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Saturday, June 24, 2017

Knicks Morning News (2017.04.15)

  • [ESPN] Playoffs and lottery will decide where Melo goes next
    (Friday, April 14, 2017 5:13:45 PM)

    Playoffs and lottery will decide where Melo goes next

  • [NYPost] Phil Jackson’s coaching dream wrecking his Knicks presidency
    (Friday, April 14, 2017 11:47:48 PM)

    There’s no reason to feel good about the Knicks’ future as a franchise as long as Phil Jackson, the coach, keeps undermining Phil Jackson, the team president. That conflict was evident during Jackson’s season-ending press conference Friday that sounded more like a coaching clinic than an explanation for one of the worst seasons in the…

  • [NYPost] Frustrated Kristaps Porzingis blows off Knicks exit interview
    (Friday, April 14, 2017 5:46:32 PM)

    Kristaps Porzingis skipped his exit meeting with Knicks president Phil Jackson and general manager Steve Mills on Thursday, a source confirmed to The Post. Porzingis was outspoken about the club’s “confusion’’ during the season and skipped the meeting because of dysfunction that could lead Carmelo Anthony to be traded this summer. Then on Friday, Porzingis “liked’’ Anthony’s Instagram…

  • [NYPost] Carmelo Anthony could land with one of these five teams
    (Friday, April 14, 2017 3:40:54 PM)

    Five potential trade destinations for Carmelo Anthony: Cavaliers: If Cavaliers don’t win the title, you would think LeBron James will attempt to make this happen. Clippers: Chris Paul is a free agent, and if L.A. exits the postseason early, he could demand Anthony’s addition as requirement for him to stay. Celtics: Another team approached at…

  • [NYPost] Phil Jackson’s don’t-blame-me Knicks address a disgrace
    (Friday, April 14, 2017 1:55:45 PM)

    When Phil Jackson borrows from Harry S. Truman — one President to another — and says, in his annual address to Knicks fans, “I never took a jump shot, never made a substitution but the buck stops here,” he is, of course, bastardizing the famous saying that adorned Truman’s desk and often tumbled off his…

  • [NYPost] Derrick Rose, Knicks weirdly seem to have mutual interest
    (Friday, April 14, 2017 12:15:45 PM)

    Phil Jackson has not given up on re-signing Derrick Rose despite the point guard’s fourth career knee operation earlier this month. In surprisingly positive remarks, Jackson said he was impressed with Rose’s attitude in his exit interview Friday and desire to return to the Knicks despite his stated mixed feelings on the triangle. Rose is…

  • [NYPost] Phil Jackson tells the world: It’s time for Carmelo to go
    (Friday, April 14, 2017 10:51:57 AM)

    Knicks president Phil Jackson on Friday trumpeted the worst-kept secret in the NBA, stating boldly it is time for Carmelo Anthony to accept a trade, and he will shop him this offseason to a contender. In a wide-ranging 49-minute press conference, Jackson said he made his intention clear in his “not-contentious” exit meeting with Anthony,…

  • [NY Newsday] Source: Frustrated Kristaps Porzingis skipped exit meeting with Knicks
    (Friday, April 14, 2017 9:57:00 PM)

    The Knicks might have bigger concerns than trying to trade Carmelo Anthony.

  • [NY Newsday] Despite 11 rings as a coach, Phil Jackson has plenty to prove
    (Friday, April 14, 2017 8:49:48 PM)

    GREENBURGH, N.Y.

  • [NY Newsday] Phil Jackson says Carmelo Anthony is ‘better off somewhere else’
    (Friday, April 14, 2017 8:38:33 PM)

    GREENBURGH, N.Y. — Phil Jackson said Friday that it would be better for Carmelo Anthony and the Knicks if Anthony were on a different team next season.

  • [NYDN] Phil Jackson officially makes Carmelo Anthony fall guy for Knicks
    (Friday, April 14, 2017 10:08:25 PM)

    The genuine fear is that Dolan and Anthony may have been the victims of an elaborate basketball Ponzi scheme.

  • [NYDN] Knicks prez to be more involved, even if it undermines Hornacek
    (Friday, April 14, 2017 9:59:29 PM)

    Phil Jackson believes the Knicks season went sour when he went on vacation, and moving forward he wants to be more hands-on.

  • [NYDN] Phil Jackson told Knicks star Melo he’s better off somewhere else
    (Friday, April 14, 2017 9:58:44 PM)

    Phil Jackson publicly sent Carmelo Anthony to the trading block: They are no longer a fit. It was a failure and it’s time to move on.

  • [NYDN] Kristaps Porzingis blows off exit meeting with Phil Jackson
    (Friday, April 14, 2017 5:21:39 PM)

    Phil Jackson has bigger problems than Carmelo Anthony.

  • [NYDN] Phil Jackson: Kristaps Porzingis not ready to be Knicks leader
    (Friday, April 14, 2017 4:12:55 PM)

    Phil Jackson wants Carmelo Anthony gone but doesn’t think Kristaps Porzingis is ready to step into those Nike’s.

  • [NYTimes] Phil Jackson Says Carmelo Anthony ‘Would Be Better Off Somewhere Else’
    (Saturday, April 15, 2017 12:18:51 AM)

    Anthony retains a no-trade clause that gives him final say over where he is dealt, but Jackson, the team president, made his preference clear.

  • [NYTimes] Kelsey Plum Is a Lot Like James Harden. But Is It a Left-Handed Compliment?
    (Friday, April 14, 2017 2:15:07 PM)

    Plum, the top pick in the W.N.B.A. draft on Thursday, is a prolific lefty like Harden. But she hopes that female players will soon be a measuring stick.

  • [NYTimes] A Spur Takes His Game (and Flannel Shirts) to the TV Studio
    (Friday, April 14, 2017 10:24:47 PM)

    Matt Bonner, a fan favorite in San Antonio for 10 seasons, has moved quickly into his new role as a studio analyst for Spurs’ broadcasts. The cheap ties? They’re new.

  • [NYTimes] On Pro Basketball: Knicks’ Phil Jackson Breaks the Silence, but the Turmoil Is Intact
    (Saturday, April 15, 2017 1:19:10 AM)

    Speaking to local reporters he had avoided since September, Jackson, the team’s president for three seasons, said the Knicks were still several years away from being a contender.

  • [NYTimes] To David Robinson, the Harden-Westbrook Matchup Feels Familiar
    (Friday, April 14, 2017 11:55:31 PM)

    Two elite players set to go head-to-head in the N.B.A. playoffs: Robinson recalls his battle with Hakeem Olajuwon in the 1995 Western Conference finals.

  • [SNY Knicks] Kristaps Porzingis reportedly skips Knicks exit meetings
    (Friday, April 14, 2017 11:22:52 PM)

    Kristaps Porzingis declined to attend team exit meetings at the conclusion of the New York Knicks season, Ian Begley of ESPN reported on Friday night.

  • [SNY Knicks] Daily News Live: Phil sounds off on Carmelo
    (Friday, April 14, 2017 5:50:01 PM)

    The Daily News Live panels discusses Phil Jackson’s end of the season press conference.

  • [SNY Knicks] Phil says Melo would be ‘better off somewhere else’
    (Friday, April 14, 2017 3:00:29 PM)

    Jackson recently met with Anthony, explaining to him during that meeting why he thinks it’s time for the two sides to part ways.

  • [SNY Knicks] Rose told Jackson he wants to return to Knicks
    (Friday, April 14, 2017 5:00:58 PM)

    The 28-year-old Rose averaged 18 points, 4.4 assists, and 3.8 rebounds in 64 games with the Knicks this season.

  • [SNY Knicks] Willy Hernangomez named Rookie of the Month for April
    (Friday, April 14, 2017 12:20:00 PM)

    With Joakim Noah out, Hernangomez saw his playing time increase dramatically during the second half of the season.

  • 209 comments on “Knicks Morning News (2017.04.15)

    1. Totes McGoats

      I’m wondering if the C’s would agree to a Melo deal centered around Avery Bradley. I think Marcus Smart, albeit not as good as Bradley, makes him sort of expendable. I just think they can’t continue to be such a tiny team in the backcourt. The combination of Smart and Brown at the 2 should go well for them- provided they knock down open shots. This would allow the C’s to add Melo while keeping most of the rotation intact, and allow Phil to draft the BPA and not necessarily hafta possibly reach for a PG depending on where the pick lands

    2. fmikieo

      I honestly do not understand the sports media industry.

      I listened to yesterday’s news conference and liked Phil’s answers pertaining to Carmelo, Derrick Rose and, in particular, his vision for what a Knicks player should look like. And I appreciated his honesty with regards to assigning responsibility, even for himself.

      In reference to Carmelo, Phil basically repeated what has been said on this board: that Carmelo can score, stops ball movement, and doesn’t put forth the consistent 2-way effort that Phil will be looking for from future player acquisitions. And this season’s troubles came from a number of factors.

      And the press universally roasted him for it, claiming that he blamed the season’s failures squarely on Carmelo. Which, by the way, HE DID NOT SAY.

      On some level, Knick-bashing and Phil-bashing has acculturated itself across the sports media industry (and, by extension to many fans) into a massive form of groupthink.

    3. Philmelo

      On some level, Knick-bashing and Phil-bashing has acculturated itself across the sports media industry (and, by extension to many fans) into a massive form of groupthink.

      Pretty much.

    4. MSA

      As much as I love KP, he was extremely immature yesterday.

      You don’t agree with your boss? Boo hoo, welcome to the real world.

    5. Ingmarrr

      @4 Exactly. If they don’t fine him they’ll repeat the mistake they did with Rose. KP violated team rules. He should be punished.

    6. Zanzibar

      So KP or his brother reads knickerblogger.net. How do I know? Remember I wrote a couple of months ago that KP should follow Kareem’s training program. Kareem had trained with Bruce Lee 2 hours a day for 4 days/week during 1967-1971 period (KP’s age). Bruce also trained many of the leading martial artists of that day. His training regimen was centered about building strength and stamina while maintaining agility. Boxing was a major part of it. Kareem played until he was 42yo and was very productive until the final 2 years. So here’s what KP said:

      I’m going to be lifting and I’ll be boxing and some things I haven’t done before,” Porzingis said. “I’m going to work on some things that are not attached to basketball and maybe that might help my game”

      So now that I have your attention KP, listen up. Stay out of the MSG political stuff. You shouldn’t have liked Melo’s instagram. Sure Phil gave you a minor diss the other day but he’s just tryin’ to motivate you. You’re becoming Shumpified. Like you, the fans took to Shumpert but he got a big head and became complacent and didn’t work hard enough on his game. You’re lagging Dirk’s and Pau’s progress – even Cody Zeller – at the same age. You need to stop talkin’ and start working to where you’re able the walk the walk.

    7. Reub On Our Way To Greatness

      Well said, Zanzibar. While KP is emulating Jabbar’s workouts let him also learn Jabbar’s skyhook so that he finally has an interior game. Settling for early, forced threes is lazy and unproductive.
      Oh, and Melo must not be allowed back under any circumstances for the cancer he’s become.

