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Friday, November 24, 2017

Knicks Morning News (2017.07.05)

  • [NYDN] Knicks targeting former Syracuse standout Dion Waiters
    (Tuesday, July 04, 2017 10:12:37 PM)

    The latest reported Knicks target is a former Syracuse stud dogged by underachieving in the NBA but also coming off a career year in Miami.

  • [NY Newsday] Knicks rookie Frank Ntilikina ready for work of training camp
    (Tuesday, July 04, 2017 9:57:00 PM)

    Frank Ntilikina hasn’t been able to show anyone, particularly his coach Jeff Hornacek, what he can do on a basketball court.

  • [NYTimes] Gordon Hayward Says He Will Join the Boston Celtics
    (Wednesday, July 05, 2017 12:09:41 AM)

    Hayward, one of the top free agents in the N.B.A. this summer, announced his decision on Tuesday after considering Miami, Boston and Utah.

  • [SNY Knicks] Report: Knicks interested in Dion Waiters
    (Tuesday, July 04, 2017 10:51:30 PM)

    The Knicks are interested in free agent shooting guard Dion Waiters, according to the New York Post.

  • [SNY Knicks] Report: George Hill headed to Kings
    (Tuesday, July 04, 2017 2:20:30 PM)

    Free agent guard George Hill has agreed to a three-year, $57 million deal with the Sacramento Kings, according to Shams Charnia of The Vertical.

  • [NYPost] Knicks could tank to land this likely No. 1 pick in ’18 NBA Draft
    (Tuesday, July 04, 2017 8:15:28 PM)

    ORLANDO, Fla. — “Plummet for Porter.’’ That could turn into the unofficial motto for the 2017-18 Knicks sooner than later. If you haven’t heard of him yet, that’s Missouri 6-foot-10 freshman combo forward Michael Porter Jr., expected to be the top pick in the 2018 NBA Draft. “He’s a game-changer,’’ one NBA executive told The…

  • [NYPost] Knicks making another run to land Dion Waiters
    (Tuesday, July 04, 2017 6:24:36 PM)

    ORLANDO, Fla. — When Steve Mills was Knicks president for a five-month stint during the 2013-14 season, he made a bid to trade for Syracuse product Dion Waiters, who then was with the Cavaliers. Nothing materialized, as Waiters struggled through a troubling season. Last summer, the Knicks again made a lukewarm bid for Waiters when…

  • [NYPost] How Gordon Hayward-to-Celtics move stunts Carmelo market
    (Tuesday, July 04, 2017 5:29:12 PM)

    ORLANDO, Fla. — With forward Gordon Hayward announcing Tuesday he is going green with the Celtics, the move is bad news for the Knicks in their attempt to find Carmelo Anthony a new home. Hayward announced his decision on the Players’ Tribune after ESPN’s Chris Haynes first broke the news, then his agent denied it,…

  • [NYPost] How Knicks’ throwback made telling Hornacek impression
    (Tuesday, July 04, 2017 10:03:19 AM)

    ORLANDO, Fla. — It’s the only time Knicks coach Jeff Hornacek has laughed during the Orlando summer league. Canyon Barry stepped to the free-throw line Sunday and swished his underhanded attempt. has a great basketball IQ and good eye for the game,’’ Canyon Barry told The Post. “If I’m making my free throws, whether I’m…

  • 282 comments on “Knicks Morning News (2017.07.05)

    1. Ntilakilla

      Never heard of Michael Porter Jr. but if there’s someone we should tank for its Doncic.

    2. Frank

      I’m pretty impressed (so far) by the restraint shown by this front office. I am not a Dion Waiters fan at all, but I guess there could be worse signings as long as we don’t blow all our space on him and don’t give him a 4 year deal. His scoring efficiency is still not great but 5.2 assists per 36 (2:1 A:TO ratio) is nothing to sneeze at from the SG position, and by all reports he actually was quite good defensively last year. He’s only 25 and maybe the light is turning on?

      Overall I think I’d rather sign Shelvin Mack to a 1 year contract, sit on our cap space, and hope we can get either Doncic or Michael Porter Jr.. But I wouldn’t be crushed by Waiters signing.

      This FA market has been really interesting in terms of the league-wide sanity that has been shown after last year’s complete craziness.

    3. Brian Cronin

      Never heard of Michael Porter Jr. but if there’s someone we should tank for its Doncic.

      Porter seems like a special player. The real special guy is Bagley, but he is not out until 2019.

    4. Brian Cronin

      Waiters improved a lot and was still bad last year. I guess he could improve some more and become actively good, but seems unlikely. But oh man, he will be so popular here because that dude knows how to get pointz.

    5. lavor postell

      Waiters on a 2 year deal seems fine in a tank/rebuild. Assuming we move on from Rose and Melo we need somebody to take on usage and Waiters can create for others at a good amount for his position. He’s also able to play down at the 3 when necessary, something our other wings on the roster aren’t big enough to handle. If the light turns on all the way he can actually be a piece for the long term and if not then he helps you lose games the next coupl of years while your young guys grow and develop into assuming larger roles.

    6. yellowboy90

      Isaac Bongs is another euro guy to keep an eye on. He has some issues but he is really young, almost as young as Ntilikina at this time last year. He is a 6’9 200lbs with just under a 7’0 wingspan point forward.

    7. Brian Cronin

      Waiters on a 2 year deal seems fine in a tank/rebuild.

      The guy I don’t get it for is Waiters. Now that they whiffed on Hayword, the Suns Heat have got to want him back, right? So why sign here?

    8. lavor postell

      BC, I take it you mean Miami? I’m sure they want him back, but Waiters hasn’t made a lot of money and Riley has been fairly consistent about wanting to maintain cap space. They may not be all that interested in giving him a multi-year deal and tbf they’ve demonstrated an ability to find and develop wings out of nowhere.

    9. KnickfaninNJ

      Let me pose a simple question. Leaving out the Knicks, how many teams in the NBA will be tanking next year? The Nets and LA don’t have a first round pick, so they will be trying to win. If we decided to tank, who would we be competing with?

    10. Frank

      by the way – what Mills / Hornacek et al. are doing right now is the way Phil should’ve approached the Melo situation. just make it clear you’re going younger and playing for development and not for wins at this point. No need for Phil Rosen to bash him in the press and play all these games. And lo and behold – a week of this less confrontational messaging and it’s already been made clear Melo would waive his NTC for Houston or Cleveland.

      Overall I don’t see a way for us to get Melo out of here. Denver would’ve been a good bet to be the 3rd team in a NYK/CLE/DEN trade where Denver picks up Love and we get some pieces, but now they have Millsap. I don’t see a way we get him to Houston unless Houston is willing to give Eric Gordon and Ariza, and I don’t really see a reason for Morey to do that. No way anyone is taking on that Ryan Anderson contract — I’d much rather have Melo for 1+1 years than Anderson for 3, especially since i think it is quite possible Melo just opts out and leaves next season.

      (Question though – assuming Melo stays and doesn’t have a revival year, how much do people think he might actually get on the market? He might be a $15MM/year guy or less, which would make it more likely he just opts into 18-19, which would be…unfortunate for us)

      (Another question – can we buy out Melo for less than his total amount due, and then have THAT be the stretch waive or regular waive number? Not that I think he would ever do this but could we buy out Melo for 50c on the dollar ie. 32.5MM and then stretch waive that over 5 years? Because that should be the play if no viable deal presents itself)

    11. lavor postell

      Phoenix, Orlando, Atlanta, Chicago and Indiana.

      God, the East somehow really fucking sucks more than it did before

    12. thenoblefacehumper

      So Dion Waiters’ might be set to begin his inevitable Knicks tenure. I don’t think there’s much to say besides he sucks and can help us tank. So, for a year or two I wouldn’t really care and it could be beneficial to the franchise in the long-term.

      Any longer than that and it means whoever is making decisions for the Knicks these days thinks Dion Waiters is good at NBA basketball, which would be a very bad but familiar sign

    13. fmikieo

      @KfiNJ

      There’s always a team that’s expected to be better that drops like a rock unexpectedly. Utah? Pacers?

      Plus what talent have the Nyets acquired that enables them to not lose?

    14. Brian Cronin

      Yeah, I’d imagine that the Nets would be “favorites” for the #1 pick out of the gate even though they’re trying to win this year.

      The tanking teams look to be:

      Bulls (although, who the hell knows with that team)
      Knicks (probably – we shall see)
      Suns still after briefly flirting with the idea of competing this year
      Magic
      Atlanta
      Indiana

      And who knows how good the Lakers will be. Heck, the Sixers might end up still sucking for all we know. The Kings, Mavericks and Jazz could all also fall down very easily, especially in that difficult Western Conference.

    15. Z-man

      Melo to CLE is still a possibility. I could see other teams facilitating that deal. I just don’t see Melo in Houston, the blood was too bad there. I’d take back Ryan Anderson if they can include Noah in the deal. Is there a 3rd team that would take on Noah’s salary for Houston’s draft pix? Or one of our #1’s with top-10 protection?

      Alas, if we’re stuck with him, no biggie. We either keep him for 2 years or he opts out after one, which I think is highly likely, as he should be able to find sign a 3yr $60ish million deal (i.e. George Hill money) beginning in 2018-19. But please, PLEASE don’t waive him.

    16. lavor postell

      Phoenix, Portland and Charlotte would be interesting 3rd partners in any Melo to CLE trades

    17. Brian Cronin

      Jamal Crawford is soon going to be a free agent. A Knick reunion could happen! Seriously, though, he’s almost certainly just signing with the Lakers or Warriors, right?

      Omri Casspi is a sneaky good signing for the Warriors.

