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Saturday, July 22, 2017

Knicks Morning News (2017.07.09)

  • [NYTimes] It’s Official: Tim Hardaway Jr. Is Back With the Knicks
    (Sunday, July 09, 2017 3:05:26 AM)

    Hardaway, who was selected by the Knicks in the 2013 draft and most recently played for the Atlanta Hawks, was traded away by Phil Jackson in 2015.

  • [NYTimes] James Harden Gets Record-Setting Contract Extension From Houston Rockets
    (Saturday, July 08, 2017 11:26:07 PM)

    Harden is to receive a four-year extension worth about $160 million, giving him an overall deal of six years for a guaranteed $228 million.

  • [SNY Knicks] Report: Rockets pursuing Anthony after locking down Harden
    (Saturday, July 08, 2017 6:36:28 PM)

    The Houston Rockets signed guard James Harden to a four-year contract extension for about $160 million Saturday, and now reportedly are turning to their attention to acquiring the Knicks’ Carmelo Anthony.

  • [SNY Knicks] Dotson hoping to establish himself in Knicks backcourt
    (Saturday, July 08, 2017 1:02:00 PM)

    Knicks second-round pick Damyean Dotson hopes he can have a significant role in New York’s backcourt as a rookie.

  • [SNY Knicks] Hawks won’t match Knicks offer to Tim Hardaway Jr.
    (Saturday, July 08, 2017 12:48:05 PM)

    G Tim Hardaway Jr. will be returning to the Knicks, as the Hawks are not matching New York’s 4 year, $71 million offer sheet that was signed on Thursday evening.

  • [NYPost] Knicks closing in on David Griffin for general manager post
    (Saturday, July 08, 2017 10:07:26 PM)

    It looks like the Knicks are closing in on a new general manager — but not a team president. After many conversations and a dinner meeting with acting team president Steve Mills on Friday, the Knicks are moving toward contract negotiations with David Griffin to become the team’s next general manager, according to an ESPN…

  • [NYPost] Tim Hardaway Jr. may have further sealed Carmelo’s fate
    (Saturday, July 08, 2017 3:36:31 PM)

    When Tim Hardaway Jr. was traded two years ago on draft night for the rights to Notre Dame point guard Jerian Grant, Carmelo Anthony was ticked, according to sources. It felt like a step back for a franchise he thought was trying to win at the time. Hardaway and Anthony had become close after being…

  • [NYPost] How Tim Hardaway Jr. became a $71M Knicks project
    (Saturday, July 08, 2017 10:37:40 AM)

    LAS VEGAS — The Hawks’ reported decision not to match the Knicks’ staggering offer sheet for Tim Hardaway Jr. paves the way for the young wing player’s return to the Garden. His former team says he is a different, better player than the one who left New York two years ago — mainly because he…

  • [NYPost] The Knicks win Tim Hardaway Jr.
    (Saturday, July 08, 2017 8:42:08 AM)

    After a two-year course in defense in Atlanta, Tim Hardaway Jr. is a Knick again. The Hawks notified the Knicks on Saturday afternoon they would not match the four-year, $71 million offer sheet. In a statement announcing the signing, acting president Steve Mills said: “Bringing back Tim to his original NBA home is an exciting…

  • [ESPN] Sources: Knicks, Griffin nearing contract talks
    (Sunday, July 09, 2017 12:07:40 AM)

    Sources: Knicks, Griffin nearing contract talks

  • [ESPN] Hardaway Jr. inks Knicks deal after Hawks pass
    (Saturday, July 08, 2017 12:28:52 PM)

    Hardaway Jr. inks Knicks deal after Hawks pass

  • [NYDN] News looks back at a year of athletes involved in social activism
    (Saturday, July 08, 2017 10:09:32 PM)

    Carmelo Anthony had a helluva year. The Knicks are a mess and have been dormant in free agency.

  • [NYDN] Hawks will not match Knicks’ $71M offer for Tim Hardaway Jr.
    (Saturday, July 08, 2017 9:57:54 PM)

    The Knicks are getting their man.

  • [NYDN] Steve Mills meets with David Griffin about GM opening: report
    (Saturday, July 08, 2017 9:11:55 PM)

    The Knicks are getting closer to finding their next general manager.

  • [NYDN] Former Knicks president Phil Jackson tweets lakeside photo
    (Saturday, July 08, 2017 8:07:56 PM)

    It looks like Phil Jackson has found some Zen far away from the basketball court.

  • [NY Newsday] Tim Hardaway is a Knick as Hawks decline to match offer
    (Sunday, July 09, 2017 2:51:46 AM)

    The Knicks gave the Atlanta Hawks 71 million reasons, plus a few more, not to match Tim Hardaway Jr.’s offer sheet, and it worked.

  • [NY Newsday] Report: Knicks’ Steve Mills meets with David Griffin about GM job
    (Sunday, July 09, 2017 12:58:00 AM)

    The Knicks could be close to filling the front-office vacancy that opened when they parted ways with Phil Jackson.

  • 183 comments on “Knicks Morning News (2017.07.09)

    1. Z-man

      That’s a great trade by the Nets. They just made their lost pick a lot less valuable. Not sure what Ujiri was thinking, did he need cap relief?

    2. The Glass Half Rebuilt

      I’m really interested in who will start for us at point guard. I see no reason why it shouldn’t be Ty Lawson, but something tells me it is going to be a season-long carousel that keeps the Knicks from being competitive.

    3. Brian Cronin

      That’s a great trade by the Nets. They just made their lost pick a lot less valuable. Not sure what Ujiri was thinking, did he need cap relief?

      I think that’s precisely it. They spent a ton of money this offseason already and Carroll wasn’t really in their plans any longer.

    4. NYFaithful33

      Ty Lawson would be a bad idea. We’re looking to have guys capable of mentoring young players in our team and Lawson has shown his immaturity time and again. Remember the video of him smoking hookah, talking about going to another team while still a, member of the Nuggets? If I remember correctly he’s been fined or suspended multiple times for off the court issues, that’s not what you’re looking to have your young players exposed to.

      Also Lawson is not what he once was as a player. He wouldn’t be worth the headaches. Play the kids, or get Andre Miller out of retirement (not that I have any clue if he can play basketball anymore, just that’s the type of mentor I’d want).

    5. The Glass Half Rebuilt

      You know, I want nothing to do with anyone in Cleveland’s front office. I have a very low opinion of them because they were consistently bad at evaluating talent. This is the same organization that drafted Dion Waiters and Anthony Bennett with top 5 picks. David Griffin rose up through the Phoenix Suns’ organization and they were really good for a really long time. He seems like a good executive, and I liked what his plan looked like in terms of hiring Blatt and building a young team around Irving, Wiggins, and Thompson. I think he got phased out in Cleveland because LeBron has Dan Gilbert on manners and he had to do whatever LeBron James said he wanted done.

      I felt it was obvious the Cavs didn’t want to offer JR Smith $55M or Thompson $80M, but LeBron made it known it needed to get done and therefore it got done. My only problem with Griffin is I want nothing to do with the Cavs’ scouting department. The Cavs haven’t drafted a good basketball player since Tristan Thompson in 2011. We draft good ballers every year here. If Griffin wants to replace our scouts he can get a job elsewhere, because when shit hits the fan and we end up losing a lot of games, it comforts me to know that the Knicks will draft a good basketball player.

    6. The Glass Half Rebuilt

      Ty Lawson had a decent season last year and stayed out of trouble despite playing for the most dysfunctional team in the sport. Sacramento and New York are different markets, but the Kings were a real mess and he wasn’t a part of the problem there. I’d take a flier on him simply because he can pass, he won’t command too many minutes, and he’s better than Derrick Rose (who is probably the other “veteran mentor” we’re looking at).

