Statistical Analysis. Humor. Knicks.

Wednesday, May 24, 2017

Knicks Morning News (2017.04.18)

  • [NYDN] Knicks star Carmelo Anthony splits from wife La La
    (Monday, April 17, 2017 5:05:31 PM)

    Knicks superstar Carmelo Anthony is about to lose the only ring he’s ever had in New York.

  • [NYDN] Carmelo Anthony now at a crossroads professionally and personally
    (Monday, April 17, 2017 3:45:13 PM)

    This was clearly the most trying season of Carmelo Anthony’s career even.

  • [ESPN] Rumor Central: Will the Holiday brothers play together next season?
    (Monday, April 17, 2017 10:33:31 AM)

    Rumor Central: Will the Holiday brothers play together next season?

  • [NYPost] What’s at stake for Knicks-Timberwolves lottery drawing
    (Monday, April 17, 2017 6:03:02 PM)

    The NBA will hold a drawing Tuesday to determine what order the Knicks and Timberwolves will draft in the event neither moves up in the May 16 lottery. Wednesday’s last-second Knicks victory over Philadelphia tied them with Minnesota for the sixth-worst record — which already cost them pingpong balls — instead of finishing alone in…

  • [NYPost] Knicks legend’s home about to hit the market for almost $20M
    (Monday, April 17, 2017 5:36:28 PM)

    The nearly 20,000-square-foot French revival home has 26 rooms, seven bedrooms and 10 marble bathrooms, all on 10 acres on Converse Lake.

  • [NYPost] Phil Jackson has one pressing job that will decide Knicks’ future
    (Monday, April 17, 2017 4:29:19 PM)

    The franchise cornerstone was sick and tired of the losing, of the dysfunction, of the relentless assault on his pride as a professional. He had grown tired of New York, but he had really grown weary of the Knicks, and of Madison Square Garden, the corporate cartoon that kept letting him down. He’d had enough….

  • [NYPost] Carmelo and La La Anthony have separated
    (Monday, April 17, 2017 1:00:43 PM)

    Reports say they're already living apart.

  • [SNY Knicks] Porzingis’ displeasure with Knicks can lead to multiple issues
    (Monday, April 17, 2017 10:15:53 AM)

    How can Porzingis, in good faith, endorse Jackson or the organization as a whole, if no progress has been made and there’s no clear vision for what’s next entirely in place?

  • [NYTimes] Cavaliers and Spurs Hold On, Extending Their Playoff Leads
    (Tuesday, April 18, 2017 3:38:04 AM)

    Kyrie Irving had 37 points and Cleveland avoided a fourth-quarter collapse to the Pacers. Kawhi Leonard scored 37 in the Spurs’ win over the Grizzlies.

  • [NYTimes] On Pro Basketball: Camp Lockdown? Rockets’ Patrick Beverley Puts On a Clinic
    (Tuesday, April 18, 2017 12:46:36 AM)

    Beverley, who is staging a summer basketball camp for children that emphasizes defense, thwarted the Thunder’s star, Russell Westbrook, in Game 1 on Sunday.

  • [NYTimes] Heat’s Season Is Over, but They’re Not Ready to Stop Working
    (Monday, April 17, 2017 11:19:53 PM)

    In a change from its routine, Miami invited players, including impending free agents, to stick around in the coming weeks, and hopes are already high for next season.

  • 173 comments on “Knicks Morning News (2017.04.18)

    1. Totes McGoats

      Wow. I am sorry to hear about Melo & LaLa. This has been unequivocally Melo’s worst year in the NBA. I really hope they find a way to work it out. The cynic in me finds the opening line in the Daily News article about it kinda clever and funny..but it was also kinda low. Poor timing of it if you are gonna consider the family that’s reportedly splitting. Melo hasn’t won as a Knick, but he has been a class act as the face of the franchise way more often than not. As a man, I hate that he’s goin through this in publuc view. As a player, he’s probably anxious to get away now. If the team continues to be dysfunctional and lose games, he will lose his mind if he’s still a Knick. Finding himself on a better team will be even more of a sanctuary for him than it would be without the family issue

    2. Frank

      I hope for Melo’s sake that he waives his NTC, gets traded somewhere he wants to go, and that he works out his marital issues — and whether that means they stay separated, get divorced, or get back together, that it doesn’t affect his relationship with his son too much, because by all accounts he has done everything he can to be a good dad to him.

      While the way in which he forced his way to New York will forever leave a bad taste, I don’t know that anyone (even THCJ etc.) would have expected it to end this badly. Both the Knicks and Melo have to have a clean break and just move on.

      Meanwhile, funny how all the commentators and journalists are saying that the Triangle is going away after Phil’s 2 years are over. Considering Dolan’s completely misguided loyalties to his front office staff over the last 15+ years, what makes anyone think that he won’t just re-sign Phil for more misery?

      I think I can stick it out another 2 years, but if either Phil signs an extension and/or he trades KP, I think I’m done. I sort of appreciate what the Nets are doing in Brooklyn. The seats are cheaper – maybe I could even afford to take my family to a game! That would be something.

    3. Totes McGoats

      I think I can stick it out another 2 years, but if either Phil signs an extension and/or he trades KP, I think I’m done. I sort of appreciate what the Nets are doing in Brooklyn. The seats are cheaper – maybe I could even afford to take my family to a game! That would be something.

      LOL! The catch-22 would be if Phil manages to install this “Patriots-like identity”, gets this system of Knicks basketball rollin, and we start seeing tangible results. Honestly, I root for Phil to be successful- I’m a Knicks fan. But if there’s any era of teams that our current Knicks squad emulates, I hope it includes KP at the 5 and the toughness of the 90’s Knicks.

    4. fmikieo

      I’m beginning to doubt the veracity of the news concerning Melo’s marital separation. As has been witnessed many times before, he and LaLa are both very good at PR. I think this is just another stunt. And, based on what I’m reading, they’re playing the sports media industry and fans like a violin. If that’s how they want to play, then Phil is right that Melo really would be better off elsewhere.

      Seriously, trade the dude.

      And if that can’t happen, stretch him September 1st. Pay him, at most, 24 Mil that first year… it’ll probably be less as he’ll command a 10-15 Mil on the open market. Remember that the former team’s monetary responsibility gets reduced whether the player clears waivers or not (more if he doesn’t) and sign a new contract elsewhere. And I suspect that someone will pick him up before he clears waivers.