    18. ptmilo

      One interesting NBA non-story is what a disaster the Pistons are. A lot of the moves that SVG made in putting together this team were widely lauded at the time, but they are in a pretty awful situation. The biggest factor of course is Drummond playing way below his max contract, though their strange attempt to turn him into Hakeem probably hasn’t helped. They are hard-capped this year after signing Galloway to a contract that seemed like it had to be above market (yay Gallo) and they are capped out next year, too. That’s *before* whatever happens with KCP. Their most used 3-man lineup combination (Morris, Drummond, KCP) was an amazing -8.4 last year, which is by far the worst in the NBA for any lineup that played nearly as many minutes. In fact, only one other 3-man lineup with at least 1300 minutes together last year was worse than -0.3. That was Melo/Lee/Rose, who were only -2.8.

    19. Z-man

      Players like Drummond are being turned into a disadvantage by small lineup configurations and/or the high PnR. He’s not a perimeter defender or monster rim defender and can’t shoot 3’s. His post game is still unrefined. He’s a rich man’s Jahlil Okafor. It might be that the game is passing those guys (and guys like Al Jefferson, Greg Monroe, and possibly Willy Hernangomez!) by…not that they are not good or valuable, simply that they aren’t max value players anymore.

    20. stratomatic

      I am 100% opposed to Waiters.

      His improvement in 3 point shooting last year was just as likely to be an aberration as it is a sustainable improvement. And despite it, he was still an inefficient scorer. I would consider signing him as a sign of incompetence. I way prefer when Knicks management waits a year or so before making idiotic moves and causing me to lose all hope for the next 4-5 years until we get to the next rebuild. I see no upside to it at all.

    21. Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada

      I love SVG but yeah he’s not a good GM/POBO

      I’d like us to sign Reggie Bullock, he never really got a chance in Detroit but put up good numbers in limited minutes

    22. Z-man

      Yeah, I’m not a Waiters fan at all. If he were even a little bit good, Miami would be bringing him back.

    23. Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada

      @19

      I think traditional rebounding and post bigs can still be max value (see: Nikola Jokic) but in order for them to really be worth it they have to bring one extra elite skill to the table, either passing or defense. Drummond brings neither. Willy can bring passing, hopefully.

    24. Brian Cronin

      I love SVG but yeah he’s not a good GM/POBO

      Don’t give coaches control of your basketball operations, people! Even brilliant coaches like SVG aren’t good at it!

    25. Z-man

      In addition to passing, Jokic steps out and hits 3’s. Big difference, really takes him out of the category of players we are discussing. Same with Cousins.

    26. Z-man

      Seriously, who is the most valuable pure low-post big in the NBA these days? It might still be Superman.

    27. Z-man

      @26 totally agree. It’s too much, and there are conflict of interest issues. Coaches are by nature win-now, where as smart GMs should always balance short and long term. Pat Riley was smart enough to see that.

    28. ptmilo

      He’s a rich man’s Jahlil Okafor. It might be that the game is passing those guys (and guys like Al Jefferson, Greg Monroe, and possibly Willy Hernangomez!)

      That is not the category I stick Drummond in. Those guys are all nifty sorts with punchy footwork and short range touch who will spin and pump you so dizzy you forget they have no fast twitch muscle fibers. Drummond is a monster athlete with horrific touch and below average footwork whose upside once upon a time was more like a DeAndre Jordan/Gobert/Whiteside type beast. But it turns out that despite being a monster who gets 17 reb per 36 AND 1.9 steals, he can’t seem to keep his head anywhere near the game on defense.

      Still, there is no good excuse for Drummond taking only 49% of his shots from the rim last year. That is crazy for a guy like him. I do get that some of that is because his FT rate is so poor that it really changes him as an offensive threat. But the least bad was alternative was NOT to send him into the post a dozen times a game.

    29. KnickfaninNJ

      Lavor: Phoenix, Orlando, Atlanta, Chicago and Indiana
      Brian: Bulls (although, who the hell knows with that team), Phoenix, Orlando, Atlanta, Indiana
      Fmikeo: Maybe add Utah and Indiana and Nets may lose despite themselves

      Phoenix will clearly have the edge since the East really does suck, so they will play tougher competition. I’m really not sure the Bulls are trying to tank. They probably think they got good players and that they straightened out their guard situation, but results may change their mind. Overall, more teams than I had hoped for.

    30. Farfa

      @28

      Nah, come on. Gobert, Whiteside and DeAndre Jordan are clearly better than him. Steven Adams too, I think. I’d say even Marcin Gortat is better (Those last two by a character stand point, Howard has demostrated too many times to be unable to work with his teammates).

    31. stratomatic

      I’m not “all in” on the tank approach. I like the way Houston and Boston operate. I think we should be making strategic “value oriented” signings and trades, trying to accumulate picks without taking on very long term dead weight, and managing cap space well. I think Phil had the right approach. He just made a couple of mistakes and didn’t “win” any deals. If you use that multi faceted approach well you will eventually get good and then top free agents and rolling up assets for stars becomes possible.

    32. GoldClub

      Waiters for a 1 yr contract…amazing. Even better if we get a team option for years 2 and 3 in case he turns into somehting. Perfect for the tank and gets pointz so allows us to feign trying.

      Waiters for >1yr…disaster.

    33. stratomatic

      I’m not “all in” on the tank approach. I like the way Houston and Boston operate. I think we should be making strategic “value oriented” signings and trades, trying to accumulate picks without taking on very long term dead weight, and managing cap space well. I think Phil had the right approach. He just made a couple of mistakes and didn’t “win” any deals. If you use that multi faceted approach well you will eventually get good and then top free agents and rolling up assets for stars becomes possible.

      Timely.

      https://www.sbnation.com/nba/2017/7/5/15920844/gordon-hayward-celtics-danny-ainge-rebuild-trades

    34. danvt

      I’ll consider Dion a referendum on whether we have got religion yet or not. Steve! Look at the Yankees! Look at everyone they DID NOT SIGN. Now, they have Judge, Sanchez, etc. Players AT THE START OF THEIR CAREERS WHO’S BEST YEARS ARE AHEAD OF THEM. We have some people like this.

      No Dion Waiters. Just let Dotson play. Who cares if he’s young. He’ll, at worst, be as good as Dion for pennies on the dollar. Sink or swim with young players, save your bullets for difference makers in FA, and draft well.

      Knicks always have to have fucking Tom Cruise.

    35. danvt

      Just a side note. Wily looked at times last year looked like he was ready to start taking threes. Hopefully he’s kept developing that. I think it’s an important skill for a 5 in this day and age.

    36. Brian Cronin

      I’m not “all in” on the tank approach. I like the way Houston and Boston operate. I think we should be making strategic “value oriented” signings and trades, trying to accumulate picks without taking on very long term dead weight, and managing cap space well. I think Phil had the right approach. He just made a couple of mistakes and didn’t “win” any deals. If you use that multi faceted approach well you will eventually get good and then top free agents and rolling up assets for stars becomes possible.

      Boston absolutely tanked when they traded KG and Paul Pierce and won 25 games. They just acquired so many interesting guys (including stealing Isaiah Thomas and getting Jae Crowder in the Rajon Rondo trade) that they bounced back to respectability quicker than most tanking teams. They still were all in on tanking. They clearly were not planning on winning 40 games in 2014-15.

    37. Totes McGoats

      I don’t get the team’s infatuation with Waiters. Especially now, with Lee on board. Maybe they have a Lee trade in their back pocket and view Waiters as another shot creator. In any case, if the Knicks are really that much into Waiters, then we might as well make Rudy Gay an offer too…sheesh!

      Where’s the PG? They can’t be serious about bringing Rose back. Not with the roster as currently constructed. As I’ve stated many times before..if Melo is moved, then I’m ok with bringing Rose back. But if it comes down to picking either Melo or Rose, then I’m pro-Melo all the way. Collison got snatched, Hill got snatched (good move by Sacto btw), Teague’s off the market, Rubio is in Utah, and Holiday re-upped with NO. All that’s left is Rondo and guys like Shelvin Mack. Would anyone here agree with trading a future 1st and Lee and Kuz for CJ McCollum and Mo Harkless? Mills has to make some sort of move to add young talent this season. If not that move, how about making a play for Faried? He seems expendable with Milsap now a Nugget

    38. Brian Cronin

      I like Faried a lot, but what role would he have on this team with Willy and KP?

      And a big “No” to trading future firsts, unless they’re so heavily protected that it would make no sense for the other team to want them.

    39. stratomatic

      Boston absolutely tanked when they traded KG and Paul Pierce and won 25 games. They just acquired so many interesting guys (including stealing Isaiah Thomas and getting Jae Crowder in the Rajon Rondo trade) that they bounced back to respectability quicker than most tanking teams.

      They acquired interesting players because they are smart and were using a multi-faceted approach to acquire assets.

      The list of teams that tried tanking and rebuilding primarily through the draft that ultimately failed miserably is just as long as the list of teams that tanked, accumulated stars, and kept them.

      The Knicks already tanked and got Porzingis and now Frank (not to mention Willy). Phil was kind of screwed because we were missing 2 1st round picks or we would have more. The part the Knicks did not do well under Jackson was accumulate undervalued assets in other ways.

      He did some things well (KOQ, WH, and Lee is OK), but he lost the Rose trade mildly (depending on what management does with the Rose cap space now), squandered 18m on Noah, got little back but quicker cap space in other trades, and his FA signings were mostly fillers on short term contracts. Even the KOQ contract is no longer a bargain because he’s going to opt out and now you have to either pay him or let him walk. Other teams know that too.

