Statistical Analysis. Humor. Knicks.

Tuesday, May 21, 2019

Knicks Morning News (2016.06.28)

  • [New York Times] Adidas Strikes Deal With Wanda to Promote Sport in China (Tue, 28 Jun 2016 09:51:28 GMT)
    German sportswear firm Adidas has signed a deal with the Wanda business empire of China’s richest man Wang Jianlin to sponsor two of Wanda’s endurance events, promote soccer and basketball in the country and open stores in Wanda’s malls.

  • [ESPN.com – New York Knicks] Tuesday's Knicks Links: Derrick Rose trade 'reinvigorated' Carmelo Anthony (Tue, 28 Jun 2016 05:28:29 EST)
    Tuesday's Knicks Links: Derrick Rose trade 'reinvigorated' Carmelo Anthony

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    116 comments on “Knicks Morning News (2016.06.28)

    1. Frank

      I guess it’s time to move on to FA, Friday should be interesting!! I think Gasol is gonna wind up here on something like a $20 mill for 2 year deal.

      I’m having a hard time deciding what would be a good FA outcome this summer given the math for 2017-18 we talked about yesterday. Seems likely we’re aiming for a C/SG combo.

      RE: SG- I like Bazemore a lot but he’ll definitely get something in the 4y 60-72MM range. He’s really had just 1 really good year, and even in that year he played his usual good defense but wasn’t really a knockdown shooter. And he definitely will not be a bargain.

      Courtney Lee would be a really good get. I think his game is probably similar to Bazemore except maybe not as versatile a defender, but much better shooter. He might take a 2 or 3 year deal but my guess is he’ll cost maybe 12-14MM/year — that might be preferable. I mean 3 years 40 MM probably would be considered a bargain even if it takes him to age 33.5.

      Or would it be better to go for an under-the-radar type at 2 guard and hope we’re able to get by with a rotation with Holiday? Other possiblities:
      – Gerald Henderson
      – Gerald Green (surprisingly good numbers playing under Hornacek in PHX!)
      – Lance Stephenson?

      At center – Whiteside would obviously be a great get – THCJ and I and pretty much everyone would be on board with that, I imagine. He’s mobile, so you could probably play both him and KP together defensively, which would basically close off the basket area completely. Doesn’t feel much like a triangle player (2nd worst assist rate in the league!), but then again when you’re dunking or swatting everything in sight, that probably is fine. high PNR with Rose/Whiteside with Melo/KP etc sounds good to me. He’ll start at $22MM , leaving roughly $9MM left. I doubt Lance would take $9MM, but possibly Gerald Green would. Between Green and Holiday that would probably be adequate at the SG.

    2. Frank

      The other possibility is to get a stopgap at center since I think most expect KP to be the starting center within a couple years.

      If not Noah, then perhaps Zaza Pachulia, who’s a very good player – doesn’t shoot 3’s, doesn’t have a great eFG, but he gets fouled like crazy — career FTR >0.5. Passes, can shoot a J, can set great screens, rebound etc. Maybe 2 years $16MM would get it done — would be a 60% raise from last year, and by the end of that contract, KP should be ready to roll.

      In terms of other under the radar SGs–
      James Ennis anyone? Has a rep that he can’t shoot, but he made 24/50 3’s with New Orleans last year with a tidy TS 64.7 on a usage of 20. Career 3P% 37.3 on 153 attempts. Great athlete.

    3. lavor postell

      This is amusing because he’d also be an ex-Bull but E’Twaun Moore is somebody I hope the Knicks target to play the 2. He’s like a bigger, better shooting version of Galloway. I also think he’ll be more affordable than many other 2s in this FA.

      I don’t think Whiteside is all that mobile tbh. He doesn’t come out and show on PNR at all, which was the main reason he kept gettin benched for Udonis Haslem in the Charlotte series in the 4th quarter. Whiteside loves to hang back in the paint, something Lopez had to also do because of his lack of athleticism and something I suspect was an unspoken motivation for moving on from him as Hornacek has mentioned in interviews previously he wants to play more aggressive pressure defense. Maybe they still think it could work with Whiteside but that’s my guess.

      I’m thinking Noah, Moore and somebody like Gerald Henderson would be a decent summer. If only give Noah and Henderson 1+1 type deals but I’d try to lock up Moore long term. Also wouldn’t be surprised to see us go after Leuer or Gerald Green a couple of Phoenix guys that had success with Hornacek.

    4. Z-man

      If somehow we wound up with an opening day starting lineup of KP, Melo, Gasol, Rose and Durant, that would be amazing. Could that team, with Willy H, Gallo, KOQ and assorted minimum guys go to the finals?