      And for that very reason, stretching his last year (by waiving him when the new contractual year starts Sept 1st) over the 3 years (at most 8.7 Mil) probably won’t cost the Knicks much, if anything, as his lowest possible role (highly skilled offensive role player) is worth at least 12 Mil (consider Eric Gordon) for at least the next few years.

    5. Hugo Busto

      No way PHIL stays here longer than the 2 years left on his contract. He’s too old and he already got what he wanted coming here, a big fat payday. It is funny that once he leaves the triangle will get dropped faster than you can imagine.

      Now on to Melo. He supposedly got a stripper pregnant.
      Any other trade ideas? I briefly thought about the Milwaukee Bucks and him reuniting with Jason Kidd lol. But I think he just needs to go play with one of his banana boat teammates

    6. Hugo Busto

      STRETCHING MELO WOULD BE AWFUL

      We don’t want to clog the cap space for when KP’s contract is up.
      We don’t need cap space before 2019/2020 at this point

    7. Frank

      by the way do you know who is the smartest guy in the NBA by far? Steve Kerr. Wow did that guy dodge a bazooka shell.

    8. Reub On Our Way To Greatness

      It was Phil, not Melo. Ever hear of artificial insemination? Damn him!

    9. Reub On Our Way To Greatness

      The crucial coin flip is at 3 PM today to determine whether we get Frank or if we get Ntilikina.

    10. DS

      TAKE THAT FOR DATA!

      google “Fizdale wife”

      BOSS

      Ha!! Good for him. I used to really resent him because he was one of the first faces you would see on the Miami bench celebrating during the LeBron years.

    11. stratomatic

      If Prozingis is not ready to be the #1 scorer (which is probably true), Melo is likely to be traded, our draft pick will probably not be ready to run the team (assuming it’s a PG), I think we should start getting used to the possibility that Rose will be back on a short term contract. Either way, when you are losing 2 scorers and the 3rd is not ready for be the #1, we WILL need another scorer. To try to ease the pain, here’s some interesting stats for Rose for last year.

      Month TS%

      October .472
      November .506
      December .513
      January .525
      February .544
      March .583

    12. swiftandabundant

      I feel bad for Melo but as far as trading him goes, him and LaLa separating could be a good thing. Maybe it will open up his list of preferred teams to get traded to? So much of it always seemed to be about LaLa’s career….why they came to NYC in the first place and why the list was so low. He could only go to the LA teams, Cleveland bc they had a real shot of winning and that was it. Now maybe he’d be open to Boston or Portland or Memphis or The Spurs or any other number of good teams that would get him back in the playoffs.

    13. Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada

      Big Fizdale fan. And I feel bad for Melo and will continue to until it’s verified that he did indeed impregnate someone who wasn’t his wife.

      Please let this coin flip go our way.

    14. Cock Jowles, The Nostradumbass Who Still Beat Your Weak Preseason Picks

      Big Fizdale’s wife fan, here.

      Well, Carmelo’s gone. Definitely gonna happen, now.

    15. Donnie Walsh

      So much of it always seemed to be about LaLa’s career….why they came to NYC in the first place and why the list was so low.

      The big question is: who has more to show for their career in NY, Carmelo “231-283, 6-14 in playoffs” Anthony, or LaLa “Walk Like A Man Too” Vazquez?

    16. Z-man

      I would not want Rose back even on a minimum 1-year deal. It was much more fun to watch Ron Baker play his way to a negative WS48.

      I’d be much more fine with keeping Melo around for the duration of his contract.

    17. Ingmarrr

      Porzingis scored 18.1 ppg (up from 14.4) on .546 TS (up from .518) with 2 iso pseudo stars around him, how is he not ready to be #1 scorer on a non-playoff team? I don’t buy it. Get him a pass first pg and see how he does.

    18. Cock Jowles, The Nostradumbass Who Still Beat Your Weak Preseason Picks

      That’s really wonderful for Derrick, but he doesn’t pass the ball or play defense and he’ll be 29 before the season starts. No. No no no no.

    19. KnickfaninNJ

      I think we can live with one of Rose or Melo, two makes it too hard to do defense. If we need a point guard for a year or two and the price is reasonable I can live with Rose being the one. But I think Rose has value and will get competitive offers. If anything makes him cheap, it’s the knee stuff and the disappearing stuff. His actual play probably has other teams interested.

    20. Ingmarrr

      but he doesn’t pass the ball or play defense and he’ll be 29

      and his TS probably went up as he started initiating contact towards the end of the season. Now that it got him injured, he probably won’t anymore.

    21. swiftandabundant

      This separation and the Phil drama provides the perfect opportunity for Melo to really change the narrative on his career.

      Imagine this scenario. Melo opens up the possibility of being traded to a larger number of “contending” teams. And works actively with The Knicks to work out a trade that works for all sides. Knicks get an asset or two (young player/picks, expiring contracts), Melo goes to any number of good teams looking to make the jump or get a title – Wizards, Boston, Portland, Spurs, Griz, Cleveland, Clippers. Melo goes to one of these teams. This time next year Melo is back in the playoffs, maybe even on a team that has serious title aspirations, and the narrative is that with all the Knicks drama and personal drama he just had to refocus on winning even if that meant taking a smaller role on a contending team. Now he’s the hero who was smart enough to get away from The Knicks.

      Honestly, the whole Melo era is going to be remembered in a really weird way. The trade to get here. The initial success and the slow and painful exit. But dang his first full year we closed 18-6 and went into the playoffs against Miami super hot. I remember people saying “remember 99″ going into that series. The next year we won 54 games and were at one point serious title contenders. Its crazy how initially we were actually kind of good with Melo. Fuck that first year we had Boston on the ropes in game one before Billups got hurt then STAT got hurt and we almost won game 2. We could have easily been up 2-0 in that series if Billups and STAT stayed in the series.

    22. thenoblefacehumper

      There’s a reasonable chance that Rose is more productive than whoever we would otherwise trot out at point guard next year. All that means is we’d win a few more games while giving money and a roster to spot to someone who has absolutely no future on this team. I’d much rather use our cap space to try to get assets and lose a few more games.

    23. Cock Jowles, The Nostradumbass Who Still Beat Your Weak Preseason Picks

      But dang his first full year we closed 18-6 and went into the playoffs against Miami super hot.

