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Thursday, June 22, 2017

Knicks Morning News (2017.06.17)

  • [NYPost] Ron Baker knows what Knicks need — now will he be back?
    (Friday, June 16, 2017 8:32:36 AM)

    Ron Baker has heard reports of president Phil Jackson’s intentions to select a guard/wing in Thursday’s NBA draft. The Knicks’ blond rookie revelation hopes it turns into a prospect with a nose for defense. “Obviously I think our defense was not very good last year,’’ Baker told The Post in a phone interview this week….

  • [NYPost] Derrick Rose seems desperate to return to Knicks
    (Friday, June 16, 2017 7:32:05 AM)

    Derrick Rose and the Knicks seem to be lowering their expectations at just the right time to reignite their marriage. While recovering from another knee surgery this offseason, Rose is back to exploring free agency and hoping to find a team that will take a chance on his injury-prone body. Rose and his agent, B.J….

  • 86 comments on “Knicks Morning News (2017.06.17)

    1. bockadoo

      We’re not really considering Rose are we? The only reason I could see it would be For tanking purposes. If we can get one of Portland’s late first rounders, I’d love to snag Jordan Bell.

    2. ess-dog

      Man if I’m Boston, I’d turn around and trade the 3 for Sacto’s 5 and 10 to try and get Isaac and Collins, then you have your front court of the future once CLE and GS start to wind down. And they can still improve their current starters through free agency.

    3. DS

      19 year-old point guard “likes” on twitter a report that Magic Johnson is in love with his game?!?!

      You mean he didn’t scroll past it?!

    4. Reub On Our Way To Greatness

      Josh Jackson is flawed as shown by his poor shooting in recent workouts. Same for Ball and Fox. And who really knows about Fultz? In this draft picks one through about ten are interchangeable.

    5. d-mar

      Ainge is being pretty smart, if he thinks Jackson is their guy and will definitely be there at the #3 pick, why not trade down and grab some more assets?

      Not sure some other GM’s would think this way, including a certain master of Zen.

    6. DS

      Ainge is being pretty smart, if he thinks Jackson is their guy and will definitely be there at the #3 pick, why not trade down and grab some more assets?

      Dude’s really smart. By the end of the summer his assets may very well include [*sigh*]:
      – Gordon Hayward
      – IT4
      – Horford
      – Crowder
      – Jackson
      – Jaylen Brown
      – Lakers’ 2018 pick
      – Nets’ 2018 pick
      – Clippers’ conditional 2019 pick
      – Grizzlies’ conditional 2019 pick
      – Their own 2019 pick
      – Two draft-and-stash first rounders from 2016
      – Smart, Amir, Bradley, Olynyk

    7. stratomatic

      How would people feel about trading next year’s first round pick for another first round pick this year instead?

      Let’s say the Knicks really like Ntilikina, but they also really like Luke Kennard, Donavon Mitchell, Malik Monk, Justin Jackson, Dennis Smith etc… I don’t know who it might be, but let’s say they have their eyes set on someone else besides Frank.

      If they feel strongly (Gaines is on board) they can solve both backcourt positions or a guard and SF position long term this year with some combinations of 2 players, does it make sense to trade away next year’s pick to go after the extra player they want now.

      I’m not certain anyone would be interested in that trade or what we might have to give up besides next year’s pick to get what we need now, but if we did find ourselves in the position to get 2 players we want should be pull that lever?

      What I am thinking is that we be able to get another pick via trade or by taking on a bad contract, but it may not be a good enough pick to get what we really want/need. We may also have an opportunity to trade a future asset for a current asset instead or also.

    8. Z-man

      Nyet to trading 2018 1st for a pick this year. Who knows, it could turn out to be the first overall pick. We are likely to be real bad.

    9. stratomatic

      Nyet to trading 2018 1st for a pick this year. Who knows, it could turn out to be the first overall pick. We are likely to be real bad.

      That would be a risk to us, but we could also get an upside surprise from KP, WH, a trade, or a free agent and make or just miss the playoffs and the pick be worse than the one we get this year.

      So both sides would try to mitigate that risk.

      The Knicks could make it top 4 protected (or something like that) and the trading team would want more than just our pick for next year to compensate for downside risk and giving something away in the present to wait until next year.

