Statistical Analysis. Humor. Knicks.

Wednesday, July 17, 2019

Knicks Morning News (2016.05.08)

  • [New York Times] Trail Blazers 120, Warriors 108 | Golden State Leads Series, 2-1: With Stephen Curry Absent, Warriors Take a Beating (Sun, 08 May 2016 05:01:39 GMT)
    Damian Lillard scored 40 points as Portland routed Golden State, which was again playing without Stephen Curry, who was still nursing a sprained right knee.

  • [New York Times] LaMarcus Aldridge Finds His Comfort Zone With the Spurs (Sun, 08 May 2016 04:01:08 GMT)
    The Spurs hold a two-games-to-one lead over the Thunder in their playoff series, and Aldridge has scored 103 points in the three games.

  • [New York Times] Raptors 95, Heat 91 | Raptors Lead Series, 2-1: Lowry Recovers His Form Just as Raptors Need Him (Sun, 08 May 2016 02:38:47 GMT)
    Shaking off his playoff struggles, Lowry scored 33 points — including 5 straight to break a late tie — in a duel with Dwyane Wade to lift the Raptors to a 95-91 victory.

  • [New York Times] Keeping Score: Jonas Valanciunas Is Playing Up to His Star Potential With the Raptors (Sun, 08 May 2016 03:56:02 GMT)
    Valanciunas’s display of ability and determination in Game 2 against the Heat was just one more indication that his long-predicted breakout has finally come.

  • [New York Times] Howard Garfinkel, Who Discovered and Groomed Top Basketball Talent, Dies at 86 (Sun, 08 May 2016 04:10:40 GMT)
    Garfinkel’s scouting reports helped widen college coaches’ recruiting boundaries, and his instructional camp helped develop players like Michael Jordan and LeBron James.

  • [New York Times] Grizzlies Fire Coach Dave Joerger in a Surprise Move (Sun, 08 May 2016 02:59:38 GMT)
    A team battered by injuries finished the regular season at 42-40 before being swept in the first round by San Antonio.

  • [New York Times] Cavs Looks Unstoppable as They Eye Another Playoff Sweep (Sun, 08 May 2016 05:54:32 GMT)
    This is what LeBron James envisioned when he returned to the Cleveland Cavaliers.

  • [New York Times] Lillard Has 40, Blazers Cut Warriors’ Advantage to 2-1 (Sun, 08 May 2016 04:51:36 GMT)
    The Trail Blazers learned their lesson.

  • [New York Times] Joerger Axing Underlines Lack of Job Security in the Coaching Box (Sun, 08 May 2016 04:33:27 GMT)
    If the National Basketball Association’s 2015-16 campaign has revealed anything about coaching, it is that no job can be considered safe any more.

  • [New York Times] Lillard Fires Trail Blazers to Win Over Warriors (Sun, 08 May 2016 04:21:27 GMT)
    Damian Lillard scored a career playoff-high 40 points and dished out 10 assists to lead the Portland Trail Blazers past the Golden State Warriors 120-108 on Saturday night at the Moda Center.

  • [New York Times] Lowry Rescues Raptors, Scores 33 in 95-91 Win Over Heat (Sun, 08 May 2016 00:45:37 GMT)
    Kyle Lowry got his game back at the perfect time for the Toronto Raptors.

  • [New York Post] Is Phil Jackson gifting Rambis job as payback from 1999? (Sun, 08 May 2016 00:12:47 -0400)
    Phil Jackson may have cost Kurt Rambis a potentially promising head-coaching career back in 1999, back when they didn't know each other. Rambis was the hot, young Lakers assistant, coming off a cult-hero playing career in purple and gold during which he won four championships. Rambis passed over head-coaching offers from the Kings and Clippers,…

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    115 comments on “Knicks Morning News (2016.05.08)

    1. massive

      In terms of all of the coaching jobs, I really really think we have the best job available. We have Carmelo Anthony, Kristaps Porzingis, and Robin Lopez. That, with the right coach in place, is enough for a top 12 defense and top 15 offense. And then we also have $36 million in cap space this summer to build the roster around a coach’s (and Phil’s) philosophy. And then we have Kristaps Porzingis and all of our 1st round picks going forward.

      Well, Houston is probably a better job than New York. But I don’t rate the Memphis, Indiana, or Sacramento jobs ahead of New York. All three teams seem locked into basketball purgatory for the next 5 seasons.