      Realistically, Gasol might take a discount (i.e. play at the $ he just opted out of) to play for Phil and w KP in his twilight years. To me, that’s the best value option, he still has something left in the tank, and may actually be better than RoLo for the next two years at half the price.

    5. Frank

      If somehow we wound up with an opening day starting lineup of KP, Melo, Gasol, Rose and Durant, that would be amazing.

      I’m in the “hopeful D-Rose can be his MVP self again” camp, and even I think there is zero chance of this lol.

      Larry Sanders would be interesting. He and Phil could talk their favorite kinds of weed.

    6. Z-man

      I would never want Lance on much more than the minimum. He has flash in the pan written all over him.

    7. vincoug

      Why would Gasol take a discount to play here? Players take discounts to play on contending teams not shitty, 3rd worst record in the East teams.

    8. GoNyGoNYGo

      It comes down to cost, really. We can blow most of the cap on one player (star and scrubs approach) or we can find above average players at a more reasonable price. Some players are simply going to go for astronomical figures. I would be OK with either option. Signing Durant would be a Star and Scrubs approach but it’s the wrong fit. We need a 2 and a 5, not a 1, 3 or 4.

      Here’s a quick chinese menu 1 from column a and A from column B:
      At center: Howard, Drummond, Noah, Horford, Whiteside, Al Jefferson, Biyombo, Gasol
      At shooting guard: Bazemore, Turner, C.Lee, DeRozen, Fornier, Crawford, G.Henderson, E.Gordon

    9. yellowboy90

      I think he means if Durant commits to the knicks because they would no longer be viewed as a bad team. I for one wouldn’t want Gasol either way.

    10. Dough Chew

      @9 SIMMERING TAKE maybe, but Gasol is a cultured, cosmopolitan sort. I think he picked Chicago over OKC because of the fine arts scene.

    11. lavor postell

      I doubt Gasol is in play for the Knicks. Hornacek wants to play faster, have rumored interested in Noah which seems legit and traded for Rose, neither of whom got along tremendously with Pau in Chicago.

    12. MSA

      There is no discount with Gasol

      He just gave up 8 mil in Chicago.

      Why would he go to a worse team to earn less in his last contract of his professional career?

      And I hope we don’t sign him. He’s still a fine player but at 35, his production could fall of the cliff at any moment.

    13. Silky Johnson, Phil Jackson Hater of the Year

      I don’t want to commit to any SG in this FA long-term, so I think the only decent options are going for Troy Daniels or James Ennis. If you have to max a SG it’d only be close to worth it for Fournier and I wouldn’t be particularly thrilled with it.

      Of course we could always get KD and play him at shooting guard, heh.

      Idk how little of our cap we need to spend to have a mid-max or a super-max next year, but if we had a haul of James Ennis/Troy Daniels, Solomon Hill, and Cole Aldrich (!) I’d consider the offseason a success.

      I’d be fine with Noah if he’s on a 1+1 deal if only for the fact that if he’s uninjured he’s probably still pretty good and if he’s injured we’re gonna be tanking super hard. Long-term deal is nonononononononono

    14. stratomatic

      One thing is certain. Gasol and Noah can’t be on the same team. I’m not sure exactly why they didn’t work well together, but a big part of why Noah was unhappy and his production fell was that he didn’t fit with Gasol and ultimately lost minutes to him. They are basically both Cs.

    15. Z-man

      Gasol might have opted out just to get out of Chicago. The Bulls are more dysfunctional than the Knicks right now.

    16. SJK

      We should throw a poison pill at Jordan Clarkson. Lakers are likely to match but if they don’t he’d go a long way towards solving our guard problems and would only be 5.6 per year in the first 2.

      Also we’re apparently interested in Mozgov, who I wouldn’t mind at the right price.

    17. GoldClub

      We should throw a poison pill at Jordan Clarkson. Lakers are likely to match but if they don’t he’d go a long way towards solving our guard problems and would only be 5.6 per year in the first 2.

      How would this work? Would it allow us to push a cap hit out to 2018? I suppose that is the opposite of a poison pill — can a contract be structured that way with low levels for two years and then high levels for 1 or 2 years?

    18. Knew Your Nicks

      My prediction is that we’re gonna end up with a “low risk on team’s future cap’ ‘win now’ combo on “clever” contracts that will allow us to rebuild majestically in a couple of years.
      i may be wrong but i see:

      1.Howard-Crawford
      or
      2.Noah-Bazemore
      or
      3.Gasol-Turner

      If we get KD though….

