Statistical Analysis. Humor. Knicks.

Friday, August 29, 2014

Knicks Morning News (2014.07.10)

  • [New York Times] Sports Briefing | Pro Basketball: Spurs’ Popovich Receives Extension (Thu, 10 Jul 2014 03:56:40 GMT)
    Gregg Popovich, one of five coaches to have won at least five N.B.A. championships, agreed to a multiyear contract extension with the San Antonio Spurs.

  • [New York Times] Sterling Shouts at Wife in Courtroom (Thu, 10 Jul 2014 02:26:05 GMT)
    Donald Sterling, the owner of the Los Angeles Clippers, shouted, “Get away from me, you pig,” at Rochelle Sterling, his estranged wife, at a trial that will determine whether she legally removed him from a trust in order to sell the team.

  • [New York Times] Knicks Continue to Court Him, but Anthony’s Future Is Unclear (Thu, 10 Jul 2014 02:24:50 GMT)
    Carmelo Anthony has offered few clues about his future, and it was more of the same Wednesday when his tenure as a free agent reached eight days.

  • [New York Times] Bryant Says He’d Welcome Scott and Anthony (Thu, 10 Jul 2014 01:38:23 GMT)
    Kobe Bryant feels great, would welcome Byron Scott as coach of the Los Angeles Lakers, would love to play alongside free agent Carmelo Anthony and is pleased with the moves of the team’s front office so far.

  • [New York Times] Sterling Lashes Out at Wife in Trial Over $2 Bln Clippers Sale (Thu, 10 Jul 2014 01:11:07 GMT)
    Los Angeles Clippers owner Donald Sterling lashed out at his estranged wife following her court testimony on Wednesday in a trial over the $2 billion sale of the NBA team.

  • [New York Times] On Pro Basketball: LeBron James’s Latest Feat: Bringing a Frenzied League to a Freeze (Thu, 10 Jul 2014 01:01:13 GMT)
    The basketball-watching world waits while James, its most powerful force, decides where he will play.

  • [New York Times] AP Sources: Riley, LeBron Meet, No Decision Yet (Thu, 10 Jul 2014 00:59:15 GMT)
    Pat Riley made his pitch. And now, LeBron James wants time to think.

  • [New York Times] Parsons Signs 3-Year Offer Sheet With Mavericks (Thu, 10 Jul 2014 00:53:17 GMT)
    The Dallas Mavericks have made a move at small forward, with restricted free agent Chandler Parsons signing a three-year offer sheet worth more than $45 million.

  • [New York Daily News] Lupica: Right on the money, Carmelo taking Knicks contract is about dollars and sense (Thu, 10 Jul 2014 04:41:44 GMT)
    Carmelo Anthony is telling people that he has faith in Phil Jackson, and why not, Jackson is as big as you can be in the NBA without being a player. And it is quite clear by now that Anthony loves New York, loves the great stage of Madison Square Garden, loves the attention.

  • [New York Daily News] Carmelo Anthony will return to Knicks, wants to win in New York (Thu, 10 Jul 2014 04:40:09 GMT)
    Carmelo Anthony is ready to chase a championship with Phil Jackson in New York. After agonizing over a decision for the past week, Anthony is expected to announce on Thursday that he is re-signing with the Knicks, the Daily News has learned.

  • [New York Daily News] Fisher: No word on Anthony’s decision yet (Thu, 10 Jul 2014 04:39:22 GMT)
    Phil Jackson was mum and Derek Fisher measured his words carefully, on the heels of the Daily News reporting that Carmelo Anthony is expected to announce Thursday that he will be staying with the Knicks.

  • [New York Post] Woodson gets new gig as assistant with Clippers (Thu, 10 Jul 2014 01:47:40 -0400)
    Mike Woodson landed his next contract before Carmelo Anthony got his. The former Knicks coach has agreed to join Doc Rivers' staff with the Clippers, CBSSports.com reported on Wednesday, citing…

  • 104 comments on “Knicks Morning News (2014.07.10)

    1. hoolahoop

      Knicks played it all wrong with Melo. They knew he was going to see other teams. They just should have let him do it, then had their meeting. Instead of blurting out a mega max offer, PJ should have asked him if he was interested in staying with the knicks. When Melo’s team asked the knicks what they’re offering, PJ should have asked Melo what it would take for him to stay here. “Give us your best deal and we’ll say yes or no. We’d love to have you, but it’s got to make sense.”
      If Melo comes back with a mega max request, let him walk, counter offer, or get him involved in a sign and trade.
      And, if his best offer was LA at $96/4 and he won’t take less from the knicks than $129/5, you know he really doesn’t want to be here.
      Or, maybe that’s happened, and a sign and trade is in the works.

