Statistical Analysis. Humor. Knicks.

Thursday, July 24, 2014

Knicks Morning News (2014.06.09)

  • [New York Times] Heat Level Finals Series With Spurs (Mon, 09 Jun 2014 05:49:14 GMT)
    LeBron James bounced back from the cramps that forced him out of the NBA Finals opener by scoring 35 points to lead the Miami Heat to a 98-96 win over the San Antonio Spurs on Sunday and even the series at one game each.

  • [New York Times] Sterling Suit Against NBA Holds Up Clippers’ Sale, Commissioner Says (Mon, 09 Jun 2014 04:58:13 GMT)
    National Basketball Association Commissioner Adam Silver said on Sunday a single obstacle blocked completion of the $2-billion sale of the Los Angeles Clippers – a lawsuit brought by embattled owner Donald Sterling against the league.

  • [New York Times] Heat 98, Spurs 96: James and the Heat Coolly Even the N.B.A. Finals (Mon, 09 Jun 2014 04:54:29 GMT)
    The air-conditioning system at AT&T Center was working Sunday night as LeBron James scored 35 points to help the Heat even the N.B.A. finals at a game apiece.

  • [New York Times] Heat Level Finals Series With Spurs (Mon, 09 Jun 2014 03:34:13 GMT)
    The NBA champion Miami Heat, boosted by LeBron James’ 35 points defeated the San Antonio Spurs 98-96 in the NBA Finals on Sunday to level the best-of-seven series at one game each.

  • [New York Times] Sterling’s Ban and Fine Won’t Change, Silver Says (Mon, 09 Jun 2014 02:58:37 GMT)
    The process of removing the Clippers owner Donald Sterling from the N.B.A. is nearing an end, Commissioner Adam Silver said Sunday.

  • [New York Times] 3-Pointer No Longer Domain of Small Players in N.B.A. (Mon, 09 Jun 2014 02:05:31 GMT)
    The Heat and the Spurs are prime examples of how the game has evolved after the introduction of the long-range shot.

  • [New York Times] Spurs and Heat Tied at 43-43 at the Half (Mon, 09 Jun 2014 01:37:14 GMT)
    The San Antonio Spurs and the Miami Heat were tied 43-43 at halftime of Game Two of the NBA Finals on Sunday.

  • [New York Times] Silver: NBA’s Fight With Sterling Almost Over (Mon, 09 Jun 2014 00:28:29 GMT)
    Donald Sterling hasn’t quite given up the fight, but Adam Silver thinks the time is coming.

  • 50 comments on “Knicks Morning News (2014.06.09)

    1. Sakei99

      Some of the commentary here on Jordan is just silly and uninformed.
      1. The 6 for 6 argument isn’t very good, as shown by the Horry comment earlier.
      2. Lebron’s playoff efficiency is simply better than Jordan’s
      3. In the playoffs and regular season, Lebron gets more assists and rebounds per 36
      4. Yes Jordan scored about 5 points more per 36 in the playoffs, but his usage was at 35.6, while Lebron’s was at 31, and again Lebron’s efficiency is simply better.
      5. Those who talk about Lebron as he ages…Geez folks, Lebron is in his 11th season, and his 10th and 11th were his best, while Jordan, who only played 15 seasons, was already well into his decline.
      6. And in this, his 11th season, Lebron is posting in this playoff a TS% of .666 and a eFG% of .611, numbers Jordan never came even remotely close to.

      Lebron is a more efficient scorer, a better passer, better rebounder, better from 3. Jordan is slightly better at steals, but is better in foul shooting.

      All excellent points and worth repeating. Here’s one moar for the hell of it:

      Bulls with Jordan: 57-25 (2nd in East)
      Bulls post Jordan “retirement”: 55-27 (3rd in East)
      Cavs with the King: 61-21 (1st in East)
      Cavs post King: 19-63 (15th and dead last in East)

      But yea lets keep pretending Jordan did it all his own.