      Our tale will begin from the start in a fantasy world where dreams have 2way wings, unicorns shoot buzzerbeaters and basketball gods are in love !

    19. Totes McGoats

      Damn..
      RIP to the legendary Pat Summitt. As far as pure bball coaching goes, she’s easily in my top 6 with the likes on (coaches that I’ve seen in my lifetime) John Thompson, Gary Williams, Larry Brown, and Pop, and Tom Izzo

    20. djphan

      i think the best option is to go after lamb and take on hawes’ contract…. altogether that’s 8mm with lamb hitting rfa after next season… he’s younger than all the sg FA’s by at least 3 years.. he’s 23… he’s improved every year…. that’s a relative bargain… hawes is filler….

      of course we could’ve gotten a late 1st along with this package if we pounced on draft day but i think it’s worth it even without the pick…. we would still have enough room for a mid-tier FA….

    21. GoNyGoNYGo

      Yes Totes, it’s a very sad day. She was classy and her last run as a coach while suffering from Alzheimer’s was inspiring.

      Also, RIP to Buddy Ryan – another very influential coach that just passed away.

    22. KnickLifer

      Whats the likelihood that we could sign Allen Crabbe. I mean I know he’s restricted but are the blazers going to match. I’d rather give Crabbe 15 million than Bazemore. He’s younger, better shooter & defender. Is it a risk worth taking signing him to an offer sheet?

    23. KnickLifer

      Oh and I’m all in on bringing Mozgov back. You gotta figure he’ll be cheap. Cleveland didnt really use him.. He’s more than capable of giving us good minutes at the 5.

    24. ClashFan

      My Plan A:

      Sign Durant 1+1 @ 26m. If it doesn’t work out for him, he can opt out next year.
      Trade O’Quinn and $3.3m for Jeremy Lamb (adds +3m or so in salary?)
      Sign Hernangomez @ 4/$4.5m as rumored.
      Maybe cash left over for bargain basement backup C or PG.
      Go over cap to sign Galloway and LT each to 1 year deals for nice money…whatever it takes.
      Vet minimums/cheap young guys. Maybe 1 or 2 guys on the SL team will be worth keeping.

      Not happening, of course.

    25. chrisk06811

      I say we do that, and then bring Bernard King out of retirement to back up Melo at the 3

    26. Name is Bron - James Bron

      OPTIMISTS: Chris Herring just tweeted: Durant acknowledged that Knicks have a formidable top-3. Melo is recruiting. We’ve got a real shot at KD.

      PESSIMISTS: Here’s what KD is really thinking: Rose has been terrible for the last 4 years. Melo is aging and hasn’t been Melo for last 2 years. Zinger is promising but not a sure thing. Knicks have not a Big 3 but a Big one-half.

    27. GoNyGoNYGo

      I think there’s a lot of potential configurations we could have. I did some Excel number crunching based off of last year’s free agency to come up with cost tiers. It’s much more accurate at the high end than the low end where my info from SB Nation was vague about some salaries. But it’s good for this purpose.

      7 players averaged $20M+ (LeBron, Gasol, Love, Jordan, Aldrich, BLopez, DWade)
      7 players averaged 17-19.33M (Milsap, Leonard, Butler, Matthews, Kanter, Dragic, Monroe)
      8 players averaged 13-16.4M (Dr.Green, RJackson, THarris, Carroll, Knight, Middleton, Rolo, TChandler)
      7 players averaged 10-12.5M (T.Young, Asik, A.Johnson, Da.Green, MEllis,Shump, Rondo)

      So with about $30M in the coffers, with a nice 10% bump in salary, I conclude that we should probably spend around $15M for a center and $13M for a shooting guard. We’ll end up with 2 top 15 free agents.

    28. Totes McGoats

      Also, RIP to Buddy Ryan – another very influential coach that just passed away

      Oh absolutely! When EA Sports had create-a-school with NCAA Football, I 4-6’ed and 4-2-5’ed the hell outta opposing defenses lol.

      Oh and I’m all in on bringing Mozgov back. You gotta figure he’ll be cheap. Cleveland didnt really use him.. He’s more than capable of giving us good minutes at the 5.

      Hell yes! More than capable. You may be on to something. Even with the higher cap, he should still come relatively cheap considering his low usage and diminished role in Cleveland. He was the one guy I felt Donnie Walsh should have never given away in the Melo Trade. He’s big, moves relatively well, young, and can nail a 15 footer- plus he’s no slouch on defense. I like the idea of bringing him in- especially if Noah or D12 are targets.

    29. Donnie Walsh

      one from column A one from column A.

