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Saturday, October 25, 2014

Knicks Morning News (2014.07.12)

  • [New York Times] 5 Things to Watch as Cavs Bring in LeBron James (Sat, 12 Jul 2014 07:41:17 GMT)
    LeBron James’ decision to come home to Cleveland is being hailed as a story about the power of forgiveness and maturity and a victory for a blue-collar Northern city over a destination spot in glitzy Miami.

  • [New York Times] Anthony Keeps the Knicks Waiting on His Decision (Sat, 12 Jul 2014 01:58:53 GMT)
    Amid other free-agent moves, the focus now turns to Carmelo Anthony, who has to choose between remaining with the Knicks or going elsewhere.

  • [New York Times] Sports Media: Role of Sports Illustrated in LeBron James’s Announcement Raises Journalistic Questions (Sat, 12 Jul 2014 01:18:40 GMT)
    The approach of letting James write an open letter cast Sports Illustrated more as a public-relations ally of James than as the strong journalistic standard-bearer it has been for decades.

  • [New York Times] Bosh Agrees to $118 Million Deal to Stay in Miami: Report (Sat, 12 Jul 2014 01:08:08 GMT)
    The Miami Heat went on the offensive after losing LeBron James on Friday by agreeing to a massive five-year, $118 million deal to retain nine-time All-Star Chris Bosh, according to a Yahoo report.

  • [New York Times] Sports of The Times: LeBron James Bares His Soul in Announcing Return to Cleveland (Sat, 12 Jul 2014 00:49:50 GMT)
    LeBron James’s rather stunning display of soul-baring made his return from South Beach to the city by Lake Erie more mysterious, and moving, than you might have guessed.

  • [New York Daily News] Melo is preparing to re-sign with Knicks: source (Sat, 12 Jul 2014 04:41:28 GMT)
    Carmelo Anthony will be competing against LeBron James for at least five more years but he wasn’t about to begin battling James for the national spotlight on Friday. With James stunning the basketball world by announcing he was leaving the Miami Heat to return to the Cleveland Cavaliers, a source close to Anthony said that the free agent forward would reveal his plans within the next “24 to 48 hours.”

  • [New York Daily News] Lupica: LeBron makes his decision, now ball in Jackson’s court (Sat, 12 Jul 2014 04:03:42 GMT)
    This was four years ago at the Boys and Girls Club of Greenwich, Conn., and 30 feet, maybe less, from where LeBron James and Jim Gray were sitting, James about to announce on national television that he was taking his talents to South Beach.

  • [New York Newsday] Knicks confident they've done all they can do to keep Carmelo Anthony (Sat, 12 Jul 2014 00:35:23 EDT)
    LeBron James is going home, but Carmelo Anthony hasn't announced that he is staying home yet.

  • 47 comments on “Knicks Morning News (2014.07.12)

    1. Z-man

      So the keepers from summer league are:
      Cole
      Timmy
      Shane
      Cle
      Tyler
      Thenasis

      The Greek kid is clearly not ready, should be Eurostash or D-Leaguer. Early is pretty raw as well, can’t see him cracking the rotation, so he is probably bound for the D-League as well. Hopefully he plays well enough to be a sign-and-trade asset to dump Barg’s salary.

      Larkin is pretty tiny but definitely has potential as an up-tempo end-of-bench guy.

      So of this group, only Shane, Cole and TH2 are likely to make the 15-man roster.

    2. ess-dog

      Maybe Tyler will squeak in there.

      My theory on the Melo hold up is that he and Jax are waiting to find trades for Amare AND Bargs, getting them both off the books. The price will likely be TH2 AND Shump, but it seems like the big move Jax would go for. The question is, who are they targeting with that extra $$? Is it still Pau?

    3. Z-man

      So if Melo comes back, the current 13-man depth chart is:
      C: Cole, Dalembert
      PF: Amare, Tyler, Bargnani
      SF: Melo
      SG: JR, Shumpert, Hardaway, Ellington
      PG: Calderon, Prigs, Larkin

      Seems like there is a major imbalance between SF and SG. We need to either play small a lot, bring up Cleanthony or Thanasis, or make some deals.

