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Sunday, April 23, 2017

Knicks Morning News (2017.04.13)

  • [NY Newsday] Carmelo Anthony decides to play finale, Knicks beat 76ers to close season
    (Thursday, April 13, 2017 12:25:26 AM)

    Carmelo Anthony laced up his sneakers and wore the Knicks’ home white uniform for perhaps one last time instead of spending what could have been his final game with the team on the bench in a blazer.

  • [NY Newsday] Knicks doctors recommend surgery for Joakim Noah
    (Wednesday, April 12, 2017 7:56:38 PM)

    The Knicks announced Joakim Noah has a right shoulder injury and that team doctors are recommending surgery, but no decision has been made.

  • [NY Newsday] Knicks Insider podcast: Jeff Hornacek on Carmelo Anthony, disappointing 2017 season
    (Wednesday, April 12, 2017 12:49:51 PM)

    The Knicks’ disappointing 2017 season comes to an end on Wednesday night, which means it’s time to reflect on what went wrong and how to fix it.

  • [NYPost] It took 3 years for Phil Jackson to run the Knicks into the ground
    (Wednesday, April 12, 2017 11:56:29 PM)

    Let’s say this as plainly as we can: Phil Jackson has been a failure in three years running the Knicks. He has been an abject failure. He has taken a team one year removed from the Eastern Conference semifinals, a team that won 38 games and fell one game shy of the playoffs the same…

  • [NYPost] Knicks’ ugly aftermath: Five reasons for a lost season
    (Wednesday, April 12, 2017 10:24:23 PM)

    The third full season of the Phil Jackson Regime with the Knicks thankfully ended Wednesday at the Garden. Reflecting upon 2016-17, a third-straight 50-defeat season, one question immediately comes to mind. What rhymes with garbage? The question most ask after a promise-filled 16-13 start implodes is: What went wrong? We might learn in August what…

  • [NYPost] Carmelo won’t rule out a Knicks return — if one condition is met
    (Wednesday, April 12, 2017 9:23:49 PM)

    Carmelo Anthony wants to win next season or else he may seek that divorce. Anthony came, played, was serenaded with one last Garden chant and then said afterward his decision whether to part ways with the Knicks will hinge on whether team president Phil Jackson expresses “a commitment to win’’ now. Anthony said he will…

  • [NYPost] Knicks end disastrous season with one more disaster: a win
    (Wednesday, April 12, 2017 6:42:33 PM)

    The Knicks’ 70th anniversary season ended Wednesday night with a 114-113 Garden win over the 76ers, locking up a 31-51 record and possibly costing them the sixth seed in the NBA draft lottery. With the costly last-second victory on Maurice Ndour’s game-winner and a Minnesota loss in Houston, the Knicks and Timberwolves finished tied for…

  • [NYPost] Now Carmelo will play in his possible Knicks farewell
    (Wednesday, April 12, 2017 2:50:44 PM)

    Carmelo Anthony decided to suit up for what could very well be his last game as a Knick on Wednesday against the Sixers in the season finale. Anthony apparently didn’t want last Thursday’s loss against Washington, in which he bricked a last-second 3-pointer, to serve as his swan song if Phil Jackson indeed trades him…

  • [SNY Knicks] Anthony, Knicks close out season with win over 76ers
    (Wednesday, April 12, 2017 10:48:02 PM)

    Carmelo Anthony scored 17 points after deciding to play in what could be his final game with the Knicks, and New York beat the Philadelphia 76ers 114-113 on Wednesday night.

  • [SNY Knicks] Tonight’s Game: Knicks vs. 76ers
    (Wednesday, April 12, 2017 6:23:57 PM)

    The Knicks take on the 76ers at Madison Square Garden in the final game of the season.

  • [SNY Knicks] Joakim Noah still deciding over rotator cuff surgery
    (Wednesday, April 12, 2017 6:41:02 PM)

    Joakim Noah has not decided if he will have surgery on his injured on shoulder, head coach Jeff Hornacek told reporters before Wednesday’s game.

  • [NYTimes] Celtics Edge Cavaliers for Eastern Conference’s Top Seed
    (Thursday, April 13, 2017 3:56:09 AM)

    Boston beat Milwaukee and Cleveland lost to Toronto on the final day of the N.B.A.’s regular season, for which several teams rested their best players.

  • [NYTimes] Knicks 114, 76ers 113: Knicks, in What Could Be Carmelo Anthony’s Finale With Team, Top 76ers
    (Thursday, April 13, 2017 5:02:37 AM)

    Anthony scored 17 points but sat out the final 15 minutes of a 1-point victory as the Knicks finished the season 31-51 and faced the potential loss of their star.

  • [NYTimes] Is Russell Westbrook’s Season the Best Ever? Some Apples and Oranges to Pick From
    (Wednesday, April 12, 2017 4:12:46 PM)

    Westbrook’s rather outrageous regular season must be considered the single greatest season by any athlete ever, right? No? Here are some other contenders.

  • [NYTimes] Forgettable Knicks’ Season Ends, but Bonds Remain
    (Thursday, April 13, 2017 1:07:05 AM)

    Despite a poor won-loss record, and intrigue about where Carmelo Anthony may end up, New York has been an interesting experience for the team’s new players.

  • [NYTimes] For Knicks’ Joakim Noah, a Fitting End to a Bad Season
    (Thursday, April 13, 2017 1:30:40 AM)

    The team said that Noah, suspended last month for a positive drug test, had had a rotator cuff problem since January and that doctors had recommended surgery.

  • [NYDN] Phil Jackson, Knicks continue to shun media
    (Wednesday, April 12, 2017 9:59:21 PM)

    The number of questions Phil Jackson will field on this disastrous season – and the uncertain future — will remain at zero.

  • [NYDN] Jackson, not Anthony, is to blame for Knicks’ problems
    (Wednesday, April 12, 2017 9:59:17 PM)

    Anthony’s future will be the recurring storyline this offseason.

  • [NYDN] Carmelo Anthony decides to suit up for potential Knicks farewell
    (Wednesday, April 12, 2017 4:46:48 PM)

    The Knicks, of course, stood to lose more by winning.

  • [NYDN] Melo available vs. Sixers, what could be last game as a Knick
    (Wednesday, April 12, 2017 2:19:01 PM)

    Carmelo Anthony, who seemed unlikely to play in the Knicks’ season finale against the Sixers, will now be available to play.

  • 171 comments on “Knicks Morning News (2017.04.13)

    1. DS

      So the Sixers also moved ahead of the Magic in the draft with Orlando winning last night. You’d think teams would have an easier time losing games!

    2. Z-man

      So do we take the best player available and then try to trade one of our youngsters and O’Quinn (e.g. who we pick) for a PG?

      Would a team like Boston or the Lakers trade their Pick for Melo and a sweetener like O’Quinn?

      Do we stand pat, take the BPA (Isaac? Smith? Markkanen? Collins?) and roll with it?

      How about if Melo waives his NTC but nobody wants him?

      So many possibilities…

    3. chrisconley

      So according to that Post article there’s no coin flip. We pool and split our ping pong balls with Wolves. 18.3% at top-3, 5.3% at no. 1. At least we can’t lose the flip! It’s like chopping the pot in poker to avoid the inevitable bad luck we know was coming.

    4. Z-man

      There is a flip. If neither team moves up in your scenario, the flip determines who picks first. So for example, if the draft order is unchanged by the lottery (i.e. no team moves up) the coin flip determines who picks 6th and 7th.

