Statistical Analysis. Humor. Knicks.

Tuesday, September 23, 2014

Knicks Morning News (2014.07.08)

  • [New York Daily News] Carmelo ‘torn’ between Knicks, Lakers, Bulls (Tue, 08 Jul 2014 06:08:31 GMT)
    Carmelo Anthony is “torn” over where to spend the prime years of his career, according to a friend of the Knicks All Star forward. Anthony, 30, is still debating his next move with the Knicks, Lakers and the Bulls as his top three choices, the source claims.

  • [New York Times] Nets’ Low-Key Introduction Reflects New Coach (Tue, 08 Jul 2014 02:36:17 GMT)
    The Nets’ introduction of Lionel Hollins contrasted with the pageantry that accompanied last year’s introduction of Jason Kidd.

  • [New York Times] Testimony in Clippers Case Begins, but Sterling Doesn’t Take the Stand (Tue, 08 Jul 2014 02:29:53 GMT)
    A federal court judge denied a request by Donald Sterling’s lawyers to have the case moved from a state probate court, and Rochelle Sterling scored a series of small victories.

  • [New York Times] On Pro Basketball: N.B.A. Salary Cap Maximizes Free Agents’ Difficulty (Tue, 08 Jul 2014 01:41:41 GMT)
    As Carmelo Anthony, LeBron James and others decide where they want to play next year, the options are not as open as an ex-leader of the players union thinks they should be.

  • [New York Times] Trial Over $2 Bln Clippers Sale Starts With Sterling No-Show (Tue, 08 Jul 2014 00:41:09 GMT)
    The trial over the $2 billion sale of the NBA’s Los Angeles Clippers got off to a rocky start on Monday with the team’s co-owner Donald Sterling skipping proceedings that were delayed several times by legal wrangling and courtroom gamesmanship.

  • 99 comments on “Knicks Morning News (2014.07.08)

    1. danvt

      Looks like I started the whole Josh Smith thread yesterday. Sorry! I thought it was hilarious when people started asking “Is there a rumor?” Nope, just a baked music teacher on vacation. Obviously, we have trust issues with our team. It almost seems inevitable that if we think it, this effed up organization will manifest it. Like, in “Ghost Busters” when Harold Ramis, envisions the destroyer as the Stay Puffed Marshmallow Man.

      Still, I repeat, Phil has not made a mistake yet. Unfortunately, the best strategy for our team is probably a similar roster to last year, and Phil will take a lot of heat (see what I did there) if no changes are in the offing. The easiest thing to do for a restless fan base and a stupefyingly idiotic and craven daily sports media is to give them red meat in the form of Josh Smith. Resist temptation Phil. Let’s watch Amar’e and Shump one more season. Let’s see Bargs reinvent himself in the triangle! If it all goes to hell and it’s layup lines for the other team, so be it. Real fans want real basketball and if it takes a season to get it, fine.

      Oh and btw, the longer “Melodrama 2″ lasts the more I want this fucking guy out of town. I mean seriously, he screwed us when he came here and now here comes the max deal and the glass ceiling. Pack your bags, fake New Yorker. You’re not LBJ or KD. This isn’t an action film peopled with CAA clients. Melo + roster filler means we have to listen to Jowles blow hard after every bad loss, and that there’ll be a shit ton of them. I really may move on this time. I love me some Knicks but when, summer after summer, bloggers do a better job of predicting performance than the actual actors, it may be time for a new hobby.

    2. Farfa

      Like, in “Ghost Busters” when Harold Ramis, envisions the destroyer as the Stay Puffed Marshmallow Man.

      +1

      I love me some Knicks but when, summer after summer, bloggers do a better job of predicting performance than the actual actors, it may be time for a new hobby.

      What an ego stroke for the Prescient one. :-)

    3. Frank

      Oh and btw, the longer “Melodrama 2? lasts the more I want this fucking guy out of town. I mean seriously, he screwed us when he came here and now here comes the max deal and the glass ceiling. Pack your bags, fake New Yorker.

      I’m sick of Melodrama 2 also, but to be fair — this is a big decision for him. He probably is legitimately torn, and quite possibly is not just trying to weasel himself into a better situation.

    4. Frank

      If he does leave, though, I’m looking forward to another “I’m Coming Home” video the first time he plays in the Garden – except this time filled with clips of him getting stuffed by Hibbert, missing game winners, dying on screens, and complaining about the general lack of talent when it was his fault we had no talent left to begin with.

    5. Farfa

      f he does leave, though, I’m looking forward to another “I’m Coming Home” video the first time he plays in the Garden – except this time filled with clips of him getting stuffed by Hibbert, missing game winners, dying on screens, and complaining about the general lack of talent when it was his fault we had no talent left to begin with.

      I also would like an introduction to that video composed by a mix of Woodisms on a dubstep beat.

