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Wednesday, May 22, 2019

Knicks Morning News (2017.04.24)

  • [NYTimes] On Pro Basketball: LeBron James Issues a Timely Reminder of His Greatness
    (Monday, April 24, 2017 12:57:25 AM)

    Cavaliers sweep the Pacers, again, thanks to the return of the game’s most dangerous player: Playoff LeBron.

  • [NYTimes] Warriors Coach Steve Kerr to Miss Game 4
    (Sunday, April 23, 2017 11:21:29 PM)

    Kerr still has lingering symptoms from two back operations he had after the team won the 2015 championship.

  • [NYPost] Porzingis: ‘I love New York’ but care most about winning
    (Sunday, April 23, 2017 9:30:13 PM)

    Kristaps Porzingis will hold a press conference Monday in Latvia at the Liepaja Olympic Center to announce his official participation on the country’s national team in this summer’s European Championships. However, Porzingis recently conducted an interview in Latvian during which he gently chided Knicks president Phil Jackson and left the door slightly ajar as to…

  • [NYPost] Derrick Rose takes son to Bulls game for ‘playoff atmosphere’
    (Sunday, April 23, 2017 7:05:18 PM)

    Derrick Rose, showing up courtside in Chicago for Game 4 of the Celtics-Bulls series with his 4-year-old son, said his knee surgery has not deterred him and still is eyeing the Knicks as a future destination. The free-agent point guard played 64 games for the Knicks this season, then had arthroscopic surgery to repair a…

  • [ESPN] LeBron James averages nearly a triple-double in first-round sweep
    (Sunday, April 23, 2017 9:47:23 PM)

    LeBron James averages nearly a triple-double in first-round sweep

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    90 comments on “Knicks Morning News (2017.04.24)

    1. Accidentank 2017

      From the Post Article above:

      The Latvian magazine asked Porzingis about the Knicks’ season-long defensive woes.

      According to the translation, Porzingis said, “As a player who wants to be leader someday — when I saw things we need to change and be better at — I tried to speak up in the locker room. But there are many players used to playing this kind of basketball for more than ten years so you can’t change them. Coaches can try but it is what it is.

      It seems like Kristaps Porzingis would be a better GM than Phil Jackson and already knows Derrick Rose sucks at defense. This kid gets it.

    2. Frank

      Porzingis is throwing all kinds of shade in this article. Blasting the team president and his teammates all at the same time. And they all deserve it. It’s a little weird coming from a 21 year old but at least he works his butt off on both ends of the floor and in the offseason, which is more than can be said for Phil, Melo, or Rose. In other words, it’s ok to criticize others when you are giving it your all, unlike Phil who doesn’t bother showing up at major scouting events or returning phone calls, or Melo/Rose, who can only be bothered to play defense 5% of the time.

      What’s hilarious is the >10 years comment in that quote. That’s basically Melo and who else?

      Meanwhile, the noise around re-signing Rose makes me very nervous. This feels like a 4 year $72MM contract. 1 or 2 years at MLE$ or less would be ok I guess, especially if he really works on his 3-ball, but honestly, we need to move on from him (and players like him).

    3. er

      In other words, it’s ok to criticize others when you are giving it your all,

      Since when? Do you not remember the whole Paul George thing from like a week ago

    4. Frank

      Since when? Do you not remember the whole Paul George thing from like a week ago

      I actually don’t remember it (haven’t really been paying attention to the playoffs to be honest), but IMHO it IS ok to criticize your teammates as long as you are making yourself accountable also. That’s part of being a leader — not the ONLY way of being a leader, but it’s ok by me.

      Look, I can totally see critics of KP saying that he should keep these things behind closed doors, but at least this kid is out there working his ass off every day of the year, every offseason, never wanting a day off. he plays both ends of the court with effort. As literally every successful NBA coach has said, the work ethic of your best player sets the tone for the entire team.

      I guess Melo technically has the most power on the team in the short term because of the NTC, but KP is literally the golden goose. HE has the most power in the organization short of Dolan. And he’s using it. It’s fine with me, as long as his heart is in the right place, which I firmly think it is. He wants to win, he’s willing to work and do anything (including taking a stand) to make this team a winner.

    5. heavencent35

      I know it’s not popular but what about a cheap contract for rondo? He became underrated but it will be a beauty rondo dishing to KP and Willy all game.

