Statistical Analysis. Humor. Knicks.

Monday, September 25, 2017

Knicks Morning News (2017.07.13)

  • [NYDN] Knicks-Rockets deal to send Carmelo to Houston ‘at 2-yard line’
    (Wednesday, July 12, 2017 9:18:54 PM)

    It might take four teams, but the Knicks and Rockets are reportedly still motivated to get a Carmelo Anthony deal done.

  • [NYDN] Peyton Manning, ESPYs host, opens up show by ripping Knicks
    (Wednesday, July 12, 2017 4:47:38 PM)

    The Knicks were the talk of the opening monologue at the ESPYs.

  • [NYDN] Knicks smart to refuse Ryan Anderson in potential Carmelo deal
    (Wednesday, July 12, 2017 1:24:01 PM)

    Until further notice Ryan Anderson will be known as “the Melo stopper.”

  • [NYPost] Peyton Manning absolutely destroys the Knicks at the ESPYs
    (Wednesday, July 12, 2017 10:42:56 PM)

    Peyton Manning was quite the comedian at the ESPY’s on Wednesday night in Los Angeles. The soon-to-be Hall of Fame quarterback took a dig at Kevin Durant for going to the Warriors, but he first took shots at the woebegone Knicks. “These are all New York Knicks jokes. And these ESPY folks begged me to…

  • [NYPost] The top 10 richest sports franchises revealed
    (Wednesday, July 12, 2017 9:02:32 PM)

    NEW YORK — The Cowboys are worth $4.2 billion, making them the most valuable sports franchise for the second straight year, according to Forbes. In its annual rankings, Forbes placed the Yankees second — up from fourth a year ago — with a value of $3.7 billion. Next are three soccer clubs: Manchester United ($3.69…

  • [NYPost] Knicks asking around as they seek trade for point guard vet
    (Wednesday, July 12, 2017 3:10:37 PM)

    With their cap space ever so limited, Knicks acting president Steve Mills still believes he can land a veteran point guard via trade, according to an NBA source. While Ron Baker broke the bank on his free-agent contract, getting the entire room exception in a two-year, $9 million deal, the Knicks still believe a point…

  • [NYPost] Knicks and Rockets move closer to trade as Pelicans want in
    (Wednesday, July 12, 2017 2:28:39 PM)

    The Rockets will hold a lavish press conference Friday to introduce Chris Paul — with guests including James Harden, coach Mike D’Antoni, GM Daryl Morey and owner Les Alexander. Sources told The Post there will be no surprise announcement, no surprise visitor in Carmelo Anthony. Maybe that will be next week. As much as Anthony’s…

  • [NYPost] Knicks and Rockets look like they want Carmelo trade done
    (Wednesday, July 12, 2017 8:22:07 AM)

    Slowly but surely, the pieces seem to be coming together on a trade to get Carmelo Anthony out of New York and over to Houston. A day after the Rockets’ new star point guard Chris Paul was quoted by The Undefeated as saying, “Man, sit back and wait,” in reference to a potential trade for…

  • [NYTimes] ‘Nobody Leans on Cube’: Big3 Makes Way for McGregor-Mayweather Fight
    (Wednesday, July 12, 2017 5:16:46 PM)

    Ice Cube’s 3-on-3 basketball league has been paid to move its championship across the street, clearing the way for the blockbuster fight.

  • [NYTimes] The Two Men Who Make Money From the N.B.A. in Summer
    (Thursday, July 13, 2017 1:42:55 AM)

    Warren LeGarie and Albert Hall have turned the Las Vegas summer league into a booming business: “We are the Burning Man of basketball.”

  • [NYTimes] The Exciting Life and Lonely Death of a Basketball Vagabond
    (Wednesday, July 12, 2017 11:41:53 AM)

    Jackson Vroman traveled the world, playing ball, partying and drawing friends into his circle. Yet his death at 34 cast a lonely light across his life.

  • [NY Newsday] Knicks working on Carmelo Anthony trade scenarios with Houston Rockets, report says
    (Wednesday, July 12, 2017 9:20:05 PM)

    Carmelo Anthony soon could join his good friend Chris Paul and reunite with his former Knicks coach Mike D’Antoni in Houston.

  • [NY Newsday] NBA cutting back on timeouts in final minutes
    (Wednesday, July 12, 2017 6:50:00 PM)

    LAS VEGAS — The NBA wants to see the finish of its games go a bit more quickly.

  • [NY Newsday] Forbes: Cowboys most valuable sports team, worth $4.2B
    (Wednesday, July 12, 2017 2:21:18 PM)

    The Dallas Cowboys are worth $4.2 billion, making them the most valuable sports franchise for the second straight year, according to Forbes.

  • [ESPN] Sources: Knicks, Rockets working on Melo deal
    (Wednesday, July 12, 2017 11:16:20 AM)

    Sources: Knicks, Rockets working on Melo deal

  • [SNY Knicks] Report: Trade to send Carmelo Anthony to Rockets is nearing completion
    (Wednesday, July 12, 2017 5:41:05 PM)

    The potential trade is “at the two yard line,” reports Frank Isola, who says the Knicks do not want to take any veteran players with long-term contracts back as part of a deal.

  • [SNY Knicks] Report: Knicks contacted Suns about guard Eric Bledsoe
    (Wednesday, July 12, 2017 10:18:56 PM)

    With the Knicks looking to add a guard to mentor rookie Frank Ntilikina, the team has reached out to the Suns about Eric Bledsoe, according to Marc Berman of the New York Post.

  • 382 comments on “Knicks Morning News (2017.07.13)

    1. Zanzibar

      Which would bother you more?

      (1) Willy for Lin.
      (2) Isiah and Mills actually think Evan Turner is a good player and take him in Melo trade.

    2. Brian Cronin

      1 by far. I mean, come on, that’d just be insane. Lin’s, what, 28 or something? And he can opt out of his contract at the end of the year!

    3. Frank

      Working on 4 team trades is hard work, and it’s not even my job.

      Here’s a stab:

      Knicks get: Eric Bledsoe, Ajinca, Quinn Cook, Shawn Long (non guaranteed), Tim Quarterman (non guaranteed)

      Houston gets: Carmelo

      Pelicans get: Ryan Anderson

      Suns get: Frank Jackson, Asik, Kyle O’Quinn, HOU 2020 1st, Pelicans top 5 protected 2018 1st

      Rationale for each:

      NYK – we get off Carmelo. Don’t take any terrible contracts. Get Bledsoe. We don’t get picks but I’d rather that than bad contracts

      Houston – Carmelo for Ryan Anderson and a 2020 1st? yes sir!

      Pelicans – get off Asik’s awful contract, get off Ajinca’s $, Ryan Anderson fits reasonably well there, certainly when one of Cousins and Davis is off the floor. They definitely need shooting.

      PHX – already came out and said they’re not trying to win this year. They take on Asik’s bad contract but get Frank Jackson, O’Quinn who might be flippable, and 2 first round picks

      Thoughts?

    4. Brian Cronin

      It’s a reasonable try, Frank, but, as you note, getting four teams on board is tough and I think the Suns ultimately balk. I think Bledsoe can be traded for picks just by himself if need be (without taking on bad contracts), plus, now that I think about it, I don’t know if I’d be willing to surrender a possible lottery pick if I’m New Orleans just to add Ryan Anderson and lose Asik and Ajinca’s money. A pick, sure, but I’d probably want lottery protection on it, and that would make it even worse for Phoenix.

    5. KnickfaninNJ

      I just remember that Ron Baker was sad to see Phil go and said very nice things about Phil. That must have been the treason he was paid so much, compensation for emotional distress

    6. Zanzibar

      Spears: What can you say about Melo possibly being a teammate if the New York Knicks trade him to Houston or make him a free agent by buying him out?

      Paul: Man, sit back and wait.

      Few years ago when odds were KD was gonna return home and be a Wizard, he tweeted this to nervous fans: Just Wait On It.

      To the board historians, if Melo trade doesn’t happen, has there ever been a trade that was so done as this and then never happened?

    7. Frank

      @5 — hmmmm… ok how about if PHX gets Cam Oliver also, and instead of a top 5 protection, it’s top 8 protection on the Pelicans pick?

      so total haul for PHX = Frank Jackson, Cam Oliver, top 8 protected 2018 Pelicans pick, unprotected 2020 HOU pick (Morey would prob ask for at least top 1 protected). That’s not bad for Eric Bledsoe and taking on Asik’s $. They have tons of cap space.

    8. Brian Cronin

      To the board historians, if Melo trade doesn’t happen, has there ever been a trade that was so done as this and then never happened?

      Chris Paul was literally traded before with the Rockets involved. :) But then the Commish stepped in.

      But yeah, there have been a number of other times where trades got all the way to the 1 yard line and then just never happened. The Knicks were very close to getting Mourning, for instance, before Miami just one-upped them for him.

    9. lavor postell

      Moving Willy for Lin would be a more roundabout way of pissing off KP than how Phil went about it.

      Man, just don’t give up any first round picks and I think I can live with the rest. The Knicks can be capped out for the next 3 years and I’ll be fine so long as we keep our primary means of internal improvement.

    10. KnickfaninNJ

      By the way, no one has commented that the nba has moved to speed up the game by cutting down on timeouts and shortening half time. I like this and like that the league wants to improve the game.

      They also changed the trade deadline to before the all star break. I’m not sure why, but maybe they thought all the trade chatter this year during the all-star break distracted from the all star stuff they want attention on.

      http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/246879/NBA-Reduces-Timeouts-To-Improve-Game-Flow-Pace-Of-Play

    11. Z-man

      This waiting on a Melo trade is killing me. Kinda like it did the first time. Hopefully a better result this time.

    12. Brian Cronin

      I dunno what I think about the timeout issue. It seems like a pretty drastic change to end-of-game strategy, doesn’t it?

    13. KnickfaninNJ

      Yes it does. If you only get two timeouts in the last two minutes, you have to be much wiser about using them. I hope it doesn’t mean some games fizzle out, but we will see.

    14. Brian Cronin

      I like the rules change. Now if only full time outs didn’t last 5 minutes…

      That, though, I imagine is the much bigger issue. Just make the timeouts actually last 20 seconds/1 minute and you’ve more than made up for whatever time issues you’re trying to correct with this change.

    15. lavor postell

      Just make the timeouts actually last 20 seconds/1 minute and you’ve more than made up for whatever time issues you’re trying to correct with this change.

      Commercial $$ BC. Can’t lose too much of that.

    16. stratomatic is despondent

      IMO, the hardest part of this deal is not that there are so many moving parts. It’s that all the moving parts are bad contracts. So everyone must feel like they should be compensated for taking on a bad contract or will be trying to take on the least bad contract. Of course, given the Knicks level of incompetence it’s likely they have no idea that any of these contracts are bad and are operating on some very primitive level of just getting young guys no matter what they make.

      I didn’t love Phil, but I mostly understood what he was thinking and thought the net of it all was good.

      We were well positioned with KP/WH and what appears to be 2 good young draft picks. We had a lot of cap space, all our picks going forward, and an opportunity to trade Melo to improve the long term position.

      If the last 2 weeks are any indication, there’s no way I am going to survive Mills without developing a stress related illness. He’s an obvious idiot.

    17. DavidCorperial

      Don’t forget, they also removed the 20 second timeout, all timeouts are only 75 seconds, they removed an officials timeout from both the 2nd and 4th quarters, and teams only get 2 timeouts in each overtime.

    18. Early Bird

      If the last 2 weeks are any indication, there’s no way I am going to survive Mills without developing a stress related illness. He’s an obvious idiot.

      I can handle the bad teams, I’ve done so for how many years now? It’s the constant fear of stupidity that I can’t handle. Just let me know how stupid we are, I want to see more details (the fact we aren’t seeing more details makes me think it isn’t that close).

    19. Brian Cronin

      Unfortunately, those 5 minutes are major revenue producers.

      But they’ve already decided to cut down on timeouts, so why not leave the timeouts the way they are and just make them shorter? It affects the game less. You can still have commercials.

    20. jkhar

      For everyone calling Mills stupid, you should be pleased that the deal is taking long, as that has to be a sign that we didn’t accept the absolute worst (initial) offer.
      And those of you saying he will no doubt trade our 2018 1st rounder, I don’t see any indication of this possibility. We haven’t heard much from Mills, but what we did hear is that he wants young prospects and to keep our picks.
      This sounds a lot like the rebuild we wanted in the first place, with a focus on developing your own talent. Now just make a decent Melo trade and he had an ok summer. #stillanoptimist

    21. DS

      Anyone remember the original Ewing-to-Seattle trade?

      That was another four team deal. It fell apart once, costing us Vin Baker (which before advance stats seemed like a bummer), then eventually went through when Phoenix stepped in.

    22. Brian Cronin

      This sounds a lot like the rebuild we wanted in the first place, with a focus on developing your own talent. Now just make a decent Melo trade and he had an ok summer. #stillanoptimist

      It does not sound like any sort of rebuild I’ve ever hoped for. I wanted them to use their cap space to acquire draft picks, not to overpay Tim Hardaway Jr. and Ron Baker. Look at what the Nets are doing and see that the Knicks could do similar things and actually have their 2018 first round pick so that tanking actually actively helps them. The Nets’ moves are smart and they don’t even have the benefit of having a 2018 first rounder!

      Mills is a moron and has already had a terrible summer. We just have to hope he doesn’t make things worse with this Melo trade.

    23. Brian Cronin

      Anyone remember the original Ewing-to-Seattle trade?

      That was another four team deal. It fell apart once, costing us Vin Baker (which before advance stats seemed like a bummer), then eventually went through when Phoenix stepped in.