    2. Owen

      Bulls with Jordan: 57-25 (2nd in East)
      Bulls post Jordan “retirement”: 55-27 (3rd in East)

      Bulls SRS with Jordan in Championship year 3 –> 6.19
      Bulls SRS w/o Jordan after Championship year 3> 2.87 (11th of 27)
      Bulls SRS with Jordan for part of the year in 95-> 4.31
      Bulls SRS with Jordan in Championship year 4-> 11.80

      Lebron SRS 2008-2009 Cavaliers —> 8.68

      Personally, I think dragging Ilgauskas, Boobie, Mo, and Delonte to 66 wins (with a little help from Anderson) is up there with the most impressive achievements in NBA history. Or taking the 2007 team to the finals, which was an awful team. But there is really no clear cut statistical argument that the King really deserves the crown more than His Airness….

    3. Farfa

      Guys, if we look deep and hard enough, maybe we’ll find a stat which says that Felton has been the best playmaker of the post-Magic era (yes, maybe the stat will be “true cheeseburger efficiency”, but whatever).

      I see no point in comparing this hard players from different eras. As I see no point in comparing this hard anything from different eras. Is Matthew McConaughey a better actor than Lawrence Olivier? Are Radiohead better than Led Zeppelin? Was Napoleon better than Leonidas?

      It is a fun exercise, but if you have to trade advanced stats blows, I don’t think we’ll get to any conclusion any soon. Not that I think we should come to any conclusion. Let’s appreciate (or hate, or whatever) what we have, and let’s share our points of view.

      And again: what is this “crown”? And another thought: what if LeBron played west? Wouldn’t grueling series after grueling series have taken a toll on his body more than what happened the last two years?

      There is only one way (if he cares about it, which I seriously doubt; if I were in his shoes I probably wouldn’t really care) for LeBron to be “crowned” the best evah: go back to Cleveland and win at least a title there. Perfect narrative, perfect outcome: local folk hero rises, falls, experiences the hatred of his brethren, goes in self-imposed exile (ok this is a stretch), vanquishes multiple foes, repents and redeems and wins it all for his populace. There you have it. As a narrative sucker, this would definitely be it.

    4. lavor postell

      For me I’ll always take Jordan over Lebron because, as silly as it sounds, his game for me was more aesthetically pleasing and skilled. Lebron has definitely improved his skill level in the post and mid-range, but it’s all predicated on his sheer size, strength and explosiveness. Jordan was obviously a supreme athlete when he entered the league, but his last 3 championship years with the Bulls was much less a high flying act and more of an exhibition of perfect footwork and execution offensively. In particular his mid-range game was a work of art that I haven’t seen replicated since in it’s fluidity and beauty. He had moves and for all of his moves he had counters and for all of his counters he another counter.

      In my eyes it would 3-4 more high level seasons for Lebron to really challenge the Jordan crown. At this point in his career he’s a top-6 player and fast approaching the “Mount Rushmore” and GOAT status. His career is still young and a work in progress, albeit a damn good one. I can’t put him ahead of MJ, Kareem, Russell or Magic. I think if his career ended today he’d be on the same level as Bird, Duncan and Wilt. It’s hard to really debate Lebron vs. Jordan, because right now we are projecting what his career will look like when it ends, but when I’m answering that question I’m trying to only look at what Lebron has accomplished to this point in his career and in that sense I don’t think we can crown him yet. When it’s all said and done though, I think the debate between him and Jordan will be one that rages on for a long time.

    5. Sakei99

      For that matter I’ll always take Jason Williams above Jordan while I’m at it as well. Since I find his behind the backs dribbling, double clutch behind the back pass, and backwards elbow pass all to be the most aesthetically pleasing thing I’ve ever witnessed on an NBA court.

      Actually scratch that, since were judging by aesthetically pleasing I nominate Phil “Hot Sauce” Champion for GOAT. I mean sure he never made the NBA, but he could do things with a basketball that would make you dry off with a boxful of Kleenex and he made his opponents look stupid, and that’s what defines a Champion. Well that and his name.

    6. lavor postell

      @5

      When I think about the best players, I to some extent take into the aesthetic value of watching them play. That doesn’t mean it’s the only criteria by which I judge players, because if it was I don’t think I’d rank Duncan in a top-10 of all time players. Lebron is a great player and if he continues at this level for another 3-4 seasons then he may well pass Jordan, though I think between the two it will just come down to personal preference.

