Statistical Analysis. Humor. Knicks.

Friday, October 24, 2014

Knicks Morning News (2014.07.15)

  • [New York Times] NBA Seeks to Double Rights Fees From Disney, Time Warner: WSJ (Tue, 15 Jul 2014 05:26:09 GMT)
    The National Basketball Association is looking to double the TV-rights fees it receives from Walt Disney Co and Time Warner Inc’s Turner Broadcasting as the league finalizes deals for nationally televised games, the Wall Street Journal reported, citing people familiar with the matter.

  • [New York Times] Red Klotz, Beloved Foil for Globetrotters, Dies at 93 (Tue, 15 Jul 2014 03:34:18 GMT)
    Klotz was the founder, owner and two-handed-set-shot artist for the Washington Generals, the Harlem Globetrotters’ foils, who owned the worst record in the history of sports.

  • [New York Times] Sports Briefing | Basketball: Bulls Make Room for Gasol (Tue, 15 Jul 2014 03:22:38 GMT)
    The Chicago Bulls have made two trades to clear salary-cap space, setting the stage for the addition of the free-agent center Pau Gasol.

  • [New York Times] On Pro Basketball: LeBron James and Carmelo Anthony Show Big Differences of Copycat Narrative (Tue, 15 Jul 2014 02:27:56 GMT)
    There is a clear distinction between LeBron James and Carmelo Anthony in how they have balanced the art of playing a team sport with the equally tricky but more desensitized business of professional basketball.

  • [New York Times] National Basketball Association Roundup (Tue, 15 Jul 2014 00:41:10 GMT)
    Miami Heat president Pat Riley continues to move on without LeBron James, announcing three signings on Monday.

  • [New York Times] Essay: In a City Mired in Losing, James’s Return Offers a Glimmer of Hope (Tue, 15 Jul 2014 00:41:01 GMT)
    A beverage warehouse near Cleveland was a microcosm of what the downtrodden sports town was feeling as the news was being digested.

  • [New York Daily News] Fisher: With Melo back in mix, Knicks are playoff team (Tue, 15 Jul 2014 04:59:11 GMT)
    Now that Carmelo Anthony has decided to return to the Knicks, Derek Fisher can envision a nightly lineup that will feature a perennial All-Star player he has referred to as “one of the best in the NBA.”

  • [New York Daily News] Phil Jackson talks up Andrea Bargnani (Tue, 15 Jul 2014 01:51:50 GMT)
    Unable to move the expiring contract of Andrea Bargnani so far this summer, Phil Jackson instead attempted to talk up the No. 1 overall pick from 2006 during a televised interview on Monday.

  • 219 comments on “Knicks Morning News (2014.07.15)

    1. Farfa

      “He’s overlooked. We think he’s going to really do well in the system we have,” Jackson said of Bargnani on MSG Network during the second quarter of the Knicks’ 95-72 Summer League victory over Charlotte. “We have a couple of guards he likes to play with, Jose (Calderon) and Pablo (Prigioni), and I think he’s going to be a surprise and a pleasant one for our fans.”

      Can Phil Jackson really limit the suckitude of Bargs? This would be a near-miracle.

    2. Hubert

      Really interesting stuff from Morey and Donnie Nelson.

      Basically Morey laughs at the contract Dallas offered Parsons, calling it “most untradeable contract I’ve ever seen” (http://thesmokingcuban.com/2014/07/14/rockets-gm-daryl-morey-chandler-parsons-contract-untradable-ive-seen/)

      And Nelson’s reply is basically: It’s a 3 year contract for a 25 year old player who is very good, we don’t want to trade him (http://www.dallasnews.com/sports/dallas-mavericks/headlines/20140714-mavericks-president-of-basketball-operations-donnie-nelson-in-reality-chandler-parsons-deal-isn-t-excessive.ece)

      I think Morey got massively outsmarted here. If you read the details of Dallas’ offer (it has funky no trade stipulations, like you can’t trade him til mid-January, and then for year 2 only he has a no trade clause, etc), Nelson assumed (correctly) that Morey would be more interested in Parsons as a trade chip than a player. So Nelson took away all the fantasy GM components of having Chandler Parsons, and Morey let him walk for nothing while seeming to completely overlook the fact that Parsons is still a pretty darn good player.

      Basically, Houston viewed him as a trade asset they wanted to maximize, and Dallas viewed him as a player they wanted to play for them. And simply due to those valuations, Dallas got a pretty good player on a short term deal that is hardly crippling in any way.

      Now it’s fair to give Morey the benefit of the doubt and see what he does with the trade exception he got and the cap space not used on Parsons. This isn’t over by any means. But from early returns, it sure seems like the Mavs got one over on him real good.

    3. ptmilo

      I think you’re misreading the Master. Jose and Pablo are actually two guards the Knicks have posted outside Bargnani’s villa in Rome, equipped with a magnetic Othello board capable of conversion into Backgammon, and a rudimentary fluency in Italian. Surprise.

    4. hoolahoop

      Dallas GM Donnie Nelson on players like Parsons: “can shoot it, they can put it down, they can pass it, they know what to do when the ball’s not in their hands — they’re not ball stoppers, and that really bolds well for how we play . . . “

    5. Farfa

      Well, I still wouldn’t pay Parsons that much unless I already built a contender, so I think both Dallas and Houston did the wrong thing, but Houston did it only because Chris Bosh wasn’t sold on playing in Houston (dare I say with Dwight Howard and – maybe – James Harden?).

      Still, Dallas is here: Harris-Ellis-Parsons-Nowitzki-Chandler with Felton (lol), Gal Mekel, Ledo, Jae Crowder, Brandan Wright, and theoretically they could still add two cool pieces with some creativity. They badly need another big (and I think they are going after Ed Davis) and someone who can command a little defensive attention on their bench (Jerryd Bayless?), but they are arguably better than last year. Apart from Felton, elite PG in the making.

    6. DRed

      Can Phil Jackson really limit the suckitude of Bargs?

      Sure. He can tell Fisher to never let him in the game.

    7. lavor postell

      I guess Dallas overpaid for Parsons, but they also had “extra” money to play with after getting Dirk on the cheap, at least that’s how they probably viewed it. Parsons and Dirk for a combined $25m/yr over the next 3 years is an investment they are probably very comfortable with.

    8. The Prescient Cock Jowles

      I think you’re misreading the Master. Jose and Pablo are actually two guards the Knicks have posted outside Bargnani’s villa in Rome, equipped with a magnetic Othello board capable of conversion into Backgammon, and a rudimentary fluency in Italian. Surprise.

      Post of the year.

    9. The Prescient Cock Jowles

      And re: Morey, those are some big words: “most untradable contract I’ve seen.”

      Why would a GM want to be locked into a player who is well above average, but not elite? If Kevin Love starts saying, “I want to be in Houston with Howard and Harden,” why would Morey, the Fantasy GM Extraordinaire, want to be locked into an unmovable contract just because he was afraid of letting a good, but not great young player walk?

      I’d rather have Parsons than Melo, but I wouldn’t want him if I thought it would be a slab of concrete dumped in my front yard. Melo’s contract just became untradable. Wait ’til it becomes an issue. (It will.)

    10. The Prescient Cock Jowles

      And here are all of the stats for last year from Parsons:

      PER: 15.9
      WS48: .131
      WP48: .140
      Simple Rating: +2.6
      WAR: 7.57 (8th in SF, 38th overall)

      There’s really no justification to pay the guy that contract, especially if it can’t be moved.

    11. Hubert

      Brian Cronin July 15, 2014 at 2:20 am

      Bill Simmons wrote an interesting article on Melo.
      http://grantland.com/features/carmelo-anthony-new-york-knicks-legacy/

      Here’s an interesting bit from that piece:

      Why do you think his agents frantically tried to shoehorn him into Chicago’s cap these last few weeks? The money couldn’t work unless the Knicks agreed to a sign-and-trade with Carlos Boozer’s expiring deal (no thanks!) and some future picks (thanks anyway!). As a last gasp, they used the Lakers as negotiating leverage (you better sign-and-trade Melo to Chicago or you’ll lose him for nothing!), only Jackson smartly sniffed it out.

      Wasn’t Simmons the one who tweeted that Melo was really impressed by the Lakers? Didn’t he actually start the whole “the Lakers are serious contenders for Melo” thing?

      But he knows Jackson “smartly sniffed it out”, which means he knew it was bull shit, which means he was knowingly putting false information out in order to help Carmelo Anthony create leverage to get out of NY to play for the Bulls, doesn’t it?

      (Not that this is a surprise, I thought that was obviously what he was doing at the time, it’s just odd to see him pretty much cop to it.)

      What a cunt.

    12. lavor postell

      @Jowles

      The big issue isn’t that he failed to match Parsons. That makes sense given the position they were in. The issue is getting to that position in the first place when there was no need too, because you wanted to go star chasing. They would have matched the Parsons deal if they had landed Bosh or Melo, but that’s a pretty big risk to take and they came up empty handed which and led them to come allow Parsons to go for nothing. Remember they allowed him to become an RFA this year to allow them to free up enough cap space to acquire another star this year and so they could match any contract he got. Morey clearly overplayed his hand and misread the market for Parsons.

      He fucked up and now he’s trying to save face by talking about how Parsons’ contract is untradeable, which may be true, but wouldn’t have been an issue if he had landed the whale he as after. Instead he struck out and not only did they fail to land the star they were after, but it also cost them a very nice supplementary piece to their Harden/Howard duo. This isn’t even including the fact they traded away Asik and Lin along with a first round pick which ultimately they didn’t need to do and cost them depth without gaining any assets in return other than the cap space to sign Bosh or Melo which didn’t happen.

      This has been an awful summer from Morey and just because he didn’t match an overpay for Parsons doesn’t absolve him of blame for making awful choices that landed him in that position in the first place.

    13. lavor postell

      @Hubert

      I think it’s more likely somebody fed Simmons that info so he could report it as some kind of legitimate news. He was probably used and realized it later when he realized it didn’t make any fucking sense.

    14. hoolahoop

      Maybe PJ is trying his zen master technique to motivate Bargnani or get GM’s to believe, but maybe he believes what he’s saying. I do, and did, before he even said it.
      For the record, I was strongly against the trade bringing Bargs to the knicks (that most people here were for). Novak was a big part of what the we do (did) here.
      I know everybody hates Bargnani, vehemently, and for good reason,. Obviously, he’s not worth anything close to $11 million, let alone what the knicks gave up for him, but he still has value.
      He’s a long, seven footer that can put the ball on the floor with a decent move to the hoop and can play decent on-man defense. If he raises his shooting percentage a little, he becomes a guy off the bench that can create his own shot and contribute.