      Oh man, Vin Baker would have made that deal make so much more logical sense. Yeah, he wasn’t that good, but at least they would have gotten a big man back and not Luc freakin’ Longley!

    24. Bruno Almeida

      @24

      or maybe it’s a sign that Morey and the other obviously smarter people involved are not done yet exploiting Mills’ stupidity? That they are not desperate to deal, and know Mills will cave in eventually?

    25. Brian Cronin

      Think about how crazy it is that since Phil got here, despite the team being terrible every year, they’ve acquired one first round draft pick that they didn’t already have and they promptly traded the player they drafted with that pick for Derrick freakin’ Rose and then dramatically overspent to get back the guy that they traded to get that first round pick in the first place.

      If you’re a terrible team and your plans don’t involve trying to add first round picks as much as you can, well, it should be.

    26. thenoblefacehumper

      Think about how crazy it is that since Phil got here, despite the team being terrible every year, they’ve acquired one first round draft pick that they didn’t already have and they promptly traded the player they drafted with that pick for Derrick freakin’ Rose and then dramatically overspent to get back the guy that they traded to get that first round pick in the first place.

      This is why the characterization of Phil as someone who deeply valued the draft never made much sense to me. It’s true that he didn’t trade away a first, but he was barred from doing so in 2015 and it’s not like we know of any specific offers he rejected in 2017. I see no reason to believe he wouldn’t have traded away a first rounder if he thought it was the right move (and he was an idiot, so he almost assuredly would’ve been wrong).

      Trading Jerian Grant 11 months after he was a first round draft pick isn’t all that different than trading a first round pick, and he traded away an unprotected 2nd rounder just to dump Travis Outlaw because god forbid we didn’t have enough cap space for Arron Afflalo and Derrick Williams. The 38, 54, and 56 picks were sold just for cash in 2016 and to our knowledge Phil did not inquire about that (and what do you know, Patrick McCaw looks pretty decent). I’m pretty sure David Griffin is on record saying taking JR Smith allowed the Cavs to not give the Knicks a first rounder for Shumpert (which saved the Knicks $6 million or so that Phil promptly spent on Derrick Williams). Phil really didn’t give a shit about getting draft picks, cap space was always his priority.

      Mills has been a complete disaster so far as well, sadly. It seems like Phil was our one chance to be relatively free of Dolan’s Dolanness and we blew it.

    27. 2FOR18, understands math

      The big hold up is probably that mills is refusing to take on Anderson or Turner, since that would make his “young and athletic ” mandate seem silly. This means that we’re waiting on Morey to pull a rabbit out of his ass. Like, Portland might be willing to take Anderson, but only if somebody takes back Turner. Too bad Billy King isn’t still running the Nets.

    28. 2FOR18, understands math

      I’m sorry stratomatic, but you can’t bring up Phil wanting to trade melo when he signed him in the first place and gave him the damn NTC. That’s why he’s still on the damn team, and that’s why we’ll have to eat shit in any deal we do, unless Morey comes through.

    29. DRed

      Getting younger and more athletic is good and all, but that’s a means, not an end. The goal is getting good players on good deals, or good assets to (hopefully) turn into good players. I’m not sure Mills has grasped the latter part yet, it sounds more like a marketing mantra.

    30. Zanzibar

      We haven’t heard much from Mills, but what we did hear is that he wants young prospects and to keep our picks.

      Pay no mind to the words of a front office. Phil babbled on about stuff and did the opposite. Remember the guy in Minnesota front office who said he was stoked to have Rubio on the team and expected him to finish his career as a TWolve? Two days later they flipped him for a draft pick.

      Look at what the Nets are doing and see that the Knicks could do similar things and actually have their 2018 first round pick so that tanking actually actively helps them. The Nets’ moves are smart and they don’t even have the benefit of having a 2018 first rounder!

      Yes, taking Demarre for 2 years and receiving a Raptors 1 and 2 pick would have been better than signing Timmy. And we should have been giving more burn to Frank, Dotson and Baker at the 2 but we now have Timmy and Lee in front of them. We’d have been making progress and probably would have received a higher 2018 draft pick in process.

    31. Owen

      I know Ryan Anderson isn’t a great asset. Too old, always injured, 3 year deal. I do find it a little ironic though that his deal is considered so toxic when he just put up a .117 WS/48 last year on a Rockets team that was below average defensively. Melo was well below that. Obviously, that’s just a number and there are other numbers you can look at, but still, he wasn’t THAT terrible.

      I am not saying I want him or that I disagree with anyone who feels his contract is a lead weight. I just think it’s funny in a world where Tim Hardaway Jr gets 17 million per that Ryan Anderson’s 20 million per is considered to be one of the most untradeable deals in the NBA.

    32. ClashFan

      @35
      Yeah, seeing the Nets take on Carroll’s contract for 2 years and picking up a couple of picks for that made my heart sink. That’s exactly what the Knicks should have done rather than sign THJ.

    33. ClashFan

      @36
      Well, with Timmy and Noah locked in for the next three years, the Knicks are going to be stuck in Neutral anyways, so I’d be willing to take Anderson (and a couple of Houston’s expiring/non-guaranteeds to get the $ in line) directly for 2 good assets (Hartenstein and the next Rockets #1 pick available if possible).

      I’d guess that either Mills does not want to rent space for picks, though, or that Morey will not give that much to rent Melo for a year or two (but he would be unloading Anderson, so why not?).

      Start Anderson at the 3 (he can at least spot up and help space the floor a bit, if nothing else) and hope that he stays healthy and can maybe be moved later.

      Hopefully whatever trade does end up happening is better than this, though. But it could be worse.

    34. GoldClub

      F@ck the moron Steve Mills. Why does this team insist on employing idiots????

      Even if the Melo trade turns out well it is not going to because of Mills, it will be because this board underestimates Melo’s perceived value in the league.

    35. DRed

      I don’t want Anderson and his contract in exchange for Melo, because whatever difference between Melo and Anderson this season is inconsequential, and then we’re stuck with him for another two years. If we got good young players or good draft picks and Anderson? Sure, but I haven’t seen any rumored deals that suggest that’s possible.

    36. Ntilakilla

      If the Knicks can dump Noah’s contract in a 4 team trade, I don’t care what their return for Melo is. It’s a success.

    37. Ntilakilla

      Trading Jerian Grant 11 months after he was a first round draft pick isn’t all that different than trading a first round pick,

      But it is. If the scouting/coaching staff didn’t like what they saw from Grant, I would understand why they’d want to trade him. Giving someone a chance to play and seeing what they can do is different than outright giving away a pick. We may not like that they gave up on Grant so quickly, but we did pick him and evaluate him.

    38. ClashFan

      @42
      Agreed. Grant had played 4 years in college, so likely Phil expected him to be a decent player right off the bat. When he wasn’t, he bailed on him. I recall Grant getting pulled very quickly a lot in games, so they must have been pretty disappointed in him.

      Yes, perhaps too soon, but they did use him and evaluate him.

      I really think that Phil was kind of desperate to win in year 3, thus making two pretty bad, shortsighted deals (Rose and Noah).

    39. wetbandit

      1. The reason this trade is taking so long is BECAUSE the Knicks don’t want Anderson. So I don’t understand the hubbub.

      2. I would not give up leverage in a deal by asking someone to take Noah. We’re irrelevant through the rest of his contract so I don’t care enough to give up on even a little of the assets/picks/youth side of the deal.

      3. If we’re running a Phoenix offense with Frank/Tim/Lee/KP/Willy, that would be fun to watch. And if you add some youth and picks I’m happy.

    40. ClashFan

      Why would Griffin want to fire Houston? Just as part of a general deal of bringing in his own people, or is there some specific issue with him?

      Curious as to why he’s be singled out by name.

    41. wetbandit

      Also, if we’re compensated with extra picks or youth, I’m ok with taking Anderson. Again, were irrelevant anyways and he may be fun to watch. Not in terms of wins,of course, because I gave up on that. Again, EXTRA assets if we take Anderson.

    42. ClashFan

      @47
      Agreed, and that’s what I’m saying. It probably won’t happen though b/c I doubt Mills wants to rent cap space for picks. Locking up and overpaying THJ and Baker pretty much illustrates that.

    43. swiftandabundant

      @ 39 – that is the dumbest statement ever. So the guy who is actively negotiating a Melo deal would get no credit for a good return for Melo?

      I mean, do you even hear how dumb you sound saying this? Your hatred is blinding your reason.

    44. swiftandabundant

      I would gladly take on Anderson IF it also means we got rid of Noah. I’d much rather have Anderson’s bad contract than Noah’s. He is at least a playable player who can shoot and could thrive in Horny’s offense.

      Only having Anderson as the bad contract on this team (Hardaway is young and part of the future), would be great for us. Its having Anderson AND Noah eating up cap space that would kill us.

    45. ClashFan

      @50
      Trying to unload both Melo and Noah in the same trade would be the thirteenth Labor of Hercules.

      Steve Mills doesn’t strike me as being particularly Herculean!

    46. Jack Bauer

      Knicks have to be patient and demand a good deal. There is no urgency to trading Melo right now so they are holding a good hand ( hopefully Mills can see this).

    47. Cock Jowles, Not a Knicks Fan Because Fuck This Team

      Ryan Anderson can only really play the 4. I know we’re all about position-less basketball these days, but I don’t see how you could ever have Porzingis and Hernangomez play the minutes they deserve unless you’re banking on Anderson being injured half the year. Makes me afraid they’re going to move Hernangomez and call Porzingis their franchise stretch 5.

    48. Frank

      There’s no specific urgency right now to trade Melo, but it really should be done before training camp so that Hornacek’s new offense can be installed with the personnel that will be running it. There’s theoretical upside in waiting to trade Melo past that point (ie. he rehabilitates some of his value), but that’s offset by a) he still has the NTC and wants only to go to teams that don’t have much to trade, so how much more can we leverage him? and b) he could get hurt.

      I don’t really want any part of Ryan Anderson. $20MM Anderson $18MM Noah is just too much invested in slow guys that are not part of our future.

    49. Bruno Almeida

      Noah ain’t going nowhere boys, don’t even start.

      the only way an albatross like Noah’ s contract would ever get traded was if the Knicks gave multiple picks to the Nets to absorb it. There’s no way anyone is taking washed up, recently suspended Noah without a Knicks 1st.

      the Knicks could get Anderson and play him as a 6th man to rotate Willy and KP and keep them fresh, but I don’t see the point… unless it’s a last resort thing and we’re getting relevant assets elsewhere to absorb him, and trading O’Quinn in the package.

    50. swiftandabundant

      Yeah people think we are desperate to trade him and Houston has all the leverage but if they are serious about getting Melo they would want to get him now before training camp. Getting him mid season means less chemistry to integrate him into this new team with CP3. If they are seriously trying to make a run at GS with CP3, Harden and Melo as their big 3, they’re gonna want Melo now, not mid season.

    51. 2FOR18, understands math

      Would you move Willie if it meant dumping Noah and melo and getting back Harkless and guys with 1or 2 years left on their contracts, like Leonard? I’d do that.

    52. swiftandabundant

      Ha. Yeah we’re stuck with Noah for sure. But a boy can dream, right?

      I just hope we don’t get Anderson then. I would rather we clear the cap space OR get a decent young player back than take Anderson for a pick. If its a Houston pick in the next 5 years its not gonna be much higher than a late first rounder anyways. Even if CP3 and Melo bounce after one year they still got Harden for a bit.

    53. Zanzibar

      Noah ain’t going nowhere boys, don’t even start. the only way an albatross like Noah’ s contract

      This is true but it’s depressing in what it says about our team that Noah posted the 2nd highest BPM and 3rd highest WS/48 and VORP on the Knicks last season.

    54. english_knick

      I’ve said this before but if you’re taking Anderson you mentally have to split that and the Melo bit of the deal. If the going rate to take a 2-year deal is a first and a second, and the going rate for three is D’angelo Russel, we should get assets JUST for taking Anderson. If we’re also giving up Melo – who while not great is hardly a scrub as the third option on a contender – that should also cost assets. A late first in 2020 and Hartenstein might be ok for either taking Anderson or sending Melo but no way is it enough for both.

    55. ClashFan

      I do have a small hope about Noah.

      With Willy and KP likely to start and get major minutes, Noah will be nothing more than a backup going forward. Maybe that will hurt his pride a bit and cause him to want to move on and consider a buyout in a year or so.

      Further, if he does indeed have another injury plagued year (which is entirely possible), he might consider retirement rather than limp on as a seldom-used third stringer. Or, again, a buyout.

    56. latke

      There is such a simple trade option here that it’s obvious Mills’ priorities are screwy. Just take Ryan Anderson and whatever young pieces/picks Houston is willing to attach. Why are we gonna give another team the bribe to take on his contract when we could keep it ourselves?

      It’s simple opportunity cost. There is no difference between trading a draft pick and refusing a move that could have netted you a draft pick in favor of a move that has only short term rewards. I wish people could see that… could see that when Phil insisted on dumping Ray Felton with Tyson trade value, he essentially traded a pick. When he insisted on those pointless 1 year deals wtih Afflalo and Derrick Williams, he traded a pick. Unless you wanna be super literal, in essence, Phil traded a bunch of picks. Seems like Mills is about to trade more in this Melo deal.

    57. Frank

      I actually think Noah might be semi-useful playing 15 minutes/game. My guess is that his defense might be a bit better next year without his ankle issues. He’s still a monster offensive rebounder and good defensive rebounder – totally fine as a (very expensive) 3rd or 4th big. we’d have to attach gigantic sweeteners to get rid of him, and it’s just not worth it. Just suck it up now — if we absolutely need the cap space later we could consider stretching him next offseason when the cap hit would be just $7MM over 5 seasons (not saying it’s a good idea, but <7% of the cap isn't that awful).