      My personal preference is Jordan, though if somebody were to tell me they think Lebron is the GOAT right now, I get that because he really is an incredible player and one I feel privileged to watch. Anybody’s list of the greatest players is highly subjective so I’m not sure why you’re taking such umbrage with the fact that I have a preference for Jordan’s advanced mid-range game.

    7. DRed

      You can quote stats all day long, but the fact is there’s no way Jordan would have ever gone to see Maleficent by himself a day after losing a finals game.

    8. Hubert

      Frank O. said

      [Jordan] was a freak, not just because he had physical gifts, but because his mental game was cold, methodical, and calculated, immune to boredom, machine like. The stories on this part of his game are many.
      Jordan wishes he could have been 6’8, with a 270 pound, ‘lean’ frame.

      Lebron in a way can be as imposing at his position as Shaquille was at his.
      There were plenty of 6’6 guards, strong and with sick hops in the NBA.
      What made Jordan different was the focus and will that rarely broke. He was a machine.
      But there is no one like Lebron, running down hill, charging the hoop. Too strong, too powerful, and, frankly, too graceful for a man of that size.
      Oh, and he can play point like Magic…

      I think you’re vastly underselling Jordan’s physical superiority, which I recall to be almost as big as LeBron’s. Unless I am misreading you, it seems like you’re trying to paint a picture where Jordan was on a somewhat even playing field with his opponents but dominated through heroic mental strength. Whereas LeBron was just born with an amazing physical advantage.

      I couldn’t disagree more. Think of all the guys you remember guarding Jordan over the years. Joe Dumars, Craig Ehlo, Byron Scott, Clyde Drexler, Terry Porter, John Starks, Gerald Wilkins, Dan Majerle, Reggie Miller, Nick Anderson, Gary Payton, Jeff Hornacek, Byron Russell…

      The only two guys on that list in the same stratosphere as MJ are Drexler and Payton. MJ was much stronger than Drexler and much taller than Payton.

      In my humble opinion, he very much enjoyed the same physical dominance over his competition as LeBron currently does.

    9. Hubert

      Jordan played in an era of much more physical defense. Big, burly guys who would whack you if you came into the paint were not rarities, they were staples of NBA teams. Hand checking was not banned. Jordan putting up the TS% numbers in the era he did is the equivalent of somebody in baseball hitting .330 every year in the late 60?s.

      Counterpoint:

      Jordan also played in the era of illegal defense, which would be called on every single play in the NBA today. You do have to give up the ball a lot more today than you did then, and I doubt we’d have seen so many games of Jordan scoring 50+ points if teams could play the way they can now.

    10. Hubert

      Another big difference between the MJ era and the Lebron era is the change in the illegal defense rule. During MJ’s time, isolations and post-ups were much more difficult to defend, because a team could send three offensive men (and their defenders) to the weakside. The change in the zone defense rule runs in the opposite direction to the change in the hand-check rule.

      And if I had finished reading the comments I would have seen that Ephus already said this. Sorry.

    11. Hubert

      I personally don’t like debating LeBron vs MJ because they’re so completely different players. Kobe, IMO, was the closest thing we’ve ever had to MJ, and he was still off by a length.

      LeBron is like some hybrid of Magic, Bird, and Pippen, a completely unique player who should be appreciated for what he is and not constantly compared against some raging sociopath.

      My least favorite argument of the past decade was “MJ wouldn’t have passed the ball there” every time LeBron doesn’t shoot, as if passing the ball to an open teammate is bad.

    12. Cock Jowles Has Predicted the Last Three Knicks Seasons

      Re: Jordan didn’t flop

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1jL84Sqgum0

      Oh, you guys!

      I’m sure that’s the only time he did that. I bet if we went through thousands of hours of game footage we’d only find a few times where Jordan tried to sell a foul by taking a dive. Definitely.

      Definitely no revisionist’s biases there. Definitely not selection bias. Definitely not proximity bias.