    2. ClashFan

      Some coaches probably are given pause in coming to NY because of Dolan, but what about Indiana and Memphis? Anyone want to work for Bird after his handling of Vogel and his belief that coaches should be gone after only 3 years? Memphis’s hypocrisy?

      Of course, the rumors that Phil might opt out and be gone after 1 more year here might not help the Knicks, either.

      As for Houston, well, that’s the conference with San Antonio and Golden State…

    3. Donnie Walsh

      I don’t rate the Memphis, Indiana, or Sacramento jobs ahead of New York. All three teams seem locked into basketball purgatory for the next 5 seasons.

      Memphis appears to be in decline, so I’ll agree with that. But Indiana has $10,000,000 less in committed salary than NY going forward, a star that is still in his prime, an outstanding 19 year old big, and 0 owed draft picks (1st and 2nd rounders). That is not purgatory. They are a healthy franchise.

    4. lavor postell

      @4 They also have long-term deals committed to Stuckey ($9m AAV next 2 years) and Ellis ($11m AAV next 3 years). They’re fine, but there’s nothing there to suggest they’re much better off, if at all than the Knicks.

    5. rama

      The Knicks are in decent shape. Houston may seem better on paper, but the issues there seem deep enough to be potentially unsolvable. Certainly enough to give pause. I think we are as or more appealing than anyone else to a prospective coach.

      Glad to see rationality return to the board the last few days. Yes, Brian, I was trolling when I said I would stop following the team if they didn’t hire Rambis. People were out of control with the Phil hate.

      Unless he DOES hire Rambis, in which case I’ll start following a less dysfunctional team, like the Kings.

    6. massive

      I think we end up with Vogel in the end. I’m just upset that Dave Joerger seems headed to Sacramento when they are the worst situation for any coach.

    7. Donnie Walsh

      @4 They also have long-term deals committed to Stuckey ($9m AAV next 2 years) and Ellis ($11m AAV next 3 years). They’re fine, but there’s nothing there to suggest they’re much better off, if at all than the Knicks.

      I don’t know, lavor. Two years ago I remember having a similar conversation with you here about whether Golden State or the Knicks had a brighter future. You argued Kerr had made a mistake choosing GS because they had bad contracts, few picks, and couldn’t compete with the top teams in the western conference.

      I think, objectively, the Pacers have a healthier recent past, present, and future than our beloved Straight Shots. I think letting Vogel go is silly of them, but whomever they get to replace him will do just fine.

    8. massive

      Cleveland sweeps Atlanta today. I think Atlanta retools and promotes Schroder this off season.

      RoLo for Teague and Korver. Who says no?

    9. lavor postell

      Right my bad that I didn’t realize Draymond would become a top 10 player.

      I don’t know what the past has to do with what the Pacers are currently. They have one young player of promise much like the Knicks. They have George in his prime which is better than Melo at the end of his for sure. They have more shitty long term deals on their books than the Knicks. After this season the teams first round pick situations will be identical.

      It’s not a far better situation. Both teams have some good things and some bad things with the ability to be a bit flexible moving forward. I don’t see either situation as so much better than the other from a personnel perspective, though I do think Porzingis is a greater prospect than Turner who I do really like.

      On a somewhat related note I would be interested in Solomon Hill for cheap.

    10. reub

      Massive, as much as I like Rolo I say yes. Then we’ll have to sign Whiteside, Pao or Horford and we’ve got a contending team.

      KP
      Melo
      Whiteside
      Teague
      Free agent like Fournier or Bazemore

    11. massive

      Yeah, I think that deal makes a bunch of sense if we can land Whiteside or Horford and a good two guard. Especially if we land Vogel. Korver and Calderon as your bench guards behind Teague and a guy like Bazemore/Stephenson, with Melo, Porzingis, Whiteside, O’Quinn (who seems like a guy who Vogel could reach), and possibly Lance and Galloway coming back? I’d sign up for that right now. We would win 55 games with that group.

    12. yellowboy90

      @9

      Make it a 3-way deal sending Teague and Korver to Sac for WCS, Collinson, and Belineli’s bad contract and you have a deal.

      Come on Divac think short term and instant playoffs.

    13. ClashFan

      @10 I support DRed for GM. Don’t be so eager to deal RoLo, esp. for someone else’s hand-me-downs.

    14. reub

      I just heard that Whiteside has a torn mcl. Did he just lose a hundred million dollars? Wait. It’s not confirmed. Hopefully just a sprain.

    15. massive

      If Whiteside can’t go then Miami will lose every game from here on out. And it must really suck to be an Atlanta basketball fan. They always get swept.