    6. chrisk06811

      Not so sure I agree with the Pro-KP statements here.
      -There’s no evidence that he works his butt off on both ends of the floor and in the offseason. I’m sure he works hard, but it doesn’t seem to show up in his conditioning or his rebounding numbers. He does not demand the ball on offense. He does what a 21 year old kid should
      -Having said that, a 21 year old in his 2nd year should not be calling out his team mates and management to the press and should not be blowing off his exit. That is not what leaders do.

      I love KP, I think he will develop, I think he is mis-used. I think he can be Dirk like on Offense and a rim protector on D. But, I can’t call him a leader yet.

    7. Accidentank 2017

      KP’s ceiling is Dirk Gobert, but I think he ends up more of an Andrea Gasol combination which is a hell of a player if he’s more Gasol than Bargnani on the glass.

    8. thenoblefacehumper

      What’s interesting about Porzingis’ comments is a ton of rookies play on worse teams their first two seasons than he has. Hell, all three of the guys who went ahead of him in his own draft class have done just that. 32 and 31 wins is bad, but because Phil Jackson was (stupidly) in “win now” mode it’s actually a better win total than a lot of high lottery picks get in their first two seasons.

      What that tells me is the because of Phil, Dolan, etc. the Knicks’ locker room is pretty toxic. It’s hard to believe it’s just the mediocre win total itself that’s bothering him so much.

      Man, the guy who so greatly emphasized building a “culture” and all that sure has dropped the fuckin’ ball. What a mess.

    9. JK47

      Seems like Porzingis is actually a high-IQ player. When the Knicks were riding high early in the season but had a crummy point differential and Pythag projection, KP seemed to intuitively understand this. I don’t remember the exact quote, but he said something to the effect of “If this defense doesn’t improve, we’re not going to be a good team.” And he was right.

      On a somewhat related note, why were the 2016-2017 Knicks so utterly shitty at defensive rebounding? They brought back some of the same guys in the frontcourt from the previous season. The main difference in the frontcourt was swapping out 2200 minutes of Robin Lopez for 1300 minutes of Willy Hernangomez and 900 minutes of Joakim Noah. Both of those guys were better rebounders than Lopez himself, yet the Knicks plummeted from 18th in defensive rebounding to 30th. What gives? Was Lopez’ boxing out really THAT important? Were the guys that replaced Lopez just THAT bad at boxing out? Or is something else going on here?

    10. Cock Jowles, The Nostradumbass Who Still Beat Your Weak Preseason Picks

      What that tells me is the because of Phil, Dolan, etc. the Knicks’ locker room is pretty toxic. It’s hard to believe it’s just the mediocre win total itself that’s bothering him so much.

      I think the “2011 East All-Star Team, but now with more veteran leadership and experience” preseason hype made the 31 wins even more unpalatable.

    11. kevin5318

      We all like KP and all but we don’t know how much work he puts in compared to Melo, Rose and others. He definitley takes his fair share of plays off on both ends of the floor.

    12. djphan

      just looking at the personnel and reb rates… the three biggest culprits seem to be lee(vs afflalo), melo and kp…. as they all saw their def reb rates plummet from last year…

      the reb rates for the other big men… wily, noah and koq… all went up… but i think it might be artificially inflated due to more available rebs since the others weren’t grabbing them….

      i highly suspect rolo had an impact on the rebounding but also that there was some erosion or passivity from both melo and kp on the def glass that didn’t exist last year… those things might be related because if someone is boxing out by faceguarding then it’s up to the other frontcourt guy to go grab the rebound… if someone else is gonna go grab it you might be less active in going after it yourself…

    13. Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada

      I think RoLo’s boxing out was that important coupled with Melo dropping any pretense of caring about anything but scoring. And KP playing way further away from the rim than last year.

      I’m fine with KP putting other players on blast who deserve it like Melo, Rose, etc. If he were flaming Baker, Willy, etc. I’d have a problem.

    14. jk_in_the_park

      What that tells me is the because of Phil, Dolan, etc. the Knicks’ locker room is pretty toxic. It’s hard to believe it’s just the mediocre win total itself that’s bothering him so much.

      I agree this is likely at the root of KP’s complaint — not the win total.

      the work ethic of your best player sets the tone for the entire team.

