Statistical Analysis. Humor. Knicks.

Saturday, May 27, 2017

Knicks Morning News (2017.05.17)

  • [SNY Knicks] GEICO SportsNite: Draft lottery spurns Knicks
    (Wednesday, May 17, 2017 2:19:41 AM)

  • [SNY Knicks] Walt Frazier doesn’t want Carmelo Anthony to leave Knicks
    (Tuesday, May 16, 2017 9:55:44 PM)

    Former Knick and team broadcaster Walt Frazier says he doesn’t want to see forward Carmelo Anthony leave the Knicks organization, according to ESPN.

  • [SNY Knicks] Knicks land eighth overall pick in 2017 NBA Draft
    (Tuesday, May 16, 2017 6:17:58 PM)

    The Knicks were awarded with the number eight overall pick after the announcement of the NBA Draft order at the 2017 NBA Draft Lottery on Tuesday evening.

  • [SNY Knicks] Charles Oakley says James Dolan should have been fined or suspended
    (Tuesday, May 16, 2017 5:23:03 PM)

    Former Knick Charles Oakley told the USA Today For The Win podcast that James Dolan should have been suspended for his actions in a February incident that resulted in the former forward being ejected from Madison Square Garden.

  • [SNY Knicks] Knicks hoping to move in to Top 3 during tonight’s NBA Draft Lottery
    (Tuesday, May 16, 2017 9:30:03 AM)

    The Knicks are currently in the seventh slot and could drop as low as 10th — though there’s only a 0.3 percent chance of that happening.

  • [ESPN] Phil Jackson confident after Knicks fall to 8th: ‘We’re good at what we do’
    (Wednesday, May 17, 2017 12:03:45 AM)

    Phil Jackson confident after Knicks fall to 8th: ‘We’re good at what we do’

  • [ESPN] Knicks looking to cash in long-shot ticket in draft lottery
    (Tuesday, May 16, 2017 7:00:15 AM)

    Knicks looking to cash in long-shot ticket in draft lottery

  • [NYPost] ‘I’d like to see Melo stay’: Clyde Frazier goes off Jackson script
    (Tuesday, May 16, 2017 7:54:10 PM)

    Walt Frazier said he was honored that Phil Jackson tabbed him to be the Knicks’ representative on the lottery dais Tuesday, but that doesn’t mean he agrees with all the team president’s sentiments. For instance, while Jackson is campaigning to get Carmelo Anthony shipped out of town, the Knicks legend would like to see him…

  • [NYPost] NBA mock draft: Celtics grab Fultz, Lakers snag Ball and Knicks pick …
    (Tuesday, May 16, 2017 7:18:07 PM)

    The Knicks pick No. 8, the Nets pick 22nd and 27th. That’s what New York really cares about. But here is one stab at what the draft might look like after Tuesday’s pingpong-ball extravaganza. 1 – Celtics: Markelle Fultz (6-4 PG Washington) — Yup, Boston has Isaiah Thomas and Marcus Smart and Avery Bradley, but…

  • [NYPost] Knicks’ problems run much deeper than bad lottery luck
    (Tuesday, May 16, 2017 6:44:54 PM)

    Clyde Frazier did all he could. He had a crazy, loud purple and gold suit tailored and brought along his two NBA championship rings and his lucky chain. But none of it mattered after the Knicks landed in the eighth spot in the June NBA draft during Tuesday night’s lottery in Manhattan. “We were hoping…

  • [NYPost] Knicks fall in NBA Draft lottery letdown: Who’s in play now?
    (Tuesday, May 16, 2017 4:53:15 PM)

    Eight is not enough. In another hugely disappointing night for the franchise, not even legend Walt Frazier’s dais presence could prevent the seventh-seeded Knicks from falling back one slot in the NBA Draft Lottery. The Knicks will pick eighth in the June 22 draft, losing their shot at Lonzo Ball, Markelle Fultz and even Kentucky…

  • [NYPost] Relive the Knicks’ draft lottery history if you dare
    (Tuesday, May 16, 2017 10:25:15 AM)

    As Mike Vaccaro recently pointed out, little has gone right for the Knicks in the draft lottery since winning the Patrick Ewing sweepstakes 32 years ago. Though Tuesday night’s drawing could change the fortunes of the long-suffering franchise, the Knicks only have an 18.3 percent chance of landing a top-three pick, including a 5.3 percent…

  • [NYTimes] After a Grueling Series, Underdog Celtics Gird for Rested Cavaliers
    (Tuesday, May 16, 2017 12:30:20 PM)

    It took until the fourth quarter for the Celtics to pull away from the Washington Wizards on Monday night in Game 7 of the closely contested Eastern Conference semifinals.

  • [NYTimes] Warriors 136, Spurs 100: Warriors Take 2-0 Series Lead with a Blowout of the Spurs
    (Wednesday, May 17, 2017 5:01:13 AM)

    Stephen Curry scored 29 points for Golden State, and the Warriors never trailed in Game 2 as San Antonio sorely missed the hobbled Kawhi Leonard.

  • [NYTimes] N.B.A. Draft Lottery: Celtics, Already No. 1 in the East, Add Pick No. 1
    (Wednesday, May 17, 2017 2:50:52 AM)

    The Celtics finished this regular season as the top team in the Eastern Conference but had good odds in the lottery because of a 2013 trade with the Nets.

  • [NY Newsday] NBA Draft Lottery: Knicks get No. 8 overall pick
    (Tuesday, May 16, 2017 11:42:50 PM)

    The Knicks continue to be a loser in the Lottery.

  • [NY Newsday] Walt Frazier doesn’t want Carmelo Anthony to leave Knicks
    (Tuesday, May 16, 2017 10:39:00 PM)

    Walt Frazier doesn’t agree with his friend Phil Jackson’s opinion of Carmelo Anthony.

  • [NYDN] Top four prospects Knicks have their eyes on at 2017 NBA draft
    (Tuesday, May 16, 2017 9:31:06 PM)

    Who will the Knicks take at No. 8?

