Statistical Analysis. Humor. Knicks.

Wednesday, October 1, 2014

Knicks Morning News (2014.07.21)

  • [New York Daily News] Knicks will give Carmelo Anthony’s friend Dahntay Jones a look (Mon, 21 Jul 2014 04:20:08 GMT)
    Free agent Dahntay Jones is expected to work out for the Knicks this week as the shooting guard/small forward attempts to make a comeback after sitting out last season due to injury.

  • [New York Times] Bucks Acquire Marshall (Mon, 21 Jul 2014 03:46:48 GMT)
    The Milwaukee Bucks were awarded the contract of Kendall Marshall, the second-year guard who was waived last week by the Los Angeles Lakers.

  • [New York Times] Sports Briefing | Pro Basketball: Bucks Acquire Kendall Marshall (Mon, 21 Jul 2014 03:40:01 GMT)
    The Milwaukee Bucks have been awarded the contract of Kendall Marshall, the second-year guard who was waived last week by the Los Angeles Lakers.

  • [New York Times] Slumping LA Sparks Fire Carol Ross as Coach (Mon, 21 Jul 2014 01:12:57 GMT)
    Carol Ross has been fired as coach of the slumping Los Angeles Sparks, and will be replaced by general manager Penny Toler for the rest of the season.

  • [New York Times] Clippers’ Nakase Aspires to Be N.B.A.’s First Female Head Coach (Mon, 21 Jul 2014 01:03:19 GMT)
    Natalie Nakase was named an assistant coach for the Los Angeles Clippers during the N.B.A. Summer League, but she wants to be a head coach and win championships.

  • 65 comments on “Knicks Morning News (2014.07.21)

    1. Farfa

      Knicks will give Carmelo Anthony’s friend Dahntay Jones a look

      Blech.

      On the bright side, it still sounds better than “Knicks will give JR Smith’s brother Chris a contract”.

    2. KnickfaninNJ

      It would be hard to say we won’t even look at him. If you had a valued employee who said I know this guy who is really good, of course you would take a look at the guy’s resume. You’d do this whether you thought you ‘d like the guy or not because it would be rude not too. GMs and agents surely also send names to the Knicks all the time, and it doesn’t mean the Knicks hire everyone. So I don’t put too much worry into this. There’s no other Knick’s news at the moment, so this gets printed.

    3. SJK

      Don’t know about how effective Jones is at age 33, but I remember him being a good defender back when he played for the Pacers. Anyway, we’re just taking a “look” at him so if he’s got nothing left I doubt we sign him. Isola’s article also describes him as good locker room guy so it doesn’t seem like he would really hurt as a 15th man.

    4. Z-man

      Glen Rice Jr. wins summer league mvp? We took a look at him in last year’s dreft. Wasn’t he sort of a very talented head case in college?

    5. The Prescient Cock Jowles

      It would be hard to say we won’t even look at him. If you had a valued employee who said I know this guy who is really good, of course you would take a look at the guy’s resume. You’d do this whether you thought you ‘d like the guy or not because it would be rude not too.

      Your analogy is incomplete. In your scenario, the referred guy is unknown by your company.

      In this case, you have 9622 minutes of recorded game-tape and the resultant box scores to help you figure out whether you want to hire the guy. And if you want him to be a leader on your team, why does he have to play basketball? Hire him as a consultant or a coach.

      He’s not good at basketball and he’s old. There are at least a half-dozen undrafted rookies worth using that roster spot on.

    6. Owen

      Glen Rice Jr. wins summer league mvp? We took a look at him in last year’s dreft. Wasn’t he sort of a very talented head case in college?

      I don’t know about Glen Rice Jr. What I do know is that Cole Aldrich averaged 15 rebounds per game.

      Country Cole for President….

    7. KnickfaninNJ

      In this case, you have 9622 minutes of recorded game-tape and the resultant box scores to help you figure out whether you want to hire the guy. And if you want him to be a leader on your team, why does he have to play basketball? Hire him as a consultant or a coach.

      That’s true, but by take a look at him, I didn’t mean necessarily call him in for a try out. Team management probably didn’t already spend 9622 minutes watching tape and more minutes reviewing his statistics. Looking at that tape and studying the statistics enough to be able to tell Anthony what you would do and why would count as “taking a look at him” to me. Of course if you liked what you saw you could call him in for a try out. If you thought he wasn’t good enough to bother with after your analysis, then you could just explain to Anthony why you weren’t proceeding further.