    8. Z-man

      It is entertaining that Phil did this press conference, but also highly unprofessional. Why can’t he just quietly go about his business like other GMs do? Obviously having a big mouth is just who he is, so it’s not surprising at all, but it just makes him and the franchise look so bad. As to KP, I love the kid and have no problem with him passively-aggressively standing up to the dysfunction at MSG. It’s a fine-worthy offense, but if I were Phil, I would let it go. Phil did say that KP is not ready to be the face of the franchise, which is the biggest tweak of all, but pretty accurate based on his play this year. Phil essentially said that KP has a long way to go before he earns the star status he has been prematurely given.

      Let’s see what happens. Should be an interesting off-season.

    9. Reub On Our Way To Greatness

      Woj is saying that we’re considering trading KP in the offseason. Wow! Let’s do KP for Fultz and draft Zach Collins.

      Fultz/Baker
      Lee/ Rivers
      Willy/O’Quinn/Plumlee
      Collins/Ndour/Lance
      Holiday/Kuz/PJ Tucker

      Interesting lineup.

    10. Philmelo

      Woj is saying that we’re considering trading KP in the offseason. Wow! Let’s do KP for Fultz and draft Zach Collins.

      That was a fake account.

      LOL

    11. Reub On Our Way To Greatness

      Phil did say that KP wasn’t untouchable even if the tweet was a fake one.

    12. d-mar

      Phil’s comment that 3 pointers are “cheap points” was so mind numbingly idiotic that it gives me zero confidence that he’ll make the right off season moves.

      Future tweet: “that guy is so overrated, he gets all his points from the 3 point line. Sad”

    13. english_knick

      Look, Phil has been awful, for sure. But so many of his comments yesterday have been reported out of context. He said KP takes the three as an easy way out sometimes and that it can be a way for players to try to get cheap points rather than looking for the better shot. That’s true – as was much of what he said. Yep tabloids’ reporting of the press conference is so misleading.

    14. er

      I listened to yesterday’s news conference and liked Phil’s answers pertaining to Carmelo, Derrick Rose and, in particular, his vision for what a Knicks player should look like. And I appreciated his honesty with regards to assigning responsibility, even for himself.

      Phil took ZERO responsibility for anything. I don’t know what you listened to. He spoke as a coach when he is two levels removed (Steve Mills is the Gm)

      His basic vibe was Melo, we can’t win with him. (Knicks. Eon 55% of games with Melo before Phil) oh and We need players…..well moron, you thought Derrick Rose and Noah were players….fuck Phil

    15. Philmelo

      I can understand why people are tired of both Phil and Melo. What I don’t understand why people who give Phil shit for not taking responsibility are the same ones who give the players a free pass for not doing their part. Both are wrong in this equation. Ultimately, the problem lies in the fact that we are spending a major sum of the team’s cap room on a fading leader who doesn’t play defense or within the team concept. Phil’s incompetence lied in giving this player a NTC, but again, why are these people mad at him for it when he showed faith in the guy?

    16. er

      What I don’t understand why people who give Phil shit for not taking responsibility are the same ones who give the players a free pass for not doing their part. Both are wrong in this equation. Ultimately, the problem lies in the fact that we are spending a major sum of the team’s cap room on a fading leader who doesn’t play defense or within the team concept. Phil’s incompetence lied in giving this player a NTC, but again, why are these people mad at him for it when he showed faith in the guy?

      The difference is that Phil controls the direction of the team. Its not that hard to figure out. This is not some equal thing. Spare me with the “showed faith” Phil never wanted Melo and he should have let him go if that’s how he felt”

    17. er

      Phil fired a coach in his second year because he didn’t run enough triangle.

      “Yahoo! Sports’ Adrian Wojnarowski wrote that Fisher “strayed too much from the offense.” Frank Isola of the New York Daily News said it didn’t sit right with Jackson that Fisher ran a more traditional pick-and-roll offense in tight games. Jackson confidant Charley Rosen wrote for Today’s Fastbreak that Fisher had a “stubborn insistence” of wanting the Knicks to play faster and run more pick-and-roll.”

    18. er

      And all of this is cool with that fuck face Dolan because he doesn’t have to feel the wrath of these decisions while still taking in the cash. What a team!

    19. er

      He said KP takes the three as an easy way out sometimes and that it can be a way for players to try to get cheap points rather than looking for the better shot.

      Phil also apparently doesn’t know the definition of “criticism”

    20. yellowboy90

      Players do not get a free pass but more responsability is place on the guy who knowingly brought in flawed players expecting the triangle to convert them into better players. If you give an aging player a ntc knowing he doesn’t play consistent defense why continually surround him with poor defensive players and old players on their last legs? So why in the world will I waste my time complaining about D.Rose, Calderon, Melo, Dalembert, Seraphin, AA, D.Will, Lee, and etc when I already knew what kind of players they were?

    21. bockadoo

      OMG. This franchise just goes on and on like a car accident that you look at as you drive by and shake your head. I have been a fan suffering through years of John Gianelli, Ken Bannister, Ticky Burden, Dennis Mo Layton, Toby Knight, Pat Cummings led teams. Phil Jackson grows up on Red Holzman defense, share the ball principals. He re-signs Melo and trades for Derek Rose. I don’t get it. He plays head games with KP who is a hard working good character guy with unlimited potential. I am at the point where I don’t even argue with my wife anymore about things anymore. I don’t think I can be a Knick fan anymore. I have no fight left in me.

    22. yellowboy90

      Everyone should have known something is wrong when he stated he brought in players to provide support for KP, ummm hmmmm Melo and Lance.

      Lance? Really? He is a cornerstone? Lol

    23. Philmelo

      Phil did say that KP wasn’t untouchable even if the tweet was a fake one.

      There’s a wide gulf between this and the tripe you were presenting.

    24. Philmelo

      The difference is that Phil controls the direction of the team.

      Clearly he doesn’t. He gave away a major part of that power upon offering Melo a NTC. Again, it was a dumb move, but its insane to suggest Phil has been free to do what he wants with the team when he can’t even trade its biggest asset and the asset doesn’t want to play to win.

    25. er

      You fucking moron he gave him the NTC. THAT IS CONTROL. HE IS THE PRESIDENT.

      You acting like he was hamstrung.

      “but its insane to suggest Phil has been free to do what he wants with the team ”

      UGHHHHHHHHHH

      I hate talking to u on here!

    26. Philmelo

      So why in the world will I waste my time complaining about D.Rose, Calderon, Melo, Dalembert, Seraphin, AA, D.Will, Lee, and etc when I already knew what kind of players they were?

      That’s one half of a very important question, the other being why are guys like Melo and Rose complaining about Phil when they know what kind of a coach/exec he is? Phil made a good faith deal with Melo to bring him back so they could retool and make a run. Melo, and later Rose, understood the type of philosophy and scheme Phil wanted for this team. It was no secret that he wanted a balanced team oriented offensive basketball with players who made the effort on defense. They didn’t fill their part of the bargain. And while I am super-turned off in the way Phil has addressed the matter, he’s not wrong in calling them out for it. Its not like this public form of shaming hasn’t been his MO since the Jordan/Pippen days.

    27. Philmelo

      You fucking moron he gave him the NTC. THAT IS CONTROL. HE IS THE PRESIDENT.

      Reread my point.

      He gave away a major part of that power upon offering Melo a NTC.

      I didn’t say Phil lacked total control when he gave the NTC, I said he gave it away upon offering it to Melo. It was a show of good faith in hopes Melo would acclimate to what Phil envisioned for the team.

      UGHHHHHHHHHH I hate talking to u on here!

      And yet here were are. You have serious issues, dude.

    28. yellowboy90

      How in the world did Melo know what kind of President Phil would be when he signed when Phil had zero history in that position. Phil had history in the type of player Melo was. Melo put his faith in the money and Phil.

      Melo, and later Rose, understood the type of philosophy and scheme Phil wanted for this team. It was no secret that he wanted a balanced team oriented offensive basketball with players who made the effort on defense.

      How the beck are the players suppose to know that when you personally select players that have consistently not made an effort on D?

      Phil is a walking contradiction. He will describe a list of reason as to why he wants a player and then use that same description as why he doesn’t want him.

      He has done this since the Tyson Chandler trade.

    29. Philmelo

      I can’t wait til Phil signs Rose this off season lmao

      Why would any Knicks fan want that except to be a spiteful little….oh…wait…nevermind….

      How in the world did Melo know what kind of President Phil would be when he signed when Phil had zero history in that position.

      Phil’s MO has been well established throughout his tenure as a head coach. They even sat down had extensive talks before Melo resigned. You’re telling me Melo didn’t know Phil would call him out like he’s called out MJ, Scottie, Shaq and Kobe in the past? You’re telling me Melo didn’t know Phil expected him to be a team oriented scorer, to play defense, to lead by example? Really?

      So, basically, I am supposed to believe Melo thought he was too good to be called out by Phil when MJ, Scottie, Shaq and Kobe were not. LOL.

      How the beck are the players suppose to know that when you personally select players that have consistently not made an effort on D?

      You need teammates to tell you that playing defense is part of Phil’s or any GM’s plan?

    30. er

      Why would any Knicks fan want that except to be a spiteful little….oh…wait…nevermind….

      Jackson re Rose:

      “He expressed the fact that he wants to be back,” Jackson told reporters. “We talked about going through rehab and work and whatever he has to do, and he has chosen to go back to Chicago to do that. He will be in L.A. But he also took the time out to say he really enjoyed playing here even with the losses, which, of course, surprises us a little bit because he’s been on some very successful teams. But he said he wants to have a chance to redeem himself as a player. Which, I like that attitude. I like who Derrick represents as himself. He’s a warrior directed at taking on the big challenges.”

      Maybe the that was Melo “controlling” Jackson’s mouth there idk

    31. Reub On Our Way To Greatness

      The only thing keeping the Knicks from greatness is Melo. Once he’s gone (and it is a must) this team will be great again. Just ask George Karl.

      Phil has had a total of ONE inherited first round pick in all of the time he’s been here so there was really not much that he could do so far. That will all change shortly. Without draft picks the team had no chance to improve markedly even though I believe that we really have anyway.

      Just rid us of cancerMelo.

    32. bobneptune

      Woj is saying that we’re considering trading KP in the offseason. Wow! Let’s do KP for Fultz and draft Zach Collins.

      Fultz/Baker
      Lee/ Rivers
      Willy/O’Quinn/Plumlee
      Collins/Ndour/Lance
      Holiday/Kuz/PJ Tucker

      Woj must have read my post from 2 days ago :-)

      But seriously, Where can Boston get a better big man who is young than KP. I don’t necessarily advocate the move, but it is malfeasance not to explore every possibility.

    33. Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada

      I’d do Melo and KP to Boston for both Brooklyn picks and would throw in our pick this year if they balked.

      But KP isn’t getting traded and we should see our future as one built around Billy and KP and that’s fine. I think KP will make the leap this offseason so unless that offer is on the table you don’t really seriously consider trading KP

    34. Reub On Our Way To Greatness

      @36 Bob, that Woj tweet was a fake but all options should be explored. Most importantly, Melo must not play for us ever again. That would immediately make us much better. Even if it means releasing him.