  • [NYDN] Knicks’ problem isn’t eighth pick, it’s the Celtics and Sixers
    (Tuesday, May 16, 2017 9:28:38 PM)

    This was the kind of night the late, great Boston Celtics patriarch Red Auerbach would have enjoyed.

  • [NYDN] Knicks draw eighth pick at NBA Draft lottery 
    (Tuesday, May 16, 2017 9:28:02 PM)

    The results are in and the Knicks will have the pick in this year’s NBA Draft.

  • [NYDN] Phil Jackson could use a little luck, but he also needs to change
    (Tuesday, May 16, 2017 7:04:14 AM)

    It was very shrewd of Phil Jackson to publicly acknowledge that he recently spoke with NBA Commissioner Adam Silver.

  • [NYDN] Charles Oakley: James Dolan should’ve been fined or suspended
    (Tuesday, May 16, 2017 6:33:46 AM)

    Charles Oakley says Adam Silver should have done more than just play a mediating role in the ongoing feud.

  • 149 comments on “Knicks Morning News (2017.05.17)

    1. Frank

      Wasn’t surprised at all last night. We had a 50% chance of getting the 6th lottery seed, and something like a 78% chance of getting the 7th pick or a top 3 pick. So math math (0.5 * 0.22) -> only 11% chance that we would end up with the 8th pick or worse, and of course it happened. This is life as a Knicks fan.

      That said — obviously you’d rather have an earlier pick than a later pick, but as far as I can tell, there are 2-3 picks that are the first tier (Ball/Fultz/Josh Jackson) and 5-6 players that all have their +’s and -‘s, and you wouldn’t be surprised if #9 ended up having a better career than #3 or #4.

      We will likely be picking between Monk, Smith, Ntilikina, and Isaac. I could be talked into any of them. Just no Markkanen even though I honestly think he’ll be a good player. I think that’s really unlikely anyway, since Phil pretty much said they’re drafting a guard or a wing.

      Re: Monk – yes of course his lack of other stats is a bit alarming, but his ability in transition and his ability to shoot with ridiculously high efficiency in multiple ways (screens, spot-ups, off the bounce) can be the foundation (or a foundation) of a good offense. Just think of how Steph’s (or Klay’s) ability to shoot with high efficiency from anywhere completely changes GS’s offense. And it’s not hyperbole to say that Monk might be as efficient as Steph. And in terms of his ability to be a PG, I think we should remember that he’s 18-19 years old and wasn’t asked to play point at UK. Curry averaged 3.6 assists/40 as a freshman while playing PG at Davidson and Monk averaged 3 assists/40 playing off-guard at UK.

      Re: Dennis Smith – agree with whoever said on the last thread that if he turns into Marbury 2.0 minus the vaseline, that is tremendous value at the #8 pick. And if you read the<a href="https://theringer

    2. Frank

      Meanwhile, I think it’s quite likely that the Sixers take Monk. He is perfect for them.

      My mock:

      1 – BOS – Fultz – no brainer
      2 – LAL – Ball
      3 – PHI – Monk
      4 – PHX – Josh Jackson
      5 – SAC – Fox – pretty good fit next to Buddy Hield
      6 – ORL – Tatum – they need shot creation
      7 – MIN – Ntilikina – I think he’s right up Thibs’s alley
      8 – NYK – Dennis Smith or Isaac. Would be happy with either.

    3. 2FOR18

      BPA. Even if it’s Zach Collins, screw it. His only weakness that I could see was foul trouble. Him, whg, and porzingis can split 96 minutes easily enough.
      Then try like hell to trade Oquinn and/or lee for a late first rounder or early 2nd and try for Juwon Evans or Frank Mason, 2 very talented pgs. Or Frank Jackson if he’s any good- I have no recollection of him even though I saw plenty of duke games.

    4. Brian Cronin

      Wasn’t surprised at all last night. We had a 50% chance of getting the 6th lottery seed, and something like a 78% chance of getting the 7th pick or a top 3 pick. So math math (0.5 * 0.22) -> only 11% chance that we would end up with the 8th pick or worse, and of course it happened. This is life as a Knicks fan.

      The second-most likely scenario for the Knicks was getting the #8 pick. They had a 20% chance of picking 8th and a 60% chance of picking 7th. I think you keep accidentally thinking that they were in the #6 spot to start, while they were in the #7 spot to begin.

    5. Frank

      The second-most likely scenario for the Knicks was getting the #8 pick. They had a 20% chance of picking 8th and a 60% chance of picking 7th. I think you keep accidentally thinking that they were in the #6 spot to start, while they were in the #7 spot to begin.

      Well, we had a 50/50 chance of getting the #6 pick (before the coin flip with MIN).

      We lost that, and then still had a 57% chance of picking #7 plus a ~20% chance of moving up into the top 3, so even after we lost the 50/50 coin flip, we had a ~77% chance of a neutral or good outcome (and a ~23% chance of moving down)

      So multiplying the probabilities –> 0.5 probability of winning coin flip with Minnesota * 0.23 of bad lottery outcome = ~11% chance of what we got…

    6. Philmelo

      My dream of a Frank Ntilikina/Luka Doncic back court is about to enter the first stages of becoming a reality.

    7. Frank

      Honestly – if we either buy out or trade Melo, and then trade Lee and O’Quinn (which is obviously what we should do), and insist on playing the triangle, we really could be pretty bad next year. We’d be starting Ron Baker, Ntilikina, Lance Thomas, Porzingis, and Willie HG. I mean, that is awful. And that’s if we don’t trade Lance also.

      But maybe the first step to actually being good.

      (would be interesting to see how much better the defense is with that lineup though. Assuming Ntilikina’s D translates (and I’m a a believer in Baker’s and Lance’s D), that’s 4 plus defenders on the court)

    8. bockadoo

      When we pick I think the BPA will be a toss-up between Frank and Zach Collins. Leaning toward Frank because better fit, but damn, Collins is gonna be GOOD. If we could trade KOQ for a late first/early second and pick up a solid point guard there, then go that way. Really sucks though that we’d have $54 million rotting on the bench in Noah.