    7. MSA

      I don’t mind Lawson on a near minimum or non-guarateed contract.

      If (when) he starts getting in to trouble, just cut him.

    8. english_knick

      I’m fine with Griffin. He’s experienced and well respected and he has West’s endorsement. Anyone with Lebron on the team and a shot a titles would make win-now trades and you’d expect them to do so. Remember a lot of people now think Ainge has messed up by NOT being willing enough to trade picks and push his team over the top.

      The question is when he’s here can he make the right deals for this team in this context?

    9. alsep73

      What I wonder is whether Mills has been telling Griffin or any other candidates about the Hardaway offer sheet, and if they said that would be okay with them if they were running the team.

    10. Totes McGoats

      I dunno..whoever ends up running the FO will hopefully stabilize it. Griffin is intriguing. I don’t think he lacks the ability and credentials to do well- Gilbert just allowed LeBron to usurp him. If Gilbert ends up being thw guy, I hope he keeps Gaines and Warkentien. Is John Gabriel still a part of the team? If so, he can stay too.

      As far as Melo is concerned, that rumored 3 team deal between us, Portland, and Houston is the best offer we are gonna get- even if it means taking Leonard back. That 1st rounder will be worth taking him back. I would ask for Harkless, Ariza, Leonard and a pick. To sweeten the pot, I’d even throw Kuz in there for an additional asset. Or how about not asking for a 1st and sending Melo to Houston, Kuz to Portland, and getting back McCollum, Ariza, and a 2nd with Anderson going to Portland & Vonleh landing in Houston? If we can peddle Lee to the Lakers, Clips, or Pels we would be looking at a perimeter trio of McCollum, TH2, and Ariza- what’s not to like about that? I would take that over tanking because it would give us a young core of KP-WILLY-MCCOLLUM-TH2 to build around.

    11. The Glass Half Rebuilt

      There is no reason to add CJ McCollum when we have TH2 who is essentially the same player.

    12. plenty

      From last thread:

      “And anyone who ignores these shadier aspects of his time here to fabricate some rationalization of his egoistic behavior as a form of self-delusion only excuses what are the rational, self-interested calculations of calculated primadonna.”

      No one is ignoring it like you seem to believe, it’s just not that big of a deal because Jeremy Lin was not the key to a Knicks championship. Lin was a flash in the pan and was revealed to be a flameout rather than the next great pg. You just come off as being overly bitter towards melo. I save my vitriol for Dolan, personally, but I guess we’ll have to agree to disagree wrt to melo being a master con artist.

    13. english_knick

      Not to mention Portland aren’t throwing CJ into a deal where their return is anderson. Unless they hired Jax and didn’t say?

    14. The Glass Half Rebuilt

      Look at the advanced numbers, the eFG%, and their per 36 stats. TH2 is like 80% of the player McCollum is, except he’s a year younger and making 70% of the money. McCollum is good, but he’s redundant on this team.

      http://bkref.com/tiny/Xsnyf

    15. Farfa

      I don’t think you guys gauged the real value of Melo on the market.

      Plus, Houston is never going to trade Ariza for Melo…

    16. danvt

      So funny that we can’t get Ariza for Melo (or tragic). Seems like a successful offseason for us would be to get all the guys we traded away. Too bad Gallinari is in LA. Really too bad. We need a hot tub time machine back to at least 2010. No Amari, No Melo.

      Did Wilson Chandler retire? Maybe he could be a good mentor to Dotson?

      Lin redux? He makes tons of money now so it’s perfect.

      Could we construct a roster of people we had that would make the playoffs?

      What if you included draft picks that were traded away?

    17. Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada

      I think the Carroll trade helps get them out of luxury territory as well and away from the hard cap which they’re kind of close to

    18. danvt

      By the way, I think Lin could have been an excellent starting pg for us all along. I feel like, with good coaching and a good system he could have kept improving. I know HOU was pretty good but playing next to Harden was not optimal for Lin. Seems like players need a good situation and then have a chance to realize their potential. Some organizations turn players around. Others turn them to shit.

      One of my big worries now is that Hardaway turns back into Knicks Hardaway. Of course, that’s on coach H who isn’t necessarily bad.

    19. Zanzibar

      If Griffin wants to replace Mills/Warkentien/Houston etc, I’m all for it but it’s not gonna happen. Even Phil couldn’t shed Mills and Dolan’s loyal to CAA Warkentien and Houston. If Griffin wants to replace our scouting infrastructure, I’m against it.

    20. Totes McGoats

      There is no reason to add CJ McCollum when we have TH2 who is essentially the same player.

      I’m thinking he can hamdle PG duties in Hornacek’s offense..triangle or otherwise. You don’t think so? I like McCollum alot, and I do think that with the role he plays in Portland, he and TH2 are similar. But my hope would be, if he were a Knick, that putting the ball in his hands would change things for him. In college he was more similar to Lilliard and I’m not sure he has had good opportunity to grow into a role as a pro PG. It would also relegate TH2 to the 3rd option on offense- which is good because I’m not sold on him being ready to handle being the 2nd option.

    21. Mike R

      Hopefully it’s mills who griffin is talking about wanting to get rid of. That would be great if Dolan let griffin fire mills Vince McMahon style.

    22. ClashFan

      Isn’t Mills going to be POBO with a new GM working under him? Griffin is interviewing for GM, not POBO, I thought.

    23. Mike R

      So mills would be griffins boss? Why would he ever want to come here then? Mills would still be making all the decisions. The guy has never been part of a successful season here. He needs to go

    24. Bruno Almeida

      McCollum had an 18% ast% with 27% usage… he’s not a passer, he’s a shooter.

      I guess he would be the best PG in the Knicks roster right now, and hes a decently efficient shooter, but he’s more Steve Francis than a real PG, and hes hella expensive.

    25. The Glass Half Rebuilt

      Mills will be the POBO and Griffin the GM. I’m not too opposed to it as long as the Knicks rely on the NBA draft.

      McCollum could probably pass as a PG but at his salary it’s not a move worth making. He’d have to be a top 20 player in the league to justify his salary. Portland isn’t moving him anyway so it’s a moot point I believe.

      I am really interested in seeing the Knicks play this year. We’re gonna be young and I think we’re done trading 1st round picks, so we’re getting it slowly but surely.

    26. ClashFan

      The Knicks do pay well, so there’s that for Griffin.

      I’d guess that Mills is telling Griffin that he gets to make all the decisions about drafting, trading, etc. as GM. But yeah, Mills will still be his boss, from what I’m reading.

    27. Zanzibar

      I’d imagine Griffin doesn’t want to report to Dolan’s lackey Mills nor should he. Griffin should have direct line to Dolan. Mills would serve no purpose other than being Dolan’s mole and do his dirty work. In the end, Griffin will take the money and the corrosive MSG infrastructure – nothing’s gonna change.

    28. Mike R

      Any scenario where mills is the top decision maker is a nightmare. On any other franchise or any other company for that matter regardless of the business this guy would have been fired years ago. He’s part of the losing problem.

    29. stratomatic

      Our problem is that Dolan is not competent enough to recognize basketball competence. So unless he makes a lucky hire, he is generally be surrounded by incompetents that are primarily interested in their own careers and paychecks and not the Knicks. It’s a cesspool very much like Washington DC where it becomes somewhere between difficult and impossible to make change because you are a threat to the interests already there.