    2. Farfa

      Also, would you pay Parsons 45mln/3yrs? I don’t get why teams are head over heels in trying to match overpaying offer sheets.

    3. flossy

      Dallas made the offer in an attempt to screw over Morey’s free agency plans. The thing is, if LeBron makes his decision soon (assuming it’s not a return to Miami), and Bosh commits to Houston within 3 days of Parsons signing the offer sheet, they can sign Bosh and then match the offer on Parsons, since Parsons cap hold is still only $1 million during that 3-day period.

      If that all happens, there’s no question they should match the offer. Why not leap at the chance to lock in a core of Harden/Parsons/Bosh/Harden? Unless they think they can sign a good replacement at the MLE (which they probably can’t), having a good, young, 2-way wing who can shoot would be a good look for them. I think GMs and owners are going to realize, if they haven’t already, that loading up on good players and then skimping on a supporting cast to save tax money (a la Mike Miller or Harden in OKC), it just frustrates your stars and makes it harder to win.

    4. thenamestsam

      Right, it’s not like the choice is between keeping Parsons on that deal or spending that money on somebody else. It”s really between keeping Parsons on that deal or spending less on a worse team. It may not be a team friendly deal, but letting him go would be penny wise but pound foolish. That’s a potential championship roster.

    5. Farfa

      Why not leap at the chance to lock in a core of Harden/Parsons/Bosh/Harden?

      Because you can’t play Harden twice. :-) (also, it wouldn’t be healthy for your DRtg)

      But, jokes aside, I understand why Houston would match that offer if they nabbed Bosh. But if they don’t? And why Utah should match that Hayward deal?

    6. prezs2reprsntme

      speaking of Parsons, I think one of the most intriguing storylines this off season is the contracts, expectations, and comparisons of Parsons, Hayward, and Lance. All multi talented big wings who can do a bit of everything. Parsons is 25, Hayward and Lance 23. IDK how yall feel but I feel like there are decent arguments for putting them in any order you want. On top of that, Lance and Gordon both have weird things affecting their value: Lance’s antics, Gordon’s stats (maybe?) taking a hit bc he was the #1 for Utah.

      Begs the questions:
      Does context (being a #1) make your stats drop off THAT badly in the case of Hayward?
      Does context (the pacers, bird, west, etc) make your stats that GOOD in the case of lance?
      Are teams being TOO afraid of Lance, when it seems like relative to these guys he might be a bargain, despite arguably being better than them?
      And of course, the question of how to rank em, haha.

    7. Loathing

      I read the headline above of “Sterling Shouts at Wife Across Courtroom” as “Sterling Shoots at Wife Across Courtroom”. Time to go get some coffee.

    8. DRed

      Are teams being TOO afraid of Lance, when it seems like relative to these guys he might be a bargain, despite arguably being better than them?

      Almost certainly, unless there are other personal issues that the league knows about but we don’t. (which is certainly possible) Given his youth and production, Lance is clearly the best player of the three. I don’t really care about his on court dickishness, but his off-court domestic violence would be something you’d really have to dig in to.

    9. Farfa

      Begs the questions:
      Does context (being a #1) make your stats drop off THAT badly in the case of Hayward?
      Does context (the pacers, bird, west, etc) make your stats that GOOD in the case of lance?
      Are teams being TOO afraid of Lance, when it seems like relative to these guys he might be a bargain, despite arguably being better than them?
      And of course, the question of how to rank em, haha.

      Hayward: more or less yes, but only considering that Utah’s coach was the awful Tyrone Corbin. Still, the problem with him is that he’s best suited as a third option in a well-coached team. So, nice player, but worth 10-12 mln dollars/yr for me.
      Lance: certainly so. He grabbed all those rebounds because their center was Hibbert, who rebounds as well as our Bargs, also Lance could elbow two of his teammates to pad his stats. I wouldn’t touch Lance with a 30-foot pole unless I was someone who mastered the art of coaching loonies. So, basically, Phil Jackson or Don Nelson :-)
      Ranking: If Chandler starts focusing again on defense, Parsons-Hayward-Stephenson. Otherwise: Hayward-Parsons-Stephenson.

    10. hoolahoop

      Lance is a headache, plain and simple. If I owned a team, I wouldn’t sign him at any price.