    9. Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada

      isaac/Collins will be BPA but Isaac will be gone at 7 so really it’s a toss up between Collins Smith and Frank

      I wouldn’t hesitate picking Collins besides the fact that he furthers the logjam at C/PF. If we could ship out KOQ for a mid to late first I’d consider it really strongly.

      MSG would go up in flames though because everyone wants a PG.

    10. Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada

      It’s going to be Frank though. There’s no way it’s not going to be Frank. He’s been mentioned a lot by all the best writers as someone the Knicks are interested in, he fits in the triangle, and he fits Phil’s preferences re: guards. For better or for worse we should get used to Frank.

      If Gaines signs off on him in workouts I guess I trust it though.

      It may be possible that we’re better next year 1. If we can’t dump KOQ or Lee and 2. If Billy or KP make a leap/if purndraft picks are plus players from the start.

      Doncic will be hard to get…

    11. Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada

      @10

      Whoops meant to say “beat” rather than “best”.

    12. yellowboy90

      Just let Isaac drop to 8 please. For that to happen Philly needs to draft Monk, Orlando needs to draft DSjr, and the Wolves will need to draft Tatum.

    13. stratomatic

      @7

      I think it is VERY unlikely that Phil intends on continuing some form of all out tank.

      Something like Porzingis, Hernangomez, Crowder, Lee, and George Hill is more likely.

    14. Brian Cronin

      I think it is VERY unlikely that Phil intends on continuing some form of all out tank.

      Agreed, but we can hope for the best!

    15. Early Bird

      So multiplying the probabilities –> 0.5 probability of winning coin flip with Minnesota * 0.23 of bad lottery outcome = ~11% chance of what we got…

      only under classical statistics, Bayesians and Knicks fans knew it was 100%.

    16. Frank

      only under classical statistics, Bayesians and Knicks fans knew it was 100%.

      exactly my point lol!

      Something like Porzingis, Hernangomez, Crowder, Lee, and George Hill is more likely.

      How are we getting Crowder and George Hill again?
      Zero chance Hill is leaving Utah for our dumpster fire.
      We have literally zero to trade for Crowder, who is young and on a ridiculously good contract. It’s too bad we got Thanasis rather than Crowder in that Tyson trade. Thanks Phil!

      Re: Phil and the tank — the emerging picture out of this offseason is that Phil is no longer going to go with half measures. No more “updating” of the Triangle to fit into the spread PNR NBA. No more attempts to skip steps in free agency. If that’s what the plan is, I can get on board with that, if for no other reason than it’ll fail miserable and we can get a very good pick next year (and solidifying that Phil will leave after 2 years). And from Phil’s perspective, he should go all in. There’s nothing else left to do at this point.

    17. Cock Jowles, A Proven Scorer Who Is Worth All of His Max Contract

      Yes more native NYers to continue the tradition of great players

      Starbury, Ron Artest, Melo

    18. Brian Cronin

      So multiplying the probabilities –> 0.5 probability of winning coin flip with Minnesota * 0.23 of bad lottery outcome = ~11% chance of what we got

      Ah, gotcha! Then yes, that makes sense. And yes, it sucks. :)

    19. Brian Cronin

      My new worry is who is to say that Phil doesn’t re-up in two years? Can you even imagine?

    20. swiftandabundant

      Im glad to see that these comments today aren’t the doom and gloom of last night though I get it. It always feels like we get the short end of the stick. But 8th wasn’t the worst outcome. And while one spot can be the difference between Steph and Jordan Hill, it can also be the difference between Porzingis and Okafor.

      Frank is our destiny. The all Euro Knicks team will be the resurrection of the Knicks and system basketball in NYC. No one pick (well maybe Fultz) is going to change this franchise. There’s so much work to be done. First move is moving Melo. So until draft night we just gotta hope for the Celtics to lose to the Cavs (they will) and then the Cavs to lose to the Warriors (they most likely will). Those two things happen and then we’ll have the Clippers, Celtics, and Cavs (and also Wizards?) all looking to retool/upgrade their team this off season with Melo on the block. I don’t even care about moving Lee or KQ (yet), just move on from Melo so we can be worse in the short term but develop our young players and be better in the long term. Don’t forget we have 2 second rounders this year! If we can scout well, nail our first round pick and even just hit a single or a double with one of our second round picks, we’re gonna be fine. We got our picks going forward every year now!

    21. swiftandabundant

      I also think if we pick Dennis Smith we’re all gonna love this kid. He’s being way undervalued and I honestly think a lot of that is bc people compare him to some bad recent Knicks…Francis, Marbury and Rose. But if we pick a kid who ends up as good as those guys were in their prime (minus the egos and craziness), then we’ve drafted a VERY GOOD NBA PLAYER.

    22. Brian Cronin

      Did you all know that the Knicks’ missing second round pick this year is due to the Bargs deal? That deal is still fucking them.

    23. Frank

      To be honest, I think Dennis Smith is going to be drafted earlier than people think. He’s going to shine in those individual workouts. He’ll jump out of the gym. He’s a pretty good shooter. And the dude is super quick. I wouldn’t be surprised to see him go to Orlando or Sacramento. Even PHX shouldn’t necessarily look past him, although my feeling is they’ll take a wing like Tatum or Jackson.

      I’m torn between Smith and Ntilikina. I think we’ll probably draft Ntilikina, but remember that we’re not going to play the Triangle forever, and a PNP/PNR with Smith and Porzingis could be deadly.

    24. djphan

      the 8th pick was really bad if you wanted fox or smith…. not only being behind one spot but the team that jumped ahead was likely to go for a pg… and the kings were one of those teams…

      if you wanted monk or ntilikina then you probably don’t really care.. i’m not one of those guys…

    25. Brian Cronin

      Why did Clyde choose the King’s colors for his lucky suit?

      That banned poster was right all along! Clyde is secretly pulling the Knicks down!

    26. JK47

      We had a 20% chance of this, a 60% chance of that, an 11% chance of this… who gives a shit. We have a 100% chance of being mediocre and directionless for at least two years because Phil Jackson runs this team. Dolan’s Razor is real.

