Statistical Analysis. Humor. Knicks.

Monday, August 21, 2017

Knicks Morning News (2017.03.17)

  • [SNY Knicks] Nets beat up on Knicks again
    (Thursday, March 16, 2017 10:15:00 PM)

    Brook Lopez scored a game-high 24 points and Rondae Hollis-Jefferson added 20 points and 10 rebounds as the Nets defeated the Knicks for the second time in five days, 121-110, Thursday night at Madison Square Garden.

  • [SNY Knicks] Stefan Bondy joins DNL to discuss Knicks
    (Thursday, March 16, 2017 6:29:36 PM)

  • [SNY Knicks] Porzingis won’t play Thursday against Nets
    (Thursday, March 16, 2017 6:00:00 PM)

    Knicks F Kristaps Porzingis will miss the Knicks’ game against the Nets on Thursday night with a left thigh contusion.

  • [SNY Knicks] Tonight’s Game: Nets at Knicks
    (Thursday, March 16, 2017 5:10:00 PM)

    The Knicks host the Nets at Madison Square Garden tonight at 7:30 p.m. ET.

  • [SNY Knicks] Report: Jackson will not fire Hornacek
    (Thursday, March 16, 2017 9:10:32 AM)

    Despite all of the issues the Knicks have dealt with this season, along with the team’s brutal record, Phil Jackson will not fire Jeff Hornacek.

  • [SNY Knicks] TheKnicksBlog Podcast: The Dog Days
    (Thursday, March 16, 2017 2:50:18 PM)

    Anthony Donahue and Moke Hamilton are officially in the dog days of the season as the guys discuss what Knicks fans can look forward to for the rest of the year.

  • [NYTimes] Nets 121, Knicks 110: Knicks Continue Tailspin by Falling to Nets for Second Time in Five Days
    (Friday, March 17, 2017 4:00:06 AM)

    Jeremy Lin had 15 points to torment his former team as the Knicks fell further down the standings.

  • [NYTimes] Ben Jobe, Southern University Basketball Coach, Dies at 84
    (Thursday, March 16, 2017 8:15:19 PM)

    Jobe transformed Southern into a scoring powerhouse during his 12 seasons as head coach and led the team to the N.C.A.A. tournament four times.

  • [NY Newsday] Nets use dominant third quarter to beat Knicks again
    (Friday, March 17, 2017 12:55:48 AM)

    The question had to be asked of Jeremy Lin, considering he was back at the home of “Linsanity” on Thursday night at Madison Square Garden and had just led a third-quarter comeback that gave the Nets back-to-back wins over the Knicks, his former team, in the space of five days.

  • [NY Newsday] Knicks clinch fourth straight losing season with loss to Nets
    (Friday, March 17, 2017 12:42:26 AM)

    The Knicks put the exclamation point on Jeff Hornacek’s concession speech from Tuesday and clinched a losing record for the fourth straight year Thursday night.

  • [NY Newsday] Knicks Insider podcast: What’s Jeff Hornacek’s future with the team?
    (Thursday, March 16, 2017 12:29:00 PM)

    Jeff Hornacek recently said that the Knicks are all but out of the playoff race. So what’s to make of his future with the team?

  • [ESPN] Friday’s Knicks News: Fourth straight losing season locked in
    (Friday, March 17, 2017 4:58:30 AM)

    Friday’s Knicks News: Fourth straight losing season locked in

  • [ESPN] Worst part about loss to Nets? Knicks aren’t even tanking
    (Friday, March 17, 2017 2:15:35 AM)

    Worst part about loss to Nets? Knicks aren’t even tanking

  • [ESPN] NBA Rumor Central: Why Knicks likely won’t be an option for Jeff Teague
    (Thursday, March 16, 2017 11:34:14 AM)

    NBA Rumor Central: Why Knicks likely won’t be an option for Jeff Teague

  • [NYPost] Phil Jackson should have done it his way from the beginning
    (Friday, March 17, 2017 12:22:59 AM)

    By now, there is so much triangle fatigue in New York, at Madison Square Garden, wherever Knicks fans congregate to talk about another awful season. The triangle offense has become something of an unindicted co-conspirator to all that befalls and befuddles the Knicks now. That’s silly, sure. It’s unfair. But facts are facts, and truth…

  • [NYPost] What Kristaps Porzingis wants for rest of this lost Knicks season
    (Thursday, March 16, 2017 11:08:13 PM)

    Kristaps Porzingis knows if he doesn’t finish this season strong, he won’t be able to sleep this summer. With the playoffs all but out of reach, that’s what motivates the 7-foot-3 Latvian across the final month. Porzingis missed his 11th game this season Thursday against the Nets with his third different injury — a bruised…