      He’s not a legit #1, and his contract sucks, but make believe he’s getting the rookie minimum. Used properly and sparingly, he can help this team on the floor and be a decent bench guy.

    15. SJK

      Can Phil Jackson really limit the suckitude of Bargs? This would be a near-miracle.

      In context, Clyde asked Phil what he thought of Bargnani, so his comments don’t necessarily mean anything. I mean what was he going to say? The guy sucks and we’re never going to play him? I know Phil is a straight shooter but he’s not going to throw one of his own player’s under the bus before the start of the season.

    16. lavor postell

      I know Phil is a straight shooter but he’s not going to throw one of his own player’s under the bus before the start of the season.

      I think what you mean to say is that Phil isn’t just going to kick Bargnani to the curb. He’s a big piece of the puzzle and what we’re trying to do as a ball club.

    17. Hubert

      If Kevin Love starts saying, “I want to be in Houston with Howard and Harden,” why would Morey, the Fantasy GM Extraordinaire, want to be locked into an unmovable contract just because he was afraid of letting a good, but not great young player walk?

      But that’s my point. Morey values the future flexibility and potential for a greater move down the road over the team on the court right now, and Dallas anticipated that and used it to sign Parsons to a deal that actually isn’t bad at all. 3 years, $36 million for Parsons is not terrible. Not in this market. Dallas didn’t have to vastly overpay him or drop a poison pill into the contract to steal him from Morey. They just needed to take away Morey’s ability to flip him for parts of (but not all) of the contract. That was enough to get a good young player on a reasonable deal. I’m not saying Morey is stupid for not matching, but I do think he got outsmarted.

    18. johnno

      “Basically Morey laughs at the contract Dallas offered Parsons, calling it “most untradeable contract I’ve ever seen”
      Which is pretty funny coming from a guy who just had to give the Lakers a first round pick to unload a guy whom he “cleverly” signed away from the Knicks by giving him a ridiculous “poison pill” contract. As Lavor said, Morey’s real screwup was in letting Chandler become an RFA in the first place. He could have kept him on the roster for $900,000 this year but chose instead to make him an RFA. That was a major miscalculation on his part, especially since making him an RFA actually slightly reduced the amount of cap space that they had because his cap hold was something like $1.3 million, instead of $900K.

    19. Farfa

      3 years, $36 million for Parsons is not terrible.

      No it’s not. But he signed for 3 years, $46 million.

    20. lavor postell

      @Hubert

      The Parsons contract was 3 years. $46m. Like I said earlier though that’s a bit of an overpay, but one Dallas is more than comfortable with given Dirk’s contract of 3 years, $30m. Paying $25m/yr over the next 3 seasons for those 2 is something Dallas clearly feels positive about. Also it clearly can’t be a massive overpay if Morey took awhile to decide whether to match or not after being turned down by Bosh and also since he intended to match if they did sign Bosh.

    21. DRed

      He’s not a legit #1, and his contract sucks, but make believe he’s getting the rookie minimum. Used properly and sparingly, he can help this team on the floor and be a decent bench guy.

      He’s not even a legit #11. Bargs is one of the worst players in the NBA. IF he becomes much better on offense through the magic of the triangle, he’d be okay in some limited circumstances. But that’s not very likely.

    22. Hubert

      @Hubert

      The Parsons contract was 3 years. $46m.

      OK. The article I posted above had it as $36 million, and I took them at their word.

      I’m still not sure that’s insane in this marketplace. It’s crazy on the surface, but not compared to what others are getting.

    23. lavor postell

      IF he becomes much better on offense through the magic of the triangle

      Derek Fisher would be the greatest coach of all time

    24. Hubert

      For the record, I was strongly against the trade bringing Bargs to the knicks (that most people here were for).

      What knickerblogger did you read last summer?

      I remember two camps:

      1. It was a stupid trade, and AB is the worst basketball player ever (Jowles, DRed, Owen, etc).

      2. It was a stupid trade, but I think AB may turn out to be OK if used correctly (RuRu, me [embarrassingly], others).

      I don’t remember anyone on this site thinking it was a good trade, let alone “most people”.

    25. Z-man

      Jowles, your defense of Morey is weaker than any defense of Melo made by ruruland since we traded for him. First, Morey whiffs on signing Parsons to the QO, out of fear that he could lose him for nothing next year? How did that work out? Then, he ditches a valuable asset and WP superstar Asik for pennies on the dollar so that he could make max offers to big name FAs, culminating in arranging a suck-up-fest for your beloved Melo. Then, once it is clear the Melo is not interested, he turns his attention to another Jowles fave, Chris Bosh. Then, Dallas “unexpectedly” offered Parsons a slightly overpriced deal in today’s market, so Morey has to burn a first round pick under enormous time pressure to undo the preposterously stupid signing of Jeremy Lin to the most untradeable contract this side of Andrea Bargnani. Then he gets spurned at the alter by Bosh, making the Lin deal a total fuck-up. And finally, he refuses to match a deal on a MUCH better and more promising player than Lin. When the Knicks refused to mach the Lin deal, you called Knicks management idiots, insisting that matching was a “no-brainer.” Yet because its the great WoW hero Daryl Morey, you buy into his lame justification for not matching Parsons.

      To call the Parsons contract untradeable is the epitome of sour grapes. Defending his logic is the epitome of hypocricy.

    26. thenamestsam

      I thought this Andrew Sharp piece on Morey was really great. Obviously he made some miscalculations this offseason, but I’m still not convinced it was the wrong move at the time. He took a big gamble which easily (it was close to happening) could have landed them one of the top 2-3 rosters in the league locked up for multiple seasons. If they had just kept Parsons then in a situation where they did sign Bosh they’d have only a single season of their core locked up before Parsons hits unrestricted FA and they risk losing him and being stuck in the 3 stars + scrubs situation. If they’d landed Bosh and matched Parsons this offseason it would have negated that risk.

      He missed, and they’ll definitely take a step back next season, but that’s still a 50 win team with plenty of flexibility and assets going forward. Has he made some shaky moves? Of course! Every GM who has been a GM for more than 15 minutes has some bad moves on their CV. But Morey’s overall track record is pretty damn impressive to me. I’d take him in a heartbeat.

    27. Hubert

      But is Phil going to sit here? You have to look at that.

      You know, now that it’s over I can almost laugh at some of the shit that idiot said. And “but did Beno have to pass him the ball? You have to look at that.” was among the most amazing things I ever heard.

    28. DRed

      You know, now that it’s over I can almost laugh at some of the shit that idiot said. And “but did Beno have to pass him the ball? You have to look at that.” was among the most amazing things I ever heard.

      Was that one of JR’s stupid shots or one of Barg’s stupid shots?

    29. The Prescient Cock Jowles

      The QO was botched, no doubt. That’s a bad move. Not matching the Parsons offer is defensible.

      I’m not saying that Morey is the perfect GM. I’d much rather have had him over the last fifteen years than the geniuses we’ve had at the helm, but he’s made lots of good moves and a few bad ones. Royce White? Bad.

      And not matching on Lin was a terrible move, still. Given the lack of flexibility they would have either way (and considering they used all that cap space to re-sign Melo to an abysmal, putrid deal), not re-signing was a preposterous decision.

      The Knicks needed a PG, and ended up with Felton. Re-signing him was inconsequential to their cap situation. Why not re-sign?

      Oh, and then to go and trade for Bargnani? And give up those assets? Please.

      Ultimately, I find it funny that you point at Morey and say, “Nah nah nah, I told you so.” I don’t care. I’m not Morey and Morey isn’t me. I just happen to like a lot of the players he signs because they project well statistically. Why do you think I care?

    30. bidiong

      Derek Fisher was on Mike and Mike this morning. He carries himself about 1000x better than Woodson. Talked about team concept over individual, maximizing player health, etc…

    31. iserp

      If they had just kept Parsons then in a situation where they did sign Bosh they’d have only a single season of their core locked up before Parsons hits unrestricted FA and they risk losing him

      When Parsons hit UFA, Houston would be able to offer more money than anybody else, right? And Parsons looks really pissed that Houston did not match. I am pretty sure Parsons would have stayed there.

      For the record, I was strongly against the trade bringing Bargs to the knicks (that most people here were for).

      Everybody was against the trade, there was absolutely no need to be giving picks. Some of us tried to give a positive spin on it, saying that if Bargnani hit 37% of 3pt., as he did in his first 4 seasons, he could be an useful player, but that has not been the case.

    32. Brian Cronin

      While passing on Parsons was more understandable since he’s making $20 million more than Lin and Asik were on their contracts (Parsons is making every year the same amount Asik and Lin made in their “poison pill” year) it was still a bad move for the same reason it was ridiculous for Chicago and New York not to match on their free agents. You’re giving up on an asset when you are a contender for no reason besides cheapness (for Chicago) and spitefulness (for New York). Then again, I suppose Morey knows the trade market better than I so maybe that extra $20 million really DOES make it untradeable.

    33. Farfa

      I think even the Soup Nazi carries himself better than Woodson.

      Re: Morey. He did what he could. And freeing cap space is always a good thing, if you are good at dealing (and he is; I would feel different if we were talking about Dell Demps). The only thing he could have done better, as Sharp wrote on his Grantland piece, is to hire a better coach. I really like McHale as a person (and I somehow found myself to care for him after the devastating loss of his daughter), but as a coach you can do much better. I don’t get why there are so many people all that eager to throw some punches in his direction. Looks like that “former executive” who talked about Basketball Ph.Ds could get lots of attention around the web.

    34. DRed

      If anyone wants to rehash the Bargs trade again, you can get a good sense of our reactions here

      I think it’s fair to say that most of us thought it was a bad trade to some degree, but a few people seemed to have thought it was good.

    35. Farfa

      I gave up on Bargs as a 25+ min/game player around NBA 2K10 (and that game had Gallinari at 56 overall).

    36. Farfa

      And NBA 2k14 had Bargnani at 70 overall, actually a growth from 2k10 when he was at 69. Wow!

    37. The Prescient Cock Jowles

      http://knickerblogger.net/on-andrea-bargnani-draft-picks-and-the-importance-of-process/#comment-440667

      There is unanimous agreement among anybody who knows anything that he is an unbearably bad help defender. The enduring image of his years in Toronto is of him standing around on defense, mouth agape, late on a rotation while the opposition converts a layup.

      http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s–O-3TL64R–/c_fit,fl_progressive,q_80,w_636/196c1bbetb5yhgif.jpg

      lol, prescient

    38. Hubert

      The Knicks needed a PG, and ended up with Felton. Re-signing him was inconsequential to their cap situation. Why not re-sign?