      If Melo doesn’t come back, and we don’t get a SF in a sign-and-trade, we have some serious issues at the SF spot.

    4. Z-man

      I don’t see it, ess. You really think Jax would let both of them go? I think at most it’s one or the other, and maybe Early.

      In a perfect world, JR could be sweetener in a Bargs salary dump. Compared to Meeks, Young, Vince, etc, he seems like a steal on his contract.

      Yeah, I meant to include Tyler in my first post.

    5. yehudi3000

      I saw recently that alot of you doesn’t like melo for the mega max.
      I’ve got to disagree. Cap room wont get you anything without the first all star.

      Look at 2010 the knicks were so desperate to land a star they gave Amare 100 milion contract.

      If Melo signs for the mega max we might get Mark Gasol/ Love next year, maybe shift JR Smith contract with shump and prigioni to have 35 milion to spend on both next summer, Or other 2 top free agents.

      I would love to have Melo for 115 and a discount for the second year, but 129 won’t be that bad at all

    6. 2FOR18

      I think Tyler definitely makes the roster.

      I’d take Meeks over JR. everyday and twice on Sundays.

      If PJ has to use Shump to dump Bargs so he sign Gasol, then that’s the price of doing business and you do it. The Knicks have a legit shot at the EC finals with Gasol, assuming good health all around.

      Calderon/Gasol replacing Bargs and the Fatman must add 10 wins.

    7. Z-man

      2-4-18, I hear you but at the same time it seems like losing Shump to gain Gasol will be a straight defense for offense swap. If anything, I would be more inclined to do the same deal with TH2, since Gasol would give you the same thing at the 4/5 that TH2 gives you (great offense, weak defense) at the 2/3, with better passing and rebounding but poorer transition play. Shump is a really, really good defensive player at the 2-3 who can at least handle a P&R switch physically, and will be a lot better on both ends now that idiot Woodson is gone. I LOVE Timmy, and think he will be a better player this year than last, but if we already are stuck with JR and Ellington, he’s the more expendable. With Calderon, Amare or Bargs (I doubt we get rid of both), Gasol and even Anthony, this team needs defense.

    8. bidiong

      So, do you guys think we find out today which 1 of 5 options we got Melo on? Maybe he’s working on a “I ain’t leaving home” article right now.

    9. 2FOR18

      Long story short re: the Simmons article, which is something a friend and I had previously agreed on – LeBron knows Wade is done and, after 11 years in the league, knows he can’t continue to carry a team like he did this past season.

      I don’t think anyone ever carried a team like LeBron did in Cleveland, but this past season was too close for comfort. His season was like a football player playing QB while running the ball 25 times a game, and also playing linebacker and all facets of special teams.

    10. 2FOR18

      Oh yeah, I would much rather deal THJ than Shump. I was just thinking that it would take Shump to pull any Bargs deal off.

    11. TheRant

      Random question:

      I used to use a site called HoopsHype that quickly let you know all of the players under contract by any specific NBA team.

      http://hoopshype.com/salaries/new_york.htm

      They recently started an annoying habit of making you answer a quiz every single time you check out a team. Terrible UI.

      Does anyone have a better site to recommend? What does the Knickerblogger Nation recommend to see who is under contract where and for how much?

    12. DRed

      Bargs and Amare should not be traded if it means including some other asset to move them. We’re not winning a title this season. Just suck it up and they’re gone next year.

    13. hoolahoop

      I saw recently that alot of you doesn’t like melo for the mega max.
      I’ve got to disagree. Cap room wont get you anything without the first all star.

      Look at 2010 the knicks were so desperate to land a star they gave Amare 100 milion contract.

      If Melo signs for the mega max we might get Mark Gasol/ Love next year, maybe shift JR Smith contract with shump and prigioni to have 35 milion to spend on both next summer, Or other 2 top free agents.