      We actually closed 18-12.

    24. stratomatic

      I’m not advocating for Rose. I dread the thought. I am simply suggesting that if both Rose and Melo are gone, the Knicks are definitely going to need another scorer to go along with KP if the team wants be competitive. I think Phil knows that. That’s why he mentioned that KP is not ready to carry the load and also why he has not totally dismissed bringing back Rose. Rose solves 2 short term problems. He can play PG for another year while our draft pick develops and he can score 20 points a night next year. Then he’s out and our new PG takes over the following year.

      That’s just one scenario though.

      We still don’t know who we are drafting or who we might be able to sign as a FA. IMO, though, we will clearly need another scorer if Melo and Rose are gone.

    25. djphan

      we really can’t be bringing back rose for a host of reasons… but if phil really wants to change the culture and be all about sharing the ball and have some intelligence around our offense then the guy who dominates the ball when he probably shouldn’t is a prime candidate to not come back…. we also need to prioritize defense of which rose is lacking there as well…

      if we want to be competitive there are lots of better ways to go about doing it and having a ‘scorer’ is only one of a few ways to achieve that…

    26. TheOakmanCometh

      There is no good reason to bring back Rose, even on a short-term deal. Who cares if Zingis is “ready to be a #1 scorer”? He’ll sink or swim on the job and we’ll see what he’s made of. If we win 25 games, who cares? We’re not going to be a good team next year regardless of what Phil does.

      Bringing back Rose as the designated scorer will stunt the development of all the young players. He has no future with this team so it’s not like they’ll be building familiarity with each other. He won’t make us any better since he basically sucks at everything other than getting to the rim.

      Oh, and he went AWOL on the team, was involved in a rape trial, complained repeatedly about the offense we’re allegedly running next year, and accused teammates of not playing defense when he is one of the worst defenders in the league. So, maybe, not the best influence on our young guys.

    27. DS

      Rose should be considered what we used to call an “expiring contract.”

      Example: “Raef LaFrentz’s expiring contract is a valuable asset.”

    28. stratomatic

      @33

      That pretty much sums up the counter argument. However, if you read between the lines of several recent articles and comments, I think Phil is considering it.

    29. JK47

      Well, we already know that Phil Jackson has no idea what he is doing, but if he brings back Derrick Rose he’s even dumber than I thought. Everything out of the man’s mouth is “triangle, triangle, triangle, triangle, triangle,” yet he’s going to bring back Derrick Rose? The point guard who is allergic to passing? The ultimate selfish “me-first” player who disappears on the team, trashes the triangle in the press and refuses to ever fight through a screen? And who just had his 47th consecutive season ended by a knee surgery?

      No. Just stop. Just stop with the Derrick Rose talk. I know the Knicks are lame and are probably always going to be lame, but please, enough Derrick Rose. The guy fuckin’ sucks. He is a losing player, he is not very smart, and he’s a cancer. He’s a scrub who thinks he’s a superstar. He probably thinks he’s getting a max contract, that’s how dumb and delusional Derrick Rose is.

      You want to “change the culture,” you need to get rid of selfish bums like Derrick Rose. If you want the stench of this season’s failure to linger around MSG again next year like a moist fart, then sure, by all means, bring back Derrick Rose.

    30. mase

      What does the term ‘sign and trade’ mean, like why would that be talked about if rose can just sign somewhere else, do we sign him to an extension with a mid level ? Does that work?

    31. swiftandabundant

      Actually I was right. 18-6. Jowles, I know what you did you sneaky fucker! You counted those losses at the end of the Dantoni era. But I was talking about the last 24 games of the season after Woodson took over.

      Its actually crazy to think about. Not counting post season Mike Woodson started out 36-12.

    32. Cock Jowles, The Nostradumbass Who Still Beat Your Weak Preseason Picks

      Squint harder. Makes your truthiness more truthy.

    33. swiftandabundant

      WTF is your point?

      OK I get it. Melo never had any success whatsoever here and you are always right about everything so bow down to Jowles.

      You’re looking to start a fight for no reason other than to be a jerk.

      All I was saying was that Melo did have initial success here and there was a period early on when you could be hopeful about him bc we were in fact a playoff team trending upward. Once Woodson took over we finished his first full season here very strong and had the 54 win season the next year. When we were 18-6 during the 54 win season we had finished out the previous year 18-6 as well, so the Knicks were winning a lot of basketball games there for awhile with Melo. That was my only point. But we get it. You’re so smart.

    34. Z-man

      silly s&a don’t u kno knicks would of gon 0-24 w/o hibberts biyatch dunkin all the melo-misses man u r dum.

    35. Cock Jowles, The Nostradumbass Who Still Beat Your Weak Preseason Picks

      we had finished out the previous year 18-6 as well

      And my only point is that the Knicks also finished the year 18-7, 18-8, 18-9, 18-10, 18-11 and 18-12. Did the players have some sort of epiphany when Woodson took over? Did he sprinkle magic dust on their heads and turn them into a different team? Were players purposely losing to spite D’antoni? Were players on the opposing teams playing harder to spite D’antoni for their buddies on the Knicks?

      You have to believe in some real voodoo, hocus-pocus shit to think that a coach has that large an impact at game 1. This isn’t Popovich cultivating player habit from their first dribbles as NBA players. This is small-sample, arbitrary-endpoint theater. I’m glad you’re hopeful — I bet that feels good — but it’s the definition of spin.

    36. SJK

      No, dude, you’re wrong. There is obviously a tangible difference when a new coach takes over a team. Hence the losing streak leading up to D’Antoni’s firing followed by an improved record. The players may not have had an epiphany but were definitely energized by D’Antoni’s firing.

    37. JK47

      That 2011-2012 season was pretty weird– remember that was the strike-shortened season. That Knick team in particular was a peculiar outlier: it was the one Knick team of the 21st century that was actually a good defensive team. It was the year of Linsanity, the year of the Baron Davis experiment, the year when Mike D’Antoni tried to use Toney Douglas as SSOL point guard… Tyson Chandler was the best player on that team by a mile and Melo was pretty “meh” to be honest. He had a .525 TS% that season.

      The following season the Knicks were really good for a while because Tyson Chandler was still an amazing player, Melo had a career year and Jason Kidd played like an All-Star for half a season before crumbling into little pieces. Melo was certainly a significant contributor to that 54 win team. That was his shining moment as a Knick, that season. He was pretty good that year.

