involve the Knicks having to take back Leonard.

    110. Bruno Almeida

      I understand where youre coming from Chris, I just don’t think the Knicks are getting more for Melo anytime after this off-season.

      in fact, I think its more likely he comes into the season totally checked out and sucks even more, plummeting whatever’s left of his value to a place where he’s 100% untradeable.

    111. jkhar

      Its pretty ironic that Melo is frustrated. For all this time he had control, when he insisted he wanted to stay in NY. Now that he’s shown his hand and stated his preference to leave, the Knick’s pull him from the trade and won’t buy him out. So now he is in limbo like Phil was for the last year. Kind of funny…

    112. Zanzibar

      But we have no real idea what is being offered. The current offer might involve the Knicks having to take back Leonard.

      That would be so if only 3 teams were involved but the quote says 4 teams so the inference from that statement from one of the team’s executives is the 4th team is ready to take Leonard.

    113. Donnie Walsh

      Non-Knicks related question:

      What kind of a package could Memphis get from Boston for Marc Gasol, and is Memphis crazy not to cash in this summer rather than phoning in a “competitive” season in the western conference next year?

    114. Bruno Almeida

      @131
      it’s an interesting question… the Grizzlies are completely devoid of young talent, and they have major commitments to Marc, Conley and Parsons, but no other large contracts…

      at this point Parsons is sunk cost, and Conley is probably too expensive to be traded for fair value.

      If I was Memphis I would offer Gasol for Jaylen Brown + Jae Crowder + the Nets pick, or even Horford + the Nets pick if Boston thinks Gasol and Horford are redundant.

      anything less than the Nets pick is not worthy for a team like Memphis unless they want to trade Conley away too, not likely.

    115. GoNyGoNyGo

      There are some really good posts here today. Some responses…
      On Perry not being into analytics….
      The first thing I think to myself is that he can’t do the math or deal with numbers. Not good. The real issue is that in this day and age you need to have the right personality and also understand the analytics. That’s what being a 2-way player at the GM lever is about.
      On pulling back on the Melo trade….
      I agree that pumping the brakes on trading Melo is the right move. I just hope that the motivation is to drive up the price, piss off Melo or both. I hope it isn’t because Perry actually wants Melo. I would make Melo BEG for the trade. Make it a battle of wills. Agree to trade him the moment he signs an agreement to accept any trade. Make it so that he’ll want to play for Latvia before playing for the Knicks any more.

      And all this nonsense that Mills put the brake on the deal is absurd. It’s too much of a coincidence that we pulled back on the trade at exactly at the same moment that the Perry deal was announced.

    116. 2FOR18, understands math

      So melo was upset that Phil suggested he should move on, and now he’s upset he’s not moving on to a team with a coach he previously ran out of town. Talk abut knicksy! I predict an unsettling tweet from a Porzingis brother shortly.

    117. ClashFan

      I’d be curious to know what Jackson and Mills supposedly butted heads about?

      I guess it’ll all be in Jackson’s next book.

    118. stratomatic is despondent

      Like I’ve been saying from the start, the biggest problem in any deal for Melo with Houston is that there are a lot of bad contracts and few if any assets to attach to them to make it palatable. That goes double if you are trying to bring in Portland with Leonard and Harkless.

      No one is dumb enough to take Anderson (one of Morey’s many errors over the years) unless something really good is attached and no one should want Leonard or be tripping over themselves to get Harkless at his price either.

      If the choice for NY is Anderson or Harkless/Leonard by far the smartest thing to do is punt.

      Two years of Melo and then all that cap space is superior to 3 years of either of those choices. It also has the upside possibility of Melo opting out after 1 year. Then we’d have a ton of cap space after 1 year that should theoretically give us better values than any of those combinations.

      I still think that’s why Phil was talking “no buy out” publicly but was rumored to have been fired because he wanted to buy Melo out privately. He already KNEW at the trade deadline there were no good offers for Melo. He was willing to eat 2 years of Melo’s contract because cap space in 2 years is better than taking players you do not want for 3 years.

