Statistical Analysis. Humor. Knicks.

Tuesday, July 29, 2014

Knicks Morning News (2014.07.14)

  • [New York Times] Sports Briefing | Pro Basketball: Lin Is Traded to Lakers (Mon, 14 Jul 2014 04:05:43 GMT)
    Point guard Jeremy Lin joined the Los Angeles Lakers on Sunday in a trade with the Houston Rockets, who also gave up first- and second-round draft picks in 2015 for the rights to the European center Sergei Lishchuk.

  • [New York Times] Sports of The Times: With Return of Anthony, Knicks Quietly Edge Ahead (Mon, 14 Jul 2014 01:00:24 GMT)
    Retaining Carmelo Anthony represents a down payment on the present, while leaving the door ajar to a brighter future a year from now.

  • [New York Times] Statement by Player Erases the Last Doubt (Mon, 14 Jul 2014 00:49:24 GMT)
    With a 173-word statement on his website, Anthony smothered any remaining uncertainty about his plans and cemented his position as one of the team’s leaders in the years ahead.

  • [New York Times] Anthony, a ‘Knick at Heart,’ Stays in New York (Mon, 14 Jul 2014 00:41:12 GMT)
    Carmelo Anthony wanted to be a Knick a few years ago, and nothing has changed now.

  • [New York Daily News] Melo makes it official, announces plan to return to Knicks (Mon, 14 Jul 2014 03:01:03 GMT)
    Carmelo Anthony has made it official. Anthony announced Sunday morning — below the headline “MY CITY, MY HEART” on his website, thisismelo.com — that he will be returning to the Knicks.

  • 144 comments on “Knicks Morning News (2014.07.14)

    1. Totes McGoats

      OK Melo has gone too far. I think he’s an excellent player. But..why try to publicly set yourself up as a hero? I’m gonna try and not knock the deal he signed too hard, because he’s earned it. Overpaid or not, that’s how the market has been set up. Sure…stars have taken less in smaller markets for a shot at immortality. But if his deal gives a little flexibility in the next, and probably last couple years of his prime, then I really have no qualms about his new pact. The statement was a bit much. You won’tmake yourself a hero by stating that you forced a trade to NY and re-signed during free agency. No..u make yourself a hero by giving your home team THE BEST shot at winning. Win home..be forever. My only real issue right now.

    2. Farfa

      You won’tmake yourself a hero by stating that you forced a trade to NY and re-signed during free agency. No..u make yourself a hero by giving your home team THE BEST shot at winning.

      You make yourself a hero embodying your team’s heart and soul. We had many heroes who never had much talent, but we liked them because if was evident they were one of us. Melo seems lacking empathy with fans, so as long as he’s winning he gets revered, but as the losses pile up he gets more and more reviled. He’s too difficult to like, whereas we got excited with Jeremy Lin, Steve Novak, Jared Jeffries (!), Renaldo Balkman (!), Tyson Chandler, Iman Shumpert, Cole Aldrich. NY can love its stars, but I don’t think it can ever really love Melo. He’s going to be liked, respected, yes (if we go consistently to the playoffs), but loved… he has way to go.

    3. The Prescient Cock Jowles

      I don’t know about y’all, but I too have an artist-commissioned self-portrait hanging above my fireplace. I too am wearing sunglasses and surrounded by abstractly-shaped colors. I too am Carmelo.

    4. danvt

      “He’s too difficult to like, whereas we got excited with Jeremy Lin, Steve Novak, Jared Jeffries (!), Renaldo Balkman (!), Tyson Chandler, Iman Shumpert, Cole Aldrich. NY can love its stars, but I don’t think it can ever really love Melo. He’s going to be liked, respected, yes (if we go consistently to the playoffs), but loved… he has way to go.”

      Probably true but really unfair. I think Melo is analogous to Eli Manning. He just get’s pilloried for not being Willis Reed (see what I did there?). Remember the whole, “is Eli as good as Brady?” controversy? Well, FUK NO he ain’t. He’s an effing train wreck sometimes. But he’s our train wreck, and in some big situations he’s shed some tacklers and made some of the biggest clutch throws in NFL history. It helped him very much that Justin Tuck and Osi et al nearly decapitated Brady in two Superbowls. David Tyree made the unlikely grab. Plaxico was dominant. The point is, in the right situation he did his job very well. As well as anyone could have, and arguably better than Brady in those two games.

      I think Melo is good enough to be our “starting QB”. Putting the rest of the team around him is the key and I don’t think this contract kills that possibility. Look at what happened to the great LBJ without his healthy wingman Wade. Biggest point differential in the history of the finals. Is Duncan better than LBJ right now?

    5. DRed

      We should take a run at signing Ed Davis on the cheap. We could really use another big who can block shots and rebound.

    6. johnno

      “I don’t know about y’all, but I too have an artist-commissioned self-portrait hanging above my fireplace. I too am wearing sunglasses and surrounded by abstractly-shaped colors. I too am Carmelo.”
      I don’t know about y’all, but I am not the slightest bit surprised — or put off — to learn that a professional athlete has a big ego. I think that the vast majority of them have huge egos and the humble star is the exception rather than the rule. Why wouldn’t they have huge egos? They’ve been stroked by everyone since they were kids, they are in their twenties and are paid millions and millions of dollars a year, they are idolized everywhere (and knuckleheads like us spend way too much time thinking, reading and blogging about them) and they are the best in the entire world at their chosen profession. I realize that LeBron is the best player on the planet but, before he had ever won anything, he was referring to himself as “King James” (it was his twitter name) and had “Chosen One” tattooed across his back.

    7. er

      “He’s too difficult to like, whereas we got excited with Jeremy Lin, Steve Novak, Jared Jeffries (!), Renaldo Balkman (!), Tyson Chandler, Iman Shumpert, Cole Aldrich. NY can love its stars, but I don’t think it can ever really love Melo. He’s going to be liked, respected, yes (if we go consistently to the playoffs), but loved… he has way to go.”

      And here lies part of why other fans think Knick fans are delusional

    8. DRed

      I also wouldn’t mind trying to get Al Farouq Aminu to NY. Can’t shoot for shit, but he’s a versatile front court defender and he’s still young enough that he has some upside.

    9. Z-man

      “I don’t know about y’all, but I too have an artist-commissioned self-portrait hanging above my fireplace. I too am wearing sunglasses and surrounded by abstractly-shaped colors. I too am Carmelo.”

      I imagine that Melo anonymously posts on sports blogs under tags such as “The Prescient God of Isoball” and “Contractus Maximus, who commands your respect.”

    10. danvt

      I also think people are selling short how close we actually were two years ago. This was basically without Amar’e. Amar’e is the story of the last rebuild, not Melo. Yes, Melodrama 1 left the cupboard bare and we all miss The Rooster but if Amar’e plays to the back of his bubble gum card no one is complaining. And we still were close, despite it.

      Bargs is the only real mistake management has made since 2010 and that had more disastrous consequences than anyone imagined. Even the haters were pretty confident that he wouldn’t kill the team utterly. He was perceived as a bench player. An alternative to Novak not Chandler. Then Kemba rolls over Tyson’s leg and he’s our starting center. Well, the coach and GM paid with their jobs and now we have a guy in place with a pretty good pedigree to run the show.

      Isiah is gone, sweeties. It was just a nightmare. Go back to sleep. It’s gonna be OK.

    11. Z-man

      We have a glut at the SG position. I’d like to see Phil pull of a deal for JR in return for an expiring big. Not that I think he’s overpaid, but his contract does gum up the works for next year and he has a single-digit B-Ball IQ. He’s got to be trade-able on that deal, no?

    12. GoNyGoNYGo

      Davnt,
      Bargnani was a mistake, pure and simple. It was a huge brain-fart. Even so, he was misused by Woodson who only wanted him as a stretch 4. When Chandler went down, Bargnani (who, I’ve learned, is not the sharpest knife in the drawer) had not learned how to defend the paint in Woodson’s system. So he became the replacement for Chandler in the middle and suddenly point guards were driving the lane with abandon. Felton couldn’t stay in front of them and Bargnani was a deer in the headlights. We did see him start to figure it out just before he was lost for the season. I just don’t hold out that much hope for him but it’s a contract year for him. Maybe he’ll realize that he has to step up his game.