  • [NYPost] Angry Kyle O’Quinn takes shot at Nets after Knicks’ humiliation
    (Thursday, March 16, 2017 10:24:11 PM)

    The Nets beat the Knicks not once, but twice this week. And rather than humility, the reaction coming from some corners of the Knicks locker room was pure salt. According to forward Kyle O’Quinn, Brooklyn’s lightly regarded roster didn’t even belong on the court at the Garden with the Knicks, whom you may recall Derrick…

  • [NYPost] James Dolan’s disses of John Andariese an MSG disgrace
    (Thursday, March 16, 2017 10:11:20 PM)

    Years ago, John Andariese and I entered The Garden, where that night he called a Knicks game with Marv Albert. When we stepped inside the media entrance on 33rd Street, the security guard at the door gave Andariese a big, warm hello. Andariese returned it — calling the man by his first name. That’s the…

  • [NYPost] Former Knicks champion David Stallworth dies at 75
    (Thursday, March 16, 2017 7:48:59 PM)

    Ex-Knicks reserve forward David Stallworth took two years off after his heart attack in 1967 at age 25 and came back to the Knicks. It’s a good thing Stallworth did because the Knicks may never have won their first NBA title during the 1969-70 season. Stallworth, who passed away Thursday at the age of 75,…

  • [NYPost] Knicks look like tanking team after another ugly loss to Nets
    (Thursday, March 16, 2017 6:30:35 PM)

    You can’t stop the Brooklyn Nets. You can only try to contain them. The Knicks’ tanking moved into high gear Thursday when they dropped their second game in five days to the NBA’s worst team, getting overrun by their neighbors from Kings County 121-110 at the Garden in blowing an 11-point first-half lead. It officially…

  • [NYDN] Former Knick Dave Stallworth dead at 75
    (Thursday, March 16, 2017 9:51:45 PM)

    Stallworth was part of two key pieces of Knicks history.

  • [NYDN] Porzingis, Hornacek still won’t tank for Knicks draft pick
    (Thursday, March 16, 2017 9:27:02 PM)

    Porzingis didn’t play Thursday, but don’t take it as a sign that the Knicks have entered full tank mode yet.

  • [NYDN] Knicks fall to Nets, clinch fourth straight losing season
    (Thursday, March 16, 2017 9:26:14 PM)

    At this point, we’re not asking which is the best team in New York.

  • [NYDN] Knicks’ Kristaps Porzingis doesn’t know what a kazoo is
    (Thursday, March 16, 2017 6:11:39 AM)

    Kristaps Porzingis probably won’t be joining James Dolan’s band anytime soon.

  • 109 comments on “Knicks Morning News (2017.03.17)

    1. Totes McGoats

      In the midst of my frustration with this team’s lack of..I dunno..seemingly everything- I’ve failed to realize something. The problem isn’t Melo or Rose individually. It’s both of them on the same roster in this system. The triangle is meant to have one primary scorer and playmaker, with an ancillary scorer next to him. Now, Melo hasn’t proven himself to be a willing playmaker and Rose hasn’t proven himself to be a willing passer, but the team would have looked much better with one or the other. Probably Rose moreso than Melo.

      That just makes it more frustrating. Ugh

    2. Frank

      Stefan Bondy and Ohm Youngmisuk both with articles today about how the Knicks actually aren’t tanking, they just stink — and they’re right. All the rotations are about the same except for Ron Baker playing more than usual. Starters still playing 30+ min. Of course minutes played are not the same as minutes played with effort.

      So it looks like our slot will be no worse than 9th — even if we somehow tank less effectively than Sac and New Orleans, we will end up with the 8th slot where there is an 80 percent chance we’ll pick 8th or better, about a 19.5% chance we’ll pick 9th (if 1 team behind us jumps into the top 3), and if my math is right, only about a 2.5% chance we will pick 10th or lower (2 teams jumping ahead of us). I think Minnesota, Charlotte, and Dallas are playing too well to end up with a worse record than us, so really it’s Philly, Orlando, us, Sac, and NO all within 3.5 games of the 4 spot.

      Sac’s remaining “should/could win” games –> Lakers, Phoenix, also one game against the Pelicans.

      NO’s remaining “should/could win” games –> Lakers, Dallas, also one game against Sac

      Orlando –> Phoenix, 76ers, 2 games against Nets

      Philly –> Orlando, 2 games against Brooklyn, one game against the Knicks.

      It seems really possible that getting the 4 seed may come down to us losing or winning the last game of the season against Philly.

      We actually have the most “favorable” tanking schedule of the 5 teams.

    3. ptmilo

      The problem isn’t Melo or Rose individually. It’s both of them on the same roster in this system.but the team would have looked much better with one or the other.

      The numbers don’t bear this out. In 873 minutes with only one out of Melo/Rose on the court this year, the Knicks’ net rating is -5.7, which is even worse than their overall net rating of -3.7.