    35. swiftandabundant

      Man come on. Phils comments about KP were spot on. He wasn’t saying he shouldn’t take 3s. He was saying he sometimes takes too many bad 3s. We all watched KP do that this season and complained about how he was just parking out at the 3 point line. His outside shooting relative to his height makes him unique but he still needs to take more shots inside the paint and not just shoot 3s. Literally everyone on this board complained about that this season but when Phil says it he’s disrespecting KP and is an old fashioned idiot? Give me a fucking break. Phil had made a lot of bad moves and has made some good ones too. But this is being blown way out of proportion.

    36. er

      I did agree with that assessment on KP. He needs to improve his offensive game a lot. But why is the President discussing his flaws publicly? What good does that serve?

    37. ClashFan

      We should hold back on the trade KP stuff. Yeah, I’m a bit dismayed by him skipping the exit interview. But unless it is the first sign of a larger issue involving immaturity or a growing ego, let’s not jump to trading him. I certainly hope that the Knicks do not “shop” him, although they should listen to offers, esp. in a year with such a good draft.

      Wasn’t he a big Melo fan as a kid? If so, then he’s probably siding with one of his childhood heroes here and thinking more emotionally than logically. Hopefully, he’ll get over it. Get Melo the heck out of here and do NOT bring Rose back. Put a good team around him. Phil wants a team that shares the ball, passes, etc. Then get the right players for this.

      Remember, earlier this year KP said that he wanted more triangle, so he’s not against the basic idea of running an offense. Phil is spot on about KP taking too many threes. Phil should’ve used “lazy” rather than “cheap” in his comment, though for those threes that he sometimes takes early in the shot clock when not in rhythm, etc.

    38. Philmelo

      “He expressed the fact that he wants to be back,” Jackson told reporters. “We talked about going through rehab and work and whatever he has to do, and he has chosen to go back to Chicago to do that. He will be in L.A. But he also took the time out to say he really enjoyed playing here even with the losses, which, of course, surprises us a little bit because he’s been on some very successful teams. But he said he wants to have a chance to redeem himself as a player. Which, I like that attitude. I like who Derrick represents as himself. He’s a warrior directed at taking on the big challenges.”

      You’re arguing against the wrong guy if you think I ever defended or supported the Rose trade. But again, I will repeat that the mess was a two-way street where the players like Melo and Rose failed their part of the bargain. Where is the same criticism their way among fans like you? Here is Melo after the deal was made:

      “It’s going to take work.”I like that a lot. I’m reinvigorated,” he said, agreeing with a term team president Phil Jackson used last week to describe his spirits. “I feel a little bit more confident now that we actually made that move, made that decision. It shows me they are looking at now, and not the future just yet. The time is now. We have to capitalize on what we have right now. Of course the front office also has to look at the big picture, but the time is now.

      Talk about blowing smoke up a fanbase’s ass. If you’re going to criticize Phil for believing in these hucksters you should also blame the hucksters for swindling his gullible ass.

    39. Cock Jowles, The Nostradumbass Who Still Beat Your Weak Preseason Picks

      I’d do Melo and KP to Boston for both Brooklyn picks and would throw in our pick this year if they balked.

      I would laugh so hard if the C’s were smart enough to have fleeced the Nets and then let the Knicks, of all franchises, fleece them. Melo & KP playing starters’ minutes on that team makes them worse next year.

    40. er

      You’re arguing against the wrong guy if you think I ever defended or supported the Rose trade

      No one is arguing anything. This is why I laughed about Rose coming back. that’s it

    41. Philmelo

      This KP trade bullshit is because a resident simpleton troll insisted upon reposting a made up rumor from a fake web site. Phil isn’t trading KP, though KP may just trade Phil in for another GM when its all said and done.

    42. Philmelo

      No one is arguing anything.

      LOL, a non-argument argument. I love it. This is the new “alternative facts.” Kellyanne, is that you?

    43. DRed

      If Melo had played this year like he did last year we would have been in the playoff race til fairly late, even with all the other bullshit. Melo really sucked this season, and his pissy attitude is causing problems. He has got to go.

      Also if rose comes back Phil should be immediately fired

    44. djphan

      phil is not wrong about kp’s game… he’s actually pretty on point…. but the way he’s going about it is a bit tonedeaf…. you can’t just criticize your players in the media….

    45. Reub On Our Way To Greatness

      @44 PhilMelo, just how much do you love yourself?

      Isn’t it time for your meds yet?

    46. Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada

      Yeah, I think most of the stuff Phil said at the presser isn’t wrong, he just has serious issues with tone + presentation that make everything worse. He’s not a diplomat. And he used to be better with the media when he could deflect from the coaching position.

    47. jk_in_the_park

      @38 totally agree with you, and I also agree with most everything Phil had to say. I really can’t believe he’s been characterized as “insulting Melo” or “scolding KP.”

      Over and over again, Phil has said his priority and mandate is to develop a team culture that extends throughout the entire franchise — from D league to NBA roster to all scouting efforts. Such a culture has been missing from the Knicks since Riley left, and it is not built overnight. Phil’s models are the Spurs and the Patriots (not to mention his own Bulls and Lakers). Those teams generally fit their players to the program and not the other way around. They remain good for decades. We should want that.

      Thus far, Phil admits he’s been trying out different players to see if they are willing and able to fit into his “Knicks Way” and that has led to some errors. The core of Melo’s dispute is PJ saying “If you promise to pass, I will give you a NTC.” To which Melo responded, “I’ll do anything for the team.” The results on the floor show otherwise, so Phil believes Melo now needs to thrive elsewhere. That is simply a fact with which Melo should agree.

      Most important, from day one Phil has said that anyone who wants to play “system basketball” is welcome. He praises Baker and Randle, not because they are All Stars, but because they are doing what he says. Even on this blog we all seem to agree that they are more fun to watch than Melo and DRose — win or lose. Keeping in mind that basketball is at core an entertainment, we should side with the team and not the individual players who “resist” what Phil is trying to do — and doubly so if those resisters are so … fucking … boring to watch.

    48. JK47

      There was a rather large sample of Carmelo Anthony’s work when Phil Jackson signed him to the Mega Max NTC contract. Melo had rather clearly established himself as the Dominique Wilkins (except not quite as good) of his generation. The problem is that Phil was so enamored with his cherished Triangle that he thought it could make miracles happen, and that it could turn Melo into a true franchise-carrying superstar. He was wrong. He overestimated the impact of the Triangle, and he continues to overestimate the impact of the Triangle. This comical obsession with this particular offense leads to pearls of wisdom like “The Triangle needs a penetrator, let’s get Derrick Rose.” Or “The triangle needs a good passing big man, let’s sign Joakim Noah and we better lock him up for a long time because we REALLY need that guy.”

      He was a great coach, maybe the greatest coach ever. But he doesn’t understand WHY he was a great coach. He had great GMs feeding him great players. He made the most out of those great players, and for that he deserves all of the accolades he has received. But as a GM, he is the embodiment of the Peter Principle. He is bad at this job. Great players made the Triangle great. He seems to think the Triangle made good players into great players. He’s wrong, and he’s still wrong, and this base level wrongness will lead to more bad decisions.

    49. Reub On Our Way To Greatness

      @51 Great post! Phil is installing his system and Melo has not been and must not be a part of it. Theo used to say that we might have to give up an asset just to get rid of him and that may actually be worth it. It was bad enough when he was just disregarding the coach’s plays, chucking and refusing to play defense but if he’s poisoning the minds of the younger players then that has to be stopped immediately and forever.

    50. Reub On Our Way To Greatness

      Phil didn’t overestimate the triangle. It’s excellent. He overestimated Melo’s honesty and willingness to put winning over branding.

    51. JK47

      By the way, does this team ever get to shitcan Kurt Rambis? He was the supposed “defensive coordinator” of this sorry ass team and they were a bottom 5 defense. Didn’t he like, you know, fail miserably at his job? Maybe it’s time to reconsider the “two coaches, one of them utterly incompetent” approach.

    52. DRed

      The players made having a good defense difficult, but they often seemed confused and disjointed, and Rambis seems like a fucking idiot, so I’d hate to see him back

    53. JK47

      When you have a guy who has played 30,000 minutes in his career and has not been a good defender or team player that whole time, you’re a damn fool if you think he’s going to start playing great defense and passing because Triangle.

    54. jk_in_the_park

      @59 — point taken.

      But Phil also might not have expected the “face of the franchise” to negatively influence others against what the team is trying to do. Maybe Melo hasn’t gone that far, but I doubt anyone on this blog believes he’s been a good influence on the court, notwithstanding the endless chorus of NBA players saying Melo has really sacrificed for the Knicks. I just don’t see it.

    55. stratomatic

      I’m pretty convinced that Melo is one of the most poisonous big name players around. I don’t say that lightly. I say that because unlike Marbury, who would behave so idiotically in public everyone could tell he was disruptive, Melo has a very admirable public persona and does all his damage on the court and quietly in the locker room.

      When George Karl, Mike D’Antoni (2 coaches of the year), Jeff Hornacek (nicest guy in the world candidate), & Phil Jackson (one of the greatest coaches of all time) all have a problem with you either on/and or off the court, it’s YOU that is the problem.

      IMO, Melo tried to undermine both Hornacek and Rambis just like he did with D’Antoni when he blew up in the locker room against the Nets. This is not a debate about whether he will ultimately be right or wrong about the triangle etc.. It’s about how a professional player should handle himself.
      Your job as a player is to do what the coach & organization want you to do to the best of your ability. If it fails on the merits, the team will move on. Your job is not to try to undermine any of the coaches or the system you are being asked to play because YOU don’t like it or your role in it.

      I’ll go further and say it’s Melo that has poisoned KP’s attitude. No doubt KP is frustrated with losing & wants a single direction & plan. I think he also genuinely likes Melo. They have had each other’s back since the start. But now he can’t see that Melo has poisoned the team chemistry with his resistance to the coaches & Phil.

      I realize some people are not going to agree with me on this, but I think that’s because most are too preoccupied with Melo’s excellent public persona or their own opinions on the triangle instead of Melo’s behavior and play. At this point I honestly think getting rid of Melo is so critical to the future of the Knicks, I might even sweeten the pot with a 2nd rounder or KOQ just to get him out of this organization…

    56. Philmelo

      Its a bit of a simplification to say Phil thought the Triangle would automatically reverse Melo. He hoped that Melo would make the effort to evolve. Here is what Phil said in the Knicks progress report during the 2014-15 season:

      “I would like to see him flesh out the rest of his game,” Jackson explained. “He’s been getting some assists, he’s been getting some rebounds, but I think every opportunity to offensive rebound, which is one of his strengths, I would like to see him continue to do that. I would like to see him to continue to be aggressive defensively and a leader on that end of the floor too.”

      It was Phil’s ego as a coach that fooled him into believing the leopard would change his spots.

    57. stratomatic

      Yeah, I think most of the stuff Phil said at the presser isn’t wrong, he just has serious issues with tone + presentation that make everything worse. He’s not a diplomat. And he used to be better with the media when he could deflect from the coaching position.

      His communication problem is related to his age. He’s from my generation. My generation placed a lot of emphasis on truth even if it was unpleasant. More recent generations put the emphasis on idealistic notions and not hurting anyone’s feeling even if what you are saying is in conflict with reality and solves nothing.