      So it is definitely better that we split the 6th and 7th ping-pong balls, but only marginally so. Unless we win the coin flip, then we would be marginally worse off than without the split.

      Whatever, it’s out of our hands, let fate unfold, relax and enjoy (!) it.

    5. Z-man

      The worst “realistic” scenario is that a team moves up other than us or Minny, then we lose the flip, which will land us at #8.

      The next worst is that Minny moves up and we land at #7.

      The third worst is that no one moves up, we lose the coin flip and pick #7.

      There is no way that two teams below us move up, that’s like a 1% probability, right?

    6. Accidentank 2017

      It sounds like Melo will indeed waive his NTC. He’s in win now mode and said yesterday he only stays if the Knicks are dumb enough to be in win now mode. The best deal we can expect from Boston would be Melo, O’Quinn, and our 2017 1st in exchange for Boston’s top 3 pick and some filler like Jaylen Brown and Marcus Smart or something.

      LAL won’t trade for Melo considering they want to have Lonzo Ball’s babies. I want nothing to do with any of the Clippers’ assets.

      Cleveland will without a doubt be interested. Having Melo and O’Quinn could give them their very own death line up with Irving, Korver, LeBron, Melo, and Thompson/Love (whoever they keep), and then we can ideally flip the Cavalier that gets traded to a team for assets. I think Love ultimately gets traded back to Minnesota and we reap the benefits of Rubio, Ntilikina, and Johnny Isaac next season.

    7. DS

      So do we take the best player available and then try to trade one of our youngsters and O’Quinn (e.g. who we pick) for a PG?

      Would a team like Boston or the Lakers trade their Pick for Melo and a sweetener like O’Quinn?

      Do we stand pat, take the BPA (Isaac? Smith? Markkanen? Collins?) and roll with it?

      How about if Melo waives his NTC but nobody wants him?

      So many possibilities…

      We find the best fit for the triangle. Duh.

    8. DS

      If Philly somehow bumps the Lakers out of the top 3 and gets their pick I feel like we’ll have two teams in our division — Boston and Philly — that we won’t be able to compete with for the next decade.

      Simulate the lottery a bunch of times (http://www.tankathon.com/) that shit will happen to you a lot.

    9. Brian Cronin

      There is a flip.

      I think it might have just been a matter of semantics by the Post, in the sense that it is true that they don’t literally flip coins to break the ties (despite it always being described as a coin flip). It’s a random draw instead.

    10. Brian Cronin

      It sounds like Melo will indeed waive his NTC. He’s in win now mode and said yesterday he only stays if the Knicks are dumb enough to be in win now mode.

      You have to always stress “sounds like” with Melo, as he often says things that sound like he is ready to leave but then he, well, you know, doesn’t leave. :)

    11. Brian Cronin

      Phil Jackson picked up his 2 year option, whatever that means.

      I believe both sides picked up the option, which Dolan said he was going to do, so that was expected. But yes, that locks in that Phil will be here for the lifetime of his contract. But will Melo be here for the lifetime of his contract? You can’t say that these guys don’t make it at least a little interesting, at least. :)

    12. vincoug

      There is no way that two teams below us move up, that’s like a 1% probability, right?

      Sacramento and Dallas have the best odds to move up in the draft. The chances that both would move up are 0.6%. Any other combination of teams would have worse odds.

    13. DRed

      Every off season Melo says something cryptic about moving on if it’s in the best interest of the team if we’re not trying to win, every year we sign some mediocre vets and Melo says we’ve got a great team.

    14. Brian Cronin

      Yeah, pretty much any move short of Jackson not signing any veteran free agents will always get the Melo seal of approval. Dude was pumped about Arron freakin’ Afflalo!

    15. Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada

      You always draft BPA in our position imo. That means if Fox is taken at 6-8 we should be looking at one of Smith, Ntilikina, Isaac, or Collins

    16. swiftandabundant

      We stand pat and take BPA and draft 2 kids with our second round picks. We then look to move Melo. Then we see if there is anything of value for Quinn and Lee (Lee is more likely I think). Move them if something good comes up (or include in a Melo deal). If not, they are fine to bring back.

      Then we tell Noah to retire and pay him the rest of his contract (or hire him as a big man coach).

      That last part I know is silly but hey, with him being out yet again, it might be time to start that convo with him.

    17. KnickfaninNJ

      I think Noah is going to want to prove himself with a vengeance next season, if he’s really healthy, we should let him do that and then trade him mid-season. Now we’d have to pay to get rid of him. But if he’s reasonable for the first half of next season, we will get a much better deal then.

    18. TheOakmanCometh

      The lottery is May 16. All that’s left to do now is pray.

      Give us a break, basketball gods. ONE TIME!

    19. djphan

      i think noah can be fine as a bench big… i think he does have some decent minutes left in him since when he was on the court he wasn’t that bad altho probably bad for a starter…

    20. Z-man

      I am super impressed by Isaac’s highlights vs. top ncaa comp. He is looking like a monster sf hybrid. I think teams are gonna regret passing on him.

    21. thenoblefacehumper

      There is nothing I’d like more than to draft Jonathan Isaac, but if we pick 7th I’m positive he’ll be gone. There is no way the Wolves pass on him. Even at 6 I have my doubts but we could at least hope.

    22. Brian Cronin

      I am super impressed by Isaac’s highlights vs. top ncaa comp. He is looking like a monster sf hybrid. I think teams are gonna regret passing on him.

      I was saying this a while back, but he’s precisely the type of player who rises in the draft the closer you get to the actual draft. You know, teams think one way now but after watching them workout, the athletic freaks tend to rise. I said that about Ntilikina, as well, but honestly, there are just too many guys in the top of the draft, I think, for him to rise too much. Not a knock on Ntilikina, it’s more a matter of just too much supply.

    23. Accidentank 2017

      If the Knicks play their cards right, they can be good next year. There are always good players available in every FA period and it’s up to the Knicks to identify those guys. James Johnson, Joe Ingles, Patty Mills, Jeff Teague, George Hill, Ty Lawson would all provide us with a good upgrade over what we have and that’s just the FA market. Eric Bledsoe and Ricky Rubio could also be traded this summer, and then we have our draft picks. A Melo trade would be preferred, but even if we can’t trade him, I’d watch Dennis Smith Jr, Courtney Lee, Carmelo Anthony, Kristaps Porzingis, Willy Hernangomez, Mo NDour, Chasson Randle, James Johnson, and Kyle O’Quinn win 40 games next season with no problem.

    24. TheOakmanCometh

      I believe our odds of drafting at each spot are as follows:

      Drafting 10th: 0.0001%
      Drafting 9th: 1%
      Drafting 8th: 13.6%
      Drafting 7th: 47.2%
      Drafting 6th: 22%

      Drafting 3rd: 7%
      Drafting 2nd: 6%
      Drafting 1st: 5.3%

    25. Accidentank 2017

      Johnathan Isaac has the highest ceiling of anybody in this draft and it’s not close. He can do everything you want from a forward offensively and defensively. I’m certain he’ll go to Minnesota unless Lauri Markannen is the pick there. The draft is going to go like this:

      LAL: Lonzo Ball
      BOS: Markelle Fultz
      PHO: Josh Jackson
      PHI: Dennis Smith Jr
      ORL: Jayson Tatum
      MIN: Markannen/Isaac
      NYK: DeAaron Fox

    26. Z-man

      It seems like the key guys to watch are Monk and Markkanen. Maybe Smith and Collins too. Another consideration: Zach Collins was not considered until recently. It’s entirely possible that he gets taken in the top 5, no?