    27. Philmelo

      My favorite was the look of disappointment on Clyde’s face when he heard we were 8th. Even he’s been brought down by the dark cloud hanging over this franchise.

    28. SJK

      Smith should be the pick. Guarantee if you switched Smith and Fox’s teams last year we’d be talking about Smith as a top 3-5 pick. He’d be great value at 8.

    29. TheOakmanCometh

      If we trade Melo for future considerations rather than present value — which we should — we have a shot at the worst record in the league next year. We’ll be right there with Brooklyn and Sacramento.

      BTW, this is a good thing.

    30. stratomatic

      Don’t worry.

      1. Porzingis is going to get stronger, add a post game, improve his shot & shot selection, and improve his stamina.
      2. Hernangomez is going slim down, add an efficient mid range game, and improve his defense.
      3. Melo is going to bring back more than we are expecting in the form of a starter in his mid 20s plus other useful assets.
      4. Phil is going to make a draft night deal that lands us another 1st round pick and we are going to come away with Justin Jackson and Frank Ntilikina
      5. Phil is going to add some useful pieces on fair contracts in free agency

      I’m not worried. Everyone should be afraid of us!

    31. stratomatic

      Just a thought. Given the likely draft by Boston, Terry Rozier is probably available for trade or as part of a Melo deal. His overall stats leave a lot to be desired, but he’s looked pretty good in the playoffs.

    32. Z-man

      On a brighter note, I think Phil and his team are getting better at finding potential rotation players beyond the first round. Kuz is decent, Baker sux but is fun to root for, Ndour has potential, Randle is a good end-of-bench guard. Willy is a dynamite draft n’ stash find.

      If he could just dump Melo for a bag of balls and not re-sign Rose, and if Noah can at least become a practice and 15-20MPG player rather than a MASH unit reject, there is at least the potential that we could be a scrappy, fun-to-watch bunch, like, say, the Celts were before Isaiah Thomas went supernova. Dennis Smith Jr. seems like the most likely guy to contribute right away. But I’d be good with drafting either Isaac, Collins, or maybe even Markkanen if he can play some D, and then going for an undersized but explosive PG like Frank Mason III and an athletic wing like Iwundu or Thornwell in the second round. Then look to trade a young asset for a decent PG (Rubio?)

    33. Z-man

      This draft is also deep enough that there could be lots of undrafted players worthy of a good, long look.

    34. Z-man

      On draft night, we will be rooting hard that Monk is off the board before we pick, right? If that happens, then there’s no way Phil can totally f things up, right?

    35. thenoblefacehumper

      Isaac, Fox, and Smith would be great with the 8th pick. I’d rank them in that order but would be very happy with any of them there. Collins too but there’s no way Phil picks him so there’s no point in trying to get excited about that.

      I’m a Ntilikina skeptic, low on Tatum, and certified Monk hater.

    36. djphan

      there’s a good chance that we’ll be left picking between monk or ntilikina… the actual top 7 closely matches what some mocks project… unless we’re ready to take collins then we could be getting jordan hill’ed…

      the hope is that someone catapults which results in one of the good names falling… so someone like smith or tatum/isaac drops… and yes tatum wouldn’t be bad… at #8 you really can’t be too picky… you just have to hope someone makes a mistake…

    37. Owen

      Maybe instead of watching this, I should have just put my left testicle on a marble table and hit it with a hammer.

      Good thread last night people. This was my winner.

      I find Zack Collins sort of intriguing but I guess we can’t pick him. And with as few minutes as he played and with the Zags comp being what it was, hard to trust the numbers. He has the look of a guy who will bust but I prefer him to a guy like Markannen with bad numbers. Either way, you can’t expect much from the 8th pick. Just can’t get excited for Smith. Isaac would be amazing but that won’t happen.

      Also, I would take Ball if I were the Celts.

    38. ess-dog

      I just don’t think Phil would take a player like Smith, regardless of his natural talent. I think Ntilikina will be the pick unless Isaac somehow drops there.

    39. JK47

      For all the flaws of this front office, their international scouting has been quite good. So if they like Ntilikina, you have to give that some weight.

    40. djphan

      before you heap praise on our international scouts.. these are the same folks who thought thanasis and louis labeyrie were actual prospects….

    41. JK47

      before you heap praise on our international scouts.. these are the same folks who thought thanasis and louis labeyrie were actual prospects….

      I mean, you’re not going to hit on 100% of those, and Thanasis and Labeyrie were stab-in-the-dark second rounders. The scouts are 1-3 on longshot Euro second-rounders– that’s actually a pretty good ratio.

    42. djphan

      old and raw prospects are some of the worst bets you can make… we also passed up on jokic fwiw with our early pick…

      we did well with kp and wily… but i also know that whatever our process is to evaluate prospects isn’t too great… that goes for both foreign and domestic… i’m willing to withhold judgment after this draft… but the #8 pick and ntilikina in particular terrifies me…

    43. Hubert

      So we went from 4th to 6th with wins over Chicago, Miami, Indiana down the stretch. Then we went from 6th to 8th by rallying to beat Philadelphia on the last day, losing a 50/50 coin toss, and a team with a 9.9% chance to move up getting lucky.

      Think about this: two late season wins (one in 2015, one in 2017) is why Towns and Isaac will play for Minnesota and we’re going to have to make do with Porzingis and Dennis Smith.

    44. Hubert

      That said — obviously you’d rather have an earlier pick than a later pick, but as far as I can tell, there are 2-3 picks that are the first tier (Ball/Fultz/Josh Jackson) and 5-6 players that all have their +’s and -‘s, and you wouldn’t be surprised if #9 ended up having a better career than #3 or #4.

      Everything I’ve read indicates this is a 7 player draft. There’s a top tier (Ball/Fultz/Jackson), an extremely strong second tier (Isaac, Tatum, Fox, Monk), and a third tier of players (Smith, French PG, Markanen) that, of course, we’ll be selecting from. 8th in a 7 player draft.

      Maybe someone fucks up. With Sacramento in there, it’s hopeful. But I read they’re in love with Fox.

    45. Hubert

      Hubert, you are killing me.