      What we need is someone smart at the helm that will win trades, use cap space effectively, and also draft well with whatever picks we do have. We don’t have to lose 50-60 games every year for the next 2-3 years.

      The reason teams like the Spurs and Rockets remain good is because they use all avenues of rebuilding.

    40. plenty

      I think the question to ask here is – is cap space more valuable than signing a middling-low quality player who will inevitably take minutes from someone with a higher chance of developing into a decent/affordable role player.

      I think staying pat would be the wise move, with where the Knicks are as a franchise. We will have people to make buckets next year; Waiters won’t be mentoring anyone and his habits aren’t going to lead anyone by example, so keep the cap space and be in position to take a chance on a deal when the chance comes.

    41. d-mar

      Please for the love of god no Dion Waiters. What’s the point? I get the tongue in cheek “he helps with the tank” comments, but management (whoever it is these days) is not thinking about that. It would actually indicate that they think Waiters is good and can help the Knicks win games, which would be a very bad sign moving forward.

      Jettison Rose and Melo and just play the kids and see what happens.

    42. Brian Cronin

      They acquired interesting players because they are smart and were using a multi-faceted approach to acquire assets.

      The list of teams that tried tanking and rebuilding primarily through the draft that ultimately failed miserably is just as long as the list of teams that tanked, accumulated stars, and kept them.

      The Knicks already tanked and got Porzingis and now Frank (not to mention Willy). Phil was kind of screwed because we were missing 2 1st round picks or we would have more. The part the Knicks did not do well under Jackson was accumulate undervalued assets in other ways.

      He did some things well (KOQ, WH, and Lee is OK), but he lost the Rose trade mildly (depending on what management does with the Rose cap space now), squandered 18m on Noah, got little back but quicker cap space in other trades, and his FA signings were mostly fillers on short term contracts. Even the KOQ contract is no longer a bargain because he’s going to opt out and now you have to either pay him or let him walk. Other teams know that too.

      What we need is someone smart at the helm that will win trades, use cap space effectively, and also draft well with whatever picks we do have. We don’t have to lose 50-60 games every year for the next 2-3 years.

      The reason teams like the Spurs and Rockets remain good is because they use all avenues of rebuilding.

      Tanking for multiple years is not the only way to rebuild, but when you have no other assets, it is the best way to do it. The Knicks have very few tradeable assets. There was a time that they could have traded their guys for picks (like signing and trading Melo for picks) and made this rebuild a whole lot shorter, which is what Ainge would have done, but Jackson didn’t want to do that. So since they have nothing worth trading to acquire other assets (no one seems interested in Lee and, as you correctly note, no one is interested in KOQ because he’s a free agent at the end of the year), it is best to just tank.

      Teams like the Rockets avoid tanking by constantly moving their players for other assets, like the Patriots under Belichick (Spurs did a little bit of that, as well, with the famous George Hill trade – and, of course, the Spurs also tanked to get Tim Duncan). The Knicks can’t do that, because their “assets” suck (outside of the three guys they shouldn’t trade, of course – KP, Willy and Frank).

    43. thenoblefacehumper

      by the way – what Mills / Hornacek et al. are doing right now is the way Phil should’ve approached the Melo situation. just make it clear you’re going younger and playing for development and not for wins at this point. No need for Phil Rosen to bash him in the press and play all these games. And lo and behold – a week of this less confrontational messaging and it’s already been made clear Melo would waive his NTC for Houston or Cleveland.

      What made Phil Jackson a truly shitty GM is that he actually did make many stupid moves to accommodate Melo (Afflalo, Rose, Noah, etc.), and yet still managed to piss him off with all of his mind games crap. So we got the worst of both worlds:

      A) A bunch of dumb, “win now” moves to fit Melo’s timeline
      B) A pissed off Melo

      If we had A without B, maybe he’d be more amenable to a trade. If we had B without A, our cap sheet and asset collection would both look better. What Phil Jackson managed to do was truly a clinic in incompetent buffoonery.

    44. Z-man

      I don’t put Gobert, Whiteside or Jordon into the “low-post” category. They are not the “dump the ball in and let them go to work” type that, say, Jefferson or Monroe are. I think Dwight fits better into that category. The guys you mentioned are more like Tyson Chandler…rim-protecting, low-usage lob-catchers. Maybe that’s what Howard should be at this point, but he was definitely a first-option low-post scorer during his prime.

      But yeah, they are all better than Dwight at this stage.

    45. ClashFan

      RE Waiters. First off, he’s probably just using the Knicks for leverage with Miami. With Miami losing out on Hayward, they’ve got the cap space for him.

      If, however, he does end up signing with the Knicks, it will depend on the circumstances. If a 4 year / $60m deal or some such, that’s awful. Mills reportedly has long coveted him, which is a bit scary.

      If a 1-2 year type deal, that’s okay. I’d much prefer him over Rondo or Rose. Waiters actually does like to drive and is willing to pass off his drives, unlike Rose. He might help take pressure off of Frank for a year or two.

      One possible positive side effect of having him here (assuming that the Knicks also retain Lee) would be him playing significant minutes at the 3, thus again a message to Melo that he’s not wanted, and a way of reducing his court time. It would be hilarious if the Knicks signed Waiters and decided to START him at the 3 with Melo coming off the bench.

    46. ptmilo

      If you found out 1000 times that Kelly Olynyk got into a minor skirmish in the middle of a playoff game with Kelly Oubre, you could not say something better than Oakley did:

      Told of a skirmish that day in the NBA playoff game between the Celtics’ Kelly Olynyk and the Wizards’ Kelly Oubre Jr., Oakley paused and appeared confused. “You’re telling me,” he said disbelievingly, “that there’s two mother——- in the league named Kelly?”

    47. Donnie Walsh

      If we decided to tank, who would we be competing with?

      All of the accidental tanking teams, like the 2014-2017 New York Knicks.

    48. DRed

      Dion Waiters is very bad at professional basketball-there’s no situation where signing him is a good thing.

      Drummond is Tyson Chandler if he listened to all the people who said he should shoot jump shots to make the defense respect him and improve our spacing.

    49. kevin5318

      The idea behind Waiters is that he’s a good enough playmaker to get KP/Willy the ball(higher ast% than Mack and Rose) while still being bad enough while still being bad enough to help us tank.

      I don’t know how much he’s asking for but a two year deal in the $6-8 Mill range wouldn’t be terrible. Wouldn’t want to go into next season with Frank as our main ball handler.

    50. Cock Jowles, who remembers that reub predicted 55 wins

      Consistently amazed that people on this board still can’t spot a horrible NBA basketball player after all this time.

      Dion Waiters has a career BPM of -2.5, a career VORP of -1.1, a career WS48 (mmm volume scoring) of .037, and a career WP48 of -0.017.

      Hint: Dion Waiters is a horrible NBA basketball player. $8M? Are you kidding me?

    51. Ben R

      How about this? We don’t sign bad players. People talk about the “tank” but I just don’t want bad NBA players. We can find someone just as good (bad?) as Waiters in the d-league for a minimum contract.

      How about a passable PG and then we call it a day. No Rondo. No Rose.

    52. kevin5318

      There are only bad players left at the guard position.. Waiters isn’t my preference just an option for a playmaker.

    53. Cock Jowles, who remembers that reub predicted 55 wins

      If by “playmaker” you mean “volume scorer who can’t shoot and turns the ball over a lot,” then yeah.

    54. kevin5318

      There are not many options left for us at the PG position(no Rondo doesn’t count). Its all bad players that we hope can get the ball to KP and Willy effectively..

    55. lavor postell

      Waiters doesn’t really turn the ball over a lot and assists at a good rate for a 2 guard. Still not good which is why a short term signing of him is fine with me. He soaks up some needed usage that is gone with Rose and Melo both likely out of the picture and allows our young guys to gradually develop and step into more prominent offensive roles while also preserving the tank.

      I don’t think anybody is suggesting we sign Waiters because he’s actually good or wants to commit to him long-term.

    56. Totes McGoats

      I’d much rather see the team sign Trey Burke or Shelvin Mack to a 2-3 year cheap deal than have Waiters at any cost. If you need a chucker for a 6th man then Waiters probably is your guy. In the Knicks case, Willy and Kuz are far better 6th man options than Waiters is- mainly because we are in the development/ rebuilding stage. If the team really wants a veteran placeholder for 1 or 2 years, then Rondo and Lawson are better options than Waiters. I wonder if Exum might be available with Rubio in Utah and what would it take to get him. Hell..Mills can even trade for Grant and I’d be happier than that than I would be with signing Waiters. I think Waiters can play(though I’m not a fan) and he’s not the worst player in the world- but he’s a worse fit than Rose was/is. Sure it would help the tank, but it wouldn’t help with KP’s development- which is paramount of the team is gonna keep him

    57. JK47

      This thread proves that the Knicks can acquire some of the truly worst players in the NBA and people here will rationalize it. It happened with Bargnani, it happened with Rose and now it’s happening with Waiters.

      The Knicks could sign Anthony Bennett to a 2/20 contract and some people would think that’s a good move.

    58. lavor postell

      Sure yeah, I’d prefer Rondo and Mack to Waiters but a 2 year deal for him isn’t something I’m going to be pissed about. He’s very unlikely to make us better and probably makes us worse but he’ll shoulder some usage for a couple of years while we rebuild/tank. That’s all I really want from any guard signing at this stage, just somebody to make up the numbers for a few years and take on some shot creation and ball handling duties we’ll need replaced with Rose and Melo gone.

    59. Owen

      Dion Waiters? We talking about Dion Waiters?

      It’s going to be hard to watch the Knicks if we sign him.