    27. Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada

      Philly isn’t picking DSJr when Brown has already said that Simmons will be playing the 1 next year. It’s gonna be Monk or Tatum for Philly. Maybe a slight chance of Markannen if they intend to trade Okafor.

    28. Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada

      It seems like the key guys to watch are Monk and Markkanen. Maybe Smith and Collins too. Another consideration: Zach Collins was not considered until recently. It’s entirely possible that he gets taken in the top 5, no?

      Considering that Collins was amazing–by far the most productive freshman in the country–I think it’s entirely possible he goes top 5 if he kills it in workouts. I don’t see him leapfrogging Tatum, though. He’s probably worthy of a top 5 pick, too. I think he’s in that tier below Ball/Fultz/Jackson along with Fox and Isaac.

      I’d still take Fox or Isaac but I’m confident that Collins will be really good–and probably has the highest floor of almost anyone in this draft.

    29. Brian Cronin

      Philly isn’t picking DSJr when Brown has already said that Simmons will be playing the 1 next year. It’s gonna be Monk or Tatum for Philly. Maybe a slight chance of Markannen.

      I think it depends on how many picks they have. I think Monk is likely going to be one of their picks, but only if they have two. I could see them taking a point guard, as why not give yourself a back-up to Simmons? And if they have two picks, it almost certainly means that they made it into the top three, so they could have Fultz and Monk or Ball and Monk. Although I guess if you have Fultz, it makes more sense to pick a forward for the second pick.

    30. swiftandabundant

      @ 19 – I mean that would be great but now he’s out for 4 to 6 months with rotator cuff surgery which is baffling bc how do you tear your rotator cuff when you aren’t even playing unless he was really working out hard or something. So now he won’t have the summer to get into shape, work on his shot, etc. He’s gonna not even be able to come back until after the season starts and then he has to serve the suspension. Lets say he is only out 5 months, that means maybe he’s back by training camp if we’re lucky and either way he misses the first 10 games of the season I think. Its a bad situation. Dude needed the off season to get healthy. Although maybe that is why his shot was so god awful this year and he can finally get that right.

    31. djphan

      collins certainly deserves to be in the discussion in the top 5… i’d actually probably rate him just behind fultz… he is the most underrated prospect in the draft and he actually has the most upside… his per 40 numbers resemble embiid’s and some of the other great center prospects and better in some respects…

      but he just didn’t play all that much and everyone else got considerably more hype than him and delivered… i can only see boston looking at him if they fall out of the top 4 and maybe the magic but that’s about it…

    32. Accidentank 2017

      Zach Collins plays a lot like Rudy Gobert. I’m really weary of late risers, but his film checks out. Biyombo was a late riser and he turned out okay I guess.

    33. Philmelo

      Philly should want off the ball guards like Monk and especially Ntilikina, with the latter giving them outside shooting and perimeter defense.

    34. Brian Cronin

      Isn’t McConnell gonna be their backup PG?

      I don’t think you pass up any of these guards because of TJ McConnell.

    35. Hubert

      Would a team like Boston or the Lakers trade their Pick for Melo and a sweetener like O’Quinn?

      No, I think we’re looking at getting a lot less.

    36. Owen

      I can honestly say I would have no interest in making the Knicks draft decision this year. Seems like a really really difficult choice.

    37. DRed

      Isaac is trash off the bounce with the rock. His jumper goes in sometimes, but it’s not wet. Can he create a look in the last 4 seconds of the shot clock like a main option on a playoff team? Looks like a guy whose ceiling is 4th best player on an eastern conference mid-seed playoff team.

    38. Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada

      Is this facetious? Because arguments about the importance of late-clock shot-creation are lame.

    39. lavor postell

      Isaac is an awesome prospect because of the type of lineup versatility he gives you. I think he’s gonna climb draft boards or just get picked much sooner than projected. I expect to see Tatum, Isaac and Jackson to all go top 5.

    40. Brian Cronin

      Isaac is an awesome prospect because of the type of lineup versatility he gives you. I think he’s gonna climb draft boards or just get picked much sooner than projected. I expect to see Tatum, Isaac and Jackson to all go top 5.

      Agreed, but I think that the projections will also adjust accordingly. He’s always been a guy destined to rise over early projections.

    41. Z-man

      Any chance the Celts take Collins? They do need a C so that Horford can slide over to the 4. Collins looks like he can play right away.

    42. Brian Cronin

      I guess if the pick falls to, like, #4. But otherwise, no. I think they’d just as soon deal the pick in that scenario.

    43. lavor postell

      The Celtics I think will take a wing if they don’t land the #1 pick. It’s been reported for awhile that they really want a star wing and I think a guy like Tatum fits the bill for what they’re looking for in that regard.

    44. yellowboy90

      I put Isaac potential in the range of these forwards: Hedo Turkoglu, Rashard Lewis, Danilo Gallinari, Chandler Parsons, and Giannis Antetokounmpo. He was a former pg who is still adjusting to how to dribble at his size. What I like is that he seems to have better defensive insticts than any of those forwards. Maybe he never becomes Giannis but what if he is similar to a Chandler Parsons (healthy) but with better rebounding and defense. That would be a quality pick up at 6/7.

    45. Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada

      I could see them picking Jackson or Isaac, since Jackson can be slotted in at the 2 or 3 position along w Brown and Isaac can be slotted in at the 3 or 4 position along with Brown. If they’re interested in trading Brown though I could see them grabbing Tatum.

      If they have the first overall I imagine they’re picking Fultz, though.

    46. Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada

      What can be said about the passing of Buck Nasty that hasn’t already been said about Afghanistan?

    47. Cock Jowles, The Nostradumbass Who Still Beat Your Weak Preseason Picks

      His jumper goes in sometimes, but it’s not wet.

      I laughed out loud.

    48. DRed

      I could see them picking Jackson or Isaac, since Jackson can be slotted in at the 2 or 3 position along w Brown and Isaac can be slotted in at the 3 or 4 position along with Brown. If they’re interested in trading Brown though I could see them grabbing Tatum.

      If they have the first overall I imagine they’re picking Fultz, though.

      Boston will probably prefer a point guard, because they are not going to want to pay Thomas when he hits free agency. All Boston’s moves are about trying to stay competitive while not paying the luxury tax. They’ve had clear chances to increase their current title odds by taking on salary for future assets and every year they don’t pull the trigger and leak some bullshit to the press about how they were so close to deal X or really regret not offering more for player Y. They understand having high lotto picks is the best way to get cheap talent, and that’s their highest priority-staying competitive while maximizing earnings. They want to win, but their main priority is making money. Then they’ll run out the Boy Wonder to talk about how close they were when they lose.

    49. djphan

      rashard lewis is a real good comp for isaac… maybe more of an evolved version since isaac i think is much more of a true 4 rather than lewis being an undersized 4/ big 3…

    50. chrisconley

      Thanks to Z-man and Oakman for breaking down the draft order scenarios. So it looks like we should count on 7th (more than twice as likely as any other scenario) and hope for the best. Glad to see 8th is pretty much our worst case.

    51. Z-man

      Fultz is interesting. He’s not a LeBron-level can’t miss pick and there are lots of players with similar ceilings but lower floors in this draft. He does have that superstar swag, but I wonder whether the team drafting first (especially the Celts) will have a hard time pulling the trigger. He didn’t really have much success in college in terms of wins.