    16. Kahnzy

      Man, watching the last few minutes of that game was almost painful. The way they were playing, and more noticeably the way the crowd was into (or not into) the game you’d have thought it was the end of the 2nd quarter of a game in the middle of January.

    17. Donnie Walsh

      Right my bad that I didn’t realize Draymond would become a top 10 player.

      Green made a gigantic leap that year, but I think there’s a little more than that between the 140-22 Warriors and the 49-113 Knicks since that conversation occurred.

      And, speaking of Draymond Green, he was a 2nd round pick. The Pacers still own all of their second round picks. The Knicks have traded all of theirs until 2022. That’s not nothing, and, coupled with their 2016 first round pick, more salary cap space, ownership that isn’t a joke, and a proven ability to develop young players, it is hard to point to anything the Knicks have in their corner when comparing franchise health other than Phil Jackson’s ring collection.

    18. basically ruruland but not

      Did anyone predict that Curry would put up the best offensive season in modern league history, that Klay Thompson would become a truly outstanding two-way player, that Draymond would average a triple-double per 48 while being a DPoY candidate, that Shaun Livingston would, 11 years after entering the league, sustain 6MotY play through an entire season, that Andre Iguodala would inexplicably be, like, the 5th most important player on the Dubs, that Andrew Bogut would finally play like a #1 overall pick AND stay relatively healthy, that Ezeli, Rush and Barnes would all be serviceable NBA players, and that Mo Speights wouldn’t chuck the team out of a half-dozen wins all by his lonesome?

      I wonder what the odds would have been after the 2014 season that the Warriors would win 65 games in the next two years, much less 73 in a title defense year. 1,000 to 1?

    19. dtrickey

      Did anyone predict that Curry would put up the best offensive season in modern league history, that Klay Thompson would become a truly outstanding two-way player, that Draymond would average a triple-double per 48 while being a DPoY candidate, that Shaun Livingston would, 11 years after entering the league, sustain 6MotY play through an entire season, that Andre Iguodala would inexplicably be, like, the 5th most important player on the Dubs, that Andrew Bogut would finally play like a #1 overall pick AND stay relatively healthy, that Ezeli, Rush and Barnes would all be serviceable NBA players, and that Mo Speights wouldn’t chuck the team out of a half-dozen wins all by his lonesome?

      I wonder what the odds would have been after the 2014 season that the Warriors would win 65 games in the next two years, much less 73 in a title defense year. 1,000 to 1?

      Throw in the unknown of a rookie coach and the 1000-1 odds aren’t that far fetched.

    20. stratomatic

      1. Whiteside is a well known head case. NY + headcase = potentially lethal combination

      2. Despite Phil’s willingness to deal with Rodman and Metta in the past, I think he has already demonstrated that he prefers not to deal with players like that.

      3. Whiteside’s defense is overrated because he block shots so well. He’s practically a liability in some ways. You could see that in the Hornet series when Jefferson kept taking him to school.

      4. If I am wrong about 1,2, and 3, then there’s no way Riley lets him get away. If Riley is willing to let him go, that screams everything you need to know.

      I estimate the chances of NY both wanting and getting Whiteside at very close to 0%. If we do, I estimate the probability is turns out to be a bad move at 75%.

    21. the don nelson era

      Pretty sure the Heat only have early Bird rights on Whiteside. With their cap situation they need Bosh to retire to make a competitive offer for Whiteside

    22. stratomatic

      I don’t know guys. I think the Warriors clearly look like a major contender in the making a few years ago. When you have that many young players and they all seemingly have a lot a talent, good work ethic, and high quality character you can expect some upside surprises.

    23. stratomatic

      Pretty sure the Heat only have early Bird rights on Whiteside. With their cap situation they need Bosh to retire to make a competitive offer for Whiteside

      Riley figured out a way to land James, Wade, and Bosh. If he considers Whiteside to be critical to the future of the team, he’ll get it done.

    24. massive

      In theory, Whiteside to NY has a zero percent chance of happening. But I don’t think Whiteside’s character issues are too large an issue for a potential Vogel/Phil Jackson combo to deal when you look at Vogel’s work with Lance Stephenson and Phil’s work with everyone so far. And besides, it’s not like Miami isn’t known for it’s nightlife. If Whiteside can stay out of trouble in Miami, I’d be willing to bet he can stay out of trouble in New York.

      But then again, if it were up to me we would have a starting five of Jeff Teague, Lance Stephenson, Melo, Porzingis, and Whiteside. It’s better we leave the GMing to DRed.