    13. chrisk06811

      Looks like Fisher is our next coach, and I like it. I know he’s got no pro coaching experience, but 24 yrs of NCAA experience, 3 final 4′s, a title…..and he turned SD State around. I think it’s a good professional move.

    14. Nick C.

      THCJ good one. Can you find one where he was completely whiffed on like Wade last night?

    15. johnno

      My favorite LeBron flop — in the playoffs last year, he and David West (I think) kinda sorta bumped into each other a little bit and both reacted as if they had been hit by a Mike Tyson roundhouse — grunting, flailing, stumbling and falling in opposite directions. It should have been the first bi-lateral flopping fine in NBA history.

    16. BigBlueAL

      The greatest flop ever for me was Reggie Miller guarding Allan Houston during a playoff game. Houston raised the ball over his head and Miller fell down acting as if Houston elbowed him in the face. The ref called an offensive foul and Houston stood there completely shocked. The replay showed his elbow didnt come anywhere close to Miller’s face lol.

    17. Cock Jowles Has Predicted the Last Three Knicks Seasons

      LeBron flops, but so does Jordan. That’s my point.

      LeBron drives on so many of his offensive possessions, yet he rarely gets hurt. Should he be like Jerome Bettis and “lower his head” and take a beating so that the idiots of the interweb don’t criticize him for not being “tough” enough?

      I really wish that they would pull the “toughest” posters of the ESPN comments section and have them play 3-on-3 with NBA-level talent. Why hasn’t this been done yet? I’d love to see big_bad_bill_69 get destroyed by a 6’1″ PG.

    18. Cock Jowles Has Predicted the Last Three Knicks Seasons

      Oh, I think I might have realized why I like Kawhi Leonard so much:

      I was watching The Wire Season 1 with Ms. Jowles, and when D’Angelo says, “Ayo, String! Where’s Wallace? Where’s Wallace?” I jumped up and shouted, “HE’S ON THE SPURS, D. HE’S IN THE FINALS AND EVERYTHING!”

    19. Hubert

      I was watching The Wire Season 1 with Ms. Jowles, and when D’Angelo says, “Ayo, String! Where’s Wallace? Where’s Wallace?” I jumped up and shouted, “HE’S ON THE SPURS, D. HE’S IN THE FINALS AND EVERYTHING!”

      Arguably one of the best two-sport athletes around. Not many people know this but before playing basketball he quarterbacked East Dillon High to the Texas State Championship.

    20. lavor postell

      Beck reporting Fisher has accepted the Knicks’ head coaching position and Woj tweeted that he got 5 yrs, $25m.

    21. thenamestsam

      Sounds like we’re about to have a new head coach in Derek Fisher. He seems like he scores high in the charisma category, and also in the “played for Phil Jackson” category which seems to have played a strangely large role in this whole thing. However, the more of the playoffs I’ve watched the less excited I’ve been about the prospect of having another ex-player as a coach. Seems to me like the top ranks of the coaching game is dominated now by guys without strong playing backgrounds – Pop, Spo, Thibs, Vogel, Van Gundy bros, Carlisle. There are obviously notable exceptions (Doc being the biggest one, both Hornaceck and Stotts potentially on their way), but for the most part coaching seems to be dominated by guys whose primary focus in life has been, you know, coaching basketball, not playing it. Fisher seems like a lock to be well liked by the players and to both look and sound the part, but it’s still a pretty different role. Best thing I guess is that we’re not really looking to win next year so he has a year to gain experience.

    22. yellowboy90

      @22 You also may remember him as a young baseball player(Hard Ball). Clearly a 3-sport star.

      But the answer to the “where’s Wallace ?” was he’s on All my Children.

    23. JK47

      for the most part coaching seems to be dominated by guys whose primary focus in life has been, you know, coaching basketball, not playing it.

      I do think this is true, but in this situation the greatest coach in the history of the league is going to have his fingerprints all over the team. I don’t think you can really bring in some sort of visionary, up-and-coming coach into the Knicks’ situation; I think you have to bring in somebody who is going to be loyal and true to Jackson’s principles.

    24. JK47

      Meanwhile, the Cavs, who are clearly even dumber than us, offered something along the lines of a seven-year, $60M contract to John Calipari. I mean, just… wow.