    60. Cock Jowles, who remembers that reub predicted 55 wins

      Who would you guys prefer we get to run the point?

      Literally any undrafted rookie who is a pass-first PG. Dion Waiters is a scrub. Like, bottom-tier scrub. Plus, he’s 26 so there’s virtually no chance of him improving.

      https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/carmelo/dion-waiters/

      Look at his true shooting and his usage. When a guy is ~80th percentile usage, his 10th percentile TS% means he is extra, extra bad.

      Why would we waste a roster slot on a scrub — a bona-fide, MCW/Wroten/Mudiay-level scrub — when there are plenty of players who should be given a rookie minimum contract with team options, who could very well be the next Seth Curry or Jeremy Lin?

      Why? Please tell me why.

    61. Cock Jowles, who remembers that reub predicted 55 wins

      He soaks up some needed usage

      I love the idea that our 7’3″ PF, who has a beautiful stroke and can shoot over anyone, can’t take enough shots, so Waiters should “soak up some needed usage.”

      Nonsense. Total nonsense.

    62. JK47

      One way the Knicks might become a better team in the future is to stop acquiring the worst players in the NBA.

    63. kevin5318

      Like I’m genuinely asking for a name since our options are limited. Pretty much any stopgap would be a bad player who’s older than 26.

      There might not be a Jeremy Lin or Seth curry out there right now.

    64. JK47

      The Knicks sucked last year in terms of eFG%: they were 25th in the league, with a .496 eFG%.

      So let’s go acquire a guy with a .462 career eFG%, who brings the added extra special sauce of shooting a lot. The Knicks also stunk at offensive FT/FGA, so let’s bring in a guy who averages about 3 FTA per 36 minutes. The Knicks also stunk at rebounding, so let’s bring in another guard who is a pitiful rebounder.

      If you want to amplify the weaknesses of the 2016-2017 Knicks, Dion Waiters is your guy.

    65. lavor postell

      I love the idea that our 7’3? PF, who has a beautiful stroke and can shoot over anyone, can’t take enough shots, so Waiters should “soak up some needed usage.”

      Nonsense. Total nonsense.

      There’s no way our 7’3″ PF can increase his usage enough to make up for no Melo and no Rose who were like a combined 55 USG% last year. If KP gets up to 3o USG% next year, which is an insane increase from where he’s at, Willy increases his to 25 and everybody else chips in we’ll still need one more guy capable of creating.

      If it’s Waiters on a 2 year deal I don’t care. If it’s Mack that’s fine too. If it’s Rondo just assist hunting for others that’s dandy. I do not give a shit who it is as long as it’s a short term contract that comes off the books by next summer or the year after.

      If you want to amplify the weaknesses of the 2016-2017 Knicks, Dion Waiters is your guy.

      You mean tank? Yeah, that’s exactly what I’d like to do. You got it.

    66. JK47

      Waiters is not even a point guard. He’s a chucking shooting guard. I mean what the fuck.

    67. kevin5318

      @78 Wasn’t just talking about Waiters. We’ve been linked to Mack, Rondo, Rose of the remaining PG’s.

    68. TheOakmanCometh

      Honestly, we don’t need anyone. If we go into the season with our current roster, minus Melo, plus minimum contracts, that’s totally fine. Bottom out. Let the young guys play. Take on bad salary + assets from anyone who’s offering it. Get a top 4 pick.

      We are going to suck regardless of whether we add Rondo or Waiters or any other scrub free agent. I’d rather watch a team of high-character young guys win 21 games than a team of questionable-character vets win 26 games.

    69. Bruno Almeida

      every single one of those names suck, and Id rather see Baker start than give anything more than a 1 year deal to any of those players.

      the only bigger name Id be remotely interested in is Teodosic.

    70. lavor postell

      Nope he is a chucker. He’s actually a quite bad one. That helps us tank which I’ve been told repeatedly is a great thing for a rebuilding team.

      I’ve also said that Mack and Rondo would be players I’d prefer to Waiters. They also aren’t very good. Most of the players we sign at this stage aren’t going to be good so as long as we’re not giving massive contracts for extended years to do it I’m not all that worried about who we sign so long as it’s a perimeter player and not another big.

    71. ptmilo

      Dion’s not a chucker he’s a usage soaker

      JR’s not a joker he’s a midnight toker

    72. lavor postell

      Honestly, we don’t need anyone. If we go into the season with our current roster, minus Melo, plus minimum contracts, that’s totally fine. Bottom out. Let the young guys play. Take on bad salary + assets from anyone who’s offering it. Get a top 4 pick.

      Totally fine with this also, but I find it unlikely that the Knicks go this route. They’ve been linked with Waiters, Rondo and Mack and all 3 suck which is fine so long as the contract is short term and not crazy expensive.

    73. JK47

      I wouldn’t mind a Shelvin Mack/Ramon Sessions platoon, which would probably cost very little, so KP and Willy could at least have a somewhat competent NBA point guard to play with. Ron has a cute haircut and all, but that guy is not an NBA-quality point guard and I think running him out there for 2,000 minutes would be a disaster for the development of our bigs. Just get a placeholder who can run a reasonable facsimile of a pick and roll and not embarrass himself and call it a day. We don’t need a “usage soaker,” we need somebody who can pass.

    74. Owen

      Gallinari to Clippers, didn’t realize that happened. Happy for Gallo, you know he’s going to love LA.

    75. lavor postell

      I wouldn’t mind a Shelvin Mack/Ramon Sessions platoon

      Cool. Let’s do that. Neither is very good so that’d be perfect.

    76. TheOakmanCometh

      Mack would be OK if it was a low-money deal. But Waiters and Rondo at any price is a bad move. They’ve got bad habits on the court and bad attitudes off it. We don’t want those rubbing off on the young guys.

      Player development and tanking should be our only two priorities next year. Any option that hurts those two causes should be ignored.

    77. JK47

      Dion Waiters averaged 15.8 pointzz per game last year. If he comes here it is going to be on some awful contract.

    78. lavor postell

      I can see how Waiters would hurt player development, but Rondo? What does he do that’d be terrible for Willy, KP and Frank? All the young guys in Chicago like worshiped Rondo, so I’m curious.

    79. kevin5318

      Rondo off the court would probably be a bigger problem if/when he starts feuding with Hornaceck. I’d prefer to keep us low key with a guy like Mack or just run Ron for the next season.

    80. JK47

      Over/under on how many games it would take until Rondo is posting Vaseline-eating videos on YouTube: 20

    81. Cock Jowles, who remembers that reub predicted 55 wins

      I wonder how many NBA teams write all of their offseason transactions’ names on a board and add or subtract PPG to figure out where they’ll be year over year.

      I could definitely see Vlade Divac being like, “Wow, we added 40 PPG to our team and only lost 20 PPG. We could be a 2-seed this year.”

    82. GoNyGoNyGo

      Dion Waiters? Please, shoot me now.
      I’m very happy with us doing nothing so far. Signing Waiters would ruin a perfect off-season. Time to tank big. We need that #1 overall pick to snag Michael Porter Jr. Oh, and if Brian is right about Marvin Bagley III, a tank next year too is fine by me.

    83. Bruno Almeida

      @94

      I’ll happily take the under.

      Rondo hasn’t managed a single year since the last couple of good Celtics teams where he wasn’t the focus of negative media / coach fights / calling people out while playing terribly… and yet Knicks fans, as always, want to convince themselves that the 1% chance will happen and evidence is not reliable.

    84. JK47

      As of right now, there are four true blue-chip prospects in the 2018 draft pool:

      Michael Porter – 6’10” wing, great combo of skill and athleticism
      DeAndre Ayton – 7’0″ center, throwback 90’s-style center with the added wrinkle of a 3-point shot
      Mohamed Bamba – 7’0″ center in the Chandler/DeAndre Jordan/Camby/Whiteside mold
      Luka Doncic – 6’7″ wing with diverse and polished offensive game and incredible athletic ability

    85. 2FOR18

      I see some of you poor, deluded Knicks fans not only think melo could be traded, and not only think that melo might opt out after next season, but you don’t realize that he’ll re-sign here for another 3 years after his contract is up in 2019.
      Waiters, melo, Noah, Zach Randolph, welcome to the 2019 knicks.

    86. chrisk06811

      guys, you are forgetting in the triangle, PG isn’t all that important anyway.

      BTW….Howard Eisley is on our coaching staff. Can’t he just suit up and problem solved?

    87. Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada

      Mo Bamba has a 7’10 wingspan and 9’6 standing reach. Dude has insane measureables.

      I would classify Doncic as a Lebron type point forward. Obviously he’s not a Lebron level prospect, but he’s that kind of player on offense that makes his whole team better while also being able to score at every range. I think he has superstar written all over him.

      I like Bonga, he’s getting a lot of Giannis comparisons and they aren’t too far off the mark though I doubt he makes the kind of leap Giannis did.

    88. Jack Bauer

      “Looks like Teodosic is going to the Clips :(”
      That’s what happens when your team doesn’t have a GM in place to sign players during the free agent signing period.

    89. Jack Bauer

      Waiters and Rondo, sure sign me up for that train wreck.
      KP & Willy will be really excited to play with that clown show of a backcourt

    90. d-mar

      Looks like Teodosic is going to the Clips :(

      Fuck, that would have been such a low risk, potential high reward signing for us.

      Instead, we’re targeting Dion Waiters and Rajon Rondo, the booby prizes of NBA free agency.

    91. ClashFan

      I’ve said all along that I’d be happy if the Knicks sign no one and run with Ron and Randle at PG as Frank is worked in.