    10. stratomatic

      There’s a picture floating around on Twitter of Porzingis, Hernangomez and Rubio hanging out together in Barceloa. It’s probably just be a tease, but it’s clear these guys like each other and WANT to play together. If Rubio’s agent pushes for it, KP and WH push for it, it’s on Phil to get it done on acceptable terms.

    11. mase

      we have enough pieces to get another pick this year and keep our first next year… we need something to look forward too in case all else fails.

    12. stratomatic

      we have enough pieces to get another pick this year and keep our first next year… we need something to look forward too in case all else fails.

      We don’t really know that yet, but assuming it’s true, the scenario I am laying out is one where maybe we can get another pick, but it’s not a good enough one to get the player we actually want. To get the player we want, we’d have to give up next year’s pick.

      It’s not like in the past where we’d be giving up a pick for an aging veteran or something like that. We’d be swapping the timing of two picks. Instead of next year, we pick this year. If anything, picking this year is more valuable partly because this draft has so many players that fit out needs, but partly because in economics/finance in general getting something of equal value now instead of in the future is an advantage.

    13. mase

      i get your logic but we have a large ‘to-do’ list …
      1. trade melo
      2. trade melo
      3. trade melo

    14. Reub On Our Way To Greatness

      This is a nice article on some fairly promising non-lottery point guards, some of whom will definitely be available at pick #44:

      http://dailyknicks.com/2017/06/17/new-york-knicks-non-lottery-point-guards-2017-nba-draft/?utm_campaign=FanSided+Daily&utm_source=FanSided+Daily&utm_medium=email

      Jawun Evans, Frank Jackson, Frank Mason, Monte Morris, Kobi Simmons, Edmond Sumner (who we just worked out), Derrick White and Nigel Williams-Goss are all on the list. Some of them are fairly intriguing.

    15. DRed

      the only way to me it would make sense to trade next year’s pick is if it were for a pick above ours, and I don’t see anyone making that deal. Even if we draft really well, the guys we pick aren’t likely to be very impactful next season, and that means we’re an injury or two away from a disaster of a season, and I don’t want to risk losing a high lotto pick for, I dunno, the 14th pick in this draft.

    16. Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada

      I’d only trade next year’s pick in a trade up situation for Ball

      That’s about it

      Also, next year’s draft is very top heavy, and I’m risk friendly, so I want that ~10% chance of us getting a top 3 pick next year–Doncic looks on another level

    17. ess-dog

      Speaking of, with Jerry West joining the Clips, that can’t help a possible Melo trade because he’s, you know, not an idiot. I guess Paul could still demand it, but Cleveland is more likely now.

    18. Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada

      Derrick Rose would be fine at the minimum in a productivity sense, but he does not belong on this basketball team after what happened last year. I would be mad if he paid the Knicks to be on the team

    19. JK47

      If this team re-signs Derrick Rose, I don’t want to hear any nonsense about “team basketball” and “system basketball” and all of that crap. At that point Phil would have had a year-long look at Derrick Rose’s head-down, no-passing ass and decided “yes, I want another year of that.”

      Derrick Rose sucks.

    20. Z-man

      Rose could be a good 15-20 minute backup pg on a contender. He is certainly better than Deron Williams.

    21. ClashFan

      Totally agree on Rose. Not even at the minimum: hopefully he gets renounced in July.

      RE trading next year’s first rounder, I’d do it for a top 10 pick this year only. But who would be willing to do so? Maybe Sacramento for its #10? I’d certainly do it for any pick in the top 7.

      Rather than do that, however, I’d try real hard to get the #12 from Detroit or #15 from Portland. In both cases, you have to take on a bad contract, but retain next year’s #1 pick that could easily be in the top 10.

    22. kevin5318

      I’d be fine with Rose as a cheap 6th man. Problem is he would never accept that role.

    23. Reub On Our Way To Greatness

      By this time next week our beloved team will have 3 more potential superstars. If not more.

    24. danvt

      Rose and Melo should no longer take shots away from other players. That’s why it’s probably better to pay Melo to go away.

      Hard to see the Celtics awash in riches and we have an Arod situation. We even alienated Kristaps. When will our luck change? Never? As long as Dolan is owner? I mean, this guy kills smart people. Donnie Walsh was disgraced. D’Antoni run out of town. Phil looks like an idiot. Why? He had to appease Melo. Why? Dolan.