    4. kevin5318

      Isaac had a great game yesterday. 17 pts on 8 shots with 10 rebs, 5 asst, 3 blks, 2 stls and 2 TO’s. We have to draft him or Fox if we miss out on the top 2 guys.

    5. thenoblefacehumper

      Bringing this over here:

      Yeah, we really might have to go full The Process if we actually want fix this mess. If we’re being totally honest, the only player we have legitimately good reason to believe is a long-term piece is…Hernangomez. I love Porzingis, and subjectively I think the tools are all there, but we’re only lying to ourselves if we say he’s a lock to be a productive player for a long time.

      Even if he is, two productive players still won’t cut it (not to mention the potential problems they have as a pairing specifically). I mean, New Orleans hasn’t been able to escape purgatory with Anthony freakin’ Davis! This draft sure will be important. Tank on.

      Basically, the Knicks are one of the most asset starved teams in the league. They are fucking awful, and two of their more productive players might not be long for the team (O’Quinn and Lee). I don’t see any way out of this disaster besides a multi year commitment to getting high draft picks.

    6. Accidentank 2017

      The problem with this Knicks team is that all four of the team’s big guns have not been productive. Noah was a great piece to have while he was healthy, but that didn’t last 1,000 minutes. Melo and Rose are bad at playing productive minutes, and KP feels like a victim to both of them on both ends of the court (no easy buckets created for him and neither guy defends so his foul rate goes up). The rest of the team was put together decently. I’d like to see all of Lee, Hernangomez, LT, Randle, Holiday, and O’Quinn back on the roster next season. If we let Rose walk, land Rubio, and trade Melo for an actually decent haul of assets, we’ll be on our way to success.

    7. Accidentank 2017

      The Knicks don’t need to commit to any process like what’s going on in Philly. What the Knicks need to do is trade Melo, let Rose walk, and fill their slots with average NBA players who will move the ball and defer to KP. Call me what you want but I truly believe a 2018 roster of Rubio, Lee, Tucker/Ingles, KP, Hernangomez, Randle, 2017 1st round pick, O’Quinn, LT, and Noah can win 45+ depending on health. That team would compete on both ends and be a product we could all be proud of.

    8. Ambrosenyk

      I’d like to see all of Lee, Hernangomez, LT, Randle, Holiday, and O’Quinn back on the roster next season. If we let Rose walk, land Rubio, and trade Melo for an actually decent haul of assets, we’ll be on our way to success.

      Ron Baker for Ricky Rubio. Who says no?

    9. GoldClub

      Much more fun than discussing the awful reality that we are in…let’s say we somehow luck into the #2 pick. Do you trade #2 for Kings #7 and #8 (and #35). As much as I’d like Ball I’d be pretty intrigued by a combo of Fox/Frank+Isaac or even Fox/Frank+Monk.

    10. thenoblefacehumper

      The Knicks don’t need to commit to any process like what’s going on in Philly. What the Knicks need to do is trade Melo, let Rose walk, and fill their slots with average NBA players who will move the ball and defer to KP. Call me what you want but I truly believe a 2018 roster of Rubio, Lee, Tucker/Ingles, KP, Hernangomez, Randle, 2017 1st round pick, O’Quinn, LT, and Noah can win 45+ depending on health. That team would compete on both ends and be a product we could all be proud of.

      How are we getting Rubio in this scenario? Apparently we’re not trading Lee, O’Quinn, or even Noah so that’s just not going to happen. Without him, the team you just listed is the same bad-to-awful garbage we’ve been dealing with for years now. There is simply no quick fix here. I just don’t see any solution other than something resembling The Process if we want to be relevant anytime soon.

    11. Reub On Our Way To Greatness

      Rubio and Tucker. I called for that a while ago and I’m still all for it. Just add our draft pick to it and lose Melo and we’ll be on our way to greatness.

      It could be that this recent tanking joy might be a moot exercise because I can see us selecting Ntilikina with the 3rd pick just as easily as with the 9th pick.

    12. stratomatic

      @7 and @8 Accidentank 2017

      I agree with everything you are saying other than Rubio. I love Rubio and desperately wanted him on the team at the trade deadline, but I suspect that ship has already sailed. It made sense to give up Rose because he isn’t any good we aren’t going to resign him anyway. It’s gets a lot trickier to trade for him now because his stock has been going up and we’d have to give up real assets. We wouldn’t gain nearly as much. Also, now that we are committing to the triangle again, I don’t think Rubio is as good as fit as he would have been in a more uptempo game where he was penetrating and creating. In general though I agree with you. This is not an impossible situation.

      1. Get a productive PG in free agency at a fair price
      2. Trade Melo for a productive player and expiring contracts and/or picks
      3. Draft a player that will be productive in 2018 and beyond, if not next year
      4. Get some development out of KP, WH, etc..