      Let’s not forget: we gave up a quality prospect for the privilege of acquiring Felton, too.

      From Zach Lowe: “Some buzz here in Vegas, Houston is in advanced talks to bring Kostas Papanikolaou over from Europe”

    39. The Prescient Cock Jowles

      Yeah, but we got Ray Felton. Dude is a heck of a shooter. Straight-up marksman.

    40. DRed

      Speaking of straight up marksmen, Big Jorts is back on the market. Cole in the paint, Jorts stretching the D in the corner-anyone else smell a title?

    41. The Prescient Cock Jowles

      Yeah, but has Jorts ever faced weapons charges? Or at least been anecdotally accused? C’mon, bro. At least point us toward a Javaris, a Gilbert, heck, even a Zach Randolph. Way better dudes to rise and fire.

      Felton is the best Knicks because he is the most felonious Knick. Also he’s a little fat and I sort of empathize, even though I’m not. I just eat like he does.

    42. Farfa

      Also he’s a little fat and I sort of empathize, even though I’m not. I just eat like he does.

      And now I can’t help but envy/hate you, since I’m on a self-imposed diet of 1800kcal/day just to remain slightly overweight.

    43. DRed

      In all seriousness, I would have thought Jorts would be a good player on an SVG team. I’m a bit surprised he got cut before camp at least.

    44. The Prescient Cock Jowles

      @45

      I try to keep things on-topic, so I’ll address this to Ray Felton so he can become an “elite” player “again.”

      Caloric restriction is good, but high meal-frequency is gooder. Walking is okay, but sprinting is more okay. Strength training, in the 5-8 rep range, will make you strong and build muscle, which will burn calories at rest. Jogging is for the weak.

      Stop eating cheeseburgers and owning illegal firearms and asking your fiancee to store them in her apartment.

    45. Z-man

      Brian and Jowles, you seem to forget that Lin was seriously injured at the time, that he had a whopping total of 1000 total minutes as an NBA player under his belt, a good chunk of those in garbage time, and that he had precipitously come back down to earth after Linsanity. Parsons has 3 years (7000+ minutes) of consistently improving NBA experience. He is a much more solid investment than Lin ever was.

      Brian, why weren’t you all bent out of shape about not matching Landry Fields? Wasn’t he signed to an offer sheet at the same time that Lin was signed? Funny how that non-signing never comes up.

      Does anyone seriously think that Lin would have significantly improved our team as a starting PG more than a D-League call up? Felton was a terrible idea and so was Bargnani, but again, it has nothing to do with whether it was a good idea to match Lin or not. At the time, Kidd and Prigioni were in the fold. Has Prigioni been worse than Lin?

      I would have taken Morey over any GM we have had in the last 40 years, if he had unmitigated authority. He’s a smart guy who has made WAY more good decisions than bad. But he fucked up by offering Lin that deal, and he totally fucked up this off-season thus far.

    46. JK47

      There is unanimous agreement among anybody who knows anything that he is an unbearably bad help defender. The enduring image of his years in Toronto is of him standing around on defense, mouth agape, late on a rotation while the opposition converts a layup.

      Hey, that was me! I thought that sounded like something I would say. Here’s another “prescient” post I made in the same thread:

      Each individual move the team makes tends to make some sort of perverted sense, but when you take them all in concert it leads you to a place where the Knicks are now: bumping their heads against a firm ceiling, with no flexibility and no chance to improve until they blow the whole thing up and start again in 2015. We had our shot last year and got eliminated in the second round, and now it really feels like we are in lame duck mode for the next two seasons.

      PRESCIENT.

    47. Z-man

      If you look back at the question marks about Lin at the time of the signing, Many of the questions were answerd in Lin’s favor. In particular, he’s been durable and has improved his perimeter shooting. And they STILL couldn’t trade him without including a major sweetener, and that is at a number that is virtually HALF of what we would be on the hook for this year.

    48. JK47

      Re-reading that Bargnani trade thread gave me flashbacks to Mets blogs circa 2009:

      Francouer has a great arm!
      Francouer is a .300 hitter!
      Francouer is a gamer!
      Francouer is going to hit better here than he did everywhere else!
      Have you seen Francouer’s arm?
      Walks are overrated!

    49. Z-man

      Brian, correct me if I’m wrong, but signing Lin was not completely inconsequential to our cap situation. If I recall correctly, we couldn’t have made the Bargnani trade had we matched Lin because of hitting the higher taxpayer threshhold. That we used that flexibility on making one of the worst trades ever is besides the point. Is this true, ephus?

    50. Hubert

      I love old threads. From that Bargnani thread last year, here’s me:

      On the bright side:

      WE DIDN’T WASTE OUR CASH CONSIDERATIONS!!!!!!

      So, there’s that. It’s a baby step.

      Oops!

      I did nail the Eastern Conference last year, and how stupid the narrative was in the preseason. Alas, our team was incapable of capitalizing.

      The arguments put forth by the mainstream media are absurd… The idea seems to be that because we lost a tough series to the Pacers, that means we can NEVER BEAT THEM. As if no team has ever been beaten by a team one year and come back to beat them the following year. Knicks-Pacers was a…coin toss.

      Oh but Derrick Rose is back. Derrick Rose who has won nothing in his career except an MVP award that was handed to him out of spite. Derrick Rose whose coach runs his players into the ground EVERY. SINGLE. YEAR. We should not try because maybe this is finally the year they’re not all nursing injuries come May.

      Oh but the Nets are retooling. L. O. F’n. L.

      And now the Heat are invincible? They looked pretty vincible against Indiana. They looked pretty vincible when the god damn ropes were out to give the championship trophy to another team.

    51. Farfa

      Parsons has 3 years (7000+ minutes) of consistently improving NBA experience.

      I would say instead that he’s declining, not improving. I really, really liked Parsons much more in years 1 and 2 than last year. Year 1 Parsons was a good defender, a cool rebounder and a really nice player, apart from his deficiency in hitting free throws. Year 3 Parsons was a mediocre defender at best who cared much more for his own than for the team.

    52. DRed

      And they STILL couldn’t trade him without including a major sweetener, and that is at a number that is virtually HALF of what we would be on the hook for this year.

      Houston had to throw in that pick because everyone understood that Morey was desperate to move Lin. They had a narrow window in which they could sign Bosh and re-sign Parsons.

    53. lavor postell

      @DRed

      They also had to throw in a pick for Lin because nobody would touch that last $15m owed to him this year without a sweetener.

    54. Hubert

      Is it me or do the 2014-15 Wizards have a lot of 2013-14 Knicks potential?

      I heard Mike & Mike this morning talking about them like they were one of the 3 contenders to win the East and found that, well, odd.

    55. GoNyGoNYGo

      @9 – Jowles,
      I can’t believe you said “I’d rather have Parsons than Melo”. You CAN’T be serious. I hope that was sarcasm of some sort.

      @35 – DRed
      I wasn’t a big fan of the Bargnani trade, but I could see how it could work. I’ll get thrashed here for this, but I’m hopeful that we’ll get value out of Bargnani this year. I don’t think he’s been used properly yet in the NBA. Woodson was an idiot when it came to Bargs. He salivated at the idea of a stretch-4.

      If I were his coach he would play center and I would have him play down low in the post. I would also tell him that he was mandated to block 1 shot for every 15 minutes on the floor and get 1 rebound for every 5 minutes on the floor. It didn’t matter if he scored 0 or 50 points per game. He needs retraining. A 7-footer that cannot guard the paint and hit the boards is useless. That scoring is gravy.

      @47 – DRed
      I really liked Jorts and thought he could develop into a lesser David Lee. I’m surprised SVG let him go too. He could be a vet-minimum pickup for the Knicks as a last resort.

    56. Farfa

      Looks like Rubio is asking a 5 years max extension to stay in Minnesota.

      LOL! The power of Kahn still runs deep in that franchise.

    57. Z-man

      DRed, Lin has been on the trading block for months now. Morey would have tripped over himself to dump him for a 2nd round pick and a bag of balls. Nobody wanted him or he would have been traded.

    58. lavor postell

      But Bosh never made a hard commitment, according to multiple sources familiar with the process. There was no guarantee of signing him when Houston made what is now a catastrophic trade with the Lakers, forking over Jeremy Lin and a first-round pick to clear space for Bosh.

      That is amazingly stupid by Morey. All he needed to do was make sure the Lakers were amenable to that agreement instead of moving to finalize the deal before being certain Bosh would come to Houston. If he hadn’t received a hard verbal from Bosh it was incredibly rash to move Lin even if the Lakers did give him a deadline.

    59. lavor postell

      One last word on Bosh: He was intrigued by Houston, but he’s 30, he’s super-smart, and he just spent four years playing with two like-minded stars on an older roster for an organization that takes basketball craft seriously. The Rockets do, too, but there is an undercurrent around the league that Harden and Howard don’t represent the most appealing duo of teammates for any star who has lived within ultraserious professionalism.

      Howard was great last year, but the jokiness and free-agent dithering hurt his image. The viral videos of Harden’s defense damaged his reputation. It wouldn’t shock me if Bosh at least considered some of that in his decision.

      I found this incredibly interesting. That wouldn’t surprise me at all if true.

    60. hoolahoop

      Bargs is one of the worst players in the NBA.

      That’s become the narrative, and it’s simply not true.

      Everybody was against the trade, there was absolutely no need to be giving picks.

      That’s revisionist history. I read plenty of posts about why the trade made sense and wondered why, despite his defensive dificiency, Novak wouldn’t be missed bigtime on offense. A lot of people thought Bargs was Novak+.

    61. GoNyGoNYGo

      @68
      I agree about Bargnani to a point. I hoped he was going to be Novak+ and he was. I also hoped he was going to be the backup center that we needed for Chandler. If he was both, and he stayed healthy, nobody would be bitching today. Fact is that he was misused and abused and then was lost for the season.

      The more I think about last season, the sicker I get.

    62. lavor postell

      Bargs fucking sucks. How is this even a debate anymore? He’s probably better in a 1-on-1 setting than Novak but in an NBA game he doesn’t do one fucking thing of value on the floor to be considered a good player. Novak is a 3 point shooter that teams were at least always aware and rarely got open uncontested looks because of how much teams feared his ability to make them pay.

      Bargs was supposed to replace Novak by providing a similar ability to hit from 3 while also being able to put the ball on the deck against hard closeouts and make teams pay. Unfortunately as we saw teams are more than happy to give Bargs uncontested threes from his favorite top of the key area and he shot under 30%. The only thing Bargs is above league average at is shooting long two’s which is one of the least useful talents in the modern NBA when you have nothing else of value to bring to the table. Fuck Bargnani.