      At the end of the presser I couldn’t have been more impressed & happy because I thought he was open, truthful, and laid out the issues and path. Younger people are upset about how he said some things. I’m laughing at them.

    58. Reub On Our Way To Greatness

      @61 “When George Karl, Mike D’Antoni (2 coaches of the year), Jeff Hornacek (nicest guy in the world candidate), & Phil Jackson (one of the greatest coaches of all time) all have a problem with you either on/and or off the court, it’s YOU that is the problem.”

      Well said. Melo must not be back next year even if we have to pay him to stay home. Hopefully we can get something via a trade for him but under no circumstances should he be allowed back to infect the young players.

    59. Philmelo

      @61

      I mainly agree with your assessment. Melo is a lot more astute in maneuvering public perception than his defenders acknowledge. He’s about his brand and the perception of being star than the actual dirty work. He was even able to fool Phil into believing that bunk.

    60. JK47

      Melo is a secondary player who has been treated like a franchise player his whole career. He’s more like Mark Aguirre, but he gets treated like he’s LeBron James. He has not been valued correctly pretty much his whole career.

      You try to build your franchise around Mark Aguirre, you’re not going to be a super kickass team.

    61. jk_in_the_park

      For Melo’s sake, the sooner he goes elsewhere, the sooner he gets his SI cover and spins the brand/narrative to its ultimate (foregone) conclusion: “Carmelo Anthony sacrificed his best years for a dysfunctional Knicks franchise, and is now achieving redemption as a sixth man with the … Cavs … Celtics … Clippers, etc. Finally, he is appreciated and blah blah blah blah.”

      Of course it will all be bullshit, but it will sell …

    62. Reub On Our Way To Greatness

      I’m hoping that Magic Johnson (who loves Melo) would part with his #28 draft pick this year for Melo. That seems like a deal that has at least a chance of happening. LAL are very young and they might crave a veteran “star” like Melo.

    63. stratomatic

      I can’t wait til Phil signs Rose this off season lmao

      No one on earth hated the Rose deal more than I did when it happened. I’ve been critical of his play during the season also. However, if we trade Melo and you think KP is not ready to be the #1 scorer (he CLEARLY is not), then the team absolutely needs at least one more scorer and a PG.

      It’s almost a lock that whoever we draft will not be ready for that kind of scoring role or to lead a team right away. So the Knicks will have 2 needs even after we draft a player. A starting caliber PG and a scorer. As much as it pains me to say it, Rose fits on both counts. As long as we don’t burn all of our cap space on him or give him more than 1 year and a team option in year 2, it would not be a terrible mistake to use Rose as the filler PG/scorer as both KP and our draft pick continue developing.

      Of course if we can get a better scorer and/or PG in free agency or in a trade, that would be superior, but if we do bring Rose back it’s not a disaster as long as it’s only one year and not too expensive.

    64. Philmelo

      I actually hope Melo is traded so he can either put up or shut up. Part of me wonders if the reason he doesn’t want to leave NYC is because he knows he’ll have to produce results in another organization that isn’t as dysfunctional. If he ends up going to LA or Cleveland and they stagnate or regress he won’t have Phil or Dolan to blame for the failure. He’ll have to take the responsibility for the failure.

    65. Reub On Our Way To Greatness

      @70 Dennis Smith Jr. is ready and able to assume that role right now.

    66. JK47

      Derrick Rose is a bad idea because he sucks at defense, is a shitty team player, is hurt all the time and sometimes disappears for days at a time leaving his teammates to wonder whether or not he’s dead.

    67. djphan

      rose clearly does not fit here… he seriously cannot be back for a multitude of reasons….

    68. Brian Cronin

      By the way, does this team ever get to shitcan Kurt Rambis? He was the supposed “defensive coordinator” of this sorry ass team and they were a bottom 5 defense. Didn’t he like, you know, fail miserably at his job? Maybe it’s time to reconsider the “two coaches, one of them utterly incompetent” approach.

      Jackson amusingly also threw in an excuse for Rambis, noting that Rambis only was the defensive coordinator because that’s where they needed the most help. In other words. the defense was bad so they tried to get him to fix it, but it wasn’t something that would have normally been his duty, thus it is not his fault.

    69. Brian Cronin

      And give me a break with this, “Phil just tells it how it is” stuff. He plainly used Rosen to rip on Melo and then hid behind it coming from Rosen so he wouldn’t have to cop to it when asked about it. I’m not even saying that that’s a bad strategy (lots of people use the media to call out each other), but don’t then tell me how Phil is some paragon of truth-telling.

    70. JK47

      Phil failing to discipline Rose in any meaningful way was a real embarrassment, and does not fit in with the “tells it like it is” narrative.

    71. Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada

      Whether or not Phil tells it like it is and whether or not that’s a feature of the older generation doesn’t excuse his apparently total lack of adequate communication in the executive role. Being a GM also involves managing and communicating with personnel after they’re hired. Phil has shown that he’s really, really not good at that. He needs to learn how to “tell it like it is” without alienating 50% of the organization and 80% of the people that really matter (players.) he didn’t need to as coach because as coach it was his way or the highway and he didn’t need to do anything related to contracts and acquisitions. He’s has trouble adjusting.

    72. thenoblefacehumper

      I don’t feel particularly bad for Melo. He’s been both overrated and overpaid for a while now. If he was as serious about winning as he claims, he would’ve recognized that re-signing with the Knicks for that obscene amount of money was not conducive to doing so.

      Given all of those things, that Melo has come out of this looking like someone deserving of sympathy speaks to just how badly Phil Jackson has bungled this.

      It’s really not hard–privately tell him you’ll be emphasizing youth going forward. Publically compliment him at every opportunity and speak vaguely about how you’ll consider all moves. This really didn’t have to be such a shit show. Phil Jackson rightly has come to the conclusion that Melo needs to go, but is incapable of going about persuing that in a semi-normal way.

      Everyone sucks. #LolKnicks

    73. djphan

      there’s a saying that you can be an asshole if you produce results… but as soon as you don’t ppl won’t tolerate it… well phil is a perfect embodiment of that… he can tell it like it is all he wants if he won like he did in chi and la… but in ny he simply hasn’t…

    74. Philmelo

      And give me a break with this, “Phil just tells it how it is” stuff. He plainly used Rosen to rip on Melo and then hid behind it coming from Rosen so he wouldn’t have to cop to it when asked about it. I’m not even saying that that’s a bad strategy (lots of people use the media to call out each other), but don’t then tell me how Phil is some paragon of truth-telling.

      One has to distinguish between two things here: the content of what Phil said about Melo, and manner in which that message was delivered. The two, though interconnected, are not the same thing.

    75. ClashFan

      @61
      Stratomatic, I agree 100%. Sadly, it has taken Phil 3 years to realize what a cancer Melo is.

      However, he cannot bring Rose back. Melo and Rose both must go. Look, if he really wants to “change the culture” and make people accountable, then do so. He’s failed to do that for 3 years!

      Give KP some time. I’ve worked with young people for many years. He’s being emotional and immature right now, but don’t condemn him for it. There does need to be a sit down, though.
      Now, if this next season there are additional signs of him becoming selfish or petulant, then consider dealing him before his value starts to wane.

      BTW, one possible positive about the media and other players being all sorry for Melo is that that might help his trade value. Just gotta find one team that he is willing to play for that buys into the whole deal of all this being Phil’s fault. I don’t think that Ainge is that guy unless they seriously lay an egg in the playoffs. However, Cleveland (if they flop this offseason) and the Clips remain possibilities b/c his buddies are there and could push the team to deal. I’d happily take Austin Rivers back in a deal for Melo.

    76. Grocer

      One has to distinguish between two things here: the content of what Phil said about Melo, and manner in which that message was delivered. The two are not the same thing.

      Even if some of the content was correct, Phil just gave a press conference where he said “it’s my responsibility of course, but just look at how all these people failed me. Failed us. Failed NY. It’s just so sad [shakes head].” That’s not taking responsibility, that’s blaming other people for your own failures. “Rose is pretty good in a certain light.” That’s not truth-telling, that’s covering your incompetent ass. Saying nice things about Rambis’s utter failure is not truth-telling. Using a third-party to trash your team instead of just saying this shit to their faces is not truth-telling, it’s being a malicious little weasel. It’s not surprising that the press would go off on this fool when he’s feeding this bullshit to them.

      This roster is Jackson’s fault. If Melo has more power than he should that is Jackson’s fault. If we can’t trade him because he sucks that is Jackson’s fault, he’s the one that gave him this impossible contract. If the Knicks suck at defense because our players don’t play defense and our defensive coach is a useless lump, that is Jackson’s fault, he hired these guys knowing precisely who they were. Phil Jackson is poison. There is literally no program in the world that would hire the guy at this point, and we just re-upped for two more years. Hell, we’re probably stuck with this asshole until he dies.

    77. Grocer

      After some thought, I’d like to revise. Dolan is the cancer that is killing this team. Phil is just a horrible symptom. It’s extremely unfortunate that he’s probably the best we’re going to get as long as Dolan is in charge.

    78. Reub On Our Way To Greatness

      Grocer, Phil has inherited a total of one number one draft pick and two number two draft picks in his three years of service here. Plus an aging, broken down team. He hasn’t been given enough time to build a team from the ground up but that will start to change this year. Stay positive.

    79. JK47

      Phil also didn’t do anything to actually, you know, ACQUIRE extra draft picks. The one first rounder he did manage to acquire was frittered away for the bag of Derrick Rose magic beans.

      Phil should have been collecting assets all along. He didn’t though, because he’s a crummy GM and he foolishly thought he could put together a winning team made up of declining overrated veterans.

    80. Ingmarrr

      The NTC was an awful decision. But now the guy fights our fight and tries to get rid of Me-70. I wish him luck.

    81. DRed

      The Yankees suggest a model for rebuilding while attempting to be a fringe contender-spend your FA money on assets you think will be valuable at the trade deadline, and then move them for picks/prospects if you’re not contending

    82. Grocer

      Grocer, Phil has inherited a total of one number one draft pick and two number two draft picks in his three years of service here. Plus an aging, broken down team.

      I’m trying to think of who was actually on this team when he took over that’s left, other than Melo (who he signed himself). Coming up blank. All these aging, broken down players are people that he hired. All (obvious and foreseeable) failures are his fault, he put this team together. It’d would have been nice if he’d actually admitted his failures instead of blaming other people.

    83. Grocer

      The Yankees suggest a model for rebuilding while attempting to be a fringe contender-spend your FA money on assets you think will be valuable at the trade deadline, and then move them for picks/prospects if you’re not contending

      This requires you to be good enough at understanding player value to, for example, recognize that Rose for Rubio straight up is a good deal and not hold out for more. Phil is not good at this.

    84. jk_in_the_park

      How exactly has Phil bungled the communication with Melo? If every single one of us (and at least half the fans) know exactly what Melo should be doing on the court, then Phil’s message to him must be pretty clear. If Melo does not do that (defend, pass, cut, buy in to the system), then the fault lies solely with the player.