    119. The Glass Half Rebuilt

      It’s not that the Knicks don’t want to move Melo. The Knicks aren’t dumb enough to take on a worse contract than Melo’s current deal, and Ryan Anderson’s contract would be a terrible situation for us considering we have Joakim Noah’s deal currently on the books.

      If nobody in the NBA wants to take Ryan Anderson’s contract then we should walk away from the Rockets. I don’t blame the Knicks for trying to make it work with Melo instead of compounding the mistake by taking on $60M in a useless contract for our roster. The big problem is the teams that are willing to take Ryan Anderson are going to want the assets that come along with renting their cap space, but we want the assets for giving up the best player.

      It’s a tough situation, but I think Morey is motivated to get out of Anderson’s deal enough that it ends up working out.

    120. stratomatic is despondent

      So melo was upset that Phil suggested he should move on, and now he’s upset he’s not moving on to a team with a coach he previously ran out of town.

      I thought that whole “moving on” narrative with the biggest crock of crap the media came up with (among an endless list of bull).

      I can’t imagine being Melo, wanting to be on a winning team in my twilight years, looking at this Knicks roster, having the president of the team tell me it might be better for both sides if I moved on, and being upset. That’s exactly what a best friend would tell you (if he was actually your friend) in case you weren’t thinking clearly on your own. Assuming you were thinking clearly on your own, you would chuckle and say “Thanks captain obvious”.

    121. stratomatic is despondent

      I can’t see know how any coach, GM, president, owner or even player can hope to compete these days without the help of advanced analytics. There are guys out there with very high IQs, passionate dedication, and basketball knowledge that will give them an edge over anyone that is relying on intuition, feel, athletic ability etc.. alone. The relationship between physical and intellectual talent is shifting in all sports. That doesn’t mean experience, intuition, feel, what you see etc… are useless, but why throw any tools away.

    122. The Glass Half Rebuilt

      Also, I believe nothing Frank Isola and the Daily News say about the Knicks. They just said a Melo trade was on the 2 yard line. Now Melo is pissed. Whatever. Their stories are never backed up by other media outlets.

    123. Totes McGoats

      “Knicks tab Perry as GM: Cites “culture change””

      The most damning part of that headline is the quotation marks. That’s an actual headline from ESPN, and they know this supposed culture change is a joke!

      In another life I was a newly promoted ASSISTANT MANAGER at Blockbuster Video. The store I was promoted in was just fine. There was a troubled store maybe about 10 minutes away. So my district manager decides to move me there to help out. This particular store had low sales numbers, a high number of delinquent accounts, and no store manager. When I got there, I saw how bad the culture was and decided that I couldn’t be a part of it. You know what I did? I got permission from my district manager to look over applications and interview prospective employees. But that’s as far as the empowerment went. They also had a script that I was supposed to follow during these interviews. I didn’t follow the script at all. I had a vision in my head of how I would run the store and how we could turn things around. So during my interviews, I asked questions according to what I wanted in that store..my vision. Then I hired the people who fit my vision. I didn’t have authority to do that so I had to fight for it. Along the way, I FIRED EVERYONE who was a part of the previously rotted culture- I didn’t care how good they were as people on a personal level. Basically the DM had to accept my personnel choices and for about a month or so, I had to work long hours with rare days off to ensure my vision came to fruition. You know what happened? My new store turned around and became a leader in the district. That is how you change the culture of a place of business. Dolan should be ashamed that he let a rotted culture stick around so long. “Full Autonomy Phil” still had to deal with the fucks who created said culture. He was never gonna be able to change it because Dolan wanted his stooges.

      I feel bad for Perry.

    124. stratomatic is despondent

      http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=y7vmnkg8

      I think this trade makes sense for all parties. The Suns also get a future first from each of Portland and Houston. We get 2nd round picks back, and two starters to make a playoff push with.