    63. Brian Cronin

      Brian, correct me if I’m wrong, but signing Lin was not completely inconsequential to our cap situation. If I recall correctly, we couldn’t have made the Bargnani trade had we matched Lin because of hitting the higher taxpayer threshhold. That we used that flexibility on making one of the worst trades ever is besides the point. Is this true, ephus?

      They could have still made the Bargs trade. The only restrictions on trades teams over the luxury tax have (besides not being able to acquire a signed and traded free agent) is the same as it is for teams over the cap period, that they cannot acquire more than 125% plus $100,000 of the salary they trade away. There are no extra restrictions on trades the higher you go in the luxury tax, besides just the general “if you add more salary you pay more in luxury tax.”

    64. DRed

      Bargs is one of the worst players in the NBA.

      That’s become the narrative, and it’s simply not true.

      Bargs doesn’t score efficiently. He’s a terrible rebounder. He doesn’t generate many free throws. He doesn’t get steals. He doesn’t pass much. He can’t play team defense. He’s bad at basically everything.

    65. Brian Cronin

      Oh, I didn’t know the Parsons deal had a third year player option and a trade kicker. Yikes. But yeah, still, just fucking match it, dude. You made the guy a free agent, if you didn’t expect that he might get a crazy offer, then what the fuck were you thinking? Just match it.

    66. Brian Cronin

      I will give Bargs and Jackson this much – the one thing that Bargs can do (besides a small sample size of succcess on the low post as a defender) is make long twos. Yes, it is the worst shot in the NBA, but it is also a key part of the Triangle (using the notion that since it is the worst shot in the NBA, it is therefore also the least defended shot in the NBA). So I’ll give Bargs that much – his long two prowess does at least kind of sort of fit in with the Triangle.

    67. KnickfaninNJ

      Is it me or do the 2014-15 Wizards have a lot of 2013-14 Knicks potential?

      I heard Mike & Mike this morning talking about them like they were one of the 3 contenders to win the East and found that, well, odd.

      I don’t find that so odd. They made the second round last season and lots of people thought they had a chance to beat Indiana and make the finals (admittedly, partially because Indiana had been playing so badly). Also, players in a position like Pierce often want to be a role player on a good team with young guys that will do well. So it’s a vote of confidence in the Wizards that Pierce signed with them.

      Note, I haven’t yet read the Grantland article pointed to above, so this post may say things it already said.

    68. DRed

      Hitting 48% on long twos is not really that good in the big picture. And that was a career high. Bargs is going to suck in the triangle, just like he’s sucked every year he’s been in the NBA, for the simple reason that he’s a shitty basketball player.

    69. Brian Cronin

      Speaking of another team that should just pay their own free agent, freakin’ Indiana. Just pay Born Ready!! The Heat are no longer threats. The Cavs are probably a year away. Why in the world would you move away from your opportunity to win the Eastern Conference this year when Lance is not even going to cost that much. I like CJ Miles, but you’re not replacing Lance with CJ freakin’ Miles!

    70. The Prescient Cock Jowles

      I will not tolerate optimism regarding Andrea Bargnani. He’s a D-Leaguer who got drafted #1. Anthony Bennett will have the same career trajectory.

      Eventually, the Knicks will trade at least one first-rounder for Bennett.

    71. massive

      Andrea Bargnani will never be good at basketball because he’s only good at the most worthless parts of the NBA game; 1 on 1 post defense and long range two point scoring. He sucks at literally everything else. He can’t be a good team defender, he’s not a good passer, he’s an abysmal rebounder, and he’s a terrible scorer. The man sucks. I tried to have hope for his ability to succeed in a limited role, but that will never happen.

      Then again, maybe Phil and Fish will sit him in a corner and get him to play well, because Mike Woodson isn’t a good coach. I’m actually hoping he just sits on the bench and collects a paycheck.

    72. Brian Cronin

      Then again, maybe Phil and Fish will sit him in a corner and get him to play well, because Mike Woodson isn’t a good coach. I’m actually hoping he just sits on the bench and collects a paycheck.

      My hope as well, to be honest, but the long twos are something, at least!

    73. Nick C.

      “most 1st I will not tolerate optimism regarding Andrea Bargnani. He’s a D-Leaguer who got drafted #1. Anthony Bennett will have the same career trajectory.

      Eventually, the Knicks will trade at least one first-rounder for Bennett.”

      To be followed by post after post “most first rounders are busts” “you can’t rebuild in NY” “he was 3rd in the NBA in (insert esoteric shot, stat) according to Synergy etc.” lol

    74. formido

      > If you look back at the question marks about Lin at the time of the signing, Many of the questions were answerd in Lin’s favor. In particular, he’s been durable and has improved his perimeter shooting. And they STILL couldn’t trade him without including a major sweetener, and that is at a number that is virtually HALF of what we would be on the hook for this year.

      Players aren’t what they are in a vacuum. They depend on their roles. Revis didn’t have the same effect on team pass defense when he played zone with Tampa.

      I remember that you were anti-Lin before and obviously you are now, so I expect you won’t be particularly charitable in evaluating contradictory evidence, but nevertheless: What made Lin special with the Knicks — and it was even this way once his role solidified during that winning stretch under Woodson — was being a high usage PG using the pick and roll and making many of the team’s offensive decisions. This has not been his role at Houston, ever, because of Harden. If you’ve watched any Houston games, or looked at any Houston stats, or spent any time on Houston forums, you should be well aware that Harden dominates the offense. There was no room for Lin’s strengths.

      According to NBA’s new player tracking stats, Lin is nearly the most efficient drive finisher in the league among high volume drivers. According to several stat sources, Lin is a top 5 pick and roll player. According to Morey’s internal stats, Lin was THE most effective pick and roll player in the NBA the last two seasons. Dwight Howard refuses to run pick and rolls, though. Houston ran almost the fewest pick and rolls in the league.

      Over the last 2 season, Lin has played a half dozen or so games in the Harden role while Harden was out. He’s averaging Linsanity numbers in those games. The traits that make Lin special haven’t gone anywhere. Perhaps Lin will get normal starter minutes, normal usage, and normal pick and roll opps this year. Think 18/8 gets the fan vote?

    75. formido

      There’s a reason Lowry and Dragic broke out after leaving Houston, and that reason is McHale and the Rocket offensive system. If Lin had stayed with the Knicks, his production would look quite different.

    76. DRed

      Anthony Bennett can still develop into a run of the mill mediocre NBA player. Bargs is what he is at this point. And that’s a very bad player. He should be out of the league.

    77. Hubert

      Speaking of another team that should just pay their own free agent, freakin’ Indiana. Just pay Born Ready!! The Heat are no longer threats. The Cavs are probably a year away. Why in the world would you move away from your opportunity to win the Eastern Conference this year when Lance is not even going to cost that much. I like CJ Miles, but you’re not replacing Lance with CJ freakin’ Miles!

      I’ve heard (I think from Lowe on a podcast) that his teammates don’t want him back. At all.

    78. Hubert

      There’s a reason Lowry and Dragic broke out after leaving Houston, and that reason is McHale and the Rocket offensive system. If Lin had stayed with the Knicks, his production would look quite different.

      Lin did get screwed the minute the Harden trade happened. Totally incompatible players.

    79. Brian Cronin

      Dwight Howard is sort of like a much, much, much, much. much. much more talented version of Anthony Randolph. “I don’t care that the pick and roll is perfect for me, i don’t wanna run it!”

      D’Antoni was foolish to not check first to see what the deal was, of course, but I can only imagine how confused he was when he learned that he was hired to coach the Lakers and yet Howard didn’t want to run the pick and roll.

      Jimmy Buss is not the sharpest tool in the shed. Why would you hire D’Antoni when you must know Howard, the guy you just traded lot to get and you badly need to re-sign, doesn’t want to play D’Antoni’s style of basketball?

    80. Brian Cronin

      I’ve heard (I think from Lowe on a podcast) that his teammates don’t want him back. At all.

      I can believe that, and if true, man, what babies. Once Lance gets his money I bet he’ll calm the eff down a bit.

    81. Z-man

      Two things, formido.
      One, if Lin was so good in that role, why did the analytical genius Daryl Morey empower a coach that wasn’t going to use him in that role, in effect turning a valuable asset into a first round pick costing liability?
      Two, why did not a single other GM in the league…not Presti, not Morey, not Bird, no one…recognize this greatness? The entire league plays P&R basketball now.

      When Lin played his last 15 games with us, the bloom was already off the rose regarding Lin’s P&R prowess. The book on Lin was, force him left and make him hit the 15 footer. If he gets to the rim, knock him down.

      The bottom line is that Houston replaced him with a minimum salary D-Leaguer. And nobody would take a flyer on him on an $8 million/1-year deal this year without a major kicker being included in the deal. For everything you point out that he is statistically great at, there is something he statistically sucks at, starting with his abysmal TO rate.

    82. thenamestsam

      I can believe that, and if true, man, what babies. Once Lance gets his money I bet he’ll calm the eff down a bit.

      You never had a coworker you couldn’t stand working with? And keep in mind these guys spend way, way more time together than your average coworkers. In season they’re practically family. Lance seems insufferable. It doesn’t seem hard for me to believe at all that some perfectly reasonable people would HATE having Lance as a teammate. And I don’t see how that makes them babies. Now, that doesn’t mean Bird should give a crap whether those guys like having Lance around if he thinks it will help them win the East, but I was definitely getting the feeling Bird was pretty sick of him by the end of last year too.

    83. Brian Cronin

      I don’t mind them hating the guy, I only think they’d be babies if their dislike for him is keeping the Pacers from re-signing him when they otherwise would, which is how I took the comment from Lowe (or whoever) that Hubert relayed. They don’t have a particularly large window with David West’s age – they really need to go for it this year and Stephenson is, to quote the great Mike Woodson, “a big part of what they do.”

    84. Hubert

      Well, they did inexplicably disintegrate. Maybe he did more behind the scenes than we know.

    85. iserp

      That’s revisionist history. I read plenty of posts about why the trade made sense and wondered why, despite his defensive dificiency, Novak wouldn’t be missed bigtime on offense. A lot of people thought Bargs was Novak+.

      Even people argued that the trade “made sense” did not that we gave picks because Bargnani was about to be amnestied (and he is not a player worth giving picks for). Novak was a longer deal, and although he was a fun player to root, he was bad. It was argued that Bargnani was coming of an injury, and if he returned to the form of his first 4 seasons he would be a Novak+, while being able to fill at C (yes, a bad C, but a better C than Novak). And the trade works better for next summer. If you look that way, “it makes sense”. Giving picks for it does not make sense.