      As for Phil’s various “leaks” or “hints” or “insults” or bungled tweets — none of those should matter at all because the thrust of his message is so clear already. If Rosen paraphrases Phil’s message for his own gain as a reporter, the message is still — pass the fucking ball. If blind items by reporters with anonymous sources discuss locker room conflict to sell papers, it’s still the same message from Phil. If Phil’s tweets are too “meta” and cryptic, it is because he assumes we all know the story. And that is because we do.

      Even Phil’s blunt calm in the press conference yesterday is obviously an older man’s exasperation and yes arrogance that he must continue to repeat himself. Of course we can (and should) pin the bad trades and contracts on him, but it is ludicrous to assert that Phil Jackson has been unclear.

      We all know what Phil wants. We all know which players resist it or are unable do it.

    85. thenoblefacehumper

      How exactly has Phil bungled the communication with Melo? If every single one of us (and at least half the fans) know exactly what Melo should be doing on the court, then Phil’s message to him must be pretty clear. If Melo does not do that (defend, pass, cut, buy in to the system), then the fault lies solely with the player.

      Melo played this season like a declining version of the player he’s always been. That’s not a good player, so to that extent, sure, it’s his fault. But him playing at this level at age 32 was perfectly predictable when Phil Jackson mega max+NTC’d him. If Phil feels that he was caught off guard somehow, it’s his own fault for not thinking about what the future might look like for the guy he gave a five year contract.

    86. Kahnzy

      Is there any reason Shumpert can’t even get into this game? I haven’t been paying much attention to Cleveland’s rotation; is he really just out of the rotation?

    87. Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada

      Lance Stephenson is good again

      At least for one game. Fun game overall.

    88. jk_in_the_park

      But him playing at this level at age 32 was perfectly predictable when Phil Jackson mega max+NTC’d him. If Phil feels that he was caught off guard somehow, it’s his own fault for not thinking about what the future might look like for the guy he gave a five year contract.

      Yes. Totally agree. But one could argue that Phil (and all of us) are disappointed (if not caught off guard) by Melo’s stubborn refusal to accept his own declining skills and by his clear disinterest in helping the young players commit to the basketball system his organization obviously wants.

    89. Bo Nateman

      Knicks should and should have handled Melo the way the Yanks handled A-Rod at the end of his Yankee tenure, though A-Rod was reviled by the fan base. Knicks should have benched Melo, when he gave his half assed defense, the way Yanks dropped A-Rod in the line-up and benched him. Should they not be able to move him, that seems to be the only viable path.

    90. Cock Jowles, The Nostradumbass Who Still Beat Your Weak Preseason Picks

      I don’t see how the Cavs even make it to the Finals if this is their “true” form. It’s like 8 scrubs, 2 decent starters and LeBron. Seems like the Spurs and Warriors could wreck them in 5.

    91. geo

      marinating/medicating over the Phil thing yesterday – he came away seeming very, very out of touch…not so much the content of his words (although some statements/comments also added to the “confused” tone), but, rather his focus and energy…

      what irony to have phil leading a “youth” movement…

      hopefully we’ll hear some kind of b.s. from kp soon…can’t imagine kp walking out like that intentionally can help us bring good ball players in this off season…

      then again, Phil publicly ripping melo (justified as it was) didn’t seem to go over that well in the wonderful world of media coverage either…

      on a positive note – we did not lose a game yesterday (hmmmm, actually that would have been a good thing); and, we’ll still have a top ten pick and 20 some million in cap space…

      boy though, we surely are not media darlings…a whole bunch of “news” type folks have made a very good living covering the knicks…

    92. Donnie Walsh

      I’m hoping that Magic Johnson (who loves Melo) would part with his #28 draft pick this year for Melo.

      Wait, THIS is what we are hoping Melo is worth now? I didn’t follow the season, wow, he must have been horrible. Last off-season we were talking multiple lottery picks in scenarios if Dolan would agree to let him go.

      And the saddest thing is, I guess, that the lakers MUST be okay with that trade, but the Knicks couldn’t even do it because of the NTC.

      (Anybody share the old KB threads from the MMM days lately? Score another for the pessimists who painted this EXACT picture of the future for y’all that day:)

    93. er

      The Mike Francesca take is exactly how I feel. I forgot about Rambis lmao!

      He hit the nail so hard on the head here. The guy is trying to coach from the presidents seat. He installs figure heads and would have given the job to rambis if not for the outcry. KP is frustrated because there are two coaches and no one knows what to do. Man I hope he drafts well lmao

    94. Grocer

      Yes. Totally agree. But one could argue that Phil (and all of us) are disappointed (if not caught off guard) by Melo’s stubborn refusal to accept his own declining skills and by his clear disinterest in helping the young players commit to the basketball system his organization obviously wants.

      Phil didn’t say Melo’s skills were declining, he said Melo didn’t put in the effort. I mean, I get why. If Phil admits Melo’s skills are declining then he has to admit he fucked up. And which system? I know Phil’s obsession, but Hornacek has changed what system they are playing 4 times this season, starting with a hybrid then the triangle then back and back again. The dysfunction here isn’t starting with Melo, it’s starting with Melo’s bosses.

      Look, our players mostly suck. Melo sucks and I want him gone. But Jackson is a big problem and all the evidence is that he’s not learning. We have the same problems now that we had three years ago. Him saying a couple accurate things at the end of the season doesn’t change any of that.

    95. Reub On Our Way To Greatness

      We do not have the same problem as three years ago. Three years ago we were bereft of draft picks. Now we have our own plus.

    96. jk_in_the_park

      And which system? I know Phil’s obsession, but Hornacek has changed what system they are playing 4 times this season, starting with a hybrid then the triangle then back and back again. The dysfunction here isn’t starting with Melo, it’s starting with Melo’s bosses.

      We might all agree (even Francesca) that Phil’s passive aggressive approach to his coaches is a big problem. Phil is too old to do the job himself, and Kerr (almost), Fisher, Rambis, Hornacek are/were always going to be puppets to some extent because of the legacy.

      BUT, I completely disagree that Melo’s problems are due to any confusion about the system. Too many of his mistakes are mistakes in ANY system that is not called “Give the ball to Melo and Clear Out.” In fact, I think some of the changes to the system thus far have been (ill-advised) attempts to accommodate Melo. Even early in this season, there were times he was shrugging off Hornacek on the sidelines and making a public show of disagreeing with plays called down the stretch.

      Melo’s bad attitude is contagious and toxic. It should be stopped forcefully and directly as @100 said above. Melo should have gotten (or should get) the same treatment the Yankees gave A-Rod. Bench him if he refuses to run the plays. I believe Hornacek might have wanted to do just that at various points in the season, but he didn’t have the guts.

    97. jk_in_the_park

      Phil didn’t say Melo’s skills were declining, he said Melo didn’t put in the effort. I mean, I get why. If Phil admits Melo’s skills are declining then he has to admit he fucked up.

      PS — I don’t think Phil expected Melo’s skills to remain throughout the big contract, so I doubt he would consider it a fuckup. I think he expected Melo to evolve into a leadership role which would be worth the money. I think Phil also took Melo at his word that he wants/wanted to retire a Knick, which would also suggest some kind of mentoring and “buying in” to what Phil wants for the franchise. Melo is clearly not putting effort towards any of that.

      Honestly, I think Phil is disappointed in Melo’s character as a man. Whether Phil is patronizing or justified (or both) is up for debate.

    98. er

      BUT, I completely disagree that Melo’s problems are due to any confusion about the system. Too many of his mistakes are mistakes in ANY system that is not called “Give the ball to Melo and Clear Out.”

      True and that’s on management. The guy has a clear track record. Get him a good vet PG and he will conform. See Denver and Nyk. Phil thought Derrick Rose was that guy lol

    99. er

      They are also 3 different issues. Phil has picked all the players on the team and they suck. He also is a quasi coach. Melo has issues and has declined.

      They are 3 separate issues

    100. Grocer

      BUT, I completely disagree that Melo’s problems are due to any confusion about the system.

      I don’t think Melo’s issues are anything to do with the system. I just don’t think the team’s problems with the system are particularly his fault.

      Too many of his mistakes are mistakes in ANY system that is not called “Give the ball to Melo and Clear Out.”

      If the Knicks don’t want Melo to do this, they shouldn’t run the fucking play. They shouldn’t run the play period, and they should bench him if he keeps doing it. But they don’t. As far as I can tell, the Knicks preferred system is “Give the ball to Melo and Clear Out.” It’s the only offensive possession that they run consistently. But, and this is the important part, this is not a failure on Melo’s part. It’s a failure on the part of the coaching staff who won’t bench him for it. It’s a failure on the part of the front office who doesn’t make it clear that they should bench him. They do not do these things, so clearly they wish him to continue to run that play.

      I believe Hornacek might have wanted to do just that at various points in the season, but he didn’t have the guts.

      Which is a problem with our weak-ass coach and ridiculous president. Getting rid of Melo is a good thing but it will not solve that problem.

    101. jk_in_the_park

      True and that’s on management. The guy has a clear track record. Get him a good vet PG and he will conform. See Denver and Nyk. Phil thought Derrick Rose was that guy lol

      I doubt Phil would describe any of Melo’s previous “success” with Denver or NYK as good basketball. He obviously thinks Melo has a chucking style that can win some games but not championships.

      Also, I agree Phil thought DRose might be that guy (and I lol with you at that), but his praise for Rose at the press conference also hints at something else. I think Phil wants/hopes for another big ego on the team to undercut Melo’s power. For all his faults, DRose is a former MVP (something Melo never was or will be). Of course DRose is also a head case, terrible defender, and a useless teammate, so there’s that.

    102. Grocer

      I think Phil also took Melo at his word that he wants/wanted to retire a Knick, which would also suggest some kind of mentoring and “buying in” to what Phil wants for the franchise. Melo is clearly not putting effort towards any of that.

      He’s clearly not buying in, but then what Phil says he wants is often contradictory and isn’t working out all that well. But the mentoring stuff, seems like he is doing that just based off the comments of KP.

    103. jk_in_the_park

      As far as I can tell, the Knicks preferred system is “Give the ball to Melo and Clear Out.” It’s the only offensive possession that they run consistently.

      Maybe, but the coach (every single coach he’s had) has said Melo holds the ball too long. So how many of those plays are Melo deciding that any pass to him is license to run “Give the ball to Melo and Clear Out.” Clearly if (all) the coaches are rolling their eyes, they haven’t quite drawn it up that way.

      They are also 3 different issues. Phil has picked all the players on the team and they suck. He also is a quasi coach. Melo has issues and has declined.

      Totally agree ER that there are multiple problems, but clearly the thorn in Phil’s side is that he has not been able to install his “system.” As agreed before, that’s on him for not coaching or finding the right proxy. But consider also that Phil probably assumed the system would be the “easy part”, his strong suit, and that he would learn the other skills — to evaluate talent and do deals — as his job wore on. Since no one (really) expected the Knicks to compete in any meaningful games right away (even if he said they would make the playoffs), that should have been a dream job. We would all be praising Knicks basketball, excited about our Bakers, our Hernangomezes, our KPs, with an obliging veteran to take the last shot.