      How would people feel about a combo of Al Jefferson and Eric Gordon? (At the max, of course.)

    30. KnickLifer

      Plus Mozgov is younger and more durable than Noah. Of course he’s not as intense but he is going to come at such a low price. We really need depth and he allows us to allocate the money elsewhere. Ramon sessions I think is a good option for back up PG.

    31. GoNyGoNYGo

      How would people feel about a combo of Al Jefferson and Eric Gordon?

      @31 – I’m OK with them and about 20 other combos, but not at the max. This year we need value and to spread things a bit. We should save $10M for the back-end of the team and spend about $28-29 on the two projected starters. If we can get a couple of really good bargains around the $5M mark it would be awesome. Let’s say we pay up for the center, $17M for a top center like Whiteside and then spend $5M for two others like Courtney Lee and Jamal Crawford (on a 1 year deal). The we would have an 8-man rotation. I would like to go over the cap to sign Galloway and he might go in the $5M too but we have that control.

    32. Cock Jowles, A Living, Breathing, Complex Organism

      I know where this is headed.

      >trades UFA minimum-salary rookie as a sweetener in deal for overrated superstar
      >player turns out pretty okay
      >player goes to Finals in two consecutive years::
      >brings player back for $10M AAV

    33. SJK

      The more I think about it the more I think that our best option is to rent out our cap space to teams looking to sign certain guys his year. Let other teams over pay role players.

    34. KnickLifer

      He turned out pretty Ok when we had him as a rookie. Has nothing to do with him going to the finals. His value is low, and he’s more than serviceable.

    35. d-mar

      How would people feel about a combo of Al Jefferson and Eric Gordon? (At the max, of course.)

      Nah, I prefer maxing Dwight Howard, he’s a guy who always makes his teammates better.

    36. Name is Bron - James Bron

      OPTIMISTS: Melo said: I feel a little more confident about direction Knicks are taking. Rose move shows me they aren’t looking at the future. Melo is the only real superstar we’ve had in last 15 years. He’s loyal to the Big Apple. Team owes him this. A few lucky breaks in free agency and we’re champions like Celtics a few years ago. We won’t have to look back and say: We coulda been a contendah.

      PESSIMISTS: @^^^^^^$$$$$$$$%^&^%$#@@!%^&())*&^$#@@#$%^^&&&**&%$##E%^

    37. DRed

      The more I think about it the more I think that our best option is to rent out our cap space to teams looking to sign certain guys his year. Let other teams over pay role players.

      This is a good idea but I don’t see it happening

    38. Donnie Walsh

      I know where this is headed…

      Gallinari is a FA next summer… Maybe we can sign him… And Wilson Chandler… And Eay Feltob (again)… And our 2014 draft pick (Doug McDermott)… (We can have our cake and eat it too! (Only it will be moldy, 5 year old cake))…

    39. Cock Jowles, A Living, Breathing, Complex Organism

      Eay Feltob is easily goink to be my fave player this yr

    40. Ras1980

      We’re not building a championship caliber team via FA. Only franchise to do that was Miami and they underachieved with the talent they had. I don’t count Boston since Pierce and Rondo were homegrown. I don’t count the Lakers with Gasol because Bynum and Bryant were theirs. I just wish we’d learn our damn lesson and try to develop a cohesive core first.

    41. Frank

      >trades UFA minimum-salary rookie as a sweetener in deal for overrated superstar
      >player turns out pretty okay
      >player goes to Finals in two consecutive years::
      >brings player back for $10M AAV

      you forgot about the part where he got traded for 2 first round picks

    42. Owen

      I will lose a massive amount of respect for Kevin Durant if he comes here. And then cheer like crazy for him.

    43. Cock Jowles, A Living, Breathing, Complex Organism

      What Durant rumors? He’s friends with Carmelo. Of course they’re going to talk.

    44. Jack Bauer

      I vote for
      Noah & Bazemore

      I’d rather have Durant and Whiteside, but that ain’t happening

    45. d-mar

      If the Durant rumors are coming from Chris Broussard, then we know there’s a 0% chance of them being true.

    46. Jack Bauer

      There’s a 0% chance because Durant wants to go to a good team with a chance to win now and he’s not a complete idiot

    47. JK47

      If Kevin Durant signs here, I’ll get a Derrick Rose tattoo on my neck, I’ll buy every JD & The Straight Shot album on 180 gram vinyl, I’ll send James Dolan a lovely gift fedora and I’ll pronounce the word “going” as “goink” for the rest of my life.

      I might do that last one just for fun even if KD doesn’t sign.