    86. Brian Cronin

      I dunno, iserp, looking at that comments from that old thread, there definitely did seem to be folks who were cool with the draft picks being included.

    87. Z-man

      Just to clarify, I never disliked Lin and wish we had been able to keep him. Everybody here, and I mean everybody, thought that the MLE was a fair deal for him. I think Morey fucked us out of Lin by vastly overpaying him in that offer sheet. I think the record now confirms that he vastly overpayed him, and that it would have been stupid for us to match. I think that Morey HIMSELF realizes that now, and doesn’t want to make the same “mistake” with Parsons (although imho Parsons is closer to being worth the money, but will concede that it is at least debatable.)

      So, according to Brian, Morey the Genius doesn’t have a brain because this is a no-brainer decision and he’s still not matching. And tht Genius is doing the same thing we did with Lin by not matching purely on the basis that he doesn’t think Parsons is worth the money. And for the thousanth time, why is nobody saying that not matching Landry Fields’ offer sheet was a no-brainer? Doesn’t the same, exact logic apply?

    88. ephus

      I will step and admit that I was in favor of the Bargnani trade when it happened. I thought that Bargnani would be able to fulfill the stretch 5 role. I thought he would be better able to stay on the floor than Novak because he could put the ball on the floor to prevent hard closeouts. I saw no value in Camby or Richardson (which was correct). And I believed that the 2016 first round pick was likely to have only moderate value, because Denver already had the right to swap picks. I did not imagine that both the Knicks and Nuggets would be lottery teams in 2016.

      I was wrong.

      Bargnani is so bad at the things he is bad at (three point shooting, team defense, rebounding, passing) that he was unplayable last year.

      I hope that Phish can extract value from Bargnani, either as a trade or a VERY limited role player. I have little hope of that.

    89. DRed

      Novak has always been better than Bargnani, because he had an elite skill. If your offense can generate looks for Novak he will make the other team pay. Yes, Bargs is more skilled an had a more diverse skill set on offense, but he doesn’t do anything very well, so it doesn’t matter. Teams playing the Knicks probably want Bargs taking shots.

    90. Z-man

      Re: Bargnani, I was dead wrong in supporting the logic behind that trade. My main rational was that Bargs’ situation was strongly suggestive of Blatche’s when the Nets took a flier on him, and that if he turned things around the same way that Blatche did in an eerily similar set of circumstances, he’d be worth it. As it turned out, Bargnani is just a bad basketball player, just like Anthony Randolph is a bad basketball player. But I never argued that the trade was DEFINITELY a good idea, only that there was logic to it and that there was a reasonable chance that it could turn out well, even if less than 50% likely.

    91. Donnie Walsh

      That old Bargnani trade thread was a good read. It was the usual suspects (who are routinely wrong about everything they prognosticate) that were most pro-trade. All the people that history proves routinely correct, as expected, were disgusted by the trade and everything they said would happen did.

      (There’s even an exchange where Ruruland and er gang up on hooplahoop for suggesting the 2014 Knicks will win 41 games… er makes fun on him, facetiously saying “why not 37 wins?”. Hooplahoop says “maybe”. So I’m not sure who should get the credit for nailing the exact win total 10 months out. Shared credit?)

    92. Jack Bauer

      Can Phil Jackson really limit the suckitude of Bargs?

      “Sure. He can tell Fisher to never let him in the game.”

      +100. Less Bargnani is a good thing for the Knicks

    93. The Prescient Cock Jowles

      @104

      37 wins was the WoW projection. Hence why they said, “Why not 37?”

    94. Z-man

      Re: Lin, by MLE, I mean what we could offer under the rules, which I believe was $4-5 mill per for 3-4 years, something like that.

    95. JK47

      Lin was worth 4.4 Win Shares last year, Felton 2.2. That may not seem like a lot until you realize that the Knicks missed the playoffs by one game. Indiana was flailing and the Knicks were playing well, and NYK might have had a good chance at making some noise in that series. If Jeremy Lin had put up the exact same numbers for NYK that he did for Houston last year, he’d have been the 3rd most productive player on the team.

      And as far as Bargnani goes, predicting that Andrea Bargnani was going to be terrible was one of the easiest predictions in the world to make. There were mountains of evidence pointing to Bargs’ terribleness. I’m going to go out on a limb and say he’s gonna be terrible again next year, until he hurts his elbow again. That’s his one saving grace, the bum elbow. At least you know he’s gonna break down somewhere around the 1000 minute mark.

    96. er

      That old Bargnani trade thread was a good read. It was the usual suspects (who are routinely wrong about everything they prognosticate) that were most pro-trade. All the people that history proves routinely correct, as expected, were disgusted by the trade and everything they said would happen did.

      (There’s even an exchange where Ruruland and er gang up on hooplahoop for suggesting the 2014 Knicks will win 41 games… er makes fun on him, facetiously saying “why not 37 wins?”. Hooplahoop says “maybe”. So I’m not sure who should get the credit for nailing the exact win total 10 months out. Shared credit?)

      Haha this is funny. I dont feel like reading through the thread but i dont think i was ever “pro trade” The first round pick was awful. I just hoped Barfnani would be successful here. Nope he sucks

    97. Z-man

      How many other PGs making less money than Lin (AND Felton!) would have been a similar improvement over Felton? It’s not a Lin vs. Felton argument!

    98. Hubert

      37 wins was the WoW projection. Hence why they said, “Why not 37?”

      I thought SCHOENE (Kevin Pelton) made the 37 wins call? Or are they the same?

    99. JK47

      Morey signed WP48 favorite Jeff Adrien. Minimum one-year deal. Smart signing.

      Trevor Booker signed with Utah for 2 years, $10M.

      Frontcourt banger market is getting thin.

    100. GoNyGoNYGo

      I’m bookmarking this thread so that I can refer back to it in 6 months. I’m amused by the level of pessimism and cynicism here.

    101. Hubert

      On another thing I mentioned in that old AB thread that we’ve largely stopped talking about:

      I think you’re overstating it with three draft picks, though. From what I understand, one is OKC’s next year (most likely one of the last 3 picks in the draft) and the other is that silly Sacramento pick that’s protected unless it’s one of the last 5 picks in the drafts, so it’s largely worthless.

      Those two 2nd round picks did end up worthless. The OKC pick was the 2nd to last pick in the draft (we were actually able to buy a pick two spots ahead) and the rights to the sacramento pick were “extinguished” because it was inside the top 55.

      Giving up one pick for AB was terrible, but the fact that to this day we still say we gave up 3 picks is misleading. And there wasn’t any opp cost, either, GM’s knew those picks were worthless at the time.

    102. er

      if Pat Young is gone, then why not K Mart? didnt he get the surgery thats supposed to help him. KMart for 55-60 games ala d wade would be nice

    103. JK47

      It’s kinda looking like Jax is just gonna hold onto the mini-MLE and just roll with the roster as currently constituted. The team is kinda smallish and wing-heavy, and does not look like a strong defensive team. There will probably be some early-season growing pains with the triangle as well.

      But the Calderon/Felton upgrade should be worth 4-5 wins, and if the Knicks will just give Cole Aldrich the backup center minutes, that position might actually be a plus. The Knicks’ defensive personnel is not really much better this year unless Cole and Wayne Ellington get a decent number of minutes. Hopefully better coaching will elevate this defense above trainwreck status.

      One of the things that killed the Knicks’ defense last year was all the fouls; the Knicks were 29th in the league in defensive FT/FGA. This is a direct result of the Knicks’ propensity for switching and the constant mismatches that opponents were able to generate. Defensive FT/FGA is probably the easiest area of team defense to fix with better coaching.

    104. lavor postell

      One of the things that killed the Knicks’ defense last year was all the fouls; the Knicks were 29th in the league in defensive FT/FGA. This is a direct result of the Knicks’ propensity for switching and the constant mismatches that opponents were able to generate. Defensive FT/FGA is probably the easiest area of team defense to fix with better coaching.

      Great point.

      We were 24th in DRtg last year. If just by not being really fucking stupid we can get that somewhere in the 17-21 range that would be a major boost.

    105. EB

      Hell, we win 2-3 more games just by knowing the game clock and how many time outs we have left.

    106. EB

      K Mart for 55 game seems like 50 games more than he can give. Though he does kill it when playing.

    107. The Prescient Cock Jowles

      The only reason to get rid of draft picks is if you’re trying to clear space to make room for LeBron James, Chris Paul, or a comparable superstar. Any other movement of draft picks makes no sense, given how excellent they are in value.

    108. DRed

      Shawn Marion’s still out there. Would be perfect.

      He would seem to be a nice fit with this roster. With the silly money people are getting he still might want to sit tight and see if someone gives him 5-6 million. Otherwise, pickings are pretty slim for the mini-MLE. I like K-Mart as a player, and his passing ability would be perfect for the triangle, but I just don’t see him being reliable enough for a roster spot. He missed half a season with a sprained ankle. Considering that we seem to be heading into the season with a 2nd round pick as Carmelo’s backup, I’d really like us to grab Aminu. And Ed Davis, while not a real triangle guy, would at least be a different look at the 4.

    109. JK47

      Marion is probably looking to go to a real contender, and if he’s gonna take mini-MLE money I think he’d probably rather do it for a team that isn’t as far away as NYK.

    110. johnno

      Giving up second round draft picks is not a particularly big deal since they are pretty easy to replace. The Knicks and the Nets combined to acquire six second round picks in the 48 hours leading up to this year’s draft. The Knicks had to give up Chandler to get two of the picks, but the Nets got three picks for a grand total of $3 million. I wouldn’t worry about the Knicks not having any second round picks for the next few years because I’m sure that, if they want to, they can get some.

    111. DRed

      The second round picks for Bargs are not that huge of a deal except they might have been used to acquire a player who wasn’t one of the worst players in the league. Or we could have used one to move Novak, which is what Toronto did with one of the picks we dealt them. We don’t make that deal and we would have gone to the playoffs last year and we would have had more assets to improve the team this offseason. The fact that it’s not the worst trade in recent Knicks history just shows how many dumb trades we’ve made in the last 15 years.

    112. Hubert

      Giving up second round draft picks is not a particularly big deal since they are pretty easy to replace. The Knicks and the Nets combined to acquire six second round picks in the 48 hours leading up to this year’s draft. The Knicks had to give up Chandler to get two of the picks, but the Nets got three picks for a grand total of $3 million. I wouldn’t worry about the Knicks not having any second round picks for the next few years because I’m sure that, if they want to, they can get some.

      Now see, you took something I was saying and ran with it in the completely wrong direction.