    8. DRed

      Dahntay Jones is cooked, but there’s nothing wrong with bringing him in for a workout as a favor to Melo or to his agent or whatever. Just as long as they don’t actually waste a roster spot on him.

    9. hoolahoop

      It would be hard to say we won’t even look at him. If you had a valued employee who said I know this guy who is really good, of course you would take a look at the guy’s resume. You’d do this whether you thought you ‘d like the guy or not because it would be rude not too.

      As a sole reason to look at someone, that’s idiotic! You’re being disingenuous and only dig a deeper hole by doing that. What if you know you don’t want him and he plays above his game at the tryout. Then, you have to start bullshitting about why you’re not picking him up
      If you’re running an NBA team and a guy is not a fit, that’s it. You politely say, “Thanks, but no thanks. We’ll keep you in mind” Case closed.
      Although a case can be made otherwise, Melo is not running the organization.

    10. KnickfaninNJ

      As a sole reason to look at someone, that’s idiotic! You’re being disingenuous and only dig a deeper hole by doing that. What if you know you don’t want him and he plays above his game at the tryout. Then, you have to start bullshitting about why you’re not picking him up

      If you know you don’t want him already and have a good reason for not wanting him, then you should just tell Carmelo that. I have no problems with that. I never said give him a tryout. I said that if I had a valued employee, I would take his suggestions seriously, evaluate them fairly and then be able to give an honest and good explanation for what I decided. In this case, that involves spending some times thinking about what Jones could or could not do for the Knicks. When I said “look at his resume”, that means looking at tape and stats. If you have already done so, no more is necessarily needed. I assumed the Knick’s hadn’t done so already, because they did tell Carmelo they would take a look at him.

    11. The Prescient Cock Jowles

      Melo is definitely running the organization. Jackson already established that.

    12. KnickfaninNJ

      You guys are confusing what you do (in this case make a decision on Jones) with how you do it (whether you just reject Melo’s suggestion abruptly and without true consideration of it). Both are important, especially with an organization that will live or die depending on how well it plays as a team. Last year the Knicks under performed even your expectation, TPCJ, and the year before vastly over performed compared to almost everyone’s expectation. The difference was that, for the most part, the Knicks played like a team one season and not like a team the other season. Good communication and respect for everyone’s contribution is part of what makes a good team, so I am OK with the Knicks telling Carmelo they will look into Jones.

      I don’t think taking a suggestion by Carmelo seriously is catering to him unless you take his suggestions seriously and ignore everyone else’s. There is no evidence the Knicks are ignoring any of their players.

    13. DRed

      The difference was that, for the most part, the Knicks played like a team one season and not like a team the other season

      Also, Jason Kidd, Steve Novak, and a younger somewhat healthier Tyson Chandler. Yes, last year’s team was badly coached, but it was also a lot less talented than the good team.

    14. The Prescient Cock Jowles

      The difference was that, for the most part, the Knicks played like a team one season and not like a team the other season.

      No. For the most part, they lost a Hall-of-Fame point guard (who was still productive!) and added some garbage named Andrea Bargnani, among other personnel moves.

      Ultimately, the team composition was totally different. “Playing like a team” is a nebulous thing. I don’t know what it means.

    15. KnickfaninNJ

      I agree that the personnel got worse last year. The forecasts got worse too. The team under performed the worse forecasts, so I look to teamwork and coaching as a potential explanation. Both Carmelo and JR have been quoted in the press saying something to effect of everyone not being on the same page last year. Watching the team, I believe what they are saying is true, but I agree that’s mainly my eye test. It’s the under performance to already lousy expectations that I am relying on as statistical evidence of poor team play.

    16. The Prescient Cock Jowles

      No, they didn’t underperform the worst forecasts. WP had them at 35 wins and SCHOENE had them right on the money at 37.

      It was the geniuses on this website and others calling for 52 wins and a conference finals berth.

    17. Loathing

      No, they didn’t underperform the worst forecasts. WP had them at 35 wins and SCHOENE had them right on the money at 37.

      Reminds me: When do the new projections come out?

    18. The Prescient Cock Jowles

      I think just before the season. Too much room for trading to come out with ‘em now.

    19. flossy

      Never too early to jump to the worst possible conclusions in these parts, though! I heard the Knicks worked out Dahntay Jones and preemptively canceled my cable package.

