Statistical Analysis. Humor. Knicks.

Saturday, August 2, 2014

Knicks Morning News (2014.06.04)

  • [New York Daily News] Fisher could be catch of the day at Garden (Wed, 04 Jun 2014 01:07:09 GMT)
    Derek Fisher became an innocent bystander in the phenomenon known as “Linsanity” two years ago when he faced Jeremy Lin and was torched by the unheralded Knicks point guard.

  • [New York Daily News] Dolan mum on Knicks coaching search, Melo’s future (Wed, 04 Jun 2014 00:49:32 GMT)
    As far as the Knicks coaching search goes, James (Guitar Jimmy) Dolan has imposed a blackout — on himself.At least that’s what he told Mike (Sports Pope) Francesa during a Tuesday WFAN interview.

  • [New York Times] Spurs Disagree With James, Say They Respect Heat (Wed, 04 Jun 2014 07:32:57 GMT)
    LeBron James has it all wrong. Gregg Popovich is a people person.

  • [New York Times] Sports of The Times: Clippers’ Sale Silences a Dialogue on Race (Wed, 04 Jun 2014 00:01:23 GMT)
    With the pending $2 billion sale of the Los Angeles Clippers, it appears the discussion about racism in the N.B.A. and beyond has stopped.

  • 55 comments on “Knicks Morning News (2014.06.04)

    1. Sakei99

      I can’t envision any scenario where Carmelo resigns with this turd wagon. We have a) no on board talent. b) no cap space c) no draft picks to show for all our losing d) no coach e) Amare’s max contracted crippling knees f) Ray “Gun” Felton g) no hope of competing next year.

      And our sole advantage is that we can offer moar cash, except we asked him to take a pay cut….. Because superstars enjoy getting paid less to play on loser teams.

      To wit, Melo’s sole response on the whole matter has so far been “I’ll think about it.” For those of you who have never dated a girl or left your mother’s basement to see sunlight, “I’ll think about it” is the equivalent of “I don’t need to think about it becuz it sure as shit ain’t happening, so plz stop breathing on me and go away nao.”

      On the bright side I look forward to him playing with his bffs in Houston while simultaneously getting Linsanity shitcanned there as well. History repeats itself after all.

    2. lavor postell

      It’s a little disingenuous to mention Amare’s “crippled” knees which looked pretty damn good this season when Chicago is crippled with the weight of Derrick “I’m waiting until I’m 110%” Rose’s knees and contract. The Knicks aren’t a great team, but they’re in the East and with a good coach and any semblance of league average production from the guard positions could compete to finish in the top half of the East. Albeit that’s not a great situation, but it’s also not all that much worse than say the Bulls or the Rockets, who are a way better team, but have the misfortune of being in the Western Conference.

      Those in my mind are the only real competition for Melo’s signature. Additionally if he moves to either of those places after reading the Phil Jackson interview next week it would almost assuredly be in some kind of sign-and-trade bringing back assets in our direction. While I think Melo in Chicago would be a good fit, I don’t think they’re competing with Miami unless Rose regains his MVP caliber form which I feel is unlikely for a player who’s game was predicated on being a supreme athlete.

      Houston would be a better team with Melo, but surrounding Howard with Melo, Harden and Parsons seems like a recipe for being a poor defensive team and again playing in the West means you could be an elite 55+ win team and get bounced in the second round.

      The East sucks, but the Knicks with Melo, decent coaching and average guard production are a playoff team that could easily make a Conference Finals run given the state of the EC. They will be in position next summer to put 2 elite players around Melo and will have their draft pick. Obviously that’s not the greatest pitch, but I still would put New York as favorites in re-signing Melo and if Fisher becomes our head coach, his clout with players may be a draw.

      I agree with you though that Melo in all likelihood isn’t opting in, though PJax would have earned his salary if he did.

    3. lavor postell

      http://www.newsday.com/sports/basketball/knicks/james-dolan-phil-jackson-calling-the-shots-for-knicks-1.8326771

      Fisher’s name never came up during the WFAN interview, but when the coaching search did, Dolan said to ask Jackson.

      “Phil asked me not to tell anybody this but I’m going to tell you,” Dolan said. “For my birthday, my family gave me a T-shirt and it says only two words on it — it says, ‘Ask Phil.’ That’s it.