    25. lavor postell

      @28

      Apparently the offer was actually closer to 10yrs, $80m with Calipari having complete control over personnel decisions as well.

    26. thenamestsam

      I do think this is true, but in this situation the greatest coach in the history of the league is going to have his fingerprints all over the team. I don’t think you can really bring in some sort of visionary, up-and-coming coach into the Knicks’ situation; I think you have to bring in somebody who is going to be loyal and true to Jackson’s principles.

      That’s a reasonable counterpoint, but I don’t think every young coach is necessarily of the visionary mold who would come in wanting to do things his own way and resenting have Phil’s hand on the tiller as well. There have to be tons of young coaches who would wet themselves at the prospect of having the chance to work with a guy who has Phil’s credentials and would be more than happy to both teach and learn the Triangle under him. Remember, most guys aren’t nearly as web to a single system as Phil is. Spoelstra wasn’t a “pace and space” coach the way Phil is a “triangle” coach, his team just plays that way now because he decided it was the best way for them to play. Or look at how much Pop’s Spurs have shifted identity over the years.

      Now maybe Phil thinks it’s necessary that he have a personal relationship with the person who becomes coach and that “loyal to his principles” has more to do with personal loyalty than willingness to run the triangle. In that case, while I am happy that for the first time in a long time the Knicks seem to have a cohesive vision running through the organization, arbitrarily limiting your coaching search to a shallow pool of almost entirely marginally qualified candidates doesn’t strike me as a particularly sharp idea.

    27. BigBlueAL

      With the way things are at MSG I think Phil wanted someone who he knows is 100% loyal to him and wont be influenced by any of the other MSG idiot employees. I cant really blame him for wanting someone he has a big-time prior history with when looking for someone to coach this franchise.

    28. thenamestsam

      Apparently the offer was actually closer to 10yrs, $80m with Calipari having complete control over personnel decisions as well.

      I’ll just say that while this kind of deal seems absolutely insane on its face he does supposedly have a very good relationship with Lebron. Let’s say just for the sake of a hypothetical that you think he raises your chances of getting Lebron from 0% to 20%. I would imagine that getting LBJ to come back to Cleveland would be worth at least $100M to them in terms of increased TV ratings, brand awareness, franchise value appreciation etc.. Obviously those numbers are entirely speculative, but I don’t think it’s that hard to imagine a situation where something like a quarter of his contract could be entirely based on his potential to bring Lebron back to Cleveland.

    29. johnno

      “arbitrarily limiting your coaching search to a shallow pool of almost entirely marginally qualified candidates doesn’t strike me as a particularly sharp idea”
      Depends on your definition of “marginally qualified.” Fisher is a very bright guy who has been considered a team leader and solid locker room guy everywhere he has gone, and who is universally respected by his peers — who elected him to be their union president. I also read somewhere that, in a recent player poll, he was voted most likely to someday become a head coach. I’d rather have him than a retread who was fired somewhere else or a college coach with little to no NBA experience. Put another way, who out there — that is available and not under contract to another team — would you have liked as coach?

    30. Kahnzy

      Fisher signs for what Kerr originally wanted but never got from us….. Interesting

      To me this means one of three things.

      Either:
      1. Kerr and Jackson were honest when they said Kerr leaving us at the altar wasn’t about the money/contract length at that extra year/$5mill wouldn’t have made a difference for him.

      2. We learned from our mistake and made damn sure we didn’t make it again.

      3. We whiffed on our #1 choice, so we overpayed for our 2nd.

      The lifelong Knick fan in me (read: cynic) wants to jump on #3 rather than whatever positives the first two might imply. And if this were a free agent player signing I, and likely everyone else here, would assume that we were in fact overpaying for someone else after missing out on our top choice (why, hello to you too Mr. Stoudemire) .

      But, this being a coach signing I’m at least pleased by the fact that this is just Dolan’s money being spent and has no bearing on the Knicks’ ability to actually pay to bring in better players in 2015. So, I’ll take it and give Fisher a shot. As has already been stated, the pressure next season won’t be particularly high so we have a year to see what we’ve got and Fisher has a year to get his coaching legs under him.