    20. The Prescient Cock Jowles

      I really want to know what those guys in his backup band are doing it for. And I wonder what kind of money they’re paid.

      If there’s one thing I can say about the average 45-year-old blues musician, it’s that he’s totally broke. Then comes Dolan…

    21. SJK

      Ultimately, the team composition was totally different. “Playing like a team” is a nebulous thing. I don’t know what it means.

      I agree that it’s sort of a vague concept. Having personal experience playing organized basketball (as I assume some, if not most, of us do), chemistry issues can have a massive effect on a team’s ability to play to its potential. That said, even if the players don’t get along off the court, it doesn’t matter as long as the team keeps winning. As far as I’m concerned, “playing like a team” means that the team enjoys playing together. Hell, Boogie Cousins, Josh and JR Smith, Rasheed Wallace, Dennis Rodman, and AI would love playing together if they were getting 50 Ws a season (lol).

      The Knicks got worse by losing Kidd and adding Bargnani (either one of those would have made them worse, the combination was disastrous) –> they stopped winning –> team chemistry became a problem.

      Hopefully, this year they will be able to eliminate those issues by trading some of the offenders (Ray Ray and Tyson by all accounts were, maybe we’ll be able to unload JR too) and by replacing Felton’s minutes with Calderon and Bargnani’s with Cole and Dalembert.

    22. mokers

      Off topic slightly, but you really have to feel good if you are David Blatt. You come into the NBA your first year in the league and you go from perhaps having to coach up Anthony Bennett to getting the best player in the world and another top 10-20 player in Love in a wide open Eastern conference. Should be a pretty fun team to watch.

    23. JK47

      Low-end pay for a hired gun touring musician is around 1200/week. More established artists pay 2000/week. Major headliners pay 3000/week and up, and truly plum touring gigs are 5000/week and above.

    24. The Prescient Cock Jowles

      Chemistry matters. But aside from massive culture problems (see: The Knicks’ record for 12 PM games over the last few years) I don’t think chemistry is going to push a team from top playoff seed to bottom-dweller.

      Woodson was a horrible coach and had no business at the helm of the team in the largest media market. But that’s the NBA. And the year before, he “coached” a team to an outstanding record, a team that was stopped by 1) Carmelo Anthony’s horrific shooting in that serie and 2) a strong Indiana team that took the NBA champs to 7 games.

    25. The Prescient Cock Jowles

      Detroit Pistons president and coach Stan Van Gundy reached out to forward Josh Smith to tell him that reports of the franchise engaging in substantive trade talks with Sacramento centered on Smith have been inaccurate and – barring an unexpected turn of events – Smith will be in training camp with the Pistons this fall, league sources told Yahoo Sports.

      Word is that Sacramento reached out to the Pistons (!!!) to get Smith.

      Yeah, NBA front offices are definitely down with advanced statistics. One terrible franchise asking another for its worst player, and the second franchise saying, “No.”

      That is insane.

    26. Farfa

      Yeah, NBA front offices are definitely down with advanced statistics. One terrible franchise asking another for its worst player, and the second franchise saying, “No.”

      That is insane.

      Also, Josh Smith is a running joke around the league. If I had an opportunity to unload Smith I would do it immediately, if only to look good for PR reasons (and I would do it not only for that, obviously). Trade him for whatever. Even for Bargnani (only if expiring, though). It’s a good move, I swear. Last year injured Okafor for Smith? Done. Carlos Boozer for Smith? Done. Deron Williams for Smith? Done. Is it possible that Stan Van Gundy knows so little about basketball? Apparently, yes.

      I really want to know what those guys in his backup band are doing it for. And I wonder what kind of money they’re paid.

      I hope he follows the Isiah Thomas method. Paying 6.000 dollars/week to a once phenomenal drummer who broke his wrist ligaments years ago and never recovered; 7.000 dollars/week to a once promising guitar player who can’t stay away from heroin even if his heart couldn’t pass a basic medical test; 4.000 dollars/week to a bass player who was great for a week at the mall playing Rock Band on the Xbox 360.

      Jimmy, I’m a good singer and a quite bad piano player. For true. Would you hire me to play some keyboard?