      2nd round picks are very valuable. We were very stupid to give up the ones we gave up to Portland and Houston for Felton and Camby.

      But the last 5 picks of the 2nd round are virtually worthless.

      The point I was making was that the two 2nd round picks we specifically gave up were not as valuable as your usual 2nd round picks because they were both guaranteed to be in the bottom 5. In the case of one of the picks, it was literally guaranteed to be outside the top 55 because Sacramento had top 55 protection on it, and if it fell inside the top 55, our rights to it extinguished. In the case of the other pick, it was virtually guaranteed because it belonged to OKC.

    113. danvt

      I was for Bargnani at the time. I thought he was a guy with a multidimensional game. Well he is multidimensional in that he does many things poorly (for a pro athlete). I thought coach W could coach him up. I was wrong but the “I told you so’s” are kind of BS.

      I think they went for a deal that would make for cap space next summer and give them some bench support for a couple of years. You know, ten minutes of standing in the corner. Maybe get a RB or two. I sure wouldn’t do it in retrospect. Last season was a grease fire and he sure seemed like tallow. But at the time I thought it was worth a flier.

    114. Hubert

      Fuck, I was misinformed. DRed is right. I thought we gave up a 2nd round pick we had from Sacramento that had top 55 protection, but in reality we actually gave up our own 2nd round pick in 2017 in addition to our 2016 first round pick.

      Fuck me. Y’all already knew, but for me the AB trade just got worse. [hits head on desk]

    115. Robtachi

      I can’t believe we’re still even debating the Lin offer sheet. We can confirm now exactly what we already knew back then; the Knicks’ cap is still royally fucked in this, the balloon payment year of Lin’s contract. Yes, he is not worth the total value of the contract. But the fact is, matching that offer would have come with LITERALLY ZERO CONSEQUENCES WHATSOEVER to the Knicks’ salary cap situation or ability to sign other players at ANY POINT during Lin’s contract. All it would have cost was Dolan’s luxury tax money, and the idea that Lin wasn’t matched because of some born-again spendthrift flight of fancy was rendered preposterous via taking another awful contract on in the Bargnani trade. Worst of all, the Knicks lost someone that at the time was a very valuable asset without getting anything in return. The bottom line is the Knicks would be exactly the same team now, salary cap-wise, with Lin as without. Except they would have another productive rotation player.

      It was idiotic and shortsighted and mind-boggling and just so very very Knicks on so many levels. End of story.

    116. johnno

      “2nd round picks are very valuable.”
      I never said that they aren’t valuable. To the contrary, they are apparently worth about $1 million each, since that is what the Nets and Knicks paid to acquire four such picks this year, in what was supposedly a loaded draft. I imagine that, in a weak draft, you might be able to pick them up for less than $1 million.
      “We don’t make that deal and we would have gone to the playoffs last year”
      I don’t agree but, even if you are right, that doesn’t suddenly make those picks priceless. If second round picks are so unbelievably valuable, please explain how the Knicks and Nets were able to pick up six in two days?

    117. Donnie Walsh

      “I can’t believe we’re still even debating the Lin offer sheet.”

      We’re not really “debating” the Lin non-match. There was only one person at the time who thought Dolan made the right move, and that same person comes here and brings it up every couple of weeks, trying to get a pat on the back for it because Lin became a mild thorn in Morey’s side.

    118. hoolahoop

      (There’s even an exchange where Ruruland and er gang up on hooplahoop for suggesting the 2014 Knicks will win 41 games… er makes fun on him, facetiously saying “why not 37 wins?”. Hooplahoop says “maybe”. So I’m not sure who should get the credit for nailing the exact win total 10 months out. Shared credit?)

      @ Donnie Walsh: Thanks for digging that out. I didn’t even bother to read the thread because I know what I thought all along. Now, you can be sure I’ll read it.

    119. hoolahoop

      hoolahoop July 1, 2013 at 11:38 pm

      er:
      Why stop there….i say37 win team

      hoolahoop: could be.

      “er”, you scream so loud, and know so little, it’s a disgrace,
      Just want to stick this ol’ prediction – in your face!

    120. hoolahoop

      From that old thread, I quote myself – against the stream of comments:
      July 1, 2013
      hoolahoop: “What did I miss with Novack? He was the best 3-point shooter in the league and got banished overnight. So, let’s trade him for an injury prone, soft that can spread the floor???? And while we’re at it, let’s throw in some draft picks.”

      I know what Bargs is and was. Now, I’m saying something different.
      Bargs has potential. All he needs is to get his “3” to fall 1.5 times per seven shots to bring him above 40% from outside the arc. Everything else will look a little better then. He can be a good situational contributor.
      Everybody played below their ability under Woodson’s iso-ball. Everybody!
      And while I’m at it:
      Felton is going to bounce back with a much better season. He’s another guy that doesn’t suck as much as everyone thinks. Shit coach. Shit system. Brings out the worst in everyone except his pet shooter.

    121. hoolahoop

      That old Bargnani trade thread was a good read. It was the usual suspects (who are routinely wrong about everything they prognosticate) that were most pro-trade. All the people that history proves routinely correct, as expected, were disgusted by the trade and everything they said would happen did.

      DWalsh – Funny, but true.

    122. dtrickey

      Speaking of straight up marksmen, Big Jorts is back on the market. Cole in the paint, Jorts stretching the D in the corner-anyone else smell a title?

      I am all for bringing Jorts back, if not for his mystique.

    123. KnickfaninNJ

      It’s kinda looking like Jax is just gonna hold onto the mini-MLE and just roll with the roster as currently constituted.

      It does look like that, but it’s not actually what he said yesterday when interviewed. He said the roster was imbalanced with too many 2 guards and no backup for Melo and he wanted to fix that.

    124. Z-man

      Donnie, in fairness, you are misrepresented what I said then and believe now. I never said that Dolan made the “right” move, and I have said over and over again that as a fan, I hoped that he would match at the time.

      I only said that not matching was hardly the tragic no-brainer move that so many hand-wringers on this site made it out to be. First, Lin was not worth anywhere close to the money in the contract itself, let alone the luxury tax. That much is indisputable. Second, the luxury tax was in the area of $40 million. Who the fuck am I, you, or anyone else to judge whether someone should lay out $60+ million out of his pocket for a guy that is not even worth $15 million on paper? Who gives a fuck what he did in terms of paying luxury tax before or since? That has no bearing on this decision.

      Robtachi, not a single smart GM in the league, INCLUDING MOREY, would have advocated matching that bullshit contract under the same circumstances. That’s why he structured the offer the way that he did, he KNEW THEN that it would be unbelievably bad business for even Dolan to match.

      Your frustration is based on totally self-serving, illogical reasoning. It goes like this: Since I, the fan, have fallen irrationally in love with the Linsanity fairy tale, and since it doesn’t cost anything out of MY pocket for you to spend fourfold out of YOUR pocket what the player is actually worth, and since I’m spoiled because you have made so many stupid decisions in the past despite enormous luxury tax implications, why couldn’t you indulge my misguided Lin fantasy by doing exactly the same stupid shit I criticized you for in the past? Why did you pick NOW to be fiscally responsible?

      Again, why were no tears shed here when Dolan didn’t match the Landry Fields offer at the same time? Please explain that to me. Could it be that the fantasy re: Landry crashed and burned in time for Knicks fans like yourself to see things more logically?

    125. The Prescient Cock Jowles

      2nd round picks may have a price of $1M, but that speaks nothing of their value. If you strike gold with a smartly-placed pick (and for fuck’s sake Kyle “Slo-Mo Magic Johnson” Anderson was one R.C. Buford away from hitting the danger zone of non-guaranteed territory) it’s worth much, much more than $1M.

      If you strike out with a 2nd round pick, it’s got a cost of $500k. For the purpose of this discussion, pick #31 is potentially a much better value than #30 because you can bail on a bad player after year one.

      It’s bad luck for the player at #31, but great luck for the team. Mr. ephus can correct me if I’m wrong about the structure of first- and second-rounders.

    126. Donnie Walsh

      Who gives a fuck what he did in terms of paying luxury tax before or since? That has no bearing on this decision.

      I think you’re probably too smart to actually believe this. Dolan paid record amounts of luxury tax for teams that won 23 games in the past. And he turned around and paid the big tax for Bargnani just 12 months later. Letting Lin go wasn’t about luxury tax and you seem to be the only person who doesn’t understand that. I’m not sure if Dolan was reacting to Morey, or to Lin, or to Anthony, or to CAA, but the decision to not match on Lin was not a basketball decision, and it wasn’t done for long-range fiscal planning. The past and present verify that.

      Regarding Landry, I was sad when he was poached by Toronto because I liked him a lot. But his development stalled out, and his position was well stocked. Lin was a god-send PG at a time when the Knicks hadn’t had a good (and likeable!) PG in an entire generation. And their PG situation is what cost the Knicks -8 wins this year, according to some posters. And Lins production since the contract has been WAY better than Fields. So I don’t quite understand why you are even bringing Landry Fields into the conversation.

    127. DRed

      Dolan spent 30 million dollars on Larry Brown not coaching and Anucha Brown Sanders getting sexually harrassed. So fuck Jimmy Dolan if he didn’t want to spend money on the best thing that had happened to the Knicks in a decade. And then of course he pissed away all that money on Bargs anyhow.

    128. BigBlueAL

      I know anyone who the Knicks sign sucks but according to the guys on Twitter who have tweeted the news (not talking about fans or Knick beat writers) it is a pretty good signing at a fair price. Zach Lowe is someone who praised the move.

    129. Brian Cronin

      Smith is a nice pick-up. Probably not going to move the dial much in and of itself, but he’s a decent player and you can’t beat the contract length.

      I think Jackson is going to make some more moves, if only to mix and match things a bit.

    130. Brian Cronin

      I believe Smith was mentioned by some writer on ESPN recently (I forget who) as an underrated free agent. I concur.

    131. Z-man

      Donnie, there are probably 10 PGs we could have signed for less than Felton got paid (never mind Lin) that could have given us Lin’s production. Last year, he had a WS48 of .103, which was tied with our current coach. Another was Beverley, who Morey found for peanuts. So positional need has nothing to do with this argument.

      We agree that in retrospect, Felton was not the answer. But neither was Lin. So Lin vs. Felton has nothing to do with this argument.

      And re: the luxury tax, it doesn’t matter what Dolan’s reasoning was (and your insinuations about his reasoning are all conjecture.) It’s about whether any “reasonable” GM/owner would have or should have matched the offer sheet. I contend that nearly every GM/owner that you consider to be reasonable would have either NOT matched for Lin, or would have at least agonized over the decision. Clearly, Morey would not have matched, as he didn’t match Parsons now. It was hardly the no-brainer you continue to make it out to be, unless you are arrogant enough to think that Morey has no brain.