      Please allow me some delusions.

    13. Hubert

      I think you’re talking a lot of sense, danvt. Though, unlike Jowles and others, I have a tendency to lose my rationality once we’re locked into something. I was anti-signing Melo for the max all summer, for instance, but now I’m just going to suck it up and look for the bright side.

      And you kind of nailed the bright side in your two posts. The Eli analogy is a good one. Eli is never going to be Aaron Rodgers and Melo is never going to be LeBron. But like Eli, if you put the right pieces around Melo we can have a decent team. And two years ago, we came really close to doing that. That team was never going to beat the Heat or Spurs, but it would have beaten Indiana, in my opinion, with anyone other than our simpleton coach. And we’re not that far off from being able to put together a better version of that team again. And there won’t be a Miami any more.

    14. Hubert

      I imagine that Melo anonymously posts on sports blogs under tags such as “The Prescient God of Isoball” and “Contractus Maximus, who commands your respect.”

      No offense, Jowles, but Z-man got you there. Your profile names are every bit the equal of the self-commissioned portrait hanging in melo’s living room.

      Well done, Z-man.

    15. ess-dog

      I would love to create some space with a Bargs/Shump trade to Philly. Then let JR and Jr. duke it out for the starting SG spot. Smith is actually well suited for the triangle, if (you know the rest.) He’s a good passer, can shoot, drive, handle the ball… but he’s JR.
      We could also boost his trade value and then trade him mid season if TH2 looks to be improving.
      I’m fine with a Calderon/JR/Melo/Amare/Cole lineup, at least for now.

    16. The Prescient Cock Jowles

      Sorry man, but I still think I could do a better job of picking players than many of the GMs in the league. Especially considering that PPG is ostensibly still a primary factor in how much money a guy gets paid.

      I may troll lightly, but I’m serious when I say that the league is run by idiots. Gordon Hayward just got maxed. Gordon Hayward.

    17. stratomatic

      We have a glut at the SG position. I’d like to see Phil pull of a deal for JR in return for an expiring big. Not that I think he’s overpaid, but his contract does gum up the works for next year and he has a single-digit B-Ball IQ. He’s got to be trade-able on that deal, no?

      At one point I thought he was untradeable, but now I think we can move him before the trade deadline. After the horrid start, he finished the season better. If you look at some of the salaries being tossed around now, his contract doesn’t look too bad. If he behaves himself this year, he’s gone this year.

    18. DRed

      Jr’s got a long way to go before he’s a viable NBA starter. He doesn’t play D, pass or rebound. Otherwise he’s pretty good though.

    19. GoNyGoNYGo

      @19

      I may troll lightly, but I’m serious when I say that the league is run by idiots. Gordon Hayward just got maxed. Gordon Hayward.

      Which is why my $250M number for Melo (if the NBA had no dollar and years cap) was not insane. All it takes is one moron.

      @18

      I would love to create some space with a Bargs/Shump trade to Philly.

      What are you getting back? Better yet, what else do we have to give up? No way I do this for cap space. I would rather let them expire.

    20. Farfa

      Melo discount for 2015 (if what Berman says is true): 1,7mln. Wow. Enough to add one third of Caron Butler.

    21. Hubert

      I would love to create some space with a Bargs/Shump trade to Philly. Then let JR and Jr. duke it out for the starting SG spot.

      Shump remains the only player on our team who has been a plus on both offense and defense at any point in the last three years. We really need more two-way players, not to get rid of our only one.

      The unfortunate thing about Shump is his contract expires this year and the market for players like him just exploded. I really wish we would talk about extending him right now for something like 4 years, $20 million. If that doesn’t work, then we need to trade him, but I would only do it for a pick or to get another two way player on a better contract back. It’s the one dimensional guys like JR & Hardaway we should be more open to trading. Too many one-way players was our downfall in 2013 (other than Coach)

    22. Farfa

      Shump remains the only player on our team who has been a plus on both offense and defense

      Apart from when he’s streaking toward an open layup. But I totally agree: before we trade Shumpert, and unless he demands more than 5mln/yrs, let’s explore the market for JR and THJ.

    23. er

      Melo discount for 2015 (if what Berman says is true): 1,7mln. Wow. Enough to add one third of Caron Butler.

      –Phil suggests that Melo did take less money. “He did exactly what we asked him to,” & that it may provide a little more wiggle room in 2015.

      — Chris Herring (@HerringWSJ) July 13, 2014

      And you do know 30 mil is coming off for Barg and Stat right?

      sorry 35 million

    24. Farfa

      Not a knock on Melo. But I wonder how shaving less than 2 million dollars is “exactly what you ask him to”.

    25. er

      Look, this is why i wouldnt have taken a cent less than max. Where does it stop? if he took 4 million, would it have been a deep enough cut? 5,6 mill? Taking less is taking less, but when you have a set of people who all want you to take a certain number thats good for them you cant win. Thats why i would have played like Lebron and said gimmie all your money

    26. ess-dog

      Shump remains the only player on our team who has been a plus on both offense and defense

      Say what??

    27. stratomatic

      I would love to create some space with a Bargs/Shump trade to Philly.

      IMO that would be an error. The Knicks need assets going into next year in case they can’t get a FA to come directly and need to do a S&T. If they can’t get a FA at all, they need assets to possibly roll up into a higher quality players via trade.

      There is no long term upside to getting rid of Amare or Bargs now by giving up an asset when they will be gone next year for free and we’ll still have the assets.

      If we are worried about the cost of re-signing him and how that may impact our ability to pick a couple of all star quality players next year, then trade him for a 1st round pick. But we need that asset.

    28. Farfa

      @29

      Yes, and this is why it’s evident that Phil Jackson believes that Melo is a fundamental piece of his roster. Not that I agree, but I didn’t agree with Kobe chucking fadeaway turnaround elbow jumpers either, and the Lakers still won 2 titles. So, I guess, ringzzz.

      But seriously (and again: not a knock on Melo. He did what was best for him, and that’s ok), I hope Phil isn’t trying to sell us on Melo being a great person because he took that discount.

    29. ephus

      Carmelo took a discount that should allow the Knicks to make a Max offer to a free agent with 7-9 years experience next summer. That is the Love/Mark Gasol/Aldridge/Rondo cohort. My guess is that Phil is targeting Gasol, who seems to have a great skillset for the Triangle.

    30. Hubert

      From some schmuck on Grantland:

      In the remarkably eloquent, remarkably mature essay James posted Friday on SI.com announcing his return to his home, he wrote, “In Northeast Ohio, nothing is given. Everything is earned. You work for what you have.”

      Really, that’s nothing but pure tripe. Working for what you have is an Ohio thing? Does he think I live in New York and I just wake up and someone leaves my daily $500 allowance on my kitchen table?

      I never rooted against the Heat like so many did after the decision but oh boy am I going to root real hard for the Cavs to never win a damn thing with LeBron. My two favorite teams are going to be the Knicks and whoever is playing Cleveland in the playoffs.

      And if they don’t manage to steal Kevin Love, I doubt they’ll ever manage to put the right teammates around him, just like they did the first time.

    31. Farfa

      Carmelo took a discount that should allow the Knicks to make a Max offer to a free agent with 7-9 years experience next summer. That is the Love/Mark Gasol/Aldridge/Rondo cohort. My guess is that Phil is targeting Gasol, who seems to have a great skillset for the Triangle.

      Probably so. But I’m not sure about how those 1,7 mln dollars make all that difference. Using the stretch provision on JR would have done the trick anyway. But your faith in BCT is really reassuring, ephus (absolutely not sarcastic. You’re a quiet but strong voice of reason in here).