      Who’s the last guard that was a consensus #1 pick that turned out to be the best player from that draft? My guess: Magic Johnson. Kyrie wasn’t (Kawhi), John Wall wasn’t (Whiteside, Hayward), Rose wasn’t, etc.

      This is probably due to big man bias, but it also could mean that guards are harder to predict. I’m wondering if we have a small man bias going on right now. Everyone wants the next Steph, or Harden, or Russ.

    52. chrisk06811

      So, if Philly gets lucky and moves from 4th to 3rd, they will have 2 likely top 5 picks. they could end up with Simmons, Fox, Johnson, Saric and Imbied starting next year. Then…..they have 4, 2nd roundpicks

    53. Philmelo

      He’s not a LeBron-level can’t miss pick and there are lots of players with similar ceilings but lower floors in this draft.

      Even Lebron wasn’t a can’t miss pick. There was a good deal of second guessing as to whether he or even Carmelo was the better choice at the time.

    54. Z-man

      His jumper goes in sometimes, but it’s not wet.

      One of my best dad experiences was playing in a local full court pickup game with my son when he was about 13 or so and I was 55. I had a rep as a good player for an old guy, and after I nailed a couple of silky jumpers, one of the opponents (20-something) yelled at the guy guarding me “yo man, get up on him, he’s water!” I still give my son shit about that every time we play.

    55. Accidentank 2017

      Markelle Fultz’s best fit is in the Knicks’ triangle. He’s the perimeter scoring threat and superior athlete who can make quick decisions in a motion offense, or go Harden mode on you and carry your sorry ass role players to a 50 win season (where you’ll get crushed in the playoffs). I like him in New York and Phoenix most. By the time Fultz is fully loaded, Boston will be relying on him to carry their sorry ass role players only to get stomped by Philly or something.

      Put him in a balanced system with KP, NDour, Willy Hernangomez, and Hamidou Diallo and you have a stew.

    56. Philmelo

      Who’s the last guard that was a consensus #1 pick that turned out to be the best player from that draft? My guess: Magic Johnson. Kyrie wasn’t (Kawhi), John Wall wasn’t (Whiteside, Hayward), Rose wasn’t, etc.

      You have a point. But its also a new era guard dominant era.

    57. Philmelo

      BTW, are we so sure Whiteside and Hayward are better than Wall? I’d rather have the last than for former two on my team.

    58. swiftandabundant

      I think the point about guards is important. Its a guard dominated league no doubt but every year in the draft there seems to be a guy who isn’t the top pick who turns out to be a stud in the NBA, especially at the guard positions. I think we tend to forget that all of these players now are at the most 20 years old. So when we poke at their flaws we gotta realize that any one of them could work on that and become better in one or two seasons or even in one off season. So much of it depends on the work ethic of that kid, the situation they go into and also there’s just some luck to it.

    59. SJK

      Who’s the last guard that was a consensus #1 pick that turned out to be the best player from that draft? My guess: Magic Johnson. Kyrie wasn’t (Kawhi), John Wall wasn’t (Whiteside, Hayward), Rose wasn’t, etc.

      First of all, guards are rarely drafted #1 overall. After DRose, you’d have to all the way back to Iverson in ’96. Second, of that listed Kyrie is no scrub, Wall is definitely the best player in that draft class and is better than both Whiteside and Hayward and Rose is somewhat of an exceptional case as he was certainly the best player in that class before his injuries. You would say Russ now, but prime Rose v Russ is a toss-up.

    60. thenoblefacehumper

      I think the point about guards is important. Its a guard dominated league no doubt but every year in the draft there seems to be a guy who isn’t the top pick who turns out to be a stud in the NBA, especially at the guard positions. I think we tend to forget that all of these players now are at the most 20 years old. So when we poke at their flaws we gotta realize that any one of them could work on that and become better in one or two seasons or even in one off season. So much of it depends on the work ethic of that kid, the situation they go into and also there’s just some luck to it.

      It’s going to be Jonathan Isaac and we’re going to miss him by one pick because of Maurice Ndour.

    61. Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada

      I’d give the slight edge to Hayward over Wall and I think they’re both significantly better than Whiteside who has fallen off pretty badly after becoming the primary option (still a good player however.)

    62. Hubert

      Who’s the last guard that was a consensus #1 pick that turned out to be the best player from that draft? My guess: Magic Johnson. Kyrie wasn’t (Kawhi), John Wall wasn’t (Whiteside, Hayward), Rose wasn’t, etc.

      It’s not just guards. These days, we’re talking about kids one year removed from high school. It’s so much harder to project futures today than 10-20 years ago. Guys like Kobe and Amar’e went late in the lottery because no one had a clue about them since they’d only played against high school kids. Most of the players in this draft have played a whopping 30-35 collegiate games. That’s not a lot more.

      As annoyed as I am that we slipped from 4 to maybe 7, this is a crapshoot. We went from 1 to 4 a few years back and lucked into a player who most like more than the guys who went 2 and 3. We could easily get the best player in the draft at 8.

    63. djphan

      it’s very likely that fultz doesn’t wind up the best player… there’s a ton of great prospects in the draft.. it’s just he has the least questions about his game so i don’t think there’s anyway he’s not good .. as is he’s better than anyone else if only by a hair…

      the others have more serious questions but if say jackson and fox improves his shooting like kawhi has… ball learns to get to the basket… tatum and smith stop being as ball dominant.. isaac scores and handles better… or if the bad comp and low minutes didn’t really matter with collins… then any one of them will end up being the best player… or it could be someone entirely different… in aggregate it’s pretty likely one of them will be since they are amazing prospects without those questions.. but there’s no way to tell who it will be…

      fultz doesn’t have any of those concerns.. his talent right now exceeds everyone else.. and that’s why he should be #1…

    64. Zanzibar

      All of this talk is just pissing in the wind. It doesn’t matter who we pick. Even Cronin’s reverse jinx failed when he wrote this before the game last night:

      That’s really the most embarrassing part of Jackson’s whole tenure here. He specifically tried to win now instead of rebuilding and ended up with 17 wins, 32 wins and 31 wins.

      Six months ago we were all stoked to rebuild around KP. Then he faltered and we rallied to Willy. Then Rosen told us we’re building around Holiday and Baker. This loss means we’ll now watch the Wolves once again choose the next KAT. Face it – it’s fate. We’re doomed. Listen to Ben Franklin: He that lives upon hope will die fasting.

    65. Z-man

      I don’t get to wrapped up in the #6 vs #8 thing. We have no control and our final win total was one that if far from the worst case scenario that we were concerned about at the year’s start (just missing the playoffs, no shot at a primo guard, yadayada…)

      The ball bounced both for us and against us in the last 20 games of the season. We could easily have been picking #10 or #11 with another win or two and another couple of losses by Dallas, Sacto. Pels. This is about as good as we deserve.

      And we are probably equally likely to benefit from our status as to lose from it, just like in 2015. How lucky are we that we didn’t wind up with Okafor or Russell? Or that Billy decided to come out rather than delay another year? How lucky is Indiana that no one took Myles Turner over the likes of Hezonja, Johnson, and Mudiay (all of whom they might have selected with a higher pick?)

    66. SJK

      KP says his number one goal this summer is to get stronger, which is good to hear. Is it crazy to think that with some serious time in the weight room KP could develop into some sort of monster hybrid with Gobert/Tyson-esque lob-catching/finishing ability + a three point shot and the off the dribble jump game he’s flashed?