      Instead, the whole thing has been soap opera, all because one veteran forward keeps saying that everything is just too confusing … and his bosses are just too mean on Twitter … and if only he had a point guard ….

    104. jk_in_the_park

      But the mentoring stuff, seems like he is doing that just based off the comments of KP.

      I hope you’re being sarcastic. Since KP skipped his exit meeting, that’s probably some mentoring we can do without.

    105. Reub On Our Way To Greatness

      It sounds like KP needs some mentoring on his professionalism. Where does a 21 yr old kid who struggled at times get off bailing on a mandatory exit briefing that is meant to assess his game, his progress and give him suggestions on his improvement?

    106. Grocer

      Instead, the whole thing has been soap opera, all because one veteran forward keeps saying that everything is just too confusing

      Yeah, this is bullshit. The drama and disfunction starts with Dolan and continues on down the ladder. Players being frustrated about losing isn’t soap opera. Melo trying to navigate a front office that’s only talking to him through the press is, but that’s on the front office for being cadgy as fuck.

    107. Philmelo

      Even if some of the content was correct, Phil just gave a press conference where he said “it’s my responsibility of course, but just look at how all these people failed me. Failed us. Failed NY. It’s just so sad [shakes head].” That’s not taking responsibility, that’s blaming other people for your own failures.

      Oh, I agree. I am not defending Phil’s evasion of responsibility. I am talking about his assessment of the state of the team. He said many things there which were true about Melo, KP, Rose and Hornacek.

    108. jk_in_the_park

      @118

      I agree Dolan is a nightmare as a person, but, since Phil’s been here what is the front office being cagey about with Melo? I mean what is the substance of the confusion?

      As I said before, if we all know what Phil wants from Melo, how is it possible that he does not know? What exactly is Melo trying to “navigate?”

    109. Grocer

      Do you not remember the shit before the trade deadline? Phil publicly shopping Melo but not actually talking to him about it? Do you think that’s all on Melo and his ‘bad attitude’?

    110. er

      “I agree Dolan is a nightmare as a person, but, since Phil’s been here what is the front office being cagey about with Melo? I mean what is the substance of the confusion?”

      Phil is a ball of confusion. The fact that he routinely intrupts practices is still flabbergasting to me

    111. MSA

      We have the same problem with both, Jackson and Melo.

      Both see themselves as better than they really are at this point in their career and life.

      Most of the blame on this crap that is happening now is on Phil. There is no point in criticizing your own players to the media and he also chose every single player in the team + coaching staff. So wtf are you complaing about?

      On the other hand, Melo clearly think that he is “still” elite and is not humble enough to admit that he’s been doing a terrible job as a basketball player and leader. Take the high road, dude. Stop answering Phil’s BS and find yourself a team that could be a contender.

      Both should go ASAP. Since is easier to ship Melo, start with him. Let’s just hope Phil gets bored after another failed season and retires.

    112. Philmelo

      Do you not remember the shit before the trade deadline? Phil publicly shopping Melo but not actually talking to him about it? Do you think that’s all on Melo and his ‘bad attitude’?

      Not at all. Phil’s been an ass. But he’s not wrong about Melo at all.

    113. er

      Yes he has. He’s an idiot. You are blinded by Your melo hate. He has handled the situation stupidly. Like I said if HE didn’t give him the NTC well fine who cares, but HE did.

    114. jk_in_the_park

      Do you not remember the shit before the trade deadline? Phil publicly shopping Melo but not actually talking to him about it? Do you think that’s all on Melo and his ‘bad attitude’?

      That’s a lot of conjecture based mostly on Melo’s generic comments like, “I don’t know my role. I don’t know what Phil wants from me. I don’t know about those trade rumors. I’m just gonna play ball and keep that out of my head.” Oh you mean do what every other professional athlete has done since the beginning of professional sports. Thanks for that, Melo. A big sacrifice.

      In any case, since Melo has the NTC, what would/could Phil say in advance of a deal? Rather the prudent thing would be to deliver an offer (if it ever exists) and see if Melo approves. We can only surmise there was no offer that made sense for the team, so there was nothing to tell Melo.

      And just because some reporters wrote that Melo was being offered to other teams does not mean Phil is being disrespectful. Melo should know that he is always being offered, but he should be the last athlete to whine about it since he knows he can’t be moved without his prior approval.

    115. jk_in_the_park

      Truly the whole thing goes back to Phil’s hiring and the non-sensical media focus on the Triangle, like it was some rocket science needing to be deciphered from a pre-historic cave painting (with help from instruction videos by Spike Lee).

      The smart move from Melo would have been to say clearly and concisely that the Triangle is not confusing AT ALL. Maybe he even did at first (I can’t remember), but that would have been a leader’s move, leaving no room for any underling to complain. If bright bulbs like Dennis Rodman and Shaquille O’Neal swear to this day that the system is easy, then Melo could/should have done the same from day one. End of story. Then if we’re still here with this record after three years, I have more respect for his position.

      Instead, Melo’s problem was the system, the confusion. Phil’s offense is old-fashioned, outdated, obsolete. But is that even accurate? How many other teams ran it during the heyday of Bulls and Lakers? Have people really gone away from it, or did nobody else ever really use it? More accurately, the “system” Phil wants is not necessarily old but perhaps very specific, and I think he deserved a chance to see if his ideas would work. Hell, Phil was HIRED to install this system franchise-wide, and he has been most consistent in one regard: He has unloaded all the players that balk at trying it — all except Melo, because NTC.

      Yes that NTC clause is Phil’s fault, but … come … fucking … on. Enough is enough.

    116. Accidentank 2017

      It’s honestly nobody’s fault but Phil’s that nobody wants to play the triangle. If Phil were coaching the Knicks would know exactly what to do as Phil would be going over the Xs and Os with them all the time. The problem comes in when you add bad players to a team and when you get in the way of your coaches.

      You know what Phil should do? He should assign himself to Hornacek’s coaching staff and be on the bench every home game talking to guys (and the coach). He can be the lead assistant on home games and Rambis can be there for away games or something. Phil would be at all home practices and he would coordinate with Hornacek more. If he wants the triangle he has to coach. There is no getting around that.

    117. Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada

      So my girlfriend just told me that she got hit on by Dewayne Dedmon 5 years ago rofl

    118. Accidentank 2017

      Personally I believe the Knicks would be an excellent team if Phil had his way. If everyone on the roster played unselfish ball and adhered to the triangle then you have a 50 win team just because the talent on this team would have been too much for most opponents. Instead, Phil added dumb and/or stubborn but talented ball players and tried to teach them a system.

      I think Phil is starting to see he needs guys who will listen, and those guys are normally the less talented players with high basketball IQs. Chasson Randle will never be Derrick Rose in terms of talent but I will take him on my team over Rose any day. At the same time, for every Chasson Randle you have a bum like Ron Baker. Either way, Phil might have figured out, for his system’s sake, he needs to target different players. Young, productive, and smart.

    119. jk_in_the_park

      You know what Phil should do? He should assign himself to Hornacek’s coaching staff and be on the bench every home game talking to guys (and the coach). He can be the lead assistant on home games and Rambis can be there for away games or something. Phil would be at all home practices and he would coordinate with Hornacek more. If he wants the triangle he has to coach. There is no getting around that.

      You might be exactly right. And we might be looking at some of that based on Phil’s (yes, pompous) self-reflection that his major mistake thus far has been that he needs to do more mentoring. In a way we are both agreeing with him (as crazy as that sounds).

      Thing is: I don’t know how Hornacek will like that. And if the last ten games are any indication, it doesn’t seem like Hornacek has a problem getting the B team to play “the system” anyway. The problem is and always has been the A team. That’s the only reason we’re even talking about this (nonsense) three year on. As for your solution (I like it), but I’m not sure Phil’s raspy drawl is gonna make much headway with the A team no matter where he sits or stands during practice.

      And after the exit interview thing, I’m worried about which “team” KP is on.

    120. jk_in_the_park

      @131 — yup +1

      I can only guess that, even though we see re-build and playoffs as a binary choice, Phil thinks/thought he could mix in some stars (for Dolan) and still get his core high IQ guys to buy in and build a consistent culture. KP is the key of course. Whose side is he on?

      Best case going forward, if we’re really lucky in the draft, then we’re building a core of young guys like the late 90s Yankees, another successful team model with a strict “buy in or you are replaceable” culture btw.

      And yes I know I’m in reub-optimism territory here :-)

    121. Philmelo

      Yes he has. He’s an idiot. You are blinded by Your melo hate. He has handled the situation stupidly. Like I said if HE didn’t give him the NTC well fine who cares, but HE did.

      You’re conflating things again. Phil has handled the situation stupidly. But that doesn’t change who or what Melo is – a fading high volume/isolation scorer who doesn’t consistently play defense or team-oriented basketball. I pray to God he leaves to winner and a successful franchise so he can put up and win the championship he thinks he deserves or shut up and admit that he was never as good as he sold himself as.

    122. Philmelo

      @131

      Totally agree. I am reminded of Mike Singletary’s epic 2008 rant about Vernon Davis when I think of Carmelo Anthony.

      I will not tolerate players who think it’s about them when it’s about the team. And we cannot make decisions that cost the team and then come off the sideline nonchalant. No. You know what? This is what I believe, I’m from the old school. I would rather play with ten people and just get penalized all the way until we gotta do something else rather than play with 11 when right now that person is not sold out to be a part of this team

    123. Reub On Our Way To Greatness

      @131 Baker looked much better than Randle did at the end of the season, especially on defense. I disagree that he is a bum or that Randle is better. Baker has to improve his shooting for sure but if he does that he’s perfect. Hornacek seems to love him too.

    124. Philmelo

      @138

      And in fairness, you can say the same thing about Phil. He’s made this entire thing about him rather than running a functional organization.

    125. Accidentank 2017

      Ron Baker was horrible this season. If he can increase his TS% 100 points you’re talking about a good player, but that .458TS% with a .431eFG% from a guard? That’s as bad as it gets. You can’t have a productive unit when a guy who only shoots when he’s open has that kind of efficiency. It’s ghastly.

    126. jk_in_the_park

      @139

      Yeah maybe. But Phil definitely thinks of himself as Singletary in that analogy.

      In any case, if that Woj article is even half right, and the practices, Phil’s emails, etc. seem “chaotic and unprofessional” to KP, then there is a big problem that is unlikely to go away this summer.

      (edit) … or until a happy/lucky draft day :-)

    127. Philmelo

      In any case, if that Woj article is even half right, and the practices, Phil’s emails, etc. seem “chaotic and unprofessional” to KP, then there is a big problem that is unlikely to go away this summer.

      Yeah, this is what I am worried about. Woj’s article makes it seem he’s surrounding himself with sychophants who will loyally report to him and carry out his biding from afar instead of creating a coaching staff that will meet the needs of the players.

    128. jk_in_the_park

      @142 — yup. That’s the Emperor Has No Clothes moment/risk for Phil.

      On the bright side, I’m sure Melo has Woodson on speed dial. ;-)

    129. yellowboy90

      As the New York Knicks completed perfunctory season-ending meetings with Phil Jackson, league sources say that some players emerged perplexed over the contents of the conversations – which included game-show questions. The Knicks president sent his team into the summer in a similar state as to how they staggered through another lost season: bewilderment.