      “I have not asked him about the coaching search on purpose. I have not asked him about it. I just told him I’m here for you if you need me. If you don’t need me, that’s fine, too. I got lots to do.”

      I thought this was funny

    4. Owen

      While I applaud his stance on this matter, yeah, fuck James Dolan. I do think it’s hilarious how keenly aware his family seems to be of how badly he has been running the team.

      We could be decent next year if we keep the band together and Melo opts in. Win 45 games, lose in the second round. That’s our ceiling. If we can get first rounders for Melo and Tyson (seems unlikely) I am all for it….

    5. Sakei99

      For one thing, I’m not sure how not bringing up another team’s injured player in a post about the Knicks on a Knicks blog is disingenuous at all. But fine let’s play that game.

      The Knicks aren’t a great team…

      It’s always good when your post starts out with a straw man. In point of fact not only are the Knicks not a great team, they aren’t a even a good or to be quite frank a decent team.

      could compete to finish in the top half of the East

      If everything turned out right for the Knicks, and everything turned out (within reason) wrong for everyone else in the East, the Knicks still would be looking at fighting it out for one of the last two playoff spots.

      not all that much worse than say the Bulls

      Yea there’s nothing at all disingenuous about comparing a team that finished third in the conference, with the reigning DPoY, top 5 coach, and a promising Euro prospect on deck; to a team that missed the playoffs, has no coach, and no picks. That’s not even mentioning they did it all without Rose, so anything he gives them next year is a bonus. But yea the Knicks aren’t much worse…

      The East sucks

      You know why the East sucks? Because of teams like the Knicks. Point of fact, the Knicks only finished ahead of two teams last year that weren’t attempting to tank, Detroit and Cleveland. And thanks to SVG and the Satanic Lottery Demons that Dan Gilbert signed a blood oath to, respectively, those two teams are a lot moar likely to improve than we are.

      could easily make a Conference Finals

      Talk about disingenuous…

      will be in position next summer to put 2 elite players around Melo

      Assuming they resigned Melo and cleared the crap off the books, that leaves them with room for one other max contract and the mid-level exception. There’s that word again, but sum people might say calling the MLE, elite, to be… disingenuous.

    6. JK47

      Melo has what– like maybe 3 more seasons of playing at his current level before he starts to seriously decline? And he’s gonna want to waste one of them farting around with the Felton/Bargs/Amar’e/JR clown car? So he can sign at a discount? Guh, whah?

      It doesn’t make sense for him to stay, and it doesn’t make sense for the Knicks to keep him either. I’d tell him, “Opt in, or we’re not making you an offer. We gutted the roster to get you, which is a big reason why we’re so bad, so if you really want to be here long term and make this work, opt in. If not, smell ya later. I hope La La enjoys the humidity in Houston.”

      Get whatever you can in a sign and trade, and move on.

    7. Brian Cronin

      I think it is possible that they can get him to opt in, under the theory that even a somewhat notable injury wouldn’t affect his longterm salary that much and it would give him a lot more options for 2015.His options are pretty limited right now (going under the theory, which I think is correct, that he cares just as much about location as he does competitiveness of the team he’d be going to), basically just Chicago, Houston and New York and the first two would have to make significant trades (although realistic trades) to fit him in while the last one would not.

      So Jackson has some real leverage here.

      Either get him to opt in or use that leverage for a sign and trade with Chicago, which has more assets than Houston.

    8. Brian Cronin

      Melo failed to make the All-NBA team. Sorry, Melo! He got a lot of support, it was just a big year for NBA forwards. More of a numbers crunch than anything else.

    9. f.l.o.

      selecting all of love, griffin, aldrige and p. george over melo?
      aldrige as “worst” forward being selected has almost double the points melo received.
      i say snub.

    10. lavor postell

      @6

      Let’s say melo takes a 5 year deal for about 100m that puts his cap hit at 18.5m for the 15-16 season the Knicks with Felton jr hardaway shump Aldrich (hopefully) and 2015 first rounder are somewhere around 33-35m. The cap is projected to go to 66m that season leaving the Knicks with around 30m in cap space. Even with cap holds the Knicks can and will be a major player in that scenario for 2 elite free agents.

      Yeah the bulls were great and then got spanked by a team that tries just as hard as them come playoff time. Their coach is great in the regular season and by the time the playoffs roll around he’s got half his roster playing with severe injuries to their detriment.