      It’s tantalizing to think about his ceiling. The pie-in-the-sky, dream scenario is Gobert-like on D, Dirk-like on O. Mind you I’m not saying he’ll ever get there, but it’s pretty damn tantalizing to think about.

    67. Accidentank 2017

      I think the Knicks should just ask KP to be himself. Get us 24 points on a high TS% and we’ll be fine. Grab 8 boards a night. Block two shots and intimidate on defense. That’s all we need from him as long as Willy Hernangomez remains a rebounding monster and can play 32 minutes a night. We can’t plan for one anymore. It’s clear we have two, a possible 3rd in Mo NDour, and even my guy Chasson Randle.

      We need to build to KP and Willy’s strengths. Right now they need help on the perimeter. The Hornangle is a system predicated on moving the ball and cohesion. KP and Willy have shown in flashes an ability to pass, and that’s really all they need. Get some guards who can shoot and play high IQ ball and you have a winning product. Then add Hamidou Diallo to enforce his will on fast breaks and you have a starting five that will be dominant.

      5 good ballers and a good system. That’s all we need. It only becomes difficult when you think you can take guys who suck and make them good because of your system.

    68. swiftandabundant

      Don’t sleep on those 2 second round picks we got this year. That could be the difference more than our first round pick. If we pick competently in the first round but nail one of those second rounders, our future will look A LOT better.

    69. thenoblefacehumper

      I’d trade both of our seconds if it guaranteed being able to draft Sindarius Thornwell. Don’t think he’ll be there at 44 and he just might be a first rounder. Otherwise I think Allen, Trier, Meeks, Mason, and Peters would all be reasonable targets.

    70. Accidentank 2017

      Sindarius Thornwell’s film is pretty meh, and I’m not sure if he’s a good defender. My guy Peter Jok is who I’m running with as far as second rounders go. I want the athletes with good numbers and good film that slipped for a dumb reason or a Euro guy nobody has heard about.

    71. BigBlueAL

      Was reading some playoff facts today and apparently LeBron hasn’t lost a 1st rd playoff game since losing to the Knicks in Game 4 of the 2012 playoffs.

    72. heavencent35

      Could this draft be like the 96 or 2003, with a number of hall of famer? If we can get one future hall of famer please. We deserve to have a heaven sent that will give us hope and a fighting chance every year.

    73. bobneptune

      Impertinent question:

      If we offered KP to Boston, what in the way of pick/picks they part with?
      Is there any combo of Melo, KOQ and WHG that shakes Love loose from the CAVs? Could Love be shipped to Sacto for some combo of WCS ,9th and 10 (or so) picks?

    74. stratomatic

      This Noah situation is cramping our options. If we could count on him being reasonably healthy and not suspended for taking illegal supplements, you could write him in as a backup big man and live with the bad contract. But if he’s constantly hurt, it’s harder to consider doing something like moving O’Quinn for a pick or as part of some other deal (not that I want to move O’Quinn, but it would be an option if something good was offered for his bargain contract).

    75. djphan

      44 and 58 i think for 2nd rders…

      dillon brooks, jaron blossomgame, deanthony melton if he declares, monte morris, edmund sumner are all pretty strong 2nd rders… dillon brooks in particular is an interesting one…

    76. BigBlueAL

      44th pick is decent I guess but 58th pick might just be used to stash a European player. Apparently Phil will have a press conference to talk to the media tomorrow at 2:30, the beat writers on Twitter are already fired up for it lol.

    77. Brian Cronin

      Is there any combo of Melo, KOQ and WHG that shakes Love loose from the CAVs? Could Love be shipped to Sacto for some combo of WCS ,9th and 10 (or so) picks?

      I think that those three would get you Love, but that’s a lot to give up for Love. And I dunno if even the Kings are dumb enough to deal the #9 and 10 picks for Kevin Love when Love wouldn’t even make them a playoff contender.

    78. Brian Cronin

      Could this draft be like the 96 or 2003, with a number of hall of famer? If we can get one future hall of famer please. We deserve to have a heaven sent that will give us hope and a fighting chance every year.

      Unlikely, but possible. Going into those drafts, Melo and Lebron were seen as much better than anyone in this draft and Darko got a lot of hype, as well. Similarly, Iverson was hyped like CRAZY in 1996, and people were really high on Marbury and Allen (they’d each probably go #1 in this draft) and yet those guys didn’t even go top three!

    79. Brian Cronin

      44th pick is decent I guess but 58th pick might just be used to stash a European player. Apparently Phil will have a press conference to talk to the media tomorrow at 2:30, the beat writers on Twitter are already fired up for it lol.

      Oh man, this is going to be interesting. :)

    80. DRed

      It’s not just guards. These days, we’re talking about kids one year removed from high school. It’s so much harder to project futures today than 10-20 years ago

      Yeah, and it’s not like drafting was easy back then.

    81. Donnie Walsh

      Who’s the last guard that was a consensus #1 pick that turned out to be the best player from that draft?…

      This is probably due to big man bias, but it also could mean that guards are harder to predict.

      It seems like you’re over-thinking this. The sample size of those #1 guards is only 5, and all of them are/were/still could be top level players in the league. (And Jason Kidd, for example, was selected #2, and he WAS the best player in the draft.)

      I think guards are safer than bigs. In general, the top picked guards contribute at a more consistently high level than the top picked bigs. There is a lot of variance up there (with a lot of total busts). Who was the last top-picked guard to be a total bust? (even Dante Exum is going to avoid being a Sam Bowie, Greg Oden, Hasheem Thabeet, etc type flameout).

    82. Brian Cronin

      The fascinating thing about this draft to me is that is the draft itself that is being hyped up like crazy, not Fultz. Five years ago, I did a hype-meter, so let me update it with the past five years:

      1. Lebron
      2. Ewing
      3. Hakeem
      4. Duncan
      5. Shaq
      6. Webber
      7. Ming
      8. Sampson
      9. Robinson

      The trickiest is Shaq versus Duncan. I don’t recall the hype being there for Shaq as much as for Duncan. There was a ton of hype for Shaq, don’t get me wrong, just not as much as Duncan. But anyhow, the belief with those nine was you were getting an almost certain Hall of Famer in your draft. Ming, Sampson and Robinson all carried with them some doubt, but not much.

      Then I’d go:

      10. Manning
      11. Iverson
      12. Oden/Durant (the hype was for getting either or)
      13. Griffin
      14. Rose/Beasley
      15. The Brow
      16. Towns
      17. Coleman (way too much hype for him, looking back)
      18. Brand
      19. Bogut
      20. Howard/Okafor (the hype was for getting either or – Howard was surprisingly not as hyped as you’d think)
      21. LJ
      22. Big Dog Robinson (way too much hype for him at the time)
      23. Wall
      24. Fultz/Ball
      25. Kenyon Martin (surprisingly decent amount of hype)
      26. Joe Smith (same with Smith – surprisingly large amount of hype for a guy who later became more famous for the ton of great players taken after him)
      27. Daugherty (turned out to be a stud but was not hyped)
      28. Simmons
      29. Irving (also has turned out to be better than the hype that went with him)
      30. Bargnani
      31. Wiggins
      32. Kwame Brown
      33. Pervis Ellison
      34. Michael Olowokondi
      35. Len/Oladipo/Noel (that’s how awful the top of that draft was, that the guy who was drafted #1 wasn’t even in the conversation at the time)

    83. thenoblefacehumper

      Sindarius Thornwell’s film is pretty meh, and I’m not sure if he’s a good defender. My guy Peter Jok is who I’m running with as far as second rounders go. I want the athletes with good numbers and good film that slipped for a dumb reason or a Euro guy nobody has heard about.