      You gotta look at that …brrrp ta ta tum …a big part of what we do here …brrp ta tat ta tum …the East is big, man …brrrp brrp tam tam tum… kick him to the curb … trrr brrr ta

    6. Eyal

      Just go to Chicago and let us build a team the right way. There’s a joy in that, even regardless of winning for a year or two.

    7. Hubert

      Wow, Phoenix has missed on two almost essential targets to remain a team like the one they deployed yesteryear (Hawes, Frye). Maybe they’ll take a flyer on Josh Smith? He’s another big who likes to shoot from 3.

      Maybe they want to take a flier on Bargs? :)

      Come on, Phoenix. Did you know he’s a former number 1 pick???

      EDIT: Sorry, should have kept reading. Again. I see everyone made this joke already.

    8. Frank

      Re: Melo to Miami – smarter people at Twitter have basically made it known that it’s essentially impossible. Once Bosh goes to Houston, Miami becomes a cap room team meaning they lose both MLE and BAE so cannot sign McRoberts and Granger with them, meaning they take up ~8MM more cap room. Assuming Lebron at 20, Wade at 14, McRoberts/Granger at 8, Cole at 2, Napier at 1 + 5 holds, there would basically be no room left for Melo unless he’s interested in a humongous pay cut (ie. starting around 15ish). Pretty sure he’s not taking what would be a 50% pay cut to play on a team with a bunch of vet’s minimums and Josh McRoberts manning the middle.

    9. lavor postell

      Maybe they want to take a flier on Bargs? :)

      Come on, Phoenix. Did you know he’s a former number 1 pick???

      EDIT: Sorry, should have kept reading. Again. I see everyone made this joke already.

      It’s alright. Bargs is the gift that keeps on giving except when somebody points out the various opportunity costs of that trade.

    10. ephus

      Lebron’s cap hold is significantly more than $20 million. It is 150% of his last salary, so approximately $29 million. Same for Bosh and Wade. The cap hold stays in place until the player is either renounced, signs a new contract with Miami or signs a new contract with a new team.

      All of the moves made during the July Moritorium take effect when the Moritorium lifts. Miami cannot sign McRoberts to the full MLE or Granger to the BAE until they either sign or renounce Wade, Bosh or Lebron. Right now, those three players have an aggregate cap hold of over $87 million.

    11. ephus

      Never mind my previous post. It is wrong. The maximum cap hold is set at the maximum salary. Sorry for the mistake.

    12. er

      i just looked at the Heat roster:

      Norris Cole
      Justin Hamilton

      are the only ones under contract. How do cap holds work, i may be missunderstanding this because they have 96 million in holds

    13. Hubert

      So, a couple weeks back we all assumed the big 3 were opting out to pressure the Heat into putting a better team together. Right now, it’s looking like they all opted out to force the Heat into giving them more money. Which is fair, just unexpected. Gone are the days of speculating how much money they might all give up to get Kyle Lowry as a teammate. Bosh is getting himself a full max. Wade is rumored to be going from 2 years, $40 million (and then likely retirement) to 4 years, $55 million (and still likely not playing basketball in two years).

      I love me some “stick it to the man”, especially when the man is a cheap fuck like Arison who amnestied one of their own to avoid the luxury tax.

      The only real question is what sort of escape did LeBron arrange for himself. I can’t see him doing a one year deal with the Heat. I can’t see him doing a 5 year megamax either. And I sure as hell don’t see him going to Cleveland or Phoenix.

    14. Loathing

      Like, in “Ghost Busters” when Harold Ramis, envisions the destroyer as the Stay Puffed Marshmallow Man.

      I thought it was Dan Akroyd.

    15. Farfa

      Oh yes you’re right Loathing. Anyway, if Gozer asks Dolan if he is a god, he’ll surely answer yes, so there’s that.

    16. sekou

      God, I need something to happen soon. The talking heads on sports radio are killing me! I do have some musings, and wanted to post for a reality check from sources I trust (i.e., youz guys).

      1. Do people really believe that CLE is a better option for LeBron than MIA? I don’t see a better situation in the NBA for LeBron than MIA, and for some strange reason he is mucking up the entire FA process. Has he just totally forgotten about trying to win championships? That quickly?

      2. If Bosh and then LeBron bail, is Wade gone or does he re-sign and get his money? I can’t help but think that Wade to the Bulls is too good a fit not to consider.

    17. thenamestsam

      Wade is rumored to be going from 2 years, $40 million (and then likely retirement) to 4 years, $55 million (and still likely not playing basketball in two years).

      I posted about this in yesterday’s thread, but I really can’t believe the default assumption here is that Wade is out of the league in 2 years. He was really bad in the finals last year, be he was also an All-Star. He’s not reliable as even a 2nd fiddle these days, but he still averaged 20-5-5 per 36 and is indisputably one of the 4 or 5 best SG in the league. I really don’t understand the assumption that he’s going to be retired in 2 years.