    25. massive

      With Cleveland 2.0 in the East and with OKC, the Rockets, and the Spurs all in the West, I don’t think anybody outside of the Bay Area thought they would become one of the greatest teams to ever grace a basketball court. Steph Curry went from a perennial All-Star level player to The Greatest Offensive Basketball Player In The Modern Era. Draymond Green went from “really scrappy hustle player” to “HOF level glue guy.” They weren’t the story at all. Most people before last season probably would have said Golden State would be 5th behind SAS, Houston, OKC, and LAC. It’s a unique situation when a 51 win team that makes no major additions improves to 67 wins and then to 73 the season after.

      Nobody saw this coming.

    26. yellowboy90

      I think there is a difference when dealing with “headcases” like JR or Shump and Whiteside because Whiteside produces at a level above those other guys so a coach/team would be more than willing to deal with the issues he has.

      Also, it’s not like Miami is Oklahoma City void of a major nightlife scene. Miami is well, Miami.

      Whiteside defensive struggles is probably similar to Lopez’s own struggles against post up bigs. RoLo struggle at times in one on one situations against his brother, Monroe, Jefferson, Okafor, and Horford(I believe).

      I do doubt Whiteside is on Phil’s radar though. Now Horford maybe. if they went after Aldridge then they should like Horford. Horford is turning 30 in the summer just like Aldridge was last year. Unlike LA, Horford would be willing to play the 5. If the Knicks could get a good haul from trading Lopez I wouldn’t mind them going after Al.

    27. dtrickey

      I don’t know guys. I think the Warriors clearly look like a major contender in the making a few years ago. When you have that many young players and they all seemingly have a lot a talent, good work ethic, and high quality character you can expect some upside surprises.

      No doubt, but there were still a lot of questions about them that it wouldn’t have been unreasonable to to think they would still be a bit off serious contention in the West. They had seemingly plateaued under Jackson, so the addition of a new coach would suggest there might be some growing pains in season 1. Given the results probably not unfair to say they are ahead of schedule.

    28. yellowboy90

      But then again, if it were up to me we would have a starting five of Jeff Teague, Lance Stephenson, Melo, Porzingis, and Whiteside. It’s better we leave the GMing to DRed.

      I would sub Crabbe for Lance and Horford for Whiteside. Part of me still would want to get Oladipo instead of Teague. He is not as good as Teague but I would take a flyer on him.

      Actually, a 3-team deal with ATL/ORL/NY could make some sense.

      Orl- Teague and Lopez

      ATL- Picks from Orl, Jose, and/or vucevic

      NY- Oladipo, Korver, and some 2nd rd picks.

      Orlando gets the PG they need and the defensive big Skiles want.

      ATL get picks to reset their franchise and a young big to replace Horford.

    29. basically ruruland but not

      I don’t know guys. I think the Warriors clearly look like a major contender in the making a few years ago. When you have that many young players and they all seemingly have a lot a talent, good work ethic, and high quality character you can expect some upside surprises.

      73 wins is not an “upside surprise.” 73 wins from a historically-bad franchise is “sold-soul-to-devil” miraculous. No one saw Curry being the undisputed best player in the league. No one. Find one person on the internet who said Curry would not only win an MVP but would be the runaway favorite in just one season. Not even two in a row, but one. Or even that he’d make an All-NBA First Team. This shit was unforeseeable. Good team? Yes. Playoff contender? Yes. A team that makes the best Spurs team in franchise history look like also-rans? Fuck no, man. No way.

      How about Kyle Anderson with 3 steals in his first 3 MP during this game? That franchise can do no wrong. And Boban, the best per-minute player in the league, is currently sitting at a DNP-CD. What the fuck?

    30. massive

      If I’m getting Frank Vogel’s Lance Stephenson there is no way I want any other shooting guard on the market. 18 WP in two seasons before his athletic prime, and he kinda got his shit together in LAC/Memphis this season. The Charlotte season was terrible, but Lance in the triangle/Vogel defense is something I’d give him a RoLo-style contract for and bet that I am getting a steal considering the cap skyrocket. If Lance doesn’t leave Indiana I’d wager he’d be in line for a $100 million contract and Vogel never gets fired. If I’m DRed, I’m trying to unite Vogel and Lance. I’m also a Brooklyn native and I think it would be cool to have two Brooklyn natives playing for the Knicks at the same time.

    31. reub

      Can’t Memphis opt to retain Lance’s contract? Will they? He drove San Antonio crazy in their recent playoff series btw. I believe only 25 yrs old too.