    32. Hubert

      Carmelo took a discount that should allow the Knicks to make a Max offer to a free agent with 7-9 years experience next summer. That is the Love/Mark Gasol/Aldridge/Rondo cohort. My guess is that Phil is targeting Gasol, who seems to have a great skillset for the Triangle.

      He does, but is Marc Gasol really worth a max contract? I assumed (hoped?) you could get him for less, closer to what we were paying Tyson Chandler. And then we could use the rest of the cap space to sign a decent two-way player who is worth more than the MLE.

    33. Farfa

      Really, that’s nothing but pure tripe. Working for what you have is an Ohio thing? Does he think I live in New York and I just wake up and someone leaves my daily $500 allowance on my kitchen table?

      I never rooted against the Heat like so many did after the decision but oh boy am I going to root real hard for the Cavs to never win a damn thing with LeBron. My two favorite teams are going to be the Knicks and whoever is playing Cleveland in the playoffs.

      Ha! I guess The Decisihome rubbed you the wrong way, exactly how The Decision rubbed me 4 years ago. I won’t agree with your stance, but I feel you. Again, not sarcastic.

    34. ephus

      Since the salary cap looks to be increasing so much in the summer of 2016, I think Gasol is likely to get a Max contract in the summer of 2015. That number is going to look like a bargain under a 80 million cap.

    35. thenamestsam

      Is Hubert’s daily rant about how he can’t believe anyone found Lebron’s letter impressive and well done going to become a daily KB staple?

    36. stratomatic

      Notice that the debate is Melo’s discount and fitting Marc Gasol. There’s no way adding Gasol to the Knicks makes them a serious contender. That’s no knock on Gasol, but it going to take THREE all star caliber players to be a serious contender when your #1 player is Melo. We’ll be very good if we add Gasol, but no way that’s enough.

      The winning formula is 3 all stars and a solid supporting cast and bench of role players (preferably 1 super star among them) or 2 superstars, a couple of just below all star caliber players. and a good supporting cast.

      We have 1 all star and a couple of solid supporting players.

      Where’s the room when our all star is being paid like a super star?

      Unless Phil/Fish turn Melo into a superstar in the triangle, this is going to be a frustrating 5 years even though I’m sure we’ll be good.

    37. Hubert

      ephus, is it just younger guys who, when they sign a max deal, the max equals a percentage of the cap?

      Take Kyrie, for instance. In this article (http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/07/12/kyrie-irvings-contract-extension-lets-him-opt-out-early/) it states that the value of the max contract is a percentage of the cap, and we won’t know what exactly it is until the cap is set.

      Melo’s is a straight dollar amount, right? I.e. it will not increase if the cap increases like Kyrie’s might.

      Also, as much as I like Marc Gasol, I don’t like Marc Gasol at $22 million or more. Melo on the max alone isn’t crippling, but Melo at the max playing with another guy who also isn’t a true max would absolutely be crippling.

    38. ephus

      There are three tiers of Max players:

      0-6 years: 25% of salary cap
      7-9 years: 30% of salary cap
      10+ years: 35% of salary cap

      A 0-6 year player can get bumped up to the 30% tier by achievements (MVP, two or more All-NBA teams, ASG appearances)

      A player can always get 105% of prior salary, even if above the Max. Because Carmelo’s prior salary was higher than LBJ, his new Max salary was higher.

    39. Hubert

      Is Hubert’s daily rant about how he can’t believe anyone found Lebron’s letter impressive and well done going to become a daily KB staple?

      No.

      Although for crying out loud just read how stupid that part I quoted is.

      When all is said and done, it will become clear what LeBron’s motives were:

      1. Money (he’ll make a ton more in the long run for doing it this way, and I bet he ends up with a Mario Lemieux like ownership deal with the Cavs by the time he retires)

      2. Power & control (he has it over Dan Gilbert, he didn’t in Miami and he never would).

      3. Jobs in and around the Cavs and a higher profile for all the people in his crew, eventually leading to more wealth for everyone in his circle.

      4. Changing his publicly perceived mission: he no longer has to win 4 to match Jordan (he had already pretty much failed in that regard), he just has to win one to save Cleveland.

      1,999,999,999,999. The people of Ohio, and all that dross contained in Lee Jenkins’ essay.

      (Note that I think those motives are noble in their own right, and I don’t begrudge him any of it. I just wish people would see it for what it was and stop being fooled by the misdirection.)

    40. JK47

      So Melo and Gasol, two guys who will both be 31 in 2015-2016, is gonna be our core? That team will be good for a couple of years, but not good enough to do any serious playoff damage, then those guys’ production will fall off and the team will be bad again. There’s about a two-year window of that team being good. By 2018 and 2019 we’ll probably be pretty much back to where we are right now.

      Of course by the time that team falls apart, the Knicks will have traded the 2018 and 2020 draft picks away, and we’ll already have our sights on some more “big names” with our 2020 cap space.

    41. Hubert

      There are three tiers of Max players:

      0-6 years: 25% of salary cap
      7-9 years: 30% of salary cap
      10+ years: 35% of salary cap

      A 0-6 year player can get bumped up to the 30% tier by achievements (MVP, two or more All-NBA teams, ASG appearances)

      A player can always get 105% of prior salary, even if above the Max. Because Carmelo’s prior salary was higher than LBJ, his new Max salary was higher.

      Got it. So when they said Kyrie’s contract was undetermined, it’s because

      a) the salary cap for the year it begins hasn’t been set, and
      b) he could get bumped up.

      And melo will always be a straight dollar amount, never a percentage.

      Interesting sidebit in that article, by the way: if Kyrie gets voted as an all star starter, it bumps his salary up per the Derrick Rose rule, further crippling Cleveland’s future flexibility. As the article states, Kyrie’s agent took the Cavs to the cleaners.

    42. JK47

      Go ahead and put me down as being very unexcited about acquiring Marc Gasol. He’s a mediocre rebounder for a center; his TRB% last year dipped to an Eddy Curry-esque 12.7. Sure, he won a DPOY once but if he’s the big savior that’s gonna make this team a true contender, we’re in trouble.

    43. Donnie Walsh

      Marc Gasol will be 31 in 2015. Tyson Chandler is 31 now.

      Is pairing aging Melo with a 31 year old Gasol a lot better than pairing younger Melo with a 29 year old Chandler (as we did in 2011)?

      I just don’t see any chance to make forward progress for this team without having young players over perform their rookie contracts. But that puts a ton of pressure on Shane Larkin, Cleanthony Early, and the Greek kid, and it’s probably a 5% chance one of the “little three” hits it big. (That pressure was on Shump last year, and he came up woefully short).

      (Maybe, the 2015 first rounder will be the one, but he’s gonna have to not only be great, but be great really really young).

      Sure, “tear it down and rebuild through the draft” can be debated, but what cannot be debated is the benefit of hanging on to at least some of your draft picks.

      Melo’s contract is bad and makes winning challenging. Pairing it with a dearth of picks and young talent makes it impossible, no matter how much FA money Jax has to spend in 2015.

    44. Hubert

      Shump remains the only player on our team who has been a plus on both offense and defense

      Say what??

      The whole statement was:

      “Shump remains the only player on our team who has been a plus on both offense and defense at any point in the last three years”

      And Shump was a plus offensive player in 2012-13, as well as a plus defender. His offense has been inconsistent but he has had stretches of solid play that make you believe that, while he may never be excellent, he can be a plus. Right now I would rate him a neutral on offense and a plus on defense. And he is a lot closer to being a plus on offense than TH Jr is to being a plus on defense.

      Can you think of anyone else on our team who was ever considered a two way player in the last three years? (Chandler is gone, so he doesn’t count.)

    45. Hubert

      I find ASG appearances a very bad way to determine one’s salary, though.

      me, too. Especially when you consider I will be voting for Kyrie to make the all star game in 2015 simply to screw over the Cavs. :)

    46. stratomatic

      In defense of Gasol, like Chandler last year, he was probably less than 100% for parts of the season due to injuries.