    18. Hubert

      Do you realize the lengths Miami goes to just to make it possible for Wade to be healthy for the playoffs? And even with all that special treatment, he still can’t produce when he gets there!!

      If LeBron & Bosh were to leave, and Wade had to be the Heat’s best player and do what Melo has to do, for example, I think his career would be over by January.

    19. lavor postell

      Replace the name Dwayne wade with amare stoudemire and that’s pretty accurate as to his impact at this point. He played 54 games last year just picking and choosing spots while Lebron did the heavy lifting. He’s at best an 8m/yr guy at this point on a 2-3 year deal. Instead he’s going to get paid 8 figures because of his stature within the organization. That’s what’s really killing Miami and not allowing them to address their lack of depth and athleticism. Not Lebron asking for the max he deserves.

    20. yellowboy90

      What goes into the Free Agency pitch basketball wise? Do they do a statistical player analysis and how that player fits into the team?

    21. Hubert

      What goes into the Free Agency pitch basketball wise?

      As far as I can tell, it requires photoshop, a premade video from your biggest celebrity fan, and some former players telling you how great it is to play here.

      And then it comes down to $, who your teammates will be, and whether or not you trust the man running the show. The Knicks went from Dolan to Phil in the final category, which is why many people would rather let Melo go and see who we can get with someone decent in charge. But the concern then is who your teammates will be. Which is why Melo on a flexible deal is coveted by some ’round here.

    22. Farfa

      is indisputably one of the 4 or 5 best SG in the league

      Yes, but I’d like to put down that list: Harden (yikes), Beal, Thompson, Matthews, Wade, Afflalo, Redick? (can’t put Kobe anywhere, we don’t know if he’ll ever be back). Not exactly a murderer’s row.

    23. Farfa

      As far as I can tell, it requires photoshop, a premade video from your biggest celebrity fan, and some former players telling you how great it is to play here.

      I want to see the Aaron Gray pitch in Detroit.

    24. danvt

      1. Do people really believe that CLE is a better option for LeBron than MIA? I don’t see a better situation in the NBA for LeBron than MIA, and for some strange reason he is mucking up the entire FA process. Has he just totally forgotten about trying to win championships? That quickly?
      I can’t believe he’d want to go to CLE. They whiffed on the #1 pick last summer and he already escaped there once and doesn’t want to take that hit twice. Plus, the owner was a total douche in summer 2010. Just leverage against MIA. Riles has earned the right to a re-tool and LBJ should stop being a tool. Gimme a break with this” They cut Mike Miller” crap. Just come in at a good number and let the rest of the league get on with it.

      2. If Bosh and then LeBron bail, is Wade gone or does he re-sign and get his money? I can’t help but think that Wade to the Bulls is too good a fit not to consider.
      Wade may be the classic example of a guy who earned his next paycheck with his last one. The problem is he has to earn the next one. Consensus from the mugged NYK fans on this site, who’ve been victimized by this type of scenario over and over, is that max money for Wade is not a good investment.

    25. Hubert

      As far as I can tell, it requires photoshop, a premade video from your biggest celebrity fan, and some former players telling you how great it is to play here.

      As an aside, anyone remember that episode of Entourage when Vince was holding agency auditions and every place he went to had the same generic presentation for him, and they just cut & pasted his name and face into it?

      That’s kinda what I imagine an NBA free agency pitch is like.

    26. thenamestsam

      Do you realize the lengths Miami goes to just to make it possible for Wade to be healthy for the playoffs? And even with all that special treatment, he still can’t produce when he gets there!!

      I absolutely do, but his playoff non-production was 19-4-4 per 36. Not studly and not good enough to be the 2nd best player on a top-heavy team trying to win it all, but not exactly stats that scream “I’m on my way out of the league”. He can’t carry a team anymore and his next contract is almost certainly going to be a hinderance to his team unless his game bounces back in a big way (not unprecedented, people were writing Manu’s obituary the exact same way after last year’s playoffs), but there’s still a long way between “All-Star no longer capable of carrying a team” and “out of the league” and I feel like people are effectively conflating them. Everyone remembers that the Heat won the title 13 months ago right?

    27. Hubert

      Wade has always depended on his athleticism for his production, though.

      Look at Amare’s numbers when health. He was 19-8-1 per 36 last year. No one expects him to be a useful player in 2 years. But he has to use his athleticism to produce them, and he can’t keep doing that so he breaks down. The more he produces, the less likely he will be able to continue to produce.

      That’s what I expect from Wade at this point.

    28. Garson

      Can someone please explain the logic behind the rumors of moving Stat + Shump ?

      Isnt Stat coming off the books this year and a huge trade asset ?
      I am a big fan of Shump , but even if Phil isnt into him, he should have some value down the stretch to a contending team needing a defensive plug…

      The only reason i would be okay doing this is if it clears space for Lebron and Melo, however from what i am told, as long as Bargs is around, its impossible.