      I just wonder which game-show did Phil use or was it a combination of several different game shows? : )

    130. jk_in_the_park

      @ 144 – According to ESPN, the opening question:

      Which famous philosopher said, “Knowing is not enough, we must apply. Willing is not enough, we must do.”

      1) Sun Tzu
      2) Goethe
      3) Phil Jackson
      4) Bruce Lee
      5) Yoda

    131. Reub On Our Way To Greatness

      @140 You’re looking at stats and I’m looking at the player. A lot of what Baker does doesn’t show up in the numbers. The team just looked good with him running it. If his shot comes around I think he’ll be a big asset for the team in our system. I mean how long has it been since we had a point guard who could make stops, fight over screens, outmuscle people and be a team leader?

    132. jk_in_the_park

      @146 — Apparently, Phil asked this question and others while Rambis projected a video loop of Michael Jordan passing out of the pinch post onto each player’s eyeballs (again, according to ESPN, so who knows?)

    133. er

      You’re conflating things again. Phil has handled the situation stupidly. But that doesn’t change who or what Melo is – a fading high volume/isolation scorer who doesn’t consistently play defense or team-oriented basketball.

      I’m not conflating anything. If he didn’t give Melo a NTC he could have said anything he wanted to and traded him whenever he wanted to. Period. Instead we have a shit show

    134. er

      Lol philmelo read that Woj piece and say with a straight face that Phil and Melo are equal in this. Fuck outta here man. Phil has gotta go. He has to take his underlings like Sasha and Rambis too

    135. geo

      woj’s article was basically fire phil, cuz, I don’t like him…pretty biased and emotional piece…

      considering we have 7 undrafted players and a handful of rooks, I’m sure most guys on the team are just glad they have a job…

      I thought Phil had children at some point in his life, grandkids too…he just seems so out of touch with his methods and processes…

      well, the knicks have broken better basketball people then him…although, phil used to have a really nice basketball resume…

      at least he has a really fat bank account now…

      why couldn’t dolan have met jerry west at some party…

    136. er

      If players under contract cannot, under threat of league discipline, speak openly about their desire to be employed elsewhere, we expect management to adhere to the same standards,” Roberts said in a statement. “The door swings both ways when it comes to demonstrating loyalty and respect.”

      Lol NBAPA and NBA looking into reprimanding our mighty president …Jesus

    137. Grocer

      But Phil definitely thinks of himself as Singletary in that analogy.

      But he’s not, that’s the point. He’s basically the opposite. Pulling all this passive aggressive shit in the media then shaking his head about players’ attitude. Maybe he should be benching players but instead he’s just trying to pass the buck. You don’t manage players well by putting them down publicly and ignoring them privately. That’s not how you should be managing anyone.

      That Woj article is really really dark. Wish it had come out before Phil signed on for two more years. Nice counterpoint to ‘the triangle is easy,’ the teachers are incredibly bad. I can certainly see why Phil and Dolan see eye-to-eye though.

    138. er

      woj’s article was basically fire phil, cuz, I don’t like him…pretty biased and emotional piece…

      Are you saying Woj was being emotional?

    139. wetbandit

      Wow. If that Woj piece is even 10% accurate… And I’m sure it’s much closer to 100%…

      Then the Knicks are fucked. Like seriously, seriously fucked. Dolan is shit and he keeps proving it to us. Phil has alienated the NBA players association, his coach, a sophomore future cornerstone, the rest of the team and staff, is playing a losing hand of poker with his top paid Melo. He put Rambis in to yell at the players who are openly rebelling against the system hes shoving down their throats. What are we sitting here posting about, wasting our time. Fuck. The team is really, really fucked. And stupid on all its levels.

    140. jk_in_the_park

      Maybe he should be benching players but instead he’s just trying to pass the buck.

      Totally agree with this; benchings are long overdue. Not sure why they never happened. Derek Fisher thing was weird. The DRose thing was weird. Melo’s stubbornness has always been weird. Now the KP thing is weird. I bet Phil still thinks he taught Shump and JR a lesson by trading them to the World Champions.

      While I do wish for fluid basketball, it’s clear Phil does not have a firm or consistent handle here.

    141. geo

      just that he he sounded pissed about phil’s media relations, or lack of…

      phil’s not that hard to pick a part just using his own words and actions…

      to insinuate that kp bolted cuz phil was acting weird with the exit interview questions was silly…

      woj should have have just gone with: ‘fire the fool’ for a thru z reasons…shit, he could have just wrote:

      phil jackson = 32.5% winning percentage

    142. er

      Fuck. The team is really, really fucked. And stupid on all its levels.

      Exactly. People on here talking about Melo can’t see the Forrest through the trees.

    143. jk_in_the_park

      Exactly. People on here talking about Melo can’t see the Forrest through the trees.

      Yeah but then what? Fire Phil. Go back to Melo/Woodson ball. Meaningless playoff exits. A rotating cast of Knicks lying to themselves, saying “if we just play our game, we can beat anybody.” It’s been that way for twenty fucking years. The seduction of Phil was the hope for — the illusion of, the aspiration for (!) — some kind of whole greater than the sum of its parts. Melo’s way is just back to “I’m the most important part.”

    144. Grocer

      Yeah but then what? Fire Phil. Go back to Melo/Woodson ball.

      It’s not this or that. They both need to go. Melo is a pointless waste on this team, and we need a competent pres with full control to clean house and rebuild a respectable organization off the court as well as on.

      Clips/Jazz is kinda cookin’.

    145. er

      Yeah but then what? Fire Phil. Go back to Melo/Woodson ball. Meaningless playoff exits. A rotating cast of Knicks lying to themselves, saying “if we just play our game, we can beat anybody.” It’s been that way for twenty fucking years. The seduction of Phil was the hope for — the illusion of, the aspiration for (!) — some kind of whole greater than the sum of its parts. Melo’s way is just back to “I’m the most important part.”

      Again. This has nothing to do with Melo. Ill repeat it for the umpteenth time. It starts with Dolan, who is literally keeping Phil Jackson to absorb the proverbial bullets from the fans and media because of his credentials. Then you have Phil who is trying to coach from the Presidents chair and is a horrible communicator and is terrible at his job.

      They both have to go, but if Dolan is staying he needs to get a competent president. Melo at this point is a red herring.

      Edit: Thank you Grocer, someone gets it

    146. The Infamous Cdiggy

      I have to admit that things don’t look good right now (which some will probably take as a massive understatement).
      I was clearly in Phil’s corner; while I still believe he’s trying to do what most of us want to be done with the team, he isn’t helping himself with the way he’s going about it. Maybe it’s not the best thing to have someone of his stature in his seat b/c there’s very few people on the planet that can tell him shit when it comes to b’ball. I don’t know why he insists on keeping Rambis around – I have zero faith in him as any kind of coach. And I understand that the NBA – and pro sport in general – is about relationships and connects, but and it leads to evidence of the kind of cronyism that has plagued out beloved franchise since basically the start of this current millennium.

      Trade Melo, don’t resign Rose, draft well come June, and don’t do anything stupid with our cap space this summer. Do these four things, and Jackson can restore some faith in everyone.

    147. jk_in_the_park

      if Dolan is staying he needs to get a competent president.

      If Dolan is staying … a puzzle indeed.

      we need a competent pres with full control to clean house and rebuild a respectable organization off the court as well as on.

      Agreed. I just think this is the easiest thing to say and the hardest thing to do. I still want to see what Phil would do without Melo. BUT — the KP problem may be a deal breaker for me.

    148. Philmelo

      I’m not conflating anything. If he didn’t give Melo a NTC he could have said anything he wanted to and traded him whenever he wanted to. Period. Instead we have a shit show

      No one’s arguing any different. But the actual point is Melo
      could have just taken the deal and been the player Phil hoped he could be. He’s not and will never be.

    149. jk_in_the_park

      @165 — yes, and it’s doubly infuriating that Melo pretends he is/was that player.

    150. er

      Melo could have just taken the deal and been the player Phil hoped he could be. He’s not and will never be.

      sigh. Melo could have played at 13-14 production levels every year of his deal and it really wouldnt have made much of a difference. Thats what im trying to say but you are fixated on a player instead of the organization.

    151. Philmelo

      Lol philmelo read that Woj piece and say with a straight face that Phil and Melo are equal in this. Fuck outta here man. Phil has gotta go. He has to take his underlings like Sasha and Rambis too

      Wow, you really are salty. For one thing, I read the article and am not surprised in the least bit. For another, I challenge to present the quote where I claimed Phil and Melo are “equal in this.” You won’t because I never said it. In your typical passive aggressive fashion you’ve put words in my mouth to fashion an easy strawman you can dismiss with the usual monkey logic. I said Phil lacked total control to determine the team’s course upon giving Melo the NTC. I said Phil’s right about Melo’s shortcomings. How you interpret that to mean they both share equal blame is beyond me, but its clear by now you’re not interested in having a rational conversation, and want to throw a bitch fit anytime someone refuses to pin all of the blame on Phil for a mess. But don’t worry, I will continue to set you straight here.

    152. Philmelo

      Again. This has nothing to do with Melo.

      LOL. What? You think this team wins with Melo if they have Steve Kerr as the head coach and Ujiri as a GM. He’s done. Washed up. Overpaid. A coach killer. It sure as hell has something to do with him. Saying it doesn’t only makes you look like an extremely irrational denialist.

    153. U Got A lot of Girbaud Jeans HA

      Chris Paul the only guy with heart(rough rider??) on the Clippers

    154. Philmelo

      Melo could have played at 13-14 production levels every year of his deal and it really wouldnt have made much of a difference.

      But he didn’t play like that player. He was way fucking worse and it sure as hell made a difference. In 2013-14 he was a .172 WS/48 player. This season he was a .089 WS/48 player – worst mark in his overrated career.

      Yeah, that’s how bad Melo has become. Welcome to the reality of him.

    155. Reub On Our Way To Greatness

      The Clippers will feel they need Melo soon. The Cavs too. Love is blind.

    156. Philmelo

      Jesus, that knee injury to Rudy Gobert doesn’t look so great. It will be a major blow to the Jazz and a super promising career if he tore anything there.

    157. Philmelo

      Clippers can’t even beat Jazz without Gobert. They need another ruff ridah’ star who is hungry to win. I wonder where they can find one?

    158. er

      Wow, you really are salty

      You goddamn right i am. I have been pushed to the point of not caring about a team ive loved since childhood. I just cant deal anymore. so yes iam mad.

    159. er

      LOL. What? You think this team wins with Melo if they have Steve Kerr as the head coach and Ujiri as a GM. He’s done. Washed up. Overpaid. A coach killer. It sure as hell has something to do with him. Saying it doesn’t only makes you look like an extremely irrational denialist.

      You are a Melo consumed zelot/idiot. I will no longer respond to your stupid posts.

    160. Philmelo

      You goddamn right i am. I have been pushed to the point of not caring about a team ive loved since childhood. I just cant deal anymore. so yes iam mad.

      The night is always darkest before the dawn and the dawn is coming – once Melo leaves.

    161. er

      agreed. Waiting on the details b/c of this.