      I would love to have Melo for 115 and a discount for the second year, but 129 won’t be that bad at all

      Personally, I think the knicks would have a better future if they parted ways with Melo, and reallocated their resources for players that were more team oriented.
      But, assuming everything you say is true, it’s still ludicrous to offer Melo that much if no one else is. He tested free agency and found out he has few options.
      Suppose you and your wife go toaster-oven shopping, and decide on the fancy one with all the accessories that’s $50 more than the next less expensive one. Do you bring it to the cashier and say, I’ll take this one, but I’d like to pay $100 more than you’re asking? The cashier is smarter enough to accept your offer. Then, you wake up the next morning and find out you have no money for food.

      If there was no cap, and it was just MSG’s money, I wouldn’t care, but it going to effect this team for the next five years.

    14. DRed

      I’ve been saying all year that Melo was going to find out he wasn’t as in demand as he thinks he is when he got to free agency. Whatever he’s actually worth, it’s just really dumb to pay him a lot more than anyone else is willing to-even if he is worth the mega max in the abstract. If nobody in the market is willing to give Melo more than 60 or so million, we’re insane to give him anything around 100 million. Offer him 4/70 and tell him to take a hike if he says no.

    15. hoolahoop

      Bargs and Amare should not be traded if it means including some other asset to move them. We’re not winning a title this season. Just suck it up and they’re gone next year.

      Seems obvious, but the media keeps reporting that they’re being shopped around.
      Plus, I expect Amare to have a very good season. And as much hate as Bargs gets, I think the worst thing about him is his contract. For some reason, and I’m probably the only one, I keep expecting him to play better.

    16. hoolahoop

      I’ve been saying all year that Melo was going to find out he wasn’t as in demand as he thinks he is when he got to free agency. Whatever he’s actually worth, it’s just really dumb to pay him a lot more than anyone else is willing to-even if he is worth the mega max in the abstract. If nobody in the market is willing to give Melo more than 60 or so million, we’re insane to give him anything around 100 million. Offer him 4/70 and tell him to take a hike if he says no.

      Exactly. And if he accepts, they’ll have plenty of money to build a good roster. An extra $12 million/yr can buy a damn good player. That’s how you build an elite team.

    17. er

      @15 how is Melo not in demand? At least 5 teams cleared space. It was clear that HE only wanted to entertain certain teams. Lol u guys kill me man

    18. hoolahoop

      @15 how is Melo not in demand? At least 5 teams cleared space. It was clear that HE only wanted to entertain certain teams. Lol u guys kill me man

      No – five teams did not clear space just for Melo.
      Of the teams that made offers, none was close to the max except LA’s $96/4 which was on the table for about five minutes before they went in a different direction.
      Melo wants the big stage. Knicks should get a discount for providing that.

      A lot of teams want Melo – but not for anything close to what the knicks are going to pay. The knicks should be in that pack.

    19. DRed

      It was clear that HE only wanted to entertain certain teams.

      Okay. Melo only wants to go to certain teams. Now, none of those teams can offer him anything near the max. So you think we should give him a max deal? Offer him a bit more than the other teams he wants to go to can.

    20. Count de Pennies

      It appears Melo’s value was inflated by the perception that he was a conduit to signing LeBron.

      No sooner did LeBron announce his return to Cleveland than the Lakers took themselves out of the Melo sweepstakes by trading for Lin. Kupchak likely figured that Lin @ 1 yr/$15MM > Melo @ 4 yrs/$96 MM and promptly pulled the trigger on the Houston trade before Melo could agree to LA’s earlier offer.

    21. Bruno Almeida

      @15 how is Melo not in demand? At least 5 teams cleared space. It was clear that HE only wanted to entertain certain teams. Lol u guys kill me man

      so much that the Bulls, the team reported to want Melo the most, are reportedly closing in on a deal with Pau Gasol and are gauging Wade’s interest at their team too.

      that leaves only Houston, who will probably keep desperately trying to find a Kevin Love deal, and might settle for Anthony if it doesnt’t work out.