    48. Cock Jowles, A Living, Breathing, Complex Organism

      Mike K. is a tech-savvy guy, so I’m not sure why he hasn’t filtered out “going” into “goink” with a simple macro.

    49. bobneptune

      We’re not building a championship caliber team via FA. Only franchise to do that was Miami and they underachieved with the talent they had. I don’t count Boston since Pierce and Rondo were homegrown. I don’t count the Lakers with Gasol because Bynum and Bryant were theirs. I just wish we’d learn our damn lesson and try to develop a cohesive core first.

      The problem is when you give your 2014 and 2016 pick away (previous administration) it is hard to build via the draft. Phil has figured that out and has stopped that foolish policy. He flipped Hardaway , Jr into a 21st pick, but didn’t like the result and flipped him and a nice player in Rolo, but replaceable for a #2, and 2 flyers, Holiday, a player who played his way into Chicago’s rotation and the ultimate no risk flyer on Rose.

      If the primo UFA’s aren’t interested (very likely) and Durant has a hankering for GS, I really like Bogut as a more efficient, better passing, better shot blocking, better screen setting triangular center than Rolo for one third the price….

    50. Totes McGoats

      If Kevin Durant signs here, I’ll get a Derrick Rose tattoo on my neck, I’ll buy every JD & The Straight Shot album on 180 gram vinyl, I’ll send James Dolan a lovely gift fedora and I’ll pronounce the word “going” as “goink” for the rest of my life.

      LOL….YAAAAAAAASSSSSS!!

    51. Frank

      The more I think about it, the more I think we should try to get Noah at a below-market contract (like Lopez $ or less) — if he wont’ do that, go get Zaza Pachulia. Figure KP will get 20 min/game as center, so we should not be spending huge money and years on a guy who will play 28 min/game at center this year and less going forward. Pachulia’s clock is just about on that schedule. He does the dirty work on the glass and setting picks, is a good defender and passer (3.7 assists/36 with Milwaukee before moving to Dallas last year). 3rd choice would be Mozgov.

      If nothing emerges, I might just roll with KP, KOQ, Willie H, and see if Jordan Bachynski from Westchester might warrant a bigger role. Then we can spend more money on the wing position, which really needs more talent and depth.

      Surprisingly little buzz around Larry Sanders’s return. Maybe no one thinks he’s serious.

    52. Totes McGoats

      Here’s an intriguing option:
      Chandler Parsons. Either as the primary backup to Melo & KP or as the starting 4 if KP moves to the 5.

    53. lavor postell

      Here’s an intriguing option:
      Chandler Parsons. Either as the primary backup to Melo & KP or as the starting 4 if KP moves to the 5.

      If we can put up 125 points per game then we might have a chance to break .500

    54. Frank

      Love Parsons but he’s yet another big injury risk.
      Also I think our need is much greater at the 2 and 5 rather than at the 3/4 which is what he plays.
      But sure – if he’d take either a short-ish contract or one with injury protection, I’d be up for that. Seems likely someone will sign him for more $ and years without injury protection though.

    55. Knew Your Nicks

      I don’t know about you but if i were KD i would be a little bit pissed/skeptical about JHarden’s departure after the finals vs the heat.
      [I consider this move as the worst of the recent nba history.Even worse than picking Bennett at no1]
      and now Ibaka…
      i don’t know…

      i’d probably go to the Knicks…[yeah!!!!] :-P

    56. chrisk06811

      I have a feeling that the players have a lot more respect for Melo than we do. Of course, they view the player only, and we view the player and his contract and his no trade. But, I could see Durant having a lot of respect for him as a future team mate.

    57. reub

      “My Plan A:

      Sign Durant 1+1 @ 26m. If it doesn’t work out for him, he can opt out next year.
      Trade O’Quinn and $3.3m for Jeremy Lamb (adds +3m or so in salary?)
      Sign Hernangomez @ 4/$4.5m as rumored.
      Maybe cash left over for bargain basement backup C or PG.
      Go over cap to sign Galloway and LT each to 1 year deals for nice money…whatever it takes.
      Vet minimums/cheap young guys. Maybe 1 or 2 guys on the SL team will be worth keeping.”

      If we don’t get KD I’d go for Noah/Bazemore. That would be quite a score and give us a very well balanced team that could go far into the playoffs.
      Whiteside/Courtney Lee would be great too. Whiteside might be the 2nd most impactful player in this FA class and at $22M could be considered a bargain. If Noah is going to go for $15M I would rather have Whiteside.

      Batum and a lesser center like Mozgov wouldn’t be so bad either

      If we’re thinking about Mozgov, could Kuzmic be just as good?