      Over the last few days I’ve been one of the more optimistic voices on the THJ signing. However, even though I’m optimistic that he can improve further, it was clearly an incompetent signing. We WAY overpaid. Mills is another incompetent that couldn’t recognize value if it was handed to him.

      Phil made some basketball and interpersonal mistakes, but at least I had some hope that between excellent drafting, good cap space management, keeping picks, and keeping trade/FA errors to a minimum (they all make some) we were on a good path. Days into the new regime and I already have a sense of imminent doom. First we overpaied for THJ and next we are probably going to trade Melo and take on worse contracts than we are trying to get rid of, We’ll be mediocre, capped out for 3 years, and on a path to nowhere all while the cesspool enriches itself on Dolan’s idiocy.

    30. Ben R

      I live in Portland and see alot of Blazers basketball. CJ McCollum despite similar looking stats is nothing like THJ. They play completely different games. CJ is a PG but is playing SG because Portland has Lillard and CJ has to play off of him a lot. He is an exceptional ball handler and a great shooter. Mediocre defender though, better than Lillard but not great.

      But Portland would never trade him unless they were getting a bonefide star in return. Nothing we’re getting in the Houston trade would be close to enough. If we were able to trade with Cleveland for Love and threw in a sweetener then Portland might consider it.

    31. Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada

      Yeah it sounds as if Mills will go back to a traditional presidential role that worries about business/office management like he was under Phil, but with the added authority of being the ultimate boss. Griff will do most or all of the basketball decisions though, by all indications. Unless Dolan feels like getting involved, that is.

    32. Ntilakilla

      it’s just not that big of a deal because Jeremy Lin was not the key to a Knicks championship. Lin was a flash in the pan and was revealed to be a flameout rather than the next great pg.

      Not even the point, because its irrelevant if Lin was a “flameout” or a perennial All Star. Melo took one look at Jeremy Lin’s run and decided his tenure here had to come to an end because he didn’t genuflect and cater to Melo’s game. This is not a player who cares about winning at all costs like he claims. He didn’t want to share that spotlight. Its not unreasonable to call him on it.

      You just come off as being overly bitter towards melo. I save my vitriol for Dolan, personally, but I guess we’ll have to agree to disagree wrt to melo being a master con artist.

      Can’t I have animosity for both? Or is it that I have to point fingers at Dolan as yet another scapegoat for why Melo’s teams have chronically underachieved throughout his career. Its amazing how everyone who ever calls this guy out for his con is always dismissed by Melo’s apologists as bitter “haters” of somekind and not just telling the truth reflected in his past record. Out of the six NBA headcoaches he’s been associated with three – Karl, D’Antoni, and Phil – have basically said the same thing I’ve said about him. Tell me, are they bitter or just telling the truth about this guy?

    33. Ntilakilla

      By the way, I think Lin could have been an excellent starting pg for us all along.

      I think D’Antoni explained why it didn’t work out pretty well in retrospect.

      “The problem that we had was that for Jeremy to be really good, which he was, he had to play a certain way. It was hard for him to adapt…Amar’e, Melo, whatever, kinda had their way they had to play a certain way to be really, really good. So there was that inherent conflict of: What’s better for the team? What isn’t? Can they co-exist? Can they not? And again, they could co-exist if Melo went to the 4, which he really didn’t want to, and if Amar’e came to the backup [center], like the Tyson [Chandler], which he didn’t want to…So it’s now, ‘What are we gonna do?’ and so, we see how to go and I didn’t know how to get there with losing again and you try to prod them and ‘you gotta play harder’ and all the coaches-speak … and communications like deteriorated…And then you would see the faces of guys that went through Linsanity and they’re looking at you … they see what we can do, we’re not doing it, they get frustrated.”

      It was about two different styles of basketball moving forward, and one style won out.

    34. JK47

      Mills should be put into some sort of capsule, and that capsule should be launched into outer space. With Dolan and Mills at the top of the hierarchy we’re never going to achieve anything but lulz.

      It’s really a shame that Phil turned out to be an incompetent old coot, because that was our one chance at breaking the cycle of failure. But it’s game over now. We’re bad and heading to Nowheresville.

    35. stratomatic

      Melo has been an average at almost every facet of the game except scoring. Unfortunately, he never translated his talents and skills into above average efficiency because of his insistence on holding the ball, running down clock, and then putting himself in the position of having to take lower probably shots. A guy like Gallinari had WAY less talent and skill, but he’s been the more productive scorer by drawing fouls, shooting 3s, scoring in transition,. etc… and moving the ball when one of his core strengths was not available. Melo has been and always will be a low basketball IQ player of the type we should be trying to get away from (as Phil had been trying).

    36. Unreason

      Is there a publically available written description somewhere that defines Mills’ responsibilities after Griffin or whoever gets hired?

    37. Mike R

      Damn I thought we left the Lin conversation in yesterday’s thread. I’m still laughing out loud to “I literally hate you”. Don’t know why just thought that was funny.

    38. Totes McGoats

      Just a thought:

      If Dellavedova can survive at the 1, so too can Baker. Giannis helps as another ballhandler/playmaker, but I think Baker can survive until Ntilikina is ready- depending on the outcome of the Melo trade. Say we make the rumored trade with Houston and Portland, but take back Turner and Ariza plus an unprotected 2018 1st. Turner can play the 3 and help with ballhandling and playmaking. Definitely not ideal, I’m just saying that it could work if we don’t land a PG in free agency. I really don’t want Evan Turner as a Knick though. But if push comes to shove, that is a deal I would be ok with

    39. danvt

      Are people underestimating Ntilikina’s potential? I keep reading we have no one at the 1. If that’s true it’s a way bigger fuck up than Hardaway.

      Or are people saying he’s a triple A player at this point? Again, when we passed on Dennis Smith at draft night this wasn’t the chatter.

      This season is a referendum on this kid and everyone is taking the under.

    40. DS

      Griffin will have say for basketball operations. I think Mills will moved to non-basketball operations.

      Does anyone know to what extent Griffin utilizes statistics?

    41. Unreason

      Great things
      Phil Jackson’s smug incompetent meddlesome ass is finally gone
      Rose is gone

      Good things
      Draft might have gone well
      Young core with decent-good potential to be competitive in 3 years if developed and supported well
      Hornacek will have a free hand to do his job, especially if Melo leaves

      Worrisome things
      Probably overpaid THJ
      Melo not gone yet/ team commitment to rebuild vs winning unclear
      New GM’s scope of authority unclear

      Bad things
      Noah’s contract
      No PG

      What did I leave out or get wrong?

    42. danvt

      We were offered a shit ton for KP presumably and we didn’t take it. Wily made the all rookie team. Hardaway has some upside. Maybe Frank is a stud. Maybe we get pieces for Melo and Lee. I know it’s the Knicks but there’s a chance we could get a friendly roll for once.

      I don’t know if this is optimism or the denial stage of grief :-)

    43. danvt

      @44

      Not no pg. we picked one 8th in the draft.

      Also, three year window seems incorrect. We’ll know whether they’re good or bad a lot sooner.

      Basically I agree with your formulation though.

    44. stratomatic

      We were offered a shit ton for KP presumably and we didn’t take it. Wily made the all rookie team. Hardaway has some upside. Maybe Frank is a stud. Maybe we get pieces for Melo and Lee. I know it’s the Knicks but there’s a chance we could get a friendly roll for once.

      I don’t know if this is optimism or the denial stage of grief :-)

      Like I’ve been saying, for all his warts, Phil left us in really good shape going forward, but first move of the new administration was a bad one. We overpaid.

    45. DS

      Yes, we paid THJ vastly more than his market value. It’s indefensible.