      Do I think the Knicks with a mediocre coach could have won 44 games and then won a grand total of one game in the playoffs? Yeah I think they may have been able to do that assuming any normal coach wouldn’t have been playing bargs 30 minutes a night. How many games did we lose this season directly due to poor coaching play calling down the stretch?

      If rose comes back and isn’t an elite point guard even with melo they aren’t beating Miami and have zero cap flex. They wouldn’t even have the money to bring mirotic over since he’s already stated he won’t come over for the mle. They have more assets but the bulls have had assets for a long time and failed to pull the trigger on any move to put them over the top under paxson and Forman which is partially a function of reinsdorf pinching pennies.

      Do I think the Knicks will sign melo? I really don’t know but I think their situation isn’t as awful as made out to be though it’s far from being great. Melo could stay here or we can sign-and-trade him or even just let him walk. At this point I can live with any of those outcomes.

    11. Sakei99

      Let’s say melo takes a 5 year deal for about 100m

      Why in the hell would he take such a huge pay cut just to play with a bunch of losers. On what planet do superstars take paycuts to play with Ray “Gun” Felton.

      leaving the Knicks with around 30m in cap space… for 2 elite free agents.

      Even if Melo smoked JR’s finest crack and accepted your imaginary pay cut that he would never ever do, $30 does not get you two elite (and by elite, we obviously mean max) players. It gets you one elite and in this case slightly better than the MLE.

      Yeah the bulls were great and then got spanked by a team that tries just as hard as them come playoff time. Their coach is great in the regular season…

      Well you convinced me! The Bulls are garbage! Thank god we outlasted them in the playoffs… wait, what?!? WHAT DO U MEAN WE DIDNT EVEN MAKE THE PLAYOFFS? Well sure they may have a top 5 coach but our is better…. HUH?!? YOU MEAN WE DON’T EVEN HAVE A COACH?

      The truth is I finally get where your cumming from now. You want to believe whatever it is you want to believe, truth be damned, and you’re going to make up as many excuses as possible to get to that conclusion. What’s even funnier is every excuse you make (like the Bulls playoff run) is just an even bigger reason why Carmelo wouldn’t want to resign here.

    12. ephus

      $30 does not get you two elite (and by elite, we obviously mean max) players. It gets you one elite and in this case slightly better than the MLE.

      If the salary cap is $66 million in 2015-16, the max salary for a player coming off of a rookie scale contract will be $16.5 million (25% of cap). The max salary for a player (like Kevin Love) with 7-9 years will be $18 million (30% of cap). The max salary for a player with 10+ years will be $19.5 million (35% of cap). But the max level free agents with 10+ years (Lebron) already make more than 19.5 million so they can get up to 105% of their last year salary.

      Bottom line: $30 million cap space would not be enough for two max players, even if they were coming off of the rookie salary cap.

      You can link to my blog by clicking on my name.

    13. Hubert

      I’ve been a way a while, but my ears ring whenever there is a chorus of “Fuck James Dolan.”

      Allow me to add a verse:

      Fuck James Dolan.

      Ignorant little twat only resurfaced so he can try to soak up some of the Rangers glory. The only reason the Rangers have had a decent amount of success over the years is because they don’t garner enough attention for him to meddle and he’s scared shitless of Glen Sather (which actually bodes well for Phil).

      Only two times I’ve ever seen Dolan show up around the Rangers are this week and when HBO was filming the 24/7 special for the Winter Classic two years. He’s so transparent it’s pathetic. Any time they are in the spotlight he peaks his fat head into.

      Fuck James Dolan.

      By the way, interesting conversation about max salaries yesterday. As someone who is both pro-labor and pro-giving advantages to my big market team, I would love to see these max salaries and restrictive salary cap eliminated, and there is one (insanely crazy) way it could happen:

      The mega stars need to form their own union.

      It would also benefit them if they were willing to play a season in Europe, where free markets dictate salaries. Real Madrid and Barcelona would probably pay LeBron and Melo 50 million euro each for a season there. They would never do it, but that’s the only way to break the stranglehold the league has on them. They will never get their true value because they have no rights. They’re the minority in their own union. Yet they drive the revenue.