      So at the end of the day , are we really dumping 2 assets for a shot to overpay for Pau Gasol , so we can then overpay for Melo?

    29. thenamestsam

      Isnt Stat coming off the books this year and a huge trade asset ?

      I think the reality is that this part just isn’t true any more. A few years ago a huge expiring would have been a legit asset, but that just isn’t the case at the moment. Shorter contracts (and arguably smarter management) have made it so more teams have cap space – which dramatically reduces the value of expiring contracts, since teams don’t need to trade for them to get space. The days when an expiring contract was a huge trade chip seem to be firmly in the past.

    30. Hubert

      Isnt Stat coming off the books this year and a huge trade asset ?

      Not really. All you can get for STAT is players on really bad long term deals, like Tyreke Evans, Eric Gordon, and Josh…never mind.

      Years ago, expiring contracts were huge trade chips because there were a lot of expensive, long term deals people wanted to get out of so they could get under the cap. Nowadays there aren’t as many, and most teams can get under the cap within 1-2 years. I looked at every single team in the NBA yesterday trying to find a guy I might want to trade that expiring contract for. Couldn’t find one.

    31. ephus

      Isnt Stat coming off the books this year and a huge trade asset ?

      Yes and no.
      Yes, STAT is coming off the books this year.
      No, he is not a huge trade asset under the current CBA. Under the old CBA, a big expiring contract was a valuable trade chip, because it allowed a team to take another team’s bad contracts along with some assets (young players, picks) as sweeteners. Or to match salaries to trade for a disgruntled star (Vince Carter) who still had years left on his contract. Back then, free agents regularly received 5 and 6 year contracts, so teams were often stuck with 3 or 4 years to erase with a big expiring contract.

      Under the new CBA, there are very contracts longer than 4 years. Ordinarily, a team does not want a divorce from a player during the first two years of a contract (Josh Smith, Larry Sanders and Tyreke Evans are the exceptions). So a “bad contract” today usually only has two seasons left to run.

      Last year, Okafor ($14 million) was the only big expiring contract to draw a first round pick. Pau Gasol ($19 million) was allowed to expire. Granger ($14 million) plus a second round pick were traded for expiring deals.

    32. Garson

      Thanks for the clarity… So everyone is on board with trading Stat and Shump to make room for Pau?

      Truth is , my dream scenerio is a core of as many international players as possible… so if Calderon leads to Pau , which leads to Marc and etc, im on board with that..

    33. Frank

      by the way – not that I believe some random dude from the RealGM message boards, but this Carl2680 was the one who broke the Jason Kidd story. To make a long story short Carl thinks Melo is re-signing and that an Amare trade is already in the works.

      Here’s a summary of what he’s been saying — http://theknickswall.com/2014/07/08/carl2680-sees-future/

      Normally I wouldn’t make much of this but Alan Hahn, in his most recent Knicks Fix, also addressed the idea of an Amare + young asset salary dump to get a second “star” to play with Melo. Hahn is very well connected in this league (as he alludes to in his memory piece about the Decision – he was the first non-Stephen A guy to get it right) — and did say on his radio show and on Twitter well before the Tyson trade that Tyson was a key person to keep an eye on in terms of moves that Phil might make. So I think Hahn is tied into things around the league and especially with the Knicks.

      Anyway – the way he writes that last part about Amare somehow makes me think he has heard things and can’t report on them (yet) either because he’s not sure or because he’s an MSG employee.

      Here’s the link:
      http://www.msg.com/teams/knicks/knicks-fix/the-knicks-fix-the-story-behind-the-decision.html

    34. Hubert

      By the way, you know what the one Amar’e trade I found that I feared the absolute most? Not Josh Smith. Not Gordon & Evans.

      What if Prokorov got sick and tired of paying the luxury tax (reports indicate he is) and offered Deron Williams for Amar’e Stoudemire?

    35. SJK

      So according to those rumors: the plan would be to dump Amar’e using Shump as sweetener, thereby getting us under the apron and allowing us to use the MLE on Gasol and the BAE on another player? Who are realistic BAE targets… Kris Humphries?

      Is it really worth giving up on Shump for that? Would much rather trade THJ as his skill set is redundant with some other guys we have, while Shump’s is not.

    36. Hubert

      The only reason i would be okay doing this is if it clears space for Lebron and Melo, however from what i am told, as long as Bargs is around, its impossible.

      If you could use Shump to unload STAT, I’m sure you could use Hardaway to unload AB. Find a taker for Prigioni, and now you’ve got near two max slots right now, a starting 5 of LeBron, Melo, Dalembert, Calderon, JR. Plus the full MLE and (I think) the BAE (assuming we didn’t use it last summer.

      I don’t believe for a second, though, that Shumpert is enough to bribe Philly to take Amar’e.