      No one has love for my 4 team trade idea above?

      Knicks get: Eric Bledsoe, Ajinca, Quinn Cook, Shawn Long (non guaranteed), Tim Quarterman (non guaranteed)

      Houston gets: Carmelo

      Pelicans get: Ryan Anderson

      Suns get: Frank Jackson, Asik, Kyle O’Quinn, HOU 2020 1st, Cam Oliver, Pelicans top 8 protected 2018 1st

      I actually think it's a pretty fair trade all around. In total the Suns get 2 1st rounders + a flippable KOQ + 2 young players to take on Asik's awful contract and to send out Bledsoe.

      Pelicans get off Asik/Ajinca contract and get much needed shooting. (maybe they don't need to send out Frank Jackson? maybe Houston could send their best second rounder?)

      Houston makes out well

      Knicks get Bledsoe and no terrible contracts.

    58. KnickfaninNJ

      The Knicks are reportedly considering Donald Sloan, who is now playing in the Chinese Basktball Association. He’s 28 years old, played 38 minutes a game, shot 46% overall and 37% from three, hit 78% of his free throws, had 6.5 assists per game and 3 turnovers per game. The guy I keep pushing, Zhao Jiwei, played 30 minutes a game, shot 44% from the field and 40% from three, hit 83% of his free throws, had 4.3 assists per game and 1.6 turnovers. On a per minute basis, his assists are almost as good, and his three point shooting is similar or better, but he’s only 21! He’s not the scorer Sloan is in terms of total points, but that’s not his role in China and not what we need in a point guard. I don’t know why we aren’t looking at him.

      And note that the Chinese three pointer is the same distance as the NBA one.

    59. Ntilakilla

      Does Zhao Jiwei speak English? The culture barrier for Chinese born players is even greater than the one for Euros. It would be interesting to see a 21 year old Chinese player tutor an 18 year old French-Rwandan rookie.

    60. latke

      @Frank, I just have zero interest in Eric Bledsoe. He’s probably better than Melo at this point in his career, so we’d be trading down in the draft considerably vs. just taking back a truly bad contract, yet due to his injury history and play style, he’s very unlikely to remain productive for more than another year or two. He’s pointless to us except as a trade chip, in which case might as well add a 5th team to the trade!

    61. Brian Cronin

      Does Zhao Jiwei speak English? The culture barrier for Chinese born players is even greater than the one for Euros. It would be interesting to see a 21 year old Chinese player tutor an 18 year old French-Rwandan rookie.

      That would be kind of epic. I mean, it would probably fail epically, but it would still be pretty awesome.

    62. thenoblefacehumper

      Would you move Willie if it meant dumping Noah and melo and getting back Harkless and guys with 1or 2 years left on their contracts, like Leonard? I’d do that.

      Unless you’re talking about Kawhi and not Meyers, absolutely not.

    63. Ntilakilla

      Actually, Bledsoe wouldn’t be a terrible addition. I’d love to have him without giving up a core guy or a first round draft pick.

    64. Ntilakilla

      That would be kind of epic. I mean, it would probably fail epically, but it would still be pretty awesome.

      Globalization, baby! I kind of like the idea that we’re constructing this very multicultural, international roster. It totally fits with the cosmopolitan nature of NYC as a world city and worldwide presence of basketball today.

    65. Early Bird

      There is such a simple trade option here that it’s obvious Mills’ priorities are screwy. Just take Ryan Anderson and whatever young pieces/picks Houston is willing to attach. Why are we gonna give another team the bribe to take on his contract when we could keep it ourselves?

      Because then you need to take Ryan Anderson.

    66. ClashFan

      @63
      Bledsoe is intriguing and would obviously improve the team, but he’s oft injured. I think I’d be more interested in tanking this year. Bledsoe probably adds a few wins to kill draft position.

      He would be a good PG for KP and Willy to work with, though, and a solid tutor for Frank.

    67. Frank

      Bledsoe, THJ, Lee, KP, Willy would be super-fun, honestly. I’m not sure they’d be good, but it’d be fun.
      Bledsoe would be the best PG defender we’ve had since Charlie Ward to boot.

    68. rama

      Frank, I was going to say that the trade is fine by me but probably wouldn’t be for the Suns…but two firsts in exchange for taking on Asik (while losing Bledsoe) … that does seem like a good deal for them. So, yeah, I think the Pellies would want a little more, or would want to lose a little less, but that could work.

    69. Brian Cronin

      I’d gladly take Bledsoe back in a Melo deal if Frank’s trade could somehow work. :)

      They’re probably going to trade a first round pick for him instead, though, because…well…you know. ;)

    70. rama

      I should add that Bledsoe might have us winning more games than would be good for us in what should be a final tanking year, but he’ll probably get hurt, so no worries there.

    71. lyricist

      The Spurs have renounced Jonathon Simmons, making him an unrestricted free agent.
      Had San Antonio retained his rights, they would have been able to match any offer to Simmons, so this is a surprising move by the Spurs. Simmons stepped up this past postseason, when the Spurs were dealing with injuries. He provided solid defense and scored in double figures in nine of their final ten playoffs games and averaged 15.3 points per game in the Western Conference Finals against Golden State. Teams that have preserved their cap space this summer may now have a chance to land Simmons on an affordable contract.

      Knicks need to hurry up and get this Melo deal done so they can go after Simmons! If not for the Baker deal, Knicks would have Simmons who would have been the perfect young talent to groom and would solve their PG issues!

      Thoughts??

    72. Ntilakilla

      Jonathan Simmons aint that young at all. In fact, he’s in his peak years as a 28 year old. I don’t know how much grooming is left for the dude.

    73. Cock Jowles, Not a Knicks Fan Because Fuck This Team

      He provided solid defense and scored in double figures in nine of their final ten playoffs games and averaged 15.3 points per game in the Western Conference Finals against Golden State. Teams that have preserved their cap space this summer may now have a chance to land Simmons on an affordable contract.

      Damn! Look at those PPG. He must be a stud.

      (Actually, nah, he had a .504 TS% and has middling numbers otherwise. Bad OBPM, WP48 and WS/48 and a VORP of exactly zero. He’s exactly the kind of player that the Spurs let other teams overpay for. Plus, he’s too old to expect improvement from. But those PPG, those!)

    74. latke

      Simmons is entering his age 28 season. No thanks.

      And yes, Bledsoe makes the team more entertaining and better but in terms of the practical task of assembling a good, growing young team, he’s a net negative. We’d be better off without him.

    75. lyricist

      The Spurs have renounced Jonathon Simmons, making him an unrestricted free agent.

      Woops, didn’t realize he was 28! PASS!

    76. Ntilakilla

      And yes, Bledsoe makes the team more entertaining and better but in terms of the practical task of assembling a good, growing young team, he’s a net negative.

      In fairness, he wasn’t a net negative playing under Hornacek’s system. I also think he makes a lot more sense on our team as currently constructed than Phoenix’s.

    77. Brian Cronin

      At the very least, Bledsoe could be flipped if need be for an actual asset (I mean not a salary dump).

    78. Ntilakilla

      In non-B Ball related news I just want to say that Venus Williams is amazing. 37 years old and she makes the Wimbledon Finals after dealing with a terrible car accident where she was falsely accused of being culpable in another person’s death. I am going root for her to win her 6th Wimbledon championship. What a great American athlete.

    79. Bruno Almeida

      Bledsoe is good, the problem is that he’ll be expensive and if he’s healthy he brings some wins but not enough to be really worth it.

      if the Suns are giving him away for nothing then sure, count me in, but I don’t see why that would be the case.

    80. 2FOR18, understands math

      Bledsoe, Lee, Timmah, KP, Willy, O’Quinn, Noah make the EC playoffs. Except for Noah, they’re all tradeable assets. Except for Timmah’s player option and trade kicker. Fuck I’m depressed again.

    81. djphan

      i kind of go back and forth on bledsoe… he’s a solid pg… two years isn’t a huge obligation and in line with when frank should be ready if he is at all… and next year’s draft isn’t all that great aside from 2-3 guys…

      we should be trying to tank and accumulate high picks… but there’s value in trying to be good if it’s only .500 seasons especially if you have young foundational players…

    82. Frank

      well this is interesting:
      from Steve Popper’s twitter:

      Hearing from other teams that Knicks have front office settled – Steve Mills as president and a GM selected.

    83. KnickfaninNJ

      I don’t know if Zhao speaks English, but a lot of young Chinese speak some English now. I don’t know his contract situation either. But I agree it would va a fascinating experiment

    84. DS

      Hearing from other teams that Knicks have front office settled – Steve Mills as president and a GM selected.

      Really? They pried away Sam Presti to be GM? Just kidding, it’s obviously Allan Houston. (It’s funny, I remember being so happy when we signed Allan Houston from Detroit.)

    85. Ntilakilla

      (It’s funny, I remember being so happy when we signed Allan Houston from Detroit.)

      I wanted Reggie Miller instead.

    86. d-mar

      Really? They pried away Sam Presti to be GM? Just kidding, it’s obviously Allan Houston.

      Mills: “We did our due diligence, and have decided that the guy down the hall from me is the best GM candidate out there”

    87. chrisk06811

      Regarding taking Anderson, I think the bar has been set:
      -Nets received a 1st (probably 23’ish) and a 2nd for Carroll, with 2 years @ $15M per
      -Anderson has 2 years @ $20M per.

      You cant’ take Anderson unless you get more than the above. You would be better off just paying Melo.

    88. Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada

      Imo Willy should be considered as untouchable as KP. No trading the rightful ROY

    89. stratomatic is despondent

      Hearing from other teams that Knicks have front office settled – Steve Mills as president and a GM selected.

      I’m betting on Allan Houston. More of the same.

    90. stratomatic is despondent

      I would take Bledsoe in a NY minute if we could get him for Courtney Lee and maybe KOQ. I like KOQ a lot, but I already see the handwriting on the wall with him. We are either going to dramatically overpay him or we are going to let him walk. Not sure which would be worse. I’d rather trade him in a deal I can tolerate than allow Mills to do something that will give me stomach cramps.

    91. Cock Jowles, Not a Knicks Fan Because Fuck This Team

      Why would Hinkie come to a team that’s horribly capped-out until 2020? That dude wants a clean slate wherever he goes, as well as a 5+ year commitment that they’ll accept his methods as time-consuming. He’ll be fired in 2 years if he has to deal with disassembling this mess of a roster.

    92. JK47

      It doesn’t matter who the GM is. Hire fucking Carrot Top for all it matters. The guy making the decisions is the guy we all know is a complete dunce.

      #TeamRealist4Eva

    93. KnickfaninNJ

      Jowles , I don’t think anyone will hire Hinkie in the sort of rule you are describing. He basically got forced out because he couldn’t deal with the press and wasn’t politically correct in how he managed the team. If he reported to Mills he wouldn’t necessarily have to handle that stuff. I’m also not sure how good a drafter he was. But he made good trades and would probably negotiate good contracts. Mills could use that sort of help.

    94. Frank

      It doesn’t matter who the GM is. Hire fucking Carrot Top for all it matters. The guy making the decisions is the guy we all know is a complete dunce.

      #TeamRealist4Eva

      the best part of this is that i’m not even sure which dunce you’re talking about. Dolan? Mills?

    95. Frank

      I feel like if it was going to be an external candidate we would have heard something about it on twitter etc. I think it’s likely Allan Houston or Mark Warkentien.

    96. stratomatic is despondent

      @102

      I agree. Hinkie wouldn’t last more than 2 years in NY. He’d try to communicate with the NY media using high level valuation jargon and folksy Warren Buffett stories and get back a glazed look and screams over how his record stinks after 2 years.

    97. Bruno Almeida

      the Pelicans, I can’t understand why, are closing in on a 1 year deal for Rajon Rondo… some good news at least.

    98. KnickfaninNJ

      I’m sure it’s not going to be Hinkie, but he’s still my preferred candidate

    99. DS

      My logic is starting to become backwards in that I assume an idea is stupid because the Knicks are doing it.

      Rondo to N.O. isn’t a done deal just yet.

    100. Jack Bauer

      “It’s almost certainly Allan Houston. He’s Mills’ guy.” …and Dolan’s guy too

      I agree this is likely happening – get ready for more of the same

    101. stratomatic is despondent

      From Peter Vecsey

      “Don’t pretend 2B wired anymore. Still, I am told Melo-Rockets trade holdup is D’Antoni. Does not want him. Melo knows! It’ll happen anyway!”

    102. Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada

      LMao if Melo runs D’Antoni out of town twice or if D’Antoni gets to Marbury someone again

    103. stratomatic is despondent

      D’Antoni knows what will happen when he asks Melo to play PF & stand in the corner to shoot 3s when the P&R breaks down & he’s 3rd option. lmao

      overrated player + poisonous personalty = problems

      If this deal goes down and Houston starts disappointing, the press is going tell us there’s a chemistry problem and it will be D’Antoni that gets the blame again. Aside from the Knicks getting rid of him, there may be a good “under” bet brewing if people actually believe Melo is going to help CP3 and Harden and the under over is very high.

    104. kevin5318

      Why are people quoting Peter Vescey? Also Dantoni said he would be fine coaching Melo again.

    105. Hubert

      Look at what the Nets are doing and see that the Knicks could do similar things and actually have their 2018 first round pick so that tanking actually actively helps them. The Nets’ moves are smart and they don’t even have the benefit of having a 2018 first rounder!