      The key is “productive”.

      They have to measure the productivity of players correctly. That’s where the problem may be.

    13. Frank

      Basically, the Knicks are one of the most asset starved teams in the league. They are fucking awful, and two of their more productive players might not be long for the team (O’Quinn and Lee). I don’t see any way out of this disaster besides a multi year commitment to getting high draft picks.

      I don’t know that we’re so asset starved.
      We have two guys on rookie contracts that would’ve been top 10 picks in a redraft of a very good 2015 draft class (KP probably top 4 with some combination of KAT, Myles Turner, and Devin Booker, and Willy probably top 10).

      We have probably about $25MM in cap space this summer.

      We have all our 1st round picks going forward, and basically a normal amount of 2nd round picks going forward (even if they’re not all our own).

      We have what should be a top 8 pick this summer in a very strong draft class.

      We have only one crippling contract going forward (Noah).

      We have a number of legit rotation players on reasonable contracts that are probably easily tradeable (Courtney Lee, Lance Thomas, O’Quinn) for real assets.

      Are we the Sixers, Celtics, or Nuggets in terms of assets? No, but I think we’re probably somewhere in the 18-22 range, or even better depending on how you feel about KP. I’d certainly rather be us than the Magic, Kings, Nets, Bulls, Mavericks, Hornets, Miami (in terms of future assets, not current production).

      What we don’t have is any direction at all as a franchise, which is not an “asset” per se, but may be more important than any individual asset.

    14. MSA

      We have only one crippling contract going forward (Noah).

      You may also include Melo on that list.

      Any true rebuild must start with shipping him and I suspect another Melodrama is just around the corner.

      Can you imagine drafting Isaac, Jackson or Tatum just so they can sit on the bench behind Melo’s 38 minutes per game?

    15. Frank

      btw, I know some here are/were very down on the Lance Thomas signing, but he has been pretty good lately since coming back from injury. 12 games, per-36 averages of 12 points / 7 rebounds, 58 TS on 13.6 usage, shooting 48.6% from 3 and 84% from the line. It may just be that his 3 point shooting is legitimate.

    16. Frank

      You may also include Melo on that list.

      Any true rebuild must start with shipping him and I suspect another Melodrama is just around the corner.

      I would love to send Melo packing to the Clippers for just about anything. I wouldn’t even mind taking Crawford’s contract as long as it came with the 2021 1st rounder.

      As much as I think Phil Jackson is mostly to blame for this dumpster fire, I think you’re right – any reboot of the Knicks franchise has to be without Melo (and certainly without Rose).

    17. KnickfaninNJ

      I have been thinking about Melo trades. Its really hard to find ones that actually work salary-wise and might be something both teams would do. And this is looking at any team, not just ones he might approve a trade to. I think we are stuck with him. Then I think we just let Rose go and build through the draft. Its going to take a while

    18. DRed

      Lance is probably a bit overpaid, and there was no point to signing him for 4 years, but he’s not that big of a problem. He’s an acceptable backup. The problem with the Lance contract was more of how it fit into the big picture of Phil not understanding where we were as a team.

    19. DRed

      The problem with this Knicks team is that all four of the team’s big guns have not been productive

      People here seem to like BPM as far as box score metrics go-there are currently two Knicks with a positive BPM (O’Quinn & Noah).

    20. KnickfaninNJ

      Best trade I could find is Carmelo to Miami for Ellington and Johnson plus picks, two players I know very little about. Note that it doesn’t work in the trade machine this season, but should work over the summer because some Miami contracts will expire. Melo, Dragic and Whitesides is an appealing threesome, and Miami’s a nice place to live. Maybe Melo would do it.

    21. ClashFan

      @16
      If LT could just stay healthy, he might be of some value to another team.

      One goal for what’s left of the season is for him to stay healthy and productive like he has been. Then, he might have some value around the league. In the offseason, Melo, OQ, Lee, and LT all might be of interest to others.

      There’s even a slim chance that they could get something for Rose in a sign and trade, but they’d have to find a team that wants him without enough cap space, and Rose would have to want to go there. But, he’ll probably just be a case of addition by subtraction.

    22. Z-man

      I think 3-10 is a reasonable projection for the next 13 games, putting us at 30-52. That should put us in the 6-9 range.

    23. ClashFan

      Melo to the Clippers just makes too much sense for both teams, if he’ll waive the NTC. Melo’s destination might depend on which teams disappoint in the playoffs and get desperate in the offseason. Cleveland and Boston still seem to me very unlikely, so we’re back with the Clips.

      Where else would he go? Chicago? Miami?

    24. stratomatic

      People here seem to like BPM as far as box score metrics go-there are currently two Knicks with a positive BPM (O’Quinn & Noah).