      For this reason, I think it was a big mistake for KP to blow off his exit interview. If he aspires to lead, however toxic the present situation is, he should behave accordingly.

      @12 very interesting question about the defensive rebounding. Is “ball watching” contagious?

    15. swiftandabundant

      We have no idea what was going on in the locker room. I would really love to know how Melo and Rose felt about each other. Both of those dudes are so good at being non plussed, acting like its all good, and I really could not tell at all watching the games if they actually liked each other but I just got the impression that they did not really care for each other and they were both just playing their own game within the game. Melo respected him and vice versa but they didn’t actually gel at all.

      KP was kind of stuck in the middle of that and I think Phil giving Rose some praise while not giving any to Melo is telling. Sure it might be a mistake to bring back Rose, but he’s dealt with Melo now for 3 seasons and except for the first half of last year, Melo hasn’t really tried to play the right way at all. I think Noah being hurt really hurt everything bc if he was healthy and contributing he would have been the leader on the court and would have made everyone work together but he wasn’t healthy so he can only be so vocal in that situation.

      The weird thing is that the Rose/Noah deal may have set us up better with our draft pick. If he’d not done those deals and just say signed Lee and Jennings, the team might have been better with chemistry and cohesion although Lance being out most of the year hurt our defense more than people care to admit. So on the one hand if Phil had gone that route we might have a better record and not as good of a draft pick but on the other hand we would be done with Calderon this year and still had Rolo and Grant. As it is right now its risky to move KQ bc of Noah. But if we’d stay put Phil could move Rolo or KQ this off season for something and let Willie take over the minutes. Of course the best would have been to stay put, just say sign Lee and Jennings, maybe we’re the same record wise and we still get a top 8 pick this year and have better mobility moving forward. Hopefully Noah retires before his contract is finished.

    16. the don nelson era

      In my years of watching the Knicks and NY sports in general, I’ve many times thought to myself, “Hopefully XYZ retires before his contract is finished.” Never once has it happened :(

    17. Philmelo

      “In a one way this was a good year for me to see how can I handle so crappy a time and learn from that. It was unpleasant but valuable experience to learn from, to get through it and continue to play with the right attitude and maximum concentration. If you want to be a leader you have to start with yourself — first you have to look in the mirror and ask yourself: what can you do better? And only then tell your teammates what they should do better … a real test for the brains.”

      This was the most important quote of all.

    18. Accidentank 2017

      Every quote I’ve ever heard from KP told me that he has the highest IQ on the team.

      When asked about Derrick Rose’s arrival in New York, he joked that he misses a lot of shots so there will be an opportunity to be a better offensive rebounder.

      When he fouled out against Phoenix, he screamed at the guards to stop the ball.

      And then today.

    19. latke

      Also, that line about Phil having made some mistakes… At this point, I wouldn’t be surprised if Phil tries to trade KP. PJ couldn’t even criticize himself except in the vaguest of ways during his presser. We know his ego is roughly the size of the Milky Way. Criticizing him publicly is probably about as offensive to Phil as Latrell going for the throat was to the other PJ, Mr. Carlesimo.

    20. thenoblefacehumper

      Even if trading Porzingis would make sense in a vacuum, I think I’d be opposed to all but the most ridiculous offers for a few reasons.

      1) I still do believe Porzingis can be a very good player. I’m less confident than I was after his rookie year, but if he can just get his rebounding back to where it was as a rookie, get his TS% up to 60% (easier said than done, I know), and grow as a defender (ditto), he’ll be pretty awesome.

      2) A trade would absolutely reinforce the (accurate) notion that we’re a shit show franchise with no direction. I don’t care about that as it relates to the reaction from fans and the media, but it matters as it relates to players. If we’re ever going to not suck, we need to rebuild our credibility.

    21. Brian Cronin

      Trading KP would also keep the streak of not keeping a first round pick past his rookie contract since 1999 going. :)

    22. latke

      We did keep David Lee but it was only for a year and only because he didn’t get the free agent offer he wanted.

    23. Brian Cronin

      We did keep David Lee but it was only for a year and only because he didn’t get the free agent offer he wanted.

      That (and Nate’s deal that same year) were technically still their rookie deals. You get one last year at the qualifying offer price, if the player can’t get either an extension or a restricted free agent offer sheet from another team.