    11. Hubert

      If Bosh doesn’t sign with Houston, though, Cuban blew Morey’s chances at signing anyone else after the next three days. And if LeBron waits a couple days to make up his mind, Morey doesn’t have a lot of time left to use that money anywhere else. Kudos to Cuban. About time someone fucked with Morey.

    12. prezs2reprsntme

      I think we can agree all 3 of those guys should be, scoring wise, a 3rd option (at best). The big question for Parsons is can he improve his Defense, the big one for Lance (on court wise, anyway) is if he has a higher usage can he get to the line to make up for the potential % declines that come with higher usg. For Hayward, it’s prove that the ELEVEN PERCENT (!!) drop in his 3pt% was a fluke.

      I think the perceptions are a bit out of whack, I’m with DRed here. It is pretty reasonable to say Lance has a shot to be more productive offensively than GH and CP, i dont think it’s reasonable to say the other 2 have a shot to be as productive defensively as Lance.

    13. DRed

      Yeah, smart move by Cuban. It’s probably an overpay for Parsons, but Parsons is a good player, and it’s a 3 year deal, so it’s not that big of a deal. And if they don’t get him, they fuck with a rivals plans.

    14. thenamestsam

      It really is hilarious. It’s a lot easier to laugh over it this time as somebody with no vested interest. I know last time I was definitely trying to read the tea leaves on him picking Greenwich as the site of the Decision (close to NY!) and didn’t find it all that funny.

    15. stratomatic

      IMO, it only makes sense to overpay if you think your team is 1 player away from serious contention.

      In Houston’s case, IMO adding Bosh and then overpaying for Parsons meets that criteria.

      In Dallas’s case, you can see how Cuban might think the trade for Chandler and addition of Parsons would get him there based on their performance in the playoffs. I don’t necessarily agree because IMO they will need a better PG than Mo Williams, but even if he is wrong, it’s not by much. That would be a very good Dallas team.

    16. Kevin Udwary

      I don’t necessarily agree because IMO they will need a better PG than Mo Williams, but even if he is wrong, it’s not by much. That would be a very good Dallas team.

      Well, Felton said he’s going to be an elite PG, so they’re all set.

    17. lavor postell

      In Houston’s case, IMO adding Bosh and then overpaying for Parsons meets that criteria.

      I agree. They are going to be dangerous thin on the bench this year which is why I don’t think they’d be a real contender this upcoming year barring some truly great consistent performances from the starting 5, but next summer I think with exceptions and assets to deal Morey will be able to cobble together a decent enough supporting cast for them to be a top-3 favorite.

    18. stratomatic

      A lot of people thought Gallinar’s contract was too high. He’ll be making 10.8 this year. I would argue that a healthy Gallo is a better player than Parsons. Maybe not by much, but he’s better by a tad. He looks even better when you isolate healthy Gallo from injured Gallo.

      This is their last seasons, but Gallo had a stretch where he was really breaking out when he finally got to 100%. Then he had some issues again.

      http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=gallida01&y1=2013&p2=parsoch01&y2=2014

    19. Farfa

      Well, Felton said he’s going to be an elite PG, so they’re all set.

      You guys got it all wrong. Felton meant he’s going to be an elite Penguin Grease, or maybe Pointing Gun.

    20. DRed

      I would argue that a healthy Gallo is a better player than Parsons.

      And since Gallo is essentially the same player as Bargnani, we’ve got a better version of Parsons. Phil, get on the phone and make some moves!

    21. Loathing

      You guys got it all wrong. Felton meant he’s going to be an elite Penguin Grease, or maybe Pointing Gun.

      Pro Golfer.

    22. flossy

      A lot of people thought Gallinar’s contract was too high. He’ll be making 10.8 this year. I would argue that a healthy Gallo is a better player than Parsons. Maybe not by much, but he’s better by a tad. He looks even better when you isolate healthy Gallo from injured Gallo.

      This is their last seasons, but Gallo had a stretch where he was really breaking out when he finally got to 100%. Then he had some issues again.

      http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=gallida01&y1=2013&p2=parsoch01&y2=2014

      I still love Gallo and also believe that in the abstract he is better than Parsons, but I also believe that in the abstract, Amar’e is better than Melo. In reality, if you can’t stay on the court, the relative superiority of your skills is a moot point.

    23. Farfa

      Well, Felton said he’s going to be an elite PG, so they’re all set.

      Donald Sterling, the owner of the Los Angeles Clippers, shouted, “Get away from me, you PG” at Raymond Felton

      Sources: Donald Sterling has had enough of overweight PGs, sues Felton for reminding him of Baron Davis’ girth

    24. lavor postell

      A lot of people thought Gallinar’s contract was too high. He’ll be making 10.8 this year. I would argue that a healthy Gallo is a better player than Parsons. Maybe not by much, but he’s better by a tad. He looks even better when you isolate healthy Gallo from injured Gallo.