      For what it’s worth, Thornwell was 20th in the entire NCAA in DBPM. I agree about Jok though, would love to have him with either second rounder or as an undrafted free agent.

    84. Nick C.

      Didn’t Ralph Sampson/Steve Stipanovich lead to the end of the coin flip, even though it took a few years?

    85. Brian Cronin

      Yep. He was very hyped, but his future teammate, Olajuwon, was hyped even further.

      A lot of that had less to do with their talents as much as the popularity of the NBA itself. Sampson was probably more highly regarded as an actual prospect than either Olajuwon or Ewing, the hype machine just wasn’t there yet. For instance, if the equivalent of Sampson were to declare now it’d be pandemonium and he would likely be a lot higher on the list.

      But, of course, one of the issues is that most of these guys became more hyped because people saw them play for years. Tim Duncan going into the draft after his Freshman year would have been much less hyped than Tim Duncan entering the draft after his senior year.

    86. Donnie Walsh

      “We had the Chamberlain era, the Russell era and the Jabbar era. And I think now we’ll have the Sampson era,” longtime NBA scout Marty Blake told The Washington Post’s David DuPree before the 1983 draft.

      And SI put Sampson on the cover as a freshman with the headline: “LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, INTRODUCING THE ONE AND ONLY RALPH SAMPSON! HE DUNKS! HE BLOCKS SHOTS! HE DRIBBLES BEHIND HIS BACK! HE’S 7-FOOT-4 — AND STILL GROWING!”

      Ralph Sampson was supposed to change the game forever. Can’t get much more hyped than that.

    87. Reub On Our Way To Greatness

      I’m predicting that our second round pick (acquired from the Bulls) will give us a better player than Jerian Grant. Right now DraftExpress has players like Sindarius Thornwell, Edmond Sumner, Alpha Kaba, Frank Mason, Grayson Allen, Aleksandar Vezenkov, Nigel William-Goss, and Tyler Dorsey all within our grasp. Maybe even Josh Hart.

    88. lavor postell

      I like Thornwell a lot but I feel he’s more of an undersized 3 than a natural 2. Not exactly opposed to somebody like that in the 2nd round, just my primary concern with him. I think his defense is stout.

      Jok is legit too.

    89. Reub On Our Way To Greatness

      Ian Begley on an expletive-filled back and forth between Melo, Hornacek and Rambis on March 12th:

      “In Brooklyn, the 11-win Nets sank 14 3-pointers in the first half against the Knicks, effectively ending New York’s playoff hopes in 24 painful minutes. And head coach Jeff Hornacek wasn’t happy.
      Hornacek lit into the Knicks in the visitors locker room of the Barclays Center, and according to people familiar with the matter, Hornacek’s diatribe was expletive-filled and delivered at a high decibel level.
      It’s not uncommon for a coach to go off on his players after a pathetic showing. But what happened next was a bit surprising.
      Carmelo Anthony, whose default demeanor is relaxed and easygoing, responded with anger and expletives of his own. For those accustomed to seeing Anthony live by his oft-used idiom, “Stay Melo,” it was jarring.
      Anthony’s R-rated rant essentially questioned the direction of the entire organization, according to sources. Associate head coach Kurt Rambis fired back, calling out Anthony’s effort on defense.
      Anthony responded again, but before things could devolve further, one Knick suggested that the players head back to the court and start warming up.
      So they did.”

    90. Reub On Our Way To Greatness

      Charley Rosen:
      “Why then did Phil Jackson sign him to a lengthy, expensive and, most importantly, no-trade clause contract?
      Because the triangle requires a go-to scorer who can create his own makeable shots when the offense is stymied and the shot clock is about to expire. While Anthony is not at the level of Michael Jordan or Kobe Bryant, he certainly fills the bill here.”

      Jayson Tatum anybody?

    91. Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada

      Peter Jok has a negative DBPM in college which implies that he’s not good on defense at all

    92. Brian Cronin

      It’s good to see Jackson confirming through his puppet that he did, in fact, make the decision to give the NTC and the MegaMax to Melo.

    93. Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada

      @105

      Holy fuck they all need to go

      just kidding let’s keep Hornacek

    94. lavor postell

      If Rosen really is Phil’s puppet then this is weird

      Of course, Phil Jackson must assume the lion’s share of the blame. While his decisions were made for worthy reasons, too many of them either simply backfired or were decimated by a perpetual series of injuries to key components of his squad.

    95. SJK

      Charley Rosen:
      “Why then did Phil Jackson sign him to a lengthy, expensive and, most importantly, no-trade clause contract?
      Because the triangle requires a go-to scorer who can create his own makeable shots when the offense is stymied and the shot clock is about to expire. While Anthony is not at the level of Michael Jordan or Kobe Bryant, he certainly fills the bill here.”

      Holy fucking shit. What does that even mean. That quote is basically saying the triangle is an offensive system that only works when it has a player to bail it out when it stops working. I also hear it’s great to have a player that can make tough shots late in the shot clock when your offense is just to give him the ball and stand around. Jesus. Figure it out Phil.

    96. Grocer

      Does anybody think this year’s line-up was worse than last years, or about the same? I’m trying to get a handle on whether or not Hornacek really is a good coach or not. Evidence so far seems.. ambivalent at best.

    97. lavor postell

      @ Grocer

      Hornacek was put in a tough spot. I’m not sure it’s fair to evaluate him with the roster he was handed, but based on what we saw I’m fairly disappointed. The defensive scheme or lack thereof was a major issue, but having to scheme something with 2 guys as disinterested defensivel as Melo and Rose were this year is likely a lot harder than it seems.

    98. Reub On Our Way To Greatness

      More Rosen:
      “However, the Knicks’ fortunes could definitely improve next season. That’s because with Lee, Hernangomez, a stronger Porzingis, a healthier Lance Thomas, a valuable backup center in Kyle O’Quinn, and the continued development of Ron Baker, Mindaugas Kuzminskas, and Maurice Ndour, plus plenty of salary cap money available and a high first-round pick, the potential grounds for the first real steps on the team’s return to glory are already in place.”

      Now he sounds like me:)

    99. Reub On Our Way To Greatness

      A question:
      Should we try to win basketball games next season or not?

    100. Reub On Our Way To Greatness

      I know that Magic Johnson has greatly praised Melo recently. If they add a top player in the draft would they bite on Melo? What would we want back? Their #28 draft pick enough?

    101. JK47

      That #58 pick should be a draft-and-stash. This isn’t really a great year for Euro draft-and-stash guys but there are a few names out there that are worth a flyer.

    102. Will the Thrill

      Should we try to win basketball games next season or not?

      The smartest thing to do would be to lose (since the team most likely will still be trash), but I am all for the young guys trying their hardest every single game and furthering their development. I want our rookie PG (whoever that may be) to work together with KP and Willy in a way that will foster more development, and I don’t think tanking would do this. Unless we go out and sign some free agents, I think we will be stealth-tanking in a way by focusing on development of our youth even though it may not lead to the most wins.

    103. Reub On Our Way To Greatness

      @117 What about Frank Mason if he’s still out there? Or Tyler Dorsey? I guess that Alpha Kaba might be available as a draft and stash.