    24. rama

      Latke, thanks for posting that translation of the Zinger interview. My favorite quote (from his brother):

      “There were a lot of questions, but no answers.”

      Indeed.

      And yeah, he sounds down on Phil, but he also confirmed our sense that it was a toxic lockeroom. Hoah is a leader, but couldn’t stay on the court, so it didn’t matter. Melo is mellow, Rose is aloof. Bad chemistry.

      Also, Rose sucks and Melo is vastly overpaid, so there’s that, too.

    25. rama

      He also said he’s in touch with one NYK coach, who sees eye to eye on what he needs to work on. Can’t be Rambis??

    26. Frank

      I honestly still think there’s a coup attempt going on, with Melo, KP, and the NBPA trying to get Dolan to fire Phil.

      That said, I don’t have a problem with KP being 21 and speaking his mind. There are a ton of adults on the Knicks and none of them actually act like adults, so why shouldn’t a kid speak up?

      And that quote about looking at yourself first before criticizing others — that is clearly a shot at Phil (and maybe Melo too). Of course, when Phil looks at himself, all he sees is 11 championships he won as a coach, and not the 166 losses he’s accumulated over 3 years as a GM/POBO.

    27. Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada

      The mystery coach has got to be Josh Longstaff–he’s generally considered to be a very good assistant coach (very likable too) and KP worked with him often

      He’s been getting some attention from other teams and might be in line for a HC gig in a few years

    28. Jack Bauer

      “Trading KP would also keep the streak of not keeping a first round pick past his rookie contract since 1999 going. :)”
      This is a big reason why they suck – of course if they didn’t trade their draft picks so often and made better choices with the ones they did keep it would be easier to actually retain some of the guys they drafted.

    29. geo

      thanks latke…great link…

      Carmelo is a leader, and has a big ego. Also Rose and Noah two big names joined the team this year. How did that impacted the locker-room?
      Kris: It definitely added some character. Noah is emotional guy, who always was playing in the right system, so he knows how to play the right way, and doesn’t want to play differently. And perhaps, we need more guys like him. It was just hard for him, that he couldn’t play on the level he wanted to.. So it was hard for him to be a leader. Carmelo, is a really chill dude, pretty much nothing can fire him up, and Rose is just quiet, he doesn’t talk at all.
      So yeah, Noah was the guy, especially in the beginning of the season.. He was trying to help the guys, told coaches what to do.. It was a hard situation. But he couldn’t impact some stupid decision we made as a team.
      Noah didn’t play on the level we all expected too.. but he was the guy who could tell someone things he didn’t want to hear.

      Were there a lot of moments when you were frustrated that you didn’t get the ball?
      Kristaps tries to answer, but Janis interrupts him.
      Janis: Nah, Kristaps doesn’t do that. We as brothers were pretty emotional, though.
      Kristaps: Yeah, there was a time when we played on the road, and my family was together watching the game in my apartment, and someone got pretty hot, and broke the TV. :D looking at Janis

      i’m glad KP is solid with his family, sounds like basketball is their life…i wish they were calling the shots for our team…

      yeah, here’s hoping rose & melo never wear a knicks uniform again…

    30. Brian Cronin

      Yeah, it speaks to Brian Keefe and Josh Longstaff’s talents that they came over from OKC with Fisher but then remained after Fisher was fired and Hornacek was brought in.

    31. JK47

      KP is a well-spoken, thoughtful guy who seems to have a good understanding of what it would take to play winning basketball.

      There’s no place for him here.

    32. Philmelo

      Wow, it looks like KP’s family was aware that his teammates were freezing him out. And then there was this nugget:

      Janis: I think it was great. His stats were up. If we consider the team he played on, I think he did great.

    33. Philmelo

      Amen to this:

      And then there are some basketball things, we are looking to improve. I know that I have to bend lower, in pretty much every play, in the post, or just carrying the ball, so I can take contact easier and stay in my position.

    34. Philmelo

      Noah didn’t play on the level we all expected too.. but he was the guy who could tell someone things he didn’t want to hear.

      I bet that guy was Rose.

    35. stratomatic

      So yeah, Noah was the guy, especially in the beginning of the season.. He was trying to help the guys, told coaches what to do..

      Told coaches what to do?

      Yikes.