      This effing franchise

      Sorry, Owen. Misery needs company.

    46. Reub On Our Way To Greatness

      @51 There’s nothing wrong with Porzingis and Dennis Smith.

      There is something wrong with all of the crazy negativity in here. You sound like a bunch of wash women.

    47. Hubert

      I think it is VERY unlikely that Phil intends on continuing some form of all out tank.

      Continuing?

      This organization, from top to bottom, including Phil, actually values late season wins. Phil put pressure on Hornacek to play the triangle and win down the stretch. And he cheered on that numpty Derek Fisher and his stupid two game winning streak that he couldn’t stop smiling about at the end of ’15.

      This isn’t bad luck. This isn’t a curse. Our organization prioritizes winning games late in the season over draft position. We actually rallied from 16 points down in the final day using all our best players and everyone in the organization was thrilled about it.

    48. JK47

      The one good thing about Monk is that if we are unfortunate enough to select him, he may very well POINTZZ his way to “star” status and maybe some future GM might be able to flip him for something decent.

    49. TheOakmanCometh

      At least Phil said last night that he knows we have enough bigs and we need guards and wings. That kind of kindergarten-level observation should be a no-duh, but with this franchise, you never know.

      So assuming he sticks to that, we at least won’t get Markannen, which would be a catastrophe.

    50. Reub On Our Way To Greatness

      This is the fallacy of tanking. Nothing is ever guaranteed. We’re better off playing hard, keeping our draft picks and playing system basketball. Just draft wisely and don’t play to lose. It’s for losers.

    51. Hubert

      We’re better off playing hard, keeping our draft picks and playing system basketball. Just draft wisely and don’t play to lose. It’s for losers.

      You’re absolutely right. In retrospect, we gained more playing hard in the D’Antoni system back in 2009 than we would have if we hadn’t won three extra games down the stretch and been able to draft Steph Curry. I change my mind. System basketball 4eva.

    52. JK47

      We’re “better off playing system basketball” only in the sense that it’s kind of funny to watch this team still have no grasp whatsoever of how to play the “system” in year four despite all of Kurt Rambis’ hollering. So, if you’re measuring by lulz, yes, we are better off playing “system basketball.”

    53. Reub On Our Way To Greatness

      Tanking is still for losers. Now some of you are ready to throw away another season just because we might get lucky with ping pong balls. That’s not how champions are built.

    54. yellowboy90

      I know people fear Smith’s ACL injury and that it may happen again but are we forgetting that this was his first year back. How many players are able to still perform at the level Smith did in their first year back from an injury like that?

    55. Reub On Our Way To Greatness

      Well we screwed up, not because we tanked, but because we didn’t tank well enough. Let’s tank better next year. And the year after. And the year after that…..

    56. Hubert

      San Antonio was built on tanking, Golden State was built on tanking… I could go on, but I get the impression you’re not serious.

    57. Hubert

      It’s not even about deciding to give up an entire season, Reub. It’s about deciding, with two weeks to go in a season that’s over, what do you value more: draft position or 4 extra wins? We’ve been in this situation so many times and we always go for the extra wins. It’s mind boggling. I don’t care if we accidentally end up with the best player in the draft. It’s stupid.

    58. geo

      Now some of you are ready to throw away another season

      i know right – you’d think us knickerbloggers would do a much better job at putting together a cohesive team, make our shots, and defend a lot better so the knicks wouldn’t suck so much next year…oh wait – just remembered – we all actually have zero impact on any outcome for the team…

      we’re doomed reub – just face it: D-O-O-M-E-D, spells doomed….

      all joking aside – i’m sure we’ll enjoy at least one or two good stretches of basketball in november/early december of next year…then we can go back to fully embracing the never ending cycle of rooting for a team that is D-O-O-M-E-D…

      however: even the sun shines on a dogs ass some days…let’s hope for an especially shiny day for our team on June 22…

    59. JK47

      I don’t think you need to finish at the top of the lottery every year to win in this league. Phil’s strategy sucks not because he doesn’t tank hard enough but because he doesn’t invest enough in the future. Joakim Noah, MegaMaxMelo and Derrick Rose is a bullshit core to try to build around. He would have been better off using the resources wasted on those three players in acquiring assets instead. We’ve been over it a million times, the ways in which he could have done this. Instead we watched the Arron Afflalos and Joakim Noahs and Derrick Williamses and Derrick Roses stink up Madison Square Garden, with no “win now” or “win later” type results.

      Collect. Assets. Can it with the mediocre veterans who are either on bad contracts or who are on short-term contracts that don’t help the team win long-term. It’s not that fucking hard. Chrissake already.

    60. MSA

      I’m in peace with the Steph Curry/Jordan Hill fiasco.

      If we had drafted Curry, he would be playing for the Rockets and I would be WAY more pissed.

      But yeah, those meaningless wins are fucking us for about a decade at least.

    61. Reub On Our Way To Greatness

      Collect assets. Whatever that means. What was Phil supposed to do with his money? Sit on it? how did signing Rose or Noah or Melo hurt our long term plans? Which assets did we sacrifice by signing them?

    62. Reub On Our Way To Greatness

      A couple of “meaningless wins” could be the difference between drafting Monk, Smith or Frank. How devastating that is to our future!

    63. JK47

      Collect assets. Whatever that means. What was Phil supposed to do with his money? Sit on it? how did signing Rose or Noah or Melo hurt our long term plans?

      Reub, don’t act like you know anything. You’re dead wrong about every single thing 100% of the time, so you really shouldn’t be arguing with people who actually know things.

      You’re so wrong about everything the only explanation of you is that you’re some sort of parody.

    64. Reub On Our Way To Greatness

      @76 Another eloquent, well thought out, fact filled response by JK47.

      So what “assets” was Phil supposed to collect? I’m still waiting.

    65. Philmelo

      we also passed up on jokic fwiw with our early pick…

      What kind of bullshit is this? Every team passed up on Jokic, even the Nuggets who didn’t draft him until the 2nd round and picked Doug McDermott before they chose him. Some of the things I read on this site boggle my mind and this one takes the cake.