      Would you rather have used our cap space to get Russell and take on the Mozgov contract or given it to Hardaway?

      At first I thought Russell & Mozgov was a no-brainer. But Russell’s numbers are not good at all. Timmy has been the better player.

      In the end I think I’d still rather have done what the Nets did. I would still take a flier on Russell’s potential, and Mozgov has one less year and can be traded.

    106. Ntilakilla

      Thus just in: Mike D'Antoni promises to play triangle defense should Houston acquire Carmelo Anthony…— Peter Vecsey (@PeterVecsey1) July 12, 2017

    107. stratomatic is despondent

      Why are people quoting Peter Vescey? Also Dantoni said he would be fine coaching Melo again.

      Because he’s not a journalist anymore and may be more willing to tell the truth since there will be no career implications or loss of contacts for telling us sensitive things.

      You don’t really believe D’Antonio feels good about getting a player he did NOT want in NY to begin with and that later drove him out of town do you? The guy just won COY for the second time playing basketball the way he wants to play it and the team is bringing in a player that is essentially the anti-Christ of his philosophy.

    108. stratomatic is despondent

      Thus just in: Mike D’Antoni promises to play triangle defense should Houston acquire Carmelo Anthony…— Peter Vecsey (@PeterVecsey1) July 12, 2017

      If that means 2 players don’t have to play defense Melo should fit right in.

    109. chrisk06811

      would Phoenix do lee and o’quinn for beldsoe? that’s about as high as i would go….maybe a 2nd. but, then, where does ron baker play?

    110. Owen

      There is no way in hell D’Antoni wants Melo. No way. In hell.

      The thought of Allan Houston as GM – I should be numb by now – but it’s going to hurt.

    111. Donnie Walsh

      Look at what the Nets are doing and see that the Knicks could do similar things and actually have their 2018 first round pick so that tanking actually actively helps them. The Nets’ moves are smart and they don’t even have the benefit of having a 2018 first rounder!

      This is what I was getting at yesterday– even Isiah saw the benefit of this strategy. He didn’t have cap space to rent out, but he did have Dolan’s willingness to pay luxury tax to rent out, and he basically bought the Lee and Balkman picks with it (for a combined $50,000,000 after taxes).

      Those moves shred our cap flexibility, but the philosophy of replenishing lost picks and keeping a pipeline of good young players was a central part of even Isiah’s plans.

      Phil failed to adopt this basic strategy, and Mills is failing to as well. Use all the tools in the box to rebuild, not just the tools marked “player option”!

    112. 2FOR18, understands math

      The only teams that make sense for Lee, that I can see, are OKC (Abrines, McDermott and filler) and Milwaukee (Delladova). Those are the only teams I see who need shooting from a 2 and are trying to win.

    113. Frank

      Scott Perry? that’s… unexpected and maybe good.
      I guess i know what my listening will be on the commute home — he JUST did an indepth interview with Woj June 2.

    114. stratomatic is despondent

      From Woj

      Sources: Sacramento granted permission to New York, showing willingness to allow Perry to pursue a promotion to a dream job.

      Looks like most of us were wrong. I don’t know a damn thing about Perry, but I’ll take any outsider over another insider.

    115. stratomatic is despondent

      I guess i know what my listening will be on the commute home — he JUST did an indepth interview with Woj June 2.

      Thanks for the insight.

    116. 2FOR18, understands math

      Can you imagine ruru and er on some Rockets blog ripping on D’Antoni and bashing Knicks fans all year for being haterz?

      But seriously, Chris Paul is one of 2 players in the league who I think melo would defer to. If melo just did what Paul tells him to do, melo would be a great 3rd option/playmaker for them. What they have now is not beating G State, so they might as well go all in.

    117. Brian Cronin

      Scott Perry isn’t a particularly inspiring pick, but he’s not Allan Houston, so I’m down with it.

      It’s hilarious that he just took a job with the Kings, though.

    118. JK47

      At first I thought Russell & Mozgov was a no-brainer. But Russell’s numbers are not good at all. Timmy has been the better player.

      Timmy’s also four years older than Russell. Russell was a one-and-done at Ohio State and last year was his age 20 season. Timmy didn’t even turn pro until age 21.

    119. d-mar

      Good news:

      – Perry isn’t Allan Houston
      – He’s really not a Sacramento guy, just got there in April

      Bad news:

      – He spent the last 5 seasons in the Orlando Magic front office.

    120. JK47

      Somebody from the Kings’ FO? Is this a joke?

      Well, he was a very recent hire, so you can’t really hold that against him. He worked under Joe Dumars in the 00’s and more recently for the Magic. From what I can tell he doesn’t seem to be a stats-driven guy, but whatareyougonnado.

      Like I said earlier in the thread, it probably doesn’t matter much who is the GM, since Mills (God help us) is the POBO.

    121. Brian Cronin

      I agree that it probably doesn’t matter much (but it is still better than Allan Houston), but what i don’t get is why would Mills offer the job to him in the first place? They never worked together, so what’s the connection?

    122. The Glass Half Rebuilt

      Scott Perry makes me want to put on my tinfoil hat. He worked with Dumars and the Pistons? He’s obviously in cahoots with Isiah Thomas.

    123. Donnie Walsh

      I don’t know a damn thing about Perry

      I know that his “dream job” is the nightmare job of pretty much every other executive on the planet.

    124. 2FOR18, understands math

      Going through the rosters just now, I did a “d’oh” when I saw that Kris Middleton is making 4 mil a year less than Timmy.

    125. Donnie Walsh

      I will say that over the past few months we’ve all noticed that the Kings have been acting like a reputable franchise, and they seem to have had a very solid draft day.

    126. heavencent35

      What’s with the kings gm? If there’s a worse franchise than he Knicks it’s the kings. So why? Can someone explain? Kings sucks since the Webber days. They’re just done something good this offseason so what’s up Knicks?

    127. ptmilo

      Perry is not down with the tank:

      “We know this. Along the way what you hope for when we were drafting where we were drafting — and this is where luck comes into play a little bit if you will, and you guys mentioned about tanking, which I am not a big fan of, to be honest. You don’t ever want to voluntarily if you will bring losing into your locker room. Once that gets into your culture, it’s hard to get out.”

    128. Brian Cronin

      By the way, Woj is going to have soooooooooooooooooooo much info about the Knicks now that Perry is here.

    129. Brian Cronin

      Perry is not down with the tank:

      “We know this. Along the way what you hope for when we were drafting where we were drafting — and this is where luck comes into play a little bit if you will, and you guys mentioned about tanking, which I am not a big fan of, to be honest. You don’t ever want to voluntarily if you will bring losing into your locker room. Once that gets into your culture, it’s hard to get out.”

      I take it back, Allan!!

    130. Hubert

      He worked under Joe Dumars in the 00’s and more recently for the Magic.

      So we’re now run by the guys who worked for Isiah Thomas and Joe Dumars.

      Whatever. I have no idea who this guy is. He’s probably just going to run operations while Mills makes the decisions.

    131. Hubert

      By the way, Woj is going to have soooooooooooooooooooo much info about the Knicks now that Perry is here.

      Is he known to be a woj source or something?

    132. Frank

      What’s with the kings gm? If there’s a worse franchise than he Knicks it’s the kings. So why? Can someone explain? Kings sucks since the Webber days. They’re just done something good this offseason so what’s up Knicks?

      He was just hired by the Kings in April so has nothing to do with their previous dysfunction. I’m not sure what role he had in their offseason so far, but Sac’s draft and FA signings have all been pretty sharp at least on paper.

      He did work with Dumars, whose Pistons GM career ended badly, but Dumars also built that awesome team with Billups, Rip, Rasheed/Ben Wallace, and Prince. Dumars’s career was basically ended by 2 things – 1) making the wrong call on Darko (instead of Melo!) and 2) having lots of cap room in a terrible free agent year.

      I’m pleasantly surprised at this hire – seems like Perry is well respected around the league. He clearly has enough self-confidence to walk clear-eyed into dysfunctional situations (taking the Kings job under Vivek) and now taking this job. Let’s hope for the best.

    133. Frank

      Another thought about Perry – he was also part of an uninspiring run in Orlando – they had a bunch of lottery picks but none of them ended up any good. The blame for that can certainly rest to some degree on Perry (assistant GM) and Hennigan, but also may rest pretty heavily on the Orlando scouting department.

      It may be that he was the pick by Mills and co because he agreed to keep the NYK scouting department, which has been really good.

    134. Bruno Almeida

      I’m on board, it’s not Allan freaking Houston (or Isiah) so Im fine with it.

      I just hope he won’t want to make a “splash” right away, just help with the Melo trade and stay quiet for now.

    135. Hubert

      He clearly has enough self-confidence to walk clear-eyed into dysfunctional situations (taking the Kings job under Vivek) and now taking this job. Let’s hope for the best.

      Great point.

      Best case scenario: he’s smart and ambitious AF and he knows if he can get the Knicks to start acting smart he will eventually be on every NBA team’s shortlist for POBO.

    136. xcat01

      So Scott Perry is the new Knicks’ scapegoat. The Knicks will screw up the off-season, miss out on the playoffs and a high draft pick and Dolan/Mills will blame Perry and he will get fired in 2 years. It’s always someone else’s fault in the Knicks front office. The GMs change, players change and coaches change but the Knicks still suck. What’s the root cause? Dolan, Mills and Houston.

    137. Frank

      Let’s hope he wasn’t the guy who convinced Orlando to draft Hezonja.

      lol – David Griffin was VP of basketball operations for the Anthony Bennett draft, and no one seems to hold that against him…

    138. Frank

      So Scott Perry is the new Knicks’ scapegoat. The Knicks will screw up the off-season, miss out on the playoffs and a high draft pick and Dolan/Mills will blame Perry and he will get fired in 2 years. It’s always someone else’s fault in the Knicks front office. The GMs change, players change and coaches change but the Knicks still suck. What’s the root cause? Dolan, Mills and Houston.

      you must be really fun to hang out with at parties

    139. Bruno Almeida

      @153

      I mean, as much as Orlando’s recent draft picks didnt really work out, I like the way they went about making them.

      Elfrid Payton played pretty well in the end of last year, and they got extremely unlucky drafting 4th in a 3 player draft (Gordon in 2014) and 5th in a 4 player draft (Hezonja in 2015), and they went for the high risk, high reward picks over dudes like Mudiay, Smart, Randle etc.

    140. Brian Cronin

      Is he known to be a woj source or something?

      Joe Dumars made Woj’s career, so it’s highly likely that Woj is tight with Perry, as well. Listening to the Woj podcast with Perry also seems to bear that out. They sound like old pals.

    141. The Glass Half Rebuilt

      I don’t know if rebuilding is actively tanking, though. I don’t think Presti’s Thunder, Morey’s Rockets, any Ujiri team ever (and Ujiri took over teams around times where they should have been entering a rebuilding phase), Ainge’s Celtics, Buford’s Spurs, Riley’s Heat, or even this current iteration of the Lakers (3 top 2 picks in a row) have actively put together a roster determined to lose.

      The first time we’ve ever truly seen a front office openly tank was Hinkie’s 76ers. Tanking is essentially when a front office goes out and does their best to put together a losing roster. Benching Eric Bledsoe when he didn’t really have a knee injury is tanking. The Knicks shouldn’t tank, but they shouldn’t be opposed to losing either. If we put Baker, Hardaway Jr, Lee, Porzingis, and Hernangomez together and they win 25 games (highly unlikely), then we can’t be mad. If they’re a fringe playoff team and we bench Hernangomez for the rest of the year, that’s bullshit and it’s tanking. I understand tanking, and I was very mad when N’Dour hit the game winner, but I definitely don’t think every rebuilding team is a tanking team.

    142. Brian Cronin

      The Spurs very clearly tanked to get Duncan once Robinson got hurt. And once they did that, they haven’t needed to do so since, as Duncan played forever and by the time he was on the way out, Kawhi was on the upswing.

      And how is trading all of your veteran star players (like what Sam Presti did as soon as he took over the Seattle Supersonic and what NBA teams have been doing for years) not actively trying to lose?

    143. The Glass Half Rebuilt

      The Spurs/Duncan situation is an outlier in terms of tanking. David Robinson went down for the year, didn’t he?

    144. Brian Cronin

      Ewing went down a year later and the Knicks didn’t tank. The Spurs won 59 games the previous year, but once they lost Robinson, they knew they weren’t going to win a title and everyone knew Duncan would be a star, so they tanked and got Duncan for their troubles.

    145. The Glass Half Rebuilt

      Speaking of the Lakers, I sure hope they have given the Knicks’ brass the stones they need to truly rebuild. Lakers fans have been patient, so why can’t we be patient?

    146. DRed

      I mean, as much as Orlando’s recent draft picks didnt really work out, I like the way they went about making them.

      Elfrid Payton played pretty well in the end of last year, and they got extremely unlucky drafting 4th in a 3 player draft (Gordon in 2014) and 5th in a 4 player draft (Hezonja in 2015), and they went for the high risk, high reward picks over dudes like Mudiay, Smart, Randle etc.

      Hezonja was a really stupid pick but otherwise I agree.

    147. Ntilakilla

      lol – David Griffin was VP of basketball operations for the Anthony Bennett draft, and no one seems to hold that against him…

      As someone here explained to me, David Griffin deserves no blame for the bad picks made before he was Cavs GM yet deserves all the credit for producing a winning championship team after inheriting a core Lebron, Irving, and Thompson from the getgo.

    148. The Glass Half Rebuilt

      Ewing went down a year later and the Knicks didn’t tank.