    37. johnno

      And under the heading “Comic Relief,” there’s an article on ESPNDallas in which Raymond Felton is quoted as saying that he is “out to prove that he can still perform at an elite level.” I watch a lot of games. I must have missed the one in which he performed at an elite level.

    38. Hubert

      He was an elite producer of offensive rebound opportunities. Even better than D Rose.

    39. Hubert

      If we used Shump to shed Amar’e, and Melo signed for no discount, you’re looking at about $3-5 million of cap room.

      I don’t know if we’d still be able to use that room and then use the MLE. But I’m sure Ephus does.

      However, Bargnani’s salary can be stretched from $11.5mm this year to $3.8mm over 3 years. Then you are looking at $10mm in cap space this summer, and possibly the MLE, and definitely the BAE.

      And, of course, if Melo took any less, that $10mm goes up.

    40. Hubert

      The question, of course, becomes: who would we use that on? Trading Shumpert to pay Gasol $10mm makes no sense to me. Using the full MLE of Gasol makes sense. But who do you use the cap space on? Lance Stephenson? That’s a scary thought.

    41. Donnie Walsh

      Woj doesn’t seem to put the Knicks on the list of teams Pau is playing for next year. (He has Spurs, Bulls, Thunder, or Lakers)

    42. bidiong

      So we’d have to shed bargs somehow. I wonder if we could get close to the max if we could entice Bosh to come to NY. I think he’d make a good fit with Melo in the triangle.

    43. yellowboy90

      What would be crazy if Phil convinces Flip that Hardaway jr is the next Klay Thompson and snags love in a trade

    44. Farfa

      Only player really worth chasing in free agency apart from the usual suspects: Eric Bledsoe. Problem is he’s not a triangle player.

    45. Hubert

      And he’s restricted. Anything we could offer would be matched.

      I honestly can’t even see what we might do with the space if we traded Amar’e and Shumpert to Philly. Assuming it’s a fake rumor.

    46. Garson

      Hubert,

      Exactly my point from earlier… I would rather hold on let amare expire and see what we have in Triangle version of Shump, I dont think his value can be any lower then it is now.

    47. hoolahoop

      Signing Melo to the max and dumping Amare now will be the beginning of the horrible Phil Jackson era. Bad moves.
      There’s absolutely no reason to offer Melo that much. The knicks are negotiating against themselves.
      If the second half of last season in any indication, Amare is capable of a great season.

    48. Kahnzy

      Amare is capable of a great season.

      While I’d certainly like to believe that, and if he’s around next season I’ll definitely be rooting for him, I have my doubts that he can sustain it for an entire season.

      Either way, I’m in the “let’s just let him expire” camp because, as others have already noted, unless we have a realistic shot at LeBron I just don’t see anyone out there this year that’s worth losing our younger players just yet. Not that I’m married to either Shump or TH2, but if we’re gonna trade them let’s at least make it worthwhile.

    49. dtrickey

      Like, in “Ghost Busters” when Harold Ramis, envisions the destroyer as the Stay Puffed Marshmallow Man.

      There is no Josh Smith, only Zuul…..

    50. ptmilo

      Amar’e is in no way capable of a great season. He has reliably downtrended from a well below average defender to one of the worst defenders in the league. He is capable of putting up good (not great) offensive numbers as one of the worst defenders in the league. That is a million miles from a max money season and it is best case.

    51. Kahnzy

      That is a million miles from a max money season and it is best case.

      I don’t think he meant to argue that Amar’e could be worth his contract next season (as I doubt any sane person could truly believe), but I think he meant that Amar’e is capable of playing better than anyone we could get as a replacement this season via FA.

      Then again, maybe I’m just putting words in his mouth and I’ve got it completely wrong.

    52. er

      Question , why is it ok to be an Amare fanboy but not a Melo fanboy. I’m neither but I’ve had the accusation of being a Melo fanboy lobbed at me like it was a dirty word. Yet ppl are openly Stat fanboys here. Interesting

    53. Alecto

      I think only one person here is an Amar’e fanboy. Also we’re not offering Amar’e max money on a new contract and we’re likely stuck with him so it makes sense to root for him. He’s going to be bad though. Just like how Melo on a max would be bad.

      He’s way more likable than Melo though.

    54. Garson

      For me , melo vs amare likability came down to the following

      Amare was the man before melo got here.. Got all the attention , shots and even some MVP votes. Since then it trickled down to starting , with reduced media coverage , then less shots , all the way down to less minutes off the bench. He never opened his mouth….

      Melo on the other hand saw a similar situation in jermey Lin capturing all the fanfare , MVP chants and actually leading us to some entertaining energy filled ball games and responded with childish antics when he was asked to blend in… Eventually pushing d antoni to resign and killing linsanity

    55. Will the Thrill

      Obviously Amar’e is more likable, but he isn’t very good at basketball anymore. Since he’s gone after next year though, I don’t think anybody is going to complain about him. The complaining and harping on Amar’e was done when it was warranted (the 2nd year of his contract) and it would be pretty pointless to still be bringing up how he hasn’t earned his contract every day.