    38. Hugo Busto

      We aren’t going to be competitive next year regardless so bringing back Rose would probably be the last straw for me too

    39. swiftandabundant

      In jowles cold hearted statistical based reality, players are statistical robots who only perform within a certain range of their statistical average. Anytime they play better or worse than their average its simply an outlier that will eventually return to the mean. Their feelings, coaching, effort, chemistry, etc…have absolutely no bearing on how good or bad they play. So even though Melo and Dantoni did not get along and Dantoni had different rotations and agendas and even though the team was going through all sorts of chaos bad (early season losing) and good (Linsanity), none of that had any bearing on the play of the team.

      Dude, I sat courtside at the first Woodson game against Portland. You could feel the energy from the team and a huge sense of relief. They blew them out of the gym and sure, Woodson’s adjustments or whatever were probably only minor but moving on from Dantoni definitely energized Melo and that team.

      And again, you’re starting a dumbass fight just to prove how smart you are. My original post was just about Melo’s career here and how it actually started out ok and we had winning bastketball for awhile but you had to turn it into some BS argument to prove how smart you are.

      I was wrong about Rose and Noah. I wanted Bargs to work out. I supported the Chandler trade. I’ve been wrong about a lot of Knicks related stuff. But I’d rather be wrong than be a jerk. When the Knicks make a move, I look to find a reason why it might work out. That doesn’t make me dumb. It just means I like to look at things optimistically. But we get it. You’re king of Knickerblogger and are always right.

    40. GoNyGoNyGo

      I’m going to answer a bunch of questions I read in this thread…

      Bring back Melo – No.
      Bring back Rose – Hell no.
      What about Melo and LaLa – Seems like Dolan will end up paying LaLa a lot of moolah (via Melo alimony).
      Is KP ready to run the team – Yes. PJ said differently because KP blew off the exit interview.
      What’s the deal with PJ?
      OK, nobody asked that question but it’s at the heart of the Knick problem. Jackson was supposed to be the Zen Master, a motivator, an innovator. He has lost it all. What a bad move this was for his legacy. The players were motivated by him to shut down. He’s the exact opposite of what we hoped to get. I hoped that he would bring a measure of sanity to the team. He has brought chaos. Truth is that the only guy who had a clue about how to run a team was Donnie Walsh. Damn, I wish he was still here. Phil Jackson has to go. Now.

    41. Put In Rolando

      Phil is not the problem. I’m surprised how the media (NY tabloids and ESPN, among others) have miscast Phil’s press conference. I read many “Phil is so mean to Melo” articles, and then went to the video and saw Phil being honest and measured about his comments. The truth is that Melo wants to play basketball his way; he doesn’t want to (or cannot) pass, defend or block out for others to rebound. Phil is right. Melo doesn’t want coaching; he just wants to play. I hope Melo gets to a team where he is the third best player; then he’ll be “OlympicMelo” and he will have success. That will never happen with the Knicks. I will be happy when the Knicks are free from this drama.

    42. Cock Jowles, The Nostradumbass Who Still Beat Your Weak Preseason Picks

      The players may not have had an epiphany but were definitely energized by D’Antoni’s firing.

      ??????????????

      You could feel the energy from the team and a huge sense of relief.

      ??????????????

      When the Knicks make a move, I look to find a reason why it might work out. That doesn’t make me dumb.

      ??????????????

      You’re king of Knickerblogger and are always right.

      It’s not hard to be right when you’re criticizing ex post facto armchair psychology designed to explain an arbitrarily-chosen sample of successes while minimizing the 6-loss streak that preceded it and the absolute drubbing handed down by the Heat in the first round.

      I can tell you a fact: I did not try that hard to be right. I cannot tell you that the Knicks were not trying hard as a fact, because there’s no way to tell. You sitting near the bench at a game means you have access to the feelings of the players? Are you serious? And then you have the gall to tell me I’m just being overly critical by reminding you of your narrative-weaving?

    43. DS

      Does anyone take comfort in the fact that if T-Wolves do pick ahead of the Knicks that Scott Layden will be making that pick?

    44. JK47

      Phil is not the problem. I’m surprised how the media (NY tabloids and ESPN, among others) have miscast Phil’s press conference. I read many “Phil is so mean to Melo” articles, and then went to the video and saw Phil being honest and measured about his comments. The truth is that Melo wants to play basketball his way; he doesn’t want to (or cannot) pass, defend or block out for others to rebound. Phil is right.

      You do realize that Phil Jackson is the guy who signed Carmelo Anthony to a max contract extension in hopes that he would suddenly become a willing passer and good defensive player after 30,000 minutes in the NBA, correct?

    45. Frank O.

      Frankly, Melo getting a stripper pregnant is the kind of dumb thing I can see him doing.
      After years of watching him say dumb things and doing dumb things on the court, the stripper thing seems consistent however cliche it is.
      I mean, he’s not the first NBA player to avail himself of a stripper. I seem to recall Ewing getting into some stripper issues…but what NBA player has sex with a stripper, while married, and without a glove?
      I mean, rookies get training on shit like this.

      good riddance.

    46. Put In Rolando

      @58 … yes, I am aware of that. I am looking forward to reading Phil’s next book that explains that. I will never understand his thinking on that. Did Dolan make that decision? I doubt it, based on what Phil has publicly stated. It was a mistake and it has caused many problems now. And, yet, Phil is still not the problem.

    47. Z-man

      Well, at least we’ll get another great Brian Cronin “Famous moments in Knicks history…What if…” post. Just call it the Maurice Ndour shot that cost us to miss out on an immortal by one spot.

      Or maybe we jump to #3, pick can’t miss prospect Josh Johnson who turns into a bust, and Minnesota reluctantly drafts future HOFer and immortal Frank Ntilikina at #7.

    48. Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada

      like we can never actually catch a break holy shit

      if we drop to 8 that’s going to be absolutely soul-crushing.

    49. thenoblefacehumper

      The second Ndour’s shot went in I think we all knew we’d lose the coin flip

    50. TheOakmanCometh

      I have never been less surprised about anything than us losing the coin flip.

      I can’t wait to draft the next Mike Sweetney/Jordan Hill at #8 after a string of superstars goes #1-7.