      Well the Knicks have been dumb for a long time now.

    149. Bruno Almeida

      its an outlier because they saw an opportunity and then took Tim Duncan, which gave them a superstar for 20 years, and then got Kawhi.

      smart teams are not opposed to tanking if the situation arises… you dont need to purposefully pull players or fake injuries or whatever, just don’t make moves that will hurt draft positions and take advantage of injuries / rebuilding situations.

    150. Brian Cronin

      Speaking of the Lakers, I sure hope they have given the Knicks’ brass the stones they need to truly rebuild. Lakers fans have been patient, so why can’t we be patient?

      In a nutshell – James Dolan.

      They had their one chance when Phil took over, but he didn’t want to do it (until maybe this season). He was the one guy who could have done it. And he instead Mega-Maxed (with a NTC) Melo.

    151. DS

      I thought everyone was popping boners over the moves Sacramento’s made in the past three months?

    152. Brian Cronin

      I thought everyone was popping boners over the moves Sacramento’s made in the past three months?

      They had a good draft. I have no idea how much of that to credit to Perry, just like I have no idea of how much to blame him for how shitty Orlando’s front office has been the last few years.

    153. JK47

      I thought everyone was popping boners over the moves Sacramento’s made in the past three months?

      I really do like what Sacramento has done recently, and I hope this dude was a part of the decision making process, and if indeed he was, and he actually knows what the fuck he’s doing, I hope Mills actually listens to him.

    154. Hubert

      I don’t know if rebuilding is actively tanking, though. I don’t think Presti’s Thunder, Morey’s Rockets, any Ujiri team ever (and Ujiri took over teams around times where they should have been entering a rebuilding phase), Ainge’s Celtics, Buford’s Spurs, Riley’s Heat, or even this current iteration of the Lakers (3 top 2 picks in a row) have actively put together a roster determined to lose.

      This is a solid point.

      Hinkie took things to a new level and it pissed off owners. I can see a smart front office exec saying he would never tank, when all he means is he would never go Full Hinkie.

      But he might still be willing to rebuild around young players who are unlikely to win for a few years, which is fine for me.

    155. Ntilakilla

      lol – David Griffin was VP of basketball operations for the Anthony Bennett draft, and no one seems to hold that against him…

      As someone here explained it to me, Griffin deserves no blame for any of the picks made on the Cavaliers while he was VP there. Yet, he deserves credit for inheriting Lebron, Kyrie and Tristan the moment he stepped foot there.

      But be careful, if you belabor the point you will be accused of behaving insufferably.

    156. Zanzibar

      If NYK hired Perry, then surely the job was there for the taking if Warkentien or Houston wanted it. Why didn’t they take it? Because they know the gravy train will then end for them a la Cronin’s scapegoat theory. They both have Herb Williams like jobs at the moment at a nice salary. Warkentien probably punches the clock at 5pm and then goes home to his wife and young kids. Why risk all of that to take a job where you wouldn’t be making the major decisions and likely would be fired in 2 or 3 years when the press and public demands it? Perry is either (1) naive, (2) a moron, or (3) a guy whose dream job is making a lot more money (which he will) enough so he doesn’t care about who makes the decisions. He’ll take the money, sign that non disclosure agreement, wait to be fired, and then be hired by some other NBA team because of his “experience”.

    157. Ntilakilla

      The Spurs very clearly tanked to get Duncan once Robinson got hurt.

      Did they tank or was it just that they played without Robinson for the entire season?

    158. DS

      They had a good draft. I have no idea how much of that to credit to Perry, just like I have no idea of how much to blame him for how shitty Orlando’s front office has been the last few years.

      I really do like what Sacramento has done recently, and I hope this dude was a part of the decision making process, and if indeed he was, and he actually knows what the fuck he’s doing, I hope Mills actually listens to him.

      FWIW – Chris Broussard, calls it “one of their smartest moves in a long time [insert joke here] . Well respected with a great eye for talent.”

    159. Brian Cronin

      Wtf Scott Perry sounds exactly like Woodson.

      Right? It’s definitely weird to hear. I kept waiting for him to talk about not wanting to kick something to the curb.

    160. Ntilakilla

      Wtf Scott Perry sounds exactly like Woodson.

      Damnit, it was all a conspiracy by Dolan’s people to get Woodson back into MSG! Now Melo is staying!

      PS – this is actually how some of the people here have been sounding as of late.

    161. JK47

      As someone here explained it to me, Griffin deserves no blame for any of the picks made on the Cavaliers while he was VP there. Yet, he deserves credit for inheriting Lebron, Kyrie and Tristan the moment he stepped foot there.

      Bullshit. If you’re referring to me, I never gave one ounce of credit to Griffin for inheriting LeBron, Kyrie and Tristan, nor did I even give Griffin credit for anything at all. If you want to try to find a post from me that proves otherwise, have at it.

    162. Ntilakilla

      Deal between Kings VP Scott Perry & Knicks for vacant NY GM gig is not done but heading that way. Perry one of most respected execs in game.— David Aldridge (@daldridgetnt) July 13, 2017

      If Knicks hire Scott Perry as GM it'd be one of their smartest moves in a long time. Well respected with a great eye for talent— Chris Broussard (@Chris_Broussard) July 13, 2017

      Scott Perry is a better get than David Griffin #Knicks If it's gotten, a great move.— Mr. Semi-Perfect (@TheNJF) July 13, 2017

      Scott Perry would be a good hire IMO. Look at this Kings off-season less than 6 months after they traded Cousins.— Knicks Culture (@KnicksCulture) July 13, 2017

    163. Ntilakilla

      Bullshit. If you’re referring to me, I never gave one ounce of credit to Griffin for inheriting LeBron, Kyrie and Tristan, nor did I even give Griffin credit for anything at all. If you want to try to find a post from me that proves otherwise, have at it.

      But you sure as hell refused to acknowledge his participation in the FO that drafted Bennett and Waiters no?

    164. Ntilakilla

      Scott Perry is one of the most accessible front office guys to the media. Wonder it that will continue if he's hired with the Knicks…— New York Sports Guys (@NYSportsGuys5) July 13, 2017

    165. JK47

      But you sure as hell refused to acknowledge his participation in the FO that drafted Bennett and Waiters no?

      I didn’t give him blame for drafting Bennett and Waiters, nor did I give him credit for inheriting LeBron or Kyrie. Because he wasn’t the one making the final decisions. For all we know, he was adamantly opposed to drafting both guys. Or maybe it was all his idea. We don’t know, do we?

    166. KnickfaninNJ

      I am pleasantly surprised too. I don’t know if he will be good, but he’s worked his way up and has reasonable experience. It seems like a normal hire.

    167. Ntilakilla

      I didn’t give him blame for drafting Bennett and Waiters,

      You didn’t even want to attach him to the picks.

    168. Ntilakilla

      NBA executive raves about #Knicks new GM candidate Perry, pointing to Sac free agency. Would serve under Mills https://t.co/HvfYE65R00— Marc Berman (@NYPost_Berman) July 13, 2017

      “One of the top evaluators of talent in the NBA,” said one NBA executive who has worked with Perry. “The evidence is Sacramento’s free agency this year.”

      David Griffin, the former Cavaliers general manager, interviewed for the front-office position, but pulled his name from consideration when he realized he would be the No. 2 guy to Mills.

      Perry started out in a management role with the Pistons in the early 2000s under Joe Dumars during their glory days, which included an NBA title in 2004. Perry worked for the Pistons when they bypassed Carmelo Anthony for Darko Milicic in the 2003 draft.

      Perry served as the assistant general manager for the Seattle SuperSonics for one season (2007–08) on the staff that drafted Kevin Durant at No. 2.

      Perry then returned to the Pistons to become vice president of basketball operations from 2008-2012. He went to Orlando as assistant GM; he helped draft Victor Oladipo in 2013, Aaron Gordon and Elfrid Payton in 2014 and Mario Hezonja in 2015.

    169. thenoblefacehumper

      It sounds like Perry is really well respected, which is far from synonymous with being actually smart or good, but I’ll take basic credibility at this point.

    170. kevin5318

      @vgoodwill
      Sources say Kings VP Scott Perry and Knicks have come to agreement to become Knicks new GM

    171. Ntilakilla

      The one thing I like about Perry from what we hear is that he has a good relationship with members of the media. It could mean that our FO won’t be universally hated by pundits and sportswriters.

    172. Ntilakilla

      Does this mean Perry will get in on the Melo trade talks? He should call up Vlade and try to sell Anderson.

    173. Ntilakilla

      Update on Scott Perry situation: Kings seeking cash compensation in exchange for his exit to NY to become GM. Working through process now— Sam Amick (@sam_amick) July 13, 2017

    174. Donnie Walsh

      But be careful, if you belabor the point you will be accused of behaving insufferably.

      You know, you posted the exact same post twice on this thread, which is belabored and rather insufferable.

    175. MSA

      Update on Scott Perry situation: Kings seeking cash compensation in exchange for his exit to NY to become GM. Working through process now— Sam Amick (@sam_amick) July 13, 2017

      That shoudn’t be a problem for Mills.

      Maybe he can offer a player option too.

    176. Donnie Walsh

      Scott Perry’s gonna be sad when the core of Fox, Hield, Giles, Jackson, Mason, and Cauley-Stein are in the WCF three years from now while he’s off in New York getting coffee for Steve Mills and James Dolan.

    177. Ntilakilla

      You know, you posted the exact same post twice on this thread, which is belabored and rather insufferable.

      See what I mean?

    178. Brian Cronin

      I don’t think I’ve ever seen a team ask just for cash for an executive before. Seems so petty.

      Like, if the executive really mattered to you, you’d ask for some real compensation, like a draft pick. And if they don’t, you just let them go. Especially here, when it’s a promotion. But to ask for cash? So douchey.

    179. DS

      Can’t believe I’m saying this but I miss Mike Woodson.

      You miss Tyson Chandler who made the Knicks, Mavericks, Bobcats, and Jeremy Lin look amazing and doesn’t get enough credit. Sorry, I really like Tyson Chandler.

    180. Brian Cronin

      Can’t believe I’m saying this but I miss Mike Woodson.

      That’s the tricky part of the Knick in the age of Dolan. Whoever is currently in charge is usually bad, so it forces you to look more fondly upon the previous guy, even though he was bad, too. In other words, Woodson was not good (as a head coach. He seems like a fine assistant coach). Don’t let yourself miss him!

    181. DS

      Perry served as the assistant general manager for the Seattle SuperSonics for one season (2007–08) on the staff that drafted Kevin Durant at No. 2.

      WHAT?! How did he know?? How did he KNOW???

    182. Brian Cronin

      You miss Tyson Chandler who made the Knicks, Mavericks, Bobcats, and Jeremy Lin look amazing and doesn’t get enough credit. Sorry, I really like Tyson Chandler.

      As do all right-minded citizens of Earth. :)

    183. Ntilakilla

      Like, if the executive really mattered to you, you’d ask for some real compensation, like a draft pick. And if they don’t, you just let them go. Especially here, when it’s a promotion. But to ask for cash? So douchey.

      Conspiracy theory: You think Vlade wanted to remove the competition before Perry got all the credit and threatened his position?

    184. Ntilakilla

      WHAT?! How did he know?? How did he KNOW???

      A shame that’s cancelled by the Darko pick. Then again, I do like the fact he said no to Melo.

    185. Zanzibar

      NBA executive raves about #Knicks new GM candidate Perry

      I wouldn’t put any stock in what NBA executives say about the guy since this is a revolving door old boys club. Similar to how JVG always supports coaches no matter what the situation.

    186. Ntilakilla

      The fact that a respected GM like Scott Perry wanted to work for the Knicks tells me he likes the young core we’ve assembled.

    187. ClashFan

      I’m cautiously optimistic about Perry.

      But with Dolan, Mills, and company all around him, one wonders if he can really have any impact.

    188. Ntilakilla

      I wouldn’t put any stock in what NBA executives say about the guy since this is a revolving door old boys club. Similar to how JVG always supports coaches no matter what the situation.

      Woj, Broussard, and Adridge like him too. Kings fans loved him for the short time he was here. The guy has a good rep.

    189. Brian Cronin

      The fact that a respected GM like Scott Perry wanted to work for the Knicks tells me he likes the young core we’ve assembled.

      This will be his first time being GM. Not saying that he doesn’t like the young core, but most longtime assistant GMs would leap at getting the chance to be GM.

    190. Zanzibar

      Woj, Broussard, and Adridge like him too.

      He leaked them info or was more accessible than GMs like Phil. That’s got nothing to do with his ability to build a team.

    191. Brian Cronin

      Clearly, Perry is good at talking to reporters, so that will be a nice change at the very least. All in all, I have no problem with the hiring. Perry seems fine. With the guys above him, though, it sadly probably won’t matter much. But hey, the more competent executives here, the better!

    192. Ntilakilla

      The Perry hire actually makes sense when you compare our situation to Sactown’s after they unloaded Cousins. Maybe Mills sees how Perry did a nice job reconstructing the young Kings core after they traded their underachieving franchise star and wants Perry to do the same here after Melo is gone. Of course, our cap situation is a bigger problem thanks to Mills’ and Phill’s incompetence, but the potential is there to make a big splash by 2020…

    193. Ntilakilla

      He leaked them info or was more accessible than GMs like Phil.

      If Knicks hire Scott Perry as GM it'd be one of their smartest moves in a long time. Well respected with a great eye for talent— Chris Broussard (@Chris_Broussard) July 13, 2017

      Deal between Kings VP Scott Perry & Knicks for vacant NY GM gig is not done but heading that way. Perry one of most respected execs in game.— David Aldridge (@daldridgetnt) July 13, 2017

      Yes, these are guys who are endorsing the hire because he’s accessible and not because he’s acquitted himself as a smart exec.