      Carmelo is coming back, and I might have to keep away from League Pass for a long 5 years…

    22. DRed

      The clock is ticking for Houston. If they want to resign Parson’s they’ve got to make a deal real quicklike or lose all their cap space. Super GM Dork Elvis is in a bad spot. Nice work by Cuban.

    23. 2FOR18

      I agree with everyone who understands basic econ. what the Knicks should offer melo. But if PJ has already offered the max, then we’re stuck with it as much as I hate it.
      So I say do what it takes to get Pau on a reasonable deal by dumping Bargs, which makes them a contender in the shitty east. Then next year use Stat’s $ to add a major piece.
      Just trying to make the best of a bad situation.

    24. f.l.o.

      Random question:

      I used to use a site called HoopsHype that quickly let you know all of the players under contract by any specific NBA team.

      http://hoopshype.com/salaries/new_york.htm

      They recently started an annoying habit of making you answer a quiz every single time you check out a team. Terrible UI.

      Does anyone have a better site to recommend? What does the Knickerblogger Nation recommend to see who is under contract where and for how much?

      no quiz etc for me on hoopshype (even with adblock plus deactivated)
      but a good (and imo better) alternative is basketball-reference: http://www.basketball-reference.com/contracts/NYK.html

    25. lavor postell

      I like how the narrative now is that no team wanted Melo at the max even though Woj reported Houston has a standing offer of a max for 4 players: Lebron, Dirk, Bosh and Melo. Additionally the Bulls didn’t offer him more than $60-70m because they couldn’t based on their cap unless they opted for a sign-and-trade which they apparently are not keen to do. The Lakers did offer him a 4yr/$96m deal.

      I understand that a lot of people don’t like his game and think his production isn’t enough for the salary, but to say he garnered no interest past a $70m deal is bullshit. I also understand that the Knicks shouldn’t offer the max if all of his once upon a time suitors have ruled them out, but that is a separate discussion. I’m still waiting to hear from Jowles why advanced stats founding father Daryl Morey feels that Melo and Bosh were worth the max. I also think it’s funny that people here now want to act like none of the teams that were interested in him would give him a max deal when that’s just not true.

    26. hoolahoop

      I agree with everyone who understands basic econ. what the Knicks should offer melo. But if PJ has already offered the max, then we’re stuck with it as much as I hate it.
      So I say do what it takes to get Pau on a reasonable deal by dumping Bargs, which makes them a contender in the shitty east. Then next year use Stat’s $ to add a major piece.
      Just trying to make the best of a bad situation.

      So, another words, the Zen Master major fucked up to screw the knicks out of contending for a title for another five years!!!!!!!!!! Or, earn your $12 million friggin dollars and have a “revised” conversation with Melo.
      How does this work? Melo can wait and change his mind anytime he wants, but the knicks are bonded to offering him the Mega Max?

    27. The Prescient Cock Jowles

      Who cares how much interest he’s garnered past $70M? The Knicks should sign-and-trade him as quickly as possible, regardless of deal. They’ll get at least two first rounders back and won’t be saddled with a 0.150 WS/48 player who is about to hit his declining-production stage pronto.

    28. lavor postell

      Random question:

      I used to use a site called HoopsHype that quickly let you know all of the players under contract by any specific NBA team.

      http://hoopshype.com/salaries/new_york.htm

      They recently started an annoying habit of making you answer a quiz every single time you check out a team. Terrible UI.

      Does anyone have a better site to recommend? What does the Knickerblogger Nation recommend to see who is under contract where and for how much?

      http://www.shamsports.com/

      They have every team’s salaries broken down as well as indicating team options, player options, ETO and non-guaranteed deals. It’s pretty solid.

    29. lavor postell

      Who cares how much interest he’s garnered past $70M? The Knicks should sign-and-trade him as quickly as possible, regardless of deal. They’ll get at least two first rounders back and won’t be saddled with a 0.150 WS/48 player who is about to hit his declining-production stage pronto.