    36. stratomatic

      Wow, it looks like KP’s family was aware that his teammates were freezing him out. And then there was this nugget:

      There were unquestionably occasions when they were freezing him out.

      There are times when a player will simply miss an open man or make the wrong decision, but I saw occasions where someone threw the ball across court to avoid passing to KP even though he was wide open. If I had KP’s contract I would have broken a few TVs also.

      This is something I will never fully understand. I’m sure there are some professional jealousies involved where some players think another is getting too much attention, hype, and money relative to his talents. But very sadly, I think there is “sometimes” an element of racism to it. I’ pretty sure I saw it with Gallinari and we might be seeing it again with KP. It’s possible there was even some of that with Lin.

      There are very few white (or Asian) stars in the NBA. I think sometimes when a good white player comes along he can get over hyped by the media and have some deals available to him that other better players don’t get . No doubt, some other players resent that. I would. But getting your frustrations out on the court is a bad idea. It reflects poorly on you to freeze out another player over professional jealousies that have nothing to do with him personally or him as a player.

      I remember reading an interview with Al Harrington that hinted at that also, but Al defended Gallo strongly. It raised my opinion of Al.

    37. the don nelson era

      Like it was yesterday, I can remember Al Harrington putting his head down and barreling into two defenders while Gallo stood unguarded at the break, hands out, ready and waiting for a pass that would never come.

    38. stratomatic

      Like it was yesterday, I can remember Al Harrington putting his head down and barreling into two defenders while Gallo stood unguarded at the break, hands out, ready and waiting for a pass that would never come.

      Al kind of hinted that he and some of the other players felt that he should be starting over Gallo. That was very early in Gallo’s career and a lot of them thought Al was the better player. Some of the guys resented Gallo over it. I disagree with them. I think Gallo was better right from the start. But in any event, Al also said he thought Gallo was a great kid and he liked him a lot. But there’s little question a few of the guys on that team were freezing Gallo out.

    39. Brian Cronin

      It’s interesting, though, that last season there didn’t seem to be that attitude towards KP at all. So I guess it was more of a Rose-led thing? Seems hard to believe Noah would act like that. Maybe Lee? Lee seems like a nice guy, but even otherwise nice guys can buy into certain regressive ideas sometimes and Lee sometimes talks “old school” basketball talk.

    40. Donnie Walsh

      Yeah, Charlie Ward was the last knick draft pick to outlive his rookie contract. Pretty much sums up why the Knicks have sucked for 15+ years.

      On a similar subject, what is the Knicksiest move out there this summer? KP for Dwight Howard? The 2017, 2018, and 2020 pick for Kemba Walker? (Win Now isn’t a mode, it’s a lifestyle!)

    41. Brian Cronin

      Lee froze KP out as much as Rose did to be honest.

      Yeah, that’s what I was figuring. I like Lee, but he definitely does seem to be a bit of a follower in that regard. Too bad.

    42. Brian Cronin

      On a similar subject, what is the Knicksiest move out there this summer? KP for Dwight Howard? The 2017, 2018, and 2020 pick for Kemba Walker? (Win Now isn’t a mode, it’s a lifestyle!)

      You have to temper it with somewhat realistic stuff. For instance, the Knicks aren’t going to deal a first rounder. They just aren’t. So the Knickiest trade would have to involve Melo being dealt for, like, Luol Deng and Houston’s first rounder and KP dealt for, like, Bradley Beal and Marcus Morris. Then, of course, re-sign Rose.

      So it’d be:

      Rose/Rookie PG
      Beal/Lee
      Lee/Deng
      Morris/O’Quinn/Deng
      Noah/Willy

      You could see how someone could think that that could somehow make sense.

    43. GoNyGoNyGo

      The more I hear KP, the more I appreciate him. First, I give him credit for being quiet for 2 years. It’s the absolute perfect time to start speaking up. By year 3 the shine is off. He’s a veteran. It’s time he got respect from the team like a star should.

      While he might have felt frozen out, with ISO-Melo and Derrick “I’m-a-scoring-PG” Rose on the team, there just weren’t enough balls to go around. And Lee’s game is catch-n-shoot too.

      @7 – Rondo and Rose . I prefer Rondo but he’s a jerk. How about we draft a PG and hold onto Randle and Baker instead? Maybe the two Holidays?

      @11 – Really? Worse teams? I’m sure that you’re right, but 63-101 over 2 years is pretty awful.