      I like BPM a bit. IMO, it has one or two weaknesses.

      1. It incorporates minutes played into the calculation on the assumption that players with very good per 36 metrics that are playing way less than that must have some flaws that the coaching staff is aware of that advanced stats are not capturing. That’s probably correct in a very general sense, but in some cases players that aren’t getting minutes could reproduce those per minute numbers playing longer and perhaps the coach is just wrong. Jokic being on the bench early in the season is one example.

      2. If I understand it correctly, it gives weight to scoring usage. It gives extra credit for higher than average usage and vice versa while also considering efficiency. Sounds OK. However, my view is that if the player is a below average efficiency scorer, you should be PUNISHING him for high usage. IMO, higher usage is only a plus when it comes at average or higher efficiency (unless of course all the other players suck even worse). If you can’t maintain a higher rate of efficiency than average, the smart thing to do is lower your usage. You may want to downgrade a below average usage guy a bit when he has high efficiency (like Tyson Chandler), but you don’t want to upgrade a low efficiency guy because he has high usage.

      I think it tried to correct the problem Wins Produced has at the extremes of usage, but it doesn’t quite get it right in some spots.

    25. Frank

      I think 3-10 is a reasonable projection for the next 13 games, putting us at 30-52. That should put us in the 6-9 range.

      Considering we just lost 2 games to the Nets (who had won a grand total of 4 games TOTAL since Christmas (4-28 record) until playing us this week), I think 3 wins in our last 13 seems pretty “optimistic”. I think 2-11 or 1-12 seems more likely.

    26. Z-man

      The key to our seeding is how the Kings and Pels finish. I think we are not going to catch any of the teams with more wins than us (Hornets, T-Wolves, Mavs) and are definitely not sinking below Nets, Lakers, Suns, Magic or Sixers. So #6 looks like the most attainable favorable outcome, and #7 is probably the likeliest outcome (assumes that either the Pels [more likely] or Kings wind up with more wins than us.

    27. stratomatic

      It’s going to be hard to trade Melo. He’s not a good player and he makes a lot of money. It was different before. He wasn’t a very good player back then either, but he’s worse now and people thought he was very good. I think the perception around the league (maybe not with players but with managements) is more in line with reality than before.

    28. Frank

      Z-man – remember that the Magic and Sixers have a much easier schedule than us – they both play the Nets twice and they play each other once. It’s probably <50% chance but maybe it's a 30% chance we could get the #4 or #5 slot.

    29. Z-man

      Frank, on paper I’d agree, but in reality even tanking teams (and we’re not officially tanking yet) pull games out of their rear end for no good reason. You would have thought that the Indiana game was a sure loss. I think that our young guys, or Melo or Rose, will have 3 or so games like they did vs. Indiana, where they get hot and the opponent is ice cold.

    30. ClashFan

      @28
      Agreed, and that’s why we come back to the Clips. Phil will probably need to take Crawford and Rivers back to get the 2021 first round pick. The longshot is the hope that Cleveland craps out in the playoffs and Lebron insists that they get him. But, I think he’s smarter than that.

    31. GoldClub

      Biggest risk to the six spot is the kings who have 5 of 14 winnable games left (@NO, @MIN, vsDAL, @LAL, vsPHO) but who’s next seven games are highly likely L’s (@OKC, @SAS, vsMIL, @GSW, @LAC, vsMEM, vsUTA). Not great if they lose the next seven and then roll over for their winnable games…

      We have 5 of 13 winnable games (@POR, vsDET, vsMIA, @MIA, and vsPHI). Certainly helps that we have a nice stretch coming up @LAC, @UTA, [@POR], @SAS…Also we have the Melo wildcard who will probably turn up the heat and start trying on defense and win one or two just to screw us as the tank narrative heats up and pisses him off.

    32. Z-man

      The Magic and Sixers are probably just as bad as the Nets right now, especially now that Lin is back. The Nets have no reason to lose, so they will play to win every game. We saw that last night and in the previous game. We have a 3 game lead on both and must own a tiebreaker over the Magic, right? We have the tougher schedule, but Melo can go off in a tight game like he did in the 4th Q vs. Indiana. So yeah, there’s an outside chance (I think less than 30%, but whatever) to catch Philly or Orlando, but there is just as much of a chance that we catch Sac, or Dallas, or Minny, or NO. If I had to bet, I’d probably bet #7 but would be tempted by #6.

    33. JK47

      Phil is running his own version of “The Process.” His approach is to try to put together a team that’s a playoff contender, then collect the high draft pick when it staggers to a 31-win season.

      It’s “The Process,” but with accidental instead of intentional tanking. He has a nice head start on next season’s tank, with what, like $60M tied up in the useless quartet of Melo, Noah, Lee and Thomas. Add a couple more bad free agent contracts and it should be another exciting season constantly refreshing the tankathon.com page.