      I like that one for us, Portland, and Houston. The borderline team in that scenario is Phoenix. They are giving up a very good player and taking on a bad contract for two 1st round picks – at least one of which will probably be a very late one.

      Would you take 3 years of Anderson for late first rounder?

      Would you give up Bledsoe for a late first rounder?

      I don’t know, but that’s a damn good idea imo.

    125. Z-man

      PS I like Bledsoe, especially at those numbers. He’d be the best PG we’ve had since Derek Harper.

    126. stratomatic is despondent

      Also, I believe nothing Frank Isola and the Daily News say about the Knicks. They just said a Melo trade was on the 2 yard line. Now Melo is pissed. Whatever. Their stories are never backed up by other media outlets.

      Isola hates Dolan, hates MSG politics, hated Phil Jackson etc… It impacts his writing so much it makes him impossible to use as a source because everything he writes is clouded by personal agenda.

    127. The Glass Half Rebuilt

      Phoenix is the toughest sell but they get Jaramaz, Hartenstein, a Portland 2018, AND a Houston 1st round pick. I don’t see how they refuse that considering their tank ambitions. Portland gets a salary dump and they clear some minutes for Aminu and Crabbe to get on the floor. Houston gets Melo and a salary dump. We get two starters that play both ends, and we replace our Brooklyn-born starting small forward for a Queens-born starting small forward.

    128. Ntilakilla

      As the person who left the Asshola link here, I also want to say that I believe less than 1% of anything he writes as facts. But I presented his article because it is a part of the news informing this team right now and merits discussion on that basis at least.

    129. Z-man

      On the other hand, I absolutely HATE the idea of Brandon Knight at his numbers. He’s just the kind of one-hit wonder that Isiah would drool over.

    130. Ntilakilla

      “I’m confident that Steve is the right person to take on this role and ensure that we return to one of the elite teams of the NBA. He’s got an ambitious plan that centers on building a young team focused on player development, communication and teamwork,” Dolan said. “His decision to bring Scott on as general manager is a critical first step in transforming this franchise. Scott brings tremendous skill and experience in helping to build winning basketball teams.

      “I want to thank Jim for having the confidence in me to lead this team at such a critical time,” said Mills, who welcomed Perry and stressed his skill and experience. “Scott will immediately begin to put together a basketball operations department that is among the best in the league. We will all be united in implementing our strategy, which is to build our team by developing young players, emphasizing athleticism, length and defense. We have several rising young stars in the organization and we expect to add more young talent.”

    131. Ntilakilla

      According to a source close to trade talks with the Rockets, the Knicks, with no deal on the table with Houston that makes sense, are hitting the reset button. They are regrouping, and have stalled talks with Houston general manager Daryl Morey.

      According to the source, Knicks acting president Steve Mills wants to meet with Anthony to see where his head is at before proceeding any further.

      The primary hope, according to the source, is Anthony decides to open up his wish list beyond the Rockets and Cavaliers, as he has a no-trade clause. The Celtics would’ve been in play, but they traded for Gordon Hayward.

      http://nypost.com/2017/07/13/knicks-put-carmelo-trade-talks-on-ice-for-now/

    132. Bruno Almeida

      I mean, it’s all good and I’m optimistic on a way about Perry, but Mills saying you expect to focus on young players and player development is something every sensible person would say in this situation.

      I just want to see it in practice. Not every young player is a shiny bundle of potential, and how you go about bringing specific young talent and the cost at which they come matters a lot.

      Nobody is complaining about THJ and Baker being too old, for example, but about the overpaying of players who, albeit young, have not shown much promise.

      It’s the same thing with every Knicks off-season, I read a lot of things I like, but the actions rarely follow the script, or do so in very flawed ways.

      The good thing is that because of Phil’s incompetence there’s not much either Mills or Perry could do to fill this team with bad contracts or lackluster veterans, so the Knicks are kinda going young if they like it or not. I just wanna see it in action.