    56. Will the Thrill

      Melo could greatly hinder our chances for a championship in the future, and Amar’e can’t (unless Phil does something crazy).

    57. lavor postell

      Amazing that Melo killed Linsanity and it’s never been revived.

      He didn’t quit on Linsanity. He quit on D’Antoni sucking at communicating and switching his role on that team like 15 times. MDA clearly has an issue effectively communicating with star players since he’s gone on to piss off Dwight and Kobe.

      Was it wrong for Melo to quit on the team? Yeah it definitely was, but D’Antoni wasn’t some saint preaching about the sanctity of basketball without attempting his own power play by asking management to trade Melo for fucking Deron Williams.

    58. yellowboy90

      Did Melo quit or just say he needed to try harder. Who cares though.

      Sidenote: It’s amazing that the linsanity team will all be gone if Shump is traded. Hopefully a few of them pick their games up or they’ll all be apart of a where are they now piece.

    59. danvt

      “There is no Josh Smith, only Zuul…..”
      I’m giggling

      “Amar’e is in no way capable of a great season. He has reliably downtrended from a well below average defender to one of the worst defenders in the league. He is capable of putting up good (not great) offensive numbers as one of the worst defenders in the league. That is a million miles from a max money season and it is best case.”

      I think this is the sad truth. He definitely scores beautifully. But his defense is the equivalent Chris Dudley’s free throw stroke.

    60. BigBlueAL

      Best part is Melo is a ballhogging loser but Amare is capable of having a great season next year. OK.

    61. maxwell_3g

      Ive got to say, this is some BS. Im so over Carmelo (and quite frankly the rest of these “superstars” who cant make a career decision without knowing what each other are doing). I don’t want any of them, which includes melo, bosh, Lebron, Wade, etc. They all need to grow a pair. back to Melo, we have offered him the max, and instead he wants to sit on the offer and figure out what lebron and bosh are going to do, and if he can slob LeKnob next season. Phil should offer the max (or hopefully less) tonight. each day he sits on the offer, 10 mill off the contract offer. if he wants to go to LAL, laugh at him. if he wants to go to chicago, he can ask us for a s&T and I will be happy with that. if he want to go to Miami, I dont want him anyways.

    62. hoolahoop

      Best part is Melo is a ballhogging loser but Amare is capable of having a great season next year.

      Amare knows how to play in a ball movement offense. Team basketball. Plays well with others. He thrives in that situation. That’s the highest level of basketball. Spurs are exhibit A.
      Melo is a great scorer. He’s an incredibly talented ball hogging, ball stopping shooter. That will get you to the second round of the playoffs if you’re lucky.

      Where are all the Melo suitors?

    63. hoolahoop

      Someone please explain to me why the knicks would offer Melo $129/5.

      Houston, Chicago and Dallas appear to be out of the running. LA, offering $96/4, is horrible and Kobe will be a shadow of himself.
      I don’t get it.

    64. hoolahoop

      Amare’s next assist will be the 1st of his career I think.

      What are you talking about. Amare always passed until this past season. Woodson was against ball movement.

    65. DRed

      Houston, Chicago and Dallas appear to be out of the running. LA, offering $96/4, is horrible and Kobe will be a shadow of himself.
      I don’t get it.

      This is why I said it was okay that Melo wanted to test FA. The cities he seems willing to go to either can’t free up max money and stay good or are the Lakers, who have that terrible albatross of a Kobe deal. Offer him 4/80 and tell him to go to LA and lose if he needs that extra cash.

    66. Brian Cronin

      Fisher on his meeting with Melo:

      “He wants to win, wants to be successful,” Fisher told reporters of Anthony. “The time I had the visit with him I just shared with him we’ll be a better basketball team because we’ll play the game a better way, play as a team, play with a system and format to allow the game to be easier for him for him and his teammates.

      “I’m not sure if it hit home,” Fisher added. “I guess we’ll find out. Hopefully we’ll find out soon.”

      Yikes. Not a fan of that “I’m not sure if it hit home” comment. Not a good sign if Fisher is saying stuff like that. You can tell that the Knicks are a bit mystified/irked/worried that they haven’t heard anything back from Melo yet.

    67. maxwell_3g

      why not a fan of that Brian. if he doesnt really want to be here, should we really want him. arent we better off without a maxed out one way star who isnt really buying into the system??

    68. lavor postell

      What are you talking about. Amare always passed until this past season. Woodson was against ball movement.

      What? Just because there was ball movement in the offense doesn’t really mean STAT was whipping passes around the court. He was basically used like Chandler as the roll man in the high PNR which initiated the offense. If he was open on his rim run he got the ball and finished. If he wasn’t the PG dribbled around looking for shooters and initiated perimeter ball movement. He has a career 7.0 AST% compared to ballhog Melo’s 15.2 AST%.