    32. reub

      I’d go to war with

      KP
      Rolo
      Melo
      Grant
      and
      Stephenson

      and it would only cost us maybe $10 million/per, which is getting cheap these days.

      Then we could add Pao and a Bayless for front court triangle depth and for outside shooting, ball handling and defense. We have the money to accomplish all of this I think.

      Our bench would be Pao, O’Quinn, Willy, Lance Thomas, Calderon, Galloway, Wroten, and Bayless.

      That would be quite a well rounded team, I believe, and is affordable.

    33. DRed

      I’ve been a pretty big Kawhi stan since he came into the league and I never thought he’d be this good

    34. massive

      I think people are betting on Memphis’ declining of the team option, and I sure hope they do. Unless Vogel takes the job in Memphis. Then they would be wise to pick it up.

    35. massive

      There is nothing anybody on planet Earth can do with Russell and KD. They’re going to go down as only second to Stockton and Malone as the best duos to never win a championship.

    36. massive

      It would be so awesome if we could get KD. It will never happen, especially when you consider our front court situation, but man having a guy like that would change everything for us.

    37. massive

      Can you imagine the meeting KD and Phil would have?

      Phil: Thanks for taking the time out to meet with us, Kevin.

      KD: Not a problem. I know the legacy of the triangle in modern era basketball and I think it would help me take my game to the next level.

      Phil: Of course. We think you’re exactly what we need at the shooting guard position. We like your ability to create and handle the ball….

      KD: I’m sorry, did you say shooting guard?

      Phil: Yes, we see you as a two in our system next to RoLo, Melo, and KP.

      KD: Thanks Phil, but I’m not interested in playing the two.

      Phil: If you won’t play the two, then maybe the triangle isn’t for you. Thank you for your time, Kevin.

    38. ClashFan

      I’m guessing Pao still wants to be a starter somewhere. I supposed if the Knicks trade RoLo (for good young, talent, not a declining Teague + filler), Phil could sign Pao for a couple of years, hoping that Willy H develops into a starter behind him. Or, yeah, you could take a big risk on Whiteside, assuming he’d even sign here.

      I hope Phil just builds around KP and Rolo. Keep KP at the 4. This offseason, get a good, relatively young 2 guard to go with Willy. See what shakes out with Grant. Next offseason, get the PG and enjoy having a 1st round pick again.

      My only deep concern: do NOT sign Rondo. Please no.

    39. massive

      I’ll accept the Teague isn’t a good basketball player argument since he hasn’t been as good as he was last year, but come on. Jeff Teague is 28 years old this year. He is not declining. Either way I do believe the Knicks would be wise to move RoLo for a player better than Teague.

      I think it’s fair to question if Horford/Howard at the max is a better deal than RoLo at $13 million. I’m clearly onboard with offering Whiteside the max, and that goes double if we grab Vogel up. But Horford and Howard are 30 years old and have likely already played their best basketball. When I really think about it, I’m only trading RoLo if one of these things happen:
      1) Melo demands a trade and RoLo helps us get more assets
      2) We sign one of Whiteside/Durant and need to clear our frontcourt while upgrading our back court.
      3) A team in the top 10 wants to trade their pick for him and Sabonis/Hield is available.

      In other words, I wouldn’t trade RoLo unless a miracle happened.

    40. max fisher-cohen

      Teague is just a slightly above average player. He had one really good year when ATL was running out a lot of 5 out lineups. Doubt that’s a coincidence. Even if he doesn’t/isn’t in decline, I don’t think he’ll ever replicate 14/15 again.

      28 is late prime. for him to be in decline now anyway isn’t outlandish.

    41. stratomatic

      I think it’s fairly likely the Knicks eventually move Lopez for another high quality player at a different position, but I don’t think now is the time. I don’t think KP is ready to be a full time C and I don’t think the Knicks are in any kind of rush to push him into that role. I think they want to avoid the banging and physical play against bigger men until he’s ready. I think they’ll slowly bring him along and when it’s clear he’s ready and the Knicks are playing better with him at C instead of PF, they’ll try to make a move.

      I think the Knicks are going to try to upgrade SG to replace Afflalo and not do much at PG unless a great opportunity presents itself (they like Grant, are high on Wroten, and like Calderon as a backup). The rest of the cap space will be used to try to resign Derrick Williams and to upgrade other areas of the bench.