    133. Ntilakilla

      I like the idea of talking to Melo and getting him to broaden his horizons on where he’s willing to go. If we could convince him to go to an OKC, Miami or Utah it would be fucking miraculous. And even though its a 0.0000000000000000000000001% longshot, its worth Perry having that discussion with him since the alternative is Houston and Cleveland exploiting us in any deal or buyout they’d accept.

    134. Z-man

      If Melo were smart, he’d include the Sixers on his list. Not that they would want him, but they have oodles of cap room and just might gel into a force. Imagine:
      Fultz
      Simmons
      Redick
      Saric
      Melo
      Embiid
      Covington
      Amir
      Okafor, Sergio, T.J., etc

      That is a potential playoff monster roster in the EC.

    135. Ntilakilla

      Philly would be an interesting choice. Its perfectly aligned in terms of distance between NYC and Baltimore. Plus he could be an elder statesman there, shepherding their ascent in the Eastern Conference. But I doubt he wants to do anything else than play with his Banana Boat buddies.

    136. Z-man

      Or, he should just stay here. Freed up from Phil’s geometric pall, this team could at least be fun.

      The bottom line is, the Rockets aren’t getting to the finals with or without Melo unless GSW has a spate of bad luck. It’s so Knicksy for them to be obsessed with Melo with D’Antoni running the show, fool’s gold to the max.

    137. Ntilakilla

      Or, he should just stay here. Freed up from Phil’s geometric pall, this team could at least be fun.

      I dunno if we’d be fun to watch without a veteran PG to reign Melo in but I do prefer that outcome over assuming more bad contracts for the greater glory of the Houston Rockets and the Banana Boat reunion tour.

    138. DRed

      Yeah, Philly would be good for Melo’s narrative too. Wise old vet leads prodigious neophytes into the playoffs

    139. Z-man

      Here’s a legit question. Assuming that a true tank/rebuild is out of the question and that Melo stays, what about a deal for Bledsoe that includes Noah, maybe a young piece (Jaramaz?) and our 2018 1st round pick?

      PG: Bledsoe, Frank, Baker
      SG: Timmy, Lee, Dotson
      SF: Melo, Lance, Kuz
      PF: KP, Melo, ??? (pick up a waiver flier, preferably a banger)
      C: O’Q, Willy

      Starters: Bledsoe, Timmy, Melo, KP, Willy
      Bench: Baker, Lee, Kuz, Lance, O’Q
      Work in: Frank, Dotson

      Could that team win 40+ games?

    140. Ntilakilla

      So dumping Noah’s salary and getting Bledsoe is not worth a first rounder?

      No. Because we’re not a good team and will be picking in the lottery.

    141. DRed

      Per Begley:

      As the Knicks continue to look for a point guard this offseason, Brandon Knight is one name that came up in conversation with Phoenix recently, per league sources. The Knicks also talked to Phoenix about Eric Bledsoe, league sources confirmed. The Knicks’ level of interest in Knight is unclear but it’s reasonable to assume his name came up in talks surrounding Carmelo Anthony since his salary (roughly $44 million over the next three seasons) would be useful in such a transaction.

    142. djphan

      i thought that we were a decent pg away from being a .500+ team… which after the season we had might sound crazy but if melo has a bounce back year… kp makes that third year leap and wily makes some strides… something like 42-45 wins is well within reach.. esp if hornacek has free reign with the offense…

      but it could also very easily fall apart…. esp depending on bledsoe, melo and kp to play 2300+ minutes… and there’s a question if 42-45 wins is worth it…. with next year’s draft the way it is that’s a pretty tough call…

    143. Z-man

      Well, with Bledsoe, a healthy Melo, an improved KP and Willy, continued improvement from TH2, and same ol’ same ol’ from a healthy Lance, Lee and O’Quinn, are we so surely a lottery team?

    144. Ntilakilla

      Well, with Bledsoe, a healthy Melo, an improved KP and Willy, continued improvement from TH2, and same ol’ same ol’ from a healthy Lance, Lee and O’Quinn, are we so surely a lottery team?