    104. Reub On Our Way To Greatness

      “Unless we go out and sign some free agents…”

      I know that Hornacek stressed our lack of defensive toughness in his final post game interview of the season. Who would fit that role from the free agent list?

    105. lavor postell

      Just put KP, Willy and lotto pick to be in the primary offensive roles and see what happens. If you win cool and if you end up with another 30 win season or whatever, that’s fine.

      It’s sink or swim time for the young’uns.

    106. Brian Cronin

      Just put KP, Willy and lotto pick to be in the primary offensive roles and see what happens. If you win cool and if you end up with another 30 win season or whatever, that’s fine.

      It’s sink or swim time for the young’uns.

      That’s definitely what it should be next year. We shall see if that’s what it is.

    107. Ben R

      In the 2nd round we should take Aleksandar Vezenkov. Plays in the ACB, a combo forward who is one of the best shooters in Europe. Shot over 44% from 3 and over 67% from 2. Also in the 97% at catch and shoot situations in all of the ACB. At 19 led the Greek league in scoring and almost came out for the draft but instead went to Barcelona and established himself as a rotation player. His athleticism is not great but his defensive instincts are solid even if he has a low defensive ceiling, his rebounding and his ability to finish around the basket is strong however. Think Kuzminskas with Novak’s jumper and five years younger. Productive Europeans that have slipped due to their athleticism have been some of the best value picks over the last couple years, like Jokic and Hernangomez.

    108. danvt

      Their #28 draft pick enough?

      If they agree to pay him 30 million, two used Wilson NCAA replica basketballs would be enough.

    109. Reub On Our Way To Greatness

      The Lakers and Magic Johnson could sure use a “star” like Melo. It would almost certainly be reported in the press as a total heist by the Lakers.

    110. stratomatic

      Charley Rosen:
      “Why then did Phil Jackson sign him to a lengthy, expensive and, most importantly, no-trade clause contract?
      Because the triangle requires a go-to scorer who can create his own makeable shots when the offense is stymied and the shot clock is about to expire. While Anthony is not at the level of Michael Jordan or Kobe Bryant, he certainly fills the bill here.”

      I think every team needs a couple of players that create for themselves late in the clock when absolutely required. But it would have been preferable to sign a couple of lesser skilled players on more attractive contracts. Gallinari may not be ideal because of all the injuries, but I’d way rather have a healthy Gallo going to FT line 7-8 times off drives and hitting 3s at his salary than Melo taking off balance long 2s both early and late in the clock.

    111. stratomatic

      CPR 2017 has Malik Monk rated the highest for his NBA potential in this entire draft. Second is Tatum followed by Fultz and Ball. Kevin Durant and CP3 are their 2 highest draftees in the last 6 years.

      http://www.basketballanalyticsbook.com/2017/04/05/cpr-2017/

      I have mixed feelings about Monk.

      On the one hand, I think he’s an undersized SG that does very little other than score. That means he has a VERY high bust potential if he can’t guard SGs.

      On the other hand, if the Knicks move on from Melo and Rose they are going to need more scoring to help out KP and Monk might come in handy as a serious scoring option.

    112. Reub On Our Way To Greatness

      Monk and Baker probably complement each other but we need a defensive boost on our team plus additional toughness so I would pass. I remember that Calipari sat Monk down at critical parts of the NCAA playoffs too which makes me wonder about him.

    113. Hugo Busto

      Can we stop quoting Dbpm. For fucks sack Kawhi is ranked 80th in that stat this year. David Lee is ranked 34th lol.

      Sindarius Thornwell would be a great pick in the 2nd round.

    114. lavor postell

      Monk’s upside is pretty similar to Beal’s imo. If you’re into a 2 guard like that he might be your guy, but like Beal he’s gonna need time to develop his handle to improve his ability to create his own offense and he’s an anemic rebounder, which is kind of a rough fit unless KP gets back to at least the level he was in his rookie season.

      I know we really need a guard, but if Isaac is on the board and Smith and Fox are off when we draft that’s who I’m taking. Then I’m trying to figure out a way to finage a late first with an eye on selecting Jawun Evans out of Oklahoma State.

    115. djphan

      steve shea’s models aren’t all that great… it’s lagged just about every other draft model out there… it basically takes an already small sample of games and throws out a whole bunch of them so i don’t think the methodology is all that sound..

    116. DavidCorperial

      Hey guys, I don’t know if you saw, but ESPN has an article on whom should get all the awards and the accolades and they have Willie making the All-Rookie 1st team, so that is a good sign, he wasn’t in the talks for Rookie of the Year, but they still feel he was a top 5 rookie this year as it is non-positional.

    117. stratomatic

      Can we stop quoting Dbpm. For fucks sack Kawhi is ranked 80th in that stat this year. David Lee is ranked 34th lol.

      Most people think of defense in terms of how you defend man to man. DBPM does not measure that well. Neither do any other stats I am aware of. However, there are some stats that are part of defense that are measured well (steals, blocks, defensive rebounds) and it’s also possible to measure offense fairly well. If you can measure a players overall contribution fairly well and you can measure his contribution on offense fairly well, the difference between the two is a window into his defensive contribution. That’s how DBPM works.

      For the record, IMO Lee is a better “overall” defender now than he used to be.

    118. Grocer

      @ lavor

      A tough spot for sure, which is why I feel hesitant. Seems like he didn’t really have a positive impact in any aspect though. Props I guess for switching up the offensive scheme here and there as we continued to fail, but it never felt like we had a defensive scheme in place for Melo and Rose to screw up. More just a ‘go out there and try harder.’ But again, hard to gauge. Player drama kept the focus off of him this year. Next year will be interesting.

    119. KnickfaninNJ

      I’ve said this before, and I know none of you considered it seriously, but we should consider Zhao Jiwei of the Chinese Basketball association for one of our second round picks. He’s a 21 year old point guard first eligible for the draft this year. Over 47 games this season he shot 0.401 from three, 0.829 from the foul line, had 4.3 assists, 1.6 steals, 1.6 turnovers and 9.6 points per game. In advanced stats, his Asst to TO ration is 2.69. his eFG% was 0.537, his TS% was 0.572, he had 19.75 asst%, a 14.8% usage, and a PER of 13.19. Note that the Chinese three point distance is the same as the NBA’s. I watched him in the Olympics, and his eye test against the U.S. was good.

    120. bockadoo

      I don’t understand why our odds are so much higher to get the 7th pick than the 6th as stated in comment 26?

    121. KnickfaninNJ

      Bockadoo,

      It seems like thats probably due to the cumulative that someone jumps above us in the draft. Individually, every team has a small chance of jumping up, but altogether its likely someone will.

    122. Early Bird

      we should consider Zhao Jiwei of the Chinese Basketball association for one of our second round picks.

      Not saying we shouldn’t, but what use is citing stats from the league dominated by a 37 yo Stephon Marbury, Yi Jianlian, and Jimmer Fredette?

    123. thenoblefacehumper

      That’s definitely what it should be next year. We shall see if that’s what it is.

      This offseason represents an opportunity we haven’t had before because even if Phil wants to be stupid, and my guess is he does because he’s stupid, I don’t see many ways he could go about it. Assuming Holiday, Hill, and all the free-agent-in-name-only superstar guys re-sign with their teams, to whom exactly could he give big money?

      We might do what we should’ve been doing for a while now just because of the lack of other options.