      Retain the $15m in cap space to facilitate a trade and pick up a pick or young player with upside if possible. For example, if Minny really will give up OKC’s 1st rounder next year to a team willing to eat Cole’s contract ($7.3m, if I remember), that would be great.

      However, I think the discussion here is that Mills is probably going to sign someone. If he does, you’re making lesser of evils arguments. In that, I’ll prefer Waiters over asshats like Rose or Rondo. But yeah, please NONE of them!

    92. cgreene

      If we need a high usage player for 2 years who doesn’t make us much if at all better I have an idea… Carmelo Anthony.

    93. Bruno Almeida

      @108

      right on hahaha

      we already have one of the all-time best “usage soakers” in the league, why go for another?

      and yeah, Teodosic is also gone… now I REALLY want the Knicks to sign none of the remaining clowns… hell, let Chasson start, who cares.

    94. stratomatic

      Tanking for multiple years is not the only way to rebuild, but when you have no other assets, it is the best way to do it. The Knicks have very few tradeable assets. There was a time that they could have traded their guys for picks (like signing and trading Melo for picks) and made this rebuild a whole lot shorter, which is what Ainge would have done, but Jackson didn’t want to do that. So since they have nothing worth trading to acquire other assets (no one seems interested in Lee and, as you correctly note, no one is interested in KOQ because he’s a free agent at the end of the year), it is best to just tank.

      I understand the thinking, but I don’t think we should limit ourselves.

      When everyone has exhausted their cap space signing stars this year, there will probably be a few bargains available. We should try to grab 1 or 2.

      If someone wants to move a player to gain more space, we should consider taking a bad contract for a pick as long as it’s not too long and crippling to our own free agency plans.

      IMO Lee and KOQ are both good assets.

      It’s been reported that they like Lee and don’t really want to move him (unless they can get something they really like?). IMO, KOQ can also be moved very easily. He’s still a bargain at his price even if it’s only for 1 year.

      The idea would be to try to WIN any trades with those guys. If you can’t win the trades you keep them. But adding 1-3 players like them now would put us in a position to make trades and moves in future years and avoid having to tank beyond 2018. Otherwise you are picking up 1 draft pick a year (who may or may not turn out to be any good) and it takes forever.

      There are 3 options for improving. At any given time 1 may be more attractive than the others or 1 may not be available. But stealing bargains shouldn’t be off the table.

    95. fmikieo

      Marcus Smart and Terry Rozier are available as the C’s need space for Hayward’s contract. Maybe it’ll take a 2nd to get them.

    96. JK47

      We have a prime asset at PF, a potential franchise centerpiece, and we’re going to “develop” him by having Ron fucking Baker pass him the ball. Then when he spends a whole season on the perimeter trying to be a 7’3″ guy who dribbles a lot and tries to create his own shots and his efficiency sucks, we’ll wonder why.

      Porzingis is a potentially lethal pick and roll, pick and pop player. Just get him a passable NBA point guard and get him to work on that part of his game for chrissake.

    97. Mike R

      randle should be released that guy is terrible. Get Mack to a one year deal and call it a day. Mills has to know that no matter what he does here in this offseason this team is going to suck. Signing dion would be a disaster. The philosophy must be addition by subtraction. Trade whatever pieces you can that will get you assets back. Do not make a “big” free agent signing a la Noah last year. This could finally be the year we learn from the past 15 + years of mistake after mistake.

    98. Mike R

      And we either need to find a pobo already or announce that mills has the job for the interim. This franchise needs to show stability before it can improve

    99. TheOakmanCometh

      It would also be great to get our own 2nd round pick back from Philly. Those high 2nd rounders are valuable.

      Offer them KOQ, Lee, Lance, Baker, etc and see if they’re interested.

    100. stratomatic

      Hint: Dion Waiters is a horrible NBA basketball player. $8M? Are you kidding me?

      If they signed him for 2 years at 4M per year to be a 6th man scorer off the bench, I’d only get queasy. I would not throw up.

      If they pay more than that or give him more years, they are incompetents and any talk of tanking etc… is moot. We will be in permanent tank mode because they aren’t any good.

    101. NYFaithful33

      Any possibility that Utah wants to join in on a trade with Cleveland to get Melo?

      Maybe we send Melo to Cleveland, Love goes to Utah, and we get picks and a bad contract, or Donovan Mitchell and a bad contract. Maybe they give us the oft injured Derrick Favors. Honestly all I’m interested in is prospects and getting rid of Melo and his selfish attitude.

      I haven’t put too much thought into this honestly, but after losing Heyward they could use a player like Love for Rubio to set up.

    102. ptmilo

      it would be kind of amusing if melo got sick of watching rome simmer at an extremely low heat and demanded a trade

    103. stratomatic

      Gallinari to Clippers, didn’t realize that happened. Happy for Gallo, you know he’s going to love LA.

      I read a quote from him about his early time in Denver. He said something about the women being less aggressive than in NY and that he might have to fall in love. lmao Things may be better in LA.

    104. Frank O.

      Good lord this is a depressing blog.
      Waiters???
      Really??
      Jowles has this one nailed.
      If we need a stopgap and we’re tanking, then Ramon Sessions platooning with Ron and Frank is a workable solution, but short term.
      I have never, ever heard someone speak in terms of finding usage…if that is the measure, we have Melo.
      I actually believe Melo’s overall TS% and eFG% would greatly improve if his usage came down to 23% to 25% and KP’s climbed.
      Melo is still a good shooter. He just can’t finish around the hoop (zero explosiveness) and he struggles now creating good shots.
      I also wonder if KP isn’t intelligent enough and a solid enough passer that the Knicks could run their offense through him, as the Knicks did with David Lee.

    105. thenoblefacehumper

      I agree with JK47 that it’s important to get someone who can actually get KP and Willy the ball in decent spots for once, even if the plan is mostly to suck. That means not Ron Baker. Honestly, a good shitty-point-guard-who-is-a-decent-enough-playmaker is…Brandon Jennings. I guess that’s not happening.

      Sergio Rodriguez? Deron Williams? I dunno, but it’s very important to actually see some improvement out of Porzingis this season.

    106. Bruno Almeida

      then get Ramon Sessions, Sergio Rodriguez or Greivis Vazquez for the veteran minimum and we’re set.

      there’s no reason at all to even look at Rondo or Waiters.

    107. 2FOR18

      Ramon Sessions is the perfect Josh McNown stop gap tank pg. He’s a willing passer who can’t shoot.

    108. thenoblefacehumper

      Also while a Dion Waiters signing would almost certainly be a disaster and be a huge indictment on whatever our front office is at the moment, there is a small defense of it that could be made.

      If our front office is a little more creative than the Phil Jackson regime (in other words if they think about their jobs for any longer than 5 minutes a day or so), it’s possible they view Waiters more as an asset than a player. Amazingly, he was once traded midseason for a first round pick (the JR/Shump trade), and that was when he was literally the worst player in the NBA as opposed to the more run-of-the-mill bad he is now.

      If the Knicks get him on a cheap contract, it’s possible they could ship him off to a fringe playoff team looking for “a spark off the bench” or whatever dumb phrase people use to refer to shitty chuckers these days.

      …it would probably just mean they like him though, which sucks.

    109. TheOakmanCometh

      Waiters shot 64% from the line last year. For his career he’s at 70%. He’s a 2-guard. WTF is that?

    110. TheOakmanCometh

      Sessions is basically a slightly crummier version of Rose. Good penetrator who can’t shoot and is an OK passer. Rose took 41% of his shots at the rim last year; Sessions is 40% for his career.

      Considering that Sessions has no baggage and will come a lot cheaper, he’s fine on a 1-2 year deal.

    111. Cock Jowles, who remembers that reub predicted 55 wins

      Waiters shot 64% from the line last year. For his career he’s at 70%. He’s a 2-guard. WTF is that?

      but he soaks the usage up so as to not ruin the hardwood with spilt FGA

    112. nicos

      Waiters is probably no worse than Sessions (who was awful last year) or Rodriguez but that isn’t saying much. Mack wasn’t great last either but I guess he’s probably at the top of my list. I’m guessing it’ll be Waiters at three for 18-20m which would be godawful.

    113. stratomatic

      Frank Ntilikina could make his first summer league appearance today— RotoDenNYK (@RotodenNYK) July 5, 2017

      Frank is out (from Berman just now)

    114. KBrazilian

      Great Oakley quote, thank you.

      I’m impressed that some people here still think that the Cavs can do such a thing as trading Love just to get Carmelo. As desperate and GM-less as they are, facing a more-formidable-by-the-minute Warriors, they have to know that Exchange Love for Melo is not the answer. If they manage to get Melo AND maintain Love (increasingly improbable), then they can improve a little to not get swept in the Finals. I think the Knicks lost the timing to trade Melo, so they better wait to see if they can get something better on the trade deadline.

      No Waiters, please.

    115. Bruno Almeida

      @134

      that’s the thing, hes not more terrible than the other options, he’s just a lot more expensive and is a 2 guard.

      expecting him to run the Knicks offense because he has a decent ast% for a 2-guard is absolutely insane, he’s a chucker and he’ll die a chucker.

      thankfully I think both the Lakers and the Heat are more interesting options for him, but anything above the minimum for Dion freaking Waiters is a disaster no matter what.

    116. Bruno Almeida

      btw the Pacers are reportedly looking to buy out Monta Ellis… another player who’s destined to be a Knick is on the market, I’m legitimately scared.

    117. english_knick

      A lot of good points and also a lot of crazy stuff on the board today. Two thoughts.