    194. Cock Jowles, Not a Knicks Fan Because Fuck This Team

      Doesn’t Chris Broussard think the earth is 6,000 years old or something?

    195. Ntilakilla

      Another reporter who like Perry because he leaks good information!

      Many around the league credit Scott Perry's influence w/ has been viewed as a successful offseason w/ clarity and direction.— Jason Jones (@mr_jasonjones) July 13, 2017

    196. Ntilakilla

      This will be his first time being GM. Not saying that he doesn’t like the young core, but most longtime assistant GMs would leap at getting the chance to be GM.

      Hearing Kings supportive of Scott Perry. Knicks job is a dream job for him. Feel they have quality pieces in place moving forward.— James Ham (@James_HamNBCS) July 13, 2017

    197. ClashFan

      I wonder how much influence he actually had over Sacto’s decisions recently? Isn’t Vlade still calling the shots?

    198. Ntilakilla

      Even Asshola gives his backhanded compliment:

      Scott Perry is an experienced executive with connections. Also was in Orlando front office when they drafted Elfrid Payton & Mario Hezonja.— Frank Isola (@FisolaNYDN) July 13, 2017

    199. Zanzibar

      Yes, these are guys who are endorsing the hire because he’s accessible and not because he’s acquitted himself as a smart exec.

      You got it. Reporters rely on NBA execs for info. Those who are more accessible receive better reviews.

    200. Brian Cronin

      I wonder how much influence he actually had over Sacto’s decisions recently? Isn’t Vlade still calling the shots?

      Perry’s big thing is his connections to agents and his ease with players. Basically he’s the kind of guy who makes people feel comfortable. It helps a lot to get meetings with free agents who otherwise might not be interested. A lot of the Sacto reporters credited him with the George Hill deal, in particular. He’s also great with reporters, which is a nice change of pace here.

      The draft history with the teams he’s worked for are obviously all over the place, so I have no idea about that, but he has great relationships all over the league.

    201. Ntilakilla

      I wonder how much influence he actually had over Sacto’s decisions recently? Isn’t Vlade still calling the shots?

      Everyone around the league gives him the lion’s share credit for their very good 3 months in the offseason. Based on Vlade’s previous track record, I can see why.

    202. Ntilakilla

      You got it. Reporters rely on NBA execs for info. Those who are more accessible receive better reviews.

      tau·tol·o·gy/noun/ the saying of the same thing twice in different words, generally considered to be a fault of style (e.g., they arrived one after the other in succession ).

    203. chrisk06811

      I read that the compensation to Sac for hiring Steve Perry is that Ntilakilla and JK47 have to stop fighting.

    204. ptmilo

      Mills/Dolan and Vlade/Vivek negotiating over cash compensation is gonna end up with KP and Fox on the Spurs.

    205. JK47

      I read that the compensation to Sac for hiring Steve Perry is that Ntilakilla and JK47 have to stop fighting.

      Maybe hiring Steve Perry will give us the inside track to signing Neal Schon to play point guard

    206. Totes McGoats

      Oh hell naw! I know he wasn’t part of the Kings’ fuckery and they actually have had a great offseason this year..but the Kings are still tainted. And we want Perry in our front office?

      Not a good look is all I’m sayin

    207. Boriqua3

      Whoever hired or is hiring Perry, get a lollipop. He sounds like the opposite of Phil Jackson. Rebuilding a franchise involves proper customer service.

    208. chrisk06811

      Maybe hiring Steve Perry will give us the inside track to signing Neal Schon to play point guard

      That’s it, now I’m on JK47’s side in the feud, because he got my Journey reference……unless of course Ntilkilla can name another member of Journey…..without googling it…..which I submit is an impossible task.

    209. Ntilakilla

      Ntilkilla can name another member of Journey…..without googling it…..which I submit is an impossible task

      How about that Filipino dude who replaced Perry?

    210. JK47

      I was going to make a Steve Smith joke and even try to tie that in with the former Miami Heat wing but it just got too complicated

    211. Ntilakilla

      Melo trade update: despite thoughts Ryan Anderson is the hold up. I'm told the teams are trying to find a home for big man Myers Leonard.— Sports News (@JSports_ent) July 13, 2017

    212. #fireRambis

      Knucks looking at Scott Perry as GM who was ex Magic now Kings. Kings gave permission so they can take him and Kings will get Griffin

      that’s not a typo..

    213. djphan

      i’ll withhold judgement on perry… it’s very hard to attribute anything to someone who doesn’t have final say on matters and he def doesn’t have final say here either…

      but we did need a boring pick with some likeability to him… something we sorely needed with phil’s strangeness…

      and just like any new knicks gm.. he has a great opportunity to be the best one we’ve had in the dolan era… the bar is incredibly low…

    214. Ntilakilla

      Knucks looking at Scott Perry as GM who was ex Magic now Kings. Kings gave permission so they can take him and Kings will get Griffin

      Then they traded down.

    215. Bruno Almeida

      @240

      interesting, so Portland is 100% in it seems.

      Leonard is one of the weirdest players I’ve seen, he was terrible as a rookie, then all of a sudden became an efficient scorer who could not rebound, then started thinking he’s a Point Guard and became absolutely terrible again.

      he “only” makes 30 million for 3 more years, so it’s not the most cancerous shit I’ve ever seen, so….

    216. Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada

      Meyers Leonard had possibly the worst 50/40/90 season of all time

    217. DS

      Meyers Leonard had possibly the worst 50/40/90 season of all time

      WTF?!?! That’s amazing. He only played 55 games but still. Is this something that was widely discussed?

    218. KnickfaninNJ

      It’s a good thing that he gets along with other people in the league. Not doing that was a big failing of Phil. This should be obvious, but some posts seem to imply this is only a reason why people are praising him.

    219. #fireRambis

      maybe Evan Turner and Leonard for Knicks, Anderson for Blazers and Melo for Rockets

      that could work

    220. 2FOR18, understands math

      If Meyers Leonard showed up and said he was Ryan Anderson, would anyone notice?

    221. latke

      For those hoping for a tank (or if you prefer, “a true rebuild…”), this guy worked under both Presti and Hennigan when they were losing a lot of games and not making an effort to play for the short term.

      And I know people shit on Hennigan today, but he was good his first couple years, and then when he didn’t find the next Dwight Howard in the draft (surprise surprise), it seems like ownership stepped in and started forcing a lot of decisions down his throat.

    222. Zanzibar

      #fireRambis wrote: maybe Evan Turner and Leonard for Knicks, Anderson for Blazers and Melo for Rockets
      that could work

      Fire #fireRambis. That would be a terrible result and yet I could imagine Mills and Zeke thinking Turner is a good player and a great fit.

    223. latke

      Evan Turner can play point guard and by all accounts is a great locker room guy. He also won’t help with wins. I think the simple “let’s swap bad contracts” with Portland makes sense. However, I would expect it to be Houston paying the bribes in this instance rather than Portland.

    224. 2FOR18, understands math

      Turner at least can play some competent pg and makes 3 mil a year less than Anderson. That’s all I can say positively about him. But not him and Leonard, and not without a pick coming back. I’d rather keep melo than just get back Turner and Leonard.

    225. Mike R

      Perry is an exciting get being that it came completely out of left field. I wonder who decided to bring this guy in.

      I don’t think it will quite matter tho as long as mills and Dolan are in charge.

    226. ClashFan

      Looks like one of the rumors going on in Portland is that the Blazers are taking in Anderson and sending out Harkless (I guess to the Knicks) and Leonard as part of the deal. But the Knicks don’t want Leonard.

      If so, they must really want to get rid of Leonard, badly. I’d also guess that one other guy is headed out of Portland, too (an expiring or guy with a team option/QO for the 2nd year) since you’d think they’d want some salary relief in there.

      Surely the Rockets are sending a pick somewhere, too.

    227. dtrickey

      I like the Perry hire. I don’t know a great deal about him, but the commentary seems fairly positive, which is a turn up for anything Knicks. Still going to take a wait and see approach, but at least we haven’t gone the internal hire route. Will be interesting to see if he can get the Melo deal over the line and what he does post deal.

      If we took back Leonard is there any possibility we could flip him again for 2nds OR a couple of pieces? Does Brooklyn need another big? Surely there are some GM’s that would see Leonard as a helpful piece rather than a salary dump.

    228. bockadoo

      Bledsoe for Lee and KOQ? Then Leonard would take KOQ’s spot and it could be Bledsoe, Timmy, Harkless, KP and Willy starting 5. Not bad?

    229. Z-man

      Perry is a very smart hire for PR reasons. Not a big name, not a company man. Listen to the commentary here, does anything more need to be said?

      Whether he is actually good (not a fan of analytics…yikes!) or will actually be anything more than a figurehead stooge or stopgap fall guy remains to be seen. I for one am highly skeptical.

    230. 2FOR18, understands math

      Unfortunately, Lee and O’quinn make no sense for Phoenix. They have Booker, plus are set at PF and C with young’uns

    231. 2FOR18, understands math

      Figure head stooge sounds about right. He can be the new face of the franchise in public and in communications with other teams/players/agents. Then he can be the fall guy if things turn to shit. I doubt he’ll be a real shot caller.

    232. Z-man

      Bledsoe very good.
      Leonard very bad.
      Turner very, very bad.

      Seriously, I would much rather keep Melo than have any of Turner, Leonard or Anderson on the roster. I hope we don’t rush into a trade just to dump Melo.

    233. nicos

      The deal has to be either Portland dumps both Leonard and Turner and we get the first or Harkness and Leonard with the first going to Portland. Given that the Knicks appear adamant about not taking Leonard I fear it’s the former. Just coming away with Harkness (with no picks attached) would be fine with me- moving on from Melo and getting some cap relief in the bargain would be a win. Paying Evan Turner 54m over the next three? No f’ing thank you- I’d prefer to keep Melo and hope he opts out next year. Save us Steve Perry!

    234. Bruno Almeida

      @264

      I’ve read that, and while it does make some solid points, I think it shows a that blog’s complete disregard for player interaction of any kind. I’m generally on board with wp48 people in the sense that player interaction does not explain much, but come on: losing David Robinson and Sean Elliott for an entire season would have no impact whatsoever in Del Negro and Avery’ s production? one year older is more important than losing your two best players?

      I don’t think the Spurs ever purposefully went into the season with the intention to tank, but they did pounce at the opportunity when it presented itself, making no moves and giving major minutes to terrible players.

    235. chrismcnealy

      Didn’t know anything about perry until today, but there are reasons to be cautiously optimistic

      That is, unless after the discord of the Phil Jackson era, Jimmy Dolan decided (in an effort to finally have unity in the front office) that above all else the new GM also had to have 5 letters in his first and last name

    236. BigBlueAL

      Watching the Mavs Summer League team is tough. Smith Jr has 15 pts on 6 FGA midway thru the 2nd quarter.

    237. kevin5318

      @wojespn
      Story posting soon with @RamonaShelburne on ESPN: The Knicks have paused Carmelo Anthony trade talks with Houston and Cleveland.

      I’m guessing its to bring perry up to speed on the negotiations.

    238. Zanzibar

      So THIS TRADE would be the best scenario for the NYK. If Melo refuses to waive his trade kicker, I believe Rockets still have some non-guaranteed contracts which could make the trade still work. We receive Harkless and a lot of cap space in this deal and take no bad contracts. Houston’s got a bag of goodies – Hartenstein, Qi, 202 pick, 2nd round picks – which will have to given to Nets and Portland. Is there enough in the bag to make Blazers and Nets happy? If not, we might have to throw in a 2nd round pick and/or KOQ. Perhaps, though not likely, Nets or Blazers would be interested in Randle, Kuz or Lance.

    239. Bruno Almeida

      yeah, it’s coming true, Melo is staying.

      fuck this franchise.

      edit: yeah its apparently because of Perry’s arrival… not so bad of a sign it seems, let’s wait.

    240. Ntilakilla

      Story posting soon with @RamonaShelburne on ESPN: The Knicks have paused Carmelo Anthony trade talks with Houston and Cleveland.

      Damnit. Maybe this is us playing hardball with Houston and Cleveland, but I don’t like this one bit.

    241. chrismcnealy

      @270

      That’s encouraging. Hopefully conveys some discipline and a lack of desperation to the other teams that could result in us not being taken advantage of as easily. Still expect us to be on the losing end, but hopefully no more than marginally

    242. Ntilakilla

      I don’t have a problem with us stalling the talks until Perry gets involved. That’s actually something a well run organization would do. Maybe he will bring in a new perspective or parties into the negotiations which will benefit us. But this is the Knicks and when things get stalled they usually get fucked.

    243. xcat01

      So how does everyone feel? We were just played by Dolan AGAIN. I doubt he ever wanted to trade Melo, he is just making a false attempt to humor the fans. So is it too early for the front office to blame Perry?

    244. Ntilakilla

      I dunno that I've ever seen more starts and stops with trade rumors than I've seen w the Knicks and Melo the past five yrs. It's unreal.— Chris Herring (@Herring_NBA) July 14, 2017

    245. The Glass Half Rebuilt

      Listen. This is the best strategy going forward in the Melo trade. CP3 and LeBron James will soon put pressure on their front offices (most likely LeBron because the Cavs have done nothing all summer) and they will be forced to give up an asset or lose a superstar next summer.

    246. BigBlueAL

      Melo playing out this season and then opting out isn’t the worst thing that could happen. Probably the better option than making a bad trade.