    47. JK47

      Calling Shump neutral on offense is really giving him serious benefit of the doubt. He has played 4600 minutes in the league now and has a .489 TS%, and last year while fully healthy it was a putrid .480, so it’s not like he’s heading in the right direction. He was not a good offensive player in three years at Georgia Tech either, so there’s a pretty large and growing body of work that says Shump is a butcher on offense, with one outlier season in there where he shot the three well but still only managed a .516 TS%.

    48. DRed

      DeAndre Jordan will be 26 next year. He’d be a much better use of a max contract than Marc Gasol

    49. Hubert

      Notice that the debate is Melo’s discount and fitting Marc Gasol. There’s no way adding Gasol to the Knicks makes them a serious contender. That’s no knock on Gasol, but it going to take THREE all star caliber players to be a serious contender when your #1 player is Melo. We’ll be very good if we add Gasol, but no way that’s enough.

      The winning formula is 3 all stars and a solid supporting cast and bench of role players (preferably 1 super star among them) or 2 superstars, a couple of just below all star caliber players. and a good supporting cast.

      That was the Heat’s formula. It’s not the only formula. And it’s probably not a formula you’ll ever see again. The new CBA did it’s job. It broke up the Thunder’s big 3, and it broke up Miami’s. It’s very unlikely we’ll see more than two all stars team up again.

      And Melo and Gasol could definitely form a contender if the rest of the supporting cast is right and the money is well spent. We were a fringe contender two years ago with just Melo, Chandler, $20 million in dead salary for Amar’e, one draft pick, and a bunch of veteran minimum guys.

      I wouldn’t be against Melo & Gasol, I just thought (perhaps naively) that we could get Gasol for less than the max.

    50. iserp

      In defense of Gasol, like Chandler last year, he was probably less than 100% for parts of the season due to injuries.

      And yet they went 10-13 when he was injured and 40-19 when he was playing.

    51. stratomatic

      There is a reason so many smart teams are interested in Shumpert.

      What is not clear is why so many smart Knicks fans seem to have lost interest in him. It’s understandable how the fans that only look at PPG or PER don’t like him. But Shumpert is clearly a plus defender and has shown flashes of being a plus offensive player also. Given that Woodson was our coach last year, it’s practically a mortal lock he’s going to be better on offense this year.

    52. iserp

      DeAndre Jordan will be 26 next year. He’d be a much better use of a max contract than Marc Gasol

      I hope you are kidding.

    53. Farfa

      Let’s see what happens in 2015, after another regular season of player evaluations. I agree that Gasol probably doesn’t deserve the Medium Max (7-9 years).

      But then again, as I’ve been saying for several weeks, I think players worth the max (any max) are enumerable on my two hands’ fingers: LeBron, Durant, Anthony Davis, Chris Paul, Steph Curry, Kevin Love and, but I’m very conflicted about it: Blake Griffin, Andre Drummond, Joakim Noah, Dwight Howard.

    54. Hubert

      Calling Shump neutral on offense is really giving him serious benefit of the doubt. He has played 4600 minutes in the league now and has a .489 TS%, and last year while fully healthy it was a putrid .480, so it’s not like he’s heading in the right direction. He was not a good offensive player in three years at Georgia Tech either, so there’s a pretty large and growing body of work that says Shump is a butcher on offense, with one outlier season in there where he shot the three well but still only managed a .516 TS%.

      It is a strong benefit of the doubt, but he earned it from me with very strong play in 2012-13, including a stellar playoffs. That happened, I’m not imagining it. He’s a young guy and his performance statistics are all over the map. The standard deviation is too high to get a strong read on which way he is going to go for sure, but I’d rather give the benefit of the doubt to a player who I’ve seen been good at something than give it to someone who has never demonstrated a certain capacity. When I say Shumpert can be a good offensive player, it’s because I’ve seen him be one. When someone says JR or TH2 can be a good defender, they’re just hoping.

    55. Farfa

      I didn’t notice I cited in my 10 max-worthy the 8 best Wins Producers in the whole NBA last year. I guess WP and my analitical oriented guts see themselves eye to eye, after all.

    56. JK47

      I hope you are kidding.

      Maybe you didn’t notice but DeAndre made a huge leap forward last year, led the league in rebounding, was third in blocks, let the league in eFG%, led the league in TS%, and was third in DPOY voting. He was for damn sure a better player than Marc Gasol last year and he’s four years younger. He can’t hit a free throw to save his life but the guy was hugely productive last year.

      Problem is, his skill set does not fit the system.

    57. d-mar

      “Really, that’s nothing but pure tripe. Working for what you have is an Ohio thing? Does he think I live in New York and I just wake up and someone leaves my daily $500 allowance on my kitchen table?”

      Hubert, it’s sort of like the same BS we heard after Sandy – “New Jersey – stronger than the storm” “we’re New Yorkers…” blah blah blah, like people from other states would have been curled up in the fetal position while the waves washed over their homes.

    58. Farfa

      When someone says JR or TH2 can be a good defender

      This goes in the same basket of “if Bargnani had healed”.

    59. lavor postell

      Since Jan. 14, when reigning defensive player of the year Marc Gasol returned from a 23-game absence after spraining his medial collateral ligament, the Grizzlies have 27 victories, third in the league over that time to the Spurs (29) and Clippers (28). Gasol has been the reason why.

      The simple numbers: Memphis went 10-13 without its big man. Its defensive rating (the number of points allowed per 100 possessions) during that stretch was 106.4, according to NBA.com/stats. Its opponents scored 100 points or more 10 times (with Memphis posting a 1-9 record) and shot 46.5 percent, which ranked 27th in the league during that span.

      Since Gasol’s return, the Grizzlies’ defensive rating is 98.8, second only to the Chicago Bulls. They allowed 98.3 points per game while he was injured, but his presence on the floor has helped Memphis hold opponents to an average of 91.2 points since his return, tops in the league over that stretch. Opponents have topped the century mark just eight times and are shooting just 43.7 percent (third-best among defenses) with Gasol back manning the middle, a 39-game stretch in which the team has a .692 winning percentage (27-12), a pace that would have it contending for the No. 3 seed in the West over an entire season.

      Digging a little further into Gasol’s defensive presence, we find that opponents’ field goal percentage at the rim is 50 percent vs. the Grizzlies center. What stands out even more is opponents simply do not want to shoot anywhere near Gasol, attempting just 6.5 shots at the rim a game. His ability to read offensive sets and plays makes him one of the best help defenders, but also allows for him to make quick recoveries when necessary.

      http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wizards-insider/wp/2014/04/04/marc-gasol-has-been-key-to-memphis-grizzlies-late-season-run/

      DeAndre Jordan can’t carry Gasol’s jock. He’s a young Tyson Chandler without actually being good at defense.

    60. lavor postell

      The Grizzlies were 40-19 with Gasol this past season and 10-13 without him. Guy must be terrible.

    61. iserp

      JK47, you want your max players actually contributing. Marc Gasol scores more, and passes more, and can do things on his own. It is great to live off other high usage players, but if i want to max a player, i would rather have the guy which is better with 4 scrubs.

      I agree that DeAndre is a valuable player. But Marc is valuable on defense and on offense. And 31 years are not that much for 7 footers.

    62. 2FOR18

      If melo took 17-18 mil, they could have afforded what the Bulls paid P Gasol. Or am I off on that?

    63. JK47

      He’s a young Tyson Chandler without actually being good at defense.

      Erm, I gotta disagree with you there.

      Since the All-Star Break, his rim protection has been truly spectacular. Jordan is contesting 11.6 shots per game, raising his season average to 10.4 contests per game (tied for first in the league). He is contesting nearly 55 percent of opponents shots at the rim while he is on the floor. Over a full season, this would put Jordan sixth among all big men and second only to presumptive DPOY front runner Roy Hibbert among players averaging more than 20 minutes per game.

      Jordan’s game got exponentially better last season.