    58. Knew Your Nicks

      “dirty work on the glass and setting picks” shouldn’t cost over 5M a year if you ask my opinion.
      All you need is a Euro-Bear for this kind of stuff.
      KOQ is not bad also.
      Unless we’re talking about plenty of offensive boards that can turn a game around.
      Then you go to a Rodman/TristanThompson kind of player who are not many and unfortunately they cost plenty of Millions…

    59. yellowboy90

      Honestly if people could live with players like Lee, Henderson, Crabbe, and Fournier playing the two then they should be okay with Parsons moving to the two. It might expand his game even more. He doesn’t lack defensive skills although I am not sure of his effort as he came back from injury this last season. The only 2 guard that he might have problem staying with in the east is Ellis but Ellis isn’t that great.

      The real problem is injury concerns but if the doctors clear him medically then I would be okay with a 2/3 yr deal with Team option due to his injuries.

    60. stratomatic

      Now that we’ve gone into “win now” mode (which I hate), I think we might as well try to get Noah as long as the price is only a small premium over Lopez. I suspect he’s going to have a much better season this year not trying to coexist with Gasol and starting instead of coming off the bench. So even though I’d rather we didn’t make that trade, Noah/KP/Melo > Lopez/KP/Melo for the next 2-3 years. Assuming we can get Noah in the 18m range, then we should also be able to pick up a starting SG that’s a clear notch above Afflalo. If Rose should somehow stay healthy and have a decent year, we’d have a very good starting 5. The bench is another story (especially backup PG).

    61. reub

      If we’re paying Noah $18M I’d rather have Whiteside for $22M. I’m hoping we can get Noah for Lopez money and then get a SG like Bazemore.

    62. Cock Jowles, A Living, Breathing, Complex Organism

      At center – Whiteside would obviously be a great get – THCJ and I and pretty much everyone would be on board with that, I imagine.

      Read ESPN.com and r/NBA comments and it becomes pretty clear that we may be in the minority about Whiteside’s obvious max-worthy ability.

      If he gets anything less than a full $22M max contract, I will laugh forever. And then write a few dozen posts about how dumb Jackson was for not offering the max.

      Whiteside will confuse my pending full-season wager, though, since if the Knicks don’t land any actual star players, they may end up with another 2013-14 season where they’re expected to win 45 because of “stars” but end up winning 20. I am so ready to bet a large sum of money on the under (barring some Whiteside/Durant signing, which would make me giddy).

    63. reub

      Mahinmi is also out there and wouldn’t be bad at all if we can get him for less. What does he go for?

    64. JK47

      We’re not getting Whiteside because Phil has not completely abandoned the triangle, and Whiteside is not a triangle type center at all. It sucks, but it is what it is. If the Knicks throw a curveball and actually do sign Whiteside, which would be awesome, I would say that the triangle is pretty much dead here.

      Whiteside had 30 assists in 2100+ minutes last year. He is really not Phil’s kind of center.

    65. d-mar

      Fred Hoiberg said he was happy to have a player like Brook Lopez on the Bulls.

      See, Phil used Jedi mind tricks to convince the Bulls they were getting the greater Lopez brother. Who says he doesn’t know what he’s doing?

    66. Frank

      I wouldn’t worry- Whiteside is getting maxed. No chance imho he doesn’t get multiple max offers.

    67. reub

      JK47, so Whiteside is a Seraphin-type at passing only with extraordinary talents everywhere else. huh? He could be a transformational player. KP and Whiteside as rim protectors? OMG!

    68. DRed

      Knicks fans rooting for the team to sign a good center for “Lopez money” is my new jam

    69. JK47

      JK47, so Whiteside is a Seraphin-type at passing only with extraordinary talents everywhere else. huh? He could be a transformational player. KP and Whiteside as rim protectors? OMG!

      I mean, yeah, OMG! I’d be fired up for Whiteside’s efficient scoring, killer rebounding and monster shotblocking any day of the week. He’s a true max player.

      But Phil ain’t gonna sign him, because triangle.

    70. Cock Jowles, A Living, Breathing, Complex Organism

      If they park Whiteside 18 feet from the rim instead of letting him wreck NBA-quality centers in the paint on a nightly basis, they deserve to lose.

    71. DRed

      I think Phil isn’t going to sign Whiteside because Whiteside has no interest in coming to the Knicks.

    72. JK47

      I think Phil isn’t going to sign Whiteside because Whiteside has no interest in coming to the Knicks.

      There is also this small problem.