      A lot of ifs in that sentence. I personally don’t expect Melo to be more than a .100 WS/48 player. In his past three seasons he’s averaged a .102 WS/48. So we’re not winning with him as the centerpiece and if he’s staying he’ll be the centerpiece of our offense again, stopping Hornacek from running the offense he wants again. The point of keeping Melo is that he helps our tank.

    145. The Glass Half Rebuilt

      KP and Willy Hernangomez could develop into the Euro-version of Tim Duncan and David Robinson, Frank Ntilikina could turn into the French James Harden, and the Knicks could be coming off their 3rd straight trip to the NBA Finals. I still would hate the idea of trading a 1st round pick. Still.

    146. Ntilakilla

      Going over the advanced metrics its really amazing how badly Melo’s game has degraded since he turned 30 years old. I don’t know people don’t associate Knicks failures of the past 3 years with his declining skills and actually paint him as a victim of a shitty Knicks team rather than its core problem.

    147. Z-man

      OK, to be clear, I’m not advocating for it, just wondering what others thought. I was against trading the 2018 #1 + whatever for Lowry, and would be reluctant to do so this time. However, there is always a tipping point. I wondered if anyone felt that ditching Noah’s albatross and getting a very good PG on a reasonable contract was that tipping point.

      And frankly, I’m worried that too much losing will lead to KP leaving. If the deal were made, Melo’s and Bledsoe’s contracts would fall off the books in 2019 and FAs could be pursued with that $40 mill in cap space.

    148. The Glass Half Rebuilt

      Brandon Knight should never be a New York Knick just because he’s already been embarrassed on a viral level. Joining the Knicks would be the final nail in the coffin. His film is also horrible. The only argument I can think of is that he would be the Josh McCown of PGs, but McCown is only on a 1 year deal.

      Here’s what I think should happen:

      The Knicks revisit the Rockets with one objective in mind; get us Eric Bledsoe. Facilitate a deal where we get Bledsoe and Phoenix takes Anderson. If you can’t do that, then we can’t give you Melo. I’d hang up the phone and make the same offer to Cleveland. Whomever can figure out how Bledsoe becomes a Knick can then get Melo and go about their title hunting.

    149. The Glass Half Rebuilt

      I think Melo has since returned to small forward and thus his pre-NY numbers look about the same as his post-Woodson numbers. Melo played his best ball as a power forward. He was the ultimate stretch four at the time. When Melo goes to his contending team, they’re going to play him at the 4 and he’ll go back to lighting teams up in that role.

    150. bidiong

      I agree tell Morey to go hunting and bring back something good for dinner and we’ll do the deal. Let the good GM do the heavy lifting and don’t overthink it…

    151. Ntilakilla

      And frankly, I’m worried that too much losing will lead to KP leaving. If the deal were made, Melo’s and Bledsoe’s contracts would fall off the books in 2019 and FAs could be pursued with that $40 mill in cap space.

      I am getting sick and tired of this narrative, as if KP is owed a winning shot rather than proving he can lead a winning team. KAT, Embiid, Giannis, etc. are all playing on franchises that have lost more games than they’ve won. Its up to these guys to prove they can lead a team to a winner and if they can’t, won’t or don’t want to prove themselves then they aren’t worth the trouble.

    152. djphan

      next year’s draft is about three players deep…. and one of them is a true center…. bridges is a solid prospect but that’s about it… there’s barely 6 players with solid first rd grades in my eyes…

      tanking next year is going to require a monumental effort and a lot of luck…. you’re almost better off trying to be good…

    153. Ntilakilla

      I think Melo has since returned to small forward and thus his pre-NY numbers look about the same as his post-Woodson numbers. Melo played his best ball as a power forward. He was the ultimate stretch four at the time. When Melo goes to his contending team, they’re going to play him at the 4 and he’ll go back to lighting teams up in that role.