      What really pisses me off is that people (mostly on social media, not here) say, “oh ,maybe THJ will elevate his performance up to the level of his contract someday.” Or “he’s 25 and just has best season.”

      Great, that still doesn’t mean you have to pay tens of millions over his market value right now.

    46. danvt

      More folks in the media are ripping us than rationalizing right now.

      The bad contract needs to be mitigated by cost saving measures or increased production. So we need to see what happens with Melo and other vets then we need to see how the kid fits in post triangle.

      This team may still be watchable this season. I hope so.

    47. stratomatic

      @DS

      I’ve been saying he may grow into the contract also, but not in terms of defending overpaying. To get a RFA you have to overpay a little. It was the extent of the overpay that was a problem. What I’ve also been trying to point out is that there is a clear difference between overpaying for Noah and THJ. We knew Noah was older, had an injury history, and was clearly in decline. THJ may be on the way up. So it’s not as bad.

    48. Unreason

      @46

      Not no pg. we picked one 8th in the draft.

      My “No PG” was shorthand for “no reasonable starting PG”. I assumed all agree that throwing Frank to the wolves on day 1 as an 18 year old is deeply unwise.

      The overall picture seems less catastrophic than the tone of the board suggests

    49. DS

      Stratomatic – Agree with everything you’re saying. And yes, I concede that you have to go a little bit over market rate to nab a RFA.

    50. thenoblefacehumper

      Melo has been and always will be a low basketball IQ player of the type we should be trying to get away from (as Phil had been trying).

      Phil signed the guy you wrote this whole post about to the biggest contract in the NBA at the time with a trade kicker and full no trade clause.

    51. DS

      This from 2015:

      “Under former general manager Chris Grant, the influence of analytics was muted, but his replacement, David Griffin, has championed statistical analysis during his days with the Phoenix Suns and now the Cavs. As Charles Barkley could tell you, it doesn’t take a stats wizard to value LeBron James, but Griffin’s acquisitions of Kevin Love, Timofey Mozgov, Iman Shumpert and J.R. Smith were solid moves by the numbers, as were the decisions to let go of recent lottery picks Dion Waiters and Anthony Bennett [cough, cough].

      Coach David Blatt has proved receptive to the far larger amount of statistical resources at his disposal in the NBA as compared to coaching in Europe.

      ‘I believe in [analytics] and their usefulness, and I understand the limitations of them as well,’ Griffin told the Cleveland blog Waiting for Next Year. ‘It’s something we believe very strongly in. Because ownership supports us to such a huge degree, we can invest in those processes.'”

      http://www.espn.com/espn/feature/story/_/id/12331388/the-great-analytics-rankings#nba-cle

    52. danvt

      Well he needs to be somewhat close or maybe picking him was unwise.

      That’s the deep concern for Knick fans right now and Hardaway is less so.

      That and a deal for Melo.

      If the kid is a stud and we get pieces or picks and cap relief for Melo, this could still be a great off season.

      If we go into the season with the roster we have now I’ll be on board with the folks wearing paper bags on their heads.

    53. thenoblefacehumper

      For the record, I think we’ll regret passing on Smith. I’d be fully comfortable handing him reins right now and think he’ll be the better player in the future. I very much hope I’m wrong, but I think it’s rare for a prospect like Smith to be available at 8 while flyers like Ntilikina are available all over the board. I agree with danvt that it’s not good to have a glaring whole at point guard after just drafting one at 8.

    54. Jack Bauer

      In light of the recent spending spree on contracts (Curry, Harden), particularly the amounts handed it out to lesser players (Waiters, Tony Snell) the amount of Melo’s contract suddenly seems almost reasonable. The Knicks just have to convince the Rockets, Cavs or some other sucker this is true.

    55. JK47

      Point guards take a while to develop, and there’s not really a full consensus that Ntilikina is a pure PG. The very obvious move was to acquire a stopgap PG who could give you 1500-1800 competent minutes of regular old vanilla NBA basketball. Instead we WAY overpaid for a shooting guard, when we already have a perfectly decent stopgap shooting guard. So I guess the idea is to just throw the 19-year old Frank out there for 2500 minutes and hope for the best, and back him up with Ron Baker, who is quite plainly not any type of NBA point guard.

      We got plenty of shooting guards doe! We got that shit on lockdown. It’s like having an MLB roster with 5 left fielders on it.

    56. DS

      For the record, I think we’ll regret passing on Smith. I’d be fully comfortable handing him reins right now and think he’ll be the better player in the future. I very much hope I’m wrong, but I think it’s rare for a prospect like Smith to be available at 8 while flyers like Ntilikina are available all over the board. I agree with danvt that it’s not good to have a glaring whole at point guard after just drafting one at 8.

      Smith can be very good. But projections say that, at best, he will have a style similar to Baron Davis or Steve Francis. Don’t get me wrong, that would be a wonderful upgrade over Ray Felton, Marbury, and Rose but I’m ok taking a chance on the guy who can be a great defender and team player instead.

    57. Z-man

      Rondo, THJ, KP, Willy, Melo, Kuz, Lance, Lee, Dotson, Baker, ‘kina, O’Q, maybe Noah

      I like.

    58. danvt

      I’m hopeful Ntilikina will be great. I think it doesn’t bode well if we *need* a place holder. Conversation around him reminds me of the one around KP. It’s like we’re pretending we have no one. You might say addressing the two guard situation is more urgent. Like who out of these five guys is the guy? Can one be the backup PG?

      I just hope someone is playing chess over there at MSG.

    59. Bruno Almeida

      Dennis Smith Jr. is 19 and I really don’t think he’s so ready to be a starter as people here believe him to be.

      the Lillard comparison is also really lazy imo… Lillard played 4 years in college, was 21 when he came to the NBA and he was an absolute superstar in terms of production there, much farther ahead than anything Smith Jr has shown in his one year.

      they played in very different conferences, I know, but I haven’t seen anything that would lead me to believe he’ll have the impact Lillard had instantly in the NBA.

      also, the Ntilikina pick wasn’t made for this year. I know everyone will freak out and overanalyze every misstep he takes, while praising any 20 point game Smith ever has as a rookie, but I think Ntilikina has a higher ceiling than Smith and thus was the better pick.

    60. JK47

      I just hope someone is playing chess over there at MSG.

      I’d settle for checkers. More likely they’re sitting in the corner eating paste.

    61. Boriqua3

      I’m about ready to have Carmelo Anthony traded and RRondo signed for a min. That should make the Knicks interesting.

    62. nicos

      For what it’s worth Steve Francis led the league in VORP in his second season but completely fell apart once injuries hit. Smith Jr. was arguably the best athlete in the draft and also has legitimate ball skills and court vision. I’m fine with Frank but the idea that his ceiling is higher than Smith’s is nuts to me- why? Because he has long arms? He projects to be a much better defensive player but he’s not an A+ athlete like Smith Jr. and he’s shown little offensively beyond good three point shooting in a very small sample size. Smith Jr. definitely carries with him the risk of being a ball-pounding Marbury 2.0 (not to mention injury concerns) but his ceiling is as high as just about anybody’s in the draft.

    63. Z-man

      The one thing that Phil’s team has done well is drafting players. I wanted DSJ too, but if phil’s team were not sold, I suppose I should give them the benefit of the doubt for now.

    64. Ntilakilla

      DSJ came to a meeting with Knicks executives and said he wanted to be a Derrick Rose type PG.

      Pass.

    65. Bruno Almeida

      the fact that Smith can jump high and dunk makes him an A+ athlete?

      as far as Im concerned he’s at most 6’3″ with not a lot of length, while Ntilikina is 6’5″ with almost 7 foot wingspan, in a league where length seems to be more key than closing speed or jumping ability.