      I agree with you again. Gallo can also log minutes at the 4 fairly credibly which IMO makes him even more value given the move towards smaller lineups across the league.

    25. BigBlueAL

      That was a pretty fair, even keel article on Melo and the Knicks. Lowe is pretty good at what he does.

    26. hoolahoop

      I’ve asked over and over again,”Why would PJ offer Melo the mega max if he’s negotiating against much lower offers.” Makes no sense.
      There’s one very good reason PJ would do it. Sign and trade.
      I think Melo may be going elsewhere, possibly Chicago.

    27. ephus

      I’ve asked over and over again,”Why would PJ offer Melo the mega max if he’s negotiating against much lower offers.” Makes no sense.
      There’s one very good reason PJ would do it. Sign and trade.
      I think Melo may be going elsewhere, possibly Chicago.

      If Carmelo Anthony signs for more than four years or more than $96 million, he cannot be traded as part of a sign and trade. The earliest he could be traded is December 15.

    28. The Prescient Cock Jowles

      I think at the end of the 2018-19 season, I’m going to feel like Cutty seeing his teacher ex-girlfriend when he gets out of prison. Only I’ll be looking at the finally-open cap space.

      “Looking at you … hurts.”

    29. Hubert

      It’s a great analogy, though. I mean, I know it’s not perfect, but isn’t a run of 40 degree days (with the potential for some 60 degree days, but never a chance at 85 and sunny) not a bad thing for us? It’s been below 20 for a decade. We’re a laughingstock. If the worst that 5 years of Melo brings us is 40 degree days or better, at least we stop being the butt of everyone’s jokes. It doesn’t take much for us to be happy. We will bbq on merely a 60 degree day. And I think melo can bring us a couple of those.

    30. Hubert

      I’ve asked over and over again,”Why would PJ offer Melo the mega max if he’s negotiating against much lower offers.” Makes no sense.

      You got to. This America, man.

    31. GoNyGoNYGo

      A couple of things. I haven’t really said this before about Donald Sterling.

      He has Alzheimer’s disease or some other form of geriatric dementia. Both my parents suffered from it and it changes a person dramatically. You say things you would never have said before. You are, in all senses of the word, incapable of rational thought. I can tell by listening to him that that’s what’s going on with the guy. No, he can’t run an NBA team. Let me take it further. He shouldn’t be driving a car or handling his bank account. Maybe he was a bigot before, but my own mother called me names much worse than anything he said to his so-called friend Vivianna. The vitriol towards him sickens me because I know how horrible the disease is. He is not in control of what he says or does.

      Sadly, there’s no help for him. It will get worse every day. So, while I understand the anger that people feel for him, I don’t feel anger. I feel pity and I feel very awful for his wife. The caregiver has a terrible burden and now she has to go through this court thing with him. It’s a thankless job and the only thing she will get out of this ordeal is suffering.

      As for Melo. Berman’s tweet about Lala’s anniversary tweet wishes to Melo missed the most important line. Berman quoted: “You’re stuck with me like glue…There’s no one else besides you”. What he missed was the all-important next line: “You will always be the apple of my eye… I will LOVE you until the day I die”. Apple??? Big Apple? Is that the hint we’ve been looking for?

    32. JK47

      I think at the end of the 2018-19 season, I’m going to feel like Cutty seeing his teacher ex-girlfriend when he gets out of prison. Only I’ll be looking at the finally-open cap space.

      Until the Knicks use their 2019 cap space to give out a max contract to Jabari Parker.

    33. The Prescient Cock Jowles

      @44

      Great post. It’s easy to cast hatred. Sympathy might be more appropriate, even if he has a long, storied history of abusing people.

    34. ephus

      GoNYGoNYGo,

      I am sorry for your experience in dealing with geriatric dementia. It must have been heartrending to deal with parents who could no longer make sense.

      The issue is more complicated with Donald Sterling. Based upon the certifications of two leading specialists, I believe that he is suffering from some form of dementia. At this point, he appears to be suffering from mild cognitive loss.

      The confounding factor is that Donald Sterling was a racist bigot long before he started to suffer from Alzheimer’s Diseases. His mistreatment of Black and Latino tenants goes back more than a decade. His mistreatment of Elgin Baylor, Baron Davis, Danny Manning and others goes back at least a decade.