    132. Z-man

      On the other hand, if you are saying that Dolan should have matched because he should have conceded that the Knicks weren’t smart enough to find a cheap replacement for Lin’s meager production (as Morey almost immediately did with Beverley) and that $50 million was a reasonable price for the luxury of being dumb and lazy, I see your point.

    133. Z-man

      DRed, no problem with you feeling that way, so long as you understand that it is self-indulgent and irrational.

    134. johnno

      @144 — of course you can strike gold with a 2 nd round pick and they are low risk gambles, which I assume is why the NY teams made 6 such picks this year. I just don’t think it’s worth losing sleep over trading away 2nd round picks since they are so easy and cheap to re acquire if there is a guy you want to draft.

    135. DRed

      Jason Smith is an inefficient offensive player, who is below average at rebounding, below average at passing, below average with steals, is foul prone, stands 7′ tall and takes loads of long range 2 point shots. And hasn’t played more than 40 games in 3 years. What am I missing? This guy sounds like middle class man’s Bargnani.

    136. JK47

      Jason Smith had an off year last year; before that he was headed on an upward trajectory. He’s kind of the opposite of Bargs on the defensive end: not good at on-ball defense but a smart, hardworking team defender and “glue guy.” Doesn’t rebound or score efficiently, but could possibly fill a key role in the triangle– the center has to be able to consistently catch the ball and make simple passes.

      He is also a great screen setter, which is an underrated skill. Way better in this department than Bargs and Amar’e. All in all Smith does a lot of little things that don’t show up in box scores, and I think he has some hidden value because of that.

    137. DRed

      I believe Smith was mentioned by some writer on ESPN recently (I forget who) as an underrated free agent. I concur.

      “He’s only taken just 13 3-point attempts in the last three seasons (connecting on only one), but he’s shot 241-of-504 (48 percent) on long 2-point attempts (16 feet or greater), a phenomenal percentage. With a little player development, there’s no reason to believe he can’t extend his range to at least corner 3-point range, which greatly improves the kind of space he can create on the floor. For that reason alone, he’s worth the investment at bargain-basement pricing in the hopes he can turn into something more valuable, as we’ve seen recently that shooting is going at a premium.”

    138. Kahnzy

      “He’s only taken just 13 3-point attempts in the last three seasons (connecting on only one), but he’s shot 241-of-504 (48 percent) on long 2-point attempts (16 feet or greater), a phenomenal percentage.

      Was this review done by Amar’e?

    139. MSA

      Add a couple of 3PA to the article above and we could be talking about Bargnani.

      Why all Knicks signings must be surrounded by optimism that player X in the right enviroment will became a good player?

      I guess that now that PJ is here, it will only get worse.

    140. Z-man

      What’s his nickname, J-Unblemished?

      Smith had a torn ACL in his left knee in summer 2008 and cartilage damage in his right knee in January 2014. Seems like a decent backup big, whatever. And we were gonna sign Pau with that money? I guess you’d call that a slight drop-off.

    141. Kahnzy

      Why all Knicks signings must be surrounded by optimism that player X in the right enviroment will became a good player?

      The craziest thing about that is that we’ve been one of the worst environments in the entire league for the past 15+ years.

    142. ephus

      ICYMI

      Carmelo Anthony’s contract. 5 years/124 million
      ETO on final year.
      No trade clause.

      Carmelo left 5 million on table. 1.25 million less than Max raise year 2.
      22.5/22.9/24.6/26.2/27.9 (my imputed #s)

    143. DRed

      Can’t be too bothered by the NTC. If we suck it’s likely Melo will pout a demand a trade anyhow, and if Melo sucks it’s not likely anyone is going to want to trade for him.

    144. ephus

      The issue on the NTC is that a player can essentially name his next team. Takes away all leverage for outgoing team.

    145. Brian Cronin

      Yeah, DRed, the no-trade clause is huge because Melo can screw the Knicks over one last time if they want to trade him but he doesn’t want the team he’s dealt to to be too hurt by the deal (a la the opposite of his trade to New York).

      That said, come on, we all knew it would be included, so it’s not a big deal in that regard. I had come to terms with Melo getting pretty much everything he possibly could get a year ago (while I hoped that Melo would surprise me with the discount, though).

    146. BigBlueAL

      Just saw the video of Jason Smith flagrant fouling the crap out of Blake Griffin. Forgot that was him who did that lol.

    147. ephus

      Yes, BBA. I put that in my original post.

      If Carmelo opts out, the odds are really good that the first four years of the contract will have been a success.

    148. Brian Cronin

      If Carmelo opts out, the odds are really good that the first four years of the contract will have been a success.

      Definitely.

    149. GoNyGoNYGo

      @169

      Smith had a torn ACL in his left knee in summer 2008 and cartilage damage in his right knee in January 2014. S

      $3.3 m – 1 year contract….for that and 27 min, 9.7 ppg, 5.8 rpg??
      What am I missing? Maybe it’s all we can find.

    150. Brian Cronin

      On a side note, Im really gonna miss Derek Jeter.

      Stupid AL better win so he can get the MVP.

    151. max fisher-cohen

      Regarding the no trade clause, in the world I wish existed, Jackson would have cornered Melo into re-signing by preventing him from getting his $s in CHI because he wanted to re-sign him and then auction him off to the highest bidder this season, before there’s too much risk of a decline. Locked up for 4+ years, you would probably get some desperate small market team willing to gamble on him and pay a high price — very different market from this summer’s, where Melo could refuse any destination he didn’t like.

      In reality, I doubt the Knicks ever would trade Anthony unless he demanded it or Anthony regressed to the point that we had the opportunity to attach first round picks to him on the way out. I’m sure Dolan and Jackson agreed on that before Jackson signed his giant contract.

    152. lavor postell

      I like that people keep assuming Phil is going to start trading picks and young players even though all he’s done since becoming president is add draft picks, a young player in Larkin in his 2nd year in the league and rebuff trade offers for Shump.

      Not a huge fan of Jason Smith, but his game seems like a decent Triangle fit and I doubt there are a lot of guys out there that are going to move the needle willing to take a 1-year MMLE offer. Worst case scenario he sucks horribly or gets injured and we’re off the hook at the end of the season.

    153. BigBlueAL

      Jeter was All-Star Game MVP in 2000 so not that big a deal if he doesnt win it tonight.

    154. Totes McGoats

      Somebody help me understand the Jason Smith signing. No..i’m not knocking it. I trust Phil’s hoop acumen and I see how Smith’s skillset fits in the triangle. He doesn’t offer that much in the way of rebounding/defense. But he definitely fits a role. So my question is what does this mean?
      Is Phil planning on releasing Dalembert to get the extra cap relief now?
      Does he have a deal for Bargs? Kinda roster redundant those 2.
      Does Tyler have a role? I’d hope so because we need more rebounding.

      I’m also wondering more about the backcourt. The more I see TH2’s confidence skyrocketing and the improvements he’s making, I am becoming less amenable to moving him. Especially with Pau not being available. No real point in finding a taker for STAT or Bargs financially. So…is there a market for Ellington? I really like the fact we have a chance to develop an interesting dynamic on the wings with TH2-Shump-Early-Thanny. I’ve read that JR’s healthy, but I doubt there’s a market for him. Maybe by January if he’s playing well. But I don’t want him to take minutes away from Shump and TH2 in this system. But I also wouldn’t wanna dump JR for the sake of dumping him if he’s locked in. With Fish thinking playoffs this season, I don’t think a 1st round exit should trump developing our youngins around Melo- so I’m torn on moving JR if 6th Man of the Year JR shows up. Either way we definitely need to move a Guard..Preferably for a defender or rebounder.

    155. hoolahoop

      If Carmelo opts out, the odds are really good that the first four years of the contract will have been a success.

      He may opt out if the team sucks, or he’s not playing well and blames it on the system, or the some other reason pertaining to things not going well for him.

    156. hoolahoop

      Carmelo Anthony’s contract. 5 years/124 million

      One of the worst contracts in the league (from teams perspective).

    157. DRed

      One of the worst contracts in the league (from teams perspective).

      But just think how that contract is going to fit in the triangle

    158. BigBlueAL

      I mentioned the other day an article by Doolittle on ESPN.com that mentioned Melo’s WARP projections for the next 5 years along with how much teams are paying per 1 win in WARP value that Melo’s projected salary value was over 130m for the next 5 years.

    159. Brian Cronin

      While the Silver article wasn’t bad, per se, there sure were a whole lot of “just trust me on this” numbers being used.

    160. hoolahoop

      According to Nate Silver, Carmelo’s contract almost perfectly captures his value. True value is 5/122.

      He uses a lot of convoluted analysis mixed with a lot of his personal opinion, and still deducts:
      “a first-round exit from the playoffs. . . Get ready for more of the same.”
      “NBA teams win championships by getting players at discounts instead — and Anthony probably won’t qualify. ”

      Whether his analysis is right or wrong does not matter. If the last team standing was the Bulls at $60/4, the knicks should have paid much less than they did.

    161. lavor postell

      One of the worst contracts in the league (from teams perspective).

      Sure. Yet we have evidence at least 2 other franchises (Lakers and Houston) offered him max contracts. I have a feeling if Melo wants a trade to a contender at some point we’d be able to accomodate him and recoup some assets.

      According to Nate Silver, Carmelo’s contract almost perfectly captures his value. True value is 5/122.

      Nah I’m sure hoolahoop on KB has a better grasp of contract value than Nate Silver, Phil Jackson or Daryl Morey.

    162. JK47

      If his contract captures his true value, that still doesn’t make it a good signing. You want guys who are going to outperform their contracts, and there aren’t many players in the league who can outperform a max contract.

    163. lavor postell

      @BC

      Isn’t almost anybody’s valuations of contract value or a player worth going to involve “just trust me valuations”? I’ll trust Nate Silver’s calculations over most people.

    164. ephus

      @JK47

      You are right that a team’s easiest road to a championship is for players to outperform their contracts. With the huge payroll the Knicks have amassed, if everyone performed to contract level, they are a fifty-five win team. But I highly doubt STAT performs to 23.5 million or Bargs performs to 12 million.

    165. Brian Cronin

      Isn’t almost anybody’s valuations of contract value or a player worth going to involve “just trust me valuations”? I’ll trust Nate Silver’s calculations over most people.

      Most people show their math. Silver here just introduced a brand-new version of PECOTA that he invented for this article and just says that it is some mixture of various stats.