      PS. Don’t trade picks. The only good news right now is that we have our picks.

    25. JK47

      I will again remind everybody that Derrick Rose left the team in the middle of the season and didn’t even tell anybody where he went, and people thought he might sort of be dead or something for 24 hours. So in terms of #changetheculture, that might not be a guy you want around, even as a 15 mpg backup. And that was the year he was on his best behavior, playing for his big free agent contract. I shudder to think at the lack of effort the guy would show if he was on like a 3/24 contract or something.

      Also, he ended the season the same way he ends every season, with season-ending knee surgery.

    26. Jack Bauer

      Get Rubio, keep KP and WH happy while giving us fans some decent hoops to watch for a change.

      Do Not resign Rose under any circumstances, we have seen more than enough.

      What worries me the most is that the Knicks have such a putrid history of drafting. Let’s hope Phil is as smart as he’s supposed to be.

    27. thenoblefacehumper

      Hard no on trading any future picks for anyone but Ball or Fultz. Phil Jackson will presumably still be running the team next year, so it will almost certainly suck balls.

      And yeah, it’s depressing watching the Celtics and Philly try and figure out what they’re going to do with their embarrassment of riches while we agonize about the 8th pick.

    28. Brian Cronin

      Agreed on not dealing next year’s pick for anyone outside, like, a top two pick this year (which no one would do, of course). Unless you’re getting a tip top pick, shitty teams should not trade future first rounders.

    29. Reub On Our Way To Greatness

      Draftexpress and tankathon both have us selecting with Ntilikina, Smith and Collins on the board. What would you do?

    30. Accidentank 2017

      Philly and Boston will be in our rear view in a couple years. The triangle + KP and Willy will be all we need.

      But in all seriousness Willy and KP and the best two young players in the division when you consider injury risk and production. It’s going to take more than acquiring picks; they have to draft well. Philly has drafted well but their guys don’t stay healthy. Boston hasn’t drafted well (although I’m already starting to think Jaylen Brown will develop into a really good two way wing and that we should trade Melo for him straight up).

    31. Reub On Our Way To Greatness

      Ntilikina played today in the championship series:

      8 points 3/10 shooting 1/4 from 3, 1 assist, 1 steal, 1 block, 3 fouls, game high +7 +/-, in 24 mins

      He made some errors but led his team in +/- and the opponent went on an 11-0 run right near the end of the game with Frank on the bench, costing them the game.

    32. Accidentank 2017

      So get this dumb shit:

      Stephen A Smith is saying that Philly wants to trade up from the #3 pick to the #1 pick so they can draft Josh Jackson. Josh Jackson is the consensus #3 prospect in this draft. I tell you if Fultz falls to the #3 pick and Boston gets to select him anyway I might scream.

    33. swiftandabundant

      If Jackson is their man and they’re worried The suns might grab him at #2, then trading up for him makes sense for them. Fultz is the clear #1 in this draft but its not like the gap between him and the next 6 to 8 prospects is THAT huge. This isn’t a LeBron type draft where Fultz is clearly a superstar. Even he has his flaws. I wouldn’t trade up like that but if they want Jackson then it makes sense for them.

      This draft is considered to be very top heavy in the first 8 or so spots (gulp). Fultz is the consensus #1 and ball is the #2 but I wouldn’t say they’re place in the top 2 is so etched in stone.

    34. Brian Cronin

      It doesn’t matter if he’s “their man” if he’s not worth trading up for. Fultz is worth trading up for, because he’s a clear stud. Josh Jackson is not. Jackson is fine, and I could see trying to take him over Ball, but not over Fultz and not when you’re dealing top assets to get him.

    35. Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada

      Jackson is probably the most overrated prospect in this draft if the models are right–which doesn’t mean he won’t be a good player

      I haven seen him above 7 in any model and he’s consensus #3

    36. heavencent35

      With all negativity with our team, I might opt to go all out support for Phil and triangle. For the rest of his contract let him get his players and play the way he wanted. Just maybe it will works. Draft picks will be there if it didn’t. We deserve to try this than settle for ISO marbury ISO Melo ISO Harrington and whoever which we know a sure failure.