    51. Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada

      It’s just so demoralizing being a Knicks fan

      When’s the last time something like this actually broke our way?

      I guess we can hope for that 18% chance at a top 3 pick…

    52. Grocer

      I read many “Phil is so mean to Melo” articles, and then went to the video and saw Phil being honest and measured about his comments.

      You don’t seem to have understood them. A, Phil announced that he wants to trade Melo at a press conference, before actually talking to Melo about it. This is serious disrespect, considering the exit interviews were later that day and Phil had apparently already told Melo they would talk about the situation there. It’s a move guaranteed to piss off Melo, and most of your other players too. Simply put, you should not treat your employees that way if you want a well run organization. B, Phil needs Melo to sign off on any trade. Ideally, Melo would be cooperative and help the Knicks out. Melo’s best move is probably to sit tight and wait to be waived then he gets his pick of offers that have a lot more flexibility. Pissing him off makes that more likely. C, Phil needs other teams to have an interest in Melo if he wants to move him. Running down your guy right before you want to trade him is counter-indicated. And D, Phil said a whole bunch of other shit in that press conference which was straight out bullshit. You don’t get to blame your coach when you force him to change his offensive scheme mid-season and you hoist a specialist ‘defensive coach’ on him who absolutely sucks. You don’t get to blame your players for not playing defense when you knew they didn’t play defense when you hired them. This fucked up season is 100% Phil Jackson’s responsibility, and he blamed others.

      Lots of guys criticize their players publicly. Only one does it this stupidly, with so many obvious adverse consequences. What Phil did was definitively unprofessional. Reports from inside the Knicks depict a horribly run organization that’s failing on every level. Somehow Phil thinks the problem is not enough triangle. The problem is too much Phil.

    53. Grocer

      It was a mistake and it has caused many problems now. And, yet, Phil is still not the problem.

      We should def move Melo, but if you think the locker room problems are because of him that’s just, I dunno, willful blindness? The players don’t hate the triangle, they hate Phil. If you think Melo is the biggest reason the Knicks suck you are in for a big surprise next year.

    54. Grocer

      Look on the positive side, maybe the Wolves take Monk @ 6! That could be a strong move for them. Then we can take Frank and they will have saved us from ourselves.

    55. Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada

      I have faith that Adam Silver is smart enough to rig the draft for us so we can get Lavar Ball as close to MSG as humanly possible

    56. Cock Jowles, The Nostradumbass Who Still Beat Your Weak Preseason Picks

      being honest does not necessarily mean being professional

    57. Brian Cronin

      When’s the last time something like this actually broke our way?

      They won the Ewing sweepstakes! And hey, they could have fallen to #5 in 2015! So that’s something, at least.

    58. Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada

      Yeah, when I say “broke our way” I mean “legitimately good stroke of luck” rather than “we could’ve gotten fucked even worse.” I’m thinking Ewing is the last time something chance-based really, truly broke our way. And getting Starks as an UDFA.

    59. Brian Cronin

      While of course I’m disappointed in general, specifically, the only thing I am really worrying about now is falling to #8.

      At #8, now you’re probably looking at Dennis Smith or Malik Monk as your best bet.

      The top three seem like they’re not in doubt.

      So that leaves:

      Fox
      Smith
      Monk
      Isaac
      Tatum
      Ntilikina

      for the next six picks. If the Knicks are picking #8, then Tatum, Ntilikina, Isaac and Fox could all be off the ball. So long as the Knicks pick #7, at least one of those guys will still be on the board (maybe two, if Smith or Monk go earlier than I think they should).

      Congrats to the Wolves on some impressive tanking to get this high.

    60. Brian Cronin

      Yeah, when I say “broke our way” I mean “legitimately good stroke of luck” rather than “we could’ve gotten fucked even worse.” I’m thinking Ewing is the last time something chance-based really, truly broke our way. And getting Starks as an UDFA.

      I mean, they’ve had a lot of good things happen for them, they just often screw them up after that. They got Camby in a great deal and then traded him in a terrible deal. They got Grant in a great deal and then traded him in a terrible deal. Stuff like that.

      As for something that has broken their way recently, Billy has certainly been a godsend. It’s probably the best move of Jackson’s entire tenure here (KP might be a better player, but he was also the #1 ranked player on everyone’s big board when the Knicks were picking at #4, so that wasn’t as much of a lucky thing as getting Billy was).

    61. Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada

      There’s a decent chance that Isaac jumps up and gets picked by Orlando or Minnesota, which could bump Fox right down to #7. I think the Magic are picking Tatum or Isaac because Payton has started playing way better near the end of this year.

      But really we’re picking Frank and there’s no reason we should be looking at any player as a possible choice unless Fox is available which might make Phil think twice.

    62. Bruno Almeida

      I mean, wasn’t it obvious, it’s the Knicks.

      I’m like 99% sure we’re dropping to the 8th now… God.

      This is the knicksiest season of all recent seasons, I can’t even believe it.

    63. Brian Cronin

      There’s a decent chance that Isaac jumps up and gets picked by Orlando or Minnesota, which could bump Fox right down to #7. I think the Magic are picking Tatum or Isaac because Payton has started playing way better near the end of this year.

      But really we’re picking Frank and there’s no reason we should be looking at any player as a possible choice unless Fox is available which might make Phil think twice.

      I think Isaac rises, but I also think Ntilikina is the type of player that rises in drafts the closer we get to the draft, as well. I wouldn’t be shocked to see Ntilikina, Isaac and Tatum make up the top six. Ntilikina fits Philly very well, for instance.

    64. heavencent35

      What will we do if the wolves win the 1st pick.
      Please basketball gods give us a top 3 pick. We deserve it.
      Very sad for the Melo wedding news. It’s sad to hear a marriage fall.
      I’m sad for Melo. He should have been our Paul pierce.

    65. nicos

      Really, the only thing I worry about now is falling to #8.

      At #8, now you’re probably looking at Dennis Smith or Malik Monk as your best bet.

      The top three seem like they’re not in doubt.

      So that leaves:

      Fox
      Smith
      Monk
      Isaac
      Tatum
      Ntilikina

      for the next six picks. If the Knicks are picking #8, then Tatum, Ntilikina, Isaac and Fox could all be off the ball. So long as the Knicks pick #7, at least one of those guys will still be on the board (maybe two, if Smith or Monk go earlier than I think they should).