      So if we get a few extra wins out of the SG position, a couple of extra wins out of the PG position, KP development adds 4-5 wins, and a deeper and better bench adds a couple of wins, they can probably get to 45 wins next year, be a playoff team, and keep developing the young players from there. I think the question is who that new SG should be and is he available (I like Batum, but not necessarily at the max and he may not even be available).

    42. Frank

      hard to see which SGs would come here that would be an upgrade. Derozan will likely get the max, which I would not want to pay. Beal and Clarkson are almost certainly going to be matched no matter what you offer. If we hire Vogel then perhaps Lance Stephenson would come? But my guess is that he is perceived to have low basketball IQ so would Phil go for it?

      We’d probably be stuck going for guys like Fournier, Gerald Henderson, etc. I wouldn’t mind taking a shot on Allen Crabbe, who will always be at best a 3rd banana guard on portland behind CJ+Lillard. But Portland has endless cap space so it’d be hard to make an offer that they couldn’t beat.

    43. yellowboy90

      I wouldn’t mind taking a shot on Allen Crabbe, who will always be at best a 3rd banana guard on portland behind CJ+Lillard. But Portland has endless cap space so it’d be hard to make an offer that they couldn’t beat.

      This is true but they have a lot of players that they have to decide on if they want to pay. Leonard($7.7m), Harkless($7.2m), Henderson($9m), and Crabbe($2.7m). That’s $26m+ in cap holds and then they also have Roberts and Kaman($10m). I think Kaman and Roberts will get the axe though. So to add up $26m+ in cap holds plus $46m+ in active contracts, when Lillard’s Max extension kicks in, equals $72m already tied up in cap space.

      So what will they do? Will they let Harkless and Henderson go to? They also know Plumlee is up next year and McCollom will ask for the max next year. So it is possible Crabbe maybe had.

      Also, I’d take Fournier over Beal and Clarkson

    44. Donnie Walsh

      This shit was unforeseeable. Good team? Yes. Playoff contender? Yes. A team that makes the best Spurs team in franchise history look like also-rans? Fuck no, man. No way.

      The question wasn’t whether the Warriors were on the cusp of all-time greatness. The question, at the time, was whether the 2014 Warriors provided a better chance of winning a championship for a coach than the 2014 Knicks did. Some people here thought that they did, just as some people are arguing that the 2016 Knicks are more likely to have success over the next few years than teams like the Pacers, Rockets, Grizzlies, and Kings. If I was a free agent coach today, I personally would look to the other teams first, with the lone possible exception being the Kings. I just don’t think that, outside of optimistic Knick fans, many people out there see the Knicks situation, between Dolan, no pick this year, and the constant instability that seems to always be surrounding some aspect of the team (media driven or not), as particularly attractive.

    45. #1 Unabashed Carmelo Apologist

      I was responding to the “serious contention” speculation that another poster put out there.

      Knowing my (THCJ) thoughts on Carmelo Anthony, it’s pretty safe to assume that I would put just about any coaching job ahead of the Knicks’ in 2014 or 2016 or any year that James Dolan is the top-level decision-maker. Four head coaches in five years, including two mid-year firings? That’s grim.

      The Kings are hilariously inept and the Rockets might have accidentally put two toxic franchise players (plus a second run at Josh Smith!) in charge of their team, but they still don’t have James Dolan calling the shots.

    46. prezs2reprsntme

      So it is possible Crabbe maybe had

      I’ve been beating this drum to friends for a while. The guy is a 45/40/85 guy who, for better or worse, relishes and excels as an elite mid range shooter (useful in general, moreso in a trianglish offense). His Defense is questionable for sure but i personally would rather overspend on a young guy like him than on some of the older wings like Fournier, Batum, and Bazemore. Fournier and Batum (esp the latter) are definitely better right now , but i’d DEFINITELY force Portland’s hand here with no less than a 10 mil offer, if not more.

      Per minute projections aren’t always exact but if he could come in next year and score 15 ppg on something like 43/40/80 at his age, which is not ridiculous to expect, he’s easily worth north of 10 mil.

    47. stratomatic

      We’d probably be stuck going for guys like Fournier,

      That may be the best option.

      Next would be Evan Turner. He fits on some levels, but I think we need another scorer. Not sure he’s the perfect match.

    48. Alecto

      As far as shooting guards go I only want Fournier or Crabbe, with Stephenson as an extreme maybe and only in the case that Vogel is hired and he can be gotten for cheap.

    49. Brian Cronin

      I saw some reports that were amazed at how quickly this move went down, but the reason he was fired from Memphis was because he was trying to leave to become Sacramento’s coach, so heck, if it weren’t for the weekend, this probably would have gotten done two days ago!