    64. iserp

      Not to mention that Kosta Koufos was a player quite loved by WP48. He had a very nice 60%TS the two years prior, and averaged 11 rebounds/36 min. But he crumbled when filling Gasol’s shoes. It is really fine to have players that are efficient and all that, but you don’t have to disregard the ones that take the initiative more.

    65. JK47

      JK47, you want your max players actually contributing.

      I dunno, leading the league in rebounding, finishing third in blocks and leading the NBA in eFG% while playing strong defense counts as “contributing” to me.

      Jeezuz, I’m turning into a WP48 bot here. I will acknowledge that Gasol is probably a better fit for the triangle, but “DeAndre can’t carry Gasol’s jock” is a little extreme.

    66. The Prescient Cock Jowles

      Re: Jordan and defense

      Those stats don’t match the smell test. Therefore the stats are wrong.

      …for Knickerblogger told me so.

    67. Hubert

      If melo took 17-18 mil, they could have afforded what the Bulls paid P Gasol. Or am I off on that?

      Melo could have taken the vet’s minimum and we couldn’t have offered Gasol anything more than the mini-MLE unless we moved Amar’e first, and then moved Bargnani or JR.

      It would have been nice to see if we could have gotten LA interested in doing a sign-and-trade with JR Smith that paid Gasol similar money, though. you’re telling me the Lakers wouldn’t take JR with all that crap they’ve got?

    68. lavor postell

      I admit I was being hyperbolic. Jordan’s a good player and he’s gotten better on defense, but he’s still not on Gasol’s level. Just watching Memphis play OKC in the first round followed by the Clippers in the next round made that blindingly obvious.

      In defense of Gasol, like Chandler last year, he was probably less than 100% for parts of the season due to injuries.

      He most certainly was and he still had a massive impact on the Grizzlies. With him they were on a 60+ win pace. Without him they were under .500.

      Gasol’s shooting numbers were very much below his career standards most likely due to the injury. Jordan’s definitely a more efficient scorer, but Gasol is one of the 3 best passing big men in the game who is great at the elbows and the low block, both areas which are emphasized heavily in the Triangle.

    69. massive

      I would actually hate if the triangle offense kept us from taking a better, younger player. Chances are that neither of DeAndre Jordan or Goran Dragic will receive a max contract from anybody next year because there is no “star” perception with the two players. Signing Dragic and Jordan would go a long way towards building something great here. Gasol on a max, compared to DeAndre on a 4yr/60 million, is a bad deal. I’d like us to really maximize our value around Melo with youth.

      I’m hoping Lance signs a 1 year deal since nobody seems to want to offer the league’s leader in TripDubs a contract. A lot of good players are available this year, which sucks for us next year.

    70. Frank O.

      Five years $123 million for Melo.

      Some discount. $1.4 million a year.

      Selfless.

      Shit

    71. Farfa

      I’m hoping Lance signs a 1 year deal since nobody seems to want to offer the league’s leader in TripDubs a contract. A lot of good players are available this year, which sucks for us next year.

      I want to see Lance to the Spurs for the MLE, just for the sake of comedy.

    72. Farfa

      Re: Jordan and defense

      Those stats don’t match the smell test. Therefore the stats are wrong.

      …for Knickerblogger told me so.

      Jowles, your style is really improving. I don’t know what WP says of you, but you’re the undisputed leader in LPKP (Laugh Produced for Knickerblogger Post), and that’s really a good thing. Again: no sarcasm involved.

      Signed: someone who was compared by you to Jon Abbey and Ruruland.

    73. Farfa

      Five years $123 million for Melo.

      Some discount. $1.4 million a year.

      After all, Ruru was right. Melo got less than the max. Can we change from Melo Mega Max to Melo Best Buy Max?

    74. Hubert

      Just to be clear on Marc Gasol:

      1. We need him to make it to free agency without getting traded this season.

      2. We need him to not want to take a 5 year offer from Memphis instead of a four year deal from us when he gets there.

      I don’t think we even get a chance to sign him.

      The most Knicks outcome possible here is us getting to free agency with cap space a year after we needed it and have no one available to sign. Aldridge already said he plans to stay in Portland. Love will probably get traded when the Wolves flounder. And I think Memphis will move Gasol if they don’t think he’s going to be willing to re-sign there.

    75. The Prescient Cock Jowles

      Farfa,

      I think you said something overtly sexist or something. It’s all in the past. I humbly request that you not drink the bleach that you may have been requested to drink.

      Stay gold, and defer all judgments on player valuation to me,
      THCJ, aka TPCJ

    76. lavor postell

      Personally if we don’t get Gasol that’s fine. I’d be fine with getting something like Robin Lopez and one of Afflalo, Wes Matthews or Danny Green. We desperately need a two-way wing among other things.

    77. Hubert

      Jowles, your style is really improving. I don’t know what WP says of you, but you’re the undisputed leader in LPKP (Laugh Produced for Knickerblogger Post), and that’s really a good thing. Again: no sarcasm involved.

      You’re using laughs per post without adjusting for volume posting? Have you even read the layman’s guide to advanced stats??? You have to use LP24

    78. Farfa

      @Hubert

      Dammit, I’m still a newbie and it shows. You’re right.

      @Jowles

      It wasn’t sexist (if it were I would have punched myself). It was something about not liking LeBron for his demeanor and somehow putting him in the same sentence of Kobe and Jordan to illustrate my point. But as you say, it’s all in the past.

      Let’s go for a burger… Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha!

    79. thenamestsam

      Besides would we even want Marc Gasol when we already have Cole Aldrich? Feels a bit like gilding the lily to me.

    80. Hubert

      I like to believe that Farfa is Danilo Gallinari, and I won’t let anyone dissuade me.

    81. Donnie Walsh

      My source inside MSG confirms that these were the 5 options put before Melo:

      Option 1: 5/$129 mil
      Option 2: 5/$128 mil
      Option 3: 5/$127 mil
      Option 4: 5/$125 mil
      Option 5: 5/$123 mil

      Melo makes due on his promise!

    82. DRed

      Have you even read the layman’s guide to advanced stats???

      That doesn’t exist anymore, bruh. Advanced stats are worthless.

    83. Farfa

      I like to believe that Farfa is Danilo Gallinari, and I won’t let anyone dissuade me.

      Is it for my (unbeknownst to me) peculiar phrasing? If so, I thank you so much anyway for believing me to be Gallinari and not Bargs.

    84. SJK

      Given what we need, defense and rebounding from the 4, Ed Davis seems like a perfect fit at the mini-MLE. He was stuck behind Zach Randolph in Memphis, but he could definitely be a plus player for us and I don’t see the mini-MLE being far off his market value. You have to think he’d also appreciate the chance at a bigger role if he came here… Haven’t heard any rumors but that would be a nice pickup.

    85. DRed

      Given what we need, defense and rebounding from the 4, doesn’t Ed Davis seems like a perfect fit at the mini-MLE.

      Word.

    86. The Prescient Cock Jowles

      For some reason, it’s saying my IP has been blacklisted. What’s up with that?

    87. KnickfaninNJ

      My source inside MSG confirms that these were the 5 options put before Melo:

      Option 1: 5/$129 mil
      Option 2: 5/$128 mil
      Option 3: 5/$127 mil
      Option 4: 5/$125 mil
      Option 5: 5/$123 mil

      Melo makes due on his promise!

      So if Melo took option 5, which I think is the value being reported, he gave the Knicks close to a 5% discount and gave up $6M in salary. The truth is, $6M is real money for anyone to give up.
      even it was option 4, it’s still $4M he’s giving up. You try telling your wife you want to spend $4M on a nicer work environment. I would have liked a smaller contract for him, but I accept the reality that we are better off with him at this price than we would be losing him for nothing.

    88. KnickfaninNJ

      For some reason, it’s saying my IP has been blacklisted. What’s up with that?

      I had a problem once that might match yours. I have a domain name that a domain hosting service supports, and mail for me is sent to that domain and, at the time, forwarded to my Comcast account by the domain service provider. I have forgotten the details, but there was a situation where the server forwarding my mail also had someone on it who sent out a lot of spam, so Comcast blocked mail from that server. I had to call them up and do something to get them to unblock it for my particular mail.