    34. Z-man

      That said, an Orlando win tonight would help! And I guess you have to root for Philly, although we’re only 2 games clear of Dallas.

    35. Philmelo

      Man, you have to hope that the Clippers are as desperate to shake things up as we are to trade Melo. The second half to their season hasn’t been a smooth ride by any longshot and they legitimately look to be in the middle of the Western Conference pack.

    36. Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada

      Yeah you see BPMs usage and MP skew when you see that by its metrics that Westbrook is having the greatest season of all time by a fair margin (14.8 vs Lebrons 13.0 in 08-09)

      I think that’s pretty obviously untrue but if you take the extremely high usage guys with a grain of salt as well as the DBPM numbers (which are better than DWS etc. but have the same issues that all box score defensive stats have issues with) it’s still the best box score metric in my eyes.

      Still trying to figure out where I can find an SPM/APM/RAPM rankings table for this year is but I don’t think any is publicly available

    37. Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada

      @39

      Yeah but it’s a black box so I’d prefer to just look at the RAPM until espn deigns to let its methodology become public knowledge

      That being said I lend it a moderate amount of credence

    38. Jack Bauer

      Dave Stallworth, RIP. A really good player, brings back memories of when the Knicks were actually very good. It’s been a looong time, we’re due….

    39. MamaThereGoesThatMan

      Last I checked, the Clippers were 5th seed in the west. It’d be bad if they were eliminated from the playoffs too quickly because then Doc might realize that they’re more than a Melo away, which they almost certainly are.

    40. Philmelo

      Last I checked, the Clippers were 5th seed in the west. It’d be bad if they were eliminated from the playoffs too quickly because then Doc might realize that they’re more than a Melo away, which they almost certainly are.

      They’re not tearing that team down. Doc has already committed to resigning Blake, CP3 and maybe even Reddick in the offseason. Their only way forward is to replace guys like Austin and Crawford for a Melo/Lee combination.

    41. TheOakmanCometh

      Zach Lowe predicted that there would be a shakeup in the Clippers if they don’t make any noise in the playoffs. Most likely that means Blake not returning. I’m not sure if that’s good or bad for a Melo trade.

    42. Totes McGoats

      The numbers don’t bear this out. In 873 minutes with only one out of Melo/Rose on the court this year, the Knicks’ net rating is -5.7, which is even worse than their overall net rating of -3.7.

      Absolutely the numbers say otherwise. I just think that this is one of those situations where the dreaded eye test fits better. Being a PG by trade should allow Rose to be more of a playmaker rather than an ancillary scorer. His game is more suited for that than Melo’s. I wouldn’t expect the team to improve by leaps and bounds, but theoretically It would clear some muck on offense. Without both of them, the twam would look better playing through KP & Willy as well. But having Melo AND Rose is quite the oxymoron

    43. Owen

      I still can’t believe the Nerlens Noel is playing for the Mavericks.

      Got absolutely nothing to say about the Knicks. I may check out till the draft lottery. So dispiriting.

    44. Philmelo

      Mock Draft so far:

      1. Fultz – Boston
      2. Ball – LAL
      3. Jackson – Phoenix
      4. Monk*/Markannen – Philadelphia
      5. Fox/Tatum – Orlando
      6. Fox/Smith – Sacramento
      7. Ntilikina/Isaac – NYK

      *I think Monk is going to have a huge tournament, BTW.

    45. Philmelo

      monk and sacramento is viveke’s wet dream…

      Great. Then I don’t have to sweat Sacramento picking in front of us.

    46. Hugo Busto

      What happens in the offseason?
      Do we believe Melo will be traded?
      Predictions on where Rose signs?

      im just so sick of hearing about the triangle. nauseous

    47. geo

      Stefan Bondy and Ohm Youngmisuk both with articles today about how the Knicks actually aren’t tanking, they just stink — and they’re right. All the rotations are about the same except for Ron Baker playing more than usual. Starters still playing 30+ min. Of course minutes played are not the same as minutes played with effort.

      it was a little odd watching them yesterday…it seemed in the 4th quarter there was a collective vibe from the knick players that they knew that it was best for the team to lose the game

      i think the narrative for melo to move on is stronger than ever…phil and the team has given him every indication that we will not be competing for anything (other than lottery picks) any time soon…

      if he hopes to tie his “brand”/legacy to winning basketball – he really needs to move on…sure, he could say: “look at me – i’m mister loyalty”…but, more and more, that makes zero sense…

      i’d be amazed if rose ends up in a winning situation or makes more than 18 mil next year…wild guesses on his destination: dallas, sacramento, milwaukee or detroit…

    48. thenoblefacehumper

      If we’re able to get anything other than equally bad contracts (some combination of Crawford, Rivers, Wes Johnson, etc.) for Melo I’ll be shocked. This isn’t even an eye test vs analytics thing anymore with Melo, he’s pretty unambiguously bad these days. Phil Jackson probably would agree to that kind of deal because it seems like he really wants to wash his hands of Melo, and the Clippers (presumably) wouldn’t have much to lose.