      It is as if George Wallace started spewing racial invective after he was diagnosed with cognitive decline. It is hard to know how much is just the disease, and how much is the disease erasing Sterling’s social filters and simply speaking what has always been on his mind.

    35. DRed

      Got this gem on the comment thread to that Zach Lowe article

      “I’m a big believer in Carmelo. He’s an unreal offensive talent, a great rebounder, and an underrated passer. I think if he stays in NY, Phil builds a winner around him. He’s never had a great supporting cast in his career nor a true #2 option and we know you need those to win in the league. He’s a top 10 player, top 5 easily. To be able to score at that clip and shoot 45% is astounding, considering the fact that he didn’t have a #2 option. Pair him with another star and he will shoot 50% easy. ”

      That is such a perfect distillation of the mainstream opinion on Carmelo.

    36. BigBlueAL

      Phil talking to reporters right now. Best tweet so far:

      Asked why he thinks he hasn’t heard from Carmelo yet, Phil said: “Isn’t Mercury in retrograde?”

    37. BigBlueAL

      Also this interesting tweet:

      Phil says Melo’s camp is “amenable to what we’re trying to do” w cap. Says there are abt 5 options on table as to how much $ Melo could take

    38. thenamestsam

      We will bbq on merely a 60 degree day. And I think melo can bring us a couple of those.

      Agreed. I think the hope is that with smart management and decent coaching we can put together a decent string of seasons that look more like 54-28 than 37-45 and mix in a few respectable playoff runs (Aside: let’s say Lebron does go to Cleveland but they strike out on Love. Who’s the East favorite next year? The 33 win Cavs+Lebron and Wiggins? Indy probably minus Stephenson? Bulls with Rose coming back from 2+ lost seasons? This sucker could be wide, wide open). That’s phase 1. And then phase 2 is hope that respectability plus the Phil factor plus the ever present New York and MSG appeal means that when the next really big fish is available (even as soon as Durant 2016) we’re more of a frontrunner and less just trying to get our foot in the door. That’s the hope at least.

    39. The Prescient Cock Jowles

      That is such a perfect distillation of the mainstream opinion on Carmelo.

      I read that one too. “Smh” was the response.

      Note that this is from the COMMENTS section, not from Zach Lowe. Note the use of FG% like a peasant.

    40. DRed

      Peasant?

      “I didn’t know we ‘ad a king! I thought we were an autonomous collective.”

    41. Hubert

      Also this interesting tweet:

      Phil says Melo’s camp is “amenable to what we’re trying to do” w cap. Says there are abt 5 options on table as to how much $ Melo could take

      I also enjoyed Kevin McElroy’s tweet:

      “I’m just imagining Melo looking at the 5 different offers, feigning indecision while knowing he’s taking the biggest one.”

    42. JK47

      It’s pretty sad when settling for a couple of 50-win seasons and maybe a first-round playoff win or two is something we should be happy settling for, and that real title contention is just a mere pipe dream. But that’s where we are. Because Knicks.

    43. JK47

      “Phil says he has texted Melo a few times in the last week and he hasn’t heard back from him.”

      Showing mad respect for the guy with 13 rings.

    44. thenamestsam

      “Phil says he has texted Melo a few times in the last week and he hasn’t heard back from him.”

      Showing mad respect for the guy with 13 rings.

      You know any 68 year olds who can text properly? He probably sent those texts to Carmel Car & Limousine service by accident.

    45. Farfa

      Great composure shown by Cavs’ fans. They’re squatting all over outside of LeBron’s house. Way to not put pressure.

      Cleveland in “crazy girlfriend” mode.

    46. GoNyGoNYGo

      @44 & @46

      Yes. It’s difficult to support Sterling because of his past history. We all know that bigotry has not disappeared from America. It just went private. But that’s really good news. Bigotry spreads when people feel free to express hate. Kids hear it from parents and then grow up to be bigots themselves. With society placing a cap on the use of the “N” word and admonishing people who vocalize it, it will, eventually, disappear or diminish to the point where it’s not a major factor. I probably won’t live long enough to witness that.

      Also, I am sure that Sterling is and was a bigot to some extent. He’s part of that generation that fought desegregation. It was how he was raised. But he is only worse than other bigots because his words went public. He is not the worst of his kind. He didn’t ride around in a white hood, didn’t burn crosses on lawns, didn’t participate in genocide. He’s the same as lots of other people – many around his age. But why would he have won NAACP awards? I don’t think he saw (or sees) himself as a bigot. He would tell you that he didn’t deny housing to Blacks and Hispanics but rather to people who he didn’t trust to pay their rent. I think he’s bigoted, but he would disagree.