    66. JK47

      how did signing Rose or Noah or Melo hurt our long term plans? Which assets did we sacrifice by signing them?

      Reub is apparently unfamiliar with the concept known as “opportunity cost.” Or at least he pretends to be unfamiliar with it, it’s kind of hard to say which.

      This is a defense of Phil we’re seeing here a lot, actually. “Well, what was he supposed to do with the money?” As if the only possible avenue available to Phil Jackson was to give out huge contracts to overrated players.

    67. Philmelo

      Why do you guys continue to shower reub with attention? He should be treated like fungus – feed him shit and keep him in the dark. I personally pass over every post with his name on it. Ya’ll should do the same.

    68. JK47

      So what “assets” was Phil supposed to collect? I’m still waiting.

      Sign and trade Melo for assets instead of signing him to a horrible NTC contract.
      Trade the still useful Tyson Chandler for assets instead of converting him into “ideal triangle PG” Jose Calderon and the dying breaths of Sam Dalembert.
      Use the Derrick Williams/Arron Afflalo cap space the way the 76ers did in the Nik Stauskas trade– acquire assets by renting out the cap space instead of one year useless deals to Afflalo and Williams.
      Trade Robin Lopez for assets instead of trading him for washed up bum Derrick Rose.
      Do anything except sign an obviously declining Joakim Noah to a horrible 4-year contract, maybe try the Nik Stauskas trick again.

      We’d be a lot further along than we are now if Phil pursued a strategy like that.

    69. Reub On Our Way To Greatness

      I feel robbed by Phil’s “opportunity costs”. Please make him stop taking away all of our “opportunities”. This team deserves more opportunities and Phil isn’t letting it happen.

    70. JK47

      Why do you guys continue to shower reub with attention? He should be treated like fungus – fed him shit and keep him in the dark.

      You know what, you’re absolutely right. My bad. I will go back to ignoring him. He is just here for the attention, there is no way anybody can be dumb enough to sincerely believe the things he says.

    71. Philmelo

      So long as Phil nails the drafts and our youngsters develop we will continue to fail forward with some kind of a core who can mature into a viable contender whenever he gets his shit together or leaves. Its going to take patience, but I do believe we’re in a substantively better position than we were when he inherited the team. Unfortunately, we’re not as far along as we should be.

    72. Reub On Our Way To Greatness

      We deserve “assets” not Melo, Rose, Willy, Noah, NDour, Holiday, Kuz, Baker etc. Is there an asset store where we can get them? Can we order them with Amazon Prime for faster delivery?

    73. Reub On Our Way To Greatness

      Building a winning team starts with a system, a plan, scouting and having draft picks. Tanking and then whining when the tanking doesn’t go our way is so childish that it’s laughable. Grow up.

    74. thenoblefacehumper

      I’ll answer Reub’s question only because it’s emblematic of a mindset that unfortunately does actually exist among Knicks fans.

      If we had made the Landry/Thompson trade with the Kings instead of signing Arron Afflalo and Derrick Williams, and the ONLY thing we asked for in return was the 2017 swap (so forget the other swap, forget Stauskas, forget the unprotected 2019 first round pick), we’d be picking third right now.

      So Reub, was that one 32 win season in which the talents of Afflalo and Williams were on full display worth giving up a top-3 pick in this draft?

    75. d-mar

      The Knicks have been in the draft lottery 10 times since the first one in 1985.

      They’ve moved up a total of 1 time (guess which year?) moved down in 5 of them and stayed put in 4 of them.

      Who says this is a cursed franchise?

    76. Cock Jowles, A Proven Scorer Who Is Worth All of His Max Contract

      So what “assets” was Phil supposed to collect? I’m still waiting.

      cap space is an asset, parody account

    77. Reub On Our Way To Greatness

      I want all my lost opportunities back. My stolen assets. My wayward ping pong balls. Woe is me!

    78. Cock Jowles, A Proven Scorer Who Is Worth All of His Max Contract

      I propose that we refer to reub as “Parody Account” from this point onward. I will happily accept him as one of us if he promises to stop trolling with each and every post he makes.

    79. RomeLives

      Just the thought of Reub being Jowels secret parody account makes the Knicks greatness and luck bearable lol.

    80. Donnie Walsh

      Tanking is still for losers.

      I think we should draft Frank “The Botched Tank” Ntilikina.

    81. Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada

      If tanking is for losers, and the Knicks failed at tanking, then what does that make the Knicks?

      Such huge losers that they cannot even lost properly?

    82. JK47

      If tanking is for losers, and the Knicks failed at tanking, then what does that make the Knicks?

      WINNERS.

      #ReubLogic

    83. ClashFan

      For those of you fearful of Monk ending up being picked by the Knicks, I think he’ll be gone before 8. I think some team is going to look at him and think, Steph Curry Lite.

    84. wetbandit

      Much like most of you, I spent the day (and last night) in a foul mood because of the stupid, stupid lottery last night. I looked at the countless tweets – including the KnicksPR account -that showed us how the last time the Knicks actually moved up in the draft was ’85. Great.

      Whatever. You don’t need the top pick to win.

      We need to really hit on the draft once. It takes more than one losing season to get a franchise-changer, a Curry, Harden, Kawhi, LeBron, Isaiah, Dirk, Kobe, MJ, Ewing. Because it takes just one generational talent to transform a team. Without Curry, the Warriors are probably perennially lose to the Spurs. Without Harden, the Rockets stink, and without LeBron, the Cavs are tanking. Look at the last few championship winners, and who they had and how high they were drafted, also think about how their team would be without them (except those inglourious basterds the Spurs)

      Cavaliers: Lebron (#1)
      Warriors: Curry (#7)
      Spurs: Kawhi (#15)
      Heat: Lebron (#1)
      Mavericks: Dirk (#9)
      Lakers: Kobe (#13)
      Celtics: Pierce (#10) + Garnett (#5)
      Spurs: Duncan (#1)

      And don’t forget the current top 8 teams who are all shouldered by a top player, like Harden (#3), Wall (#1), CP3 (#4), Westbrook (#4), Isaiah (#60), Lowry (#24)

      You don’t need a #1 to win a championship, you need to draft well, trade well, and build well. So under Phil, we may end up sucking so much we end up with a generational talent this year, next year, or the next, and then end up building. I dunno. I rambled. Fuck it, I won’t reread this, it’s making me depressed again.