      Does Daryl Morey value Carmelo at a max contract or was that just an elaborate ruse?

      Which team is giving up two first for Carmelo Anthony right now? If they give up 2 firsts how likely is it those picks are going to be in the high 20’s?

    30. er

      the Lakers took themselves out of the Melo sweepstakes

      If we are just going to lie about things due to blinding Melo hate then I’m dealing with unreasonable ppl.

    31. DRed

      Cole Aldrich had the highest WS48 on the Knicks last year. Why didn’t we offer him 20 million?

    32. Hubert

      You can’t withdraw a max offer to Melo if it’s already been made now that his suitors have moved on. You just can’t. No one will trust you in future negotiations.

      I find myself wondering if Melo will take the max money Morey was going to offer Bosh.

    33. hoolahoop

      I like how the narrative now is that no team wanted Melo at the max even though Woj reported Houston has a standing offer of a max for 4 players: Lebron, Dirk, Bosh and Melo. Additionally the Bulls didn’t offer him more than $60-70m because they couldn’t based on their cap unless they opted for a sign-and-trade which they apparently are not keen to do. The Lakers did offer him a 4yr/$96m deal.

      Again, you seem to have sources that no one else does.
      The only team that offered the max was LA, and they quickly went in a different direction when it was reported they were the only team in the race for Melo. Chicago – No max. Houston – No max. Dallas – No max.
      Teams were hoping to get him on for much less, which as it turns out, is his true value – except to Chief Triangle, the rookie coach, and JD.
      That’s why it makes no sense to over spend on him, unless a Sign and trade is in the works, which now seems unlikely because the market has spoken.

    34. Hubert

      As an aside: how pissed do you think Melo is that his decision has been completely overshadowed?

    35. er

      @37 Houston offered the same max they did for bosh

      @38 – why would he be pissed? Lebron is Lebron….Melo knows who Lebron is smh.

    36. hoolahoop

      Cole Aldrich had the highest WS48 on the Knicks last year. Why didn’t we offer him 20 million?

      Racism

    37. Hubert

      er, Melo wanted to experience free agency. The climax of that experience is your decision, people talking about it, you being the center of attention for a while. He’ll get none of that now. Don’t tell me he didn’t want that.

    38. hoolahoop

      And besides, for a guy that talks about loving to live in the city……have you ever been to Houston? Lala would just love it there. And his kid would never forgive him.
      I hate to jump the gun, and hope I’m proven wrong, but PJ screwed up big time.

    39. DRed

      Woj reporting that Melo is hours away from announcing his return to the Knicks on a five year deal.

    40. JK47

      If the Melo deal does not come with a no-trade clause, or it it comes with a limited no-trade clause that only prevents trades to say, 10 teams, I’m not gonna sweat it. A megamax with a full no-trade clause is an unmitigated disaster.

    41. ephus

      I am optimistic that Carmelo Anthony can be the best player offensive focus on a contender in New York over the next five years. During the last three years, I have seen a lot of maturation in his game: less pouting, looking to pass more out of the double team and improved defensive rebounding. I believe that the Triangle will help accentuate what Carmelo does best (shoot, dribble-drive, operate out of the high post) while eliminating his bad offensive habits (extended stationary dribbling, lack of movement off of the ball).

      My preferred outcome would be for Carmelo to take 5/103 (20/18.5/20/21.5/23) to give as much cap room as possible for next offseason. That probably is not going to happen. The biggest issue for me is the second year salary.

      Even at the mega-max, I would rather have Carmelo here than see him leave for nothing.

      If you click on my name, you get to my blog.

    42. bidiong

      I think a lot of us preferred the sign and trade with Chicago, but in reality him walking for nothing is definitely not in our best interests. I think he’ll work great in the triangle if he adjusts to it and follows it. Melo can be a 25 10 5 player with the right group. He just needs to be convinced 25 10 5 is better than 28 6 3. Hopefully PJ and Fisher can convince him of that.

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