      I think the NBA did what it had to do – what society demanded, but they are now dealing with a pathetic man and making an example out of him. I feel sorry for him because of his dementia but I think we need to make him a scapegoat for the betterment of society as a whole.

    47. JK47

      I’m sorry, but fuck Donald Sterling. I don’t feel the least bit sorry for that creep. So he’s having a humiliating public breakdown in part because he suffers from dementia… Well boo hoo. He has spent his lifetime exploiting people in pursuit of a buck, and he was really good at it too. There are many things to be sad about in the world, but watching a greedy racist slumlord get his humiliating comeuppance is not one of them.

    48. ephus

      Donald Sterling won awards from the Los Angeles Chapter of the NAACP because he wrote big checks to take away the stench of the Fair Housing charges against him. My reading of the complaints and documents in those cases make it clear that Donald Sterling pursued a policy of evicting African-Americans and Lations in favor of Koreans because he believed that Koreans made great tenants and African-Americans and Latinos were horrible tenants. Lots of innocent people got stuck living in horrible conditions while he implimented this plan.

      Sometimes bad things (dementia) happen to bad people.

    49. thenamestsam

      Sometimes bad things (dementia) happen to bad people.

      Exactly this. I wouldn’t want what’s happening to him to happen to anyone. But if it has to happen to someone…

    50. Brian Cronin

      He seriously didn’t text Jax back? That’s kind of weird, right? That sounds like the sort of thing anonymous sources would say, not Jax himself. Yeesh.

    51. Brian Cronin

      Yeah, I must say that the candor he has shown so far has been astonishing. I’m so not used to this type of behavior from a Knick employee. Not since the days of JVG have we had someone who will actually just play it straight with the media (while also, of course, using the media for his benefit, but that’s a tradeoff I’ll gladly accept).

    52. Hubert

      Great post by Nate Silver highlighted how not ideal LeBron’s two choices are. I really don’t understand why he boxed himself into Miami or Cleveland. One team is running out of time, the other is years away.

      Should have been us, y’all. Should have been us.

    53. dtrickey

      You guys got it all wrong. Felton meant he’s going to be an elite Penguin Grease, or maybe Pointing Gun

      PG = Penguin God

      Also good write up on the Sterling saga. You Americans and your Litigation put a smile on my face. I know Court isn’t anywhere near as exciting over here. Far too formal……because you know, the Queen demands it.

    54. Brian Cronin

      Yeah, the five contract offer thing is just weird. I guess it could be something like “If you take this much, we could get Player X. If you take this much, we could get Player Y.” And so on and so forth. Five different plans based on what his salary would be. Still seems pretty odd.

    55. tastycakes

      I doubt very much the deals are all that different in terms of monetary outcome, but that they are structurally different.

      e.g., in deal A, Melo takes 5M less in Year 2 to help the team sign up a second star. In another deal, the money is evenly distributed over the lifetime of the deal, etc.

      As Phil pointed out in his press conference, the idea that a ~1% difference is going to change very much in terms of what the team can do down the road is pretty silly.

      I don’t love the idea of the super max for Melo, but it’s better than letting him walk for nothing. It’s only a tragic mistake if there is a no-trade clause in the deal. (Maybe one offer presented him that but for significantly less money… who knows?)

    56. Hubert

      Wow, I hadn’t considered a no trade clause. There’s the potential for a whole new worst case scenario.

    57. JK47

      Yeah, the no-trade clause is pretty huge. I would be pleasantly surprised if Melo’s contract does not include a no-trade clause. If it’s possible to offer Melo in trade to all other NBA teams, you could probably get a bidding war going and fetch a very good return. Melo’s perceived value is that of a max contract player, and there are lots of teams around the league that would want him, especially early in the contract.

      But considering how attached Melo is to the idea of playing in big media markets, I would imagine the contract will certainly have a no-trade clause.

    58. stratomatic

      But the Knicks don’t want to build a nice team. They want to build a champion. It’s hard to see that end game from here.

      I understand what he’s saying in term of the Knicks signing Melo to a max contract. That’s what I have been saying. But in general I don’t think you need to see the end game. IMO Morey, Ainge, and Pop/Buford rarely know what the end game is. What they know is that if they think long term and accumulate undervalued assets they will eventually either get really good or they’ll eventually be able to roll those assets up into a really good team. The key is LONG TERM thinking and valuing assets properly.