      Rose, even at his diminished self last season could blow by defenders consistently, but he never had the upper body strength and length to properly finish over them, and we pretty much never saw him using his speed on D because or how little he cared / how lost he was.

      I think Dennis Smith Jr will be a good offensive player, but I dont believe he’ll ever be an efficient scorer or a plus defender, both things which are much more important in my opinion than being able to break ankles or soak usage.

    66. JK47

      The one thing that Phil’s team has done well is drafting players.

      More specifically, they did well at drafting international players. They hit on one at the top of the lottery and another one in the second round. That’s one reason I’m willing to give Ntilikina benefit of the doubt.

    67. alsep73

      Spears:

      Ex-Cavs GM David Griffin has pulled his name out of the Knicks’ GM and president search after he couldn’t come to agreement on the right role with the franchise, a source told The Undefeated.

      Translation: after he couldn’t get Steve Mills to agree to leave him alone, or even admit that Hardaway was a massive overpay.

    68. BigBlueAL

      I was just about to post that tweet, pretty obvious only person who will be hired as GM will be a Mills lackey.

    69. the don nelson era

      I’m looking forward to the Mills/Houston regime. Should be good.

      And about the stated Mills vision for the team of youth, length, and athleticism… it sounds familiar, doesn’t it? Mills seems to minimally share a philosophy with Isiah. I don’t think Isiah is calling shots but then again, he’s in the building every day, ya know? Would anyone who saw the HBO interview with Dolan/Isiah be surprised if there wasn’t an informal consultant type of role there?

    70. alsep73

      Begley:

      Sources told ESPN’s Adrian Wojnarowski that Griffin and the Knicks were at odds over Griffin not having full authority on basketball decisions and Griffin preferring to bring in his own staff.

      yup, that’s our Knicks.

    71. JK47

      Is there one single person here who thinks this team is going to be anything other than an irredeemable clusterfuck under the leadership of Steve Mills? Anybody on Team Optimist feeling good about this?

    72. Ntilakilla

      Good, Griffin was a bad choice. We need continuity right now. Mills just has to shut up, not make anymore signings, let Hornacek coach and have Gaines handle the drafts.

    73. Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada

      We don’t need continuity lmao we need Dolans right hand man not running the whole organization

      Say what you will about Griff but he built a championship team and spent 17 years in Phoenix when they were actually good.

    74. Donnie Walsh

      Good, Griffin was a bad choice.

      I think it’s easy to find the faults of any candidate. Griffin has his blemishes, like everyone will. But the reasons that he isn’t getting the job make him, sadly, the perfect person for the job.

    75. nicos

      the fact that Smith can jump high and dunk makes him an A+ athlete?

      Combined with a great first step and enough strength to play through contact, yes. I’ll take a great first step over length in a point guard all day long (at least on the offensive end). Look, I understand passing on Smith- beyond the injury concerns there are defensive effort issues plus the threat of a guy who’s just going to pound the ball and hijack your offense to put up empty stats- but if he figures those things out you’re talking about an perennial all-NBA type talent. I don’t see Frank as having that high a ceiling unless he makes a real physical leap in terms of explosiveness- possible given his age but most guys who have that great first step already have it by 18.

    76. Ntilakilla

      LOL. Lebron James “built” that championship team.

      So long as Mills continues to promote the build from within of our young players and the trading of Melo, I am fine with him being on board.

    77. Totes McGoats

      What is up with the Knicks and wanting to force people on new hires’ staffs? Granted, I do want Warkentien, Gaines, and Gabriel to stay- but how can you expect your coach or GM to make your team better if you won’t let them do what has made them successful? Griffin may not be the best FO exec, but is Dolan REALLY that f’n stupid to not acknowledge that the team hasn’t been successful doing things his way? When you hire basketball people, you gotta get out of the way and let them do what they do. So what’s next, offer the gig to another novice in Billups and surround him with the same shit scented quicksand that every one else had to work in? I guarantee if Dolan had said, “OK. We’ll hire you, but Warkentien, Gaines, and Gabriel have great work for us- keep them and the job is yours.”, Griffin would have accepted. What value does the rest of the guys in the FO have to us? They’ve been laughably unsuccessful! Why would you want to hold on to unsuccessful habits? Is nostalgia worth that much? Or is the organization only looking at the dollar signs on the bottom line and not realize that there is an actual basketball team to run? Take Chicago for instance. No one gave a flying fuck about the Bulls until they put a successful team in place, and now free agents will ALWAYS consider Chicago as a landing spot.

      Every team owner in the league makes money, but the successful teams increase that money exponentially when they give the people good product. Maybe fans really should boycott Knicks games until the owner can give them a competent franchise to root for. As a pure BASKETBALL fan, I just don’t understand why our Knicks get so much patronage from the fans.

      The last Knicks jersey I owned was a white Sprewell jersey..I even bought the white and orange And 1’s and a white Knicks wristband to wear on my forearm whenever I wore the jersey. No, it’s not alot, but the point is the franchise was making me happy as a fan- so I wanted to wear team gear.

    78. Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada

      Lebron made two major decisions: the TT extension and the Love trade, but Griff was still the one who had to negotiate. All the other moves were engineered by Griff–the fleecing of Phil in the JR Shump Trade, the signing of RJ, moving on from Waiters and Bennett–and those moves were good. Obviously he has some stinkers but he made the trades needed to get his team to a championship. And while his drafting record isn’t great it seems to me that scouting is the most important resource GMs use to decide on draft picks, so if he used our scouts and listened to Gaines–which is what GMs do–he’d be fine.

      He’s far more qualified than Steve Mills, who’s never had a winning season working with the Knicks and just signed Hardaway to a ridiculous overpay while also being vulnerable to Dolans meddling in his position as right hand man/head slimeball.

    79. Zanzibar

      Sources told ESPN’s Adrian Wojnarowski that Griffin and the Knicks were at odds over Griffin not having full authority on basketball decisions and Griffin preferring to bring in his own staff.

      Wow now I really want Griffin. How many execs would have the integrity to walk away from the Dangling Dolan Dollars? Not Warkentien. Not Mills. Not Walsh. Not GG.

      It’s really a shame that Phil turned out to be an incompetent old coot, because that was our one chance at breaking the cycle of failure. But it’s game over now. We’re bad and heading to Nowheresville.

      +1000 This result is ultimately more important than the putrid residue of Melo’s NTC, Noah signing, Rose trade, etc. I’d imagine Dolan’s thought process has evolved as follows over the years:

      I’m smart, I’m able to handle this myself.
      I’m smart, but I need a better GM than Isiah to work with me.
      I’m dumb and need to follow the Rangers’ model and hire Phil.
      I’m dumb but not that much dumber than Phil and all the other faux GM types.

    80. Bruno Almeida

      @89

      we can agree to disagree then, I don’t think having a great first step is that necessary, plenty of star guards have done pretty well for themselves without it, and having it is no indication of actually knowing what to do with it (see Rose).

      of course Ntilikina might bust, its pretty much a real possibility for 99% if the draftees. Id rather take my chances on the highest of highs with the lowest of lows as a possibility.

    81. Ntilakilla

      All the other moves were engineered by Griff–the fleecing of Phil in the JR Shump Trade, the signing of RJ, moving on from Waiters and Bennett

      This is the best you can say for Griffin? Shump and JR are terrible. As Cavs, they respectively have a WS/48 of .057 and .096 – both below average players. The Waiters and Bennett picks were horrendous, if he made them as Knicks GM he’d have been skewered for ages.