    73. Cock Jowles, A Living, Breathing, Complex Organism

      You’re right. It’s not going to happen. Someone on another site suggested:

      Jennings
      Noah
      Crawford

      Which may be more likely, and might also make the Knicks the new Brooklyn Nets, and might also make me laugh uncontrollably every game night.

    74. JK47

      Jesus, we’re still on this Triangle bullshit after Phil hired Hornacek?

      Hornacek himself said they are going to incorporate the triangle, and I don’t know how you run any triangle sets at all with a center who is allergic to passing the way Whiteside is.

      I don’t say that as a knock on Whiteside either– I love Whiteside. I don’t particularly care if my center can make passes out of the pinch post if he’s racking up a .630 TS% and pulling down 15 rebounds per 36 minutes. I’d be surprised if Phil signs him though. Even if they’re not running a strict triangle offense, Phil does like his big men to have certain qualities, and the ability to pass the ball is certainly something he values in his centers. He would really be throwing in the towel with the triangle if he signed Whiteside, and I just don’t see it as very likely.

    75. Cock Jowles, A Living, Breathing, Complex Organism

      What would be worse:

      1) Passing on Whiteside because “Triangle” (verified by Phil)
      2) Signing Whiteside and then insisting that he plays in the Triangle
      3) Signing Boban and starting him at shooting guard

      ???????

    76. lavor postell

      Hornacek himself said they are going to incorporate the triangle, and I don’t know how you run any triangle sets at all with a center who is allergic to passing the way Whiteside is.

      Incorporating Triangle and running it solely are different things. Bigger reason why they wouldn’t be interested in Whiteside is that Hornacek wants to play aggressive, pressure defense and push the tempo offensively. Those aren’t Whiteside’s strengths as a player. If they got him and have him start blitzing PNRs and running out in transition it would be a waste of what he is good at.

      1) Passing on Whiteside because “Triangle” (verified by Phil)
      2) Signing Whiteside and then insisting that he plays in the Triangle

      Yeah, the guy that has at various points in his career played Perdue, Longley, Cartwright, Rodman, Shaq, Pau, Bynum and RoLo at center would pass on Whiteside because of his totally inflexible system that needs very specific type players at every position to work. Right.

      Honestly if Whiteside played in the Triangle he’d almost become a better passer than he’s established so far in his career with his robust 36 total assists in 3378 minutes played. Asking a player in the NBA to pass the ball regardless of who they are is generally looked at as a good thing, not some prehistoric demand of a bygone era.

    77. Cock Jowles, Not An Orthopaedic Surgeon

      If they got him and have him start blitzing PNRs and running out in transition it would be a waste of what he is good at.

      Wait, what? An offense that’s supposed to benefit from Derrick Rose’s dribble penetration wouldn’t benefit from a guy that can dunk any lob within 5 feet of the basket?

    78. lavor postell

      Wait, what? An offense that’s supposed to benefit from Derrick Rose’s dribble penetration wouldn’t benefit from a guy that can dunk any lob within 5 feet of the basket?

      Yep, that’s totally what I said.

    79. Cock Jowles, Not An Orthopaedic Surgeon

      Bigger reason why they wouldn’t be interested in Whiteside is that Hornacek wants to play aggressive, pressure defense and push the tempo offensively. Those aren’t Whiteside’s strengths as a player. If they got him and have him start blitzing PNRs and running out in transition it would be a waste of what he is good at.

      Oh, I thought you meant blitzing PNRs on the offensive end, which makes no sense and was my error. I gotcha. I agree that he would be bad at trying to trap the ball handler, and yes, he immediately becomes a liability if they switch and he’s guarding virtually anyone playing PG in today’s NBA.

    80. Jack Bauer

      @79
      “I think Phil isn’t going to sign Whiteside because Whiteside has no interest in coming to the Knicks.”

      “There is also this small problem”

      Exactly, so we should stop all of this mental masturbation as to whether he’d be a good fit for NYK or not

    81. stratomatic

      For all you Whiteside fans, Haralabis Voulgaris tweeted that 2 of the worst possible max deals this year would be Rondo and Whiteside.

      Haralabos Voulgaris ?@haralabob 3h3 hours ago
      My early candidates are Parsons and DDR if someone maxes Parsons. GL to them.

      Haralabos Voulgaris ?@haralabob 3h
      Other candidates are my two faves in Rondo and Whiteside.

    82. reub

      If you need more reasons to be optimistic I have 2 more words for you.

      SOULEYMAN DIABATE

      You heard it here first. Doesn’t it just roll off of your tongue?

    83. Owen

      I’d be interested if Haralabob is fading Whiteside on production or personality…

      I can see character, whatever that means, being an issue.