    44. Donnie Walsh

      the Knicks aren’t going to deal a first rounder. They just aren’t

      Because James Dolan no longer owns the Knicks?

    45. Brian Cronin

      Because James Dolan no longer owns the Knicks?

      Remember, even before he hired Jackson, Dolan got involved and squelched a Steve Mills-orchestrated trade where the Knicks would have dealt their 2018 first rounder for Kyle Lowry. Of course, of all their trades involving first rounders over the past 17 years, that one would have been closest to actually being worth it (because Knicks), but it was still a bad idea to deal a first rounder when your team is not good. Anyhow, Dolan, above all, hates people giving him shit, and he knew that trading a first rounder would make people give him shit, so I believe that he is now ingrained into his brain (like some sort of PTSD) that he won’t deal a first rounder any time soon.

      That Mill was going to do it, though, is kind of depressing. Although, again, at least Lowry is a really, really good player (even though he wasn’t playing like that at the time of the proposed deal).

    46. Ben R

      I think the biggest factor in our struggle to defensively rebound the ball was the lack of perimeter defense. KP or O’Quinn would help and challenge every time the defense broke down, every play almost, and would then be out of position to rebound the ball. This combined with a lack of strength from KP to fight back into position meant we lost a lot of defensive rebounds.

      It’s not really on KP though. With defensive rebounding you need to look at +/- numbers more than individual stats. KP spent most of his minutes next to very aggressive defensive rebounders in Noah, Hernangomez and O’Quinn. This meant he deferred a lot more this year than last when Rolo would defer to him.

      An interesting stat is that the Knicks were a better defensive rebounding team with KP on the court than off and the team was better at getting defensive rebounds with KP on the court than O’Quinn or Hernangomez.

      I personally like that KP is getting more vocal and trading him would be a terrible move because we don’t know what we have yet. Right now he is an average offensive player and a good defensive player but best case he is a superstar on both sides of the ball. We need to keep developing him because his upside is better than anything we could trade him for.

    47. MSA

      On a similar subject, what is the Knicksiest move out there this summer? KP for Dwight Howard? The 2017, 2018, and 2020 pick for Kemba Walker? (Win Now isn’t a mode, it’s a lifestyle!)

      Rudy Gay has a player option and is coming from a serious season ending injury.

      It’s the perfect storm for mega maxing him.

    48. Donnie Walsh

      Remember, even before he hired Jackson, Dolan got involved and squelched a Steve Mills-orchestrated trade where the Knicks would have dealt their 2018 first rounder for Kyle Lowry…. Dolan, above all, hates people giving him shit, and he knew that trading a first rounder would make people give him shit.

      Yeah, but that was specifically because Ujiri had just humiliated him with the Bargnani trade and the thought of Toronto taking even more lottery picks from him made him balk. I don’t think it can safely be universally applied to 2017. (If you think Dolan turned a corner there, just you wait…)

    49. Cock Jowles, The Nostradumbass Who Still Beat Your Weak Preseason Picks

      On a similar subject, what is the Knicksiest move out there this summer? KP for Dwight Howard? The 2017, 2018, and 2020 pick for Kemba Walker? (Win Now isn’t a mode, it’s a lifestyle!)

      Howard is still awesome, though. I’d hate to have to look at him for a whole season, but he’d immediately turn the Knicks into a playoff team on his own.

      A Knicksy move is something like giving up two firsts, Lee and Willy for Evan Turner and Meyers Leonard.

    50. GoNyGoNyGo

      Giving a big honking near-max contract to Jrue Holiday would be pretty Knicksy.

      How about a reasonable contract? 3-years, $40M?

    51. Z-man

      KP should look in the mirror. Considering his length, his defense was pretty poor. He took plenty of bad shots. I love the kid and believe in him, but he should STFU until he actually accomplishes something and stop blaming his lack of progress on his teammates and management.

      Was it his teammates and management that had him airballing that three vs. Philly? Or had him missing that game-winning banker early in the season? Or had him committing dumb reaching fouls left and right? Or had him getting brutally torched by Gobert? Or had him getting outhustled to rebounds time and time again?

      WHG and O’Quinn were jerked around and benched time and time again, and kept their respective mouths shut while they both outplayed KP by a large margin without all the hype. I think KP comes off as a prima donna entitled crybaby who got too much hype too early without fully earning it.