    69. lavor postell

      Honestly that comment from Fisher sounds a lot like his comment in his introductory press conference where he said they want to give Melo something to think about even if he’s already made a decision. Also it’s natural the Knicks would be getting nervous, but I also think they’re confident in their position and that if Melo leaves for the Lakers they’ll be fine.

      Personally Melo walking would kind of suck but I agree with what maxwell_3g said above. All these guys are getting so annoying with their decision making process and waffling and need to have their dicks sucked by ESPN for 10 fucking days. I get that it’s an important decision but I’m not sure then why Melo rushed through 3 days of meetings last week and had to meet with the Knicks immediately after his Laker meeting last Thursday. Give me a break.

    70. Brian Cronin

      why not a fan of that Brian. if he doesnt really want to be here, should we really want him. arent we better off without a maxed out one way star who isnt really buying into the system??

      I’m not a fan of that comment because it suggests that Melo might not be buying into the system. It’s disappointing.

    71. dtrickey

      I think the media are the FA’s worst enemy when it comes to players decision making process. So many reports on ‘rumors’ and unknown ‘sources’. Just report back when they’ve signed on the dotted line and leave the speculation and fantasy up to us ha ha.

      The STAT talks also irk me a bit. I can see why moving him is potentially a good move, but I just feel like there’s some bad karma attached to that move. I don’t think anyone is in doubt as to whether he’s worth the contract, but as far as a role player goes, I gotta agree that Amare can be valuable for us if up and about. I wouldn’t have a problem with him just playing out his contract.

    72. lavor postell

      Melo always strikes me as being somebody who is a product of his environment. I imagine he’s an awesome guy when he’s with friends and good high IQ guys around him. He’s also probably an insufferable douchebag when he’s surrounded by CAA, Worldwide Wes and whoever the fuck else makes up his crew of “advisors”.

      Everything that we’ve heard through this process just makes me feel the same way. Every time he meets with Phil Jackson and the Knicks we hear about how he’s aligned with the Knicks and he loves Phil and likes his vision and buys into the system. As soon as he’s out of contact with the Knicks for a few days we hear about how Chicago’s presentation “wowed” him and how the Lakers are so tempting because Magic Johnson whispered sweet nothings for 2 minutes in between crap games in Monte Carlo.

    73. Donnie Walsh

      Amar’e assisted a lot of Landry Fields’s easy baskets back in 2010. They had great on-court chemistry.

      Then Anthony arrived, and nobody passed to Fields anymore. Not Melo, not Billups, and, strangely, not Amar’e.

      It’s Melo Ball. Play it or STFD!

    74. lavor postell

      Amar’e assisted a lot of Landry Fields’s easy baskets back in 2010. They had great on-court chemistry.

      Then Anthony arrived, and nobody passed to Fields anymore. Not Melo, not Billups, and, strangely, not Amar’e.

      It’s Melo Ball. Play it or STFD!

      That season Amar’e had a 13.2 AST%. Only once in Carmelo’s career has he posted an AST% lower than that which was back in 04-05 when he posted a 13.1 AST%. Before that 10-11 season STAT’s previous high mark was an 8.3 AST% in 08-09.

    75. JK47

      Then Anthony arrived, and nobody passed to Fields anymore. Not Melo, not Billups, and, strangely, not Amar’e.

      And then he went to Toronto and nobody passed to him there either. And then the next season nobody passed to him again, mainly because he only got on the floor for 322 minutes. If only people would have passed to him he would have kept rattling in those line drive jumpers.

    76. yellowboy90

      why not a fan of that Brian. if he doesnt really want to be here, should we really want him. arent we better off without a maxed out one way star who isnt really buying into the system??

      I’m not a fan of that comment because it suggests that Melo might not be buying into the system. It’s disappointing.

      Maybe or he does not trust the roster and believe that the system can possibly help them.
      I just have a feeling they all know whats going on and are waiting for something to drop to work out the contract. If a move is made Melo will take a cut to make room for a FA but if not he’ll take the max or close to it.

    77. Robtachi

      I think in trying to deal Amar’e and Borg-Nanny’s contracts, Phil is realizing that the cap space those expirings will create is almost worthless next off-season. With the news that Aldridge plans to sign an extension this upcoming season, and given that Love looks poised to force a trade to a destination of his choosing where he’ll presumably sign an extension to stay, the UFA class for next year looks absolutely abysmal with very little impactful talent likely available. It’s pretty much Gasol the Younger, Millsap, Tyson Chandler, Jefferson (if he opts out) and Rondo, and I question the prudence in signing any of those guys to max or big money contracts. Compare that to this year – LeBron, Anthony, Bosh, Deng and others are in play. This is the year to make space and use up that cap money. If there is any conceivable way for Phil to shed Amar’e and Bag-lady, he should do it, and try to get any two of the more worthy FAs this summer rather than wait until next.