      The only reason his team won a championship is because Lebron decided to return home. When he leaves that team will fall apart. Griffin is overrated.

    82. JK47

      I’m sure all of the top GM candidates are going to be falling over themselves rushing to take this shitty job where they get to be micromanaged by a fuckwit in a fedora and his clueless lickspittle.

    83. Ntilakilla

      Hate on the job Phil did, I mean, he certainly made some ugly ass mistakes. But he left this team in a better position than he inherited it by far. The fact that Griffin wanted to come here only speaks volumes about the young core Phil assembled to build around.

    84. Zanzibar

      Also, finding Kuz, who I like

      Kuz stinks and he’s almost 28yo. First Ron, now Mindy? Z-man I think you may have an Opie Taylor type fetish. You appear to have an irrational attraction to guys who look like they walked right out of the cornfields onto the hardwood.

    85. JK47

      Griffin didn’t draft Waiters or Bennett. Let’s at least try to get facts straight.

      I’m not saying he would have been a good GM. I mean, who knows. But Griffin was not acting GM when those two scrubs were drafted.

    86. Donnie Walsh

      The fact that Griffin wanted to come here only speaks volumes about the young core Phil assembled to build around.

      Ummm. Griffin is unemployed. There is only one job available in his entire field. I wouldn’t say that him taking a meeting with the NYK speaks volumes about the amazing young core here.

      What speaks loudly is that he’s walking away.

    87. ptmilo

      all seems fine. we have no use for demanding control freaks like griffin. all we need is an elite NBA mind who doesn’t whine about wanting autonomy over every little thing like making basketball decisions and hiring staff. there are plenty of brand names who would be grateful for the opportunity to get a few million for a dozen or so hours of work a year to stamp his name on some trades/signings, sit next to Clarence at games looking studiously sleepy, and flail his arms wildly on social media every time the media starts to blame Dolan for something. I wonder if the old Iraqi information minister signed a noncompete.

    88. Ntilakilla

      @100

      But Griffin was not acting GM when those two scrubs were drafted.

      Griffin was part of the front office that drafted those two bums.

    89. Ntilakilla

      Ummm. Griffin is unemployed. There is only one job available in his entire field. I wouldn’t say that him taking a meeting with the NYK speaks volumes about the amazing young core here.

      If he was as desperate for work as you say, he’d have shut up and taken Dolan’s money like many before him. He obviously didn’t because he wanted the chance to succeed with his own people in charge, meaning he was serious about winning here. If that’s the case he came because he knew Phil left in place good young pieces to build around.

    90. JK47

      @103

      You’re starting to become kind of insufferable. He wasn’t GM when those picks were made. Try saying “you’re right, my bad” then moving on. You don’t have to die on every little stupid hill.

    91. Ntilakilla

      @105

      You’re right, my bad, he wasn’t the GM only VP of basketball operations.

      PS – But he was a part of that front office.

    92. JK47

      That’s right. The superiors above him made the ultimate decision.

      Glad we got that sorted out.

    93. stratomatic

      The issue is not so much that we didn’t get Griffin. The issue is that MSG is such a cesspool of entrenched incompetent swamp creatures he turned down what was surely a huge salary to take over the job.

      Dolan is a moron.

      He’s surrounded by idiots that know less about evaluating basketball players correctly than a lot of the people on this forum. But there’s no way to get rid of them. That’s why no one stays long and why anyone that tries to shake things up is driven out of town.

      It’s a damn shame. I almost feel bad for KP, WH, and FN. It would be so much better for their careers if they got out of NY asap. I’m 58 years old. I’ve been a fan since I was a boy and most Knicks games were only on radio. I listened with my father. I bleed blue and orange. I’m so sick of this incompetence I’m almost ready to throw in the towel and root for Brooklyn.

    94. Donnie Walsh

      . I wonder if the old Iraqi information minister signed a noncompete.

      Haha. Yeah, Comical Ali would be perfect for the job.

      What about Sean Spicer for GM?

    95. Ntilakilla

      @107

      Yes, we sorted it out. So long as you admit he was involved in the decision as VP of basketball operations.

    96. Mike Honcho

      Yes, we sorted it out. So long as you admit he was involved in the decision as VP of basketball operations.

      Good Lord you are getting insufferable.

    97. yellowboy90

      I’m really like the pace Smith Jr had played with so far. He is not just a one speed attack guy like Wall or Rose but he changed tempo and pushed the ball up court with the pass. His overall passing has been great too and he is actively boxing out on defense to get boards.

      This year is the perfect year to have played in Vegas because of how well this draft seems to be.

    98. Zanzibar

      I’m so sick of this incompetence I’m almost ready to throw in the towel and root for Brooklyn.

      There were two things which could have broken the vicious cycle:
      (1) Phil had turned out to be a very competent GM/POBO.
      (2) Nets were a very good team and the competition put pressure on Dolan to change.

      The only thing on the short-term horizon which might effect real change is if KP or someone else becomes a franchise player and tells Dolan he’s leaving unless he brings in a Sean Marks type and gives him complete autonomy.

    99. Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada

      People in organizations disagree about things all the time–there’s no good evidence that Griffin had any part of picking Waiters and Bennett. This is all guilt by association. And again, even if he were involved in making the final decision, GMs and POBOs ultimately listen to their scouts–and we have good ones here.

      What we do have evidence for is that Lebron said “build me a winning team” and Griffin built that winning team.

    100. english_knick

      What I don’t get here is who is running this thing? Mills is the acting POBO – and the stories suggest he wants, but doesn’t have, the full-time gig.

      Yet Mills is running a recruitment that might be for the POBO role and might be for a GM working to… Mills. How does that work? Every decent candidate will want the bigger role, and mills will tell them all they’ll be reporting to him. They need to let someone who is not conflicted – like Leiweke – run the process. No other company, sports or any other field, would allow the acting CEO to run a recruitment for which they saw themselves as a part of the field…

    101. DS

      BTW – The best thing that anyone ever did for the Cavs was LeBron leaving and coming back. It helped net them Kyrie, TT, and Wiggins who was flipped for Love.

    102. Bruno Almeida

      @115

      only the Knicks… just when I was getting a little optimistic for the first time in like 6 years, they come back and remind us that Knicks.

    103. ptmilo

      What I don’t get here is who is running this thing?

      Hint: when the music is so bad your ears hurt, don’t blame the straight shots.

    104. english_knick

      @118 – yep, agreed in the end JD is in charge. But I mean how can it be possible he is allowing Mills to run the search in practice?

      I mean, obviously, Knicks. So I shouldn’t be surprised. But can it really be that hard to say – you know what, Steve – if you really want this thing I might need to turn the recruitment process over to someone a bit less conflicted?

      Ah what the hell am I saying. Dolan. Knicks. Any sentence starting ‘can it really be that hard…’ is already redundant…

    105. ClashFan

      So, the Knicks have whiffed on their first two choices to take over supposedly running the team. Who’s third? Fourth? Fifth?

    106. Ntilakilla

      What we do have evidence for is that Lebron said “build me a winning team” and Griffin built that winning team.

      Wait a minute here. Lebron + Irving + Thompson = a winning team. And that was already in place by the time Griffin even began to fill in the pieces. The big move he made was taking a #1 pick, wrapping him up with a bum like Bennett and trading him for an All Star player in Love. But Love was also going to leave Minnesota anyway and Griffin had a great asset to trade with.

      According to people on this board, Griffin shouldn’t be held accountable for transactions that occurred before his tenure as GM. So he gets no credit for Irving or Thompson. Now look at this Cavs sans the players who were already chosen before Griffin came along as GM. Is that a winning support group or is it a bunch of journeymen who would be playing in Europe and/or retired without the core Griffin inherited from his predecessor?