      I think there’s a chance either Markkanen or Collins goes top eight which would certainly help. Now my real fear is Phil assumes he can move Melo and takes Tatum then Melo refuses to leave. In a way I think the separation might make him even less likely to want to leave as he’ll want to make sure he sees his son as much as possible during the split. Whatever you want to say about Melo, he does seem to be a very involved father.

    66. Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada

      Since I’m pretty much equal on Smith and Frank–maybe even a slight advantage to Smith–I won’t be too disappointed if we end up with Dennis when it’s all said and done. But that’s only happening if Frank is off the board.

      I just want Silver to get us Lonzo. Get on that, NBA.

    67. Brian Cronin

      What will we do if the wolves win the 1st pick.

      We can always say it was with one of the combinations they would have had if they remained the #7 pick (since the Knicks and Wolves split the combinations assigned to the #6 spot and the combinations assigned to the #7 spot). ;)

    68. djphan

      #8 is going to be really tough since monk would have to jump ahead into the top 7 for one of the blue chip guys to fall to us… very possible.. but it’s a scary thought to think about if we’re choosing between monk or ntilikina… i would hope we’d have the balls to pick collins but i doubt he’s on our radar…

    69. Bruno Almeida

      If we end up with Monk there’s a very good possibility this team’s ceiling for the next 4/5 years is the 2017 Portland Trail Blazers.

      I’m still trying to remain hopeful that Isaac or Ntilikina will somehow end up on the Knicks since Fox is probably gone in most likely scenarios, I just hope it’s not Tatum.

    70. geo

      man, what the hell – we even suck at coin flips…fortunately, the wolves have at least a half dozen point guards on their roster so – fingers crossed, we have our choice of fox of frank…

    71. JK47

      Dolan’s Razor: The most annoying thing that can possibly happen is the thing that will happen.

    72. Brian Cronin

      I think there’s a chance either Markkanen or Collins goes top eight which would certainly help. Now my real fear is Phil assumes he can move Melo and takes Tatum then Melo refuses to leave. In a way I think the separation might make him even less likely to want to leave as he’ll want to make sure he sees his son as much as possible during the split. Whatever you want to say about Melo, he does seem to be a very involved father.

      Yeah, I’m totally lost on what the separation means for Melo. He famously wanted to go places that were got for his wife, but he also famously doesn’t want to mess with his son’s upbringing because he is still traumatized by being forced to move to Balitmore when he was a little kid. So for the sake of the Knicks, you’d like to believe that he’d be willing to open up his possible places where he’d be traded to, but it does seem a bit surprising to see him want to leave his son behind like this.

    73. Brian Cronin

      Hmmm…but then might he want to be close to his new kid, then? Is the stripper a New York one?

    74. Cock Jowles, The Nostradumbass Who Still Beat Your Weak Preseason Picks

      I’ve never seen such negativity.

      Aw, baby needs some more attention?

    75. Reub On Our Way To Greatness

      It’s a shame we lost the coin flip because we were taking Frank at #6.
      Now we’ll have to settle for Ntilikina at #7.

    76. DS

      Send ‘Melo back to Denver for Faried… he can chuck while being propped up by team players just like last time.

    77. Donnie Walsh

      I’m thinking Ewing is the last time something chance-based really, truly broke our way.

      Allan Houston’s bounce off of the glass in Miami, 1999.

    78. Reub On Our Way To Greatness

      All of that B.S. we’ve had to endure about how Melo can’t leave NY because he’s such a family man. Nonsense.

    79. Donnie Walsh

      I’m like 99% sure we’re dropping to the 8th now… God.

      I don’t know, I kind of like those odds for #9.

    80. Accidentank 2017

      I’m reading the women is not a stripper and that she’s actually a Northwestern graduate with her master’s degree in communication.

      Here’s my crazy theory based on what I read:

      Melo has been unfaithful to LaLa for many years because he’s an NBA athlete with a superstar profile. “LaLa is married, but I’m not” appears to be his catch phrase. As terrible as that sounds, it appears LaLa knew about the cheating and in some way agreed to the terms. I mean hey, Derrick Rose’s child’s mother is still with him and he just had a rape case. Dwyane Wade got another woman pregnant while married to Gabrielle Union. LaLa and Melo aren’t splitting because of the cheating; they’re splitting because of the Knicks’ situation where Melo will very likely have to leave town. They were seen together as recently as Saturday at Kiyan’s basketball game. The cheating of course doesn’t help, but they’ve been separated for months (you know, like since the heavy trade rumors in January that Phil would trade Melo for a bag of beans).

      Melo is leaving town. The question is where will he actually go and what will we get back for him. If I’m the Knicks, I’m taking a 2018 draft pick off somebody; we need to be in position to get one of the stud wings in next year’s class. Michael Porter Jr and Luka Doncic are the best wing prospects of the decade and you can’t triangle without wings.

    81. JK47

      Nobody is giving us a freakin’ unprotected lottery pick for Carmelo Anthony. You want Michael Porter or DeAndre Ayton or Luka Doncic, you’re gonna have to tank your way into it. Nobody is going to paper over the Melo mistake for us. The Knicks would be lucky to get a nominal asset for him at this point.

    82. Accidentank 2017

      Don’t underestimate desperation. I would have screamed from the top of my lungs that:

      1) Nobody would trade 3 1st round picks for Paul Pierce and KG in 2014.
      2) Nobody would trade James Harden to keep Kendrick freaking Perkins.
      3) Nobody would Knicks.
      4) Nobody would trade Nerlens Noel for literally nothing.
      5) Nobody would sign Jamal Crawford to anything more than a minimum salary deal.
      6) Nobody would give JR Smith $55M.

    83. Accidentank 2017

      Oh, I would like to formally disappoint everybody first by saying the Knicks will not get their hands on Frank Ntilikina. Remember the last two times the Knicks were heavily interested in a guard? Well that would be 2008 when Donnie Walsh loved Russell Westbrook and in 2009 when Donnie Walsh loved Stephen Curry. The Frank love is too big and the 76ers are definitely drafting him.