      I’ll change my tune when he backs up his tough talk with significantly above league-average play.

    52. GoNyGoNyGo

      On a similar subject, what is the Knicksiest move out there this summer?

      Resigning Rose and extending Melo.

    53. chrisk06811

      KP should look in the mirror. Considering his length, his defense was pretty poor. He took plenty of bad shots. I love the kid and believe in him, but he should STFU until he actually accomplishes something and stop blaming his lack of progress on his teammates and management.

      Dude is seven foot three. What friggen mirror do you want him to look in? who hangs a mirror that high?

    54. stratomatic

      I think I agree with you Z-Man. He hasn’t done enough to be acting like primadonna. In fact he hasn’t done anything yet.

    55. stratomatic

      I was watching OKC the other night and I realized something. I think Willy Hernangomez’s game reminds me a little of Enes Kanter at the same age. Hopefully WH will improve defensively because that remains an issue with Kanter, but they are somewhat alike at the same age.

    56. yellowboy90

      I thought the second team would freeze KP out a lot of the time too. There were many times Holiday and Jennings would chuck up shots instead of passing it to KP. Holiday played better than I thought he was going to play but I can not remember a game that he didn’t shoot a jumper as soon as he entered the game.

    57. stratomatic

      Resigning Rose and extending Melo.

      I’d put the odds of re-signing Rose at close to 50%.

      I brought this unpopular subject up a week or so ago.

      I don’t see any quality free agent PGs I think are likely to come to NY and I don’t think our draft pick is going to be ready to run the team next year. So we are going to need a starting PG unless you think they are going to hand the reigns over to Baker or Randle.

      If Melo is traded and we don’t get a PG back, then I think it becomes even more likely we re-sign Rose because we will need another scorer.

    58. yellowboy90

      I see a way better passer and defender in Willy than Kanter was when he was the same age.

      If Willy can add a few lbs and get stronger I think it will help him tremendously next year.

    59. nicos

      There wasn’t any concerted effort to freeze KP out- his usage was just about the same as Rose’s (24.3 vs. 25.7). Were there times when he didn’t get the ball when open? Sure, but you could say that about just about every player on the team since Rose and Lee made up one of the worst playmaking backcourts in the league.

    60. JK47

      If Phil re-signs Rose then he’s even more full of shit than I thought. Rose is the most un-triangley point guard there is, he is the consummate selfish player, he doesn’t even pretend to play defense and he is a low-character jackass.

    61. Z-man

      Kristaps averaged over 16 shots per 36. That’s being frozen out? That was 0.3 shots per 36 more than Rose. Only Melo averaged more shots per 36 at 19.7.

      For him (or anyone else) to argue that he was frozen out is preposterous. Since when is he entitled to more shots than he took? If anything, he should have shot less.

    62. JK47

      ‘Staps took lots of shots but he was also forced to create his offense way too much. A good solid passing-oriented PG would be nice for his development but doing things that make sense is not exactly Phil Jackson’s jam.

    63. Accidentank 2017

      The Knicks don’t need to re-sign Rose for any reason. KP is enough of a scorer that he can assume the #1 option on a bad team. The Warriors are a great offense precisely because there is no first or second option. Pass the damn ball. We’ll be better off for it; just ask Kevin Durant.

    64. Z-man

      JK, agreed. But other big-time sophs like Towns, Turner and Jokic did plenty of creating. And Kristaps missed plenty of wide open looks, or chose to drive into traffic rather than pull up and shoot over smaller defenders.

      He made plenty of dumb decisions on both ends with no one to blame but himself. Which is fine. He’s still very young and has lots of time to develop.

      But does he need to start taking stands against teammates, coaches and management? Is Melo getting in his ear?

    65. Cock Jowles, The Nostradumbass Who Still Beat Your Weak Preseason Picks

      More evidence that Z-man and I are becoming the same person. Mostly re: KP’s production, rather than the argument that he should just shut up and play. I can’t disagree with his subtext that Jackson should be fired.

    66. Cock Jowles, The Nostradumbass Who Still Beat Your Weak Preseason Picks

      Who the hell is going to beat GSW this year? This is ridiculous. Portland’s not that bad!

    67. Brian Cronin

      We thought that last year and the Cavs pulled it off. It’s not over until it’s over…but okay, yeah, it’s pretty much over.