    107. JK47

      This is like GWB hiring Cheney to lead his search for VP.

      “I found you a great candidate! Me!”

    108. Ntilakilla

      BTW, I am not saying Griffin is a bad GM or even denying he knows what he’s doing. But I do believe he’s being overrated based on his tenure with the Cavaliers.

    109. The Glass Half Rebuilt

      Part of me never wanted a POBO/GM who rolled over at the wishes of his superstar. We’ve seen that story too often with ownership already.

    110. JK47

      I think being a GM is pretty easy if you’re starting off with LeBron James in the fold. So I agree, I’m agnostic about Griffin. I honestly don’t know how I should rate him as an executive.

      It doesn’t matter anyway. Nobody good is going to come here, because the Knicks just telegraphed the fact that it’s a shitty job and that anyone who takes it will be undermined by a bunch of halfwits.

      Just call Mills the GM and Dolan the POBO and be done with it. That’s what it was always going to be anyway.

    111. stratomatic

      What I don’t get here is who is running this thing?

      Do you need names or will a generic “idiots” suffice?

    112. Ntilakilla

      Part of me never wanted a POBO/GM who rolled over at the wishes of his superstar. We’ve seen that story too often with ownership already.

      Agree. I especially don’t want a POBO/GM whose record of success is reliant upon that superstar’s performance if he didn’t draft him.

    113. Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada

      @123

      Ok that’s reasonable then–it sounded from your tone initially that you thought he was *bad*. I agree that he may be overrated though I like him more than you do, clearly. I’m not necessarily upset that he’s not going to be our GM, it’s just indicative of how bungled the GM process is that somehow having control over basketball decisions is a sticking point

    114. DS

      Dennis Smith Jr. today: 25 points on 8-14, 3-5 on 3’s; 8 rebounds; 4 steals; 4 assists; 5 turnovers… but Anthony Randolph once scored 42.

    115. er

      Sean Keane
      Twitter › seankeane
      Dennis Smith went out of his way to go after Josh Jackson every play. He must recite the names of guys drafted ahead of him like Arya Stark

      LOL
      Twitter is great.

    116. er

      Is there a reason why the Knicks are only 1 of 6 teams not in Vegas?

      Seems like a great thing for the young kids

    117. Frank

      This whole mess is exactly why Masai was and is the best guy for the job even if it costs us a lottery protected pick. Dolan has to have respect and admiration for the guy in order to let that guy run things the way he wants to. Anyone else will just be absorbed into the morass that is the Knicks front office structure.

    118. TheOakmanCometh

      The jury is still out on Griffin. But he at least has experience running a successful team and knows what winning basketball looks like. And he would have cleaned out the sychophants and cronies that have managed to survive multiple disastrous regimes at MSG. I’d have been fine with him as GM.

      There’s no genius waiting to take this awful job. “Pretty good” is as good as we’re gonna get.

    119. The Glass Half Rebuilt

      I don’t know how good the Cavaliers are without LeBron. They really struggled without him pretty much all season.

    120. KnickfaninNJ

      My personal favorite for POBO would be Presti. But, even if he were available, he’d probably want the same things Griffin wanted. If it has to be a GM reporting to Mills, I say get Hinkie. He’d probably take the job, and actually Mills is probably good at the things Hinkie is not, so they might make a good team.

    121. KnickfaninNJ

      That’s true, but at MSG, he wouldnt have to worry about money as much as he does in OKC

    122. JK47

      We’re not getting Presti, we’re not getting Hinkie, we’re going to probably end up with some former player who is “famous” and who will basically be the public fall guy for the real GM, Steve Mills.

      We’re fucked. This is not a good time to be a Knicks fan.

    123. Bruno Almeida

      er, that was one of the most depressing articles I’ve read in a while.

      so now we have a completely incompetent dude (who by the way once was part of the shit show that was the Knicks trying to discredit Anucha Browne Sanders to save Isiah) making a “power play” to become president…

      I can’t.

    124. KnickfaninNJ

      It’s rarely a good time to be a Knicks fan, its in the nature of the Knicks. We’re fans anyway.

    125. Kevin Udwary

      I’d be surprised if anyone with a name, even someone with no GM experience, would take this job under the stipulation they wouldn’t be able to choose their own staff. It’s probably going to be Houston as GM, or some other crony that has been in or around the organization for years. Maybe we all should just agree on another team to talk about here.

    126. The Glass Half Rebuilt

      The only chance we get a good GM to agree to terms would be to get a guy who is in his first GM job and he would have the stipulations to earn trust and build his own staff over time. I’m still holding out hope for Mike Zarren.

    127. JK47

      They just told Griffin he wouldn’t have control over all basketball decisions.

      In light of that, it doesn’t matter who the GM is. Whoever it is won’t have autonomy. We’re getting the Steve Mills Clown Show until that becomes untenable, and then Dolan will do some more starfucking and hire Charles Barkley or Bobby Knight or something.

      Prepare for the worst. Prepare to watch Porzingis become a star for somebody else, prepare to see first round picks traded for Emmanuel Mudiay, prepare for Melo to get another max contract. Imagine the stupidest fucking things you can imagine, then prepare for something worse than that, because that’s what’s coming.

    128. Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada

      If we’re doing a book club we might have to start with my good friend Karl’s book on Kapital if we ever want to get rid of this Dolan fellow

    129. The Glass Half Rebuilt

      I dunno, man. The current braintrust (sans Mills) is the team that was around when we won 54 games. Grunwald is gone, but we have Gabriel, Warkentein, and Gaines Jr on hand.

      The only evidence of what GM Mills will be so far is that he went and grabbed Hardaway Jr on an overpay. I know a lot of you hate that deal, but I think Hardaway Jr fits with the rest of the Knicks’ young corps. In the half season he ran the Knicks, he didn’t do anything substantial except get overruled on a Kyle Lowry deal. It’s easy to assume Mills is an idiot because he’s been with the Knicks so long, but let’s let the man make another mistake before we bash him into oblivion. I also think we should give Leiweke some time to vet some guys and recommend Dolan allow “his guy” to have full control over the team. We’ll see what happens.

    130. Jack Bauer

      @151 “Imagine the stupidest fucking things you can imagine, then prepare for something worse than that, because that’s what’s coming”

      This is a well thought out prediction. Awesome, sign me up for another 20 years of dysfunctional losing. You can’t make up the shit that goes on with this team. Just by accident or luck you’d think it would come together again after 44 years, but noooo we get more of this clownshow.

      Regarding DSJ vs. Frank, its very hard to say without actually watching Frank play a game against NBA prospects. Oh yeah, he’s not fucking playing summer league. We won’t know anything until preseason starts.

    131. JK47

      Just by accident or luck you’d think it would come together again after 44 years, but noooo we get more of this clownshow.

      It actually DID come together by accident one season– 2012-2013, when the Knicks accidentally discovered a small-ball two-PG, four-out lineup that was really efficient. Then Roy Hibbert happened, and “The East Is Big, Man” and Bargs and “Blame Beno” and that was that.

      Gonna be a while before the blind squirrel finds the nut again.

    132. wetbandit

      Maybe we all should just agree on another team to talk about here.

      Can we do this? Like an unofficial team to follow? Maybe the Bucks?

      This team is just too hard sometimes

    133. DS

      Can we do this? Like an unofficial team to follow? Maybe the Bucks?

      The Thunder have been my side piece for years now. I recommend you do it.