    14. flossy

      Jeez, the Knicks had a shitty season and all of a sudden it’s like the 54 win, 2nd seed campaign of the previous year never happened. No, the Knicks are not going to contend for a title next season, but even last season we’d have been merely bad, and not horrible–certainly we’d have made the playoffs–with a coach who was even “meh” rather than criminally incompetent. With a decent coach, preferably one who immediately consigns Barngnani to towel-waving status, we should make the playoffs next season even if the roster only improves at the margins. After that, it’s basically a blank slate. I don’t think our path to the promised land is substantially harder than Chicago’s, with their cheap owner and broken franchise player. They’ve got the same “pretender” status that we do.

      Now, if Houston can clear enough cap space to make Melo an offer, more power to them (and him, assuming he’s not dumb enough to turn down playing with Harden and Howard). Beverly, Harden, Parsons, Melo and Howard would have some defensive holes, but man… that would be a tough, tough team to beat.

    15. lavor postell

      Point out where I said two maximum salary players. Maybe elite was the wrong word but you can certainly get two real difference makers with $30m of cap space and certainly better than slightly over the MLE as you are saying as an undisputed fact. I think that would be more than enough to sign Marc Gasol and Millsap or maybe you want a guard so you go after Dragic.

      Melo isn’t giving up a shit ton of money, because the Knicks are the only team that could give him that contract and I doubt he would even get the 4 years, $90m max that another team could offer him. Most likely Melo is going to get something like 4 years, $80m, so the 5 years, $100m would be the same AAV with another year tacked on.

      You act like this team the Knicks have is going to be together after this season. Hell after reading Phil Jackson’s interview from last week and the guys the Knicks are working out, I doubt this team remains intact going in to next season. If Phil can actually show Melo some changes and viable plan to get the Knicks back into contention I can see him re-signing. I’m not sitting here saying that Melo’s 100% guaranteed to come back, but I also don’t think he’s already gone and has no interest in coming back at all.

    16. Hubert

      Apropos to nothing, there have been a lot less “both teams won the Leonard for Hill trade” articles this year, huh? That was one thing that drove me insane last year. Hill is a nice little player who defended pick and rolls extraordinarily well…against Raymond Felton. If that team had George and Leonard it would be a lot more scary.

    17. Brian Cronin

      Apropos to nothing, there have been a lot less “both teams won the Leonard for Hill trade” articles this year, huh? That was one thing that drove me insane last year. Hill is a nice little player who defended pick and rolls extraordinarily well…against Raymond Felton. If that team had George and Leonard it would be a lot more scary.

      While they say they were going to take Leonard if they didn’t trade the pick, I think that was a bit of revisionist history. I don’t think they were ever going to add Leonard to the team when they had George and still had hopes for Granger at the time. I think they always planned on trading that pick to some team.

    18. Donnie Walsh

      Unfortunately for Anthony, any team that he opts to play for is going to be burdened. If he wants to play for a true contender he needs to cut his salary in half. It’s as simple as that.

    19. DRed

      “This always happens in America,” Klinsmann said in the interview, which was released on Wednesday. “Kobe Bryant, for example — why does he get a two-year contract extension for $50 million? Because of what he is going to do in the next two years for the Lakers? Of course not. Of course not. He gets it because of what he has done before. It makes no sense. Why do you pay for what has already happened?”

      Amen, Jurgen. Time for Phil to think outside the box for GM.

    20. lavor postell

      @DRed

      http://www.nytimes.com/2014/06/08/magazine/how-jurgen-klinsmann-plans-to-make-us-soccer-better-and-less-american.html

      Here’s the link if people want to read the full interview which is pretty interesting. Klinsmann has a lot to say and isn’t shy about giving his opinions or making tough decisions which I really respect. While I’ll never begrudge a player getting his, especially one who’s already won championships and done a lot for an organization, that contract is really puzzling from the Lakers’ standpoint. I don’t think a lot of teams were lining up to sign Kobe for $30m over two seasons, forget $48.5m.

    21. Brian Cronin

      He’d have to take less than max, certainly, but Melo taking, say, $15-16 million from the Rockets would still make them a true contender.

    22. Donnie Walsh

      Why would Anthony and Harden co-exist well? (At least he and Amar’e occupied different areas of the court)

    23. BigBlueAL

      Jurgen is still an idiot for leaving Landon Donovan off the World Cup roster. Having said that I do like what he has done and is trying to do for soccer in this country. But it still boggles my mind why he left LD off the roster considering some of the guys who made the team.