    247. Ntilakilla

      Knicks have paused trade talks with HOU and CLE. Sense is they want Scott Perry to get acclimated and want his input on things.— KnicksNation (@KnicksNation) July 14, 2017

    248. The Glass Half Rebuilt

      Also, if the options are Ryan Anderson or let Melo banana bolt next summer? Sign me up for the latter. TH2, Melo, KP, and Willy Hernangomez will get buckets.

    249. ptmilo

      it’s gonna be awkward when Melo finds out mills gave his number to baker in exchange for the player option

    250. dtrickey

      Watching the Mavs Summer League team is tough. Smith Jr has 15 pts on 6 FGA midway thru the 2nd quarter.

      I don’t doubt that DSJ will be a solid pro, but probably no need to beat yourself up over SL numbers. We didn’t even get to see Frank in the same scenario, so who knows how he would have performed. Again, the key is not get to worked up about SL numbers. Much like everyone freaked out over Ball’s game one stats, then jumped back on the bandwagon after his 35 point game.

    251. kevin5318

      ugh

      The New York Knicks are pausing trade talks centered on Carmelo Anthony and want to pursue a conversation with the eight-team NBA All-Star about possibly reincorporating him into the organization, league sources told ESPN.
      The Knicks want Anthony to meet with the new front office and coach Jeff Hornacek in the near future, but it’s unlikely that Anthony will respond with eagerness about a plan to reincorporate himself into a franchise that has been pushing him — publicly and privately — to accept a trade out of New York, league sources said.

    252. Zanzibar

      If we got Harkless, 15m in cap, and took no bad contracts – would you be willing to give Portland a 2018 pick swap option if this were the final piece required for the trade?

    253. The Glass Half Rebuilt

      I know I’m in the minority here, but I’ve grown to love Carmelo Anthony. Advanced stats and defense be damned, he wanted to be here through it all and he brought us some great moments down the stretch of games. After the 17 win season, he didn’t waive his NTC. He didn’t even hate Phil until Phil started running his mouth and insisting on Kurt Rambis being important. He’s been a hero to me and a lot of Knicks fans my age (I’m 23 and have been reading this site since I was 14 years old). I want him gone now, too, but I wouldn’t hate to see him play out the string and go join a super team in 2018. Especially if it means we don’t have to pay Ryan Anderson.

    254. dtrickey

      I feel Melo to the Rockets gets done one way or another. All reports make it seem it is a logistical thing as opposed to the willingness of parties. That said, if we can’t get a good deal, the FO needs to show some testicular fortitude and walk away. Houston (and Cleveland to a degree) wants Melo. We can let him ride out his contract if need be. Steve Perry needs to take some inspiration from his namesake. Don’t stop believing you can get a good deal Steve……….

    255. The Glass Half Rebuilt

      On the other hand, if he signs another contract with the Knicks I’ll be pretty pissed. This reeks of the Knicks wanting to get in on the Banana Boat + KP.

    256. Zanzibar

      The New York Knicks are pausing trade talks centered on Carmelo Anthony and want to pursue a conversation with the eight-team NBA All-Star about possibly reincorporating him into the organization, league sources told ESPN.
      The Knicks want Anthony to meet with the new front office and coach Jeff Hornacek in the near future, but it’s unlikely that Anthony will respond with eagerness about a plan to reincorporate himself into a franchise that has been pushing him — publicly and privately — to accept a trade out of New York, league sources said.

      Man my Melo/MSG conspiracy theory is true! Not even Ntilakilla could deny it now. And here I figured we were about to get Harkless, 15m in cap, and take no bad contracts. This whole summer has been nothing but a hope-despair cycle.

    257. Ntilakilla

      The New York Knicks are pausing trade talks centered on Carmelo Anthony and want to pursue a conversation with the eight-team NBA All-Star about possibly reincorporating him into the organization, league sources told ESPN.
      The Knicks want Anthony to meet with the new front office and coach Jeff Hornacek in the near future, but it’s unlikely that Anthony will respond with eagerness about a plan to reincorporate himself into a franchise that has been pushing him — publicly and privately — to accept a trade out of New York, league sources said.

      What.
      The.
      Fuck?

    258. Boriqua3

      @288, thanks for sharing GHRebuilt. I’m more on the side of complete turnover. Since Dolan isn’t going away, then eliminate as many of his mistakes as possible. CA, was a Knickerbocker mistake.

      These young cats have some rough terrain ahead BUT the energy to get through it

    259. the don nelson era

      Seems like the Knicks are negotiating with/motivating the Rockets via that leak. What else would it be?

    260. DRed

      Hopefully it’s just a negotiating tactic. Melo sucks, and any plan based on reincorporating him into the franchise (I thought we were focused on youth??) is not going to be a good one.

    261. thenoblefacehumper

      Deep down we all knew this is where it was headed. Hope he gives us another “discount” on his next Mega Max Melo contract!

    262. The Glass Half Rebuilt

      The longer this trade takes is the more likely LeBron makes Dan Gilbert trade Kevin Love to go get Carmelo Anthony.

    263. Zanzibar

      The next act in this farce will be Melo playing Hamlet for a few days and then saying it was a conversation with KP which convinced him to stay.

    264. DRed

      It’s extremely Knicksy to be so focused on trading Melo we don’t get a point guard and then bring Melo back.

    265. Bruno Almeida

      this is so… Knicks.

      can’t wait to watch Melo for 6 more years!

      it’s getting to the point where I’m 100% sure that no matter the outcome, this team will win 30 games and again fuck up trying to win + trying to rebuild at the same time.

      so the hope now is that NYK maybe leaked the story about reintegrating Melo, to see if Houston or Cleveland will bite (obviously not) and see if we can get anything slightly better in the trade… and the guys conducting this orchestra are Mills + new dude in his first 2 days on the job.

      great!

    266. Z-man

      Don’t worry about a PG. We can pick one up off the waiver wire or out of the G-league or Euroleagues. Anything but a bad contract that lasts longer than 2 years.

    267. BigBlueAL

      We wouldn’t be worried about a PG if they had drafted Dennis Smith Jr. Sorry I just had to lol.

    268. Z-man

      Don’t get me wrong, I’m all for a favorable Melo deal, with the emphasis on favorable. As a GM, I would have a hard line, banking on him opting out at year’s end.

    269. Ntilakilla

      Dennis Smith is sloppy as fuck in the Summer League games. I get that people are in love with the pointz, but he looks like a ball hog type PG.

    270. ptmilo

      this kind of reminds me of the Orlando Magic situation except Melo is Orlando and we are Dwight

    271. Z-man

      Oh, I’m with u, BBA. But who knows, maybe Frank becomes The Glove 2.0 and Dennis becomes Derrick Rose 2.0, then all will be forgiven.

    272. Ntilakilla

      Wait, Ntilakilla doesn’t like DSjr’s game? What a shock!

      I don’t like anyone whose game reminds me of Derrick Rose.

    273. The Glass Half Rebuilt

      http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=ybj2vkwc

      4 team trade that makes everyone happy (I think). Gorgui Dieng, Kay Felder, and a Minnesota 1st round pick. Minnesota gets a totally kick ass starting five of Teague, Lee, Butler, Love, and Towns all for the price of Andrew Wiggins (who hasn’t shown growth) and a mid 20s 1st round pick. They’ve been out of the playoffs so long, and this team has to prove to Butler that they will build a winner around him and Towns. They also shed the Dieng and Aldrich contracts. The Cavs get Melo (and O’Quinn if they ask nicely) and LeBron is at least pleased for the season. We get two starters who will run and play well in Hornacek’s offensive system. They also score POINTZ. Bledsoe, Hardaway Jr, Wiggins, Porzingis, and Hernangomez would sell a lot of tickets and push for a playoff spot in the East, and Ntilikina/Baker could play in roles off the bench more suited for them at this current point.

    274. BigBlueAL

      Watching him play he is the opposite of sloppy but not surprised by the comment considering who made it.

    275. The Glass Half Rebuilt

      My observation is that Dennis Smith Jr has bad court vision. I’m not mad we passed on him yet.0

    276. er

      Damn it. I just got myself to the point where I could keep the Knicks in the background……now they go and keep Melo. Smh. This fucking team man. On the other hand, playoffs in NYC wold make me feel a little better. I’m so torn.

    277. Ntilakilla

      Watching him play he is the opposite of sloppy but not surprised by the comment considering who made it.

      He’s produced 17 assists to 13 turnovers in four Summer League games. Please tell me how this isn’t sloppy.

    278. 2FOR18, understands math

      Man are the Lakers going to be fun to watch. Plus they’ll probably get a high lottery pick. I love watching Ball; everything is push, push push to the basket from the instant he touches it.

    279. Bruno Almeida

      its gonna be a loooong season of people guzzling over any 20 points game for DSJr and hating on every Ntilikina turnover…

      it’s not about now, it’s about who has the better career.

    280. Ntilakilla

      A sloppy rookie. He takes a lot of risks. Plays for the highlight reel so casual fans love him.

    281. bidiong

      I would think Houston would do whatever to get Melo because it would have to make them the favorite to bring LeBron over after next season. 3/4ths of the boat together. Wade would come running.

    282. DRed

      I still think Philly fucked up by taking Fultz first-I think a Ball/Simmons offense would have been incredible.

    283. Ntilakilla

      its gonna be a loooong season of people guzzling over any 20 points game for DSJr and hating on every Ntilikina turnover…

      Pretty much. Its the same mentality that has allowed Rose to still have a cult of followers while better, more solid point guards like George Hill don’t get half the praise. People scout a boxscore.

    284. er

      its gonna be a loooong season of people guzzling over any 20 points game for DSJr and hating on every Ntilikina turnover…

      it’s not about now, it’s about who has the better career

      Nah….if Frank brings the defense it will be ok

    285. er

      Pretty much. Its the same mentality that has allowed Rose to still have a cult of followers while better, more solid point guards like George Hill don’t get half the praise. People scout a boxscore.

      Your ROSE COMPARISONS Are lazy as shit. Just Cuz he’s athletic doesn’t mean he will play like D Rose. He could be a better Westbrook. We have to wait and see

    286. latke

      It takes some fucking hella strong cognitive dissonance abilities to at the same time talk about how meaningless or shitty pieces like Lee are Noah are and at the same time go on about how we need to find another team to take on a bad contract so we have more cap space. The Phil Jackson era is an epic treatise on how pointless cap space is to bad teams and how wasteful it is to pursue cap space when your team sucks yet people here still seem largely united around the idea that it would be best to bribe a team to take back Ryan Anderson’s contract rather than keep the bribe ourselves. I really don’t get it, fellas.

    287. 2FOR18, understands math

      This really is a flashback to a young Kidd. This could be a good team to adopt if melo stays.

    288. Cock Jowles, Not a Knicks Fan Because Fuck This Team

      He could be a better Westbrook. We have to wait and see

      Your Westbook comparison is lazy as shit. Just because he’s athletic doesn’t mean he’ll play like Westbrook. He could also be a better version of Magic, Kareem, Jerry West, Gheorge Muresan and Jordan combined. We have to wait and see.

    289. Bruno Almeida

      @325

      I think George is better, but I mean, if you’re the Warriors, unless its Lebron or someone like maybe Giannis (just because he’s so young) you wouldn’t mess up anything about this team, right?

      what I’m complaining about the DSJr x Frank discussion is that it’s freaking summer league. You have a right to think the Knicks missed the pick, but summer league performances should be banned from any meaningful conversation about basketball to be honest.

      friendly reminder that Glen Rice Jr was a MVP of the Summer League.

    290. Zanzibar

      KB.Net Intervention:

      (1) Melo’s NOT opting out of 28m unless NYK are willing to overpay him because no other team’s gonna give a 34yo deteriorating Melo (35yo in playoffs) a contract that would make up anywhere near that 28m. Even the new and improved NYK no longer overpay…oh wait

      (2) Bron does not want Melo. He and Tristan Thompson share the same agent I believe. He made sure TT was a Cav and got paid. He’s not banishing him to this Sh!t pot. And Kevin > Melo so that’s a non-starter.

    291. The Glass Half Rebuilt

      You can’t compare anybody to Russell Westbrook simply because Russell Westbrook is the greatest athlete to ever play point guard and he’s probably the biggest chuck to play point guard, too. Dennis Smith Jr already has a better handle and better 3 point jumper than Westbrook, but he’ll never be able to just bully his way to a 50 point triple double like Westbrook did. Dennis Smith Jr’s ceiling is Damian Lillard.

    292. BigBlueAL

      Lazy as shit is saying he’s all about pointzzz. The reason he was projected so highly is because he filled out the box score with assists, rebs and steals and it’s been no different during Summer League. Beyond being crazy athletic the kid can flat out play and yes he’s fun as hell to watch.

    293. TheOakmanCometh

      Not sure why people are high on Sacramento’s offseason. After the Boogie trade they had established a decent young core, but then they blew it with their free agent signings.

      Signed old man Z-Bo despite having a ton of bigs already. Signed old man Vince Carter. Signed George Hill to a 3 year deal despite having just drafted Fox.

      Given that Perry has been quoted as being against tanking, I’m worried that he’s in favor of these veteran stopgap types.

    294. The Glass Half Rebuilt

      If I had to choose between a 6’2″ Dame Lillard and a 6’5″ George Hill, guess which one I’m picking?

    295. djphan

      passing on dennis smith was by far the worst move of the offseason and it’s something that’s going to haunt us for a long long time….

    296. 2FOR18, understands math

      So er, you’re basically saying that you’re a melo fan, and will go where he goes, and not really a Knicks fan?