    84. Cock Jowles, The Nostradumbass Who Still Beat Your Weak Preseason Picks

      7. Nobody will “re”sign d.rose for a multi year contract.

      [my skin crawling]

    85. Cock Jowles, The Nostradumbass Who Still Beat Your Weak Preseason Picks

      Remember the last two times the Knicks were heavily interested in a guard? Well that would be 2008 when Donnie Walsh loved Russell Westbrook and in 2009 when Donnie Walsh loved Stephen Curry. The Frank love is too big and the 76ers are definitely drafting him.

      Now, in the interest of full Knicksing, just imagine Russell Westbrook being forced to run a slowed-down half-court offense instead of the PNR/fastbreak game, or Curry playing the Derek Fisher role as a weakside guard standing near halfcourt waiting for Carmelo [Kobe] to not pass him the ball before taking a contested mid-range fadeaway. Only then will you have Knicks.

    86. 2FOR18

      Jowles is right about things that are obvious to anyone who’s not a mindless fan boy.
      Anyone who liked the Bargs, Rose, Noah, and melo MMM moves were so spectacularly wrong that they need to man up and stfu about it. For fucks sake there are people on here, after all that we’ve seen, still advocating resigning rose.

      And by man up, I do not mean saying that you’re wrong and then proceeding to insult the people who were right about water being wet.

    87. MSA

      Melo and his knocked up stripper + alimony for the Lakers #28 pick, Swaggy P and Iggy Azalea.

      Who says no?

    88. d-mar

      I’m thinking Ewing is the last time something chance-based really, truly broke our way.

      Hue Hollins phantom foul call on Scottie Pippen to give the Knicks the win over the Bulls in the 1994 playoffs.

    89. Accidentank 2017

      @115, in any year prior to this one, I would have called that a bad idea. But in 2017 where Donald Trump is president, I’m just gonna go with the trend and call that “alternative thinking.”

      The Knicks: Where Alternative Thinking Is Encouraged and No Idea Is Too Alternative.

    90. yellowboy90

      This may open the door to DSJr who I think is and will be better than Fox. He reminds me of two players Lowry and Eric Bledsoe but taller and bigger. Honestly, I hope the top 6 goes like DraftExpress’ mock leaving Isaac, Ntilikina, and Smith still on the board. I have them ranked in that order after Fultz and Ball in my top 5.

    91. Accidentank 2017

      Frank Ntilikina and Dennis Smith Jr are my two favorite guys for us at our draft slots. I let go of Johnathan Isaac the moment we lost the coin flip.

    92. Brian Cronin

      I don’t like sites that give the Kings a 2.8% chance of winning the lottery. They have a 0% chance of winning the lottery, as the Sixers have swap rights with them, so there’s no way for the Kings to get the #1 pick under any circumstance.

    93. dtrickey

      I don’t like sites that give the Kings a 2.8% chance of winning the lottery. They have a 0% chance of winning the lottery, as the Sixers have swap rights with them, so there’s no way for the Kings to get the #1 pick under any circumstance.

      I feel like this was brushed over so much outside of a couple of NBA commentators and here on KB at the time of the Cousins trade.

    94. stratomatic

      For fucks sake there are people on here, after all that we’ve seen, still advocating resigning rose.

      No one here is advocating signing Rose. I think everyone thinks it would be a bad idea. I thought it was a horrible idea to begin with. However, if you read the tea leaves….

      1. We need a starting PG, but it is unlikely any of the 19 year old PGs in the draft are going to be ready to step in and lead the team immediately (assuming we draft one). That’s makes it somewhat likely we bring in someone as a placeholder while our draft pick develops – unless you think Phil thinks the Knicks can be competitive with Baker or Randle as the starter.

      2. Melo looks more likely to leave every day.

      3. Phil Jackson does not believe KP is ready to be the #1 scorer on a consistent basis for 75 or more games in a season (neither do I).

      4. If Melo and Rose leave, that means the Knicks need a #1 or at least a co #1 scorer to go along with a PG.

      5. Phil Jackson will clearly try to build a team that can be competitive every night again (at a minimum to keep KP happy). He may fail, but it’s 100% certain he knows that the Knicks will need another scorer to be competitive.

      6. Phil Jackson didn’t say anything negative about Rose at the presser. He was positive and said that Rose wants to come back. More than one source suggested the Knicks like Rose’s work ethic and thought he was leaning and getting better all season.

      Those are the facts as I know them.

      I can’t help but look at those facts and conclude that if the Knicks don’t get one of their primary PG targets as a free agent (Holiday, Teague, Hill or someone else), then Rose is coming back on a short term contract as a place holder.

      That’s not me advocating it. That’s me telling everyone I believe it’s on the radar and probably their plan B. All the whining in world is not going to change that.

    95. Accidentank 2017

      So if Boston loses this series what are the chances that they blow this team up? We need them to win so they can have more of a reason to trade for Melo.

    96. Reub On Our Way To Greatness

      I wonder if Teodosic is in our cards? He might be the best value out there at PG.

    97. stratomatic

      So if Boston loses this series what are the chances that they blow this team up? We need them to win so they can have more of a reason to trade for Melo.

      No one mentions Chicago anymore, but I don’t see why they aren’t in the mix also. It’s a big market, they are a playoff team, Wade is there, they could use another scorer that can hits 3s, and they have a few pieces we might want.

    98. djphan

      monk can be a mccollum or eric gordon… but even at their absolute best are they even all that great? that’s what you get with an undersized scoring guard who doesn’t really do much else but score… and then you have oj mayo and other players in that comp that posted similar numbers but failed at the next level…

      it all adds up to an ok prospect but the chasm between monk and someone like fox or smith is wide…

    99. Reub On Our Way To Greatness

      The Bulls could definitely be in the mix. And obviously there’s a history there.

    100. Accidentank 2017

      Melo to the Bulls for pretty much anything + their 2018 1st round pick so we can capitalize when they bottom out with all three of Rondo, Wade, and Melo being over the hill would be a dream come true.

    101. Accidentank 2017

      Malik Monk will never ever be as good as McCollum or Iverson because he has no handle. Those guys are two of the best ball handlers of their respective generations.

    102. Accidentank 2017

      Rondo, Wade, Butler, Melo, and Lopez. That team would have won a championship in 2014.

    103. nicos

      Malik Monk will never ever be as good as McCollum or Iverson because he has no handle. Those guys are two of the best ball handlers of their respective generations.