    37. lavor postell

      Melo needs to fuck off. Phil deserves to be fired, but Melo was an embarrassment last year who the media fawned over because of how he “carried himself in a tough situation”. Please.

      When you get paid $26m/yr ou need to be held to a higher standard than handling a tough situation well. He regressed as a passer and rebounder. His defense was apathetic to flat out non-existent and I’m fairly certain he didn’t sprint once all year, which led to at least 2-3 gimme buckets every night just from his opposite number running hard down the floor.

    38. Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada

      I don’t like how Phil treated Melo but I think that’s an independent issue from Melos extremely shit attitude and play

    39. DS

      Stephen A Smith is saying that Philly wants to trade up from the #3 pick to the #1 pick so they can draft Josh Jackson. Josh Jackson is the consensus #3 prospect in this draft. I tell you if Fultz falls to the #3 pick and Boston gets to select him anyway I might scream.

      Just my opinion, but I would go ahead and ignore Stephen A. Smith.

    40. stratomatic

      I don’t think Phil is in all out tank mode so I keep coming back to the same questions.

      1. We need a starting PG, but IMO it’s unlikely Frank will be ready to start right out of the draft & I don’t think he’s a PG right now anyway

      2. If we trade Melo and let Rose walk, we will need another scorer or we are going to be terrible.

    41. nicos

      NZEULIE FOR THE WIN AT THE BUZZER pic.twitter.com/S81IJLoLYw— Sportando (@Sportando) June 17, 2017

      Frank misses the wide open game sealing jumper and then lets the opposing player beat him in transition for the winning bucket. Someone get this tape to Phil- Frank’s clearly a loser!!!

    42. GoNyGoNyGo

      I am convinced that Melo gets traded … at the trade deadline if we bench him.
      I am convinced that the Celtics, Raptors and Sixers are going to make the Atlantic a very strong division.
      I am convinced that the Cavs will add another star and will dominate the Eastern Conference.
      I am convinced that the Knicks and Nets will remain doormats.
      I am convinced that KP will play out his contract and leave and take Wily with him.
      I’m an optimist.

    43. thenoblefacehumper

      Has Isaac worked out for the Knicks yet? If not, that’s fucking negligence. He almost definitely won’t be there but it’s not impossible and you never know what calls you’re going to get on draft night.

      Glad they’ve found the time to ask random no names with bad college numbers a million questions about the triangle, though.

    44. geehee

      This is a nice article on some fairly promising non-lottery point guards, some of whom will definitely be available at pick #44:

      http://dailyknicks.com/2017/06/17/new-york-knicks-non-lottery-point-guards-2017-nba-draft/?utm_campaign=FanSided+Daily&utm_source=FanSided+Daily&utm_medium=email

      Jawun Evans, Frank Jackson, Frank Mason, Monte Morris, Kobi Simmons, Edmond Sumner (who we just worked out), Derrick White and Nigel Williams-Goss are all on the list. Some of them are fairly intriguing.

      I would love to get one of Portland’s pick and get Jawun Evans. There is a lot of love for Frank Mason and I wouldn’t be surprised if he’s gone before our pick. Edmond Sumner is interesting though.

      I don’t like Frank Jackson (aka. Rose 2.0). Too many similarities.

    45. bobneptune

      I am convinced that Melo gets traded … at the trade deadline if we bench him.
      I am convinced that the Celtics, Raptors and Sixers are going to make the Atlantic a very strong division.
      I am convinced that the Cavs will add another star and will dominate the Eastern Conference.
      I am convinced that the Knicks and Nets will remain doormats.
      I am convinced that KP will play out his contract and leave and take Wily with him.
      I’m an optimist.