      Personally I’d try to hold out for something. A second round pick, whatever. There’s no particular urgency here. I guess the best case scenario is a bidding war between the Clippers and Cavs and maybe we wind up with a distant first.

    49. Ambrosenyk

      I agree with the above. I’m surprised that people think the Knicks can get anything of value for Melo – if you scroll up, people here are still holding on to that delusion. Theo was cast off because he felt that Melo did not have the value that some Knickerblogger posters ascribed to him.

      I’m glad atleast some of you are coming around.

    50. kevin5318

      @61 Its funny how you and Theo defend each other’s posts. You must be friends or something :)

    51. Philmelo

      Knicks will acquire picks for Melo. But patience is needed, something many here don’t seem to have much of.

    52. Reub On Our Way To Greatness

      @59 geo, I doubt that Melo would bring us much with his diminishing skills and lack of defense. Add in his high salary and a team would be bordering on malpractice to trade anything for him that is useful.

    53. Brian Cronin

      it was a little odd watching them yesterday…it seemed in the 4th quarter there was a collective vibe from the knick players that they knew that it was best for the team to lose the game

      I wish I got that impression. I think they were just dumb/bad. “Hey, we’re down 11 and they’re 2 minutes left, I guess we shouldn’t shoot any threes, right?”

    54. Brian Cronin

      As for what Melo could bring, I have no idea. We shall see what the Clippers think once the season is over.

    55. geo

      i don’t know reub…at this point it may be more important (a la the jr, shump and chandler dumpings – i forgot what deal got rid of felton, but, i guess you could add him to that list too :-) for phil to simply get him off the team…

      despite the fact that kp hasn’t quite blossomed as much as we’d have all hoped this year – in order for kp and the team to move forward – melo has to go…despite the fact that melo most certainly doesn’t want to go…

      we should be swimming in cap space without melo and rose – even if we do have to sign some point guard at plus 15 mil a year…

      kinda like the browns did with osweiler – it may be time for us to pick up some bad (hopefully short term) contracts to get rid of melo…

    56. thenoblefacehumper

      Theo was cast off because he felt that Melo did not have the value that some Knickerblogger posters ascribed to him.

      I’m glad atleast some of you are coming around.

      Theo was “cast off” because he loves to respond with uniquely obnoxious snark to arguments that no one is making while offering absolutely no substantive basketball analysis of his own.

      Knicks will acquire picks for Melo. But patience is needed, something many here don’t seem to have much of.

      I literally just said I’d hold out for a positive asset. If we can’t get one I’d rather waive him, which carries the small chance of someone claiming him, than waste time with Crawford et al.

      kinda like the browns did with osweiler – it may be time for us to pick up some bad (hopefully short term) contracts to get rid of melo…

      I agree that getting rid of him does have value on its own, but like I said if we can’t get a single asset for him I’d prefer to waive him.

    57. geo

      if we can’t get a single asset for him I’d prefer to waive him.

      that would be a very ballsy move…without another team having to pick up his 15% trade bonus kick…very good chance he would get claimed…

      that kinda move would actually revive some of my faith in phil (as long as we don’t get stuck still paying his salary for next year)…

    58. Philmelo

      Ruruland is lurking the shadows. Waiting for the proper moment to strike. He will appear when we say his name three times in a row.

    59. DRed

      “Theo was cast off because he felt that Melo did not have the value that some Knickerblogger posters ascribed to him.”

      I suppose that’s one way of looking at it

    60. JK47

      Theo was “cast off” because he was a belligerent jerk. I mostly agreed with him and still didn’t get along with him.

    61. The Honorable Cock Jowles

      “Theo was cast off because he felt that Melo did not have the value that some Knickerblogger posters ascribed to him.”

      Ah, the sweet potential of euphemism. Here’s mine:

      THCJ was threatened to be cast off for commanding another poster to consume a cleaning product that is potentially harmful when ingested; his tone was impolite, his suggestion largely hostile.

      Language is nothing if not political.

    62. JK47

      When Melo retires I wonder if ruru will find some other mediocre faux-superstar to obsess over, or if he’ll spend the rest of his life talking about how underrated Melo was.

    63. thenoblefacehumper

      Ruru will return after the Knicks max Jrue Holiday to tell us how this will be the first time Melo has ever played with a “true point guard,” and we should expect him to post a career high TS% en route to a 50 win season.