    134. Boriqua3

      It’s been more satisfying reading these posts than ESPNing the Knicks…
      The crappy part is that Knickerblogger is actually an awesome fan site. When there’s of whiff of productivity, suggestions for building, come flying out of the woodwork. If only Mills read this blog. Or whoever the heck is in charge of the Knicks at this time.

    135. Bruno Almeida

      @161

      yeah, Ive had the Bucks and Jazz as side teams to watch on league pass and I recommend both, intriguing young team + watching Giannis become great, and a very good defensive / fundamental team that won’t ever truly win anything… besides the Warriors every now and then because something ridiculous is always about to happen.

    136. danvt

      It’s so easy to be a good owner. That’s the silver lining here. Steinbrenner was just like JD but after getting literally banned for paying a professional gambler to discredit Dave Winfield he found religion in the form of Stick Michael who refused to trade Bernie and the other of the core 5 and the rest is history. He never became not a control freak and he still made some mistakes but he did learn to put good people in control and get out of the fucking way.

      Dolan is so stupid he needs his meat cut for him but his job takes very little brain power. It’s too bad about Phil because JD actually did get out of the way and Phil didn’t make it pay off. Now we may have further to fall before it gets better. But there is the chance that in our future this FO gets their shit together.

      Maybe even this summer. Let’s see what happens with Melo. I won’t be surprised to see more stupidity and the Hardaway contract makes me edgy but nothing’s been irredeemably fucked up as of yet.

    137. DRed

      If the last few GMs had done nothing but read this blog and do what I suggested this team would be in great shape

    138. JK47

      As dumb as the Kings have been in recent years, they have the following roster now:
      PG George Hill, DeAaron Fox, Ty Lawson, Frank Mason III
      SG Buddy Hield, Malachi Richardson, Vince Carter, Garrett Temple
      SF Justin Jackson
      PF Zach Randolph, Harry Giles, Skal Labissiere
      C Willie Cauley-Stein, Kosta Koufos, Georgios Papagiannis

      That’s exactly the kind of team I would love to have here. The veteran contracts aren’t terrible, and they have a mix of intriguing young players at a variety of positions. They’re not going to be real good anytime soon, but they at least have hope. And they’re run by Vlade fucking Divac. This isn’t rocket science. When you’re bad, you collect assets. You hope some of them turn into stars, and you can control them for a long time.

      This shit is not as hard as the Knicks make it look.

    139. Boriqua3

      Here’s a question, when Carmelo gets shipped to the Rockets, how many will become west coast fanatics (Syracuse alumni a given)?

    140. dtrickey

      If the Knicks really want Griffin, there is a compromise in my mind. Like most workplaces, new management would assess any remnants of the old regime and make a call as to whether to keep them around. Phil did the same thing with Woodson to a degree. Why not take the job, assess the current crew over summer, then make changes if you still feel you need your people. I feel whilst a total overhaul is probably needed, there is the potential you are getting rid of some solid operators just for the sake of having “your guys” run the show.

    141. Bruno Almeida

      @168

      yeah, the fact that Divac of all people managed to bring so much potential talent to this team is mind blowing

      they might all be busts or whatever, its Sacramento after all, but I can’t help but be very intrigued by Fox / Giles / Labissiere / Hield, even Jackson and Mason have some nice upside.

    142. Reyalblue

      I agree with that sentiment dtrickey, especially when it comes to the Knicks’ scouts as many people on this blog have mentioned. I think Griffin probably pressed the issue now to make sure his desire for complete autonomy down the line was clear. If the Knicks are at such a dysfunctional state and clearly at a low point in the franchise’s history and yet they still don’t want to loosen the reins, what will happen when things are not so dire? Would Mills and Houston’s influence with Dolan reappear to undermine what Griffin might have done to that point? Clearly it didn’t take Mills long to leave his imprint on the Knicks’ cap space.

    143. Z-man

      If I’m the owner of the team, no one makes a trade unless I approve. My guess is that this would be the case for nearly every poster here. Last thing I wast is a guy who doesn’t get that. Your job as GM is to convince me that your ideas are good ones. Dolan just has bad judgment, but that has nothing to do with the Gm-owner relationship. So no one’s wrong here. It’s a negotiation.

    144. Reyalblue

      Maybe the Knicks should look at Justin Zanick, who was assistant GM for the Bucks during this recent renaissance and was passed over for the GM job because of politics between the three owners. He was highly regarded and was all but assumed to be the next GM once Hammond stepped down. He’d be eager to apply what he learned during his time with the Bucks at a big market like New York where he only has to convince one owner, not three, and spending isn’t nearly as big of an obstacle. He probably would love to shine in New York, where his ex-employers actually live.

    145. Donnie Walsh

      So how about them Libs! Tina Charles looks like the real deal. Dropped 29 and 8 on the Mercury today.

      So what if we lost 81-69. It’s the process that matters. Coach Laimbeer and his assistant, Herb Williams, have the kids playing team ball.

      The future is bright here at Libertyblogger.net!

    146. dtrickey

      I wouldn’t be adverse to going for a 1st time GM from a good “pedigree”. Not sure that’s what we need in NY right at this moment, but it would be good to see as opposed to a brand name GM just for the sake of making a statement.

    147. Brian Cronin

      The rule that says that any team that acquires a player in a sign and trade will be automatically hard capped is a weird rule.

    148. JK47

      There’s no way around it, this is a dark day in Knicks history. This is a bogus search for a GM. Steve Mills has basically asserted himself as the decision maker on basketball personnel decisions. He is completely unqualified to do the job. His only qualification is that he is extremely skilled at licking James Dolan’s ass.

      We’ve hired a new POBO. His name is Steve Mills. God help us. We’re doomed.

    149. Brian Cronin

      I wouldn’t go that far (in that I think Mills has some real basketball operations experience outside of just managing the Garden), but yes, I do agree that it looks like whoever gets hired will be working under Mills, which is not a good thing. I don’t actively dislike Mills as an executive, but it is also clear that while he does have some experience, his main talent lies in Dolan being comfortable with him.

    150. Brian Cronin

      Also, while this doesn’t apply to just the Knicks, of course (but rather a lot of corporations), Mills strikes me as a great example of how being loyal to a corporation leads people to take some rather dishonorable positions. Mills wasn’t just co-workers with Anucha Browne-Saunders, they were friends and when she came to him with her harassment issues, Mills threatened her to keep quiet (while he did at least give a half-hearted attempt at fixing the issue quietly without drawing any attention to the matter). I don’t believe I’ll ever quite be able to forget that about Mills. Everyone who has known Mills over the years speak highly of him. In fact, one thing that comes up a lot is how much people think of his character. And yet when his friend was having trouble, he was more loyal to the corporation than to his friend, even while doing so also meant taking a dishonorable position. There’s no wonder why Dolan likes him so much.

    151. english_knick

      @173. No one is expecting the owner not to sign off trades (tho we can but hope)

      The issue is that they’re asking Griffin (or whoever) to work under a self-appointed POBO who appears pretty ill-qualified, and to employ a team of cronies who have been there the entire time the knicks have been bad. That’s not a reasonable negotiating position.

      Most decent execs will say they don’t mind being held accountable if they are given the tools and the leverage to succeed or fail on their own terms. Hiring someone into this deal is about finding a big name we can waive at the press and hold accountable when we still suck, while giving a lot of the control over actual decisions to others.

      It’s like the whole front office looked at how Dolan used Phil as a deflector shield for blame and said ‘hey – that works pretty well. We should get us one of those and the we can stick around drawing salaries from this place for the rest of time’!

      It’s bullshit, not a negotiation.

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