    297. Ntilakilla

      Your ROSE COMPARISONS Are lazy as shit.

      They aint my comparisons bruh.

      When Carlisle asked Smith Jr. over FaceTime what player he resembles the most, Smith Jr. gave an answer that not all players would give.

      “I asked him the question of who he thinks his game is like. He said he thought he was a bit like Derrick Rose,” Carlisle told the media after the selection was made.

    298. er

      No I’m a knick fan….I just wanted another team to follow. The Knicks have aged me. I do like Melo and would have rooted for the rockets too

      @343

    299. Ntilakilla

      same age, same contract? give me Hill every day.

      Word on this. A smart franchise like San Antonio understands this.

    300. Ntilakilla

      I think I’m like a porn star too.

      Derrick rose still can’t shoot to this day.

      I have no clue what you’re saying here. But I will demonstrate once more that the comparison isn’t mine.

      “I believe I’m a lot like Derrick Rose, but he still had a lot of flashes of him showing how he can thrive in that [triangle] offense,” Smith Jr. said.

      If you think he’s just comparing his jumper to Derrick Rose you’re missing the point – as usual. He’s comparing their approaches to the game and using Rose as the model of PG he wants to become. And to be honest, there are remarkable similarities.

    301. 2FOR18, understands math

      Ok er, so adopt the Lakers with me.
      melo not only isn’t get traded, but he will retire a Knick and then be hired to replace Houston when he takes over for Mills.

    302. Ntilakilla

      @349

      The problem is that ESPN doesn’t show highlights of defenders fighting through screens to impede and harass ballhandlers but they will spooge all over a missed low percentage dunk like the one DSJ tried in a link here.

    303. Ntilakilla

      And if they brought Melo back and he plays well, at the deadline with less salary and less Phil his value could be better.— Steve Popper (@StevePopper) July 14, 2017

    304. Bruno Almeida

      (btw, read the text till the end, there’s a Jahlil Okafor play that I’ve watched 10 times already, its comedic gold)

    305. yellowboy90

      Anyone saying Smith Jr is playing sloppy or is not a good passer has not watched him play. The guy is making great passes every game but the guys around him are not that good and miss a lot of open shots. He has also been quick to pass the ball up court instead of bringing the ball up himself. What I like most about him is that he plays at different speeds offensively and has look comfortable playing off the ball when on the floor with Yogi Ferral. Defensively he has been up and down but more up than down. He looks comfortable guarding pgs but looked real good defending bigger twos. There were several times tonight where he suffocated Justin Jackson even while fighting through screens. Another thing you see is that he has active hands and plays passing lanes well. You can see why he was one of the leading steals artist in this draft.

      Overall, besides his explosion capability he plays the game nothing like Rose. Smith Jr looks like a true pg. He honestly looks like a cross between Lillard and Lowry. He has lillard’s height and explosion plus some more with Lowry’s bulk, strength, and stat stuffing ability. The guy actually looks to box out down low with the bigs.

      By the way Franz said he had Smith Jr ahead of Frank without question.

      I just wished the young Knicks and Frank had the chanice to experience Vegas. This draft seems like the perfect one to gauge prospect because of the many guards in this draft. This was a heavy pg and sf draft. It would have been great if Orlando and Isaac were there too.

    306. GoNyGoNyGo

      We have a new GM.
      The first thing to happen after that is that we hear is they put Melo talks on hold.

      If he’s a shrewd and capable GM, right now he’s trying to raise the price for Anthony.
      If he’s another moron, he actually wants to keep him here because he thinks it’s a good thing.

      The trade doesn’t have to happen now. As we approach the trade deadline, teams are going to declare themselves in or out. Teams that feel like they have a shot to win it all if they land a prolific scorer will give up valuable future assets (#1 picks) for such a player. Houston and Cleveland are two such teams. There may be others.

      I don’t even care if we don’t have a point guard. Let the kid play.

    307. BigBlueAL

      Kyle Lowry is a pretty good comparison, especially if he can improve his 3pter as he gets older like Lowry did.

    308. nicos

      George Hill’s career assist rate is 18.8. He’s had one season where his assist rate was above 30, three where it was above 20 (so that’s six(!!) seasons of below 20% assist rate from your point guard if you’re counting). Hill scores efficiently and takes care of the basketball but is an awful playmaker. In Rose’s mvp season his assist rate was 38.7 and the year after before he blew out his knee it was over 40. Hill is obviously a much better defender (though Rose was passible if not great before the injuries) but I’d take a pre-injury Rose over George Hill all day long- he had back to back .200+ ws seasons before his knees exploded.

    309. Brian Cronin

      Scott Perry is clearly a well-respected professional guy who players actively like and who will actually talk to the media and not hide from a press conference. But yeah, I do worry a bit that Mills brought him specifically because he’s anti-rebuild and anti-stats. It’d be less of a problem if he was coming into an organization that was good on stats, as some variety of approaches is always useful, but if Mills is bringing him in because he has similar views as Mills (and is just a more competent guy at expressing those views) then that would disappoint me.

    310. BigBlueAL

      Derek Harper, Greg Anthony, Charlie Ward and Chris Childs will always be my heroes…..

    311. Bruno Almeida

      @358

      nicos, the comparison was between Lillard and Hill, but let’s talk about it anyway.

      Hill was not a starting PG for the first 4 years of his career, so that’s 4 out of those 6 years.

      In the years he has started as a PG (for Indiana and Utah), his teams have won 49, 56, 38 (Hill only played 43 games), 45 and 51. Yes, he’s not a “playmaker”, whatever that means, but he played with dominant secondary ball handlers all those years (George, even Lance Stephenson for a while, and Hayward / Joe Johnson) and his teams did pretty fine without a “playmaker” at the 1.

      Rose was the primary ball handler for pretty much 38 minutes every single game in that Bulls season, which makes a lot of difference in ast% numbers.

      yes, pre-injury Rose might have been better than Hill. Lillard, with his absolutely terrible defense but pointzz? nope.

    312. 2FOR18, understands math

      Smith has looked great to me. I think he’s an injury waiting to happen though.
      Philly messed up. They passed up Jason Kidd for Eric Bledsoe.

    313. er

      He’s comparing their approaches to the game and using Rose as the model of PG he wants to become. And to be honest, there are remarkable similarities.

      Uh no….it’s the athleticism.

    314. er

      Ok er, so adopt the Lakers with me

      I’m cool with that. Kuzma…and Lonzo, he looks brilliant out there.

    315. Ntilakilla

      He’s comparing their approaches to the game and using Rose as the model of PG he wants to become. And to be honest, there are remarkable similarities.

      LOL. The quote has DSJ reference Rose in relationship to how he operates in the Triangle offense. Read again.

    316. Bruno Almeida

      I think people will freak out in the beginning of Lonzo’s career because he’ll probably see a big dip in his shooting numbers as he adjusts, but hes the one dude I safely assume will figure it out and be a mega star… he’s just too intelligent on the court to not figure it out. He might never be the great defender Kidd once was, but a 85% prime Kidd would still be a superstar.

    317. Bruno Almeida

      (btw Kidd is an interesting example of how ws48 is heavily based on efficient shooting compared to wp48 for example. if you look only at ws48 it would seem Kidd was not a superstar at all, .133 career ws48)

    318. Ntilakilla

      I think people will freak out in the beginning of Lonzo’s career because he’ll probably see a big dip in his shooting numbers as he adjusts, but hes the one dude I safely assume will figure it out and be a mega star… he’s just too intelligent on the court to not figure it out. He might never be the great defender Kidd once was, but a 85% prime Kidd would still be a superstar.

      He’ll make up for it by being a way better spot up shooter than Kidd was in his prime.

    319. nicos

      In the years he has started as a PG (for Indiana and Utah), his teams have won 49, 56, 38 (Hill only played 43 games), 45 and 51. Yes, he’s not a “playmaker”, whatever that means, but he played with dominant secondary ball handlers all those years (George, even Lance Stephenson for a while, and Hayward / Joe Johnson) and his teams did pretty fine without a “playmaker” at the 1.

      Rose was the primary ball handler for pretty much 38 minutes every single game in that Bulls season, which makes a lot of difference in ast% numbers.

      yes, pre-injury Rose might have been better than Hill. Lillard, with his absolutely terrible defense but pointzz? nope.

      Yeah I was going to amend it to say that Rose obviously had the ball in his hands a lot more but that’s at least partly because he’s a better playmaker. I like Hill fine but he’s not a guy who can get into the lane/create for others on a regular basis. I agree that Lillard would need to be more efficient, a better playmaker, or maybe both to be more valuable than Hill given how awful he is defensively but Hill is hardly the model I would want for a young point guard.

    320. Ntilakilla

      I agree that Lillard would need to be more efficient, a better playmaker, or maybe both to be more valuable than Hill given how awful he is defensively but Hill is hardly the model I would want for a young point guard.

      Why? Hill is exactly what we should want from Frank. He can play a variety of offensive systems that will allow us to operate without the ball always in his hands.

    321. Bruno Almeida

      @369

      oh, Hill would not be the ideal model of PG I would love for my team too, but given the choice between Lillard or Hill, I would still take Hill… he provides more while taking away less in my opinion.

    322. nicos

      Worth noting that during Kidd’s prime years- from when he took over the Suns from KJ through the Nets years- most of his teams weren’t very good offensively but were fantastic on the defensive end. He derived a huge chunk of his value from being one of the all-time great defensive guards. I think Ball could be more effective offensively (given as Ntilakilla mentioned his superior spot up shooting) but he’s not going to give you anywhere near the defensive value that Kidd did.

    323. nicos

      Why? Hill is exactly what we should want from Frank. He can play a variety of offensive systems that will allow us to operate without the ball always in his hands.

      Because somebody has to make plays. If nobody can force a double team or break down a defense off of the dribble you’re going to have a really tough time scoring. I’d love to see the Knicks run more motion (rather than stand around watching Rose or Melo) but who on the roster is an above average passer for his position? KP is one of the worst screening bigs in the league which doesn’t help matters either. This team needs somebody to generate player/ball movement. Hill is fine when you’ve got George or Hayward to put pressure on the defense but the Knicks are going to need more out of Frank (or whoever winds up playing point).

    324. Bruno Almeida

      I agree in some points with you nicos, but last year the Knicks had both a guy who could break down defenses, Rose, and a guy who still commanded double teams every so often, Melo, and the team was still terrible.

      I think being efficient and making the right passes on a solid system is more important than breaking down defenses with poor shooting efficiency, and there are more creative ways to create offense than just have a guy take his defender off the dribble and create a shot.

    325. Ntilakilla

      I’d love to see the Knicks run more motion (rather than stand around watching Rose or Melo) but who on the roster is an above average passer for his position?

      I think Willy will/can be.

    326. Ntilakilla

      I think being efficient and making the right passes on a solid system is more important than breaking down defenses with poor shooting efficiency, and there are more creative ways to create offense than just have a guy take his defender off the dribble and create a shot.

      This.

    327. nicos

      I think being efficient and making the right passes on a solid system is more important than breaking down defenses with poor shooting efficiency, and there are more creative ways to create offense than just have a guy take his defender off the dribble and create a shot.

      Agreed, as I said I’d love to see more movement -both player and ball- but with Timmy, Lee and KP as starters (none of whom are particularly good passers or screeners) I don’t think that’s in the cards though I agree that Willy showed flashes of passing ability- lots of good reads that wound up turnovers because he underestimated the recovery time of defenders. But if we’re talking about models for point guards I’d like a point guard who, regardless of the system, can get your team a good shot when the clock is running down and Hill ain’t that guy. The model is Chris Paul right? Push the ball, find guys in their spots quickly and take over when necessary. Hill doesn’t push the ball much, is okay but not great at getting the guys the ball where they need it, and he really can’t take guys off of the dribble at all so no, I don’t think he’s any kind of role model for Frank if Frank is going to be the full time point. He might be the most realistic model for Frank (and that’s why I preferred Smith) but I’m hoping Frank can play downhill with more frequency than Hill does.

    328. Bruno Almeida

      I think Frank has one big advantage over Hill, his size and length.

      I think height is often underrated for playmakers because it is not easy to quantify how much it helps in terms of seeing the court and finding teammates. By all accounts, Frank is a hard worker with basketball IQ beyond his years, and when he played the point mainly (France U18 teams generally) he was widely praised for his court vision and decision making .

      of course, if a guy has the speed, the ability to change gears at will and the court vision, like Paul, he becomes the best PG in the game and the model, yes.

      we don’t know if Frank will be athletically capable of maximizing his court vision, willingness to share the ball and the IQ he’s touted to have; we also dont know if Smith has the IQ and the willingness and the court vision to maximize his athletic abilities.

      all in all, considering defensive potential (a clear edge to Ntilikina at this point to me, at least potentially), I think its easier to help a 18 year old to grow athletically and learn how to change velocity / utilize his body to get himself into positions than it is to teach a marvel athlete to play smart basketball, that’s why Im on board with Ntilikina for the long run.

    329. heavencent35

      Dennis Smith Jr is no Lilliard and definitely not Westbrook.
      He is the franchise. Steve Francis. Which is not a bad comparison. He’s the type of player who can star in a mediocre franchise.
      Frank is a different player. He can be a ron Harper Jason Kidd Shaun livingston hybrid. Could be the guard in a championship team.
      This is the problem with us Knicks fans. We want immediate result. Smith could be better today but that’s not the reason why we drafted frank. I still believe that he will be a better player in 2-3 years

    330. #fireRambis

      if Melo trade talk is halted as per reports, still don’t have starter PG and what happens to Lee and Noah

      unless Ron Baker is the starter

    Comments are closed.