      People also forget that this role wore him the fuck out when he played it for a whole season and contributed to the wear on his knee that needed surgery. I don’t know how much he has left in the tank to be utilized the way Woodson did, especially in the post against larger and more powerful defenders. If he’s in D’Antoni’s system, he won’t have to worry much about it but then again he’ll just be utilized as a glorified 3 point shooter for spacing purposes.

    154. Ntilakilla

      @183

      Can you seriously name me 3 teams who are worse than we are right now?

      Lakers, Sacramento, Minnesota and Philly improved. That already puts us in the bottom 4. Our competition will be the Nets, Magic, and Suns. We can do this.

    155. Bruno Almeida

      see, this is what I’m talking about.

      all the talk about going young and focusing on developing and then boom, interested in Brandon Knight, who’s 25 and also fucking terrible.

      and all the talk about this team making the playoffs makes me yearn for a Jowles hatred filled tirade with posts from the same people predicting the playoffs last year.

    156. Ntilakilla

      all the talk about going young and focusing on developing and then boom, interested in Brandon Knight, who’s 25 and also fucking terrible.

      I thought the point was that they weren’t interested in Brandon Knight and wanted Bledsoe instead.

    157. Bruno Almeida

      This draft has at least Porter (who sounds like he might be a transformational talent), Doncic, Ayton and Bamba, and there’s bound to be at least one or two more guys who step up.

      Bamba and Ayton are both big men, but Id rather have a chance at Doncic and Porter and the backup plan to pick Bamba or Ayton than 32 meaningless wins.

    158. Bruno Almeida

      @187

      who happens to be 27 and not very good at basketball (and with recent injuries too!)

      If we trade our 2018 for Bledsoe with no protections I will snap.

    159. Ntilakilla

      who happens to be 27 and not very good at basketball (and with recent injuries too!)

      Is being 27 a bad thing? BTW, he was a stud in Hornacek’s system.

    160. Bruno Almeida

      @190

      you’re not “young talent” if you’re 27.

      and when was he really a stud? I’m honestly looking at the numbers and seeing a lot of sustained mediocrity.

    161. MSA

      Bledsoe is a Prime-melo-type player.

      He can sustain a good TS% with high USG% being just decent in everything else.

      His contract certainly is friendly these days but my fear is that he’s gonna be grossly overpaid in two years because pointz.

    162. ClashFan

      Please, no Brandon Knight. If our new GM goes after him, then that is a bad sign.

      I like the idea of telling Morey what we want and letting him work on it. Bledsoe would be fine, but I think that really hurts the tank.

      I really want to tank for at least this next year, so I’d tell him that we will settle for Harkless and a #1 pick, take back no salary longer than 2 years, and we will only send Melo out, nothing more.

      If you really want to push it, tell Morey that we want Bledsoe AND Harkless!! Heck’ I’d toss in another guy or two (OQ, Lee?) to get that done.

    163. Bruno Almeida

      Bledsoe played well as a tandem with Dragic in his first season with the Suns, but Dragic was the superior player, and Bledsoe only played 43 games due to injury… he has had only one full season with the Suns (the next one), in which he was decidedly mediocre.

      then another 31 game season, and he was relatively more healthy in last year’s abomination of a team.

      an interesting tidbit: Marbury and Francis were both around the same age (26-28) when they came to the Knicks.

    164. djphan

      lakers and philly improved… but they are still bad teams… it’s likely that at least one of them is worse than us and probably both…

      suns and nets are def worse than us…. magic might be close….

      then you have the bulls and pacers who lost a ton of talent and in my estimates will also make it close…

      so imo at best we’ll end up with the 4th worst record and maybe as low as the 8th or 9th slot again… which is going to depend on a lot of luck either way to catapult into the top 2 which is where you want to be…

    165. Ntilakilla

      lakers and philly improved… but they are still bad teams…

      And we’re not? We don’t even have a PG. Ron Baker is our major ball handler moving forward.