      I remain cautiously optimistic.

    31. thenamestsam

      Depends on your definition of “marginally qualified.”

      That’s true. To me, when you’re hiring somebody for one of only 30 available top level basketball coaching jobs, and even within that group are offering one of the more prestigious positions (obviously the roster sucks, but we’re paying top dollar, it’s a huge market, etc.) then somebody who has never been a basketball coach in their life at any level is marginally qualified. Obviously lots of people disagree with that because he’s far from the first to get a job under those circumstances, but that’s my opinion.

      As for my preferred candidate, the first one that comes to mind is David Fizdale. Coaches under the guy I’d consider the 2nd best coach in the league, everyone in Miami raves about him, young, and while it’s a long shot at best, having him come to a Lebron free agency meeting next year couldn’t possibly hurt. That said, while I like him, it’s less about one particular guy to me – I would have liked to see the team do a real coaching search like they do in football for example – bring in a few qualified coaches (coaches being a key word here), interview them, bring back one or two finalists for a second interview, make a choice. That hiring process works well enough for practically every other business in the world.

    32. Sakei99

      who out there — that is available and not under contract to another team — would you have liked as coach?

      Jeff Van Gundy. Hrmmm that was easy.

    33. JK47

      Jeff Van Gundy. Hrmmm that was easy.

      Because Jeff Van Gundy is gonna come here and install the Triangle? Jeff Van Gundy as coach of this team unfortunately doesn’t make any sense.

    34. Sakei99

      Ohhh my mistake, I thought we were looking for good coaches. Yes by all means then lets put up a patsy with no experience whatsoever and give him a 5 year contract. Then on top of that lets reward our 2nd choice with a moar lucrative contract than the first one that makes much moar cents.

    35. JK47

      Why does anybody give one single shit about the length or dollar amount of Fisher’s contract? The freakin’ team is worth upwards of three billion goddamn dollars. Give Fisher $100 million for all I care.

    36. Brian Cronin

      If the only way you can get Derek Fisher to coach your team is to grossly overpay him, that’s not a good sign of your management skills.

      But yes, I don’t care about the money in the abstract, as screw Dolan.

    37. Sakei99

      Maybe because paying moar money to a guy u deem less valuable makes no cents?
      Maybe becuz if money really is no object, then not ponying up for Kerr makes no cents?
      Maybe becuz giving insane contracts when your only bidding against yourself makes no cents?
      Maybe becuz guaranteeing a guy 5 years, when he has no experience whatsoever makes no cents?
      Maybe becuz having to fire your no good coach with 3 years remaining on his fat contract and losing the little respect your franchise has, makes no cents?

      But yes lets throw freaking money at the problem. If you pay enuff freaking money every problem goes away.

    38. Kahnzy

      If you think JVG was gonna walk through that proverbial door anytime soon, you’re deluding yourself. As much as I would love to see the return of my all-time favorite coach (even at the cost of losing my all-time favorite color commentator, sorry Clyde), there’s just no sane way anyone can believe he was on his way back if only we hadn’t hired Fisher.

    39. BigBlueAL

      Yeah, you guys who read this site all the time know how much I freaking love JVG but no chance in hell he was coming back especially once Phil was hired.

    40. lavor postell

      I think the length of Kerr’s offer is more a reflection of his hesitance in taking the job to begin with. I mean Phil had to hold his hand for 2 weeks and allay his justified fears about Dolan’s meddling, state of the roster, working with Melo, etc.

      Fisher on the other hand said this after the end of OKC’s season:

      “In the last maybe decade or so, I’ve really felt like my purpose in life, my calling so to speak, was to be in a leadership position or some position of impact on other people,” he said. “Coaching allows for you to positively impact other people’s lives. To help a group of people find success, whether they have or haven’t before, you’re all working together for a common goal … There’s a love for helping other people that exists for me, and not playing anymore, if that’s what it’s to be, coaching or being in the front office, or being in a role where you can positively impact others and work to reach a common goal, that’s exciting to me.”