    85. JK47

      It’s almost like if you have MORE draft picks, you get more of those, ahem, OPPORTUNITIES to hit it big in the draft. You could almost argue that trying to acquire these draft picks (referred to by some as “assets”) is a more worthwhile strategy than clearing out cap space and then giving it to the Arron Afflalos, Derrick Williamses and Derrick Roses of the world. Especially when you suck and you’re miles away from contending from anything.

      But then again, what did you expect Phil to do? His hands were tied. There was simply nothing else he could do but give out bad contracts to lame players.

    86. Reub On Our Way To Greatness

      Cuban should be ashamed of himself for fixing games. The League should sanction him. It is not something to emulate but rather to be shunned. The Knicks at least have their dignity.

    87. Accidentank 2017

      Dennis Smith Jr will be a great Knick so long as his body holds up. I’m so over how bad Knicks’ management is that I’m just rooting for our young corps to be great. If Smith Jr/Ntilikina, KP, and Willy Hernangomez can stay together I’d be very happy. Even if they’re overrated; I just want a team I can call my own. Smith Jr, Doncic, Hernangomez, and KP. 2019 here we come!

    88. 2FOR18

      Let’s trade the 8 to Portland for their 15 and 20, and pick 2 of 3 of OG/Kennard/Justin Jackson. Then Oquinn for a high #2 and draft Frank Mason and his 20/5/4 with 47% from 3 and a ts% of .620. He’s only 6 ft tall with shoes but has the same wing span as Smith Jr.

    89. Accidentank 2017

      I think we should definitely be looking to add one of Luke Kennard, Terrance Ferguson, and Peter Jok to play with Dennis Smith Jr. Trading out of #8 would very likely be a mistake though. One of Johnathan Isaac, Zach Collins, Dennis Smith Jr, Frank Ntilikina, and De’Aaron Fox will be available at that slot.

    90. Reub On Our Way To Greatness

      Hamidou Diallo may be our pick. He’s a hidden gem. Athletically gifted and intense on both sides of the ball.
      #newKobe

    91. stratomatic

      I tend to be a glass half empty guy, but you guys are killing me with all the doom and gloom.

      This is the current situation.

      To become a contending team, you more or less need:

      1. One elite star player (James, Durant, Curry, young Nowitski, young Wade, CP3, Harden, Westbrook, Antetokounmpo, Leonard, etc…), 2 all stars, and a solid supporting cast.

      2. Two elite star players (Jordan & Pippen, Shaq & Kobe) and a solid supporting cast

      Naturally, if you can put together a better team than that (like Golden State), you will be tough to beat, but that’s the basic formula.

      The tough part is getting that one elite star. The rest is actually fairly easy over a few years. .

      If KP can develop into that cornerstone elite player, the Knicks are NOT positioned poorly. We at least have a young prospect for that.

      1. There is some chance Willy Hernamgomez will develop into a marginal all-star level player given his rapid progress last year and age.

      2. There is no reason our #8 pick can’t develop into an all-star.

      3. There is absolutely no reason we can’t sign an all-star caliber player as a free agent in the future once our young players start to mature and we become a more attractive spot.

      The key is KP. If he does not break out and become the centerpiece, then we are probably going to be toiling around as a middle level playoff team a few years from now unless we get REALLY lucky in the draft. But if he does, in 3-4 years we are all but certain to be a major player in the east.

      So stop whining and start pulling for KP to break out or hope that we stumble into a real star at #8 like San Antonio did with Leonard. Here are some others: Karl Malone, Steve Nash, John Stockton, Cylde Drexler, and others. It’s not impossible.

    92. Cock Jowles, A Proven Scorer Who Is Worth All of His Max Contract

      I know everyone can’t wait the five months for Knicks basketball to sorta matter again, but is anyone out there actually watching the good basketball teams on TNT right now?

      Odds are that 6 out of the top 8 players will become career bench or fringe starter players. There will likely also be multiple All-Rookie or future All-NBA/All-Star players beyond pick 8. The problem is that you have to be real smart or real lucky to draft them.

    93. Z-man

      There is something wrong with all of the crazy negativity in here. You sound like a bunch of wash women.

      I am imagining a group of haggard women sitting around folding clothes in some coin-operated laundromat somewhere, bemoaning their lots in life, until one of them finally stands up and yells, “Stop it! Stop it! You sound like a bunch of Knicks fans!”

    94. geo

      I am imagining a group of haggard women sitting around folding clothes in some coin-operated laundromat somewhere, bemoaning their lots in life, until one of them finally stands up and yells, “Stop it! Stop it! You sound like a bunch of Knicks fans!”

      that was pure gold :-)

    95. Accidentank 2017

      The Cavs are going to smoke the Celtics. This series is a sweep and Boston won’t make Cleveland sweat.

      Reggie Miller is also a terrible color commentator.

    96. Cock Jowles, A Proven Scorer Who Is Worth All of His Max Contract

      I am imagining a group of haggard women sitting around folding clothes in some coin-operated laundromat somewhere, bemoaning their lots in life, until one of them finally stands up and yells, “Stop it! Stop it! You sound like a bunch of Knicks fans!”

      hahahaha, post of the day

    97. Cock Jowles, A Proven Scorer Who Is Worth All of His Max Contract

      That LeBron-Kyrie-Thompson play looked straight-up Warriors. It’s going to be a good Finals, even if the first three rounds have been up and down.

    98. Z-man

      So Justin Termine on the SiriusXM NBA channel was discussing trade scenarios involving KP and the Celts. He proposed (or someone else did) trading KP and Noah to Celts for their #1 pick (Fultz).

      Celts would get a stretch 5, move Horford to the 4, pursue Hayward for the 3, and keep their backcourt and bench intact.