      I can’t tell you how encouraged I was by the Knicks NOT moving Amare + Shumpert to the 76ers to create some more space now instead of next year. Practically every fan wants that deal done. Most of the major NY media wants that deal done. But IMO, that’s the exact idiotic thing we’ve been doing for years (including Walsh). We have been trading more long term value for short term gain. The correct long thing to do is to allow Amare to expire, get the space FREE a year later, but still have Shump. Why pay now to accelerate the gratification when we won’t become a serious contender and would put ourselves in a worse position later? The only way that deal makes sense is if there is opportunity now that won’t be present in the future. That would make the space way more valuable now than in the future.

      So for all my negativity, IMO Jackson is 2 for 2.

      That’s 2 more correct moves than we’ve made in many many years.

    59. ephus

      This is Phil asking Carmelo to take ownership of the consequences of his decision. Many here of complained (with good cause) that the system was rigged by the owners in the last CBA and that it is not “fair” for Carmelo to have to sacrifice salary in order to get good teammates. Phil’s 5 contract offers tell Carmelo that he has the power to decide what sort of teammates he wants.

    60. tastycakes

      The problem is that Shump is going to cost more money next year, which is why moving him as sweetener this year is not necessarily a bad idea (if you don’t want to pay him).

      You make that deal with Philly if it clears enough space to let you lock up a superior player. But since we need to clear both STAT AND the Bargage Man, it’s pretty much definitely not gonna happen.

      I’d rather see if Shump can actually take a step forward this year as we all hoped he would last year. He is one of the only guys on the team with actual room to grow, so might as well give it time. His value probably won’t ever be lower than it is today (unless he continues going all Landry Fields on us).

    61. thenoblefacehumper

      I think the Yankees did something similar with Cliff Lee a few years back. The circumstances were obviously vastly different but hopefully it works better for the Knicks. Personally, I love the idea of having Melo indisputably choose what’s more important to him (money or winning/acquiring good teammates). If he does pick the 5/129 though, would it be bad if Phil was like “yeah, okay, um, never mind then. Have fun in LA!”

    62. BigBlueAL

      Im just speculating here but could the Melo delay be waiting for him to show up in Vegas tomorrow and make his return official on the MSG broadcast?? NBATV usually always simulcasts the MSG broadcast of the Knicks Summer League games so it would make some sense if they wanna increase their Summer League ratings lol.

    63. stratomatic

      The problem is that Shump is going to cost more money next year, which is why moving him as sweetener this year is not necessarily a bad idea (if you don’t want to pay him).

      So you trade him for another asset like a pick that is worth equal or more value or as part of a trade for another undervalued asset. Moving him to get rid of Amare now is giving away an asset for free simply to move the same “space asset” we will have next year forward.

    64. DRed

      I think it’s worth hanging on to Shumpert to move him to a contender midseason after hopefully repairing his reputation a bit in the first half.

    65. Brian Cronin

      What the fuck does this even mean?

      Anthony has regained interest in the Bulls

      Regained interest?! Huh?

    66. stratomatic

      I am encouraged by the 5 contract options we supposedly gave to Melo.

      I think that means it is very likely there are a few contracts with discounts in them that would help both the Knicks and help Melo and Phil save face on that issue. The problem of course is that you have to give Melo something to entice him into taking less money.

      I think offering him an early player option might do the trick.

      If you give him an opt out after year #2 or #3, he no longer has to worry about getting stuck in NY in case Phil fails to build a good enough team to contend. He can get the best money, but trade off a discount for further flexibility going forward. You can also tell him that around that time the new NBA deal is due and he can renegotiate AFTER the team is built.

    67. stratomatic

      I want to keep Shumpert also. He’s a negative on offense, but he’s a huge plus on defense and does other things well. I think he has it in him to become better on offense, but he may not be all the way back mentally from the knee issues. If he puts it all together, he can be a starter on a serious contender.

    68. GoNyGoNYGo

      @76 – I so agree with you. And it seems to me that Jax should have been selling (probably was) that the team really wasn’t all that bad, but that the stars aligned wrong all last season. The team was mismanaged and poorly coached (remember that Fisher saying they could have easily squeezed out 8 more wins). They can and will make the playoffs in a weak eastern conference. The chance of getting a second max or near-max player next year is very high. Isn’t Durant coming out? This year, with 1 or 2 more decent pieces, they could challenge (they still need rebounds and defense). Next year they could dominate.

    69. Z

      The team was mismanaged and poorly coached (remember that Fisher saying they could have easily squeezed out 8 more wins). They can and will make the playoffs in a weak eastern conference.