    24. lavor postell

      I honestly think Houston would be better off going after Lowry this summer. They need a playmaking guard way more than they need another ball dominant scoring wing player.

    25. DRed

      Landon’s old enough that he probably wouldn’t have played a big part in the cup anyhow. If you have to drop him to make a point that will pay long term dividends than maybe its worth it. Doing crazy shit like that is why kinsmann was hired in the first place.

    26. DRed

      Pretty funny to think Houston had Lowry AND Dragic and might be playing tomorrow if they’d kept one of them

    27. Count de Pennies

      I hope V. Stiviano decides to climb on board the “Fuck James Dolan” bandwagon.

      And that she brings along her tape recorder…

    28. ephus

      Donald Sterling has given up the ghost.

      Adam Silver wins his first championship fight on a sixth round TKO after pummeling Sterling from the opening round.

    29. BigBlueAL

      I need the Knicks season to start again, the Yankees are beyond depressing to watch. What a boring, average baseball team. Makes me miss this past season’s Knicks team, at least they were entertaining and interesting to watch.

    30. DRed

      There’s a gritty underdog team from NY playing an overtime Stanley cup finals game right now. Even if hockey isn’t your thing it’s pretty exciting

    31. BigBlueAL

      Ive been watching the Rangers during the postseason and rooting for them but Im not a hockey fan at all. Im more interested in the World Cup than I am the NHL lol. I wish the Rangers all the best though.

      Im a baseball/basketball guy. Those are my real passions. The NFL and the Giants are a distant 3rd. The problem with rooting for a bad baseball team (well the Yankees are currently mediocre but considering what Im used to watching this is a very bad Yankees team) is its a daily sport. Its hard to continue to watch every game because it wears on you. At least with the Knicks you usually have a day or 2 in between losses so by the time the next game arrives you are over the previous loss and are ready to watch your team play again. Im not used to watching the Yankees and almost start dreading having to watch them every day. I dunno how Mets fans do it every year lol.

    32. max fisher-cohen

      @Donnie Walsh

      Offensively, Melo and Harden would be great. They both spread the floor extremely well. The problem with Amar’e and Melo was that Amar’e is not an impact player off the ball, and at first, Melo was not an impact player off the ball either. I would argue a big reason Amar’e has had a bit of a renaissance is because now that Melo has converted from crap to elite from 3 point land, he’s comfortable letting the offense run more through Amar’e.

      Defensively, the Rockets would still be short.

      @Lavor Postell & @Sakei99

      There’s like a 90% chance that the best 2015 UFAs — Gasol, Parker, Love — will either re-sign or leave via trade and then re-sign. The Knicks don’t have trade pieces, so that nearly rules those guys out. That leaves as the top FAs in 2015 Afflalo, Millsap, Asik, Dragic. Let’s say NYK magically gets their pick of these guys, beating out better teams, and signs Millsap and Dragic for that $30m.

      That means 2015/16 NYK lineup is

      SL: Dragic, Smith, Melo, Millsap, [minimum $ C]
      Bench: Felton, Hardaway, draft pick X, then minimum players.

      I’d put that team @ ~45 wins in a more competitive EC. How does it improve? There’s no youth, no potentially high draft picks. You just can’t transform a 45 win team into a 57+ win title contender with exception money. And this is a best reasonable case scenario.

      See, you get a pretty predictable $/talent ratio via free agency because it’s an open market. It almost never gets you value. That’s why smart teams get VALUE first, then add free agents. The only time free agency DOES get you value is when you already have enough value to convince the rare top 5 FA who wants to switch teams to sign with you.

    33. Sakei99

      Point out where I said two maximum salary players. Maybe elite was the wrong word…

      It’s pretty disingenuous to switch up your words after the fact then take umbrage with what you never said.

      Melo isn’t giving up a shit ton of money

      When sum1 tells you to take $30 mill less than the rules negotiated upon say your entitled to, for no other reason than good will, thats called giving up a shit ton of money.

      You act like this team the Knicks have is going to be together after this season.

      Oh I see, so the Knicks are going to be a different team because Phil says so, regardless of the fact that they have no picks, no cap space, and only Tyson Chandler to trade. But Phil says so, so it’ll magically happen. Yet at the same time, Daryl Morey, who’s made an entire career out of movable assests and made no secret of going for that third “elite” (and he actually means elite!) player, is all of a sudden going to stand pat and not move any of his assets. So only the Knicks are allowed to make moves to improve or clear cap space? How disingenuous of you.