    27. massive

      Carmelo Anthony’s horrific shooting in that series had more to do with Kevin Garnett tearing his labrum muscle than anything else. I don’t think it’s fair to state it any other way, the same way it wouldn’t be fair to Tyson Chandler if we just stated “Roy Hibbert absolutely embarrassed Tyson in that series, which was huge in our demise” as if he wasn’t playing with a pinched nerve in that series. Jason Kidd, however, just fell off a cliff and was terrible throughout the playoffs. He doesn’t get a pass.

    28. Farfa

      Evan Turner to the Celtics elicits a lot of sadness. Don’t know why. It could be the thought of a horrendous Rondo-Smart-Turner backcourt. Clang! Clang! Clang!

    29. Garson

      Stephen A Dumbass on the Radio suggested Knicks trading for Kobe.

      Something like Stat + Shump + others…

      A. Kobe next to Melo is a horrible fit
      B. His contract takes us out of the only season we have some cap space.
      C. you would be paying 25 Million to a 38 your old in the last year coming off a torn achillies.
      D. His Defense has regressed tremendously before the injury.

      Stephen A Smith… come on man..

    30. Garson

      I wish a Knickerblogger called in to dispute.

      It would be like playing Chess vs Candyland.

    31. Kahnzy

      Still not as bad as Sacramento apparently trying to field a front court of Rudy Gay, Josh Smith, and DeMarcus Cousins.

    32. stratomatic

      I don’t understand all this talk of Shumpert being traded again. He’s one of the best defenders (if not THE best) on the team. IMO he’s almost essential when your starting PG is a negative defender like Calderon. He’s an ideal pairing for Calderon. You can’t pair Calderon with Hardaway Jr. I refuse to believe that JR Smith is going to be part of this team long term.

    33. cgreene

      I don’t think they are really Shump rumors. I think it was said that Phil may want to trim the 2 guard spot not that he was specifically shopping Shump. In fact Phil on the broadcast said Shump was the best defensive (and only) on the team. Slow news days for NBA now.

    34. TDM

      LBJ signs with Cavs. Mike Miller and KLove trip over themselves to follow him.

      Melo reups with Knicks. Dahntay Jones gets a workout. #facepalm

    35. thenoblefacehumper

      Yeah I don’t think the Shump rumors are based on anything other than our obvious need to do something about our glut of two guards. IIRC there was a list of guys Phil liked when he first came on board, Shump was on it and THJ wasn’t so that would seem to contradict this most recent rumor.

      Having said that, the monthly Shump trade rumors are annoying as hell. Either trade him or don’t. I don’t usually buy into these kinds of narratives but it can’t be good for him to constantly be thinking about this shit.

    36. GoNyGoNYGo

      @32 – I agree 100%. Chandler and Melo got a pass. Kidd doesn’t.

      @35 – Remember that Stephen A practically guaranteed that Melo was gone all season long. Listening to these talk-show host prognostigators is like taking life advice from a fortune-teller reading tarot cards.

      @45 – Someone’s going. I think a few someones (to make it work). We could use a JR for a Power Forward trade. I’m sure everyone here would be down for a JR+Bargs for Josh Smith trade, right?

    37. Z-man

      No, emphatically, to any trade involving Josh Smith.

      I wouldn’t make any trades right now unless it’s a can’t miss deal. Why not wait until training camp and see how guys report and respond to the new system and coach? Shump is at rock-bottom value right now, so is JR. Build them up a bit and then decide who you want to keep.

      Hey, does anyone other than me feel like Indiana is not a lock for the playoffs? I just don’t see much of a team on paper.

    38. Jack Bauer

      No to trading Shump, he will play a lot better now that our moron coach from last year is gone and yes they will badly need his defense.

      1,000,000 times no to trading for Josh Smith, he’s a terrible player with a worse contract. N O thank you!!

      I agree, keep JR for now and see how he responds , maybe they can trade him by the deadline, or keep him if he grows up.

      Kobe? Are you kidding??! That is a Really B A D idea

    39. Owen

      Remember that Stephen A practically guaranteed that Melo was gone all season long. Listening to these talk-show host prognostigators is like taking life advice from a fortune-teller reading tarot cards.

      Truer words….

      The Jay Pharaoh version of Stephen A. is pretty amazing at least.

      “Mario Chalmers is a dear friend of mine….”

    40. dtrickey

      I really don’t get what the obsession is with trading Shump. Granted he did regress a little last year and we have a bit of a back log at the two, but hasn’t this franchise been screaming for some young, home grown players (as in draftees) for ages?

      Also eff that trading for Kobe post-knee injury and Josh Smith Post anything.