      I don’t know. By the time the dust settles on free agency, the East stands to improve, no? Chicago, Cleveland, Toronto, Washington, Boston, Orlando, Milwaukee, even the Sixers (they can’t actually get worse, can they?). Meanwhile, if the Knicks biggest move is to re-sign Anthony and trade their starting center (and only defensively minded player on a defensively challenged team), then it may be harder than Fish thinks to make up those -8 wins of last year.

    70. GoNyGoNYGo

      I really thing they can turn it around quickly. Even if the Knicks just stay the same, a rotation of Melo, Stat, Calderon, Bargnani, JR, Shump, THJ, Odom, Dalembert, Prigioni and Larkin is interesting. I do expect a trade to happen.

      BTW, Tanaka has a small partial tear of Ulnar Collateral Ligament – but no Tommy John surgery needed. I guess that’s ehhh news.

    71. tastycakes

      THCJ, that thing is making the rounds on twitter… got the impression it was a fake

    72. Hubert

      But considering how attached Melo is to the idea of playing in big media markets, I would imagine the contract will certainly have a no-trade clause.

      No way in hell can you possibly include a no trade clause in a super max contract. He’ll use that to control who we trade him & make sure we don’t get anything good back. No f’n way. You can’t give him that kind of power.

    73. 2FOR18

      Let’s say LeBron goes to the Cavs, and the Cavs do not trade Wiggins for Love. Then let’s say Stevenson leaves Indy.
      Then say the Knicks trade Bargs for Thad Young to the tanking Sixers (according to the trade calculator, that move alone adds 6 wins lol).

      Wouldn’t that make the Knicks legit contenders in the East? Calderon, Shump, melo, Young, Dalembert/Cole, with JR, THJ, STAT, Tyler, Ellington, Larkin.

      Then next year make a run at Millsap, Love, M Gasol, Rondo….

    74. BigBlueAL

      Just read that fake Mo Williams article, still had me cracking up. I liked Thundercats as a little kid but I was more of a He-Man kid myself lol.

    75. Brian Cronin

      He’ll use that to control who we trade him & make sure we don’t get anything good back.

      While true, it seems pretty evident that for whatever reason, Jackson feels that they have to do whatever Melo wants.

      Let’s hope that Melo wants to take a discount!

    76. hoolahoop

      What the fuck does this even mean?

      Anthony has regained interest in the Bulls

      Regained interest?! Huh?

      I think it’s his agents way of saying to PJ, “Don’t even think of lowering the offer”.

    77. JK47

      I mean, if you can sign Melo without a no-trade clause, it’s a no-brainer, even for the megamax. Just flip him in January to the top bidder. That has to be the best way to convert him into assets. I just can’t believe he would ever sign such a contract.

    78. Zanzibar

      While true, it seems pretty evident that for whatever reason, Jackson feels that they have to do whatever Melo wants.

      It’s looking like the reason is related to Phil’s terms of employment: I’ll make you the highest paid coach in NBA history if you’ll make Melo the highest paid player in NBA history. If Phil accepted that deal, he and Melo are really made for each other and I certainly understand how they “connected”. But in a way – and not a positive one – I hope that to be true because, if not, Phil is being exposed as a “rook” in his new job and, let’s be honest, everybody would be saying just that if it weren’t Jax.

    79. Brian Cronin

      I don’t think he’s a rook, I just think it’s a terrible decision. Smart GMs still make terrible decisions now and again. Masai Ujiri amnestied Chris Anderson, after all. He also gave Nene a huge contract and then dealt him to Washington to get out of his initial bad decision but then just gave the guy he traded Nene for the same big contract that he was trying to avoid with Nene in the first place!

    80. Brian Cronin

      One of the most depressing aspects of this whole process is how Melo is practically going out of his way to let the Knicks know that they’re his fallback option. If the Bulls ever somehow got max space (without losing Gibson) or if a space opened up in Miami where he could play with Lebron, he would definitely leave. So he sits around, hoping that something somehow opens up and he doesn’t have to go back to New York (not that he won’t enjoy himself if he goes back, just that it is not a top option).

      While he is definitely coming back, an interesting rumor started tonight that the Bulls were still somehow in it with a plan to sign him to a four year deal with an opt-out after year three where the Bulls would wink wink nudge nudge agree to re-sign him to the max extension at that time. So instead of being a four year, 73 million contract, it’d be an eight year, gazillion dollar contract (or whatever a five-year extension would be three years from now). I don’t believe said rumor, but at least the people making up stories and trying to pass them as real rumors are getting interesting!

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