      The idea that you need to ‘fill’ usage is a strange one… 100% of NBA possessions will end, so a team will add up to 100% usage – fact. If some of those possessions end with an inefficient player doing something inefficient, wouldn’t we all rather that guy was 22 and earned the money than 27 and earned $10m per? At this point it’s not about winning games…

      The person that said we’ve already tanked and got the assets we’ve got- I would remind you that in no seasons in the last few have we started the season committed to a rebuild. I don’t mean trying to lose – I mean focussing on a clean cap sheet and maximising good young players. Every year has been ‘win now’ moves that haven’t worked, followed by sucking, followed by realising there wasn’t much point in trying. And still not then jettisoning the win now assets. Let’s not re-dress that after the fact as tanking or rebuilding.

    118. Donnie Walsh

      Dion Waiters is basically the shitty younger brother of Nick Young. (And Nick Young sucks shit.)

    119. Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada

      Dotson really can shoot it

      I’d like to see Labeyrie on the actual Knicks team

    120. Ntilakilla

      Our offseason continues to perfection. Now all we need is for Frank to destroy these Summer League fools.

    121. alsep73

      At this point, I doubt they bother having Frank suit up for the finale. Which is a bummer, but why risk him further?

    122. KBrazilian

      Waiters penned an article on the Player’s Tribune a couple of months ago where he reeeaaally lauded Pat Riley, so I’ve always felt that he would rejoin the Heat, specially if they whiffed on Gordon Hayward. But for a second, I thought that he could be a Knick, which would be suboptimal :)

    123. chrisk06811

      Dion returned to Mia because we won’t commit to running the triangle. balls.

    124. Ntilakilla

      So Riley missed out on Hayward and resigned Waiters. Anyone want to rethink that genius label?

    125. Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada

      Holy fuck a four year contract for Dion waiters NOPE

      Chasson is most definitely not a 1

      Vince Carter isn’t an NBA broadcast quality announcer but I actually like him on the summer league cast

    126. Jack Bauer

      Waiters to Miami, they saved us from ourselves!
      Now we need rondo to sign with someone else and all will be good in tankland

    127. Bruno Almeida

      whew…. now all we have to dodge is Rondo and Rose, maybe Ellis and we’re fine!

    128. thenoblefacehumper

      Holy shit that is a god awful contract. Like, among the worst in the sport. Thank god we “struck out” on this one. Has Riley lost his marbles?

    129. chrisk06811

      I don’t know who this guy is in these horrible MSG commercials, but I want a “ball don’t lie” t shirt

    130. 2FOR18

      Wow I just got laid off and now I find out that Dion Waiters is making 13 mil a year more than me. Ball does lie.

    131. Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada

      @162

      My favorite is “7 points per game joe ingles”

    132. bockadoo

      Randle is brutal. Gets the ball stolen, can’t get past guys off the dribble… good shooter though. Not a pure point guard. I think Dotson is a rotation guy – good pick. Artis can shoot but won’t make the team. The big French guy is no better than n’Dour. I think we need Rondo to be fair to KP. We could fight for the 8th seed if Rondo isn’t a dick and KP would average 22, 10 and 3.

    133. JK47

      Those chucklefucks on that Heat board think they got a huge steal.

      I grew up in South Florida. It’s not exactly an intellectual paradise.

    134. geo

      wow, i guess all that sunshine and bikini stuff must’ve turned all their brains to mush…i remember the first time i saw one of those hot looking hot dog vendors in a bikini on the side of the road – totally understandable for them to think they just got a good deal…

      i was trying to find a nice way to say something like this:

      “I grew up in South Florida. It’s not exactly an intellectual paradise.”

      well put…

    135. Jabstepping Is A Big Part Of What We Do Around Here

      “Rondo, Waiters and Gay. Nothing less.”

      This is satire, yes?

    136. BigBlueAL

      Don’t know what’s been worse to watch, the Knicks Summer League team or the Yankees the past 4 weeks.

    137. Bruno Almeida

      man, we fight and complain about each other, but reading this heat thread literally made me appreciate this board even more.

      what
      the
      actual
      fuck.

    138. geo

      Don’t know what’s been worse to watch, the Knicks Summer League team or the Yankees the past 4 weeks.

      not to stray too far from home – but, what kind of irony is it that it’s the bullpen falling apart instead of their offense (first clippard and now betances falls apart)…feels a little like the g-men and their season last year…all of a sudden the defense is a strength and the offense is a mess…

      hmmmm, maybe the knicks will play some good “d” this year…

    139. Bruno Almeida

      Frank’ s mom looks adorable, will enjoy seeing her cheer him up in the playoffs a couple of years from now.

    140. geo

      i read something about teodesic potentially to the clippers for 3 years 24 million…

      8 million a year for someone whom has never played in the nba seems a little steep…

    141. Ntilakilla

      Sources within the Celtics organization say that Boston has engaged teams on a possible Jae Crowder trade. Knicks, Hawks, Pacers interested.— The Horizontal (@TheHorizontalV) July 5, 2017

    142. BigBlueAL

      Hopefully Betances can snap out of it like Tanaka apparently has but the fear with Betances has always been his control considering his minor league track record.

      People here on board with perhaps trading for Crowder, Smart, Rozier or even Bradley since the Celtics are looking to clear salary cap space??

    143. alsep73

      What do we have that Boston would want for Crowder while also shaving the necessary dollars off the cap? Willy would accomplish both, probably, but I’m reluctant to trade him.

    144. Brian Cronin

      What do we have that Boston would want for Crowder while also shaving the necessary dollars off the cap? Willy would accomplish both, probably, but I’m reluctant to trade him.

      I’d deal him in theory, but not for Crowder. Crowder’s greatest value is to a good team where his salary would slot in well for cap purposes.

    145. Ben R

      We have no need for Crowder, I actually don’t know if he is even going to be better than Willy next year but even if he is he doesn’t help us. He will get paid in two years and we still have zero PGs on this roster. We could add Paul George and if Baker and Randle are our PGs we will be bad. Crowder doesn’t move the needle at all.

    146. stratomatic

      It’s hard for us mere mortals to disagree with Pat Riley, but imo Waiters for 4 years at 52 million is not a good deal. Maybe Riley will work some magic on him, get him in better shape, and teach him how to make better decisions, but either way, we dodged a bullet there.

      I think it’s becoming clear why the Knicks let Justin Holiday walk. Damyean Dotson is younger, cheaper, and has way more upside. We are very good at this drafting stuff! Now my mouth is watering to see Frank play.

      The Knicks have to find a spot for Louis Labeyire. He’s already better than Plumlee. In addition, if they plan on moving KOQ at some point this year, maybe he can take that role.

    147. Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada

      I’d riot if we traded Willy for Crowder

    148. Ben R

      The Teodosic deal isn’t done they are just talking. The Clippers are waiting to see if they can get Rose first. I really don’t understand NBA front offices.

      We need to strike now. 3 years $27 million just to out bid them. Get it done now.

    149. Ntilakilla

      I would love to have Smart just for the purpose of having him defend KP in the post during every practice.

    150. geo

      i like marcus smart a lot…now that phil and his propensity for tall guards is gone (i have trouble believing he’s actually 6’4″)…i’d love to see smart on our squad…

    151. Ben R

      I’m okay with Smart and would love Crowder as long as we don’t move Willy, KP, Frank or a 1st. Both are good defenders but Smart is a trainwreck of an offensive player.

    152. dtrickey

      Seems like it is a buyers market for guys on the outer in Boston, so they seem like they could be had for cheap. Smart is an interesting proposition. Dude can’t shoot for shit, but his Defence at the 1 or 2 would be handy if the price were right.

    153. ClashFan

      Are the C’s expecting anything back for Smart, or just looking to dump him? He’s a god awful scorer.

      I’d trade Randle for him!
      :-)

    154. Cock Jowles, who remembers that reub predicted 55 wins

      Crowder replacing Melo makes our frontcourt locked for the next five years. He’s the quintessential underrated wing.

    155. Ben R

      O’Quinn for Crowder and Smart. Gets them a rim protector/rebounder and cuts $7 million off their cap and doesn’t help a potential opponent.

    156. BigBlueAL

      The Celtics are trying to get rid of salary so trading for any of those guys would basically be absorbing their contracts to your cap space and maybe sending out a non-guaranteed contract and a 2nd rd pick.

      Or something like Ben R proposed.

    157. ClashFan

      Randle and OQ for Crowder and Smart. Celts get one useful player and shed about $6m. Crowder would be nice for the Knicks and Smart can be dumped after 1 year.

      Or, forget Randle and they shed over $7m, I think.

      It doesn’t hurt to ask.

    158. Accidentank 2017

      Could you imagine how good KP would become if the Knicks just made Marcus Smart guard him in practice all day? There’s no way Ainge gives us Smart and Crowder for nothing (because that would be supremely dumb), but give me Smart all day.

    159. stratomatic

      Crowder replacing Melo makes our frontcourt locked for the next five years. He’s the quintessential underrated wing.

      I wonder if he’ll play as well for us as he has for Boston? I would not mind if we had either Bradley or Crowder. I just don’t want Smart. He’s too horrible on offense.

    160. ess-dog

      I’m guessing the Cs don’t want to take back salary for those guys to make room for Hayward’s deal. So might have to be a 3 team deal or we just trade 2nd rounders for either/both of them.

    161. charley

      If we keep Melo he’s going to go off this year you know. Just add Rondo and a little water and stand back.

    162. yellowboy90

      I think Courtney Lee needs to return to Boston. They could use his shooting at the two off the bench.

      Lee for Crowder and Bradley would be a dream

      Also, what the heck is the value for players like Crowder and Bradley after the Butler, Paul, and George trades?