      My God…. if I read another post like this I am going to shoot myself. My friend, you need to read the optimist’s creed:

      nobody loses all the time e.e. cummings

      i had an uncle named
      Sol who was a born failure and
      nearly everybody said he should have gone
      into vaudeville perhaps because my Uncle Sol could
      sing McCann He Was A Diver on Xmas Eve like Hell Itself which
      may or may not account for the fact that my Uncle

      Sol indulged in that possibly most inexcusable
      of all to use a highfalootin phrase
      luxuries that is or to
      wit farming and be
      it needlessly
      added

      my Uncle Sol’s farm
      failed because the chickens
      ate the vegetables so
      my Uncle Sol had a
      chicken farm till the
      skunks ate the chickens when

      my Uncle Sol
      had a skunk farm but
      the skunks caught cold and
      died and so
      my Uncle Sol imitated the
      skunks in a subtle manner

      or by drowning himself in the watertank
      but somebody who’d given my Uncle Sol a Victor
      Victrola and records while he lived presented to
      him upon the auspicious occasion of his decease a
      scruptious not to mention splendiferous funeral with
      tall boys in black gloves and flowers and everything and
      i remember we all cried like the Missouri
      when my Uncle Sol’s coffin lurched because
      somebody pressed a button
      (and down went
      my Uncle
      Sol

      and started a worm farm)

    46. Cock Jowles, An Intriguing Physical Specimen with a High Ceiling

      I’m on vacation in the Mission in SF right now (celebrating booze, sunshine and good team basketball), but make no mistake: if you think Derrick Rose could be a good pickup for a “discount,” or that he could play a Deron Williams-like role on a “contender,” or that you think he’s not a washed-up hack gang rapist, please push in all your chips in this thread so I only have one to bookmark.

      So fucking stupid I can’t see straight. Stop.

    47. Donnie Walsh

      Stephen A Smith is saying that Philly wants to trade up from the #3 pick to the #1 pick so they can draft Josh Jackson.

      Why read Stephen A Smith when you can read Woj? (He says Fultz is going to Philly today for a physical to finalize the trade).

    48. Accidentank 2017

      I’m scared shitless about Markelle Fultz teaming up with Ben Simmons and Joel Embiid. That would be worse than Fultz to Boston because Boston doesn’t really have a concrete future. But Fultz, Simmons, and Embiid all have All-NBA potential, and playing those guys 4 times a year would be hell.

    49. Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada

      Uh, Markelle Fultz isn’t worth this much unless the protections are really good:
      Sources: For top pick, Sixers planning to send Celtics ’17 No. 3 overall pick, ’18 FRP (via LA) and ’19 FRP (via Kings) – w/ protections.

    50. Accidentank 2017

      Trade confirmed. The Celtics get pick #3, the Lakers 2018, and the Kings 2019 pick with protections according to Wojnarowski.

      The Celtics could return to the Eastern Conference Finals and pick twice in the top 5 next year. How is this not worse than Kevin Durant signing with the Warriors in free agency again? Incompetent GM’ing is doing way more damage to the NBA than “super teams.”

      If the NBA wants to ensure that there is parity they would ban the trading of 1st round picks more than 3 years down the line and maintain the rule that a team must pick in the 1st round every 2 years.

    51. Accidentank 2017

      Markelle Fultz is probably the best guard prospect ever bro. He has no real weaknesses to his game, he has great size and athleticism for the position, he rates highly in pretty much every draft metric out there, and he only turned 19 last month. He’s gonna bring us a whole lotta pain provided Philly’s training staff doesn’t sabotage his career.

    52. Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada

      Markelle isn’t even the best guard prospect in this draft (Lonzo.) He’s extremely polished but sucks on d, has questions about his free throw shooting and effort level, and relies on craftiness which while he has in spades becomes exponentially more difficult to rely on in the NBA

      I think he caps out at Kyrie level productivity or a little above. Which is still really really good.

      Also: reports indicate the Celtics are working on another deal. I’d put my money on Butler

    53. Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada

      Can a Celtics team w Jimmy Butler give GSW a run for their money?

      Honestly I don’t think so

    54. Accidentank 2017

      Prove that Markelle Fultz is a bad defender. The biggest knock against him is that people thinks he coasts too much.

      Lonzo Ball has no intermediate game, struggles to create his own shot since his form is funky, and clearly struggled defensively this year against NBA level guards. Fultz is the better player.

    55. Reub On Our Way To Greatness

      Who will Boston take at 3? Might it be someone other than Jackson?

      Is it at all possible that Ball falls all the way to us?

      An inquiring mind wants to know.