    84. Donnie Walsh

      Isn’t this a great time of year to be a Knick fan?

      Yup. The week between not having a draft pick and making Kent Bazemore the highest paid guard in sports history. 7 days in heaven!

    85. stratomatic

      Owen,

      He’s been negative on him relative to “reputation” for quite awhile. Mostly he thinks his defense is massively overrated. But he’s easy to defend inside by doubling because he can’t pass out of it and he’s a stat stuffer for blocks and boards. I guess you could say be blows some defensive possessions just looking for the block or rebound.

    86. reub

      If you can’t get behind a guy named Souleyman Diabate there’s something wrong with you. Can we all agree about that?

    87. Frank

      So —

      this is from Bobby Marks, who supposedly knows things about free agency because he worked in the Nets FO and now writes for Woj’s site:

      Howard, who opted out of a $23 million contract with Houston, will face a dilemma this summer. He can try to take advantage of the market or sacrifice with the chance to play on a winning team.
      Although Howard is not the same player he was in Orlando, he is still one of the top-10 centers in the league. A team’s style of play will certainly dictate if Howard can be effective again.

      The price for Howard will be in the $12 million-14 million range.

      Really?
      Because as weird as Dwight is, that seems like something we should be interested in.

      Obviously Dwight has his issues, but his play has still been pretty decent. In fact if you look at his advanced stats, he was pretty much at his career averages last year — TS 60.4 (career 59.9), ORB% 11.4 (11.7), DRB 29.1 (29.1), blk% 4.1 (4.4), TOV% 17 (16.9).

      And he’s projecting Courtney Lee in the $8-10MM range. That seems really low to me. I’d take Lee+Howard at $24MM combined every day + sunday.

    88. rama

      Howard was ON a winning team. Then the players didn’t like each other, or the coach, or whatever, and then they were’t a winning team. I don’t think Howard will take any pay cut to “play on a winning team.”

      Also, the Knicks are not a winning team. So there’s that.

      Courtney Lee I can get behind. The Knicks have done well with dudes named Lee. It won’t be $8 mil per, more like $12 mil, but I’m still good with that. Three years, though, not four.

    89. rama

      Honestly, I’m not even sure I’d want Howard at $12 mil. He’s been such a cancer wherever he’s gone.

    90. d-mar

      I don’t want Dwight Howard for $1 mil. He’s an underachieving big baby who teammates don’t like and coaches don’t like. I would literally rather have any other center in the NBA than freakin’ Dwight Howard.

    91. JK47

      Dwight is still productive but he is just the most insufferable douche in the league. He is most certainly NOT the kind of guy you bring in if you care anything at all about team culture. He’s a big whiny crybaby who will happily throw any teammate or coach under the bus.

      Rockets fans are a knowledgeable bunch, and the consensus among them is that Dwight can still play, but he’s not worth the trouble.

    92. djphan

      we really can’t afford howard… he has a market.. everyone who would be interested in whiteside will bid on howard….

    93. Donnie Walsh

      Courtney Lee I can get behind. The Knicks have done well with dudes named Lee.

      Lee Nailon and Eddie Lee Wilkins
      were both magical players.

    94. djphan

      i’m actually talking myself into lance stephenson….

      bazemore 4yr at 72-80mm
      crabbe 4yr at 50-60mm
      turner 4yr 48-55mm
      lee 4yr 48-55mm…
      stephenson 3yr 20-32mm

      just looking at those potential contracts makes me want to throw up …. but stephenson out of all those names actually has posted a PER > 14.0 and a ws 48 of .130.. it was 3 seasons ago but he also had an undercover bounceback year last year so he might’ve recovered some of the game that made him a hot commodity …

      he’s younger than everyone except for crabbe(25) and he’s almost certainly going to be cheaper… risk is relative to what you’re investing and given the market.. he’s a relatively low one and i would not be surprised if he outplayed every other FA sg next year…

    95. Brian Cronin

      I really can’t believe the Grizzlies turned down that super affordable option for Stephenson. Just trade the dude if you don’t want him. How would there not be a market for him at that price for one year?

    96. heavencent35

      Nets are shopping Jarret Jack. I think we can trade O”Quinn to jack plus a pick. Jarret Jack plays well as a back up and a good insurance for d,rose at 6m.
      I heard he is also available and will be ok by training camp. We have two pg from acl injuries though

    97. lavor postell

      @BC

      Charlotte had to take on salary and LAC had to attach a protected first to move him the last 2 years.

      @115

      Jack isn’t very good at all. Not a guy I’m going to move KOQ and one of our limited 2nd round picks for.

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