      It also certainly helps that Fisher has an actual positive working relationship with Dolan after working with him when he was president of the NBPA during the 2011 CBA negotiations. I tend to be an optimist, but I think it’s more likely that Phil didn’t offer Kerr 5 years because of his reluctance while Fisher, at least publicly, expressed no such sentiment.

      I would have also preferred a broader search and personally I was a big fan of trying to bring in Fred Hoiberg from Iowa State. I do like Fisher though and I also think Phil’s desire to have a more hands on role initially will help him and makes me feel more comfortable with his hiring.

    41. Sakei99

      “I quit. And it’s something I regret to this day. I live with it every day and I regret it. And I let my emotions come into it. And I was just emotionally spent. I made a bad decision and I quit.”
      “I live with that regret every day. Not because I view myself, quote-unquote as a quitter. I don’t look at it that way. But I did leave that situation, I did quit that situation and I live with that regret.”

      Dan asked Van Gundy if his brother Jeff was going to coach. Stan said that he’s waiting for a great situation and those are hard to find in the NBA. “I think he’s in the exact same situation I was,” Van Gundy said. “I think there are a lot of bad jobs in the NBA right now where there’s a disconnect between the owners and the coaches.

      ““If Phil Jackson ever wanted to talk basketball with me, which, listen, who knows if that’s true, but if he ever did, of course I would take the time.”

      “But even if you haven’t coached, certainly, in a triangle system, I don’t think that will preclude him from looking at people, because while you may not have had expertise, or experience coaching in the triangle, most coaches believe in unselfishness, floor balance, and defensive rebounding.”

      Those sure sound like the words of a man who clearly wants to come back and is leaving the door open without outright whoring for it, (becuz JVG is too classy a guy to ever openly campaign.)

    42. Kahnzy

      Or they sound like the words taken from snippets of multiple articles to fit your preconceived biased belief that JVG would have happily coached under Phil Jackson and not at all would have preferred a situation at least somewhat similar to what his brother got with Detroit. JVG is a top-tier coach and he would want some measure of control over personnel, and that, unfortunately, just wasn’t/isn’t going to happen after Dolan paid Phil Jackson $60 million to do just that.

      You want to believe something and went digging specifically for information to confirm your belief. At this point, I don’t know what else to tell you except:

      Sorry bro, you’re just gonna have to live with the fact that you and you alone knew that all PJax had to do was pick up that phone and JVG would have come a’runn’n.

    43. Brian Cronin

      I do believe that JVG is most likely looking for a deal like his brother got. Hell, Memphis apparently even offered him that deal and he turned it down, so I think he is specifically looking for a deal his brother got but from very specific teams. If the Knicks offered him Jackson’s job and the coaching job, then yeah, he’d take it. But I don’t think he’s looking to just coach any more. He loves his current gig a lot so he has to really be bowled over by any new gig.

    44. Sakei99

      So using actual quotes from the person in question is digging now? Would unbriddled assumptions pulled the ass of internet threads be better?

      And since your so quick to call me deluded, maybe you need to learn how to read. Nowhere did I say JVG was ever really in the cards. In fact I made specific mention Phil was looking for a patsy. Something I think would’ve been obvious to but the most dense of people. All I pointed out was when sumone asked to name an non-contracted experienced coach, which i did.

      And yea I guess by me and me alone, u also mean the other couple of million of people that read that little site called ESPN, sry I forgot u dont read so well. And considering how close to the vest JVG has always played things, including the Grizz offer, its pretty big of him to admit interest in the Knicks job. Which if offered I think he would only consider if he felt he and Phil were on the same page.

      But yea lets change all that, and pull imaginary quotes out, where I say JVG would come running to Phil like a stray lap dog. You’d be an expert in that.

    45. Sakei99

      I’m not necessarily sure JVG is looking for the Presidental treatment like his brother either, though obviously it couldn’t hurt. I think it’s more a matter of him knowing most owners are psychotic (see Clips, Griz, and Nugs for examples) and most front offices are unstable and incompetent (see Wolves or most NBA personnel). If for example, Spolestra or Pop suddenly resigned I think he’d take the job even if “only” to be a coach because of the comfort of a stable and reliable owner/front office.

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