    56. Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada

      I tend to discount the eye test here and go w the numbers: Ball was way more productive than every other top pick in this draft and is universally considered the top pick by the models while also having more tools to be good on defense. Ball is bad w on ball d but he has very good instincts off ball. He did however get roasted by De’Aaron but frankly that’s one of the toughest covers in the NCAA and soon the NBA

      Ball is a super unique prospect and I get why that makes people opt for Fultz but I’m willing to go all in on the kind of player he is. Ball projects to be Jason Kidd with worse defense and a 3 point shot. I’ll take that over generic checkbox (but very very good) ball dominant combo guard any day of the week.

      Counterpoint: prove to me that Fultz is *good* on d, because he’s universally acknowledged as a bad defender so the burden of proof is manifestly on those who think he’s good on defense.

    57. Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada

      Also rebounding is an important part of defense and Lonzo is an excellent rebounding guard. Better at forcing steals as well.

    58. thenoblefacehumper

      I’m apparently in the minority in thinking that giving up two legitimately great assets to move up two spots in a draft where there isn’t a LeBron or AD type at #1 is dumb (Silky too).

      I’ll repeat, this trade underscores that not trading your own picks while you toil away for three years is not a passable strategy. Phil Jackson gets an F. The teams that don’t acquire assets are getting left behind. The Wolves have had a way better pick situation than us, and they still suck largely because they never really prioritized asset collection. The number of teams that haven’t caught on to this is shrinking, and sadly the Knicks are very much still one of them.

    59. Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada

      These protections really make or break the deal tbqh.

      So if the Lakers don’t pick Lonzo…how far does he fall? To Phoenix? They already have so many guards. Sacto? I think he falls to Sacto but also Vivek loves De’Aaron. Orlando? They’re incompetent, so who knows? Minnesota? Idk? Who knows, we could even trade up for him. And if he falls and is picked, that means Isaac or Smith or De’Aaron fell, right?

      He’s top on our draft board apparently so there’s no way he could fall past us but there could be a small miracle brewing here.

    60. Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada

      Celtics will get Lakers pick if it falls between 2 and 5 in the 2018 draft, per league source. If not, the Celtics will get the Kings in ’19

      Soooo basically they’re getting the Kings 19 pick which will probably be around 10 I’d bet.

      That’s actually a fair deal for Philly I guess? I’m not sure I would’ve done it but it seems defensible. It looked like Ainge was gonna take them out to the woodshed

    61. Accidentank 2017

      https://youtu.be/ODqr6NeDpFg

      That’s a 7 minute breakdown of how Markelle Fultz plays defense. He really excels in team defense but has a tendency to get caught up on screens. You’ll see him denying Lauri Markkanen the ball, flying across court to contest an open shooter, boxing out, and all the other little things you expect to see out of a good defender. He’s not a bad defender and he plays defense with effort. He’ll even get a chase down block or two.

      Markelle Fultz is considered a bad defender because his offense is so excellent people don’t talk about his defense (and therefore people assume he’s a bad defender). It’s honestly lazy analysis and I’m certain that all of Boston, Los Angeles, and Philly know that Fultz at least be an average NBA defender. Ball is a great prospect but he is not Markelle Fultz. There is a reason Fultz has been the #1 prospect all year and that the only prospect Ball couldn’t usurp in value (because he was slated to go 10th before the season started) was Fultz.

      I’ll be the first to say it; Markelle Fultz is a Karl Towns level prospect. He’s going to tear us up for the next 10 years at least and I’m already depressed thinking about how the Knicks are going to triangle their way out of four ass whoopings a year from this kid, Ben Simmons, and Joel Embiid.

    62. DRed

      We don’t really know if Lonzo Ball has an intermediate game. He didn’t even try. He’s such a weird player. Fultz is a very good prospect who doesn’t project at being great at anything. Saying he’s the best guard prospect ever is ridiculous hyperbole.

    63. Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada

      He’s not in the same stratosphere as Towns as a prospect and was way worse than him

      Towns had one of the best college seasons ever–like AD level

      Ball also had better DBPM which isn’t an amazing proxy but it’s something

    64. thenoblefacehumper

      The protection news changes things a lot. So it’ll only be one extra pick, and very well may be the Kings’ 2019. I know they’re the Kings, but who the hell knows what will happen between now and then?

      Honestly, I would do this trade as Philly if I had Ball in mind. Not Fultz.