    34. lavor postell

      When sum1 tells you to take $30 mill less than the rules negotiated upon say your entitled to, for no other reason than good will, thats called giving up a shit ton of money.

      If the most he’s going to command on the open market is something along the lines of 4 yrs, $80m and the Knicks give him 5 yrs, $100m I guess Melo is giving up $30m, but really the Knicks are just giving him a year and an extra $20m that not one other team can offer him.

      It’s pretty disingenuous to switch up your words after the fact then take umbrage with what you never said.

      This is fair.

      I should have been more clear and I thought I was when I explained that with $30m the Knicks can sign two players that can make a major impact even if only of them is a max, though I doubt Gasol, Millsap or Dragic would get maxed. I’ve been wrong before. Also while I think the Knicks will go after headliners I’d rather get multiple contributors over putting all our eggs in 2 guys baskets. For example somebody I’d like to see the Knicks go after that summer would be Robin Lopez.

    35. lavor postell

      Oh I see, so the Knicks are going to be a different team because Phil says so, regardless of the fact that they have no picks, no cap space, and only Tyson Chandler to trade. But Phil says so, so it’ll magically happen. Yet at the same time, Daryl Morey, who’s made an entire career out of movable assests and made no secret of going for that third “elite” (and he actually means elite!) player, is all of a sudden going to stand pat and not move any of his assets. So only the Knicks are allowed to make moves to improve or clear cap space? How disingenuous of you.

      Ok so I was super unclear on what I was talking about in regards to the Knicks so I’ll clarify. The Knicks will assuredly look very different to start the 15-16 season given how their contracts all expire at the end of 14-15. I think we can agree on that.

      I also think it’s likely the Knicks that finished 13-14 will look different from the Knicks that start 14-15, because that Phil told the team that it was unlikely everybody would be back when he addressed them in the locker room after the final game of the season. Whether this means fleecing some team in a Chandler trade, dumping him for picks and expiring and buying out Felton, or taking on salary I couldn’t tell you, but I really would be surprised if we have an unchanged team when training camp starts.

      Morey tried to move Asik and Lin this year and didn’t get much interest. Why is he magically going to generate interest in those guys now that we are in the “poison pill” years of their contracts where they count for $8.3m but will get paid $15m? Lin is not an asset with his contract and getting fair value back for Asik will be hard though his overall level of play and ability to anchor a defense make him a lot more moveable. Morey is going to make moves one way or another this summer, but it’s not going to be a cakewalk for them to acquire a third elite/max player.

    36. lavor postell

      Max I agree with you that we aren’t going to be a championship caliber team after the 2015-16 season, though I think it’s possible we could be a 50-55 win team with Dragic and Gasol in tow. Either way I think if Melo stays after debating all this that it seems unlikely we’ll be heading into 2015 with $30m in cap space. If he stays I think it will be real assurances that we’re going to be willing to add salary to improve the team next season. I wouldn’t necessarily be opposed to that if it preserves a max space for 2016. Not because I think Durant’s on his way, but because I’d rather space out when the Knicks have space, rather than blow our load entirely in one summer.

    37. Brian Cronin

      Morey tried to move Asik and Lin this year and didn’t get much interest.

      He had tons of interest in Asik. He just didn’t like what he was getting offered enough to deal Asik, as he felt Asik was worth a lot and he thought people were intentionally lowballing him because they thought that he needed to trade Asik, so he called all of their bluffs. He could dump Asik for picks in a heartbeat if he wanted to. So clearing his cap space is a cinch. Lin is clearly tougher to move than Asik, but A. that’s mainly because Asik is really, really easy to move and B. I don’t believe Morey ever actually did try to move Lin last year. I heard plenty of “he’s available if other teams are interested and have something worth trading for” but I don’t think Morey ever actively shopped him, especially since Morey needed players ready to contribute to the team right away and who was he going to get for Lin that was going to be better than Lin last year? The Rockets clearly couldn’t have just deducted Lin from their roster – they needed him. Heck, I think that’s one of the reasons they’re seeking out a third elite player. They were so thin on offense that they really did “need” Lin last year. McHale clearly would have loved to have gone away from Lin during the playoffs, but where was he going to go?