    124. Philmelo

      BTW, remember what I said about the perception that NYC sports fans lack patience for a full rebuild? Here is a major reason stated by Charlie Rosen aka Phil Jackson’s mouthpiece for why he had to provide Melo with a NTC to resign with us.

      But there’s another reason why Jackson was forced to lure Melo back to New York: Knicks fans in the Big Apple are averse to any suggestion that their beloved team might be undertaking a rebuilding process. However, their reluctance to accept such a program can be entirely mitigated if a superstar player can be the focus of whatever enthusiasm they can muster.

    125. thenoblefacehumper

      Charley Rosen covering Phil’s ass for a really dumb decision he made isn’t proof that Knicks fans would never tolerate a rebuild

    126. Philmelo

      Charley Rosen covering Phil’s ass for a really dumb decision he made isn’t proof that Knicks fans would never tolerate a rebuild

      Its proof that the perception influences this organization’s decision-making. And who can blame them after reading the tweets dogging our youngsters?

    127. DRed

      We’ve finished over .500 three times in the last 16 years. I think its indisputable that Knicks fans will tolerate losing. I blame the fans who say Knicks fans won’t accept a rebuild for our front office ineptitude nnd terrible owner

    128. Will the Thrill

      No fan base ever wants their team to be rebuilding, they want their team to be good right now. Knicks fans are no different than any other group of NBA fans. If the 76ers lineup started for the Knicks this year, they would’ve sold about as many tickets (every game sold out). Do you really think the average 76er fan would’ve been pissed about the acquisition of Derrick Rose (former MVP) and Melo (scoring CHAMP) before the season started?

      Phil made a stupid decision to re-sign Anthony to a terrible contract because he thought it would benefit the team. If he only did it to appease the fans, that shows just how weak he really is. The only play he has is telling everyone Dolan would’ve fired him if he didn’t keep Melo at all costs, and I actually believe Dolan when he says he handed over the reigns to Phil. It is Phil’s job to make these decisions, and he simply fucked this one up (among many others), there is nothing to really argue about.

    129. Will the Thrill

      We’ve finished over .500 three times in the last 16 years. I think its indisputable that Knicks fans will tolerate losing.

      Exactly. We lose all the time with players who have no upside and there is still a slew of celebrities sitting courtside to watch them all. From what I can see, the fans are even more enthusiastic about watching the young guys succeed. The Knicks are in the center of the biggest city in America with a young international star with star potential; they’re going to sell tickets/merchandise.

    130. Philmelo

      We’ve finished over .500 three times in the last 16 years. I think its indisputable that Knicks fans will tolerate losing.

      The issue isn’t tolerating a losing season. Read what Charlie Rosen said again: they will tolerate losing if they can watch a superstar while doing it. If you doubt it consider how many losing seasons Melo has played on this team and how many fans still want to see him come back.

    131. thenoblefacehumper

      The issue isn’t tolerating a losing season. Read what Charlie Rosen said again: they will tolerate losing if they can watch a superstar while doing it. If you doubt it consider how many losing seasons Melo has played on this team and how many fans still want to see him come back.

      Here’s a random game at MSG against Milwaukee during our 17 win season. The starters were Langston Galloway, Tim Hardaway Jr., Lance Thomas, Quincy Acy, and Cole Aldrich. 19,812 people were there.

    132. Will the Thrill

      they will tolerate losing if they can watch a superstar while doing it.

      What do you think is considered not tolerating losing? Are they going to boo? Are they not going to go to the games? What can they possibly do and what makes them so different than any other fan base?

    133. Philmelo

      What do you think is considered not tolerating losing? Are they going to boo? Are they not going to go to the games? What can they possibly do and what makes them so different than any other fan base?

      How about not being 5th in attendance for starters.

    134. Will the Thrill

      How about not being 5th in attendance for starters.

      Looking at that list I see more of a direct correlation of the size/culture of the city and attendance #’s than I do with attendance #’s and the number of “superstars”. The Lakers, Heat, Jazz, Kings, Bulls, Mavs are all near the top while the Rockets, Grizzlies, Pacers, and Hawks are near the bottom.

    135. Will the Thrill

      The Knicks sold out 99.8% of their games this year – on average selling 38 less tickets than their capacity (they sold out every game this year until the season turned past the point of absolute shit).

      During the 17 win year, the Knicks MSG sellout streak was broken at 201 games including playoff, regular season, and preseason games. I doubt they will have problems with this.

    136. JK47

      For those who say “you can’t rebuild in NYC” I refer you to the Mets. For many years under many different regimes they did the “boom and bust” cycle, with Steve Phillips and Omar Minaya bringing the team pretty solid “booms” before the “busts” kicked in. The “bust” was particularly brutal at the end of the Minaya regime, as it came with the financial troubles of the Wilpons.

      So they hired Sandy Alderson and they rebuilt. They really had no other choice. And the result is a really fun and competitive team that features lots of players that came up through the Mets farm system, many of whom are still on their rookie contracts. It’s like everything I ever hoped and dreamed of as a Mets fan. Alderson has made some mistakes– he’s not a perfect GM. But he gets it. He understands the win curve and all of that.

      If the baseball equivalent of Phil Jackson was hired after Minaya was fired, the first thing he would have done would have been to give a big extension to R.A. Dickey rather than trade him for Noah Syndergaard.

    137. Accidentank 2017

      Blaming the fans for the organizational disfunction is sorry. I remember when the fans booed the owner after the Monta Ellis trade. The whole Oracle Arena. Booing ownership. But Knicks fans who scream KUUUZZZ and cheer every time Ron Baker doesn’t fall on his face and started Linsanity are too impatient to sit through a rebuild despite the fact that we’ve been losing since Cablevision bought MSG. Right.

    138. JK47

      Robles fucking guts it out and throws two scoreless innings with absolutely nothing left in the tank.

      Love that team. Sick win.

    139. JK47

      Smoker looked great in tonight’s game and he has racked up some nice strikeout numbers in the minors. I don’t know about closer material but he definitely has the raw stuff to help the Mets’ bullpen this season. He misses lots of bats.

    140. KnickfaninNJ

      Not saying we shouldn’t, but what use is citing stats from the league dominated by a 37 yo Stephon Marbury, Yi Jianlian, and Jimmer Fredette?

      This is a good question. Its why I said ‘consider’ drafting him, not ‘do’ draft him. Its hard to say how good the league is. Marbury and Yi would also dominate D-league and Jimmer had great stats in D-league. So maybe the CBA is close to D-league in quality. If there was a 21 year old draft eligible D-league player with those stats would you think about drafting him? Also, remember he’s played on China’s international team against the US and held his own.

      Now I did see one CBA game where he was not impressive, so I’m not totally sold on him. I’m just saying think about him seriously.

    141. er

      lol I don’t know why you guys are arguing with Ras over this point. It’s a foolish premise. The Knicks sold out during Isaiah constantly.

    142. Philmelo

      Wow, you guys managed to argue against nobody here. Bringing up the Isaiah Thomas years exactly confirms my point, since the entire MO of his tenure as Knicks GM was to avoid a rebuild and retool around a star basketball player in Stephon Marbury. The fact that the fans continue to reward our 17 year policy of attracting overpaid “star” players is exactly what leads to organizational decisions like giving Melo whatever he wants just to attract a paying crowd of morons who want to see hero ball every game.

    143. Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada

      I think you’re reversing the order of explanation and that bad management is responsible for the mentality that “you can’t rebuild in NY” rather than the other way around

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