    89. danvt

      The people of Ohio, and all that dross contained in Lee Jenkins’ essay.

      Hubert,
      First of all, nice use of the word dross. I had to google that one. Big up!

      I love your posts and mean no disrespect but the vitriol with regard to LBJ’s letter is a bit over the top, IMHO. LBJ doesn’t just have an ad agency, he is an ad agency. Everything the man says is spin. It’s all calculated to the Q rating. The point is not whether he really believes it but whether people from NE Ohio can puff out their chests and say, “Yeah, we earn our shit here.” I mean, the irony is lost on almost no one here. Remember when Barkley put his elbow into the chest of some rail thin forward from a war torn African nation at the olympics and called it a “ghetto thing”. These guys need to renounce the rights to that type of rhetoric when they sign their first deal. Imagine, LBJ talking about his blue collar roots. It’s laughable. But it’s sports and sports are about narrative and not necessarily truth. Even CLE complaining about not having a winner since 1964 is slightly disingenuous. I mean, they did have Lebron and they did go deep in the playoffs each year. I’d certainly trade that for the Knicks record over that time. But now they get to see him, maybe finish what he started there, and that’s actually a good story. Also, I’m sure the guy wants to call the shots this time around and now he’ll get his chance. (Hopefully he’ll be as bad at that part as MJ.) I’m not rooting for him either, but he basically got it right this time.

    90. SJK

      Larkin lookin good early on: a nice strong take converting a contested layup and a good double team and strip on Zeller in the post.

    91. danvt

      Sorry man, but I still think I could do a better job of picking players than many of the GMs in the league. Especially considering that PPG is ostensibly still a primary factor in how much money a guy gets paid.

      NO. You’d make huge and very costly errors because you’re, like, not in the business and have zero idea what really goes on. You’re a Monday morning QB like everyone else here. The difference is that you actually take yourself seriously! I mean, you think you know more than Jim Leyland because he still puts the bunt on! You would trade Melo strait up for Tiago Splitter! You’d make Scott Layden look like a genius. I mean, you know more than me and can shine a light on a lot of bullshit that passes for accepted wisdom, but your arrogance knows no bounds, and this is a prime example.

    92. JK47

      I’d be all over Ed Davis for the mini-MLE but somebody will surely give him more than that. He’s 6’10″ and a real difference maker on defense. He is another guy, though, who is not a prototypical triangle guy– he does not have much of a post game or a mid-range game. He’s your classic defensive-oriented banger, a legitimate rim protector who will put a body on somebody and go hard after rebounds. I personally love this type of player. For all of his woes on offense, he’s not a total zero on that side of the ball either: career .559 TS%.

      This would be a good chance to buy low on him, as Memphis really could not find a role for him. If he’s available for the mini-MLE it’s a no-brainer even if he is not an ideal fit for the triangle. You could run out some pretty tough defensive lineups if you had Davis on the roster.

    93. 2FOR18

      Melo could have taken the vet’s minimum and we couldn’t have offered Gasol anything more than the mini-MLE unless we moved Amar’e first, and then moved Bargnani or JR.

      Ah, thx

    94. GoNyGoNYGo

      For some reason, it’s saying my IP has been blacklisted. What’s up with that?

      You must be a CableVision customer. Dolan must have read the blog comments and that’s why you got barred! LOL

      About free agents for next year, I think it’s so far in the future that it doesn’t pay for us to debate it. I’m convinced that the roster is going to change dramatically before the start of this season and that will have a lot to do with who gets targeted.

      But, just for fun, here are GoNYGoNYGo’s predictions….
      -Shump will go home to the Bulls.
      -Stoudemire will be playing in Jerusalem
      -Bargnani will sign a veterans minimum to play on a last place team
      -JR will be serving a long suspension for smoking funny stuff but it’ll be for some other team
      -Prigioni will retire
      -Hardaway will still be promising to play defense
      -LeBron will opt-out of his contract, get wooed by the Knicks and will return to the Cavs.
      -

    95. Hubert

      I love your posts and mean no disrespect but the vitriol with regard to LBJ’s letter is a bit over the top, IMHO

      My vitriol isn’t really about the letter but the way people are reacting to it. I thought the vitriol after The Decision 1.0 was over the top, too, and railed against the way people were killing him at the time. Everyone made him out to be the villain then and everyone’s making him out to be the hero now. I think both reactions were extreme. He’s been the same man all along, and just made what he thought were the best decisions for his brand and his legacy.

    96. Kahnzy

      summer Knicks > regular Knicks

      Do they give parades for Summer League titles? I hope so. I’m not being snide or sarcastic, btw, even though it comes across that way because I agree with you. They’re fun.

      @81 Farfa

      After all, Ruru was right. Melo got less than the max. Can we change from Melo Mega Max to Melo Best Buy Max?

      I believe it was Mega Max Melo, and being the guy who called dibs on the ™ I should know. From there, I’ll leave the Best Buy part to you. Man’s gotta get paid in this economy, or haven’t you heard?

    97. Kahnzy

      Also, I really wish the Summer League schedule was what the regular season schedule was like. Living on the East Coast and having to get up at 4:30 makes staying up to watch games a very difficult endeavor, and it’s only gotten harder as I’ve gotten older.

      But today, I get home from work and the Knicks are just starting their game. I wish everyday was like that.

    98. Z-man

      I got to watch all the summer league games. Impressions:

      Larkin, Tyler, Timmy and Aldrich (and Brown, of course)are NBA players right now. Tyler is the most raw, Larkin is the most physically challenged, but looked more comfortable each game. He’s an asset.

      Cle is not NBA ready yet. He can spot in maybe but any good wing defender will shut him down. He can’t dribble or go left, like, at all. He’s not strong enough to play the 4 and probably never will be, so he needs to work on ball skills or he won’t last in the league. That said, he can shoot and might develop into a solid 3 with coaching and hard work. Has a great attitude!

      Thanasis is intriguing and fun to watch. He’s super raw, but has a turbocharged motor and a Pippenesque wingspan. He makes some spiffy, spidery moves with the ball and gets to the rim but soesn’t finish well. He’s a whirling dervish foul machine of a defender, but if he could rein some of that in by playing smarter, he will be a legit end-of-the-bench defensive energy player. To become anything beyond that, he must develop something on offense, like a 3-point shot or an ability to finish.

      Jeremy Tyler has the look of a prototypical PF, has a very good motor, a silky touch facing up from 15-18 feet and pretty good scoring skills and instincts near the basket. His strengths and weaknesses were really on display today. His main problem is a total lack of control over his physicality. He commits the clumsiest, dumbest fouls by being out of position and unnecessarily swinging his arms or reaching in/over. He loves to bang, though, and did a nice job drawing offensive fouls. He may suffer from Amarebargnitis when it comes to defending the p&r. Phil and Derek will have their work cut out for them with this guy. Tht thing to remember is that he is only 23 and has played only 1000 NBA minutes, and is on a minimum contract. His 14.6 rebs/36 last year (5 offensive) alone make him worth a good, hard look.

    99. ephus

      Anthony Randolph is about to be waived by Orlando. It cost Chicago two second round picks to dump him.

      Anyone still want him? I never thought he was worth the fuss.

    100. dtrickey

      Has anyone else noticed Fishers demeanor with the players? Not sure if it’s just because he’s with the the young guys, but he’s looking like a real players coach. Could be real good for guys like Shump and TH2. Early days I guess.

    101. JK47

      Ant Rand should probably try giving it a go in Europe. He’s not even worth a 15th man spot in the NBA.

    102. ephus

      Greek Frequel could develop into . . . Phil Jackson (as a player). Long arms, strong defense, energy player, garbage man on the boards.

    103. DRed

      How does having our own D-League team work? Could we stash someone like Galloway there and not worry about another team signing him?