      It’s definitely an odd move for Joerger, but I guess he liked the narrative of being the guy who brings the Kings up from the bottom. Plus, we know he works well with big men, so I guess Boogie is a nice test for him.

    50. the don nelson era

      Fournier will turn 24 right around the beginning of next season (younger than Crabbe)

    51. Brian Cronin

      It doesn’t make sense for either Portland or Orlando to not match on Crabbe and Fournier. There will be plenty of places they can then trade said players (they won’t be able to trade them to the teams that signed them to the offer sheets, but there will be plenty of other places) if they don’t think that they can absorb the offer. So they’d be losing assets without gaining any assets for no reason. This is basically the one year (okay, maybe next year if the CBA doesn’t change things) where no team should be letting a restricted free agent leave.

    52. Hubert

      Kevin Durant: also very good at basketball. We should sign him and Lebron

      You’ve got my vote for GM.

    53. Hubert

      Although, should you not want the job, I will throw my hat into the ring. I promise to do everything in my power to trade Melo for the 2nd pick in the draft and select Brandon Ingram. He and KP would make a devastating combination. And they seem to be on the same growth timeline.

      I’m sure Phil is considering it.

    54. DRed

      Blake might be too hurt to trade, but I don’t believe Doc when he says he’s not dealing anyone

    55. prezs2reprsntme

      There will be plenty of places they can then trade said players

      You’re probably right, and I wonder how this will end up playing out. I suspect you’ll see more than a few Suns type situations with too many players too good for too few spots. This is why I’ve said if you want one of those guys like Fournier or Crabbe, you’re going to have to at least toe the line on overpaying them.

      Where do yall think the line is, hypothetically, for Portland or Orlando to *not* match? Because with a 90-100 mil cap (this season and next), i really don’t think it’s crazy to push 15 mil for someone like Crabbe or Fournier, since you’re talking 15-20 ppg on decent efficiency + spacing and 2 way potential. I might be just thirsting for wings tho.

      If guys like hayward, middleton, and parsons all got around 15-16 with a lower cap, you figure guys a notch below like fournier and and crabbe would get a similar amount under a higher cap, no?

    56. #1 Unabashed Carmelo Apologist

      Next would be Evan Turner. He fits on some levels, but I think we need another scorer. Not sure he’s the perfect match.

      He fits really well, actually. We’re shooting for no more than 35 wins, right? Yeah, he’s a match.

    57. Donnie Walsh

      The max contract that the RFA’s can sign is going to be roughly $21,000,000 for the first year.

      With all the money out there, assume all the guys you’d ever want are going to sign sheets at that price, if for no other reason just to watch the current team match it. (Who was the last decent RFA that was poached for a below max offer sheet?)

    58. prezs2reprsntme

      Do you the knicks would throw an offer like that at a Fournier or Crabbe?

    59. prezs2reprsntme

      Wasn’t Khris Middleton just signed for the bucks at about 15, without any competing offer sheet?

    60. thenamestsam

      Do you all think Blake Griffin is seriously not on the block?

      I still think they’re too close to a title contending level for it to make sense to willingly take a step back. They’ve averaged 55 wins a year over the last 4 seasons, with some real injury issues and some very mediocre supporting casts. Obviously Doc hasn’t shown much (any) ability as a GM to get that supporting cast right, but I still think if you’re trying to win now (and I assume we’re talking about more of a reload than a rebuild even in a trade Blake scenario) it’s easier to take a couple more stabs at nailing that relatively small piece then go back to the drawing board on the big stuff.

      Having said that I do think they’ll at least be listening, even if none of their big 3 is really “on the block”. They’re definitely getting a little stale, CP3 is getting up there agewise, and both he and Blake I think have ETOs next year. They have real reasons to think about it, even if I think they’re more likely to stand pat. I’m curious whether people would still consider trading Melo for Blake a proverbial slam dunk given this rocky season for Blake.

    61. Brian Cronin

      I think it’s a good time to be a Fournier or a Crabbe.

      Yep. It’s a good time to be any good player, or even a decent player.

    62. Brian Cronin

      I think the line for Orlando to not match on a Fournier offer is somewhere around $20 million. Crabbe is probably less, but not a whole lot less.

      Neither will get that much if they do re-sign with their respective team, though, of course. That’s just what it likely takes to get Orlando or Portland to say “it is going to be too difficult to trade you to match.”