      He’s nothing like Iverson but I think his handle will improve- He’s more of a combo guard than he showed at Kentucky. The guy who he reminds me of is Andrew Toney who was part of the early 80s Sixers team that won the championship. I think it’s possible that he winds up being pretty good (I think he has the potential to be a decent defender despite his size) though I really hope the Knicks don’t take him.

    104. DRed

      Lopez didn’t have that great of a season, but Boston is an incredibly shitty defensive rebounding team. I am surprised boy genius hasn’t been able to figure out it’s hard to play good defense if they other guys can just rebound their missed shots, but I’m just some guy on the internet.

    105. thenoblefacehumper

      Watching guys the Knicks dumped for nothing contribute meaningfully in the playoffs is a time honored tradition.

    106. Accidentank 2017

      Robin Lopez was NOT dumped for nothing.

      We got Justin Holiday and a 2nd round pick back.

    107. thenoblefacehumper

      Justin Holiday is an unrestricted free agent, and there is often a pick sold before #44. There’s very little to hang our hats on with that trade.

    108. Reub On Our Way To Greatness

      Jerian Grant is 0 for 3 with 0 pts, 0 assists and 0 rebounds going into the 4th quarter.

    109. MSA

      We got Justin Holiday and a 2nd round pick back.

      We got the privilege to overpay for Holiday this summer and a 2nd round pick back.

      I corrected for you.

    110. DRed

      In any event, watching Boston get run off their home court by a pedestrian Bulls team is pretty fucking funny

    111. Z-man

      NBA radio just pointed out that Brad Stevens, at 2-10, has the worst record for his first 12 playoff games any coach in the history of the NBA .

      So much for the boy genius.

      Look, I know Isaiah had a terrible break, but these losses are not on him. The Celts can’t shoot 3’s, rebound, or protect the rim, making them incredibly vulnerable to the old-school brand of basketball that the Bulls play. And Butler and Rondo are a great defensive combo, forcing the Celt’s front line to score.

      Can you imagine the #1 seeded Celts getting swept?

    112. Accidentank 2017

      Frank Ntilikina is built just like George Hill, except George Hill is 3 inches shorter and probably has shorter arms too. Wow.

    113. Z-man

      Frank is built like a cross between Jerry West and Oscar Robertson, only with a longer wingspan.

    114. Zanzibar

      Jerian Grant is horrible though. No sarcasm.

      You realize this is his first playoffs? And click HERE to view 2nd year players in descending order of WS/48. One reub on this board is more than enough.

    115. Accidentank 2017

      It’s been my position since he was drafted by the Knicks that Jerian Grant was a long shot because of his awkward style of play. His eFG/TS% splits are night and day since he left the Knicks, but I’m not crying over him. He’s 25 years old in 6 months.

    116. d-mar

      My son predicted that good Rondo would re-emerge to torment his old team. I had a hard time buying it, but there it is.

      Although Boston has no rim protectors to bother Rondo and also can’t rebound for shit (which is why Rolo looks so good)

    117. GoNyGoNyGo

      @1 – Totes

      Wow. I am sorry to hear about Melo & LaLa. This has been unequivocally Melo’s worst year in the NBA. I really hope they find a way to work it out.

      Yeah, you posted many hours ago.
      More info is out and I am disgusted, appalled. Sorry, I do not condone this kind of behavior and I hope she drains every dime in his bank account.

      But that’s between Lala and Melo and a flock of lawyers. What I care about is the Knicks and when you learn that the face of your franchise is a cheating SOB, it means you need a new face of the franchise. Is this the cheater that we want mentoring our young players? Hell no!

      It’s becoming apparent that the Knicks are are a festering boil. From top to bottom this team disgusts me. The talent is there. There’s no heart. There’s no soul. Gut the friggin team!

    118. yellowboy90

      Well who needs Grant when Phil has Baker. I can’t wait for him to get more than Grant. lol

      Also, Joe Johnson is showing Doc why he needs Melo. ; )

    119. Cock Jowles, The Nostradumbass Who Still Beat Your Weak Preseason Picks

      I think it was a month ago that we talked about how much better the Cavs were constructed for the playoffs than the Cs, at least in regard to their top 6 players. The Celtics losing their first two games at home is totally left field, though. Some lucky idiot in Chicago is about to win some real cash on that series.

    120. Hugo Busto

      people are really getting really mad that a multi millionaire professional athlete cheated on his wife?

      oh please, get over it

    121. dtrickey

      Man. Boston has really taken a tumble against the Bulls. Still a good chance Boston fights back, but man would it be hilarious if they get eliminated a la Dallas circa 2007. If you have picked that, you should probably go buy a lottery ticket.

      As for Melo’s personal stuff, it sucks he has separated from his wife, but the only Melo news I am interested in is where he is playing next season. Tabloid news is hardly legitimate journalism, so grain of salt really. Just give us updates on where he is playing next year!!!

    122. fmikieo

      I’m amazed that nobody remembers moving Calderon and his contract in the Bulls trade. Or that that trade turned 7 Mil of cap space this off season into 21 Mil.

      But, whatever.

    123. Nick C.

      or that another season was wasted as the Knicks were Derrick Rose’s got paid to use the season to build his value for his next contract irrespective of whether that led to, you know, making the team better project. Meanwhile, Joakim Noah was signed to fill the void created by trading Robin Lopez. Whatever.

    124. er

      I think the Celtics show that draft picks are kind of overvalued. Think about it, if the Bulls offered Butler for the Nets pick. The Celtics would have said no and we would have agreed. But is that smart? I’m beginning to think no. The Celtixs are a sneaky older team and the window won’t be open forever. Fultz or Ball won’t help them win a title in the next few years but Butler could have been a cog to a finals run

    125. er

      or that another season was wasted as the Knicks were Derrick Rose’s got paid to use the season to build his value for his next contract irrespective of whether that led to, you know, making the team better project. Meanwhile, Joakim Noah was signed to fill the void created by trading Robin Lopez. Whatever.

      I think the trade is fine by itself. The Noah deal just destroys any net gain from that trade

    126. stratomatic

      What I care about is the Knicks and when you learn that the face of your franchise is a cheating SOB, it means you need a new face of the franchise. Is this the cheater that we want mentoring our young players? Hell no!

      I’m not sure most people think this is an issue because we’ve had quite a few presidents of the United States that did far worse than have a single affair. Of course, depending on the party you belong to, the press can be more or less forgiving. Not sure how that dynamic works with basketball.

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