    64. geo

      Theo was “cast off” because he was a belligerent jerk. I mostly agreed with him and still didn’t get along with him.

      c’mon man…just like i show up each night to test my pixels against other players pixels in pvp land – it seems a bunch of you come here to test your words and thoughts against others…

      i’m not sure how you can expect others to “compete” in such an anonymous setting in a straightforward and fair manner…of course there will be trolling involved…of course it’s gonna get a little personal at times…yes, people will say shit just because they know it will irritate others…that’s just part of the joy of public discourse and in some respects – competition…

      heck, it happens even when the discussion is simply centered around the significance of PER, Pythagorean, TS% or APBRmetrics in general…

      i understand i’m a noob and just came aboard this season – but, i’ve been following the forum for many years…it sure seems like many of you take great joy in digging in on one another…

      which – there is absolutely nothing wrong with…and, one of the reasons i’d didn’t really “get” the whole reub backlash yesterday…obviously it was something that has been brewing for awhile – but, after corresponding with each other for so many years – it would seem by now you all would have a very clear understanding of one another…

      sorry for butting in – i’m putting away my fingers and going back to work now…

    65. kevin5318

      Is Tatum considered a good defender? I don’t want him but I wouldn’t put it past Phil to invest in another ISO baller.

    66. geo

      ahhhh, so glad to see you post ras…starting to worry if i was this site’s equivalent of derrick rose with his innate ability to suck the life and joy out of every living creature he comes in contact with…

      almost was ready to invoke my favorite post of all time here on this site – which quite coincidentally – just so happens to have come from you:

      “hey, where the fuck did everyone go?”

    67. Brian Cronin

      And the Pellies are feasting on Houston! I almost think Houston is tanking the game because they don’t want New Orleans to add a #3 pick to their team. :)

      Great night for the tank!

    68. Reub On Our Way To Greatness

      @79 geo, I don’t know how old you are but you’re definitely wise beyond your years.

    69. Philmelo

      @83

      Don’t be paranoid, geo. We’re just probably caught up watching all the March Madness games. We love your posts.

    70. Philmelo

      Holy shit. Ricky Rubio may just have figured it out and we may have been dumb enough not to trade for him.

    71. Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada

      Taytum is a better defender than Melo but not a great defender either

    72. Will the Thrill

      Kentucky’s offensive sets are horrible, but Fox hasn’t really shown me that he is a great playmaker. Most of his assists are from swinging it along the perimeter. He seems like he would feast in a pick and roll offense, though. Hopefully not like DRose.

    73. Bruno Almeida

      Pelicans are 2-0 without Cousins so far and 3-7 when he plays… I’d love to see Zach Lowe explaining this.

      good day for the tank, I’ve not been
      able to post much but Im mildly optimistic about this whole ordeal.

      Orlando might also beat Phoenix and that would be a great ending for the night.

    74. chrisconley

      The way Fox has been playing the last 5 games he’s probably going top 5, so don’t anyone get too excited about him. The way Monk’s been playing the last 5 games the knicks will probably draft him :(

    75. Accidentank 2017

      Dennis Smith Jr. might be the guy we end up taking. He’s actually a ball hawk and led the ACC (the college basketball equivalent to the SEC in college football) in steals this year. When you watch his film, you’d be hard pressed to find a more complete baller offensively at his age (or even at all). His change of pace game is unfair, he has Dame Lillard’s range, can finish with both hands, and he has great court vision. He also had that really impressive game where they went into Duke and won behind his 32 points and 6 assists. Defensively he competes and of course has the potential to be a good defender at the next level with his athleticism.

      If we get into the top 5 (and ahead of Philly specifically because I doubt Orlando and Phoenix go for guards), DS2 wouldn’t be a bad pick at all. I can’t help but compare him to Dwyane Wade when I watch him play the passing lane and just outsmart defenders despite his ability to just Westbrook his way past his man. And even then Dwyane Wade can’t shoot.

    76. Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada

      DSJ is good but needs to get even halfway competent on defense before I think about drafting him. He also can sometimes freeze people out despite having good assist numbers.

      He’s really good at getting steals though.

      I wouldn’t hate the pick i just think it’s more important than ever to have a two way player at the PG position which is why I’m more partial to Fox and maybe even Frank over smith.

    77. Brian Cronin

      I’d take Fox and Ntilikina over Smith, but if Smith is what they get, at least he looks like a real NBA player. Honestly, the fact that the Knicks have gotten this deep into the tank has taken a lot of the pressure off, as the odds are high that they’ll get one of the top 9 guys and really, all of the top 9 guys are good in one way or the other. They all look like legit NBA players. This isn’t like, “Is Marquese Chriss even good?”

    78. Reub On Our Way To Greatness

      Fox’s defense and intensity is so much fun to watch. If he can improve his shooting a little more he’d be a great Knick.

    Comments are closed.