      Trading Lin now, though, is a whole other story, as Morey no longer needs to pick up another player for Lin and all he needs to do is to dump Lin’s salary to clear up cap space. That’ll be tougher than doing the same with Asik, but A. I don’t think there’s any real indication it will be very tough and, more importantly, B. With Asik being so desired around the league he should be able to attach Lin to Asik to get rid of Lin. That said, it is definitely fair to say that shedding Lin’s salary will be a good deal harder than shedding Asik’s salary. How much harder is the interesting thing.

      Personally, I think if Morey was truly just getting rid of Asik/Lin away from signing someone like Melo, he would get it done.

    38. Brian Cronin

      It’s pretty disingenuous to switch up your words after the fact then take umbrage with what you never said.

      I get that you didn’t like that lavor postell used the word “disingenuous” in response to you. Your point has been made. Move past it now.

      Also, a general point to all to tone the rhetoric down a bit. I’ve deleted a few different posts so far. Basically try to avoid name-calling.

    39. lavor postell

      @BC

      If you’re trading him with Lin it would take a team that has $16.6m in space to just acquire the players without sending back any salary. Then that team is on the hook for $30m next season. You’d find plenty of teams to take Asik on a 1 year, $15m contract, but I don’t think if attaching Lin is also required it will be very easy. I mean isn’t part of the reason we have a chance at re-signing Melo this season because there aren’t a ton of teams with a lot of cap space? Idk it could happen, but would require sacrificing some picks to make it worthwhile for whoever the team was in addition to just dumping salary.

      Also I know that Boston was interested in Asik, but they offered up some garbage centered around Brandon Bass. I know Morey’s asking price was 2 first round picks, which I think was just him setting the bar high looking for a good deal, but I don’t think he ever got anything he felt was fair value. Morey’s proven himself to be quite the magician so nothing he does would surprise me, but this would really be something special if he could dump Lin and Asik and acquire Melo or Love.

      I guess the other scenario, one that Phil was open too in his comments last week, would be a sign-and-trade sending Lin and Asik here for Melo along with some sweeteners.

    40. Brian Cronin

      Boston is exactly where I imagine he would look. As you noted, Morey was looking for a lot for Asik last year and Boston wasn’t willing to give up the haul he was looking for and he wouldn’t trade him for anything but a haul. Now, though, when dealing Asik/Lin would mean that he could sign a Melo, for instance, it wouldn’t matter what Boston would give him, so long as they helped him free up Asik and Lin’s cap space. So if you’re Boston, and you have the chance to trade, like, a second round draft pick in exchange for Lin and Asik, I think you definitely do that and that’s exactly the scenario that Morey can pursue if he finds himself in a situation where Melo is actually willing to sign with the Rockets for that $16 million.

    41. Brian Cronin

      I think that this is all a bit academic, really, though, as I think Melo decided to re-sign here some time ago. Him going to either Chicago or Houston would still surprise me and those are the only two teams where he could go that wouldn’t absolutely stun me. It might not be necessarily logical for him to return, but I think it’s what he wants to do.

    42. johnno

      “I would argue a big reason Amar’e has had a bit of a renaissance is because now that Melo has converted from crap to elite from 3 point land, he’s comfortable letting the offense run more through Amar’e.”
      Sigh…. Again with the absolute myth that Amare and Melo didn’t mesh offensively immediately after Melo joined the Knicks. Melo’s “crap” from 3 his first season with the Knicks was over 42%. Amare averaged over 24 points a game after the trade and shot over 50% from the field and the Knicks were one of the top offenses in the league after the trade. Defensively they were terrible but offense was clearly not their problem.

    43. lavor postell

      @ johnno

      IIRC I think a lot of those minutes they played together after the trade was also alongside Ronny Turiaf at the 5, so it’s not like the floor was super spaced for them.

    44. Farfa

      Hey guys, have we forgotten Woody was at the helm for the last two seasons?

      If we get a sharp-minded coach we could be able to squeeze lots of good offensive action from Melo and Amar’e. The real and only problem with Amar’e (really, with Amar’e's contract) is his health, that’s it. Amar’e is still a very competent player, and maybe, maybe, given a chance he could resign here for a portion of the MLE in 2015, if 2014-15 goes well. The guy seems very deep-thinking and probably would have some sort of gratitude to a New York City who endured a bad spell of luck without booing him and such. Honestly, I wouldn’t mind having Amar’e on board for another three years at 5mln/yr (long shot, I know. but not impossible).