    104. bidiong

      I don’t think that is how it works D-Red. I think it’s more like you can match a contract offer if another team wants them or you get some sort of compensation. I’m pretty sure that some teams have signed players off other teams d league squads before. I’ll Google that though.

    105. alsep73

      DRed, I think it varies based on the situation/player. Because we drafted him, we could stash Greek Freak 2 on our D-league team without needing to either devote a 15-man spot to him or losing his rights, but somebody like Galloway would be signable by another team unless we want to give him an actual contract for the big club, which would in turn use up a roster spot for as long as we wanted to keep him.

      At least, I think that’s how it works.

    106. bidiong

      How do D-Leaguers make the jump to the NBA? 
      A call-up occurs when a player is signed by an NBA team. An NBA team is allowed to sign any D-League player as long as they are eligible to play in the NBA under the current Collective Bargaining Agreement (CBA). However, an NBA team cannot call-up a player whose draft rights are still held by another NBA team. A D-League player is usually signed to a 10-day contract, a short term contract which expires after 10 days. A player can only sign two 10-day contracts with the same team in one season. If the team wants to retain the player after the second 10-day contract expired, the team must sign the player for the remainder of the season.

    107. yellowboy90

      Galloway is 6’2 with a 6’8 wingspan according to portsmouth. I am looking at his 3pt numbers in college, can someone check to see if I am reading those right.

      F- 5.0 3pta/39%
      So-5.7 3pta/47%
      J-6.3 3pta/39%
      Sr-7.2 3pta/45%

      Seriously, stash Thannassis and sign Galloway to keep him in the triangle system(d-League). That shooting and length is intriguing.

    108. lavor postell

      Seriously, stash Thannassis and sign Galloway to keep him in the triangle system(d-League). That shooting and length is intriguing.

      This may well be an option.

    109. JK47

      I think I’d rather have the Knicks’ coaches working with Thanasis, and I would be worried sending him to Europe might stunt his development. If he has to learn how to play basketball, he might as well learn how to play it BCT’s way.

    110. DRed

      I think what Lavor was suggesting was that we put Thanasis in the D-League (presumably our DLeague team is going to play the BCT way) and sign Galloway to an NBA deal. For what it’s worth, both the WoW people and Kevin Pelton think Galloway is a decent prospect. The more guards we accumulate who can shoot and don’t do much else the more I think we should seriously think about moving Jr.

    111. Donnie Walsh

      Allan Houston took charge of the D-League team this year. Did Phil keep him in that position? If so, does Allan understand the triangle? (He played against it plenty, but he never played within it)

    112. stratomatic

      You are always vulnerable to error when you project a player forward, but I’ve never been as wrong as I was about Anthony Randolph. It’s hard for me to imagine a player with his height, his athleticism, and with a few skills (handle) that almost no big men have not improve AT ALL without a serious injury being part of it. When he came out he totally dominated summer league, was going coast to coast slamming and jamming, and doing things that guys 6’10″ or 6’11 can’t do in their teens. He was raw and needed better decision making. But there are loads of guys like that at that age that get way better. He was way above most. Now his career looks shot. I’d love to know what the problem was. Was it lack of work ethic? Was is extremely low basketball IQ? Was it getting high? All of the above?

    113. yellowboy90

      I think what Lavor was suggesting was that we put Thanasis in the D-League (presumably our DLeague team is going to play the BCT way) and sign Galloway to an NBA deal. For what it’s worth, both the WoW people and Kevin Pelton think Galloway is a decent prospect. The more guards we accumulate who can shoot and don’t do much else the more I think we should seriously think about moving Jr.

      I wonder if the Knicks could do Thanasis like N.O. did Pierre Jackson? Although coming from his family back ground I would hate to see him sacrifice the money he can get overseas.

    114. yellowboy90

      Look like the Bucks are trying to trade Ilyasova. I would take a chance on him but his injury issues scares me and his 7.9M contract is a risk but since his last year has a team option it is not that bad. He plays D and rebounds well when he is healthy so I’d take a flyer.

      What’s really interesting is that it was rumored that Kidd wanted to trade Tele/Lopez to the Bucks for Sova/Sanders. If true Kidd is one sneaky sneaky guy. lol.

    115. maxwell_3g

      I find myself agreeing with Stratomatic and JK47 on just about everyithing that is being said:

      1) We have all been trained that to think that the way to consistent contention is to save money on the cap and then snag the big fish. Many view this big fish as marc Gasol. The reality is that Melo plus gasol eating about 45 mill on the cap beginning as 31 year olds aint gonna get it done. There is a big difference between getting a max player as a first time FA at age 25-26 versus a 2nd time one at 31.
      2) Since Melo plus another max player is not going to get it done (save for maybe durant), it seems that the goal should be to build incrementally though smaller, solid acquisitions. we should be looking for younger 2 way players to jump on when the market devalues them, regardless of future cap room for signing another “superstar”. if the guy is a solid acquisition, he can always be moved in the future. we dont have the cap room, but someone is going to strike gold with lance this offseason for marvin williams money
      3) there is absolutely no need to package shump with amare or bargs. we will not have cap room either way, so why give up shump. just let the contracts run out

    116. ephus

      I think the Knicks had more back door baskets today than during the entire last season. I hope that Phish send the tape to Carmelo with a note reading, “This is how we are going to feed you when teams front you in the post.” There is no need to pound a square peg into a round hole.

    117. maxwell_3g

      another D-league question….
      1) say you draft someone in the 2nd round (Thanassis) and give him a 2 year / 2 mill contract. if he is not on the 15 player roster, a) do we pay him 1 mill a year, or does he need to be on the 15 man roster to get that, b) do the 2 years start to run when he is on the d-league team or does it not start until he is on the 15 man roster, c) can other teams sign him from the d-league if he is not on the 15 man roster, d) if they cant, what is to stop us from signing a bunch of young undrafted FA’s for slightly more than d-lague wages and retaining their rights even if they are not on the 15 man roster?

    118. lavor postell

      @132

      Not sure but I think once you offer him a contract and he signs the clock is running on the deal so even if you send him down to the D-League he counts as taking up a roster spot and his salary counts against the cap. The best thing to do would be to send Thanasis down to Westchester, coach him up there and get him some guaranteed playing time or let him to go to Europe for a year, make way better money (still wouldn’t count against the cap), play against the best non-NBA competition in the world, but not be guaranteed regular playing time or player specific coaching.

      I’d prefer sending him to the D-League unless we could guarantee him playing time and effective coaching at a good European club. Then we can sign Galloway to a contract and see where Thanasis is in a year. If he’s developed offensively to be a non-zero on that end and has learned how to play good defense without committing 5 fouls a minute we could sign him to an extremely cheap and team friendly contract and wave bye to Shump.

    119. flossy

      I’d love to know what the problem was. Was it lack of work ethic? Was is extremely low basketball IQ? Was it getting high? All of the above?

      I think he’s just really stupid

    120. BigBlueAL

      If you listened to Phil today during the broadcast he mentioned that with the money they have available to spend next season it all doesnt have to go to 1 player, it could go to a couple of players making 11-12m each instead of just spending it all on 1 player.

      Phil knows what he is doing guys. Does that guarantee anything positive?? No, but it also doesnt mean just because he is with the Knicks now and Dolan still owns the team that Phil is going to turn into Isiah as a GM either. Its OK to have some optimism once in awhile lol.

    121. Donnie Walsh

      Anthony Randolph’s 127 minutes of basketball for the Knicks was the saddest, ugliest, most worstest 127 minutes of basketball I’ve seen. He came here with a virtual guarantee by the stat-heads that he was on the cusp of exploding (especially in SSOL).

      Then he stepped on the court and threw passes into the 4th row instead of to wide open teammates and to spare him anymore humiliation D’Antoni had to nail him to the bench.

      It was sad for him, sad for his family, and especially sad for the guys with the spreadsheets that don’t usually invest in League Pass.