      The details are that he didnt even want to talk to Phil and may not come back to NY til right before training camp. lol not sure what else you need.

    162. JK47

      All this talk of triangle, triangle, triangle is kind of ridiculous when the team’s main problem is that it’s an unbelievably shitty defensive team. At this point it’s remarkable how many shitty defensive players Phil Jackson has brought to the Knicks. His teams were always bad ass defensive teams but his Knicks teams are so fucking soft. I’m talkin’ baby thighs soft, nahmsayin’?

      They were the worst defensive rebounding team in the league and one of the worst at generating turnovers. They were the #26 defense overall. The starting backcourt of Rose and Lee were BULLSHIT defensively. Melo was terrible defensively. The schemes were awful and the effort was poor.

      So forget about the triangle– how about fixing all of THAT shit?

    163. jk_in_the_park

      The details are that he didnt even want to talk to Phil and may not come back to NY til right before training camp. lol not sure what else you need.

      KP’s statement (if any). Phil’s statement (if any).

    164. Philmelo

      You are a Melo consumed zelot/idiot. I will no longer respond to your stupid posts.

      Bwahahahahahaha. I don’t give two shits about your idol. My only hope is that he leaves tomorrow so that once he’s gone I will never have to worry about him poisoning this team and won’t have to worry about you throwing bitch fits whenever someone notes his many faults as a player and leader.

    165. jk_in_the_park

      So forget about the triangle– how about fixing all of THAT shit?

      Point absolutely taken. I think “Triangle” has morphed a bit into “Listening to the coaches.” A few high profile players don’t seem to listen. Some lower profile players do. But you are right about the D.

    166. er

      KP’s statement (if any). Phil’s statement (if any).

      The funny thing is I think KP is far more diplomatic and media savy than Phil. So he most likely will keep it real PC

    167. er

      The Cavs may be in trouble, only issue is that Toronto may be in trouble too. I think thats the only team that can beat them out East

    168. jk_in_the_park

      The funny thing is I think KP is far more diplomatic and media savy than Phil. So he most likely keep it real PC

      Right, but KP’s previous support for Phil (per @172) makes his exit action curious, no?

      I also wonder if KP might be disappointed/frustrated with the trainers and his injury treatments.

    169. Philmelo

      So forget about the triangle– how about fixing all of THAT shit?

      This was also addressed in the press conference so its not like Phil doesn’t acknowledge the problem. But the coaching structure he’s created is total shit right now if what Woj reported is true. Its rife with so much miscommunication and bad feelings.

    170. Grocer

      Melo’s def a liability but I can’t see our situation really changing much when he’s gone as long as Phil’s still a bigger liability.

    171. er

      KP is in a bad situation and i truly feel for him. Anyone who comes here as well is coming into chaos from top to bottom

    172. Philmelo

      Melo’s def a liability but I can’t see our situation really changing much when he’s gone as long as Phil’s still a bigger liability.

      We’ll definitely still suck. But we’ll actually begin the full rebuild we’ve always wanted. My hope is that Phil fails upward and adds enough talent to amass something resembling a future core.

    173. Grocer

      My hope is that Phil fails upward and adds enough talent to amass something resembling a future core.

      I hope so, but I’ve got no faith. I think it’ll be the same shit with a new ‘star.’ Except now Phil seems to have turned the team against him. What’s the over/under gonna be of draftees refusing to work out for the Knicks?

    174. Philmelo

      What’s the over/under gonna be of draftees refusing to work out for the Knicks?

      Its a good question. I can’t imagine Phil ever picking Lonzo Ball due to Lavar’s penchant for calling out his sons’ coaches, for example, which is real fucking sad. I guess it will be another issue moving forward. Though I must say, a part of me also doesn’t want a player who is too fragile to deal with Phil’s bullshit. Same goes for KP, too.

    175. Ingmarrr

      @169 Saying it doesn’t only makes you look like an extremely irrational denialist

      That’s what er is. He was all in on the Rose and Noah moves, all in on Melo the Great, all in on All Is Well. Then when it went to pieces he disappeared.
      I think he’s Ruruland.

    176. er

      That’s what er is. He was all in on the Rose and Noah moves, all in on Melo the Great, all in on All Is Well. Then when it went to pieces he disappeared.
      I think he’s Ruruland.

      First off i was not all in on Noah. And yes I hoped Rose would work. So what? I think Melo is better than most here, so what?

      I have a life, I don’t need to post here every day to make myself feel good. I tried to give Jackson a chance but he’s way worse than I thought. So what? Keep my name out ya mouth

    177. Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada

      Remember when all we had to deal with was the endless stream of bargnani GIFs and Woodson uttering Zen koans like “the east is big.”

      I still can’t forgive Woodson for starting K-Mart next to Ty Chandler and refusing to run dual PG sets with Felton and Pablo during the Pacers series though. Or for throwing Beno under the bus. But man, do I miss him.

    178. er

      I am a pessimist now. So what. It aint that serious. (i dont post when im not interested. What the hell is there to be interested about this team?)

    179. er

      I still can’t forgive Woodson for starting K-Mart next to Ty Chandler and refusing to run dual PG sets with Felton and Pablo during the Pacers series though.

      That is the thing that will haunt us

    180. BigBlueAL

      I don’t miss Woodson’s in-game coaching moves at all but I’ll say this for him, the players for the most part loved playing for him and most importantly Woodson brought out the best in Melo. The Knicks went 109-79 with Woodson as their head coach which incredibly makes him the 3rd best coach in Knicks history winning % wise behind only Riley and JVG. Of course those 2 had much better postseason success than Woodson had.

      Jesus Christ I can’t believe I’m yearning for the days when Woodson was the head coach.

    181. Frank

      I can’t help but wonder whether this mutiny is a well-orchestrated group effort. Melo prides himself on being a chess player, and so if one were to look at all this as a strategy in which “all the chips are on the table”, here’s how it would play out:

      1 – Melo goes into exit meeting daring Phil to say that the whole deal is Melo’s fault, that he’s not interested in winning and that Melo is better off elsewhere

      2- Phil takes the bait and basically can’t help himself by blaming everyone by himself in a high-profile press conference, making himself look like the arrogant tool that he is. He further takes the bait by telling everyone that Melo needs to go elsewhere even though he has 2 years left on his contract.

      3 – KP lobs a grenade into the situation, making it clear the situation is even more dysfunctional than we thought it was.

      4- Woj gets involved, airing out the team’s dirty laundry in what is the league’s best respected and informed basketball column. See Phil, you’re not the only one that can air dirty laundry in print and expect to walk away scot-free.

      5- NBPA gets involved. Who runs the NBPA? The banana boat buddies. Shocking, I say. And who does Michele Roberts appeal to? The commissioner, and by extension, all the other owners, basically saying Phil Jackson is embarrassing the entire league.

      Now – if David Stern were still commissioner, I could imagine that perhaps Dolan could be “gently encouraged” to dump Phil. Not sure Adam Silver has that in his bag of tricks yet.

      But one can hope…?

      I feel like I have to write another letter to Dolan. He obviously actually reads these emails. God would I love to see JVG back here running things as coach/GM.

    182. Frank

      @172 and KP’s defense of the Triangle –

      that defense of the Triangle was reported on March 1 — which is 11 days before what sounds like a major event in the locker room – that fight between the players and Hornacek/Rambis at halftime of the Nets game. One wonders whether that was the beginning of the mutiny. And interesting to consider who leaked that locker room blowup to the media – Phil’s side or Melo’s side?

      Man, Rambis sounds like a dick. All the arrogance of Phil Jackson without any of the success.

    183. stratomatic

      To the extent that there is dissatisfaction in the organization it’s because Phil would like to run the triangle and some of the coaches (Fisher) and players (Melo, Jennings etc..) do not.

      That conflict has impacted players because Phil has experimented with various degrees of compromise in order to appease people. As those various experiments have disappointed, the response has been to keep tweaking and changing the offense. But none of the tweaks have been satisfactory to either side and the constant change has added to the frustration of the players. Now it’s at a boiling point, but Phil has finally responded correctly.

      Phil is the boss. If you are the boss you lay down the law and you sink or swim on the merits of what you want. That means getting rid of all players and coaches that are resistant to what you are trying to accomplish. Hornacek agreed. So he can stay. Melo and anyone else that disagrees MUST go. Once the team has a consistent direction KP will be fine. He even expressed a desire to go back to the triangle during the year.

      Whether the triangle is a good choice is another issue.

      Personally, I think any offense that emphasizes spacing, ball movement, & player movement will work fine if the players buy in and have the right skills. I also think Phil is correct that 3 pointers have become overvalued. The triangle may or may not be the optimal offense, but it will work.

      For example, when KP shoots a 3, there’s almost no chance he will get fouled or get an offensive rebound. If he was in the post, his eFG% might be lower, but when you add in extra FTs and possessions from getting his own rebound, it gets a lot more interesting. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with developing a good mid range & post game that results in more FTs and offensive rebounds. That does not preclude taking wide open 3s when given the opportunity.

    184. bidiong

      I agree with you Strat.

      As far as KP goes he’ll be fine. Phil is gone in two years. The best thing to do is get Melo out and run the youth movement. Once basketball is fun again the drama will disappear.

    185. stratomatic

      that defense of the Triangle was reported on March 1 — which is 11 days before what sounds like a major event in the locker room – that fight between the players and Hornacek/Rambis at halftime of the Nets game. One wonders whether that was the beginning of the mutiny. And interesting to consider who leaked that locker room blowup to the media – Phil’s side or Melo’s side?

      Melo is the head of the snake. He’s poison to the team, organization, and most importantly KP. Get rid of him and things will begin to turn.

    186. The Infamous Cdiggy

      @ 205 & 207 +111111111

      He’s realized the need to pivot. His Derrick Rose gamble didn’t pay off, and while Noah’s contract is bad, it won’t be nearly as crippling as Amare’s.

      My take is this: I like Melo, but as a basketball player, he’s not the leader we need (nor was he really ever in totality, although he had his Dad Melo season last year). Phil thought that his “system basketball” would flesh out Melo’s game and probably do him a solid as he ages, but it didn’t work. Obviously, folks have the right to fault Phil for being wrong on that – I don’t. How many times in life has a new regime come in and said, “hey, we have inherited an established talent (or product) that we think our new system will make better”? Phil is far from the first and won’t be the last in that regard.

      His biggest error was giving Melo the NTC; I believe Phil thought that the extra power/weight would inspire Melo to buy into not just the head of the team, but to be type of basketball player (esp mentally) who could be the beacon of his system basketball the way Kobe/Shaq/Pippen/Jordan were. Coaches often believe they can get the best out of a player, and as Francesca said in his rant, Phil is a coach mentally, not a executive.

      I won’t argue with those that feel Phil isn’t capable, but let’s see if he can do what he needs to do this offseason. And lastly, I’ve said this before and I’ll say it again to those who want the owner to remove Phil: You’re asking James Dolan to step in and resolve something, to find a positive solution to a problem for this franchise. James Dolan, aka Guitar Jimmy, the bane of our Knick fandom existence. You may not like what’s Phil’s done or how he’s going about his business, but think real hard before giving any ounce of thought to appealing to Dolan to help.

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