      I wish the NBA had a tool like hockey has in CapGeek.com, where you can play armchair GM and see what rosters are cap-viable. I’d like to know if there is any cap scenario, likely or not, that our heroes could fit LeBron and Melo in.

    78. Brian Cronin

      If the Knicks can unload both STAT and Bargs without taking on any salary in the process, then they can create enough cap room to have room for Melo and Lebron both at $20 million salaries in Year 1 (which would actually be less than Melo could get at the max, but let’s presume for the sake of argument that he’s willing to sign for the same amount as Lebron’s max salary).

      However, presumably such a deal would require THJ and Shump to be traded as sweeteners.

      That would give the Knicks a lineup of:

      Calderon
      JR
      Lebron
      Melo
      Dalembart

      with Prigs, Larkin, Ellington and Odom off the bench. Although in that scenario they’d have the room exception to sign somebody.

      Obviously a playoff team, but I dunno about a championship contender.

      Interestingly, another way they could do it is to package THJ as the sweetener with STAT and then use the stretch provision on Bargs and cut Dalembart’s non-guaranteed contract. That gives you just enough money to sign Melo and Lebron to roughly $20 million deals.

      That would leave them with only the room exception to get a center, but they’d have Shump still (which would be useful for defensive purposes).

      Or perhaps trade JR for cap space (a possibility when Ben Gordon is making $4.5 million next year) and just keep Bargs? That also barely does it.

    79. er

      Amar’e assisted a lot of Landry Fields’s easy baskets back in 2010. They had great on-court chemistry.

      Then Anthony arrived, and nobody passed to Fields anymore. Not Melo, not Billups, and, strangely, not Amar’e.

      It’s Melo Ball. Play it or STFD!

      Are we still on the ” Melo sucked the life out of Landry Fields’ game?” Some of you need help…seriously.

    80. er

      Charlotte has agreed to a 4-year, $63M maximum offer sheet with Utah RFA Gordon Hayward, league sources tell Yahoo Sports.

      –haha damn.

    81. Zanzibar

      Hey Night Owls – This whole situation is starting to make sense. Bron will end up in Cleveland joined by one of Melo/Bosh/Love to form the Big 3 including Kyrie. Irving’s salary is 7m this season. Subtract that 7m and Cavs have about 28m in salary tied up in mostly tradable contracts. They have a couple of bad contracts in Jack(6m) and Bennett(5m) but Bennett’s could be dropped in summer of 2015 (team option). Example: Kyrie(7m)/Bron(20m)/Love(16) = 43m. Maybe add Lance at 10m and a center like Jordan Hill or Humphries (5-6m) = 58m. Cavs would have 2.7m room exception and likely would attract a couple of excellent vet min players.

      So question is who would be the 3rd piece in their Big 3 – Melo, Bosh or Love? Cleveland could free up cap in many different ways since they have some attractive young players: direct trade (Minnesota), S&T (Knicks/Heat), or outright signing (after sending players to a below cap team). If Gilbert is willing to pay the luxury tax in future years, Cavs could be a powerhouse.

    82. yellowboy90

      4/$63M offer sheet for Heyward from Jordan. Teams must not like Stephenson or Parsons.

    83. BigBlueAL

      Apparently the Mavs are prepared to offer Parsons a huge deal but all signs point to the Rockets matching any deal he gets. Crickets on Stephenson though.

    84. Brian Cronin

      Yeah, Parsons knows that the Rockets will be bringing him back at a good number, so it behooves him to not screw them over by signing an offer sheet from a competitor.

      EDITED TO ADD: Now, if someone offers him a max contract, then sure, fuck Houston over. But I don’t believe anyone is offering him that much money.

    85. Robtachi

      I just think it’s hilarious that the Jazz quibbled over a difference of $1 MM/year for Hayward’s extension earlier in January, and now they’re gonna have to pay him $4 MM/year more than they wanted just to keep him. Whoops.

      That would give the Knicks a lineup of:

      Calderon
      JR
      Lebron
      Melo
      Dalembart

      with Prigs, Larkin, Ellington and Odom off the bench. Although in that scenario they’d have the room exception to sign somebody.

      Obviously a playoff team, but I dunno about a championship contender.

      If you ask me, any team with LeBron and other solid vets is a championship contender, so yes, while that roster is no slam dunk for a Finals trip, I like their chances better than anything else the Knicks could put together this year. It would also establish the LeBron-Melo foundation for the next few years, as they wouldn’t have any truly untradeable contracts and would maintain some flexibility to pick up ancillary pieces next summer.

    86. ptmilo

      What are you talking about. Amare always passed until this past season. Woodson was against ball movement.

      Good one. There is literally one other player in the history of the NBA who has played >5000 minutes, averaged 20 or more points per 36, but fewer assists per 36 than Stoudemire for his career: Moses Malone. And only by a whisker.

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