    65. Accidentank 2017

      There is no way in hell Lonzo Ball falls passed Sacramento. I’d be shocked if he’s not a Laker (because they clearly want to draft him considering he had a 2nd workout with them), but if he’s sitting there at pick 5 that means Los Angeles took De’Aaron Fox at 2, Boston took Josh Jackson, and Phoenix took Jonathan Isaac. Ball’s best fit is in Sacramento next to WCS and Buddy Hield, and then if Markkanen is there at 10 you’re starting to look like a team with some real firepower. Ball, Hield, Markkanen, and WCS could eventually be hell for teams to deal with, or if I’m Sacto and landed Ball, I’m rolling the dice on Harry Giles.

    66. Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada

      @73

      I’d do it for either, probably. Fultz is still really good and both are great fits for Philly. If it turns out to be a #10 pick that’s likely worth it

      But if they lose the Lakers pick next year then lol. Simultaneously: the 76ers don’t have a good opportunity to draft a PG this high quality because the upcoming PGs are p weak in 2018/19

      I think it’s a good move

    67. Accidentank 2017

      Karl Towns and Anthony Davis played on teams where they were surrounded by high school All Americans and eventual NBA lottery picks. Fultz played on a team with guys who are either going to mid level European leagues or, more likely, the American workforce. You’ll see how good Fultz is. The kid is amazing.

    68. Philmelo

      We don’t really know if Lonzo Ball has an intermediate game.

      That’s what makes Ball so intriguing. His game is so contemporary. I like that he doesn’t waste time on intermediate shots.

    69. yellowboy90

      I think Smith Jr and Fultz game mirror each other despite the size difference. If Isaac is off the board and the Knicks have their choice of Frank and Dennis I hope they go with Dennis.

      I know it want happen though so my brain is now going into it is what it is mode. I guess the next George Hill isn’t bad. If Frank is the pick they need to after Teodosic. I’d even go after him if Rubio is still on the table. Let Frank learn from two pgs that can play with other ball handlers. Teodosic shooting could make it work. Just let Rubio and Frank take the tougher defensive match up. Let Frank learn without too much pressure on him. Bring on BwoB.

    70. Reub On Our Way To Greatness

      Don’t worry about Philly. They’re born losers. That’s all they know how to do. It’s in their DNA.

    71. Philmelo

      One thing: I think we undersell Frank Ntilikina's passing vision and point guard instincts, in part b/c of his role on Strasbourg and…— Derek Bodner (@DerekBodnerNBA) June 15, 2017

      … Also because of legitimate concern that Ntilikina isn't going to turn the corner on pick and rolls. But I think his vision is undersold.— Derek Bodner (@DerekBodnerNBA) June 15, 2017

      Agreed. Big-time. Ranted about this on a recent High Upside. Filthy Frank's passing vision & instincts are terrific—his handle will improve.— Kevin O'Connor (@KevinOConnorNBA) June 15, 2017

    72. Philmelo

      If he can't attack rim and doesn't finish well, but has good vision and outside shot and decent defense – isn't he a poor man's Lonzo?— D Talone (@senortalone) June 15, 2017

      they share similarities. Different defensive profiles, though. I also think he could develop into a better p&r driver than Lonzo.— Derek Bodner (@DerekBodnerNBA) June 15, 2017

    73. Reub On Our Way To Greatness

      We shouldn’t rule out Luke Kennard as our pick. I’m guessing that Phil, Clarence and Jeff all love him as a Dragic type of guard. Perfect for our system too and will help right away.

    74. Accidentank 2017

      A taller George Hill is exactly what we need from the point guard position. If that’s Frank then sign me up yesterday.

    75. Totes McGoats

      Wow..Philly could be refreshingly good this season. I still don’t care too much for Ben Simmons at PG as opposed to bein a point forward with shooters around him, but that starting 5 that they are likely to have seems to mesh well on paper. With Fultz and Simmons in that starting 5, they only need a PG in name only. If McConnell can play consistent D, watch out.

      As far as our Knicks pick…suppose it comes down to Monk or DSJ. Who’s defense do you trust more? They both are a load on offense. Suddenly, the quality of EC backcourt play is on the rise. I kinda trust DSJ more because I’ve seen him play quality defense against PG’s..not so much with Monk. But DSJ really isn’t a fit for what Phil wants on offense. At the same time, he’s the better player. At 8, can we afford to go fit over talent? This just got even more intriguing

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