    68. Brian Cronin

      He’s the only guy I can think of, and I’m even including Jordan here, where he seems to almost single-handedly carry these teams of his to the Finals every year. Jordan was a one-man crew early in his career, but they weren’t going deep in the playoffs. I’ve seen that a lot – one-man shows taking teams to, say, where Westbrook has taken the Thunder. But it wasn’t until Jordan got help that the Bulls became the Bulls, but with Lebron, it’s not that the Cavs don’t have talent, but come on, remember how tough he played the Warriors two years ago with just JR, Shump, Thompson, Mozgov and Delledova? It’s insane.

    69. er

      Right, he’s sublime and a top 3-5 player all time. I think that Spurs series was an anomaly. The combo of Pop and Duncan and the lights out shooting. Destroyed an aging Heat team. This team is still young, i think that if Love can recover from this shit series, they will win.

    70. Brian Cronin

      Okay, here’s a mind-blowing question that is mostly predicated on how dumb the Basketball Hall of Fame is. Hasn’t Stephon Marbury done enough in China to merit inclusion in the Basketball Hall of Fame?

    71. KnickfaninNJ

      On a similar subject, what is the Knicksiest move out there this summer? KP for Dwight Howard? The 2017, 2018, and 2020 pick for Kemba Walker? (Win Now isn’t a mode, it’s a lifestyle!)

      Maybe trading first round picks for Greg Monroe (or someone like him)?

    72. KnickfaninNJ

      It’s the Hall of Fame, not the hall of Talent or best results or best players. Marbury is famous, so he should be considered. But I don’t think famous enough to get in.

    73. Brian Cronin

      I generally agree, but the problems with the Hall of Fame is that they have much easier standards for non-NBA players to get in, so Marbury’s fame in China oddly enough carries extra weight. Really, there should just be an NBA Hall of Fame. I have no idea why there isn’t one.

    74. KnickfaninNJ

      That’s a good point. He’s certainly a big star in China. There’s an actual statue outside the stadium in Beijing. I don’t know when he is eligible though. If they count CBA service, he played this last season so maybe he has to wait five years.

    75. Nick C.

      The problem is is that Hall of Fame when they originally began to exist were called Halls of Fame not because they were cataloging famous people in their fields, but because their place in the hall would grant them a measure of everlasting fame.

    76. stratomatic

      There are no public stats that will measure whether a player is being frozen out. You HAVE TO see it. Like I said in my original post, all players occasionally don’t see an open man or will make the wrong pass. That doesn’t mean a thing. But when a player looks straight at you, sees you are wide open, looks you off, and then makes a pass across court to bypass you or reverses the ball to someone that is covered, that’s intentional.

    77. stratomatic

      KP is enough of a scorer that he can assume the #1 option on a bad team. The Warriors are a great offense precisely because there is no first or second option. Pass the damn ball. We’ll be better off for it; just ask Kevin Durant.

      I appreciate the sentiment on passing, but putting KP in the same sentence as Curry or Durant is silly. They are 2 of the greatest scorers in the history of the NBA. That’s why one can be out and they are still great. KP should not even be in the same sentence as Klay Thompson. He’s a great shooter and can create some.

      IMO, if KP is the #1 option and defenses are game planning to stop him, our offense is going to be pretty bad when the secondary options are guys like Lee, Baker, WH etc… Of course if you want to be bad for another draft pick, that’s another story.

      If everyone is so against Rose for another year as a filler while our draft pick develops (totally understandable) then we need to come up with another scorer if Melo is also out. Otherwise we are going to win 25 games next year even if KP makes some progress as a player. As bad a Rose and Melo were this year, you need some scoring to compete nightly.

    78. Donnie Walsh

      But when a player looks straight at you, sees you are wide open, looks you off, and then makes a pass across court to bypass you or reverses the ball to someone that is covered, that’s intentional.

      Yeah, I saw Chauncey Billips do that exact thing to Landry Fields a bunch (definitely easier to see in person than on TV). Maybe it’s something vet PGs do to young players just to make them pay their dues or something. (In Billups’ cases in was almost always in favor of giving the ball to a covered Anthony, which may have just been what he was used to doing in Denver, but it sure killed what D’Antoni was trying to do (and killed what was working for Fields too).

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