      That said, his overall thesis seems sound enough (that you need surplus value to win in the NBA), I just didn’t like how the stats he was using seemed to be in flux and ill-defined.

    166. hoolahoop

      Yet we have evidence at least 2 other franchises (Lakers and Houston) offered him max contracts.

      @ lavor postell — You live in an alternate universe. The Lakers offer was off the table after about five minutes. Houston offered much less, and that was off the table in about five seconds.

      Nah I’m sure hoolahoop on KB has a better grasp of contract value than Nate Silver, Phil Jackson or Daryl Morey.

      Some people can think for themselves. And others take what their superiors tell them as gospel.
      Nate Silver is nobody to me. And the great PJ was incredible at getting super elite players to coexist and buy into his system.
      Negotiating deals is a talent he’s never proven to be elite at. I have!!!
      Melo could have been retained for less money – giving the knicks a better chance for success for the next five years.

    167. ruruland

      I was wrong and will always be disappointed that Melo didn’t take an unprecedented discount. It should be reiterated, however, as you can read in that excellent P&T piece in this thread, that Melo taking $100 million would have had no impact on the Knicks landing a max player, and negligible impact on roster construction.

      An impactful discount would have been around 80-90 million over 5 years. Easy for me to say Melo needed to do that, and I still think at some level he wanted to an may end up deeply regretting not, but it’s hard to say he SHOULD have, especially when the Knicks were so soft in negotiations.

    168. ruruland

      Hoola, read that P&T piece. Melo needed to take a monster discount for the Knicks to have greater leverage and flexibility moving forward.

    169. ruruland

      “He can also take tough shots when his team doesn’t have many alternatives — last season, 42 percent of Anthony’s field goal attempts came with eight or fewer seconds on the shot clock compared to a league average of 31 percent.1 In those situations, shooting efficiency drops drastically — but Anthony’s numbers held up well, and he was bailing out his team from a desperation attempt or a shot-clock violation.2″

      Finally an authority to confirm what I’ve been saying for so long.

    170. lavor postell

      ou live in an alternate universe. The Lakers offer was off the table after about five minutes. Houston offered much less, and that was off the table in about five seconds.

      Five minutes? The offer was on the table for about a week before they got word they were out and used their cap space to take on Lin and acquire a first round pick from Houston. That deal was on the table for about a week.

      The Houston offer was exactly what they offered Bosh. 4 yrs/$88m.

      Negotiating deals is a talent he’s never proven to be elite at. I have!!!

      No, but maximizing talent and upping players’ efficiency has been something Phil Jackson’s been quite adept at doing in his career. If he believes that Carmelo in the Triangle can be an elite player I’m going to roll with Big Chief Triangle on that.

      Oh you’ve negotiated NBA contracts? Didn’t realize we had an NBA front office executive posting on KB.

      Also to be clear I think Melo is a great player, but not necessarily a transcendent player. I think the dice roll is that Jackson thinks he can elevate Carmelo’s game and lure another star to New York to pair with him. He also believes that he has the ability to surround Melo and another star with enough supporting talent through draft picks, trades and cheaper free agent signings to compete for a championship.

      Melo’s not the easiest guy to build around so it’s obviously a risk, but rebuilding through the draft is just as much a crap shoot, if not more so as Sacramento, Minnesota, Cleveland, etc. can tell you.

      No matter what path we chose a title isn’t guaranteed. It never is. You have to hope you can put yourself close enough to contention and get have a little luck to push you all the way there.

    171. Brian Cronin

      The P&T article was certainly very interesting, however I take issue with it on a few points revolving JR, Shump and cap holds.

      Before I begin, it is very fair to say that Melo giving any discount is better than nothing. Every little bit helps, which is what I’m getting at with the below comments…

      First JR – does anyone think JR is really going to opt in for 2015-16? Ben Gordon just got a two-year deal for $4.5 million a year. Is JR really going to opt in for that last year of $6.3 million? I don’t see that happening at all (even if he wants to stay a Knick, as the Knicks would have his full Bird rights). And if he does opt out, the Knicks would need roughly another $3 million to keep his cap hold for 2014-15 while making room for a max free agent, money they won’t have under the current Melo pay cut and money that they theoretically could have under the $115 million contract (it’s close there, as well). And if you think that JR opting out is a good thing and they should just let him go, well, then there’s a chunk of cap space right there that becomes more valuable with the $115 million contract than the current pay cut.

      Second Shump – the flexibility issue comes up with Shump, too, in the sense that the difference between the current contract and the $115 contract is the difference between trading Shump for a pick actually making a difference in the cap or it not making a difference. On the current contract, they can trade Shump for a pick and it doesn’t give them really much more than the room exception. With the $115 contract, they can renounce Shump and get more than the full mid-level. As we have seen this year, the full mid-level can get you an actual good player, let alone more than the mid-level.

      Third – I don’t believe he was fully factoring in all the cap holds necessary (for the empty roster spots), which would not be a lot of money, but at least $1 million, which ends up being major money when you’re playing on the fringes and that’s obviously an area where the $115 would have an impact over the current pay cut (to wit, under the current set-up, going by his numbers, I don’t even think the Knicks have the full max to offer under the current pay cut, presuming Shump is retained).

      So I think it is wrong to say that the Knicks don’t gain any real flexibility in just the difference between the current pay cut and the $115 contract. And the piece itself even does agree that the $100 million contract would open up some notable flexibility, but that’s kind of obvious, ya know?

      While I think the piece understates the flexibility the different discount rates would give the Knicks, I thought it did a really nice job explaining how surprisingly little cap room the Knicks will have next season and especially pointing out just how much cap flexibility the Knicks lost by simply adding Calderon’s salary over Felton’s. Dang, that $3.4 million is kind of jarring when you look at it like that.

    172. Brian Cronin

      By the way, did y’all see Mike Miller turn down a much larger offer to join Lebron in Cleveland? Dang, those dudes really are friends, aren’t they? It makes the decision of the Heat to amnesty Miller look even worse now, doesn’t it?

      Its kind of an odd friendship, though. “Come play with me in Cleveland! You’ll have to take a pay cut, but it will be worth it for you to be able to play with me! What’s that? Couldn’t I take a little less money so that you could make a little more? Well, yes, but, come on, what’s a few million between friends? So long as they’re on your side, of course!”

    173. Brian Cronin

      Another interesting thing about the P&T article combined with the Silver article is that it really does spotlight just how crazy hard it is to put together a good team through free agency when you’re not signing younger max players. When you get guys in their 30s, not only are you getting the downside of their career but they also inherently make more money than younger max guys.

      It really does make the whole thing look so…well…daunting.

      On the bright side, the Knicks are in New York, which will always give them a step up with free agents on the Charlotte, Orlando, Milwaukee and Denvers of the world.

      That said, I suspect that Jackson will eschew Gasol next season for that very reason, that building around two max guys in the early 30s (without a significant supporting staff) is not a recipe for success. I think he might look to sign multiple guys instead and build around Melo solely. I have (perhaps unrealistic) faith that Jackson can pull that off.

    174. Farfa

      As I already said weeks ago, the Spurs have hired their next Popovich. Ettore Messina is that good. They keep on doing the right thing. Amazing.

    175. Farfa

      And Lance to Charlotte. I don’t know if it’s a good or bad thing. Still, at 27mln/3yrs with 3rd year as a team option it’s not that bad.

    176. iserp

      As I already said weeks ago, the Spurs have hired their next Popovich. Ettore Messina is that good. They keep on doing the right thing. Amazing.

      Messina has coached some of the most expensive teams in europe and has generally underperformed (no cap limit in Europe). I don’t want to understimate what he did with Virtus, but since then, he has not done anything extraordinary.

    177. Farfa

      From Wikipedia:

      As coach:
      4× Euroleague champion (1998, 2001, 2006, 2008)
      Cup Winners’ Cup champion (1990)
      2× Euroleague Coach of the Year (2006, 2008)
      4× Italian League champion (1993, 1998, 2001, 2003)
      7× Italian Cup champion (1990, 1999, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005)
      5× Russian League champion (2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2013)
      2× Russian Cup champion (2006, 2007)
      2× VTB United League champion (2013, 2014)

      While it’s true that since his stint on the Lakers bench as an assistant for Mike Brown he’s not won that much (in terms of relevant European trophies), the guy has won something every single year he’s been on a european bench since 2001, save for his unfortunate gig with Real Madrid (and that team was the equivalent of the Brooklyn Nets: they spent like crazy, but never cared much about actual quality of the players hired).

    178. Brian Cronin

      And Lance to Charlotte. I don’t know if it’s a good or bad thing. Still, at 27mln/3yrs with 3rd year as a team option it’s not that bad.

      He better be just, like, the world’s biggest asshole, because otherwise, that is crazy by Indiana.

      The deal even includes a team option for the third year!! How do you not beat that contract, Indy?!

      Here’s my issue with Charlotte – is Marvin Williams seriously their starting 4?

    179. Z-man

      Weird that Lance took virtually the same money. Maybe he thinks he can re-up in 3 years. Whatever, looks like Indiana will fall back. The EC doesn’t look any better, just more balanced, although Chicago has to be clear favorites.

    180. Brian Cronin

      Clear favorites is a bit tough for me, if only because we can’t know how Rose’s knees are yet, can we?

      If he’s healthy, then yes, they’re clearly the head of the class. If not, I think they’re right back with teams like Indy, Washington, Cleveland (depending on who else they acquire) and Toronto.

      Toronto is interesting since they brought everyone back, the only team that did so among the top three teams in the East, so maybe they’ll be good again.

      All said and done, the Knicks should definitely be able to get into the playoff race this season.

    181. njasdjdh

      All said and done, the Knicks should definitely be able to get into the playoff race this season.

      IND, CHI, MIA, TOR, WAS, CHA are all still clear playoff teams. ATL was already a playoff team and should get more out of Horford. CLE is clearly a playoff team now. That’s 8. Then there’s Brooklyn, which I think we might be better than, but perhaps they are able to smoothly incorporate Brook Lopez. On top of that cursory glance at the standings, the early projections have the Knicks roster in the mid to upper 30s for wins. It’s possible the Knicks get into the playoff race, but “definitely” seems strong.

    182. The Prescient Cock Jowles

      How is Miami clearly a playoff team? They just lost the very best player in the league and hobbled to a disappointing 54 wins last year.

      Sorry, but there’s nothing that suggests we’re about to see the ’94 Bulls in Miami this year. They’re a Wade injury away from the lottery, and a Chris Andersen injury away from the cellar.

      You can give Bosh a max contract, but that doesn’t mean he’s worth that in wins.

    Comments are closed.