      Knicks would get the PG they covet and could draft a replacement big for KP at #8. They would have Noah’s cap space freed up, and could ditch or keep Melo, etc.

      I love me some KP, but I’d do that deal in a heartbeat. I would actually trade KP straight up for Fultz without including Noah. I actually think that would be a good trade for both teams.

    99. wetbandit

      If last night didn’t happen, tonight the Celtics would be thinking, shit, we’ll never get past the Cavs, let’s get Melo/Blake/Love.

      Now, I’m thinking they’re happy with Fultz, Brown, and whoever they get next year.

    100. Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada

      Exchanging KP and the Noah albatross for Fultz/Ball and then drafting Collins at 8 would be really good for us

      That’s never happening though

    101. yellowboy90

      I’m still hoping Denver gives up on Mudiay and calls Phil about the 8th pick for Juan Hernangomez and the 13th pick. If Isaac is off the board I’d make that deal in a heart beat.

    102. Z-man

      So, Fultz for KP, Noah and #8? I say no to that one. Maybe if the Celts throw in all 3 2nd rounders and Rozier?

    103. Accidentank 2017

      CP3, Melo, and Kawhi Leonard are going to team up in San Antonio this summer. Billy King will be banned from the city of Brooklyn at the NBA Draft. The Knicks will draft a good player and put together a good enough team to win 45 games.

      You heard it here first.

    104. Reub On Our Way To Greatness

      @123 I like your positive thinking there man. We’ll draft Diallo and watch him become the next Kobe too. You left that out.

    105. yellowboy90

      I’m still hoping Denver gives up on Mudiay and calls Phil about the 8th pick for Juan Hernangomez and the 13th pick. If Isaac is off the board I’d make that deal in a heart beat.

      T.J. McBride? @BSN_McBride

      Connelly saying that if they find a player that is impactful at 8 or 9 they will look to move up if possible.

      Just so this tweet on realgm. I now know I must speak this Juan trad into existence.

    106. Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada

      Unite the Hernangomez brothers in NY! Draft Frank or Donovan Mitchell at 13! We can do it!

    107. Reub On Our Way To Greatness

      Denver recently traded Nurcic and a #1 pick for an expiring Plumlee so they are exactly who we should be trading with.

    108. DRed

      Lebrun’s the greatest basketball player of all time. Maybe peak young Jordan was better for a few year, maybe there have been a few guys who put up seasons better than Lebron’s best (like Curry last year), but for sustained, high level excellence I’ve never seen anyone better.

    109. d-mar

      @131 his basketball ability is only matched by his ridiculous durability. The man has thousands of miles on him, yet he plays like he’s 24 years old and never gets hurt.

      My Celtics fan friend says they’re gearing up for the post LeBron era, 3 or 4 years from now. 3 or 4 years? How about 10, this guy isn’t slowing down at all and is still playing at a peak level.

    110. Accidentank 2017

      I’m only 2 years younger than Kyrie Irving (and he’s from the NY/NJ area) so I know some guys around him. I’m not sure how true this is, but I’ve heard that the supplements he takes are pretty much the equivalent of steroids. The guy takes care of his body and does whatever necessary to perform at the highest level.

      And that’s not going to stop him from getting smoked in the NBA Finals.

    111. DRed

      Boy wonder super genius tried to guard one of the 3-4 best basketball players of all time with Kelly Olynyk

    112. er

      ’m only 2 years younger than Kyrie Irving (and he’s from the NY/NJ area) so I know some guys around him. I’m not sure how true this is, but I’ve heard that the supplements he takes are pretty much the equivalent of steroids. The guy takes care of his body and does whatever necessary to perform at the highest level.

      And that’s not going to stop him from getting smoked in the NBA Finals.

      Kyrie looks like hes never touched a weight in his life

    113. Reub On Our Way To Greatness

      Ricky Rubio has hired a new agent with the express purpose of getting him the hell out of Minnesota. I believe he’s coming here because I’m an optimist.

    114. Cock Jowles, A Proven Scorer Who Is Worth All of His Max Contract

      I would trade Melo for Lavar Ball rn tbh

    115. Accidentank 2017

      Sorry I wasn’t clear in 133. I was talking about LeBron and his supplements.

    116. Brian Cronin

      I was thinking about Lebron and his “supplements” the other day. It’s sort of like an open secret that he uses “supplements” to keep his body in such peak condition, and yet if it was ever confirmed, people would be SO outraged. It reminds me of the scene in Casablanca. “I am shocked – shocked! – that there is gambling going on here.” It’s so stupid.

    117. er

      Well, if they are not illegal you cant fault the guy for training hard and taking care of himself.

    118. er

      I also had another thought about the Spurs. What if Pop worked out a deal with Parker for him to be included in a trade to the Knicks and just not play next year. Then come back to the Spurs on the staff.

      Pau+Parker for Melo

      Pau makes 16mil; Parker makes 15mil and the Knicks are free 31 mil by next offseason

      Pau can play in a metro city and tutor willy +KP

      Spurs can start

      Mills/Murray
      Green
      Kawhi
      Melo
      Dedmon

      Bring LMA off the bench and he will win 6th man

    119. er

      Thats a vastly different scenario Jowels. Parker will still get the same money and he will probably have to rehab for close to a year

    120. Accidentank 2017

      Melo for LMA is pretty fair considering LMA was bad this year and Melo is on a shorter contract. Something like Melo and Kyle lO’Quinn for LMA on draft night would be a good deal depending on what another team would be willing to give us for Aldridge. The only way Pop entertains this is if they want to go out all out and grab CP3 in the summer which would be a brilliant idea. CP3 and the Klaw with Melo as the 3rd wheel and Pop as the coach? And if Melo doesn’t work out, he’s gone at the end of the year to play with LeBron and you have $30M in cap space again to add to CP3 and Kawhi Leonard.

      I’d definitely do that deal if I were San Antonio.

    121. er

      How do you fit in CP3 under that scenario? Sign and Trade parker and Pau to the Clips?

    122. geehee

      All these mock drafts predicting Markkenen going in the top 8 – I just don’t see it.

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