    166. Ntilakilla

      Good news Knicks fans. Jim Dolan said today "marks a culture change for our organization." There you have it. The Knicks are now the Spurs.— Frank Isola (@FisolaNYDN) July 14, 2017

    167. Ntilakilla

      And we had 5 and 3 more wins than they did. You think we’re that far apart? Mind you that Philly was actually trying to tank while we were built to win and they still could only muster 3 more loses without Simmons and half a season from Embiid. Also, think about this. 5 wins kept us from Lonzo Ball, who is now replacing D’Angelo Russell.

    168. bidiong

      I think most of last year’s projections we’re based on if everyone could stay healthy and most people thought that wouldn’t happen so most records predicted ended up being right around or a little higher than we were. Most people thought we would suck last year if I remember correctly. It was all like 30 wins if we’re injured, 40-45 if everyone is healthy predictions.

    169. djphan

      with the lakers i think it’s a pretty big gap… the sixers less so but it’s unclear how much of a jump they make if at all.. two good rookies plus embiid means it could go a lot of diff ways….

      i’m usually slightly optimistic but i do think we’ll be in 34-36 win territory irregardless of what happens to melo… and that’s on the backs of a third year leap of kp which we should actually be hoping for…

    170. Ntilakilla

      with the lakers i think it’s a pretty big gap…the sixers less so but it’s unclear how much of a jump they make if at all.. two good rookies plus embiid means it could go a lot of diff ways….i’m usually slightly optimistic but i do think we’ll be in 34-36 win territory irregardless of what happens to melo… and that’s on the backs of a third year leap of kp which we should actually be hoping for…

      So your analysis is based on KP making a huge jump with Baker as his PG; Embiid, Fultz, and Simmons not contributing to their 3 loss deficit on us from last year, and the difference between Ball and Russell not being significant. Good luck.

    171. Ntilakilla

      LOL

      The explanation of Grunwald’s axing never made sense. Grunwald was too old-school. Mills was big on analytics, had better relations with agents and was a better recruiter as the Knicks sought to re-sign Carmelo Anthony that summer. It seemed as illogical as Dolan frowning upon ex-president Donnie Walsh because he spoke to the media too often.

      I thought Mills wasn’t big on analytics? Which is it?

    172. Brian Cronin

      I thought Mills wasn’t big on analytics? Which is it?

      Remember who’s writing the article. Mills likely has been Berman’s source for years now, so expect a pro-Mills angle in Berman’s pieces going forward.

    173. Bruno Almeida

      as always with this optimistic predictions my reply is the same: why every Knicks young player improves and every veteran stays healthy and the other teams guys don’t?

      yeah, of course we’re hoping for a leap for KP, but the Sixers can have leaps from Embiid and Saric for example (not even counting Fultz and Simmons potential impact), the Lakers could have big improvements from Randle and Ingram, the Magic from Gordon, Hezonja and Payton, the Suns with Chriss, Bender, Booker and Ulis, etc…

      its safe to assume that many of those won’t actually make any considerable leap, but expecting KP and Willy to be better by default and nobody else around the league to improve is massively delusional.

    174. stratomatic is despondent

      If the Knicks wind up with Brandon Knight, we should immediately start discussing the rebuild for the 2020/2021 season and skip over the next 3 years. There’s no way a team with THJ, Noah, and Knight at their salaries for the next 3 years has any hope of building a contender. Even if KP becomes a star, that team will be too crippled to build a deep enough team around him. To be honest, as long as we have Noah at that price (unless of course he miraculously gets healthy and starts playing at a pretty high level), we are very dependent on Hardaway breaking out and becoming an all star. Anything less and we are badly hamstringed with 2 large bad contracts.

    175. Z-man

      Bledsoe is an electric player with multiple skills. He’s a decent rebounder and defender and a versatile scorer. He’s not the answer (npi) at PG, but I think he’s the best possibility of what is remotely available, and injury concerns are somewhat mitigated by the modest size of his contract. If we could swing a deal for Melo that nets Bledsoe and Harkless, that would be a major coup.

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