    122. KnickfaninNJ

      I did listen to Phil today and it was interesting. He was pretty candid. He said that shump was the only guy on the team with lots of defensive energy last year but that having only one guy with that sort of defensive energy wasn’t enough. He was asked about the center position and said that Dalembert could protect the rim like Chandler did, but had played more than 25 mpg for two or three seasons and they knew they couldn’t get more minutes out of him than that. He said backup centers are Amare and Bargs and he thought they both could do the job. He also said that he thought that Bargnani would be good this year and would surprise the fans.

    123. Brian Cronin

      Anthony Randolph is still a very talented player, but as others have noted…I don’t want to call the guy stupid in general, but he sure was stupid on the basketball court. He is a post player who wants to play on the perimeter, and a lot of his coaches have let him do what he wants and not what he should be doing. For the Knicks, D’Antoni played him as a 3 and as a stretch 4. He is not a three and is certainly not a stretch 4. It does not work at all to play him at the three or stretch 4. He’s a terrible outside shooter. So unsurprisingly, he was terrible and then D’Antoni benched him.

      However, for one game when Wilson Chandler was hurt, Randolph got to play as a four on the blocks and he was good (it was the same game that Mozgov went off for a career night).

      In Minnesota, he had some success when Kevin Love was hurt, but obviously that wasn’t a good situation – “You can be good just so long as Kevin Love is hurt.” And when Love wasn’t hurt, Randolph played on the perimeter because Adelman liked Anthony Tolliver more on the blocks and, of course, Kevin Love was awesome and he played big minutes and Love is much better than Randolph. It was a terrible fit, but even there, he was a decent enough reserve for them.

      George Karl used him well when he had him in Denver (but didn’t play him a lot) but then Brian Shaw pretty much ignored him and let him do what he want this year (due to injuries that forced Shaw to have to use Randolph) so of course he was terrible.

      Thibs obviously was not the coach for him, either, and he is a terrible fit in Orlando, as well, since they have a bunch of guys who can’t shoot from outside.

      He doesn’t fit the Triangle. A return to Golden State would probably be the best thing for him. They could use another post guy. He reminds me a lot like Blatche. Imagine if Blatche never smartened up – that’s where Randolph is right now. But if he does smarten up, you get Blatche – a guy who can’t shoot but can bang down low, get rebounds, blocks shots and can score a little (neither he nor Blatche will ever be efficient scorers).

      But obviously, if you’re an NBA coach and you have a guy who won’t do the most basic thing in the world to help himself, how can you be expected to want to deal with this nimrod? I wouldn’t be surprised if he just never plays in the NBA again. He really is just that stupid.

    124. nicos

      I always thought Blatche was just a lazy me-first guy who really didn’t give a shit but not terminally stupid. Randolph plays hard but has absolutely no concept of what he’s supposed to be doing out on the floor.

    125. Brian Cronin

      I always thought Blatche was just a lazy me-first guy who really didn’t give a shit but not terminally stupid. Randolph plays hard but has absolutely no concept of what he’s supposed to be doing out on the floor.

      I dunno, wouldn’t being lazy as a professional basketball player qualify you for being stupid? Similarly, I think Randolph’s disinclination to playing on the blocks could be termed lazy, as well. It’s harder to do that than to just float around on the perimeter, which seems to be Randolph’s preferred place on the court.

      As an aside, can you believe the Wizards gave Blatche fifteen shot attempts a game in 2010-11? Man, Flip Saunders had just totally checked out by then, hadn’t he?

    126. Brian Cronin

      Bill Simmons wrote an interesting article on Melo. The main gist of it was something that most of us would agree on- that it is sort of sad that the odds are strong that Melo never wins a title during his prime and that a sizable chunk of the reason why he likely won’t is because he pushed the Knicks to trade so much for him back in 2011 to make sure that he got the max salary and because he chose not to go a better team this year to make sure that he got the max salary (not a value judgment about those decisions, particularly this year where he would have had to give up a ton of money to go to Chicago, just saying that they tie directly into the likelihood that he doesn’t win a title during his prime).

      However, I take significant issue with how he goes about making his argument that Melo could play the Dirk role in a team like the 2011 Mavericks. I’m not even saying Melo couldn’t, as I think he probably could (he’s not as good as Dirk was, but modern Melo is close enough to being as good that he could approximate Dirk enough to make it work). However, part of Simmons’ argument involved some just silly fact-twisting to support his “Melo has had harder luck than Dirk” narrative and that I take issue with…

      To wit:

      He never played with anyone who made an All-NBA team except for Billups (third team, 2009), Chandler (third team, 2012) and Amar’e (second team, 2011).

      Dirk played with only one player who made an All-NBA team (Nash made the third team twice)

      He had only four teammates make an All-Star Game: Iverson (2007, 2008), Billups (2009, 2010), Amar’e (2011) and Chandler (2013).

      Earlier in the article, Simmons mentioned the same thing for Dirk.

      He had five head coaches in 11 years: Jeff Bzdelik (never coached again), Michael Cooper (became a WNBA coach), George Karl (coached 1,887 games, only won two Finals games), Mike D’Antoni (sadly, he coached again) and Mike Woodson (now a career assistant). Meanwhile, Dirk had three coaches in 15 years: Don Nelson (Hall of Famer), Avery Johnson (made a Finals and also won 67 games in a season) and Rick Carlisle (future Hall of Famer).

      This is the one that really killed me. It is absolutely fair to say that Carlisle is the best coach of the whole bunch, but somehow Don Nelson and Avery Johnson are good coaches but George fucking Karl is not? Karl only won 2 NBA Finals games? Gee, how many NBA Finals games did “Hall of Famer” Don Nelson win? George Karl is a very good coach (who will likely be in the Hall of Fame himself eventually) and Avery Johnson was a mediocre coach who inherited a great team. It just galls me when the square peg of the facts has to be hit into the round hole of the argument – Melo has to have shitty coaches for this argument to work so darnit, George Karl has to be a shitty coach.

      I have no problem with the idea that if Melo had his version of the 2011 Mavericks he could be the best player on a title-winning team, but just say that, don’t throw in all this other silly stuff.

    127. JD & The Rim Shot

      He came here with a virtual guarantee by the stat-heads

      especially sad for the guys with the spreadsheets

      I had no idea that “stat-heads” had formed a universal telepathic group think where they all promised to think alike, dress alike, and do there nails the same way. Though that mega mind link would all prolly agree that the spreadsheet insult was clever, insightful, and adds to the intellectual discourse.

      Coincedentally here’s head “stat-head” Hollinger on Randolph immediately after being drafted.

      Between Me and the Scouts, One of Us Will Look Like an Idiot
      Anthony Randolph, LSU, 9.85
      Yes, this is true. Seen in many quarters as a high lottery pick, Randolph has virtually nothing in his statistical record to justify such a lofty selection.
      In particular, his woeful ball-handling numbers are a major red flag. Randolph had more turnovers than any prospect except Beasley and Thompson, but those two players had every play run through them; I’m still waiting to find out Randolph’s excuse.
      Additionally, his 49.9 true shooting percentage is alarmingly bad for a guy who is supposed to dominate athletically.
      He can block shots, and the fact his team was such a mess probably didn’t help his numbers any, but gambling on Randolph with a high first-round pick looks like the basketball equivalent of hitting on 19 in blackjack. Hey, maybe the dealer throws out a 2 and everyone thinks you’re a genius, but chances are you’re going to bust.
      It appears he’s going to be drafted in the middle of the first round at worst, but even that appears to be a terrible mistake — there is no track record whatsoever of a player rated this poorly achieving pro success.

      In actuality, it was the scouts who were high on Randolph becuz of his athleticism. But yea lets group a whole class of people and make up pretend shit they said.

    128. Farfa

      I believe it was Mega Max Melo, and being the guy who called dibs on the ™ I should know. From there, I’ll leave the Best Buy part to you. Man’s gotta get paid in this economy, or haven’t you heard?

      Kudos to you Kahnzy (I didn’t remember who used it first, but I liked it from the first moment)! My “Best Buy” remark was obviously sarcastic.

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