    163. er

      The fuckin knicks could be a top 5 seed this year if they tried to win this year. That’s what’s so funny to me

    164. Bruno Almeida

      @208

      well, last time you predicted something similar, we all know what happened…

      a huge, giant no to Smart.
      he can’t shoot and won’t come cheap.

    165. er

      Who is good in the east. Seriously. I’m saying if they try to aquire a nice point guard and get players like Crowder/Bradley. The Knicks have to basically stand pat to tank

      Cleveland Boston Raptors and Wiz and Bucks.

    166. geo

      okay, okay…i get it – smart can’t shoot for shit…considering his offense and defense together – he’s nearly a zero sum player…

      however, he most definitely sure seemed to be doing okay during the playoffs – the games i watched he looked really good…a beast defensively…he hit a few open shots too…

      yes, the eye test tells me – he would do great for us next year…ugh, i need the clenched teeth emoji…

    167. Bruno Almeida

      Smart has a .480 ts% for his career, improved to .497 in the playoffs this year… to say that he can’t shoot is an understatement.

      yes, obviously he’s a good defender, but he’s not a floor general, he can’t shoot and there’s no sign he’s ever going to be able to at a level where it makes a difference.

      the Heat and the Hornets were better than the Knicks last year and would likely be better still, even with Crowder / whatever pipe dream signing possible…. and what good does getting a low playoff seed in the east does, getting a chance to be steamrolled in 4 by the Cavs or Celtics while destroying the future of the team once again? Please, no.

    168. ClashFan

      Now reading that the Knicks never made Waiters an offer, but LA Lakers may have offered a one year deal.

      Give it up LA; it is destiny. Sign Rondo!

      Heat appeared to be bidding against themselves.

    169. ClashFan

      Smart by himself is uninteresting. However, if taking on his contract (just one year guaranteed) is the price you pay to get Crowder, I say do it if you can do so without trading any young talent or 1st round draft choices.

      Smart could eat up some of the PG minutes available for a year.

    170. Ben R

      We are not going to go from bottom feeder to contender in one season unless we sign LeBron or Durant. We need to build a team. That team needs to improve slowly. 40 wins next year and a 5 game series against Boston would be fine. Then year after that maybe win 48 games make it to the 2nd round.

      This tank until we get a 2nd superstar and then win 50 games the following year is just as unrealistic as gutting the team every year in hopes of signing superstar x. We have KP now, he is our star, we are most likely not drafting a better player. Let’s start to build a team around him now. That means getting someone to play point (not Rose or Rondo), maybe stealing Crowder from Boston, trading Melo for anything and then put a team on the floor now that will stay consistent for the next 3-5 years improving where we can slowly as our youth develops.

      There will always be an exciting young player to tank for. It never ends. We have our star now, no need to tank further.

    171. MSA

      Smart overall is not a good player but if he’s available for just cap space or some future 2nd rounder I would do it.

      It would be a breath of fresh air to have a defensive oriented team for once.

    172. ptmilo

      Didn’t someone here once suggest Miami for Melo? If Riley will pay Waiters 4/52 maybe he’ll throw us Winslow for Melo. I think they have the space for that. Then we can send a second for Smart and have two awesome defenders who can’t shoot a lick.

    173. Brian Cronin

      We are not going to go from bottom feeder to contender in one season unless we sign LeBron or Durant. We need to build a team. That team needs to improve slowly. 40 wins next year and a 5 game series against Boston would be fine. Then year after that maybe win 48 games make it to the 2nd round.

      This tank until we get a 2nd superstar and then win 50 games the following year is just as unrealistic as gutting the team every year in hopes of signing superstar x. We have KP now, he is our star, we are most likely not drafting a better player. Let’s start to build a team around him now. That means getting someone to play point (not Rose or Rondo), maybe stealing Crowder from Boston, trading Melo for anything and then put a team on the floor now that will stay consistent for the next 3-5 years improving where we can slowly as our youth develops.

      There will always be an exciting young player to tank for. It never ends. We have our star now, no need to tank further.

      If they had a young team filled with assets, sure, gradual improvement makes sense. No one is telling the Bucks to tank, ya know? The Knicks, though, are still a pretty old team filled with mostly shitty assets. Trying to win 40 games with Melo, Lee and Noah doesn’t make sense.

    174. geo

      Smart has a .480 ts% for his career, improved to .497 in the playoffs this year… to say that he can’t shoot is an understatement.

      yeah well, that may be a good point but – oh okay, there really is no but in this situation…

      somebody wearing a knick jersey has gotta bounce the ball up the court…too bad the cavs snatched up calderon…even at 45 he can still play – a little…

    175. Bruno Almeida

      @216

      that would be a good plan if we had a young player who’s very likely to be a superstar and at least another one with the potential to be one.

      I’m sorry, and I love KP, but he hasn’t produced superstar level basketball in his career so far, and as much as I like Willy too, to say he has shown superstar potential is a big stretch.

      forcing this team to try and start winning now is likely to not help KP at all, and makes it even more terrible if it turns out he’s not the superstar in the making we want to believe he is.

      also, this team has exactly 3 young assets and nothing else outside of our own draft picks… to devalue your own draft picks chasing meaningless wins is precisely what makes the Hornets of the league.

    176. Ben R

      If they had a young team filled with assets, sure, gradual improvement makes sense. No one is telling the Bucks to tank, ya know? The Knicks, though, are an old team filled with mostly shitty assets. Trying to win 40 games with Melo, Lee and Noah doesn’t make sense.

      Noah shouldn’t play much, Melo will most likely be gone. It is okay if our young team has a couple older players on it if the core is developing together.

      Our core is Frank, KP and Willy. Maybe one of our other young players like Baker or Dotson or Labeyrie (if he joins) or Randle or Smart (if we trade for him) will develop into a long term rotation player. Then take team oriented veterans like Lee and O’Quinn and add a player or two in their prime like Crowder and we have something that we can keep together for the forseeable future. We don’t need all 8 rotation players to be under 25. What we need is stability of all ages around the 3-5 young players that we are grooming to be our core.

    177. Ben R

      @ 223
      KP is the third best player still on his rookie contract in the entire NBA. How is that not potential superstar. He might not develop but right now after Towns and Jokic he has the highest potential of any player on his rookie contract.

    178. KnickfaninNJ

      I think the Jazz now need a small forward, so what about Kuz for Exum. I know it doesn’t move the needle much, but it helps both teams.

    179. Brian Cronin

      I think the Jazz now need a small forward, so what about Kuz for Exum. I know it doesn’t move the needle much, but it helps both teams.

      I don’t like Exum, but Kuz is pretty useless, as well, so sure. Exum could surprise.

    180. Brian Cronin

      Noah shouldn’t play much, Melo will most likely be gone. It is okay if our young team has a couple older players on it if the core is developing together.

      Our core is Frank, KP and Willy. Maybe one of our other young players like Baker or Dotson or Labeyrie (if he joins) or Randle or Smart (if we trade for him) will develop into a long term rotation player. Then take team oriented veterans like Lee and O’Quinn and add a player or two in their prime like Crowder and we have something that we can keep together for the forseeable future. We don’t need all 8 rotation players to be under 25. What we need is stability of all ages around the 3-5 young players that we are grooming to be our core.

      So you’re talking about if they trade Melo? Then sure, if they trade Melo and KP, Frank and Willy are somehow still good enough to win 40 games, fair enough. That’d be fine. Tanking in this situation just means not adding any veteran “win now” guys. If the young guys surprise you and do well, then sure, that’s fine.

    181. Bruno Almeida

      @225

      I don’t think that says much to be honest, all it says is that the last 2 drafts were pretty bad… who’s even in the discussion? Myles Turner is the only name I can think of that makes sense, unless we count dudes like Booker or Simmons before he played his first game.

      being the 3rd best player out of 2 extremely underwhelming draft classes is not indicative of superstar potential at all, production is. Towns and Jokic are probably already superstars because they produce like superstars, not because we like to think they are. (and to be fair only Jokic has produced like a no doubt superstar while Towns has had his up and downs).

      my line of reasoning is that if KP has that much potential he’ll reach superstardom even if the team sucks, and it will win more games because of it. If the Knicks win 40 games because KP becomes great, Im fine with not tanking.

    182. Ntilakilla

      KP is the third best player still on his rookie contract in the entire NBA. How is that not potential superstar

      Melo/Bosh were the third best players in the 2003 draft. Neither one had enough firepower on their original teams to win a title.

    183. Ben R

      The only “win now” guy I want is a quality PG. I wanted Hill, especially at the price the Kings got him for, I would love Teodosic, I would have loved Rubio. Other than that I want to focus this season on KP and Willy and Frank (though to a lesser extent since he is so young). I just don’t like the idea of starting terrible players to try and actively tank. We need to try and make our youth the focus, and win as many games as possible at least until February or March. We have our prize, lets stop buying lottery tickets and start planning our future.

    184. Bruno Almeida

      I mean, I dont think myself or Brian are advocating starting players you know sucks to lose more, I’ve been saying how much I hate the Waiters / Rondo rumours precisely for that reason. I’m sure Waiters chucking 22 balls per game would bring a lot of losses to the Knicks.

      but all the quality PGs are already gone, it’s over, and there’s no real possibility right now that the Knicks will acquire one unless they give up some of their paltry young assets or picks.

      so it’s not about wanting to lose, it’s about focusing on what the youngsters can do and not going for veterans that don’t fit their timelines, and being fine with the probable huge amount of losses that’s coming from this process.

    185. Ntilakilla

      Look, the plan should be to roll with our young core group dominating the minutes. For one thing, it allows us to see how our youngsters like KP, Willy, and Frank are coming along. For another, if they show a regression or plateau then we’ll need to tank and pick up more game changing talent like a Doncic.