      A little off topic, but does anyone else think the Bucks did alright getting Marshall off waivers? Had some solid numbers after going to the Lakers (granted most PG’s numbers look good in D’Antoni’s system). Has excellent court vision, but probably lacks lateral quickness. I really liked him at UNC and he could do well with Kidd mentoring him. Potentially a good pick up by the Bucks if they give him minutes.

    41. yellowboy90

      Unless Smith is bringing back a good player why would you dump when his stock is so low? After his injury he played ok and he is on a reasonable contract. If anything now that he is healthy and hopefully will not be needed/asked to create he can do what he does best and operate as a catch n shoot player. Then trade him while he is playing at a high level.

      The guy shot 46% from 3 on spot ups they should be able to pawn him off on someone. Portland could use him imo.

    42. lavor postell

      I’d consider moving JR to Milwaukee for Ilyasova. He was terrible last season, but he broke his ankle and played for Larry Drew who may well have been the worst coach in the league on a team that was an absolute dumpster fire. If the Knicks think that was just a one off season though and that he’ll bounce back he’d be a great player to have. His contract is guaranteed through 15-16, but is only partially guaranteed for $400k in it’s final year in 16-17.

    43. DRed

      Ilyasova would be a fine gamble if he clears out medically. Anyone that makes it less likely that Bargs will ever play is a good acquisition.

    44. Farfa

      Well, I don’t know. Ilyasova is a terribly inconsistent player, so much that it’s not easy to know if he’s flukey when he has a good game or when he has a bad one. I wouldn’t do a JR for Ilyasova swap. I would want proven players (maybe less talented than JR), not another reclamation project.

    45. DRed

      Ilyasova was consistently good for 4 years, then had a terrible season last year. It’s possible he’s done, but considering he’s only 27 it’s unlikley.

    46. KnickfaninNJ

      No, they didn’t underperform the worst forecasts. WP had them at 35 wins and SCHOENE had them right on the money at 37.

      It was the geniuses on this website and others calling for 52 wins and a conference finals berth.

      I stand corrected on this. But I still maintain that teamwork was bad last year and better the year before. But I will say that the season before teamwork enabled us to do much better than anticipated and then, with less teamwork, last season the whole was just the sum of the parts. Everyone on this board is happy we have a new coach (including me), but if the whole was always just the sum of its parts, coaching would by definition make no difference.

    47. KnickfaninNJ

      Here is an article about the best rim protectors. The Great Bargs is on the list. I’m waiting for the list of worst help defenders.

      Also, K. Love gets ate up at the rim apparently. Hr gets attacked at a high rate and they score at a high rate.

      http://thechilltime.com/look-back-2014s-best-nba-rim-protectors/

      there’s a huge spread in how many times each player gets attacked at the rim (the y-axis). I’m wondering why that is. Maybe the guys with low numbers just don’t spend as much time near the rim? It can’t be that Andrea Bargnani is enough of an intimidator to make opponents try half as many shots at the rim as they do against Dwight Howard.

    48. DRed

      there’s a huge spread in how many times each player gets attacked at the rim (the y-axis). I’m wondering why that is. Maybe the guys with low numbers just don’t spend as much time near the rim? It can’t be that Andrea Bargnani is enough of an intimidator to make opponents try half as many shots at the rim as they do against Dwight Howard.

      There are a couple problems with those stats. First, they don’t seem to be pace adjusted. It stands to reason that guys on slow teams like the Knicks or the Grizzle are going to face fewer shots at the rim because they face fewer shots in general. Second, looking at shots at the rim as “times each player gets attacked” at the rim is probably the wrong way of looking at it. If you look at the leaders in “times attacked” you’re going to see a lot of good shot blockers. I think, in general, it’s better to have your big near a guy shooting near the rim than to have him wandering aimlessly along the baseline, a la Bargnani. You’d want your bigs to either limit shot attempts at the rim altogether or, if there are attempts at the rim, to be there to contest them. Roy Hibbert gets attacked more than Kevin Love. Do you think that’s because he’s so easy to score against? It’s probably a combination of him being good at getting to shot attempts at the rim and the Pacers funneling guys towards Hibbert.

    49. KnickfaninNJ

      You make a very good point about pace. The funneling guys toward Hibbert makes sense too. But it’s still a very big difference in attacking shots. Having Bargnani or Love not defendin the paint as much as they should seems like it would contribute too.

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