    45. DRed

      Other problems with Amare-he plays horrible defense, he doesn’t rebound particularly well, and I’m not sure if he understands that passing the ball is legal.

    46. lavor postell

      @48

      Hahahaha yeah. I think he’s probably still a net positive when he’s scoring efficiently, but I don’t think he’s worth $5m/yr any longer. I also don’t think Phil particularly cares for his game. He has talked about lack of fundamentals prevalent through our team and STAT to me is somebody with really poor fundamentals when it comes to defense in terms of footwork and rotations and is a god awful rebounder because he literally never boxes out and tries to outjump people for rebounds.

    47. JK47

      Getting rid of players like Amar’e is an important part of the “culture change” that needs to happen with the Knicks. Nice guy and all, but he does not play a “team” game in any sense of the word. He’s a low-IQ player, and he is below average to terrible in every facet of the game except scoring. In other words, a typical Knick of the last 10+ years.

      The moral of the Amar’e story is that you should never, ever choose one-dimensional scorers as your franchise cornerstones.

    48. Hubert

      Jurgen is still an idiot for leaving Landon Donovan off the World Cup roster. Having said that I do like what he has done and is trying to do for soccer in this country. But it still boggles my mind why he left LD off the roster considering some of the guys who made the team.

      I think it would have been idiotic to select him.

      1. He’s not that good.
      2. We’re not getting out of that group with or without him.
      3. Giving WC experience to a young player who could be part of the system for a decade vs giving one last hurrah to an extremely self-absorbed “star” is a no-brainer in my book.
      4. He fucking quit. No one quits and gets to come back.

    49. Hubert

      I hope V. Stiviano decides to climb on board the “Fuck James Dolan” bandwagon.

      And that she brings along her tape recorder…

      Kudos.

    50. Hubert

      When sum1 tells you to take $30 mill less than the rules negotiated upon say your entitled to, for no other reason than good will, thats called giving up a shit ton of money.

      I did not realize that in the last CBA it was negotiated that Carmelo Anthony was entitled to be a max player. I think you may be wrong about that.

      In my mind, Melo signing for less than the supermax is no discount and I wish we could get the public discussion to change the wording on that. Instead of it being “can the Knicks get Melo to take a discount” it should be “can Melo get the Knicks to vastly overpay for his services…again.”

    51. bobneptune

      @ 51 partly wrote:

      “4. He fucking quit. No one quits and gets to come back.”

      Plz remember this then you fellas wax rhapsodic about former quitter coach Jeff Van Gundy.

    52. The Ghost of Ted Nelson

      Sigh…. Again with the absolute myth that Amare and Melo didn’t mesh offensively immediately after Melo joined the Knicks. Melo’s “crap” from 3 his first season with the Knicks was over 42%. Amare averaged over 24 points a game after the trade and shot over 50% from the field and the Knicks were one of the top offenses in the league after the trade. Defensively they were terrible but offense was clearly not their problem.

      The Knicks offense did improve after the Anthony trade, but there’s not much evidence that Anthony and Amar’e were “meshing”. The sample of Anthony and Amar’e playing together was small (24 games), and Amar’e did, in fact, get worse during those 24 games (his TS% dropped from .570 to .552). The reason the overall offensive efficiency improved is because Anthony and Billups hit a lot more 3 pointers than the Knicks were making pre-trade.

      I think the flaw in the chemical makeup of an Anthony+Amar’e tandem was on display in the playoffs that year. In game one Amar’e was fantastic (12-18, 28pts, 11 rebs) and Anthony was terrible (5-18, 4 rebs, 5 to) in a 2 point loss. The next game Amar’e was terrible (2-9, 4 pts) and Anthony was fantastic (42 pts, 17 rebs, 6 assists, 1 to) in a 3 point loss. The next game they were both terrible in a blowout loss. And in game 4 Amar’e went 5-20 while Anthony scored 32 in an eliminating 12 point loss.

      Amar’e and Anthony never really jived, even though the offensive efficiency was high during those few regular season games. And, ultimately, the results simply weren’t very good. They were easy to score on, and Billups largely ignored 7sol, opting for an iso-ball down the stretch, which wasn’t particularly effective, and the record reflected that.

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