    186. KnickfaninNJ

      I’m not thrilled with Exum either. He’s been a disappointment for me actually. But they are both only signed for next year, so they each get a new chance to do something good. I think its fair for both teams.

    187. Ben R

      We don’t need a great PG but we at least need one. Bad, good, mediocre. One PG. One player that doesn’t crumble the first time the other other team decides to press. Randle couldn’t hack it against journeymen in summer league, Ntilikina wasn’t a PG in Europe and in the U18 tournament he averaged 5 tos per 40 because he couldn’t handle pressure against u18 players in Europe.

      That leaves Baker as the only player who can maybe handle Beverley hounding him all the way down the court. That is a scary prospect.

    188. DS

      Tatum scores 23 on 10-18 shooting. I don’t think Danny’s giving up Jae Crowder but dude seems to have 4 solid small forwards right now.

    189. JK47

      If KP is going to be a good player, it’s going to be because he becomes a lethal PnR, PnP player. And that shit ain’t happening with Ron Baker and Chasson Randle running the other half of the PnR.

    190. Brian Cronin

      Tatum scores 23 on 10-18 shooting. I don’t think Danny’s giving up Jae Crowder but dude seems to have 4 solid small forwards right now.

      Tatum has got to be a small ball 4, though, no?

    191. BigBlueAL

      Only contract I’ve seen signed so far that I don’t see why the Knicks couldn’t match or slightly pay more for was Collison going to the Pacers for just 20m over 2 yrs.

    192. Bruno Almeida

      Jokic has played with Mudiay and 34 year old Jameer Nelson his entire career, and he’s a superstar.

      I get that he’s a different player than KP and has a different skill set, but it’s not like having a decent PG should be 100% a requirement for a 7-footer who’s extremely talented to develop into a superstar.

      It’d be nice to have one, sure, but if the option is giving away an asset for one, or overpaying a mediocre veteran, I’d still say no.

    193. Ntilakilla

      If KP is going to be a good player, it’s going to be because he becomes a lethal PnR, PnP player. And that shit ain’t happening with Ron Baker and Chasson Randle running the other half of the PnR.

      Frank Ntilikina.

    194. Ntilakilla

      Gobert, Crowder, Rubio.

      The Jazz may have the best defensive squad in the game.

    195. Bruno Almeida

      according to the Daily News the Knicks have reached out to Rajon Rondo, no meeting scheduled yet… come on Magic, you can’t lose him too right?

    196. Ntilakilla

      It would be hypocritically hilarious if Magic signs Rondo after trading D’Angelo Russell to the Nets because what the Lakers “needed was a leader.”

    197. DS

      I like that for the Jazz…

      Is it even a good deal for the Celtics anymore? I mean, I know it is, but much less so.

    198. ptmilo

      I don’t understand these sign and trade Crowder rumors. Are you telling me they can’t get someone to give something for Crowder on his contract? Zach Randolph just got 2/24. Take KOQ.

    199. Accidentank 2017

      Strategically you’d rather have a player like Jae Crowder out of conference rather than on a team you play 4 times a year. I don’t expect Steve Mills to be able to get anything out of Danny Ainge.

    200. Z-man

      If we renounced Rose, couldn’t we just take Crowder on for “cash considerations?”

    201. ptmilo

      Btw it’s going to be the perfect denouement of the Bargnani trade when Jonah Bolden becomes a good player

    202. Ben R

      More Rondo to the Knicks rumors. I really hope not.

      We should trade O’Quinn and a top 20 protected 2018 pick that turns into a 2nd rounder for Crowder. That way Boston looks like they got a good haul and we don’t actually have to give up a 1st.

    203. JK47

      Jokic has played with Mudiay and 34 year old Jameer Nelson his entire career, and he’s a superstar.

      Jameer Nelson is the exact kind of “Josh McCown” PG that I’ve been advocating for the Knicks to acquire. He had a decent season last year for Denver, and was a better player by almost every metric than our own head-down, drive-to-the-basket-and-throw-up-a-prayer PG Derrick Rose. And he is sure as fuck about one million times better as a PG than Ron Baker and Chasson Randle.

    204. DS

      More Rondo to the Knicks rumors. I really hope not.

      Dolan probably thinks that it would be vindication for all the criticism we received for drafting Balkman ahead of him.

    205. JK47

      Actually, looking at their B-R and Boxscore Geek pages, D-Rose and Jameer were roughly of equivalent value and had fairly similar seasons, but Rose’s value came more from his scoring while Nelson’s came from his facilitating. Nelson can shoot the 3 and Rose can’t, and Nelson racks up more assists.

      A low-usage, pass-first PG who can punish PnR defense by hitting an occasional 3-pointer and who can make reasonably good decisions with the ball would help KP’s development a lot. Downgrading from Rose to guys like Randle and Baker who have no business playing PG in the NBA is not going to help.

    206. Bruno Almeida

      I agree UK, but I just don’t see such a player in the market right now… hell, Id take a Chris Duhon right now.

      I still think the best possible solutions for this are either Ramon Sessions or Sergio Rodriguez, in fact I like Sergio a bit more since hes a better 3 point shooter.

      my argument about Jokic is that KP should be able to still develop with scrap heap PGs or downright bad ones, like Jokic did.

    207. Z-man

      Rondo over Rose is a no-brainer. Rondo may be petulant, but he’s an extremely high-IQ player. Marginally plus BPM/VORP stats as well.

      Rondo is not my cup of tea, but it’s better than a cup of hemlock.

    208. Z-man

      Mitchell is NBA ready, but he has a sophomore year under his belt. Not fair to compare him to Fultz/Ball/Ntilikina/Fox yet. But he definitely looks good!

    209. JK47

      my argument about Jokic is that KP should be able to still develop with scrap heap PGs or downright bad ones, like Jokic did.

      I agree, basically. Baker and Randle are sub-scrap heap though. Those guys are replacement players.

    210. Z-man

      Agree on Randle for now. Baker is another story. He’s an EXTREMELY high IQ player with an outstanding work ethic. He’s hopefully Jeff Hornacek 2.0 (see: Jeff Hornacek career arc). I’m not convinced that he’s a replacement level player yet.

    211. Ben R

      I actually think both Randle and Baker have a shot as fringe rotation journeymen. The problem with both is we’re trying to make them into PGs. Randle can shoot and has decent athleticism that gives him a shot to stick somewhere. Baker has a high motor and high IQ. If he can make shots he could turn into an okay player. BOth are defeinitely 2 guards though.

    212. JK47

      Baker was 23 years old last year and was rather hapless. Maybe there are players who turned out to be good despite posting a negative WS48 as a 23-year old, but there can’t be very many.

    213. danvt

      I have to say, Rondo on a one year deal makes sense to me. I’m totally willing to be talked out of it, though. Jowles? Kurylo? Cronin? What’s up?

      He would have beaten BOS had he not busted his thumb. (He obviously craves embarrassing them which is fun.) 40% from the field last year is not in line with his career #s and he does not look to shoot much. He hunts assists. He plays defense. He really would be good for Frank to learn from. He would get shots for KP.

      He’s the only veteran I would think would be a difference maker at this point. I’m not scared of his personality. Just don’t overpay or over extend.

      You guys want a Josh McNown or whatever? Sessions? Mack? That makes no sense at all. Better to keep the cash in your pocket. The only thing is the fear that we lose every game by like fifty. We need some kind of NBA ready PG. Of course, we drafted Frank 8th, to be that.

      I just think, if you go for a veteran, get someone who’s actually interesting to watch and who might be the mentor and distributor that you need.

    214. Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada

      Count me in on Rondo–maybe he’s the right guy to drive Rambis out of town lol (mostly joking.) I doubt he’ll conflict w Hornacek as much as he will w Melo given that Rondo likes holding the ball to find assists.

      He’s also a great mentor to young players by all indications

    215. Ben R

      Rondo does not play defense, at least not consistently and he is a coach killer who breeds dischord in locker rooms. Dallas couldn’t get rid of him fast enough and Chicago almost bought him out at the trade deadline.

      In the perfect situation he can still be a productive player but we should be more interested in building something cohesive than bringing in a player that might bring wins but also might poison the well. If we were a Rondo away from the 2nd round of the playoffs that risk might be worth it but as is I don’t think so.

      I still think we should swoop in on Teodosic before the Clippers sign him. 3 years 27 million and the chance to start in NY.

    216. BigBlueAL

      Someone on Twitter posted a stat comparison between Rondo passing to Mirotic for 3pters and Rose to KP for 3pters. Wish I could find the tweet, it was something like in about 200 fewer possessions Rondo passed to Mirotic for 3pters almost double the amount of times Rose did to KP.

    217. Bruno Almeida

      yeah I’m with Ben on Rondo, he’s obviously better than what the Knicks have but he’s not worth the risk.

      I still think its insane that because he got injured in the playoffs he’ll get paid this off-season. Boston was a vastly superior team which would have won that series with Rondo or without him, but the fact that he got injured while it was 2-0 still made him look like a saviour or something. One of the most timely injuries I’ve seen in a while.

    218. Ben R

      I get that rondo is better than rose. If those are the only choices then rondo by a mile but I’d take the best unsigned d-league pg over either.

    219. nygrec

      Damnit! Wake up Knicks. Crowder + Smart for KOQ and a 2022 first. Ainge will agree on the spot. And we get a young PG to test the waters for the future and a reliable SF to get us rid of the Melocancer.

    220. #fireRambis

      here we go again.. don’t trade first round picks unless it’s Lebron James or something lol

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