      Note that Dallas managed to snare Parsons by making the contract really unfavorable to the signing team (including a massive trade kicker), so perhaps that’s a way to do it? But that’s not a good idea, in and of itself, ya know? As Dallas now has to re-sign Parsons themselves for a ton of money.

    63. Donnie Walsh

      Yeah, but can Allen Crabbe go out to dinner with prospective free agents like Chandler Parsons can? That’s an elite skill. You have to factor that into a player’s overall value.

    64. Brian Cronin

      Ha! I actually just had soft shell crab on Saturday at this really cool restaurant in the Village called Gato. My wife and I went to see Mike Birbiglia’s one-man show and then we got a somewhat early dinner there in their lounge area (the restaurant itself is booked up for weeks). We got there at 6 and the lounge was empty – within 20 minutes, every table was occupied.

    65. bobneptune

      Do you all think Blake Griffin is seriously not on the block?

      I’d be very careful with Griffin’s injury history. He doesn’t have a quad injury…. he has a quadricep tendon injury.

      The quad tendon transfers the energy generated by the quads, through the knee cap, the patellar tendon to the tibia to extend the knee. For a guy whose entire game is lift, the quad tendon is fundamental.

      He also came into the league with a fractured knee cap if I remember correctly. This injury has a 6-9 month healing time and the fact he has a bone marrow injection (stem cells) to accelerate healing says the injury is far from trivial.

      i’d be very careful….

    66. d-mar

      2016 free agents I want no part of:

      Horford
      Turner
      Howard
      Rondo
      Stephenson
      Jennings
      Derozan

    67. ptmilo

      DeRozan may actually be having the worst playoffs in history. He is 70-213 from the field, 32.9%. Since 1960, no player has shot under 35% in the playoffs on over 200 FGA. And scoring is really the only thing he does well.

    68. ptmilo

      fourth quarter lineup for raps should be Biyombo, DMC, Patterson, Lowry, CoJo. And if they need to go small should be Powell for Biyombo I think.

    69. ptmilo

      also Spo is playing Joe Johnson way too much and he is becoming a problem for them on D with Whiteside out

    70. yellowboy90

      With all the money out there, assume all the guys you’d ever want are going to sign sheets at that price, if for no other reason just to watch the current team match it. (Who was the last decent RFA that was poached for a below max offer sheet?)

      Corey Joseph

    71. ptmilo

      Give Casey credit for benching DDR for most of the fourth until Lowry fouled out. And Winslow on Cojo on that last possession was smart, too for Miami.

    72. #1 Unabashed Carmelo Apologist

      They still have two home games. Why play him? What are the odds you lose 3 out of 5 to the Blazers with everyone else at full strength?

    73. Dough Chew

      Holy shit Draymond is an eater of worlds

      Erasing Lillard and Plumlee at the rim on consecutive possessions

    74. Donnie Walsh

      Good game going on out west… Too bad it’s 1:30 am in the east and there’s probably no one enjoying it.

    75. Donnie Walsh

      Portland is a gutty young team. Not much they can do about Steph’s 40 off the bench, but they played their asses off trying.

    76. Dough Chew

      Donnie, I am in Michigan, and enjoyed the HELL out of it

      HE’S BAAAACK

      THE LEGEND CONTINUES

    77. Brian Cronin

      Corey Joseph

      The Spurs rescinded his qualifying offer when Aldridge agreed to sign there (they needed the cap space to sign Aldridge). So he was an unrestricted free agent.

    78. Brian Cronin

      I’m with bobn. pass on Be-lah-kay

      Oh, I don’t want him, either, I was just wondering whether the Clippers were serious about not dealing him this offseason. My only interest in Griffin as a trade asset is whether he could be part of a theoretical (theoretical because it would never happen, since Melo is never leaving) three-team trade with Griffin ending up in, say, Boston, Melo in Los Angeles and the Brooklyn pick (plus someone else) ending up in New York. Since Melo would never even theoretically play for Boston.

    79. Brian Cronin

      Here’s something I’ve been wondering for the last, well, minute or so. If Melo did not have a no-trade clause, do you all think Jackson would be inclined to trade him?

    80. iserp

      Here’s something I’ve been wondering for the last, well, minute or so. If Melo did not have a no-trade clause, do you all think Jackson would be inclined to trade him?

      I think you have to factor Dolan, and Dolan would not deal him.

      If it was just on Jackson, i dont think he would, but that would depend on the offer obviously. And I think that he’d rather seek young players than picks.

    81. iserp

      For example, an offer of Rubio+Dieng would entice Jackson more than the BKN pick and Boston pick this year, even if the BKN pick goes 1st.

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